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[Music] yo what's good welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast people of the internet we're your hosts
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i'm marquez and i'm andrew i almost got that wrong uh today's episode uh we're going to talk about a bunch of
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stuff i kind of love that we're going to talk about the james webb space telescope first images that are sort of taken over the internet they did take
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over the internet it's not always positive things that take over the internet but a new frontier of deep space imagery is a is a beautiful thing
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to take over the internet um we also got david to sit down with dr stephanie milam of nasa to talk about some of the
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first images we're seeing out of jwst and it's fascinating so stay tuned for that um but first
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we do want to correct a little bit of our trivia from last week right we have some some nexus q fact correction yeah yeah so we got the answer wrong last week in
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our trivia wrap up shout out to at steve aguirre and at yary jalouf i believe they kindly corrected us the nexus q came out in 2012 not 2011. so andrew has
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a final score of 13 to marquez's 17 we had to take a point away from andrew and give it to marquez so now marquez won by a larger margin not not only was i wrong but you still said the correct
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answer afterwards so just like this is really kicking me when i'm down you know it's nexus q trivia you can't always you
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know hang your hat on that so i'm just happy to be getting that one right still winning on to a new season there will be
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more trivia later today um but let's talk about the uh you know over the last couple years
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we've done a lot of live events and kind of raided how they are and we had our first live event from
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nothing the new phone company and i think we have to talk about it and the phone as well um the first event was
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there uh i guess they may have had a headphones event but like we usually talk about smartphone bigger events like
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that and this was clearly their first um it was slated on was that tuesday tuesday i think and any thoughts any thoughts right off the bat uh
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my thoughts are the event was bad but you could see what they were what they were going for like they had a very casual vibe and you could see they're going for like the anti-establishment vibe the more like
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lifestyle versus more like in your face text yeah kind of thing but at the same time like when we you talk about apple
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keynotes being like the gold standard and everyone goes oh they're so corporate it's always the same people on
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stage blah blah but they are uh amazing at capturing your attention and stringing it along through new products and devices and services and features and things like that
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and this event i just didn't do that it was it was casual it was fine i'm sure nothing fans
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were going to love it either way but i think we more importantly now also have the reviews of the actual phone yes
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and i think that's what we want to go over the shining spot of the entire event was clearly when um they showed
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shop.mkbhd.com on the screen we did not know that was coming at all that caught us by surprise um but at the same time
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with how surprised we were there i realized later that that's also when they mentioned the refresh rate of the
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phone that i completely missed which to me felt like the overarching theme of this is i missed all of the specs or
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they just didn't say them i i didn't feel like i left that event knowing much more about the phone yeah
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well now we have it yeah the reviews out i guess uh this is a chance to catch up on everything you want to know literally
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ask me anything i've had the phone for over a week i've been using it daily and liking it liking a lot of it not
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liking some parts of it i want to start at price because to me that is how like i can
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form my opinion on this through the price and it's the thing i've been dying to know the most for this i think most
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people do so just a precursor it doesn't initially look to be going on sale in the u.s so
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this is uh great british pounds we have our starting prices 399 great british pounds very similar to us dollars but
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that's the official number um that by the way will only be in black and that will be the eight gigs of ram 128 gig
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version only in black only in only in black that yeah so they showed off star wars very confused already shut off the
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white one everywhere you can't get that at the base price 399 great british pounds baseline nothing phone okay you
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can bump up to eight gigs of ram 256 gigs of storage for 50 extra pounds and for 100 extra pounds 12 gigs of ram and 256 fees of storage okay so we've got 399 449 4.99 so all under 500 correct um
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i think that is under 500 is a great range to be in um it's still you know i call we call this mid-range i think it's really safe to call this mid-range i know we've argued about that yeah
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people have argued about that a lot but this is mid-range to budget um it is clearly not
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an upper high-end flagship and it is also to me clearly not going for the lowest
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possible price it is firmly in the mid-range and i think it's smart i think they literally just decided to target a
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price and build a phone around that price for sure which i say in the review yeah so um in terms of the the chipset
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we knew that already but i'm trying where where would you say the sacrifices are made in terms of this because if you
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have a price under 500 and we already know that they focus so much on design and the glyph lights on the back and
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stuff like that that's going to take a chunk out of your margins right there so if they obviously had to
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sacrifice some other stuff sure besides just the chipset which we already know yeah okay so the chipset is the this is
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the snapdragon 778 g plus they worked specifically with qualcomm on it to enable things like wireless charging
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reverse wireless charging but it is an older chipset it's not the new snapdragon 7 gen1 but i think it'll
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argue it's a more stable reliable chipset the the sacrifice if you want to use that word is really that it's it doesn't have the headroom of the ultra high end the big game big title gaming
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stuff the like heavy multitasking i still think it's a very smooth phone most of the time which is really nice and you do see that a lot in mid-range phones around this price so the chip
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isn't really letting me down in any way yeah if i was expecting a flagship this wouldn't be that but it is it is pretty
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good it is pretty good yeah i mean looking at these specs some of the other things i'm seeing um i mean you still
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have 45 milliamp hour battery right um 4500 it is 33 watt charging required and what is not great it's it turns it actually turns out to be fine i know the number is low on paper but i found myself like
