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every day i wake up the first thing i think am i going to be able to talk today there's been a red card but for who
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chris tamara i don't know jeff hazard one of britain's best love football pundits
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it's been a great job unbelievable jeff what a cracking game there's a young black kid thinking that
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one day i'll play four middles middlesbrough and four leads ambition and dream
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achieved the story of your mother i found very difficult to read it was difficult in
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those days men were physical towards women i made the mistake of telling my dad on his deathbed that it
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was wrong i should have kept it to myself [Music] why for someone that has never experienced
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apraxia what does it feel like for you and your head i feel a fraud now in terms of
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broadcasting you feel a fraud i was gonna quit everything without further ado i'm stephen bartlett
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and this is the diary of a ceo i hope nobody's listening but if you are then
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please keep this to yourself [Music] chris what do i need to know about your earliest years to understand
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the man that you are today whoa i don't know really um my childhood is slightly clouded um
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so i wouldn't change anything because you can't change the course of history but
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life was difficult growing up very difficult um so yeah i wouldn't change anything to be honest
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when you say clouded well good days bad days we had uh terrible racism at the time uh when i
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was growing up i was born in 57 so in the 60s it wasn't good we were the only black family on our estate
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so anything happened and the police would come knocking on our door take out that away and you'd have to get cleared
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and come home and the whole process would start again it's that black family there
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who are causing all the problems and occasionally uh not all the time my dad were like to bet
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so he would on a thursday he when he got paid they got paid in cash and then brown
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envelopes would occasionally go to the bookies and so we'd end up you know struggling for food so it's
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clouded in those ways i'm looking through those clouds now but you know uh thinking it didn't do me any harm but it
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happened you know your mother and your father's relationship uh mum was the most loyal wife you could ever have
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absolutely even if her and dad and arguments are fights or whatever she would venemently stick up for him you know
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when anybody called him you know the n-word was vibrant back in those days and you know i hear these stories now
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that it's impossible to understand uh racism if you're not black it's not true
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it's totally not true my mom got colder and lower throughout you know the 60s when i was aware of it
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uh and she came through it so she knew exactly what racism was about your father was from sierra leone yeah
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and your mother was from middle flow middlesbrough yeah people don't always think about that
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they don't think about how the in in that context because my mother's from nigeria and my dad's from coventry
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so i'm you know and what my dad went through as well because his wife was black
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um is often not spoken about but often the the partner carries the weight and the the um
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the insults all the same i i was reading through your story about how your mother would also on thursday
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she would walk up to 10 miles to go and get your dad's pay packet yeah through fear that he
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might spend it yeah she had to and so it became a ritual in the end she would do
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it all the time in the end when we were older as kids she didn't have to carry
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us to the uh workplace which was 10 miles away uh a brown journey and so she they ended up she would walk to meet
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dad and they would go off into town together you know and that became the norm did your dad ever show the
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impact or the consequences of the way he was being treated like an outsider in a
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country where he people were telling him he didn't belong uh to us as kids did you ever see the
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impact of him emotionally did it manifest itself in drinking or was there ever a sign that it was
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impacting him uh he told us often enough he'd been involved in fights uh back then fist fights you know that was
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the norm you know he had to stand up and be counted but he was always the one arrested in those fighting situation
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um but he he had this thing and he drove it into me and my brother don't ever
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react you know i might be reacting but whatever you do don't react you know take it on the chin
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and ride through it you'll get through it that way it's been harder for me
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and i'm doing this for you so yeah you'll benefit and money you know the other thing that i read
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that i found i found really difficult to read was the story of your your mother when
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your dad's gambling problems were very difficult your mother would and you didn't have money your mother
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would go around to other houses in the street and knock on the doors and ask for bread or anything or money that's
