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no one has ever asked me the questions that you've asked me today [Music] releasing new music first time in like
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three years this time i'm [ __ ] myself i remember that video of you you found out your net worth oh yeah that's ten [ __ ] million quid sitting
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about somewhere where the [ __ ] is it no label would ever tell you that is the strategy to become successful you can
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philly just put a picture of you wear towel wraps on your head and these stupid glasses and we are top off on a big massive poster on the tube it's less
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about being like a polished [ __ ] pop star whatever people see through that [ __ ]
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you are living an extraordinarily unhuman life what is the reality i have really bad anxiety i've never reached a
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tipping point until after getting famous i [ __ ] hate recording albums despise doing music videos i only do all that stuff because playing live is this [ __ ] unparalleled thing that you
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can't compare to anything else so like when that was making me feel shy if it's like [ __ ] i don't know if i can do any
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of this [ __ ] anymore my dad gave me i left home from the airport one night and i was twitching
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like [ __ ] to the point where he started crying in the car i couldn't concentrate on work i was doing because i was so convinced that i was gonna die
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what is the question that no one asks you that would reveal the most untapped answer
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i think before this conversation starts i've got a favor to ask from you 74 percent of
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people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button and nine percent of people haven't yet hit the bell to turn
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notifications on the bigger this platform gets the bigger the guests get so if you could do me one favor if
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you've ever enjoyed this podcast please hit the subscribe button and turn notifications on without further ado
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i'm stephen butler and this is the dire of a ceo i hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this
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yourself [Music] lewis hello when you look back and i was reading about your childhood i found it really
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fascinating when you look back at those um early early early dots that you i think
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sometimes in hindsight we can connect and go ah that was the reason i became the person i am today well that was a really
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significant early moment what were those first early dots that you connect and go that's why
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i ended up where i am today um i think for me it's probably the first one i can remember is like being i remember just being on holiday
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in france we used to go on these mad like caravan holidays in france me my mom my
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dad and my two older brothers my older sister and uh there was like i don't know for some
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reason i had become obsessed with queen i must have been like four years old um but like we got like a cd and the like
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one of you remember those free cd newspapers like oh yeah well you would pull out stuff so we got that
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and it had like we were rocky by queen on it and i had we are the champions as well and i
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remember like just i became obsessed with and i was like listening all the way through don't they um
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we were going so we drove from scotland to france so it was like i just remember listening to that constantly on repeat
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and then being i don't know if i'd ever showed an interest in singing prior to this or being a singer
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but i remember we were at like one of those like cat like a band was playing it was like a
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karaoke thing like one of the family entertainment nights or whatever and then for some reason i just like asked
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if i could go up and sing and we were rocky by queen um and it was glad and i went up and i did it and there's a picture of me doing it like i'm tiny and i've got this maker foreign
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so i did it and then i think i've got a buzz for whatever and for whatever reason i asked if i could go back up and do another song and i did
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another song and it was like for me that's the first kind of memory of like this like singing and getting a buzz for
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like well i'm up here and i'm doing this thing in front of people it's like again i i have no other memory of like
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singing prior to that but this was like just the first time i'd ever like got up in front of people and sang and been
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like oh this is like a oh he bit of a buzz like even at four i mean which is mad to think now but like um yeah i don't know what sort of possessed me to get up and do it
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but it was so that must have been [ __ ] i don't know like i would have been like 2 000 or something maybe that
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happened um but yeah i still don't i still can't like put a finger on why i did it or what
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what the reason was for getting up on it but um you're four years old four years old yeah yeah it was it was a strange
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one and it was like a like a party or something it was like uh like you call these [ __ ] it's kind of like these
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kind of package holidays that you go on my family they have like kids clubs and they have like entertainment nights so
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it's like everyone kind of congregates in this theater kind of but in the middle and it's like
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then they have a on and they have like i don't know [ __ ] puppet show or something like i don't know i can't
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really remember i haven't i haven't been back since i don't often hang around they didn't put me back but um but yeah so then it was like um yeah it was just that it was that was the first
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time we did it and it was yeah i can't i can't i can't put my finger on why what were you like at that age at that sort of under 10 age in terms of confidence and because to say you know i
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want to go up on stage and sing in a bunch a group of friends strangers seems like quite an abnormal thing for a child to volunteer
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to do toy um i think prior to being like 10 and prior to like i don't know yeah probably go to high school or whatever on that maybe not even like that but like when i was younger i was definitely
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quite like outgoing i'd say like i was quite i remember i watched them when i was like five i watched austin powell's like i was like religiously watching austin powers i don't know why
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my parents allowed me to do that but like i would like go to family parties and be asked to recite like i'm a fat bastard at austin post like the big fat guy that he pleased please
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i'd be asked to like recite parts of his thing and i would do it in front of everybody you know the rest of
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it was but it was never like again it was never singing it was just like acting the goat and like take the piss
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and yeah i would get up and do recite all these fat bastard bits and [ __ ] um so yeah i was definitely like more i was definitely like a
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an outgoing kid i think um i definitely like to be i was probably allowed and i kind of like to be like i guess i i i kind of like people for
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feedback yeah yeah i like feedback i like people watching me do things i like seeing people enjoying something that i
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was doing do you know why um i don't know it's it's a strange one because i i never i
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guess i never put much thought into when i was five or whatever but i don't know if it's like i don't know if maybe like making a like
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my parents laugh or something made me feel like oh that's a buzzer whatever or like
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i don't know yeah i've sat here with quite a lot of comedians you know jimmy carr russell kane russell howard and and
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that's been one of the really fascinating things for me is like trying to find out why at a young age they got a real buzz from
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performing and making people laugh and actually i think it was jimmy carr that said something to me he said instead of you know because there's this
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kind of stereotype that you do that because you're depressed and you're trying to i don't know but jimmy carr
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said to me when when you see that behavior in a comedian don't ask them if they're depressed ask them which one of
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their parents were they trying to cheer up all right well interesting yeah that's as interesting i don't know my
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parents when when i was i went to a therapist a couple years ago who had said my
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my mum's mum died when i was three of like cancer not like cancer that was cancer
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and then a year after her aunt like committed suicide um who was and sorry my mum's sister my aunt committed suicide so my mom lost her mom and her sister in like
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the set like within a year of each other so i don't know if maybe that's like i'm quite like a hypochondriac and i'm
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i'm kind of like i always think i'm out of dying and when i was younger my mom used to talk man i
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used to always be like have you locked the doors like even when i was like four or five or whatever and a therapist told
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me that was kind of like that might be because of like being exposed to the fact that people are gone like people
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disappear people aren't like i was aware of what death was at a young age so i don't know if maybe that's like
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having seen like that sort of like that sort of like profound sadness and my mum when she's like lost her mom and lost her sister i don't remember that's was it profound sadness
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that you saw oh for sure like i mean it's obviously i mean i can't imagine losing
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my mom at this i mean i'm 25 my mum would have been 34 when she lost her mom um so yeah for sure like i still i have like like vivid memories like
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going into my mum's room she was crying a bit i think this might have been my man died but her crying in bed
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and talking about like and then being like having to tell me all like you know i passed away or whatever or
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like i just didn't i wasn't feeling aware of what was going on but i just saw her so like heartbroken and so
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yeah so distraught that this happened so i don't know maybe that's that's an interesting thought of like i don't know if maybe that's fed into it and like
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me doing anything i could to like either cheer them up or distract them whatever i don't know but um but yeah it's an interest in him
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how old were you when that happened i was three with my granddad and three and three
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quarters when my aunt er come out suicide so i was i was young for sure it's it's really i don't think people realize how much kids can feel the pain of their parents right
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i had an incident with my um sister-in-law and her her and my niece where my probably the instance that taught me this lesson when my sister-in-law was
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crying um was upset about something and i just looked down at my knees and my niece is glued up and my niece explodes
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in tears as well yeah that kind of relationship we have like of intuitively knowing if our parents are feeling something
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of course i think that yeah i think as the people kids do i mean it's a thing now where people are kind of talking about more kids to see a lot more i
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actually watched that in joel wick's documentary a few weeks ago when he was talking about his parents addictions and
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things and he says like yeah kids see so much more and are aware of so much more than we actually know i i totally
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agree because even now if i'm at a funeral it could be for someone i have never met in my life but my mum knew them if i turned around
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and my mum's crying right yeah like it's a mess so it's like something that's like obviously learnt like you see your mum crying it's
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listen it's one of the worst things you can possibly see your mom or your dad or any of your brother's sister's unpaid or crying or like um really going
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through something and i think yeah it's something that just does even though it sticks with you and fears i read the
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study about these monkeys these recess monkeys and it showed that if the mother recess monkey had a phobia of spiders
