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we are absolutely not alone in universe and I know these things are real because I was asked to investigate UFO
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incursions into controlled us airspace by the Pentagon these videos here there's no question what you're seeing
00:00:10
and there's more videos like this that you've been exposed to oh yeah but they're classified because there's a lot of people that don't want us talking
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about this should we be worried about this Luis alzando is a respected intelligence officer and former head of
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the pentagon's advanced Aerospace threat identification program where he led efforts to investigate UFO sightings and
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unidentified aerial phenomena there were real things that we were encountering over controlled us airspace by an
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unknown technology that frankly could outperform anything that we had in our inventory and there was a big national
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security issue because there's potential for these things to be interfering with their nuclear equities there evidence to suggest that they turned on the nuclear
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facilities in Russia right yeah that's a big deal but has there ever been anyone sent to jail because they've spoken
00:00:52
about this subject matter worse my life has been threatened many times taking huge risks but I think we deserve the
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truth so let's people say that they were abducted by aliens do you believe any of those reports I can tell you that we
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definitely have people that are now on US Government medical disability because they were involved in a UFO encounter
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and then one of the rumors is that at Area 51 they found UFO materials I cannot comment what area 51 might or
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might not have all I can say is that the government is in possession of material that doesn't look like it's made by us do you have any theories as to why they
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might be visiting here oh gosh well where do I start you eventually resigned why I resigned in protest because
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this has always blown my mind a little bit 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribe to the
00:01:38
show so could I ask you for a favor before we start if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us the free simple way that you
00:01:44
can do just that is by hitting the Subscribe button and my commitment to you is if you do that then I'll do everything in my power me and my team to
00:01:51
make sure that this show is better for you every single week we'll listen to your feedback we'll find the guests that
00:01:56
you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do thank you so much hello Steve who are you wow it depends who you ask I think
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to some people I'm probably a a patriot to other people I'm a father and a husband and to other people I'm probably the
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devil what's your professional CV what does your professional resume say went to college went to the University of
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Miami I studied uh microbiology immunology and parasitology I consider myself a disciple of uh scientific method and scientific principles I then joined the army uh United States Army I went in as
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enlisted I had an opportunity to go in as an officer because of my education but uh the words of my father always
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rung in the back of my head and he said in order to be a leader you must first know what it means to follow and so I
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joined the army as an inlisted Soldier um spent some time on deployment to Korea spent lived a year in Asia um was
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in Military Intelligence and then I was recruited very shortly thereafter into a special program where I became a
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civilian special agent in Counter Intelligence running investigations um supervise investigations throughout Latin America
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South America Central America and then um spend the rest of my time after 9911 uh over in Afghanistan in the Middle East primarily dealing with uh terrorism
00:03:30
issues uh running operations against hezb and and Isis and other other organizations and then um after probably several years of that my wife got very
00:03:41
tired of it missed too many birthdays missed too many uh holidays and she said you really need to come back and more importantly I'm afraid the next time you leave you may not come back uh we we're
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losing some people over there quite a bit and so I listened to my wife I came back took a supervisory job ran uh in
00:03:59
investigations worldwide um terrorism investigations and then from there I went to several other three-letter agencies I worked for the NC National Counter Intelligence executive I worked
00:04:10
for the dni the Director of National Intelligence and uh it was in 200 shortly thereafter um that I was asked to be part of a very interesting program in the
00:04:21
Pentagon um what my CV is I'm probably uh a jack of all trades but an expert in nothing I've done a lot of things mostly National Security crimes terrorism Espionage um some counter Gilla
00:04:33
operations counternarcotics uh counter Insurgency uh missions you said in 200 sort of 8 2009 you were asked to come back to the Pentagon to work on a particular project what project was that
00:04:46
so well it wasn't the one that wound up being the project everybody knows me for so uh in 2008 they asked me to run a
00:04:55
program to help integrate National level intelligence to with law enforcement local and state law enforcement agencies now why is that important because and then kind of leads to the next thing
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after 9911 people think here 9911 was was caused by by unfortunately some terrorists doing some bad things that
00:05:17
was an effect that wasn't the cause the actual cause was us here in the United States not being able to share
00:05:24
information with ourselves very well we had pockets of information at the CIA pockets of information at the FBI
00:05:29
pockets of information at the Department of Defense but we weren't sharing it with each other and thereby there was an
00:05:35
information gap an intelligence Gap and the folks 911 were able to do what they did
00:05:41
unfortunately so we learned that Lesson by trying to create um better integration so how do you take super secret information and get it down to a
00:05:52
level that can be consumed and usable without compromising sources of methods so that was the problem I was asked to
00:05:57
come back and fix it was shortly thereafter is when I was visited by some individuals and had some
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conversations with some other individuals about a program that I had no idea was that was I was ongoing but it was and it was a program involving
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the investigation the government's investigation into UAP or in the vernacular you might call them
00:06:20
UFOs who approached you so there were two individuals one of them I can talk about the other one is identities
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protected it's a gentleman named Jay Stratton uh who at the time was another intelligence official like me and another one of his colleagues and they came to me and they started asking me
00:06:36
questions they had a blue badge so I I knew that they were cleared they had the same security clearance I had we all worked in skips and it's not uncommon
00:06:43
when you need expertise in a particular portfolio or Mission that you you Outsource you find the right people to
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do this right job and so I was told they were looking for somebody to run Counter Intelligence and security for this
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capability that they had they didn't tell me what the capability was um and I was a Counter Intelligence and
00:07:02
security guy who was an expert in it so after several conversations um a bit of a dance if you will you know kind of
00:07:08
like trying to figure each other out they arranged for me to have a meeting with a individual and I met uh the what
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I would consider is the Premier rocket scientist for the United States government now when I say rocket
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scientist I mean literally a rocket scientist this is a gentleman who can tell you the fuel consumption rate of a first stage solid rocket motor booster
00:07:32
he can tell you the the orbital velocity of a murv vehicle multiple re-entry vehicle coming in from low or orbit I
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mean the best of the best of the best he was running a program and I still didn't
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know what the program was but he said look you know we've been doing it we've been given a lot of money to do it right and we're looking for somebody with me
00:07:50
with your skill sets and his name was Dr James laty and the epitome of a rocket scientist and at the end of the conversation I remember him looking at me over his glasses and he said to me
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what do you think about UFOs and so I thought for a moment and I said to him I said I sir I don't and he
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said well what do you mean you don't believe in UFOs I said no I I didn't say that you asked me what do I think of
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them and my response was I don't because I don't think about them I I'm too busy
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chasing bad guys and trying to fix problems for the government I never really had the luxury to think about them and he said to me okay that's fair
00:08:29
fair enough but let me just warn you um don't let your analytic bias get the best of you because you may learn things here that will challenge any preconceived notion or narrative that
00:08:41
you have about the topic and so I left that meeting thinking to myself is this some sort of psychological evaluation was that a serious question you know
00:08:53
or and it was very soon thereafter that I learned the reality that the United States government was absolutely
00:09:00
invested in a UFO investigative program and more importantly that it was legitimate like it was real there were real things that we were encountering over controlled us airspace over
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sensitive military installations um by an unknown technology that frankly could outperform anything that we had in our
00:09:21
inventory so that was my uh that was my introduction to now what is known as atip my focus was specifically more on the nuts and bolts investigations of these UAP incursions into controlled us
00:09:33
airspace encounters by military aircraft of these things um we weren't really focused on civilian information right we this wasn't like a grandma seeing some lights in the backyard these were these
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were well to lack of better term Close Encounters by trained military Pilots trained
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observers by the way who could recognize a silhouette between an S Su 22 a MIG 25
00:09:59
and an F16 from 10 miles away and make a split second decision is a friend or Foe and what these Pilots were encountering were also being backed up by by gun camera footage and and Fleer
