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[Music]
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all right welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and in today's episode we're going to
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bring on a special guest we have quinn from snazzy labs he's going to be joining me to talk about tesla's full
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self-driving beta the rollout how it's going this new thing with the safety score in the app and how they're
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deciding who gets it first despite who's already paid for it we'll be getting on that in a little bit but first andrew
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you wanted to rant about something for a little bit i did yeah yeah um so like obviously really excited for quinn to
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come on i think this whole full self-driving rollout's kind of interesting like actually really interesting there's a lot going way more
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than just full self-driving but anyways we can't not talk about amazon astro uh
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yes um the robot yeah he is so amazon had an event and they released a couple different things if you missed it
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you didn't miss very much but one thing they did release is called astro and we have to talk about it mostly because
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like if you search for azure right now the top headline is a verge article called amazon astro is terrible and will
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throw itself downstairs developers reportedly claim i can't believe this it's so that's one of the brutal i think
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that's my favorite headline of 2021 so far yeah for sure so we can't not talk about this okay so we've done a video on
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uh robots in the homes before i did a video all about the tesla bot
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which is a totally different like ballpark of what it actually is trying to be but the idea is it's an assistant
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robot that helps you around in your house so amazon is making one it's called astro it's about two feet tall it
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looks kind of like a screen on wheels basically yeah it's got eyes on the screen it's
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got a little periscope camera that can telescope up out of the top to look around um so basically it basically acts like
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a a an ipad on wheels if you will yeah the main thing here is it has wheels and also if if you're an audio listener and
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you're taking that description marquez and thinking said and and you're thinking like hmm
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this doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense you're probably right you're you're pictionary exactly what it
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is it's very basic i mean this reminds me of basically it reminds me of every robot that you see at ces which is like
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a little like rectangle on wheels basically that rolls around has maybe like a single purpose
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and there's a couple things that's basically like you said it has two main wheels on the front it looks
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like it has like a little rotating wheel on the back so it can you know it's mostly driving it can pivot yeah and then it has like yeah the screen coming
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off the top of it that can kind of flex up and down and turn left and right a little bit and it looks like the screen
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mostly just shows eyes which to make it look like a like little creature almost right to
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sort of anthropomorphize it a little bit uh it's going to come out this year this is the important part that everyone
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uh likes to talk about the most is it's going to be about a thousand dollars for this early
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data launch early launch price for it and then it'll be about 1400 1500 bucks yeah after that so it's real it's coming
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out you'll be able to buy one yes what does it do a couple things really yeah i think
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there's a lot of questions like why would you ever want this i think the easiest way to go about this is i wrote
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down a bunch of ways amazon claimed to use it and then let's just go through it one by one and think of yeah either
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would ever use it that way yeah there's a demo video on amazon's youtube channel i highly suggest watching it it's like
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two minutes long it's really funny it's it's almost like a futuristic like
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cringy uh interpretation of what the future may look like if we never got
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if we were imagining the future 20 years ago i feel like exactly maybe it would feel futuristic but um worth watching
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for sure yeah um so let's see let's go through some of the things that amazon claims will do so number one we have
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monitor and kind of home security so it would link up with your like ring protection uh subscription and can you
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know kind of patrol around your house use its cameras if it notices anything different it can send you alerts if it
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notices people that it doesn't recognize it can send you alerts but basically just instead of having a bunch of different
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security cams now you have one thing rolling around all night right so the key distinction here is it's on wheels
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it is technically mobile and can move around yes but obviously it can't go up and down stairs or even i think there is
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a line on their site about like if you have a floor interruption of over three centimeters it will not go over it so it
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needs to be in that one area of your house but this is i think the actual area
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where i could see it being the most useful is instead of having three security cameras in three different
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rooms at three different doors you have one and it can respond to sounds if it hears something around the house it can
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drive over to it i'm i guess kind of the thing is is i could buy three security cameras for
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a fraction of the cost of this thing which is like where i kind of see the issue with that and
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the three centimeter floor separator like separating floors is super common i i mean i live in a ranch and we have one
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room that has two stairs that you have to go down into it which goes to our main door uh we have multiple floor
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separators there's carpet there's hardwood there's tile i don't know how well it would go on all
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those and that's in a ranch a lot of people live in two-story houses where there's now half of the houses yeah i guess you
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put it on the ground floor where someone could get in yeah that would make the most sense but okay it does more than just security cameras though so what is
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the next they also say for keeping tabs on elderly people or elderly or young family members um
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technically true yeah kind of i mean if you wanted to pay attention to your
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kids i don't know maybe i could kind of see this here where your kids are getting to that age where
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maybe you're not sure if you want to leave them home alone and now you have something you can keep an eye on them
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or elderly again an elderly family member maybe they fall down and it notices that but again a security camera
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in every room would still probably be cheaper and just as efficient here the other thing is
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this is a it's a camera it's an alexa it's a it's microphones you can just get an alexa with a screen
