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Could you do me a quick favor? If you're listening to this, please hit the follow or subscribe button. It helps more than you know, and we invite subscribers in
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every month to watch the show in person. People know Jack, mate, for being the guy to slag stuff off, and that's funny. And then when the content dried up, well, I've now got to go and look for
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someone who's doing something wrong. You can only do that for so long before you just hate yourself.
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Didn't really get on with my mom. She would do and say things that I don't think any mom should really do. things
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would happen at home and I'd have like a mark on my face like from someone that shouldn't have given me that mark. I
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made a video reacting so well as advent calendar. That changed the game for me and the the upload before that I was
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going to quit. I struggle with um health anxiety and OCD. There's probably 15 to
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20 times a day where I actually convince myself that I have cancer. So, you're too fearful to go and get a
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health check done? If I go there and the doctor's like, "Yeah, you're ill." Then that's the end
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for me. What do you mean that's the end for you? [Music] Jack, give me the uh give me the context on your life. You know, I I sat here yesterday with Israel Adisa and he told
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me about his childhood. Um and there was hints of that that really kind of felt similar to the experience that I read
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you've had as as a young man as well. And then also I think the other one where I could see real distinct similarities and I think you might have
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listened to this podcast is Jimmy Carr. Yeah. Yeah. What a man. Yeah. What a man. Right. He's like I didn't realize he was he was going to be
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such a philosopher. One of the things he said to me was you know when someone becomes a comedic figure which I
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consider you to be in many respects. I think you Yeah. Good. Okay. Um he he says that instead of asking because
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there's you know there's this kind of stereotype that the person themselves is struggling with something and they're trying to make other people laugh. He
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said to me, as you might have heard, he said, "You've actually got to ask them which one of their parents they were trying to please or to to make happy."
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Does that resonate with you at all? Um, yeah. I mean, upbringing didn't really get on with my mom, I don't think
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she truly understood the potential in YouTube, whereas my dad always did. So, when I was sort of like like I guess How
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old are you, Steve? 29. 29. Okay. So, I'm 29 in like two weeks time. So like we we were kind of like
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the first kind of content creators in a way like we we kind of like paved the way if you will. Some people did.
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Yeah. I was late to the party. Well, people like Charlie is so cool like did and I just followed them I guess. But um yeah, my mom didn't really
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get she might she might argue this point. I don't know. But I don't think she really saw the um the potential in what I was
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doing. So I was just some kid in my bedroom just talking to a camera just waffling not getting a real job sort of
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thing. and um she has she has her issues and stuff with alcohol and whatnot. Ended up kicking me out. Long story
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short, um I was kind of at a crossroads at some point quite early on, maybe like 18, 19, where I was living in my uncle's
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box room at his at his um flat, which isn't the nicest environment in the world, I think he wouldn't mind me saying. And then I kind of thought,
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okay, I have to try and take this YouTube [ __ ] serious. And at that time, I didn't know what the YouTube [ __ ] was.
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So, ever since that moment, I think the pivotal moment for me was I bought a whiteboard. I bought a whiteboard and that changed
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that. Yeah, that that changed everything. And because I never took YouTube serious like a job, like a 9 to5. It was always something that I
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would just just do just just moan about something or take do a funny take on something or
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whatever. So, I bought a whiteboard, chopped it up into a month and wrote my plan. And then I think it was in like
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2012, I had this thing where I was like, I'm just going to say yes to anything that comes in my inbox. And I just for
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365 days just did. And then ever since then, it's just felt like I'm on this weird kind of I've still not worked it out. Like you've got your [ __ ] together, Steve. No, I haven't. No, I haven't.
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Look how many cameras there are. It doesn't I think cameras isn't, you know, an indication of having my [ __ ] together. But okay, I take You're a dragon. It's mad, isn't it? Yeah.
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Just the word dragon, like that's mental. It is. It is crazy. You've just reminded me of how much I resonated with what you
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were saying because I had a really um what's the right word? I had a a real issue with the fact that
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my mother was so different, right, and so challenging at times. Like, as I write about in my book, showing up to my school in her lingerie when I was maybe seven years old.
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Yeah. And things like that. and and I've always really wanted to have a normal family
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and a normal mother and that kind of thing. And I kind of I kind of got that from reading
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your stuff. And there's a couple of things where you talk about some of the challenges you think she has, which I also think my mother has.