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then all of the babies would be scared whenever they saw a spider and that kind of show you you're talking about
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hypochondria there you're talking about like um using your parents as a steer as to what is dangerous what is sad you
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know all those things do you think that you're you you said you had like a hypochondriac yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
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yeah do you think that came from your mother's caution i think it's not necessarily my mom's
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she's not like uh she is like the least like if i phone and i say mom i've got a
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headache i'm dizzy i think i've got like a tumor or something she'll be like shut the [ __ ] up you're fine like listen take some paracetamol go to sleep you'll
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be grand i'll see you later my dad is a very i the older i get the more i understand
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that my dad i get all my anxieties and things from my dad my dad's like a worrier for sure and he he's a catastrophizer as well like his mind goes to like
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yeah the other day he went um to chat he went to my brother's house chat from the door my brother never answered my
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brother was in the shower and uh my dad had convinced himself there was a gas leak in the house and my
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brother like an immediate jump like no no like like stepping ladder to that it was chat the door no answer chat with her again right gas leak if something's
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wrong banging the door my brother comes out and i tell and he's like what the [ __ ] are you doing this is like mental
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and my dad's but that's like i mean it comes from like an amazing place but it's something that he just
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has in his mind and i think he he's a hypochondriac as well he kind of has yeah i i think i've learned that from him in the sense that he's he's a he's a warrior in that sense but i do think
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that because i never thought about the my aunt and grandmother passing away is like a a big thing in my childhood i just which is which now when i say that out loud
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it sounds mental because when i'm like oh it wasn't a big thing however but like so i think it's probably that like that
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sort of like awareness of death and awareness that you're not around forever and your
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parents like because then immediately i'm like oh my mom's passing away like my mum will probably like i mean that's
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immediately in your head as a kid so um i i can't remember why i got into asking
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with her about like locking the door when i was a kid and she was have you looked i
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don't understand and i still don't remember how that became a thing but um but yeah no so i think
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i definitely get a lot of my hypochondria and my worry and my anxiety from my father and my my mother's quite quite calm cool
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and collected if i'm the older i get the more i'm realizing that's what i mean but yeah i sat here with um a guy called jack jack mate he's called and he talked
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about health anxiety in ocd and he really opened up about it and i you know people use these terms flippantly they
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said i've got ocd i've got i'm sorry i'm hyper conjunct and they use them so flippantly to describe like the tiniest
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little something's not neat i've got ocd or uh you know you you might find a lump and go you know jokingly say it's this and yeah then someone will flip and they sell you're a hypochondriac but the reality
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of being a hyper contract or ocd is as jack taught me it's very very different mm-hmm talk about saying what is the reality so i think so that i i've got i have really bad anxiety
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like anyway but which i never really had never reached a tipping point until after
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like getting famous i never had a panic attack until after i was famous or after i was a musician or after this was like
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after they got to like a height um but the hypochondria i get i guess like looking back now i'm like oh i was
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like such an anxious kid but then because now i understand that a lot more and i've got a therapy and i speak about
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it with people and i'm trying to learn a bit more about it i kind of look back at things at that time and realized that that that the behavior
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was was the result of anxiety but that hypochondria thing was probably where it was started and it was like
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i would be like i'd be walking around school like moping and [ __ ] like black sort of like blink of a blanket for you and everything and i was just like couldn't concentrate on work i was doing because i was so convinced that i
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was gonna die and that i had this [ __ ] horrible disease and that um that yeah that that i was good that i
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was going to be over and i was going to have to go to hospital i was going to pass out or have a seizure i've never done none of that has
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ever happened to me i've nev i've touched wood never been in hospital for anything serious i've never broken a
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bone i've never had any major i've never had a surgery i've never had any major illnesses or
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anything like that um at school when i was in primary school i never missed a day off i never had a day
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off i was always never had i was never ill um secondary school i was off once like so
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it wasn't like it wasn't like um i had calls for any of this it was just like in my head just thinking and i think maybe that's a thing as well of like i don't know if that maybe never actually
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being ill i didn't know what being really hell felt like so my mind would maybe maybe
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conjure something up in that respect but um but yeah no at the school it just became sometimes it could become like
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just really like again at the time i didn't understand it i and and the symptoms of anxiety like
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being dizzy and [ __ ] i used to kind of always go like i just think big deep breaths
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um all the time and and i used to make this noise which i still make when i go like
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um and it's like i found so basically and now looking back i realize that's all anxiety and
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actually got diagnosed with tourette's like two months ago or something like that really yeah yeah which was which was to
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me made when they said i was like oh that kind of makes [ __ ] sense because i always thought tourette's like [ __ ]
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on that i didn't realize it could just be like text bodily thingies but um so i kind of yeah as i say like looking back and i
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realized it was all anxiety but if i thought i had a brain tumor and i was like um and i was like worrying about it so much and getting access that i was dizzy that would then feed back into the
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oh i've got a branch in because i'm busy all the time why else would that be does it i mean i even got so bad a couple of years ago
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um that i paid i went and paid for an mri scan cancelled i've met play austin set a limits festival um in austin and i
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just had to cancel the trip because that my anxiety about i think there's someone serious around me i got so bad that i
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was i can't get on a plane and go to austin and be away from home i need to go get an mri scan or i need to [ __ ]
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really see what it's going about so i went and got it and obviously there was nothing in my head that was fine and no one can talk you
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out of those when you're in that moment call your mom you call your friends you tell people no one can talk you out of it i can do it now because i've like
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done therapies and i've kind of been able to sort of understand my own anxiety and stuff a bit more like that has made it easier for me to kind
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of talk myself out of these kind of situation at least kind of holes that i can dig myself in my head
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my mum's also very good at my dad's absolutely useless because because he's [ __ ] like he's anxious
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himself he's just like [ __ ] all right he's he's mental but um so my mom yeah she's she's really good at like if i'm having if i'm having a panic attack my mom has to like there's nobody else
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that can like taught me a little bit for sure definitely like that by the way my mom has had to
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sleep in my bed as as recently as like a month ago because of how bad my anxiety got at one point but i think that was that was alcohol related that
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had been on a bit of a bend a couple days before but like it gets to a point where i'm like i can't
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i just can't [ __ ] i can't envision like i can't like i can't imagine at not being something like life-threatening or like super serious because of how [ __ ]
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like sometimes like things don't feel real someone who'll say something to me and i won't understand what they're saying like it's [ __ ] it gets like proper
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proper intent um but yeah that's kind of the hypochondria as i've got older is as lesson it's only
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when i start to have a panic attack or like i start to get really anxious that i'll go right that's i think so i'm
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dizzy that's probably anxiety you're fine i know there's a voice in the back of my head that goes but what if it isn't
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worth something wrong with me what if you're about to pass out and then in some situations i just i get
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my head tells me like oh you're about to have a panic attack you're going to have like and then that is enough like that's
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enough hypochondria like yeah it's mad um so as it's still something like ongoing
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like that that i deal with but um it's definitely getting better i've i've started taking like my medication for it i've seen a therapist more regularly
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um again the tourettes thing was like a good sort of a look like and it was kind of nice to
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hear because i started doing this but i twist my shoulder it's actually okay today but um that became
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so like bad that i was like this has to be [ __ ] something serious like more neuron disease juggling all that [ __ ] and like
00:21:05
again just the wheels starting turning and all rested so that finding out the tourist thing was
00:21:10
fact was like a nice sort of like oh that's okay that's cool because i don't mind like i don't i never really think
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that like i have like a mental illness of any sort i just think sometimes i get really anxious and it's fine you know
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what i mean it's like it's just one of those things but i don't see it as like this big thing i'm quite like
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i'll talk to anybody about it if i'm having a panic attack room i'll be like i'm having a panic attack by the way so
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just do with that information what you will and you said that on stage before yeah i've done it on stage i had the panic
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attacks on stage we actually we played and we did an arena tour in march 2020 like right up and like just before covert kicked off and i don't know it was like
00:21:54
obviously it was like basically it was kind of the combination of this album campaign that we had done for the last
00:22:00
record and things were great and it was like we played australia and done some amazing shows in australia in january
00:22:07
europe in february and then march was come back like kind of nice sort of [ __ ] victory lap look what we've done this is great arenas can't believe we're doing this in first album amazing it was the worst two
00:22:19
weeks of my life that was [ __ ] [ __ ] i hated every minute of it like if you look at videos of me on stage i'm doing
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this twitch that was so bad that it was just like i was i couldn't speak between
00:22:32
songs i couldn't i could i had to stop songs and start over again i saw lots of tweets
00:22:39
one being like particular that was like all loose is on with fully on cocaine like [ __ ] there's like twitching [ __ ] and all
00:22:45
that [ __ ] and then obviously i'm like oh no people think i'm cookie and that feel feeds out of my thing i do i mean i don't and it was
00:22:52
[ __ ] it was but i was [ __ ] horrible and i think i played the first two shows were in glasgow they were like
00:22:57
the first two arena kicks from glasgow i remember walking out and this is like a kind of big colosseum
00:23:02
thing in the hydro in glasgow and it's like i'm walking out into the middle of the
00:23:07
arena empty arena with mum and dad my sister and looking around the me like oh [ __ ] this is like
00:23:13
it was just i think things had got to a point where they were bigger than like i was seeing how big it had gone like during the first time because
00:23:25
the way it worked was my songs had gotten we were kind of always playing catch up
00:23:31
with ourselves in terms of the size of venues we were doing so like when we could have done 2 000 cap rooms