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how it had to be you know if you've got tuesday and wednesday to come on a monday and you haven't got food and
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milk and until dad gets paid on thursday she'd go and borrow money or milk or bread
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from the neighbors she had to she got turned away more often than not but she persevered she had to she had to look
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after her kids how did you feel amongst that time see what agu at this point five six seven
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eight um well yeah it wasn't all the time you know it was occasional so yeah i would say
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from eight-year-old i became aware of it more uh i know it's eight because i had to light
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a cold fire at eight years of age can you imagine you know i can imagine asking my boys
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to get wood and paper and matches and then light the paper and then once the wood gets going put the coal on top at
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eight years age yeah yeah [Music] spooky yeah you were asked to do that to heat the
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home yeah they we didn't have sensual heating he had a fire coal fire that was all yeah
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you had the oven in the back of the house in the kitchen so you'd put the gas on to heat the kitchen when it was
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really cold but the main source of heat and the hot water was the fire was there was there a lot of love in
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your home uh yeah i would say intimately yeah yeah yeah you know when i look back now
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um i would change anything even though there are aspects that i'd like to change
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one or two one or two things you know what the thing i want don't want to do is
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is destroy the person who my dad is for my grandkids but it was difficult in those days you
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know men were physical towards women uh so yeah yeah uh difficult yeah i sat here not so long ago with alex
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scott the the um football presenter broadcasting yeah i worked with alex at sky yeah her book comes out in 10 days time
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in the book i was reading about how um she's never spoken about it before publicly but
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she would come home and watch her father beating her up her mother constantly and the mark that left on her as a young
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child having to witness that kind of violence in the home and it's not really talked about enough
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and it's funny the reason why i bring that up is because she's also grappling with the same um
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fear of tarnishing her father's life yeah yeah but it was done i presume my dad grew up with it
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and so you thought it was okay for him to do it but like i say you know my kids will probably listen to this and
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you know i don't want to say too much on it is there a mixture of emotions around
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it because that's what i observed in alex as well was there's this like you look at someone in your life whether
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it's a parent or someone you love and you say that behavior was wrong but at the same time
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i i love you you're still my father and it's you know that that balancing
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act of like should i hate this person should you never say yeah i made the mistake
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of telling my dad on my death on his deathbed uh that it was wrong and he he saw like wouldn't accept that he'd done
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what he'd done so you know why does that make you emotional well i should have kept it to myself
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why why wait until he's nearly dead to say something i'm a grown man in this
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time your mother yes puts a smile on your face yeah of course um what role has she played in making
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you the man you are today um she was everything you could want in a mom she would do anything for me
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um she did my dad never saw my school report from the age of five until i left school at
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16. she protected me that way and so yeah but not only that you know my mums are great and
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she looked after the family um as good as she possibly could and you know she was my world
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and at that age what was your what were your dreams if i'd asked you the question what do
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you want to be when you grow up yeah footballer yeah no danger playing for middlesbrough initially and
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then when i saw leads on back to the day around there may sounds boring all leads yeah ambition to play
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for borah dream to play for leagues so footballer nothing else tunnel vision yeah
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why football what was it doing for you oh everything yeah i used to play on the field near
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our house with again squirrel men from the age of 12 and i wasn't bad you know and they would
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try to kick lumps out of this little kid who was embarrassing him so yeah it stood me in good stead
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when i played against men at 16 i couldn't look after myself eventually you um you end up going and
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doing a couple of months in the army yeah the navy yeah no um uh dave richardson
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uh who was uh uh coach middle boys came around my house and said to my dad uh there's a chance not guaranteed that
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chris will be taken on uh as an apprentice a middlesbrough and he went no no he's not going
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if he stays in middle row he'll become uh he'll be in trouble with police uh he'll
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end up drinking and stuff like that he's not staying in middlesbrough he's going
