00:00:00
Immortality is tantalizing close
00:00:02
>> and you think it's possible within the
00:00:04
laws of physics and biology.
00:00:05
>> Yeah. In fact, we know that there's a
00:00:07
clock in our body called the tie that
00:00:09
tracks how long we're going to live and
00:00:11
there's something called talomeorase
00:00:12
which stops the clock which means that
00:00:15
we can live forever. That's the good
00:00:16
news. But the bad news was we found out
00:00:19
that cancer also uses tie and
00:00:21
talomeorase to live forever. And so the
00:00:24
question is can we apply that to humans
00:00:26
without wakening up the cancers? But
00:00:28
this is not science fiction. This is the
00:00:30
future.
00:00:30
>> And for 71 years, you've been studying
00:00:32
physics and how science will shape human
00:00:34
destiny. So how is life likely to be
00:00:36
different in the future?
00:00:37
>> Well, decade by decade, we see the
00:00:39
enormous progress that we humans have
00:00:41
made. For example, we'll probably be on
00:00:43
the moon, maybe Mars, and also the
00:00:46
artificial intelligence will help us to
00:00:47
cure cancer and many diseases. However,
00:00:50
for the first time in human history, we
00:00:52
have the potential of destroying
00:00:54
ourselves with designer germs, nuclear
00:00:56
weapons, perhaps artificial
00:00:58
intelligence. Like this is a quantum
00:00:59
computer. This is so powerful that even
00:01:02
the CIA is worried about the fact that
00:01:04
these could break into any known
00:01:07
computer,
00:01:07
>> including banks, even Bitcoin.
00:01:09
>> That's right. So, capitalism would
00:01:11
vanish. Society would come to a halt.
00:01:14
>> And what about humanoid robots? I would
00:01:15
look seriously at the possibility of
00:01:17
merging with them so that we don't have
00:01:19
a civil war. Realize that we're at the
00:01:21
edge of a knife. You tilt it the wrong
00:01:23
way and there's worlds war. You tilt it
00:01:25
the other way and there's food and
00:01:27
luxury for everyone. And it's up to us
00:01:30
to decide which way the knife will go.
00:01:32
Dr. Moaku, I've waited a long time to
00:01:35
ask someone these questions. Where do
00:01:37
you believe we came from? Do you think
00:01:39
it's plausible that in fact we are
00:01:41
living in a simulation? And then is
00:01:43
there any evidence when we look out at
00:01:44
the stars that there is non-human life
00:01:48
out there?
00:01:49
>> Okay, so first of all,
00:01:55
>> this is super interesting to me. My team
00:01:56
given me this report to show me how many
00:01:58
of you that watch this show subscribe
00:01:59
and some of you have told us according
00:02:01
to this that you are unsubscribed from
00:02:03
the channel randomly. So favor to ask
00:02:05
all of you, please could you check right
00:02:06
now if you've hit the subscribe button
00:02:08
if you are a regular viewer of the show
00:02:09
and you like what we do here. We're
00:02:11
approaching quite a significant landmark
00:02:12
on this show in terms of a subscriber
00:02:14
number. So, if there was one simple free
00:02:17
thing that you could do to help us, my
00:02:18
team, everyone here to keep this show
00:02:20
free, to keep it improving year over
00:02:22
year and week over week, it is just to
00:02:24
hit that subscribe button and to double
00:02:25
check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
00:02:27
ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
00:02:29
you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
00:02:30
I'll make sure every single week, every
00:02:33
single month, we fight harder and harder
00:02:34
and harder and harder to bring you the
00:02:35
guests and conversations that you want
00:02:37
to hear. I've stayed true to that
00:02:38
promise since the very beginning of the
00:02:39
D ofio and I will not let you down.
00:02:42
Please help us. Really appreciate it.
00:02:44
Let's get on with the show.
00:02:49
Dr. Moaku,
00:02:51
>> that's right.
00:02:52
>> For anyone that isn't aware of you and
00:02:54
your work and they're wondering whether
00:02:56
they should listen to what you have to
00:02:58
say today because they don't know your
00:03:00
work and they've not gone through the
00:03:01
the books and the interviews that you've
00:03:03
done, how would you describe your
00:03:05
experience? I work in something called
00:03:07
string theory which we think is the
00:03:09
theory that eluded Einstein for the last
00:03:11
30 years of his life. The theory of
00:03:13
everything. The theory that explains the
00:03:16
big bang, the formation of stars,
00:03:18
galaxy, formation of the earth, life.
00:03:21
I'm a physicist working in the theory of
00:03:23
everything.
00:03:23
>> What is the theory of everything?
00:03:25
>> An equation perhaps no more than one
00:03:26
inch long that will allow us to quote
00:03:29
read the mind of God. These are
00:03:31
Einstein's words. the theory of the big
00:03:34
bang, the theory of creation itself, the
00:03:36
theory of of everything.
00:03:38
>> I want to explain this in terms that
00:03:40
even the most sort of novice viewer
00:03:42
could understand. The theory of
00:03:43
everything is is an equation that
00:03:45
explains
00:03:46
>> everything.
00:03:47
>> Physics.
00:03:48
>> No, no, no. Everything. Because from
00:03:50
physics comes chemistry, comes
00:03:53
chemistry, comes biology,
00:03:55
>> and from that comes our universe.
00:03:57
>> Is it things like gravity and space and
00:03:59
time? gravity, uh, light, the nuclear
00:04:03
force. Uh, there are four fundamental
00:04:06
forces of the universe. There's the
00:04:07
gravitational force which keeps us here,
00:04:10
the electromagnetic force which lights
00:04:12
up our our world, and the two nuclear
00:04:14
forces. We want a theory that explains
00:04:17
all four.
00:04:18
>> You know, when people watch your
00:04:20
interviews and they read your books,
00:04:22
what do you think is the fundamental
00:04:24
question that they're typically seeking
00:04:26
to answer?
00:04:28
What does it mean for me?
00:04:31
>> What does what mean for me?
00:04:32
>> The physics of the future. That is we
00:04:35
physicists create the future. We're the
00:04:36
ones who understand what is possible,
00:04:38
what is not possible, and what is
00:04:40
plausible. How does that affect the
00:04:42
average person?
00:04:43
>> And there's an element of of all of us
00:04:45
that's just trying to figure out how we
00:04:47
got here, where our place is in the
00:04:50
universe.
00:04:51
>> Yeah. If especially for people who are
00:04:53
philosophical or religious, they want to
00:04:55
know what does it all mean? I mean,
00:04:57
where did I come from? Where's the
00:04:59
universe going? They want to know the
00:05:01
answer to the big questions, the
00:05:03
question of meaning. And that's what we
00:05:06
physicists do.
00:05:07
>> And they want to know if we're alone in
00:05:08
the universe.
00:05:09
>> Oh yeah, that too. That's a byproduct of
00:05:11
what we do is look for extraterrestrial
00:05:13
intelligence.
00:05:14
>> You've been doing this for many, many
00:05:16
decades now. You've been studying the
00:05:17
nature of the universe and physics. Is
00:05:20
there a fundamental misunderstanding
00:05:22
that you're aware of that the average
00:05:24
person still believes? Yeah, people
00:05:28
think that physics is for eggheheads,
00:05:30
that it's just uh doing equations on a
00:05:32
blackboard and totally divorced from the
00:05:36
average person. They don't realize that
00:05:39
everything about their life, about
00:05:41
electricity, about magnetism, about the
00:05:43
nuclear force, about industry,
00:05:46
everything comes from physics. But the
00:05:48
average person thinks that physics is
00:05:50
for eggheheads. It's for equations you
00:05:52
put on a blackboard in a cartoon. Nope.
00:05:55
is everywhere.
00:05:57
>> In the last couple of weeks, you've been
00:05:59
asked to do lots of interviews because
00:06:03
Trump has released the UFO files.
00:06:05
>> That's right.
00:06:06
>> Before we get into lots of other
00:06:07
subjects and physics generally, probably
00:06:09
start by just tackling this question
00:06:11
head on. Do you think that we are alone
00:06:16
in the universe? No, we are not alone
00:06:18
because a galaxy has 100 billion stars
00:06:21
of which maybe 10% have planets that are
00:06:25
earthlike or are similar to Earth. But
00:06:28
the question is, can they visit us? A
00:06:31
Saturn 5 rocket would take 70,000 years
00:06:34
just to reach the nearest star. Hop,
00:06:37
skip, and a jump. 70,000 years. So a
00:06:40
civilization that could reach the earth
00:06:43
would be hundreds thousands of years
00:06:45
more advanced than us. So I'm a
00:06:48
physicist. We look at that space warps.
00:06:51
Is it possible that a flying saucer race
00:06:53
could create a space warp so they can
00:06:55
visit us?
00:06:56
>> Space warp.
00:06:57
>> Bending space.
00:06:58
>> Is that possible?
00:07:00
>> Well, gravity bends space all the time.
00:07:02
The question is, can you bend space
00:07:04
enough so that you can go faster than
00:07:06
the speed of light so you can visit the
00:07:08
nearest star? That's a question mark. We
00:07:11
physicists look at that, but we have no
00:07:13
definite answer. But it's it's possible.
00:07:16
So when these people say that, you know,
00:07:18
I had a podcast uh recently where two
00:07:21
people explained to me that there's been
00:07:23
some very unusual sightings of UAPs.
00:07:27
>> Mhm.
00:07:27
>> And they use this as evidence to say
00:07:29
that aliens exist.
00:07:30
>> Mhm.
00:07:31
Do you think those sightings are
00:07:33
actually extraterrestrial life or do you
00:07:35
think it's just uh people hallucinating
00:07:38
and seeing I don't know light orbs and
00:07:41
misunderstanding what they're looking
00:07:42
at?
00:07:43
>> Well, there are three types of
00:07:44
observations. Close encounters of the
00:07:46
first kind is when you see something in
00:07:48
the sky. First kind.
00:07:51
>> Close encounters of the second kind is
00:07:53
when you have something tangible, an
00:07:55
engine, uh a body, a wreckage of a UAP.
00:08:00
That's second kind. Close encounters of
00:08:02
the third kind is when you actually
00:08:05
encounter them and shake their hand.
00:08:07
Now, where are we? We're at close
00:08:09
encounters of the first kind where we
00:08:11
see things floating in the sky, but we
00:08:14
don't know what they are. We don't have
00:08:15
anything tangible. Now, in science
00:08:17
fiction, we've captured the flying
00:08:19
saucer. We have the aliens in a case or
00:08:22
so. That's the movies. We have yet to
00:08:25
see an alien in in a laboratory. We have
00:08:28
yet to see an alien ship. In other
00:08:30
words, people say, "I saw something."
00:08:33
Now, what does that mean? I'm a
00:08:34
physicist. We go where the we go where
00:08:37
the observation goes. And we have no
00:08:40
observations to verify what you saw.
00:08:44
Except, of course, sensationalists who
00:08:45
say, "I've seen the bodies." Okay, show
00:08:48
us.
00:08:50
>> So, from that, I conclude that you don't
00:08:52
believe alien life has arrived here on
00:08:55
Earth. I don't I I I'm open to the
00:08:57
possibility. 95% of the sightings we can
00:09:00
we can uh explain using the known laws
00:09:03
of physics. 5% are either optical
00:09:06
illusions or they are evidence of
00:09:09
visitation. You can't rule it out. So,
00:09:11
I'm open to the idea that maybe they're
00:09:13
here. Now, President Trump has released
00:09:17
the first mountain load of 160 uh
00:09:20
encounters of alien technology, we
00:09:22
think, but we haven't yet seen a close
00:09:25
encounter of the second kind. When that
00:09:27
happens, that's a game changer. When we
00:09:30
have a piece of UFO hardware, that would
00:09:33
that would nail it to the wall right
00:09:35
there. There's the a narrative that the
00:09:37
US government or generally governments
00:09:39
around the world wouldn't want the
00:09:40
people to know about aliens because
00:09:43
they're not ready for it. Do do you buy
00:09:45
that?
00:09:46
>> That's the traditional uh excuse for not
00:09:49
revealing these things. But the other
00:09:51
excuse is that it's a cover. It's a
00:09:53
cover for the stealth bomber. It's a
00:09:56
cover for the fact that the military
00:09:57
does experiment with aerodynamically
00:10:00
novel forms of transport. And so those
00:10:04
are the reasons why the military keeps
00:10:05
it a secret and actually lies about
00:10:09
these things. But now the it's leaking
00:10:12
out. Congress, the president of the
00:10:14
United States, they're demanding these
00:10:16
these u sightings to be declassified. So
00:10:19
we physicists now are analyzing them to
00:10:22
see whether or not they're really real
00:10:23
or not. Is there any evidence when we
00:10:25
look out at the stars that there is
00:10:29
nonhuman life out there? Is there
00:10:31
anything that you've seen when you look
00:10:33
at other planets and how they're
00:10:36
operating that might suggest there's a
00:10:38
different type of life there?
00:10:40
>> Oh, yeah. But there's no tangible
00:10:42
evidence for it yet, though.
00:10:43
>> Give me one example.
00:10:45
>> Well, uh, for example, take a look at
00:10:46
Alpha Centauri, the closest star system
00:10:48
to the planet Earth, right?
00:10:50
>> How far away is that?
00:10:51
>> Four and a half light years. And if you
00:10:53
take a look at the Alpha Centauri
00:10:55
system, the closest system to the Earth,
00:10:57
you have uh red red stars that could
00:11:01
could have life on them. We're not sure.
00:11:04
They're not super hot, super large, in
00:11:07
which case it would be very difficult to
00:11:08
get life forms off the ground. But the
00:11:10
point I'm raising is that the Milky Way
00:11:12
galaxy, our backyard, has 100 billion
00:11:15
stars. And the probability of life
00:11:18
existing among those stars is almost
00:11:21
100%. The question is can they reach us?
00:11:24
That means is it possible to create a
00:11:25
space warp such that you can break the
00:11:27
light barrier so that you can travel
00:11:31
across the galaxy and visit the earth.
00:11:33
>> And did you say that was theoretically
00:11:36
possible?