00:23:37
we were doing a thousand cat rooms and then like so on and so forth so it became like
00:23:43
it was kind of nice because i was like oh this is great like songs flying like that next song's done really well as well like we're playing these knife rooms that the crowds are meant oh this is
00:23:55
class and i think yeah the the arena was like the arena shows were like oh [ __ ]
00:24:00
this is real this is huge there's a difference between 2 000 because that's another
00:24:05
thing i've got about an issue with especially in the uk it's really hard to go from 2 000 capacity rooms to 16 000
00:24:12
capacity rooms it's like there's very rarely in between when i probably can do like 10 you can do it like five and
00:24:18
places but it was just like [ __ ] this is like a big jump and in that thing of like disappointing
00:24:24
people really came in here and then just like i don't mind support become being a
00:24:29
support act i always love because if i'm shy no one gives a [ __ ] because it's like who cares who's that who is this guy
00:24:35
later i mean we did supported sam smith on tour and like they were really gracious and
00:24:40
have this on and uh but everyone's there to see sam no one's there to see me like i mean so if i go out and have a
00:24:47
shake gig it's like grant i'm [ __ ] off this is great i mean so uh but when it's like people have bought a
00:24:53
ticket to see you it's not a festival where there's loads of other people on yeah literally you it just became quite it was quite intense how old were you
00:24:59
then when you walked out with your family into that gig and you looked up at the stadium 23 23 23 years old um
00:25:06
it was my yeah it was intense i think it's because as well like i just maybe i think in my head i was
00:25:14
like oh you you can't as i've got i've got really bad like and everybody i speak to who's done well this like
00:25:20
imposter syndrome thing where it's like i don't deserve to be doing this what the [ __ ] it like why am i
00:25:27
[ __ ] up here doing this i feel like a [ __ ] absolute like i don't know just like a [ __ ] that i
00:25:33
shouldn't i shouldn't be in this position and i've always had it and it's like we do the self-deprecating pattern
00:25:38
like on [ __ ] interviews and stuff which i do love is like take the past but like
00:25:44
the the important stuff i had never been more insecure and unsure of myself than after
00:25:50
i did really well that's so interesting yeah because i've heard that before yeah yeah like like even now like
00:25:57
going back to writing new music after we've done these [ __ ] shows it's like i thought i was gonna go in and be like
00:26:03
right i've had a couple of hits relax guys here we go this is gonna be lovely easy-peasy i was [ __ ] second-guessing myself all the time i was like
00:26:14
i would start writing a song and then immediately no that's [ __ ] like just constantly like
00:26:20
self-sort of like like just [ __ ] just ah that's [ __ ] that [ __ ] that [ __ ] like
00:26:26
looking at what we did before obviously covered happened you have all this time to kind of like
00:26:33
look back on everything you go oh for [ __ ] sake that was kind of got a away from us about there
00:26:38
the song one of the songs went number one in america and i was like there's no way i can do that again does that just seems like such a
00:26:46
such a [ __ ] um such a [ __ ] claim and something that i'm just not capable of i don't it feels like someone else did it so i mean and now i'm like oh no i'm comparing
00:26:59
yourself to that person yeah i'm like lumped it's like we were saying before like that thing of like even now coming
00:27:04
out to do the interviews and stuff it's like [ __ ] i don't know if i can do any of this [ __ ] anymore because it's been it's been [ __ ] easy it's been like
00:27:10
three years do you know who's sat here before you was was bear grylls and bear grylls said to me he said the more successful i've
00:27:17
i've become the lower my confidence has become because bear grylls now is he's when you like if your mate eats something crazy or doesn't mean crazy you go who do you think you're a bear girl he's actually become synonymous
00:27:27
with the word like so his identity is this like extreme you know whatever and he's now looking
00:27:33
up at his own identity going how the hell am i ever going to be bear grylls and it was crazy to hear him say like his confidence is at like pretty much an all-time low because of his success yeah
00:27:45
because he's competing with his own accomplishments which is not an easy place to be yeah and i have
00:27:50
to agree with that i feel like as well it's such a weird position to be in because you walk into a room
00:27:57
like and as people like this sounds wanky as [ __ ] but like i have to i have i have to assume in some regard that people around my age
00:28:07
have at least heard about me in passing and i always just assume when i go into room i just assume people
00:28:13
in that room don't like me like that's just my thank you that's my like default position of like i don't
00:28:19
know why i don't know why it is but i just like it's just something i always have and i always like
00:28:24
if i go to a pub and like i'll walk in a pub like i'm like oh [ __ ] people probably like
00:28:31
walking up to the bar or like if someone comes up and says hello and i'm speaking to them and i think it puts you with them
00:28:36
i think oh everyone else in this book i'm a wanker i don't know it's like i don't know if it's like
00:28:41
when did that start um maybe like end towards the end of 2019 probably yeah um i don't get wrong i [ __ ] being famous is fun it's great like you
00:28:52
know what i mean why do you think they're not gonna like you uh i don't know it's just like i don't know what i i just assume that they've probably seen
00:28:58
something online like a video i've done or an interview i've done or they've heard the songs and they think oh it's
00:29:04
music's [ __ ] oh they've seen interview and they think i [ __ ] hate that card can't stand them um yeah i don't know i
00:29:09
just always assume that people have got this um i don't know this view of me that they maybe don't like i don't know again i couldn't really put my finger on why like i don't i don't i don't hate
00:29:23
myself like i think i'm all right thank job i mean but i think um it's just that i don't know i i don't
00:29:29
know if maybe that thing of like being like in pub in the public eye like you're so [ __ ] exposed
00:29:35
to like all this [ __ ] and it's like yeah it's just a bit it's a bit of a i don't know it's a bit of a it's a bit of a you walk into a room and you feel like oh [ __ ] this is do you feel like it cuz
00:29:48
because i'm on because i've started doing dragon's den now so the podcast was like you know big people know before but there's this whole new demographic
00:29:55
yeah now this bbc one demographic where if i'm in the airport i'm if someone just glances at me i assume oh they're
00:30:00
you're going to come over and say something away so you kind of live with this constant paranoia yeah you're kind
00:30:06
of like oh yeah anyway i just keep my headphones on and i don't i look at the [ __ ] floor
00:30:11
i'm like do you two hold up and it's like that like that sort of like you feel like
00:30:17
squeeze that and i don't know i love when people come up and i i love taking pictures people i love
00:30:22
speaking to people and hearing people's stories about how they love the music or like even i get a lot of people go um oh
00:30:27
i think your music shape but i hate the funny you know that stuff and i'll accept that as well that's fine cool um
00:30:32
but is it cool yeah i think it's fine you can't my music's not going to be for everybody
00:30:38
i'm really aware of that my personality is definitely not going to be from doing fully with that i think
00:30:43
the fact that people come up i like the fact that people feel that they can say that to me and i won't take offense you've kind of
00:30:50
invited that there haven't you yeah yeah because and i'll because that's how i am like i'm you you would really really have to say something
00:30:57
horrible about i don't know what you could say to me that i would take offense i'm very like i don't know if it's mark bringing in scotland or just being scottish or
00:31:03
whatever like that like i don't take offense to things really like i've seen some [ __ ] pretty ridiculous things written about me online and on twitter all the rest of it
00:31:16
that really does not like you say you're very self-deprecating yeah of course why
00:31:23
uh i just think it's funny i think i think but again i think that's a very scottish thing and that's a very
00:31:30
like we kind of all well when i grew up everyone just took the piss at each other it's quite i
00:31:36
don't know it's quite a bad thing and not a bad thing it's gone you never feel you never want to get
00:31:42
ideas above your station like you never even when i was starting out music i just always i never thought we'd get to
00:31:48
this point or the things we get that's big because i just always thought oh that would just that just doesn't
00:31:53
think it might be a bad thing as well because it maybe stops a lot of people from going to achieve things or trying
00:31:59
to reach for stuff like i on i've said before like if i hadn't met my manager on my label and stuff i would
00:32:04
still be in pubs just playing tunes at the weekend and all that it's not like or i'd be playing weddings and stuff
00:32:09
like because i would just not assume that this was on the cards um but i think yes i i think there's
00:32:15
something nice and don't get me wrong around my friends i'm slagging them off like nothing else and
00:32:20
they're doing the same to me and it's like you kind of figure out like what your flaws are
00:32:25
by the way your friends the stuff your friends pick out and i don't know like on tour we say
00:32:31
some [ __ ] horrific stuff to each other to pursue each other and that's all fine because we love each other it's grand but like i think in
00:32:38
general if if i can it feels better to make people laugh like at me than other people like i would rather make someone laugh at me than
00:32:50
grab something else and take the piss out of them before is there a harm because i i've heard some of the things you said you know you said i mean i know they're jokes but you said things like
00:33:03
people women find me equally repulsive in australia and whenever there's you take a shot at yourself and i i do want
00:33:09
it because if my one of my good friends was always self-deprecating i would tell them to stop yeah
00:33:14
because i would be worried that that those words might knock their own confidence or something it's like you
00:33:19
don't talk like be nice to yourself like that's the thing i'd like i think you're talking like
00:33:26
if you had like a child would you want someone to say the things to your child that you say about yourself i get that
00:33:32
completely and i understand that but i don't like self-deprecate constantly in my private life sure i
00:33:38
mean i don't like yeah um it's something that has become kind of synonymous with me
00:33:44
doing interviews and all the rest of it and i do do it a lot in my private life but not like
00:33:50
it's not like a constant every sentence on interviews and things like that do you think it's kind of self-defense in a way from it could be yeah i think as well yeah look my first album's called divinely uninspired to a hellish extent
00:34:02
which is like kind of getting seeing my album [ __ ] before i can see my album [ __ ] um i think it's like it's nice to take the power away from people because it's like
00:34:14
well i [ __ ] say that first i mean like it's like i think it's quite a as good as good takes the power away
00:34:22
from other people i think in in that regard so i i do think there's probably something in that but um the way i get
00:34:28
the way i see it i don't really feel like it's dragging me like for example the stuff i
00:34:34
see myself in my head when i'm hungover that is like damaging stuff like that sort of thing like when you're hungover
00:34:41
and you're like kind of just that self-loathing and that sort of like that's the stuff that if i
00:34:47
said to myself all the time i'd be like whoa you need to [ __ ] like chill out i was like jovial and it's never stuff
00:34:53
that like i can't change you know i mean it's not like things like that i'm like if i'm calling myself chubby that's not like my i can't i can do something about that like do i mean
00:35:05
i'm choosing like not you know what i mean so it's something like um like there is an aspect as well like you kind
00:35:11
of people you get to a point and doing interviews like especially radio stations that we do just say the same thing over and over again so as it's the same in that regard of like
00:35:22
people say a lot like you're very self-deprecating it's like well yes but these are i'm going to ask the
00:35:27
same questions everywhere i go so i'm just kind of like rewarding a lot of this self-deprecating pattern and then the
00:35:33
rest of it so yeah i mean i don't think second time around it's going to be quite like i don't know how it's going to play that's what i'm saying about like turning it on again and all the rest of it like
00:35:45
it's just that's it's gonna be interesting to see like how things play out this time around because it's like
00:35:50
yeah i'm not just gonna come out and say the same stuff how did you how do you feel about the second time around
00:35:56
give me the full range of emotions so this is your second kind of yeah releasing new music first time in like
00:36:01
three years first time was just a smash mega ultra hit yeah some mate call it that yeah um and um [ __ ] crazy yeah it's wild it's wild
00:36:12
so this time i'm [ __ ] myself but this is the problem i think the nature of the music industry it's a big problem
00:36:18
with i mean it's got so much better and i've had a lot of support from everyone around me no one forces me to
00:36:23
do anything no one really we were able this is like almost unheard of but like we were able
00:36:30
to go away and make new music and bring it to the label and be like this is the new music that we're going to put out
00:36:36
and they said great thank you we will now do our job with this so it's like a lot of people
00:36:41
have like maybe an nr who's quite oh no he's changed this changes and that we were given like the first album i
00:36:48
think um free reign to kind of go do what to do people have always checked up on us
00:36:53
but i think in the music industry and then maybe any industry it's like you get a number one single and
00:37:00
immediately it turns to uh yeah but can i do it again yeah and then you do it again and then i mean
00:37:05
like ah but how's the album doing and it's like how are the tickets there's always something else the goal posts
00:37:11
always [ __ ] changing so it's this constant sort of like state of [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] i need to like
00:37:17
right you can't it's like that thing i mean it's so i've spoken about to death but like that
00:37:23
thing i've not been able to sit back and enjoy it because you're always on the move to the next thing and on the move the next thing i think that's why
00:37:30
uh during lockdown i really struggled as well because it was like oh the next thing that the next thing and then there is no next thing now because we're all
00:37:37
covered and all that [ __ ] and it's like what do you do now and then you just i'll have all this pen up [ __ ] how
00:37:42
was that exactly it was um it was intense for sure because you know what when we first got
00:37:48
announced well when kobe first got announced as if it's a [ __ ] album about him coming this summer um but i think um
00:37:55
when cody first got like kind of when the lockdowns first were announced we were all [ __ ]
00:38:00
i think that was about like i was might go on tour to an america to support now horn but having had just had the [ __ ]