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in the navy he made my brother join the army and he made me join the navy literally
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frog marched me down to the recruitment office and the sign on the dotted line can you imagine you know well i can't
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imagine doing that to my kids you know and in a way i think that worked against me with my kids
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because i never pressurized my kids to do anything at all you know let them do whatever they wanted whereas
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i probably could have been a you know a little bit more in terms of football or you know
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but i want whatever they wanted to do was my wish and i think that came from my dad
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when he marched you down there and you had a love for football at that time he marched you down there and he wanted you
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to join the navy how did you feel um not good i have to say not good um it was one of those things i left middlesbrough
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boys were in a semi-final um the week before i was going in the navy so i knew i had this final coming up when i signed
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a semi-final coming up when i signed uh for the navy so i was thinking hopefully the
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semi-final and final yeah of the middle boys uh will be over but i played the semi-final and then
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i didn't uh get in touch with dave richardson to tell him i wouldn't be there for the final because i was off to
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tall point in devon uh well como it's across the water from plymouth um that's where i'm from
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plymouth yeah plymouth yeah so you know it's comal and not devon yeah but it's
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uh it's a stone's throw and uh that's where i got my lucky break yeah
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your lucky break yeah when the navy football team were training there so uh i went down um
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one day and uh i asked the coach if i could train with him and the team and he went now
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three reasons one you're on a trial so yeah what it did you were on a trial situation whereas
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you got to six weeks whether you liked the navy or they like you and if not you could leave
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so he said come back in six weeks uh if you want and the other thing he said number two
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he said is your black and these lot are kick lumps out of you so to speak so and the third thing is you're too
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skinny you're not gonna be strong enough to play in the uh navy football team so i said okay
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anyway got to six weeks was fine uh was okay and then there's a six months period then where you can decide if you
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want to stay in the navy or not so uh i went back to see him and he kept saying no no no and then one day i was
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running around the track while the navy football team and he said look we're two
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players short i'll play on one side you play on the other just stay out on the
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wing and you'll be fine so i said okay anyway i scored two goals from the wing
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and got drafted straight into the team straight away and the rest is history we played
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portsmouth reserved and um navy side i scored another two goals against them they asked how old i was
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and they bought me out for the magnificent sum of 200 pounds and my dad um i i found my dad and i told him what was
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happening and he wasn't happy so i spoke to the navy and said look would you do me a favor would you give
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me a letter saying if it don't work out as a footballer i can go back in the
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maybe and they said yeah fine so i got that letter uh sent it to dad and it sounded like made
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him you know a bit more cell hmm and then it happens your your career portsmouth
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a lot of people don't um a lot of people will never appreciate especially in this the modern era even
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me even me as a guy that has a a black black mother and a white father the what racism was like back in the 50s and 60s
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you know the first time i experienced racism was maybe 1990 eight no it would have been later a little bit
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about 2000 roughly about when i was maybe eight or nine or ten but when i was reading through what you experienced
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at that in that time almost constantly yeah yeah i just it it's it makes it almost makes my
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experience feel like it was nothing and i mean that like i remember like once or twice or three times you know
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over the course of my whole childhood people being overtly racist but when was the first time someone was
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racist to you i know exactly when it all scanner never forget it i was eight years old once again that
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was the time where i could light the fire and go to the shops to get cigarettes so you went with a note for
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the shopkeeper so it was 10 wood vines for my mum and 20 capstan full strength my dad
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so i went to the shop gave the note to the shopkeeper uh and he's getting in this woman uh
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came in the shop anyway she asked for a pint of milk or loaf of bread i'm not sure of those
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details and uh he said i am i'm serving this young man here she said isla should
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go back to where they came from and i thought i live five dollars away from you you know
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uh i'm not you know from somewhere else and he said no look he stood his ground