00:11:36
>> It's theoretically possible. Yeah. But
00:11:38
of course you need energy, fantastic
00:11:40
amounts of energy. But the laws of
00:11:42
physics do allow for the possibility of
00:11:44
space warps. I mean, you've seen space
00:11:47
warps on Star Trek, but where does Star
00:11:49
Trek get the word space warps? It comes
00:11:52
from physics.
00:11:53
>> I also heard you telling um I think it
00:11:55
was Joe Rogan, you were telling a story
00:11:57
of one particular
00:11:59
star that reduces in its intensity by
00:12:03
20%.
00:12:05
>> Yeah, there is a star that that
00:12:06
oscillates.
00:12:07
>> What does that mean?
00:12:08
>> So, it drops by about 20%. So it's it's
00:12:11
it's reducing its light
00:12:14
>> output
00:12:15
>> by 20%.
00:12:16
>> That's right.
00:12:16
>> How often?
00:12:17
>> You don't have to wait for centuries.
00:12:19
It's within a matter of months to years.
00:12:21
>> A star that reduces frequently reduces
00:12:24
its light output by 20%.
00:12:26
>> Yeah. Which is very unusual. It's the
00:12:28
only one we saw we've seen so far.
00:12:30
>> You explained one of the theories, I
00:12:32
think, when you first talked about this
00:12:34
was that a civilization might have built
00:12:36
something around that star.
00:12:38
>> Oh, yeah. That's one of several theories
00:12:40
that a civilization that advanced would
00:12:42
have tremendous energy needs.
00:12:43
>> Mhm.
00:12:44
>> And the easiest way to get energy is by
00:12:47
encircling the mother star with an
00:12:50
envelope. And the envelope then would
00:12:52
absorb most of the energy. In fact, that
00:12:55
was an episode of Star Trek. They meet a
00:12:57
star that is totally enveloped by a
00:12:59
metal shell. The aliens left it
00:13:03
centuries ago, but you know, it can't be
00:13:05
ruled out. The theory goes that an
00:13:08
advanced civilization will surround it
00:13:09
with like a metal sphere to capture its
00:13:11
energy.
00:13:12
>> Yeah.
00:13:13
>> And that would explain why we see a 20%
00:13:16
reduction in the light output.
00:13:19
>> No, they think that it's probably an
00:13:21
orbiting an orbiting globe that eclipses
00:13:24
the mother star.
00:13:26
>> Ah,
00:13:26
>> rather than envelops the mother star, it
00:13:29
simply goes around the mother star and
00:13:31
eclipses it. Um, so it'd be like a big
00:13:34
ball that that circles the star
00:13:36
extracting
00:13:36
>> and that would cause a dip. It would
00:13:38
cause a dip in the intensity of light.
00:13:40
>> As far as we see it,
00:13:41
>> as far as we see it, right?
00:13:42
>> Because this big ball is sometimes
00:13:44
moving in front of it.
00:13:45
>> That's right. Exactly.
00:13:46
>> Why couldn't it just be a planet?
00:13:48
>> Planets are not that big. Planets are
00:13:50
about about 1% like Jupiter is about 1%
00:13:52
the size of the sun. So the sunlight
00:13:55
would drop by about 1 or 2% if Jupiter
00:13:58
goes in front of our sun.
00:14:00
>> Oh, I've got you. So this is much
00:14:02
bigger. It's huge.
00:14:05
>> You've um
00:14:07
you've written a lot of books
00:14:10
>> about the universe and physics and
00:14:13
everything in between. I've waited a
00:14:15
long time to ask someone this question
00:14:17
and it's a very broad question and the
00:14:18
question is where do you believe that we
00:14:21
came from?
00:14:23
Where do you believe that life came
00:14:25
from? Where do you believe this universe
00:14:27
came from?
00:14:28
>> Well, the universe came from the big
00:14:30
bang. The question is where did the big
00:14:31
bang come from? Right.
00:14:34
>> Okay. So, what is the big bang?
00:14:36
>> The big bang is a cosmic explosion that
00:14:38
took place around 14 or so billion years
00:14:40
ago that uh created the expanding
00:14:45
universe.
00:14:46
>> How do we know that happened?
00:14:48
>> Because we have evidence of this
00:14:51
expansion that took place, you know, 14
00:14:53
or so billion years ago. We see the
00:14:55
stars moving away from us. So, think of
00:14:58
a big balloon. the big balloon with uh
00:15:01
points of light on the balloon and the
00:15:03
balloon is expanding and the stars are
00:15:06
moving away from each other.
00:15:07
>> That's what we see today. Not moving
00:15:09
toward each other. All the stars are
00:15:11
moving away from each other like the
00:15:12
sphere is expanding. And so we believe
00:15:15
in the in the uh the big bang theory and
00:15:18
we believe that the universe is
00:15:19
expanding rather than contracting.
00:15:22
>> Expanding into what?
00:15:24
>> Hyperspace.
00:15:26
>> What's that? Uh well we live in a
00:15:28
four-dimensional universe. Three
00:15:29
dimensions of space, one dimension of
00:15:32
time. We live in a in a four-dimensional
00:15:34
universe. But in string theory, we
00:15:36
believe that there are 11 dimensions
00:15:38
altogether.
00:15:39
>> String theory is something that you came
00:15:42
up with.
00:15:43
>> I came up with string field theory,
00:15:44
which is one of the branches of string
00:15:46
theory. Right.
00:15:47
>> And what is string theory?
00:15:49
>> String theory
00:15:52
says that what is a proton? What is an
00:15:54
electron? They're nothing but vibrations
00:15:57
of a string.
00:16:00
So from a distance, this looks like a
00:16:03
point particle. From a distance, this is
00:16:04
an electron. But if you could magnify
00:16:07
that, we find out it's not really a
00:16:10
point at all. It's really a vibrating
00:16:12
string. And each vibration corresponds
00:16:14
to a node. So this would be a proton.
00:16:19
This would be an electron. This would be
00:16:21
a neutron. This would be a neutrino.
00:16:24
That's why we have so many subatomic
00:16:25
particles.
00:16:26
>> Okay. So to to simplify this in a way
00:16:28
that I understand, you're saying that at
00:16:30
the very base layer, particles are the
00:16:34
same, but they're just strings that are
00:16:36
basically vibrating differently.
00:16:38
>> That's right.
00:16:38
>> And that would be the the sort of
00:16:40
foundational matter of everything.
00:16:41
>> That's right. Everything is basically a
00:16:44
vibrating string. So when the string
00:16:46
vibrates in this direction, we call it
00:16:48
an electron. If it vibrates in this way,
00:16:51
we call it a proton. So, why do we have
00:16:54
so many subatomic particles? How many of
00:16:56
them are there? Hundreds. We've seen
00:16:59
hundreds of subatomic particles. And how
00:17:02
could mother nature be so malicious to
00:17:05
create a universe at the fundamental
00:17:07
level based on hundreds of different
00:17:09
kinds of of strings vibrating in
00:17:12
different directions? Well, it's really
00:17:14
just one string. One string that can
00:17:17
vibrate in different modes. Each mode is
00:17:20
called a particle.
00:17:21
>> Why does it need to be a string?
00:17:23
We don't know why things are. We just
00:17:25
I'm a physicist. We just try to figure
00:17:27
out the way things really are. But it
00:17:29
would explain why there's so many
00:17:31
particles.
00:17:32
We used to think there was an electron,
00:17:34
a proton, and neutron. And that's it.
00:17:36
That's it. Period. Nope. We've seen
00:17:40
pimezones. We've seen lambda particles,
00:17:42
omega particles, hundreds of subatomic
00:17:44
particles. Why do we build atom smashers
00:17:47
outside Chicago, outside Geneva? huge
00:17:50
gigantic atom smashers smashing atoms
00:17:52
apart. Why? Because then from the debris
00:17:56
we begin to figure out these vibrations
00:17:58
are particles.
00:18:00
We can categorize them. We can give them
00:18:02
names and that gives us a quote a theory
00:18:05
of everything.
00:18:07
So we have what is called the standard
00:18:09
model which explains all the subatomic
00:18:11
particles other than gravity. And it and
00:18:15
we create these particles with their
00:18:16
atom smashers
00:18:18
>> which is the big machines where they
00:18:19
fire atoms at each other in in Geneva
00:18:21
and so on around the world to figure out
00:18:23
>> that's the large hon collider right but
00:18:25
now we realize that there's another
00:18:27
octave there's another layer even beyond
00:18:29
what we see with the large hron collider
00:18:32
dark matter
00:18:34
dark matter is invisible matter that
00:18:36
surrounds the Milky Way galaxy and we
00:18:39
don't know what it is there's a Nobel
00:18:40
Prize waiting for somebody who could
00:18:43
figure about what dark matter is. It's
00:18:45
invisible matter. Invisible matter that
00:18:48
surrounds the entire Milky Way galaxy.
00:18:50
We think that we cannot yet prove that
00:18:53
it's nothing but the next octave.
00:18:54
>> What do you mean by octave?
00:18:56
>> Vibration. In other words, this would be
00:18:58
the lowest vibration which is
00:19:00
corresponds to an electron. But their
00:19:02
other vibration is much bigger and they
00:19:04
they would correspond to a higher
00:19:06
octave.
00:19:06
>> How do we know it's there if it's
00:19:07
invisible?
00:19:08
>> Well, this a guess. But it turns out
00:19:10
that when you do the math and you look
00:19:12
at the vibration of a string and you
00:19:14
look at the higher vibrations, some of
00:19:16
them are invisible. In other words, they
00:19:18
don't interact with light. Now, we know
00:19:21
that this interacts with light.
00:19:22
Therefore, we can see it.
00:19:24
>> But these are the lowest vibrations.
00:19:26
Some of the higher vibrations are
00:19:27
invisible. And so, we think that's what
00:19:30
dark matter is.
00:19:31
>> I guess this all comes back to the
00:19:32
question we're talking about the big
00:19:33
bang.
00:19:35
You know scientists tend to agree that
00:19:37
there was some kind of big bang because
00:19:38
when you look at the universe it's
00:19:39
expanding outwards. So one would if you
00:19:41
rewind time at some point there was a
00:19:44
central
00:19:46
point where something where a big an
00:19:49
explosion occurred if you reverse time.
00:19:54
I mean it begs the question
00:19:57
what caused the big bang.
00:20:00
>> Well we don't know but there are
00:20:02
theories. String theory is a theory even
00:20:04
before the big bang. It's a theory of
00:20:07
everything. The big bang in some sense
00:20:09
is a misnomer because it disguise the
00:20:12
fact that we're ignorant. We're ignorant
00:20:14
of what caused the thing to bang. String
00:20:17
theory, there was no bang. That is it
00:20:20
did collapse. If you go backwards in
00:20:22
time, it did collapse with a very small
00:20:24
thing and then came out again. It
00:20:25
bounced. Oh,
00:20:27
>> okay.
00:20:28
>> So, we think that there could be a
00:20:30
bubble bath of universes. What do you
00:20:32
mean by a bubble bath of universes?
00:20:34
>> Our universe is a bubble of some sort
00:20:36
and the bubble is expanding and that's
00:20:38
called the big bang theory which fits
00:20:39
all the data. But we think there are
00:20:41
other bubbles out there. In other words,
00:20:44
string theory says that we live not just
00:20:47
in a four-dimensional world but in a
00:20:50
11dimensional world. These other
00:20:52
dimensions we cannot see but we think
00:20:55
that the universe coexists with other
00:20:57
universes. There's a bubble bath. Think
00:21:01
of bubbles, soap bubbles floating in in
00:21:03
the vacuum.
00:21:04
>> What about marbles? So, when you're
00:21:06
talking about bubbles, you know,
00:21:10
could you mean like kind of like this?
00:21:12
>> Right. Okay. Give me the big one.
00:21:15
>> All of them.
00:21:17
>> All right. Okay. So, let's say this is
00:21:19
the sun.
00:21:20
>> Yeah.
00:21:21
>> And these are planets, asteroids,
00:21:24
whatever. And they're going around
00:21:27
they're going around the sun.
00:21:28
>> Mhm. Why? Why are they going around the
00:21:31
sun like that? Okay, it's because this
00:21:34
exerts gravitational force that is
00:21:37
pulling these things toward toward the
00:21:40
sun.
00:21:41
>> The Earth is just one. Asteroids are
00:21:43
none of the other. Saturn and Jupiter,
00:21:46
they're nothing but planets going around
00:21:48
the mother star. And so then the next
00:21:51
question is why? Why is it that planets
00:21:54
are going around the sun? It's because
00:21:57
the sun is warping the space around it.
00:22:01
Is creating a shallow depression.
00:22:04
Space is not flat. This is Einstein's
00:22:06
achievement. You go in this direction,
00:22:09
seems flat. You go in this direction,
00:22:11
everything seems to be flat, right? But
00:22:13
no, the earth for example is round, but
00:22:15
it looks flat, but it's not. The
00:22:18
universe looks flat, but it's not. It's
00:22:21
curved. And that's why planets go around
00:22:24
the mother star because gravity is the
00:22:28
byproduct of the warping of space. And
00:22:31
that's why we are sitting on this chair
00:22:34
right now. Why are we here? How come
00:22:37
we're not flying in outer space? The
00:22:39
earth is spinning, right?
00:22:41
>> The earth is spinning. We should be
00:22:42
flung out into outer space. So how come
00:22:45
we're here?
00:22:45
>> Gravity.
00:22:46
>> Gra. What is gravity, though? That's
00:22:48
just a word, right? Right? Just because
00:22:50
the mass of the earth is so much greater
00:22:52
than us that it pulls us in.
00:22:54
>> Okay. Well, why is it pulling us in?
00:22:56
Einstein says that the reason why the
00:22:58
earth is pulling us in is because the
00:23:01
earth warps the space around us and is
00:23:04
pushing us into the floor. That's why
00:23:08
the solar system works the way it does
00:23:09
because the sun grabs the planets and
00:23:12
forces the planets to move in a curved
00:23:15
line because it's curved space that is
00:23:19
causing it to move this way.