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footage forward-looking infrared footage and oh by the way that was being further backed up by radar data Airborne data
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Airborne radar data and also groundbased radar data and seab based radar data how'd you go from the project you were
00:10:24
working on into a tip because that was the first sort of meeting right that was like an introductory conversation so
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there were several meetings before that where they were trying to vet me see if I had I guess the right background of
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skill sets it wasn't until that meeting with Jim laty that the word UFO was used
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um and how did I how did I go about that he's the one who made the decision it was his program I had nothing to do with
00:10:48
it I just you know yeah I'll do it I didn't even know what I was signing up for until after my meeting with him so did he say to you okay well we'd like
00:10:53
you to work on this program this AIT program and the acronym there stands for advanced error space threat identification program correct um and
00:11:01
eventually you became the director of that program yeah so it there was a there was a natural evolution of it um
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initially I was just they were brought in to provide Counter Intelligence and security uh expertise um but as that
00:11:12
program alsap faded away the the necessity and urgency of some of these incursions were were was getting to a
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desperate Crescendo it was getting really there was a lot of these incursions happening there was a big
00:11:24
national security issue that that we were all recognizing and there were elements in the government that were
00:11:30
trying to kill the effort um and not for reasons you might think believe it or not it's completely different um and so
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the decision was made to bring it up to the Pentagon up to where I was take it out of DIA defense intelligence agency
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and with the authorities I had I was the director of national program special management staff and so that was my job
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um I ran special access programs for for the White House and for the National Security Council and uh we uh we put the
00:11:59
program under that uh keeping it out of the the prying eyes of some of the folks that previously were trying to kill the
00:12:04
program so this program Advanced AOS space threat identification program was really focused on um
00:12:11
investigating reports and incidents of uaps or UFOs um in military environments so if there was a UFO UAP in a I don't know in a military base then this
00:12:27
project would investigate what that was is that is correct that's correct so it was only military focused um it wasn't
00:12:33
interested in civilian data by the time we were running it at the Pentagon it was really looking at for example
00:12:39
nuclear carrier strike groups that were encountering these things all the time it would be for example an Air Force
00:12:44
Base or a navy base or uh there was a special operations unit on a particular Patrol and if they happen to encounter a UAP those type of reports and I also
00:12:55
want to emphasize here we weren't looking for UFOs you know we were we were always coming into a situation with
00:13:02
the understanding that there's some sort of prosaic there's a prosaic answer to what
00:13:07
this is right it actually wasn't a UFO it was a drone a test fire of a missile it was a drone it was a balloon it was
00:13:13
whatever whatever because there are certain signatures and profiles that you can look very quickly and determine oh that's just conventional
00:13:20
technology but there was a guideline that we use that helped us understand when something really was anomalous when we're really we're talking about it's not our technology and whatever
00:13:31
that is it's probably not adversarial or foreign technology so now we're getting into the real world of UAP that that's
00:13:38
that's anomalous what's UAP unidentified anomalous phenomenon so let me if I can
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for let me backtrack a little bit for years and years and years the term UFO unidentified flying object was used um
00:13:52
there were several reasons but later on the term was changed to UAP and it stood for unidentified aerial phenomenon and
00:13:59
that's probably in the last year year and a half you're starting to see yet another definition of UAP unidentified
00:14:05
anomalous phenomenon and there's a reason for that happy to explain if you want but um the decision was made to
00:14:11
change from UFO to UAP I read that it was because a lot of the sort of military personnels stopped reporting
00:14:18
their sightings because there was a stigma associated with the Tam UFO correct so it's two two reasons uh there
00:14:24
is stigma and taboo associated with the term because the moment you say UFO people think tin foil hats and you crazy
00:14:31
yeah Elvis on the mothership and you know nonsense like that um but the reality is is that this this was a real
00:14:37
issue a national security issue for our nation and other nations too by the way but also the term UFO isn't really
00:14:42
accurate anymore so what do I mean by that well unidentified flying object what is flying well flying means you have four fundamental forces you have thrust lift drag and weight and when you
00:14:55
understand that you can create wings and create lift and that is the definition of flying right these things didn't have
00:15:02
wings they didn't have Rudders elevators control surfaces lons cockpits um and yet somehow they were able to remain a loft in our atmosphere so they weren't flying technically so the name was
00:15:15
changed to anomalous uh I'm sorry unidentified aerial phenomena because they were being seen in the air but then
00:15:20
they realized you know what they're also being seen underwater they're also being seen in high altitude and possibly low
00:15:25
earth orbit so to say that their aerial isn't even accurate either so then they said okay it's unidentified anomalous
00:15:31
phenomenon to cover all the separate domains or environments that these things are being encountered in before
00:15:38
you had the meeting regarding this project at the Pentagon what did you believe about uaps
00:15:43
and UFOs I didn't I was never interested even in science fiction as a kid did you believe they were if I had asked you
00:15:49
there if I'd come up to you and said Are UFOs real and I say UFOs because that's the sort of sure social term but what
00:15:57
would you have said probably not I mean I would have said literally probably not I wouldn't say
00:16:03
for sure not because I didn't know what about now oh yeah kidding me I mean yeah
00:16:10
it's these are well I mean don't take my word for it our government's already said it I mean we you have a former Director of National Intelligence
00:16:17
telling the world yeah these these things are real whatever they are you have a former director of CIA you have a former president of the United States um
00:16:24
and we've known for a long time they're real and by the way it's not just our country there's other countries that are very forthcoming um there's countries in
00:16:31
South America that have been dealing with this for a long time Japan just entered into a uh bilateral information
00:16:37
sharing agreement with our country for the express purposes of sharing UAP information and data China's interested
00:16:43
Russia's interested in this um several European countries have a fairly robust capability and had have a lot of information on this was there a moment when your belief changed was there a
00:16:53
moment that you can remember where you thought you know what what I thought about uaps
00:16:59
was wrong sure um and what I often tell people there's there's there's two types
00:17:05
of individuals the way that we process this information in one category you have people that will sit there and say
00:17:12
I had this Epiphany this revelatory moment where all of us sudden it's like oh my God they're real right are you
00:17:17
kidding me and then there's another group of people which I probably fall into that second category the latter
00:17:23
category which is more of a slow progression and realization of what we're dealing with is not a conventional technology it's not our technology it's
00:17:36
it's something else um at some point the preponderance of evidence is so overwhelming let me give you an example I am I spent my life in in
00:17:52
investigations terrorists spies whatever and um I've always been uh what I consider just the fax m' kind of guy very very data driven
00:18:03
I don't really care about Inu windows and suppositions and your opinion very much I care about what the data says
00:18:08
right what does it what does the data suggest and in this case this particular case you have eyewitness testimony you
00:18:17
have it backed up by gun camera footage you have it backed up by Fleer footage you have it backed up by radar information you've got five six
00:18:24
sometimes seven pieces of cooperating sensor data that's all reporting the same event at the same time at the same
00:18:31
place under the same circumstances now if I was in a court of law and I was presenting this as evidence we are well beyond Reasonable Doubt the jury would have no choice but to convict because
00:18:44
the evidence is so the same collection sensor Suite that we use to prosecute and win a war and forgive the vernacular but literally drop Warheads on foreheads is the same information the same same
00:18:55
systems we're using to collect the data on the anomalous Vehicles were seeing um and
00:19:02
so you know I know it's a very uncomfortable conversation to have I'm not saying it's not what I'm saying is that we have to deal with this and it's not me just telling you that this is our government
00:19:14
we know we've already we have laws now on the books because this topic is now so serious we have whistleblowers ready
00:19:21
to come out and testify before the American people because this is so serious we have set up an organization
00:19:27
specifically it's sole purpose is to investigate UAP because this topic is so serious so this is not a you know flight of fancy here we're we're investing
00:19:39
millions of dollars taxpayer dollars to try to figure this out and interestingly enough I think when the investigative
00:19:46
body first came was was realized was was created there was this hope that in the
00:19:51
first report they said oh there's 143 incidents that remain uh unidentified but we're going to whittle them away what happen the next time they had a report there was now 300 and what
00:20:01
happened after that now 800 the numbers going up not down that remain unresolved
00:20:07
and so um you know we've we we've got to have this uncomfortable conversation with ourselves you eventually left I did um your that project but also more broadly
00:20:19
you you resigned uh from working with the Pentagon in the role that you were working with them why did you resign I
00:20:25
resign because that's what you do when you can't fix a problem in internally my concern was that we were spending time
00:20:33
and money on an issue that leadership didn't want to know about that leadership didn't want to inform the boss the then Secretary of
00:20:44
Defense General Jim Mattis um the details about what was going on and there's reasons for that and we can certainly get into that if you want I understand them I don't necessarily agree with them but I
00:20:55
understand them but at least here in in our country when you can't fix a problem you don't
00:21:01
stay and make it worse you leave you resign and then if you still want to do something you do it from outside but you
00:21:07
don't create problems inside and um it's not that uncommon is it because if you look just a year later after I left
00:21:13
Secretary of Defense himself resigned right so I resigned in protest but not out of disloyalty I resigned because of my loyalty to this country and to this
00:21:24
government and what is that protest Sor just to be clear the pro is that we weren't able to get the information and the help we needed with with this issue