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the shopkeeper and served me and i went out with uh ringing in our ears and then
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blacks and souls shouldn't be here it says it all that you can remember that day with such detail
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[Music] i can yeah that's something i don't think people realize is the first time someone called
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me in the n-word at school i remember everything about that day i can't remember many other days but for some
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reason that was a it's a very traumatic experience and the first sort of signs that you're
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different yeah unwelcome um and that would go on to continue throughout your childhood your football career
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i read about the story when you were playing against millwall i believe it was and someone had thrown a banana on the
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pitch at you um yeah no wall was horrific but not just for me as a black person it was for any footballer that
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went there you know basically but even harder for me i can always remember uh once again if you ask me about my career
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and there's you know lots i forget but the first time i took a throw in there
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the ball went out and they kept the wall initially it wouldn't give me it and then eventually
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got through on to the pitch and the uh um fans uh virtually there and you're
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taking a throwing from there so i'm sort of like taking this throwing and all of
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a sudden spit is on the back of my the packet much i never took a throwing ever there again
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that lesson was truly learnt yeah and the the the other story which i found it just sounded like something
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from a thousand years ago was when you went to the pub after a game with your team and the the pub owner
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made a comment a racist comment to you yeah yeah that was in wetherby i'd played for portsmouth at sunderland
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um and 1976 i think sunderland needed to win to get promotion to the what is the premier
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league now the old first division we needed a win to stay up in the old second division
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what is the championship now anyways sunderland won that day i always remember that game
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for two reasons not just the weatherby incident i drank champagne for the first time
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uh sunderland sent a case of champagne into the dressing room because they got promoted that day
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so we get on the coach uh every virtually every team that played sunderland on newcastle would stop at
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whether before fish and chips um so uh so we stop so we all pile in the pub uh most of the players
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and the barman says we don't serve his kind in here and the lights were all gone and i went no
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no no it's fine uh to be honest i was underage anyway i was 17. um but that didn't matter back then i'd
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been going in the pubs since i was 14 you know um so i went no no it's fine anyway
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mickey mello's one of my teammates said i'll bring you a pint out but that
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was the first time that my teammates realized you know do you get that often and stuff like that
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they're saying yeah occasionally you know but part of life you know you get on with it
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it's one thing to to shrug it off and i feel like in that situation there's a time in place you know
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to um to address some of these things or to confront them your father had taught you to kind of
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not react as you say but as you look back on that period of your life how did that racial abuse shape and
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change you as a man uh it made you wary of other people obviously you know not happy but i wouldn't say oh god it's
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traumatized me or something like that and then the black lives come out and people start
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telling their stories of racism and the way they've been treated and you think ah why can't i tell my story now
00:28:10
and i have them [Music] has that helped you telling your story to be honest i wouldn't say it's helped
00:28:18
me out not help me i think since i've had this well i've got two conditions an
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underactive thyroid and apraxia the underactive the thyroid plays with your emotions
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so i get a lot more emotional now whereas stuff i wouldn't even bat an eyelid in
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the past because of this little butterfly uh thyroid in my neck it now makes me more emotional
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when did you discover the underactive thyroid uh well it's funny you know it's really funny um
00:29:06
it's i did going through lockdown initially the first lockdown in march uh when the weather was great and
00:29:18
everyone you know quite you know i think they were gutted about the lockdown but the fact you were at
00:29:26
home and the sun was shining things were slightly different i did loads and loads of shows from home you
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know celeb use and steph's back launch itv lorraine and stuff like that sky sports
00:29:42
from the you know barn at home you know so that was fine so uh all of a sudden i began
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to not feel well um too well but i always stroked it off i'd take you know tablets and be fine the next day and all
00:30:05
that sort of stuff but it wasn't going away and uh i thought what's going on but i ignored it ignored
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it which is the worst thing you can possibly do so i would get away with it at home by
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hardly not being the person i was you know i'm not talking as much when i'm
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broadcasting for sky i'm trying to keep minimalistic because some of the words are coming out slurred