00:38:06
horrible experience i had over two weeks i was in a position to realize i don't know if i can perform live anymore without having a panic attack it was
00:38:12
that bad that every single night had a panic attack i was twitching it was [ __ ] horrible people who i knew
00:38:18
would be watching the gigs and they would come back after and be like that wasn't we didn't enjoy watching that gig like that was really [ __ ]
00:38:24
hard for us to see you in that position did you ever in those moments question what you were doing yeah for
00:38:30
sure but i i questioned what i was doing a lot in lockdown as well like it was that it kind of started it's like [ __ ]
00:38:36
if this is making me feel this bad and that it was [ __ ] so heartbreaking as well because sorry i keep having this
00:38:42
mic but i was so heartbroken about it because playing live was the is the the best bit about music like i [ __ ]
00:38:50
hate recording albums it's stressful it's a pain in the ass promo i kind of i get into a point where
00:38:56
i quite like it and it's kind of like fun but it's not like why i'll get into it i [ __ ] despise doing music videos
00:39:02
i hate doing photo shoots hey get my photo taken i only do all that stuff the only reason i started writing songs was
00:39:08
because i thought okay i thought like people who i was watching like bands like green day are [ __ ] other monkeys
00:39:14
oh they write their own songs so i if i want to play live i have to write my own songs um
00:39:19
the the so like the only reason i'd do any of this little [ __ ] i'll put up with this little [ __ ] is because the
00:39:25
playing live was just [ __ ] unparalleled thing that's there's that you can't compare it to anything
00:39:31
else takes you back to being for that karaoke right totally a hundred percent and it's that same buzz every single
00:39:37
[ __ ] time like i mean i mean unless you have a [ __ ] shotgun it's terrible but um and then you're depressed for like three weeks but um
00:39:43
yeah that buzz is just unbelievable so like when when that was making me feel shy i was about like well
00:39:50
this is [ __ ] horrific and i was like i don't know how if this has made me feel this bad
00:39:56
why continue to do it and then at times making new music and stuff i was like when i would get really down to myself i'd be like [ __ ] is this actually worth it all the rest of it i never actually
00:40:07
got to a point where i was like oh i'm going to quit i'll like think i don't think it was ever something that was serious in my mind because i've
00:40:12
literally never done anything else and i would be [ __ ] useless anything else i'm a lazy [ __ ]
00:40:18
like serious and i don't know that sounds like i mean self-deprecating i i am i'm just aware of that as a genuine
00:40:24
flaw that i am i'm trying to take the steps to correct honestly it's so [ __ ] i'm so bad for
00:40:32
just like see like just sitting on tick tock and [ __ ] scrolling through that and this and i think as well getting to
00:40:38
the position i got and my first album i was like [ __ ] now i can like really [ __ ] be lazy like now i
00:40:44
can turn this [ __ ] [ __ ] right up it was wild so like at point's house it's like [ __ ] i just
00:40:50
do this and that but i think for the most part i was never seriously considering like stopping like
00:40:56
completely but it was definitely something that and my mom and dad had raised that uh raised it to my family
00:41:01
and friends was like if this is making you feel that bad especially when my tourette's thing was really bad and i never knew what it was
00:41:07
my dad gave me i left home from the airport one night after i'd been in london for a week and i was twitching like [ __ ]
00:41:13
to the point where he started crying in the car because he was like this is like a game i never knew it was threats at this
00:41:18
point he was like this is [ __ ] like so like he thought i was having like a seizure next day in the car and i was
00:41:25
mad so like they were obviously concerned and they're like why like just stop don't do
00:41:30
this if it's making you feel less [ __ ] you never had any of this anxiety and before
00:41:35
this all took off but then again when i went to therapy i was like oh i actually did but this kind of just
00:41:43
tipped it over the edge maybe when it became like panic attacks and stuff like expect the live thing was really was
00:41:48
really a big thing we went and played um the grand prix in abu dhabi in december
00:41:54
of last year um just like i said and i was really worried about that and then we came we went on stage and i never i've never had any of those issues like i didn't twitch i didn't have a panic attack whatever and i came off
00:42:07
and i was in the toilet and i was like i could have [ __ ] busted the tails because i was like oh [ __ ] [ __ ] i can actually do this still and not have be
00:42:15
[ __ ] twitching and not be [ __ ] terrified and not all this [ __ ] i mean so um so
00:42:21
that was like a big a big thing but yeah overlockdown stuff i definitely thought initially when it happened it was such a
00:42:27
relief because i was like oh [ __ ] [ __ ] i don't have to go away and do this to her mm-hmm and then go and do festivals
00:42:33
because it was like it kind of gives gave me a moment to kind of address it i don't know saying that obviously no
00:42:39
covered dead and all the stuff that happened and people lost jobs and all the rest of it
00:42:44
that feels like a like a selfish thing to say but at the same time it's like like i don't know how long how much
00:42:50
longer i could have kept up having a panic attack every single [ __ ] night on stage and just like
00:42:56
because it was it was like [ __ ] that was like i i was suffering for sure um and yeah it just wasn't it wasn't fun but again it was like i would come off stage and be absolutely and then i'd be
00:43:07
like oh i'm not i'm not this bad i got to a point where i was having panic attacks because i was anticipating having a
00:43:12
panic attack you know i mean so when you get into that cycle i think you're in real trouble because it's like if you go
00:43:17
looking for something you're gonna [ __ ] find that i mean you talk about um how therapy helped that's really
00:43:24
inspiring to hear because a lot of the time honestly when i sit here with people who are um in that phase of their
00:43:29
life who have been through that they didn't seek out help until much much later in life until you know much much
00:43:35
later after their career yeah um what val and it's also i have to say it's so important and nice to hear your honesty about that because i think
00:43:47
we all i think therapy is something that we should probably all consider if we have the means to do it because
00:43:53
um it's sometimes not like whack-a-mole of seeing a symptom but a preventative measure as well how
00:43:59
was it you can't wait until things are worse to do something about it it has to be something that you continue to [ __ ]
00:44:05
continue to work at like you know what i mean it's just i think people wait until it's like [ __ ] like the worst rock bottom
00:44:13
if you take the steps prior to rock bottom you might not have to reach that man how has it helped you and what does
00:44:18
it taught you because you know i've had a few i've had a few um i've i've tried a few different therapists and that's the thing as well now it's like you kind of go to like
00:44:29
different people when you kind of walk out i think a lot of people might go to a therapist and go ah that doesn't work for me but you have to kind of find the
00:44:36
person yeah exactly exactly so you have to find the person who's right for you um and i'm still like i'm still like
00:44:42
i've just started with a new like i'm still like trying to find the right person but like
00:44:47
i think um it's just for me it was all about like understand that like the first one i did was like cbt yeah yeah therapy for my anxiety and i was like it was just about understanding
00:44:58
what anxiety is and why i'm having these and what like looking out for triggers and
00:45:04
things like that it was it was very much about because at the start when it's not when you're just having plans actually like oh what the [ __ ] is going on this
00:45:10
is mental like why am i feeling this and then every sort of feeling you get when you have a panic attack spurs it on even
00:45:16
more and it becomes a big [ __ ] massive thing and i think when i went to cbt therapy and she was like have you
00:45:22
felt like this if you feel like this you feel this and i was like oh yeah all that [ __ ] and she's like oh that's anxiety and then i remember i used to
00:45:29
this passing out and seizure thing became a big thing as well when i was having panic attacks and she was like right well what happens
00:45:35
if you go if you have a seizure and i go say i don't know i've probably got a hospital and she goes all right so you're in hospital was the best place for you to be after the season she was like i was i'll
00:45:47
probably hospital she was like right cool so what happens if you pass out i goes oh i am i'll probably wake up and
00:45:54
and then i don't know i'm probably hospital he's like it was the best place we would be so it's like that's like [ __ ] i just like really talking it
00:46:00
out and then i never knew what catastrophizing was when it was like that sort of like snowball effective
00:46:06
yeah yeah this thing happens then this thing happens so that was a big thing and yeah so just that
00:46:13
and then the second therapist when it was the person who mentioned the thing about my
00:46:18
my mum's mum and being exposed to like death that young and being around death that young and
00:46:24
kind of just that being a thing with my hypochondria i don't know the rest of it and then i
00:46:29
just think it's just it's so funny like when they make you like speak out like think like so like me saying hussain so what happens if you have a seizure and i go i go to the hospital
00:46:41
and say well where was the best place like i mean it's like so simple it's like so simple but actually from them
00:46:47
making you say it you go oh it makes so much [ __ ] sense um and yeah so it's been it's been a big
00:46:52
help for and again it's like not something that i feel like i fee again it's not something i saw myself doing i've got a therapy on the rest of it but it definitely [ __ ]
00:47:04
makes me feel great like afterwards you just feel that [ __ ] weight has been lifted off your shoulders and then i definitely i like
00:47:11
to say i would i if you have them used to do it as something i would recommend massively i think um
00:47:18
it has helped me like welcome to it continues to help me it's that thing of like so anything it's like you go to the gym
00:47:24
taste it well i don't but you're going to tell me to stay fat like for me like going to therapy is like can i go to the gym to
00:47:30
kind of like help my mind just [ __ ] exactly yeah work through things and having the awareness to know that
00:47:35
you're you are living an extraordinarily unhuman life and i say a human because we're not meant to have feedback at that scale we're not to go meant to go into arenas
00:47:46
i mean if we're probably from our hardwire wiring we're probably meant to be in groups of ten yeah people we know
00:47:51
and love you know small small communities not going to arenas with tens of thousands of people absolutely
00:47:57
man absolutely and i think that's the thing as well as like understanding that you this experience that you've been through as as as as if not the world traumatic is a
00:48:10
[ __ ] big one but as it is it's a massive switch like i was [ __ ] playing pubs at weekends taking money and [ __ ] i was at college uh doing
00:48:20
music because and the only reason i did it was because i was lying on my bed one day and my dad says what are you doing after the summer and i goes oh i don't
00:48:26
know yet i was just gonna play gigs and he was like are you [ __ ] [ __ ] work at something so i thought my friend adam and i was like what
00:48:32
course are you doing i'm doing this music course when done that so i was just [ __ ] like portering around and
00:48:38
then this [ __ ] just kicked off what was your hope for life then if you could if we go back because we just get past that part
00:48:44
what was your what was you if i had asked you at 16 years old what you want to be when you're older what would the answer have been i've always just wanted
00:48:50
to make enough money doing music so i didn't have to get a real job but anything like if i made like
00:48:58
i don't know [ __ ] 500 pound a month i would have been [ __ ] buzzing like i would have been so happy
00:49:04
with that but the first time i met my manager he said to me uh what so what what would be your [ __ ] like
00:49:10
ideal [ __ ] situation and there was an artist called lewis watson at the time who was like playing
00:49:15
who plays like who at the time was playing like kind of size venues in glasgow so that's like 350 people and i
00:49:21
was a huge fan of his and i was like oh well i'd get like lewis watson and be like my goal like that's like that kind of
00:49:26
that cat playing king tuts size venues i've been doing the youtube maps i go my manager was like i think you could do an
00:49:33
arenas okay this is the first state first day i met him i think you could be doing arenas and i was like shut the [ __ ] up like tong pish
00:49:40
whatever and then [ __ ] cut two three years later playing arenas it's like this is madness so it's like
00:49:46
yeah i just wanted to be making enough money playing music that it wasn't that i didn't have to get
00:49:53
for one of the better one real job because this is like and this is this is the thing as well with us
00:49:58
we music as well this is a [ __ ] one of the easiest jobs in the world this is a really easy job the actual job part of
00:50:05
it that's the it's the being it's the famous side of things it's like that causes the anxiety and stuff that's your job is a [ __ ] breeze i'm after one of my friends one of my best pals is a gravedigger like i mean that's a
00:50:17
[ __ ] hard job this is a piece of piss like this is great but it's that it's the kind of
00:50:23
the pressure you put on yourself the fame and stuff like that's like a and i [ __ ] hate being on being like oh fame
00:50:29
man it's really tough but because again it's [ __ ] class and loads of respect but um but yeah so i think it's it's for me it was never i never thought we
00:50:40
would get to this point like i never even when i got signed i didn't think it was going to last and
00:50:46
i've always been told like getting signed means nothing really because it does kind of i mean it's a
00:50:52
nice little tech but it doesn't mean anything more people get dropped than than [ __ ]
00:50:58
to [ __ ] become success stories um so it's always been like stuff that i've i've always just been glass half empty and being like
00:51:10
this probably isn't going to work out but i'm going to [ __ ] try and really give it a go but it probably won't work out so don't get i don't like
00:51:16
to get too [ __ ] aspirational and i wouldn't say i'm necessarily an ambitious person i do think there's people around me who are ambitious and who we have the same
00:51:29
like lofty dreams and they maybe see something in me that again this is something that i cannot be more thankful for for like
00:51:36
labels and agents and prs and my manager and my family and friends stuff they've obviously saw something and thought
00:51:42
for some reason that we could get to a point but personally i just feel like like i'm just happy to play music and specifically play live so if this just
00:51:53
can continue to that i can do that i kind of like big crowds now so it'd be nice to take a step back for at least
00:51:58
two years or whatever but if i can play live music yeah [ __ ] i'll show up and play someone you loved
00:52:03
it any old shape for the next 20 years do i mean i don't give a [ __ ] i'll i'll do that man because it's a
00:52:09