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and put it in a room so the difference here being it's on wheels and can do some unique things
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like walk from room to room and pop up a periscope camera follow people around that's one of the things in the video
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hey a word follow me and it follows you to the next room that's like kind of a neat
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bonus but something that most of the time you're probably not going to use so here's the thing all the i have two
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things here about that involve following one i kid you not it actually says this
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it can follow you around to play podcasts or music okay do you would could you ever see yourself
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saying like hey astro i'm listening to this podcast please follow me around the house why i do different things or would
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you put on a pair of headphones i would either use a speaker and turn it off just turn it in the middle of the room
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or yeah i would use my headphones okay um and then the other one it makes a little more sense but video chat it can
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follow you around and actually they said kind of like facebook portal or kind of like center stage i think yes now is it
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following you with the periscope camera or are you talking to people that's what i was imagining is because
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like you're uh oh yeah it's a good idea it's gonna be this nice little camera that follows me around literally in retro check we had a camera that does
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this where it was a robot on wheels and you would say i think it was g but whatever it was it said follow me and
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i'd walk around and it had this sickest video of the back of my knees yeah as i walked around it would just keep up with
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the back of my knees my heels would always be in the middle of the frame and uh it wasn't the most useful video so i
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imagine this would point up probably pop out the camera to eye level hopefully if like you really want to feel powerful
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over the people you're video chatting with looking down have them feel like an ant all the time yeah then i could kind
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of see this but again i just i don't see the purpose of that just use your phone use facetime stand still
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when you're video chatting with someone yeah i'm not totally sure about that um
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so it also has a little tray in the back of it that can be you can put a
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cup holder in it yeah so it can deliver a water bottle or something to someone in another room yeah some small items
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some keys so you're in one so think so you're in one room yep someone goes hey pass me a
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water bottle and you go i know what i'll do you call over the robot you put it in the robot and you send it over to the
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next room yeah not up not but down some stairs not up some stairs or floor dividers no floor dividers but around
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the corner into the next room it can bring them that water bottle for you hey if you've got that thousand dollars
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that's that's pretty good i i can honestly say that i don't think the security cameras or my headphones or
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anything can do that so kudos i guess credit where credit is due but
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if you're talking about this in like i don't i was saying when we first saw this we saw that video of it delivering
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the water bottle and we were all just laughing it seems so ridiculous because you still have to have someone get the
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water bottle right put it in the cup holder and then it did that terrible thing where like it drove up to the
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person on the couch looked at him and then like spun itself around super there was like a solid felt like two
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minutes between it being like within three feet of the person and to actually delivering the water bottle because
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that's a look and then back up yeah yeah it does a whole maneuver to deliver the water to you feels so unnecessary i just
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now i thought what if your refrigerator had a little docking station and then it could vending machine uh
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beverages into it straight in so then at least i'm home alone i'm on the couch not separated by stairs or floor
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dividers and i want a soda or a beer or a water now that at least it will get it for me
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yeah you can say astro bring me a water and it will leave the room and come back with the water with no other human
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intervention that would be kind of neat that would be kind of neat this is all just in the world of like
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general purpose robots where we've talked about well do you want a general purpose robot
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that does a bunch of different things or do you want specific robots to do one thing well at a time and we keep
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mentioning like okay i could just use headphones or okay i could just use security cameras so in theory this one
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astro robot is replacing security cameras headphones
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a person to bring you water a couple other small tasks like that um
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as long as you want a super subpar performance in all of those aspects right it doesn't do any one of those
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things amazingly well so that's that's kind of astro i've never i have a roomba by the way it's never thrown itself
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downstairs so i i will bring up this is from a vice article of a couple of the developers
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who said a few things i can go over um yeah amazon did respond to this saying it may it's probably outdated
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information so i just want to have that disclaimer here but i can't not talk about it of literal developer saying
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that if quote-unquote presented the opportunity it will throw itself downstairs
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that's probably the biggest selling point i've seen so far because i just want to watch the pure decision of tossing itself down
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the stairs yeah um but there there was a this vice article had a bunch of different things from people
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who worked on this that said it's extremely fragile it has thrown itself downstairs it's just like
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they don't really see the point of it it seems to be so yeah the question i asked on
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twitter is okay real question what is the ideal
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home robot if such a thing even exists what what is it i don't know do you want
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do you even want a robot in your home totally fair question curious what your thoughts are i i made
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this i had this tweet just having a picture of the tesla bot next to this and everyone goes well one of them is a human in a suit and doesn't exist and
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the other one is real and i'm like okay yeah no that's a really good point the tesla bot is years
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and years away super ambitious the other is it has a price tag it's going to come out this year
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which would you rather have or would you rather have something somewhere in between and i think the right answer to
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like a decent home general purpose robot is probably somewhere in between and probably