00:21:36
up to the right level of people they were happy with us doing it but they said don't tell the boss well wait a minute the boss needs to know we're
00:21:42
having almost a midair collision with our fighter pilots we have captains and Admirals of navy ships asking us what do
00:21:49
we do about these things like there's an email said hey Lou we can't keep these guys below deck forever what do you want
00:21:55
me to do they're all over the ship you know so a decision has to be made what are we going to do about it and that
00:22:01
decision has to be made by the top guy the Secretary of Defense and for whatever reason the upper echelons of
00:22:08
leadership didn't want to tell the boss and and and we weren't getting on guidance what to do about it now keeping
00:22:13
in mind these things are coming over our sensitive military installations as well and there's potential for these things
00:22:19
to be interfering with our nuclear equities that's a big deal and nobody wants to have the conversation now wait
00:22:25
a minute let's let's put this on the backdrop of of other National Security issues right like terrorism if you go to
00:22:31
any airport in the United States today or any train station you always hear over the announcements if if you see something suspicious say something
00:22:38
report it well that wasn't the case with these things in fact people were told not to report yes if you saw a UFO and you saw it over a sent of military installation don't report it because
00:22:48
they'll think you're crazy and that is dangerous that is a dangerous mindset because if these things had a Russian
00:22:55
star on the tail or a North Korean tail number this would be huge but because these things didn't have a tale at all and didn't have any obvious signs of repulsion or whatnot it was cricket
00:23:06
people would know about it it was a worst kept secret people like yeah we see them all the time but we don't want to report it well you have to report it
00:23:12
well there's no reporting mechanism okay well let's create one well we can't create one because we need permission to do it and this person needs to be
00:23:17
briefed up meanwhile you're being told no you can't you can't you can't you can't why wouldn't they want to report
00:23:23
this information why wouldn't they want the public to know why wouldn't they want the boss to know well I think it's
00:23:28
a stigma taboo well there's several reasons but I think superficially stigma taboo no one wants to be known as that
00:23:34
UFO guy or gal I I get it you know especially if you're a pilot because historically you'd be taken off flight
00:23:39
status you you know put behind a desk and you'd fly a desk the rest of your career because people think you're mentally unstable could affect your
00:23:45
security clearance I mean there's all sorts of things that can happen um and so people were being being reinforced
00:23:53
not to report this information even civilian Pilots today if you talk to them they'll tell you quietly yeah you
00:23:58
know we see things in the sky but we're not going to report anything because I need a job you know what did you see oh
00:24:04
my what day I mean I videos reports photographs I mean we have there's videos that are so compelling in high definition that there's no question what you're seeing it's not our technology
00:24:17
it's not our technology and the capabilities are beyond anything we can do I mean I can I'm happy to explain some of those capabilities you like but
00:24:23
but you know when you when you look at this from a rational perspective you only come to one outcome
00:24:29
there only one can be the other one is so remotely possible that the mental gymnastics to get to that and we can go
00:24:35
into that in a minute it's it's it's absurd and so um let's go into a little bit what make these things unique okay
00:24:43
because planes fly and you a in the air so that doesn't make them unique and you know things go fast and whatnot so you
00:24:49
have to in intelligence if you want to filter out data and and and only focus on
00:24:57
certain data have to create parameters so we realized early on in the government that these things had five
00:25:03
parameters five observables that made them Stand Out away from everything else and so the first one was instantaneous acceleration so what is acceleration it is the change of velocity right it is
00:25:16
the ability to change your velocity very quickly and as a result as a consequence there are inertial forces that are
00:25:23
experienced so for us human beings we express those inertial forces as G forces so the force of gravity is
00:25:29
pulling on us equally at 9.8 meters per second per second and that's that's that's experienced as
00:25:35
1G a human being can withstand up to nine G's for a very short period of time before you start having medical consequences right you have things like blackouts and red outs and ultimately
00:25:47
death to compare that to let's say standard technology um one of our most highly maneuverable aircraft M maneuverable aircraft let me emphasize man is an older aircraft it's called the
00:25:58
General Dynamics F16 built by General Dynamics it's the F-16 um and that at an unclassified level can pull about 17 G's before you start having structural failure meaning Wings snap off right the
00:26:10
plane begins to disintegrate while you're flying it what we are seeing are objects that are performing in excesses
00:26:16
of 2,000 and 3,000 G forces okay well beyond the healthy limitations of anything biological to withstand and certainly from A Material Science
00:26:27
perspective more than more than we have there's an advanced technology here the second
00:26:34
observable is Hypersonic velocity so what is Hypersonic hypersonics are those speeds in excess of mach five or above
00:26:42
what's a mock it's the speed of sound roughly 760 some miles an hour at sea level so really fast now do we have technology that can do hypers sure we do
00:26:52
absolutely we have a one of the best examples is a locked yf12a SR71 otherwise known as as a blackbird it can
00:27:00
get to about Mach 5 which is really fast but at that speed if the SR71 wants to take a right-hand turn takes roughly half the state of Ohio to execute that
00:27:11
maneuver we are seeing things not doing Mach 5 we are seeing things doing an excess of 10,000 13,000 miles an hour
00:27:20
and executing immediate right-hand turns and even 180s right so that is another observable that is significantly above and beyond anything we have another observable it's a bit of an
00:27:32
oxymoron but it's called Low observability meaning you'll hear from the pilots Lou I was there I saw it but
00:27:39
I can't describe it didn't have wings didn't have Rudder A Tail anything no rivets nothing uh and then also on the radar you will get these nonsensical
00:27:50
returns these returns like uh it's there's some sort of active jamming or spoofing going on uh with within the
00:27:57
radar system so low observability now do we have low observable Vehicles sure for example the B2 bomber and the valkyrie
00:28:04
these are stealth Vehicles well this is a little more than that because it's actually also with the human eye very
00:28:10
hard to discern the fourth observable is something called trans medium or multi multim medium travel so that means the ability to operate in multiple domains or more specifically multiple
00:28:24
environments now once again do we have multi-domain Vehicles absolutely a c plane is a perfect example of a multim medium vehicle it can fly and it can
00:28:35
float but let's face it a c plane is neither a really good airplane or a good boat and why because there are design compromises that have to be make in performance and design in order for it
00:28:47
to operate in multiple domains and that's true with just about every technology we have the more domains we
00:28:53
want something to operate in the more sacrifices we have to make that's why a submarine looks like a submarine because
00:28:58
it's designed to be underwater and a plane looks like a plane and a rocket looks like a rocket um these things can
00:29:05
operate in multiple different domains they can operate in air underwater and possibly even space but they don't have
00:29:11
that performance and design sacrifice that we have to do with our technology so is it like a when you get this job do you get to see like a folder on a
00:29:22
computer like I'm trying to understand what access you you you're given these things I mean you you are you're seeing the investigations that were done uh previously by other members of UAP
00:29:35
you're seeing video you're seeing photographs you're seeing the historical reports and are these classified oh
00:29:40
absolutely very okay so so the general public can't see these kinds of things no and they haven't been published
00:29:46
correct they have not been public made publicly available they are highly classified okay so it's videos it's
00:29:52
photos it's various accounts it's correct you know a lot of people talk about Area 51 when they talk about UFOs
00:29:57
and such such MH I think one of the sort of rumors is that at era 51 they've found and um retained UFO materials spacecraft Etc
00:30:11
that they've studied to understand the technology so that they can introduce it to the US military is there any truth in
00:30:17
that you know the the US government invests a lot of money in research they have a lot of Test Facilities where we want to be able to test things outside
00:30:23
the prying eyes of um of our enemies and so we we we we create these test ranges
00:30:29
for that purpose we do all sorts of things at those test ranges um you know I I cannot comment on on what area 51 might or might not have um I would not
00:30:40
be authorized to to talk about that um all I can say is what is in the public domain which people already know that is
00:30:46
a it's a sensitive test facility where where we we experiment with with things because there was a a gentleman I think from that worked near Area 51 that's talked a little bit about this publicly
00:30:58
Bob Lazar mhm I actually didn't know anything about Bob Lazar until about two hours ago so what is exactly is it that Bob
00:31:06
Lazar is claiming well to be fair you'd probably have to ask Bob I I don't know Mr Lazar I've never met him I've never
00:31:12
spoken to him um his claims were that he worked at a particular facility and he had access to uh and privy to one of the
00:31:20
recovered vehicles um crash retrievals uh that was uh allegedly performed by the United States uh and Acquired and and brought there um that is what is in
00:31:32
the public domain um I I I cannot and will not comment on on Bob Lazar because I don't know him so when you say you can't comment on something and as it relates to something that's classified
00:31:42
um is have you had to go through some process you there's a book in front of me called imminent which is the book you've written it says inside the
00:31:49
pentagon's hunt for UFOs what is the process in when you're writing books like this to get information cleared so
00:31:55
that you can share it it's like birthing an elephant right I can only imagine if I was ever woman and had to had to give
00:32:01
birth um because they probably don't want you talking about these things there's a lot of people that don't want
00:32:08
us talking about this um but there's also a lot that do um so you go through a process it's called doser in the US
00:32:15
government we love our acronyms it stand for Department of Defense office of pre-publication and Security review as a
00:32:22
former Defense official if I want to write anything it has to go through a review process to make sure it's not
00:32:28
classified and I can talk about it that book went through an exhaustive almost one-year process through the government
00:32:35
before they allowed me to publish it and even then they redacted portions of it if you look in there you will see great
00:32:41
out portions because I wanted Americans to see what some people don't need to see and so those redactions are there by the government um and it is it is a very
00:32:53
exhaustive process but it's important because that's what keeps us Le legal that's what keeps people like me not
00:33:00
going to jail because you I I go through the proper procedures I'm I'm not a leaker I have never leak to classified
00:33:06
