00:00:00
Each individual piece is sick. >> The dynamic clock, dude, that like you can
00:00:06
>> Are all clocks dynamic? >> Yo, what is up people of the internet?
00:00:15
Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm
00:00:19
Marquez. >> I'm Andrew. >> And I'm David. >> We're actually renaming the podcast this
00:00:22
week to the Crash Out Podcast because we've realized that everything we're
00:00:25
talking about this week, someone is going to crash out about. We'll get there. Uh we have today we're talking
00:00:31
about TV ads. You might have seen some if you watched like a big bowl event or something recently. Uh we got chatbt
00:00:37
ads. We've got car ads teasers. We've also got our friend Shen on to explain
00:00:41
batteries a little bit better. And we're going to wrap out with just Andrew crashing out.
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>> Just that's it. >> Just just crashing out. It's going to be
00:00:47
great. >> Uh but first, make sure you subscribe. Make sure you follow on whatever podcast
00:00:52
player you use. We're aware that many of you use Apple Podcasts or Spotify, but
00:00:57
there are others. I use podcast on Android and there are even others yet others that if you're using them you
00:01:02
should rate our podcast on because that helps us out a lot. So we appreciate that.
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>> Yeah. >> Okay. It says here first thing is weather apps. And usually I crash out
00:01:11
about that. But >> if you don't mind this is not crashing out. Okay. >> I'm just going to really fast. Nice
00:01:15
shout out. >> Do you remember like two weeks ago we were talking about weather apps and I
00:01:19
said the Google one is like literally the worst and wrong all the time. >> But that does have the frog and I do
00:01:23
like the frog. >> What's the frog? >> Wait, it does not have the frog anymore.
00:01:26
the little corner animated frog. I think that's if you Google the weather. >> What?
00:01:30
>> Not like in >> Oh, I think you're right. >> In the Google weather app, though.
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>> I don't think it was. Well, or maybe. >> Well, I don't know.
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>> RIP Frog. >> Lots of people tons of great suggestions. >> Here's the two I landed on, and I'll let
00:01:40
you guys check them out. One is called >> What? It just says weather. I think it's
00:01:45
called Breezy, right, Adam? >> Breezy. You have to download it on Froid, which is something that I've
00:01:51
learned about. >> Wait, this is not on the Play Store? >> No. No, you have to download Froid from
00:01:55
the Play Store and then in Froid, search for Breezy. >> I'll let you look at this.
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>> That looks nice. >> Solid UI. You know, it it does have kind of the
00:02:03
>> looks like the Google weather >> the Google weather app on the bottom,
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but I I believe you can change >> source >> source. That's nice.
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>> I'm not 100% sure about, but it does tell me where the source is coming from
00:02:13
at the bottom. One that you can change the source is actually an email we got from somebody who I believe is 14 years
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old and created this app that is on the play store and I think the app store. >> Mhm.
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>> What am I doing with my life? >> Overcast. >> This is >> No, it is Overcast. It's called
00:02:36
>> It's called Over Morrow. >> Got it. I've been using Overro,
00:02:39
>> which looks great. It's super simple. It's like material u based like in terms
00:02:45
of the uh the design and everything but it looks great. It's been working well.
00:02:49
I have multiple different sources right at the bottom that I can pull from. Um the only thing is if you are in the US
00:02:56
and go to it just remember >> it's in Celsius and it's just been so
00:03:00
cold here. It took me like 3 days before I No, no, no. You can switch to Fahrenheit but it defaults to Celsius.
00:03:05
But it's been so cold here. Seeing single-digit numbers to me was like >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. That's right. >> Yeah. Three. That's all right. It's been
00:03:11
three cuz it was zero the other night. Yeah. For for everyone else in the world, that is -17.8.
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>> It's 40° F right now and it feels like I could wear shorts outside because I'm so
00:03:24
>> beautiful outside. That's how cooked we've been. >> 3° was a normal.
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>> It's literally freezing and I'm like, "Yes, nice." Yeah.
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>> Thank you for all the weather suggestions. Now I just need the weather to not suck so I can look at the apps
00:03:38
more happily. >> It's getting better. Groundhog, Paxatani, Phil, which we didn't talk
00:03:41
about last week and everyone was mad because we're the New Jersey podcast. >> Oh, it didn't really matter to us.
00:03:47
>> I thought he was Pennsylvania. >> He's in Pennsylvania. >> He did shout out six more weeks of
00:03:50
winter for those who are wondering. >> But he lied about that though. >> Yeah, that line freaking
00:03:55
>> Yeah. >> Uh, >> what you mean? >> Cuz it instantly is got warmer.
00:03:59
>> Yeah, but that's winter weather. >> Nah, man. Compared to what we had.
00:04:03
>> If it was spring, you'd be like, it's still only 40. >> Yeah.
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>> I don't know, man. >> But it isn't spring. I'm early February.
00:04:10
>> That's what I'm saying. You would either say like it's about to be spring or we
00:04:12
got six more weeks of winter, then it's spring. >> Though this was spring and it was 39,
00:04:16
we'd be a little >> Though Ellis and I will both take every opportunity to remind people that we are
00:04:21
from California. >> Uh we have finally been accustomed to this kind of weather.
00:04:27
>> Yeah. >> And now that zero is the norm, >> 40 feels pretty damn good.
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>> I'm feeling good about it. I took my gloves off this morning like on my walk
00:04:37
and I was like >> I was in a PG podcast. Let's calm down. >> I was in a t-shirt this morning. I went
00:04:42
to my outdoor building, went inside the building, got a coffee and everyone's
00:04:46
like, "You're in a t-shirt. Are you getting an ice drink, too?" And I was
00:04:49
like, "Yeah, I will." Nice. We love talking about the weather. >> You know what's related to the weather?
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>> No, we can do we can we can do better than that. >> Oh. Um, you know, a lot of weather apps
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make you pay extra for premium features. That's what I was just about to do.
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>> You know what else does? >> Pretty much everything. >> Every single thing in your life.
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>> But the headline we have to react to is that YouTube music now requires premium
00:05:14
for lyrics. >> Yeah. >> I don't care. But do you guys care about lyrics in
00:05:26
your music? >> It's about the principle. >> I So, okay. I did a poll about this on
00:05:31
uh on social media because I was curious because I was like >> I don't really care and when I look up
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lyrics I usually just Google them. >> Google them. >> Yeah. But apparently a lot of people use
00:05:42
lyrics in the app. I have many friends who when we are driving >> listening to music they will grab my
00:05:47
phone and look at the lyrics in the app on the phone. >> It is uh popular for people. So, okay,
00:05:52
here are the results of of my poll. And I said, "Is this a lucrative are lyrics
00:05:57
a lucrative feature for you and something that you would pay for in a music app?" Out of 691 votes, 71 people
00:06:04
said they would not pay for it. But 18.8 said that they would pay for it specifically just for lyrics.
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>> Mhm. >> And 19.6 said that they would pay at the right price. >> Just to clarify, you're talking about
00:06:15
percentages, not people. >> Sorry, percent. >> 19.6 people. >> Yeah. Oh, sorry.
00:06:19
>> It says 9.6. Um, yeah. 9.6. Did I say 19? >> Yes. >> Yeah. 18.8% said yes. 9.6 said yes at
00:06:28
the right price. >> Honestly, 28% of people being willing to pay for lyrics in their music app was
00:06:34
more than I thought it would. >> Way more than I expected. >> I'm holstering so many panels jokes
00:06:38
about being free on Google. Uh, okay. I mean, sometimes I open Spotify and I scroll down and I see the lyrics and I'm
00:06:44
like, "Oh, that's what he was saying." I'm like, "Oh, cool." But I guess I'm
00:06:47
not someone who looks up lyrics that much. But when I do, my instinct is to Google it. Yeah. So, I guess it might be
00:06:53
because we're old though. Oh, interesting. >> I mean, we've been doing it for a long
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time. I kind of like just pretending like I know what the lyrics are and mumbling through.
00:07:00
>> I just You say Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg. >> I don't know. >> That's the worst, right? That's probably
00:07:08
the worst. >> I'm even second guessing my mumbling, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I also just like fake it
00:07:12
till I make it and then eventually I get annoyed enough that I look them up. >> That's fair. And then I'm usually
00:07:17
disappointed because they're not as good as I envisioned they'd be. >> Yeah. Most of the music I listen to, I'm
00:07:21
not like listening to the words specifically. Usually it's the beat and then the lyrics or words like happen to
00:07:28
sound nice, but I'm not like really >> I'm a lyrics guy. >> I have kind of a funny story about that.
00:07:33
It'll be really quick. Do you know the song Wonderful by >> I'm going to go out on a limb and say
00:07:38
haven't heard of Everclear. >> Okay. There's a song called Wonderful by
00:07:41
Everclear and the chorus just like everything is wonderful now but the whole song is really sad and him like
00:07:46
trying to convince himself and I used to listen to it all the time cuz I thought
00:07:50
it was >> I'm just listening. My mom took my car once and came out and she's like are you
00:07:54
okay Andrew? Like that song was like blasting in your car. Lyrics are pretty dark. Everything going good? I was like
00:08:01
yeah I love Yeah. >> There's a word for when the music feels happy but the lyrics are really
00:08:06
depressing. >> That's this song. >> Yeah. Yeah. It opens with I close my
00:08:10
eyes when it gets too sad. I think thoughts that I know are bad and somehow none of that comprehended and my I'm
00:08:16
just snapping to it. >> That's like all Salsa songs. They're all about like really dark things and then
00:08:22
the band just makes you dance. >> The the story around this is that Google
00:08:25
is making lyrics a premium feature where you have to pay for YouTube premium. They're really, well, you have to pay
00:08:30
for goo YouTube music premium, but they're really trying to get people. They're really just trying to onboard
00:08:35
people to YouTube Premium because YouTube Premium is barely more expensive than the YouTube Music uh subscription.
00:08:41
Anyway, users who don't pay will get five free lyrics before they're asked to
00:08:47
subscribe. And it's not like per month, >> songs, >> words, song,
00:08:53
five words. >> Can I get the second word? >> Oh, nice. >> I wish you would step.
00:08:57
>> I'd like to buy a vow. Yeah. So, they will get five free lyrics and then it'll be like lyrics are
00:09:03
premium and it's not per month. It is it is at all. >> Oh, >> yeah.
00:09:07
>> Not to side with YouTube here, but if in a month you are looking up the lyrics
00:09:12
more than five times, it's probably worth paying for the lyrics. That's >> I just can't imagine. I have not looked
00:09:18
up lyrics times. >> I guess there's more of the like passive discovery of the lyrics because if I
00:09:22
ever want the lyrics, I can just look up a lyrics video on YouTube. But if I'm
00:09:26
I'm in the song and I just happen to scroll back and be like, "What did he
00:09:30
actually say?" And the lyrics are just right there. That's the convenience they
00:09:32
were paying for. >> But you know, Google made more money this quarter than they ever have. So I
00:09:37
don't think it's a good excuse. >> What if Spotify started doing this, but
00:09:41
like for hearing like like you paid for Spotify and you got all the like instrumentals of all the music, but then
00:09:48
if you wanted to hear the lyrics, you had to pay an extra fee on top. >> Damn. It's a card.
00:09:53
>> Don't give up any ideas. >> Exactly. That's what's next. I'm telling
00:09:56
you. >> Well, then everything would just it would just be a karaoke app for the free
00:09:59
users. >> Well, now you have to pay for the lyrics, though, which makes it way
00:10:02
harder. >> No, no, no. It'd be a karaoke. Oh my god. >> That's the only reason I assume people
00:10:08
want lyrics is cuz they want to karaoke with the phone in their hand >> or they just want to know the music.
00:10:13
>> I like the spot on Spotify. I just >> I like the lyrics cuz I sometimes like
00:10:17
to jump to specific points in a song and I like being able to know like, >> oh, if I click this word, it'll take me
00:10:24
to >> like as a transport feature. >> Take me out. >> It's kind of nice.
00:10:28
>> Interesting. >> The segue I was thinking of was like that's why a lot of weather apps are
00:10:30
paid is because the data you have to pay for. >> So, a lot of people want like a free
00:10:36
weather app obviously, but if you have a bunch of sources and a lot of them are paid, you you need to charge like a
00:10:41
subscription to pay the subscription. >> Yeah. But anyway, that's just weather
00:10:45
again. >> Sorry. >> So anyway, I don't I I was surprised by these results. I really just didn't I
00:10:51
didn't think this many people would be willing to pay for lyrics, but apparently they are. So
00:10:56
>> um you know, Google's going to make even more money, I guess. Speaking of Google,
00:11:01
>> speaking of YouTube, >> YouTube speaking of YouTube getting put on everybody's iPods. There's now
00:11:08
officially a YouTube app for Apple Vision Pro. Wasn't there at launch, but at
00:11:18
>> there are dozens of them. >> Honestly, Brave. >> Yeah, it was great.
00:11:23
>> It's crazy because you had to It almost felt like they were withholding it on
00:11:25
purpose. Like you had to go to the browser, >> which wasn't the end of the world. You
00:11:29
just have a browser tab open, but you had to go to the browser to watch YouTube videos and you have to deal with
00:11:33
all the stuff there. If you don't have premium, blah blah blah. Now you just
00:11:35
have an app. All the discovery, all the doom scrolling native. >> Well, didn't Apple also make some
00:11:40
workarounds like in the Safari app version pro, they would make >> full screen video.
00:11:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> They would make it so it basically just felt like YouTube.
00:11:47
>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But now it's >> Yeah. You can have environments, you can
00:11:50
have all the other fun stuff just just YouTube. >> Rip to Christian Juno. Was it called
00:11:56
Juno? >> Juno. Yeah, they killed it. Knocked that out a while. >> Um if it was not called Juno, I
00:12:01
apologize, Christian. Well, that's exciting for the 12 people that use Vision Pro. And speaking of I guess
00:12:09
we're done with that pretty quick segment. >> I guess we should we'll try it and we'll
00:12:14
get back to you. >> I don't know. Yeah, I mean >> I we definitely will not try it by next
00:12:18
time. >> Maybe it's amazing. >> Try it. I'll watch it. >> Maybe it's amazing. You know what? If
00:12:22
it's amazing, >> it's just I'll try it. >> I I don't Okay,
00:12:26
>> what if >> what could they possibly have added that will make it >> uses Gemini? If the Vision Pro is the
00:12:32
ideal flight movie watcher, then the YouTube app Vision Pro with premium with a bunch of downloaded videos is the
00:12:39
ultimate >> flight theater experience. >> I have always wanted to watch Scott the
00:12:44
W 30 ft tall. Okay, let me have this. >> Okay, >> there's good videos on YouTube. You
00:12:49
might want to watch it. You might have an hour and a half video on a studio channel and you want to watch it on a
00:12:53
flight and you have this big screen in front of you and it's fun. It'd be very
00:12:56
funny if you know how Google last week they released that world model where you can feed in an image and it creates a
00:13:02
video game basically that you can project. >> Project Genie be very funny if they just
00:13:06
had the feature in YouTube where you could just be in the video but nobody used the app because nobody uses the
00:13:12
Vision Pro so nobody knew. >> Damn, >> that'd be funny. >> I guess we'll find out what interesting
00:13:17
features it has. >> I guess we'll find out. It's probably fine. >> Yeah. Anyway,
00:13:22
>> we're gonna find out about >> um the ads and chat GBT. >> The ads and chat GPT.
