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i don't see barriers hard work every day is a lifestyle it should be like a standard dedication
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attention to detail i just wanted to be the best i was that obsessed with it my kids lost they lost
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their their mum i got to understand mental health for making a documentary it's allowed me to kind of speak and
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show vulnerability that people probably were never used to the great part of it is that you walk down the street an old
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age lady or a man come up to you you know what throat's all croaky and i watched your program
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i've never spoken before really you helped me like my next phase of my life when
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someone sees me in 10 20 years say that's where i paid for my united i haven't really done what i'm
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here to do to set and setting out to do do i even need to introduce my next guest rio ferdinand former football player one of
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the most decorated english footballers of all time and as a man united fan probably one of my favorite players
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of all time ever and he's played alongside some of the greatest players ever but he's also been managed by the best
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manager ever i grew up as a manchester united fan watching him idolizing him and now he's my mate so this is going to be a fairly interesting conversation after retiring
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he's become a sports commentator for bt sport he's become an author he's become an entrepreneur he's the founder of a charity a
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foundation he's a non-executive director which we'll talk about today as well and as you'll hear he's also so much
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more some things that you probably wouldn't expect he's also a husband and a dad one that's
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experienced tremendous unthinkable tragedy tragedy i pray that most of us will never know
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rio is a special guy not least for what he's achieved on the field but for who he is and today you're going to find out
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who he actually is the philosophy to life that he swears by and the culture required to win in an
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ambitious career but also the culture required to win in your personal life without further ado i'm stephen bartlett
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and this is the director ceo i hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself
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i'm trying to find the right words to ask this question because it's one that i've i haven't seen been asked in previous interviews with you but what
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are the what are the key things that happened when you were very very young that made you
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choose football as your future or enabled you to to take that path because a lot of kids grow up in london a lot of kids do a lot of things they have a lot of passions but for some reason as i read through your story football
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was this ballet as well but football was the the path that you chose to take above all other things yeah it's a good
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question because when i was younger i was into everything i was running around on the estate i was
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doing gymnastics a couple of times a week i was doing ballet i was obviously playing football i was doing athletics
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i was doing a drama class why were you doing all those things there because i just was interested in it all i liked it i enjoyed it and my
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mum and dad were really my mom especially were really like if you like something go and do it try it they were always like that go and
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do it what's the worst it can do is you you don't enjoy it i used to do karate sometimes as well
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and i got to a point i think i was like 13 or 14 years old and obviously my dad was having to come from east like obviously we lived in south london he'd drive to east northeast london
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drive home pick me up from school take me to west london to play football back to dropping friends off on the way
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is hard graft and in the end i got to 13 14 years old and my dad said listen you're doing a lot at the moment you're going to burn yourself out so let's just pick something that you
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really enjoy and you want to do and just go for it and i was like it was that an easy
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conversation it was difficult you know i had to let down our fault and disappoint central school of ballet
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where i was doing it which is a real like a top score in london in farringdon and i made good friends there and
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the other stuff i wasn't too that concerned about it but four years i was three or four years i
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was at the central school of ballet so i've got good relationships there told them i couldn't do it and then
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went full throttle and full steam ahead of with football and it was just it was the best decision i obviously
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made in my life in that sense but i was i knew that that was my passion i liked the other stuff i enjoyed doing
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the other stuff there were good distractions from what was probably going on my estate as well probably my parents fault like that as well
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but football was the something that i got up every day from when i knocked on my friend's ass borrow ship or let's go and play
00:04:41
football et cetera so ballet hmm interesting one a lot of people don't know that you did ballet and i but it sounds like you did at a pretty good level yeah i've done gymnastic gymnastics at
00:04:53
the london olympic games and they obviously i didn't notice there were scouts there from from ballet schools or someone was
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watching our family and friend was there and they said ah he looks like he i don't know how what i
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had or what i was my posture or something like that looks good to be a ballet dancer so i went there and i wasn't really one
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for saying no to stuff i was like i'll try it i'll try anything and they said and one of the reasons i was going
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to be able to get off my estate meet new people new girls maybe as a young kid and then it was in a different part of london traveling so i've done it it's funny i read i read
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a tweet the other day which was kind of linked to something you said there and it said on the way up say yes to everything
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when you get to the top start saying no to everything yeah yeah and it sounds like yeah and it's like and i'm almost saying that as well when we the
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conversation we're having now about like the stuff you're up to now now yeah like what is what's that i
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always think this what's the worst way that can happen as long as it's not a health issue i might fail i might i might not be good
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at it i might have foul who cares like with a boxing i wanted to go trying to be from a professional footballer just trying to
00:05:57
be a professional boxer crazy yeah but what's the worst that can really happen i lose the fight my life goes on that's it so but some people they can't allow their
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ego to be squashed maybe at a certain point or their pride and they're sitting there as this macho
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person that they can't feel vulnerable at any point and when you try things there is an element of vulnerability
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that comes with that because you're opening yourself up you're leaving yourself a bit wide open for criticism for failure but i'm not
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scared of failure i never have been i'm not i'm not fearful and that's what i try and put in my kids if you fail what get up and go again
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people like they they trap themselves in their career in their sense their sort of self-identity because we were talking before we started
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chatting about like me trying to resist my labels now i've left social chain they think they are an x but from a very
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very young age and i'm kind of connecting the dots now through the rest of your life and even now you worse you were a kid on the estate
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in peckham and that is an identity that's not one that's also conducive with ballet no is that it's just such a different
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end of the spectrum yeah like you just wouldn't associate one with the other and again i i wasn't we were speaking
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just as you mentioned before before he came on here one of the things that i my mom used to
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say to me is that don't let anyone tell you what you are don't be pigeon holed i mean you go and
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find out and explore and find out what you are and you gotta have experiences to get to that point it's not gonna happen overnight it's not gonna happen in your
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childhood not in your teens when you get to become an adult you'll start working your way and finding out who you are and what you
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are and i've always thought that so going to a ballet school i could have been ridiculed my mates i was one of the boys on the
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estate but at the same time i was confident enough that i really again ballet laughing i don't
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care what and i know i'm good at football i know i'm good i'm the fastest runner on the estate in my age group
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i can keep up with the older boys what because i go badly what there's nothing wrong who are you to answer that question you
00:07:53
know your mum's telling you to go out and find out who you are did you ever answer that question not really i think that question you don't
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really answer it in the end i think you're always evolving it's like for instance it's something you said earlier it
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pricked my ears about you said moles the same thing just in a different way probably a more elegant way about not
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wanting to be pigeonholed and like my aim in my life now like people think you've played football and you've done all these amazing things as a footballer i i've done really well i acknowledge
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that but it's like understatement but i don't that's not enough for me like my next phase of my life i don't
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want to be remember when someone sees me my success in my next phase of life is when someone sees me and says that's rio
00:08:33
do you know rio and they mentioned something that i'm doing or i've done around that time not that's rio's a footballer if people
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were in 10 20 years say that's where i paid for my united i ain't really kicked on i haven't
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really done what i'm i'm here to do to setting out to do which is to evolve and become something
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different and make something of myself somewhere else and i think my my family were a lot like that whether my mum and dad was
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successful or not they were always to us make something of yourself be something
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nothing there's no there's no barriers to that so that's the way i've always kind of thought about things what if it what if
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i said to you now how would you feel if i said you couldn't ever do anything else and that like the football thing was it and now