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not like annoyed with how slow to me when it comes to fast charging i would argue it's the thing i care about the least um if this has wireless charging and even slow wireless charging
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i will be topped off pretty much the entire day through that by just having one wireless charger at my desk and one
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on my nightstand same no part of me is ever worried about this yeah i think so it has 15 watt wire wireless charging
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yeah that's totally fine it's fine i'm not worried about that yeah um 45 milliamp hour battery is fantastic oh
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pretty good yeah i think that's a great size so it's a six and a half inch screen i i talked about it in the review
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video but my battery life is typically like one normal day like i end the day with less than 20 battery getting into the lower teens so i'm like not quite comfortably ending the day
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with a full like one full battery but i don't have like 40 or anything like that okay so it's a one-day battery um
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yeah it's just it's not anything to write home about this is the thing in the review i have a couple things closer
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to the end that are not really that great or that bad the speakers like they get kind of loud but
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they're not that great like not worth writing home about yeah um the battery life is another one of those things it's it's not like super fast charging or anything like it's it's fine but it's
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okay you don't want to miss on paper so at least it's not a miss um and there's other things like haptics
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that were to me around average like not bad they're definitely not the soft mushy bad
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vibration motor but they were a little bit awkward with typing on the keyboard and a little bit much sometimes so
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somewhere in the middle okay so it's just not that like perfectly fine polish that we're seeing in the thousand dollar
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smartphones out there um okay i i ultimately i think that sounds pretty solid there's one thing he mentioned in there that i was kind of confused about and this is carl pay talking about how
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it's connecting better to third-party uh features i guess i forget if you said apps or features and he mentions like connecting to your tesla and just like kind of toss that out there without
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anything and we all just said isn't that just what the app does yeah so there's a couple interesting ecosystem things that
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they threw out there now nothing makes headphones already and so you would expect the nothing headphones to work
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the best work great with uh the nothing phone but the same thing kind of happens when
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you plug in air pods or when you connect airpods via bluetooth it puts them up in
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the quick settings and it tries to like act like they're part of the ecosystem which is kind of cool
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now the tesla thing uh i have a tesla i have the app installed i signed in it didn't work it's in the experimental features section but they were basically showing that you could also add like
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vehicle controls into your phone's quick settings so if i wanted to unlock my car from outside you know 100 feet away in
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the parking lot i could open the app and do that but now it could be like one swipe down in the quick settings that would be cool but it didn't work it
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didn't work it didn't work yeah so cool idea but yeah i'm still waiting for that i also wonder
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do you know this is a random question but do you know what your quick settings are off the top of your head yeah i
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always have internet like wi-fi connectivity out there i always have auto rotate flashlight and typically
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bluetooth is the last one and the airplane mode is a swipe away i was gonna say like would you wind up
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replacing any of those if you had the option for your tesla there or would you be okay with that at this point you're swiping twice yeah and then how far away
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is that from going into the app you know i might put something like uh starting the charge um in the quick settings
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basically the only thing i really use my phone for is the bluetooth key so when i walk up to the cart on x all the other
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remote stuff i manage i was gonna dive into the app anyway to like change the charge limit or like tell it to wait
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till off peak hours to charge stuff like that so yeah i might have added that it was
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just like it would have been cool if it worked and i could actually try it but it just didn't it didn't have you tried
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it with airpods i haven't actually there was did you see the photo going around of how in the event it showed carl's
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airpods connected to around maybe you know everyone was making fun of him but maybe that was the ultimate
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easter egg that he knew people were going to i think he's just appealing to what he knows most people have and i
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want you know i i have to give credit here that is not something i recognized um or did they mention that in the
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keynote or is that just something in the reviewer's guide they no they went over a little bit of the like ecosystem thing
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okay you can build your own ecosystem i i think it's cool that they're open to working with other companies like we
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don't see that a lot with a lot of other smartphones or at least like i mean clearly i'm sure nothing would prefer
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fuse nothing headphones but being a little more open into the default system settings of
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accepting other things i think is this kind of i think i would characterize it as nothing doing extra work on their end
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to make it look like they're working with other companies okay i don't think apple is giving them any sort of special features or access
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well yeah but but i appreciate that there's a company that recognizes there are other companies yeah out there true
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cool that's true um one more thing to wrap this up i i think learning all of this specifically and
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after all that i'm pretty proud of my um my assumption that this felt like the updated beats headphones of smartphones would do you agree with that now looking back yeah okay so here's how i ended the
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video okay um nothing started with a pair of headphones and our eventual conclusion about them was all right they sound okay they're not particularly focused on performance but they do have
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a really distinctive design so like solid user experience but it's focused on design
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and then they came out with a phone and it was the exact same story not really too focused on performance but a pretty
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solid user experience and a really distinctive design so to me that's the story of the phone that's
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kind of also the beats story but then when you look at the rest of like all right now what's nothing going to make
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they can keep building their ecosystem and then tablet is but i went to like is it a smart
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speaker whatever else they decide to make it will probably it will probably be along the same lines probably won't