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doesn't come out right now it's probably not very good yet but i i don't know that it has to get all
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the way to the point where it walks on two legs and has hands with fingers it's probably somewhere here's my thing i
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think the wheels are the biggest limiting factor on this if somehow this could be
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exact i mean like listen in a perfect situation like an apartment
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that has perfectly smooth floors over everywhere then this might make a little more sense like it does do i i think the
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patrolling option is neat i think being able to control the patrolling option is cool too so you can go see a couple
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things if you're away from your house but the fact that it has wheels just is so limiting if this had four legs
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similar to a mini spot and had everything it did i think it would be much much much more
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reasonable it would probably cost way more money but it would do what it's supposed to do and be able to climb
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stairs or not trip over things um yeah but one other thing here that i want to add
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that one of the developers also said is it is pretty poor at detecting faces and recognizing people um which one of the
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things it's supposed to do is if it recognizes somebody in the house that it doesn't know it's supposed to follow it
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in its patrolling right aspect except if it's not very good at figuring that out
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then it just starts following people it doesn't know which could be you and your home and now you just have this thing like nipping at your heels all the time
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following you around the house it um yeah i think like in general to me
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this just feels like it's amazon camera in your house
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tracking you looking at your face all the time being able to have a camera anywhere in your house unless there's
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stairs or a floor divider and yeah i think the the thing that comes back to it is like we've watched over the years
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all these companies try and attempt various ways to get their machine
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learning into your home so we have google and we have google assistant and now we have them
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practically giving away like home minis and it's google's using your phone and there's all these different ways for them to get it with ambient computing
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into your home yeah uh amazon's got alexa they maybe want a camera in your home now and people aren't going to buy
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the camera on the alexa but maybe they'll buy astro and they'll start getting all this information yeah and
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this is just another like facebook made that portal thing which is like okay if you want a facebook camera in your home
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there's that option yep but like this is another way for amazon to get microphone
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and cameras in your home and literally following you around so if that's something you'd be into you might get
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some convenience back out of it which is the goal but that's kind of the way i see it at this point in time yeah and
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amazon i believe they've had some controversy with their ring stuff and taking data and everything like that so
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just be super careful with this i think my biggest thing is you've mentioned like obviously everyone wants to put
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something in our home that can hear us and sell us stuff yeah uh you know
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generally you save on that though like they understand that's what it is so a google home mini or an echo dot or stuff
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like that are super cheap and you're getting it i'm paying if i missed the launch on this i'm paying 1500
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for something that can't really do much and it's just tracking me with a camera
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potentially anywhere in my house yeah follows you around yeah don't we'll see i want i i would still like to try and
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see like how well it works in person i don't know if i'll bring it home but i'll have it in the studio and just see what it does but like how much of your
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house could it cover um well one floor it wouldn't go up or down any stairs because you have a basement also that
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you're in pretty often and yeah it has an entryway there as well right in the garage but it would never it would just have to roam around the ground floor
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basically so we are now going to if you have this you're gonna have keep all your valuables on the first floor
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or yeah yeah basically yeah well that's three of them that's all we know
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about it so far uh yeah you can get three of them you can get one on every floor every floor as long as it doesn't toss itself down yeah and then they'll
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all be on one floor together uh that's that's astro honestly when i heard the name
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astro i pictured you know the uh the demo game for the ps5 astros world for sure i pictured that astro robot which
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is also like a little humanoid robot with like eyes on a screen and everything and i was like oh that would be cool this one's more like wall-e a
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little bit yeah a little more like i i and i may have accidentally said ash dress somewhere here but there's a
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character invalid named astra oh it's way cooler than the stupid robot though yeah but yeah uh
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pretty off topic pretty quickly but if you don't think we gave this a fair shot um sorry but i don't have a lot of optimism
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for this one to be we'll get one in the studio we'll see you eventually we'll make some sort of video i could definitely see at least a studio video
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coming out of this so uh let's take a quick break when we come back we'll talk with quinn and talk about full
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self-driving this whole dashboard of how tesla's watching us now and seeing evaluating how we drive we'll come back
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in a minute and talk about that this episode of waveform is brought to you by one dream so endless hours of
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dot com slash waveform and start learning today all right quinn of snazzy labs thank you
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for joining me on the waveform podcast i'm glad to be here thanks for the invite perfect we uh we're talking electric car
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stuff a little bit on this podcast a lot a lot on this podcast yeah and uh i was
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just watching your rivian r1t experience video you're another fellow creator and
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self-proclaimed car enthusiast and you probably have more car experience than i do oh i don't know about that but well
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i've done i've done a lot of new cars but i've only been into cars for like the last four to five years where okay
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people who have been into cars for way longer have a much bigger breadth of knowledge but how was how was the r1t
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you did a video about it it was amazing i i came away super impressed i mean
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obviously there's a long road ahead for this company i mean they're just starting production and and you know
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making a good car is just start as tesla has demonstrated but uh the car is really good i mean the