00:13:28
>> Okay, so Anthropic, if you didn't know, uh big competitor to OpenAI, recently
00:13:34
released a bunch of Super Bowl ads. They released them before the Super Bowl, and
00:13:38
they actually did tweak them slightly when they actually put them in the Super Bowl. The copy was worse in the official
00:13:44
uh release, but I think that they probably just, I don't know, ran through their legal team and they were just
00:13:48
concerned or something. Anyway, they ran four different ads. It was very funny. The ads were about OpenAI putting ads in
00:13:56
chat GPT. And this is something that OpenAI uh is now having to do. Sam Alman did eventually say it would be a last
00:14:04
resort. So that's also funny. Uh but Anthropic put these four different ads out that basically emulated what it is
00:14:13
like to talk to an AI model and it did it very well. So I'm going to give you
00:14:18
an example. There was this ad where this guy is talking to a therapist and he says, "I need help learning how to
00:14:25
communicate better with my mom and then the therapist is just kind of like this creepy smiling like woman." And she
00:14:31
pauses for like 3 seconds before she answers him. It's it's all very like you
00:14:34
can tell that they're trying to emulate that >> and she uh she says like, "That's a
00:14:39
great thing to do. You should maybe go on a nature walk with her or talk about things that you have in common. Or if
00:14:45
you can't mend the relationship, go to Golden Encounters where where cougars
00:14:50
are matched with young cubs. >> It's like where you can spend quality time with other older women
00:14:55
>> with other older women on Golden Encounters. And uh all of the ads just
00:15:00
kind of devolve into this and then the person that's talking to that model is
00:15:03
like, "What?" Uh very funny, very good ads. This elicited a extremely funny
00:15:10
reaction from Sam Sam Alman on Twitter. Uh he decided to write an essay in a tweet which is never a good idea. Um but
00:15:18
the first thing that he said was first the good part of the anthropic ads they are funny. I laughed. Very human thing
00:15:25
to say. >> Nice. >> And then he wrote 11 paragraphs. >> Dude wrote wrote is like an
00:15:34
overstatement for like like this is poop. You don't write poop, you poop poop. And that's what he did. He pooped
00:15:40
11 paragraphs of poop. >> Do you think he did? Ch did it. >> That's what I was gonna say. I assume
00:15:46
everything he writes. >> I had not seen these ads. Actually, I think you posted it and your main thing
00:15:51
was why does this seems like it didn't get desqueezed properly for one of them,
00:15:55
the one online before the Super Bowl. The only reason I watched these ads is because I saw Sam Alman crashing out on
00:16:01
Twitter and I was like, "These must be pretty good." >> They did. Yeah. The first ad there was
00:16:05
there was one ad where a a kid was trying to get jacked and whatever. >> Like how do I get abs as fast as
00:16:09
possible? >> Yeah. And for I just noticed like it seemed like they used like a 1.5x
00:16:13
anamorphic lens, but they desqueezed it to like 1.8. >> Oh no. >> That's all I That was the first thing I
00:16:18
Sorry. That's the first thing I >> That would bother me a lot. >> Yeah, it was it was weird.
00:16:22
>> Anyway, um yeah, he crashed out with like 11 paragraphs saying basically it
00:16:27
was not what was going to happen and that it was uh what was the word? He was saying that it was kind of
00:16:34
misrepresenting the way the ads were going to be shown, but Ellis is about to uh is about to chime in.
00:16:42
>> Can I say one thing real quick? >> Yeah. Say >> I miss I like when companies use
00:16:46
commercials to take shots at each other. >> It's so much more fun. I liked the like
00:16:51
the Samsung notch forehead like stuff like that. >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:16:57
>> It's fun. And it's it's fun because they're in Jest, but man, it makes some
00:17:01
people so mad and that's hilarious. >> Yeah, it's funny. Anthropic typically
00:17:06
does have really good ads, too. Like they've been leaning into like the film
00:17:10
look and the film aesthetic and everything like a little grain and everything like it looks like they hire
00:17:14
people that knew what they were doing for >> I mean every company on Twitter now
00:17:19
basically is just making commercials. Yeah, >> that's like their whole thing. They have
00:17:23
shifted away from just releasing products and now everything has to be a little like movie trailer product
00:17:29
launch. >> Yeah. >> I think also doing the film look feels more natural and human and when you're
00:17:35
doing creating a product that's as unnatural and unhuman as as AI, you want to be as opposed.
00:17:47
>> It's AI >> damp. I don't know if AI would mess up the the 1.5x anamorphic squeeze.
00:17:55
>> I think that's exactly what it would mess up. >> Yeah, that's probably true.
00:17:57
>> That's probably true. >> All right, Ellis, I'm ready for your
00:17:59
crash. >> Before I crash out publicly about this, I do want to say >> um longtime listeners of the show will
00:18:06
know we have in the past done anthropic ads. We we have read ads that they have done. This has nothing to do with why
00:18:13
we're reporting on this. Also, in case anyone was even wondering, none of us
00:18:17
have any AI investments, okay? We're not invested in these private companies.
00:18:21
>> Use that at all. >> Yeah. So, this is not like about this is about
00:18:26
>> Oh my god, dude. That stupid 11 Okay, first of all, first of all, when Sam
00:18:30
Alman in that 11 paragraphs greed said, God, there was so much when he called Claude an author or Enthropic an
00:18:38
authoritarian company, >> I was like, brother, like, you need to look at like who's on the OpenAI team
00:18:44
right now. Okay. >> Anthropic makes software for rich people when they're the same price. They're the
00:18:49
same price. Expensive software for rich people when they're the same. It's like
00:18:52
do you both offer a free tier? The difference in the pricing is that and maybe like when you're using it at a
00:18:58
developer level, the the tokens are like cheaper >> or whatever, but it's like you both
00:19:02
offer a free and a $20 tier. So don't don't go calling your competitor an
00:19:07
expensive product for rich people. Don't go calling a company an authoritarian
00:19:10
company when like all of the technofascists are aligned with you, bro. Okay, >> dude. And then it's like he keeps going
00:19:18
on and on about how like, you know, these ads are not going to appear in chat. They're not going to like like
00:19:23
companies are not going to have access to your chat, like all this stuff. >> The truth is we don't know how these ads
00:19:29
are going to appear. >> They started rolling out yesterday, by the way. >> I haven't seen them. I haven't seen any.
00:19:33
I keep looking for people reporting on how they're rolling out. I can't find
00:19:35
them. >> I can provide to you >> the press releases of the companies who
00:19:41
are buying these ads. Okay. Target, >> this is an exact quote. I'm just going
00:19:45
to read you the whole thing so that you can't be like, "Ellis, you're you're
00:19:48
picking and choosing your words, man. You're you're an anti- AAI lite." But
00:19:51
quote from Target, ads are served based on keywords in a guest's chat GPT prompt, ensuring they're relevant to the
00:19:58
conversation. For example, a guest asking, "What are some countertop cooking appliances that make everyday
00:20:04
meals more convenient may see an ad for an air fryer?" Here's one from William
00:20:08
Sonoma. As an early participant, William Sonoma, Inc. will explore how advertising in chat GPT can reach
00:20:15
customers at the decision-making moments, helping surface relevant, high-quality products while preserving
00:20:20
trusted and transparent user experiences. >> I don't want to be devil's advocate cuz I
00:20:27
>> You are a devil's advocate. They're like your favorite team. >> They are. That's true.
00:20:31
>> I hate them. I hate them this season. By the way, go USA Hockey. We destroyed
00:20:36
Canada Women's the other day. >> Are they in that new TV show about hockey?
00:20:40
>> Yeah, it's called the Olympics. Uh >> um >> I was saying that other one
00:20:46
>> I don't >> in terms of the way these are written >> it does none of this is saying that it
00:20:54
will affect the responses it's saying that it will show an ad that's potentially based on the responses.
00:21:00
>> Sure. But also I'm just throwing that out there in his thing. He like in the
00:21:04
past OpenAI and Tim Alman have said when we run these ads these companies will not have access to your chat.
00:21:09
>> And the companies are saying >> we're not only going to know what you
00:21:13
want. We're going to know when you're in the decision-m process. >> That's not exactly what it says. And I
00:21:19
think there's a firewall between So that's the the specific verbiage is the
00:21:23
companies don't get that data. They get to buy access to the people who are searching certain ways. They don't get
00:21:30
to know what you're searching. ChatBT, OpenAI, they know all the stuff, right?
00:21:34
>> But similar to the way you would buy Google Adwords, you'd buy ads for people
00:21:38
who are googling certain things. Those ads will show up for those people. I never get to connect to those people
00:21:43
directly or know who searched what. The same way Target's going to pay Chat GPT
00:21:47
or OpenAI for a bunch of ads for whatever air fryers, whatever their products are, and anytime those get
00:21:53
served, that connection will be made. I don't know any of that is targeted. I
00:21:58
don't I could be wrong, but I don't believe that's how Google AdSense works.
00:22:01
I think there's a profile based on your credit cards and your IP address and all
00:22:05
the other profiles that or data points that data brokers pick up on you and they know exactly what you Marquez
00:22:11
Brownley have been searching for and buying and are interested in. >> That may be fair, but I don't see that
00:22:17
language in either of these uh responses from we're going to use chat GPT ads,
00:22:22
>> which is like let's also just be real. this is total legal ease and we don't
00:22:27
know like what they actually want to do on the background of anything and I don't trust them
00:22:31
>> and yeah and furthermore the guy who is trying to convince us of all this is
00:22:36
like and this takes a lot of skill man because between like Elon Musk and Mark Andre like we have some prolific liars
00:22:45
among us these days like people who can just again poop out non-truths and Sam Alman is somehow the biggest liar of all
00:22:55
of them. Like the list of lies that this guy has told over the course of his career are so huge and so crazy. And he
00:23:03
still is just like, "Bro, just give me like all of the power in America, all
00:23:07
the water in America. Give me literally all of your most inside thoughts and feelings and I'll just like fix
00:23:12
everything, bro, because I'm Sam [ __ ] Alman. Go get another job." I don't know. I don't want this
00:23:18
guy doing this job. And I get that like I don't have like a say in that or whatever, but the guy whose job is to
00:23:24
like take everything from everyone, I would like to be a truthful guy. >> That's my crash out. Okay, I'm sorry.
00:23:32
>> It's also just funny to me that every tech CEO decided that they have to have
00:23:36
a personality on Twitter. >> Like I mean Elon kind of started this. >> CEOs used to be pretty quiet. They would
00:23:44
maybe >> I'm sure there's a lot that don't say anything on Twitter. Yeah, but I like
00:23:49
them a lot of I don't get like corporate statements from Sundar ever. He never
00:23:53
says anything. >> He sometimes does say stuff. I mean, it's not like it's not like this.
00:23:58
>> It's not like this. >> But pretty much every AI company CEO has
00:24:03
like a very loud voice on Twitter and is very annoying and just like says >> probably because that's where all of
00:24:10
their customers are. like as far as how competitive this environment is and how much of a connection you want to have to
00:24:15
your potential customers, how else are you going to talk to them? It's kind of
00:24:18
like when how YouTube had that sort of >> what is it called? Uh ad apocalypse
00:24:22
where it's like all the YouTube all the advertisers left YouTube and they realized that the only way to reach
00:24:27
these people is to be advertising on YouTube. If you're an AI company CEO, how are you going to reach the most
00:24:33
aggressively enthusiastic AI people on the internet? probably by tweeting a lot at them and having them read what you're
00:24:40
saying and not, you know, looking at the other things other people are saying. So, I get why they're so loud on
00:24:44
Twitter, but if you're annoyed by that, I don't think it's going to make noise.
00:24:49
Keep trying to reach those people. >> Yeah. I mean, this kind of reaction though is very funny cuz I mean, they
00:24:54
just went they went and said like, "We have more users in Texas than you have
00:24:58
users total." >> And it's kind of like I think the best thing to say was nothing. Um, or you
00:25:06
could have just said that was funny and moved on. >> Yeah. >> Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna dub this the
00:25:11
Stry Sam effect >> because Yeah, he uh >> I was wondering why he typed it like
00:25:15
that. I totally >> missed that. >> Yeah, because he he just kind of like
00:25:20
drew more attention to the fact that he was crashing out about it and then there
00:25:23
were multiple articles written out about how he was crashing out. >> If I made a joke about one of you guys
00:25:27
and you tweeted that long about it, be like, "Damn, I got him." Like that's
00:25:31
>> yesterday Andrew said something about me that was clearly dishonest. >> Anthropic is so happy right now that
00:25:37
this guy is freaking out. >> The amount of people that didn't even know anthropic's name that knew chat GPT
00:25:41
and then saw a bunch of Google like Google words articles on the side of their home feed being like Sam Alman
00:25:48
crashes out of anthropic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's it's a I mean the amount of
00:25:52
marketing spend that they put into this was more than free the Super Bowl. Yeah.
00:25:56
>> Free real estate. >> Free real estate. I will say Twitter Twitter is a very specific audience and
00:26:00
a lot of them are the like silences complicit type. So if Sam Alman didn't say anything about those ads, it would
00:26:06
also be really it would be fodder for them to be like see they got him. So no matter what you do, you lose. But he
00:26:13
chose this path. So that's his choice, >> I guess. So >> um >> screw you Ellis for making it seem like
00:26:20
I was kind of defending it. I promise that's not how I >> know. I know. I know. I know. Andrew
00:26:26
loves open air. >> It's It just feels to me like the entire premise of this company
00:26:32
is like dog water. Like seriously, like like what? Like you've made a trillion
00:26:37
dollars in spending commitments and you're and you you genuinely are like, "No, no, no. In the next like 10 years,
00:26:43
we're going to 100x our revenue despite the fact that we like won't tell anyone
00:26:47
how we make any money right now. Despite like despite the fact that we literally
00:26:50
do not have enough electricity in the world >> to do what we're gonna do.
00:26:54
>> It's all the trust me bro economy. >> It's like >> yeah data centers in space.
00:27:00
>> Oh. Oh yeah. Data centers in space. That's killer. >> Have you noticed Jensen Wong just like
00:27:05
doing all these interviews on the streets of Taiwan. >> Yeah. >> I don't know why that keeps happening.
00:27:09
>> I don't know why that keeps happening either. >> People he's just like walking down the
00:27:12
street in Taiwan and someone and then suddenly there's eight mics in his face
00:27:16
doing a press conference. >> That's what happens. And if you don't
00:27:18
say no to it, it's going to keep happening. It's like that. >> Why does he keep saying yes to it?
00:27:22
>> Well, it's not even saying yes to it. It's someone sprints up to you with a
00:27:25
microphone and asks you a critical question about your company and no matter what you say, it will be
00:27:30
published. So, do you a ignore them and get in the car to which it looks like, oo, he's avoiding it. He knows the
00:27:35
answer's bad. Or B, do you like try to answer because you think you have a good
00:27:39
answer and then suddenly seven more people with microphones? >> I think you cannot win. You cannot win.
