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they would be though screaming at you at half time they'd be screaming you at the
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end of the game told of that David the Messiah boy is one of the best known football managers across the globe
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building teams with a clear identity I was desperate to be successful as a manager and I had 11 years where you'll
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find it really difficult to break into the top four the phone line who said Alex and he said I'm retiring and you're
00:00:32
the next manager of Manchester United a new interview not saying would you like to be I met Edward on the next day back
00:00:39
to his house again we met the Glazer it was three days and that was as simple as
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that to get that offer from the greatest manager maybe it ever was was a great compliment but maybe if I'd really
00:00:49
looked into more detail and more depth there was a huge change going to have to take place I trusted Manchester United
00:00:55
do you feel like that trust was let down definitely but my biggest regret was we start with the story that has
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dominated the front pages the sacking of David Moyes how did you find out that you're losing your job media oh really
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if you've got any class or any style you have to give bad news wheel what are those steps forward to get West
00:01:17
Ham competing at the very top of the table I want to build a new West Ham a lot of supporters might not like the
00:01:23
sort of that when you look at where West Ham is now do you worry about losing your job I've got to see it
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before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel
00:01:37
didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any
00:01:44
of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor
00:01:47
and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen
00:01:52
the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode [Music] take me back to the context that I need
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to understand in order to understand you take me back to Glasgow 1960s yes I was in a really good family
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who were really important and you're probably going to be talking a lot about
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it now but uh we were a family who we stayed in the West End of Glasgow in a tournament building
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and uh we used to have to you know go up this up the tournament and if people who
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don't know what a tournament is a tournament is a you know what we would probably think I bought block of flats
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and you got the tournament and they were never in Glasgow that at that time very very uh good to look at
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people look down on them a little bit but it was a great upbringing for me that allowed me to play my football out
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in the street which at that time was was some which everybody considered you know
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Street footballers everybody played football on the street and everybody in Glasgow did play football in the street
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played in the park so I started in Glasgow in the West End and that was probably where me and my
00:03:04
family grew up your father's also called David he certainly is yeah what did he do for a living
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and how did that influence well well this is probably is a really good question to me if for me is because but
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that actually was a teacher but he worked in the shipyards in in Glasgow which was really important so he walked
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in the as a shipbuilder and then he went on to become a teacher in a college but meanwhile what he'd done in in his
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part of his other job was that he was a an amateur Football Manager and there was a very famous boys club team in
00:03:38
Glasgow called from Chapel amateurs which was very famous and really is uh all my memories come with my Dad running
00:03:46
one of the teams at Drum Shop armatures now for the people who don't know you
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know there's people like uh Sir Alex Ferguson played with him Chapel amateurs
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there was people like uh ASA Hartford played for Trump and she was John Watt was a Scottish International so it was a
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very very famous boys club uh my dad also ran uh the college where he teached my dad was a teacher at
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Annie's Land College which was a college in Glasgow and he uh he took the team every
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Saturday morning and then he took the amateur football team every Saturday afternoon you've got to remember this
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result well there was no no money involved in this so really part of my life was seen my
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dad grow up as a football manager for amateurs uh but meanwhile his real job was that he
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was a teacher at Town Eastland College did that make you want to pursue that as a career at that time or what what kind
00:04:38
of influence has that had on you in hindsight well I think when I look back now I'd
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say to say to I think your parents are viewed a huge influence and everything you do
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for different reasons mine definitely did but I don't think when you're growing up as a boy you're
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thinking that you know I'm going to be influenced too much by my dad or my mom
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you don't think that's you get a bit older yourself and when you look back
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you go wow I can't believe that I'm quite similar to my dad or I can't
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believe it I followed my mum and going back to that you know my mom was part of it as well my mum had to
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wash the strips and hang them up outside and you know and then she'd have to wash
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them and I she'd wash them and iron them and I'd be folding them and put them
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away so probably from a really young boy I was watching my dad and my mum uh help help young young boys at that
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time no fulfill go for a game of football hopefully they were all home to going to become professional footballers
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but if not try and be successful playing for for the boys team in Glasgow at that
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time one of the things we do tend to pick up from our parents from what I've
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seen and I certainly did myself was I guess like principles and values of like how to approach life and how to
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deal with life um what were those principles and values that your parents imparted on you
00:05:52
directly or indirectly from observation about life and how to deal with it and how to confront it
00:05:59
well I think your parents will always influence you in some way um I was sent to church when I was when
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I was younger so I went to church a lot of people were and I think that probably had an
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influence as well in its own way in the in the early days but I think more to do
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with schooling uh more to do with uh education and and what they they try to do and to be fair
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none of them I was never pushed on innocent I was never pushed to know to be that well educated I was never pushed
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out to be a great football player they were just encouraging really and always daily support so I had parents who
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really let me grow up the way the way I chose to do so but everything was Guided
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by them you know respect uh no trust you know trying to be truthful all the time all
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those things I think come into a good relationship did you ever have a you kind of suggested there that they
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weren't necessarily like pushy parents necessarily but did you ever have any
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idea of what career or aspiration would make them proud if I'd asked you you know what does your
00:07:03
mum or dad want you to be when you're older when you're younger what would you
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said uh I think my dad would have definitely said I hope you're a footballer you know I think that I think
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my dad would have always probably thought that he's a great love of football as well
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but I think they were they were always really supportive in in anything I wanted to do but I think you know as I
00:07:24
get as I got on and I got to an age where I was starting to get coarse I know 12 or 13 I think football was
00:07:30
probably my my biggest sort of love and what I wanted to do and I was more interested in either watching football
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playing football and there and that was probably they probably saw that around about that age
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as well and is it sort of 12 12 years old you were in Celtics Youth System yeah it was what it was is it that time
00:07:50
Celtic Celtic had a boys club and you have to remember my dad also as I said ran a very very famous boys team or one
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of the teams in in Glasgow and drum Chapel Armature so but I went to Celtic boys club uh
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and applied with Celtic boys club from Mob is about 12 to 16 till went on but they were they were brilliant years I
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had there you know the my time at cell taken which uh you know came after as a player in a
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and as a you know a senior professional not a senior professional but a professional I should say but the Young
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The Young period when I was at Celtic boys club was I can only remember being winning things and being really
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successful and you know representing no Glasgow schools as a school board as representing Scotland school schools as
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a Schoolboy International so I had really really uh good days in the early days probably from 1459 onwards did you
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if I'd asked you even at that age so say when you were 16 if I'd asked you
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about your Ambitions in football what would you have responded with uh I I hope that I might have been good
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enough to to become a player I'm not sure I would be uh and I would love to be involved in
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football and I always used to think that you know I'm hoping that maybe I could run an
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amateur team or I could be involved I could maybe might be good enough to take a junior team you know might get paid a