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just i just laugh i'd laugh it would make me laugh because i i don't see no i don't see barriers yeah and
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unfortunate as well by the way i understand that i've got to a position where there are a lot of boundaries that have been kind of put down
00:09:29
yeah yeah for me to skip over because of my career as a footballer yeah and you you're getting that now as
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someone who's been really successful in your field so you see that color and age et cetera get
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put to the side because i always we acknowledge what you've done yeah yeah yeah and so we do sometimes have a easy there's not as big a barrier
00:09:47
to entry for certain things for us but then you've still got to go in and produce you've still got to go and prove yourself and so even things that i've
00:09:54
i've gone on the board now for a company the gym group as a ned oh really yeah which is it's out of my comfort zone because i like
00:10:05
fitness but i don't understand the business behind that and what goes into having actual having 125 180 sites
00:10:13
and managing that and there's a property arm and there's a commercial run and there's a market and that all coming together under one
00:10:18
umbrella and having to manage all that and to be a part of those conversations like that stuff is what excite i i'm super
00:10:24
interested in that type of stuff in the workings behind the mechanics of all these type of businesses different
00:10:29
different industries so that's what i like do you feel like you're depth yeah but i always find something what i can clear on to that i just try and find something within a conversation that would
00:10:42
allow me to to to to gain confidence through talking in that conversation i might not understand everything and when the conversation's finished and the laptop's closed i'll
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i'll be somewhere looking and finding out i didn't understand that i'll call that person back or call someone on that on that call
00:11:00
just to clear up a few things i haven't quite grasped but there'll be something within that
00:11:05
conversation where i feel that i can add some sort of value i think all of that is a com is a very again very synonymous as to why you're
00:11:12
like even sat here today because a lot of people in that situation would a just [ __ ] avoid it from the jump
00:11:17
and then b if they encounter something they don't understand on the call they'll probably bounce then or
00:11:22
they definitely wouldn't inquire because by inquiring you're actually making yourself vulnerable yeah yeah a lot of people don't want to
00:11:27
avoid vulnerability right being exposed and it's so funny that the people that from what i'm hearing from you like the people that achieve the most success are the ones that are at some point willing to look [ __ ] stupid yeah you
00:11:38
gotta do that like no one gets to where they're gonna get on the cleanest without a bump on the road yeah you
00:11:43
don't get like that you have to have bumps in the road to be able to get there to experience them vulnerable moments so that when you are
00:11:50
there you know what it's like and then you can drag people up with you yeah yeah and you become stronger with
00:11:55
more people that's how i always think there's a lot of people when i get to the top and stay on the top of the mountain on their own and don't want to bring no one
00:12:00
up i don't agree with that i'm always like i want to share and help and because that is the foundations of me being stronger
00:12:06
for a longer period of time and can sustain success but it is it is i don't know it's another an important thing for me as well which i'm again i'm never scared to do is to ask
00:12:17
questions like it's the same thing with football you don't understand something my manager's telling you our coach is
00:12:23
telling you don't go away and and have a bit of a blurred idea of what it is because then you're going to be judged on that not understanding and not executing it's
00:12:34
going to repeat exactly so you want good habits but you've got to understand what it is before you can create a habit
00:12:40
so that's why i'll try and always ask questions if i'm if i'm wrong if i feel i'm not sure and i'll definitely
00:12:45
ask questions not crazy you've achieved all the success you're a football legend and yet you're still
00:12:50
voluntarily throwing yourself into really uncomfortable situations which you don't need to be in yeah in terms of finance anyway like you
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don't need to be at all in terms of like a status you don't need to be there and it's funny because
00:13:02
there's loads of people that aren't haven't achieved that that are that will never throw themselves into
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uncertainty but it's it's but again this is probably why they're the ones that stay where they are yeah exactly that's probably
00:13:13
why you sat here yes they don't grow they don't yeah and like and all those people who will stay there some of them are like oh i just
00:13:19
want to stay here but a lot of them they're scared to open up because of that vulnerability and them feeling silly
00:13:24
if they're told that you got it wrong but it's not i i'm not like that everyone's on this
00:13:30
earth for different reasons and then some people happy just to be like stay in a situation they're in and
00:13:35
be very happy just going along that that road and no spikes or drops i i'd rather have a drop at some point but to get i know that spike's gonna come somewhere through being able to do the things
00:13:48
we're talking about quick one starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted we're going to start bringing in some of our subscribers to
00:13:54
watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes means you get to meet the guests meet myself and see how we put all of this
00:14:00
together if you want that to be you all you've got to do hit the subscribe button
00:14:05
in your in your group front group chat with your friends from uh from your estate i heard there's a group chat um you've been doing the research
00:14:14
i didn't need to research your career because i was there watching but just you know it was i was intrigued by when you said
00:14:19
you got this group chat with your your friends from back home and stuff and one of the topics of conversation is something that
00:14:24
i talk about a lot in this podcast which is there's a growing culture of like softness there i say it and like avoiding discomfort and also there's this crazy thing on
00:14:34
instagram at the moment which is like demonizing hard work as if it's like because of the mental health
00:14:40
revolution we've had and everyone's which is a great thing and everyone's aware of the impact you know of this thing called mental
00:14:45
health there's now this other thing which is like well you can overwork and you can burn
00:14:50
yourself out and hard work if i advise as an entrepreneur even though i've never met someone or had anyone sit in the seat who didn't
00:14:56
work hard then i'm somewhat toxic because i'm telling people that's success and hard work yeah yeah and it's
00:15:03
like you're you're you're looking down on people yeah almost like and i listen i don't agree with none of that
00:15:09
i've got to be honest work hard man that should be just an absolute normal ask of any person and
00:15:16
that and that i always keep talking about my kids because they're a big part of my life but that's all i talk about my kids when they talk
00:15:22
to me about school football washing up you chill that's what's been one of the great things that
00:15:27
we've had a lot of negativity about the covid uh situation in this country staying at home etc at home schooling
00:15:34
and one of the great things to come out of it for us as a family these kids know their chores and they're
00:15:40
doing them properly and that's why i say do your choice right because them habits there will lead on to
00:15:45
other things in your life going forward your football stuff you won't take short short cuts you're taking shortcuts over your work shortcuts for your football
00:15:52
shortcuts make in your bed shortcuts with your school work homework et cetera it will all be the same you need high
00:15:59
standards everywhere but are you scared that because they've grown up within a different circumstance to what you had
00:16:04
well i always have you true this conversation what you're not going to say yeah like i'm trying to instill that in
00:16:11
in them how do you do that when they live that's like a really nice house and they've got that is
00:16:16
that is the guy who comes up with this the the the answers for that is the main man right because it's so
00:16:24
difficult i was doing a podcast yesterday with um eddie hearn oh yeah and he's like the
00:16:29
generation my children are so his father was well off successful and he was where my
00:16:35
children are now and he was saying like one of the things that he was he was scared of being that rich kid
00:16:41
yeah which i mean and so he done everything not to go out and work and to go and have a hard hard
00:16:46
hard-working mentality and to be a success himself our friend tomorrow is the same um
00:16:52
exactly so um all three of them by the way i like that all three of them come on your kids which i mean they are
00:16:58
exactly the same in terms of they've gone out to they never had to work their parents
00:17:03
would spoil them and they've all knuckled down and said yeah we've been given an opportunity
00:17:10
now you've got to go and execute and they've gone executed beyond belief yeah and i see mahmoud who's of boohoo
00:17:18
who's the father of omar and the guys and that's what i say to a man you must be so happy man
00:17:23
what do you mean your kids man what they're doing how hard they work created these wicked
00:17:29
businesses but you gave them opportunity but what they've done with that you can't you can't be disappointed
00:17:34
he said no man he said that for me to sit here and just see them what they're doing what they're doing that's where i want to be man
00:17:40
and it doesn't matter how much money you make or how big of a business business my success as a parent is that my kids
00:17:46
get up every day they got a work ethic and they do stuff to the best of their ability if they can
00:17:52
if they do that whether whatever job they're in they do that and i think you've done
00:17:57
you've laid the foundations for good a good life for your kids whether it's in you know you talk there about having high standards been one of the really important things for your kids this is something that clearly you know
00:18:07
was demonstrated when you got to old trafford and you joined manchester united um with for that record transfer
00:18:13
but how did how did they create high standards at old trafford versus the other clubs you'd played at
00:18:20
what you know west ham and leeds etc what was it they were doing that kept those standards so high you
00:18:25
then also talk about going to qpr and seeing low standards and a certain type of negativity in the
00:18:30
changing room but what was it that they were doing or not doing because i want to create high standards in my team and within my
00:18:36
life so [Music] good habits right every day good habits whether it's punctuality again work ethic attention to detail intensity
00:18:49
when you're training on a training pitch respecting each other but all those things just they come
00:18:55
together and it creates a culture at the club and i've been at west town i've been at leeds two very good clubs great clubs um
00:19:06
but they they didn't have that that culture which meant there was ability to win but
00:19:13
it starts from somewhere so alex alex ferguson already won aberdeen so he he knew how to create that culture
00:19:18
he went to maine united didn't have that winning mentality at the time when he went there he created that and it all stems i
00:19:25
always think great leadership is definitely what gives you an opportunity to be successful and i i noticed that throughout my career and
00:19:34
when you've you've set the foundations and you've created that culture you don't as a as a leader have to be there every day
00:19:40
in that sense he was at a training ground every day how many times do you think he came into our change room no idea
00:19:46
you wouldn't fill one hand really no never came in a change room in the training ground we're there every
00:19:51
day because he he knew that the culture was set and then he had lieutenants like me giggsy gary neville etc who were
00:19:58
then filtering that down to any of the younger players on the new signs who didn't know the culture yet and then then those players became the the culture leaders and so it was it was
00:20:10
crazy man and even for instance if he wasn't at the training ground watching training the training intensity might drop that
00:20:15
little one percent two percent but you'd notice it because the manager's not there because he wasn't in the building
00:20:21
because he wasn't he didn't you didn't feed him that aura that he could be on his phone making bets which he normally would be not
00:20:27
interested in training but his presence alone was enough and it just made when you look back and you think this leadership is just key
00:20:34
and we're talking about investing earlier yeah you know investing in the the leader the people yeah the people
00:20:40
like it's so important i think and i think every industry it's like that football's where i'm from and that's