00:23:21
>> And going back to what you were saying
00:23:22
about the bubble bath idea,
00:23:25
>> right? Then the question is, are there
00:23:27
other stars? Yes. Are there other
00:23:29
galaxies? There billions and billions of
00:23:31
planets out there. We think that the
00:23:33
whole shebang is curved. We're nothing
00:23:35
but inhabitants of the skin of this
00:23:37
gigantic bubble. Now we're saying that
00:23:41
maybe there are other bubbles out there.
00:23:44
A multiverse. A multiverse of universes,
00:23:47
parallel universes. In fact, word
00:23:50
multiverse has gotten into the
00:23:52
literature. Comic books now refer to the
00:23:54
multiverse, Spider-Man and things like
00:23:56
that. So it's even part of the
00:23:58
vernacular the the common language of
00:24:01
the average person that we believe in
00:24:03
parallel universes. So yeah these
00:24:05
parallel universes come from physics
00:24:10
>> and the other thing that comes from
00:24:11
physics is black holes.
00:24:13
>> That's right. If this star becomes so
00:24:17
massive that its gravity is so great
00:24:20
that it pulls the entire shebang in
00:24:25
like this. Mhm.
00:24:27
>> And then that would be a black hole.
00:24:30
And we now believe that at the center of
00:24:32
almost every galaxy we see, and there
00:24:35
are trillions of galaxies, we think that
00:24:37
at the center of these galaxies, there's
00:24:39
a black hole.
00:24:40
>> Even our galaxy, the milk,
00:24:42
>> even our galaxy, right? If you look at
00:24:44
the direction of Sagittarius, the
00:24:45
constellation Sagittarius, there's a
00:24:47
black hole there. So tonight, go
00:24:50
outside, look for the constellation
00:24:52
Sagittarius, and there's a black hole at
00:24:54
the center of our own backyard that
00:24:57
holds the Milky Way galaxy together.
00:25:01
>> So, how did it get there?
00:25:02
>> Well, we think that it's a remnant of
00:25:04
the Big Bang that when the Big Bang
00:25:06
exploded,
00:25:07
clusters of matter begin to contract
00:25:10
other clusters of matter.
00:25:11
>> And this is where the galaxies and the
00:25:13
planets come from. The condensation of
00:25:16
the matter ejected out of the big bang
00:25:18
gives you the galaxies, the solar
00:25:21
systems and the planets.
00:25:23
>> So if I use this as an example, there
00:25:26
was the big bang and all the pieces flew
00:25:29
everywhere
00:25:30
>> and then because of gravity the pieces
00:25:33
came together and they got so
00:25:36
so uh so big so much mass that they
00:25:38
collapsed inwards. We're not sure about
00:25:41
exactly which came first, the galaxy
00:25:43
came first or the black hole came first.
00:25:46
But let's assume for the moment that the
00:25:48
black hole came first. Gas concentrated
00:25:51
into a small area called the black hole
00:25:54
and then it drew all the other stars and
00:25:58
galaxy around it to create the Milky Way
00:26:00
galaxy. We're not sure, but that's one
00:26:02
possibility of where it came from. And
00:26:05
where did that come from? That in turn
00:26:07
came from the explosion that created the
00:26:09
universe roughly 14 billion years ago.
00:26:12
>> Am I right in thinking black holes they
00:26:15
are extremely dense like areas of matter
00:26:18
and they if you were to go near one
00:26:20
everything that goes near it gets sucked
00:26:21
in.
00:26:21
>> That's right. And you never get out
00:26:22
again. If this is a a black hole, there
00:26:25
is a ring or a sphere surrounding it. A
00:26:29
point of no return. You go towards the
00:26:32
black hole and you pass this this ring
00:26:35
and then you go into the black hole
00:26:37
never to be seen again. It's a point of
00:26:39
no return.
00:26:40
>> How do we know that?
00:26:41
>> Well, we've never seen it happen, but we
00:26:43
can calculate the escape velocity. In
00:26:46
other words, if you want to leave the
00:26:47
Earth, how fast do you have to move to
00:26:49
leave the Earth? 7 miles per second. Our
00:26:52
astronauts travel 7 miles per second to
00:26:55
reach the moon. Okay, that's called
00:26:58
escape velocity. So every gravitating
00:27:01
piece of matter has an escape velocity
00:27:03
for the Earth is 7 miles per second.
00:27:06
What about the escape velocity of a
00:27:09
black hole? It's the speed of light.
00:27:13
That's why if you fall through the event
00:27:16
horizon of a black hole, you never come
00:27:18
out because otherwise you would have to
00:27:19
go faster than the speed of light, which
00:27:21
is not possible. So you go in, but you
00:27:24
never come out. That's why it's called
00:27:26
black holes.
00:27:27
>> What's in there?
00:27:30
If you knew, you'd win a Nobel Prize.
00:27:33
>> This area has loads and loads of mass
00:27:36
inside it. It's sucking things into it.
00:27:38
So, one would assume that there was a
00:27:39
lot inside there, but it's tiny, right?
00:27:42
Black holes are tiny.
00:27:43
>> We don't know how big they are. We think
00:27:45
at the very center it could be very
00:27:47
small. We're not sure. No one's ever
00:27:49
been there because if you go past the
00:27:51
event horizon, you never come out again.
00:27:53
>> What do people think is inside a black
00:27:55
hole? I'm thinking of it's just this
00:27:57
area in space that looks black on a when
00:27:59
you look at it and think it can suck in
00:28:03
planets,
00:28:04
anything.
00:28:06
>> If I were to take a guess, I would say
00:28:08
that it's an entrance. It's a gateway
00:28:12
perhaps to another universe.
00:28:16
We think for example if I have a warp
00:28:18
space and you fall into warp space if if
00:28:22
the warp space is powerful enough it may
00:28:25
come out again on the other side. So
00:28:28
there may be another universe on the
00:28:30
other side of a black hole. We're not
00:28:32
we're not sure. Of course, if you want
00:28:34
to go to Alpha Centauri with a Saturn 5
00:28:37
rocket, it would take 70,000 years to
00:28:41
reach the nearest star with our most
00:28:44
powerful rocket. Very impractical. You
00:28:48
need a shortcut and that's uh that's the
00:28:51
gateway called a wormhole which is very
00:28:54
similar to a black hole. A little bit
00:28:56
different but very similar.
00:28:57
>> How long have you been studying physics
00:28:59
in the universe now?
00:29:01
Since I was 8 years old, I've been
00:29:04
studying the universe.
00:29:06
>> 71 years.
00:29:07
>> Yeah. When I was 8 years old, a great
00:29:11
scientist had just died. It was in all
00:29:13
the newspapers and the newspaper said
00:29:16
that he failed on his last try to create
00:29:21
a theory of everything. So, I was
00:29:24
fascinated by this idea that this man
00:29:27
was attempting to find the final theory.
00:29:29
You're talking about Einstein.
00:29:30
>> That's right. Later, I found out the
00:29:32
man's name was Albert Einstein. And at
00:29:34
that point, I said to myself, that's for
00:29:37
me. That's what I want to work on. I
00:29:39
want to be part of this great journey to
00:29:42
complete Einstein's dream of a theory of
00:29:45
everything. And that's what I do for a
00:29:47
living. I work with Einstein's
00:29:48
equations.
00:29:50
>> So, for 71 years, you've been trying to
00:29:52
understand the universe and create this
00:29:54
theory for everything. In that time, how
00:29:57
is your perspective on
00:30:00
God
00:30:02
developed?
00:30:04
>> Yes. Most of my family were Buddhists.
00:30:07
>> Mhm.
00:30:08
>> Coming from Japan,
00:30:10
but my father was a Christian
00:30:13
>> and put me in Sunday school. So, I had
00:30:17
the benefit of two religions as a child.
00:30:21
Now, I'm a physicist.
00:30:23
And physicists are quote agnostic. They
00:30:25
don't take a position. They simply go
00:30:28
where the physics takes them into areas
00:30:31
that are distasteful, mysterious,
00:30:34
whatever. You go where the evidence
00:30:36
goes. And that's what I am today. In
00:30:39
other words, we have the laws of
00:30:41
physics. We have string theory which
00:30:43
takes us to the instant of the big bang
00:30:45
and even before even before the creation
00:30:47
of the universe. But then the next
00:30:49
question is where does string theory
00:30:51
come from? Okay, at that point we have
00:30:54
to say that that's where our ignorance
00:30:56
takes over. We simply don't know.
00:30:59
>> What about simulation theory?
00:31:03
>> Do you think it's plausible that in fact
00:31:05
we are living in a simulation?
00:31:08
>> I would say the answer is probably no.
00:31:10
>> Probably no.
00:31:11
>> That's right. Simulation theory is
00:31:14
basically
00:31:15
saying that the universe is a puppet
00:31:17
show and there's a script. We're we're
00:31:20
living out the script because somebody
00:31:22
is pulling our strings. First of all,
00:31:25
that violates quantum theory. Quantum
00:31:27
theory believes in probabilities.
00:31:30
Probabilities that I'm sitting here
00:31:32
today, probabilities that maybe one day
00:31:34
I'll go into outer space. We can
00:31:37
calculate the probabilities of atomic
00:31:38
events, chemical events with accuracy
00:31:41
that is incredible.
00:31:43
But simulation theory is not one of
00:31:45
them. The theory which was um proposed
00:31:49
by philosopher Nick Bostonramm says that
00:31:52
there's three possibilities logically.
00:31:54
Either number one that um humanlike
00:31:57
civilizations always destroy themselves
00:32:00
before they get to the point where they
00:32:01
can do advanced hyperrealistic
00:32:04
simulations. And if you think about
00:32:06
things like I know virtual reality at
00:32:08
the moment or video games and you
00:32:09
imagine them on a spectrum, if they just
00:32:11
get 1% better a year, at some point they
00:32:14
are indistinguishable from this reality
00:32:16
that we're experiencing now. So theory
00:32:18
one, we wipe ourselves out before we get
00:32:20
to the point where we're advanced enough
00:32:22
in hyperrealistic simulations. Theory
00:32:24
number two, or possibility number two,
00:32:26
is that advanced civilizations do exist,
00:32:30
but they have zero interest in
00:32:31
simulating their ancestors, which would
00:32:33
be us. Or theory number three is that we
00:32:35
are a simulation and civilizations do
00:32:37
survive and they do run millions of
00:32:39
simulations because there would be
00:32:42
millions of fake universes and only one
00:32:44
can be base reality in this scenario and
00:32:46
the mathematical odds are incredibly
00:32:48
high that we are currently living inside
00:32:49
one of those simulations and not in base
00:32:51
reality. Well, my personal point of view
00:32:54
is there there's option four that you
00:32:57
don't mention and option four is that
00:33:00
there is no simulation at all that all
00:33:02
this talk is nothing but fairy tales.
00:33:05
Fairy tales that we tell our children to
00:33:07
amaze them about the universe. But you
00:33:10
see the universe is based on
00:33:11
probabilities. Probabilities that
00:33:14
uranium will fire for example which
00:33:17
gives us nuclear weapons. probability
00:33:19
that hydrogen can fuse and that gives us
00:33:21
stars. So the universe is based on
00:33:25
probabilities not on simulations.
00:33:28
Do you think what we're seeing? This is
00:33:30
a strange question to ask because again
00:33:32
there's so many def definitions within
00:33:34
it but do you think what we're seeing is
00:33:36
real? Like do you think this is you know
00:33:38
cuz people do psychedelic drugs and I
00:33:40
hear about things like DMT. You inhale a
00:33:43
little bit of smoke and suddenly
00:33:44
everything you see is different. And you
00:33:47
meet people talk about how they've met
00:33:49
other types of life when they've taken
00:33:51
an an inhale of DMT, they've interacted
00:33:54
with some type of other life form. So I
00:33:57
guess all this is to say that if our
00:33:59
perceived reality is that fragile where
00:34:01
we inhale one of smoke and suddenly
00:34:04
we're amongst a different life form,
00:34:07
then it makes us question whether this
00:34:10
is real at all.
00:34:12
And also like just to extend it a little
00:34:14
bit further. If one inhalation of smoke
00:34:17
and I guess you could think about that
00:34:18
as a bunch of small particles can
00:34:21
interrupt something in my brain that
00:34:23
causes me to believe that I'm in a
00:34:25
different universe. Then doesn't that
00:34:28
prove that my reality is just the
00:34:32
projection of a very fragile small
00:34:34
amount of particles that are right now
00:34:36
lined up so that I see you and this.
00:34:40
Well, I think the answer to that is that
00:34:42
what you consider to be reality
00:34:46
is really a partial fiction
00:34:49
that your senses are limited by what
00:34:52
your senses can retrieve from the
00:34:54
outside world. But it's only a teeny
00:34:56
weeny little fraction of what actually
00:34:58
exists. Look at the electromagnetic
00:35:01
spectrum of light for example. You can't
00:35:03
see all the ultraviolet radiation, the
00:35:06
infrared, x-rays. This room is full of
00:35:10
realities that you can't see. Most of
00:35:12
what you see is a fragment, a teeny
00:35:16
insyweensy little fragment of reality.
00:35:19
You can't see cosmic rays. You can't see
00:35:21
ultraviolet radiation. So, what I'm
00:35:23
trying to tell you is that you live in
00:35:26
an illusion. It's a good illusion for
00:35:28
survival. But in terms of being able to
00:35:30
see the full spectrum of reality as it
00:35:33
exists, no. There's no way. So you think
00:35:38
reality is everything. Nope. It's only a
00:35:41
tiny tiny insyweensy little fragment of
00:35:44
reality. And then talking about this
00:35:46
reality, that's a fantasy on top of a
00:35:50
fantasy. The first fantasy is that you
00:35:53
think that what you see is real and
00:35:54
everything. That's the first fantasy.
00:35:57
The second fantasy is there's a fantasy
00:35:59
within the first fantasy. So you're
00:36:02
you're going layer upon layer of
00:36:04
fantasies. Now, let me give you another
00:36:06
example. Let's say you hear rustling in
00:36:08
the forest. You think it's a tiger
00:36:10
there. Nine times out of 10, there's no
00:36:14
tiger there. But how come your senses
00:36:17
are constantly alerting you to the
00:36:19
tiger? And that is evolution.