00:09:15
little bit of money you know maybe maybe I'd become a youth team coach for someday if if you know if
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I wasn't going to be a football player always thought even at that time when we
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were growing up was like lots of use clubs no so we would go to a school youth club you know because it was where
00:09:30
you'd be getting my table tennis you'd play pool you know the gym might be then
00:09:34
you play five aside football no whoever was there it's always thought well maybe
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I might be able to use club or something if I didn't get her if I didn't get any
00:09:42
more better than that so those early days there was no guarantee that you were going to become a footballer if
00:09:48
everybody really wanted to become a footballer what did you learn from your dad as a manager is there anything even
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today where you think I think I've got that from my dad or that trait or that
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yeah planning yeah organization commitment and if I just talk about planning you
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know at that time there was no mobile phones then so it was it was a phone so he'd be phoning
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all the playoffs they say look we're playing on Saturday I want you to meet at 12 30 we're meeting wherever it was
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and at that time they all had to come at times with the same with a shot and tie
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on they had to bring her back you know they all had to come with the same bag shot in time you've got to remember this
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is Glasgow in a time when you know people well people had to turn up we're calling tie on if you didn't turn up
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with your car and tie on you might not get selected for a game so small things like this
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if you're talking about maybe disciplines or or ways you were brought up I think possibly I picked up a lot of
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the traits probably early on why does that matter where do the small things matter shirt and tie
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uh do you think they matter I guess is another yeah I do I think they really do matter
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I think sometimes I mean and I have to say in if you if you jumped onto this my senior time I think
00:11:00
I think they've always looked better I think players people have always looked
00:11:04
better if they dress well and they they're correct they look prepared for the games
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I jumped to Manchester United just currently in Signal Manchester United had a rule which Sir Alex had that they
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would always turn up for away games and shutting ties now most teams would rather turn up the tracksuit players can
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come more casual but Manchester United always turned up uh with a shot and tie on which I thought was a great thing
00:11:28
because they wanted to show what they were wanted to come out there and say look the way we look the way we approach
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it you look at this Manchester United and I I've got to say I really admired
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admired that part of it it's interesting it's an interesting small psychological advantage isn't it
00:11:44
to some degree if I guess it's a statement of professionalism and attention to detail before the before
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the ball's even kicked yes and uh you know so that takes me back so you're saying is no maybe Sir
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Alex who played with from Chapel amateurs maybe maybe it picked up from his timing from Chapel Armature so you
00:12:02
know the way they they they had to turn up shut the ties on and they had a Blazer on
00:12:08
and again let's reaches the number to football team in Glasgow you you um you
00:12:13
played with many many clubs over your almost 600 career um games a few across a variety of different
00:12:21
divisions um that time working as a player across multiple clubs and multiple divisions
00:12:28
what did that teach you and it's always useful to get a variety of different
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experiences so that you can kind of create your own perspective on on the world but what did that teach you those
00:12:36
600 games as a player what are the fundamentals the fundamentals where I learned so much but
00:12:43
my but my early days when it when I started at Celtic was probably engraved in me more than anything because Celtic
00:12:51
is an incredible tradition of winning you know winning now obviously Celtic had to win with style as well celt it
00:12:56
were you know the biggest cobweight Rangers in Glasgow in in Scotland I should say and and because of that
00:13:02
Celtic had to to win was always so important so oh no I could see that there was the first team there was the
00:13:08
reserves there was the the youth team and all the managers were under pressure to win then if you did win then it was
00:13:15
and what was the score you won one nothing that's not good enough you need to win you need to win three or four
00:13:20
nothing you need to win buy more codes and how did you play well we didn't play
00:13:24
that well we scored the known it was a Scorpio not good enough you have to win with style so I think my early days I
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would I was brought up with brilliant footballers people who showed me I don't know if you want to call it a
00:13:39
philosophy because philosophy might be much deeper and might offer much more but it gave me some way how do you say
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well I have to win I have to find a way of winning you know if I can win with style that's even better but more
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importantly I have to find a way of winning and I picked that up probably my early days at Celtic and I wasn't near
00:13:55
that long no that wasn't here that long but I wasn't here that long probably as a
00:13:59
senior player I moved on and ended up bobbing around the championship in a couple of lower leagues in England for a
00:14:05
long time but I come across some some really great managers uh I can't come across so much we aren't
00:14:12
so good but you know I always try to be respectful to any of them because that came from from my background in my my
00:14:19
upbringing but I also was trying to pick up everything I could in when I was 20 I had already qualified as a as a
00:14:33
full-time fill a license coach at the time you know to be a coach you had to have an a license it was called
00:14:39
uh now you have to have a pro license but you have to was it was an e-license I'd qualified as a coach when I was 20
00:14:45
21. which was unusual the reason I'd done that was because the coaching courses were
00:14:52
obviously full of really experienced managers feel a really lots of players trying to get into management the only
00:14:59
reason I went and done it was home that would become a better player I thought that if I went on these coaching courses
00:15:04
it'll help me become even better as a player and I had a I had a really good
00:15:08
career but not quite at the only level which uh I really wanted to be whose idea was that to go and do a coaching
00:15:15
course at 20 years old to improve yourself as a player uh my own because I thought that maybe I'd find out more
00:15:21
about it but I have to say there was a thing when we were we were young players we were when we were 16
00:15:27
bit Celtic we were sent to the courses to help the coaches so we were called the runners so we were down
00:15:34
here to do all the running you know you had to do all the running you had to be a feel bad you had to remember Midfield
00:15:39
player and you and all the practices were put on for the coaches and uh no Scotland had great great coaches at
00:15:48
the time you know people people at Sir Alex Jim McLean you know Walter Smith you know what I could go on and on
00:15:53
Scotland did brilliant coaches without naming the likes of jockstein and no bill shankly and and what you could
00:16:00
go on and on George Green for example so I I was sent down by Celtic and I was one of the runners for a couple years
00:16:07
and once I was down I said oh I want more of this I want to be around football people I loved listening to
00:16:12
them I hoped I would impress some of them who were who were managers of really big
00:16:17
clubs at the time and that's what I thought well no I'm gonna go and do my badges myself and
00:16:22
went on to went on to do them in Scotland well your time at Celtic um in the first team when you got signed there
00:16:29
was three years right you were in Celtic yeah yeah you then got to experience other
00:16:33
cultures and clubs but you you cite Celtic as having that sort of winning mentality that some clubs just have
00:16:40
where they're almost you know yeah they're just they get used they like develop the habit of winning
00:16:45
throughout your career you've been in clubs that have the habit of winning um but also clubs that maybe have
00:16:50
struggled in the opposite direction and don't have that culture of we always win
00:16:53
every game when you think about the clubs you've worked in that have that habit of winning like Celtic did what is
00:16:59
that how is where does that come from and what what does it look like and feel like
00:17:05
it it looks like you walk in every morning with your chest out in your head high
00:17:12
and you saw confident in what you're doing there's a a motivation to keep it
00:17:18
going not to let it drop there's a something about having to continue to improve to stay at the top that you
00:17:26
can't just do what you're doing which is going to keep you there forever you have
00:17:29
to keep trying to find a way of doing so I I did see that and I feel that and I've seen it at other clubs since
00:17:36
but I have to say I think on the journey to probably where I am today is probably more that
00:17:41
seeing a lot of the other side as well is actually the bit which you know I've
00:17:46
been a cop so I've been getting relegated I've been at cops but I can't
00:17:49
win I've been at clubs where you know it's not going well but it comes with us
00:17:53
you know it's it's not been as powerful as as say a couple at Celtic so I think I think you have to see a
00:18:02
all round for you to give yourself the best the best chance and I keep saying as you know
00:18:06
to do to get to become a football manager I don't think there's any one plan you
00:18:12
could be the best player on the planet and not become a football manager you could be someone who's never played
00:18:18
the game and become incredibly successful as a football manager so I don't think that's necessarily one way
00:18:23
you do it I'm really intrigued by this this idea of like cultures at clubs and
00:18:28
within teams and how you can just feel it almost when when a club has that momentum and they were winning team and
00:18:33
when they don't um on the on the country then when we're thinking about teams that are struggling
00:18:37
that aren't performing well um what are the signs of that now Rio said something really interesting was it real
00:18:44
wasn't Gary Gary Neville said something interesting to me he said that when he
00:18:48
was a um Manchester United Sir Alex Ferguson only came into the dressing training
00:18:53
ground dressing room twice and he said he never needed to come in there because the culture was in there
00:18:57
yeah so if like when Berbatov came over and wasn't fitting the culture the players would correct him he then says
00:19:02
when he went to QPR when the manager left the changing room everyone was talking about their wages
00:19:07
and where they're going next you could you can feel that like yeah there is a
00:19:12
difference I actually think the culture I mean that that team you're talking about
00:19:17
Manchester United where we had incredible players and you know I wouldn't say self-made because they had