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be focused on specs or performance but it'll have a solid user experience but it better have a distinctive cool
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design and that's what nothing's all about what would you if you could pick what nothing would do next what would it
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be in that mantra i think those are the two i was most curious about actually smart speaker
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would be kind of interesting i think tablet would be cool tablet's hard i think smart speaker
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enabled like um transparent design speakers so sweet that'd be dope i would like to see that i think now i want that considering how good the headphones looked and headphones really
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typically don't look that good i would be very curious maybe maybe they make over ear headphones or something who knows over here would be cool i want the
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nothing home one that would be sick okay i dig that well i'm sure carl's listening so
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i want i want a stake in that thank you you're welcome if you're interested in like all
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the rest of the deeper stuff about this phone like the camera yeah like the uh performance the 120 hertz display it's
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not ltpo but it's 60 to 120 hertz all that stuff definitely watch the full review it should be up by the time
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you're listening to this so check that out for sure but that's the nothing phone it's finally out and in
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the real world and exists and we can we can stop making punches i'm so happy i don't have to like accidentally make the pun every time it makes me very excited for the future i like how like
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half an hour ago you were like we're gonna go talk about nothing's event and how they did nothing i just put my head down i didn't walk to
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the podcast studio after that yeah um all right let's do the first trivia question of
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season two season two so the score is officially zero zero yeah so how do you wanna start this who gets the first yeah
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hold up a number behind your back one of us guesses it i don't know if there's a better way to we could do that we could do that later when we do the answers
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yeah i was gonna say the answer's gotta wait for later okay all right but season two begins with new music so
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what was ask.com originally known as um okay i remember that i was gonna say i hope i'm not showing my age the old search engines okay i have some
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old search engine stories too but we'll get to that later okay all right we'll be right back
00:15:13
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available within 24 hours that's z-o-c-d-o-c dot com slash waveform zocdoc.com waveform hey guys just a heads up this interview is very visually oriented we tried to
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make it so we were explaining the images for you audio listeners out there if you have an opportunity whether it's right
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now or when you park your car or something like that definitely look up the james webb space telescope images
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because they're freaking amazing and if you're not already using them as your wallpaper you probably will be soon
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so um thank you for coming on today can you start off by stating your name and what you do at
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nasa sure i'm stephanie milam i'm the deputy project scientist for planetary science on the james webb space telescope awesome how long have you been working on jwst for about 10 years now
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um it's been a long time that's why does it feel crazy to have it finally start taking photos up there um it's it is such an amazing feeling to
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finally get images down and know that science is beginning um it's been a long time coming so getting to this point has it's such a relief and also it's extremely exciting
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yeah awesome awesome um well today uh we did a prior podcast with you guys actually about jwst and how it works and how it was when it was going to go up and what it was going to take pictures
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of and all that stuff so this is sort of a follow-up kind of podcast that covers
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the first photos that it took um so kind of wanted to go through all of those and have you maybe explain like
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what we're seeing why it's important all of that kind of stuff absolutely um so i sort of figured that maybe we would go through the images as they were presented by nasa on the presentation
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okay so the first one is um gonna be that deep field photo yeah i um i love this photo um i understand why this was the first one released um
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letting the president actually release it um because this photo or this image in and of itself actually just completely just demonstrates what the
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james webb space telescope was designed and built to do um we set out to study the first stars
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and galaxies um really study and probe that you know infant era of of the universe and what you can see in this image is
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the first step towards approaching that that limit uh we see what you see primarily in the in the the main image is there's a series of galaxies um sort of the bright white
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ones kind of you know streaked across the the center of the image um and these galaxies are
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so large and so massive they're actually acting like a lens and so they're pulling the light from all the distant
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galaxies behind it um up to a more visible realm and so that's why some of these galaxies look like they're actually being pulled and smeared or streaked across the image it's because
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they're they're being pulled the light is actually being pulled in that manner um so this is something you know
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einstein told us that was going to happen and we see it all the time and um what you can see in the web image is a
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perfect demonstration of what what galactic lensing is actually all about okay so that's cosmic lensing or galactic lensing right yeah and just to help listeners and viewers
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understand that's basically like there are galaxies that are so massive that their gravity is pulling the light from
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the galaxies behind them absolutely awesome awesome and um so yeah for audio listeners there's like we we showed a deep field
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from hubble in the prior episode and there's like all of these galaxies with there's red ones that are being
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red-shifted and there's there's stars that have like these insane um what do you call like that the brightest star near the center that has like that almost like christmas star kind of look
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well yeah that is one of the most defining ways to find stars in these images um so the
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lights just being dispersed in a way it's called the point spread function so it's because we have a hexagonal mirror
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the light gets um kind of dispersed in that that star asterisk asterisk looking um configuration so that's that's a telltale sign that you're saying stars
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okay and those are stars compared to the other shapes that are mostly galaxies yes yes
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and one of the most amazing parts about this image is um if you download the high resolution image and i i highly
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encourage you to do so just start zooming in um and you're gonna see that every one of these tiny little dots