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Oh, wow. Really? She's actually started to talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Um, sorry. Yeah. I don't know if my
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mom's ever been diagnosed with it. Um cuz there's always been kind of like rumors and that that that's the case and
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I've cuz I've not been a part of her life in the past like 8 n years. I don't know. Oh, you haven't? No, not really. I see her at like my nan
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at Christmas time and stuff, but there's always a very awkward kind of vibe where now it's kind of just like nodding
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terms. And for someone who's your mom, that's a weird that's a weird thing to be. Yeah. It's just it's just Yeah.
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Growing up, it's just you hit the nail on the head there when you said about your mom. like she would do and say things that I don't think any mom should
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really do. And it's hard now because at what point do you at what point is it water under the bridge? Like at what point do you go, "Okay, I'm just going to make up with her." Sounds very like
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juvenile and stuff, but when so much has happened in your past, how when is the day when you go, "Okay, I'll accept you
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again now." And she sees that cuz she'll text me every now and then. But my worry is that because she's always struggled
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with alcoholism, she'll text me at half 11 on a Saturday night. I want to get that text message
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at 10:30 on a Tuesday morning. I don't want to get it at 11:30 on a Saturday night. So, I won't reply and then she'll
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just assume that there's a lot of animosity still there. And I guess there is. But yeah, it's funny cuz I sat here
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actually I think yesterday with my sister and I don't see my sister much. I think I see my sister once a year. And my sister really wants me to kind of
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like reconnect with my mom and like get back on good terms with her. But um for the exact for the I think it sounds like
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pretty similar reasons to you. I was trying to explain to my sister that like I need to have boundaries with everybody
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in my life, not just like my friends, but also with my family. And at at some point you've got to protect yourself.
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Yeah. from going back around the [ __ ] you know like taking them back in forgiving them for whatever they might
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have done for you done to you and then getting sucked back in because you know you're you've fallen for this trick once
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almost. Yeah. Oh mate I've fallen for it too many times. Yeah. And and I really got my life together and I started on this
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kind of trajectory where I am now once I left home. That was when it was kind of like okay you need to make this work or
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you you you're just done. You're just in your uncle's box room forever sort of thing. So if it weren't for my mom, I wouldn't have bought that whiteboard.
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Yeah. What a pivotal moment. What about your dad? I I heard that story about watching the World Cup. And that was
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Yeah. My my dad's quality. My dad is quality cuz he's been through a lot of stuff in his life. So I don't know if
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you know, but my dad went to prison for manslaughter when he was young. Very young. Um yeah. Got in got in a fight
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with um with with some some bloke outside a pub. Got in a in a in a dispute and uh hit him and the guy fell
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and and passed away. And that plagues my dad now because they're just two kids fighting in a in a in a pub car park.
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Like so he went to prison. He came out and he's just he's just a grarafter. Like that pains him inside. He has to
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live every day with that. Obviously it's not right what he did but um I'm never I'm never going to say that. But he's brought me up with a lot of morals and
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it's taught me if you ever get in any fights like you run away. Like you don't need to be the big man like like he was.
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And he's always had my back from day one and he's he's like my best mate. So, for example, like when I first got my my
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first YouTube check through, I think it was like $60 was like the threshold that you had to get back in the day.
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And I think I got paid so that £45 quid or something. And um I'm from a I'm from a council estate.
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Never had any money. And I got that £45. And instead of giving my mom any money, I just went to Top Man, bought some
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t-shirts. Like you remember them old sort of t-shirts with the color? Yes. With the little buttons down here. Oh my god. I wanted every color. Like
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the collar was different color to the top. Yeah. And the buttons were different colors. Yeah. And I and I got a couple of those and um I was I was in my room
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and I remember my mom coming in and having a go and being like, "Oh, you should give me like half of that or
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whatever." And then she went, "And you've just wasted it on [ __ ] t-shirts." And I had done that. That is literally what I'd bought. But my dad I
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remember my dad coming in and going, "He needs those t-shirts cuz he can't be wearing the same stuff in all of his videos."