00:19:22
they had a great manager but if you want now if I moved to just now I'd be seen
00:19:27
as just much more communication in life now I came from background it was really
00:19:32
tough the Scottish managers you know they probably the working background we came
00:19:37
from uh they they would be out screaming at you at half time they'd be screaming
00:19:43
you at the end of the game you know they would be there would be they'd be after you if
00:19:48
you didn't do well I don't think that culture's there and I don't think I
00:19:52
think it's changed completely in Scottish managers and if you look a bit Scottish money just probably over
00:19:56
history Scotland had lots of managers in English Premier League for example very few now and it might be that we're
00:20:04
having to change your culture so going back to a little bit where you're talking about Rio said get in there I
00:20:08
think there was a period where the players looked after themselves or they could take the hard hitting hair dryer
00:20:14
treatment if you want to call it that no I think it's a completely different
00:20:18
culture now whether we've changed or whether I feel as if management is not necessarily in that form I don't think I
00:20:28
don't know maybe you Steve you tell me even better your head of businesses would you go in and be screaming or
00:20:33
Bloom Lobster at your staff now do you know what the thing one of my actually I think is an advantage is I didn't grow
00:20:39
up in that culture yes so I've never known it I've never known the prospect
00:20:43
of like coming into work and like as you hear about it in some old businesses where like the CEO would come in and
00:20:49
throw things and throw the table over and stuff yeah I just never grew up in that environment I grew up in a sort of
00:20:54
a societal expectation that a manager is like you know might be tough and sometimes
00:21:00
but it's fairly nice yeah there's no like big glass office that I sit in away
00:21:04
from my team members it's a different world these days well as you relate you
00:21:08
were talking about there you said that it's kind of a different world in management you've been in you know the
00:21:12
job since you were I guess 20 in your early 20s you're 59 now I'm 59 and I've
00:21:18
probably been in management since I was early 30s or when I started and then so 25 30 years
00:21:26
um you talk about the change that you've seen in the approach that is effective
00:21:30
now what is effective now if if Once Upon a Time Scottish managers could come in and
00:21:36
hair dryer it and scream whatever whatever how is the approach changed in your view well let me tell you I
00:21:41
remember I remember one of the managers coming in to the dressing room and I always said is don't look up just
00:21:48
look at the floor look at your boots look down because if you catch his eyes he's going to come for you so so it used
00:21:54
to be don't woke up so that it couldn't have any eye contact with you and you
00:21:58
had to you know and you'd probably put your head in a towel so that he couldn't
00:22:02
see in an air because that was the way it was we were it was that and I think that I probably had a lot of that in me
00:22:09
when I first started but the difference now is as I think we're in a different and maybe maybe
00:22:17
yourself or maybe you'll understand it's a different era so as a coach and as a
00:22:21
manager and as a manner I think you need to find a way how you're moving on with
00:22:25
that or you'd be left behind and I've got to say I think in my position I've
00:22:29
got to admit I have to keep trying to uh keep up renew invest in more work and find out how it's going on there's so
00:22:38
many new things and it that don't get me wrong that doesn't mean that I've still
00:22:42
not got the bit of I can get in me when I think the players need it and I actually think that
00:22:49
I like not like it I think sometimes like I think I think people want to be told the truth
00:22:55
and I think one of the the worst things you can do to people is is I think if you keep praising people all the time
00:23:02
I think it makes you soft as well so I think there's a level of Praise You can
00:23:06
give people but I think you've also got to be really tough with your Trace as
00:23:09
well and I actually think that as I've got older I've become better and giving
00:23:13
praise I think there's some of my players I'm sure Everton would say that
00:23:17
I very rarely gave them praise because I I was always looking for better from them
00:23:22
you know over the last when I've been in business what 10 years or something
00:23:26
um not not as long as you in terms of management but um even I've started to
00:23:30
notice some like warning signs in people so like if I see this in the interview process I go uh well I've been I saw
00:23:37
this before and then it ended in this way like pattern recognition yeah you've
00:23:41
talked a lot about I've read a lot about your scouting process how you find great
00:23:44
talent great players what are the things you look for in the things that you consider to be warning
00:23:49
signs I always wanted someone who I thought was putting in effort okay I always thought that and they might say well how
00:23:58
can that come in front of many other things well I can think of many probably you and
00:24:03
you'll think of plenty of school boys friends who were truly talented player
00:24:07
but baby didn't weren't dedicated and put in the effort to didn't do the work
00:24:11
I think if you don't put the effort in the dedication to it then and the other
00:24:15
thing what I use a lot of is you know if you don't love the game completely then you'll probably find it really do I
00:24:21
think you'll find it really difficult to become a manager if you don't love the
00:24:24
game with or have real longevity I think you could be a player and maybe get through your your career 10 15 years as
00:24:31
a player with maybe without loving football but I think if you want to go longer I think you've badly got it love
00:24:37
love the business when I became manager of everything but I did it before I used to always meet
00:24:42
the players and I still do if I can you nearly wanted to see their eyes to see I need you to work hard I need you to
00:24:51
know to do this job for the team I'd like to see a you're going to take that
00:24:56
I'm going to be critical of you and I want you to get better are you happy with it you nearly wanted to put the
00:25:00
questions over to them to see if they were going to take it did you I did too many for us and I've I've got to say
00:25:08
we've had quite a few of the time which I've got to say who I've had in my house
00:25:12
who have had in uh offices and we've probably not taken them sometimes because a bit like you
00:25:19
said sometimes something just makes you go that's just not what I quite wanted
00:25:23
to hear and that might only be a gut and it might not it might have no reason to buy
00:25:30
some of the boys I'm talking about I've gone on to be Superstars and play for
00:25:33
another time but something at the moment can only give you that little bit of gut
00:25:36
feeling if you think it it sounds like it's going to fit for you I'm not saying you get it right but I
00:25:44
think at that time you have to have your own things were you say no I'm not going to
00:25:49
change this is what I want to do and I want to keep it this way and I some of I've missed out on some
00:25:54
how does that process work if you're looking let's say you're looking for a
00:25:56
striker what's the process you know because we've heard some I I don't mean
00:26:00
we're only understanding of like signing players is playing like football manager
00:26:03
on the on the PlayStation or whatever but I have in my head you have all these Scouts they produce reports yeah and
00:26:09
then do you know what position you want to fill do you go to the Scout or what happens uh I think you in the main the
00:26:15
scouts will probably bring them to you I mean look if it's somebody playing for
00:26:19
one of the teams locally or that and is available and you think there's a chance
00:26:22
then you'll probably try and do your homework you're trying you know obviously statistically you'll try and
00:26:27
get it right you'll try and look at the strengths and weaknesses you'll you'll
00:26:31
take any consideration maybe the price is going to cost where you think it's
00:26:35
you know where it fits in for you what you can do but the ones you don't know
00:26:40
are what you you're looking for your Scouts to bring to you and and quite a lot in modern footballs the agents are
00:26:45
bringing them you know because the agents are putting such a huge part no whether you see it as a positive or A
00:26:50
negative they're playing such a huge part behind the scenes in football at the moment
00:26:55
and these people will bring it obviously if you're trying to sell something you're always going to talk it up but in
00:27:01
the end you know we would or I would always try and get my Scouts to go through it they would probably say yes
00:27:05
this is what's coming and looking at come in we should we'll go and set more
00:27:09
we'll sit for a few hours watching if we wanted to take it even further then we would go into much further
00:27:15
detail would eventually probably start trying to find out people who know the boy or just played
00:27:21
with a boy and try and get a bit of his character background would try and find out more about
00:27:27
you know is he that is he the right type you know is he is he a good boy is he is
00:27:31
he a good trainer is he going to be disruptive in the training I think all those things are really really part of
00:27:37
it I don't think any I don't think any football manager wants people who are not going to fit in
00:27:43
in what was it and I guess again uh reverse back to business probably you're
00:27:48
the same and you don't want people here not going to fit in with what you've got
00:27:52
you want somebody who's going to come in and blend in and be part of it what was
00:27:55
your best ever signing ah but I always say Nigel Martin is saying Nigel Martin the
00:28:02
goalkeeper who was at Leeds United and he was on a free from Leeds United and we took him to Everton at the time
00:28:08
and it's only because he was a three but not only that he was a great goalkeeper
00:28:12
obviously he had been an England goalkeeper he was probably near at the end of the time but he gave me about
00:28:18
four or five years of stability but see when people talk about signing your best signing over the over the time
00:28:25
I've now been I've made that many signings I've got you know it would be
00:28:29
it's really pretty shame for me even in M1 because I've got so many that I could
00:28:34
I could see you don't have to I would not ask you to name your worst signing
00:28:38
but where have you frequently got it wrong when signing players you know what I think you do is I think
00:28:46
it's the ones I've missed the ones who you've said no I don't think is quite
00:28:50
good enough I think I'm gonna don't think I wanna and I've had hundreds of
00:28:54
them who's the one you missed the most that well just recently because it's
00:28:57
because because we've been talking about it you know we've been Alvarez who's just played for Argentina
00:29:03
in the World Cup you know was I I brought in a new Scout who says look you should go for Alvarez at River play
00:29:10
and I watched and I watched these are very good really good technician I thought he he done so many good things
00:29:16
as a center for a bit I thought maybe not quite the one we want maybe didn't
00:29:19
quite we had Mickey Antonio uh who had been doing very well I don't know if he's you know
00:29:25
and you see sometimes the players change in six months but I have to say there's
00:29:30
other other players like that who you don't take and don't go on to be a real
00:29:34
success but that one at the moment is just one because it was probably only a year ago where I decided nah I don't
00:29:41
think it's probably the one we're gonna take it's the same in business no matter
00:29:44
how many people you hire yeah it's always still guessing yeah and I was speaking to my friend Gary vaynerchuk
00:29:50
about this who's hired about 5 000 people and he said to me he says you know I've been in this game for 30 years
00:29:54
and I'm still just guessing because we can come up with all the principles and systems we want but how someone
00:30:00
people change but also how they present in an interview yeah can be drastically different to how they present in six