00:20:45
what it's like there but i see what since i've retired that's replicated in other industries hundred percent isn't it funny as well
00:20:51
with culture because you're right what you said there is basically like what i've something i used to think of social change which is if a culture is strong
00:20:57
enough new people become like the culture if this culture is weak the culture becomes like the new people 100
00:21:03
yeah i mean you couldn't have put it any better and i'll give you an example like
00:21:11
and again i didn't i didn't say it as eloquently as that one husband football but
00:21:16
berbatov came to maine united oh yeah casual babs he was wicked player beautiful touch
00:21:22
sexy looking footballer wicked and before big champions league again my fingers barcelona
00:21:28
he just weren't working hard enough for the team and i need i had the ball on this side of the pitch and i needed him to come over
00:21:34
and help he's just walking that and i ended up just kicking the ball off and going crazy
00:21:39
will you do get over wait when i get over then we'll do it and that's again that's
00:21:45
not our culture at barcelona they play they wait that's their culture that's not our culture
00:21:51
you want to play barcelona away go barcelona here it's not the same and if you don't buy into our culture
00:21:57
you won't be here long and that's the way it was at united if you came and you weren't in the co you didn't buy into the culture
00:22:03
and immerse yourself in it and become part of the fabric of the place you weren't there more than a year or
00:22:08
two or you definitely wasn't an integral member of that squad and so it was definitely like you say
00:22:15
the culture is just you have to become part of that culture that you go into if it's strong enough
00:22:20
you see this in business it's crazy you should do i feel like the perspective you've got from being in that changing room and understand because this it's
00:22:26
the same principles in business it was the same at social chain and when we grew the company and i realized that
00:22:31
i had to be like did you drive that a hundred percent and my like it got to the point where
00:22:37
what you've described is people would understand who we were without us having to say and you'd have your disciples basically
00:22:43
introducing new people to the company and going that's not a social chain thing to do and we'd get that all the time you'd say your people in office
00:22:49
okay and for example and the crazy the other point i was going to say is when the culture's that strong you it's
00:22:54
so easy to see when someone doesn't fit well they don't stand out we had you know someone start on their first day at
00:23:00
social chain and they're doing their initiation and then they at the end of the initiation they did two middle fingers and then
00:23:06
walked back to their desk i said go get him we fired him he's gone first day at social chain and then the second the second instance where and it
00:23:11
sends a message to the team because they i never knew it was instinctive to me i said that's not the same person get them out there was
00:23:17
another instance where we had a girl join who someone had hired and they told me that she used to like bully people at
00:23:23
her last place and she had like a really bad attitude and stuff and actually one of the guys two of the guys in our team said oh yeah we used to work with her
00:23:29
and she was a bit of a bully so uh i i remember having the conversation and i said you can't
00:23:34
like in a very very nice way i said she she can't be here tomorrow because that's not who we are here and that my team were like but we need her
00:23:41
for this client we need her for this project i was uncompromising i said no we're not having her here i don't care if we lose the job you know
00:23:47
i can't i say to my team i can't have my name attached to a culture like where we have people in it
00:23:53
who are like that so she's gone today we'll figure it out if we lose the client whatever and and it wasn't until
00:23:59
years later that you hear the team come back to you and they say that moment where you you weren't willing to let that person be needed in the team because they
00:24:04
weren't right for the culture the team said that to me and that's exactly what i hear from you i'm not blowing to make up my own ass because i
00:24:10
didn't realize that you've recognised that it was it was it wasn't intentional it was i just
00:24:15
wanted to enjoy my life in the company to be a really really clear certain way and i felt that that's what we needed to
00:24:20
do to succeed and in hindsight and as you say it to me i'm like oh yeah it was being unnegotiable right yeah and
00:24:27
that's what cerex ferguson was great at if he saw something that was going to be detrimental to the culture of the club
00:24:33
it was out that was non-negotiable even if you needed them so you look at roy keane yeah he's the
00:24:38
captain was the leader the rule's been broken you're gone david beckham peak of his powers going out of a spice girl bringing all sorts of eyeballs to the
00:24:50
football club making an international play see you later yap stam the best center
00:24:55
half in the world at the time said something about some of the players in a book or something goodbye
00:25:01
rude van isteroy the best number nine in the world at the time goodbye like if you don't
00:25:08
fit the culture and you don't adhere to the rules that are there good night and we'll move on and we'll
00:25:14
build around other people it's great it's like and where at the time you sit there and you think bex you
00:25:20
can't sell beck's man jesus who's going to come in like it's like number seven sells all the shirts like
00:25:26
everyone loves him everywhere we go bex is like beatles like crazy same with rudra and history you're thinking how are we going to score goals now man who's gonna squash the goals rooney and and ronaldo are really young
00:25:38
still inexperienced but he had that belief and that vision just to like it was the culture over
00:25:44
everything that's a big club no one's bigger than the club it's so true man and again like you say that reverberates
00:25:51
around a dressing room right you better stay in line you better just like live by the rules that are
00:25:57
here already and stay part of that culture the hard work the intensity the respect and so that you
00:26:05
he would dig out the most experienced player who hasn't even done anything and you'd sit there and go what like
00:26:11
what are you shouting me for but he was doing that to you because he knew you could take it but the effect that i have
00:26:16
on the young ones or the other ones which i mean so playing the mind games man i love it it's good but you only
00:26:22
it's the mad thing is anyone you're in it like you're saying you're talking about social change you probably didn't realize at the time
00:26:27
but when you sit back and you're outside and you look back in that bubble you think
00:26:32
[ __ ] man yeah that's why i didn't think about it but that's why i've done it yeah he's right yeah and i'm right now or i'm wrong whatever it is i mean that's how we think about like
00:26:42
certain things that fergie done you think actually he weren't just lucky man he actually obviously was
00:26:49
plotting and planning that type of stuff i am i wonder how much of that stuff was
00:26:54
intentional with him though in terms of like he i'm sure he wasn't going in the back room and planning it it's just like
00:26:59
surely it's just like who he was and i sometimes think you know you get managers that will come into clubs and they'll try and be like fergie
00:27:06
but you can't because you can't act for that long and that consistently because from what you're saying about fergie it's like it's not like four
00:27:12
things he's doing it's a thousand things he's doing consistently which show his values right and you can't act for 27 years
00:27:19
whatever it is across a thousand touch points so it makes me feel like how do you teach that like it was it
00:27:25
wasn't phil almost was like it wasn't just instinctive to fergie yeah i think it was instinctive he was he's that's just him and don't forget
00:27:32
his experience as well would have played a big part in that he was at the club for like 26 or so years 27 years so that's there's a
00:27:38
valuable amount of experience gained in that time but i always look at it like when i went into the main united change room i sat
00:27:44
there and just looked around and thought who's good at what and let me just take elements of
00:27:50
these people and add it to my my game and my preparation and my recovery and that's
00:27:56
what i've done ryan giggs was great at recovery and preparation done yoga and stuff like that took that out of these
00:28:02
of his book roy keane leadership the way he demanded standards on a daily basis skulls these
00:28:08
best levels in training every day like all them think i was just trying to try to be like little peop parts of
00:28:13
different people and then that allows hopefully for you to grow into a better person a better player etc
00:28:19
and i think that's the same with with other industries and business since i've retired it's like
00:28:26
you go in and try and be like someone else you're gonna fail because you can't be like the original but if you're
00:28:31
taking bits from elsewhere you might be able to get beyond that what you see as the best because you're getting more you're taking more good
00:28:36
things from that person but then from various other people to build maybe past that and that's the way i try and
00:28:42
work with stuff now in my life there's no one person i'm going to make that's going to make me the best at what i want to be but a
00:28:49
group and taken from everywhere i've got a better chance people never talk about the things that fergie was bad at well roy keane does
00:28:56
but other than that i never hear people saying and i've got his book somewhere knocking around as well but you never hear players talking about
00:29:02
some of the things where you think you know i actually think he would have gone been more successful if he didn't do that thing
00:29:09
do you know if it's weird when people die or when people retire yeah you only remember the good stuff
00:29:14
really interesting you only think about what they their their existence before becomes
00:29:20
magnified and you they're built up even bigger sometimes and fergie i think that's with him as
00:29:26
well because you just don't you don't think i can think of instances or or tactics you've got wrong
00:29:33
that's easy to find but but he'd always make stuff right it was weird like um even for instance the anti-racism stuff and the situation was only sort of documenting my brother yeah yeah yeah so
00:29:47
he went to a couple awards actually yesterday as well yeah so he um the situation happened with him and john terry and i decided not to wear the next or
00:29:58
one of during that period once a year all the teams are given t-shirts show races and the red card or
00:30:04
kick racism out one of the campaigns i wasn't willing to wear it because i didn't believe that they
00:30:09
supported enough in the durian that's that time so i said i'm not wearing it he went crazy find me i was like
00:30:18
we end up winning the game which was okay was lucky but the next day i went into his office to just try and
00:30:24
explain to him why i hadn't won the t-shirt and to be fair he said you know what i understand and i'm sorry for the way i reacted but like stuff like that he might make a
00:30:36
mistake or he'd done that wrong but he'd always rectify it always come back around you get you back around somehow
00:30:42
and because he was just like a i don't know he just he knew how to deal with people he knew
00:30:47
how to treat people to get the best out of him for what he's main goal was how'd you teach that i don't know man that's just i think that's something that's inside being able to deal with people read
00:30:58
people treat your team do i mean so that they're running through brick walls for you because you
00:31:04
come in a room and he'd say to you you're not playing and i'd be you'd want to scream and you'd be like blood would be boiling
00:31:12
but you'd leave the room and you're going to change room and you're sitting in there gene
00:31:17
everyone up come on boys not sulking because he's told you tuesday you're playing because i need you for that game
00:31:24
you missed this one this is a big game but you're going to play on tuesday like normally you miss a game you you
00:31:30
want to go home and cry about it i mean but he's managed to build you back up and that's my management
00:31:35
and in any industry that's that's like a massive part of again the culture but maintaining
00:31:42
sustaining a successful company of a successful football club you need to be able to build people pick
00:31:47
them up knock them down sometimes but be able to keep them on that track with you the contradiction i hear with within
00:31:52
like the story you recount of sir alex versus the one i see in the newspapers is you hear about the you know kicking the football boot at beckham and this
00:31:59
guy who on this who on the sidelines looks like he's out of control but what you're describing
00:32:04
is like super self-aware yeah calculated and he's actually pretending to be out of control when he needs to be we used to talk about all
00:32:10
the time sashimi and emmanuel vidic and veda is a deep guy loves talking about deep style gets deep into stuff yeah he loves it like it's just a matter he just loves like to
00:32:22
be on behind well how is he thinking about that etc just always talk about the manager and
00:32:28