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And it was like he didn't know if that was why I was buying them or not. But like he he'd literally just made up a reason to to apply it to my YouTube
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channel and justified why I was like why did I have to justify at that age why I'm buying t-shirts? But my dad just
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knew from the off. I I guess none of us really knew the potential in YouTube back in the day. We were all just sort of testing the waters and just having
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fun. But I feel like my dad kind of had an idea that I he he trusted that I saw something in it even if he didn't. So I owe him a lot in that respect. So now when I see him, if I've been doing good
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in my life, bad in my life, if I've Yeah, I'll tell him everything and he'll just give me the best advice ever. And
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yeah, it's just I'm glad I had him because he was very much the the counterwe. I really vividly remember the moment when my dad called me to the kitchen table and basically said, "I don't love
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I don't love your mother." Right. Like I can almost remember what I was wearing. And I remember from reading
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about your story that there was a moment where your dad basically said, "I'm going to leave after this football match." Yeah. Yeah. head during the World Cup
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final, 2006 I think it was when Italy won on penalties and Saddam did that head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Um Yeah. So my mom would always kick him out. Yeah. She'd always just when she'd had enough, kick him out. And it was
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very much a case of I think my dad loved my mom more than my mom loved my dad. And my dad was I think he'd admit he was
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like the the kind of like lap dog that would come running back. My mom would kick him out and he'd come back and it'd be k I'd see it I'd see it as a kid like
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them having an argument. he'd be kicked out so unfairly like and I would just I wouldn't be able to work it out. But I kind of understood it because I was on
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the receiving end of that kind of judgment and and stuff sometimes. So I remember he would she'd always kick him out and he'd go around his friends and I'd go and visit him at his friends and again he had a little box room as well
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and he hated it and he was a proper grafter working all the hours under the sun. So one day he just went, "She's
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going to kick me out again and I'm and I'm just gone and then and I'm just going to go and he and luckily like he
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didn't travel to the other side of the world. He just went to a town 30 30 minutes up the road." But yeah, we was watching a football game, World Cup, and
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I thought I better enjoy this cuz it's going to be different after this. And I think it was a bit different after that
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cuz I think if if home life was ever bad, he was always the one that I'd be able to chat
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to about it and that. And then after after that, it's a good job. thought it was a good football game. Otherwise, that would have been [ __ ] wouldn't it?
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Was there um was there a point you got to where you kind of wanted your parents to separate for because I I fought it
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for a long time and I was like I remember crying my eyes out as a kid at the prospect of my parents separating and then I remember I think maybe
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getting to like 14 or 15 where I was like I'd actually prefer you guys to not live in the same place. Yeah, I think that's accurate to me.
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Yeah. I I I don't know. I'm just looking back and seeing it differently. But I don't think I gave a [ __ ] really when it happened. I think it I'd all I'd always see them break up and get back together
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and break up and get back together. And I think like I'd see my dad like stay up all night writing my mom love notes and stuff and
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she'd wake up and not not be asked get get rid of him. And I'd see that side of it. As a kid, I don't think that should
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have been a side that I I did see necessarily. Um the the rejection from from her for someone that she's supposed
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to love. So when he when he was gone, I was kind of like, "Yeah, go fly." Yeah. Yeah. And then he met his his new
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partner who's lovely. And then ever since then, that's been a little haven as well, just going around there and just venting and stuff. So
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did you ever figure out why why she was the way she is? Did you ever try and figure it out? Was it like a generational thing that was her parents
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or something or something had happened to her? I don't know. Because her mom, my nan, is the loveliest woman in the world. So
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I see my nan all the time. I've got her tattooed on me there. Um, so I don't know where it came from. I
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just think she's she just has or she had she might be completely different now, but she definitely just had issues. And
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I don't know whether that's drink, drugs, whatever that may be. Um, maybe I haven't given her enough time to
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actually think about why she's like that really. I don't know. And she's never had help or anything like that.
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Not that not as far as I know. No, not as far as I know. But my life has been richer and mentally I've been a lot
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healthier with without her in my life, which sounds horrible. Um, but that's the that's the truth of it. Maybe one
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day we'll be able to sit down and talk it all talk it all through, but not not today and probably not tomorrow.
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What about school? You in school? What were you like? Uh, just a little I was quite short actually. Little ginger um [ __ ]
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really. I was all right. I was all right. Yeah. I just I would just show off to the cool kids. I'd want to be I'd want
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to be accepted a lot. So I'd show off to the cool kids and I remember I used to always like say what I think were funny
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little oneliners and not get a laugh. And then once I put a ruler in a fan and it went and I got the biggest laugh ever
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and I thought what is this like what what am I doing? So I just became a bit of an idiot in the last few years and
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was just trying to make the the cool kids laugh. So there there is a lot lot of regret for how I was at school as
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well cuz I wasn't a bully. I'd never say I was a bully but I was a bit of a prick to teachers as well. And there was one
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teacher in particular, I just go in her class and I just wouldn't be asked and I would just never listen and she'd try. I
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wonder if in a in a weird way like she'll stumble across this video and uh Miss Chapman was her name, English
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teacher, and I'd love to reconnect with her and just apologize cuz I I mean or we all were, but that was no
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justification for me individually, but I was just a bit of a prick. I would never listen. And I guess being ginger and
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every everyone's got things that people like get picked on for as a kid, but you you try and you try and fit in. So I I I
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tried to fit in by being the the class clown, the funny one. And that's such a cliche. And I hate when people say they
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were the class clown cuz what that translates to is you were just a bit of a [ __ ] And that's but that's what I
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was. So yeah, Miss Chapman, if you're if you're watching this, I apologize. You were great.