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and stuff like that so eventually um i've got to go and see someone because i literally went
00:30:49
a whole year if not 20 months before i actually got diagnosed with underactive thyroid
00:31:00
so it was all my prayers answered at once uh you know you've got an underactive thyroid take
00:31:11
level thyroid once you find your level of level of thyroxine you'll be fine great doctors great uh sorting out so
00:31:23
eventually you take 25 grams or whatever it is a level entire auction eventually when you find your level
00:31:33
you're fine so i get to 175 and my thyroid is stabilized bull my voice condition is still exactly the
00:31:45
same so what's going on so my doctor then says go for a brain scan so i'd go for a mri scan anyway
00:31:55
go and see a brain specialist he looks at the x-rays the mri scan fine not a problem
00:32:03
nothing wrong with your brain it's got to be something else that's going on
00:32:10
so uh go back to my gp and tell him what's going on he's got the report from the brain scan so he says he he
00:32:22
won't give up my gb he says it's not obviously your uh thyroid there's something else going on
00:32:31
would you go and see this doctor lily and late he's a specialist so i'll go and see dr lily in leads and
00:32:42
before uh alboni said hello to him uh and before i can even chat to him he says you've got apraxia
00:32:53
of speech right how do you know i can tell straight away the difficulty between the brain and your mouth being able to
00:33:06
speak you know it's probably slower than it is now uh at that time so he said a lot you know i want you to
00:33:15
go and have a dat scan which is which rules out parkinson's or stroke and all
00:33:22
that so so i did uh went back to see him with the result for the results i should say
00:33:30
and he went the good news is uh you haven't got parkinson's or anything like that the
00:33:38
bad news is you know we can't find anything else wrong with you so you know the apraxia
00:33:48
you know will probably get worse and uh and you know that went on for quite a while uh
00:34:00
i went to see a therapist and he kept saying to me look you need to tell people you know you can't
00:34:09
continue on tv and people are saying is he drunk and what's the matter with him has he
00:34:15
had a stroke you need to come out and say something i said i can't i can't i'd rather quit
00:34:23
than actually say something uh anyway eventually i spoke to my mate ben sheppard
00:34:35
uh told him what was going on so he said look come on uh gmb uh we'll chat about it and
00:34:46
let the world know what's going on how are things for your your family during this period
00:34:57
um my boys had been saying to my wife that something wrong with that uh for a while
00:35:09
and she saw like would broach it with me but i'd be quite snappy and you know which i'm not
00:35:18
anyway you know and say no i'm fine i'm fine don't worry about it i'm fine
00:35:24
and i kept thinking like i said once i got the thyroid problem the level will tie rocks
00:35:32
i'll take it away and then um it's still with with me and yeah yeah it's harder for people close to you i
00:35:48
think you know because my two boys are saying oh you're okay oh yeah i'm fine i've just had a bad day
00:35:56
you know don't worry i'll be fine uh but they know you know you can't pull the ball over their eyes
00:36:04
for too long for someone that has never experienced what it's like to have apraxia
00:36:14
what does it feel like for you in your head it feels like someone is taking over my voice books
00:36:24
so the voice that used to come out would come out at 300 mile an hour you know you've
00:36:32
seen me on the results and uh soccer saturday you know my mouth talking uh not even waiting for a breath just keep
00:36:44
going and going now when i hear myself or see myself on tv it's someone else
00:36:51
it's strange it's really strange some days you know their message from the brain to the mouth
00:37:00
is really slow yeah makes it difficult or some days the words come out different that what
00:37:07
you're trying to say and that's even weirder uh and so that's been hard to accept
00:37:15
and still hard to accept i have to say you know i was gonna quit everything you know
00:37:24
literally every single tv at the end of last season leave sky uh quit bbc quit itv quit channel four
00:37:36
and five and all those companies uh bbc i think it was the right time to leave sky
00:37:46
uh i'd had a great innings but itv channel on channel 5 said no no you're coming doesn't matter you know i
00:37:57
said well it's the quality of the program no it doesn't matter you you're fine we want you to do this
00:38:05
and would you believe i'm now doubly busy than what i was before that that period of um
00:38:16
uncertainty you get the diagnosis the specialist says to you it's only going to get worse
00:38:21
[Music] your career is at that point in speaking it's in presenting broadcasting yeah
00:38:33
what's what what was that period of uncertainty like on your mental health um
00:38:40
yeah it was uh an acceptance really because what i said to my wife is if i wasn't a broadcaster it wouldn't matter
00:38:52
would it and so she said yeah yeah so i said you know now's the time i've had a great
00:39:00
time i spoke to my agent simon dent said look i'm getting out of all this and he said yeah you can yeah don't
00:39:10
worry i'll leave it up to you and uh yeah i thought that's it quit i've done
00:39:19
my time and i'd like to thank all the people that are being persistent and said look
00:39:28
at 25 percent coming years you know still better than some people you know and skye
00:39:41
saw you on that show forever um yeah presenting and bringing you know insights and wisdom and laughs and
00:39:50
um all of that to the show i also watched the tribute um that jeff jeff did when you left what was that
00:39:58
like having to to speak to to jeff and and the rest of the lads and tell them departing and for the reason um well
00:40:05
jeff's a really close foul and he knew that been something going on for a while
00:40:12
and he kept saying to me are you all right and i said yeah i'll find you don't worry i'm fine you say well you
00:40:19
know yeah what's going on so i said honestly just had a couple of bad days and stuff
00:40:26
but i'll be fine on saturday then he'd send me a text and say you know fine
00:40:31
again no i said i'll be all right next week or whatever but yeah you can't pull the wool over
00:40:40
people's eyes who know you real well and uh it was great you know the tribute that skye gave me which
00:40:50
like i said was the right time to leave there uh i cried when he cried on the show
00:41:00
i've never seen him cry before he's a really um beautiful powerful moment
00:41:07
um since then you've uh in your own words you've really thrown the kitchen sink i think
00:41:13
is the quote um um the apraxia and can you talk to me about what you've done since to
00:41:21
to um mitigate the impact of the um condition on you and your life and your career
00:41:30
yeah the um the day i went on gmb and spoke to ben sheppard um and kate um the i got a phone call immediately from
00:41:45
a fella that i knew ish uh a fellow called winford doors and uh he said uh i can cure you you know i know there's