like you look back and say anything everything he done was like calculated like the way he spoke on the tv blaming the ref so very rarely did he come on he didn't
00:32:39
come on tv and ever hammer none of the players individually we could lose a game and the referee
00:32:45
would be the [ __ ] the back page the next day but he's taking the heat of us he's
00:32:50
making us think about it's not us we're not down in the doldrums it's because of the referee that's dangerous
00:32:55
sometimes you've got ideas about yourself accountability but he makes there's enough self accountability in the
00:33:00
building but also the focus is over there now not on us as a team so we go again
00:33:06
without that pressure oh they've lost they're not as good anymore but the referee was a reason so i mean
00:33:11
just like that's just like calculated this is what i'm doing for the goodness of my team and the betterment of my team
00:33:17
is good man but people think anger and like you were a player that wasn't wasn't afraid to shout someone i heard you talking about
00:33:23
some of the players you gave a hard time like anderson et cetera what what is still yeah in the what's
00:33:29
that group yeah really yeah what role does anger play in leadership then because you see it in football
00:33:34
but if if i were to start screaming at people in the same way that you did to i don't know berber
00:33:40
or whatever imagine if i just [ __ ] kicked this table and said what the [ __ ] the camera is not working i would be i'd
00:33:46
be cancelled everyone would walk out yeah i talk about this with my missus quite a lot now we like
00:33:51
some of the stuff that we are when we're talking about memories and whatnot and how we spoke to someone so or what's happening in the change room
00:33:57
would never happen in the office because it's like you say it's like that that relationship's over it's gone too far whereas you could have
00:34:04
a fight at football and then you're shaking hands and having a laugh in the shower after it's so different it's just a different
00:34:10
way of of working but i think it's understanding people i don't think you treat any two people the
00:34:16
same in that sense like the blanket treatment i don't think is the best way to treat a
00:34:22
team because everyone's different everyone takes advice differently everyone takes criticism differently so you've got to be able to
00:34:29
pick the right people to be able to shout out to pick the right people you've got to get an arm around and and that's about as again a manager
00:34:35
a captain knowing that team knowing that play that the players individually all this coming into work and ghosting
00:34:42
everybody is mad i don't get it i don't think you can create that environment for success if you're going to come in
00:34:48
and not know nobody and that's another one of these so alex's great traits is that he knew
00:34:54
everything about everyone like if you're you're my granddad i was in hospital once met my granddad
00:34:59
probably twice in the uh players lounge after a game knew my granddad's favorite drink brandy
00:35:07
the flower was turned up on my mom's house which i mean it's like that stuff there then people are coming
00:35:13
to work for you every day after stuff like that it's little things little details not any time out of your
00:35:18
diary really his pa probably done it all yeah but his name's at the bottom it's like big it's little
00:35:26
little percentages like that are just a key it's funny because those little gestures help help you know
00:35:32
that he does care about you regardless of what happens on the training ground or in the match fundamentally he cares about you and wants you to do well and he's
00:35:38
you know what i mean you're not enemies you are in so i think by him saying that's the foundation it's
00:35:44
clear that having that as a foundation allows him to put pressure on in the right places it seems
00:35:50
yeah and he and you're not his mate yeah ever well really no you're not you're not he's mate i speak to him more now than i did when i played
00:35:56
really because there was that line and that he felt was always needed to be there that we can have a little laugh
00:36:03
here and there but in the end of the day i'm the manager you guys do your thing there and have a
00:36:09
laugh etc but then there's that line you don't go past so but you just got it right and i think
00:36:14
that's down to experience as well he would have learned that and a lot of the guys so you say he was he was even
00:36:19
crazier before you guys came when he was younger so he's obviously work and he worked out as well did the new
00:36:26
generation of player couldn't take that anger and that craziness like the old generation like probably my
00:36:37
generation probably the last generation that he could do that with the next ones the younger ones the andersons the nannies the ronaldo's etc
00:36:45
that's not the way that they would they would they don't respond as well to that type of
00:36:51
criticism and anger and aggressiveness what was that anguish you ever saw him too many times not too many times the times when he kicked the boot at bex's head was it was a and you're in that crazy one yeah that
00:37:05
was crazy what happened wouldn't it be great if we could make looking after yourself your nutrition
00:37:11
and your health cool again and i think this is ultimately what hule has done in my life and as i reflect on the last couple of
00:37:17
years that huel has been the easiest way for me to become a better human and for
00:37:22
me being a better human meant having better health it meant better having mental health more energy being more focused in my
00:37:27
work and that's exactly what you've done for me i hope we can make being healthier cool especially as we emerge from this
00:37:33
lockdown where we've all realized how important and foundational health is and i think here's a great way to do
00:37:38
that try it out give it a go everyone that has you know get lots of photos on instagram and twitter of people that have tried your
00:37:44
and started their huel journey brings a little bit of joy to my heart because not only have you um are you a listener of the
00:37:50
podcast but also because i know that you're on a journey to make your your life and your health a lot better and that if you know think about all the
00:37:56
sponsors i could have had to have a sponsor that i genuinely believe can help you change your life is a privilege um that i'm glad to know
00:38:03
what was that angriest you ever saw him too many times not too many times the times when he kicked the boot at bex's head was a and you're in that crazy one yeah that was crazy what happened
00:38:16
it was uh it was mad it was it was funny man it was actually funny i gotta be honest i can't lie
00:38:22
but the manager was he kicked the boot in anger because he asked bex to do something tactically that he didn't carry out
00:38:29
and he booted and listen anybody i don't care what ronaldo's playing today on messi wouldn't have hit the target the way hit
00:38:35
the target it was it was so clean and the ball went in slow-mo like bang and it hit him in the head and then obviously beck scott was upset got up and i remember the gaffer was devastated you
00:38:48
could tell he could see when he looked at him he sat down he was just slumped almost like he that's not what he'd done he
00:38:54
kicked the boot for he kicked it in anger and it accidentally hit backs in the head so he looked devastated of it but
00:39:00
that was one that was i had a few scrapes of him in terms of i didn't agree with things that he'd
00:39:05
done a couple of times and i was screaming and he didn't he didn't take too well to it and he lost it and he just would go purple
00:39:12
over the top of you and just spray you screaming in front of you like that like crazy so but he was uh what it was it was never personal which is that why you
00:39:23
respected it and you kind of it kind of it kind of always was washed away because
00:39:28
he you knew that deep down he wanted just want you to do well i mean it wasn't vindictive it wasn't
00:39:34
personal just do what i'm telling you to do you will win i heard you say that that
00:39:40
culture isn't there now it's it's all friendly now on it everyone's mates everyone's like for
00:39:46
instance everyone's mates and commenting on each other's posts on social media so you're more attached to someone you're more involved with someone
00:39:59
whereas before i would only see certain players twice a year home and away so i've got no attachment
00:40:05
to you so for to me have a bit of venom or to go at you a little bit was normal and i've got
00:40:10
no qualms about doing that because i ain't going to see you again don't care i might see you at england camp or
00:40:15
something like that but i don't i slack three or four times a year so we're colleagues exactly
00:40:21
we're not really matey whereas now in the tunnel they're all shaking cuddling yeah man comment on your post you have a
00:40:27
day it's very different i'm not saying it's bad but it's just different is it bad so i don't know it's just like it's it's
00:40:33
different so going into into battle into a game i've got no emotional ties or no social
00:40:40
media ties to anybody so i can there seemed to be that bit more it i don't know if there's more passion before to now but it seemed to be like
00:40:51
there was yeah because i think all of this stuff is social media makes it a bit more fluffy
00:40:56
and people are hugging and shaking hands and whatnot now because they've spoken or had a
00:41:01
message or liked a post very different me my my friends at my manchester united chat when uh
00:41:07
one of the observations that we have all the time is like why is why is everyone been so nice to each other and you i remember last week there was a
00:41:14
tweet went out from one of the united um press people and it was just a quote something harry mcguire had said
00:41:19
on the field and he basically screamed i don't know someone else yeah i need to like get [ __ ] back in line or whatever
00:41:25
it's like trending on twitter yeah yeah because i don't see it because you don't see it anymore and then and then also i you know love
00:41:31
him love him or whatever but watching uh ollie fist bump the managers with a smile on his face
00:41:37
we've been grown up as united fans with us we would fergie would look [ __ ] furious to
00:41:43
even have to look at the opposing manager and and it just feels different now and then we look at where
00:41:49
we are and how we're performing in the big games and we're not winning like we used to and we're all saying oh that you know we're coming like arsenal or something
00:41:55
but we everyone always like clings on to the history in it and that's that's the problem as a football
00:42:01
fan i'm the same like you just want it to be like it was before please right but it's never going to be
00:42:06
the same it may be a successful or even more successful one day but it will never be the same
00:42:11
so our expectation then we'll sometimes just have to change a little bit but yeah i mean again like it was coming in anyway because like for instance i remember joe rpk hugging
00:42:22
and fist pumping et cetera in the tunnel with fabregas and we were mad rivals we've asked on
00:42:28
that point like pizzagate and all that stuff and he got hammered after that pk in our change room are you doing
00:42:34
before a game you're sitting in a chat a lot or or without make fun of him a little bit there's two different ways you
00:42:40
ridicule and get someone in line either humor or being firm and you probably got both but it was it
00:42:47
was that was a you could sense a change coming it was coming and obviously social media i think has accelerated that definitely
00:42:54
ed woodward as well there's a lot of controversy surrounding him at the moment again because for better for work
00:42:59
no not yet no yeah when the when uh when we can travel a little bit more we'll uh i think he'll he'll come on but um i remember hearing the story about the exit treatment that you had with him
00:43:11
and i wondered if you were still somewhat bitter about that i heard you know one of your last games at the club and he comes into the training room and
00:43:17
tells you that you're you're not going to be playing for the club anymore you didn't get your send off yeah of course i think there's no
00:43:23
there's nothing that anyone could tell me that wouldn't make me feel that was the wrong way
00:43:28
would fergie have done that no thank you zero no you'd have told me before the end of the season because you know what it mean but
00:43:35
the difference is that fergie was a footballer and he knows what it means he knows what it is
00:43:41
to be able to say thank you for your support etc just have that little runway to ascend
00:43:46
off now listen i understand not everybody can have it that way but if you've got if you know and you've got the opportunity to give someone the best
00:43:52
possible route out of a situation you give it to them and my situation i think it was you could see down the line
00:43:58
from month a month two months before that that you knew what was gonna happen with me so give me the opportunity to have the
00:44:05
best possible send off given the time given the relationship that i built with the club so that was my my only discrepancy of
00:44:12
the whole way it worked out because it wasn't like oh actually a knee-jerk situation knee-jerk decision so but i
00:44:18
think listen ed knows how i feel about it but we've moved on past that i'll speak to him on
00:44:24
the phone about various different things anywhere we meet up sometimes so it's cool but those small moments that's an
00:44:31
isolated incident but that's that isolated incident is attached to a wider philosophy