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I hope she is. I hope she is. Was it just because you were ginger though and you were being picked on a little bit that you were
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trying to like find a way for them to appreciate you? Was that you think that was it? Yeah, I discovered bleach. Bleached my
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hair and I relaxed mine so it was straight. No, I'm just I'm just cool with this short afro thing, right? Yeah. Well, yeah. I Yeah, I
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discovered bleach and then I remember just going to school the next day like that scene in Bruce Almighty where I'm like birds are flying on me
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and I was Yeah, I was a different person then. Um Yeah. And then and then but then I was predicted all the top grades
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like I was predicted like 12 GCSEs or whatever it was like top marks in everything and I just completely [ __ ]
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it really and got like five just scraped it. So um yeah I was a bit a bit bit of
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an idiot really. I only sort of took life serious after school when Thank god I found YouTube because God knows what
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I'd be doing if I didn't. Was was there a connection in your view when you look back between your home life and your school life? I think cuz
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you said was it year 10 or 11? can't remember that things kind of went downhill for you. I wondered if there was there there was a link at what with
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in your mind of what was going on at home and what you know your school performance decline. Um I I maybe maybe I could I could sort
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of blame home life, but I I I I probably wouldn't. I'd probably just say it was more a case of wanting to fit in,
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discovering at an early age I wanted to be the funny one. I've always been the center of attention as well or wanted to be the center of attention I should say.
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So, as soon as I discovered, oh, self-deprecating works and putting myself down works, that gets a laugh.
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I'll do that. And then you're invincible then because if people are calling you a ginger [ __ ] if you call yourself a
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ginger [ __ ] before them, disarming. Yeah. Now I've got the cards. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think the home life the home my home life affected school probably the early years in in high
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school because like not to go into too much detail but like things would happen at home and I'd have like a mark on my
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face like from someone that shouldn't have given me that mark and I'd go to school and say the cat done it and I didn't have a cat. So so it's like that
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really I think that really affected me. There's little things as well, like I remember like I had these ornaments,
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Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. I don't think I've even seen the film, but I love these ornaments and then I'd done
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something at home that was naughty or something. Stayed up too late or played the PlayStation too much. And then someone came in and threw the threw the
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shelf down and smashed those ornaments. And I remember as the shelf was on the floor, I remember think I was only a
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kid. I was probably like 10, right? And the shelf was on the floor. There's a big standing bookshelf. And I was I
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remember thinking, "Please, please don't say those ornaments are broke. I I love them for some reason." And I remember
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lifting it up and they were all broke. And that was the moment where I was kind of like, "I [ __ ] hate this shit." So, I remember going to school and having to
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deal with stuff like that. Um, but in the in the later years when I kind of had YouTube and found my feet a little
00:17:38
bit more and who I wanted to be, I found it a bit easier even if I was pissing the grades up the wall, so to speak. Do
00:17:44
you ever worry because I something I as I've gotten older I think as we get older sometimes the like some of the
00:17:51
earlier things we learned about love or relationships or how you treat people or how you respond or your temper they they
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can sometimes um surface and you cuz I'd have moments where I'd see parts of my parents and myself that I maybe didn't love. Have you ever got seen glimmers of that home life that you think in
00:18:09
yourself when you go [ __ ] I don't want to be that person? That's that's such an amazing question that is like that's so
00:18:16
that me me and my sister have discussed this as well because I have I have because I because I separated from my mom so to speak at quite quite an early age just after
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after school. I think I've lost all of her her traits that I had in me because they were such negatives to me. I really
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noticed them like her biggest negatives like stood out like a sore thumb. So I actively had to not take them on myself.