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going across this image is completely a resolved galaxy we can see the structure
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of the galaxies some of them we can even see the star formation actually happening in them um it is
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absolutely astonishing the resolution clarity as well as the detail that we're getting out of all of this um this image is it's mind-blowing to me
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and if you look at the previous hubble image compared to the james webb space telescope's image of this the same field
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um you'll just be blown away by first of all again the clarity but then also just
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like span across the image and see how many new things have appeared from the james webb telescope
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um so we're we're now seeing more distant galaxies we have galaxies that are over 13 billion years um the light
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is actually 13 billion over 13 billion years old um so it took it that long to actually
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reach us here um in our solar system yeah that's something i was going to ask like compare we're going to
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show the comparison of the hubble photo versus the jwst photo what are the biggest advantages uh
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coming from jwst i assume it's from the um infrared and near infrared spectrum yeah
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absolutely so what yeah what are we seeing here that's so um having an infrared telescope gives
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us access to light that has been actually shifted or stretched to longer and longer wavelengths um this is uh
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because the galaxy or the universe is expanding and so that light um actually has to travel a very long distance and since it's actually being traveling away from us it actually gets stretched
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longer and longer to longer wavelengths so that's why we have an infrared telescope is for that specific reason of
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trying to access these really early galaxies that had tremendous amounts of distance to
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actually get to us to actually study we have an extremely large telescope and that's so that we can get that that angular resolution that that spectacular clarity across these images as well
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um the colors actually show you the the distances as well that gives you that's a lot of information not only on the
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distance but also on the composition it lets us know if they're really dusty or if they're primarily you know young
00:23:23
stars um there's a lot that we can of information that we get out of this um all of these details everything from the color shape um these crazy you know smeared looking
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ones versus the very resolved ones um and then if we start looking at the spectra which we can actually take of
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each of these galaxies that tells us how far away they actually are and gives us a lot more information
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in the spectra just uh to explain that to the listeners that's like this spectroscopy right that's like the
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composition of the galaxies right based on the wavelengths of light sort of the fingerprints of atoms and
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molecules and by doing that we're we're actually analyzing the the certain wavelengths of light that would
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be indicative of those fingerprints and so what we're hoping to find with the first stars and galaxies they don't have
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a lot of um former um stellar material in them right so they're only the hydrogen and helium from the big bang um so as we start looking at spectra of
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these these really old galaxies um we're hoping to stop seeing things like oxygen
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and nitrogen and neon in them um because then we'll know that we're actually seeing the first stars in galaxies um
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whereas as we have shown in the spectra from some of these uh galaxies um with the first image um we are seeing some of those those more evolved atoms
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um which is suggesting that we're not even there yet and we're already at 13.1 billion years back
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so that's just crazy to think that that amount of reprocessed material is already forming in galaxies
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um at 13.1 billion years ago so the first couple hundred million years of the universe
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so if uh if the original stars only had helium and hydrogen in them where do all
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the other atoms come from so it comes from a process called nucleosynthesis so stars as they get
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really really hot those those individual mole or atoms actually start fusing together and they form heavier and heavier atoms and so that's why we we expect the older or the
00:25:35
second generation or third generation galaxies to have more and more of that atomic material that we'll see in the
00:25:41
spectra so more and more heavy atoms um so the early ones should only have that that very pristine hydrogen and helium awesome has this photo in particular
00:25:53
exposed anything that we didn't know because of the hubble photo that suddenly we know more about or is it just kind of like a higher resolution version and we're going to be pointing it at other
00:26:04
stuff and figure that out later so um there's there's a lot of things that we've pulled out from this image
00:26:10
compared to the hubble um one just because now we're at infrared wavelengths so we can see more galaxies
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um but also with our spectra we have access now to um really understanding the dynamics of each of these galaxies as well as the composition and so that's giving us a lot more
00:26:28
insight we haven't done a full obvious scientific analysis because we wanted to put out something beautiful and spectacular and kind of gave it a first look just so
00:26:40
that we could explain some of the the key details that are going on in this image but i promise you people are
00:26:46
going to go back and re-observe this multiple times and try to go deeper and deeper and really dig into the details
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um across this entire image because there's thousands of galaxies already in there and so and these photos were only
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taken in june right they were just yeah it was just a couple of weeks ago so it's crazy to think you
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know how quickly we're getting our data and how fantastic it is and how much information is already embedded in these
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first five images i mean it's it's graduate students thesis work you know it's a yeah exceptional amount of material you know yeah yeah
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i don't want to spend too much longer on this image just because we got more to go through but um how long did this take
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to to capture compared to hubble so um each filter was about a two hour integration and so we have i think a total of about 12 hours to to acquire
00:27:39
this image um which is insane because hubble's um comparable deep deep deep field was weeks worth of time and so we have a
00:27:49
blink of an eye effectively with the james webb space telescope compared to what we've done wow hubble telescope for
00:27:55
considerable depths into the into the universe um that is that is crazy yeah so it's
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it's um it's very intimidating yeah yeah awesome well i think next um we should look at is it stefan's quintet or stephen's
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stephens stefan's quintet yeah seven's quintet um can you tell us a little bit about this photo for for
00:28:21
the audio listeners it's basically it looks like cut like three things of almost like jellyfish if you've seen like jellyfish in aquarium it's complete blackness and then there's these three
00:28:33
giant blobs of pink kind of swirling around each other right so it's actually five galaxies