00:44:38
in the same way that fergie had this like wider philosophy of like you know sending your your granddad the the flowers and that's
00:44:44
a tattoo wider philosophy so although that's just one instance i think the risk that i would see and when i hear things like that i think
00:44:50
well that same philosophy of like not really caring being that empathetic has got to be popping up in other places right like oh 100 and that again we've said culture about
00:45:00
10 times already in this conversation yeah but that's that's part of a culture yeah like there has to be like you say compassion
00:45:11
empathy respect as a family right like that's what the club was and that was the way i used to explain
00:45:16
man united i left leeds which was like a family a small i say this is a smaller version
00:45:22
without obviously the success but a smaller version in terms of the people here been here for 30 years 40 years 20 years
00:45:28
my dad used to work here my mom used to work here that's a family club man united was that when i was there
00:45:35
my fear is that it becomes something else some of the waiting stuff i had a box at my united mm-hmm
00:45:41
and it's funny this is a staggering thing but for me because you don't think of you know the waiting staff in the box are gonna
00:45:48
notice a cultural shift at the club right but they would tell me they they said to me you know when fergie and
00:45:54
david gill were here it was different how did it touch the waiting staff that served me because
00:46:00
they know all their names yes that's what they said to me they know all their names they had a relationship david gilman had
00:46:06
a relationship with the the person giving me a steak and it and i just thought that was staggering that this you know
00:46:11
anything like how strong the culture must be and how important it must be for the waiter giving me you know some chips to be like
00:46:17
it's different now the dinner lady at the training ground i actually spoke to her on the way here funny that's just me a voice note but it didn't lady carroll
00:46:24
she could have been with director manager or david gill like first name terms banter that had been spread over a number of years so they could go back and have a proper back and forth he knew the name of the
00:46:37
groundsman but it was like and and if if if i'm at man united now that is part where i'm going that that has to be recreated bring that back
00:46:49
because that's a strength like i said before about strength in numbers that's the foundation of the football club people come in that place and think
00:46:55
oh my god they're all made united here they're all feel part of it that that creates does that start with
00:47:02
fergie and david at the top yeah i think it has to and that's why i look back on things like that and like
00:47:08
you you speak to any of the people that work there that was a big part of it because everyone thinks
00:47:14
it's the is the first eleven the the team the squad the first team that play that's the main united it's not it's the fans and it's all the people that work behind
00:47:24
the scenes to enable that first level and that team that squad to go out there and perform if there's people out around that aren't
00:47:30
working that's what the manager used to say all these people the kit man the physio nutritionist the dinner lady etc these
00:47:37
lot help you enable you to be successful so don't forget that i mean and all those people have an expectation of the performance and like the they all become winners like as a united fan growing up
00:47:49
i was like we win yeah 100 and and you know as a fan i was like you know we come and we win and then at some point when
00:47:55
fergie left i'm like i'm not sure really what happens sometimes yeah yeah and you know that crazy thing fergie had in the last
00:48:01
couple of minutes of every game where you thought we're gonna [ __ ] win this there's only two minutes left but somehow but you know like the things
00:48:06
i just mentioned there about the club as well that does that is a byproduct of success as well it that becomes easier
00:48:12
it's like a self-fulfilling yeah right exactly when you're winning it's like everything when you're successful and you're winning everything's kind of run smoothly
00:48:18
doesn't it yeah and then obviously when things start to go a little bit wrong you see so many more bumps in a row so many more
00:48:24
splinter groups come out and start pointing the finger etc so i just think that it's keeping it
00:48:34
getting that culture right and getting the people who feel part of the club and then you win with that as well there's no better
00:48:40
kind of then you've got to defend it right you've got to defend the culture again because the culture is the thing that made you win yeah and so you might get some big
00:48:47
people getting too big for their boots or whatever or distracted and then fergie's just got this great reputation of bit defending that culture
00:48:55
as the most important thing and are you that's people say why did he win how did he win for 20 odd years no one else has
00:49:00
managed to do that in the modern era and it's just that but it's it's i always put it down to as well things like dedication desire but he was always the first in a training ground
00:49:12
i tried to try and beat him to get a training ground sometimes take my kids to school and get there like we used to start like half nine you have
00:49:18
to be in a half nine i used to get in sometimes at eight o'clock and these cars there already
00:49:25
last to leave most of the time uh yes that's again that goes back to the point of saying about
00:49:30
showing your kids rather than telling them be early be it just be there you're there then they
00:49:35
know he's always there you can't be late why are you late the manager says he's been 26 years
00:49:41
and he's early every day and you're not he's obviously prepping like you don't do your prep work in the gym why i remember i keem pulled a meeting called a meeting because he thought the young players weren't
00:49:53
doing the extras and why are you going home before an ex that experienced player there that
00:49:59
we said to them yeah when you're you're in the start of the ladder what's we called an actual meeting yeah so that he just said to the lads
00:50:06
listen guys like after training all coming in or before training all come in a change room and everyone sat down and he's like
00:50:12
listen i've got to say it because i'm seeing it every day and it ain't good for the club some of you young boys i'm seeing you
00:50:18
and some even the older the players are a little bit older than that but how can you be going home before him
00:50:24
he's doing extras working outside or he goes in the gym or before training i see sansa doing that and you're just messing about in
00:50:29
in the uh canteen or something like that it's valuable time don't miss it short career things like that but that's
00:50:36
again the manager allowing people to manage a change room and that's how it was there you had people that managed to change
00:50:42
room and you had the manager that oversaw it all what was the difference between some players that arrive at manchester united
00:50:48
and ultimately end up reaching their potential and then some that don't and there's been a lot of you know well written about players that
00:50:55
never reached their potential is was there a commonality that you saw that made it because i'm like gary
00:51:01
neville i'm like he wasn't the most i like the guy he's actually managed me once in this charity game
00:51:06
like the guy but he didn't strike me as the most naturally talented player at work but he
00:51:12
felt yeah and then work dedication attention to detail application on a daily basis like this
00:51:20
is the thing a lot of people think i've worked hard for two weeks and i've got i haven't i haven't got any rewards out of it the manager's still not playing me i'll
00:51:25
give up no that's got to be we're talking before a lifestyle hard work every day is a
00:51:31
lifestyle that should be like the standard that's the standard that is here and you've got to be at that every day there's none of this taking your foot off the pedal because it's difficult carlos carroll
00:51:43
said to me you can't just switch it on and off like that mentality that intensity the
00:51:49
dedication the hard work on a daily but you can't just go i work hard on monday to wednesday thursday friday i'll just chill and then
00:51:54
saturday switch it on again habits lifestyle all the time like that so when it comes to match time it's not a big shift because your body can't do it that your mind can't deal with that if it's
00:52:06
normalized this is normal on a saturday three o'clock sixty thousand people screaming 100 million people around the world
00:52:11
that's not pressure do this every day one of the like alienating things when people might hear you talk and they think oh well
00:52:17
almost intimidating it's like well rio's mentality is just so [ __ ] like disciplined and you know
00:52:22
he's got it now and i did listen i weren't perfect this is what i was gonna ask tell me about tell me how you weren't perfect yeah i went
00:52:28
perfect it took me a long time to start understanding like your body understanding your mindset and my state of mind had to be
00:52:35
a tip-top condition both mentally and physically on a game day and west ham i didn't have it
00:52:44
leads i didn't have it because i was inconsistent i was really i trained hard but then i'd
00:52:50
be going out every every other night i'd go out four or five times a week parties pissed like west ham i don't remember a
00:52:57
lot of results or certain things when people say what about that game when you i actually can't remember i was that i
00:53:04
used to be out and get pissed so often and then i got to maintain and i just was surrounded by people that had won
00:53:10
and i was desperate to win so what do you do to win i'm gonna copy of him him him like we spoke about
00:53:17
before and then you become part of that and then you realize that none of these lot are going out all the time so if i'm gonna go out and continue that lifestyle i had before
00:53:30
my levels are obviously always going to be a bit below these guys because you can't sustain that you're always working from
00:53:35
a less from a lower standpoint so i changed that and listen i still made mistakes but my
00:53:41
intentions and my desire was to always be as good as i could be i wanted to be better than
00:53:47
veda vidic john terry sol campbell i need to be the best when people talk about the
00:53:53
best center back i need to be the first name on their lips so what what can i do i was not obsessed with it
00:53:58
you know i mean and why the lads wouldn't have probably known how obsessed i was with it because i would never show that really but inside
00:54:09
the thought that someone thought that someone else is a better center back than me used to like it would eat away at me why
00:54:15
because i just pride ego we all got egos you want to be the best and i was never ashamed myself to be to feel like that i'll say that that i didn't say it at the time because it
00:54:26
etiquette it's not the thing to do in american sports they do it they talk like that because i wish we was more because naturally i'm that type of
00:54:33
person i would say it i think i'm the best on it so i don't care that i would say now i thought i was the best centerback
00:54:39
but i was always i just wanted to be the best whether i was or not it's for other people to decide but i
00:54:45
was that was my always my intention you and vidic partnership a lot of my friends at the moment that's where i've been i'm a big fan of harry maguire and uh what he does mainly because i from what i hear he's
00:54:57
one of the only leaders in the back line like you know always shouting what was it that made you and vidic so successful
00:55:03
as a partnership because my friends they'll do anything to have you guys back what was it about you two because you're
00:55:10
known as in my opinion the best centre-back partnership we've ever had that's why i'm here because i knew you'd say that i
00:55:16
appreciate that man don't know man he had attributes that just complimented mine and vice versa
00:55:29
he was a he wanted to go and attack every ball okay when the ball got kicked in the skies
00:55:34
he just saw one thing and that was the ball and he was better at that than me okay
00:55:41
but i read stuff and would clean up around all of that and was more of i don't know i read the game
00:55:47
probably a little bit different to him and but at the same time i was capable of going up and winning the ball and then
00:55:52
he'd do that with me whether he was as good at me at cleaning up on that for other people to decide but like
00:55:58
i i don't know it was just we just compliment each other and what it was there was a pride about our defendant us too so you see a lot of
00:56:06
people it's like me i'm the best i want to be the best which is true but the overriding factor of me
00:56:13
wanting to be the best is that we don't concede and we're a partnership i'm going to be i've got your back and
00:56:18
that's what you just say before a game video you go up i'm behind you don't worry when i got you're behind me yeah
00:56:24
that's all it was all the time you challenge i'm behind you don't worry just go for the ball go for the man take the man and the ball
00:56:30
i'm here if it goes wrong and is that having that sense of security for each other there was a chant of vidiq's chat about
00:56:36
him being a bit of a murderer yeah yeah crazy how did he how did he feel about that and like yeah he's quite an
00:56:42
unassuming guy he's really like he's not really taken or by anything right did they say that