00:41:59
people out there that'll help to get you right so he said i want you to come and meet a professor
00:42:12
nicholson down at sheffield university so i said okay so i met winford and the professor anyway between them they were
00:42:25
saying you need to kickstart your cerebellum which is in the back of the brain uh what's happened is uh it's shut down
00:42:36
so we need to get the jump leads out start it again and get your brain going and get your speech going
00:42:45
and uh there are various ways to do that [Music] so so i said yeah what are those i'll do
00:42:56
absolutely anything here to try and get it right so he got [Music] zing performance which is really
00:43:09
exercises for stroke victims but it's helped my balance uh arc performance which is micro currents
00:43:19
going through my body i still i have a tag on my ankle now with those micro currents
00:43:28
going through all the time yeah all the time yeah uh for seven hours every day um and it's helped
00:43:38
yeah it's helped you know i'm i wouldn't say um more than 60 percent
00:43:46
the old me but you know i was 20 you know so i've gone up 40 for a hyperbaric uh tent you know with the
00:43:58
oxygen he recommended i do that and i see a therapist who helps with the speech and help my
00:44:08
anxiety working for sky became very difficult you know before i even came out and said i've got it
00:44:23
my heart would be like mad before they came to me at sky oh the anxiety was terrible because i
00:44:33
was knowing i wasn't the old me so i went to see him and he said look i can cure that
00:44:42
the other problem the apraxia is a biological condition so i can't help with that but
00:44:50
we'll try you know and see if we can get you through things so getting rid of the anxiety helped me
00:44:59
finish work or the work i had stacked up uk strongest mountain the games right tv
00:45:08
uh all those shows cash in the attic i present um so they helped me do that um and uh all those
00:45:19
um treatments you know i'm taking so many vitamins these days and uh i've just been introduced by winford
00:45:30
uh to uh the uh best neurologist neurologist in america and he said because i have good days there's
00:45:43
no reason why i can't be cured so i've sent off a load of blood tests and everything to america and i'm just
00:45:54
waiting on the results how is life for you now you've been through a journey yeah you
00:46:03
know where are you in in that journey now strange uh strange in terms of i feel a fraud now in terms of
00:46:13
broadcasting i don't bring to the table what i used to um so that's hard
00:46:23
my life away from the screen couldn't be any better you know grandkids you know family yeah
00:46:33
it's you know it's perfect unique yeah you feel afraud yeah um because you because you
00:46:46
i feel i'm doing these programs and and they're not getting the best of me
00:46:54
but they're tolerating me you know that's how it feels i mean who am i to say but um you know i
00:47:08
i think what you what they told you about as you said 25 of you is better than pretty much everyone else
00:47:16
you know i've you you've brought so much joy to my life growing up made me love
00:47:19
the game more made me understand the game more you've made it hilarious i mean you know that you're you're loved
00:47:24
more than anyone i've ever seen on the screen so and you've earned that that's a skill
00:47:28
that's something i couldn't do i wouldn't know how to do a slither of
00:47:32
what you do so i don't think that um i suspect that fear is is not as logical as you think
00:47:38
it is that you're a fraud i mean that as well like i could never do what you do i can do of 10 of what
00:47:44
you do so um you know it's like anything else you take it for granted your old self you do things
00:47:58
you know that tribute that skye gave me that's reserved for someone who passes away
00:48:08
isn't it you know so i've had the tribute while i'm still alive uh that people don't get when they go
00:48:17
you always look back and think you read the obituaries and the comments and things why didn't people say that
00:48:25
you know so i think maybe i should have bowed out then you know and taking the accolades and said thank you
00:48:39
you know am i tarnishing what i've got what i had but i but i think um my rebuttal to that
00:48:50
if i may is that you you're serving the world in a very important way now still
00:48:55
even by having this conversation and being vulnerable and open you are serving hundreds of thousands of
00:49:01
people thousands and thousands of people in a completely entirely different way that are suffering
00:49:10
with with various conditions whether it's you know as you said post-stroke victims
00:49:14
or whether it's apraxia or other things and they're struggling with the same
00:49:18
self-doubt it's funny like our missions just change over our lives right like so your first
00:49:22
missions was in football and then you became a manager then you did broadcasting and now this chapter of
00:49:26
your life is just a different chapter you're still you know a wondrous broadcaster but you're serving people in
00:49:33
a completely other way probably maybe arguably even in a more important way see what i mean yeah
00:49:39
yeah i do yeah it's funny i did the itv games and a youtuber who was called young philly
00:49:50
i'd never met him before but he's on the first show and he sees me before we go broadcasting
00:49:59
and he comes over and he starts doing that he went you're a god when what you know
00:50:08
i'm young philly pleased to meet you do you know what icon you are for black
00:50:14
people that went nah don't be darby you are you're a trailblazer you know you did tv before diversity
00:50:25
you know how did you get into tv when you you know on sky sports and there was no black people around and all that so
00:50:35
stuff you're an icon and i went no i don't see myself as uh anyway well you'd be my inspiration
00:50:43
so makes you feel good for a second that's worth it right yeah and that alone that that thought that
00:50:51
you're inspiring people just by having this conversation and by sharing your story and being
00:50:56
honest and not running into the shadows as you could have very easily done is gonna help that and you probably
00:51:03
never get to meet them like you got to meet young philly hmm but that's got to be worth it right
00:51:08
yeah yeah it was i didn't believe him but yeah he's got no reason to lie though
00:51:17
quick one as you might know crafted are one of the sponsors of this podcast and crafted are a jewellery brand and they
00:51:24
make really meaningful pieces of jewellery and this piece by crafted when i put it on for me it represents courage
00:51:31
it represents ambition it represents being calm and loving and respectful and nurturing while also being the
00:51:38
antithesis of that seemingly the antithesis of that which is um sometimes a little bit aggressive with my goals
00:51:44
and determined and courageous and brave the really wonderful thing about crafty jewelry is it's super affordable it
00:51:50
looks amazing the pieces hold tremendous meaning and they are really well made this next uh this next chapter
00:51:59
what what what do you want it to be full of my life has changed uh in terms of grandkids
00:52:09
