00:00:00
i just got to a point where i thought it's time to empower myself and you know what some of this is your fault because
00:00:07
you've said something you'd met someone yeah you spoke to i can't 51 that it's been my life and i accept it like you say acceptance actually can be a beautiful thing and it
00:00:19
can be a liberating thing to think i'm not holding on to something that i can't change so first of all the conversation was well done i didn't know about this
00:00:31
and then overnight the doll turned that that definitely was like do you know what actually i was scared of taking my kid to nursery that day because i got death threats
00:00:43
quick one can you do me a favor if you're listening to this and hit the subscribe button the follow button wherever you're listening to this
00:00:49
podcast thank you so much michelle humes once upon a time she was a member of the
00:00:54
saturdays one of the most famous uk girl bands that has ever risen from this country
00:01:00
but since then she's become so much more she is a mother she is a fearless entrepreneur and honestly she is one of the most pleasant wonderful
00:01:11
authentic guests i've ever had on this podcast and i can see why after having this
00:01:16
conversation with her she's built this huge engaged community behind her online and i think you're going to see that too
00:01:23
she's inspiring she is wise she is resilient but she's also just unbelievably real and today we talk about something she's
00:01:34
never addressed before the moment where she was nearly cancelled unanswered questions from her childhood and also
00:01:42
the all-consuming side of starting and running a business that people just never talk about the difficult times the rejection the struggle with work-life balance
00:01:54
and in her words how she's just winging it anyway and i kind of think we are all just
00:02:00
winging it so without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo
00:02:05
i hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself [Music]
00:02:17
just me and mama i was reading um about the start of your life and going through multiple interviews and that phrase kept
00:02:23
coming up just me and mum why was it just you and mum it was just me and mum because that's
00:02:30
sort of how my childhood looked my mum and my dad split officially when i was a tiny probably my son's age probably maybe one just short of one
00:02:43
and then that was sort of it really so that sort of i had contact with my dad for a little burst of time but it was never anything
00:02:53
solid and then the contact stopped all together so yeah that i suppose i actually it's funny that you point that out because i didn't realize how much i say that but it just me and
00:03:05
mum is probably something that i have said a lot you're right i am i had a a relative show up one day when i was maybe 12 right and they claimed to be my uncle they just walked into the shop and
00:03:19
they claimed to be my uncle and they presented evidence which was really compelling they were my uncle they
00:03:24
strolled in and um they spoke to my dad and they said i'm your brother and they looked at me and said i'm your uncle and it was a
00:03:30
really bizarre point in my life because although we believed them and they had evidence to prove that they were there
00:03:36
was no relationship there and i i read that you went in search of your dad to just to find out who he was and what was going on at some point in your life can you tell me how that interaction was and
00:03:46
what you what you felt yeah i think my mum did very well uh at not sort of discrediting my dad over the years so she would kind of make a lot of excuse well now i'm an adult and i'm a
00:03:59
parent right i know that she was obviously covering his ass constantly and making a
00:04:05
lot of excuses and dressing it up in a way that i suppose that at the time i could handle as a as a kid but you're
00:04:11
always going to have that level of curiosity in life when i had my own children i weirdly became less curious which is weird right because i had my own kids and i suppose
00:04:26
i've always thought oh yeah he's my dad and oh he's not been around i don't really know him but he's my and i sort of
00:04:33
held hope but then i had my own children and i saw what being a dad was from my husband and i knew what being even not being a dad was being a parent was because i was
00:04:46
then a parent and besotted and in love and lived live my life for my kids so i think the respect was here but it was in the basement when i had my
00:04:58
own you know because i my outlook was then like okay now i really don't understand the way that you
00:05:06
don't want to be a part of your child's life you know for some people that changes they have their own kids and
00:05:11
then i'd like them to know their grandparents or i'd like them and i thought my biggest thing in life is to protect
00:05:17
these little ones i know how flaky you were for me there's no way that i'd have them sat by
00:05:24
the window saying is granddad coming to get me because i can protect i've got control over that
00:05:29
i'm not against it i'd be open but it's not something that i would seek now and there was that day that you got a chance to meet him yeah and what did you find out that day
00:05:41
about him or why he wasn't present or well i didn't really i didn't find out anything my mom had always told me this story that sort of went like
00:05:53
bless her and this is what now i'm a parent i'm like she was so thinking on the spot but it's something that stuck
00:05:58
with me she said some some daddies aren't very good at looking after little girls because they would look after little boy it's easier for them to look after little boys and she
00:06:09
must have literally been doing the washing and i've said why don't i just you know
00:06:15
i like because at that time i i knew that he had a son fast forward to have many years later i
00:06:20
realized that you also had two daughters so that sort of my mum was like but at that point i was old enough to like realize that you know he it just he had a new set up and i
00:06:33
just didn't slot into that i'm super naive to the situation because i don't know what it's like it's important to say that so everything you talk about or
00:06:40
assume of the situation comes from a place of like total naivety um like if i'm if i met my dad and he
00:06:46
wasn't around i would assume i would just like ask him the [ __ ] question like where the [ __ ] have you been like
00:06:51
yeah i know and can i just tell you with everything else in my life i am i mean ask anybody that knows me
00:06:58
the most direct person but there's just this like i can't even articulate it enough like there's this weird it's been my life right and i've got to
00:07:10
this point and i still don't know the answer but i know the person that i want the answers from isn't the person that's going to give me the honest answer so i
00:07:18
just don't waste my own time because time is something that we don't have enough of so i'm at that place so it's
00:07:24
not that i'm like i'm not scared to know the truth i'm not like i'm just not in desperate need for it because i know that that it's not gonna be
00:07:35
a real picture of what happened and i'm too old and i'm too wise to believe [ __ ] so i think
00:07:41
that's where i am with it there's something really powerful and beautiful about acceptance in situations
00:07:47
like yeah it seems that most of our unhappiness or frustration comes from the lack of acceptance not getting to the point
00:07:53
where we need the answer and we need someone to blame well you need to be like i'm not gonna be me having a conversation with my father now at 32
00:08:03
years of age with three kids of my own with a husband with my own career my own life
00:08:09
me having a conversation and him saying to me oh it didn't work out with your mum and i
00:08:15
and this i don't know what he would say this is me thinking of an answer me having that conversation i'm actually
00:08:21
not going to get anything out of it that's genuinely how i feel there's not anything he would be able to say to me
00:08:27
that could change the fact that he didn't come to watch my nativity play or he didn't do put in that ground
00:08:34
so really i don't need a dad at my age now because i have my own family set up and i'm secure so i'm not seeking that because it's
00:08:46
something i've never had do you forgive him for his absence yeah i think i do i don't i'm like that
00:08:53
as a person i don't hold on and i think if there was something in life that i would hold on to it'd be something like this right
00:08:59
because i would have the right to but i don't and i think had you have asked me at 18 i'd i would have i would have been like i will never forget that man for not
00:09:09
being around for me but i just know what it is i know what i'm gonna get if i had contact with him
00:09:16
and i accept it like you say acceptance actually can be a beautiful thing and it
00:09:21
can be a liberating thing to think i'm not holding on to something that i can't change it's done it's in the past it is what it is there's a quote that i read one day on
00:09:32
and it really stuck with me and it kind of speaks to what you're saying there which is um um
00:09:37
forgiveness but i guess acceptance as well is letting a prisoner go and realizing that you were the prisoner the
00:09:42
whole time so you were holding on to a weight which wasn't going to ever serve you but you
00:09:47
you thought it was in service of revenge or victory i'll win if i hold on to this
00:09:52
grudge or this bitterness but in fact it's like poison in your own chalice honestly i couldn't
00:09:59
like i have friends that they're they are back to a t and i think you have literally
00:10:07
you're you are stopping your future and the rest of your life because you're holding on to something that
00:10:13
first of all no one even knows what it is when it's been that long like like what is this all about and you're but
00:10:19
you're the person that remains unhappy because you're you're going through life with a side of
00:10:25
your brain that's focused on the fact that well no because they've done me wrong yeah they did you're doing
00:10:32
yourself wrong yeah amen it's like yeah it's exhausting and that's just not me as a person like
00:10:39
on to the next and that's just me that's that's always been my mentality so you on that day when you you discovered his
00:10:46
his other life his his life as it is you also discovered um two is it half sisters is that what it's
00:10:52
called i have no idea i don't even know what an uncle is these days but yeah yeah so yeah i suppose technically they're half yeah we share the same
00:10:58
father but not the same mother yeah um two sisters and a brother okay yeah so i you're right i knew i had the brother i didn't know that he had daughters but obviously
00:11:11
they were young so they came with him and we we just weren't going to see eye to eye he just
00:11:18
wasn't consistent and that was just the you know a continuous pattern so then it sort of the contact dwindled again to near or nothing
00:11:31
well nothing and then fast forward to about 11 12 years later i was at a christmas due at my then
00:11:43
agents and they had just taken on one of the guys from love island kemp who is a lovely lovely guy
00:11:54
and i obviously you know prosecco's hit mom's got a night off have her having a lovely evening he randomly come up to me i've never met him before prior to this never met him
00:12:05
i was like nice to meet you and he was asking me about the management and was like do you enjoy and i'm like yeah they're going to be great for you good
00:12:11
luck with everything and then i could feel that he wanted to approach me and say something and the
00:12:16
night's gone on and you know maybe a couple of cocktails later he comes up to me and he's like
00:12:21
look okay so this is really weird but i went to school with your sister i was like right okay really she never said thinking the sister that i grew up with and he's like no
00:12:34
so on your dad's side and he said i always said to her because she was a really good friend if ever i bump into your sister i'm going to give her your number