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fit and finish and the the quality materials is is shockingly good it kind of puts tesla to shame then again it is
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in a different price bracket i mean these cars fully loaded or 90 000 so they're not not cheap at all yeah yeah
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yeah i get i get excited sometimes by the prototypes that they build and show to us but then you have to remember
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that's now you have to mass produce it and you have to actually sell it and i'm really hoping deliveries are soon because it
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seems like they're finally about to turn the camera yeah i think they're i think they're pumping them out so that's good they're hoping to get through the
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pre-order queue i think they said by the end of next year which seems optimistic but that would be awesome if they could
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that would be sick and then we'd have trucks electric trucks on the road uh and you got an order in what color
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did you go with yeah i went with the blue that's not really the color i would have chosen but a little birdie told me
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that that's the color they're making the most of and so if i wanted one to maybe order that color
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but the in person the yellow one i'm not a yellow car guy but oh man it is
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beautiful interesting okay i'm gonna keep an eye on that i don't have an order in yet but
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i might have to um all right well we we want to talk a little bit about what tesla's been doing
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lately um which is with their full self driving now full self driving in air quotes because
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this has been a constant theme of like all right coming soon more people will have access to this beta of a feature
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that maybe almost works uh and you've been you've spoken at length about this on twitter which i
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love um probably since like 2015 i've been paying or at least in the cars that i
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bought paying for full soft driving i paid extra for this and it's finally arrived at this very interesting stage
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which is it is in beta but it is you have to request access to
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the queue that can start using the beta yeah and once you request access
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uh you update the app you update the software on your car and then it begins tracking how you
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drive and assessing a safety score and those with the highest safety score
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will be the first in line to start using the future that they paid for already
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yeah so there's a lot to break down yeah first of all
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you know the the history of like having paid for self-driving a long time ago and still not having access to it how
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does that how does that feel have you paid for self-driving before and i have a person interested in it yeah i mean
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tesla's kind of changed the way that they've done this multiple times now at least in the u.s
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this is still different in europe but now there's only one option so it's either everything or nothing and that
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all falls under the full self-driving umbrella which costs 10 000 or 200 bucks a month which is a lot of
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money and then when i bought my car and presumably when you bought your cars there were two
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different packages one was called enhanced autopilot and one was called full self-driving and enhanced autopilot
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that basically has all of the features that tesla's can do today so the automatic lane changes um the the
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hopping on and off the highway and then the full self-driving package didn't really get any features until a couple
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years ago when smart summon came out where it could drive around the parking lot and then more recently it will now
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stop at traffic lights but other than that full self-driving doesn't really do
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anything yet for the average person and there's a lot of people that have been agitated as you mentioned
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because since 2015 they've been selling this as a software feature and they've kind of been promising i mean if you get
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into the fine print they're probably not liable but make no mistake i mean they've been saying for years that this is pretty much done
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and it's not and so there's a lot of people that are really frustrated because they've been
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waiting years for something that hasn't come some people like you have sold cars and purchased new ones
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without ever getting value out of the full self-driving package and then the worst part of all and this is the part that makes me mad for other people is
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there's people that leased teslas that paid money for full self driving on their lease returned their car and never
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realized value for any of that because it just never happened and actually you leased your first model s right
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right yeah and i did pay for it and i you know as you think about these businesses it's not like businesses get
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to be successful without thinking really hard about like the bottom line and like average value you get out of a car it's
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like they know what they're doing clearly oh yeah and the more you know tesla might not have
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ads or marketing the way traditional manufacturers do but at least people in the company sharing
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that it seems feature complete and it's clearly getting people to spend a
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bit more on the cars despite not getting actually more out of the car which is a weird thing to say about a car uh in the
00:24:11
software department yeah um but now we're you know despite all the tweets about like oh three weeks away
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it's one week away whatever there's finally a button and you can finally request it now it's real now there's
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there's been um there's been a very very limited beta of this full self-driving out there in the world
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and there's a small group of people who's actually gotten to use it and have made youtube videos about it and
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have had like a little gopro behind the dash cam of the wheel like showing what's going on in the car have you seen any of these videos in action yeah some
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of these channels there's a channel in particular i think it's ai driver um whoever runs the channel does an
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excellent job because they'll like super impose what the car is seeing and the visualization as they're driving i mean
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there's a bunch of people that are really creative about how do we show what the car sees and how do we show what it actually does and so yeah and
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and the videos are impressive i mean the car does drive itself a lot of the time
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which is pretty cool it's certainly not bulletproof and that's where we get into the kind of endless discussion of well
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where do we draw the line of what do we consider you know safe enough that it can kind of
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take over or what are the edge cases but i mean i gotta hand them props they it's a real product kind of
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even though not everyone has access to it it's more impressive than what anyone else is doing other than maybe
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waymo but that's a whole different technology stack and different things oh yeah but yeah yeah no i've been