buzz but um but yeah i don't know i just think i've always been that oh that's probably what this is probably the end of the road here this is probably as big as it's going to get and it's just like when i even when
00:52:22
we started doing well in terms of like selling tickets for gigs and stuff i always thought i never ever saw myself
00:52:28
as someone who's going to have a top 40 single so this is after selling out tools and i just thought
00:52:33
oh we could maybe squeeze our top 10 album that was like my big my big thing i was having a thousand album i'll be
00:52:39
[ __ ] happy and then it just [ __ ] took on a life of its own one of the things that i was um
00:52:46
really inspired by and which we kind of skipped over again is this how many years of like practice and
00:52:52
repetition you put in before you got discovered like playing in pubs at like 11 years old and sneaking in and
00:52:58
hiding in the toilets how important in hindsight was that practiced like invaluable yeah so
00:53:05
[ __ ] like like i wouldn't be doing this if i hadn't been for that but that's the thing it's like the love of doing it it
00:53:12
wasn't like it didn't feel like to me like a chore like a [ __ ] and because i wasn't aiming for anything it felt like oh this is the buzz this is the
00:53:20
this is the goal like we've heard yeah well we've done it me when i got on stage when i was 11
00:53:26
hiding toilets when i got on stage i was like [ __ ] i made it this is good like i mean the fact that i didn't kicked out the bulb
00:53:32
again didn't get kicked out of the pub that time that was [ __ ] ground that was always after um
00:53:38
but i saw i i to me that was that was [ __ ] that was the goal just play gags that's class most of my memories are like going out and getting hammered and underage drinking which obviously shouldn't do whatever but it's like um
00:53:49
as that are all related we put gigs on and we we fight our friends at these gigs and like we went we went and hired
00:53:57
problems that we knew served people who were like 16 and like we did that was so my life has been so ingrained in like
00:54:04
doing like music but it never ever felt like even now it doesn't feel like i'm working hard
00:54:10
nothing feels like i'm working hard like without getting to like the number one record at the time didn't feel like i was doing much i just felt like i was because i [ __ ]
00:54:21
loved doing it i didn't feel like i was working really really hard again i think it might be something to the fact that my
00:54:28
brothers are like electricians and my dad's a fishmonger mums and i said i know what i can see like a property
00:54:34
craft compared to finding but like i just never saw it as like [ __ ] oh i'm really in the pits here and i'm [ __ ] like
00:54:44
i just didn't feel like i was working hard and that goes back to like being in those pubs and being in those like
00:54:50
shake bars when knew i was listening to you or playing in a restaurant even when i was thinking [ __ ] if i was eating my
00:54:55
dinner i wouldn't want to hear me [ __ ] singing like that [ __ ] was like that and i think that's a lot to do with
00:55:01
like the the you have to develop a thick again playing in a pub because someone will show you a [ __ ] show
00:55:07
non-stop when you're living well i remember knowing you're 11. but when i started puberty and the cute factor went
00:55:12
away it was like things got dicey for a bit for sure things were actually things were an issue but um
00:55:18
but yeah i think that that and that's what that's any time i see i meet people like young
00:55:23
guys or girls or [ __ ] whoever that wants to be a musician and it's like what did you do whatever it's just plague x just
00:55:30
immediately go and play right don't focus on a lot of people are like oh i'm going to look this way and i'm going to
00:55:36
[ __ ] i'm going to [ __ ] this is how we're going to perform on stage and it's just like just go do it just go play gigs
00:55:42
don't worry about releasing you don't have to release music i never released a song i never did like an official release
00:55:48
like like any like [ __ ] the first song i ever released was bruises which was on my album that's the first one i've ever put out like ricotta went and recorded like a minute and
00:55:59
reconstructed and did some demos before but that was the first song i have a popular god dude because i've been writing songs for [ __ ]
00:56:05
at that point i would have i would have been 20 when that came out so 10 years i've been writing songs for with 12 because i started running sometimes nine so 12 years i've been
00:56:17
writing songs for i got to a point where i was just like but it was never in my head about
00:56:22
releasing music because i was like oh i just want to play live like it was just this this thing that i just kept doing in tandem
00:56:28
with playing live so for me it's just like that's what i say people just go do it and just go [ __ ] get the
00:56:34
experience i remember going to college when we were 18 and my like all these people who were really talented musicians and singers and [ __ ] like
00:56:45
they had never but they'd never played their live kick and i was so surprised by it because they were [ __ ] much much more like technically gifted than
00:56:52
all the rest of it and better singers and all that [ __ ] than me but the fact that we were we had played live so
00:56:58
much me and my uh friend adam who was a topic and paige who was my girlfriend ex-girlfriend who love island one of 2020 but she
00:57:10
she but she she was the same she'd done loads of gigs adam had done loads of things like we all drove to thinking together
00:57:17
um and it was like with that sort of experience and gigging that we all had became like
00:57:24
it was just so that it was so apparently that sort of like kind of disparity and not again these
00:57:30
people were much better musicians and like singers and everything than i was but like when you got on stage it was
00:57:36
like there was a marked difference i think just because it was like you had that comfortability of being up there and
00:57:42
doing it and like i think my voice is that i sound the way i sound because they're playing in pubs like that sort of like loud
00:57:49
[ __ ] because you had to [ __ ] sing above the noise of people talking push and like drinking all the rest and like i think yeah it says
00:57:59
if i hadn't done that looking back now i'm like oh that's that was the [ __ ] that was the the kind of game changer
00:58:06
like this is not an easy question for someone that's self-deprecating but when you look back in hindsight as you said
00:58:11
there and you go do you know because we all do it we go what what was the reason why i was because you've been wildly
00:58:17
wildly [ __ ] successful i mean i probably don't have the right words to describe just how big
00:58:22
your your records got and i'm a huge fan of yours you have a music chat and i really am i like you know um
00:58:28
in the same way i'm a big fan of adele i'm a big fan of ed sheeran you are your record your records reached that level
00:58:35
thanks in hindsight so you say okay i'm doing those pub gigs and the repetitions there but what else
00:58:41
i think um no self-defecation because i'm a [ __ ] although i do think that was a big thing for sure um i think i i remember when i first started using
00:58:53
like social media to do the for music it was the 1975 what kind of the main band and everyone's like you have to be mysterious and you have to be sort of like you know they were doing like the gaps between the letters and all the
00:59:05
rest and it was very like black and white really cool remember if you look but i mean it's all probably archived now but if you look
00:59:11
way back at the start of things i'm like trying to do that and then after that kind of faded out
00:59:17
but that was everybody everyone was going any cool meetings and i was like oh you had to be like kind of mysterious cool like black and white like
00:59:23
whatever and then [ __ ] we then went on to just i was just kind of using it to be like oh i'm
00:59:30
doing this today because i had actually stopped using all social media when i was 16. i didn't have instagram i didn't
00:59:35
have facebook i didn't have any [ __ ] because i was just like i thought i was being cool and edgy by being off credits or whatever but i was
00:59:40
actually just a kind but um yeah i just started using it like oh playing [ __ ] dr doc festival in bristol today or whatever and then it wasn't until like
00:59:53
i think i thought that we had reached our peak in terms of like music and all the rest of it like the
00:59:59
first episodes did really well and then they kind of the releases in between there was a song called rush but these are songs i still love song called rush and song called tough tough we thought was like this angle we
01:00:10
thought this is the one that's gonna [ __ ] if anyone was going to like blow up that's that one
01:00:16
it did [ __ ] all right um absolutely [ __ ] off and i think at that point we were like
01:00:21
okay this is kind of racist peak we haven't reached the heights of bruce's because bruce's kind of blew up online
01:00:27
um him reese wright hates the bruises and that's going to be a song and whatever blah blah so then i just like
01:00:32
didn't give a [ __ ] on instagram and i was just like just doing stuff that i thought me like me and my pals would laugh at and
01:00:38
[ __ ] just talk absolutely [ __ ] shy and just genuinely like being myself or instagram
01:00:44
really which was taking the pacific things and taking the pacific being famous i remember that the first one
01:00:50
that i remember was coming back from an american tour we had played like places in the kind of
01:00:57
nice shows in america and it was this big spread in the um and like the sun or some other newspaper
01:01:03
well i don't know but like some other newspaper um so this big spread that i said like
01:01:09
lewis capaldi no hiding place now and when i had been in that and on the american tour this girl in philadelphia had given me these stupid [ __ ] glasses like these stupid [ __ ] daft
01:01:19
cat eye glasses and i had the moment and i was like i don't know if it was jet lag i'd just
01:01:25
be an exhausted thing but i started filming myself and being like yeah i'm [ __ ] so famous now by the way it's
01:01:30
unbelievable that's me no hiding place now please [ __ ] stop just talking partial
01:01:35
put the glasses on i was like this is again just a name shy not thinking about it like taking the piss and then people just really reacted to it
01:01:47
again it wasn't something that i was then like and no one was like oh we have to this is a thing though we just kind of left
01:01:53
it and just kept the more and more i just got comfortable just talking to your [ __ ] phone and taking the piss and realizing you know
01:02:00
what social media is actually a mistake like just don't use everything serious just have a laugh and
01:02:07
i think that was like the the the the big thing on that when it was like okay i found my feet and i found my voice
01:02:14
and i just started to capacity of things and and just realizing oh you can actually just you can philly just put a picture of you
01:02:21
where towel wraps around your head and these stupid glasses on me on top of you can put that on a big massive poster on
01:02:26
the chip that's great yeah like all that [ __ ] yeah yeah it's like why not do that like like you don't
01:02:31
have to look good or kill on it or whatever you need to do a [ __ ] stupid thing we did that whole christmas thingy
01:02:37
where it was just close-up picture in my face less and it just says merry christmas for musicality there was no way we weren't promoting
01:02:44
anything anything like i just that was it was all in the tube no label would ever tell you that is the strategy to become successful and yet
01:02:52
for many people that will actually be well for some people that'll be how they discovered you i remember that video of you
01:02:58
you found out your net worth oh yeah no one would ever tell you to do that never marketing strategy well that but this is a thing that now that someone
01:03:20
was like we started to see other mostly male artists doing it and like doing like very close things to you and not to be like oh you [ __ ] called me
01:03:32
because it's like whatever it's people taking a person trying to do your thing try whatever you can i get how hard it is [ __ ] let's do it i remember seeing
01:03:38
a tweet somebody saying a few years ago labels were telling people to be like the 1975 and now you're going to
01:03:44
meetings people telling people we'll be able to capable i can't remember who did it but i could probably find it but like i remember reading that and being like
01:03:51
is it like because obviously i'm just doing whatever and i'm like is that a thing and then like i just started
01:03:58
seeing it for more and more people and then i was oh this is [ __ ] great like cool we're all just being ourselves this
01:04:03
is great but you see some people doing it and that's not their personality and you can kind of see it yeah they can't
01:04:08
fake it either exactly and i think that's the thing and i don't know i know i'm not really sure what it would be but then like someone like
01:04:16
like that you look at it now and it's like people who are themselves like dojika and lizzo are two people who just
01:04:21
are themselves and people love them for it there's a name i'm forgetting um young uh young blood no an an artist in america who did that
01:04:31
song about riding a horse oh hello nurse and exactly that's our thing and now obviously he's doing so much for the lgbt plus um
01:04:43
representation especially in like hip hop and all the rest of it it's [ __ ] it's amazing and i think yeah people who
01:04:49
are that's the thing now you're seeing people who are themselves it's less about being like a polished [ __ ]
01:04:55
pop star whatever people people because i think people now see through that [ __ ] like people see
01:05:00
like well you're way more relatable than some perfect beautiful like some like one like a david beckham model with like six-pack
01:05:12
habs who is faultless yeah and just is pr trained oh yeah i can't relate to that yeah of course but then
01:05:18
what's funny then is it becomes such a part like it becomes a point where that tons of people start going
01:05:25
oh well that's just i remember being a story and like this i think one of those people got in touch saying oh there's a
01:05:31
story that um lewis has a comedy writer is that true i took college lessons and i'm like if i
01:05:37
take comments i think i'll be coming with a better [ __ ] than [ __ ] i'm fat and i'm and i'm like falling in that joke i mean i think i'd be able to [ __ ] yeah
01:05:43
i'd have better [ __ ] material i mean but um get me something on the phone james he cast it on the phone but like um no it was like so then that becomes like
01:05:56
that then turns and it's like people are like oh he's [ __ ] he's trying too hard now and you're like i'm just doing
01:06:01
the [ __ ] same thing i was last like do i mean for the last 10 years but um but i think that that yeah people people
01:06:08
do like when you again when you can see someone's not being themselves like when we were doing that and there was other people doing the same [ __ ] as it was
01:06:15
like that's not i can see that that's not you and that but that was like nothing that's probably a label that's been like
01:06:21
this is working for that current yeah do this like i mean there's a juxtaposition with you though because because of the
01:06:27
music you make i'll be honest so i heard your music first loved your music all that stuff then i'm on twitter one day
01:06:33
and i see this guy talking about his network and sitting in his like mum's bedroom being like where the [ __ ] is this money don't tell the tax man and
01:06:40
i'm thinking that's the guy out here because this guy is a comedian and he's he's not serious at all
01:06:47