00:12:45
and i lit can i just tell you i was twisted i sobered up within a second i was like
00:12:52
sorry what and he said look can i just message her now and it all just happened so quickly
00:12:59
he whatsapped her and was like i'm with your sister a christmas party can i give give her your number she was like please
00:13:05
the next thing i had her number saved in my phone the next day i sent her a message we had arranged to meet later on that
00:13:17
week with all of them so so the two sisters the brother so i was like okay this is great like and i told my mum and and then it got to
00:13:30
thursday night and i promised you i had the worst time like i was so nervous i said marv i don't know if i can do
00:13:36
this i don't know if i can go like this is so i made him come with me really so he came because i was like the three of them are together they've grown up with each other they know each other like i feel really i don't know why i
00:13:49
just felt really vulnerable about the whole thing so yeah we went for dinner we it was
00:13:54
like marv said it was really weird for him to witness because he was like i just felt like it was the norm
00:14:05
and it was weird like i was like my brother going you look like my eldest daughter like you know just jeans are really mad and like she's super tall so
00:14:13
i'm like she must get her height from you it was just a really weird thing and marvin was just like in the kind of way homie was like i was just staring at them all because you are all so similar and
00:14:24
it's that weird like nature and nurture thing isn't it like we are just so similar mannerisms everything
00:14:31
and then from that day we like talk every single day i can't remember a time when i wasn't in my life isn't that a gift it really is and that's what i mean when
00:14:43
i speak of not holding on to resentment not not holding on to because you know me thinking oh well that's lovely for them they live the life with my with my dad and they seem to get the
00:14:55
attention and not holding on to things that you actually don't know too much about like not holding on to those feelings of
00:15:01
anger towards the fact that he wasn't around for me because if i'd held on to that i
00:15:06
wouldn't have gone i met them for dinner and struck up that relationship and i wouldn't have real key players that are
00:15:13
in my corner now in my life and people that i adore but that comes of age as i said the younger me i've read
00:15:20
something on instagram that said i'm so proud of how the older me and situations that the younger me just wouldn't have
00:15:26
entertained and that is the key of just not holding on to stuff that you think you have to because actually there is always a light at the end of that tunnel and
00:15:37
my light is them and the siblings that i didn't have around me that are now everything to me you know
00:15:44
i've always contended with that with um especially growing up with this idea that i i assumed my family should be and
00:15:51
look perfect yeah and we go through so much um like self-harm trying to make our family as we see it in like
00:15:58
the movies like home like i just need them to be like this and act like this and so much
00:16:04
despair and misery when they fail to meet that expectation and i i think there's not enough people talking about
00:16:10
the fact that like by the way your family don't get like a free pass into your life you don't have
00:16:16
to fight forever to make the setup perfect in fact you end up harming yourself more than you gain from trying to achieve that and i definitely noticed that in my life so with me at some point
00:16:26
when i got a little bit older and maybe a bit more secure i realized that like just like everything else in my life
00:16:32
that too has to serve me you don't get a free pass like if you're going to be toxic and
00:16:37
you're going to be an [ __ ] to me goodbye [ __ ] like i don't care if we have the same you know i mean and
00:16:43
yeah that's not a narrative people talk about enough so i was really yeah and i think and i think for me i
00:16:49
definitely grew up i grew up with the sort of i don't want to say embarrassment because i'm not sure if that is the right word i suppose as a kid maybe it was but my family didn't look like everybody
00:17:01
else's so i knew i was very aware like i knew my grandparents god dress themselves
00:17:06
um from my dad's side but i grew up in a white family felt like i'd constantly have to explain
00:17:12
that my sister didn't look like my sister but we were sisters and you know she'd be the last
00:17:18
person in the room that you'd say that was my sister because we don't look anything alike and you know i was aware that i then had
00:17:25
a side of my family my black side that i wasn't around and but i would but that was still a big part of my life that and i was very aware of how that looked and i knew that i had siblings
00:17:37
that looked like me but my family was just a bit of a big messy picture but like with so much love like i had the
00:17:44
best upbringing my mum did everything by me to raise me in the right way and she did a phenomenal job but i was
00:17:51
really embarrassed of how that looked like i didn't see a christmas commercial that had like
00:17:57
my family on on the ad but really as i'm old as i'm older now and as i said it does come with age i'm like it's amazing like i have so many
00:18:09
different elements of my life but yeah i always want to speak about it and be open because your family doesn't have to look like i met marvin and his mum and dad have been married like 40 odd years
00:18:20
and you know they they share the same dna and it's all you know it's all very in
00:18:26
my mind how i would wanted my family to look but everybody's family comes if they're different problems their their
00:18:32
road hasn't been plain sailing and i just think so it's something that i've always spoken about because
00:18:38
it is what you make it at the end of the day and i think like you said if it serves you in the
00:18:44
right way then brilliant but also if your family is perfect on the outside and it's not serving you
00:18:52
then you don't have to hold on to things that you think you have to because you've got that
00:18:57
ideal picture in your mind and even a dysfunctional family can teach you a lot of important lessons
00:19:04
about life and so really interesting course it tends to be the case with my guests that come here it's in fact often
00:19:09
the the thing that made them different the thing that made their family slightly dysfunctional which leads to them having
00:19:16
wild success obviously sometimes or becoming an anomaly later in life yeah it seems to tends to be the case that a little bit of a different start to life causes a little bit of a different end
00:19:27
to life yeah you know what i mean um and that's again needs to be said there's always a
00:19:34
downside as well to that so we have people here that are incredibly relentless in their career because of
00:19:39
some insecurity from their childhood so just understanding that and being self-aware about that is um important
00:19:44
speaking of tremendous successes the saturdays when you look back on that phase of your
00:19:49
life how would you describe it now in hindsight and now you're 32. oh my gosh you know you look 22. i look back now
00:19:56
and i think the saturdays existed at the perfect time in my life like i was a young girl in
00:20:03
well i think when i joined the group i was like obviously it took a while for us to
00:20:09
launch so i think i was 18 when we formed and what young girl doesn't want to be
00:20:20
in a girl band well i mean i'm sure there are girls that don't but for me it was the most incredible experience
00:20:26
when i look back now i think we were actually really fortunate when i see other girl bands and their fallouts
00:20:33
and the way that looked i think goodness me yes we bickered but we bickered like
00:20:38
sisters we never had a row that was like we just never had it we didn't we kind of was all there for the same reason we loved what we did and we had a respect for that
00:20:49
so i feel blessed because when i look at the history of girl bands it doesn't always play out that way so
00:20:56
we had the best time if there was something up we'd sort it out and that was it done and it was only only really
00:21:02
ever a work thing so it'd be like i don't like that i don't think that's the right vibe for the video
00:21:08
or i don't think and that's the sort of disagreement that's sort of where it stopped and then we always had this there was
00:21:14
five of us so we had the majority rules rule and it was and on that on the on the
00:21:20
time where you were in the two and not the three it was so annoying yeah so you'd be like
00:21:25
and it was one of those things because you know you couldn't do anything about it because that's we lived our life by that so it is what it is and even if you
00:21:31
think your point is so valid you're in the two so go back down [Music] um but yeah so i had a ball i was young for a proportion of it i was single
00:21:45
you know i didn't have chill i just we we traveled the world we performed i had a bloody good time doing it so
00:21:51
when i look back i only actually look back fondly so interesting because liam payne sat here from one direction before he arrived i
00:22:02
would have said the same what young guy wouldn't have wanted to be in one direction but then when he described how
00:22:08
turbulent that experience was and being a young dude that comes out on stage there's 150 000 people screaming at him
00:22:14
he then has to go back to his hotel room straight after the gig and he's basically locked in the hotel room because there's tens of thousands of
00:22:20
fans screaming downstairs and doing that over and over and over again for years and years and years really took a toll
00:22:25
on him yeah obviously like also not being able to walk down the street without people coming up to him and
00:22:30
um and then the band ending and there's almost that sense of like well what the hell do i do now yeah
00:22:36
was there not it almost made me think that there's a bit of a curse of being in the public eye especially in that
00:22:42
context of a band and yeah and then what happens after and yeah did they experience i don't know i just after the
00:22:50
conversation with them i thought yeah so glad i wasn't in one direction yeah i think look i think one direction's level
00:22:56
and it was a global phenomenon right and i've noticed being married to mark there's a very different level of hysteria when you're in a boy band to a girl band like it's
00:23:08
just it's just different it comes with the nature of this job the hysteria is wild for boys
00:23:14
which i do think would come with a different level of pressure i mean there's pros and cons to both you know when you're in a girl band it's very visual and people are obsessed with how
00:23:26
you look and if you're the one that may have enjoyed your christmas too much and put on a bit of weight oh people are
00:23:31
gonna tell you or if you're the one that kind of you know there's there's with girls it's all very visual and i think
00:23:37
that's what i think we can all say that we would have found the toughest at one point
00:23:43
for us our we didn't burst onto the scene right so like we weren't like jealous or like
00:23:50
one direction who went on x factor in its prime and gained this overnight momentum and girls overnight want to wait outside their
00:24:01
house because there's one minute you're a guy that's just turned up for an audition and the next minute
00:24:07
you've got this pressure that you don't know how to handle because no one's taught you that so for us we did the
00:24:13
like university gigs we did the we we didn't have that burst we really did it was a real sort of grind to get our single
00:24:26
played on radio and we you know so for us it was kind of every little bit of success meant so
00:24:32
much because we would all at the time we'd be like oh we should've just got an expert and we'd say things like that because we think it
00:24:40
was so hard for us and we'd see these groups that appeared overnight and we'd be like oh my goodness we've been here for years trying