information I will never discuss classified information an unauthorized disclosure is something that that should be avoided at all times um I'm like I
00:33:14
said I'm a patriot I'm loyal to my country I'm not disloyal so there's a right way and a wrong way to do things
00:33:19
so if you want to write a book uh and you want to talk about things you're not sure you can talk about you go through
00:33:24
this doser process and that's exactly what I did and that's how that book was able to be published otherwise right now
00:33:32
it would probably be in jail is there a single most compelling piece of evidence that you were witness
00:33:37
to as it relates to your belief in UFOs and uaps they were they were all significant there wasn't one that said oh that's it because they were all compelling in their own way whether you can go back to the USS nits incident in
00:33:50
2004 or the Roosevelt incidents in 2014 and 2015 there was so much data every time
00:33:57
you think think you had one that was great another one would come in that was even better um so I mean you've put one
00:34:02
on the front cover of this book there right yeah what is this incident on the front cover of your book that is known as the gimbal incident that is a video
00:34:12
that was taken by uh fa and uh you can hear the exacerbation if you listen to the actual video you can hear the pilots um trying to discuss what it is and then
00:34:23
you also hear on it the discussion of there's a whole Fleet of them look at the Asa and oh by the way it's going 120 knots
00:34:30
Against the Wind at roughly 20,000 ft so it's not a balloon and you begin to see this this this vehicle orientate itself
00:34:37
in a 90 Dee Angle now if this was a plane like here your wings if you go in a 90 Dee angle you lose altitude right
00:34:44
because that's how the principles of lift work that's not the case there I think this is the video
00:34:50
yep a drone bro there's a whole Fleet of them look on the my gosh they're all going against the wind the wind's 12
00:35:04
West dud that's not our LS though is it it's well it's rotating and that was shot by two US
00:35:20
sort of fighter pilots there's a lot more of those out there and a lot clearer too but they're
00:35:26
classified so there's more videos like this that you've been exposed to oh yeah but but they won but they won't release
00:35:32
them they will not release them why because of of sources of methods because they remain classified because how they
00:35:38
were taken where they were taken under what circumstances What technological capabilities were used to collect the
00:35:44
information the US government wants to keep out of its out of the hands of its adversaries what our true capabilities
00:35:51
are so let's say you're flying a mission over a denied area and you don't want the enemy to know that you're over it
00:35:56
right the last thing you want to do is release a video where you can look and say oh we're in this location and now the enemy knows or we have this
00:36:03
capability or we can see this this good these are the Technologies we have these
00:36:08
videos here ironically are probably some of the least compelling videos now people say oh these are incredible but these are the ones that were
00:36:13
unclassified that could be released the other one some of these are so clear the
00:36:19
problem is is how they were taken the collection capabilities that were used to take them where they were taken under what circumstances the metadata in the
00:36:25
video all that is a consider ation okay and do do the US government in the Pentagon generally want people to believe that UFOs U uaps exist or not I think it's both I
00:36:41
think up until recently nobody wanted to have this conversation the problem is the government backed itself up after 70 years of denial into a corner and it it it has to figure a way out there are
00:36:53
some elements now that want the conversation to occur and so that's why you see convers getting engaged why the creation you have Arrow um but there are
00:37:00
still elements unfortunately in the in the Pentagon that don't want this conversation to occur and they will continue doing what they can to
00:37:06
discredit individuals and and launch this campaign against them uh one of my colleagues David grou who was a decorated uh Air Force officer and a
00:37:16
senior intelligence official the moment he broke Rank and went public about this topic within 24 hours uh they released
00:37:24
his medical records trying to discredit him and they did it illegally um so there are people there that
00:37:29
definitely don't want this conversation to occur why well there's a lot of reasons why um you know back
00:37:36
historically great question let's um can I unpack that a little bit yeah do you mind that okay
00:37:42
so let's start really at the hills of World War II you have These Foo Fighters that are being observed by Allied Pilots um these these these luminous balls that would follow them into combat areas and
00:37:55
then after um particularly as we started developing the atomic weapons we started releasing a lot of UFOs over our
00:38:01
controlled military airspace and over our sent of military installations our research facilities and so at the time
00:38:07
you have this mindset you have height of the Cold War United States versus Soviet
00:38:13
Union and by the way they had nukes and so did we right so you've got a real Potential Threat over there and then
00:38:18
you've got these other things over here so as as a general in the Pentagon say look I know these things are real but
00:38:24
they're not showing any over hostilities meanwhile we've got this issue over here this real threat called Soviet Union
00:38:30
let's focus on this threat and then we'll worry about this other stuff later the other part of that is the the mindset of look um it's really
00:38:40
uncomfortable as a government to have a conversation with its people about a problem that there's no solution for
00:38:47
right we can see what they do but there's not a damn thing we can do about it we we we can't stop what they're
00:38:52
doing so do you really want to have a conversation with the American people and admit a problem for which we don't
00:38:58
have a solution for it that governments are solution focused and that is not a great spot to be in right and it's by the way not the first time this has happened let's look at the U2 for example spy plane when we first built
00:39:11
that the CIA commissioned it through locked Martin Skunk Works and we were flying that vehicle in contravention to
00:39:18
a standing treaty we had with Russia that we would not fly Rec man reconnaissance missions over Russia
00:39:24
Mainland Russia we were but we built this plane to fly so fast so high we thought they couldn't detect us right
00:39:30
and for a while we thought they couldn't because we went unchallenged until the Russians were able to develop the
00:39:36
surface to air missile sa2 missile and successfully shoot one down and then and only then did they admit to the world we've been tracking these things since day one the reason why they didn't talk
00:39:47
about it is because they didn't have a means to shoot it down so why admit a problem for which there's no solution
00:39:53
until you have a solution so that's another mindset in a pentagon and then you had several studies done that were
00:39:58
commissioned by the US government in the past that ask the question if we were to be honest and truthful about disclosure
00:40:05
about we're not alone in University things are real what would the consequences be and these studies came
00:40:11
back unanimously said you can't do it the American people are not ready to have this conversation it'll cause civil
00:40:17
Discord and it'll cause it'll upset the population and people will lose faith in their religions and the economy May
00:40:23
crash you can't do it and so the decision was made okay we're not going to do it in fact we're going to actively suppress this information we're going to
00:40:29
stigmatize the heck out of it so bad that no one will ever want to even mention the word UFO and it was very
00:40:35
successful that that that campaign to stigmatize this topic was so successful in fact that even now it's hard to unwind the tape and have the conversation and so there in lies part
00:40:48
of the problem why doesn't the government parts of the government want to have this conversation then you've got a legal issue which is probably
00:40:55
probably the biggest issue now you have elements in the government that were making unilateral decisions not to
00:41:02
inform Congress and not to inform the president of the United States right that's illegal there are oversight committees that have a designated need to know on all intelligence matters
00:41:14
especially when it comes to funding right we're spending billions of dollars on these projects you've got to inform Congress certain elements and certain
00:41:21
oversight committees like the Senate Sate committee on intelligence they weren't being briefed to this there's also this fear by some
00:41:27
people on the inside of the government that oh my gosh I used to work on a secret UFO program am I going to be in
00:41:33
trouble now because you know I we've been lying to Congress and so it's a little more complicated than than necessarily just saying oh well we want the truth be honest it's not that easy
00:41:45
to your knowledge has there ever been recovered um UAP or UFO materials what I can say what I've been allowed to say which is yes up until recently I wasn't even allowed to say that when did that change when that book got reviewed up
00:41:58
until that point I had signed documentation from the government saying I will never discuss that ever what happens if you did a jail oh yeah that's
00:42:06
why that book I had to go through the process because what I wrote in that book I am allowed to talk about I can't
00:42:11
go beyond that but at least I can talk about that and in the book I talk about yes that the government is in possession
00:42:17
of material exotic material that doesn't look like it's made by us has there ever been anyone sent to jail because they've
00:42:24
spoken about this subject matter worse worse and that that story has yet to be told yes there are people who have had faced uh extreme disciplinary actions
00:42:36
and and and potentially worse the death penalty I'm not going to elaborate right now um because there's some things happening to try to this is why Congress
00:42:47
is working hard for whistleblower protections because um we want people to feel safe to come out and have a
00:42:53
conversation and right now they don't feel overly safe um they've seen some of the tactics and
00:42:59
techniques that were applied to try to keep people quiet in the past um let me say this in general terms people say oh
00:43:05
well the government would never kill anybody to protect a secret try going to Area 51 and look at the signs on that
00:43:12
chain link fence where it says lethal Force authorized you cross that fence and they
00:43:18
can kill you dead Okay so the government can under certain extreme cases under certain extreme situations and conditions they can do whatever they need to do to protect National Security
00:43:29
and they will which department is that because I cannot go into that conversation unfortunately because people think of it as maybe the CIA or something but I I
00:43:40
can't I can't elaborate unfortunately you know because I I know very little about American uh
00:43:47
governmental departments and such but obviously most of the world knows about the like presidential assassinations and
00:43:52
things like that so and I've spoken to a few CIA agents and stuff like that on my podcast before but um I've never really
00:43:59
understood frankly who would who would be making such an order and how those things don't leak you know well you
00:44:07
know good question um look we we we've done it in the past other situ some pretty recently um you know let give you case and point and
00:44:19
this is not you know attacking anybody um we have uh droned use drones to leth kill people Americans an American citizen specifically and and
00:44:31
and person's child without due process in the US not in the US he was a US citizen oh uh he was suspected of being a terrorist and there's some other things there I'm not going to go in there but um we as American citizens are
00:44:45