00:27:44
if I had that much of people are going to sprint up to you like my life savings are in this tell me why you're going to
00:27:50
win like okay >> well it is funny though because he has been slowly walking back their
00:27:54
commitments to open AI like at first it was like Nvidia is investing hundred billion dollars in open AI and then
00:28:02
throughout these on the street in Taiwan interviews it's been like >> we never actually signed a piece of
00:28:07
paper we just said that >> you know over a number of years we might invest up to hundred billion
00:28:13
>> money isn't real. I mean, the money in my bank account is real, of course, but
00:28:17
like your money isn't real. >> And then randomly, Oracle put out a tweet that was like, "We are committed
00:28:22
to our investments." And was like, "Nobody asked you." >> Yeah. Um, in other authoritative news,
00:28:28
>> Yeah. That's right. Uh, Ring company owned by Amazon. >> This was funny. Okay. There's a couple I
00:28:36
>> Was it funny? >> Yeah. Yeah. Can you explain everything because I did not watch the Super Bowl,
00:28:40
which you all will find out from my crash out later why I didn't, but >> Wow. Okay. Um, yes. I Some of these are
00:28:45
Super Bowl things I've kind of seen people talk about online, but I I would like the full explanation.
00:28:50
>> I only watch. >> As you can imagine, during the Super Bowl of 2026, people are all wondering
00:28:54
which companies are going to make a splash, make a big statement, are there going to be any crypto ads? Are there
00:28:58
going to be any AI ads? Like this CES is the same way. You're like, who's
00:29:02
going to have a what's the theme? >> Wait, the Super Bowl basically is CES.
00:29:06
>> CES. Yes. Exactly. >> That's crazy. >> Exactly. So 2026 Super Bowl ads. There's
00:29:11
a couple AI ads sprinkled in there and people are analyzing them. Oh, this is their big moment. Okay. So, each one of
00:29:17
these companies challenge is to speak to the normies who don't pay attention to
00:29:21
AI and paint a picture for them of why their AI is good. And it'll either hit
00:29:26
your ear as a normie or it'll hit your ear as a critic who's been looking at
00:29:29
this stuff for a long time. So, Amazon Ring decides, okay, we've got an idea.
00:29:35
We're going to show this really cool feature, this really cool thing that we've been doing where if you lose your
00:29:40
pet, then there's this neighborhood watch feature where you can go through everyone's feeds and it will recognize
00:29:47
all of the Ring neighborhoods in your in your neighborhood. Sorry, all the Ring cameras in your neighborhood. You'll be
00:29:52
able to find your pet through them and you'll get reunited with your pet. Isn't
00:29:54
that sick? >> A neighborhood watch feature from your Ring camera by on. Isn't that great?
00:30:01
>> It's on by default. This picture, you have to turn it off. And I think for
00:30:05
some people it probably hit their ears like, "Wow, I've lost a pet. Wow, I have
00:30:08
a pet. I hope I don't lose them, but if I do, this feature would really help."
00:30:11
But for all of us, we're like, "Wait, if you can watch the pets through this
00:30:15
feature, and by the way, they're working with Flock, which is the company that
00:30:19
makes those security comp cameras that are just placed everywhere and sold to government agencies and law
00:30:24
enforcement." >> And and we would know that. People aren't going to know that. If you can
00:30:28
watch pets, what else can you find through this? is the thing you like search for like you say I'm missing this
00:30:36
dog and then if it sees that dog you see it or you there's no way you can just
00:30:40
>> I'm going try to rewatch the ad because I don't it's not like I can comb through
00:30:44
my screen feed or whatever but the idea is all of them are connected through this sort of database that lets you find
00:30:51
it even though it's not on your camera >> which means that there are other ways
00:30:55
probably for other potentially authoritarian figures to pop in there and find things on people's own cameras
00:31:00
Or or like the big flock scandal that just happened recently where it turned out that none of them or not none of
00:31:05
them but a lot of them were not even password protected and you could just go and look at any camera in a like
00:31:10
>> Yeah. >> One funny part I heard about or not funny but it was like didn't they say
00:31:15
like 1 million dogs are lost a year and then it said like we found one dog every
00:31:21
day over the year and it's like the percentage on that is terrible. >> 365 million be rational. This is a
00:31:28
missing pet. This is a P. >> No, it's true. Listen, I'm all for 300
00:31:32
more dogs being found than something bad happening to them. But >> yeah, listen, this isn't about the dogs.
00:31:36
>> The ratios there are not the successor. >> To be clear, million dogs.
00:31:41
>> I forget what Ring said. >> That's crazy. One in 300 people in
00:31:45
America lose a dog a year. That can't be right. >> I I'll find >> Ring does deny that the search party
00:31:51
feature is even able to track human faces and biometrics. Um, and they say it is separate from the familiar faces
00:32:00
facial recognition feature that they have on their which is a madeup fact >> even that a PR person would say
00:32:07
>> that they don't have access to the facial recognition thing. They have to
00:32:10
know that people just don't trust this stuff. >> No, of course. >> Like Ring is the company that just like
00:32:14
gives this like has given this data to law enforcement before. >> I I think people do trust this stuff. I
00:32:20
think that's that's like like I know so many people with Ring cameras. >> No, I mean they trust that the company
00:32:27
is going to do what's in their best >> interest. No, I I think and when I talk
00:32:31
to people about the Ring cameras and I'm like like for example like my neighbors
00:32:34
had a Ring camera >> and I made me really uncomfortable because it was pointed right at my door
00:32:38
and I didn't like the idea that I was on camera every single time I was coming
00:32:42
and going for my apartment. And I talked to them about it and they were just sort
00:32:46
of like, "What do you think's going to happen?" Like, like the footage is just
00:32:51
it's just footage. And I was like, "Where do you think that footage goes?"
00:32:53
And they literally like, "I've never thought about it." I I really I don't
00:32:55
think the average person like really understands like >> I think it's maybe trust isn't the right
00:33:00
word because I think a lot of people in general know like most of these companies don't give a damn about me and
00:33:05
like they don't trust them but I think it's less of like the >> the
00:33:10
benefits for me are something that can make me not really think about the other things that could potentially
00:33:15
>> well and it's Amazon which makes these products as cheap as possible so that
00:33:19
people just like buy them and make a bunch of you know put them on their house because they're so ridiculously
00:33:25
cheap. >> I've got a bunch of cameras in my house. Mine's a little different cuz I'm not
00:33:27
pointing it directly at like someone else's door. >> Well, and I live in a New York City
00:33:31
apartment, right? So, it's like it it would be impossible to camera on your I
00:33:34
don't know. >> I don't >> Yeah. I just want to remind people like
00:33:37
this is this is Amazon. Same company that uh made the Melania movie which had a total budget of7 71 $75 million.
00:33:45
>> They didn't make it. They >> Well, they donated $35 million or
00:33:49
whatever it was. >> Yeah. $75 million budget. uh $40 million acquisition fee paid by Amazon to
00:33:55
Melania Trump's uh production company and then 28 million went directly to her
00:34:01
for licensing. >> I think that it's pretty obvious like where a lot of this money is going and I
00:34:07
just I would not trust a company that has security cameras all over the uh >> all over the country.
00:34:12
>> The security camera company just gave a giant donation to the >> Yeah. Anyway, I told you this Marquez
00:34:20
said this was the Crash Out podcast. Yeah, I watched I re just rewatched the ad. It's like
00:34:23
>> watch the Melania movie 25x speed right now. >> Wow. >> Nothing happened in my left ear.
00:34:33
>> No, I watched the ad. There's not there's not a lot of official UI.
00:34:36
There's just kind of like a a portal in the ring app to be like, here's the
00:34:39
pet's name, here's a picture, here's a description, and then the pet shows up
00:34:42
at their door. So, it's not like we know how this works at all, but I imagine
00:34:46
from the advertising perspective, they're like, look, it's a great feature. Doesn't matter how it works.
00:34:51
It's going to get you your pet back if you're ever losing your neighborhood.
00:34:54
And then if anyone asks any questions, we just deny, deny, deny. >> Can I throw something out there? Like
00:34:59
this >> happens if you're just in like the Facebook group for your town or like the
00:35:04
what's the website? Neighbor Next Door or something. There's so many things
00:35:08
like that. People just be like, "Hey, I lost my cat. Here's a picture of them."
00:35:11
And someone will post and they're like, "Oh, I looked on my sec." Like people
00:35:15
care about each other enough to just say like, "Hey, I saw them out there." or
00:35:19
like here's my security camera that saw what looks like your cat at blah blah
00:35:24
blah I'm over here. This happens without one company needing to own all of it.
00:35:29
>> Most of these technology products are just like don't talk to people just let
00:35:32
the technology do it for you. >> I saw I saw something amazing on Twitter which was a test to determine if a new
00:35:38
technology is good or bad. And the test and the test the test is if it would make the plot of a Seinfeld episode not
00:35:48
work at all. It's a good piece of tech. Like smartphones, Google maps like thing
00:35:54
like things that like would cause the central issue of a Seinfeld episode to like fall apart because the tech just
00:35:59
solves the problem. >> This fits. >> Yeah. >> This is a good feature.
00:36:03
>> Tech that would create the plot of a Seinfeld episode is bad tech. think like
00:36:08
Poly Market or like or Flaunt Cameras or like >> I would say that there could easily I've
00:36:15
never seen Seinfeld so I apologize. >> No, it's like the greatest show ever.
00:36:18
>> But I could imagine a show like that having an episode about losing their dog
00:36:21
and taking a whole episode to find it. Is that crazy? >> I feel like the Seinfeld episode would
00:36:25
be like that could totally work. Yeah. And then this just ruins that cuz you just Oh, is I got a notification is
00:36:30
Three Doors Down or whatever. >> Like the band >> the the cool thing about Sorry. Sorry.
00:36:35
>> The the the Okay, little rant. The best thing about Seinfeld is that there's
00:36:39
like three interlaced story lines that seem totally separate and then they randomly come in contact with each other
00:36:45
like through the episode and they just sort of >> The best thing about it is the sneakers
00:36:49
he wears on every episode. Straight heat. Jerry Seinfeld's on it. >> What are they?
00:36:54
>> Cuz he's a sneaker head. >> Wait, really? >> Yeah. >> Has he been on the the sneaker shopping
00:36:57
show? Does it take >> I actually don't know. Maybe someone is known for that.
00:37:02
>> Interesting. >> It might be. All right. >> It will be my introduction to Seinfeld.
00:37:04
I'll look up his sneaker shopping. >> Dude, that show is so good. You know
00:37:07
what else is going to scan your face, but this time be truthful about it. >> Yeah. One more surveillance state story
00:37:12
and then we're done. I promise. >> Going to scan your child's face.
00:37:17
>> Yeah. Uh Discord this week announced that they are going to be requiring face
00:37:23
scanning or uh ID uploading for people that they think are probably children. So they
00:37:31
>> So they are going >> What a way to phrase that. >> I they're going to be b Okay. Basically,
00:37:36
they're trying to agegate. They're trying to get kids off of the like not
00:37:40
safe for work Discord communities cuz there's >> that's the Yeah, it's it's this weird
00:37:45
back and forth thing where clearly there have been many many problems with like there are many bad things about the
00:37:52
internet that kids just have access to and that's sort of always been the case.
00:37:56
And so >> there are bad things that occur there obviously. And so there's sort of this
00:38:00
weird tension between like how do we stop kids from accessing that without creating a surveillance state.
00:38:06
>> I think the other thing is also >> people accessing kids >> that
00:38:10
>> like that in the same space is what's really bad. >> Yeah, for sure. Age gating
00:38:15
>> the Roblox effect. >> Yeah. Is like a a solution to this problem, but that is very difficult to
00:38:20
implement without getting accused of >> Yeah. this for sure. Yeah. Um, famously people that use Discord,
00:38:29
gamers, you know, people that are very online, not happy about having to scan their faces, which I'm not either. I
00:38:36
don't think I would never give. Anyway, here's what they say. Uh, they say that
00:38:40
for most adults, age verification won't be required as they're using account
00:38:43
information like the games that you play, when you're online, all of these uh random
00:38:49
>> account tenure, too. So, if you've had a Discord account for like 16 I don't know
00:38:52
how long, >> which I have. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're using a bunch of different metrics to
00:38:57
determine whether or not you're an they think you're an adult. And if they think
00:39:00
you're an adult, you won't have to do any of these things. If you if you have
00:39:03
your uh Discord hooked up to Steam and you play Roblox all the time, uh they probably are going to make you, you
00:39:10
know, >> jokes on you, David. I don't think Roblox is on Steam. >> Oh, damn.
00:39:13
>> I don't know, though. >> It might be. I don't know. >> Is Minecraft like the most popular game
00:39:17
on Steam? It's going to be a lot of people getting >> I don't think Minecraft is on Steam
00:39:20
either. >> It's not. Oh, >> it's on the Windows Store. What is on
00:39:23
Steam? >> Everything else. >> Everything else. Literally every other
00:39:26
game you didn't just mention. >> Fortnite is not on Steam. >> Fortnite on Steam.
00:39:30
>> I'm trying guys. >> If the game I feel like if the game is big enough to have like its own
00:39:34
following where it doesn't need to be on Steam, then it's not on Steam. >> Unless it's every other game.
00:39:39
>> Unless it's owned by Valve like Counterstrike and Dota. Yeah, >> got it.
00:39:43
>> Um, just got to mention Dota 2 again. So anyway, Marquez, users who are not
00:39:50
verified as adults will not have access to age restricted servers channels and they won't be able to speak in Discord
00:39:56
stages. They will see content filters from friend requests and DMs from unknown sources will be filtered into
00:40:01
another inbox. Discord says that the face scan uses an ondevice AI model to analyze and predict your age and never
00:40:08
leaves the device. So that is something if that is true. I think that we need like security experts to like actually
00:40:15
try that out and dig into that. >> Mhm. >> Um there was a lot of backlash to this
00:40:20
and so teamspeak uh if you know that word you're you will not get age verified on Discord.
00:40:26
>> Yeah. If >> if you don't know that word you probably will. >> I was saying what's the meme of like if
00:40:31
you if you recognize Ricky Martin at the halftime show like it's probably time to
00:40:35
get your prostate checks. Like if you know team speak >> that was Ricky Martin.
00:40:41
Oh my god, that was Ricky Mart. I just Wow. >> You're good, young. >> Yeah.
00:40:46
>> Wow. So legit. >> Teamspeak is like one of the OG voice chat gaming apps. I used to use it when
00:40:53
we played Starcraft in high school. Um and it's basically not been updated in
00:40:58
the last like 15 years, which looks way different. >> Kind of sick. I mean, the website Yeah.
00:41:02
Yeah. It it looks a little bit more like Discord. The problem with Discord now is
00:41:06
that it's trying to become the everything app. Every app, including Netflix, every app is trying to become
00:41:11
the everything app because in order to scale infinitely, you have to just adopt every possible market.
00:41:16
>> Yeah. >> That's why Netflix is becoming a podcast app and a games app now because they
00:41:21
kind of saturated the the the watching content app. >> They're going to drop the flicks.
00:41:26
>> Yeah. There's just going to be net. >> It's going to be the internet.
00:41:28
>> Welcome to Net. >> So, yeah, people are very angry about this. Um, Discord knew that people were
00:41:33
going to be very angry and they anticipated to lose some users and say that they are going to have to uh use
00:41:40
other tactics to get users to come back. Whether or not this ends up being a mass
00:41:44
exodus and people actually move over permanently or just flow back, which is what usually happens um with the social
00:41:50
graph effects, not sure. >> So, >> can I just This is I just think funny. It doesn't take away
00:41:58
from any of the uh worries people has in here, but there's something so funny
00:42:03
about Discord being for gamers and them not wanting their face, but then they'll
00:42:07
go start a new character in a game and spend like six hours making it look exactly like them.