00:24:47
um you know our dressing rooms would be toilets because that's sort of that's the level it was it wasn't it wasn't all
00:24:53
glitz and glamour but it worked that way in the end and we were all on that same page and it was
00:24:59
kind of like you're only as strong as your weakest member right so we were all there we were all present we were always
00:25:05
on time and we really wanted it we enjoyed it because as these things happened or we got booked for
00:25:12
an amazing performance which was really hard to get or we you know an appearance or a jonathan ross chat show we were
00:25:18
like we've only bloody got jonathan ross because we couldn't get on there the single before because nobody was interested however yes there were
00:25:25
massive downsides it's like a whole merry-go-round and that's a downside you're on a hamster wheel i think the
00:25:31
downsize is not having control over your own life and i'm a control freak i don't know if
00:25:37
you'll gauge that already um i like to know what i'm doing i'm like that's me as a person so there's time you know there would be times and when you'd feel responsible and because that
00:25:49
was always our sort of mantra like we're in this together like one of us drops off we let the other one down
00:25:55
if you weren't up to it the pressure that you'd put on yourself to be up to it for everybody else like i
00:26:01
had a layer and i came back to work three and a half weeks later and performed on national television like
00:26:06
with spanx up to my neck to try and hold in the belly and like this is gross for you but boobs leaking
00:26:13
because i'm like trying to navigate am i breastfeeding on my not all because i didn't want to let the girls down and
00:26:19
and the fact that the label were like you've got another single to release and i think it just got to a point
00:26:25
where we became a bit more adult and we all just were like this has been quite a lot
00:26:32
you know and we're ready to sort of wind down we never actually officially broke up there's probably someone in the record
00:26:38
label somewhere that probably would still say that we owe them a single we didn't officially break up because
00:26:45
there wasn't a need to because we love each other and it's look we don't talk every day because we spent so long of
00:26:50
our life together but i see one of them tomorrow and it's like we haven't not seen each other i think
00:26:56
we just got to a point where we were like we've you know we've grafted we've done
00:27:02
this now we're ready to sort of just like there's things that when you're in a group that you don't even think about right because you're
00:27:08
in control of yourself in the same way i am now but thinking about things like we would all have to agree on the same day
00:27:14
off well that's near on impossible because you want to go to see your friend in i don't know whatever he's doing that day and you and i want to do this and i've actually got this
00:27:25
so it was those little things that became hard for me like i want to be off because mars got down for work so can we have friday well no actually because i want and it naturally
00:27:37
it's going to just become a little bit like okay let's pause on this for now and we can all
00:27:42
go in our own lanes and that's sort of how it ended and how it still is as those priorities shift i guess and you start to you know then i had a baby yeah exactly i'm like you know and
00:27:55
that's that became everything and owner had already had a little one too before i had a layer but it just yeah there's a there's a switch isn't there
00:28:06
and you start to go okay we've done this now for us so when's the reunion quite some time you know what i just can't imagine doing
00:28:12
it i'll be totally honest with you and i'm always honest i just can't and i've been there to see marvin on
00:28:18
side of stage doing the whole groupie wife thing but i thought i just just feels like a lovely chapter that ended for me and it was so lovely and i
00:28:30
will always speak of it fondly but it just feels like a period in my life that's done when you think about doing it when you think about getting that email and they say we're going to do a
00:28:41
tour reunion what what are the emotions that come to mind as in the sense yeah it just would feel like i just i've look i've got three kids and
00:28:55
there's so many things that i turned down because it wouldn't work for my life and that falls into that
00:29:02
category like my life's changed i have a business there's no way i could be on tour
00:29:08
imagine the girls in the office would be like oh she's at the o2 tonight like we've got stuff to do you know i think
00:29:14
it's just it just wouldn't well i don't think i'd remember the dance routines the thought of doing it's all of the like the actual
00:29:20
i love it and i feel like a bit of a cool mum that i had that time but it's not me now it's just not and i
00:29:27
think it's okay do your kids realize that you're in a really well-known girl band elia does but she doesn't care it's really sad like i was i was showing her these
00:29:39
videos she cares to watch the videos and that's quite nice but i was telling her i was like you
00:29:44
know because she loves little mix oh my god she is like the biggest little mix fan you should tell her they copied me
00:29:49
and i was like literally i was saying to her because when the little mixed girls were on x factor we were on tour and
00:29:56
they come to one of our tour rehearsals and like asked for our advice so i was i was
00:30:01
saying this to a lady and i was like what do you know actually when i was telling this whole story they
00:30:07
they come to and i tried to find it and there was a clip on youtube of them coming to meet us and watching our rehearsal it was like it's ancient this
00:30:13
clip she was like but why would they ask you for advice go to your room be crafty
00:30:25
so in her mind because she she understands i did it but she i don't think she realizes but it's funny because because she loves little mix i'm
00:30:32
like god she would probably love it if i did that again you know like she would probably love that
00:30:37
but yeah i'm just not there in my life anymore and that isn't there's no that's not bad mind as me and my friends would say it's just not
00:30:49
yeah not for me now i've had so many people tag me on instagram even on telegram and in my
00:30:56
twitter dms in a picture of them starting their heel journey and it's one of the most
00:31:01
amazing things in my life that i get to do a podcast which of course needs money to to fuel and i have a sponsor like you
00:31:07
who i genuinely believe is going to help every single person who starts their heel journey change
00:31:13
their life because this podcast the central intention of this podcast is to help people live better lives and we get
00:31:19
to sit here and i get to promote to you a product which has not only helped me change my life but it's going to help
00:31:24
millions of people and is helping millions of people live a nutritionally complete life it's so it's such an
00:31:30
incredible product and for me the reason why it's incredible is because it gives me my protein it gives me my vitamins minerals it's plant-based it's low in
00:31:37
sugar gluten-free it does all of that in a small drink that tastes good there are other products there's foods there's the
00:31:43
hot and savory collection many other things but for me this ready to drink is the absolute saviour of my diet throughout the week
00:31:50
where i'm moving at such pace look i don't want to labor the point but if you haven't tried you'll give it a
00:31:55
try and if you do tag me instagram wherever you try it give me a tag anyway back to the podcast you talked about starting a business then you've got a business you run now my little coco
00:32:08
tell me about that why why did you want to start that business and obviously you know being a mother of three wonderful
00:32:13
children starting a business especially starting a business at the start of the pandemic is a uh really great time right yeah
00:32:20
phenomenal timing to take on tremendous responsibility yeah so obviously i'd started the business
00:32:26
before it didn't launch until a few weeks before the pandemic hit um but there was an emotion right we couldn't stop then so i was pregnant
00:32:38
with a layer and going through that real phase of like thinking i'm an earth mum and being really precious about what i use or my kid you know they are the most
00:32:48
precious thing ever in your life like that just and i was really fussy about what i used and i would shop really premium so i'd be like going into like liberty beauty
00:33:02
hall and finding out you know and i'd be really into it there wasn't anything that existed on the high street that i felt happy with you know a lot of them have like outrageous chemicals in and
00:33:12
things that you are like oh that's quite harsh for baby skin so for me it was bridging that gap
00:33:18
of products that you could use for the whole family that were gentle that had everything
00:33:24
that i wanted as you know my values and so the journey began and i didn't want this to be a flash in the pan thing i didn't want this to be baby by rochelle humes this
00:33:37
wasn't about me right this was about me building a brand from the ground up rolling with the punches which we certainly have done and yeah bigger picture you know
00:33:49
almost creating a space i knew what i wanted to do but almost creating a space for myself that like
00:33:57
i'm always going to be needed right because it's mine and no one can make the decisions that i can make because this is my baby so why was that
00:34:04
important well i think i suppose there's a little bit of the nature in what i do
00:34:09
that yes i host television but any day someone more relevant or more current could come along because that's the way the time is there could be somebody new that now
00:34:20
fills the gap that i you know had created or left open so i think for me it's always being that one step ahead and being in control being in control you're getting
00:34:33
this thing yeah um marvin told me [Laughter] um it hasn't been easy though goodness to me
00:34:43
so i knew exactly what i wanted so developed pro we started off with a range of seven products um that would develop which takes a long time and please believe it's like
00:34:55
particularly when it's children involved so the testing for any product the process is quite
00:35:00
stringent and it's it's a full-on thing but add newborn into it we're dealing with a whole new level of
00:35:07
testing which rightly so um so it took a while it took three years in you know for before the pandemic hit and it was in store it was three years work prior to
00:35:17
that and i'm never happy with something on the first round it's notorious it's not happened yet it won't happen there'll
00:35:24
always be something that i want to change so that obviously took quite a long time and then it was me
00:35:31
i suppose deciding from a sensible business perspective if i want to take the risk and go on my own
00:35:38
e-commerce first of all or do i want to partner with a retailer most people eventually want to partner
00:35:43
with a retailer right it's getting in there and it's you know and that's where i was lucky you know
00:35:49
the business has been me and it's been my graft aside from rochelle humes but that's where i do feel lucky that i
00:35:56
could use my profile to have a meeting with certain retailers and be in that room and you know use that to my advantage which i did do
00:36:08
however it can go against me too so it's not always yeah okay you've got that because you
00:36:15
have had the profile that has helped with that it actually can can go against you because you know what do you know you're a celebrity coming
00:36:21
into this world and what is this going to be another celebrity range people say that to you or was that kind of implied
00:36:29
yeah i mean they said it without saying it as bluntly as i did yeah it was it was yeah definitely implied
00:36:35
so then so i was going for a whole thing and there was i'd had this moment where
00:36:41