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total um the one that's kind of on the left that looks a lot more um resolved i guess you can see all the stars and the clouds within it that one is actually a lot closer to us than the
00:28:53
other ones it just happens to be in a line of sight that makes it um well an absolutely stunning image but
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kind of makes it looks like look like it's in closer proximity but um it's actually uh much closer to us than the
00:29:06
other ones um and then as you said the other jellyfish um in the sea there uh those
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are a series of merged galaxies so as galaxies um the way they grow is they actually merge together they start
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collapsing and merging together so you have a lot of really dynamic process going on in these
00:29:24
images the top one is is extremely bright um especially when you go to the longer wavelengths um and if you look at the miri version of
00:29:35
that image you see almost like a a very bright uh striped feature going across the
00:29:42
center of that structure but you also see this nice diffuse swirly um pattern which is all the material that's being blown from the merger
00:29:52
um lit up from all the the energy that's happening um but it's an active galactic
00:29:58
nuclei so this is a really extreme um region with a black hole in the center of it and what you're seeing in the the mid-infrared image there's almost like these
00:30:09
fingers of dust and gas that are coming off of it and that's actually the material being pulled into the black
00:30:15
pole so there's all kinds of crazy detail in just that particular merged galaxies um on the lower part the lower one on the the lower right one
00:30:28
you can see all kinds of structure and detail as well including um some of the star forming regions
00:30:34
that are within the galaxy um it this is absolutely a fantastic and gorgeous image um the mid-infrared image with the colors is my favorite image out of all the ones that we've released
00:30:47
um i like to think of it as gems of the universe uh because it's so brilliantly colored
00:30:53
and they did such a fantastic job with this image mm-hmm makes me want to be into these galactic astronomers
00:30:59
yeah so these are all galaxies that are they're merging together how exactly does that process work do they just like
00:31:06
hit each other and then or do they you can sort of see like the the one in the lower right
00:31:12
it almost looks like it's swirling around they're swirling around each other in a weird way yeah how does that process so
00:31:18
they kind of eat each other and merge together um so this is it it all comes down to gravity right um they start pulling once they get in
00:31:30
close enough proximity they'll start pulling each other together um and that that's how they become more
00:31:35
and more massive and this is you know an extreme thing that we we're just kind of
00:31:41
scratching the surface of now and something that the james webb space telescope is really going to provide a
00:31:46
lot of insight and detail as we get further into the mission and we get more and more of these images
00:31:52
um there's a lot of information that we can gain with all the wavelengths all the instruments of the james webb space
00:31:58
telescope so understanding the near-infrared spectra and imagery and moving all the way through the mid-infrared where we can actually see things like the molecular hydrogen lines
00:32:09
and understand what's going on as far as the chemic chemical properties the dynamics um you know all the other physical parameters that we can pull out of this
00:32:19
information so it's fine and the lighter like hazy areas that we see being thrown around
00:32:25
that is that like cosmic dust yeah a lot of it's dust um stars um large clouds of gas and dust so one of our other images is in our own galaxy of a cloud
00:32:37
of gas and dust those are the same types of clouds that they have in these other galaxies and that's where stars are
00:32:43
being formed hmm okay amazing cool i love this photo as well i think that a lot of people should take a look at them again like the last episode if you're listening to this in the car once you're done with
00:32:55
your drive take a look at the website and look at these because they're amazing um okay i think next we can move on to
00:33:04
let's do the spectra the spectrum one because i think that was the third one that you guys unveiled yesterday um
00:33:11
this one is a little bit different it's not an actual photo but it's actually just spectra so we talked about this in
00:33:17
the last episode it's basically looking at an exoplanet and figuring out the types of compounds that are on that exoplanet um so you want to talk about this expo planet a little bit
00:33:30
watts 96 is a sort of a stellar a sun-like star um and it has this extremely large
00:33:37
planet that orbits about every three and a half um earth years so it's it's going around very very fast it's extremely large planet it's about
00:33:49
the size of jupiter but it is um it has a really really puffy atmosphere so it's only about half the density of jupiter and so is this a super puff is this considered a super puff yeah it's a
00:34:03
super puff we talked about this the last episode because it's a fun name yeah yeah i like that um so this planet is um it was an ideal
00:34:15
candidate for our first look to really see what kind of spectra we could do because we knew it had this extremely
00:34:20
puffy atmosphere and we knew that it was going to be a pretty hot atmosphere considering how close it is to its star
00:34:27
um it's it's within the the distance of mercury from our sun so it's really really close and it's going around
00:34:33
really really really fast and it's big and puffy so um we had a nice first look and got to
00:34:40
really test the limits of what our um nearest instrument that was provided by the canadian space agency could do as
00:34:47
far as studying exoplanet spectra so what you're seeing is actually um the the fingerprint pattern as i was talking about earlier of water
00:35:00
in the spectra and anybody any layman can actually look at this image and and say yes there's hills and valleys and
00:35:07
clearly there's you know peaks at up at certain wavelengths and then there's definitely wells at other wavelengths
00:35:14
and what that's suggesting um as far as the spectre goes is that there are actual indications of water vapor um
00:35:21
in this planet so this is um excellent uh level of detail for a first look of an exoplanet spectra so what we're hoping to do um oh
00:35:33
and i should also say that this is the longest wavelength spectra that we've ever been able to acquire of an
00:35:39
exoplanet as well so when you get to the right-hand side of this squiggly lines um that's actually
00:35:47
information that's never been acquired on an exoplanet's atmosphere so um the james webb space telescope has access to longer wavelengths than what we've ever been able to study in these planets and
00:35:58
that's that's a really key point um with the james webb space telescope because as you go to longer wavelengths we get
00:36:05
access to other other very interesting molecules carbon monoxide carbon dioxide methane these are the kinds of things that we hope to be looking for in the planets around other stars just so that we can
00:36:19
understand what their atmospheres actually are actually made of and maybe some of them might look like earth's um
00:36:26
maybe some of them will look like jupiter or maybe something really crazy like you know the atmosphere on titan
00:36:32
for example so um it's going to be a crazy epic of you know studying these atmospheres and planets around other stars and this first look was a great
00:36:44
demonstration of what we're going to be doing we'll be right back with the jwst interview but of course since we're
00:36:50
about to take a break let's get into one more trivia question all right so apple has a long history of using other oem's displays what was the brand
00:37:01
name of the technology powering sony's displays used in apple crt monitors starting in 1987. that went from a like i definitely know this too
00:37:12
i'm definitely gonna figure it out after the break it had an arc to it we'll be right back this episode of waveform is brought to you by wealthfront so if your cash is
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wealthfront.comwave this no-brainer good news has been paid endorsement from wealthfront do we have a next target for
00:38:25
an exoplanet that we've been wanting to point this thing at for a while everybody has their own list um i know
00:38:33
one of the one of the hot topics in exoplanet scientists are an exoplanet science that
00:38:40
um folks have been talking about wanting to look at with the james webb space telescope for years actually since the
00:38:45
discovery with the spitzer space telescope is the trappist system um so this uh particular planetary
00:38:52
system has a number of planets in orbits that are in what we call the habitable zone
00:38:58
um so they're far enough from their star where they can actually have liquid water and the interaction of the star
00:39:06
you know what kind of star it is how hot that star is that distance being in this habitable zone makes some really