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following it because i paid for it now i'm like all right i'm ready let me get in the beta let me let me see what this is about because right now we
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did our thousand mile road test and that's the most i've ever used autopilot and i was constantly like very aware of
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when it would disengage and you know getting to the exit on a highway would get it would get like halfway down the
00:25:57
exit ramp it would count down 500 feet before i disengage 200 feet before i disengage and then it would go all right i'm done you take the wheel
00:26:03
and so i see all these videos of people using the phil self-driving beta it's taking turns
00:26:09
across traffic it's stopping at stop lights merging with all these complicated ramps and all these things
00:26:15
and i'm like all right that's that's pretty impressive but there is a solid amount of
00:26:22
uh correction happening when i'll see like some weird you know lines on the road or a bus stop
00:26:27
or a curb or something weird comes up and they'll go oh this is a little weird i'll just take the wheel and then yeah re-engage it in a second
00:26:34
and i feel like the metric that they they land on the most is how many times do i
00:26:39
have to disengage it before i get to my destination and that number's shrinking and shrinking and hopefully it's the
00:26:45
safest when there's zero right um and i think that's maybe why tesla's been so cautious about this
00:26:51
rollout is obviously they don't want the negative kind of press and the liability of having their full self-driving
00:26:58
software crash when someone who's not paying attention is behind the wheel but it is going to take a while because
00:27:05
even though the disengagements are low i mean i don't know the percentage of miles driven to disengagements occurring
00:27:10
but i bet it's probably 90 maybe 95 that the car does it by itself which is really good but if you go back years and
00:27:17
years and years that's when elon's saying you know 99 is super easy it's when you get
00:27:23
99.99999 and you add the nines and i think he's always said that they need to get to
00:27:29
3.9 before it's good enough and i mean they they're not even close to 99 right
00:27:34
now but that's why they're doing this right because they need to gather data and the more people driving with the
00:27:40
software the more disengagements that happen the more the system can analyze what went wrong and how will i fix that
00:27:46
in the future so it's it's working theoretically so do you have access
00:27:51
what's your safety score well that's where i'm going so i your point about like them being super
00:27:57
careful about who gets access to it and who gets to use it because obviously any mistakes it makes
00:28:03
are just going to get picked up and probably make headlines so i didn't have access to that early beta and there's
00:28:08
even some notes about like apparently people who are in that super early small group had to sign a special
00:28:13
nda and only be able to share certain things and yeah that doesn't look great but now that it's out there i figured
00:28:20
i'd put my myself in the queue i have a safety score it's not high enough i'll put it that way
00:28:27
um come on what is it it was it started at like 95
00:28:32
i believe it's currently at 77 which is not great that would be that's what it
00:28:38
is supply yeah you're passing right that gets you a degree passing
00:28:45
yeah but the idea here is like all right so the safer you are as a driver
00:28:50
um then the the more likely you are to be admitted into this program to test
00:28:56
this full self-driving so i'm like all right i guess that does make sense but then you can actually look through and
00:29:01
see exactly how it's evaluating your safety score do you have a safety score i don't because on my model y i didn't
00:29:07
actually end up paying for full self-driving okay so okay so there are five things that it's looking at to
00:29:13
determine your safety score and it's basically a proportion of how many dangerous things happen over like per
00:29:19
thousand miles sure the first one is how many forward collision warnings do you get the second one is how much hard braking
00:29:27
do you do uh and hard braking is in excess of 0.3 g's
00:29:33
so uh my you know diminishing your your vehicle speed by 6.7 miles an hour in
00:29:38
one second you know it's decently heartbreaking i feel like autopilot frequently does hardly he's gonna say
00:29:44
that yeah all the time i feel like i'll just get phantom breaking that hard yeah um aggressive turning so a lateral g is
00:29:52
greater than point four so fund right um phone driving yeah yeah right uh unsafe
00:29:58
following distance so anytime you're over 50 miles an hour and your vehicle's headway is less than one second between
00:30:04
the guy in front of you good yeah and how many forced autopilot disengagements you have so if you don't
00:30:12
touch the wheel after you know 30 seconds of it bleeping at you it'll it'll disengage autopilot and that will
00:30:19
ding your score um turns out most of my score dings are for unsafe following which i
00:30:26
if you're just on the highway going highway speed you should be further technically from the car in front of you
00:30:33
and this is where i think these scores are problematic a little bit is that's based on what the car perceives
00:30:40
perceives to be accurate based on its kind of what it's looking for right but like if
00:30:45
you're in new york your traffic is going to be a lot different than if you're in rural kansas
00:30:51
and so the car might think this is not a safe when in reality that might be safe driving for where you are
00:30:58
yeah yeah i've seen some videos have come up of like specifically things where you can make a
00:31:04
decision in real time that would be less safe that would give you a higher safety score
00:31:10
so for example you're coming up on a stop sign and you realize that the last second you have to stop do you just roll through
00:31:17
the stop sign or you slam on the brakes and get a ding safety score but technically that was safer
00:31:22
um or i think someone else is saying like you know somebody some things roll out in front of your car do you just
00:31:28
steamroll over them because the car doesn't think about collisions or acceleration at all versus hitting the brakes the one i
00:31:35
found interesting was like if someone just cuts you off or hits the brakes in front of you
00:31:40
that's going to ding your close following distance and you're heartbreaking it means it's not your fault right and it's not your fault and
00:31:46
you were being safe about it because you hit the brakes right yeah exactly so it's it's weird that the the car is
00:31:53
like making these decisions and doesn't have much context about them um how do you think your safety score would be if
00:32:00
you had it turned on right now would you perform for the algorithm or would you just drive like however you want well i
00:32:05
would probably perform for the algorithm because ultimately i'd want to make a video about it but but yeah i don't
00:32:11
i think i would be probably more conscious of how i was driving to hit the score that i wanted that i would
00:32:16
actually probably be driving less safely and that's where i think
00:32:22
not that i have major criticisms with the idea but i think they should set a minimum
00:32:27
threshold and then kind of roll stuff out based on where people are in the order queue or
00:32:32
whatever i mean because again you have people that have purchased this five years ago and if they've got a 94 safety
00:32:38
score and they're starting with everyone who's 100 and then after a couple months 99 and then after a couple months 98 you
00:32:43
know that's going to be tricky and frustrating to those people that feel like they should get access
00:32:49
so i would prefer they you know say okay 90 percent is the minimum safety store if you've got that then you get access
00:32:54
to the beta and then we're gonna watch you and we're gonna we have the cabin camera turned on and if you're not paying attention and if there's
00:33:00
disengagements and if you're looking down at your phone then you're in trouble but yeah arbitrarily
00:33:07
getting people to hit this maximum number that again is kind of based off on how to gain the algorithm rather than
00:33:14
how to actually just drive safely seems seems a bit ill-advised in my opinion
00:33:19
yeah it's it's also kind of funny that you've you've already paid for this thing and it seems like it's finally
00:33:25
ready because it's actually shipping to real people via software update and you still don't get it because now you have
00:33:30
to try out again for the thing you already bought yep that that is a little bit weird to me
00:33:37
but i think even more weird is the fact that the car is now it's already known how i drive but it
00:33:43
hasn't necessarily relayed that information back to people who will make a decision based on it you
00:33:49
know what i mean right that's a that's another level of like weird uh borderline not surveillance but it's
00:33:55
like a strange uh extra layer of information to give up to people yeah no it kind of is and i
00:34:02
guess tesla's approach would be well that's just the clause of the beta you don't have to join the beta if you want to just wait until it hits public
00:34:08