one of my products um was a cult well it is a curl custard and that was key to the range like that's happening and
00:36:54
there were quite a few retailers that didn't feel the need they liked the range i think they like the range and they like the association with me and what that might bring to
00:37:06
their store but the values and everything else that comes with the brand that i've created they wasn't so interested in so the fact that i'm trying to make it
00:37:18
diverse the fact that you know that i want people to walk on their high street and be able to get a hair product for afro hair
00:37:28
that that's a must the fact that you know the level of moisturizing is different
00:37:34
when you're of a black background you know and that that appreciating those things and i think
00:37:41
i mean what's really interesting is i think if i'd have pitched this idea now post blm movement i think they would have bit my hand off yeah yeah which is wild right
00:37:53
but when i did pitch it it was like now there's not really i don't think there's a need and i'm like there's no need for
00:37:59
a product for people with curly or afro hair sorry what so i there was a bit of a struggle and then i
00:38:09
had this meeting with boots i actually felt like i was on dragon's den really yeah felt like i was
00:38:15
on the telly um i actually was i was really nervous i felt like i was really just
00:38:21
pitching something that i knew that was great and that i believed in but it was really i suppose when it's your passion
00:38:27
it fills you with that level of nerves that are different right instantly but it was boots they got it they were like okay love it we want to take it all
00:38:39
and we love the curl custard and that's that okay these are my people these are my people and it's i mean it's
00:38:47
ironic it's it's just i'm i'm so pleased that i went with my gut and i was persistent with that because i felt like
00:38:52
it was gonna go somewhere so i needed to stand firm on that what else has surprised you about running your own
00:38:58
business that you uh if someone had told you before you started you might not bothered
00:39:05
oh my gosh it's all-consuming and i think if you're gonna start a business you have to know
00:39:12
that don't think you're going to turn your phone off at five because that's not a thing it's not a thing
00:39:18
and if you turn your phone off at five don't expect a successful business like don't expect to make money for the
00:39:24
first period of time expect to if you break even that's good and you have to be all in you can't like i i speak to like some of
00:39:35
my sister's friends and they want to we want to start business but you know do you
00:39:41
do you actually and i think it's it's and that's not being patronizing that's like you're not going to make an
00:39:47
instagram page for it it's going to be a success overnight and you're going to post a few pretty pictures it takes
00:39:52
everything and i think once you're happy with that then i think you'll be okay once you know that it's really interesting um because people don't talk about that
00:40:05
enough there's a definitely a culture of be your own boss start a business as if it will be you know the minute you make
00:40:12
that decision it's a decision of like freedom and your life is just totally yours and in control but it
00:40:17
tends to be the case in my experience anyway that starting a business becomes almost the antithesis the opposite of control yeah you you are controlled by
00:40:25
your emails and your whatsapps and crisis and employees and and i think it's important part of the
00:40:30
reason i started this podcast was to try and shed a light on that that side of things that instagram won't like
00:40:36
definitely tell you about and i think that's because that's the that is the culture that we live in now
00:40:42
that that you literally can launch a page and you can look something overnight it doesn't mean that it's gonna
00:40:48
work and i think yeah i think i just i'm always real with that sort of stuff because you have to work hard like you it
00:41:00
people underestimate graft and i think particularly that's something that's really important to me for my children
00:41:08
like are they gonna have the same level of hustle that i have and that same work
00:41:13
ethic and i still don't know the answer to that to be honest with you do i do that through schooling do i i really
00:41:19
make a fuss about their tests but i also want to let them know at the same time i didn't leave school with x y and zed i
00:41:25
did it myself so i think that's an it's something that i just look show up be present be committed work your ass off at the thing that you
00:41:38
know that it is that you're good at and i think i'm not into like i'm not going to be that mum that lets my kid go
00:41:44
and expect if she can't sing and be clapping in the wings i adore my children and i will love them no matter what and
00:41:49
i would like to hear them sing but i'm going to be real and i think that's what we need more of and i think that's what
00:41:56
because i'm everyone's hype girl to the end i will hype you now i've met you and i like you i will hype you so hard
00:42:04
but i will always be real with you and i think that is what it doesn't have to come up
00:42:09
you know from a place of judgment or a place of disrespect it's like look maybe go away and think about that a bit
00:42:16
more and go and i think that's what i want my kids to have from me they'll have love and abundance
00:42:23
but if if you're not good at a certain thing i'm not gonna go do it and lead them into a room blind i'm gonna say
00:42:29
look this is what you're amazing actually look at this and i think we can love our kids and support them
00:42:35
without you know because i think that's doing them wrong i think we can be real at the same time a lot of our guests in fact have sat here in in the last couple of weeks and
00:42:47
said the same thing about the importance of actually don't focus on the [ __ ] you're really bad at if you want to go far in life don't try and turn your d in
00:42:54
physics to a c in physics just focus on jimmy carter just focus on the a like double down on the on the competency so
00:43:00
and it's that it's taking that like focus put your energy in in what you know because you know what you're good at you know what happens you get that you get the buzz from it you know what sits
00:43:11
right with you you know where you're aligned to go with that and work on that because
00:43:19
that's sort of how i live my life everything that i know that i'm not people always said oh you should go into
00:43:24
acting i'm like i can act up to marvel and i need a couple of things but i'm not an actor i'm not i know i'm not so i'll
00:43:31
just why are we gonna do that the same way when i left the group everyone was like you're gonna release a solo album i work
00:43:38
well in a band i know my strengths i'm not you know i'm not beyonce i mean i'd love to be and i think i am after tequila but that's a different story but i know what i'm good at i'm a good
00:43:49
talker so you know media and television that's my route that's something that i'm
00:43:55
passionate about so and everyone for ages was like i bet she's in the studio and i bet she doesn't want to tell us and i bet she's doing a solo album i'm
00:44:01
like i'm bloody well not because guess what i've i've taken what i need from this experience
00:44:07
and i got away with it in a band and yes i you know i can sing i'm not the best singer in the world i'm
00:44:13
really not and guess what the charts are full of amazing singers so let me do something that i know
00:44:19
that i can deliver and i work my ass off at that what you're describing there to me sounds it's really interesting because
00:44:25
you're describing like pursuing the thing where you have a degree of competency you're good at it but also where you have like that internal
00:44:31
intrinsic passion yeah and like both are so important i actually spoke to a girl the other day on a zoom mentoring call i
00:44:37
was doing and she'd gotten to a stage in her life where she just just and this is where the passion bit's really important
00:44:43
she kind of just followed the the opportunity so she was good at let's say maths so she found herself at 35 as
00:44:49
being this accountant but she actually never cared about maths she didn't care about being an accountant she got dragged by the the opportunity it's like you saying
00:45:00
okay i'll do the single just because i can or i'll do my solo career just because i can i'm not taking that moment to pause and go actually what is it that
00:45:07
i care about and regardless of the fact that i can do it do i want to do it yeah
00:45:13
and of money and is this carrot that sometimes can lead us to make short-term decisions which
00:45:18
become long-term regret right and i've definitely done that yeah i've definitely done that i've definitely thought
00:45:25
i've done i've done it with brand work before definitely i've taken on a brand project
00:45:32
and known it's not really me but the money was so bloody good welcome to my world
00:45:39
i will take all the deals but i've got to the do you know what i think i've got to that point now well
00:45:46
yes and it does again come with age it comes with i suppose more financial stability than i had
00:45:53
before like i left the group and people were and i wasn't sure what was going to happen right because i'd left this group
00:45:58
where my life was planned to a tea for me and then i was going it alone and i thought well that's good money i should take it i don't know what and hi i'm michelle humes and this is
00:46:08
sausages i don't know whatever and i've definitely done that and i'm not ashamed to say it and yes with i suppose
00:46:15
more now financial stability it's it's easier to be choosy right so this is now easier for me to say because at the time it was like well i don't know when you know when the next one might be you know the
00:46:29
next deal might come in and do you know even more so in the last sort of 18 months
00:46:35
if i and this is with everything it's now i'm so it's the no's that are not more
00:46:41
important to me than the yeses and look i come from a working class background where my mom has always been
00:46:47
like make hey where the sun shines like this is amazing but i've really sort of flipped the switch on that now
00:46:54
and said to myself do i feel it i put myself in this situation this is actually mentally what i do you're gonna laugh so if i get a phone call about something
00:47:06
and something's come in or because i have my five-year plan of stuff that i know that i would like to do
00:47:12
and we will work to make that happen but some you know we're also reactive so people might call
00:47:17
and say we thought about michelle for this and this would be great and i actually pretend that i'm interviewing
00:47:24
myself on the sofa on this morning and i have to promote it no do this because it's
00:47:31
actually mad so if i was interviewing you about i don't know you you now are being the face of this mug right could you sit on the safer and i'm not so tell me
00:47:42
everything so why did you want to do this could you genuinely say it with your gut
00:47:49
and feel passionate about it and believe in it and know it works and feel proud of that association and there are those checklists that i do in my mind and the questions that i would ask someone so tell me about it so
00:48:00
when did this start when did you get the phone call how exciting is it and if i don't feel confident in that interview
00:48:06
i'm not doing it and that is my new thing and for the past sort of year that's what's been playing out in my
00:48:12
mind and it's changed the landscape for me that's such a i love that i think that's so powerful because what it did for me
00:48:19
then is i was trying to think about the ways to sell this mug right i saw your face you weren't selling it and this is your mug in your house by
00:48:26
the way i'm buying you some christmas well i think i think you look closely actually matches the table so there was
00:48:31
it does but you don't believe in it i can tell no i said to myself i think i could do it
00:48:37