00:42:12
>> That is that is very funny. >> Damn. >> Yeah, >> there's there's going to be a really sad
00:42:17
future where we look back on this era and be like, damn, like Discord and like Sam Alman with Worldcoin, like they were
00:42:23
so nice. It's like they let us scan our own faces instead of just like walking
00:42:27
into BaskinRobins and getting our face scanned without our consent for our ice cream ID. Like
00:42:33
>> all the flock cameras are already they already know where you are at all times
00:42:36
anyway. >> Anyway, um I did see a very funny thing. Do you guys know what Gary's Mod is?
00:42:40
This is another This is another one of those things where if you do know what that is, you won't have to do the thing.
00:42:46
Uh, but I saw some people who were using Gary's Mod characters to fool the face
00:42:52
scanning technology and it actually depth. That's crazy. >> Well, it does. And that's the thing cuz
00:42:56
they were like they were like streaming the screen. I mean, death and depth in terms of like the character looks
00:43:03
three-dimensional and it was turning. >> Yeah, cuz it's not using like an IR
00:43:06
sensor on your regular webcam. >> Cameras are all 2D, you They just like >> Yeah, but like I Well, I didn't real I
00:43:12
thought when I was doing I don't remember what I was doing a phase verification for, but I had to scan my
00:43:16
ID and then do the thing where I look left and right. And I think that's using
00:43:20
the iPhone's Well, maybe it does. >> The iPhone's IR, right? It might be
00:43:23
iPhone's IR, but it might also not be, but Discord is >> presumably probably using it from a
00:43:28
webcam. Or I guess there is a mobile app, so maybe it could probably force you to use your phone's
00:43:35
>> why I figured they would have to use real depth instead of just a >> image that rotates.
00:43:40
>> Well, they can't really. I mean, the iPhone, there's some phones that have
00:43:44
IR. Yeah. Look, there's there's also a non-zero chance that this face scanning
00:43:49
stuff literally does nothing and Discord just needed to do something to like make
00:43:54
themselves not legally accountable for like exposing minors to I'm not saying
00:43:58
it does, but like we're at the point now where like who's to say everyone isn't
00:44:03
lying all the time. >> Mhm. >> I've been lying this whole podcast.
00:44:07
>> Yeah. I'm not even >> audio listeners will be shocked to find
00:44:12
out I am like a 7 foot lizard sitting at the mic and have been this whole time. >> I'm 12.
00:44:17
>> But you know what demands truth and nothing but the truth? >> What is that?
00:44:21
>> Waveform trivia. >> That's facts. Well, good thing we all get the truth wrong.
00:44:24
>> I was going to say when the correction comes next week, that segue's going to
00:44:28
hit. >> Oh yeah, baby. >> No, I think >> our scores. >> Yeah. No, that is
00:44:35
>> Look, man, I strive for perfection. >> I know it's been a weird episode, but
00:44:39
>> it's only going to get weirder, baby. >> It's only going to get weirder. It's
00:44:42
only February. >> Guys, you want to guess what this trivia question is about?
00:44:47
>> Sam Alman, baby. Sam Alman has said in the past, specifically on his blog and
00:44:52
several interviews, that with 10 gawatt of compute, we would most likely have to
00:44:57
choose between curing cancer or tutoring every child in America. We couldn't have
00:45:03
both for 10 gawatts of compute. the largest power plant by total possible capacity. Again, this power plant only
00:45:12
runs at 30% capacity. Uh, according to my limited understanding of industrial scale power and this Wikipedia,
00:45:19
>> that's part of a trivia question. >> Running at full hypothetical capacity,
00:45:24
how many gigawatts can the largest power plant in America produce? >> I don't gawatt have to do with
00:45:29
education. Wait saying that the compute required >> the comput required to train the model
00:45:35
that could do either of those things or require 10 gigawatt. >> I don't understand why these people ever
00:45:40
make those like sometimes you see people ask like Elon like well what do you think it would
00:45:45
>> you know solving world hunger and he'll go h and he'll try to answer like why
00:45:49
would you try to answer that don't say don't make a promise that you could
00:45:53
solve cancer with enough power that's an insane thing to say out loud. Yeah.
00:45:58
>> But >> yeah. And you know the thing is is like I've never been an evil villain, like a
00:46:03
super villain. So I can't truly put myself >> What about when you were the hamburger
00:46:07
for Halloween? >> That's true. I was a super villain. Is the hamburger really a super villain?
00:46:12
I've always thought of him as more of like a Robin Hood Man of the People type
00:46:15
figure. >> No, >> that's if Okay, so >> is Ronald McDonald like big brother or
00:46:20
something? >> No. The the hamburger's foil is Mayor Mche. >> I'm so hungry. Okay.
00:46:27
>> I thought they were wrapped in paper. >> Oh, that's good. >> Anyway, what's the question?
00:46:31
>> I think I I literally don't know. >> Oh, how much how many the the the
00:46:37
hardiest most powerful power plant in America? >> How many gigawatts does it produce in
00:46:41
America? >> While it's running at 30% capacity. >> I'm specifically referring to the Grand
00:46:46
[ __ ] Dam in Washington State. >> How many gigawatts did the car in Back to the Future need?
00:46:53
>> Flux capacitor. >> Seven par six. No. Um 100 gawatt. I have no idea. I don't remember. Megawatt is a
00:47:01
thousand. How many? >> A gigawatt is a thousand megawatts. >> Okay. And a megawatt.
00:47:06
>> 1.21. >> Thousand thousand thousand. >> A thousand watts. >> A mega watt is 1,000 watts. No. A
00:47:11
million watts. It's a million watts. A >> million watts. Oh, okay. >> 1.21 gawatt.
00:47:16
>> A gigawatt is a billion watts. >> The flux capacitor needed 1.21 gawatt.
00:47:21
>> Yeah. Also, >> damn. He could have cured cancer instead, >> dude.
00:47:25
>> Yeah. So, you're saying that that dam would let us travel back to the future.
00:47:28
>> I'm saying that like seven times. >> I'm saying that musical comedian Reggie
00:47:33
is one watt. >> Damn it, Reggie lost. It's It's good. We should take a break. We're going insane.
00:47:39
>> I think our audience needs a break more than we >> episode. I'm sorry, guys, but I'll
00:47:44
>> Well, we'll think about it. Answers will be at the end like usual. >> We'll be right back.
00:47:57
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00:48:55
>> All right, welcome back, Marquez. >> Yeah, >> we've talked about a lot of deep stuff
00:49:00
here, but I think I have potentially the biggest question possible for you. >> Sure.
00:49:03
>> Why do you hate OnePlus so much? >> It's a very valid question. You mean you
00:49:08
mean my daily driver that I've been Yeah, >> this has been a question I've seen.
00:49:12
>> Keep your enemies closer, Marquez. >> No, we we did a we did a video on on
00:49:19
silicon carbon batteries and this this video got a mixed reception and obviously I I have thoughts on it, but
00:49:25
I'll have all all the details here. Basically, uh it's a story of like corporate risk assessment, which is not
00:49:31
the most interesting thing, but it's very connected to technology because there are companies out there using
00:49:36
silicon carbon batteries. There are lots of companies out there not using silicon
00:49:39
carbon batteries in smartphones specifically and we talk a lot about smartphones. So after the year and a
00:49:45
half of me making lots of videos on smartphones that have silicon carbon batteries and me raving about them and
00:49:50
being like why aren't these other guys doing that decided to dig a little bit
00:49:55
more into why those other guys aren't doing that. and also have been getting
00:50:00
lots of emails as you can imagine from people going hey we're not idiots we have thought a lot about this and
00:50:06
there's a certain risk tolerance that this company has and a couple concerns
00:50:10
that these companies have about potentially using silicon carbon batteries >> I'd say got to the point where over the
00:50:15
past year you would mention it and we would have comments that are like hey [ __ ] they're not doing it because of
00:50:19
blah blah blah like >> it's it's come up a few times even on this podcast we've mentioned like oh the
00:50:24
I think you mentioned it >> yeah the Google engineer at Google IO last year pulled me aside was like, "You
00:50:28
guys keep asking why we're not using it, and here are the reasons we're not using
00:50:31
it." So, I just was like, I just mentioned that he mentioned that to me. Yeah. Was all I said.
00:50:36
>> Yeah. And that's why I had a bunch of versions of that over the last couple
00:50:38
years. So, I'm like, "All right, let me let me just put all this together into
00:50:41
one video cuz I imagine not everyone knows this stuff. Not everyone gets pulled aside by a Google engineer at IO
00:50:46
to hear about this stuff." So, um, so essentially put together a video on what
00:50:50
some of those companies are thinking about silicon carbon and why they're not
00:50:53
using it so that we can have the whole picture. I'm still going to love silken
00:50:56
carbon batteries and praise them and that's why I'm using this phone and
00:50:59
phones like it with incredible battery life. Uh, but there were a couple things people didn't like about that video.
00:51:04
Probably two main things. One was the thumbnail. Totally valid. It was like a little bit spicy and I think this is an
00:51:10
interesting enough topic without the debate about clickbait. So, I just changed the thumbnail. But then two was
00:51:15
that, you know, I didn't namerop the exact people who had been emailing me over the years or which companies who'
00:51:21
pulled me aside and said these things. and it kind of felt like, oh, I'm like a
00:51:24
mouthpiece for them, like I'm protecting them and justifying them. I'm actually
00:51:28
like a secret silicon carbon hater or something like that. I think a lot of people didn't make it all the way
00:51:32
through the video and just left with that impression. So, I figured it was valid to sort of explain it all uh with
00:51:39
someone who's actually willing to join the podcast and put a their expertise in
00:51:43
front of everyone and explain. So, we have Shen joining us uh from HTC. We've
00:51:49
He's I don't know if he's been on the podcast once before. Okay, because we've
00:51:52
we've twice >> and so HTC obviously does lots of different devices now at this point in
00:51:58
in XR and obviously have done smartphones in the past. RIP uh but they obviously work with batteries a lot. So
00:52:04
he works with batteries and and the corporate risk assessment profile of a company who has to decide what types of
00:52:09
batteries to use. So I figured this would be informative and interesting. You don't have to hear it from me, but
00:52:12
you get all the information at a deeper level. So let's play that quick interview for you now and then we'll
00:52:18
come back right after. So, okay, Shen, thank you for doing this. I appreciate the time. Uh, I think
00:52:25
we should just start off with what are your what's your position? What are your
00:52:28
credentials? Because people want to know how you know this stuff first. So, who are you? What do you do?
00:52:34
>> Okay. Um, I'm Shen. Um, I look after global product management at HTC. Um,
00:52:41
I've been here for almost 11 years now. Um but I've been running product for the
00:52:47
past 5 and a half years um here at our headquarters. Um so I look after product from
00:52:55
conception to all the way to you know end of life when we do you know we when we
00:53:04
so I don't work on phones anymore u but I work on a lot of things where things
00:53:11
like batteries are important so like XR headsets right um generally what you'll
00:53:16
find in the market is about 2 hours um and I would say also with things like smart glasses that we just launched. Um
00:53:24
the compactness of them is also really important. And then one last thing is considering that they're right on your
00:53:30
head. >> Uh we are actually generally more safety conscious than uh others when it comes
00:53:36
to the battery safety itself. >> That is a that's a really good jumping
00:53:39
off point because obviously we talked about you know silicon carbon batteries, regular lithium-ion batteries we've seen
00:53:44
for years and I mostly was you know talking about them in the context of smartphones. But paint me a picture of
00:53:50
what this landscape is like. We've had these batteries for a long time. There's
00:53:53
been tons of advancements and I've started talking about silicon carbon batteries for like the last year or two
00:53:58
in smartphones as a really big deal, like a pretty big leap, but obviously there's some risk assessment there. So,
00:54:04
what do you when you look at just batteries in general, silicon carbon versus the typical battery, what what
00:54:10
are you seeing? >> So, I'm still a massive smartphone fan. So things like silicon uh carbon
00:54:16
batteries do get me excited uh especially at the idea of capacity increasing so much.
00:54:22
>> Yeah. >> But when it comes to the industry itself, I think because batteries are
00:54:28
such a high energy density item, everyone is usually a lot more wary of it. Um the way a you know the way a
00:54:40
battery can usually go wrong is when it um expands it swells uh thermal runaway you know usually maybe if like shorts
00:54:48
inside and some of them don't even have to come from any structural like dropping your phone right like um
00:54:55
batteries that charge below freezing can sometimes have an issue where um the lithium deposits itself as a metal and
00:55:04
that's pretty much an irreversible process. um it can cause cause gas expansion and
00:55:09
it can cause shorts itself. Um, so there are loads of these different things we have to consider when looking at new
00:55:16
chemistries and um, so it depends on the kind of company you are, right? So I I did see
00:55:26
the video and I I I do agree with you. Um, when you are kind of in the top two or three in terms of market share, um,
00:55:37
it's kind of your race to lose. >> Mhm. >> Right. So, you're more wary about a
00:55:42
mistake happening, especially when you sell tens of millions, hundreds of millions of phones a year. Um, so you're
00:55:49
going to be a lot more strict when it comes to safety standards. And sometimes it's might not just, it might just be
00:55:54
the thing that you don't want to um really risk. And I'll also say you know
00:56:00
when we look at something like silicon carbon uh or even you know newer technologies like silicon anode itself
00:56:07
it while it helps with things like capacity um in terms of battery chemistry you're
00:56:15
pulling a lot of other levers instead. So as you go with more and more silicon it is you actually reducing the charge
00:56:23
rate as well. >> Mhm. Um so that is another thing you have to balance and of course things
00:56:28
like longevity. Um you know you mentioned in your video and it's quite accurate when when silicon absorbs
00:56:35
lithium ions as it charges um it swells up right and there are loads of ways you know people there's
00:56:44
like nanoiththography ways of making sure those particles don't swell up as much. Um but at the end of the day it's
00:56:51
still swelling and that will cause you know um companies to have certain concerns and they'll want to test these
00:56:58
for longer periods of time. >> Uh so I expect it to be slower adoption there as well and I would say
00:57:06
you know a lot of different companies take things like battery longevity um differently. Some will make this
00:57:13
their number one thing and you'll realize that they're the ones that don't
00:57:17
really increase charge speed that much. Um don't really experiment with new um
00:57:23
new types of chemistry. >> Um and that's usually because they actually care about longevity a lot more
00:57:30
than others. >> I know you won't say it, but I'll say that that's that's the thing we've seen
00:57:34
from Apple for years. Um, but I what is funny about batteries is like smartphones I talk about smartphones so
00:57:40
much like we get very few really exciting new things with smartphones at this stage. Like they're such a mature
00:57:48
category. So when we do get something interesting like oh a way bigger smartphone sensor or oh this really big
00:57:54
processor node shift or ooh a huge increase in battery capacity that's interesting. So, like we pay more
00:58:00
attention to it and we'd like all of our favorite brands and and our favorite
00:58:04
phone models we're considering buying to be at the forefront of that, but it's
00:58:08
not always as simple as just switching to the new thing. Um, I think one thing that was also mentioned in the video
00:58:15
that was, you know, it's it's obviously very complex and I did a lot of simplification, but is the testing
00:58:19
process. And I I'm assuming this is obviously very important to you because you're putting batteries on people's
00:58:24
heads. like what is the process of testing, you know, charge cycles and for longevity, what is what is the process
00:58:31
like at a big company when trying to assess if a new battery technology is potentially worth it?