and then this guy in the music is deep profound and serious and emotional yeah it felt like two different people so that's actually what make for me made it even more like shocking but cool yeah surprising
01:07:00
100 and i think i think a lot of people had that i never noticed that as like a thing like i
01:07:06
never um i never like saw that as a thing until people started pointing out it's like
01:07:11
you know you're not like your songs talk torn because i never really thought about it i mean like i'd always just [ __ ]
01:07:17
made tunes and then was who i was i mean but it's easier to write a bit sad things i guess like it's hard to write
01:07:24
about like has it always been easy to write about something i remember reading about this moment when someone turned to you and said how's your life going when
01:07:29
you were like 18 19 and yeah yeah that changed everything for you yeah so up until then i probably i was writing songs and i'd learned how to like craft
01:07:36
a song but i wasn't like writing anything with any like [ __ ] like meaning or like yeah like i
01:07:42
was all kind of making up stories or whatever just like they weren't really about anything
01:07:48
um and then you got me you come out and you go into like co-writing sessions in london i think i was i might have been
01:07:53
17 on my first one um and you go in and someone goes oh this is it's actually with a guy called green who i still see now and then honestly he's a great writer great producer
01:08:04
any ego like so what's going on in your life man how you doing like what do i write about and i'm like what the [ __ ]
01:08:10
are you talking like who are you like i've just met you and you're asking me like how i'm doing and what's going on my life like it was almost like
01:08:17
like aggressive the way i was saying i was like stand over i was like [ __ ] you like i just remember thinking that and then
01:08:23
over time that becomes you realize that's like the people want like talk about that and it's like
01:08:29
that's what makes great songs is like if you have these um yeah if you have these
01:08:36
real stories behind them and these real emotions behind them um and that's not to say you can't write a great song and it's just god was a good
01:08:42
like [ __ ] i remember years and years ago that but um remember that robbie williams song hey oh here she goes you
01:08:48
really do that great chin right but i mean i haven't i don't know if you've been like oh it doesn't mean anything it's just like it's just all like
01:08:55
cool and thing and it's a great song i [ __ ] love that song but like it was like
01:09:01
when it came to writing my songs i found that that was like oh this is the [ __ ]
01:09:07
this is the thing i've kind of been missing is like it's weird that it took writing with someone else to bring out
01:09:13
more of myself in the tunes are you in touch with your emotions i think so i think like i i think it's
01:09:20
really important to feel how you're feeling so meaning like if i feel wake up the
01:09:26
one thing i feel sad i think it's important like there's a reason i'm sad and i should sit with it and feel it
01:09:33
rather than like ah put it off for like not kind of explore i think it is quite important to like try your best to [ __ ]
01:09:44
just just like not trying to put off being [ __ ] sad just leads to like for me a big [ __ ] hole where you're going to like really really
01:09:55
you're going to just go off a cliff at one point and you can't keep putting off or like putting it in boozing instead of [ __ ] dealing with stuff for whatever
01:10:02
i see me being happy if you're happy [ __ ] great feel it i always [ __ ] like getting like
01:10:08
really melancholic after especially like so i just did like my first show and years
01:10:13
with my band over the weekend they're in denmark and then coming back home sunday
01:10:19
kind of saturday afternoon sunday and i was just in my empty flat and i was like [ __ ] i feel like i feel like [ __ ] i feel
01:10:25
really sad now because i've just had this amazing [ __ ] like i like to come down high and let the calm down was just like thank you but i thought it's
01:10:30
important to like sit with that and then enjoy it and kind of like not dissect it as such but just
01:10:36
like kind of let it sort of take you obviously don't let it run away but just kind of like
01:10:42
deal with it don't deny it yeah exactly don't be like nah i'm grounded i'm gonna take see now if i'm anxious i'll feel
01:10:47
anxious and be like okay i'm feeling anxious that's fine i don't know why i'm feeling this could be this given this could be
01:10:54
this i know a lot of people who journal and write down like i'm feeling access because of this what can i control what
01:10:59
can i not all the rest it um and i think yeah i try and i try and sit with things i do think since i've been famous of stuff that i'm
01:11:10
like less and maybe in touch with like i've been like like i've really like relationships i feel like i've become quite a closed off person not unlike with my parents or
01:11:22
anything else but like if i'm starting a new relationship or trying to start a relationship i can be quite a romantic
01:11:27
relationship yeah yeah i can be quite like i don't know shut off like a shield is that yeah yeah for sure and i guess
01:11:32
that's just a response to you know everything that's happened but it's definitely like
01:11:38
so you mean like when if you meet someone new so if it's romantic partner or if it's new people you can kind of
01:11:44
keep a wall up because yeah yeah and i feel like i can like i can be i can have it's kind of like i feel like i can give this maybe more friendship but i can
01:11:56
give people the impression that i'm like giving them everything but really i know like i'm [ __ ]
01:12:01
defending certain things like what i don't know just like my own sort of like maybe like insecurities about things my own worries about things because you
01:12:12
think if you share that then it's just quite a vulnerable position to be in and then it's like you don't really know you don't want to give that
01:12:18
straight away yeah yeah taught it because it might you don't have to react to it totally hard understand and it's like you don't really want any
01:12:24
i don't know you just you're kind of careful about who you share that with and who's how you spend your time with in general but like it's
01:12:31
easier sometimes you just not give that away the end to give them the like the public image first yeah yeah
01:12:37
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because that's the thing there's where everyone has a perception of who you are and like even if i'm on dating apps or whatever
01:12:43
it's kind of weirdly one-sided but i'm asking them a bunch of [ __ ] because it's like they can google yeah they know loads of
01:12:49
things and they've either seen an interview or [ __ ] head on the radio or and it's like this is one of the things
01:12:55
i think i'm quite open and um interviews and stuff like that but i do think there's still a lot of things
01:13:00
people don't know about me like the certain questions i won't get asked because of like i've always wanted to ask someone this question i'm not sure i've ever asked it but um it's i sat one day
01:13:11
with myself and i thought what's the question as someone that's always doing interviews always talking what's the question someone should ask me what's
01:13:17
the best question they should probably should ask me because i'd love to ask that question to someone else one day and the best question i could come up
01:13:23
with is steve if i was committed to myself steve what is the question that no one asks
01:13:28
you that they should be asking you that would reveal the most interesting untapped answer now i'm gonna ask you that question and then i'll answer it myself as well which i've
01:13:40
never done before okay um [ __ ] i don't know like what's the question that you think you know if you'd asked
01:13:46
me that if i would have found out something that oh i don't know um maybe like things like what makes you happy like genuinely what makes you happy because i can think about loads of
01:13:59
things i might be sad but i'm quite hard to like music became a like a hobby that became
01:14:05
a job and now i like find in my life there's a lot of gaps in terms of like what i i can do to like
01:14:11
make myself like like other than [ __ ] i'm sorry i'm abstaining from alcohol in
01:14:17
a minute i'm not like [ __ ] thinking but like i've been off it for like three four weeks or whatever just because we're doing we're busy
01:14:23
doing all this [ __ ] so i want to be okay and it's like other than like and again this is part of where i grew up other
01:14:28
than like going out at the beginning and pissed it's like what do you do or like are like playing shows what do you do that actually makes you
01:14:34
happy and i think a lot i i kind of don't know do you know what i mean other than like my music and back to me
01:14:43
yeah that's a very strange position to be in and it's like i don't know where i would start to like
01:14:50
to try and find something like that you know what i mean is that in part because your success took your
01:14:55
your whole passion yeah yeah exactly yeah exactly it takes your passion to me because it kind of turns it into it's
01:15:01
monetization yeah yeah it's responsibility it's [ __ ] pressure it's your abandoned crew who've got kids and stuff like that
01:15:08
that you feel kind of responsible for in a way and then it's like the pressures of [ __ ]
01:15:14
trying not to say the wrong thing especially in [ __ ] these times when trying not to say the wrong thing all the time [ __ ]
01:15:20
um like trying not to like you don't you don't want to upset anybody so try not to upset anybody and also the pressure of [ __ ] that first
01:15:30
album did well what says next i'm going to do like this sort of uncertainty i think a lot of people as
01:15:36
well think just because the first album started well the second dance to go into great and it's just not this is not the
01:15:41
case you're only as good as your next song i think i wanna one of the things that i think is important for you to know is that is not a lewis capaldi
01:15:48
thing that is a human thing i remember reading one day about a study which i actually wrote about my book where they
01:15:54
got people to do a task right a game that they enjoyed doing sure and they measured their success performance and
01:16:00
all those kind of things happiness and then they got them to do the exact same task but they paid them to do it exactly
01:16:07
and their motivation and happiness dropped and it's and it's so paradoxical you don't think well if you pay me to do
01:16:12
something that i love my joy of doing it will drop that makes absolutely no sense but you're right it
01:16:18
shifts from being passion as the key incentive and motivator to money or responsibility yeah um and it's even something i think about with this podcast because i started it because i love it i love having these
01:16:31
conversations and no one's [ __ ] listening yeah yeah totally knowing all of this and about how motivation money i
01:16:36
just want to keep fighting for the bit that i love and doing it my way and not allowing you're good at this because i know you
01:16:42
cancelled some shows when you just needed some time it's just taking some [ __ ] time when i need it and saying no totally and i think that's the thing
01:16:48
that's like that we're like we're saying about stopping before you are stopped you get drink you know
01:16:54
what i mean it's like stopping when you have the it's you who's made it rather than oh you physically can't do this
01:16:59
just now because you're in such a bad way but what was that what was the question that you'd probably have to learn
01:17:06
you remembered yeah come on um i don't think people ask me so it would be around how i've dealt with
01:17:18
the shift in my life from going from being like someone that no the newspapers didn't write about to being
01:17:25
getting emails from the big newspaper saying is this story true about your past or your life and like in those
01:17:31
moments it's really [ __ ] me like it's like so i've had just this like now the media
01:17:36
seem to care about my life and sometimes they say things which aren't true and i had thousands of employees so
01:17:42
they went back through all of my employees and remember this one article where they like found like three of them which was like 0.01 percent of my
01:17:49
improvements and i'd never met these three people and they and those three people had a bad experience they wrote a story about it um
01:17:55
not bad experience with me but a bad experience with someone in my business and that like crippled me for like many days i was i couldn't think about
01:18:01
anything else i was in like and that is probably my actually probably my first experience with something that i would
01:18:07
call anxiety just like feeling like nervous for like days on end yeah totally and it's over control as well
01:18:14
i even even with all my experience doing this podcast and speaking to hundreds and thousands hundreds of successful
01:18:20
people about anxiety and all those things and how you deal with it you would think i would be an expert yeah totally no [ __ ] yeah
01:18:26
yeah no i'm not and i still don't know i still don't know how to if i get into one of those moments i never got into it before
01:18:33
it was only public attention that did it to me yeah i mean business pressure never there's public attention in like i
01:18:40
don't even say i'm famous but quote unquote like being in the public spotlight i mean we go this is a new feeling yeah because
01:18:48
you can't you can't control other people's perception of you you can't control how
01:18:53
how you are perceived by the way the public people will make like there is i remember how did the brit awards
01:18:59
to just announce an award they'll be there like last year or something i wasn't there performing that i went and
01:19:05
i was like oh [ __ ] um i can't remember i said i think i went the crowd was like cheering all
01:19:10
that and i went shut up shut up shut up very like jovial no one was offended you
01:19:15
go online and there's like comments like he's so disrespectful because it was nhs workers in the [ __ ]
01:19:26
he's so unlike that's so disrespectful my mom works for the nhs by the way right i've said much more on the shop
01:19:32
but but yeah it's that thing it's that that i totally can empathize with that situation because it's just [ __ ] like you you've gotten to do this you're only doing this because you love doing this
01:19:44
and then in your business because you've lived in your business and that's that you're not trained and no one's trained humans aren't meant to have [ __ ]
01:19:49
millions of people i'm going to come back to something you said earlier because we glazed past that and my brain has just gone go back to that sure
01:19:56
you're you're on tinder oh yeah yeah yeah i'm dating i've just been kicked off with tender right because i think people
01:20:03
think i'm a bit important fake yeah so i've been kicked off with bumble tinder hinge and hinges the one i really like i
01:20:10
love tinder right turner's great but i just want to really like again because i feel like that's no like mid 20s like
01:20:15
that's what people are on um i'm on i'm on oh yeah i'm on a bunch of them don't worry about that but then and then i'll
01:20:21
go oh god this i got on this one someone else they told me again this thing called field and i was like okay there's another [ __ ] dating app whatever and
01:20:28
i go on it and it's like so sexual it's unbelie like it's all about like like kinks and [ __ ] bdsm and i'm like this is way beyond like anything i'm
01:20:38
like tuned in for but like yeah but kicked off hinge bumble tenderized because i'm thinking i'm still [ __ ] 25. but i
01:20:46
think as well i always struggle with like i don't want to like there's always like people who talk
01:20:51
about things like with a power imbalance of like someone being famous or whatever not but i'm trying to like work that out as well