release and you never have to touch the steering wheel and you never have to disengage knock yourself out but that's
00:34:13
going to take a long time it's going to be years presumably before you can sit in your car and not pay
00:34:19
attention and you don't look at the wheel and you're watching netflix because based on what we're seeing it's going to be a long time before you can
00:34:26
truly take your eyes off the wheel and that's where i think tesla actually i got to give them credit because i've been pretty critical about how they have
00:34:33
been pitching autopilot and full self-driving because i think they oversell the capabilities of the system
00:34:39
but this really cautious rollout i think is smart because as soon as you provide people
00:34:44
with any level of autonomy no matter how good of a driver they are they're going to think they understand the system
00:34:50
they're going to think they know when disengagements aren't going to happen and and you just instinctively pay less
00:34:55
attention and i notice that in autopilot i mean i like to think i'm a good driver i don't use my phone when i'm driving
00:35:00
but there have been times when i would be like you know what i'm driving and i'm on the freeway going 80 miles an
00:35:05
hour and i don't really remember the last time i looked like super far ahead to see you you know if there's people beside me because you
00:35:11
kind of just zone out looking at the road and and so this cautious rollout to make sure that the people that are driving
00:35:18
with the full self-driving beta are actually ready to take control is is good it's just frustrating that this is
00:35:25
part of a hey so you gave us thousands and thousands of dollars years ago and now we're slowly maybe perhaps going to
00:35:32
give you access yeah i feel like i'm trying to put myself in tesla's shoes where it's like
00:35:38
all right we've made this thing and we know that any sort of irresponsible use of this thing or extra trust in this
00:35:45
thing that ends up causing an accident or having a bad thing happen will be very bad for it and will
00:35:51
probably make headlines and whether or not they have a pr department you don't want to have to deal with that
00:35:56
so the best way to minimize that is to find a way to select the best possible
00:36:02
candidates to start testing it early and this is the way that they came up with to select the best candidates
00:36:08
and while i don't necessarily think i'll be getting it anytime soon i feel like i get it yeah at least understand that no and
00:36:15
it's it's kind of a damned if they do damned if they don't scenario just because tesla and elon musk are such divisive
00:36:21
entities and characters that they're kind of going to get crappy press no matter what i mean you mentioned earlier the nda where inside
00:36:29
the nda it's like hey you should kind of self-monitor don't post stuff that's super negative about the full self-driving beta and you've got all
00:36:35
these websites saying oh that's censorship they don't want you to you show how crappy their software is it's like that's not really what they mean
00:36:42
but also they probably just shouldn't have put that in the nta because it's calling all this so they're gonna get blasted by the
00:36:49
media either way and frankly even though i really don't like the way that they do
00:36:55
a lot of things i think all things considered with where they're at now in this day and age with all their
00:37:01
customers this is probably the best way to roll it out even if it's not perfect
00:37:06
yeah do you think uh full self driving is like the future of all cars on the road like tesla can get
00:37:13
really good at this as good as they want but there's still going to be a very large percent of other cars on the road
00:37:18
not doing self-driving for many many more years is that like a future you can imagine oh
00:37:25
absolutely i mean the question i i think that we again get to is a when do we reach the point where in all
00:37:32
instances computers and self-driving cars are safer than human drivers up until that they're always safer i don't
00:37:39
think there's going to be regulatory requirements or whatever and then the other side of the equation is when does it become accessible to everyone because
00:37:46
if i can only buy a 20 000 car and i'm used to and now i need a car that drives itself you know how long is it going to
00:37:53
take for this tech that's in tesla's now or in tesla's 10 years from now going to come down market to the masses and i
00:37:59
think it's going to be decades before nobody's really driving
00:38:05
their cars anymore i mean it might not even happen in our lifetime um but i'm a bit uh
00:38:11
more skeptical than a lot of people certainly more than elon musk um and so so maybe it's coming sooner than we
00:38:18
think um and we've certainly made huge steps in the last few years and tesla's system make no mistake is impressive but
00:38:25
i think it's going to be years probably at least more than five
00:38:30
probably 10 before you can get in your tesla you put the address in where you want to go and
00:38:36
you don't have to watch the road a single time it's a long time away yeah it feels like every year at ces we
00:38:41
see like a prototype of a car where like the driver's seat faces backwards and the screen is like a projection and you
00:38:47
don't even look at the outside of the car it's like that's very optimistic and i applaud that
00:38:52
optimism but i don't know how soon that's gonna happen i feel like the the approach towards
00:38:58
everyone going electric is much more quickly happening and that's frankly more interesting to me yeah and i think
00:39:04
that that kind of ultimately will affect the world at a at a greater
00:39:11
i think that's more valuable to the planet and to civilization moving to more sustainable fuels and electric
00:39:17
vehicles than it is to fix full self-driving now don't get me wrong i think it's important if we can get to
00:39:23
the point where we've reduced the millions of automobile crashes that happen every year and millions of deaths
00:39:29
that happen that's awesome but uh it chicken before the egg i guess like
00:39:34
you gotta one thing at a time and i think we're still a ways out and the transition to electric vehicles is is probably more
00:39:41
likely but the great thing that tesla's demonstrated is that you can kind of do both at the same time so
00:39:46
yeah so i want to i want to go back to the the r1t because that's like a
00:39:52
it's so interesting the fact that it's actually coming out hopefully crossing my fingers yeah right um and it's going to be you know delivered and it's going
00:39:58
to be a real electric pickup truck that people will decide to buy yeah do you have you seen
00:40:04
like coverage of like the f-150 lightning and the other like high-end
00:40:09
yeah like the hummer ev is going to be another one coming out soon do you think those have a place because here's
00:40:15
something i noticed every time a new electric vehicle comes out immediately we need something to compare
00:40:21
it to like and there's not that many other electric options so if you make a rivien r1t
00:40:27
we're just going to compare it to the f-150 lightning because it's the other electric pickup truck but like they're very very difficult
00:40:33
right so how do you how do you look at like comparing the r1t to other stuff out there
00:40:38
i mean i'm probably part of the problem i i titled my my rivian first look video the cyber truck killer
00:40:45
again i mean i do think that they're competitors in the sense that they're both electric trucks um they both
00:40:50
operate in roughly the same price echelon the cyber truck allegedly will be cheaper um but
00:40:58
it's just because there's something to compare it to because i don't know why there's this mental disconnect but i
00:41:03
think that people just don't equate evs to regular cars and i think tesla's the first company that kind of came out and
00:41:09
said no this isn't this like weirdo electric car this is just a car that happens to be electric and it's really good and i think that'll start to happen
00:41:16
with trucks and stuff like that where it won't be do i get an f-150 lightning or a riven it'll be do i get an f-150 or do
00:41:23
i get an f-150 lightning um and so i i think that that's bound to happen eventually but uh yeah for right
00:41:31
now there's just because of how few electric vehicles there are they're inherently going to be compared against
00:41:36
one another i mean i remember when the the jaguar i-pace came out they were comparing that to the model three and i
00:41:41
was like what they're not even the same yeah like form factor and but it's like class at all right right exactly the
00:41:48
rivien is a really small truck i mean it's got a four and a half foot bed it is and rivian was quick to admit like
00:41:54
this is not supposed to be an f-150 killer um in fact they said that 85 of
00:41:59
the people that pre-ordered the cars um that the r1t rather are first-time truck owners so i think
00:42:07
they're stealing more of like the jeep crowd and maybe even the tesla crowd then they are stealing the you know the
00:42:13
ram and the the ford crowd so that is that is interesting i i know the the
00:42:19
cyber truck was going to be a lot of people's first truck also yeah probably for a lot of the same reasons like if
00:42:26
you didn't think you needed a truck at all but you were somehow enamored with other parts of it
00:42:31