00:30:05
months time yeah when they're comfortable you know what which really interesting I'm asking you I I hear now
00:30:11
and I hear because there's so many jobs change in our our industry he says how do you pick a good football
00:30:18
coach now how would you pick a football manager whatever you want but how would you pick a good football manager no what
00:30:25
would give him the no the owners or the people who are doing it how are they picking it because again what I said it
00:30:30
says yes of course we can think of some real special people who would be would be in
00:30:36
that group but if you're you're a lesser Club trying to pick a new Talent when
00:30:40
you know why would you get it is he got the driver has he got the energy has he got the love for the game to to to stay
00:30:48
with it has he got an idea that he wants to go further and he's going to put the
00:30:52
work in it's really hard and sometimes you can't find them and I get the feeling it's the
00:30:56
same in Industry now as well yeah um yeah I I think the more I've hired The more I've realized that it's just
00:31:03
guessing which I think would people be surprised at because people think that you'll get progressively better or your
00:31:08
your confidence will will grow my confidence has actually Fallen with experience yes so so what that means for
00:31:14
me is that when I hire someone and I know it's not right just very quickly have to make a decision because the
00:31:20
worst thing is indecision right waking wasting too long that's it we have the
00:31:25
same situation we've talked about as we are buying players and we're and we're
00:31:30
spending a lot of money like you are and then you're saying is and you're saying
00:31:34
no but you can't do this but we don't think you can do that and and at times
00:31:37
maybe the older you get you would think this it becomes easier it actually becomes harder the more you're in it
00:31:43
because you've probably seen the good ones the bad ones yeah this is before this past they try and get a good one
00:31:48
but not so good anymore we're going to follow another parcel I've got to say no
00:31:53
hiring people and bringing them in is not an easy thing to do it's slightly different I guess in business because as
00:31:58
the CEO I in business usually get to make the decision about who you're hiring I mean
00:32:04
sometimes of course managers at low levels make make that decision but in football there's often a conversation
00:32:09
that the board or the owner has stepped in and has told you who to sign and who to buy
00:32:15
well I think that's one of the things really in football where you would say
00:32:20
laughs if if an owner was going to do that you say no come on it's not not right it is
00:32:26
it's part and parcel of football now it's Rife and football where a lot of
00:32:30
owners are making the signings instead of the manager has the owner ever asked you to sign a player uh yes yeah they
00:32:36
have yeah what did you say to them I've tried to say I've said no to you know
00:32:41
and I've said no it's not the way I do what no if the players are good I'd be
00:32:45
I'd be saying great bring me them in but then what we would do is if we get a
00:32:48
name of a player then we would try and do our homework and try and do other stuff and by the way we might be wrong
00:32:54
we're accepting that but if we follow the correct process or what we believe
00:32:58
is the correct process and it still comes out no we have to go with what we're saying now if the
00:33:05
process stays here by the way where he and he's a good player he's going lots
00:33:07
of goals he's you know he's young you know resellable if it doesn't work if
00:33:12
all those other points come up then we're saying oh wait a minute maybe we have to think about it but I think
00:33:17
really trusting your process and hoping that the longevity I've had will probably
00:33:24
hope that you've made more right decisions than wrong decisions by the time by the time you get around to making the
00:33:30
final decision I guess one of the things you can control which doesn't have to be
00:33:33
a guessing exercise is the culture that they join so the culture that they join is good then there's a higher chance of
00:33:39
them being successful as a player as a new signing I agree how do how do you do that at the clubs you're managing now
00:33:46
West Ham have you done that in the past to make sure the culture is right and what is that culture yeah
00:33:51
well I think I think for me the biggest one was when I when I was at West Ham the first
00:33:57
time we came and we thought we'd done a good job and we kept the team up we were
00:34:01
asked to come in we kept the team up and we didn't get the job and then another
00:34:05
manager came in and we were we were out of work for a year so then to be fair to
00:34:09
the owner David Sullivan he followed me about companies says would you come in and says yeah love to come back no
00:34:13
problem I felt I had to do a bit more at West Ham or had to try and I I keep using and I say it opening a I
00:34:23
want to build a new West Ham so what is a new West Ham mean well a lot of people
00:34:28
a lot of supporters might not like the sort of that but West Ham I've moved to
00:34:33
a new stadium it's not been it's not been appreciated by everybody but that's what we're going to be it
00:34:40
looks like for the next hundred years that's when it looks like the club's
00:34:43
going to be there so we need to make the best we possibly can of it you know I want to change the cut I want
00:34:48
you I want that to be a lot it's a young kid's Company West Ham East End of
00:34:51
London's a huge area former West Ham supporters a lot of poverty in the area West Ham
00:35:00
offer great ticket prices great opportunities they do brilliant work in the community West Ham in in EastEnders
00:35:06
one thing they really do and I want to encourage all the young kids now what do you need you need
00:35:13
exciting players so that these young kids want want to buy a jersey so that they're not following the top two or
00:35:18
three teams in the country and you want them to come so I I've tried to change
00:35:25
try to change the team but you know deep down I'd really like to say I'm trying to make West Ham
00:35:31
better and it used to always do other people when I was a manager I haven't managed
00:35:36
man united in other clubs before would say oh you get a flaky West Ham you know they're not not that reliable and you
00:35:42
don't know what West Ham team is going to turn up well I want to change that culture
00:35:48
there's so much room for improvement at West Ham you know I think it's got great
00:35:53
potential to improve and I I hope that you get I get the opportunity to keep it going with a
00:35:59
couple of really really good years uh success for West Ham there's been success and it's how we continue that
00:36:07
success now how we build on it and I think if you're if you're in business
00:36:12
I think you'll accept it you know you quite often you have a couple of years
00:36:16
or a good year and then you might not have it quite so good because we'll have
00:36:19
weird a little bit like that at the moment so I'm hoping that culturally I think we have changed
00:36:25
I've changed a load of things at West Ham we're not we're not milky we're not
00:36:30
flaky uh I think there's a different atmosphere in eastenda London regarding how people
00:36:38
see West Ham I I like the way we've done it but we've also got some exciting really exciting
00:36:46
young players who those young supporters I talked about could fall what are those next steps then if you
00:36:52
reflect back on what you did at Everton you took them from being that kind of you know happy to survive Club to a new
00:36:57
last I think your last eight years you finished in the top you lost seven years you finished one of the two yeah you
00:37:03
last eight years you finished in the top eight seven times yes or something along
00:37:07
along those lines um they became a consistent competitive team at the top top end of
00:37:13
the table when you look at where West Ham is now as we sit here in our 16th in the table
00:37:18
what is what are those but after two amazing years in the two previous years where West Ham were absolutely fireworks
00:37:24
to be fair dangerous very very dangerous team to to play against I'm not Manchester United fan so I remember like
00:37:31
the last two years have been really really um incredible for West Ham what are those steps forward now to get West
00:37:35
Ham to being that team that that is competing at the very top of the table and I find it so interesting that in
00:37:41
fact when you when you answer this question you don't just think oh we need to buy more players it's kind of more of
00:37:45
a holistic wider broader job that needs to be done yeah I I actually think that we we bought our players and I think
00:37:51
that you know I've gone out there and said that's what I'm doing but I think I sometimes I think in in
00:37:58
football not that you need to break it but we had a really good team for the last two years
00:38:03
but with a few Mark Noble was coming to them one or two other players were coming today and we had to change and we
00:38:07
were actually shortly numbers were really sure the players have done and I felt as if I nearly had to break up a
00:38:14
little bit because I had seen Signs Now my experience my longevity was telling me if I don't do this now then I'm gonna
00:38:23
feel I'm going to be caught out now we probably didn't do quite as well from
00:38:26
January on last year that was my feeling we had some brilliant nights we got this
00:38:31
semi-final European football no we had been challenging all years I mean we in the last game of the season we we
00:38:37
finished seventh but we were 10 minutes away from finishing six above Manchester
00:38:42
United you know uh so the the margins were incredibly small and all this but I felt that
00:38:51
now we might now with the age I'm the only saying is I don't really give a [ __ ] now I've got
00:38:56
to say I'm not going to get many more goes at this so if I don't make a go to
00:38:59
I don't really do what I think is right and what I want to do then I'll regret
00:39:04
it so this part of me said yeah we had to bring in new players and we've gone
00:39:08
out and we've put my head on the Block and said here we go brought these new players in
00:39:13
no what I really need is hope that I can get a little bit time to set on getting
00:39:16
them settled in I think we brought in good players I think we have got a better Squad
00:39:21
maybe not a better team at this exact time than what we had last year but we've definitely got better players
00:39:27
which are I believe will show that and in the coming months do you worry about that
00:39:32
um losing losing your job is that something that like sits and you might I I wouldn't in my
00:39:38
business I mean other than when I was at Social and I had a board of directors we're a public company so technically
00:39:43
they could fire me um it's not something that I think about like if I'm if I perform badly as an
00:39:49
executive the company goes down well what it says I think as a young manager I worried much more yeah I think
00:39:59
now in the in the position I'm in now and when I'm going I'll worry far far
00:40:04
less because it's in my blood I love the game I want to be here I'm enjoying what I'm doing
00:40:10
but it wouldn't be the end of the ass if something went wrong for me now where
00:40:14
I'm at but my pride my determination is that I want to be successful and I want
00:40:20
a I want to know be do a really good job for West Ham so but I think when you're younger if
00:40:27
you look now at Young managers young managers find it very difficult if you don't do well in your first job maybe
00:40:31
like business you know in business maybe you ever go and something fails nothing
00:40:35
quite what you're nearly tentative do you think I could go again maybe nobody
00:40:40
will help invest this may whatever it may be so it's so important you do get
00:40:45
it right when you do go and book them back to if I just have to because I want to visit
00:40:50
I think you need people who are really supportive at the start I had a great owner at Preston North End a couple of
00:40:55
great owners who really supported me uh when I went to West Ham I had great men who who helped me at that time as well I
00:41:04
think sometimes you need to be a bit lucky on your journey that you know if you turn up a club where an owner's
00:41:10
making the signings or you're not good he's only going to give you half a dozen