00:36:22
Evolution gives you the ability to see
00:36:25
things that are not really there at all
00:36:27
because it's good for survival. One time
00:36:30
there is a tiger and it saves your butt.
00:36:34
In other words, why are we here today?
00:36:36
We're here today because our senses are
00:36:38
overactive. Our senses think there's a
00:36:41
lion. There's a tiger there. Well,
00:36:42
there's no lion or tiger there at all.
00:36:44
But it was good for our survival. Okay?
00:36:47
So, our senses are only necessary for
00:36:50
our survival. That's why we cannot see
00:36:52
infrared. We cannot see ultraviolet. We
00:36:55
cannot see the whole spectrum of
00:36:57
reality, radio, everything. saying we
00:36:59
can't see it all because it was not
00:37:01
necessary for our survival.
00:37:04
>> Why does life matter in the universe?
00:37:07
Like what what function does life have
00:37:09
in the universe?
00:37:10
>> I think we create our own meaning
00:37:12
individually.
00:37:14
>> I think there's no universal meaning for
00:37:16
life in general, but I think each of us
00:37:19
create our own meaning. I was saying
00:37:21
this because you were talking about, you
00:37:23
know, survival and I was just wondering
00:37:24
if there was some universal reason why
00:37:26
survival is so important to the
00:37:29
universe. But and
00:37:31
>> survival is important for the universe
00:37:32
cuz we survival writes history. If
00:37:35
there's no survival, there's nothing to
00:37:37
write. There's no memories. There's no
00:37:40
uh stories to tell. Nothing. There's
00:37:42
just a vacuum of space.
00:37:44
>> I was also asking that, I guess, because
00:37:46
you were saying how we only see one
00:37:49
version of reality. Mhm.
00:37:51
>> And so one would assume therefore that
00:37:52
there's another version of reality that
00:37:53
we can't even see. I mean I've heard
00:37:54
this before from physicists, you know,
00:37:56
and if you just think about different
00:37:58
animals, the bat sees a different
00:38:01
version of reality to the whale.
00:38:03
>> Like sonar for example.
00:38:04
>> Sonar for example. Even my dog, my dog
00:38:07
seems to see a completely different
00:38:08
version of reality than the one I see.
00:38:10
>> It smells much better than you. Alactory
00:38:12
nerves of a dog are infinitely better
00:38:14
than our alactory nerves in our nose.
00:38:17
They have a different reality. I guess
00:38:19
it begs the question like what is all of
00:38:20
this then?
00:38:22
>> Well, you're talking about the meaning
00:38:23
of life for which I have no answer.
00:38:25
Sorry about that.
00:38:27
>> I guess that was what I was asking but I
00:38:28
wasn't asking that wasn't what I was
00:38:30
intent on asking. But that's the base
00:38:31
question which is what's the point.
00:38:34
>> I'm not even sure if the universe has a
00:38:36
point. But my personal attitude is we
00:38:38
create our own point. We create our own
00:38:41
world and meaning within that world. It
00:38:44
could be different from another person's
00:38:46
meaning and understanding of the world,
00:38:48
but it's good enough for me.
00:38:50
>> What do you think of the um human sort
00:38:52
of proclivity to imagine a god and to
00:38:55
assign meaning and morality to that god
00:38:57
and say, well, you know, cuz we do have
00:39:00
this we do live with this kind of
00:39:01
god-shaped hole in our lives where we
00:39:03
don't really know where we came from. We
00:39:05
don't know what the point is. So, I
00:39:06
understand why it's tempting to say this
00:39:09
book that someone wrote once upon a time
00:39:11
that says this person, this thing
00:39:14
created us and these are the rules and
00:39:16
this is what good is, this is what bad
00:39:18
is, this is what we get if we follow the
00:39:20
rules. You know, as humans, we want
00:39:22
that.
00:39:23
>> Yes. And I think there's a reason for
00:39:24
that. And the answer is evolution. What
00:39:27
holds animals together? The alpha male,
00:39:30
the top dog. As humans became more
00:39:33
intelligent over millions of years,
00:39:36
humans bicker, we argue, we challenge
00:39:40
the leader and then tribes would fall
00:39:42
apart because you need some glue. You
00:39:46
need some glue to hold it together. And
00:39:49
if everyone becomes intelligent
00:39:50
uniformly, there's no glue anymore.
00:39:53
Everyone bickers, I'm the leader. No,
00:39:55
I'm the leader. So on and so forth. So
00:39:57
what happens is one person comes up and
00:39:59
says, I'm stronger than you. and I talk
00:40:01
to somebody even stronger than me, God.
00:40:05
And if you disobey me, then God will
00:40:08
strike you down. In other words, God is
00:40:10
a glue. God is a glue that holds
00:40:13
sensient beings together when there's no
00:40:17
reason to hold them together anymore and
00:40:19
they bicker and they the tribe falls
00:40:21
apart. What holds the tribe together?
00:40:25
God. Who is God? Well, God is not here,
00:40:28
but the son of God is here. And the son
00:40:32
of God says, "You got to do this, you
00:40:33
got to do this, you got to do this, and
00:40:35
you got to obey me." Why? Because I'm
00:40:37
the messenger. I'm the son of God. So, I
00:40:40
think religion has a definite purpose.
00:40:44
The purpose of religion is a glue to
00:40:46
hold sensient, intelligent beings
00:40:48
together.
00:40:50
>> What What do you think consciousness is?
00:40:52
>> Consciousness, I think, is a question of
00:40:54
awareness. the ability to create ideas
00:40:58
about you know why I mean what does it
00:41:01
mean meaning to give meaning to things
00:41:04
otherwise things become meaningless
00:41:06
so I think that's the purpose of
00:41:08
consciousness is to give us an awareness
00:41:10
of meaning do you think um these big
00:41:14
questions will ever be answered around
00:41:16
like where we came from what the point
00:41:17
is do you think we'll ever have answers
00:41:19
to these things
00:41:20
>> probably not however we have this
00:41:22
instinctive urge to to explore,
00:41:27
>> to look for new territories and new
00:41:29
ideas. And that is what I think keeps us
00:41:32
going. Animals do not have that. You
00:41:35
can't tell a dog, aren't you thrilled
00:41:37
that we're going to this new new house,
00:41:39
this new whatever, right? And dog says,
00:41:41
"No, just give me my my dinner." So, I
00:41:44
think that humans are different. The
00:41:47
purpose of the front part of our brain,
00:41:49
the cerebral cortex that holds us
00:41:51
together, it's a time machine.
00:41:54
It asked the question, "What's going to
00:41:56
happen in the future?" If you don't
00:41:58
believe me, go to your dog tonight and
00:42:00
ask your dog, uh, what did he do last
00:42:03
night? Uh,
00:42:05
and the dog will just bark.
00:42:08
No interest in what's happened
00:42:10
yesterday, what's happened tomorrow. We
00:42:13
constantly think about the future. We
00:42:15
can't help it. We are constantly
00:42:18
thinking about what's for dinner
00:42:19
tomorrow, who's my friend, who's my
00:42:20
enemy, what's going to what am I going
00:42:22
to do next year, what college am I going
00:42:24
to go to. We are obsessed with the
00:42:27
future.
00:42:28
That's what separates us from the animal
00:42:31
kingdom. Animals do not care about the
00:42:34
future. They just care about survival.
00:42:37
We, on the other hand, are obsessed with
00:42:39
the future because that's where our
00:42:41
survival lies. And why is that? Because
00:42:44
we don't have claws, we don't have
00:42:47
fangs, we don't have huge muscles, we
00:42:50
can't run very fast, we can't fly. We're
00:42:53
not like the animals. We are dependent
00:42:55
upon the front part of our brain. And
00:42:59
that's why we ask these questions that
00:43:01
you just asked. Why are you asking these
00:43:04
questions? Because you're programmed to
00:43:06
ask these questions. Animals are not.
00:43:09
I mean on the subject of intelligence
00:43:12
there is now new types of intelligence
00:43:14
amongst us. One of them um is referred
00:43:16
to as artificial intelligence
00:43:19
which is actually modeled on how the
00:43:20
brain works. You know I've sat here with
00:43:22
some of the experts in AI and they've
00:43:24
told me that they learned a lot about
00:43:25
the human brain um and how it reasons
00:43:29
and um how it processes information with
00:43:32
these neural nets as they call it which
00:43:34
is um a concept that that has been
00:43:37
inspired by the brain. And with that
00:43:39
they've started to build these very
00:43:40
intelligent machines which a lot of
00:43:42
people are now using in terms of large
00:43:44
language models like chatbt but but
00:43:46
we're going further and further into the
00:43:48
world of artificial intelligence. So I
00:43:50
mean one's going to one would reason
00:43:51
that the future looks very very very
00:43:53
different because of this new type of
00:43:55
intelligence and that it's going to
00:43:56
accelerate maybe a lot of the
00:43:57
discoveries and you know that we've
00:43:59
we've pondered about today but also that
00:44:02
it's going to change life as we know it.
00:44:03
And I mean some people even think that
00:44:04
human life won't be the dominant form of
00:44:07
intelligence in such a world.
00:44:10
What do you think?
00:44:11
>> Yes, I think that is a definite problem.
00:44:13
Right now I think a lot of our robots
00:44:16
have the intelligence of a bug,
00:44:19
>> an insect. They don't plan, they can't
00:44:22
articulate their thoughts and so so
00:44:24
forth. But they carry out orders very
00:44:26
well. But eventually it's only a matter
00:44:29
of time before they become as smart as a
00:44:31
mouse. then as smart as a rabbit, then
00:44:34
as smart as a dog or a cat, and finally
00:44:37
as smart as a monkey. At that point,
00:44:40
they are potentially dangerous.
00:44:43
>> The AI models though that are available
00:44:45
now are PhD level in terms of
00:44:49
intelligence.
00:44:50
>> No, you cannot talk PhD physics with
00:44:53
them. uh they're programmed they're
00:44:56
programmed to have certain ways of
00:44:59
thinking about certain things, but
00:45:01
they're not original. You can't come up
00:45:03
with a new theory of physics talking to
00:45:05
a robot. They basically take what is
00:45:08
programmed into them and work with that.
00:45:11
Now, eventually they may become
00:45:13
creative. Okay. But I think that's going
00:45:15
to take several decades before we are at
00:45:17
that point.
00:45:19
>> When you say creative, what's your
00:45:21
definition of creative in that context?
00:45:23
Robots right now take what is available
00:45:25
to them and rearrange things like
00:45:27
writing a book.
00:45:28
>> Isn't that what humans do? Don't we take
00:45:30
information and rearrange it?
00:45:31
>> Oh yeah, but we come up with new ideas
00:45:33
>> based on that information. The AIS can
00:45:36
make a photo that has never existed
00:45:37
before.
00:45:38
>> So isn't that by definition
00:45:40
>> on the basis of what did exist before?
00:45:42
In other words, something new,
00:45:44
>> but basically a rearrangement of
00:45:46
something that already existed. So, I'm
00:45:48
saying, you know, the Michael Jackson
00:45:49
documentaries just come out recently,
00:45:51
and you see Michael Jackson, the way he
00:45:53
moves, and you look at it and go, "Wow."
00:45:55
Like, no one's ever moved like that
00:45:56
before. And then my friend sent me this
00:45:58
video um which was what Michael Jackson
00:46:02
was actually inspired by, and it's this
00:46:04
um I'll throw it up on the screen so
00:46:06
other people can see, but it was
00:46:07
something that came before Michael
00:46:09
Jackson, and it was this guy who moved
00:46:11
in this very interesting way. And when I
00:46:12
watched this guy, I saw Michael Jackson.
00:46:14
Mhm.
00:46:14
>> And so you look up someone like Michael
00:46:16
Jackson and you go, "Oh my god, an
00:46:17
unbelievable creative genius artist."
00:46:18
But even he was inspired by by See if I
00:46:21
can get it to play. Even you see, even
00:46:23
he was inspired
00:46:25
>> by this individual. And then if I if I
00:46:27
play it forward, I mean, this is how
00:46:29
Michael Jackson moved,
00:46:30
>> right? Well, art, the bottom line of art
00:46:33
is mimicry. That's the bottom line of
00:46:36
art, except you arrange things in an
00:46:37
original way so it looks fresh. Am I
00:46:40
right in thinking that with Newton he
00:46:44
took the existing laws of physics and he
00:46:48
>> which were negligible
00:46:50
>> and he proposed
00:46:51
>> there were no laws of physics before
00:46:52
Newton
00:46:53
>> and he proposed a question.
00:46:55
>> Mhm.
00:46:55
>> And then he tested that question and
00:46:58
found an answer.
00:46:59
>> He asked himself a question. How come
00:47:01
the earth goes around the sun? and he
00:47:04
came up with an idea that was totally
00:47:07
different from what people had had
00:47:08
thought about before. He came up with
00:47:10
calculus. He came up with the inverse
00:47:12
square law. So what I'm saying is true
00:47:15
creativity comes from almost nothing and
00:47:17
it's like a supernova. Well, creativity
00:47:20
of a robot is imitative. Now there's
00:47:23
nothing wrong with that because of
00:47:25
course imitative artwork is still
00:47:27
artwork but it's imitative. Do you
00:47:30
believe people like uh like the big um
00:47:32
AI CEOs and Elon Musk when they say that
00:47:35
AI will lead to new discoveries in
00:47:37
science?
00:47:38
>> That's possible because there's so many
00:47:40
laws of physics that are known that many
00:47:43
of the new laws of physics are imitative
00:47:45
and you rearrange them and combine them
00:47:47
in different ways. So it's possible that
00:47:50
the big breakthroughs of the future will
00:47:53
be guided by breakthroughs of the past.
00:47:55
There's nothing wrong with that. H are
00:47:58
you concerned about AI at all?