are as American citizens we are afforded something called due process under the law of Peace um and meaning you get your
00:44:51
day in court no matter what and there have been Americans where that hasn't been the case um they didn't get a day
00:44:58
in court um someone made the decision to uh liquidate them um you know there are
00:45:04
examples of that happening you know there's another one with with uh rosenbergs the uh those who were accused
00:45:11
of selling uh the atomic secrets to the Russians actually giving it to them and uh if you know a little bit about what
00:45:17
happened with his wife um turns out that she was innocent what happened to his wife they hung her hung her and him for for for Espionage uh but because of
00:45:30
the information that we had at the time we was so sensitive we'd have to reveal a capability so unfortunately uh it looks like maybe
00:45:41
we may have may have done something that maybe we shouldn't have done um I wasn't around for that so I can't tell you
00:45:46
definitively what happened um I can only tell you what what what my understanding of it is I could absolutely be wrong and
00:45:52
I really hope I am but it turns out that you know there are ex examples where we
00:45:58
will take drastic measures to protect National Security so in writing this book and in talking about the subjects
00:46:05
you understand that there's some people that don't want you talking about these subjects oh yeah oh yeah so and you also
00:46:12
understand that punishment for talking about these subjects can range from jail or Worse y so are you not scared I
00:46:19
didn't say that I didn't say I wasn't scared I mean I'm taking huge risks I I but I've been my life has been been threatened many times and it's very concerning for me it's a reason why I
00:46:31
live in Wyoming and I'm heavily armed and have now six German Shepherds yeah I'm very cautious and careful but I'm
00:46:38
also understanding I also know the left and right limits of the law and I'm not going to break the law under any
00:46:43
circumstances I didn't this book isn't Elite I'm authorized to talk about that book because I went through the proper
00:46:49
processes of getting it reviewed whether they like it or not but yes I am absolutely worried you know this is why
00:46:56
I'm very careful when I say things because I don't want to I walk up to the line I will not step over the line I
00:47:01
will not violate my security oath and compromise National Security for disclosure and I don't think I have to I
00:47:07
think the proof is in the pudding the fact that it's been seven years and we've come this far in the conversation and I haven't gone to jail and I'm still
00:47:14
here to have the conversation I think is indicative of the fact that there is a right way and a wrong way to do it I understand people want disclosure they
00:47:21
want it now but I've told people before there's a difference between doing things right and doing things right now
00:47:27
they're different and we only get one chance to do this right and so hopefully we can have this conversation this
00:47:34
Collective conversation in a way where we don't have to be disruptive no one has to be threatened no one has to go to
00:47:39
jail no one has to lose their jobs or anything like that you mentioned presidents earlier on
00:47:45
do presidents of the United States know about UFOs some do some do not unfortunately there's a mindset by some people that think that politician Ians
00:47:57
and presidents are temporary hires they're here today gone in four years so why brief them up on something
00:48:03
especially if they have no military or intelligence background it's a risk so you know what don't brief them which
00:48:10
presidents do you think were aware of UFOs and this sort of these kinds of programs sure well we know for sure
00:48:16
there were several you know for sure for example Carter was but then how' you know what well because Carter was
00:48:22
briefed I I know somebody who actually worked with Carter to get information on this topic I won't say the person's name
00:48:28
the person's still alive so I don't have permission to talk about that but we know that for a fact and there's records of it but there's other presidents like
00:48:34
Bill Clinton who wasn't briefed but wanted to be briefed right and so um and again this this this is the Crux of the problem who's making the decision on what president gets briefed and what
00:48:45
doesn't that's that's nonsense President George Bush Senor was briefed when he was also the director of the CIA so he was very well aware of this topic but then there's other presidents that weren't and so this is again this is
00:48:58
this is highlighting the very problem that I have who's making the decision to choose who gets briefed and who doesn't
00:49:04
what about Obama and Trump I'm I can't answer for them um Obama has uh recently stated for the record that these UAP are a national security issue not a threat but an issue that there's something
00:49:17
there that these are real whatever they are whatever it is President Trump recently former president Trump said A
00:49:23
week and a half ago for the record when asked that he would be willing to release the UFO files and that he wanted
00:49:28
to do it in the past but he faced Fierce resistance now think about that statement for a minute who the hell is
00:49:35
giving him resistance to releasing UFO files when you're the President right that is that is a very significant
00:49:42
statement that is what needs to be fixed if the president himself can't get or herself can't get a briefing who in the
00:49:49
hell has the authority to make that decision nobody what is that Fierce resistance that Trump's talking about I
00:49:56
don't know you'd have to ask Trump what do you think it is uh I think there is a huge amount of
00:50:02
influence by the military-industrial complex and they they it it is an enormous business always has been
00:50:11
um it's it's it's it's huge it is probably the world's largest business globally and why wouldn't the military industrial complex want those files to be released well because they have to
00:50:23
admit that they part of the part of the programs some of these folks you know have had been a lot of their successes
00:50:31
is being able to work super secret programs for the US government and maybe there's technology that they don't want
00:50:36
release maybe there's capabilities that we have that we don't want to tell our adversaries and there's a lot of reasons for it which are understand some of them
00:50:42
are actually legitimate I can understand I don't agree with but I can understand how much do you think the average person
00:50:47
on the street knows about what goes on in the Pentagon and behind the scenes of the government brother it's forget the government in Pentagon how many parents
00:50:58
they can tell you who's a quarterback of their favorite football team and it can tell you their stats but how many parents know who their kid sit sits next
00:51:06
to during lunch or in second period math class it government is I mean that's basic facts man we as humans most of us we suck we don't know anything and we're
00:51:19
so used to being force fed information by whatever Outlet dour we want to tune into you know if I'm a Liber I'll watch
00:51:27
this if I'm a conservative I'll watch that I I'll I'll go straight to my echo chamber and you know just hear what I
00:51:32
want to hear and have people tell me not only information that I that they think I need to know but even my opinion of
00:51:37
what what it should be about this is a much much bigger issue than just UFOs and UAP we as as as people have become extremely lazy and we we no longer are
00:51:53
willing to ask the hard questions we're not you were part of one program but you also referenced a second program called
00:52:00
The Legacy program what is the Legacy program it is the traditional L held effort by the US government to study UAP people think atip was the only program in ASAP before that there was there was
00:52:13
Blue Book and before that the Legacy program is the collaborative effort of individuals over the course of several decades that I've been looking into this topic for the US government and by the
00:52:26
US government and okay just doing similar things to what ATP did yes and and more robust and
00:52:32
much more well funded I wonder why they don't fund it as well these days uh there's a reason for that too that I I I I I would need permission to
00:52:44
talk about um there were some distractions in the early 2000s that lifted and shifted
00:52:52
resources away from from efforts to something else um you know probably could figure out what
00:52:58
those what that was but um there was an enormous resource drain and refocusing um in the early 2000s to
00:53:07
focus on something else and so I I heard you talk as well about this sort of different types of aliens per se because when we think of aliens we we reflect on movies that we've seen and
00:53:18
they have like the big heads and things like that and maybe they're like like white tall skinny with like the big arms
00:53:25
and the big leg leg and stuff like that is that what people in the Pentagon consider aliens to be what we see in
00:53:32
movies uh I I can't speak on behalf of other people I can only speak on behalf of me um I've been very very careful not
00:53:39
to to stereotype anybody or anything I think it's important we have to keep an open mind because when you say the word aliens you automatically presuming that these things are from outer space m they
00:53:51
might not be there's lots of different options it doesn't have to be from outer space what do you believe do you believe
00:53:57
they're amongst us well let's can I can I explore this with you this question okay so it's it's not a either or so in the beginning of our
00:54:07
conversation I told you I went to the University of Miami and I studied microbiology immunology and the study of parasites now if you go to some
00:54:14
anthropologists they will suggest to you that modern human beings homo sapien sapien has been around roughly between
00:54:20
100 to possibly 200,000 years so on a 24-hour clock right it it's only the last 2,000 years and it was the Greeks that proposed there were two fundamental
00:54:31
life forms on this planet and you were either a plant or you were an animal and human beings were an
00:54:37
animal and so the 24-hour clock you're prob talk maybe I don't know 10 minutes ago before midnight well it was 300 years ago during the Renaissance or the
00:54:48
days of Enlightenment uh that we discovered an entire new life form on this planet
00:54:54
that's been here all along and that that was that was neither plant nor animal it was the world of fungus and we Pat
00:55:01
ourselves on the shoulder and say hey we found a new life form in this 24-hour clock it's been
00:55:06
probably the last maybe 10 seconds last 120 years only that we discovered for the first
00:55:14
time the true dominant Alpha life form on this planet and in fact if you take all the biomass of every plant and all
00:55:22
the biomass of every animal and all the biomass of every fungus and added it all up to together it still will not equal
00:55:28
the biomass of this hidden yet dominant life form that's been on this planet all
00:55:34
along and it wasn't until we could have the technology to curve glass and look through a little tube and famously shout
00:55:40
the words little beasties little beasties did we discover the world of microorganisms okay the true dominant life form on this planet that's been here all along in fact it's inside of us
00:55:52
it makes us up it's pervasive everywhere and we just discovered it so when I say
00:55:59
to people you know my people oh you think from outer space they can be from outer space Inner Space or frankly the
00:56:05
space in between these things could be just as natural to our environment as we are maybe we're at the point now where technologically we can start interacting
00:56:12
maybe they're from under the ocean look less than 10% of the ocean floor has been mapped we know more about the
00:56:18
surface of the Moon than we do of our own oceans is it possible these things are just as natural to this planet as we
00:56:24
are possibly or is it possible these things are from somewhere else yes that's possible too so we have to keep
00:56:31
all options on the table until they're no longer on the table we live in an infinitely infinitely complex
00:56:41