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Um whereas my sister, she had a she had quite a few of her her my mom's negative
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um traits and we've spoken about this now as adults and she's like, "Yeah, I have to actively like whenever I think
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like mom would think or do something mom would do, have to try and get rid of it." I have a lot of my I give my dad
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all the credit. I have so a lot of how I am is because of my dad, but I also have my dad's negative traits as well, which
00:19:04
I think he would say. And and my dad not so much now, but especially after what I told you about his upbringing and he
00:19:09
anger was his thing. So, and I have I have that not luckily I have it under control. It's never going to affect anyone else or hurt anyone else. But like for example, if I'm editing and the
00:19:20
software shuts down, I'm like, "Fuck." Like I'm re like instantly I'm so angry inside. And Fiona will have to be like,
00:19:27
"Jack, just chill the [ __ ] out. Like this isn't that deep." And then I'm like, "Okay, as long as I remember where
00:19:32
I got this from and what if I can pinpoint it on something, I'm a lot I'm a lot better." Um, luckily that's never
00:19:39
got me in into any trouble. If I'm out and someone says anything to me, I I don't get that. I get it through over
00:19:46
trivial sort of like trivial things. But yeah, um I definitely do have have some negative uh traits about me from my parents. Have you ever gone to like therapy or spoken to anybody to try and understand
00:19:57
these patterns or to spot them or anything? Or is it just from like self-reflection that you've noticed?
00:20:02
Um I did I did anger management classes at school. Oh, really? Yeah. Um, but for they put me in them
00:20:09
for something I didn't do. I remember walking in the library once and I was at the bottom of these stairs and this guy
00:20:15
just gets thrown down the stairs at my feet and the teachers come in and seen it and I'd have to do 12 weeks hanging.
00:20:21
I swear to I I promise you I'd done a lot of like mad [ __ ] at school, but that was not one of them. I didn't know how I
00:20:28
could throw him and then be down there before him. He was on my feet, so it didn't make sense. Um, so yeah, I
00:20:33
remember doing 12 or six weeks anger management. Um, but I kind of needed them. So even though I didn't actually throw down, I probably would have been
00:20:40
the guy to maybe do that one day had I not had them. I can't remember anything we spoke about in those lessons, but
00:20:46
yeah, that's the only time I've really debated it. Does it does it does it not ever crop up in in your professional work like anger
00:20:53
issues with uh like colleagues or with I don't know with people? No, I think I think I've over the years I've mellowed out so much. I've I think I've matured so much as well and I think that shines
00:21:08
through in like my old kind of like main channel content because I made a name for myself on YouTube by being kind of
00:21:14
like the anti- YouTuber and like slagging off other YouTubers and but I I remember turning on the camera and
00:21:19
putting on such a fake anger because I was talking about things I didn't care about. Oh, Ollie White's got some new 30
00:21:25
pound t-shirts. Let's moan about that. Mainly because I knew I'd get a million views from it. Not that I cared. So, I
00:21:30
got really good at turning the camera on and putting this kind of like faux like
00:21:36
anger like fake an like I guess because I was pretending to be angry all the time. I was very alert when I actually was
00:21:42
angry and I could keep that keep that under control. So, do you regret any of those videos as you've matured? You say you've mellowed
00:21:48
out and matured now and you even spot that you were doing them from like a not an authentic place, right? Do you regret
00:21:54
them? Uh, there's some I definitely do regret. Yeah, the the majority I'd say no. Um,
00:22:00
obviously we we we both know that I'm a big fan of Ricky Jes and he always one of his mantras is there needs to be a why in comedy. Why are you doing something? If you're targeting someone,
00:22:10
why are you doing it? Like um and a lot of my early main channel content. Like for anyone who doesn't know, like I made a video reacting to Zoella's advent calendar.
00:22:21
Everybody knows it's got like six million views, isn't it? Yeah. Crazy. It did. All right. That changed the game for me in terms of YouTube. I was I was
00:22:28
going to quit the the the upload before that. I was going to quit and then I upload that video and it changed the
00:22:33
game. But like when I look back on videos like that, I I have no regrets because it was funny. It the comedy
00:22:38
almost like it wrote itself. Like there was a reason why I was doing it. It was it was a sketch. That's all it was. But
00:22:44
there would be times when I fell into the trap of like, okay, people know Jack, mate, for being the guy to slag
00:22:53
stuff off and that's funny, whatever. And then I'd find a few things that naturally did piss me off and I could
00:22:59
draw humor from it. And then when the content dried up, it was kind of like, well, I've now got to go and look for
00:23:05
someone who's doing something wrong and become this kind of like sort of white knight of of the internet
00:23:11
sort of thing. And it was like it's never who I was. So I did I did my first ever video with Ricky Jes and and and
00:23:17
that was the biggest moment ever for me. And then I remember uploading the video and the interview was brilliant and the
00:23:24
top comment was, "This is good, Jack, but Ollie White's released some new t-shirts that you haven't spoken about."