00:47:59
>> I'm concerned about AI in the larger
00:48:01
perspective
00:48:03
that one day they can learn to do things
00:48:07
that are bad, learn to kill, learn to
00:48:11
maim to harm people. Realize that every
00:48:15
invention that we've made in the past
00:48:17
like the bow and arrow could be used for
00:48:19
good and bad. Everything. Okay? that the
00:48:23
bow and arrow could be good for game,
00:48:25
for food, for eating, but a bow and
00:48:29
arrow could be good for slaughtering
00:48:30
your your next door neighbor. Any new
00:48:33
invention has a double-edged sword to
00:48:35
it. And so, I think that so far most of
00:48:38
the applications of artificial
00:48:41
intelligence have been positive. We're
00:48:43
talking about labor costs. We're talking
00:48:45
about creating wealth. We're talking
00:48:46
about making things faster, cheaper,
00:48:49
better. That's all great, but you can
00:48:52
also create artificial intelligent
00:48:54
weapons as well. And the battlefield is
00:48:57
where it's happening. And if you take a
00:48:59
look at what's happening in the Ukraine
00:49:01
and uh Russia already, we're talking
00:49:05
about aerial weapons that can use wires
00:49:11
to lock onto their target.
00:49:14
>> And they use artificial intelligence to
00:49:17
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00:49:19
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00:49:22
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Going back to this this this question of
00:51:33
the the Big Bang and where we all came
00:51:35
from,
00:51:36
if you had to posit a guess as to what
00:51:40
caused the Big Bang, would you land on
00:51:42
this bubble bath theory that you talked
00:51:44
about where there's just lots and lots
00:51:45
of universes, some of them are
00:51:47
contracting and expanding. Is that where
00:51:49
you would personally land?
00:51:51
>> Probably. If you take a look at empty
00:51:53
space, we now believe that empty space
00:51:56
is frothing. frothing with little
00:51:58
bubbles. Bubbles that pop into existence
00:52:01
and then annihilate and go back into
00:52:03
nothingness again. So even pure
00:52:06
nothingness is chalk full of activity.
00:52:10
And one day we think one day one of
00:52:12
these tiny little bubbles decided not to
00:52:15
go back into the vacuum but to keep on
00:52:18
expanding and expanding and that became
00:52:21
the big bang. And so that theory says
00:52:24
that the universe is dynamic and that
00:52:26
universes are being created all the
00:52:28
time.
00:52:28
>> What about Adam and Eve? And this
00:52:32
>> what about Adam and Eve?
00:52:33
>> Do you don't think the story is true
00:52:34
that there was a a garden, Adam and Eve,
00:52:36
Adam the apple, put your clothes on,
00:52:38
behave yourself and then you know we all
00:52:42
come from there. Well, I think there's
00:52:44
evolution and evolution did create life
00:52:47
forms that are single-sellled,
00:52:49
multi-selled and then cells with a
00:52:52
nervous system like fish and then fish
00:52:55
became land moving uh organisms. So, I
00:53:00
think there's a linear progression.
00:53:02
>> But you don't believe the stories told
00:53:04
in the first testament of the Bible
00:53:05
around how humans came to be. God
00:53:08
created the world in seven days. You
00:53:09
don't believe that stuff?
00:53:11
>> Well, I think it's a fairy tale. I think
00:53:13
it's a very compelling fairy tale, but I
00:53:16
think that even the people who teach
00:53:18
religion realize it as a metaphor that
00:53:21
we don't really mean 24 hours in a day
00:53:24
because that deals with the earth in the
00:53:26
universe. There could be other worlds
00:53:29
where a day is not 24 hours. A day does
00:53:32
not look like what the Bible says in
00:53:34
Genesis. So I think it's a um it's a way
00:53:37
to organize your religion into a way
00:53:40
that is digestible and and people can
00:53:42
understand it and it touches people
00:53:45
which is a which is the purpose of
00:53:47
religion. The purpose of religion is to
00:53:49
touch people to bring them together into
00:53:51
a commonality and that's what the story
00:53:54
of Genesis does. Religion in some sense
00:53:56
is a way to help people to show people
00:54:00
guidance the good life so that you don't
00:54:04
terrorize other people that you make
00:54:06
life better for other people not that it
00:54:09
explains the meaning of existence but it
00:54:12
gives you a reason for existence
00:54:15
>> and you would consider yourself to be an
00:54:17
atheist
00:54:18
>> no uh I'm agnostic I believe that
00:54:21
there's a lot of truth because it's a
00:54:22
way of behaving it's a way of learning
00:54:26
how to be good to your neighbor is a
00:54:28
glue that holds things together. Not
00:54:31
that it gives meaning for life, but it
00:54:33
shows the way.
00:54:35
>> It shows the way. And and the subject of
00:54:38
morality is often so intrinsically
00:54:40
linked to religion, which is what is
00:54:41
good and what is bad. Where does your
00:54:43
morality come from, doctor? Well, I was
00:54:46
in the United States Army for two years
00:54:51
and at that point I had to face death
00:54:55
and I had to face war. It was the height
00:54:58
of the Vietnam War. There were 500 GIS
00:55:02
dying every week. Every week, Life
00:55:06
magazine published an issue where they
00:55:09
had the pictures, just the pictures with
00:55:11
no commentary of all the GIS that died
00:55:14
that week with no commentary. No, I told
00:55:18
you so. Just the pictures of those
00:55:21
people that died. And then I realized
00:55:24
that I would have to put my life on the
00:55:26
line because my number was up and people
00:55:30
were going into the military
00:55:33
and people were realizing well war is
00:55:36
the way people you know work out their
00:55:39
differences.
00:55:40
But then I began to realize being in the
00:55:43
military
00:55:44
that there is a morality there. I began
00:55:48
to realize that the people that we were
00:55:50
fighting had their own religion. They
00:55:54
had their own way of looking at good and
00:55:56
evil and whatever. And they were willing
00:55:59
to sacrifice their life for their own
00:56:02
freedom. I began to question religion at
00:56:05
that point. Is it just a glue that holds
00:56:08
people together? Is there a deeper
00:56:10
meaning to the whole thing? So, one day
00:56:13
I was learning how to throw hand
00:56:14
grenades and our our sergeant who was
00:56:18
explaining to us how to throw hand
00:56:20
grenade had scars on one side of his
00:56:23
face, big scars on his neck. And we
00:56:27
asked him why.
00:56:29
And he said, "Well, one day a little
00:56:32
Vietnamese boy came up to him and the
00:56:35
Vietnamese boy says, "Candy, candy. You
00:56:38
want candy?" And the GI says, "No, no,
00:56:41
no. Get away from me. I don't want
00:56:42
candy. Well, the little boy showed what
00:56:45
was in his hand. It was a hand grenade.
00:56:48
It was not candy at all. And the little
00:56:51
boy threw the hand grenade at the
00:56:53
sergeant. Well, the sergeant immediately
00:56:55
saw what the danger was and he hit the
00:56:58
ground as soon as he could flat on the
00:57:00
ground. The grenade exploded and one
00:57:03
half of his body got saturated with
00:57:06
shrapnel. And then you have to ask
00:57:08
yourself a question. Why would a young
00:57:11
boy do something like this? It's because
00:57:13
he believed in something. And I think
00:57:16
there was a real big lesson for me. And
00:57:18
that is you have to believe in
00:57:20
something. You have to believe in the
00:57:23
goodness of men and also the fact that
00:57:25
men can do evil. And you have to fight
00:57:28
for what you think is right. And
00:57:31
therefore, it's not just a question of
00:57:34
we're number one. We're going to win
00:57:35
this war.
00:57:37
I used to sing a song in the morning. I
00:57:39
want to go to Vietnam. I want to kill a
00:57:41
Charlie Kong. I used to sing that every
00:57:44
morning at 4:00 in the morning. And then
00:57:47
I asked myself now why were we on the
00:57:50
right side of the wrong side? And then
00:57:52
at that point you begin to question what
00:57:54
is right and what is wrong? And then you
00:57:57
realize maybe I'm on the wrong side.
00:58:03
>> Maybe I'm on the wrong side. I mean, it
00:58:05
goes back to all the conflict happening
00:58:06
at the moment because we're
00:58:08
ideologically captured by whatever our
00:58:10
own religious beliefs are and that's
00:58:12
causing us to turn against each other
00:58:13
each other and cause so much pain and
00:58:15
suffering in the world. Do you think
00:58:17
there's any chance that this could at
00:58:19
all change or is this just part of the
00:58:22
human condition? Well, if you take a
00:58:25
look at the human condition, you realize
00:58:27
that warfare has been an integral part
00:58:31
of our evolution as a species. Even in
00:58:35
the animal kingdom, animals will fight
00:58:38
against other animals. And so my hope,
00:58:41
however, is that we're different from
00:58:43
the animals. We have a brain. We can
00:58:46
make moral decisions. Animals do not
00:58:49
understand the meaning of a moral
00:58:50
decision. animals is survival is who's
00:58:54
stronger, who has the food. We don't
00:58:57
necessarily have to engage in that
00:58:59
conflict. And so I would hope that we
00:59:02
use the brain that we have to think
00:59:04
through and create a better world. One
00:59:08
of the things I heard when I was very
00:59:10
young about the universe, and I guess
00:59:12
this was inspired by some theory within
00:59:14
physics, was that there are infinite
00:59:16
amounts of worlds out there. And I heard
00:59:18
this I heard someone say if the world is
00:59:20
infinite that means that there's a
00:59:22
someone like me a Steven Bartlett who
00:59:24
has an identical life to me up there
00:59:26
somewhere out in the stars who's living
00:59:29
a identical life to mine maybe other
00:59:32
than instead of in this cup there's
00:59:35
lemonade instead of coffee. This is what
00:59:37
they call is it called the many worlds
00:59:39
theory where they think there's
00:59:40
theoretically
00:59:41
>> it's a version of the many worlds theory
00:59:43
but most many worlds theory simply says
00:59:46
that there's an infinite number of
00:59:47
universes and worlds out there none of
00:59:50
them necessarily identical to ours but
00:59:54
independent of us that that is a
00:59:56
distinct possibility
00:59:57
>> but if there's infinite numbers that
00:59:59
means there's one just like this
01:00:01
identical to this
01:00:02
>> not necessarily you can have an infinite
01:00:04
number of things that don't repeat so in
01:00:06
other words
01:00:06
>> you necessarily have to have another
01:00:09
civilization that is exactly like ours.
01:00:12
You could, but it's not necessary. If
01:00:15
you believe in an infinite universe,
01:00:17
>> it's true, I guess. Do you think that's
01:00:19
plausible that there's an infinite
01:00:21
number?
01:00:21
>> It's possible. When you look at the when
01:00:22
you look at the night sky,
01:00:25
you're overwhelmed by the majesty of the
01:00:27
night sky and then you realize that
01:00:30
we're nothing but a dot, a dot on this
01:00:32
gigantic disc called the Milky Way
01:00:34
galaxy. And if this is the Milky Way
01:00:37
galaxy, then here we are thinking that
01:00:40
this is the entire universe. This is
01:00:42
nothing but a pinpoint on the Milky Way
01:00:45
galaxy. And how many galaxies are there?
01:00:48
We're talking about trillions of
01:00:49
galaxies that are out there. Each one
01:00:52
containing roughly 100 billion stars.
01:00:55
How are we supposed to feel about this?
01:00:56
I I did this um star tour um a couple of
01:00:59
months ago in LA where all it was was a
01:01:02
guy took me out to a field. not even a
01:01:03
field. It was the desert in Joshua Tree
01:01:05
at nighttime. And he just explained how
01:01:07
far away all the stars are. And then I
01:01:10
looked through a telescope and he was
01:01:11
like, "Okay, this thing you're seeing
01:01:12
here is a galaxy and it's a gazillion
01:01:15
miles that way and this one is a galaxy
01:01:16
as big as the Milky Way and it's a
01:01:18
gazillion miles that way." It made me
01:01:20
feel a lot of things. It made me feel
01:01:21
one irrelevant from a cosmic
01:01:24
perspective. It also relieves one's
01:01:27
anxiety. If anyone's anxious about this
01:01:29
life, you kind of feel like you're not
01:01:31
you don't matter that much. But also, it
01:01:33
can make you feel like it doesn't
01:01:34
matter, like there's no point because I
01:01:38
think there's a certain ego to humans
01:01:39
where we want to think it really,
01:01:41
really, really matters. Now, it might
01:01:43
matter to us, but does it actually
01:01:45
matter to the universe? That does our
01:01:47
lives matter to the universe?
01:01:49
>> Well, I like to think of it slightly
01:01:51
differently. I think on the other side
01:01:53
of the Milky Way galaxy, there's an
01:01:55
alien
01:01:56
>> who's writing the same equation that I'm
01:01:58
writing down right now in different
01:01:59
language, in different notations. But
01:02:02
he's also discovering string theory. And
01:02:04
there are a lot of galaxies out there,
01:02:06
each one with an individual saying,
01:02:08
"Gee, I think I discovered something new
01:02:10
about the universe." And these laws are
01:02:13
universal.
01:02:15
The equations that I'm writing down
01:02:17
right now are identical in different
01:02:20
language with equations that they're
01:02:22
writing down billions of light years
01:02:24
from us. And that gives me a sense of
01:02:27
oneness.
01:02:28
It gives me a sense that wow, we're part
01:02:31
of a a fellowship. We're part of a
01:02:34
camaraderie. We're on the same quest, a
01:02:37
quest to understand the nature of matter
01:02:39
and energy. We're on the same boat. Even
01:02:43
though we're speak different language,
01:02:45
even though we're on different sides of
01:02:46
the universe, we're all part of the same
01:02:48
club. Don't you think it's plausible
01:02:50
that we're going to destroy ourselves
01:02:51
before we we ever figure that answer out
01:02:54
or before we get to meet these aliens?
01:02:57
Because the technology we've been able
01:02:58
to create so far like nuclear weapons
01:03:00
and even things like AI, you play this
01:03:03
forward just on, you know, you talked
01:03:05
about probabilities being the most
01:03:06
important thing. The probability that
01:03:09
one of these egoomaniacs who has the
01:03:13
launch codes for a nuclear weapon at
01:03:15
some point decides that they're unhappy
01:03:17
or they feel threatened is pretty high
01:03:20
if you just extend time. I mean, the
01:03:21
probability goes up theoretically with
01:03:23
every year that passes that someone is
01:03:26
going to do make a mistake that wipes us
01:03:29
out. And the more advanced our science
01:03:31
gets, presumably, I mean, again, I'm
01:03:34
just theorizing, the higher the
01:03:36
probability that we create something
01:03:37
that can destroy ourselves.