Universe see if I can and I've I've often used this before to try to help people wrap their heads around around
00:56:48
this we perceive life through five fundamental five fundamental senses and if we can't touch it taste it hear it smell it Etc we can't interact with it we have no idea it's there where I live
00:57:00
out in Wyoming we have these beautiful night skies unoccluded night skies and you can see all the heavens beautiful
00:57:06
Milky Way in front of you if you were to look through that at that same night sky through a radio telescope you would see
00:57:12
something different you would see nebula you would see things that you can't normally perceive and the ultraviolet
00:57:18
and infrared spectrums an x-ray right it's there you just can't perceive it it's just like if you had cell phone
00:57:24
Vision all of a sudden now you can see in Wi-Fi and 5G you would see an entirely different reality around you so
00:57:31
we perceive light we perceive life through a very narrow spectrum of visible light the inv visible light
00:57:36
spectrum when reality is most everything else kind of Lies beyond that and then you have a scale issue you have a scalability issue what do I mean by scalability We Are a Human Being you and
00:57:49
I are having a lovely conversation here somewhere in some someplace uh on this planet uh revolving around an obscure star in an obscure part of the Milky Way galaxy amongst a super cluster of other
00:58:01
galaxies the visible Horizon from any direction we look at of light the size of the universe has been estimated to be
00:58:08
between 13.6 to 13.9 billion Lighty years B billion what is a lightyear a lightyear is the distance that a photon of light can travel in the course of a year and how fast is that well light
00:58:22
travels at roughly 186,000 m per second or seven and a half times around our planet in 1 second right really fast imagine how far that goes in a year and
00:58:32
now imagine how far that goes 13.9 billion years right so we're in the middle of the universe here our
00:58:38
Universal Horizon in any direction is 13.9 billion light years and in that direction another 13.9 so roughly 27 billion light years across and we're in the middle now scientists are estimating
00:58:50
that's that's less than 10% of the actual size of the universe the universe is actually much much bigger than that
00:58:56
this is just the univer Universal Horizon because the expansion of the universe light this far will never reach
00:59:02
Earth so now you're talking about a size 100 billion Lighty years and as small as
00:59:07
we are right in the middle this infinitesimally small spec keep in mind in our visible Universe alone visible
00:59:13
there are more stars than there are grains of sand in all the beaches in all the world think about that
00:59:20
incomprehensible number and as small as we are now human me with this take one atom one hydrogen atom avagadro is number 1 * 10 23 okay that's roughly the
00:59:36
same order of magnitude as we are to the universe so we have this entire huge Universe outside and this entire little Universe inside every single human being and we as a human beings can only
00:59:49
interact with one or two orders of magnitude up or down otherwise the universe is simply too big or too small
00:59:56
small we just will never be able to know and that is reality that's where most of everything lies that's where most of
01:00:02
reality is see they up there or inside or everything in between so I guess my point is every
01:00:10
time when people say well you know aliens what does that mean what does that mean because most people say aliens and Hollywood and little Eggheads running around there's so much more to
01:00:21
it it doesn't this is this is us imposing a Hollywood idea of what an alien should
01:00:29
look like and by the way let's not forget they're anthropomorphic values right they they look like us they have
01:00:34
arms like us and heads like us and eyes like us um because we view everything through anthropomorphic eyes it's the
01:00:40
reason why we we call our dogs human names and we treat them like humans because we treat everything as if they
01:00:46
have human values human motivation human intent when we may be dealing with something completely different this
01:00:51
could be like artificial intelligence it's just binary input in input out we don't know and so these are some of
01:00:59
the questions we have to you know really as we moving down this this pathway this
01:01:04
is why I always tell people look all options have to be on the table until they're no longer on the table because we simply don't know we also don't know
01:01:11
what their intentions are and why they might be here that's right why they might be visiting here that's right do
01:01:16
you have a any theories as to what their intentions might be brother there's a whole range of theories I mean it could
01:01:22
be simply as like when we're on the African serengetti and we see the wilder beast and we're in a helicopter and you
01:01:28
know not to make fun of it but you sit there and say oh that one we Dart it boom what do we do we land the helicopter we come out we draw blood we
01:01:33
do test we want to see its diet and its migratory patterns its health and then what happens the wilderbeast wakes up
01:01:40
kind of groggy disoriented stumbles over to the watering hole he's like hey Bill you're not going to believe this man this thing came out of the sky all some
01:01:47
weird stuff happened I was being touched I woke up and now my butt hurts right it could be something as simple as that do
01:01:52
you believe any of those reports cuz people do say that they were abducted by well this is my point right so so that's
01:01:58
that's one option the other option could be simply to monitor us um it could be that we are getting very close to being able to replicate what they can do um and if that's the case you know maybe
01:02:10
technologically we're only 100 200 years behind and if that's the case now all of a sudden we're going to be new neighbors
01:02:16
right and that could be problematic because our species very violent we do a lot of bad things to each other are we
01:02:22
really ready to go out and meet our potential friends from out of town I don't know I mean we're pretty
01:02:27
horrible to each other so maybe not certainly if I was them and we were I knew we were getting close I would
01:02:34
probably be pretty interested in what we're doing too um as far as the abductions you know I don't know what to
01:02:40
tell you because I've never been abducted um I've had some some people that swear by it but you know you can't have a conversation about abduction and then say oh they're here for peaceful
01:02:51
reasons doesn't work that way do you believe them the people that swear by it I believe that I believe that they are being truthful that they that experience
01:02:58
they feel is real I don't think they're lying um but the question is you know did it happen is the question yeah and I I and I I can't say because I wasn't there but I can tell you that we
01:03:09
definitely have people that have had experiences where they are now on US Government full medical disability in
01:03:15
writing because they got too close to a UAP now was it deliberate that they got injured or was it just a a byproduct of
01:03:21
the technology they got too close to it what does that mean they got too close to it and you mentioned that there's some people that are on us disability
01:03:28
allowance so they're being paid by the US government and writing because they they had a UAP they were they were
01:03:33
involved in a UAP encounter and what does that mean UAP encounter in that definition well so let's look at it this
01:03:39
way um n here's a better one you go to the airport right and I'm going to hop on a 737 and go fly to Fort Lauderdale
01:03:47
there's no real threat there I'm getting on a plane it's safe sit on the seat have a cocktail you know watch a movie
01:03:53
read a magazine now if I were to walk out out onto the tarmac onto the runway that same where that same airplane is
01:03:59
and that airplane decides to spool up its jet engine chances are I'm going to be injured I'm going to get burned I'm
01:04:05
going to lose my hearing and possibly a lot worse right there are individuals US
01:04:11
Government servicemen and women and there's also intelligence officials who have been injured by getting too close
01:04:17
to a UAP whether incidentally or or it was deliberate or not the question is was it injury sustained because it was deliberate or was that injury sustained because it was just a matter of being
01:04:31
too close to the technology for example it's like putting your head near a microwave oven when it's on it's
01:04:37
probably not very good for you right and have those people spoken out absolutely what's like a good example um
01:04:45
there's an individual right now named John burough who uh who had his medical files um classified in the US government thankfully because of Senator late Senator John McCain from Arizona forced
01:04:58
the Air Force to release his files and as a result he was able to get full medical disability because of an
01:05:04
incident that involved uh him and another individual in the UK uh known as randam Forest incident or bentwaters incident where there was a US joint us
01:05:15
uh and UK base and there was a UFO incident where this thing had landed in the in the forest and they went out to
01:05:22
go see this thing and they were injured and they were in the military at the time M yeah Air Force Special police or
01:05:28
police officers they were injured they were injured and that's not all there's a lot
01:05:35
of people that have been injured right now that are under Medical Care by government doctors that is a
01:05:44
fact when they give their account of what happened what do they say it depends who you ask I mean there's some
01:05:50
consistency without within some of the stories and then there's some Divergence you know it's like somebody who said say
01:05:55
they've been in a car accident depending what kind of car you're in and was it a multiple car pileup and where were you sitting in the car you're going to have
01:06:01
a slightly different experience so it's not one shoe fits all you talk about how they there's been a lot of UAP sightings
01:06:08
at nuclear technology facilities yes that is and that is why this is a national security issue because they seem to be able to disable our nuclear capabilities now people say oh oh that's
01:06:20
like you know taking matches out of a kid's hands and it's you know well maybe but in Russia there's information to
01:06:26
suggest they actually turned them on so you know we have to be really careful with that our nuclear Triad capability
01:06:34
is really the crown jewels of the US government and so if a country or an adversary has the ability to interfere
01:06:39
with a nuclear response that's significant there's evidence to suggest that they turned on the nuclear facilities in Russia yes what is that
01:06:47
evidence when was that there's there's evidence that there's actually a KGB report um that suggested that the uh one
01:06:55
of their their places was actually turned on in fact there's a lot let me careful what I say here um so after the
01:07:02
Berlin Wall fell there was this brief honeymoon period between the Soviet Union and the US where X KGB officers
01:07:10
were sharing information with us and our government um I think that's about all I
01:07:16
could probably say about that but there was some very interesting um information
01:07:22
that we were able to to see I was reading about this really interesting incident called the coloris
01:07:29
incident colaris in Brazil I can I can't pronounce that say that he did agre Karis
01:07:34
Polaris which was in 1977 to 1978 um and it sounded like a UAP incident that was witnessed by hundreds thousands of people it was investigated
01:07:48
officially by the Brazilian military under the command and control of a four-star general named General Ooa
01:07:56
uh and um he has explained before he passed away that even his own military personnel had been been attacked by by UAP and what did they see
01:08:09
what was the what did they document see oh my goodness a whole Litany of things a lot of the locals uh recall being
01:08:15
terrified by these things being pursued by them almost being like like a laser blast if you can imagine that or
01:08:20