00:23:29
And I thought, "Fuck me." So I've got now that's what you want from me is that. So then I'd go I'd then go out of
00:23:36
my way to go, okay, Zoella in the title, Bangs, Views, what is she up to? Oh, she's released a book. Now, that book,
00:23:42
there was nothing wrong with that book, but I'm trying I'm actively trying to pick flaws in it that I can dissect on
00:23:50
my channel. And it's like there that's kind of like the stuff I I I regret. I remember KSI and Joe Weller, they did
00:23:56
their when I was trying to be Edgy Boy, Edgy Boy Jackm, Mate, they did their first press conference for their fight
00:24:02
and that was in in Manchester, I think it was. And and and because I was the black sheep of YouTube, I would never get invited to
00:24:08
them. So therefore, by default, the jealousy would take over and I'd be like, "This is [ __ ] I want nothing to do with it. Where deep down I knew that
00:24:13
I wanted something to do with that that whole YouTube boxing scene at I'm a boxing fan. I'm a YouTube fan. So why would that not appeal to me? Um and they
00:24:21
did they did a press conference and JJ he um he said something about Joe Weller's medication which I don't agree with but in the context of a press conference you say anything you can to
00:24:31
get the upper hand. And I remember just turning on my camera straight away and was like KSI needs to be cancelled blah
00:24:36
blah blah cuz I knew it would bang views. But JJ's a hero of mine, as I'm sure he is to any YouTuber, any content
00:24:42
creator. Joe Weller, I was I I used to watch every single one of his videos. I I love Joe Weller. So, they're the ones
00:24:48
I regret when I wasn't be being authentic and not even really being funny, just actually trying to go in on
00:24:55
someone cuz I wanted that check at the end of the the ad revenue to be higher that month. When you were doing that, so when you JJ
00:25:02
JJ mentioned the medication thing, you hit record. Was it like I can make some money here or was it I can make some
00:25:08
money and get attention? Probably a bit of both. Yeah, because they go hand in hand, don't they?
00:25:14
Especially especially on YouTube. So, probably a bit of both. Um, it's mad that you're so self-aware about
00:25:20
this like and you're just like you're really good at diagnosing exactly why you did it from like a psychological incentive perspective. You're like, I wanted this or I did this. I wasn't true to myself. I did it. And it and that
00:25:33
suggests like you've done a lot of kind of reflecting and soulsearching and maturing in what is actually a very short space of time
00:25:38
because this was only this is not you know a lifetime. This is not a decade ago. That video was probably four and a half
00:25:44
five years ago. Yeah. Tops. Yeah. Yeah. It's cuz it was I I realized a couple of years ago it wasn't who I
00:25:50
wanted to be. I was probably I I I recently did a brand trip with Cal Freezy and and the burnt um the burnt
00:25:57
chip and I was speaking to them out one night and I'd never done a trip with another
00:26:02
YouTuber. I was always YouTubers are very clicky and they're all in their groups. Um and I was always on the
00:26:08
outside of that. I was always this boy from Norwich just have my normal mates and they surround themselves with YouTubers and I remember saying to them
00:26:13
one night. I think the main reason why I used to go for him is because I wanted to be him. I
00:26:20
I'm I'm one of the OGs. I really am. I've been doing YouTube probably around the this to the the same
00:26:27
month that JJ uploaded his first one. Like we would have been there at the start and Cal Freezy, Klex, all of these
00:26:33
lads, uh Mini Mina, and I and I probably I see them become a collective. And I was like, why am I not part of that? Like, and now I don't give a [ __ ] I'm so happy and content with where I'm at.