01:03:39
>> Well, I like to look at it slightly
01:03:40
differently. I say to myself, what is
01:03:43
the smallest unit of history?
01:03:47
And I say it's the decade. Anything
01:03:50
smaller than a decade, you get random
01:03:52
fluctuations, noises, accidents taking
01:03:54
place on a decade. But if you look at
01:03:56
human history, decade by decade by
01:03:59
decade, you realize that oh my god, just
01:04:02
a few decades ago, it was horse and
01:04:05
buggy. Before that, we we just uh had
01:04:08
plows. Before that, we were barbarians.
01:04:12
And you begin to realize that we've come
01:04:14
a long ways. Not that we hit the end,
01:04:17
but we've come a long ways just in the
01:04:19
decade by decade analysis of the history
01:04:22
of the human race.
01:04:23
>> And we've got closer to being able to
01:04:24
destroy ourselves.
01:04:25
>> That that's true, too. Because before we
01:04:27
couldn't destroy ourselves. Now, for the
01:04:29
first time in human history, we have the
01:04:32
potential of destroying ourselves with
01:04:34
designer germs, with nuclear weapons,
01:04:37
with perhaps artificial intelligence. We
01:04:40
didn't have that capability before. And
01:04:43
it's only been in the last 80 years or
01:04:45
so as a consequence. So I think that
01:04:48
first of all it means that every decade
01:04:51
tremendous progress is made. There's no
01:04:52
doubt about that. But second we're a
01:04:55
knife's edge. You tilt it the wrong way
01:04:58
and there's world war. You tilt it the
01:05:00
other way and there's food and luxury
01:05:04
for everyone. And it's up to us to
01:05:07
decide which way the knife will go. But
01:05:10
my point is decade by decade we see the
01:05:14
enormous progress that we humans have
01:05:17
made. The next question is what about
01:05:19
the next few decades? That's a big
01:05:22
question mark.
01:05:23
>> Do you think humanity are going to be
01:05:24
able to travel out there amongst the
01:05:26
stars and become multilanetary like
01:05:28
someone like Elon Musk is um planning?
01:05:31
>> Well, I think it's for certain that
01:05:33
we're going to go not just to the moon
01:05:35
but to Mars and maybe even beyond that.
01:05:39
Then maybe not in our lifetime but in
01:05:42
our grandchildren's lifetime we may
01:05:45
break through and visit other planets
01:05:47
within our our solar system. Now to go
01:05:51
beyond that would require some sort of
01:05:53
warp drive because of the fact that the
01:05:56
nearest star is probably orbiting Alpha
01:06:00
Centauri which is 4 and a half light
01:06:04
years away from the planet Earth. So you
01:06:06
realize it would take hundreds if not
01:06:08
thousands of years to begin the
01:06:10
colonization of the nearby star systems.
01:06:14
There should be a button just down below
01:06:16
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And if you're not subscribed, please
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but you haven't yet hit that button.
01:06:31
Thank you so much. If you could answer
01:06:33
any one mystery of the universe, you
01:06:37
know, I just I had it down here, the
01:06:39
answer. What What would you seek to
01:06:41
answer? Well, it's what I'm seeking for
01:06:43
my entire life. And that is we want that
01:06:46
one equation which is the secret of the
01:06:49
universe. We have the electromagnetic
01:06:52
force equation that's like half an inch
01:06:54
long. We have the equation for gravity
01:06:58
that's also about half an inch long. So
01:07:01
why not the theory of everything maybe
01:07:03
an inch long? We're not there yet, but I
01:07:06
think it does exist. And if we were to
01:07:09
find it, that would give us an
01:07:11
understanding of the entire universe.
01:07:13
And I think we're very close.
01:07:14
>> You think we're close?
01:07:15
>> I think we're close.
01:07:17
>> What makes you think we're close?
01:07:19
>> Because so far the theories that we do
01:07:21
have almost like magic. You look at the
01:07:24
history of the equations of physics and
01:07:26
you realize they get they get simpler
01:07:28
and simpler and simpler with time. You
01:07:31
can write down Newton's equation back
01:07:33
equations the equation for the nuclear
01:07:35
force on one sheet of paper. One sheet
01:07:38
of paper. The force that governs gravity
01:07:42
we don't have that yet. But we have the
01:07:44
other forces and the equations are very
01:07:46
simple. And that's why I think that the
01:07:48
final equation will also be simple. One
01:07:51
of the things that uh that sometimes
01:07:53
inspires me is that when you look at
01:07:54
nature or when you look at something
01:07:56
like the human brain, you see the same
01:07:58
patterns as you see when you look up out
01:08:00
at the stars. And one of the I mean I'm
01:08:02
so fascinated by the nature of the human
01:08:04
brain because it seems to be so so
01:08:06
powerful. And it also seems to have
01:08:09
patterns we see in the wider universe.
01:08:12
Do you ever think about this about the
01:08:14
brain and how astonishing it is as a as
01:08:16
a thing? Well, when I look at the
01:08:18
animals, that makes me triply impressed.
01:08:22
The fact that animals cannot share in
01:08:24
that, that we see a universe that the
01:08:27
animals cannot see. We see patterns. We
01:08:30
see meaning. We give rhyme and reason to
01:08:33
what we see. With animals, it's just
01:08:36
where's my dinner?
01:08:37
>> Do you think the brain is as fascinating
01:08:39
as the universe is fascinating?
01:08:41
>> I think the universe is more
01:08:43
fascinating. No matter how fast we are
01:08:45
with physics and the mathematics of
01:08:47
physics, pure mathematics is still more
01:08:52
more profound. You wrote this book
01:08:54
called The Physics of the Future: How
01:08:56
Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our
01:08:58
Daily Lives by the Year 2100?
01:09:01
If I was alive in 2100, based on
01:09:04
everything you know about physics, what
01:09:06
am I likely to see, experience? How is
01:09:08
life likely to be different in that
01:09:09
future? Well, I think we'll probably be
01:09:12
on the moon, maybe to Mars, and perhaps
01:09:15
even dream about sending the first space
01:09:17
probes. Even beyond that, we're talking
01:09:19
about being able to
01:09:23
use artificial intelligence to send
01:09:25
probes out there. Of course, we're not
01:09:27
going to go to the stars. That's that's
01:09:30
a few hundred years into the future, but
01:09:33
I think that we will begin to to
01:09:34
understand the solar system within this
01:09:36
century.
01:09:38
And this also means that we'll have
01:09:39
artificial intelligence,
01:09:41
a cure for cancer, and maybe one will
01:09:45
aid the other. Maybe artificial
01:09:47
intelligence will help us to cure cancer
01:09:49
and many diseases and longevity. Perhaps
01:09:53
we'll begin the process of solving the
01:09:56
immortality crisis.
01:09:57
>> Do you think we will be able to live
01:09:58
forever in the near future?
01:10:00
>> I think there's a possibility that we
01:10:01
may have an indefinite lifespan. I think
01:10:04
that's a possibility. And you think it's
01:10:07
possible within the laws of I guess
01:10:09
physics and biology?
01:10:11
>> Yes. Um at the end of our chromosomes of
01:10:14
every cell, there's something called the
01:10:15
tiemers. And the tieummers are like a
01:10:18
clock. They get shorter every time a
01:10:21
cell reproduces. And when the tiemer
01:10:23
gets so short, it frays, falls apart,
01:10:27
and you die. So we have a time limit.
01:10:30
We've also discovered talomeorase, a
01:10:33
chemical that stops the clock. This was
01:10:36
incredible when it was first announced
01:10:38
that if there's a clock in our body
01:10:40
called the tie that tracks how long
01:10:43
we're going to live and there's
01:10:45
something called tomease which stops the
01:10:48
clock then can we live forever? Well,
01:10:51
that was the good news. Then the bad
01:10:53
news was we found out that most of to
01:10:56
our shock cancer also uses tieumirs and
01:11:00
tomeorase to live forever. Why does
01:11:03
cancer kill you? Because they are
01:11:06
immortal in principle they could they
01:11:08
could live forever. And so it means that
01:11:12
the secret of immortality is tantalizing
01:11:14
close. We do know that there are cells
01:11:17
that make immortality possible but
01:11:20
there's a price to pay. The price to pay
01:11:22
is you don't want cancers to also follow
01:11:25
you. So here's the trick of the game. We
01:11:28
have a whole bunch of top people in the
01:11:31
sciences and medicine looking for ways
01:11:34
to extend the human lifespan with the
01:11:36
tie without wakening up the cancers that
01:11:41
make cancer possible. One of the uh
01:11:44
things you wrote a book about two years
01:11:45
ago in or three years ago now in 2023
01:11:48
and that's when it was published. Um is
01:11:50
this thing here?
01:11:53
That's right. What is this?
01:11:56
This is
01:11:57
the future. This is a quantum computer.
01:12:01
It's a computer that computes not on
01:12:03
transistors, which is oldfashioned. It
01:12:05
computes on atoms. Think about that. The
01:12:09
ultimate object beyond the transistors
01:12:12
that you can compute with is the atom.
01:12:15
And how do transistors work? Transistors
01:12:18
can be up or down. Up or down. It's
01:12:21
called digital.
01:12:21
>> Can you demonstrate that on there? And
01:12:23
this is your other
01:12:24
>> Yeah. So, think of this as a cell. And
01:12:27
the cell could either be switched on.
01:12:29
>> Yeah.
01:12:29
>> Or switched off. If you take a computer
01:12:31
and open it up, what do you find?
01:12:33
Switches like this. They're called
01:12:34
transistors. transistors that tell you
01:12:37
whether it's on or off.
01:12:39
>> Now that's digital. This is the
01:12:42
revolution of today. This is the
01:12:45
revolution of tomorrow.
01:12:47
Not just up or down of in between. How
01:12:51
many states are there between zero and
01:12:53
one in principle? An infinite number of
01:12:56
states between zero and one. So this is
01:13:00
the basis of a digital computer. Mhm.
01:13:02
>> This is the basis of a quantum computer.
01:13:06
Quantum computers are so powerful that
01:13:08
even the CIA is worried that one day,
01:13:11
perhaps in the future, they'll be so
01:13:14
powerful they'll be able to break into
01:13:16
any known digital code. So even the CIA
01:13:20
is worried about the fact that these
01:13:22
could become so powerful that they allow
01:13:24
you to break into any known computer. So
01:13:29
these are called quantum computers. Why
01:13:31
are they powerful? Because they compute
01:13:33
not on transistors. They compete on
01:13:35
atoms. And you can't get much smaller
01:13:38
than an atom and have stable matter. But
01:13:41
that's what quantum computers can do.
01:13:42
And they exist. This is not science
01:13:44
fiction. They already exist. So just to
01:13:46
simplify this in a way that I can
01:13:48
understand it, normal computers are very
01:13:51
very simple like this switch. They they
01:13:52
kind of exist in a linear direction
01:13:55
>> up or down on or off
01:13:56
>> kind of binary yes or no.
01:13:58
>> That's right. Whereas a quantum computer
01:13:59
is more like this where it can it can
01:14:02
process information in so many different
01:14:04
directions at the same time so that it's
01:14:06
going to be way more powerful
01:14:08
>> way more powerful way down
01:14:10
>> and I was looking recently and Google um
01:14:14
did an announcement not actually this
01:14:16
year where they basically set a deadline
01:14:18
for the cyber security world and they
01:14:20
started to warn governments and banks
01:14:22
and other tech giants that because they
01:14:25
have a quantum computer now that is very
01:14:27
very powerful
01:14:28
They're worried that it will be able to
01:14:30
crack a lot of the digital worlds that
01:14:32
we all rely on, including banks, even
01:14:34
Bitcoin, which was quite interesting.
01:14:36
And they've set 2029
01:14:39
as the the deadline for everybody to get
01:14:42
their together. This is a massive
01:14:44
threat to things like Bitcoin, which is
01:14:45
Bitcoin is essentially secured by a
01:14:48
equation that they believe quantum
01:14:51
computers are going to be able to very
01:14:53
easily crack. And if they do that, then
01:14:55
everyone's Bitcoin, for example, is um
01:14:58
is at jeopardy. But beyond Bitcoin, what
01:15:01
does the world look like in a world
01:15:02
where we have these incredible
01:15:03
computers? Well, first of all, who's
01:15:06
doing this work? And it turns out the
01:15:09
CIA is following this work very
01:15:12
carefully because with this, you'll be
01:15:14
able to crack any code. Why is it that a
01:15:17
thief cannot steal your bank account
01:15:19
today? is because that thief does not
01:15:22
have your digital code. If a thief had
01:15:25
your digital code, there goes your life
01:15:27
savings out the window. Capitalism would
01:15:29
vanish. Society would would come to a
01:15:32
halt. There'd be civil war. It'd be all
01:15:35
sorts of chaos taking place. But codes
01:15:38
are there not to be broken. To break a
01:15:41
code, you have to have another code. And
01:15:44
so the CIA and other organizations
01:15:46
create these very complicated codes that
01:15:49
you have to master. Quantum computers
01:15:53
can do it, but we're not there yet. But
01:15:56
it's coming. I don't know when. Some
01:15:59
people say in a few decades. Some people
01:16:01
say sooner. I don't know. I just know
01:16:04
that the world is gambling that we'll
01:16:07
find a way to stop quantum computers
01:16:11
from breaking into digital computers.
01:16:14
>> You've been working on physics for the
01:16:16
last what we said what 71 years as a
01:16:20
kid. I I was reading about how you
01:16:23
started making your own atom smasher. I
01:16:26
guess you'd call it a particle collider
01:16:28
machine.
01:16:29
>> That's right. When I was in high school.
01:16:31
That's a very strange thing for a high
01:16:33
school kid to be doing.