00:41:13
games to to show what you can do you're probably going to find it it's going to
00:41:18
be very difficult to succeed so maybe a bit lucky at the start but I worried much more when I was younger
00:41:24
than I would do now that success that you want the time to achieve at West Ham what what is that success what is the
00:41:32
goal for West Ham uh if we sat here in you know let's say 10 years five years
00:41:37
time that's too long in football these days five years time what's the what's
00:41:41
the goal I think we've been successful yeah I think West Ham have been successful in
00:41:46
the last two years and what you know really the one show the the great winners in the serial winners are the
00:41:53
ones who wants to get a better success all they want is more of it uh I'd love to be sitting here where and
00:42:00
bringing my trophies in here in front here and putting them up and saying here look at these trophies I've not got that
00:42:05
what have I got I've got periods of success and all my teams have done well we've got to Europe you know got to a
00:42:10
cup final here and there we've got to semi-finals so not everybody in the industry can
00:42:15
have success you know not everybody can know be what about with our medals and at the moment have not but I still
00:42:22
believe there's still a big chance that I can do that is that your kpi of success is that what you
00:42:28
it's probably not now it's not now because I actually think staying in the job wouldn't be a bit
00:42:37
longevity is a really important thing in anyone if you can stay in it and you can
00:42:40
it's no it's a big thing it's showing that you've done a good enough job
00:42:45
but you know Avida I've been fortunate enough with a few manager of the Year
00:42:48
Awards over over the years you know last few years have been nominated for it but
00:42:53
I've said many times I'd swap it for one of Jose mourinho's lemon Meadows if I
00:42:57
got the chance you know or one of these trophies all day long so that's still got to be what I'm driving
00:43:04
to do now well not gone forever because I'm getting older and I don't want to be
00:43:09
as old as Sir Alex or Roy hodgin when they finish those sort of people but but I still get the energy I still get the
00:43:16
drive I feel as if I've got a good team and I feel as if I'm still capable of of
00:43:21
keeping up with those younger ones quick one we are lucky enough to have Intel sponsoring this podcast and in previous
00:43:26
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from our longest standing sponsor hero I I can't tell you over the last I'd say
00:44:17
over the last really it's been about two and a half years it was really um post
00:44:20
pandemic how much my health has become such a huge priority in my life and I have this laser laser focused on what
00:44:27
I'm putting into my body it's funny because as you get older you can start
00:44:29
to feel the things you're putting into your body more and more and more um and if I if I put something into my
00:44:34
body especially things like gluten if I put those things in my body I feel them tremendously the next day my energy
00:44:39
levels my sleep and everything in between huel has been probably the most important partner in my health Journey
00:44:46
because I've been in the boardrooms I've been to their offices tens and tens and tens and tens of times
00:44:52
I've seen how they make their decisions on nutrition and I trust it most of my
00:44:57
team that are in this room with me consume it and get the benefits of it too so if you haven't already tried your
00:45:02
do so Alex sure Alex there's been a lot said about Sir Alex I talk about him a lot
00:45:08
because I've interviewed so many of his former players um there was a lot of rumors that he
00:45:13
went to your house and asked you to become the manager of Manchester United no he took me to his house oh he took
00:45:19
you to his house yeah and actually a I'll tell you story Steve is I it wasn't
00:45:25
long after I turned 50 my wife had bought me a watch and actually we had gone through to Manchester too
00:45:32
to the Jaws I needed to get a link taken out and uh it was actually an altering on by
00:45:39
all places I was in altering them and uh the phone rang and it was a it was Sir Alex and I saw the way I says
00:45:48
oh bloody hell it's Alex on the phone and I thought oh he's gonna he's gonna
00:45:54
need one one of my players or he's going to want me to take one of these players
00:45:56
which no he's he's coming on he says something and he and he said hey where are you
00:46:03
I I see something I'm in Manchester he says uh well right come out to the house
00:46:07
when you're ready will you said and that's a person Alex accent probably so good
00:46:15
and uh I see his sister wife I can't do it I'm in my jeans I couldn't
00:46:23
go Easter Alex with a pair of jeans on it's no way so I'm saying oh what am I going to do
00:46:28
don't you Marks and Spencers and buy a pair of trousers you know so she said oh can we go just
00:46:35
go and get on me and do it so anyway drop my wife off at the shopping center and I drove out to Sir Alex's house
00:46:42
and and he went I went in and he says then you come and uh very nice house and he's got a lovely
00:46:53
sort of room Sports room up the stairs and he says what a cup of tea says I took up a cup of tea
00:46:58
and he and he said I'm retiring and you're the next manager of Manchester United
00:47:07
no interview no no telling me not saying would you like to be no I'm retiring and I nearly slipped
00:47:17
down it was a it was a lesson I nearly slipped down because obviously that was nobody knew that sir Alex was retiring
00:47:23
nobody knew no nobody even suggested I thought about it and I nearly slipped down when I heard
00:47:29
them say that and then he says and you're the next manager of Manchester United
00:47:34
and I just sort of went yeah well no okay I wasn't gonna I wasn't going to
00:47:38
turn around I didn't think I would ever say nowhere I could I don't even know I
00:47:41
was in a position to say no and uh and that was as simple as that we got underway he said
00:47:48
and there was only maybe and to be fair it was only four weeks to go to the end of the season maybe five
00:47:54
weeks to go to the end of the season I was coming out of contract to Everton and I was really wanting to be
00:48:00
respectful to them and actually my next game was against Liverpool uh on this Sunday I think I met Sir Alex
00:48:08
in the midweek on the Wednesday or something on the Sunday and I knew that if we had got a draw
00:48:12
with Liverpool we would probably finish above them in the league and it was at anfield and we did we get a drop and we
00:48:18
we did finish up off them so it didn't have any effect on on what I was doing
00:48:22
at Evan but the big the big thing was to say and then the next day said uh I want you to
00:48:27
come back to my house tomorrow uh uh Edward was going to come and see he's going to be the new chief executive who
00:48:34
he says David gills uh leaving as well and that was it and I met Edward won the next day and then the next day back to
00:48:42
his house again we met the glazers and so it was three days three days where I dropped back to his house the
00:48:51
the biggest problem I had was he said and you can't tell MD about me retiring
00:48:59
he says nobody knows that's no promises tell your wife but nobody else I couldn't tell my kids I couldn't tell my
00:49:05
dad I couldn't tell my dad that I was going to get the job but I was getting the job
00:49:10
so that that for me was how it happened and when I wrote back now to get that offer from probably arguably
00:49:19
uh the greatest the greatest manager maybe there ever was was a great compliment
00:49:24
uh but maybe if I'd really looked in more detail and more depths in in I was
00:49:32
desperate to be successful as a manager and I had had 11 years at Everton where we said weeds
00:49:38
would say we'd hit the glass ceiling but we would find it really difficult to
00:49:41
break into the top four the competition and the money was required but my biggest regret was uh I was so
00:49:48
close to Bill Ken right the owner at Everton and I and I couldn't tell and it felt
00:49:53
and it was really bad that I couldn't tell him because I was so close to Bill
00:49:58
but I couldn't break my word without Sir Alex said he didn't want me to tell it
00:50:01
so I couldn't tell MD about my wife so jump back in the car drove back to the
00:50:07
shop mall shopping center got the wife put her in the car and I said something new manager Man United
00:50:15
and she was like well you got piss off your top rubbish you know so uh that was it and that was how it went
00:50:22
you were coming to the end of your contract with Everton at the time what was your plan you hadn't signed a
00:50:28
contract so you must have been I hadn't been I had I have to say as I had been
00:50:33
I think I would my plan was probably to stay at Evan we just hadn't got it done
00:50:37
in for different reasons I was wanting to see how it was going but I have to say I'd I'd met a couple
00:50:43
other clubs I'd met a couple of really big clubs who'd approached me and phoned
00:50:47
me and spoke to me you know what was I doing would I be interested the truth is I don't think I'd have I'd
00:50:53
have left for any of them because everyone had been so good to me but I was also wary about overstaying
00:51:00
your welcome at Evan you know sometimes just in management supporters won't change they want to want to try
00:51:06
something different and and I get it I'm a huge football supporter you know if I
00:51:11
wasn't managing I'd be watching football and I'd be you know probably talking
00:51:14
about it like everybody else does but uh I you know it came up I've got a chance to
00:51:22
manage probably the biggest cup in the world I'm falling a club who always give their managers
00:51:30
time they gave Sir Alex time and also that their values were no they played young players Man United
00:51:38
I always thought man united never went out and tried to buy the best on the market and they never went to the went
00:51:44
they never went to this sort of designer shop to buy the best thing in the designer shop they bought correctly they
00:51:49
bought young players they bought you know you look at the Players they had which they come through from Becks and
00:51:55
the Neville's and all the other ones who came through they always did something a bit a bit of
00:52:00
style about them they never went out to get the best overseas manager in the world they picked which fitted their
00:52:05
model so I actually felt when Ceramics offered me the job in Manchester United who had
00:52:10
given me the job I felt they thought I must have been the best choice for the job at that time and they saw that and
00:52:16
also maybe not similar but similar in a way that maybe there was a similar background a
00:52:22
similar upbringing a similar route maybe to to get to the point so I trusted Manchester United I really did adjusted
00:52:30
them because of what they stood for as a football club you know many times um when you're
00:52:36
successful as you were at Everton you're given big opportunities it's the same in
00:52:39
business people come to me and give me these huge opportunities and sometimes like the bright bright lights of the
00:52:44
opportunity have often caused me to make a wrong decision or not to take you know
00:52:50
take the right amount of due diligence as you described they're like not really
00:52:53
looking into the details because it's such a big thing that you almost can't
00:52:55
say no to it you said there that you wish you'd looked a little bit closer with the details what do you mean by
00:53:00
that well I'll tell you who told me was uh Howard Wilkinson said to me down the
00:53:07
line I wish you'd told me before he says all the managers over the dynasty so
00:53:12
when you look at it uh I think it was Brian cough was one of them I think the other one was Sir Bobby Robson all the
00:53:18
managers who had the real uh Dynasty and transdently United managers as well uh don ravey maybe as well I
00:53:26
think it was MD who followed them never worked no I never even thought for a minute
00:53:34
because I I thought to myself no I'll come in and and I actually was thinking I'm not
00:53:40
changing I'm going to try not to change much of it so I said of course I have to
00:53:44
change it it's not Ceramics it's me and I have to do it my way and I have to try
00:53:47
and do a little bit but ultimately uh I was going to keep it going but then I'm
00:53:52