00:26:43
And I've built my podcast now. But but as a as a kid, as a even as an 18y old young man growing up seeing that feeling left out, it probably goes back to how I was at school as well. I thought, okay, if if
00:26:56
if you if you can't join them, slag them off, become the Darth Vader of YouTube,
00:27:02
so to speak. Um, yeah. And then in recent years, people started to discover that other people
00:27:07
that I really respected like Will and people on you. And then even though Will was my friend, like it still is my
00:27:13
friend, like he'd call me out publicly when I'd be slagging someone off and go, "Have a day off, mate." And I would be
00:27:18
so angry because because it was accurate and I'm like I'm sat there like so right and I'm no I'm not bothered, mate. Like
00:27:24
that kind of that kind of thing. So yeah. Yeah. I was speaking to Cal Freezy about that and yeah, I've got a lot I've got nothing but respect for for him. Wow. My girlfriend came upstairs yesterday
00:27:35
when I was having a shower and she said to me that she tried the Hu protein shake which lives on my fridge over there and she said it's amazing. Low
00:27:41
calories, you get your 20 odd grams of protein. You get your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's nutritionally
00:27:46
complete. In the protein space, there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something that is nice, especially when
00:27:52
consumed just with water and that is nutritionally complete and that has about 100 calories in total while also
00:27:59
giving you your 20 grams of protein. If you haven't tried the Hel Protein product, do give it a try. The salted
00:28:06
caramel one, if you put some ice cubes in it and you put it in a blender and you try it, is as good as pretty much
00:28:13
any milkshake on the market just mixed with water. It's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie
00:28:19
intake and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet. So, this is where Hu fits in my life. Thank you, Hu,
00:28:24
for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is the one my girlfriend likes. But for me,
00:28:30
salted caramel is the one. You not only did the whole YouTube thing, but you also provided this like online commentary almost constantly about how you were feeling about it. So, you were
00:28:42
one of the the sort of rare YouTubers that like in real time would say, "I've lost motivation for this. I'm going to try and find my motivation for this.
00:28:48
I've lost motivation for doing this kind of thing. I'm doing that." You know what I mean? And you were very open. So, even for me, I as I logged into Twitter, I
00:28:54
could kind of see where you were on this journey. Obviously, I've seen that change a lot with the whole podcast and the Spotify thing, which feels like you
00:29:00
really found something that you do find like really enjoyable, but with your main channel, I watch you go through these waves of
00:29:06
enjoyment and then seeing you say, "Right, I'm going to try and commit to it now and then that didn't really work." And then,
00:29:11
so tell me about that journey with YouTube and and what you learned about yourself from that.
00:29:16
Oh god, it's really good questions. It's got to be said like, "Wait till you come on my podcast. Your favorite sandwich."
00:29:23
I genuinely have watched it and and this is why I kept trying to you know messag you like come on my podcast because
00:29:28
that watching that journey taught me so many things and it really reconfirmed a lot about for me that I've been reading about in psychology about what keeps
00:29:35
people motivated and when they're not doing things that are in line with who they are or where they're doing it for a
00:29:40
check I remember reading this study which said if you love doing something and then they pay you to do the exact
00:29:46
same thing you lose your motivation. So the minute it goes from being a hobby I'm doing for the love of it to a hobby
00:29:54
that I love doing but now someone is paying me for, there's this weird thing that happens in the mind where people lose motivation
00:30:00
for the exact same thing. Go going off that and I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I found
00:30:06
this really interesting. I couldn't really work it out myself. I spent my whole YouTube kind of main
00:30:14
channel era like just saving up all my money. Just saving up all my money. Like the only thing I was I had the blinkers
00:30:20
on. I was like, "Buy a house, buy a house, buy a house, buy a house." And last May, I paid for my house and bought
00:30:27
it outright. And that was the last time bar one. That was the last time I uploaded.