you know material things don't matter anymore um the love yeah for you know your kids kids uh is something
00:52:23
else so you know i'm one of those now even though i'm still working my main
00:52:31
priority is spending time with them what advice would you give me you know i just turned 30
00:52:41
last week what advice would you give me i say it to everyone work hard and you'll succeed
00:52:50
don't ever turn down work don't ever say on a job or this is hard i don't like it anymore i can't do this
00:53:01
do it do it and do it to the best of your ability and see where it takes you you
00:53:08
know tv is one of those jobs i think where if you work hard enough you'll succeed
00:53:18
in football that's not the case you know i've grown up in football and you
00:53:24
sometimes a lucky break is better than working hard even you've still got a workout but you need breaks
00:53:34
and of course you need breaks in tv but if you work hard i think you get them i started off at
00:53:42
sky and so people say how did you get into sky in 1998 well initially i was a pundit forum
00:53:57
i was lucky fortunate the first broadcast of the football league was sunderland versus
00:54:06
sheffield united at sheffield and they rang me i was manager of the month with bradford
00:54:14
in [Music] august we won four games and drew one and they called me and said would you
00:54:21
come and be the pundit so i said yeah sheffield down the road from me and they said no
00:54:29
you've got to come into sky in west london so i came all the way down marcus brooklyn the presenter who is his
00:54:40
first day and it was a double header six hours of tv obviously ads in between and all that
00:54:48
sort of stuff half time and that and jerry francis was doing the second game so that's where fate took a hand
00:55:00
uh i did the first game sunderland won at sheffield and jerry francis got stuck on the m4 so
00:55:09
i did the double header so from doing six hours of tv i became the go-to guy then for sky so a live game
00:55:20
are you available uh yeah i'll come down and do it and i did that and then when i got the sack from
00:55:29
bradford they asked would i like a contract and i said no but i like to keep my face in the shop
00:55:38
window so i did one broadcast and then stoke came along and i got that job and then that job turned sour pretty
00:55:50
quickly after three months and uh then i just fell straight into sky the broadcasting
00:56:01
and so eventually um the 1999 the producer of soccer side he said would you like to come and join the team
00:56:17
uh so i said yeah so you went would you like to do some features for us so i would actually go and train with
00:56:26
teams premier league teams you know can you cannot imagine in a million years that they let you in and train with the
00:56:35
players these days but i did that back in the day 1990 you know so i'd go on
00:56:41
train joining the training with them interview the managers the players shoot the
00:56:48
and then i went and edited those pieces because i didn't want someone saying oh
00:56:55
yeah it's fine but you know the hard work is done by the editor so i would sit myself in a studio
00:57:07
and sometimes it took six seven hours for a four minute piece to edit it down but i thought all right i don't want
00:57:17
anyone saying he's there by for all hard work and if you do that people see that
00:57:24
uh it'll help not in all cases but in most cases that was the very start of what would go
00:57:32
on to be a legendary career in the media um i when you look so you've given me one
00:57:38
reason now as to why you're successful which is just the hard work and saying
00:57:40
yes but the media business is also it's much more complex than that in the sense that hard work as you say is like
00:57:48
you definitely need to do it but what was it about you do you think that set you apart
00:57:56
as of as a in the media industry as a broadcaster i don't know that i'm still baffled by
00:58:02
that i went to ian condren's uh 40th anniversary with his wife he was ian was the producer of soccer sadie who
00:58:14
gave me the job and [Music] i said why you know i'd seen you on doing other programs
00:58:25
punditry and so you'd be great for our show he said uh you know took a chance with
00:58:32
you and uh and it works for 20 years you mustn't you must have a suspicion no no no at all you know i'm i was
00:58:44
allowed to be just me so i didn't have to work at it like i had to work it editing those pieces together you know
00:58:54
the training plan uh interviewing the managers all came natural yeah it was that hard work that
00:59:03
i wanted to prove that i could do um but no i was fortunate oh it was just me and
00:59:16
when did you meet anne uh we met uh when i was at swindon uh i got transferred from
00:59:27
uh portsmouth to swindon my first ever transfer and uh in 1978 [Music] 1978 yeah 1978
00:59:43
and uh we actually played portsmouth my first game for swindon was home to portsmouth
00:59:55
and yeah i had to uh please escort to the game um the uh club had been informed by the
01:00:08
intelligence that the national front because portsmouth had 200 national front supports national front is this racist
01:00:18
organization from yeah couple decades ago yeah so they'd got wind that they were
01:00:26
gonna do me in you know um so uh you know when i played for pompey there was a small section of fans that
01:00:37
booed you onto the pitch because of your color booed you off you know but like i said back in those
01:00:44
days i didn't care not one job you know and i didn't care when they said about this
01:00:50
you know you're gonna be nothing and i said oh it's just a threat don't worry
01:00:56
about it but the police intelligence said no we need to pick you up and take you to the game and drop you back
01:01:07
home so i did and uh he scored went to the year after 10 minutes and not like today uh where
01:01:18
people don't celebrate uh of course stupid me you know dad this death threat
01:01:24
goes straight because i scored in the end where the pompey fans were and gave it all that
01:01:34
so uh so yeah no so uh the police escort wanted to take me back to my dicks but i said no
01:01:43
leave it now it's fine and uh one of my teammates kenny stroud his wife linda was with
01:01:53
uh this girl called on uh and uh i asked her out and you know 40 years later or 43
01:02:05
years later we're still together what a journey it's been a long journey yeah
01:02:16
what does she mean to you uh everything you know it's you take wives from grant and all i did you know
01:02:27
i can't speak for everyone else um but it's only when you have a problem like this because
01:02:36
you know i just live for today you know i'm fine i'm you know i'm no problems don't worry about me
01:02:47
so it's when you have a problem um that you have to you know look at your closest one and
01:02:56
see what they do for you and how they react to what you're going through which
01:03:04
you know is difficult and then you feel sad about you know not sharing things before and keeping things away from
01:03:15
how did she react to all of this um she she said she thought for a while she didn't say
01:03:25
anything she said she sought uh for a while there was something not quite right but
01:03:34
she couldn't put her finger on it and she's been my rock you know now you know
01:03:43