01:20:57
that's like a new thing of like i don't want to like use my fame or i don't i don't want to have any influence over someone who i'm gonna i'm dating but then at the same time it's obviously
01:21:09
kind of like and it's unavoidable yeah and it's like i can't what am i only supposed to date people who are also
01:21:15
famous like fit that's a really weird thing so it's that thing of like yeah as strange that i i don't matter
01:21:21
beyond tender it's a bit weird and they'll last girl nintendo she's [ __ ] great so this is brilliant like this is after i've been famous is there a part
01:21:27
of you that hopes they don't give a [ __ ] about it and don't know who you are um no i i think i'm like
01:21:34
because again it's that way of like 20 any girl from like 22 to 25 is probably gonna no again that's like sounds wanky but just
01:21:46
age range like [ __ ] nowhere to hide yes you know what i mean exactly yeah nobody hey i'm [ __ ] famous um
01:21:51
but i think i cannot i cannot want them to if they know there's nothing worse than a girl gone oh i didn't even like realize like there is like i hate that when you can like
01:22:03
tell that someone's talking about sometimes it's so [ __ ] totally thinking but sometimes when people out like i just doesn't know when
01:22:10
people like i don't know if you've had this since like that's all blown up but like i've got girlfriend mate so i don't know
01:22:17
but like when people come up to you anybody comes up to you and they love to let you know that they don't give a [ __ ]
01:22:22
who you are it's like they almost i don't even know who you are i don't give a [ __ ]
01:22:28
and you're like all right like feels mutual like what the [ __ ] is this like you don't have to come up and tell me that you didn't know that it's [ __ ]
01:22:34
brutal but um so like and sometimes that happens in dating as well when it's like yeah i don't even [ __ ] care about
01:22:39
like who you are whatever and it's just like okay this is like you don't have to tell me that like just like we can just have
01:22:45
a conversation with two human beings whatever but um yeah i think i would rather if they did
01:22:53
know who i was that i was like oh yeah like let your music's killer blah blah i probably wouldn't if someone was like
01:23:00
[ __ ] like if someone was like for example if i made a girl a gig no yeah i probably wouldn't maybe back
01:23:07
like ages ago when i was playing small games but like now it just feels a bit that feels weird to me yeah that's a
01:23:14
very big um thing that feels like maybe taking advantage of your position so i'm probably gonna do that i wouldn't do
01:23:19
that don't stop but i think yeah if someone was like into the music that's great if someone
01:23:25
was like oh that's not really my thing but cool someone hated it absolutely fine as well but um i just think i saw
01:23:32
people to be as up front as possible rather than be like uh yeah oh are you that oh is that like
01:23:38
your song whatever blah blah blah but it's like you just want people to be genuine right yeah exactly exactly that's yeah because if they're not then
01:23:45
there's trust question marks right i think of course of course and i think that that's again maybe a big thing i'd like the whole
01:23:51
not giving too much of myself away and all the rest of it like and putting those walls up how how is dating in relationships and
01:23:58
all that in your life now because do you have do you have um do you have trust issues that people are going for you for the wrong reasons that's the question i get asked a lot
01:24:09
it's like how would you should be like dragon's den and people know you for like money yeah yeah totally people think that you're going to attract a certain type of yes of course of course
01:24:16
i mean yeah totally but this is m the really good bit and the trip with steve coogler and rob brydon when he
01:24:22
goes oh well she's only going out are you famous because you're famous and i see who goes but i am famous that's like
01:24:28
me saying he's only going out with you because you're good-looking and young like yeah it's that thing i'm like it's such a big
01:24:33
part right now at least right now in my life of who i am and that it's hard to get away from i i
01:24:40
i think that's kony listen more for some crazy coincidence more girls are interested in me now than there were a couple of years really i don't know what it is
01:24:53
but it's definitely changed they read about your net worth yeah yeah yeah [ __ ] but it's not to say like and i don't but
01:24:59
like it's a like again it's not a thing of like see people not feel like they know you and like all the rest of it and
01:25:04
they've seen your personality and you've maybe made them laugh or like whatever that can be
01:25:09
attractive thank you and as as well you maybe have this er people think you're confident because like or at least with people within confident because of how i am on like if i'm on a
01:25:20
talk show or if i'm on like my instagram people assume that i'm a lot more kind of confident and i've
01:25:26
had a few beers i'm going to be more chatty and i wouldn't i wouldn't say so not really again it's that thing of like feeling really open to like
01:25:39
people like it's like that you're kind of put on display like i i feel like i i hate i don't know i just don't think i'm
01:25:49
yeah no i wouldn't say i'm not as confident as i was when i was a kid let's put that away i mean i don't think anyone else but like i don't some days i
01:25:55
feel really outgoing and i'm like oh i'm really chatting some days i struggle to talk to my friends like see sometimes
01:26:01
i'll just be like there'll be a bunch of us around there will be honest and then like three of them will leave and it'll just be me one of one of the pal and in
01:26:07
my head i'm like [ __ ] what do you say to your friends again like i mean it's that way where you just stand your head and you get my head now but like
01:26:13
um i can't think of anything to say you know what i mean so sometimes that happens like there's been times where i've done interviews people
01:26:19
and i've been really chatty and outgoing because it's like it's a setup thing they're asking me questions i don't
01:26:25
necessarily esm anything and it's quite easy to just kind of look into that rhythm but where it's like
01:26:31
and maybe it's maybe part of doing interviews because a lot of the the sort of interactions i have people are very
01:26:38
like one-sided ask a question i'll answer that ask a question whereas and now i kind of
01:26:43
sometimes i'm a bit especially in a romantic setting i'm a bit like [ __ ] what did i say to us like what did i say
01:26:50
to this person and it's something that yeah i mean you get better obviously but um and plus it's an interesting thing as
01:26:56
well because if someone knows what you do it's quite an it's like a job that yeah they might so they might still have any questions and it becomes a bit of a
01:27:02
problem is it can become a bit of a q a and that's exhausting yeah yeah totally you want to be doing that on the [ __ ] weekend no no i totally 100 like people
01:27:09
asking like oh how's the gigs going or how's like writing new music going you're like you're going to give the dude answers which is just yeah
01:27:15
that's good all right and you know like they don't really care yeah yeah yeah isn't that the worst type of question when you know someone's asking a question and they don't really care yeah of course i absolutely just buy small
01:27:28
talk yeah as you can probably tell from this podcast yeah i totally agree but then it's very again how often in the real world can you start a
01:27:42
conversation with a really deep question never exactly that's what it's like and that's the question yeah we got off to
01:27:48
this [ __ ] great start and it's like like even even before the podcast and stuff it was like having each other it was about
01:27:53
[ __ ] proper and deep stuff so i was like but in real life if you walk up to sunday and tesco's or whatever and go like
01:27:59
tell me about key points in your life it's like then we were like what the [ __ ]
01:28:04
you stopped by some bread i mean i think that's thank you but um but yeah that's what
01:28:11
i'm saying it's like so refreshing to have these conversations and actually speak about these things because it's like there's just no other situation where
01:28:17
you can actually sit there and talk to us unless it's like your family or friends but even then it's like sometimes when you go to your parents
01:28:23
you know what i have [ __ ] big teachers just like be with your parents and enjoy being with your parents and like just sit and have
01:28:29
dinner and just enjoy either yeah just be there rather than be like oh explain your whole life yeah totally
01:28:36
i mean i think yeah so these these situations that are very i mean i don't often have we don't
01:28:42
often have conversations just deep in front of cameras like that's my cameras but like i think um yes
01:28:49
it's always refreshing when you think so you got you know you now realize that there is
01:28:54
and i hate to i can add more pressure but you know there's an exp there's the people are waiting now for this
01:28:59
for new music at some point whenever it's going to be coming um how do you feel how are you feeling about that how you feeling oh i'm like changing the [ __ ] myself the point's
01:29:09
making this [ __ ] new music where i was like i don't actually [ __ ] care about this am i just going for the motions and writing this writing these
01:29:15
songs and all this and then there was be days where i'm like [ __ ] um the sweat on this so now the album's done and every single song i
01:29:22
[ __ ] love and i think is a better album the first one and i really care about it and i really put a lot
01:29:28
because i write about a lot more stuff that i would never spoke about in the first album like pertaining to
01:29:33
my own mental health and like my own sort of outlook on things regarding being famous or whatever um and i think like that it was kind of like a nice
01:29:45
thing to be scared because i'm like oh [ __ ] i really really want this to go well because i really care about this album and i i realized i'm really keen
01:29:52
about making this music and being able to put out and having this privileged position to be able to [ __ ] go and do
01:29:57
that but yeah i'd be lying if i said that was anything other than absolutely [ __ ] bricking it it's like it's a serious eh
01:30:04
and it's like it's that thing as well like like i said earlier where people like ah man you can [ __ ] shout you could fart in the mic
01:30:11
and go [ __ ] top 10 or whatever just because the last album did well does not mean that at all it's
01:30:16
like [ __ ] as nonsense like people want good music everything the music [ __ ] that it's not
01:30:22
it's not going to fly do that mean but you've done the bit you can control yes 100 but is there not now risk of
01:30:30
putting your emotions on the uncontrollable like there's nothing now you can do once you've written music and you've you've done the hard bit there's
01:30:36
nothing more that you can do to control obviously you can do promo and stuff but that's not gonna you know that won't yeah that's not gonna be the thing that
01:30:42
pushes over the edge yeah no totally and and as that as like the [ __ ] unknown as [ __ ] that i can't control when it is up to [ __ ] i don't know a [ __ ] higher power of faith or whatever i
01:30:53
don't know but like it's uh it's still still quite hard it's one of those things where no amount of therapy
01:30:59
i think is going to help me not focus on that yeah and it's like i'm quite bad for like having anticipation anxiety
01:31:06
being like because i'm ready to [ __ ] go now like i'm ready to go like someone suggested that we push things back a bit
01:31:11
melody a bit more and i was like i cannot wait like any longer to put this music out this is like this has to go
01:31:18
out and as well if you wait too long it's [ __ ] the album starts to mean less to you and you kind of like you get
01:31:23
further away from writing those songs and what they meant to whatever so um can i ask you a question yes
01:31:29
if it goes really well so if it goes bad i kind of can guess how you probably might feel yeah but if
01:31:35
it goes really well how will you feel i don't know this is like i'm kind of worried that if it goes bad i'll be
01:31:41
relieved because i'll be like oh [ __ ] [ __ ] that all that pressure's off you know i mean like some part of me
01:31:48
kind of feels like that and then part of me feels like oh no if it goes well i'll be relieved but then sometimes i'm like
01:31:54
oh but if it goes well i'll be like [ __ ] i've got all this at least like i mean there's only like
01:31:59
if it goes well surely that just means more prying eyes and more like fame and more like thing which again is [ __ ] great a lot of the time but it has its pitfalls and it's like
01:32:11
will that then feed into the anxiety more or is this my anxiety now i've learned to deal with it
01:32:17
or will it get worse or will it expand or will it show itself in different ways what would you say to a friend if they
01:32:23
were going through thinking all the things you're thinking what would you say if you were if i was your best mate we'd known each other since we were kids and i was saying all this stuff to you
01:32:29
what would you say to me i don't know i'd say just like remember why you got into in the first
01:32:34
place remember doing that don't don't feel like you're working towards some end product feel like you're you're
01:32:40
this is the end product you're enjoying it this is what you're supposed to be doing you're here [ __ ] be here don't [ __ ]
01:32:48
you're not there's no [ __ ] it's not a destiny like this pure like on a [ __ ] card but like there's no destination
01:32:53
that you're trying to get to but like just [ __ ] like this is the fun part like this is this is supposed to be fun
01:32:59
let it be fun do you know what i mean because i think the only thing that's stopping being fun is [ __ ]
01:33:04
my mind i mean so i mean it's easier to say that to people than decisions yeah it is you're right
01:33:10
but they say they say i've read the quote i've posted this a few times myself where you say you know if you always go through life believing
01:33:16
happiness is somewhere else then it will never be where you are it's like deferring the happiness to a future moment but it's like a mirage you
01:33:22
see it in like when people are in those like movies in the desert and they see i know you're like chasing a rainbow it just keeps moving off further into the
01:33:28
future and i think that that's the the thing as well i haven't done all this mad [ __ ]
01:33:33
and then been to like um the grammys [ __ ] hate the grammys [ __ ] been to a bunch other world shows that i didn't really enjoy the the what i loved the most was the
01:33:44
awards the night that i had won two awards not because i won the awards but because it was like the first time i've
01:33:49
ever felt like oh [ __ ] we're celebrating this my mom and dad were there three of my best pals for home we're like well
01:33:55
able to come down and do it the people who'd walked on the record was actually sitting at the table with me we were
01:34:00
like like label wise and manager-wise and that we're like that felt like an amazing moment and then you realize
01:34:06
it's because there was all these people there it wasn't like because of you yeah i'm there and i've won something or
01:34:11
whatever it's because you're celebrating this way like people that you love and people that you that have been through it all with you
01:34:18
and yeah my mom and dad obviously my mum gave birth to me by the way yeah yeah like
01:34:24
so like my mum and dad and then my friends who i've grown up with and then these people who have put their [ __ ] blood sweat and tears and making the
01:34:30