once but then getting called to and to build a business or to pursue something you have to do it over and over and over
00:48:44
again for an indefinite period of time maybe 10 years i couldn't do it for 10 years the first time we'd be acting we can all act in the short term if we have
00:48:50
to but acting for a sustained period of time does all kinds of damage i mean eventually it's going to become really
00:48:55
hard to get out of bed to do something i'm not passionate about and it's not just acting the wants because then it turns into the whole new world now which
00:49:01
is social media yeah so then which i treat my social media like my home right i keep it tidy i keep it nice if someone
00:49:08
wants to come in i'll make sure i've tidied up the place so my pictures are good but you know and i you know i try
00:49:14
to visually i'm you know i'm honest but i also like it looking nice i'm not going to post the worst part of my day and i have respect for people that do and i say this a lot because i think
00:49:26
there's become a pressure with social media that we now have to be honest constantly and i should be displaying my
00:49:32
stretch marks at all times and i should be saying my child's just you know i don't know had a really messy
00:49:38
nappy in front of everybody and they're bombed on me and i've got to take a selfie and document that moment i have respect for you if you can do that but
00:49:44
i'm too busy getting myself out of the [ __ ] at the time that the last thing i'm thinking about is a selfie do you know
00:49:49
what i mean so i i really i fee so i think there's now a pressure that we all have to take that approach
00:49:56
which is interesting that we should be a politician we should come comment on current affairs like look
00:50:03
i have a blue tick for the reason that you know for the reason that i'm verified and it's not because i'm a news
00:50:09
anchor and it's not because i know everything that's going on in the world and it's not because
00:50:14
you know i'm constantly going to expose every part of my life and but i'll be the real me on there but i just can't if something bad is happening at home i might be ready to talk about it in a
00:50:27
week but that's the sort of instant instagram for me so i think it sounds like you've had a couple of dms of
00:50:33
people pushing you to talk on things well i think i think but i think you yeah you do and i think it's not just dm's i think people just expect and i'm
00:50:40
also really aware of that i call it the blue tick responsibility i'm really aware of the fact that people could take my information and it it might not
00:50:51
be correct so i don't want to become and i think there was a lot of that over the pandemic people reposting stuff before
00:50:57
they knew the right information and then i've i've then become part of that scaremongering
00:51:03
culture and i feel i feel it's my responsibility to report on stuff that i know everything about
00:51:09
and the stuff that i know everything about is myself my brand my right so i think don't
00:51:14
expect that from people that are also not in the know yeah yeah i think it's quite a it's quite a big ask actually and obviously there's a lot i'm passionate about and that might
00:51:27
you know that might muddle into you know if i know about it and i've got an opinion on it yeah i'm going to tell you but i'm not going to talk about
00:51:32
something that i don't know about i don't think it's fair let's talk about that then things you're passionate about um and
00:51:38
sort of topics you've you've spoken on the black maternity scandal was one of those topics um
00:51:45
i was i was reading about why you wanted to do that documentary and the statistics around um mortality in the black community at
00:51:55
pregnancy are pretty staggering for me yeah the thing that i found really i want to talk to you about particular
00:52:02
was there was a bit of a a conversation when you decided to do that documentary around whether you were black enough
00:52:08
let's it was quite it was quite the conversation let's just call it how it is and i find it we've both got i believe
00:52:15
i'm guessing here a white parent and a black parent as well correct it's interesting because growing up in an
00:52:21
all-white school i was blacker than black yeah i was the blackest thing anyone had ever seen i was the nice guy and then when you go
00:52:28
into adult life and you also seem to get then rejected by the black community even though you've
00:52:34
spent your whole life thinking and you know yeah being the blackest person in in my circle and i i funnily enough i
00:52:41
was posted on um an instagram account when i was announced as a dragon and the debate in
00:52:46
the comments section from this kind of like black instagram account was all around whether i was black enough
00:52:52
and it was black people saying well that's enough for what for what i don't know to like be part of that community
00:52:58
like i'm too much of a lighter i don't even know what that means i'm apparently i'm too much of a lighting to be um
00:53:04
to be part of that community and i just think i have to say and i just don't give a [ __ ] because no one could find me i just
00:53:09
think it's pathetic i think personally i think it's totally [ __ ] pathetic like black people trying to decide whether
00:53:15
i'm black enough to to understand like my mother is nigerian i was born in africa what do i
00:53:21
have to like what do i have to do to be able to speak to yeah look i i'll be honest with you i found that really hard
00:53:28
and i actually found that probably the hardest thing that i've come across in my career i found it really it's our background on that before we
00:53:40
come to this so as you said so at the time of filming the show um there was a campaign started um by two brilliant women um called five times more
00:53:51
and black women were five times more likely to die in and around childbirth than their white counterparts and if you what we say black and brown women but if you were from a mixed
00:54:02
background so i was four times as likely if you were if you were of an asian background you
00:54:08
were three times as likely and it basically if you weren't white it didn't look good for you in and
00:54:14
around childbirth so i got approached by a production company to go on this sort of journey into why
00:54:30
and at the time they asked me i was very pregnant and i just was like it's a little bit too much i found it a bit overwhelming i was also scared about working
00:54:42
um during covid and that you know at the peak of kobe 2.6 we're very much still living through it
00:54:48
um because if you were pregnant you were also at more risk and then obviously if you're of a black background and
00:54:54
pregnant you're at more risk of getting covered and also it was so i was just like look i'm going to be in my house
00:54:59
i will 100 because this was just a pitch at this time right and you know how this works you can make a million different
00:55:05
programs but none of them necessarily make it on telly so i said look if you think you put my name on this pitch to
00:55:12
channel four is going to get it across the line put my name on it but i'm in the new year once i've had the baby in october
00:55:18
get let me just i will i would i'm here for it i will do it so that conversation happened
00:55:24
they said yes we would want to commission it we'll wait for you all to do in the new year so that was that and then
00:55:33
fast forward to we announced that we were taping it which was probably we'd already started
00:55:40
but we were announced because i think i wanted to get a couple more women that i'd found through my channel
00:55:46
to maybe share their experiences and so i sort of did a call out on social media i announced i was filming
00:55:52
it and did a call out to to say this is what we're filming and it sparked a conversation it's back to a real
00:55:57
conversation of did you know and a lot of people were like yes what you know white midwives had messaged me saying
00:56:03
i've seen this you know i would i'd like to be a part of it you know there's a there's lots that needs to be needs to be done here but first and foremost people didn't know those stats and i
00:56:15
think that was for me really important that we we get that on a big stage there's some women that have been doing some incredible work for years working
00:56:26
tirelessly um to promote these figures and to you know get some sort of acknowledgement that
00:56:32
this happens so let's give it a big voice right so first of all the conversation was and
00:56:38
that was the feeling everyone was like well done i didn't know about this and then overnight the doll turned
00:56:46
there was a post that was posted on instagram that was from another woman who is
00:56:52
an author um a presenter that said that she had been asked to front the same show so this conversation has happened and it was like great and then
00:57:04
she had said i'd been asked to front this show which obviously i'd woken up and seen
00:57:10
this post and was mortified she was a darker skinned black woman the first thing i did was dm her this is my number i don't know what [ __ ]
00:57:21
has gone down here but this is my number give me a call to this day i've not heard from her
00:57:29
and then that sort of triggered this whole conversation of the fact that i'd taken a a darker
00:57:36
skinned woman's bread and it it the dial switched overnight and i was can i tell you i was beside myself devastated because first of all that isn't i'm not whether you're white black
00:57:50
i'm not stealing any woman's bread that's not for me so i kind of wanted to get to the bottom of this so i called
00:57:55
channel four i caught i was like just tell me has anybody because i was on the pitch right so i was like this is
00:58:02
bizarre because we pitched this together has anybody been asked to host this apart from me because i'm not cool with
00:58:09
this and this isn't i'd i'll do it with her we'll do it together but this isn't the way that i work
00:58:15
and she and she hadn't been asked and obviously as i said there's lots of shows that are being made so i'm not sure if there was
00:58:21
another production that she'd maybe had word with and maybe started making something similar that i that i don't
00:58:27
know and it's probably more than likely so obviously it sparked this debate around colorism which is also a great conversation to be having we don't have that conversation
00:58:38
enough but it wasn't the debate we were trying to spark we were talking about maternal mortality so it sort of snowballed into
00:58:45
this chat and colorism most definitely exists i'm aware of that i might be lighter than one woman but i'm definitely darker than some that's how my life has been so
00:58:57
in a way i was like look this is at my expense and this conversation that sparked is
00:59:03
incorrect and it isn't this isn't how it went down however it sparked a conversation that
00:59:09
i'm not gonna release a statement and stop it and say listen it wasn't and i'm not gonna out another woman for saying the wrong
00:59:16
information because that isn't me so i let it i let it go because i just thought do you know what that's also a conversation worth having yes to some i definitely have it a lot
00:59:27
easier because i am lighter skinned but as i said before i'm also darker than some so i understand it so i let that conversation play out for that reason because the more we talk about
00:59:39
these things the better right however it was harsh and it was a hard pill to swallow because in this instance this isn't it wasn't it i felt really hurt because
00:59:52
i was first of all i was being denied of my black gene yeah first off secondly the community that i'm making this show for and that we were fighting
01:00:03
to get this on tv it was the first documentary of this kind being made weren't happy about it until they saw it and i was like just wait and see it because it's actually not about me it's
01:00:13
about the brilliant women that have been brave enough to take part in this dark so yeah it was a really weird period of
01:00:19
time because i genuinely didn't know how to handle it because i didn't i then put the show on the other foot and then i