like the fact that it's an ev or it has this this crazy design or the the quad in the back whatever else it is about
00:42:36
that it was it was going to be a lot of people's first truck um but i guess
00:42:42
do you want me to say something controversial i would love that i would love that i mean i think that the f-150
00:42:51
no i'm gonna get in trouble by people the f-150 is the truck you want if you want a
00:42:56
kind of everyday truck i'm going to haul lumber from home depot occasionally i want to go to the grocery store but if
00:43:02
you're towing stuff every day you're not buying an f-150 you're buying a super duty or a
00:43:07
heavy-duty truck from one of these larger brands and so these these early electric vehicles are not going to replace that because those
00:43:13
are people that need to tow 20 000 pounds hundreds of miles a day and they're out on a ranch and they're not
00:43:19
people that are interested in these small form factor trucks and i think that the f-150 is
00:43:24
probably unique in the sense that it's the only truck i guess the entry level
00:43:31
silverado is in the tacoma kindness but they're these these small trucks that are mostly just bought by normal people
00:43:36
that go to the grocery store but they are powerful and capable enough to tow a boat or whatever and these early kind of
00:43:43
eevee trucks are more grocery store getters than they are i want to haul you know
00:43:49
haze and bales or i don't know what people do with trucks that was my thing it's like okay i've seen all these videos about people who
00:43:55
are like this is why i have a truck this is why i use a truck anytime i need to carry something or like i need to put a
00:44:01
bunch of rocks in the back i'm like i've never seen any of this happening but okay i'll trust it
00:44:06
um but yeah you're right the second i learned there's definitely a a name for i forgot the name of this phenomenon but
00:44:13
when you learn something you start seeing it everywhere oh we did the video on the f-150 lightning and we learned about how popular it was and then i just
00:44:20
i couldn't stop seeing f-150s everywhere all over the highways at every grocery store there's
00:44:25
f-150s all over the road it's the best selling car in america it's the number one selling car number one selling
00:44:31
vehicle and that made it much more apparent that it's like no these this isn't like the the landscaping truck or
00:44:38
like the actual like heavy duty use this is just like people who just get them who just want one yeah they're fine and
00:44:43
uh yeah it turns out i can put like two bicycles in the back of my car without any like equipment and just drive around
00:44:49
with them so i've never needed a pickup truck but maybe one day i'll carry rocks around i don't know we'll see
00:44:55
um all right if someone could i have a random question if someone could drop one of these cars for free into your
00:45:02
driveway right now which one would you take am i a youtuber that stands to make
00:45:08
money off of the content oh that's a great question i'll let you determine i'll say i'm not let's say
00:45:14
the hype for the cyber truck is clearly through the roof right yes um yes but let's pretend i'm not um that's a good
00:45:21
question i really again think it kind of depends the the and what you prioritize
00:45:26
right so the rivian blew me away in terms of the cabin quality i mean it is
00:45:32
a nicer interior than tesla has ever made um it was just dead silent the
00:45:38
seats were incredible um it looks modern but not spartan which i feel a lot of
00:45:43
the kind of tesla design languages it was fantastic and so in that regard
00:45:49
and frankly the off-roading capabilities and even dumb little stuff like that camp kitchen that slides out and the tent like that that's freaking cool
00:45:55
that's freaking cool so i think i would probably want the rivian more but
00:46:01
you can't discount tesla's ability to drive hype
00:46:06
and to make really fast fun cars and they do have the best software in the
00:46:12
business and that was the thing that i was just like come on guys because the rivian was so good but the screen was
00:46:17
just not great and it was definitely not a tesla
00:46:22
so the thing i've been testing a lot with i've had a lot of experience now lately with a lot of newer electric cars
00:46:28
yeah some of them running android automotive some of them running their own software i tested the eqs lately
00:46:34
and the one thing that always pops up is like this software is not good do i think this
00:46:41
car company has the chops to make really good software and usually the answer is
00:46:46
no i just call me crazy but i don't believe mercedes-benz is going to become a great software company in the next few years
00:46:52
100 but but rivien being like this new startup type and and being silicon valley based
00:46:58
maybe there's a chance i was really looking forward to them having great software yeah your experience what you
00:47:03
showed in your video is it's still like choppy and laggy and again it's not out yet but that was that was a concern for
00:47:11
me i think they have the foundations right so because they're not a legacy automaker i
00:47:16
feel like they're not trying to cater to they're not trying to make electric cars like transitionary where i feel like a
00:47:21
lot of other automakers are like that so there's no start stop button like all evs have and i'm like why is this there
00:47:27
you just get in the car and driving you get out of the car and start driving and i'll give i'm just sorry to interrupt you
00:47:33
volvo i'll give credit they have done exactly that there's it's funny because they literally like have a piece of
00:47:39
plastic over where the start stop button would have been but in the xq40 recharge you get in you
00:47:44
hit the brakes and you go that's funny so yeah stuff like that and and just a bunch of this kind of holdover stuff a
00:47:50
phone key once you know once you have a phone key oh my goodness you never want to carry keys ever again but that's
00:47:55
something that's like a big hurdle for a lot of people and so in these regen again people i've seen so many cars that
00:48:02
offer the ability to like turn off regen you're like no don't even let that happen because that's what makes evs have great
00:48:08
range and that's what makes the driving experience great and so there's this kind of awkward
00:48:13
transitionary period where like you've mentioned with volvo i think regular automakers are going to figure it out
00:48:18
but i think tesla really got so much right from the get-go and from what i've seen with ribbon they've kind of copied
00:48:25
a lot of what tesla did and that's largely i don't know if you know this tesla's suing ruby because
00:48:32
they poached an incredible number of tesla engineers and there's a lot of similarities because the same people
00:48:38
that built ribbon built tesla and so and as a consumer i think that's awesome
00:48:43
because i think they have a lot of the principles right but there's this kind of refinement
00:48:49
that comes with tesla software and that's funny because that's probably the only area where tesla's refined but
00:48:55
their software is really refined and rivien is just not even close yet and so they're better than traditional
00:49:01
automakers probably better than the eqs but as a previous tesla owner i just got in there and i was like this screen
00:49:06
sucks so they're they know that's a problem though and they said they're working to
00:49:12
fix it so hopefully they do that that was good to see that like honest like self-assessment from them
00:49:18
because if you ask like mercedes they're like yeah our software is great this is this looks like windows 95. uh germans
00:49:24
am i right i'm just kidding germans germans watch my channel like crazy so i mock them all the time yeah
00:49:31
no yeah there's i i am i like to be optimistic about all the the electric cars on the horizon i like i said i
00:49:37
brought a volvo i was very impressed if you just go to volvo's website right now they're only showing their electric
00:49:43
stuff on their home page which is awesome very forward thinking i like that great so uh hopefully the software experience
00:49:50
gets together in as many of these as possible hopefully the rivian starts shipping asap i want all these things to
00:49:55
be as on time as possible and we get a bunch of electric options and we all win there's one thing that's certainly undeniable cars are really fun and
00:50:02
they're going to be so fun in the next 10 years yeah every year from here on out will be
00:50:07
the most interesting year in cars i really will that's so i'm excited for that yeah man all right i want to ask you one more
00:50:14
thing how fast can you type the alphabet like on a keyboard
00:50:19
yeah yeah on a keyboard you're in front of the keyboard right now i'm a pretty yeah do you want me to try yeah okay so here here's what i'll do
00:50:26
i'll put this in the chat real quick i don't know can you see the uh the chat over on the side here yeah yeah here we go all right so this is a little
00:50:32
tradition we've started on this on this show which is every guest pulls up this uh typing test
00:50:38
and you get three tries and you just go right through from a to z and type the alphabet as fast as you can
00:50:44
i'm not saying it's a competition but i am saying there's a leaderboard so
00:50:50
as fast as you desire to uh to type that alphabet out okay all right well i don't want to cop out but uh the
00:50:56