01:16:35
>> Well, I was fascinated by the work of
01:16:37
Einstein and the work of people working
01:16:40
on subatomic particles and I got
01:16:42
interested in antimatter.
01:16:44
>> Antimatter.
01:16:45
>> Antimatter is the opposite of matter.
01:16:47
When I combine matter and antimatter, I
01:16:49
get a bomb. So, you have to be very
01:16:51
careful that you don't marry matter with
01:16:54
antimatter. And antimatter behaves the
01:16:57
opposite of ordinary matter. If ordinary
01:16:59
matter goes clockwise in magnetic field,
01:17:02
antimatter goes counterclockwise in that
01:17:05
same magnetic field. And so as a science
01:17:07
project, I wanted to photograph the
01:17:10
tracks of antimatter. So I got hundreds
01:17:14
of miles of copper wire, built a cloud
01:17:16
chamber, and I was able to prove that I
01:17:19
could photograph the tracks of
01:17:21
antimatter. And for that, I won grand
01:17:24
prize at the San Francisco Science Fair.
01:17:26
And that began my my career. Just before
01:17:29
I graduated from high school, I decided
01:17:32
to top that by creating an atom smasher
01:17:35
at 2.3 million electron volt betatron
01:17:38
particle accelerator.
01:17:40
It consumed 6 kilowatts of power.
01:17:43
Everything that my mother's house had,
01:17:45
it would absorb. And that was the goal
01:17:48
to build a machine that would create my
01:17:50
own beam of antimatter. So I got started
01:17:53
very early. And I said to myself, this
01:17:56
is for me. This is what I want to do for
01:17:58
a living.
01:17:59
>> Every time I've tried to improve
01:18:00
something in my life, like my
01:18:01
businesses, my health, my relationships,
01:18:03
I've noticed that the biggest shifts
01:18:05
have come from being better informed.
01:18:07
And when it comes to our health, most of
01:18:08
us know very, very little. So when our
01:18:10
team was approached about partnering
01:18:12
with function health, it felt very much
01:18:14
aligned. Their team has developed a way
01:18:16
of giving you a full 360 degree view of
01:18:18
your health, many of the things that are
01:18:19
going on in your body in the form of
01:18:21
different tests. You do one blood draw
01:18:23
and it gives you access to over 160 lab
01:18:26
results. Hormones, heart health,
01:18:29
inflammation, stress, toxins, the whole
01:18:31
picture. I use it and so have many of my
01:18:33
team members.
01:18:33
>> You sign up and you schedule your test
01:18:35
and once you're done, you get a little
01:18:36
report like the one I have here. I can
01:18:38
see my inrange results, my out of range
01:18:40
results, and there's a little AI
01:18:42
function, too. So, if I have any
01:18:43
questions about my out of range results,
01:18:45
I can just go in there and ask it any
01:18:47
question I want. And these tests are
01:18:49
backed by doctors and thousands of hours
01:18:50
of research. It's $365 for a yearly
01:18:53
membership. Go to
01:18:54
functionhealth.com/doac
01:18:57
and use the code DOAC25
01:18:59
for $25 off your membership. I've done
01:19:03
almost 700 interviews with some of the
01:19:05
most interesting people in the world.
01:19:06
And one of the things you learn which is
01:19:08
unexpected is that vulnerability is the
01:19:10
doorway to connection. And after sitting
01:19:12
here for 2 three hours with a guest, I
01:19:14
feel a deep sense of connection to them.
01:19:17
And as they leave, what I get them to do
01:19:19
is to write a question in the diary of a
01:19:22
CEO. We've taken all of the questions
01:19:24
from the diary of a CEO. We have put the
01:19:27
question here on this card with the name
01:19:30
of the person that wrote it. So, you can
01:19:32
sit at home as I do with my fiance and
01:19:34
my colleagues at work and other people
01:19:36
in my life. Whenever we get a minute, we
01:19:38
play the diio conversation cards and it
01:19:41
is incredible what happens. These are
01:19:44
great if you're in a romantic
01:19:45
relationship and you want to connect
01:19:46
your partner more. These are also great
01:19:47
if you're in a team and you want to bond
01:19:49
your team together. And I have to say
01:19:51
they're also great for families that
01:19:52
want to learn more about each other and
01:19:54
that need a good excuse to spend some
01:19:56
time in a digital world in the analog
01:19:59
environment connecting human to human.
01:20:01
It is remarkable what the right question
01:20:04
at the right time can do. Go to the
01:20:06
diary.com
01:20:08
and you can get these conversation cards
01:20:10
right now. Is there anything you
01:20:12
discovered through your work in physics
01:20:14
that changed your daytoday behavior and
01:20:17
life? How you treat people, how you show
01:20:19
up, what you think matters?
01:20:22
>> No, but the one thing that did change my
01:20:25
attitude toward life, other people was
01:20:28
being in the army. Yeah, that was a game
01:20:30
changer that changed everything I knew
01:20:32
or which I thought I knew. Before then,
01:20:35
I was single-mindedly focused on
01:20:37
physics. Just physics. do physics. Well,
01:20:41
that was my life. But after seeing
01:20:44
warfare up close, I began to realize
01:20:46
there's more to life than warfare. I
01:20:50
think I asked this in part because last
01:20:51
time I spoke to a physicist and he
01:20:52
talked to me about how the nature of
01:20:54
reality is not what I think it is and
01:20:57
that there's multiple, I guess,
01:20:58
dimensions and that I'm only seeing a
01:21:01
fraction of what is real. Um, which I
01:21:04
think all physicists agree upon. It
01:21:05
sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory or
01:21:07
something, but actually logically it
01:21:08
makes a lot of sense to only see what
01:21:10
you need to see to survive. And
01:21:12
actually,
01:21:12
>> when you see your conception of the
01:21:14
threedimensional world is only the
01:21:16
tiniest sliver of actually exists.
01:21:19
>> And when I heard that, it made me
01:21:22
openminded to
01:21:25
a lot of the things I thought were
01:21:27
conspiracy nonsense. It made me
01:21:29
open-minded to ghosts. Maybe ghosts are
01:21:32
real.
01:21:32
>> Well, I wouldn't go that far. Well, you
01:21:34
know, maybe another dimension where
01:21:36
there's another there's spirits that can
01:21:38
see me, but I can't see them.
01:21:40
>> Well, there could be other such
01:21:42
dimensions. That's within the realm of
01:21:44
possibility.
01:21:44
>> What do you think happens when we die?
01:21:46
Do you think do you think that's it? Or
01:21:48
do you think there are there's a
01:21:49
possibility that there's ghosts and that
01:21:52
our spirit, our soul goes somewhere?
01:21:54
>> I don't see it happening because your
01:21:57
brain, your personality, your thoughts
01:21:59
are electrical. And when you die, the
01:22:02
electricity turns off. There's nothing
01:22:05
propelling thinking anymore. Thinking
01:22:07
requires a lot of energy. Even ghosts,
01:22:10
if ghosts exist, they would still
01:22:11
require a lot of energy to keep the
01:22:13
thoughts going. But that's why I don't
01:22:15
believe in ghosts because I don't see an
01:22:17
energy source that propels the ghosts.
01:22:20
People talk a lot about spirituality.
01:22:22
They talk about, you know, things like
01:22:24
chakras and a lot of spiritual people
01:22:26
talk about vibrations. It's a phrase
01:22:28
that I often hear in the spiritual
01:22:30
communities. Do you believe in anything
01:22:32
like that in terms of humans having
01:22:35
energies and being able to feel each
01:22:37
other's energies?
01:22:39
>> Well, I think that if a person emanates
01:22:41
a certain aura or a vibe, that doesn't
01:22:45
necessarily mean they're radiating
01:22:46
something.
01:22:47
>> But is there any physics behind that
01:22:48
idea?
01:22:49
>> I think it's psychological that you are
01:22:52
tuned tuned into a certain personality,
01:22:55
a certain way of movement. I think it's
01:22:58
psychological rather than physical.
01:23:01
>> What is what is something you believe
01:23:02
that you haven't proven?
01:23:04
>> Well, there's a lot of things that
01:23:05
haven't been proven. All I can say is
01:23:07
maybe, maybe not. Like flying saucers. I
01:23:10
don't say they don't exist or they
01:23:11
exist. I say maybe. I just haven't seen
01:23:14
concrete evidence for them. That's all.
01:23:16
So, there's a lot of things that I'm not
01:23:18
going to definitely say no. Like ghosts.
01:23:21
I don't think they are ghosts, but I
01:23:22
can't prove it.
01:23:24
Maybe there is some afterlife of some
01:23:26
sort, but it does go against what is
01:23:28
measurable. We've seen no measurement of
01:23:32
somebody that has been able to pick up
01:23:33
vibrations from a ghost.
01:23:36
>> How would you like to be remembered
01:23:39
someday long after you're gone? Do you
01:23:41
care about being remembered? Do you care
01:23:43
about legacy?
01:23:44
>> Well, I care about leading a good life
01:23:46
that I feel comfortable with.
01:23:48
>> Mhm. And if you if your books and your
01:23:52
teachings and your lectures, if they
01:23:55
live on beyond you, that's a bonus. It
01:23:58
means that you had an impact. It means
01:24:00
you touched people. You touched people's
01:24:02
lives with ideas. And when I go down the
01:24:05
street, quite a few people come up to me
01:24:07
and they say, "I saw you on this show. I
01:24:09
saw you on that show." And that gives me
01:24:12
a nice feeling. Of course, after I'm
01:24:14
gone, there's no no nothing to feel. But
01:24:17
while you're still alive, it gives you a
01:24:18
nice feeling know that you've had an
01:24:20
impact, knowing that you've changed
01:24:22
somebody's life. Several people have
01:24:24
come up to me and said, "I became a
01:24:26
physicist because of you." So that's uh
01:24:29
a nice nice way to view reality that you
01:24:33
touch people.
01:24:36
Is there is there anything that you used
01:24:37
to think was a conspiracy theory that
01:24:40
you now know to be true?
01:24:42
>> Well, I like to debunk. So as soon as
01:24:44
someone says something outlandish, I say
01:24:46
to myself, sure, sure.
01:24:48
>> But that's what I mean, like you've, you
01:24:50
know, you're a debunker. So at some some
01:24:52
stage in your life, you must have had
01:24:54
the experience of thinking something
01:24:56
can't be true and being proven wrong.
01:24:58
>> Usually when I make predictions, they
01:25:01
come out to be true. Maybe the timeline
01:25:03
is a little bit exaggerated, but they
01:25:06
turn out to be true. So I haven't made
01:25:07
any predictions or observations that
01:25:10
were later shown to be false. What
01:25:12
predictions are you making now then
01:25:13
about the the nature of reality in the
01:25:15
future?
01:25:16
>> Well, I talk about the nature of string
01:25:18
theory in the future, whether or not we
01:25:19
really will have a theory of everything.
01:25:22
Flying saucers, I talk about the fact
01:25:24
that even though we have no evidence
01:25:26
today, you know, there's a mountain of
01:25:28
these things being declassified. Now,
01:25:30
maybe we'll pick up shreds of evidence.
01:25:32
>> Did you look at the declassified
01:25:34
information that Trump released on UFOs?
01:25:35
>> Yeah, I've looked at the whole the whole
01:25:37
batch 160 or so sightings. Was there
01:25:40
anything in there that was compelling to
01:25:42
you?
01:25:42
>> No, just lights dancing in the sky
01:25:44
without any commentary. So, you don't
01:25:46
know what they are.
01:25:48
>> But they could be extraterrestrial,
01:25:50
but you see, these things are
01:25:51
two-dimensional. They're taken by a
01:25:54
camera, which is flattens the image.
01:25:57
>> Therefore, to judge distance is very
01:25:59
tricky.
01:26:01
Do you believe that you're looking at
01:26:04
extraterrestrial
01:26:06
life forms when you watch these videos
01:26:08
of your
01:26:08
>> I'm open to the idea. I don't think
01:26:10
there's any smoking gun yet. I'm open to
01:26:13
the idea that these are
01:26:14
extraterrestrial.
01:26:14
>> You see some of them going up and then
01:26:16
down and then into the ocean and coming
01:26:17
back up again. Do when you watch that,
01:26:19
do you think these are aliens or do you
01:26:21
just think it's people that have
01:26:22
misunderstood what they're looking at?
01:26:24
>> I leave open the probability that it
01:26:26
could be one or the other. There's no
01:26:28
aha moment where I say that it's nothing
01:26:31
but reflection. It's nothing but an
01:26:33
optical illusion. There's no aha moment.
01:26:36
If you had to bet everything you love
01:26:39
and cherish on either side of the fence
01:26:42
that non-human life had made contact
01:26:45
with the earth at some point in some
01:26:46
form or not, which side would you place
01:26:50
everything you love and care about on?
01:26:52
Yes, aliens have made contact with the
01:26:54
earth in some form or no? Well, I would
01:26:57
have to say I don't know
01:26:58
>> if you but if you had to
01:26:59
>> I know it's a copout. No,
01:27:01
>> but you know as if everything on the was
01:27:03
on the line, one would have to move yet
01:27:06
to yes or no. And I would personally
01:27:09
I would personally probably say
01:27:13
probably no. If you made me bet
01:27:15
everything,
01:27:16
>> I'd say maybe yes.
01:27:17
>> You'd say yes.
01:27:18
>> But no, no, no, no. Maybe yes. Very
01:27:20
important. The word maybe. I'm a I'm a
01:27:22
scientist and somebody's going to use
01:27:23
that against me by saying you said on
01:27:26
television that this and this is true.
01:27:28
No, I said maybe. That doesn't mean it
01:27:31
actually is true. It just means I open
01:27:33
the possibility that it's true. But if
01:27:35
you were held at gunpoint, doctor, and
01:27:37
at gunpoint they said right, you've got
01:27:40
to say yes or no. And if you're right or
01:27:43
wrong, that determines your fate.
01:27:48
>> I would have to say maybe. I know what
01:27:51
you're getting at. You want to like, you
01:27:53
know, corner the fox, right?