01:00:25
said okay so if i'd been asked to do this which i had to do this show put my name on it to get this commissioned
01:00:32
and i'd said no if you think it's going to get commission but we really feel rushed that by putting your profile to
01:00:37
it we'll get it across the line and if i'd have said no am i not then doing my bit for the back
01:00:42
am i not then doing what i should be doing and so i really imagine it was a yeah
01:00:48
imagine imagine imagining that that story broke michelle was asked to do this um documentary about um
01:00:54
the increase in the the staggering statistics of mortality in black women at childbirth and she said no
01:01:00
imagine that you would have got the same this is a lose-lose situation and that's how it really felt and i
01:01:06
think that was the biggest frustration and also in all of this so this big conversation happened
01:01:14
fine okay i get it and i'm not saying that colorism doesn't exist because it really [ __ ] does and it's awful and
01:01:20
it's unjust and it isn't right and there's a lot of work to do in that space and i think that'll be
01:01:25
something that exists for a very long time unfortunately however that it wasn't it and it wasn't right to make this situation about colorism
01:01:38
and yeah i just found it a real struggle because at the same time and there was a
01:01:43
lady called mars who's just a brilliant woman she's a doula and she has been campaigning
01:01:50
for this disparity for a very long time and she said the thing that you're forgetting she called me because she saw
01:01:56
it all go down she was like are you all right are you okay and i literally burst into tears
01:02:03
she was like you're forgetting you've you've lost yourself out of these stats because being a mixed woman you are still four times as likely to
01:02:14
die than a white woman you're losing yourself in this too and your children and the re so you are still very much part of those
01:02:22
stats so let's not lose this here you know these the stats are about black and brown women so i had to remember and there was talk of we had a meeting at my management and
01:02:33
we go we're going to pull out of this should we just pull out of this because and i was like no do you know what i'm
01:02:39
not because it's not actually about me and they will learn that when this program
01:02:45
airs because these brilliant women have trusted me to protect their stories we were so careful we had we had one director a black female director and it was just we didn't have a soundie we
01:02:56
didn't have any a whole crew we turned up to these women's homes and we protected we wanted them to feel safe so it was just her and i and they could tell their story and we didn't want to sort of
01:03:09
make them relive their trauma in a way that wasn't going to be helpful so we it was we we did it in the best way that we
01:03:16
could um and what's interesting is i've had so many different letters since saying i'm so sorry that we wrote this article because actually we watch the show and it's not what we so it's just funny that when i
01:03:30
talk about that blue tick responsibility one post can set a whole community alight when actually it was incorrect and that's where i think we all need to do
01:03:41
better in our position to make sure that we're always posting the right information when we do that
01:03:49
social media is is very much a place of um trying to hold everybody to a standard of fit like false perfectionism like as if we're all just perfect human beings we make perfect
01:04:00
decisions there is correct and there is wrong on social media there's no nuance there's no middle ground there's no
01:04:06
appreciation for like complexity and how okay this is right but also this is right that that
01:04:12
conversation doesn't happen because we're the algorithm pushes us into these tribes where we're either left or right
01:04:18
um when you're trying to be true to yourself when you're trying to um speak on issues that matter it's almost it's almost impossible in in the age of social media and what i
01:04:30
really like about what you've described there is um there was this intense pressure to like fall in line with
01:04:36
correct with what when i say correctness i don't mean that it's right i mean like they're like false correctness this is
01:04:42
you know it's like a mob screaming in your face rochelle this is correctness stop do come and join us yeah on the
01:04:49
side of false perfection and come and and you had the i guess the i wouldn't even describe it as courage because that doesn't feel like the right word but you had the sense to say i'm gonna do this anyway
01:05:00
um a lot of people don't have that these days a lot of i find it so incredibly hard like
01:05:05
i'm someone who's probably at some point going to get cancelled because i really when you describe that story to me it just pisses me off so much yeah but you
01:05:12
have to sit on it i know and i but with this it was different because of the reason i was doing it yeah so i was like
01:05:19
look i don't want to say anything because there's a lot of noise happening and i've not even said anything yet yeah and my the old me with what we were
01:05:25
talking about would have just gone yeah but really i didn't want if i spoke on it it would be another daily mail article and the noise would have just it would just kept
01:05:38
you know snowballing out of control so i was just like look i'm not do it this isn't about me it's not about me it's about
01:05:50
i had a job in my mind and my mind and that's what kept me going because those women that i spoke to i was it was for
01:05:56
them and the whole time i was checking they were okay with this look do you think and i was getting their their take on
01:06:02
this and if they had said to me at one point rush i actually think maybe stepped down from this
01:06:09
i would have done genuinely i would have done but they had trusted me and i i'm not going to let them down we're
01:06:15
thinking about the bigger picture here and i think so it was that so i just i just kept silent on it because i thought
01:06:23
what is it the queen you don't ex do like the queen if someone said to me once you you never
01:06:29
you don't explain and you don't complain in certain situations i was like i've never done like the queen in my life but
01:06:34
i'm going to put it to use right now because i didn't want to make it about me i
01:06:40
didn't want to make it about the fact that do you know what actually i was scared of taking my kid to nursery that day because i got death threats i didn't
01:06:46
want to make it about do you know it's not about me it was about the bigger picture and i
01:06:51
think i just had to hold on to that marv did take my phone off me that day i lost my
01:06:57
i lost my for the weekend he was like that is going off and he literally texts everybody that works with me and was
01:07:03
like if you need him here but like no more phone you're right if you had responded it would have been fuel for the fire i think when those moments happen people are intent on misunderstanding
01:07:15
that's what it feels like they are tr so even if you'd come with your explanation honestly the lens in which they would
01:07:21
have viewed your explanation or your side of the story is like where can we find another [ __ ] twist exactly and i
01:07:27
thought you know what a num it's it's too tiring and then if i say something then someone like you said
01:07:33
would yeah but you still didn't and then i would have had to have gone back to that and i think it's a never-ending
01:07:38
yeah it's a never-ending cycle but that that definitely was like navigating through that was probably the hardest thing i've actually been through ever
01:07:51
would you would you if you could now erase that experience and not have going through it would you yeah you would erase it yeah
01:07:58
i'd erase the i wouldn't erase doing the show and doing i would have raised that day and that
01:08:05
that it was just awful but didn't it teach you something because you'd be erasing the lesson it
01:08:10
taught you as well if you raised the experience yeah you're right you are right yeah
01:08:16
i'm gonna give you an eraser would you erase that day no a little bit just just just touch it up a little bit um no do you know what i think i think you're right and i actually
01:08:28
think that happened at the start of this year and do you know what you was we were saying like over the past year my whole
01:08:34
outlook has changed on a lot of things and maybe you're right maybe it has also come
01:08:40
from experiences like that that have taught me not to you know not to react so quickly
01:08:47
and not i think sometimes we're so quick to jump out to our own defense because i don't want someone to think i'm that person and i don't want them to think that i would do that to another woman guess what i know i would never do
01:08:59
that to another woman that isn't me the first thing i did when i saw that was message her and say babe here's my
01:09:05
number call me because that isn't me but do i need to defend that to a whole lot of people that have already made up their mind no because it's exhausting and
01:09:16
i'm not achieving anything so i think sometimes we're so desperate to to defend ourselves and put out a statement
01:09:22
to say actually this isn't what happened and you know justice yeah cause it sounds a lot like what we
01:09:28
described with the relationship with your father that need for justice ends up being really self-harming yeah and accepting
01:09:34
acceptance again is the yeah and because i know i was coming from a place of love i was coming from the best place in the
01:09:40
world people were saying things like oh yeah you just you've got you've got enough money give it to a presenter that didn't
01:09:46
have that opportunity i'm like i didn't take the money from the show that's what you don't know i gave it to the charity
01:09:52
in order that i was working with i didn't take a penny from that event if anything it cost me money
01:09:57
so but was i going to write that in a statement and to make myself look like a you know look like the angel no because it wasn't about me and i think sometimes it is just taking that like you don't
01:10:10
have to jump to your defense to prove that you're an incredible person all the time it's just i know where it was coming
01:10:17
from and sometimes it's enough and it's exhausting because someone's always going to have something to say always
01:10:23
always especially on social media always yeah i i i i've gotten to the place where i can
01:10:29
open my dms and i'll be reading it and it'll be like love the podcast you're amazing another podcast you're amazing and then one guy goes make these
01:10:35
podcasts are proper [ __ ] and you look at it and you go like do you laugh now i do yeah i'll screenshot
01:10:41
it we're shutting down the podcast brian from skunthorpe with like a egg avatar has decided i know but this but this is exactly it
01:10:51
right and there was that that time when that prudent i turned everything off i turned off comments i turned up um
01:10:59
and then i just like i'm not dealing with this i'm just gonna live my life i literally cried
01:11:05
for 48 hours and was devastated it was really weird i made a roast dinner marv had my phone and then i remember him that week going well i think you can be you're all right
01:11:18
now on this because i i was like right let's let's cancel filming this week because i also didn't want it to affect
01:11:24
the contributors thinking oh we now can't be part of this show which we thought we were because now
01:11:29
we're worried the black community don't approve of you know it means there was a bit of that so i was like look let's stop filming this week
01:11:34
and we'll go back to it when we all have had some sleep and we don't feel too emotional and
01:11:41
so that's what we did we picked it up the following week so i took that week off and
01:11:47
rebecca that works with me she marvin was on the phone today said right can you just do me a favor before you
01:11:52
give it back so just clear the dms and then she was actually like look it's actually not as bad as you think and
01:11:58