00:39:12
interesting planets and there's a number of them that are actually in this region in that system so really understanding
00:39:19
what their atmospheres look like and maybe seeing if they have something that's of
00:39:24
particular interest and intrigue yeah and i'm assuming there's a committee that decides like what to point this
00:39:31
thing at and um a committee is sort of not the right word what we have is a panel of experts
00:39:38
that review um so everyone in the scientific community can write uh their proposal to
00:39:45
observe any given target that they want to observe and they have to justify it um you know what the science is with
00:39:52
how much time it takes with the james webb telescope how much what instruments they're going to use um and all of these proposals come in
00:39:59
once a year and then we have a panel that's established of of the community members themselves
00:40:06
and they review these proposals and then they prioritize and rank them and that's just based on what they think the best
00:40:12
science is at that time um so we do this every single year because science is obviously changing every single year there's new planets being discovered there's other objects that
00:40:25
are being discovered there's follow-up observations you want to do from previous epics there's all kinds of
00:40:31
things that we want to do so having an annual cadence gives enough diversity of the science program to
00:40:39
allow you know the science to evolve naturally um so it's all peer-reviewed and um i guarantee you the trappist-1 system is
00:40:49
definitely on the list of um exoplanets to be studied awesome okay well i think we should move on to the southern ring nebula um to try to
00:41:01
explain this one to people i would say there's kind of two versions can you explain what those two versions
00:41:06
are there's one that is has a blue center and then a red outer area and then there's like a little
00:41:13
white dot in the center and then there's like a negative of that where it's red in the center with a blue yeah it almost looks like a
00:41:19
to pull it up so i'm talking about the right thing oh yeah um yeah uh the eight burst nebula an expanding cloud of gas surrounding a
00:41:31
dying star so i guess what this would be is like um the infrared spectra that we're reading
00:41:38
is showing the gas that's being pushed away from the star as it's dying exactly um so i i really hate the phrase planetary
00:41:49
nebula and i i do not like that they call dying stars planetary nebula because it's a total misnomer and it
00:41:56
it's very confusing to people that aren't um in the biz so uh what you're actually seeing is
00:42:03
what um what you just said it is a star that is dying um so what happens is um if we have a
00:42:09
star like our own sun as it gets older and older it eventually turns into something that we call a
00:42:15
giant a red giant or a blue giant and when that happens it's it's because the the star is now um reached a phase that it's no longer burning hydrogen and helium fusing hydrogen and helium to
00:42:27
make um new atoms it starts making even heavier atoms so now it starts burning heavier and heavier elements and that that gives off a lot of energy and all that energy now it has it starts the
00:42:40
star starts expanding and when it expands all that that material of the star starts cooling down so you get this big dusty and gaseous cloud almost that
00:42:51
that encases that star um and so this is where they turn red because all of that dust makes the light now a much more obscured and it makes the star appear red and cooler
00:43:03
um once it gets to a certain phase where it no longer has where the the that now sort of shroud of dust and gas around the star it's it's
00:43:14
constantly expanding and eventually it expands so much that now the center star has stopped doing its fusion and it
00:43:21
becomes a white dwarf so it's a really tiny teeny teeny tiny hot star and that hot stars are radiating so bright that it now lights up all of that material that was just shed from the
00:43:32
star and so that's what you're seeing here in a planetary nebula so all these rings that you see in both images are
00:43:40
actually the old shells of material that have been pushed away from that star that's dying
00:43:46
um and it's emitting in all these beautiful colors because now the centers are sort of lighting it all up and
00:43:52
making it a radiant so the colors um the red that you're seeing here um on the left-hand image
00:43:57
the near-infrared image that's all the gas and dust that's remnant um sort of atomic material
00:44:04
and a lot of dust and grains and what's fantastic if you blow up this image and look in any of that structure that red
00:44:11
fluffy sort of structure on the outside it's crazy amounts of details you can see
00:44:16
almost um like streaks of light that are passing through each of these clumps of gas and dust um
00:44:24
you can see all kinds of different dynamic processes happening just with your own eyes even not even knowing what
00:44:30
they are you can actually physically see that happening which is 2 000 light years away too right yeah yeah um and it's huge actually um these
00:44:42
things um span huge distances across the sky um sometimes you can even see planetary
00:44:48
nebula um with with simple backyard kind of telescopes um they're they're massive
00:44:55
oh yeah they're fantastic to actually try and observe for amateur astronomers so
00:45:00
you should definitely try to do that um what's really cool about the mid infrared image so the one that's sort of
00:45:06
red in the middle with the blue on the outside is you can now see that this is a binary star
00:45:11
um so we knew that there was a dying star and we knew that there was a binary system but resolving that second star
00:45:17
was something that was always challenging to do and now they're right next to each other
00:45:22
i'm sorry there were two stars that are right next to each other and that's why we you shot
00:45:27
it in the infrared and also near infrared so you can see the difference yeah yeah so the red star the one on the
00:45:34
left um in the mid infrared image so in the one with the red center there's you can see the two stars so the red one on the left is the one that's dying um and then it has a companion star
00:45:47
that's the white one on the right and it's um so this is a really cool um demonstration of the capability of the james webb space telescope not only with its wavelengths but also with it that
00:46:00
beautiful resolution that we get so we can actually see and resolve things like this now yeah that's awesome so the the
00:46:06
one on the left is basically emitting a different wavelength of light as the one on the right correct and that's why you
00:46:13
shoot in both of them interesting okay how close are these stars together are they like going to fall into each other
00:46:20
i don't know how close they are um [Music] i don't know that i have that information um they're they're not i don't think they're gonna collapse or anything like that it they're
00:46:31
it's a binary system that's fairly stable so they they okay we are pretty happy with where they are
00:46:38
cool yeah these are there's an awesome set of images um okay i think the last one which is
00:46:44
probably the one that everyone has been sharing all over social media and possibly
00:46:49
i don't want to say objectively the most beautiful one but definitely a very very beautiful one
00:46:55
um uh the karina nebula which is another thing that we have also shot in hubble correct yeah yeah so um the hubble image of this is something
00:47:06
that um everybody is probably familiar with and probably seen we have a really large image of um the eagle nebula and
00:47:13
then this is one tiny little blip of that huge image that we've acquired with hubble so if you look at the hubble image compared to this the resolution is nothing near um this level of detail
00:47:27
and yeah the things that you can see with the james webb space telescope image is
00:47:33
it's mind-blowing there's so much we don't know about the process of star formation and
00:47:39
planet formation and that is all the more evident just by looking at this image and its first the web first glimpse of a star forming region um yeah there's crazy structure you can
00:47:52
see so what you're seeing is um a giant cloud of gas and dust um and this is where stars and planets
00:47:59
are born um and are they born in that because the the dust just like attracts itself to
00:48:06
each other yeah yeah there's dynamic processes that sort of push through these clouds and causes you know
00:48:13
turbulence to happen and once that turbulence disturbs up a nice dense region of gas and dust it'll cause it to start collapsing on itself um sort of initiate that that key
00:48:26
process which is something we don't really know a lot about so and hopefully something we'll learn more from this from the james webb space telescope there's all kinds of really cool things
00:48:37
though so the top of the image where it almost looks like a night sky um that's sort of blue with a lot of stars there's
00:48:44
a that's where a lot of young stars have already formed and they've already pooled all
00:48:49