gonna when I look back at the things what I heard I thought my goodness have I looked a bit closer and maybe even now
00:53:58
I'm a bit older now than I was when I get the job maybe maybe even I needed even more experience and
00:54:06
maybe even I had it at that point maybe we'd be more ready at this period in my
00:54:10
career than I was even saying no don't know what it was eight or nine years ago
00:54:13
whenever it was so if they called you now well you know they've got a really good
00:54:20
manager I think and I think I think the the thing about Manchester United Manchester United have of chosen
00:54:25
incredibly good managers yeah rubber with some of the best managers some of the best managers you could ever imagine
00:54:31
I've been I've been at Manchester United so you know sometimes you've got to say
00:54:36
you know if you're if you're quite bright I'm sure you are with a business
00:54:40
you're working it's not always the boss's fault it just doesn't this
00:54:43
doesn't go right so like I I took over at a difficult time you know it was quite a few senior players probably
00:54:51
coming to near the end of their time but I also have to say I was really proud I
00:54:55
took over the Champions England when when that was a time and that was I'm saying what a chance I've got you know
00:55:00
maybe the opportunity to win trophies the opportunity to be successful and it was the thing I was probably missing
00:55:07
from a time at event that I wasn't quite getting close enough to to winning trophies would you would you Eric ten
00:55:13
hog aside I think he's great I think we both agree there but would you ever be
00:55:16
open to coming back to Manchester United in the future if they they'd asked uh
00:55:20
well I don't think it would ever be it would ever been a role as a manager that's for sure so that my time's gone
00:55:24
but you know if ever I always love to be involved in football and hopefully somewhere along the line someone will
00:55:31
want to use my experience when my time's up with we've been a football manager
00:55:35
but uh Manchester United is a great experience and a and I found it difficult to sort of have have something
00:55:41
which could sort out I don't know how it would I would sort of put over what it meant and the only
00:55:47
way I could put it out is I think when you manage man united it's like living
00:55:51
in the penthouse and looking out you know and until you've had the penthouse and you're looking out and
00:55:56
you're above everybody and you're looking over you see the view much better and uh for me they were the
00:56:01
penthouse one of the big things that did change at Manchester United and I only know this because I had a season ticket
00:56:06
the ladies and the the men that serve you the food in like the hospitality suite or whatever they always have a
00:56:11
great relationship with them and they would tell me things about how the club was maybe before I could add enough
00:56:15
money to buy a season ticket one of the things they always said was the role that David Gill had on the club as well
00:56:20
yeah people don't think understand that enough but David Gill was the CEO of the
00:56:24
club yeah and I mean I've seen in my own businesses when the CEO me was removed
00:56:30
how much it was a completely different place and people don't understand that
00:56:33
because as fans we look at the manager and think ah but if the managers in my business
00:56:37
are very very very important but the person above them has the most power and the most control in the most way is the
00:56:44
CEO now that changed and the the wonderful people at Manchester United would tell me that well when David Gill
00:56:51
was here he knew all of our names and that really struck me that like he knew all of our names he knew all of our
00:56:56
birthdays we used to see him now we don't see yeah Ed Woodward anymore we don't see the chief Executives anymore
00:57:02
they don't know our names that's a real sign of a cultural change definitely
00:57:06
just think of the values with that is yeah the values of the CEO sending your Buster card or I don't know and I mean
00:57:14
like if we I would be incredibly complimentary if it said Alex said Alex would fall out managers who had lost a
00:57:19
job or managers who had been successful he phoned me up when we were doing very well at West Ham six months ago whenever
00:57:25
it was it they were always correcting and when you think of values of what it means to
00:57:31
be at the top and what the things small things which matter those things really matter but for me
00:57:37
I was taking over the club I'd lost David Gill who I knew very well from different things and working with them
00:57:44
at UEFA and different things as well and he was a huge huge Miss but that wasn't
00:57:49
to say that the new CEO wasn't he was to be giving every chance and I wanted to
00:57:53
help him and he wanted to help me ultimately it didn't work that way you said you trusted the club to give to
00:58:00
give you long enough do you feel like that trust was let down yeah I do a bit because I feel that you know
00:58:07
I think that if you're putting in a new manager you're hoping that you're going to give
00:58:13
them and look at least a very stable job in a very good environment to come and do it and obviously
00:58:18
no I think when you when we look back you would say hey there was a huge change going to have to take place at
00:58:23
Manchester United after Sir Alex and maybe ideally I think it was we were going to try and make it seamless where
00:58:29
there wasn't going to be too big a change but there's a lot of players changing uh you know getting to an age
00:58:34
where there were no having to move on there was actually a big Squad of of players who had been incredibly loyal to
00:58:40
Sir Alex and suddenly they've got new managers coming in the door maybe not playing them as much so they
00:58:46
don't have quite the same sort of coarseness to to him and still building up relationship so I think
00:58:53
there was I think there was a lot of that and it made it difficult but you know the the thing I I look back at
00:58:58
business in in you're a very successful businessman always think you have to give bad news well
00:59:08
because you're the boss and you run a really big business like Manchester United did and I think if you've got any
00:59:16
class or any style it's good when you get off off the job and then you give them when you give
00:59:22
them all they and you talk about also but I think when you're having to get bad news out I think even bad news has
00:59:28
to be done in a good way as well and I felt the way that the I was told at the same time at
00:59:35
Manchester United wasn't done as well as it should have been done uh but the way
00:59:39
that you were told you weren't going to be manager yes you know it was there was
00:59:42
there was ways it could have been done better and it could be made a lot easier than what it was no
00:59:47
I've heard this from former players I've heard former players tell me that they
00:59:50
were really disappointed by how the club um specifically Edward wood gave them their send-off I think it was I think it
00:59:57
was Rio that said to me that like just came into the dressing room tapped me on the shoulder and told me that this was
01:00:01
my last game or that they were selling me or something and that doesn't pay respect no two no it doesn't and I
01:00:08
actually think that Looking Back Now hey you think to yourself hey it's life got
01:00:12
on me you know that's the way it is when you're you know you're in you're in an
01:00:15
industry or you're in you do that but I still think that uh I think if you're
01:00:20
the biggest one of the biggest sport businesses in the world if not the biggest you would hope that you would do things
01:00:27
correctly like David Gill would sound speak and say hello to them or light they would send a birthday card so the
01:00:33
same should happen if you were telling somebody that you were you were stopped number you're sacking them or you're
01:00:38
getting rid of them you would hope they would do it the best way they could how did how did you find out
01:00:43
uh media oh really media phone in me yeah lost a couple I get it lost the game at Everton actually in the media
01:00:51
was saying I know you're losing your job and you know I I try to make contacts and
01:00:57
and say like why don't we meet up you think you're going a bit it didn't certain before I knew they
01:01:03
called me and the day after and by this time the whole world had known about it before I'd sort of get you know got to
01:01:09
know so sometimes I think people want to want to get it done right and I just didn't feel
01:01:13
it was right but anyway from my point of view uh I generally don't have any real I don't
01:01:22
know if I gripe about it because the industry I'm in uh means that this can happen quite often
01:01:28
and you don't get things done the way you want it you have to live with it and
01:01:31
and that's the way it is in the wake of that how does um what does it look like
01:01:36
at home this is probably one of the most interesting things that I personally pondered throughout that period as a
01:01:41
Manchester United fan which is when you go from the penthouse and then the the landlord evicts you from the penthouse
01:01:48
after I don't know 10 10 11 months at the club the what the weight of Manchester United
01:01:53
you know it's the most talked about Club it's the club that sells the headlines
01:01:57
it gets all the clicks so every it must feel like everything is about you in the
01:02:02
world of football and it's like a very public apparent failure at home you've got wonderful wife Pamela
01:02:09
you've got two kids what's it like at home I think I think personally you're a
01:02:17
little bit shame because you've not done done well you know you're not done well for your
01:02:22
family so I think personally I felt I'd let them all down because you know I I'd really
01:02:28
what like I said if nobody probably the hours and the work I'd put in as a young I didn't believe I was
01:02:34
ever going to be a coach never mind the coach of Manchester United but the hours
01:02:38
of work had put in it got me to a level where I'd worked and I'd done an awful
01:02:41
lot of hard work behind the scenes over the years on day than to lose it so quickly so you
01:02:47
get a job and I said at that time I had two or three really really big co-ops who were were talking about me speaking
01:02:54
to me but when Sir Alex came and made me the offer it was very hard to say no and then for that to go very quickly so
01:03:00
it was a bit like getting to top up Everest and then actually starting to decline very quickly so from my point of
01:03:06
view it was hardkin home you know it was difficult uh but I've got to say it's a bit like
01:03:13
my mom used to just say hey whatever happens you just have to get up and go on with it you know you're on with it
01:03:18
you'd be taking the chin and you got away and you know sort of sticks and stones don't worry too much about it but
01:03:24
you're right when your manager of Manchester United you talked about in every continent every country you'll
01:03:30
either be in the front of the back page it's one of the papers so but that's also the privilege of being a
01:03:36
manager of Manchester United as well what's the what's the toll of that if
01:03:41
you were to warn me about the time I think the tool for someone who cares deeply about their profession and
01:03:48
wants to be successful and wants to do well the toll for me personally time felt felt big it really did
01:03:56
and it's probably it probably took me a wee bit to get back on the road a little
01:04:01
bit without saying about a watch really after I lost the job I said well I'm
01:04:04
going to have to go and try and reinvent find out more new things no keep keep current where can I go to find
01:04:11
out what's going on you know and I obviously couldn't go back to Old Trafford to watch a game where I
01:04:17
couldn't really go back to to a gooderson and watching him so it made it quite difficult but I found myself doing
01:04:24
quite a bit of work for UEFA I'd done all the Champions League games which was
01:04:27
really good day and and I spoke in all the pro license courses for the coaches which kept me current and having to keep
01:04:35
up to date with things so those those type of things kept me kept my education and kept my knowledge and kept me going
01:04:42
a bit better I still think that when you when you you've been at one of the big clubs it's
01:04:47
always a Miss because you realize the the level they're at you said that the