whatever whatever it you know it's fine we move we know the intention and she sent me a screenshot of one of my messages it was like you're cancelled to me you're this you're that you're you
01:12:10
know what you know there was a few of them and then it was like uh can you just tell me the recipe to
01:12:16
your roast potato and then the next one would be like i had so much respect for you before but i can't believe what you've done and then
01:12:23
it would be like um where's your dress from when you were so it was you know it's just like do you know what that is just
01:12:30
and i also think it was that period of time where everybody was locked down and it was like
01:12:36
everyone was on their phones more which became like everybody came out and it was like it felt just like such an
01:12:41
attack i was like do you know what the reality is sometimes you're not going to get everything right and deep down i really don't think i would have handled anything differently
01:12:53
because i know where it came from and the place but you're not always going to get everything right and not everyone is
01:12:58
always going to be impressed with everything you do and i think that was maybe maybe that's why it was the hardest time
01:13:04
because maybe it was the first moment in my career that blindsided me that i wasn't in control of that someone could have said something that wasn't quite the truth and i had no control over that
01:13:16
and yeah so maybe that's why i found it because i wasn't you know normally i'm like i know what i'm doing i go on telly i do my thing i do this or i've released a single and it come
01:13:27
but i just didn't know i could yeah that that was possible and i think that's probably why it got me in the gut
01:13:36
you talked a little bit there about earlier about um you said made a comment that you've never had one like this when
01:13:41
describing marvin and i can see there you know he's doing a lot to shield you and protect you by taking your phone and
01:13:47
kind of being a human shield from a lot of that chaos um and you also said earlier in the
01:13:52
conversation that your business is all-consuming yeah so how do you find that balance because i'm i'm in a
01:13:58
relationship now and i struggle with the balance of do it being my professional steve and
01:14:04
all that stuff and then having to like switch off and fall into a different mindset where there's no like kpis and it's not about profit and like you know
01:14:10
my girlfriend just wants to do simple things watch movies watch something about ayahuasca and peru like and i i
01:14:16
have to kind of compartmentalize but like how have you and you've had a you know
01:14:22
outside looking in again it's important to say that because we never know what's going on yeah we
01:14:27
talked about families so it looks like you guys have had a really solid relationship how have you achieved that how do you find that balance and
01:14:33
what's what's the key i think we just have this real understanding of one another
01:14:39
and i think we we both really appreciate how lucky we are like that's something that we always say like i can say it from my point of view because i feel very lucky to have him
01:14:50
i'm not gonna say why he's lucky to have me but why is he lucky to have you i'm joking well um no so i can only speak for me but it's
01:15:03
something that we always agree on like he really is my calmness in the chaos like if that makes any and he always has been he's got that real calming demeanor
01:15:13
and he really is that for me so we've always we've always both had a real respect of
01:15:20
how lucky we are in this world that it's kind of like that we are in to find somebody that's
01:15:27
solid like i know how rare that is have we nailed balance babe no we have three kids we have full-time jobs we're self-employed we're winging it pretty much through
01:15:40
life but never with each other he makes me feel really secure you know and i think that is something that's really important to me and i don't know if that's where my dad comes into play too
01:15:53
where that like he like we could be anywhere in the world but if we're together in our little
01:15:59
family this evening before we had kids like i'm like happy i'm i'm good with life
01:16:04
and i and i feel like that's why i can i'm in a place i'm not going to give him all the credit actually here but i'm in a place where in my career i feel like i can take a
01:16:15
lot on like when i arrived today i was like i'm not good i've not stopped but i've got i've all that side of my life feels very
01:16:23
content and is content which can push me on to do other stuff and when i say like i look he'll always
01:16:28
be like oh my god it's amazing that you've done this or that and people will talk about well i
01:16:34
yeah it's great but i've got i've got good people behind me you know and and he is definitely at the
01:16:39
forefront of that for sure you were you talked about how you were cheated on a previous relationship
01:16:46
often when people are go through that when they've gone through that kind of deception and dishonesty from a partner they go into the next relationship kind
01:16:52
of holding holding it the next person like responsible for the last person and i see that a lot of my dms i had this conversation the other day and i don't normally respond to this kind of thing but she this
01:17:03
this um this woman had sent me her screenshots with her boyfriend and she was hammering him going show me your
01:17:09
phone and then she explained to me she'd been cheated on in the past so she's insecure and she actually said to her her current
01:17:16
boyfriend like i think it was guilty until proven innocent and i was like no honey no
01:17:22
i was like you're going to do so much damage by yeah to the foundation of the relationship by bringing that but it
01:17:28
goes back to what we were saying again you do damage to yourself because now she is feeling
01:17:35
that she constantly has to be that person but who's happy here because the boyfriend isn't happy doing that and she really isn't so i think that was a real conscious decision for me to not take
01:17:48
that into this because i don't think you can ever let any relationship grow its full potential
01:17:54
if you're still dealing with old [ __ ] and that's in friendships that's in the workplace but i think yeah for me that was really really
01:18:06
important and like anybody until someone gives me a reason to feel a certain way like i'm not going to meet you and think oh i met someone the other day that
01:18:18
interviewed me and was a bit of a dick so this day is going to be horrendous because sorry what was that i mean
01:18:24
you're a person you're a lovely guy and we've had a very nice chat um but do you know what i mean
01:18:30
like you can't walk into every situation thinking because you had a bad time one day that it's going to be the same the
01:18:36
next and i think that's what i was really i will say when i met mark i was very anti-getting with
01:18:42
him didn't they tell you not to get with someone in a boy band and yeah anyway yeah i did really not eat me and frankie
01:18:48
they were like it's really going well girls you know you've worked well the singles are going
01:18:53
down well the worst the only thing that you could do now you know afterwards work so we didn't
01:18:59
have that overnight success as i was saying the only thing you could do because it's a really hard thing to get
01:19:04
girls to like girls girls love to be fans of boys and boy bands the only thing you can do to mess it up now
01:19:11
you've got the girls on side is to date someone from boy groups and you thought and i just remember
01:19:16
looking at frank cat was in this meeting at the record label she was at the time she was dating dougie from mcfly
01:19:23
and i was obviously dating marv and i was like well we [ __ ] this one so it was kind of like we tried to keep it a secret for so long and i remember like sneaking into one of marv's gigs
01:19:38
and i was watching from the sound desk and a girl come up to me and she said you have ruined my life i was like oh i think i know what he meant the other
01:19:49
day she was like like with intent like she was like you have ruined my life and i was like huh like okay you know it's like i couldn't really hear and then but the third time i was like oh i
01:20:01
totally understand and the eyes i knew what she meant like i remember being like that's mad
01:20:07
because she wanted marvin yeah and i remember thinking oh okay then this isn't going to be
01:20:14
straightforward but now the other side all these years later reunion tours i don't get that anymore i don't get that anywhere else and now i'd be like well babe listen you've got
01:20:28
to contend with snoring you've got to deal with it i'd give him a list of reasons why i've probably helped your life
01:20:33
what's he like as a father oh the best like do you know what's mad is i kind of when i when i speak about this it's it's
01:20:45
a really weird thing that sometimes sits with me odd and not because of my dad and my childhood actually because we spend a lot of time going
01:20:58
as a society people will say you're so lucky marv is such a good dad and i'm like uh-huh he is and my children are lucky to have a good dad i get that totally get it because i didn't
01:21:09
have that i really get it but at the same time there's always a part of me that goes
01:21:15
he's doing what he should be doing and we do all that oh it's daddy daycare today no he's just taking his kids out no one
01:21:22
says it's mummy daycare today or it's well they're lucky to have a good mum because it's assumed you should be a
01:21:27
good mum right you should be a good mum you should be able to have a career you know be be a hot a hot girl for your fella
01:21:38
you should be an amazing there's a lot of pressure that's put on women in that perspective i really really think so and i think so yes he is an amazing dad and he is devoted and he is
01:21:50
patient and he is everything i'd want him to be everything that i would have wanted for
01:21:55
you know of a dad but really at the same time i'm like no guess what he's stepping up to the plate
01:22:02
and i'm not taking anything away from him because i really appreciate him and we really do in my house he's a rock but
01:22:08
at the same time it's we live in this weird world where it's like you get a clap for
01:22:15
being a great dad but if you're a mom and you're working you're like oh she's out to work is she
01:22:20
not going to make the nativity on time you know there's that like judgment for doing what dads do if you're a mum it's a really weird concept and it's something i wasn't aware of until i had
01:22:31
kids so true i've actually never thought about that before but that is so incredibly true it's like a dad is
01:22:37
giving a trophy a few daddy daycare he's taking them out again for the day unbelievable
01:22:43
i literally did that every day this week but no one said anything you know it's bizarre it's bizarre to me
01:22:50
earlier on you said you talked about a five-year plan yeah so what is the michelle hume's
01:22:55
five-year plan so in career it would be tv i feel like i've got enough i feel like i don't want to i'm don't
01:23:07
want to saturate myself with stuff so i'm trying to find a real balance of there not being an announcement every
01:23:13
other week of something else i'm doing and i'm so excited to announce now do i i'd like balance so i would i love the
01:23:19
fact that me and marvin have a show together that's a saturday night entertainment show which is a family show which is music it couldn't be it
01:23:26
couldn't be more perfect for us i love that so i would love that to run until the end of time
01:23:32
i love what i do when i dip in and out of daytime television that suits me in terms of my business i want it to keep
01:23:38
growing at the rate that it is that's really important to me i obviously now manage myself which is a
01:23:45
very different thing and that was something that was really crucial in my five-year plan tell me why you made the
01:23:50
decision to move away from external management and to manage yourself and what does it mean to manage yourself
01:23:56