their nearby gas and dust and are probably developing their own planetary systems
00:48:56
the cloud and the or the mountainous region is where all the cloud and the dust is actually starting to form new
00:49:02
stars and you can see all kinds of dynamic processes happening so if you look just past the center sort of
00:49:10
mountain peak with a bright red star in it go to the next mountain peak and you see
00:49:15
a yellowish golden sort of star and it has what looks like a feathery hat coming off the top of it and then the opposite of that hat there's something sort of dynamic and arcing
00:49:27
going into the cloud itself and that's actually a young star that's forming and it
00:49:33
when it starts collapsing all the the material that it's uh using to form its star
00:49:38
it has to get rid of a lot of its internal energy and that often happens as these outflows and so what you're
00:49:46
actually seeing is really really cool that we can actually resolve this with this with this image
00:49:51
is on the top where it looks like it's puffing through the top of the mountain it's outflow is actually pushing all
00:49:57
that gas and dust out of the cloud and we can see that happening so it's like tufting up out of this mountain and then
00:50:04
the opposite jet is actually pushing into the cloud and you can see the arcs and things forming because it basically just hits like a wall um and so all that energy is now just
00:50:15
colliding with another dense region of gas and dust which will probably be the initiation and trigger for other star
00:50:22
formation to start happening in that region wow and i'm assuming that like this is going to look the same to
00:50:28
us for the rest of humanity right we can't like point this at this in 100 years and it's going to look different
00:50:34
um we might see some dynamic things happening um especially with these outflow type
00:50:41
events uh there's probably some opportunity to see some dynamic um activity happening um but it is a pretty slow process
00:50:53
compared to you know human life um yeah but you know that's the funny thing about astronomy is you know we're barely a
00:51:04
a blink of an eye and and all of the things that are happening across the universe um yeah but yeah this is definitely one
00:51:11
of the most beautiful images of all time and i'm so excited to see what we're going to do with the rest of star formation
00:51:19
i think half the internet is using this photo as a wallpaper right now i'm using it as my as my laptop
00:51:25
wallpaper right now and my phone wallpaper so yeah yeah so yeah wow was there a reason that we pointed at the korean nebula is that was it just sort of as a way to show webb's
00:51:38
superiority versus hubble for this kind of imaging um so there was a lot well what we wanted to do with these um first images was really demonstrate all the
00:51:50
science themes that we have for the james webb space telescope and show the community and the public that we can actually achieve our scientific goals
00:52:00
um and within these themes with with the james webb space telescope and a lot of emphasis was put on um looking at objects that we've already
00:52:10
observed before because there's already a little bit you know some foundation of knowledge from these regions or objects
00:52:17
but also if we have things like hubble imagery that's something that is easier to understand and relate to as far as
00:52:25
when you want to demonstrate the differences between the hubble telescope and the james webb space
00:52:31
telescope um so what i will say is the ones that were shown were um just a select few uh they actually observed multiple objects
00:52:42
within each of these um science themes and they just chose the best ones um but there's more out there um and all that information is getting released as we speak
00:52:54
so we'll see other of the the other observations of potential early release observations uh for the james webb space telescope that will be coming out um i'm sure the scientific community will be on it and
00:53:08
um ready to start revealing all the the hidden secrets that we've had on the project for the last few weeks
00:53:15
um but it's really exciting and and i'm i'm so glad they chose this one because i think it's it's absolutely stunning
00:53:23
yeah how often can we expect to see new images coming out um well initially there's going to be probably quite a few um just because
00:53:34
like i said we were collecting all of these these data as each of our instrument modes became available on
00:53:41
once they if you were following the where's web and we were checking off each instrument um so some of these images we were able
00:53:48
to start acquiring that data pretty early um so a number of weeks ago um some of them we
00:53:55
had to wait until the final you know mode was actually blessed and approved and then we could start taking
00:54:00
the data so that's why the observations actually spanned a couple of weeks um for all five of these
00:54:06
images that were released but as i said we were taking some images of not just one region but maybe two or three different nebula for example um and then they got to prioritize which
00:54:18
ones they thought were the best and so um there there's a lot of observations that
00:54:24
actually happened within the last few weeks of commissioning the james webb space telescope all that information is
00:54:31
is becoming available um as i said as we speak um they're working on getting all
00:54:36
that data online so folks can go in and look so i think initially we're going to see a lot of it coming out just because
00:54:42
it's there it's everybody wants to get their hands on the james webb data as quickly as possible we'll probably see a number of images
00:54:53
coming out after that it's going to take a little bit of time because the scientists are going to start getting their data
00:55:00
and then depending on their familia familiarity with the analysis and interpretation of that data
00:55:06
it might take them some time just to learn how to to digest it to to do their science you
00:55:12
know do their analysis um and so most of the the individuals that are observing the first year um have a proprietary period on that data
00:55:25
for about a year so they get to hold on to it it's not public um to do their analysis to really understand you know what what it is that their scientific objective was
00:55:38
but some of the observations are actually available immediately to the public and so those will probably come
00:55:44
out a lot faster and there's a whole series of programs that are called um early release science programs and these were designed as such so they're they're
00:55:54
science programs that were taken that will be taken within the first six months of the james webb science
00:56:00
operations um some of them started today uh or yesterday or even last week um and those observations will become public immediately um and so some of that data and imagery
00:56:14
spectra will probably be coming out a lot faster than the other general cycle science programs okay and is that is that all going to be available on the same nasa website that all these photos are
00:56:27
on yeah um so not the nasa website everything goes into our archive um so we have the mikulski archive it's where all the hubble data is actually archived
00:56:38
i don't know if there's plans to do something like um you know the hubble site where you can
00:56:44
go in and search any hubble image that's ever been taken um and find it for yourself and put it on your desktop or
00:56:50
on your phone or whatever um there will probably be something similar for the james webb space telescope but
00:56:56
i'm not 100 sure what those plans are um but i'm guessing there will be okay awesome well i think that was a really amazing explanation of all these images
00:57:07
um for people that are listening you should really watch the video podcast because it's very visual
00:57:12
uh sorry for the audio listeners but um yeah is there anything else that people should know where they can stay up to
00:57:18
date with everything jwst is doing um jwst.nasa.gov is the the first go-to um of course you can always google jwst and find everything
00:57:31
we were even the google doodle i saw that yeah i saw that i didn't even know that was happening and somebody told me to go and look i was i thought that was really fun um
00:57:43
yeah but yeah so jwst.nasa.gov we're also all over social media it's mostly nasa web is our handle so that's another great place to follow along
00:57:55
cool well thank you so much for coming on um if there's anything else that you think
00:58:02
is worth talking about then i guess let us know now but otherwise i think i think we're pretty good
00:58:11
i have been talking non-stop for two days so i was gonna say you should probably go
00:58:17
get some sleep eventually i'm sure you have more interviews after this but yeah take a nice vacation or something cool well thank you so much for having
00:58:28
me of course thank you we're super excited about this so awesome all right well that was a lot of
00:58:35
fun david to listen to and i just it's funny because i've had the uh i've been rotating between these james webb space
00:58:41
telescope images as my wallpapers on all my devices for the past couple days since they came out and it's funny i've
00:58:47