directed energy type injury um very provocative um some of the military personnel were injured as well a lot of medical doctors came in afterwards to look at the locals and the
01:08:31
military personnel VA validating the presumption that there was some sort of directed
01:08:37
energy type damage tissue damage U to some of these people um and of course then the fear kind of escalated into some of the other you know local lore of
01:08:48
some other things um but it was very well established by the Brazilian military who also witnessed these
01:08:55
encounters so it's not like just some people in a remote Village um these were Brazilian Military Officers who also
01:09:02
vouched for and I I spoken to dozens and dozens of Military Officers all throughout Latin America and in Chile
01:09:08
and Peru and urai and you know they all reporting in some cases some very very similar encounters not necessarily with kadus but inant amongst themselves people who don't even know each other
01:09:20
separated by different countries are telling me their same encounter and and the same morphology of craft and how
01:09:27
they would in some cases even try to engage in a dog fight and use cannons conventional guns um to no avail of
01:09:33
course um and there's reports of that in Tyron incident I believe it's 1978 the Tyron incident with an F-14 Tom Cat uh
01:09:41
where the pilot um his aircraft was disabled every time he tried to engage a Target and then you know I superimpose that with here in Huntsville Alabama we had some helicopters uh that we were
01:09:52
testing and uh something like eight out of the eight test pilots all reported UAP U coming around their their their
01:10:00
helicopters while they were testing them and one even reported that uh he believed his his um his helicopter was
01:10:07
disabled and he went into an emergency uh situation I think it was an emergency auto rotation situation and as soon as
01:10:14
the UAP left uh he was able to regain control of his helicopter should we be worried about this no I don't think worried I think we should be concerned
01:10:26
because look from a from a governmental perspective to determine this is why I always say this is a national security
01:10:31
issue but not a naal national security threat and and there's a reason why so there's a very simple calculus to determine if something is a threat it's
01:10:43
capabilities versus intent we have seen some of the capabilities we have no idea
01:10:48
the intent no clue so we don't know if it's if it's a threat and let me give you a little analogy here that might
01:10:53
help kind of put this I I I use analogy a lot to help illustrate what do I mean um I'm sure you live in a lovely home let me ask you the question do you lock your front door before you go to bed yes
01:11:05
okay and you know what I do too and I think most people we don't expect anything bad to happen but just out of
01:11:10
precaution right and some folks may go the extra mile and decide you know I'm going to just make sure the windows are locked once in a while and you know what
01:11:16
I might even turn the alarm on at night because I can let's say you wake up one Sunday morning to have yourself a nice
01:11:23
hot cup of tea or coffee and you walk downstairs and all of a sudden as you come downstairs one Bright Morning you
01:11:29
notice size 12 muddy bootprints on your living room carpet that were not there the night before now no one's been hurt nothing's out of place but despite you locking the front door and checking the
01:11:40
windows and turning on the alarm there are now bootprints in your living room floor that were not there the night before my question to you is is that a
01:11:47
threat my response is it could be if it wanted to be so we should probably figure out how it's getting into the
01:11:53
house this is kind of the same analogy of these things that can come in unimpeded unchallenged into controlled us airspace oversensitive military
01:11:59
installations potentially interfere with our nuclear equities and capabilities we should probably figure
01:12:05
out what these things are with everything that you know in mind and everything you've witnessed and
01:12:12
seen if you had to argue against yourself if you had to argue the case against everything that you believe to make the case that uaps don't exist what exactly would you say well you can't say
01:12:23
they don't exist we've already we're Beyond it they're real whatever they are but I could make the argument that it's foreign adversarial technology it's
01:12:29
Russia it's China right uh they have leap frogged us technologically and have been able to execute this this plan
01:12:36
wonderfully uh and then the other option is that it's all a grand hallucination so let's go down each argument let's go down the fact that
01:12:43
maybe this is I don't know Chinese technology Russian technology after all the Chinese did send balloons over our
01:12:50
Northern continental United States spy balloons and you know for who knows how long and we never did anything about it
01:12:55
and tracked it um that means that for the last 70 years some country has been able to create a technology in secret that's so
01:13:06
far advance of anything we have and by the way deploy it over the continental United States for 70 years completely
01:13:15
non-attributed now where were we 70 years ago well we on the heels of World War II we had just broken the sound barrier and we hadn't made it into space yet
01:13:28
where was China in the middle of a famine where was Russia no better than we were so if this was Chinese
01:13:35
technology or Russian technology back then because we had the data to show it goes all the way back this would be the
01:13:41
greatest intelligence failure this country has ever faced eclipsing that of even 911 because despite the billions of
01:13:46
dollars in the 17 intelligence organizations over 70 years there's not a trace that these countries were able
01:13:53
to develop this and and and fly over our country and do what what we're seeing so that's option
01:13:59
one also temporally speaking that type of Technology didn't exist back in 1950 1948 we not not by us anyway so that would be like going into
01:14:12
King tutt's tomb for the very first time in the 1920s and looking in there and all of a sudden discovering a fully assembled and functioning 747 doesn't make sense Egyptians didn't
01:14:26
have the technology back then right so let's go to the other option so that's that's that would be the huge biggest
01:14:32
intelligence failure that this country's ever experienced and that's not a good option and very very unlikely so the
01:14:39
other option is this is you know what it's a mass hallucination everybody's crazy so let's go down that rabbit hole
01:14:45
for a second so some of the best and brightest in our intelligence community and our Department of Defense our Top
01:14:51
Gun trained pilots who are who are trusted to fly live munition over cities populated cities fight and
01:14:58
win Wars on our behalf men and women who have their finger literally on the nuclear button they're all crazy they're
01:15:05
all absolutely certifiably insane we've got a bigger problem on our hands in UAP what percentage of them have made reports of
01:15:17
UAP um you know it's hard to say percentage because you don't know because the ones that don't report
01:15:22
there's no way to measure right you only know the ones that do report so there's no way now we can tell you that people
01:15:28
more more are reporting because they feel that it's safe that they can report but we don't have any metric right now
01:15:33
that tells us who's not reporting because they're not reporting when you when we think about this hallucination rationale um I remember many years ago
01:15:41
you know I think it was in relation to uh physical hallucinations I remember ghosts and things like that yeah it was
01:15:48
relation to ghosts someone said to me they said if really extremely improbable things never happened then that would be
01:15:57
a miracle because just like the nature of probability means that most sort of predictable things happen most of the
01:16:03
time and then as you get down probability there's this one side of it which is high probable curve yeah
01:16:08
exactly so like the the Bell shape curve this side of it is extremely improbable things you know I uh what's extremely
01:16:15
improbable example we start talking about Andrew hubman and then my phone rings in it's Andrew hubman and we go oh my God what are the odds of that being Andrew hubman we were just talking about
01:16:26
him and the issue there is we've spoken about many people and the phone never rang but on the one time it does we go
01:16:32
we connect the dots in hindsight and we go that is a miracle and we attribute meaning to that is it not possible that
01:16:40
you know if there's thousands and thousands of these sightings there's also billions of non-
01:16:46
sightings so on that bell curve of probability there's this is these are just the the unexplainable highly
01:16:53
improbable thousand incidents of you know maybe there was something on the camera maybe
01:16:59
there was something fall lightning uh atmospheric anomaly but the problem is you we're going back to the to the the
01:17:06
idea that there are multiple sensor systems collecting the same information at the same time under the same circumstances right this isn't just one
01:17:12
person like your call oh my gosh out to believe the guy calls you've got multiple platforms reporting the
01:17:20
information at the same time simultaneously right so it's not just oh well I saw atmospheric aberration the
01:17:26
Radar's picking it up the gun camera is picking it up the fleer's picking it up and another radar system is picking up and another radar and by the way other
01:17:33
capabilities which I can't discuss here are also picking it up so it's a real thing now could it
01:17:39
be uh Russian rocket on re-entry that happened to use up all its hydrazine and now the booster rock is burning up yeah but then you don't have these 90 degree turns you
01:17:50
don't have 180 Dee turns you don't have something coming in sitting at 80,000 F feet then dropping up right above the
01:17:56
surface of the water hovering 50 fet then popping right back up again that you can measure it's quantifiable and
01:18:02
qualifiable data is is that you referring to the what they call the Tic Tac incident is that is that what that
01:18:07
is as well that so the Tic Tac incident is that's not the video from the Tic Tac but yeah the Tic Tac incident or these
01:18:13
objects that were detected at one point one of the The Operators said it was raining UFOs so
01:18:18
the spywi radar can can detect a a baseball siiz object at 880,000 fet okay so very very capable you had E2 Hawkeye what's that it's a Air Platform it's an
01:18:31
aircraft it's a flying radar system uh that we use to provide combat support air support and and combat control for
01:18:38
aircraft so you have the AIS class uh Destroyer it's basically like a um sh t t Roa class I think you have the the USS
01:18:50
Princeton with the Spy one radar one of the world's most pre Premier at the time s radar systems on the planet you have
01:18:56
the E2 Hawkeye also picking it up on radar then you have the aircraft that can pick it up on radar then you have
01:19:02
the eyewitnesses picking up a rer then you have the also the footage the flare footage picking these things up as well
01:19:08
electrooptically so you're talking about something that is at 880,000 feet then within a blink of an eye has the ability to drop down to 50 feet and then go right back up again instantly um and
01:19:20
it's all being verified by various different sensor systems now in this particular case I'm convoluting a little
01:19:25
bit because the Pilot's incident confirmed the Tic Tac but they didn't see a dropping out of 80,000 ft I'm so
01:19:32
I'm kind of putting it all together to make it a little easier for people to consume but the the P Tac incident
01:19:37
wasn't really an incident it was incidents over over a pro protracted period of time in in the early November
01:19:44
time frame so it wasn't just one incident there are multiple incidents but it's referred to as the Tic Tac
01:19:50
incident because the pilots actually reported seeing this white flying what's been described as a lozenge what's been
01:19:57
described historically as a white flying Bank tank in this particular case it was described as a white flying Tic Tac like