00:58:36
>> So, usually when it comes to safety, we work with the battery vendor themselves
00:58:39
to um to come out with safety guidelines. And actually, most companies have roughly the same kind of
00:58:46
guidelines, the same kind of tests. U some may just pull the criteria a little bit higher. Um you'll usually see
00:58:54
battery specs for example like um it'll retain 80% of its charge after 800 to
00:59:01
a,000 charge cycles. We see that >> things like that. >> Yeah. >> Um
00:59:06
so but one other thing is when you have a new product the way it fits in also makes a difference in terms
00:59:15
of how you should test it. Um I I'll give you an example when it comes to battery tech. Um, when it comes to
00:59:22
fitting a battery itself, your, um, manufacturers always leave kind of an expansion space between the battery and
00:59:30
the actual housing because batteries will expand. They'll expand with temperature. They'll expand over over
00:59:37
time, right? There's always going to be a little bit of offging potentially that
00:59:41
can happen. And um, a lot of the time that's within a acceptable range and that's why you leave that expansion
00:59:48
space. Um, it's mostly when that expansion goes beyond what that expansion space allows that you'll see
00:59:54
your phone kind of splitting apart. So, we'll test for a lot of different things. We'll test for, you know, um,
01:00:01
different temperatures. Um, even during shipping, we have a thing called thermal
01:00:05
shock where, you know, something might go from minus something degrees to some really hot and really humid.
01:00:12
>> So, those are things that you kind of have to test for for all kinds of
01:00:17
products. Um, but I'll still say there are a lot of things that is really hard
01:00:23
to test for. You know, there are, you know, 20 30 different combinations that are going to happen, but how do you test
01:00:30
those over a long period of time, right? If you're testing it through for you can
01:00:35
accelerate certain tests, but at the end of the day, you always realize you have
01:00:40
a certain blind spot when it comes to real world usage. Um, so that comes back to what I mentioned. It's all about how
01:00:47
do you want to play that risk. >> Yeah. I mean there like I said there's
01:00:49
there's a lot of variables and maybe if it's in something that's in used it's
01:00:53
used in less environments or less situations then maybe you don't have to test for as many variables but a
01:00:59
smartphone is like it's with you everywhere. Like there's a trillion different things that can happen to it
01:01:03
from temperature to pressure and environments and stuff. So that's it does seem I don't envy the task. It
01:01:08
seems like a very uh detailed complicated one. Um, my last question for you is just what else do you think
01:01:14
people should know about batteries in general? Like there's it's a complex
01:01:18
thing. There's chemistry, there's physics, there's a lot involved. Is
01:01:21
there anything that uh maybe is commonly looked over by by people buying smartphones maybe in just when comparing
01:01:28
one smartphone to the other? What what do you think people should know about batteries that they probably don't
01:01:33
already? I will say one thing about kind of I'll say one that's kind of more
01:01:39
supply chain oriented first. Um and that's specifically usually with new tech you have this one
01:01:46
issue where not many people are making it. If um you know from HC's past we have rules in place um where we are
01:01:57
required to kind of second source everything um and that's for a few reasons. Sometimes, you know, you don't
01:02:04
want one vendor for a really cheap component to go out of business um or to have an issue and then in impact your
01:02:12
entire business. >> Sure. >> Um sometimes it's that um but sometimes
01:02:16
it's also more malicious. You have competitors in the space that will attack your supply chain to try and stop
01:02:23
you from going to market. That happens more than you'd expect. >> That is
01:02:29
>> so Yeah. So, as a big company, um, you're whenever you look at new tech,
01:02:37
um, you're going to want to try and second source everything. I mean, in HTC, the only exception by default is
01:02:42
the CPU, right? Because, um, mostly in a phone, you're not going to find a second
01:02:48
source for like a Qualcomm chipset. >> Sure. >> Um, but you can second source most
01:02:52
things. And then if we have to wave it anything for any reason, you know, that usually has to go um go through uh an
01:02:59
approval process. So that is one thing to consider which is at the scale of certain companies they're going to be
01:03:07
required to second source those because they don't want their sales to tank because one supplier couldn't make
01:03:13
batteries anymore for them. >> Mhm. Yeah. Any other component? Yeah, that is really interesting you bring
01:03:19
that up because that's been a story sometimes every once in a while in the past there'll be a big enough noticeable
01:03:24
difference between maybe a single component from two different suppliers and that'll make a headline like I got
01:03:29
the iPhone with the LG display or I got the iPhone with the Samsung display and you can actually measure a difference
01:03:34
and it's it's kind of rare that that happens but usually you know people are
01:03:37
pretty good about matching the things together but that is that is a fascinating story too. Yeah, I would say
01:03:42
most manufacturers will have the same specs for those different companies. Yeah.
01:03:47
>> Um to try and make sure that it isn't noticeable. >> Um but every now and then you will
01:03:52
somewhat notice it. So that's kind of the supply chain side. >> Um and then yeah, I think the the one thing
01:04:01
about batteries is coming back to there are so many different levers, right? Um,
01:04:07
and you might want capacity, but the next person's going to want charging speed,
01:04:13
right? You might be able to have both, but there's a trade-off somewhere. Um,
01:04:17
that trade-off could be longevity. Um, you know, I don't think any any battery
01:04:23
manufacturer will make something that is below what industry safety regulations are. But what I will say is um those
01:04:32
tolerances will sometimes change how they fit in a product. also impact um how it's tested and um yeah different
01:04:42
companies will just have their different priorities >> and at the end of the day that is going
01:04:47
to be one of the key reasons why they choose a specific battery over another and sometimes could even just be cost
01:04:53
right um memory is going up crazy right um >> we've been having meetings about memory
01:05:01
for all of our products like almost any product with a processor going to have some sort of memory in there. And we're
01:05:09
trying to figure out, okay, what else um could we do without having to increase prices for certain things? Um, and
01:05:16
sometimes, and I'm sure someone in 2026 will end up making a decision that they're not going to invest as much into
01:05:25
the newest technologies because they don't want their um retail price to go up.
01:05:31
>> Yeah. Like I I try to this has come up now that we've like started to make our
01:05:35
own products where we realize how many decisions go into these products and every lever is just a trade-off with
01:05:40
something else. Um I am rooting for silicon carbon batteries to become like we haven't had thankfully any issues
01:05:46
with them. Longevity seems to be totally fine so far but you know batteries even
01:05:51
just within batteries themselves have different levers. It feels like an oversimplification, but a lot of things
01:05:57
come down to just like capacity, charge rate, and longevity. Pick two. You know that. And there's that's not even with
01:06:05
price and like all the other things. Like there's tons of different levers that will flip based on what your
01:06:10
priorities are as a company. But yeah, I'm good. >> You might not know what that lever will
01:06:16
look like. If you pull the other two, you don't know what that longevity level
01:06:19
is going to look like until you've seen that thing run through its entire life
01:06:23
cycle. So I would say like those that aren't using silicon carbon batteries, I
01:06:30
wouldn't say any of them are rooting against it at all. Right? If as long as
01:06:35
it nothing happens to it in whatever their you know time frame they're observing it like I'm sure it's going to
01:06:43
be within um those discussions. I'm sure it's in their discussions now. Um, but
01:06:48
at the end of the day, when they make that decision of what which one they use, um, they're choosing the levers
01:06:56
that makes the most sense for them. >> Awesome. Well, this has been super helpful and insightful and, uh, I'm sure
01:07:01
we'll have you back on the podcast at some point, maybe even back in the studio, but, uh, we appreciate the
01:07:05
insight. So, thanks as always. >> Thank you. >> All right, so that was it. Thank you
01:07:10
again to Shen for spending the time. Obviously, he's a very busy person and being in charge of a big company like
01:07:15
that. There are tons of things to consider all the time. It was cool having the facts from him and the
01:07:20
expertise. And again, the risk that we're talking about is not just like the
01:07:25
specific safety risk of one technology, but it's like a corporate risk, it's a
01:07:30
financial risk, it's a longevity risk, it's it's all sorts of things that come
01:07:33
with the the choices, the levers you pull to use different technologies. So, thought that was interesting to hear.
01:07:38
Yeah, I think one of the a pretty common comment was along the lines of like, well, Apple and Samsung aren't going to
01:07:44
risk spending more money on it. It's like, yeah, that's that's part of the
01:07:48
risk assetment thing is like it costs more money, potentially has way more money. You think about
01:07:55
>> Note 7. I mean, how much money Samsung probably lost about this like, yeah, all
01:07:58
these companies care way more about bottom line and money than they do any of us and getting the best features. So,
01:08:05
>> yeah. Yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious, but >> I was I am reminded that the the guy at
01:08:09
IO that told me the reason Google didn't use them at the time. Again, this was a
01:08:12
year ago. Things might have changed since then. >> It was two years ago. >> Maybe it might have been two years ago.
01:08:17
It might have been two years ago. Might have been two IO. IO to Google IO we go.
01:08:23
>> Um what? >> Old McDonald. >> That's what he said. Yeah. The
01:08:27
hamburger. Yeah. Um anyway, so he at the time it wasn't he wasn't saying that
01:08:34
like they're more likely to explode necessarily. What he had told me was that their longevity they started to
01:08:39
lose their char their total ability to charge to 100%. >> Much quicker and after twoish years the
01:08:47
degradation was a lot higher. >> I am aware like from two years from then they've actually made the technology
01:08:54
quite a bit better. They've made the the um chemistry a lot better so that it,
01:08:58
you know, maintains a lot of charge cycles. >> I think OnePlus has put out a lot of um
01:09:02
kind of like technical stuff about this and how they're able to actually maintain like a thousand charge cycles
01:09:07
for silicon carbon which is a lot better than some people. >> Yeah. >> Um so that's really important stuff
01:09:12
changes. Yeah. The this like assessment of the technology will be constantly changing and then the way that these
01:09:17
companies decide whether to use any of this stuff or not is also constantly changing. So, as it gets better, like,
01:09:23
okay, one of the big points in the comments was, well, we haven't had any issues so far with silicon carbon
01:09:27
batteries, which is great. That's really good news for potentially getting them
01:09:30
sooner in everyone else's phones, but yeah, this stuff is constantly evolving.
01:09:34
>> And it's newish to the point where like it's only been out for like 2 years.
01:09:37
>> Exactly. So, like, >> yeah, we're not going to see if there are any problems, we're not going to
01:09:42
start seeing it until like a year from now or so. And the variable of humankind is so much more insane than anything you
01:09:50
can test in a lab. I mean, we've seen how many folds have been folded >> a 100,000 times in a lab and people are
01:09:56
breaking them two weeks. Yeah. We peeled the screen protector off of the first fold immediately. Like
01:10:02
>> like us as humans >> destroy things. And when it's something that has a little bit of a more
01:10:09
dangerous potential, it's just like even if that's so small, the news cycle of
01:10:14
when if that potentially happens is so big. >> And we talk about we talk about how
01:10:18
like, you know, when YouTube makes a change and it's like, oh, we're only
01:10:21
testing this on 1% of customers, but then you realize what 1% is for YouTube, then that's like a lot of people. It's
01:10:28
the same with like Samsung sells an insane amount of phones, right? So, like if 1% of their phones have battery
01:10:35
issues, that's a way bigger story than 1% of like the amount of phones that Google sells having battery issues.
01:10:40
>> Yeah, that's exactly and what Shin was talking about. Like if you're if you're
01:10:44
pretty confident that the issues with your phones are one in a million and you only sell half million phones, you feel
01:10:49
pretty good about that. But if you're Samsung and you sell tens of millions of
01:10:52
phones, >> the risk profile is different. >> And are also like, yeah, you're just
01:10:56
leading everything already. Like, why change anything? I'm already making plenty of money and people aren't
01:11:02
switching off me so why would I give them anything else about the S26 now? >> I think that's I think
01:11:08
>> yeah literally >> that was maybe the most like impactful line that he said to me which is like
01:11:13
it's your race to lose. >> Yeah. >> In all these other competitive markets
01:11:16
where there is no true like number one runaway with a high market share. They're all very competitive and that's
01:11:22
way more exciting. You get way more advanced product really quickly. And then like I said in that video here in
01:11:28
the US where >> market share is kind of stacked for a couple companies they are I mean we see
01:11:34
it they are so passive about a lot of stuff. So yeah that's their risk assessment profile.
01:11:39
>> The S23 is the S24s the S25 is the S263 plus >> new boxes. Exact plus+.
01:11:46
>> My thing too is like I feel like if there's one thing I can trust and
01:11:49
believe in it's that these companies want to make more money. So if if there's an opportunity for them to this
01:11:57
new battery tech, they're going to do it as soon as possible. So >> if they think it'll like drive them
01:12:02
market share. >> I mean the whole reason that Samsung is making a foldable allegedly making a
01:12:06
foldable to compete with the iPhone foldable form factor is because they know it will make them money
01:12:12
>> because they want because people are like, "Oh, I love that shape, but I want
01:12:15
to be on Android." Also, Samsung has some pretty bad PTSD with the Note 7 explosion.
01:12:19
>> I was just thinking about that. That was 2016, right? >> I think it was 2016.
01:12:25
>> 16, 2017, so almost a decade ago. I always find myself saying like, "Hey,
01:12:28
hang and you know what happened to Samsung." But for some 15year-olds watching this, they actually don't know
01:12:34
what happened. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. So yeah, a lot of people might
01:12:37
not even know what the Galaxy Note was >> exactly. Part of the age verification is what
01:12:46
happened to Samsung. >> That's so funny. There was a time where you had to choose between having an
01:12:50
Android phone that came with a stylus or air travel. >> That's true. >> Yeah.
01:12:55
>> Yeah. You could not bring a Galaxy Note 7 on a plane. >> For those that don't know, the Galaxy
01:13:00
Note 7 notably >> appreciate it. Uh started exploding a lot. And um even that is there's 96
01:13:12
cases total. I think >> that's a lot. >> It is a lot. It's a lot, but in the
01:13:15
grand scheme of things, it's not really that much. >> I only exploded 96 times. It's not that
01:13:21
big a deal. >> I mean, especially knowing that while you're sleeping, your phone could
01:13:24
randomly explode like that. I would not Yeah. So, they recalled it and then they
01:13:28
just didn't end up replacing it, which was very funny. They did later release
01:13:32
the Note 7 fan edition >> for those really want a Note 7. >> I really want a Note 7.
01:13:40
>> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. Like I said, lithium-ion batteries aren't perfect either. It's
01:13:44
just they have some level of risk all the way across the board. >> Can I throw something out there also
01:13:48
just about the video >> just as an explanation? The reason we showed the Jerryrig everything fold uh
01:13:56
like smoking in the video is because when we were looking over the script, someone at the studio was like, "Oh, I
01:14:02
don't know what the term thermal runaway means." So rather than just putting this
01:14:07
big explanation there, we just I mean, I guess it's not a big explanation, but
01:14:09
we're like, "We'll show footage of what a thermal runaway is. don't have that
01:14:13
silicon carbon. I totally get why people think that felt uh >> targeted, but that was not the purpose
01:14:19
of it. >> It all came it all the mentality that a lot of the comments that we're seeing
01:14:22
and some reaction videos people made, a lot of it came from the original thumbnail, which was people going, "Oh,
01:14:27
this is a hit piece against silicon carbon, which if you ignore every other video I've ever made is a reasonable
01:14:33
take. But now that the thumbnail has changed, the packaging makes a lot more sense." We are explaining the risk
01:14:39
assessment not going hey silicon carbon bad lithium ion good. So if that was your thought now you know
01:14:45
>> and and the risk assment again is mostly about pricing and longevity and less
01:14:49
about exploding. >> Exactly. >> Which a lot of people thought it was
01:14:52
about exploding but it's not. >> So so there we go. >> Can I say a random thing that Shen
01:14:57
pointed out that I thought was interesting >> was the more he was talking about it.