i don't i don't hardly you know this is the longest i've spoken to anybody for a
01:03:50
long time you know and you'll probably see when you edit this tape sometimes it's slow sometimes it's
01:03:59
coming out okay now it's coming out okay and it feels fine you know and that's
01:04:05
all to do with the mind maybe i'm talking about a good thing now with ants so it's fine and it's free
01:04:14
so yeah she's you know she's taking the weight uh a heavy weight of my shoulders
01:04:24
and you know allowed me to do what i do to continue doing what i'm doing if i
01:04:33
want to do it but she does say from time to time you're allowed to say no to these jobs
01:04:40
that simon rings up and asked me to do but i don't like to let anyone down you know i think it's worth saying that
01:04:51
i think this this has been a really really great conversation um and uh i'm actually quite surprised to hear
01:05:00
that of how much you struggled previously based on with the conversation we've had today
01:05:05
because i don't um i don't i don't know if i'm speaking out turn here but had i not known about the
01:05:11
um the condition this would have been a perfectly normal conversation on this on this podcast so
01:05:17
it's really really interesting and enlightening to to learn more about it and i
01:05:24
yeah i can't imagine as from a family's perspective as well going through that
01:05:28
journey with their father where you're trying to find answers you find answers
01:05:31
and then there's that whole sort of therapy process to get you back to where
01:05:34
you are and the mental health journey that takes us on which we've not really talked about in detail but
01:05:40
there's the curing the the condition but then there's like living with the cost
01:05:44
of the shift the tectonic shift in your life um it consumed your mind or asda mine
01:05:53
so every day i wake up the first thing i think am i gonna be able to talk today you
01:06:02
know so immediately i wake up i'll go in the bathroom and i'll look in the mirror and
01:06:09
say a few words and it's fine or i think it's fine the perception is fine in my head and
01:06:17
then i'll go downstairs and talk to anne and all of a sudden that pathway is
01:06:24
restricted and oh god not again today you know and that's been hard to get my
01:06:32
head around and my therapist uh daniel he says you exaggerate in your mind you know that's the problem
01:06:43
because you've never had to think about your speech now you're thinking and
01:06:49
you're overthinking so even though like you've said it seems fine to you in my head i know
01:06:57
that it's slower than it would have been had we spoken three years ago and that the cognition part the thoughts
01:07:07
that they're still the same yeah they're they're lightning quick yeah they're fine
01:07:13
so uh they're there in terms of speech but i have days where if you're out and about or
01:07:26
even indoors there's nothing in the brain area so you know whereas i could normally go into a room
01:07:37
did it all the time speak to everyone have a laugh that was the first thing on my mind
01:07:44
now that part of it is hard work and it feels hard work and it feels this struggle and it doesn't feel natural
01:07:55
that's the worst thing so i tend not to do it very often you know unless i'm feeling good i've you know
01:08:05
spoken to someone else and i can tell it's fluid uh the voice then i'll go in a room and
01:08:13
be myself again chris we have a closing tradition on this podcast yes where the um
01:08:21
last guest asks a question for the next guest they don't know who they're
01:08:25
writing it for and they'll never find out um although i have said their name
01:08:31
earlier on so you might be able to figure it out right but um the question they've written for you is
01:08:42
i'm going to read it verbatim what has been the most happiest moment of your life
01:08:52
full stop brought you the most joy and why uh is that kids aside or let's say kids aside because yeah
01:09:02
yeah yeah kids aside uh achieving my ambition and my dream yeah i can you know as a young black kid
01:09:16
playing on the fields around where i live thinking that one day i'll play an awesome park for
01:09:26
middlesbrough and ellen wrote four leads it's blown my mind away you know uh ambition and dream
01:09:36
achieved chris thank you i am i have no doubt that your ambitions and dreams are are just
01:09:45
getting started because you have all of the the core the minerals that it are required to achieve pretty much anything
01:09:51
and you've shown that your life has been a testament to that even in the face of
01:09:53
great adversity thank you i thank you not just for myself and for you giving me your time
01:09:57
today but um i don't think you realize how many people you're going to help in a really
01:10:02
important profound way how much pain you're going to alleviate from them how
01:10:06
you're going to make them feel seen and understood just by doing this today and
01:10:10
just by not hiding in the shadows thank you so thank you and thank you for all the joy you've brought me you've made
01:10:15
football fun you've made it um made me understand the game better over the course of pretty much my entire life
01:10:22
um so i'm for one i'm so glad that i still get to see you on the screens and
01:10:26
i hope to see you a lot more i know you guys showed ninja warrior uk race for glory um which is airing on itv which
01:10:32
i'm very excited about watching as well yeah i'm so glad i did it you know i
01:10:37
tried to pull out when they rang me and said we've been commissioned for series seven
01:10:45
i went oh no and they what what do you mean oh no now when oh no you're not getting the old coming they said oh
01:10:54
don't worry about it and uh i've watched a bit of the first episode and even though it don't sound like me
01:11:04
it's passable you know so yeah i hope people enjoy it well as you said 25 percent of you is better than
01:11:12
pretty much most anyone else so we'll take that thank you so much chris thanks
01:11:17
i had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast for many years
01:11:21
people have been asking for a coffee flavored huel and quite recently he'll release the iced coffee caramel flavor
01:11:29
of their um ready-to-drink heels and i've just become hooked on it over the last couple of weeks i've been on a
01:11:34
really interesting journey with huel which i've described and talked about a
01:11:37
little bit on this podcast i started with the berry ready to drinks then i moved over to the protein salted caramel
01:11:43
because it's 100 calories and it gives you all of your essential vitamins and
01:11:46
minerals but also gives you the 20 odd grams of protein you need and now i'm
01:11:50
balanced between them both i drink mostly the banana flavor ready to drink i've got really into the iced coffee
01:11:56
caramel um flavor of heels ready to drink and now i'm drinking that as well as the protein make sure you try the new
01:12:02
ready to drink flavors the caramel flavor is amazing the new banana flavor as well as amazing and obviously as i
01:12:09
said the iced coffee caramel flavor has been a real smash here so check it out let me know what you think on social
01:12:15
media i see all of your tags and instagram posts and tweets about huell [Music]