keyboard i'm using right now would not be my first choice
00:51:02
okay here we go you ready yeah
00:51:12
holy smokes that was bad 6.288 that's pretty good all right take a screenshot of that oh
00:51:19
crap uh it i'm gonna top that come on here we go all right all right all right i gotta do my breathing exercises uh
00:51:26
this is always i love seeing how people prepare for this
00:51:35
crap okay that was a lot better five point two nine three okay we'll take a screenshot that's pretty good that's pretty good that is
00:51:42
definitely not the bottom of our leaderboard that's pretty good so far well boy if that's the threshold we're
00:51:48
going by okay here we go no i'm i'm being you're probably pretty close to the top not gonna lie okay last time here we go
00:51:55
i got caught up on x that's a stupid
00:52:02
letter four point four three two one approving okay here we go
00:52:08
thousand send you this screenshot can you put it in oh i don't think you can put it in the chat
00:52:14
so 4.4 you said 4.4 uh yeah oh man and then i
00:52:20
just you know how in mac os when you drag the screenshot somewhere and it
00:52:25
doesn't save that's really bad if you don't uh put it in the right spot okay there we go point four three two
00:52:33
all right that if it holds i'll do that when we get that screenshot that will be on our
00:52:38
leaderboard of 12 that would be number one
00:52:44
right above my right above my 4.5 well done thank you well done thank you
00:52:51
well guys if you want to get the keyboard that does it this is the topr real force um this is a membrane keeping
00:52:57
one it was very quiet i'll give you that it was very quiet through z well done quinn
00:53:02
all right it's been a pleasure having you on we'll probably talk more for sure about all kinds of other stuff i want to have you we'll probably talk like we
00:53:08
should do a whole other episode about like offices and being a youtuber and creating and all that stuff but always
00:53:15
glad till then yes i appreciate your time and we'll talk again appreciate it thanks mark
00:53:20
cassia awesome take care sweet my thanks again to quinn for joining us another very busy guy he's
00:53:26
making a lot of videos and if you want to check out his videos which you should fellow creator youtube.com
00:53:32
and he's made all kinds of tech videos and his latest was about the rivian r1t yeah you should definitely watch it we'll put in the show notes it's like 25
00:53:38
minutes on everything you could want to know about driving the truck using software camping with it the accessories
00:53:45
talking to people at the company it's all there uh but andrew you're back any uh any takes on what we had a
00:53:50
conversation about we covered a lot of ground there yeah i like we we started writing up the outline for this and then
00:53:56
we just messaged quinn last night because i was like he's he knows way more about this than i do he should have that conversation it was fantastic but i
00:54:02
wrote a couple things down that he mentioned um one his controversial take about like an f-150 and what people
00:54:09
normally do with it he's completely correct i'm sure like he said there are plenty of
00:54:15
pickup drivers out there who do like tow and everything with an f-150 but generally if you're towing super big
00:54:21
things and towing like as a job all the time you're getting an f 250 or something larger than that
00:54:27
yeah and ford when they came with us told us that's what they see in the numbers as well so that's right completely correct
00:54:33
and i do think like when you talk about all the different pickup trucks i don't think people understand size differences here
00:54:38
like i actually didn't realize that r1t was that much smaller but it is quite a bit
00:54:44
smaller than f-150 the f-150 is smaller than the cyber truck right like and then the h3 you saw the hummer oh my goodness
00:54:51
that thing's gigantic so the r1t feels like and quinn mentions in his video it's like an adventure
00:54:58
truck an adventure vehicle i guess it has the bed which is nice you can put some stuff on it but it's not
00:55:04
necessarily doing these regular pickup truck things right i kind of again we are sort of guilty of comparing
00:55:10
them all to each other despite them having major differences but uh you're right the people at ford would describe
00:55:16
the large majority of f-150 owners as just in case
00:55:22
towers meaning most of the time that they drive it they aren't towing anything they aren't hauling anything
00:55:27
but they like to get it just in case and sometimes they'll put something in the back and they'll be glad they got it they can bring their boat for the
00:55:33
weekend they can bring a trailer with a lawnmower on it they can throw stuff in the bed wood they can bring stuff to a job site but it's not their main thing
00:55:40
it's not like a landscaping vehicle where you're doing that every single day or huge loads yeah so the just in case
00:55:45
buyer is a different set of buyers from the i am buying this specifically because i'll be hauling all the time
00:55:51
buyer yeah and that's also i think different from the adventure crowd which may or may not even need a pickup versus
00:55:57
an suv or whatever it happens to be a good form factor for that um but that's kind of where the the rivian's i mean
00:56:03
after quinn's video and seeing the size and all the stuff it does i'm i love it i cannot afford it but it is a awesome
00:56:10
car i like the size of it i went and was test driving cars recently and i test drove like an f-150 and i i realized i
00:56:17
used to drive i used to drive my dad's at 250 i grew up learning how to drive in a ford expedition so like i was used
00:56:24
to big cars but now driving a smaller car and having an hour commute like i don't want to do that on a commute so
00:56:30
this rivien seems like an awesome kind of in-between like that and i love all the camping stuff and and all that
00:56:36
can't afford it but i'm really excited to see it i think it'll be really really awesome yeah sporty little pickup truck
00:56:42
um i am a little worried about what he said software i do think hopefully they'll fix it but it is a little
00:56:48
concerning that they're a company like you said valley based and not quite up to stuff
00:56:54
and what's funny is he mentioned the software being kind of laggy and before he even noticed that when he was just
00:56:59
showing it i was like did that just is that a frame drop or is that no that doesn't look great so
00:57:06
yeah hopefully they'll smooth that out yeah that's the funny thing about rivian taking so much from tesla is like all
00:57:12
the best stuff that tesla does is in ui and software but the optimization and
00:57:17
having things actually be super responsive and fluid didn't translate didn't make it yet at
00:57:23
least yet we may see that in a software update someone will get there eventually obviously
00:57:28
just like yeah tesla will hit manufacturing stages of some other things in quality control eventually but
00:57:34
that's newer to them and they're a software company almost to their detriment i mean one thing i really liked in quinn's video is him saying
00:57:40
like i like the fact that i can change my windshield wiper speed on the stock even like it's showing up digitally but
00:57:46
i have a physical button for it not digging around the menus and stuff like that yeah my car does that too automatically or um
00:57:53
well it has an auto and i can change with the with the button on the wheel i can change oh you can okay but i think
00:58:00
in previous no yeah in previous cars you could change the knob too i don't know okay
00:58:05
that's a little different maybe model three wires i think are different you have to do it with two different button presses
00:58:11
but yeah we'll see how long that that takes again that's been my question is what do you think will happen first will
00:58:16
tesla become a world-class high quality interior car manufacturer or will
00:58:22
tesla's competition become world-class software engineers it'll be i would yeah shrugs it's that's
00:58:29
there's so many variables there i don't know i don't really know we'll see also just destroying all of us in the in
00:58:36
the typing dude four seconds that's good he started out in like fifth jumped into fourth and then just crushed
00:58:43
the top three on a membrane keyboard this is the this is the alert to any other creators that i may or may not dm
00:58:49
asking to come on the show you can practice i mean we'll get like a mechanical keyboard but like teja will
00:58:55
come on here at some point it's out there cruise through all of us but someone's gonna get like a crazy score yeah but that's pretty great so far so
00:59:01
shout out to quinn yeah for being at the top of the leaderboard there wouldn't have it any other way great way to end it thanks for
00:59:07
listening here's our first guest first guest now number one on the leaderboard well second guest doug was like he was
00:59:13
our first first ever podcast guest though oh quinn was the first guest we've ever
00:59:18
had now we're reoccurring oh okay that's nice so you know he just had to make sure it was known that's that's
00:59:25
perfect yeah so we'll have to get more people back on sweet great way to end it thanks for everyone for joining us this week on
00:59:30
waveform and we'll talk to you guys soon in the next one peace waveform is produced by adam molina we
00:59:36
are partnered with vox media and our intra-outro music was created by vayne silt
00:59:47
you