00:56:47
about me oh cool it's good not bad not bad and then carries on with laughs like he's really just
00:56:52
chilled man he's so different to what he's like if he's just a chill guy he's intense guy to be fair intense
00:57:01
and some players may have found him at times quite moody at times and just really like in with what he's doing
00:57:06
because he's so intense and he would really like to think about a lot of stuff and probably overthink
00:57:12
certain situations but i got on really well with him he's one of my my closest guys at maine united when i
00:57:19
was there from now yeah i talked to him now on the texts and stuff he's living in milan at the moment yeah one of the things that um has
00:57:26
happened since your playing days is there's been a huge rise in the conversation around mental health wasn't a conversation back then really
00:57:33
um even even for me growing up that didn't know what it meant i'll be completely honest i thought mental health was
00:57:39
um someone goes crazy psychiatrist yeah yeah just a stray jacket or something that's what i we always thought it was
00:57:45
that's all the depiction of someone that's lost their mind and um we've come to learn about it in a
00:57:50
much different way now we view it as a sort of intrinsic part of health but everyone has mental health and it it can sit on some
00:57:57
kind of spectrum right based on what happens um i was wondering back then like the players in that
00:58:03
dressing room they had mental health and they had mental health issues and stuff then but i'm guessing it was never addressed it
00:58:09
was never talked about or i i've done a documentary on bbc about like grief and bereavement and stuff and obviously mental health is a huge part of that
00:58:19
and i got to understand mental health through that journey of making a documentary
00:58:24
and understanding that when i played again mental health was not a thing at all and it was never considered there was no compassion and if you acknowledged your
00:58:37
mental health and started to talk about it as i have problems or an issue he was then seen as a weak link
00:58:44
whether it was spoke about or not he was there that would be the case that would be how you see that whole situation and so no one then talks about it
00:58:51
through fear of being called the weak link um and i look back now and think yeah
00:58:57
definitely if we had been more open enough we had today's thought process about mental health
00:59:05
would have got more out of certain players definitely really um yeah because louis sahar for instance
00:59:12
what a player yeah unbelievable footballer had injuries but along with the injuries that brought
00:59:19
a mental health problem for him and like a bit depressed and down and whatnot because he felt was letting everyone down that's what you feel when you're injured you feel you're letting your teammates down and it's hard to
00:59:31
deal with sometimes especially if you just keep getting little injuries and you come back you go again you come back and people start always always injured
00:59:38
mentally is not strong is he don't fancy it and you as a player you know them conversations are going on so you start
00:59:44
thinking about that and when people see you think he's always he's doubts me anyway and so that mental warfare that goes on
00:59:51
it could be sorted out through conversation not acknowledging certain things but you're
00:59:56
taught in a macho dressing room that talking is seen as a weakness back then i think there's big changes now like you
01:00:03
say the narrative now is very different so you'd like to think it's changing and clubs are more aware of that
01:00:10
i am i remember watching that documentary remember i think i remember where i was when i watched it because
01:00:15
it really really hit me um and like there's i don't watch a lot of tv but also i am
01:00:20
uh it's quite hard to make something impact me but because you were so vulnerable as someone that i you know grew up
01:00:26
watching as a kid and you were able to to be emotional it it yeah it really it hits it hits you
01:00:32
in a completely different way tell me about your thought process why you wanted to do that because i'm betting it wasn't easy right
01:00:38
no it was it was it was crazy it was hard man but it was it was mainly for my kids if i'm honest
01:00:46
and for everyone else because i wanted my obviously my kids lost they lost their
01:00:52
mum so again it's like most about the same point you can't just keep telling them
01:00:58
sometimes it'd be nice to have something you can just show them and that speaks for itself and it's visual as well and so they get
01:01:06
a clear idea of where we're all at where we was at and how we've got to this point of hopefully
01:01:12
a little bit of healing and on that journey we realized actually we're going to help
01:01:17
a lot of people here so many more than just selfishly our own family so it became like a real real i'm a positive journey for us in
01:01:29
that sense of of working out what it means to talk to communicate your feelings how much
01:01:35
benefit that is to you as an individual but also other people um working on relationships and how
01:01:41
it can change your relationship when you are talking and and so again it was a difficult
01:01:48
journey because you've got to open up like you say show that vulnerable side to you and and again that's probably again what
01:01:54
that's how we started the conversation i wasn't scared to do that it was a difficult situation but i
01:02:00
weren't scared of doing that because i knew at the end of the day my kids are going to benefit from this and whatever that
01:02:05
however this journey goes i'm willing to to be a part of it for that for that one reason
01:02:11
and then when it was when it when it was um finished and we when i bathed her in
01:02:17
the environment great part of it is that you walk down the street or you go down
01:02:22
the island sainsbury's or where tesco wherever it is and an old age lady or a man come up to you
01:02:29
you know what the tear in the eye or something like that and the throat's all croaky and i watched your program i've
01:02:36
never spoken before really you helped me that stuff that's the the reward that you get from something like
01:02:42
that that i didn't anticipate and you one of the things you you said when i was you know hearing you talk about mental health and really the i guess the crux of the documentary is that the healing comes
01:02:54
from opening up and communicating um and in fact you might never get over what happened and you don't necessarily need to but it's like when you take it out from the the closet in the back you know back
01:03:06
part of your mind because you were talking about compartmentalizing it yeah a lot and that was how you you were handling it at first and you
01:03:13
know i think a lot of the data shows that when you try and compartmentalize grief or never
01:03:19
but it comes at you in other ways right and it jumps in yeah you get bad habits you you fall into
01:03:26
holes that you never knew were ever possible to go down and then to get back out of them is it
01:03:31
becomes it like almost an impossible journey so it was it was and that's how i probably
01:03:37
would have been with a lot of stuff in my life before you just compartmentalize it you put it over there you don't think about it but you've never dealt with it
01:03:43
you've never got that situation out and unpacked it and then used it to bring some sort of
01:03:49
positivity to your life people don't want to open it though no because it's scary yeah vulnerable and today i'd rather just get through
01:03:56
today then unpack that stuff yeah and have to go through that stuff i have to go through them feelings their
01:04:02
emotions have to have that hurt a little bit again but i've we've said it to the kids all the time
01:04:08
like like sometimes crying is such a a relief sometimes and the weight of it that goes off your shoulder sometimes when you you do release that emotion is like it's crazy
01:04:20
you can't really put it into words what it feels like at times that you've had that then moments where
01:04:26
you felt really down or you're missing someone and then you have a little bit of emotional time on your own or with
01:04:31
friends or with family or whatever it is and then you there's a smile immediately comes sometimes out of the back of it
01:04:38
because you feel actually i actually feel better now i knew that you move on you carry on with your day but
01:04:43
it is it's a that type of situation that we've kind of been through it's never gone but you learn how to
01:04:51
deal with things that bit better all the time what are some of the sort of techniques you use to try when you do
01:04:57
feel down or you feel like you know there's something bugging playing on your mind and stuff and you might be getting anxious about something is there
01:05:03
anything that you've learned from your experiences that helps you um in those moments
01:05:08
like outside of talking or strategies or is there one of the things that i was um i've
01:05:13
started doing this that might sound really strange is when i so what will happen with me is something will be playing on my mind and
01:05:18
i try and tell myself how you can deal with that you're fine whatever and then three hours later in the shower and you're still thinking
01:05:24
about it and i know that it's gonna harm me if i don't like address it so i will literally that sounds like [ __ ]
01:05:29
bunkers first time i've ever said this i literally say it out loud and i have this like weird conversation with myself where i say steve like
01:05:35
you're feeling us go literally you're feeling like this because of this and this and yeah it's making you feel a bit like
01:05:40
you know it's making you feel a bit bad at the moment or whatever um but but then i try and reason with
01:05:46
myself as if i'm talking to someone else and it has really helped me um it's but it makes me feel like a nutter
01:05:52
yeah i understand what you're saying but you know unfortunately i've got an unbelievable
01:05:59
wife who i can talk to like communication is a massive part and where i've improved in my life hundred percent so i
01:06:05
that conversation you're having there i'll have with my wife and i'm lucky how she helped you with
01:06:11
that oh massively i don't probably tell her enough but like what she's brought to my life
01:06:18
in terms of being able to open up to communicate not only with her but with my kids now i speak to my kids
01:06:24
in a different way now in terms of because i know communicating and letting them show their feelings
01:06:30
trying to just always if there's a situation that's prince's mother's day just come obviously my house is quite i said my
01:06:36
mum passed away and the babies their mum passed away as well so mother's day is and then kate's a new
01:06:43
mum so there's so many dynamics in the house and that one day the emotional kind of energy in the house on that day is like through the roof and so to manage that and to
01:06:58
make it a a day where everybody's enjoying it and happy and celebrating mother's day is that's a
01:07:04
task in itself but talking to the kids we had a conversation on mother's day at the
01:07:09
table was eating food and stuff and it was like um my little boy was like oh like
01:07:16
i said to him like you don't post anything on on mother's day do you and he's not an emotional poster anyway
01:07:23
he just posts about what he likes like football and stuff and and whatever so he's like yeah i was
01:07:28
actually thinking of doing it this this um this mother's day but like obviously because like
01:07:33
i wasn't sure what to what to do like with kate and mum so i didn't know what to do and it was like hate almost like off you started crying
01:07:39
really because like i don't want you to feel like that post what you feel don't worry about no one else just post what you feel because no one
01:07:45
can tell you what you feel and you're not going to disappoint anybody do what you feel
01:07:51
which i mean and it's like those conversations i would never have had with my kids before because i just wasn't i wasn't in
01:07:57
that in that in that zone i was always very like again compartmentalized very closed closed but
01:08:04
emotionally zero coming out really like but that was condition because my dad was like that
01:08:09
all right so and we talk about that in the dark as well like my dad was very very he wasn't open with his feelings really
01:08:16
and old school very old school west indian man so that follows through generations so
01:08:24
see talking is and communicating with with the kids and kate and she's the one who's really brought that
01:08:32
since i've met her in that sense and i i'd never be able to thank her enough for that just that one element let alone the
01:08:38
other stuff that she's brought to the table you just you don't you don't talk to her and you think you might not talk to her enough though
01:08:43
i don't tell her enough maybe how would you how um i'll tell everyone else like all my mates know that she's been unbelievable
01:08:49
for us she's like oh you don't tell her i probably don't tell her enough sometimes right and that would sometimes have
01:08:55
conversations and she and i'll go yeah but i told someone so like you was like you done this oh
01:09:01
you told them before me right which is crazy really isn't it you should really just tell that person
01:09:07
why don't you i don't know it's the old me still about really probably yeah yeah
01:09:12
probably the old me still about i don't know and sometimes a bit like shy not shall i be embarrassed maybe i don't
01:09:17
know to say that yeah but it's yeah i should i will i will i'll send you the clip you can just let the clip get it she'll see this on it she's going