01:04:51
toll is big in a very practical real sense what does that mean is it sleepless nights is anxiety is it
01:04:58
yeah yeah I'm someone who sleeps really well to be honest but I do think that
01:05:05
it's very difficult when you when you lose your job in in our business you know you've talked about a lot so you
01:05:11
have to accept it and I'm a part of it you will be as well or if things go wrong or any of your
01:05:16
businesses feel you'll be you'll be current no people will have criticism
01:05:20
but I think if you're going to go into football management then you have to find a way of saying how they deal with
01:05:26
it how am I going with it what's my mechanism uh I remember thinking when things weren't
01:05:33
going so well at Manchester United you know I'd be driving any training so I couldn't put on Talk sport I
01:05:40
couldn't put on Radio 2 I couldn't put the words on in them but yeah so I thought I'll put on
01:05:47
uh whatever music it was and they come on and he was never talking about me on that news as well so
01:05:52
oh my goodness is this ever going to end is it is there a channel it isn't talking about Manchester United in some
01:05:57
way but that was because it was getting closer to probably when I wasn't doing
01:06:01
so well and there's a lot of talk about it but uh I think you just have to find a way of
01:06:06
shutting yourself off from it the best you can but the world we're in now for young
01:06:10
coaches of social media if you if that's what your your world is or or how you
01:06:15
present yourself it's much different now and uh in days gone by in the early days at Preston I look at
01:06:24
the I look at the newspaper and there'd be a letter page and there'd be four or five supporters
01:06:29
saying why is moy's not playing him you know and what's he doing and that used to be
01:06:35
where the criticism was mainly coming from as you well know now now there's a
01:06:40
world of it outside I am I got to play a um the London Stadium I'll create it's not called London
01:06:47
Stadium isn't it yeah it's called the Lindsay and awesome chat to Karen Brady
01:06:51
once a while I'm seeing her soon um and uh I met someone while I was at the soccer Aid experience who happens to
01:06:59
be a family member of a player a big Premier League player who has taken more abuse than any other player maybe over
01:07:09
the last year and I met a family member and I got a chat to them and um they told me about the toll it's taken on the
01:07:16
whole family and you never think about that but that was actually one of the most important things I think I
01:07:21
experienced was hearing from someone's younger sister that watching that older
01:07:26
brother be abused how horrific is she was almost in tears because you know if you and my dad and I watched that happen
01:07:34
to you yeah well I have to say you know and it's like I don't think of them I'd
01:07:39
only a week half that I watched the man united job my dad did a heart attack yeah and it was but it was a triple
01:07:46
bypass so I'm not saying it was because of when I left Manchester United but
01:07:50
that was that was the case and it hey who knows who knows if it would then we we don't really think that was the
01:07:58
reason behind it we think it was just coming on but so there is tolls which are taking in families of course there
01:08:04
is but thankfully my dad's doing well and it's still going well just now
01:08:08
something we didn't think about you know and people will say to to you and people
01:08:11
like you and players they'll say well your payloads of money so behave yourself yeah just deal with it yeah
01:08:15
yeah but that's but then the kids aren't as there is part of it and actually I I
01:08:21
do think many many times I think myself is you know do people understand it we'll get a family you know uh I I made
01:08:28
this the other day is I was saying to a friend of sinners as a manager I think as you get older you no in business
01:08:35
you're you're older you you think you get more experience than you're you know
01:08:40
doesn't make it any better when I was a young manager if I lost the game I would come home
01:08:47
go straight to my bed peel the curtains and not wake up to Sunday morning no trying and I might not sleep I just
01:08:54
didn't really want any I didn't have any I didn't really talk with my wife too
01:08:58
much I didn't really talk to my kids I wasn't I wasn't unpleasant I just wanted
01:09:01
to be on my own done that the opposite then was if you won on a Saturday I'd come home and say come on let's get
01:09:09
ready let's let's nip up to the restaurant and we'll get a bit of dinner
01:09:12
and a couple glasses of wine and I used to always call it the the Saturday night feeling I'm desperate to
01:09:18
get that Saturday night feeling I'm desperate to have that feeling when you have one in a Saturday knowing that
01:09:23
Mainland is Sunday you're picking up the newspapers and the newspapers are saying
01:09:26
you've won and you're you're going well but and I thought maybe by the time I get to
01:09:32
the Aging over a thousand games and I'll be seeing myself this is going to be
01:09:36
much much feel much easier not at all just as bad I'm not saying I'm going home every every night I was
01:09:41
now and pulling the Cottons and going straight to bed but it's to just sort of
01:09:45
tell you how how the game is the game is actually nearly completely how important
01:09:50
they're winning and backed it I said when the upbringing was where find a way of winning win means that I
01:09:56
have more good Saturday night feelings than I do go home and put on the continents and
01:10:01
going straight to bed yeah I don't think about that you know you know when you you said something a
01:10:06
second ago which is you know you'd you'd reached what I consider to be the very top of the game
01:10:11
managing Everton because I think about how many tens of thousands of managers there are coaches out there that are you
01:10:18
know on the Sun the Sunday League pitches and all around the country that are aspiring to manage in the Premier
01:10:23
League it's insane it's an insane insane achievement um you manage to evidence you went to
01:10:28
Manchester United didn't go well in that period after even though you're at the
01:10:31
very top of the game did you doubt yourself in a post Manchester United uh by my pause might make you think yes but
01:10:44
I didn't doubt that I was actually I felt that I could do do the job I could
01:10:48
be good at it I felt as if I could I my work on the grass was was good enough to
01:10:55
for where I had been I had success years before so I was always trying to say it
01:11:00
didn't go quite well this 10 months why did it not go well was it how romani's
01:11:04
was it how I coached was it maybe I didn't have the right players I had to try and look to see why there is
01:11:10
but the other part of the 10 or 11 years I'd seen some great players that had
01:11:14
been in FA Cup finals I'd I'd got to qualifying as a European competition
01:11:18
wherever and we'd we'd qualify for the Champions League one year so I was
01:11:22
thinking as well was I going to make say that was all no good then the years would have done it so I think once I put
01:11:27
it in perspective then I says no I'm not I'm not doubting it but what I do think
01:11:31
is I think I think most days you have to get up and be ready to sort of challenge
01:11:38
yourself every day I don't I don't think you can go to bed every morning and
01:11:41
think hey this is fine you know I'm I'm doing okay here I think every day you're
01:11:46
sort of get up and seeing as you know how am I going to try and be better how can I make people better what am I how
01:11:51
can I make a difference today with what I've got paranoid almost yeah near enough near enough to an extent what
01:11:56
you're saying there's no I can't no you folks say do you bring your work home
01:12:01
I I really think if you're in if you're in the boss if you're the boss
01:12:06
you're always bringing your work home because it's not you're not just taking
01:12:09
putting your head off and saying I'm leaving that in the office and I'll pick
01:12:12
it up in the morning I think very really you're doing that I think that's just
01:12:15
life of your if you're a CEO or a boss I very much agree I very much agree with
01:12:21
that idea of taking the working and also when things don't go wrong in hindsight
01:12:25
everybody's quick to diagnose why I didn't go wrong um has the subsequent 10 years where
01:12:30
everyone is failed at Manchester United felt good because everyone has failed Jose's
01:12:37
failed van Hal went there you went there um I'm missing someone I think I'm
01:12:41
missing someone I mean Ollie was in it Ollie was in he failed as well so that's
01:12:46
you know five or six great great managers who you couldn't make it work at Manchester
01:12:51
United for whatever reason so I think time has almost been good to you in terms of your yeah the
01:12:57
story of the time like I'm I I I get huge respect for uh Josie Mourinho huge result for Louis van Gaal you know
01:13:07
all he was new and is one of one of Manchester United's own so was always going to be given every opportunity to
01:13:12
try and make it work as well so I think that I think there's been some great
01:13:17
managers coming into Manchester United I think the biggest problem for Manchester United is Manchester City
01:13:23
how do we I'm a Manchester United fan season ticket holder how from your experience do we get things back to how
01:13:31
they were I think you'll need to probably get rid of Pep somehow I think that's my that's what we uh I think I
01:13:42
think papers I think there is some managers I think but you must have an unbelievable perspective better than me
01:13:48
at like what because you knew Fergie you knew the club everything you've been
01:13:52
inside it what what do we need to do to get back to I think Manchester United different
01:13:59
principles and than most of the other clubs looked at their use a lot uh didn't
01:14:06
always sign maybe the as I said before maybe the the top yeah Diamond always sort of picked and picked out good
01:14:13
players who improve and now and again went and bought a Canton over so often or uh by nistel Roy or Van Percy at
01:14:20
different times you know uh so at different times they they bought really good players at Good Times this is
01:14:26
actually a really good point because we've also bought some world-class places and they've all failed yeah so
01:14:32
there is it there is something about Manchester United had their own way but because of the competition which came in
01:14:36
from Manchester City uh Chelsea probably more in the in the earlier years I think those two clubs I
01:14:43
think I think Liverpool have have an incredible pier and get a really good manager as well and top players
01:14:49
I think over the year Man United and Liverpool have always had a level of competition against each other people
01:14:54
say we've not spent money in terms of players we've spent shitloads of money
01:14:57
we spent almost a billion huge whatever huge and all these players I remember the foul cows the demerick because I get
01:15:03
excited every time and I celebrate and I start you know blowing up my friends WhatsApp chats and saying you're screwed
01:15:07
we're going to win the league yeah and then every year the player fails and then the managers sacked yeah so it
01:15:12
feels like a bit of a it's the expectation of the excitement on the new players coming in I get this all the
01:15:19
time and I say this quite a lot too people are here in media you know it's on a bit oh you need to buy new players
01:15:25
no we buy new players and I said I I would really like football to be where money was not always going to be
01:15:32
the key to you know we think the more players you see the more money you spend uh means that you win the league or
01:15:38
you're successful and look I think it probably will prove that it is but I'd rather see that you know
01:15:43
sometimes that it's not that way and I just do think that quite often you know not buying all the
01:15:49
top players it doesn't mean that you have to buy the top but I think it's
01:15:52
buying good players and people who get good characters and people who are going to gonna work hard for the team and then
01:15:58
they come into that culture which makes one makes yeah which makes the difference
01:16:04
of that year yeah less than the year they had was was probably what we're all
01:16:09
hoping for whether it be us and now you've seen other clubs I mean actually Newcastle United for example