01:15:01
kind of like in my head tried to visualize what these levers are that he was talking about that you have to like
01:15:06
pull and push or whatever. And it just reminded me kind of like an exposure triangle like with cameras like the more
01:15:11
of one thing you do the less of the other like charge cycles or capacity and it's like
01:15:16
>> right >> eventually we'll have Sony's that can just see in the dark but
01:15:21
>> yeah but and it was also a good point because it's like an exposure triangle
01:15:23
where you have to take 10,000 pictures before you can see the light meter. >> You know what I mean? because like he
01:15:29
made that really good point that it's like you can play with the longevity lever or the charge speed lever, but you
01:15:35
don't know what that third lever is going to be like until you've had these
01:15:38
batteries used for a while for years. Yeah. >> Anyway, all in the name of shedding
01:15:43
light on things, thank you again to Shen for uh for helping us out with that. And
01:15:47
I think it's time for a second trivia. >> More trivia. >> Trivia, dude. So,
01:15:54
>> this is a YouTube question. Let's see who gets it. YouTube. I should get this
01:15:58
>> like YouTube being pre-installed on which iPod? No. Um, >> triggered. I knew that one.
01:16:04
>> Not including music videos. The topmost YouTube video >> is a GTA 6 trailer, of course. But one
01:16:12
company accidentally broke that record in 2024. Do you remember what company that was?
01:16:18
>> Most viewed YouTube video. That's not >> 24 hours. >> In 24 hours. That is not a music video.
01:16:22
>> That is not a music video. >> Accidentally, one company accidentally
01:16:25
broke that record. Yep. >> Cuz it Oh, >> it wasn't. Was it or was it?
01:16:33
>> Really? Was it? >> I think I know. >> You think? >> Well, I'm trying to put the pieces
01:16:38
together. I I It was very well worded. Welled question. >> Thank you. It took me this whole People
01:16:43
go back 20 minutes and just look at me at the desk like this. >> And that was me trying to think about
01:16:48
how to phrase this question. >> Well done. >> Accidentally. >> Okay, we'll think about that. It
01:16:52
>> was intentional. >> Answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back. Support
01:17:04
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01:17:56
That's zap i.com/wave. All right, welcome back to Waveform, the waveform podcast as you know it. Uh
01:18:04
where we talk about EVs. Uh two EVs to talk about this week. >> The cheap one or the expensive one?
01:18:10
>> Expensive. >> The expensive one or the cheap one? >> Cheap is relative to the expensive one,
01:18:15
>> of course. >> Yeah, let's do the cheap one. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. Uh, Rivian R2
01:18:20
reviews dropped this week >> sort of including ours. Yeah, >> reviews first drive. Uh,
01:18:27
>> final prototype evaluation. We don't have full pricing of all the trims yet,
01:18:31
but uh, you know, our video went up. Uh, CarWow video went up. Jerry Everything video went up. Doug Demiro video, a
01:18:36
bunch of us got to actually hang out and drive these cars. Uh, R2, as many of you
01:18:41
know, is the slightly smaller and roughly roughly half the price Rivian R1. It's a second generation product.
01:18:48
It's their 20 SUV. It's their Model Y fighter. It's their mass market
01:18:52
competitor to like put them on the map and save them. Blah blah blah. All these expectations for R2. Uh, I thought it
01:18:58
was really, really good. I thought it was really impressive. The software was good. The steering wheel haptics were
01:19:04
like PS5 controllers with the like spring weight like it was really relaxed. I'm just I'm just saying. Uh,
01:19:12
it looks like an R1. It's just smaller. It's nimble. It's 2,000 lbs lighter.
01:19:16
simpler. Um, it also was the highest end trim version of it. So, it's obviously
01:19:21
not going to be the base $45,000 one, but it was a dual motor all-wheel drive, 600 something horsepower, 0 to 60 in 3.5
01:19:27
seconds. Very, very capable machine. We off-roaded in it. We drove it on streets, got roughly 300 miles of range.
01:19:32
Lots of good things to say about it. Uh, but we don't know the price of the one
01:19:37
that I tested. >> That won't come out for another month or so, which everyone is now, you know,
01:19:42
doing their theorizing about how much they think it will cost. But I'm curious
01:19:45
if you guys are thinking good things about our tuna. >> Well, with the RAM shortage, you know,
01:19:49
it's going to be way more expensive. >> I'm kidding. >> Every car has not.
01:19:54
>> Yeah. I mean, there's a little bit of Yeah, there's a little bit of memory.
01:19:56
>> Yeah. I'm curious. Do you know which trim you drove? Like, did they tell you?
01:20:01
>> Yes. >> So, I am not allowed to weigh in on the prices, but yes, I drove the highest end
01:20:07
trim that they plan on shipping in 2026. And when they announced it however many
01:20:12
years ago, what was the price for the people that put in the pre-order? Andrew, I believe you did that, right?
01:20:18
>> The pre-order though was >> it was like 100. >> It was like 100 bucks.
01:20:22
>> But for which trim do you know? Or was it a trim? >> Oh, you didn't get to pick. Okay. You
01:20:26
picked that. >> I thought the whole thing was under 60. >> Oh, that was what I was trying to ask
01:20:31
like what was the number? >> I don't remember. I thought back in the day there was an under 60.
01:20:36
>> I what I mostly see is 45,000. this this whole price promise of like this is
01:20:40
their $45,000 competitor >> if I remember correctly and I could be totally wrong is everyone was saying
01:20:44
under 60 a few years ago which >> makes most people assume the higher trim
01:20:49
would be 59 but that was like you know the like 595 or whatever that is under 60 um
01:20:56
>> I don't know that was two years ago a lot of stuff has changed >> checks
01:20:59
>> these things never come out the price they >> and to be clear the R2 is only coming in
01:21:04
the R1S trim where it's smaller I mean it's a smaller or SUV SUV. Correct.
01:21:10
There's no pickup truck, >> right? >> Uh which yeah, this this is like the
01:21:15
common uh shape of vehicle that especially America just buys a lot of >> in general. And Model Y is most popular
01:21:22
vehicle on Earth for a reason. Like there's a shape in a two row SUV, higher
01:21:25
off the ground type of thing that people like. And this is competing directly with that.
01:21:30
>> So that's out. That's, you know, not too many hot takes about it.
01:21:32
>> I'm just more excited for the R3. Dude, I want the R3U. This is cute. This is cool. Thank you.
01:21:38
Now do R3. >> The R3 is like a foot and a half to two feet shorter than the Model 3. It'll be
01:21:43
even easier to park in Brooklyn. >> You mean lengthwise, right? >> Lengthwise. Yeah. Front to back
01:21:49
>> and wise. You got to really get down to get into that thing. >> Thing about the R2 was
01:21:55
>> they had like the decals on it as like the like >> R2-D2. >> Well, the like camouflage quote unquote.
01:22:01
Like >> it didn't cover any lines. It just still looked exactly the same. It just looked
01:22:06
like it had like a silly paint job on it. >> We all know. I mean, they showed me in
01:22:09
that studio like two years ago or whatever what the R2 is supposed to look like. So, this is now technically an
01:22:15
updated final version, but it's like we already we can see it. It's like it has
01:22:18
a couple stripes on it. Okay, whatever. But we know what the R2 is going to look
01:22:21
like. So, yeah, R2, they got very clever with it. I will say they had some nice Easter eggs. You can see some of them in
01:22:26
Doug Demiro's video, some of them in Zach's video. The charge flap, which is
01:22:32
the back left corner, has a maze in it. People did screenshot the video and fill
01:22:37
out the maze. Doesn't seem to mean anything. >> Just seems like a long
01:22:41
>> top post on our subreddit just says, "This mazeing sucks. >> It doesn't." I cuz I remember I when I
01:22:47
was there and I'm sure someone from Ruby is watching this, I was like, "Please
01:22:50
show me all the Easter eggs." And they're like, "We can't. We all I can
01:22:53
tell you is there's a bunch and I can't explain any of them or show you where
01:22:58
they And we were like, "All right, well, I found the maze. So, can you at least
01:23:01
tell me what the maze means when people fill it out?" They were like, "It's just
01:23:05
a maze. It's just a maze." I was like, "What do you mean it's just a ma? You
01:23:08
spent all this effort like building and designing your own maze and the molding to like hide in the charge port. What is
01:23:13
it?" They wouldn't tell me. So, now that people have filled it out, it seems like
01:23:17
it actually is just a maze and nothing special having to do with unless it's
01:23:20
like a it's just for the whimsy >> topographical map or something. I don't
01:23:24
know. >> There ain't nothing wrong with something that doesn't mean anything.
01:23:26
>> That's fair enough. Well, here's some things that did mean something. In the
01:23:30
window lining of the windshield, there's a little smiley face that looks like a
01:23:34
little yeti smiley face. In the back windows, in the window lining, there's a
01:23:39
little climber. >> Do they mean anything? >> Well, it's an adventure vehicle.
01:23:43
>> Then why are people so mad at the maze? Just a maze. >> Well, it's not really adventure themed
01:23:47
until it means something. Uh, underneath the lining of the center storage, there's a little diagram of like things
01:23:55
that can fit there, like a water bottle and a little camera and a knife, which is kind of cool.
01:23:59
>> Is there a speaker? >> They replaced Sorry, I didn't watch the
01:24:02
video yet. >> They moved the speakers up until like under that front dash. So, they took
01:24:06
them out of the doors actually. >> There's still a flashlight in the door.
01:24:09
>> You know, they know what we want. >> The most important part. Well, that was
01:24:15
the thing about the R2 is how do you take half the price off and still keep all the character of the Rivian like R1
01:24:22
stuff and I thought the flagship was obviously going to go and it stayed. So, that was actually kind of impressive.
01:24:28
>> They also announced an Apple Watch app that you can use to unlock the doors
01:24:30
now. >> Drive >> as if they I mean, >> yeah, you need better key fobs because that's
01:24:37
like my number one complaint. >> Yeah, that is. >> Yeah. Uh, two other Easter eggs. Uh the
01:24:41
molding underneath the windshield wiper fluid uh canister in the car is a small skunk/frog
01:24:50
hybrid animal because that's a >> frog skunk which is a frunk. >> It's a frunk frunk.
01:24:59
>> That means something. >> You should also know that that spot right underneath the front of the
01:25:04
windshield where the windshield wipers are is called the cowl or cowling. And if you uh if you peek in there, there's
01:25:11
also a cow outline of a cowl owl. >> Okay, that's pretty sweet. That's
01:25:16
>> I didn't know David started working at Rivian with all these puns. >> That joke.
01:25:21
>> I love it. >> They know their audience. >> They wouldn't show me or tell me about
01:25:25
any of the rest of them, but that's as many as I was able to find. So, >> wow.
01:25:27
>> Okay. Wait, this is just to be clear, this is going to be on all R2s, not just
01:25:31
these models you've reviewed. >> These Easter eggs? >> Yeah, these Easter eggs.
01:25:34
>> I believe this should be on all of them. >> Okay, that makes me very happy.
01:25:36
>> Yes. Yes. Are you getting an R2, Adam? >> Hell no. I'm getting an R3X.
01:25:40
>> Me, too, baby. Let's go. >> Let's go. You're You're buckled up for
01:25:43
that six-year weight. >> I'm ready. I'm ready. I mean, I'm still
01:25:45
paying off my current car. So, by then, I'll be ready. >> All right. As long as you know. As long
01:25:49
as you know. >> I paid mine off yesterday. >> Well, there's another EV I do want to
01:25:51
bring up to you guys because there's so many weird interesting things about it
01:25:54
that are connected to Waveform. Number one, it's a Ferrari EV. We don't know
01:25:58
what the outside looks like, but it's called the Luc. Luc, I think. Luc. >> Do you have to say it like that?
01:26:04
>> I'm not even going to pronounce it. There's always something Italian with
01:26:06
that. Number two, >> number two, this interior was the first with assistance from Love from, which is
01:26:14
Johnny Ives firm. So, this is potentially the first car interior that Johnny IV has gotten his hands on. And
01:26:22
it's always funny listening to old I think I think Neil's brought this up on
01:26:25
old Vergecasts, which is like all the Apple executives drive Ferraris and all they really want is them to have CarPlay
01:26:32
and like nice. Now they've finally gotten to work with Ferrari. So this is the first time
01:26:36
they've had a direct can in this. But uh there are some videos out there this
01:26:40
like big teaser video or really not a teaser. They show the whole interior of the car and Okay.
01:26:48
Okay. Okay. Okay. >> So many thoughts. Each individual switch and display and UI element is
01:26:58
actually beautiful. >> Right. I don't know. >> But then when >> in isolation
01:27:02
>> in isolation like each button, each switch really clean, really nicely done,
01:27:08
>> but then you zoom out to the whole interior and it looks >> bad. >> Like I think pretty bad. It has this
01:27:18
like retro look to it, which is really nice for my take last week that nostalgia is ruining everyone's taste.
01:27:26
They they went a little bit like confused with the nostalgia. I think >> it's hard to call it nostalgia when it's
01:27:32
like, "Hey, the steering wheel looks kind of old, but also here's an Apple
01:27:35
Watch Ultra right next to it." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The tablet looks
01:27:39
like an Apple Watch. A giant Apple Watch Ultra. >> Yeah. But how long ago did the first
01:27:43
Apple Watch come out? >> We're on like the three now. So, probably four years.
01:27:48
>> He's talking about the No, not the Ultra. The original Apple was the 25th,
01:27:52
>> right? It's been like a decade. So, this could still be reminiscent of older
01:27:57
times. >> Yeah, it's it's just a it's a weird I I'm guessing this is not going to be a
01:28:03
cheap car. This is going to be a car that people It's a Ferrari. Like, people
01:28:06
with a lot of money are Ferrari. >> And I just don't know what type of
01:28:11
person wants this. And I say that knowing that a lot of people do actually want retro future. They just want an
01:28:19
electric version of an old car. A lot of people say this a lot, and I'm not sure
01:28:23
how many would actually buy it if it's like small phones where we all say we
01:28:27
want it but we don't buy it but like the old remember the the Buick commercial
01:28:30
where they show the GNX over and over and over again which is like super sick and everyone's like we just want that
01:28:34
but electric and then you show the new Buick and it's like I don't want that.
01:28:38
So the old Volkswagen bus everyone loves that and everyone wishes there was just
01:28:43
an electric version of that but then they had to go modernize a whole bunch of design elements and people want it
01:28:48
less. >> I think that's still true. Like people seem to really like the idea of an old
01:28:52
design that's just electrified >> 100%. >> But this is >> um Yeah, it's it's we I really want to
01:28:59
know what the outside of the car looks. >> I mean, that's kind of why uh Hyundai
01:29:03
Hyundai Hyundai is making the that car that is using >> No, the 74. >> What is it called?
01:29:11
>> Oh, the N74, which they did say is going to be production car, >> but then they aren't doing it. I wonder,
01:29:18
>> aren't they? They keep saying they will, but they keep saying they will never get
01:29:21
into doing it. >> It had like >> hydrogen >> hydrogen fuel cells on whatever.