i've got my manager in the corner there so sell me on the upside this could get bloody awkward
01:24:03
so i i could never do it so i i've been in this industry in different forms since i was 12 years old so i was in scope juniors when i was 12. i then did
01:24:18
presenting for kids television and then obviously went into the group and then i went back into telly after the group
01:24:23
ended um so i've always a level of guidance throughout this because it's something that we all need it's a crazy world right
01:24:35
but i've always sort of been at the mercy at some of somebody else and i think i've been really lucky over the years to work with some of the best
01:24:48
management teams in the industry i really really have and i feel there was a time where i was
01:24:54
desperate to be managed before all of this i want a manager and i want to maybe they can make this happen for me
01:25:01
and then i got to a point where i feel like in terms of tv in terms of what i do for branding or for how my job looks
01:25:12
i feel like i'm not trying to build a name for myself anymore in the sense of a lot of the execs that these the channels know me they know what i can do if they want me for a certain thing
01:25:26
they're going to book me and yes i will always pitch ideas and i'll have my own ideas and they might take them or they might not but i got to a point
01:25:34
where i feel like in terms of that i'm happy in what i'm doing and really nobody knows me better than i know myself it felt like a new challenge i felt like
01:25:46
i didn't want to be part of a big corporate firm where people it takes people quite a while to get an answer
01:25:51
whether i want to do x y and z i'd like someone to be able to speak to me or one another
01:25:58
and i i could tell you when i'm on a whatsapp ralph says thank you you want to do no no don't waste your time let's
01:26:04
not take months to work up and offer and present it to me because we've wasted everybody's time so i wouldn't have done it anyway
01:26:09
so i just felt like i got to a real point where it sounds like control it does doesn't it it really does consistent things it's what this podcast is what this episode is going to be
01:26:20
called control um but it really was actually gaining that control back like i didn't want to keep being advised of what someone thinks i should do it's not like okay
01:26:33
you have a very clever business and a clever firm there's a lot of numbers and a lot of things i don't understand but it's not like somebody's saying to you
01:26:39
this is what we need to do because of xyz and this is how this is moving so we need to go this and this is the market we need to dominate
01:26:45
really people advising me on me because my business is me so i know how i know what my vibe is because i am the vibe i'm the verb yeah
01:26:56
um so i think i just got to a point where i thought it's time to empower myself and trust in that because there were ideas being thrown around i'm like oh no this isn't oh this is so far off of me
01:27:10
so yeah i had a real realization and it was quite an emotional thing too because it felt like a weird sort of like a break up like you know we've had a really good road
01:27:22
but i don't want this in the same way anymore and it felt more that was the hardest thing to do because i don't i
01:27:29
don't like upsetting people and and we've built friendships over the years which i hope still remain and i'm sure they will
01:27:35
but it was that that was harder than the actual decision which told me everything and you know what some of this is your
01:27:42
fault uh thank you for coming rachelle we had a great podcast i would like to say thank you for clicking around because
01:27:48
you've said something and i think you don't listen to what i saw no i did i watched
01:27:54
you talking and you said who had you'd met someone you met obama oh you spoke to i couldn't find 51
01:28:02
that and i was like this is it and i literally the next day i i called them the next day so it's actually sort of your fault
01:28:13
so the context on that is when i saw me and obama both spoke on the same stage in sao paulo um a couple of years back
01:28:20
in brazil and one of the things he talked about on stage was when he had to make the decision whether to take out
01:28:26
osama bin laden or not they didn't have all the information they have like tip offs and they have little snippets
01:28:32
of information that suggests bin laden is hiding in that that complex in pakistan but they never know 100
01:28:40
and there's lives at risk he's sending in 20 or 40 american soldiers to go to fly into pakistan at night in these helicopters and if they get caught if they get shot down then he's gonna have
01:28:50
to you know sit with that for the rest of his life but he says when you're the president of the united states and you
01:28:56
have these huge decisions to make you're never going to get to 100 certainty so what he did which i really do believe in
01:29:03
is once you get to like 51 certainty on your decision then make it and be at peace that you did the best with the information you had because so many people and this is kind of what he didn't say but what i took from it is
01:29:15
what ends up happening is the procrastination of the decision um ends up costing you more in the long
01:29:21
term than actually just making the decision and finding out if you're right or wrong because like it's the same in business if i i'm thinking about
01:29:27
something but i'm not entirely sure but i suspect it's the right thing i should just go ahead and make the decision
01:29:32
and then find out hopefully in the next couple of months whether i was right if i was wrong i can actually just reverse
01:29:37
the decision again but a lot of people spend like years remunerating over these like relationship decisions or work decisions
01:29:43
or professions they cost themselves 10 years which does more damage than the decision itself at 51 would have done
01:29:49
exactly that so and i honestly it was like i listened to that at the best time then the next day i did it and i honestly felt
01:30:00
the the reason that i knew as soon as i'd done it that i'd that i knew it was right well i knew anyway but the reassurance i had is i felt the emotional side of it i hated i hated
01:30:14
you know the phone call and the meeting and the you know letting people feeling like i've let somebody down and in the sense of upsetting them because
01:30:25
they would have probably liked to have continued working together so i felt i don't want to upset anyone it's not bad blood it's just making a decision i need
01:30:31
to make for myself and i felt shitty first of all because i felt like oh god do you think they're really upset do you think
01:30:42
but that's that's all i felt everything else i felt like i had just had a massage and a weight was off my shoulders and i was like okay right now we go isn't it funny how we always know
01:30:54
um we always know i was ready i felt like i needed to celebrate the only thing i felt bad
01:31:00
about was potentially upsetting somebody but everything else was right everything
01:31:06
else there was like i felt like oh thank goodness i've done that there's so many people listening to this podcast now
01:31:11
that know the answer to a decision and in fact because of that psychological discomfort associated with making the phone call
01:31:17
letting someone down they procrastinate off into the future but they know you know like i always think with the
01:31:24
major decisions in my life especially the ones which i really did dither and procrastinate over and regretted not making quicker i knew early and i
01:31:32
actually talked myself out of it because i was trying to avoid that discomfort of confronting it and that's what it is
01:31:38
it's the like when i say confrontation and it's not in the aggressive sense it's that
01:31:45
actually having to deliver that news that's the what some when you know something's right and you know it's
01:31:51
something you want to do and you are 51 plus percent sure the hardest thing you have to do is deliver it so do you know what i said i was like i've just got to put my big girl pants on as i call him i'm going to
01:32:05
pull up my big girl pants and if that's the worst part of this then that is just do you know me if that is the worst part the worst part is that essentially you're a good person because
01:32:19
you like you said you don't want to upset so you're skirting around it because you don't want to actually have to say it
01:32:24
but you know it's right and that will nine times out of ten be the worst part i think is delivering it because you know it's right for you and your journey and you just have to lean into that and
01:32:35
just get the balls too and it's that once you've done it you'll feel you will just feel so liberated it's crazy we have a tradition on this podcast
01:32:46
which is a fairly new tradition where the previous guest asks the next guest a question oh and i
01:32:53
actually i don't know whether people believe me or not i actually don't know the question because what happens is they sign it they pass the book to jack
01:32:59
and then jack places this in front of me the next time we have a guest okay so i'm going to read this one for you
01:33:04
what would you like to pay attention to that you don't currently pay attention to and why oh that's a really good question
01:33:16
do you know what i would like to pay more attention to this is and this isn't i'm not a bad person by the way you don't need to worry i would really like to pay more attention to my dog
01:33:29
okay is this really this is really a simple answer i know however i work a lot in the day marvin works evening so he's around a lot in the day so he does all the stuff with the dog
01:33:41
but when i walk through the door she loves me so much so unconditionally i think i've not even seen you all day and she's around and you know yes we might we've gone out for the walk and
01:33:52
i'm doing the kids and then i've got what you know and then i think oh i've not really like laid on the sofa and really like
01:34:00
made the most of you it almost feels undeserved doesn't it to some degree yeah the excitement i get from my dog
01:34:05
after i've walked through the door after a month in new york yeah you'd expect them to be pissed off in the corner like that oh yeah now
01:34:11
you're rolling this time yeah what don't you call this yeah so i feel like i would like to this is really yeah
01:34:18
i'm going to sound like a really bad dog owner i promise you i'm not she's she has so much love but i would just like
01:34:24
to give her a bit more attention rochelle thank you thank you for coming here today and having this conversation
01:34:30
with me it's been incredibly uh inspiring it's taught me a bunch of lessons about the importance of
01:34:36
authenticity as well and being your true self because i can tell from you know this um brief encounter that you are
01:34:41
you're you've kind of leaned into your own authentic self and that's and it's so evidently clear where that's taking
01:34:48
you in terms of fulfillment and being a solid human being and your kindness and your empathy and that's really what i
01:34:53
take from you there's so much inspiration surrounding how the hell you're managing to juggle three kids and build this business and all that stuff
01:34:59
but the overarching feeling is you just feel like this very bright light i know you're bad at taking compliments because i know you said so in an interview or
01:35:05
two but i've not i've just not mastered that yeah yeah yeah yeah i just can't thank you i appreciate it i just can't say thanks i'm just like
01:35:13
oh no i'm not no it's fine but you are you're an incredibly bright light and um that's probably also why you've built
01:35:19
such a phenomenal community because that comes through like you can't act like a good person you either are you aren't
01:35:24
and you clearly definitely are so thank you for giving me your presents today and thank you for all the wisdom it's been incredibly um fruitful conversation
01:35:30
for me and i'm sure everyone listening has enjoyed it thank you i've really enjoyed it thank you thank you
01:35:36
[Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] you