01:16:14
Newcastle United bought a couple of uh with respect to three or four English players last January British players uh
01:16:22
probably not necessarily on the radar of the biggest clubs in the country and it and and they've turned around and
01:16:28
they've had a great they've had an incredible momentum from probably January last year and maybe just before
01:16:33
January and are keeping that momentum going and now they're bringing in the Reddit in the odd bigger star or the
01:16:39
bigger players as they go along but I thought the business at the start was very good if I'm one of your players in
01:16:45
your dressing room to be a David Moyes player at West Ham and what would from a character and a
01:16:51
personality standpoint your expectation be of me so that I fit into the culture and I'm
01:16:57
successful I'd want you to be I'd like you to be hard working I want you to be honest in your endeavor
01:17:07
I I know I'd want you to do your jobs whatever you want I want you to be a team player
01:17:12
the individuals are really important and no more hugely important we've just seen
01:17:16
in the World Cup individuals but but I I do think that I I think to have a consistency about your teamers
01:17:24
you need to have a team I think if you've got individuals you might get inconsistency but you may get
01:17:30
some really good days and where you get Club so you can afford to carry one or two individual players who go along but
01:17:36
I think well you're trying to build build I think you have to start with a really solid base good foundation and
01:17:43
then from that point you try and grow Pamela you met her at a disco yeah she was lucky
01:17:53
yeah so I keep telling them it's uh most people disagree she's been through it all with you you
01:18:01
know the everything she's followed you around for decades and supported you in
01:18:07
many many ways and um I've heard about the sort of dynamic in your relationship
01:18:11
where she's been really really supporting you kind of do a lot of it together you're there for each other
01:18:15
tell me in your own words what like uh what she means to you I guess well it's the sort of thing you ask that
01:18:22
question you'd probably get emotional if you start saying that so I'm going to
01:18:25
say that before I start uh look my wife has been unbelievable towards me because I remember when we
01:18:32
were young at about what we said is we didn't earn great money I wasn't I
01:18:36
wasn't a hugely wealthy footballer when I was getting paid but I wanted to play football and
01:18:41
would have taken away so Pamela worked as well and we had to opt to pay the mortgage
01:18:48
when we were together we were there so we're it was very much that a together
01:18:52
at the start how we could sort of have a family how we could we could work together
01:18:57
and I remember saying to her I said no I I might need to be a football coach and
01:19:01
I remember when we were courting I said look I'll need to go to coaching course and I
01:19:05
might not be here and I need to I want to try and go and see her it doesn't remember saying no problem you're going
01:19:09
to do what you have to do and if I wasn't given that freedom in nearly years to say good
01:19:15
coaching courses I mean I went out to see enchilada ACI Moana I went to the World Cup uh
01:19:23
and I have to say you know I remember I went to the World Cup and I and because I didn't have like somebody at the time
01:19:28
and and we weren't skinned but we didn't have loads of in the PFE helped fund me
01:19:33
so I think at the time the PFA helped fund me get to the World Cup to go and watch I remember writing to
01:19:40
I wrote to about five or six countries and said you know could I come and watch your training
01:19:45
and none of them replied the only country I replied was Scotland and Craig Brown was a manager now I was a Scottish
01:19:51
coach and worked in and not and I was still young at the time and they invited me to come and watch training school and
01:19:57
none of the other teams did but my wife let me get away and get on with it and try and seek and find out what I needed
01:20:04
to do probably in the hope that somewhere after my football career was finished that I might have been able to
01:20:11
do something else but she was she still has a great inspiration to me uh and show my kids my kids are good kids
01:20:19
and you know good family and it's really important to me what role has she played
01:20:24
Pamela in the in the harder times in your career you know I think I think when you're when you're a football
01:20:36
manager you're going to have hard times so undoubtedly it's a hard time's been a football
01:20:41
manager hey hard times sometimes mean you get sacked and you get you get some money for leaving the job you can look
01:20:46
at that and say hey he's okay with that but it's not you've got Pride you know
01:20:50
as I said yeah I was probably losing a job I was more an embarrassment I felt embarrassed
01:20:56
from from a family really that you know they were getting talked about they were
01:21:01
getting looked at no people were shouting now your dad's lost his job or whatever it may be at that
01:21:06
time so my wife's just always stood by me and really supported me whenever it comes to
01:21:13
the games uh probably knows when she should speak when she shouldn't speak when it's going
01:21:18
well when it's going badly and even that's a skill in itself because you
01:21:23
know when you're in a when you're the boss that's quite often would respect your
01:21:31
partner quite often could say the wrong thing at any minute and you and you go no you might be saying why are you not
01:21:40
thinking about no you're in the wrong case so I think it's really important
01:21:43
that your partner understands exactly how you feel well where do you think you'd be professionally without her uh I
01:21:50
couldn't imagine in it I couldn't imagine my my life really without my wife and and you know sometimes I'm not
01:21:56
59 at the moment so I thought we'd get a good bit to go we've got a good bit to
01:22:00
go and I want you to look forward to the to the years where latter years together
01:22:04
where we can have more time together because being a football manager means that
01:22:10
you know we're just about every weekend so yeah either way staying in a hotel
01:22:14
preparing for a game or you're you know you're with a team and actually the way
01:22:19
football's gone you're in every Sunday now you could be in all the time there's
01:22:23
very little family time and it and actually it's one of the things I think what people don't understand hey by the
01:22:29
way it's a great job really well paid game everybody wants to be involved energy but it's incredibly time
01:22:36
consuming you know and it takes up so much of your time interview if you have a family
01:22:42
probably they're the ones who suffer most because they don't see you as much
01:22:45
as well probably other families may do if you work uh Monday sort of nine till five you go home at the weekends at
01:22:52
least uh being a football manager the weekends uh you're doing it and actually
01:22:58
I'm trying to get a membership with a golf club at the moment back in my home
01:23:02
I can't get in because in the sea well no you've got to play away you've got to
01:23:05
play with members and you've got to play with friends to get an absent I've got
01:23:09
no friends in the business we're in it's really hard to have lots of friends
01:23:14
outside of our industry the reason why is because a social time when focusing here we're going out Friday night we're
01:23:21
going out Saturday night you're coming with us no I'm in the hotel we've got a
01:23:24
game tomorrow we can't do that or we go out Saturday night yeah but I lose obviously I'm not gonna lose Saturday
01:23:30
night so lots of reasons why uh even a football manager does a great job but it's also got lots of anti-social
01:23:39
Behavior things because of how the job Works Alia you said that you you haven't
01:23:44
been historically so good especially when you're a younger at um giving praise I can relate one of the
01:23:50
things that men are particularly bad at is um letting and I'm speaking about
01:23:54
myself here is letting their significant other know how much they appreciate them
01:23:58
I think women are usually better at kind of that that affection and saying the kind words and stuff and as men I know
01:24:04
this for myself I don't think my partner actually has a clue how much she means
01:24:07
to me and how much she's been there for me in the hottest times and just her
01:24:09
presence sometimes when she says nothing in the hard moments how that changes my
01:24:13
state um if Pamela is watching this what are the words you wish you could tell her that maybe you haven't told her
01:24:20
uh she would probably know that a lover of course she would I would hope she would but more importantly that I miss
01:24:28
her because I'm in London a lot of the time she's she's up north she's caring
01:24:33
for her mom a lot at the moment I just really over the time she's been she's been great we've we've had great
01:24:41
times together and but always want to say I think my best times in in football Hope was still to come but hopefully her
01:24:48
best time is a couple are still to come as well David thank you thank you for lots of
01:24:54
inspiration over the many many many years and lots of good memories in football um you've been an incredible manager all
01:24:59
the clubs you've been at in my view and I do wish that Manchester United had
01:25:02
given you more of a chance because I just generally believe everything you say about the importance of when when
01:25:07
you come into a new system or organization needing that time to understand and make it your own so even
01:25:11
as a Manchester United fan I was always I'm always really annoyed at how quickly
01:25:15
we've um moved on with our managers before giving them a chance because they're all
01:25:19
objectively great managers and you certainly are as well um and it's just an honor to meet you
01:25:23
because you know I've watched you on the screens for for decades so thank you we
01:25:28
have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for
01:25:32
the next guest um and the question left for you is what is the biggest public misconception
01:25:46
about something that has happened in your life uh after thinking about it I think that
01:25:56
there was a I felt it was a few untruths at the end when I lost my job at Manchester United
01:26:01
actually and I found it very difficult to correct I felt that you know they had been
01:26:06
written so it was very difficult to correct them uh you know which they weren't right and uh from that point of
01:26:14
view I couldn't turn about it and I found that actually probably one of the biggest difficulties
01:26:19
because you try you want to say well here I'll explain why I made this decision I'll explain why I chose to do
01:26:25
that uh but really once the headline's there that's the only thing that matters
01:26:30
you've got to give me one yeah which I think I won that's what I think uh
01:26:36
I've got I've got this one but I don't know if I don't want to give the
01:26:39
player's name so uh I mean it was actually uh so somewhere like they said that Manchester
01:26:47
United had banned chips on a Friday Rio had said in his book that had banned chips I read that yeah I did and uh it
01:26:54
was actually something which probably most sports profession you wouldn't really have chips but then in
01:27:04
part of it but understood Manchester United Sir Alex done a lot a lot of things maybe slightly different in I
01:27:10
totally respected that and what happened is I remember it was one of my first first games were staying in the hotel
01:27:15
and there was one player who was overweight which I won't name and I remember walking in and I was
01:27:21
walking into the dining room and he had his dinner and next to me they had a side plate of chips
01:27:27
and that was my reason for after that scene that one player without the side portionship that was my reason for
01:27:34
saying there should be no chips on a Friday night and it was sort of written about that that was one of the the
01:27:39
reason but my reason was actually because one of the players who was actually at the time a bit overweight a
01:27:45
song with a with a side player chips and that's when I used our band them if you
01:27:50
want to say that interesting thank you so much David for your time thank you so much thank you
01:27:56
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