01:09:28
why didn't you just tell me like yeah that's true that's incredible um as a guy that's single me mm-hmm and has
01:09:36
struggled for very thinking [Music] yeah no not you so yeah as a guy that's single and struggled
01:09:41
over the years to to get into a relationship because i've been busy well this is what the [ __ ] i tell myself is commitment issues is it well well my
01:09:48
parents so there's there's a slight issue from my childhood where like my mum and dad used to scream each other all the time so i just learned that relationships were like prison because
01:09:54
my dad would sit there passively my mum's screaming in his face and i would i just learned that as a man
01:09:59
when you get a relationship you're in prison and your freedom's gone and i'm so i'm someone that alec really doesn't want to give up my
01:10:06
freedom and whenever i get close to that commitment i feel the fear which comes clearly comes from my
01:10:11
childhood but what are the things that you you know as a guy that is super successful over the last you know a couple of decades
01:10:18
and now he's running businesses and chasing a bunch of other ambitions that you have what are some of the things
01:10:23
you've learned about how to have a successful relationship as a busy guy one of them's communication i
01:10:29
guess but yeah communication but i think time management is massive as well really and yeah yeah time management like and
01:10:36
kate's helped with that as well like managing your diary like i'm busy i've got a lot of stuff running out that i enjoy and i'm one of them passionate
01:10:41
about which is key but i'm as passionate if not more about my family as well so managing that diary to make sure you've got quality time and you've got enough time with your family but also you know you're going to work is so
01:10:53
key but also the time when you're there be there okay i mean i speak to a lot of guys who
01:10:59
are managers a lot my friends are managers now and that's why i'll never go into management i don't think because
01:11:05
as a football manager you have to be you have to live it breathe it every minute like
01:11:11
that's the same in business but is it i don't know if with football i just find there's a different it's quite different that we're talking
01:11:18
about the way that people talk to each other at football it's different to an office there's elements that are probably different as manager i feel but
01:11:24
as a football manager you're at home you're having sunday dinner with your family but you're not there
01:11:31
yeah you're thinking about logistics you're thinking about the nutritionist does he sort things out
01:11:36
with the players that players are gonna be fit this week or not and he didn't fit that player just got injured at a week
01:11:42
and i can't believe it's thinking about how am i going to replace him for what formation am i going to play the other team have got a formation they
01:11:47
played different at the weekend i need to watch that video i need to watch that for that 90 minutes they played two games last week different i
01:11:53
gotta watch them games as well that's without thinking about like doing your team talk and doing
01:11:59
your tactics on a training pitch and setting up your training sessions for the week without thinking about any and so when
01:12:05
you're at home you're not home you're not there really you're physically there but mentally you're not there you might as well not
01:12:10
be there so i never i never wanted to get in that position especially given what we've been through so
01:12:16
um i definitely i just kind of wrote that off as being something i'll do because of that reason
01:12:21
and we were talking again before we start recording about your real deep uh desire to make sure that
01:12:28
football isn't the thing that you're you become known for right and i uh i i find that that fascinating but like
01:12:37
um it's a big mountain to climb right like to get known for some of the things you're doing now you're heavily involved
01:12:42
in business you're investing you've got five uh what are these what we talked about focus as well at the start of your
01:12:48
journey deciding that it wasn't going to be gymnastics it wasn't going to be bad you know ballet it was going to be football yeah what is it now so that's what i mean that situation
01:12:55
that scenario is almost replicating itself now i'm in that space right now so when my dad said to me what do you want to do
01:13:02
make a choice i've retired and the last four or five years i've been working out what i'm going to do
01:13:09
i'm trying this i'm trying that i'm not scared to try this i'm not going to try that if it doesn't work it doesn't work but then i know i'm not i'm not that's not
01:13:15
for me and i'm kind of getting to a place now where i'm starting to drill down and focus on a
01:13:21
couple of different spheres what are they saying to go down so the the the five youtube channel yeah
01:13:28
and creating that football hub that football place to be my foundation which goes into communities and gets kids that from disadvantaged backgrounds gives them
01:13:39
the opportunity to get an education and then the opportunity to get into work through the
01:13:46
relationships with a few of the commercial companies that i've built relationships with over the years
01:13:51
um what else there's the management company football management company so we've got
01:13:56
managers and players past and present that we managed for about 85 95 players um which is that's one of my passions and i get to mentor players within that which is the best bit for me where so for
01:14:08
instance england player michael keane ben godfrey mason holgate the murphy twins
01:14:15
uh even chris wilder i'll speak to as well but i get to mentor these players nice who i can have some sort of effect
01:14:22
given the experience that i've gained over the years so to have played that little role in a lot of these guys and i do that with the
01:14:28
premier league players and nationals two players that are from lower leagues or just starting on the journey who haven't made it yet
01:14:34
um we were 17 18 years old so they i get great kicks out of stuff like that as well
01:14:39
do you know which path you're gonna take i don't know i'd love to be able to do all yeah but i know it's not possible to be
01:14:46
super successful spreading yourself in like that so i will eventually go this is me it's funny because when i when i speak to you and i've spoken to you and obviously all my
01:14:57
punditry stuff of course yeah yeah which is actually given yeah when i speak to you when i spoke to you last time when we met a
01:15:03
couple out then a year or two again we were standing in the sea for about 35 about an hour i think i think we're talking remember you remember that in
01:15:08
dubai standing oh yeah i was talking about the other time yeah where like i came i came to like
01:15:13
roughly where you live you came to social chain one time yeah yeah yeah i came to where you lived and then i forgot the dubai time yeah yeah but
01:15:19
every single time when when i speak you look at me in a certain way and i can see it you're like
01:15:25
listening very and then you start asking questions around certain things and you're very very very very curious
01:15:31
and i've noticed this i feel it when i start talking you go you look at me like this um does the same thing yeah yeah
01:15:37
so you're you're a novel you do a lot of stuff you're you're doing this you've got a book coming out you're investing you
01:15:43
know you've sold it you've been a part of a company that was valued at 200 plus million pounds like you're doing so much stuff there's
01:15:48
a theater show you're doing or whatever you mentioned before so there's so much stuff that you're doing you're spinning
01:15:54
plates i find that exciting how the [ __ ] are you doing that i want to know i don't want to know like sometimes it's not even about what you're doing for me it's how you're doing it mm-hmm i mean
01:16:06
like even a podcast i'm just like all little things like that i love it so i don't know i'm i'll just i've got a curious mind in that sense definitely
01:16:18
when i was young i was curious to find out what nightclubs look like inside i mean that's all i wanted to do was
01:16:23
find out i want to get in nightclubs that's what i don't know west ham yeah so i mean you just a young player
01:16:29
just coming up in primary get invited to everything i was curious i mean but that's for the wrong reasons
01:16:36
you've not you've lived this crazy life right that you've lived a life that me as a young kid growing up in devon and plymouth i was you know watching my
01:16:42
little tiny little one foot tv with my brothers my three brothers sat there you know that was the life that i wanted
01:16:48
to lead and you've gone through that journey you've you've now come out the other end and you're doing all this other crazy stuff as you look back on the cut span of your
01:16:54
career you must now know that there's certain fundamental things that matter and a lot of [ __ ] that doesn't what are the things that matter i used fiverr once a month before they
01:17:06
became a sponsor on this podcast and since they've become a sponsor on this podcast and i've delved into what
01:17:12
the site does and how all the services work and the vast array of things that you can achieve on fiverr using
01:17:17
freelancers around the world i swear on this dog's life pablo my dog here who sat on my lap if you can't see
01:17:23
i swear in his life that i've used fiverr at least once a week for the last three
01:17:28
months we've built so many websites we've designed so many decks we've had video clips edited we've had subtitles produced if you haven't checked out fiverr before
01:17:39
hit the link in the bio fiverr.com ceo go to the website check it out and every single time i do this podcast one person who dm's me with a service
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week will have that service paid for by me you must now know that there's certain fundamental things that matter
01:18:08
and a lot of [ __ ] that doesn't what are the things that matter because i'm a little bit earlier on so
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i'm still figuring out some of these things i'm like oh look money this is interesting you know like
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health man really health is the it's the biggest the biggest it's the biggest thing because when you're healthy you're so happy we spoke about before
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like confidence it breeds how happy you are and it energizes you but if you're not
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healthy it can be devastating so health is a massive thing which i probably i didn't
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consider for many years probably till we hit that bad patch in our lives um i took it for granted pandemic now has been another pandemic is an absolute like if you wasn't awake
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then you are woken now to health and what does that mean for you in terms of staying healthy now
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well we spoke about it before in terms of of like what does health mean to it is
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passing it on to the next generation of kids my own kids first and foremost but then like to to kids to understand that
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going to the gym and just like in and out little fads here and there health kicks
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here and there isn't at me yeah you're talking about me it's not a lifestyle yeah
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yeah like and we've got friends that we both know who are like that as well and you've been like that before it's
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just it's not yeah it's not the way it's not healthy for starters but up here it just leaves you you're always chasing something whereas when you get
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consistency with your lifestyle and health and your healthy lifestyle there's like almost like a an excel like
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oh actually i get it now and it becomes it's not it's not a drain on your life it becomes something that adds value to
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your life in the end and i think that's something to try and transfer that over to this next generation of kids is i think a key way and this
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pandemic isn't something i think can accelerate that and it will accelerate that because like i said i'm on the board at the gym
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group now and trying to get people to understand and get back into coming into gyms is a
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massive push it's a massive it's a key part and how do you do that because it's not only the importance of a spreadsheet
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it's actually you're doing something that's going to help people now and prevent illnesses from being healthy
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a lot of the time and help their mental health which people yeah yeah that's what i'm saying people think it's just physical yeah it's not like i'll go in a gym in
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that hour is unbelievable three four times a week because you're on your own or with a a partner or a pt whatever it