looked in high resolution on these brand new screens at these photos for so long
00:58:53
at all these different things and this entire time i had never noticed that the one with the two different similar looking
00:58:59
images had a binary star system in them yeah literally never saw the second star until hearing that that's how they shot
00:59:05
these two super cool stuff um yeah just cool about cool to learn about our universe in such a visually engaging way yeah i think that a lot of these images really showcase the spectrum that jwst
00:59:18
can take photos in that one that you mentioned i thought it was just like a positive image and like a negative image
00:59:24
like they did a reversal but it's actually a mid-infrared image and a near-infrared image
00:59:30
because there's a dying star that emits a certain type of light and then the other star in that system emits a different type of light very cool yeah
00:59:37
but um obviously these are only like the first like four or five images and many more to come there's a lot more to come
00:59:43
many more wallpapers to come we were like yeah this is like adam walked in you walked in i walked in
00:59:48
we have all of the same wallpaper i'm feeling left out here i think it might be time to change my wallpaper i would
00:59:54
bet you like half the half of the world has this as their wallpaper right now and if they haven't they should
01:00:04
yeah no that's it uh i think we're on the same page though that the uh the live stream revealing and explaining the
01:00:10
photos was well it was at the same time as the nothing event it was clearly the better live stream i wish i watched that instead i had to
01:00:17
put on each monitor and i was paying way more attention to it yeah i was definitely watching nasa and i only was
01:00:23
notified that there was a nothing event happening because someone tagged us uh because they had the waveform yeah that
01:00:29
is true nasa did not show shop.mkbb.com what's up with that now yeah not cool not cool i'll i'll wait for that in the next jwst images if you can like find a constellation and name it waveform or
01:00:41
something that would be dope uh either way i think that's a good place to end it uh but of course it again today oh
01:00:47
well played yeah well played yeah i think we should end it because we we didn't finish up with the trivia yeah maybe david you haven't heard the trivia
01:00:53
questions yet right now so we'll answer the trivia and then if you think both of our answers are
01:00:59
wrong maybe you can chime in what can i get david on my team what wait we get teams wait there's only
01:01:05
i get teams because i got destroyed the first season you can have teams today yeah that's what i'm saying but david's
01:01:10
on my team today all right fine we're team right camera okay camera ray team left camera all right so the questions were the first question
01:01:21
what was ask.com originally known as so we i think we both know this one right i'm pretty sure it was ask jeeves right yeah am i allowed i can say the answer now yeah okay because like last
01:01:33
time you're good you're a waiter i would yeah yeah i do remember this was there a
01:01:38
longer version well there was a bunch of search engines that were sort of competing with i'm doing air quotes for
01:01:44
the audio listeners where we were trying to think like oh okay if i don't use google for everything what will i use
01:01:50
other search engines for and bing had its thing i remember i used one called alta vista i remember alta vista
01:01:57
there's ask jeeves there's the yahoo search engine there's all kinds of other options is ask.com still a website it is you can
01:02:04
start they were sort of trying to spin it into an ai yeah where like jeez was a character like siri they should have
01:02:10
spun it into an nft that's that weird i'm glad they didn't yeah very happy they didn't
01:02:16
andrew you were so proud of that so that that was correct then yes because i remember they changed the name of that
01:02:22
like three or four times it was ask jeeves it was ask.com it's probably because it was the worst
01:02:28
name ever yeah ash chiefs was terrible it's not bad i don't think it's that but it was like that early part of the
01:02:33
internet where people were trying to make fun things and jeeves is like the classic butler name yeah it was in this
01:02:38
it was the it was the it was ahead of its time it was an assistant yeah basically yeah basically before siri
01:02:44
before google before [Music] nyc next question this one's way harder by the way it's very hard yep okay apple has a long history of using other oem's displays what was the brand name of the
01:03:05
technology powering sony's displays used in apple crt monitors starting in 1987.
01:03:14
what that's why i wanted you on my team because that's how i felt it was the branding i just want everyone to know
01:03:20
that ellis looked at me like i was crazy because i didn't know this i think i need a whiteboard to even understand the
01:03:26
question of like where it's going okay so apple has a long history of using other oems that way displays we know
01:03:32
this what was the brand name of the technology so not the display itself the technology that powers the sony displays that were used in apple crt monitors
01:03:45
okay in 1987. so let me work backwards here in 1987 apple had crt monitors in their displays correct those crt monitors were built by sony correct
01:03:57
those crt monitors built by sony used a certain technology and that technology had a brand name was
01:04:04
it sony's branding or was it apple's branding either a apple name simpler an apple name that everyone understood or a sony name
01:04:16
sony it's like rx7968g yeah which has crt so crt i'm assuming i don't know the answer yeah that's where i'm starting you're
01:04:28
near in for retina i i like i'm gonna try i can see alice knows we all know what it is it's just
01:04:40
not clicking and is this going to be like something we're going to be really sad about when we hear the answer
01:04:46
crt 1987. oh what mac was that the powerbook if it helps before that sony replaced this brand name in the early 2000s with bravia
01:05:00
no no that does not help i know about i know about sony bravia i'm trying to remember if i i think we should give up i think i'm gonna try to save that here logistically create one from the
01:05:13
information like the like crts had like a had like bad refresh rates and they that like i
01:05:20
don't think they marketed that though no but they they would want theirs to have like a name that would suggest it overcame those problems okay so it'd be
01:05:26
like clean scan or something like that you know what i mean i guess sony would name it another hint is the problem it
01:05:31
overcame was brightness actually like it was brighter than the other one it was brighter than a standard crt and this
01:05:38
technology made its way to televisions in the early 60s it's a tech the name of a technology and not a brand name
01:05:45
it is a brand name i could ask you the name of the technology but i don't think this is such a complex question i know
01:05:51
the branding of a technology let's call it sony clearview okay it's uh it's called trinitron what alice
01:06:03
it's written oh whatever yeah i don't think i was going to get that if there's any listeners out there that got that i will give you alice's personal cell phone number
01:06:13
you must be older than us to probably get that well the final score is marquez one andrew one season two harder questions yeah was that is that it there's not another
01:06:25
question that was it that was kind of fun i kind of want another one we'll get more you want another one i
01:06:30
have like 20 more let's do one more yeah one more okay one more do it let's go so we all know who made the betamax
01:06:42
but what company was responsible for vhs well i know this i didn't retrotech we answered this in retrotech oh vhs david looks like he knows it
01:06:55
david either looks super confident or very not confident i don't know what he's confident it's a confident face
01:07:02
jvc i was wrong that's right what's your answer andrew panasonic jv david a mad jdc the minute he said that i like
01:07:14
just pictured it on the kit on the phone i thought we were a team oh we're a team
01:07:20
david said well if you have different outcomes yeah i'll give you half a point for that
01:07:26
splitting it up no i i remembered we sorry david we had a it was a rivalry in uh retrotech world yeah when we went
01:07:32
over that i just had to think back to the the verses yeah well good job you didn't i mean i
01:07:37
had a jvc camcorder back in the day good times all right well that's where we'll end it thanks for tuning in and for playing
01:07:44
along with us and uh send us your screenshots of your wallpaper on twitter of how you're using jb jwst images
01:07:50
because i know you are yeah you definitely for sure also fun big thanks to uh dr stephanie oh yeah shout out to nasa
01:07:58
much appreciated yet again you guys are the best and uh hopefully we'll talk to them again soon all right
01:08:04
see you guys later peace out dude waveform was produced by adam molina and ellis roven we are partnered with vox
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media and our intro outros created by vayne [Music] you