01:27:54
>> Yeah. Well, to some degree, yeah, I'm
01:27:56
trying to corner the fox. Um, but I'm
01:27:57
but I'm doing it to understand where
01:28:00
your intuition or your your bias lands
01:28:04
because
01:28:05
>> I see there's not enough conclusive
01:28:07
evidence. There's no aha moment. I just
01:28:09
see a lot of may.
01:28:11
>> A lot of may. H Yeah, I think I I mean,
01:28:15
I think that's probably the
01:28:16
intellectually honest answer is maybe.
01:28:19
Um, but if I was forced to fall on one
01:28:21
side of the fence, I'd I'd probably say
01:28:24
no
01:28:26
because I don't have enough conviction
01:28:28
to say yes. I see no evidence to say yes
01:28:30
other than, you know, some sightings of
01:28:32
some things, but I'm open-minded. Maybe
01:28:36
it'll change. Um, doctor, we have a
01:28:38
closing tradition on this podcast where
01:28:40
the last guest leaves a question for the
01:28:41
next guest, not knowing who they're
01:28:42
leaving it for. And the question left
01:28:43
for you in my diary is,
01:28:48
what is the best strategy to deal with
01:28:52
failure?
01:28:54
I think the best strategy to deal with
01:28:56
failure is try it again.
01:29:00
I think on the first try, you're bound
01:29:02
to make mistakes because it's a learning
01:29:03
curve. And that learning curve is is
01:29:06
instructive. It teaches you. It teaches
01:29:09
you to try it again, but make a slight
01:29:11
change. make a slight change and hope
01:29:14
that change is in the right direction.
01:29:15
If not, make another change and see
01:29:18
whether that puts you in the right
01:29:19
direction.
01:29:20
>> If you could um go back to when you were
01:29:22
that seven-year-old kid that was just
01:29:24
getting into physics and 8
01:29:25
>> year old 8-year-old
01:29:26
>> and give him any advice that would best
01:29:29
serve him for the next 70 years. What
01:29:31
advice would you have given him?
01:29:34
>> I'd say carry on. I've made a lot of
01:29:37
decisions that I feel good about,
01:29:39
decisions that made me a better person.
01:29:42
For example, when I went into the army,
01:29:45
at that point, I thought, what could be
01:29:46
worse than facing death on the
01:29:48
battlefield to die on some unnamed hill
01:29:52
in some unnamed land? And then I began
01:29:54
to realize, well, yeah, that's a
01:29:56
possibility, but there's another
01:29:58
possibility that you may survive, that
01:30:00
you may learn from that experience. If
01:30:03
you're not here to learn, okay, so be
01:30:05
it. But if you are here to learn, you
01:30:08
gain wisdom by being in the military.
01:30:12
And that I think is a positive thing.
01:30:14
>> We we were talking about UFOs and alien
01:30:16
life. Um, at the start of this
01:30:18
conversation, and one of the questions
01:30:19
that's adjacent to it is if alien life
01:30:22
were to come here at some point, do you
01:30:25
think they would have empathy for us or
01:30:27
do you think that's potentially a human
01:30:30
trait? Do you think they, you know,
01:30:30
because in the movies they attack us?
01:30:32
>> Well, if I were to shoot in the dark,
01:30:34
I'd say first of all, they're robotic.
01:30:36
They're not organic at all.
01:30:38
>> Really,
01:30:39
>> because they exhibit maneuvers that
01:30:41
would crush the bones of any any living
01:30:44
creature that we know of. These flying
01:30:47
saucers can zigzag. They can dive from
01:30:49
70,000 ft all the way down. They can
01:30:52
dive underwater. These require skills
01:30:56
and tensions and vibrations that would
01:30:58
crack any known US device in half. And
01:31:03
there they are executing these things.
01:31:05
Either they're fake or they're
01:31:07
extraterrestrial.
01:31:09
So I think that they have a technology
01:31:11
that we can only dream of.
01:31:13
>> So when we're looking at these UAP
01:31:15
images and videos, if they are to be
01:31:17
real, then you're saying there's no life
01:31:19
in them at all and it's actually just
01:31:21
machine intelligence. That's right. In
01:31:24
fact, that's probably one reason why
01:31:25
they don't come out and greet us like in
01:31:27
the movies. In the movies, they always
01:31:29
come out and say, "Hello, Earth man."
01:31:32
No, I personally think they're robotic.
01:31:34
>> This question of empathy, do you posit
01:31:36
that they might be empathetic? Do you do
01:31:38
you posit they would want to destroy us?
01:31:39
I mean, what would
01:31:40
>> Will they destroy us or will they want
01:31:42
to? The answer, I think, is no because
01:31:44
they could have done it years ago. You
01:31:46
realize that if you go back, even the
01:31:48
Bible makes reference to a UFO. If you
01:31:52
take a look at Ezekiel,
01:31:54
Ezekiel saw the wheel in the sky. And
01:31:57
some people say there was no wheel. That
01:31:59
was a UFO.
01:32:01
So, who knows for sure. But if the
01:32:04
aliens really wanted to destroy us, they
01:32:07
could have done it years ago. They don't
01:32:10
have to wait. But if you go to a zoo,
01:32:13
even if the zoo is lifelike to the point
01:32:15
where the animals themselves don't even
01:32:18
know they're in a zoo, it's peaceful
01:32:20
that you can observe them without
01:32:23
necessarily uh revealing your presence.
01:32:26
And in that sense, it could be like
01:32:28
living in a zoo. Not that they want to
01:32:30
gawk at us and laugh at us, but just
01:32:32
observe us.
01:32:34
>> So you think that they will be they
01:32:36
won't want to destroy us, which is
01:32:38
comforting to hear. I think if they had
01:32:40
the chance to destroy us and they wanted
01:32:42
to, they could have done it decades ago,
01:32:45
but here we are.
01:32:47
>> It's an interesting idea when you talked
01:32:50
about um this extraterrestrial life
01:32:52
potentially being robotic. It does my It
01:32:55
kind of makes sense to me because we're
01:32:57
on a course to create humanoid robots
01:32:59
and robots that um can I was actually
01:33:02
watching this morning. There's a video
01:33:03
that one of these humanoid robot
01:33:05
companies is streaming and it's they're
01:33:07
streaming a humanoid robot working on a
01:33:09
production line for 4 hours straight so
01:33:11
everybody can watch and all it's doing
01:33:12
is sorting packages out but it's been
01:33:14
going for 4 days straight and if you
01:33:16
play this forward you go this robot can
01:33:18
go walk across the office and it can
01:33:20
charge itself back up once it runs out
01:33:22
of battery and then they show it going
01:33:24
back to work again when I say play it
01:33:26
forward I mean imagine this technology
01:33:28
continues to improve on the trajectory
01:33:29
it's on the battery technology gets
01:33:31
better the intelligence gets But uh and
01:33:34
then theoretically this robot will be
01:33:36
able to build a spaceship theoretically
01:33:38
and travel into the universe
01:33:41
theoretically at some point if you
01:33:43
imagine any rate of improvement. So it's
01:33:45
the theoretical that okay humans might
01:33:47
not be able to survive the crushing
01:33:49
forces of that speed but a robot could.
01:33:52
>> My personal attitude is that we should
01:33:53
eventually merge with them.
01:33:55
>> Merge with the robots.
01:33:56
>> That's right. That's my personal feeling
01:33:59
because people talk about whether
01:34:00
they're good, whether they're bad. so on
01:34:02
and so forth. Well, the bottom line is
01:34:04
they're going to become more powerful.
01:34:06
And not now, but who knows, maybe in the
01:34:09
next century, they'll begin to make
01:34:11
reasonable choices. They'll reason.
01:34:14
They'll plot future histories. And at
01:34:17
that point, they could be potentially
01:34:18
dangerous.
01:34:20
So, what do we do? Either we become
01:34:23
super powerful and meet the challenge or
01:34:26
we merge with them.
01:34:27
>> When you say merge with them, what do
01:34:30
you mean?
01:34:31
>> Become like that. become part robotic
01:34:33
oursel, become superhuman.
01:34:34
>> As in when we're born as kids, maybe we
01:34:37
have an implant and it makes us turns us
01:34:39
into a robot or
01:34:40
>> Yeah. In other words, we are still
01:34:43
looking the same except we have
01:34:45
superhuman abilities and our brain is
01:34:47
connected either directly or by remote
01:34:49
control to a central nervous system that
01:34:52
does the calculations and performs these
01:34:55
calculations much better than we can and
01:34:59
um we become superhuman. This is the uh
01:35:01
the video that I'm talking about. This
01:35:02
is actually a live video. So, this is
01:35:04
live as we're watching.
01:35:06
>> What they've got is they've got a human
01:35:08
being here who's sorting the packages
01:35:11
and they've got they've got the humanoid
01:35:13
robot here
01:35:15
>> and they're just counting how many
01:35:17
packages each of them can sort.
01:35:19
>> Mhm.
01:35:20
>> And this robot has been doing this for 4
01:35:22
days straight.
01:35:23
>> Yeah.
01:35:24
Anyway, you play this forward and it
01:35:27
asks a big question about the future of
01:35:28
humanity when there's humanoid robots
01:35:31
that
01:35:31
>> Well, I think menial jobs will go out
01:35:34
the window like this. Jobs that are
01:35:36
repetitive, jobs that just require your
01:35:39
arms and legs, those jobs will be
01:35:41
gradually phased out and new jobs will
01:35:45
open up.
01:35:46
New jobs that require thinking, human
01:35:49
relations, organizing, directing other
01:35:52
people. Robots can't do any of that
01:35:54
stuff. Robots simply do what they're
01:35:56
told to do repetitively. Okay? We make
01:36:00
decisions. We know how to interface with
01:36:02
other things. We plot. We plan. Robots
01:36:06
can't do that. Now, that doesn't mean
01:36:08
they can't eventually, but it just means
01:36:10
that the next step beyond this will be
01:36:12
robots that can do a little bit of
01:36:14
mental work. And it means that we have
01:36:16
to retrain the workforce so that they
01:36:19
can become uh masters of the robots.
01:36:22
In other words, we are masters of tools,
01:36:25
hammers, saws, whatever. We're the
01:36:27
master of them. They're not the master
01:36:29
of us. Okay? We tell the hammer and the
01:36:32
and the chisel what to do because we
01:36:35
lord over them.
01:36:36
>> Have you used AI agents before?
01:36:38
>> I've used AI before, but not necessarily
01:36:40
which which agent are you talking about?
01:36:42
>> So, I've got like on my phone, I can
01:36:43
say, I need a new umbrella for my patio
01:36:46
outside my house.
01:36:47
>> Yeah.
01:36:48
>> And it will go on the internet. It will
01:36:49
look at the prices. It will look at
01:36:50
everything. It
01:36:51
>> Yeah. Well, I can just type on the
01:36:52
computer screen a question
01:36:54
>> and the computer will come up with an
01:36:56
answer.
01:36:57
>> But you you were talking about planning
01:36:58
there. So, I was saying that the agent
01:37:00
basically makes a plan and then it
01:37:02
spends a couple of it could spend an
01:37:03
hour executing that plan.
01:37:05
>> Oh, you mean not just coming up with the
01:37:07
plan, but actually executing the plan.
01:37:09
>> It can do both. But I'm just saying you
01:37:10
were talking about how um humans have
01:37:12
this, you know, this ability to make
01:37:15
decisions. I'm saying that the AI agent
01:37:17
is making decisions like a human would.
01:37:19
No, you tell them what to do. The
01:37:21
computer is probably programmed to look
01:37:23
for a reference like an encyclopedia, a
01:37:26
handbook, the internet. In other words,
01:37:28
if you say, "I want to know the best
01:37:30
car," it'll carry that out by looking at
01:37:33
the internet going through different
01:37:35
cars, it doesn't need you to tell it
01:37:38
that. But if you were to ask something
01:37:40
more complicated, go to the supermarket
01:37:42
and buy me some eggs. No robot can do
01:37:45
that.
01:37:45
>> Have you been to LA? Cuz if you're in
01:37:47
LA, there's all these robots strolling
01:37:49
around the streets delivering food. They
01:37:51
deliver food in LA.
01:37:52
>> Oh, yeah. But that's just crawling on a
01:37:54
sidewalk.
01:37:55
>> That's what That's what humans do.
01:37:56
>> I thought you meant driving a car.
01:37:58
Driving a car and going up the stairs
01:38:00
and whatever. That's just going on a
01:38:03
sidewalk,
01:38:03
>> which is what human does.
01:38:06
>> Yeah, but humans can do a lot more.
01:38:08
>> Okay. Thank you so much, doctor. I
01:38:10
appreciate your time today. And I've
01:38:11
learned so much about all of these
01:38:13
fascinating things. And as always when I
01:38:15
listen to your content, I find myself
01:38:16
more curious about the nature of
01:38:17
reality. And I realize how little we
01:38:20
know, which makes me and I guess
01:38:22
thousands of other people that have
01:38:23
followed your work cuz I was going
01:38:24
through your videos earlier on and so
01:38:25
many of the top comments are people
01:38:28
saying that you're the reason they
01:38:30
worked harder in their physics classes.
01:38:32
>> Oh, really?
01:38:33
>> Yeah. I was on a couple of the podcasts
01:38:35
that you've been on and so many of the
01:38:36
top comments say exactly that. They say,
01:38:37
"You're the reason I worked harder.
01:38:39
You're the person that made me more
01:38:40
curious." And I just think that's such a
01:38:41
wonderful thing because as you said at
01:38:42
the start, physics is the basis of
01:38:44
everything.
01:38:44
>> Yeah.
01:38:45
>> And uh the more we understand, the
01:38:48
better the lives we could live,
01:38:49
>> right?
01:38:51
>> Thank you so much.
01:38:53
>> Okay. Well, thank you.
01:38:54
>> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
01:38:56
where they know exactly what video you
01:38:58
would like to watch next based on AI and
01:39:00
all of your viewing behavior. And the
01:39:02
algorithm says that this video is the
01:39:05
perfect video for you. It's different
01:39:07
for everybody looking right now. Check
01:39:09
this video out and I bet you you might
01:39:11
love it.