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is and some of your best ideas or best flushing of things is there all my ideas right because
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you're having that time alone and you're getting to sit and not think about anything else but your reps or whatever it is and then actually bang something hits you
01:20:59
[ __ ] that's kind of for later last one i'll go back to that it's good it's unbelievable it unlocks so much it
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does yeah it's my i said i'm sorry every day at 9pm every single day without fail
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um i go to the gym and regardless of how busy i am here which is always too busy every day the team say they know that at
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certain time i get up and i go to the gym every single day without fail and it's and it's you see it as okay what i'm trying to get muscles it's like
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no that's where i think of ideas so health and i'm really i'm really happy that you said that because
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um i've had that revelation in the last year and i think making so cool thank you making health cool again would
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um help more parts of society than we realize especially guys that are looking for a sense of purpose in their life you know
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yeah definitely i think that and it's again this that's the pandemic as well maybe created a lot more health
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conscious people and it's just the ways in which they're going to work out now is is going to be
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key and even my kids are the same like i was i say to him i don't want to have to come home and tell you to work out
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you should want to work out just do it and then sometimes i might be driving somewhere and all of a sudden one of the boys or
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my little girl they're running somewhere that's like for me that's a success like
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something that's that's that's what i want to see do you mean because i'm not forcing them to do it if they're doing it off their own back
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now this could be like their lifestyle for the rest of their life that they're healthy living healthy understand what it means so
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and my two boys want to be footballers as well so it's important for them to be physically active as a dad that was a
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football legend what do you do to help a son that wants to be a football player get there
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pray i'll pray every night and just say please man let my kids be players like every other parent um i'd give everything for them to play football and be like top players
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seriously man but if they don't this is what i always say to them but there ain't pressure if you don't make it i don't care it's
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life i would love it to be if you don't make it it's fine you do something else one unfortunately is a centre-back like
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me okay at the moment why unfortunately because then he'll be judged against me more if he played a different position like my other goalkeeper my other one's
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a goalkeeper okay so no one's gonna say oh he's not not as good as rio because he's a goalkeeper you know what i mean so
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um but yeah but they're both they're both playing now they're both clubs so they're happy that when the
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biggest thing they're enjoying it which is great so that's a basic answer but it's so true i mean they're doing something that
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they enjoy that they want to get up out of bed every day for and that's all you want and it goes back to the same thing when you're there
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you better be working don't want this like if the manager comes to me and they're doing the appraisal of your performances the last
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two months i do every quarter they come back and tell me that you don't work hard enough you ain't going because you're just
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embarrassing for yourself to hear that but do you is there anything that you can do can you like call someone to be like give my kid a chance and
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because that's how always i thought it was like every every footballers kids would have been players then that's true i mean it's like it's like saying that
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your child is going to be able to build a 200 million pound company because you have yes i mean it's just not it doesn't
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happen because there's so many variables that can affect that i guess all you can do is just try and give them some lessons yeah it's
01:24:09
definitely some advice and it's like but it's like when you become a parent it'll be the same your kids don't want
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to hear it from you yeah yeah yeah they don't want to hear all of this from you yeah
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they'd rather hear it from the sunday league coach you've got no qualifications and listen to him and i'm sitting there looking at my son
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like do you realize what i have done what i did why you're here uh and you're not listening to me you're not taking my advice that you used to kill me right but i don't really know but and then i realized it's more about
01:24:38
just giving them the tools from a mental perspective to how to think and live like a
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professional do they know who you are they do it's weird my son said this to me the other day he said dad until i got fifa i
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didn't really know how good you was you know i said what do you mean he says like you're legend on fifa the game
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so now i know obviously i see your stats they're sick that they're sick how old is he he's he's 14. he took him he probably
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said only like about until two years ago when he started playing fifa that he realized that you like yeah
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before that it was looking me like i was just any man like any guy like and i say to them like yeah
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and one of my sons used to go yeah but dad you you really know that though seriously let's go what's this guy saying like what are you talking about i meet you brother he was like but that's how they
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were because they were just oblivious to it and a lot of players i spoke to and i asked them did you know that you were like the top player
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not really they don't really yeah you just want to sit them down and show them some tapes yeah but then but you don't sit there
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and do that it's like almost like they've got to go and find it and that's what they've they've done now since obviously they go on youtube and
01:25:43
look at stuff as we go down you actually they're not bad are people saying like you are the virgil van dyke so who's
01:25:49
better and like virgil van dyke is here right who is the best defender in the world in your view right now yeah yeah you think it's ramos yeah ramos says
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these ages obviously it works against him but ramos in terms of influence yeah yeah
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um in the last seven or eight years has been the standout because he's that he's just
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he's been a monster scores goals scored over 100 goals you know sent it back really career yeah crazy but van dyke the last
01:26:27
two years has been the best yeah liverpool aren't having a good time at the moment i'm not guided i'm not good
01:26:34
the best that we've got some liverpool fans in here and i tell you what i've i've made the most of this oh it's
01:26:40
beautiful every day i'm like watching the games i didn't care before i'm like watching sat there watching the game like i'm watching united yeah just like
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that oh and then i'll text them all you've just conceded what's the excuse today on no fans all that nonsense
01:26:52
no players got an injury yeah heard it all um you know you lastly you know you said
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you said that you're happy now happiest you've um you've felt in a long time yeah
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yeah definitely like i'm just i'm facing that she said i did it so my face didn't say no you're faced
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with no i'm i'm the happiest i've i've been man it's just because i don't know i've got three healthy
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children four healthy children now got a newborn baby family friends um yeah man it's just
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and and business is going well as well and i can see st i can see stuff happening and
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evolving like you can almost you can feel stuff happening you know i mean you must have felt that with some of the stuff that you do you feel
01:27:41
you you you get onto something and you feel momentum a little bit the momentum starts coming you can see it building so
01:27:47
i'm in a good place man i'm i'm really happy what do you want what do you mean what i want i purposely
01:27:53
ambiguous like what do you what do you want when you think about what you want now what is it i just i just want to
01:27:59
be part of something that people go well that was that's the [ __ ] like that's how
01:28:06
they've done that fair play well well played that's what i want why because that's how i've always been you play football first and foremost i wanted because i wanted to be a success before
01:28:19
that obviously but that recognition i think we all have a little bit in us that you want that
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recognition whether it's from your friends your host network of people family or outside that but
01:28:32
why why is a football player did you buy the paper or do you go online what number's beside your name if you've got a four out of ten that papers are getting thrown away you get a nine attack ten eight ten well
01:28:44
you're looking for that recognition and i think we've all got a little bit in that now why'd you say well done to your team
01:28:49
members of your team because you know that person will feed off that recognition so i'm not ashamed to say that i i'm definitely
01:28:56
like that as well well thank you so much for for coming today means a lot and um you're an
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incredibly inspiring guy like and i have no doubt that you're gonna you're gonna find that thing and it's
01:29:06
gonna become um just as successful as everything else you've done in your life because you've got all the you've got the
01:29:11
philosophical attributes that are conducive with success like you're you're not someone that got lucky you've clearly got a
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mindset that is conducive with success and especially when you you talk about how curious you are with things
01:29:22
i like when i say it i mean it like the way you look at me when i talk about something that like if i talk about something that's maybe a little bit
01:29:27
outside of your realm of experience you might as well have pen and paper in the hand because that's the facial expression right yeah
01:29:32
i've got notepads at home it's going in really so um who i reference in the podcast is the seo
01:29:38
pretty little thing and he was always the same and he said to me he was like i'd get 16 year olds in this office
01:29:43
and i'd be like tell me about tik tok and he just sits there and studies them he doesn't know about it he knows about
01:29:48
him but he will know through them and he'll learn and he said you should say to me i'm a sponge he said so mahmoud and
01:29:53
umar would invite me to the office sometimes four days a week and i'll just sit in the office and they'll just ask me questions and then
01:30:00
you'd see them sort of changing their strategy a little bit on social media et cetera and you know their record speaks for itself
01:30:05
but yeah you've been a huge inspiration for me for many many years as a leader um as a guy you know i didn't know you
01:30:12
before you know a couple of years ago and when we met and the guy you are and the leader you are is um is
01:30:18
tremendously inspiring you're a good guy and you're incredibly inspiring as well so thank you for making the time today
01:30:24
you inspire me now as well so this is uh kind of it works both ways so i appreciate you appreciating
01:30:30
thank you cool man thanks [Music] you