record with me and then like the label and stuff have [ __ ] worked so hard and promoting it and getting out there and
01:34:37
i think that's that was what like what you'd realize is like i mean again it's like so [ __ ]
01:34:42
like cliche however but that is like you were like [ __ ] this is genuinely why it's fun like because you're getting to share this moment with all these other people when it's not anything to do with like you
01:34:53
say getting to a point like getting to the brits and winning a brick was very i was
01:34:58
having a [ __ ] great night that night regardless you know what i mean like there was nothing that was going to like either way yeah i mean if i'd lost i
01:35:04
wouldn't have been like oh [ __ ] i lost nice room and i'm going home it would have been like all right kill let's [ __ ] kick on i just so happened that
01:35:10
i won these two things i had to care about me for the rest of the night i mean [Laughter] but then like and then going to the grammys i remember grammys start to
01:35:22
finish had a panic attack the whole time it was [ __ ] dreadful hated every moment of it
01:35:27
and when we didn't win i mean feeling like oh thank god and like i just kind of like
01:35:32
melted away because it was like fun [ __ ] i don't need to go and do that [ __ ] i don't know if it maybe it was like
01:35:38
[ __ ] this is good i don't know if maybe in my head i'm like oh [ __ ] if we were to win something like that that's like more and more eyes on you that maybe you
01:35:45
can't handle at this moment in time i don't know if it's my body like telling me something but i [ __ ] hated the grammys pish
01:35:52
like all these things were like and at that time it was just me my manager and like the guys who wrote
01:35:57
something live with like i think when you can see the people i mean i love them to bits but and when you can
01:36:04
see like the people you're like who have kind of made you who you are as it were enjoying the things that you're enjoying
01:36:11
and seeing it unfold and stuff i think that's the that's the buzz so how do you make sure
01:36:17
how do you take that with you going forward well hopefully the record does well enough next time that i can ask for more tickets to things i mean that's
01:36:23
honestly like but i think that's like like it's just keeping those people close and like that's that's another
01:36:28
thing about coverage and going back to like i live for my paint i like i didn't have a platter whatever i lived with my
01:36:33
parents um because i was on twitter all the time i never knew the house so i moved out during cover and stuff and
01:36:39
it's like that realizing like like no matter what however things go no matter where you go and about what happens in your career i [ __ ] it's like it's always just going to come
01:36:50
back to that and those people and those and like where your roots are and stuff i don't think it's
01:36:57
it's it's just for me that's that's it kind of reaffirms the importance of all that stuff
01:37:03
covered like being there and being back and yeah i think that was for me the that that covered for me that was kind of what i got out of it and i think for me it's just
01:37:15
then taking that forward and trying at any time i can't share moments like that with people even if it means that i was doing an award to america flying some people out and doing
01:37:27
it and it's like [ __ ] it's like not worrying about like oh [ __ ] it's quite expensive
01:37:33
[ __ ] it fire them up because it's like it's going to make the moment it's going to make them yeah it's going to make it exactly yeah it's going to
01:37:39
make it [ __ ] what it is and it's going to [ __ ] that's interesting yeah do you have any goals looking really
01:37:44
into the future do you have any of those big bucket list style goals where you go [ __ ] how that would be i'd like to
01:37:49
write a song for a film okay that's kind of my only thing or something maybe not i i don't
01:37:56
know if i'm in fact that's the me i don't know i'm swag enough to have that sort of like thingy but um i don't
01:38:02
know man let anything anything would be good but like even if it's like i don't know something like indie film
01:38:07
whatever it doesn't have to be [ __ ] just like i quite like the idea of that's like a new challenge like writing
01:38:13
for i wrote for a game once that was quite fun i enjoyed that reckon you could do it for a podcast yeah yeah
01:38:18
[ __ ] sure i like it like come on battle in the voice i know you're not cheap [Laughter] but yeah so that for me that's kind of i don't really have any like in terms of
01:38:32
like in chat positions again i never really had that first time around and i think it's only you know
01:38:37
they're going to be disappointed in situations like that i think maybe yeah i don't really know i just can't again it's meant to be fun and i think me putting goals on things
01:38:50
the way my mind works would kind of strip that of some of the fun of it you know what i mean so yeah the film
01:38:56
thing would be good and i hope the people who really really loved the first album really really love
01:39:02
the second album doesn't have to be more like more people but the people who like really really
01:39:08
carry the album with them and still were [ __ ] like like still [ __ ] uh corrected 10 i'm
01:39:13
still [ __ ] playing it over and over again i hope that they love the second record and i hope that did
01:39:19
that and their eyes did it justice because in mind i have what about personal goals so like when i when i
01:39:26
look at my personal life i go okay there's a certain balance and structure to my personal life that i hope to achieve someday
01:39:32
um i think i still need to learn how to say no to things i think i'm i'm getting i have to cancel yours before and all the rest of it but i i'm quite bad at like i [ __ ] if i say no with that
01:39:44
that's an opportunity that just won't come back or whatever um i need to learn i'd like to be able to do that
01:39:49
um just for my own sort of personal life um i'd like to do some traveling that isn't
01:39:55
relating to work at some point i guess that's like taking time for myself i would like
01:40:01
that was kind of the plan over covert like well what what became covered i was going to go away and see all these
01:40:07
places and actually just take some time so i'd like to do that kids relationships i don't know i mean a relationship would obviously be nice not something i'm seeking at the moment wearing all these apps and
01:40:18
just for bdsm yeah just for videos just for my king chat yeah yeah just for my uh my kinks but uh i don't know i think
01:40:25
it's still nice to have like i like meeting new people when hanging out with new people and um
01:40:30
like uh shagging that i guess but but like just i think right now as well it's a bit unfair for the other person if i'm [ __ ] crossing their way and all the rest of they have to be quite
01:40:55
understanding human being um kids i think that's [ __ ] right now it's not in my plans at all yeah but you're so [ __ ] young yeah exactly like i'm 25 so it's
01:41:06
like so i see all my friends having some of my friends i've one pound's got four kids um might say just me and it's like
01:41:12
africa's maybe i don't know but i don't know speaking that much anymore it became a dad and i didn't want anything to do
01:41:18
that just reminds me of how like i'm getting older but um but yeah no like people are not getting married and having kids on that that's
01:41:24
just like not my my bag at all and again i don't have anything wrong with that people like doing their thing i suspect you'll meet
01:41:30
someone that's what happened with me where i was very much the type of person where i was like it's not fair on them i'm too busy my work comes first blah
01:41:36
blah blah blah and then i met someone i've seen this a lot with especially with some musicians that are like rock
01:41:41
stars like proper like you know rock stars drugs and they meet someone and they just slept yeah because a lot of them going
01:41:48
out and doing stuff like is boredom yeah that is a lot like i don't know i love a [ __ ] night out a lot of times you're
01:41:54
like you'll be sitting about thursday night wait wait tuesday [ __ ] night or something and you've got nothing on
01:42:00
wednesday and you're like [ __ ] i said should we just go get a few points and then you end up out and you're [ __ ] unimaginable so it's like
01:42:06
i i can totally see that like that that switch so i think nice because you're being young yeah totally 100
01:42:12
points that's a big thing as well as like remembering that i'm in my 20s is a big
01:42:18
thing for me because sometimes i'm a bit like [ __ ] let's just get this done and like don't not giving a [ __ ] like missing
01:42:24
birthdays and [ __ ] weddings and all this [ __ ] funerals but i think it's something that's important to remember
01:42:30
my age and like [ __ ] like like to actually take time for life rather than just slave it but slaving away at work
01:42:40
we we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the previous guest asks a question to the next guest you might have seen it before
01:42:46
um the previous guest asked you a question but i'm actually going to ask a follow-up question to this as well um
01:42:52
the question they left for you was not knowing who they left it for was kind of interesting question that they left a few but would you rather win the
01:42:58
premier league win an oscar or headline glastonbury i mean i think yeah that's great do you
01:43:05
know what actually did she that i do think there's something unreal about like see being out she's
01:43:12
scoring like a great goal like a great goal should do soccer aid yeah oh [ __ ] man i'm sure you're football but i'll be
01:43:18
like a manager i'll stand and say later in class but um like the sound of it that
01:43:23
i've always thought [ __ ] that'd be the best feeling ever like and that but i'm a celtic fan so like old formed i'll be like
01:43:29
scoring like a [ __ ] the winning goal 90th minute [ __ ] whatever like that must be unreal but obviously just
01:43:34
because i'm a musician i mean headlining glastonbury so i'm gonna so i i kind of that's why i knew it would be a bit of
01:43:40
an easier question for you so i'm gonna ask a question which we mentioned earlier on which was uh caused a bit of
01:43:46
eureka moment in your life which is how are you doing um i'm good i think um um definitely not uh
01:43:59
i think over the last last two or three weeks i've really come back to like being
01:44:04
myself i think i was gonna be in a bit of a not like a rock like a funny patch of the few weeks prior i think i was maybe going out a bit too much
01:44:16
um kind of feeling a bit dejected because because we're just like this well as i was talking about this long run up to
01:44:22
releasing this first single um thing about dejected about that and stuff and just overall just anxiety just like
01:44:29
really [ __ ] getting the better of me um but i think over the last like couple of weeks of kind of
01:44:36
coming at the other end of it so i feel pretty good i feel quite optimistic cautiously optimistic um
01:44:44
but yeah it's still still there exactly as i always do but i think yeah i'm i'm very
01:44:50
i'm happy at the minute which is good it's most i can ask for operating at 80 it's a [ __ ] class i can see the caution in the world which is just
01:45:03
but you know what i i couldn't be more like i don't sit here and gas people up or really [ __ ] them because i don't
01:45:08
really have to you can say other things i genuinely love your music thank you sure and uh i
01:45:14
and i really really mean that like i genuinely sincerely mean that i've watched your acoustic acoustic tracks on
01:45:19
you your covers on youtube of your own songs yeah i've watched all of it and i i couldn't be more excited to hear
01:45:26
whatever you do next and i'm not even even as a fan of yours i'm not even anticipating it's going to be the same
01:45:32
as last time i'm actually just so intrigued to hear another another lewis uh another when i say
01:45:39
another side just mean more lewis oh yeah more from you because you know your album was actually quite
01:45:45
i think because you have so many hits on hits on there it can feel a little bit short in hindsight yes you've played i've played the song so many times so i'm so excited for that and
01:45:55
um i also want to thank you generally because it's so refreshing for someone to be so unbelievably open and honest
01:46:01
with thing with some of the issues you talk about because you won't you won't know until you know after this
01:46:06
conversation comes out how many people you help by doing that when jack came on and talked about his
01:46:11
health anxiety jack jack said online he got thousands of messages a day of people thanking him because there's not
01:46:17
enough people talking about it what's the incentive to do so um there's there is an incentive but it doesn't
01:46:22
appear to be one it seems to be a greater cost so thank you for that because we need to have more of those conversations and it's like
01:46:28
especially about therapy and being a man and being open about your feelings and thank you for doing this it's a huge honor
01:46:34
honestly thank you so much for having us it's honestly so refreshing to actually have a [ __ ] on conversation and have conversations
01:46:40
about stuff because no one has ever asked me the questions that you've asked me today so it's good to actually
01:46:46
talk i feel later great quick one we have a brand new sponsor on this podcast which i'm very excited to tell you about they're a brand called blue jeans by verizon and they are a
01:46:59
video conferencing and collaboration tool that has changed the game for our team so i'm so glad to be working with
01:47:04
them because as you know one of the most important things for me is when we have a sponsor it is part of my world it is
01:47:10
part of my life it is part of my companies as someone who's on calls pretty much 80 of the day building my
01:47:16
businesses and speaking to my teams all over the world it's the guaranteed security that differentiates blue jeans
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from all of the other options that are out there in terms of video conferencing their enterprise grade security means
01:47:28
you can protect your organization from malicious attacks and establish real trust with everyone that joins your
01:47:34
meeting and that is something there are so many things that make sense and make blue jeans um a better option than the sort of competitors out there and i'll be talking about all of those aspects
01:47:46
those features and the reasons why i use blue jeans in the coming episodes if you want to check it out you can head to
01:47:51
www.bluejeans.com to learn more my girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when i was having a
01:47:56
shower and she said to me that she tried the heel protein shake which lives on my fridge over there and she said it's amazing low calories you get your 20 odd
01:48:04
grams of protein you get your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's nutritionally complete in the protein space there's lots of things but it's
01:48:10
hard to find something that is nice especially when consumed just with water and that is nutritionally complete and
01:48:16
that has about 100 calories in total while also giving you your 20 grams of protein
01:48:22
if you haven't tried the cure protein product do give it a try the salted caramel one if you put some ice cubes in
01:48:29
it and you put it in a blender and you try it is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market just mixed with water it's been a game changer for me because i'm trying to drop my calorie
01:48:40
intake and i'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet so this is where heel fits in my life thank you for
01:48:45
making a product that i actually like the salted caramel is my favorite i've got the banana one here which is the one my girlfriend likes but for me salted
01:48:52
caramel is the one [Music] you