01:29:26
>> But that was years ago. I've been talking about that like and at first
01:29:29
sick. >> At first they're like it's a concept and then they were like maybe we might do it
01:29:33
and they're like but we probably won't. And then they were like >> it's going to go into production and
01:29:37
then we just haven't heard anything. >> I just think it would be such a huge PR
01:29:40
win if a company would actually do what everyone says we want. I just there's
01:29:45
probably some amount of surveys that they've run or or people who just say they would buy it but wouldn't actually
01:29:50
buy it. >> Yeah. >> You know what's the best thing about this this interior that I'm seeing is
01:29:55
just that there's buttons and knobs. >> Agreed. Yeah. Turns out if it's just not
01:29:59
an iPad, people get excited which is hilarious from Johnny >> I will say like the giant Apple Watch
01:30:05
iPad thing kind of just looks like a knockoff iPad. I don't know. All of this, and I'm not a designer, obviously,
01:30:13
but a lot of this to me is very ugly. Each individual piece is sick. >> The dynamic clock, dude, that like you
01:30:22
can >> Are all dynamic? >> The torque meter that >> all buildings outside, David?
01:30:30
>> The torque meter that changes based on what mode you're in is sick. I will say
01:30:34
if I was able to just like buy this tablet and stick it into my car, I would 100% do it.
01:30:39
>> It's so ugly. >> No, it's sick as hell. >> Oh my god.
01:30:43
>> It's >> This is like so on the line of like >> good and bad that I feel like if I have
01:30:49
any response to it, it'll either be like, "You don't like it cuz you can't
01:30:51
afford it or >> you don't know anything about Ferraris." Yeah. Like what? I lose saying anything
01:30:57
about this car. >> The launch mode. Did you see the thing about the launch mode where you like you
01:31:01
pull the handle in? >> Hold on. Do you put and then everything like turns orange?
01:31:06
>> It looks sick in isolation. It looks awesome. >> This is the key, I think.
01:31:11
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. The key is a little mini like juice box. >> Fits in like the little piece like this
01:31:15
is the key cuz later down here it shows the key. >> That's pretty cool.
01:31:19
>> Oh my. There's a lot of scrolling on this website. >> Yeah. Something that I did think was
01:31:23
cool is that they made like a book series about the development of this car. That's like four books. They like
01:31:29
Johnny I've like developed with his team and apparently they do that on every
01:31:33
project and I think that's very cool >> and you know I'm happy for them.
01:31:37
>> Remember when they announced CarPlay Ultra and all the things popped up in
01:31:40
the in the ad and they were like, "Oh, this is so cool. It looks so pretty."
01:31:44
And then all the car makers were like, "No, we're not doing that. We don't know
01:31:46
where we got that from." Does this actually exist or are these just a bunch
01:31:51
of pretty renders that they did and put on a website? >> This is the interior reveal of Ferrari
01:31:56
has said that they're going to make an electric car. This is the interior reveal of their eventual electric car.
01:32:01
They will at some point reveal the exterior and the price and the specs and all the rest of that stuff, but this is
01:32:06
a car that they've said they're going to actually make. >> But none of these are pictures. They're
01:32:10
like videos. There are videos. >> Yeah, there I I'll show you I'll send
01:32:14
you one on Twitter or something. But >> of like an actual >> like someone driving it or inside it?
01:32:18
>> No, just the they've like taken the interior and like put it in a studio and
01:32:22
like the people hit the buttons themselves and they sound really nice and stuff. We got to talk about the
01:32:26
binnacle, man. >> What's that? >> What's the binnacle? >> Dials are sick, man.
01:32:31
>> What? >> The binnacle is what they're calling the gauge cluster behind the steering wheel.
01:32:34
A binnacle is You ever seen on like an old timey boat, there's like that tower
01:32:38
right by the helm >> that has like a compass and maybe like a clock. >> Oh, does it have one of those?
01:32:43
>> No, but they're calling the gauge cluster the binnacle. And I like saying
01:32:46
the word binnacle. >> Like pinnacle sort of. >> Yeah. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
01:32:52
>> Yeah, man. I I like each individual piece. I hate the whole thing, though.
01:32:55
I'm also very curious like there's so many screens that are sort of hidden in
01:32:58
this car and I'm very curious if you're going to be able to see bezels. >> That's a great question.
01:33:03
>> That's gonna make a big difference about how tacky it looks. >> Is this just running Android
01:33:07
>> OLED? That would be really funny. >> Definitely is. >> I hope it's almost positive.
01:33:13
>> You would be you would be rational to think that such an expensive car has to
01:33:17
use the latest tech and screens, but if you look at any other Ferrari, >> are they all LCDs?
01:33:22
>> They don't look great. Yeah, I would not trust Ferrari to go and write Horse OS,
01:33:27
you know, like that's not that's not what I would want to use. Yeah. >> Yeah. I It's It's weird. Anyway, that
01:33:33
that ends my Ferrari crash out for now. >> All right. >> My turn. >> Yeah.
01:33:37
>> Andrew brought you guys another game. >> Buckle up, guys. >> Yeah. It's called How Long Can You
01:33:40
Listen to Me Crash Out about >> Super Bowl. >> Yo, Andrew, did you see like Olympic
01:33:45
figure skating the other day? >> I've I have not had internet for a very
01:33:49
long time, and that is the start of my crash out. >> Well, sure. But I want to open this with
01:33:53
a question to you guys. >> Okay. >> If at your house a wire connecting to the
01:34:03
telephone pole >> I'm going stop you right there. Three of us don't have houses.
01:34:07
>> I know. But just imagine. Okay. Just imagine. >> Imagine. >> Uhhuh. You and your family live in a
01:34:13
house. >> I'm going stop you right there. >> I do not have a family. A wire is down
01:34:19
across your driveway and you contact the company that deals with that wire. >> Three of us do not have drive. I'm
01:34:27
sorry. I'm so >> How fast do you think that company should come to deal with that wire?
01:34:32
>> Is it a live wire? >> How am I supposed to know? I'm not an expert.
01:34:36
>> Well, this is the internet. Your internet went down. So, it's not like a
01:34:39
power line. >> Okay. So, >> a wire has come down from >> a wire has come down from a telephone
01:34:45
pole. >> Okay. Do you feel confident enough that that is a power wire or a cable wire?
01:34:50
>> I don't know. It >> sounds like it's cable. >> Okay. I only know it is a cable wire
01:34:54
because >> here I'll I'll paint the picture. >> Andrew, in the video showed me there's a
01:34:59
transformer on the pole. Instantly >> I'll explain a little further. This is
01:35:05
the This is on Saturday. >> Remember, we're recording this Wednesday. That will help in this story.
01:35:10
On Saturday, uh this big tree in front of my yard, it's a very tall, skinny tree. It's probably like 50 or 60 ft
01:35:16
tall. Pine tree is swaying in the winds because we have had super super cold days, lots and lots of ice. And on
01:35:24
Saturday we had one of the coldest days of the year including wind gusts of like
01:35:28
40 to 50 miles an hour. So like 11:00 a.m. there's two of these trees standing
01:35:33
next to each other and I noticed one is significantly leaning more than the other. I also have pictures, Adam, will
01:35:39
give them to you if you're watching. you can see this to the point where there's
01:35:41
this like bulge coming out of the ground and I'm like >> next to the tree that looks bad and I
01:35:46
realize that the root system is pulling up on this tree. So I immediately call um our power company and say this tree
01:35:51
is going to fall down and is most likely going to hit a a telephone pole. >> Mhm.
01:35:56
>> Within an hour I'm sitting at my bay window and I hear the gust of wind and I
01:36:00
look out and I watch the tree come down and snap the telephone pole in half. Yeah. It hit the wires. Not even the
01:36:06
pole. The wires so hard >> that the telephone pole about a third of the way up, snapped clean off the whole
01:36:12
telephone pole flips upside down because the transformer and all the wires are at
01:36:16
the top. It is now hanging in the road >> and a tree is across my driveway and
01:36:20
across the road. >> Mhm. >> Um, so I do what I should have done. I first call the fire I first call 911
01:36:28
because there's active wires down in the middle of the road. Then I call the
01:36:31
power company to tell them what's happening. Then I call Xfinity. >> Did you lose power when I
01:36:36
>> immediately? >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um also, so at the telephone pole, it's
01:36:40
technically across the street. No sparks. >> Oh, >> but it's across the street,
01:36:44
>> but there's a wire that comes and then runs into a telephone pole between me
01:36:47
and my neighbor's house to then split off how we get our utilities. >> Um so
01:36:54
dispatcher obviously picks up, I talk to a real person, power company, I talk to
01:36:57
a real person, Xfinity, who's my cable company, I tell them about it. and through their automated services at
01:37:04
1800xfinity is just um you think it literally is like would you like to report a down and potentially
01:37:12
dangerous wire? Do you want me to text you a way to submit this? And at this point I'm like I just want my power
01:37:19
back. I will just take the ticket and submit it. >> So that happens. The power company fixes
01:37:25
this telephone pole by 10 p.m. It was still a really long time of being really cold at home cuz I had no power. Um, but
01:37:32
they get that stuff done. Then the next day, my wires, >> Saturday was the coldest day we had.
01:37:36
>> It was the coldest day we've had. I could felt like see my breath inside my
01:37:40
house. Um, we sent Claire and Lane to uh someone else's house and they stayed
01:37:45
there. Um, this is all going to end with me talking about customer service and how
01:37:51
every large company is a bunch ofing cowards and that they use customer service to just deal with all of it. Um,
01:37:57
but okay, I'm going to try and go as fast as I can here. Next day, Sunday, I
01:38:02
realized there's still a wire across my driveway. The only reason I know this is
01:38:04
not a dangerous wire is because I personally talked to one of the power company people and they say, "We did all
01:38:09
our wires. The wire left down on your driveway right now is the cable companies and we you're not going to
01:38:15
deal with it. Sorry." Um, so then I call that day Xfinity. The problem with
01:38:21
Xfinity's horrific call answering service or whatever it is is it connects you to pretty much no one until you at
01:38:30
at some point can get to technical customer support. The people who are like trying to help you troubleshoot
01:38:34
your router and everything. First guy tells me someone will be there today between 6:00 and 11. And at that point
01:38:40
I'm like that feels like way too long for a wire to be down. So I get mad and
01:38:44
then no one shows up that day. And so then I call the next day and they were like, "Oh, no one showed up. Uh, they're
01:38:52
supposed to be here at 10 to 12. Call us later if no one shows up." I called them
01:38:55
later, no one shows up. They're like, "Oh, it's scheduled for tomorrow." And
01:38:58
then yesterday I call again. They're like, "Oh, 10 to 12, 12:00." I actually did get an automated
01:39:05
thing saying like, "They'll be a little late today. I call again at 5:00 p.m.
01:39:09
Oh, the schedule's for tomorrow now." >> Oh my god. No one can connect me to the
01:39:14
like >> actual person, >> the technicians that are doing the exterior things. Every time they're just
01:39:18
like, "Well, we're just technical support. There's nothing we can do." And
01:39:21
I go, "What's the line for customer service?" And they say, "It's 1800
01:39:25
xfinity." Which is how I got to those people in the first place. Um I super
01:39:31
TLDDR. I'm not proud of how many times I freaked out at people on the phone. I
01:39:36
mean, I probably have spent six to eight hours on the telephone in the last three
01:39:40
or four days. Marquez came in the other day at me like locking >> the hold for me.
01:39:44
>> Yeah. >> No, no. Physically talking to people for that long trying to get anything done.
01:39:49
Um >> it's just literally nothing can happen. No one can connect me to any of these
01:39:55
technicians. None of these technicians are calling me to tell me they're just
01:39:58
not going to show up that day. It's in It's got to be the worst customer
01:40:03
service I've ever dealt with. And we all know that Comcast and Xfinity sucks.
01:40:06
>> Yep. But this is not just them. Like if you think about it, most places now if there's customer service,
01:40:15
you get this crappy answering machine of like, here's a bunch of different options that take you nowhere, hang the
01:40:20
phone up on you all the time. And when you talk to someone, it's a call center
01:40:23
that probably can't help you. And those poor people on that side are definitely
01:40:27
just getting screamed at for nothing that they >> Why don't you just change your provider?
01:40:31
We have plenty of options. Oh my god, >> it's I literally don't have any other
01:40:35
provider option in my area except for I think their Spectrum and it offers 25 down as their max. Um, so I don't have
01:40:43
another option, but uh >> California has a lot of laws around this. So >> I would kill from
01:40:48
>> in San Francisco and Santa Cruz. In Santa Cruz we had Cruise Net and we had
01:40:51
Gigabit before anybody else had gigabit because there was like 20 different options just in Santa Cruz which is like
01:40:57
a town of like not that many people. If I had kind of say that having multiple options creates competition, which then
01:41:03
>> Marquez, careful. >> Yeah, it's like >> Marz, competition is bad. Competition is
01:41:07
bad. We need to own people. >> Are you saying you could bust trusts? Is that what you're saying?
01:41:13
>> Wait a second. >> Wait, what if we did that? >> Yeah. >> I What if we had more than one option?
01:41:20
>> Have you ever guys played that game? It's kind of old. You have to like you
01:41:24
own the stuff and then you keep and then you own more stuff. >> Yeah. Wait, how do you win that game?
01:41:29
>> You don't. You just hate each other. >> Everyone gives up. >> Oh, I know how you win. You just make
01:41:34
sure you're the only option. >> I think it's called monopoly because it
01:41:37
means one. >> That's why there's only one poly market. >> There are two. There's Ki as well.
01:41:43
>> I never mind. >> I want to say I appreciate you guys because I'm still fuming thinking about
01:41:46
this and it's like helping me not look like as much of an idiot. >> Crazy. It's crazy.
01:41:50
>> Can I tell you some of the funniest things that I dealt with in these calls?
01:41:54
One of them was >> me on the phone with somebody and then getting a text message from Exfinity
01:41:59
saying, "Service in your area has been restored." That really helps. >> Oh, yeah.
01:42:03
>> I had one person say, >> I kept just asking. They were like, "Oh,
01:42:09
the the appointment with the external technician is for 10 to 12 tomorrow."
01:42:12
And I was like, "Can I get any confirmation for that? Can you send me an email?" No, we're not able to do
01:42:17
that. And then one of them said, "We can do that." And I said, "Well, I haven't
01:42:21
gotten it yet." And she said, "Is your internet working?" I said, "No, the wire
01:42:26
is down across the road." And she said, "Well, you didn't get the email cuz you
01:42:29
don't have internet." And I was like, "I'm calling you on my phone." Like,
01:42:33
this is this is the point where I I tried to keep my cool for so long cuz I knew and I was just hoping someone could
01:42:39
give me a number somewhere, but then they basically just lie to me >> and like basically call me an idiot. And
01:42:45
then I just start freaking out and I was not nice. And I feel bad because it's
01:42:51
not their fault because Xfinity is using a bunch of >> labor somewhere else
01:42:56
>> as punching complete as punching bags to completely dodge any responsibility
01:43:01
which then just makes me even more mad. So honestly, anyone out there, if you have Xfinity and can change, do it
01:43:09
because that place sucks. Even though everywhere else probably sucks. But what I would give
01:43:14
>> I know what I would give for Verizon FiOS >> who are probably almost just as bad.