01:20:03
the breath M Tic Tac and they saw they saw it go up down on Radars and systems like that oh yeah yeah they saw up down
01:20:10
on radar systems and then the pilots actually saw it zip away and bang disappear over the horizon only later on
01:20:17
uh within a few moments to be picked up on radar again 60 miles away at their C point where they're supposed to rendevu
01:20:23
next um so you're talking incredible speeds incredible accelerate Hypersonic velocity instantaneous acceleration low
01:20:30
observability all the anti-gravity all the the observables and that's just one that's
01:20:36
just one that's publicly known there's a lot more of these things that have been been happening how long were you with
01:20:42
this uh working on that project at the Pentagon a a tip uh eight years eight years I'm an old guy this is gray not blonde let's talk about our sponsor weop quickly we're now on the the home
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to bonch charge.com diary and get started on your in Fred SAA Journey today what was like what's like a day in
01:22:41
the life of someone working in a project that deals with UFOs at the Pentagon like you come in in the morning you get
01:22:47
your coffee I had the two worst portfolios anybody could ever ask for at the Pentagon um I was I it was I was like a pariah I had the two most unpopular portfolios I was
01:23:00
on one hand I was working the UAP issue UFO issue on the other hand I was also working uh guantan bay issues
01:23:11
um very politically charged very untenable situation uh but that was my job so I had both those portfolios and so every day was um
01:23:24
it was like riding a tiger to work and every day that tiger just wanted to rip you off and Shred you into pieces and
01:23:30
you just had to hold on for dear life yeah it was um it was stressful in 2014 uh I was informed that I was put on the Isis Al-Qaeda kill list for uh my
01:23:42
work at UH involving guantan Mo Bay um and of course uh we had the UAP issue it was it was uncomfortable it was uncomfortable times it was it was uncomfortable time for for for me um
01:23:56
professionally I I wouldn't have wished it on any anybody did you enjoy it I enjoyed the people I enjoyed the the the
01:24:02
the mission and and doing what I thought and what I think is right for our nation um but no I mean if if there was an easier job I could have had I probably would have done it but most of
01:24:14
my jobs I tended to be handpicked to do the jobs I had done I guess someone somewhere thought I was doing a good job with other stuff and they they kind of always would bump me a new stuff um how
01:24:26
does your work with UFOs and your belief in these other I was going to say life forms but just these other forms of I don't know activity that we can't explain because I hesitate on the word
01:24:40
life forms because again yeah and let me say it's not a belief in life it's I belief in possibilities okay right I
01:24:46
don't know I can't tell you definitively that oh I I believe in you know life and then looks like this and other parts of the G I don't know I don't know that I haven't been to space
01:24:58
I couldn't tell you but we have to remain open to the possibilities and look at the data allow the data to speak
01:25:03
for itself and then draw conclusions based upon the data did this understanding make your life more fulfilling or feel more insignificant
01:25:11
because I sometimes think of when I spend time watching space movies and documentaries and I see them flying I
01:25:17
know to Mars and then through these black holes and stuff it reminds me how big and vast the universe really is and
01:25:22
all of that then makes me feel a few things two things in at the same time one of them is like totally insignificant in the grand scheme of what's out there and the Technologies
01:25:33
you've described and the way you've described them in part makes me feel quite insignificant because I'm like I'm just this tiny little grain of sand in
01:25:40
this NeverEnding Beach and I really don't matter in the grand scheme of this and then the second thing which is a
01:25:47
positive consequence of that feeling is it kind of alleviates your anxiety I guess like nothing really matters
01:25:53
nothing there's nothing to worry about that is very insightful can I can I ask you a favor mm so you have the little
01:25:59
iPad in front of you typing in the words pale blue dot under Google images and I want you to tell me what you
01:26:07
see okay I'll type in pale blue dot do you know what that is take a look at that blow it up zoom in what do you see it's a tiny little dot of light um
01:26:22
tiny little there's this massive I mean it looks like kind of like the night sky almost and there's this tiny little dot
01:26:29
of light you know what that is what is that that's the planet you live on that's earth oh that's Earth okay every
01:26:37
memory every piece of history occurred on that tiny little insignificant ball hurdling through the vastness and vacuum of space and that ray of light is actually from the Sun and that was taken
01:26:51
by one of our probes as it was heading out towards the solar system and it was told to turn back and take a picture
01:26:58
that's our home how does that picture make you feel totally insignificant irrelevant um like I just don't matter but how but how about this
01:27:10
yes it will make you feel insignificant but you know else it can do make you realize just how special we really
01:27:17
are that little blue dot The Little Engine That Could that's where we live that's our home and that is real and that is
01:27:28
special so to answer your question how does it make me feel you can feel insignificant and still feel special at the same time and that's why I wanted you to see
01:27:39
that picture because you're illustrating for me exactly the question you're asking me and so in order to rather than
01:27:46
just give you an answer I wanted you to experience my answer and that is my answer what do your kids think of uh
01:27:53
what what you do these days I don't know what I do my children are the greatest accomplishment in my
01:27:59
life there'll be nothing in my life that will ever come close to the achievement of being a father period full stop so
01:28:04
there's nothing I will ever do that will come close to that so it doesn't really matter uh what I do else in life because
01:28:11
that's the most important now what do they think about what I do you probably have to ask them do they believe in UAP
01:28:17
it's not believe they they believe in data I never told them to believe in UAP but do they believe that there we are
01:28:23
alone in the universe Ah that's a different question um let's well you'd have to ask them for that but but let me let's let's break that down again because it's important we we we
01:28:33
love going into these binary things either or okay does life exist in the universe yes
01:28:39
this is living proof this planet okay in fact life is Abundant Life is everywhere on this planet even the place that we
01:28:45
think could never possibly exist it is there and it thrives um my my daughters are very
01:28:52
open-minded but they're also inde dependent thinkers I taught them don't be like Mom and Dad if you don't want to
01:28:58
be like Mom and Dad if we do something stupid don't do it you learn the lesson um so we've never prescribed our children what to think or what to believe ever it's been up to them um
01:29:08
they are incredibly intelligent uh they both have very successful careers uh and
01:29:15
they think on their own and what they think is sacred and I don't ever want to interfere with that and I've always told
01:29:20
him you don't not asking you to believe anything do you believe we're learning the universe we are absolutely not alone
01:29:26
in the universe we just better hope the other life is kind I guess ah see but there we go again is me too but but what is kind
01:29:41
let's just hope they don't hurt us Ah that's different you're right let's hope they don't eradicate us right let's hope
01:29:46
they're they're they're not malevolent I would agree with that let's hope they're not uh you know here for their own
01:29:52
interests and not ours why did did you call the book iminent open the open the first
01:29:58
page and there uh when you get to the first written actual words it's before the forward it's what's it say says you
01:30:06
may be wondering why I titled this book imminent the word itself sometimes is associated with another word threat
01:30:12
although at first glance it may appear that this book focuses on the Potential Threat of unidentified anomalous
01:30:18
phenomena UAP or UFOs in the vernacular that is not my intent According to some of the common definitions of the word imminent it usually means something is about to happen or impending or
01:30:28
inevitable this is precisely why I chose the this title The Invasion is an imminent not
01:30:35
that's kind of what I'm trying to check I know I know but that's not my intent we have a closing tradition on this
01:30:40
podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for and the question that's been left
01:30:47
for you is what is something you were once deeply afraid of that now you are no longer afraid
01:30:58
of fear fear I'm not afraid of it anymore I used to be afraid of everything freid of of combat afraid of death afraid of War afraid of Health
01:31:14
Care issues afraid of other people not for me but for other people it's a little bit liberating to not be
01:31:25
afraid it's like the old saying the only thing we have to fear is fear itself right um I mean clearly I'm still concerned there's concern but actual
01:31:36
fear man I'm over 50 years old brother there's nothing anybody can do to me that at this point I've lived a full
01:31:42
life and I've had more than my fair share whatever dude you know if I spend the rest of my
01:31:48
life it doesn't matter because I've lived such an incredible life and I've have an incredible family so doesn't
01:31:54
really matter Lou thank you thank you for your time and thank you for writing a book which gives us a very very rare view
01:32:02
into what happens inside the Pentagon as it relates to the subject of UAP UFOs um
01:32:07
it's called inside the pentagon's hunt UFO is imminent and I highly recommend anybody that's interested in these
01:32:13
subjects to read this book I'll link it in the description below because it's fascinating you know I I'm certainly
01:32:19
someone that believes we're not alone in the universe I have no idea what that means or what that looks like and I
01:32:24
think to really have a strong view either way um to think that we're not alone or to think that you can perfectly
01:32:31
articulate who is here with us is probably some form of naivity and ignorance and probably you know well
01:32:37
they're one and the same right the True Believers and the true Skeptics they're just on opposite ends of the spectrum because no matter what information you
01:32:44
give them they're never going to change their narrative so I I think you're right and I think generally I think a better position to take on all these
01:32:49
subjects is to remain open-minded and that's why I was Keen to have this convers ation because I'm just I like to
01:32:55
remain open-minded to information and um there's so many times in history that we thought we had it figured out and we
01:33:01
didn't so to think we have it figured out now is is is stupidity frankly so exactly Lou thank you my honor and
01:33:08
privilege thank you thank you thank you isn't this cool every single conversation I have here on the D CE at
01:33:18
the very end of it you'll know I asked the guest to leave a question in the Diary of a CEO and what we've done is we've turned every single question written in the Diary of a CEO into these
01:33:30
conversation cards that you can play at home so you've got every guest we've ever had their question and on the back
01:33:38
of it if you scan that QR code you get to watch the person who answered that question we're finally revealing all of the questions and the people that
01:33:50
answered the question the brand new version two updated conversation cards are out right now at Theon conversation cards.com theyve sold out twice instantaneously so if you are interested
01:34:02
in getting hold of some limited edition conversation cards I really really recommend acting quickly
01:34:09
[Music] [Music] oh