01:43:20
>> Yeah, Verizon as a FiOS customer. I promise you the FiOS customer service is
01:43:25
so laughable. Like the ways they have managed to screw me over, >> dude. But I have an Andrew, I have an
01:43:31
Infinity story for you that I think I told once like years ago on the podcast, but you know, we're just going to tell
01:43:36
it again because I I hate Xfinity. I was paying an insane amount of money for Infinity Gigabit. Like $80, $990 a
01:43:44
month. >> Oh, I paid freaking way more than that for their like 1,200. Yeah.
01:43:49
>> Yeah. I never ever ever got more than 100 megabytes down ever. And most of the
01:43:54
time I was in the low30s. >> Sounds like >> And uh and we would complain to Xfinity
01:43:59
every day like, why are we paying all this money if you just cannot deliver the right service? And every day they'd
01:44:04
be like, we don't know what's going on. It must be you somehow. Oh, like you
01:44:08
need to get a new router, you need to do this. We'd be like, "No, no, no, no, no.
01:44:12
Don't lie to me." And after months of this, we were talking to someone via the
01:44:16
like live chat >> at Xfinity and they go, "Hold on, give me one sec. Test your internet speed
01:44:23
now. Gigabit. >> Gigabit up. Gigabit." It was like crazy. We were like, "Wait a second. How did
01:44:28
you do that?" >> They were like, "Uh, I can't really say."
01:44:31
>> Yeah. >> And chat, >> similar story. 4 days later, internet
01:44:35
speed goes back down to 30. >> What happened? We get back on the live chat talking. We're like, "No, no, you
01:44:41
fix someone fixed it last time." They're like, "There's no way to fix it."
01:44:44
Finally, we got them to admit we texted them. You have a button on your dashboard that says, "Give us gigabit."
01:44:52
And you're just refusing to hit it because your boss said not to. And the guy goes, "Yes, period. I'm sorry.
01:44:58
Period." Ends the chat. >> Oh my god. God, >> that's similar
01:45:04
>> I not with the not with all the proof but I had a similar story briefly in
01:45:07
college I had like horrible there was like two possible service whatever providers and I'm pretty sure it was
01:45:12
Comcast was the first one and I was getting like >> and Comcast with a wig on the second one
01:45:16
yeah basically I was getting like three down or whatever and it was it kept going in and out have like internet
01:45:21
outages and I just called them and I was like cancel my service cancel it now cancel it I don't I don't even want to
01:45:26
bother like working with you just cancel it and they're like no please please
01:45:29
please we can upgrade you for free we'll that's when they start like offering
01:45:32
bargains They're like, "We'll upgrade you for a discount." I was like, "Cancel
01:45:35
it. I don't care." And they're like, "Okay, we'll just put you on the highest
01:45:38
tier plan and we won't have to change anything else." And I was like, "Fine."
01:45:42
And I hung up and immediately my internet was like 300 up and down with zero changes to price or anything else.
01:45:49
I was like, "This could have been my situation the entire time, but they hold
01:45:52
you in the little box as long as they can." >> Yeah. >> So, it's true.
01:45:56
So, real quick then I my neighbors who also are missing internet when they called them they said, "Oh, we don't see
01:46:04
any other outages. It must be something in your house, but we can't get a home
01:46:08
technician there till Wednesday." This is on Sunday while I'm screaming at
01:46:12
someone on the phone saying there's wires down and they know the they're
01:46:16
telling me there's no reported outage. Right now, I think it actually got fixed
01:46:20
and I only know that because my neighbor texted me during this podcast saying, "Hey, our internet's back up." I think
01:46:25
it might be working. Still, not a single technician has called me or done anything. If I go home and that wire is
01:46:31
on the ground, >> boy, >> I don't know what's going on. >> When I got my FIOS installed, they
01:46:36
didn't show up on like the first 3 days. They were said they were supposed to
01:46:40
show up. And I kept being like, "Hey, they said they were going to show up between these hours and they didn't."
01:46:44
And then when the guy eventually came, he's like, "Oh yeah, like if we take too
01:46:47
long in another job, we just don't come." And I was like, "But do you tell
01:46:50
anyone who tells me?" And they're like, "No, >> my bio."
01:46:53
>> Okay. my FIOS technician took 9 and a half hours to put FiOS in my house. I
01:46:59
don't know why. Like he didn't do anything. And then there's a bunch of
01:47:02
other stuff that happened while he was there that was like so crazy. I was like, "This is insane." But I will say
01:47:07
>> I got a lot of really nice tools out of it because he left like half of his
01:47:11
stuff at my apartment, including his hard hat. So I have a Verizon I have a Verizon hard hat now, which I'm like
01:47:17
really into. >> That's cool. >> Yeah. Do you know the hours they gave
01:47:20
me? 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and then say, "Someone must be home when they show up." I was like, "That is not
01:47:26
happening. You're fixing this." >> That is silly. I'm sorry. >> They So, they basically have expected me
01:47:32
to miss 3 days of work. >> Yeah. They often assume you don't have a job. They're like, "You must just be
01:47:37
home all day, right? >> You're good. You're home all day. Cool."
01:47:39
Cuz yeah, we'll show anytime. >> Honestly, you have a job. Just use the
01:47:42
internet at work, >> idiot. I mean, I guess I was thinking of the scenario where if I didn't get to
01:47:48
talk to the power person to know that that wire down was not electrically charged.
01:47:53
>> At this point, I would have had to call the fire department probably to come get
01:47:55
it. But like >> I asked every single person I talked to like, >> "Is this is this wire dangerous?" And
01:48:03
they were usually like, "Yes, it's dangerous." I was like, "Do you think
01:48:05
you should get someone to come here right away?" And they're like, "Well, I
01:48:07
guess if maybe it's just the power or if it's just the cable line, then that
01:48:12
doesn't have electricity flowing through And I was like, "Do you trust me knowing
01:48:15
if that's the power?" I didn't tell them. I knew it was the But like I had
01:48:18
people basically telling me, "Oh, you could cross over the power line. Don't
01:48:23
worry about it." >> Damn. >> Which seems like an insane liability for
01:48:26
>> So, is your car not in the driveway? >> I've I knew it was safe, so I've rolled
01:48:30
over it since then. But it's uh But that's only because of the power people.
01:48:34
But I wasn't telling them that. I was trying to get them toing clean up a wire
01:48:37
or actually show up. >> Well, I feel it. >> I'm titling this the Crash Out episode.
01:48:42
Thanks for thanks for tuning in to our crash out our weekly crash out podcast. >> The one where everyone crashes out.
01:48:48
>> Um you Xfinity. >> Seriously, like I I >> plus one. >> Yes.
01:48:53
>> And you Sam Alman too. >> While we're at it, >> I don't like any of your Ferraris
01:48:59
either. >> And your binnacle. >> I need Adam to say Adam, who are you mad
01:49:05
at? >> Ring >> right now. WhatsApp. But that's a story for another.
01:49:09
>> I thought he was gonna say all of you for making this an impossible episode to
01:49:12
edit afterwards. >> That too. >> Wait, what did WhatsApp do really quick?
01:49:17
>> Bro, I can't get into this right now. Tune in next week. >> WhatsApp.
01:49:22
>> Subscribe to find out what WhatsApp did. >> Um, really quickly related to WhatsApp.
01:49:28
Really quickly, there's a funny thing that happened where uh do you guys remember when chatbt was in WhatsApp
01:49:33
randomly all of a sudden? >> Mhm. Well, it was >> I don't remember.
01:49:37
>> Well, it was >> okay. I only remember Meta AI being in WhatsApp. >> Also, also Chad JBT was and then Meta
01:49:44
was like, "Oh, no." And then they took it out because they they were like,
01:49:48
"Nobody else can have AI AIS in WhatsApp now." >> Isn't that like anti-competitive or
01:49:52
something? >> Yeah. And then the European Commission very quickly was like, "Uh-uh. Uh-uh."
01:50:00
And now they are passing legislation to force Meta to allow AI other. >> No, they're saving our asses about
01:50:07
everything. Greenland, >> come on. A lot of stuff. >> Competent government is crazy.
01:50:13
>> It's crazy. Anyway, it would be great. >> Come get your boy Xfinity over here. We
01:50:17
need you at EU. >> Yeah. European Union, please come break up Comcast. Can we have the city of
01:50:25
Philadelphia somehow join the EU so that podcast is like under EU jurisdiction now? Like
01:50:31
>> that would be crazy. They've just moved it there. >> There was a Jersey, now there's New
01:50:35
Jersey. There's going to be like New Philadelphia. New Philly. >> New Philadelphia. New York.
01:50:38
>> New New York. >> It's about time for uh some trivia. >> I forgot we had trivia.
01:50:45
>> This is a crazy episode, dude. God, >> you know, I am feeling like I went a
01:50:52
little too far. Um, so because I said you Sam Alman, I'm going to change my trivia question. Feel like at a certain
01:50:59
point I got to draw the line. So, um, today's new trivia question. >> What was the answer?
01:51:03
>> The answer was 6.8 gawatt, which is >> so we can round it up to seven. So
01:51:08
that's 70% of what Sam Alman says it would take to >> cure cancer or tutor every child.
01:51:14
>> Is that with the full capacity or the 30% capacity? That's full capacity.
01:51:18
>> That's with the flux capacitor. >> That's with the flux capacity.
01:51:20
>> Very cool. Very cool. >> How that translates to gigawatt hours. I
01:51:24
I don't know. But the trivia question I do know the answer to is was inspired
01:51:29
actually by something David said earlier this episode. >> Which was about the band.
01:51:34
>> Straight line manifesto. >> No. >> Three doors down. >> Three.
01:51:37
>> You too. You too. >> You too. >> Specifically, you two is now forever
01:51:43
associated with Apple because they put that one album out. And there was a YouTube edition iPod that got sold.
01:51:50
>> That's different than the red edition though, right? >> I think
01:51:52
>> the product redu Apple >> like this. >> Yeah, homies. >> It's like Tim Cook and that guy with the
01:52:00
shoes. >> However, >> yeah, >> Samsung and you two's lineup share one
01:52:08
thing in common. What is that thing? >> What? What do you mean by lineup? That's
01:52:13
it. That's the question. Oh, >> David, I'm not going to give you the
01:52:22
answer. Stop staring at me like that. >> Yeah, I don't know anything about you
01:52:25
two, so that's going to be for me. >> What I'm really confused about is I kind
01:52:29
of thought David would nail this one. I kind of thought this was a a David a David layup.
01:52:34
>> That means it's a pun. >> I wrote down the only thing I know about
01:52:38
you two. So, >> please, I hope yours just says Bono. I just don't know anything about
01:52:47
YouTube. So, >> is that it? >> Uh uh. >> No. >> Uh Andrew,
01:52:54
>> I didn't write anything. >> All right. Uh David >> Galaxy. No. Uh
01:52:59
>> Sunday. Bloody Sunday. >> You were closest. The answer is the Edge, which is the name of the lead
01:53:05
guitarist in the band. >> That's cool. >> YouTube and the thin phone.
01:53:10
>> The S25. >> I mean, Viva Levita, you know. was listening the podcast and
01:53:15
immediately because they know a lot about YouTube, they immediately went through and they're like, "Oh yeah, the
01:53:20
Edge. I know this. They're all going to get >> You would have to both know a lot about
01:53:23
YouTube and be aware of the current lineup of Samsung Galaxy folks." >> Well, the Edge line thing has been in
01:53:28
the lineup for a very long time. Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy Note Edge. >> Note Edge.
01:53:32
>> Shout out to the Note Edge. That thing was insane. >> I didn't know that his guitarist was
01:53:36
named the Edge or that their guitarist was named the Edge. >> I thought Bono just played all of the
01:53:40
instruments. >> Is Bono his real name? Is Bono joy? >> That's gonna trigger someone. I can.
01:53:48
>> Next question. But first, quick update on the score. >> Of course.
01:53:52
>> Wait, did Marquez get that point? >> No. No. >> Okay. >> Marquez with 14. Speaking of which,
01:53:56
>> David with 16. >> Whoa. >> Andrew still carrying the one with 17.
01:54:01
>> I don't think David and I's points have changed in a very >> No, it's been a while. Just
01:54:04
>> I think No, you had a great Yeah. Yeah. Ever since you complained about not
01:54:09
getting any points, I don't think David and I have gotten any. >> It's voodoo magic.
01:54:13
>> Questions are hard. >> Okay, the next question. >> Yeah. >> In 2024, one company accidentally broke
01:54:19
the record for the most viewed YouTube video in 24 hours. What was that company?
01:54:25
>> Company. >> Was this in 2024? >> It was in 2024. >> David, can you put the put that down
01:54:31
because you keep blocking your face. Thank you. >> Sorry. >> Oh, I forgot about this.
01:54:36
>> I know. Me, too. Oh, me too. I was wondering if they would remember because
01:54:40
I completely blanked on it. >> I feel like I remember the story but not the specifics. H you know
01:54:48
>> that I'm wrong. >> Uh I didn't even write anything. >> Flip them and read. What do you got?
01:54:55
>> Write it. >> Well, >> Marquez, what'd you put? >> Uh Rockstar,
01:55:01
>> like the energy drink. >> No, the Gil accident. >> You didn't write anything?
01:55:07
I I panicked. Xfinity. He >> was just thinking about >> I put OnePlus for when um when they ran
01:55:17
Marquez's entire video as an ad. >> Oh, yeah. No, not that. That's a good
01:55:21
guess, though. >> But that was like the OnePlus 6. >> I didn't know you were such a OnePlus
01:55:23
show, Marquez. >> That was like the OnePlus 6 or something. >> Yeah, it was a while ago. It was also an
01:55:28
accidentally published trailer for something. It was a April Fool's joke that Discord did that it was a 17se
01:55:36
second video that was on loop in their servers and it accidentally crossed over the line and YouTube had to like take
01:55:43
away that. >> It was like a popup thing. So it's like it's they basically botted the views
01:55:48
because like it was embedded into 1.4 billion views in 24 hours. >> Oh my god.
01:55:54
>> I did not did not hear that story. Well, if glitch unlocked >> the worst thing Discord's ever done,
01:56:01
maybe next to this face recognition stuff is adding these stupid little pop-ups in the corner that you always
01:56:06
have to be like, I don't want to do a quest right now. Shut up. It's an ad or
01:56:10
whatever. A new feature. >> Wow. >> That kind of defines 2026. >> Yeah.
01:56:14
>> Yeah. Side quest. >> Is it an ad or a feature? >> Do a quest to find out.
01:56:20
>> It's 2026. >> Well, thank you for tuning in to the Crash Out podcast. We appreciate your
01:56:24
time. Next week we'll be crashing out about a slightly different set of things.
01:56:28
>> Yeah, >> possibly. >> WhatsApp will be on the list of course.
01:56:32
And then just keeps keep in touch with the news. Maybe we'll get an idea of what we're going to crash out to next.
01:56:37
>> If you're still here, >> kudos. >> Quadfold. >> That means we appreciate you already cuz
01:56:42
you're probably already subscribed. But if you haven't already, get subscribed.
01:56:45
See you guys in the next episode. Peace. Goodbye. >> Waveform is produced by Adamolina and
01:56:50
Ellis Roven. We're a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. And our charter music was Vain Sil.
01:57:01
>> Am I the only one in this room who has not met Reggie Watts andor knows who he
01:57:05
is? >> He was at a football player, right? No.