00:30:34
Really? Yeah. It was like It's called a rival fallacy, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And Tyson Fury has had it about um when he beat Klitschko and became the heavyweight champion of the world. The
00:30:44
next day he was depressed. Israel had sat there yesterday and said the same thing. Really? He said, "The day after I won the UFC title, I went to my hotel
00:30:50
room. I was depressed." Yeah. I said it last night on stage at the palladium. I said, "A Olympians when they get the gold medal, they they report depressive
00:30:56
symptoms." Yeah. It was the most proud proudest I've ever been over anything. And paid
00:31:03
paid it off. And then me and my partner Fiona, we we moved in in September. And I just I remember just I was drunk one night and I remember just walking around my house when Fiona was asleep and I
00:31:15
just I just didn't care for the for where I was. Like it's a beautiful house and I'm
00:31:22
so lucky and it's everything I'd worked for but it was like what do I do now then? Like what do I where like what
00:31:30
I'll sit on my sofa or going go in my kitchen. Like I just know I I'm not any happier than when I was renting or
00:31:38
it was it was weird. So have you figured out why you felt that way? No, I know. I Nah, I don't know. I don't
00:31:46
know. It's it's because it's because the journey is way more fun than Amen. Yeah. than than than the arrival that it
00:31:53
it just it just is there. The the most fun I've ever had is probably the first time I got a viral video or the first time I got to present for this company or first time I got a brand deal. Do all
00:32:05
the stereotypical YouTuber things. The first time I felt like a YouTuber. They they're the best moments. And it's I'm
00:32:13
not I'm not complaining. I'm not sitting here and whining. And I'm so blessed and so lucky. And
00:32:19
yeah, it is a it is a tough one. It is a tough one. But like I did my my kind of like sound bite that I always sort of
00:32:26
say is I did YouTube for seven years without earning a penny. And then and then once the Zoella video
00:32:32
kicked off and the ad revenue went up and I earned money I would never I could never dream of earning that that was no
00:32:39
more fun than when I was doing it for for free. And it's funny because the the I guess the the liberating thing to know is that
00:32:46
everyone I've sat here with says the same thing. So it's not a you thing, it's a human thing. thing and so you go okay if it's a human thing what does
00:32:52
that mean and why is that one of the things because I was writing my show for the Padium I I encountered was that the
00:32:58
reason why we're here is because our ancestors struggled forward and their desire to keep striving is the reason they built these empires and overcame so
00:33:04
I say to the crowd I say is it conceivable that they left a message within our genetic code that says you too shall struggle forward and they've
00:33:12
kind of like predisposed us to like forward motion and also this other point like the our ancestors are ancestors
00:33:18
that had a a real sense of what really liked forward motion, struggle and purpose were the ones that survived and passed on their genes to us. So we've we've inherited this real desire to have
00:33:30
forward motion and a sense of purpose. And one of the things they say is causing the life expectancy to decline
00:33:36
in the western world is specifically they they they point at men and say there's a epidemic of purposelessness as
00:33:41
the world is starting to change and AI and things like this are I'm pointing at the little robot that's moving moving
00:33:48
around the room on its own are taking purpose from people and so people are now becoming more addicted and depressed
00:33:53
and they're for their suicide has become the single killer biggest killer of men under the age of 45 which has caused the
00:33:59
life expectancy to decline for two years in a row and it's because of they I think this epidemic of purpose listeners. So when you lose your sense
00:34:04
of purpose because you reach the the point you're aiming for that can be so disorientating and confusing as it was
00:34:10
for me at 25 when someone came along and said we'll buy a social chain off you for 50 million and I go home and I look
00:34:15
at the the mansion on Right Move and the Lamborghini on Auto Trader and I feel totally [ __ ] lost. I I completely I
00:34:22
completely agree. Like I I I wouldn't change it for the world. is everything I've I've always always wanted. But like
00:34:29
cuz cuz I I think I think money does money does buy happiness. And I think if people say otherwise, I think they're
00:34:35
talking [ __ ] Like in a way like Well, I Well, maybe I should rephrase that to to
00:34:42
money buys freedom. Yeah. And freedom is is is happiness. And that's what what I have now. I have can
00:34:48
do what I want when I want. The best feeling I I I get now as a 28-year-old, soon to be 29y old is when I sort my family out. And
00:35:00
like my granddaddy's still working. He's 20. He's 70 um 77 20. Imagine that. He wishes
00:35:06
he's 70 he's 77. He's a big fat lump from Norfolk and he still does building and demolition and walks on RS and stuff
00:35:12
and he's not got a penny. And then like I went to see his parents' grave with him in February um last year and uh he goes there every week, puts new flowers
00:35:23
on. He's been doing it for like 50 years. And it's like and I could see he was he was wearing these beat up boots
00:35:29
and this disgusting tattered jacket. And I just went home and I just got his bank
00:35:34
card without him knowing from his side of his car where his handbrake is. And I got his bank and I just transferred him £5,000. And for me, that was like that was just everything. That was like that
00:35:46
was uh everything I'd worked for was justified in that moment. And I got more out of that than I did when I bought my
00:35:52
house. And like just little things like my sister's type 1 diabetic, so she has like a thing in her arm that constantly
00:35:58
pricks her and finds her her levels. And I can I can pay for that [ __ ] And yeah, last night my dog died and the dog that
00:36:05
I'd had for 18 years. Um, and uh, lit literally like found out just before I went to sleep last night. And it's little things like this that might not seem like a lot, but it was the first
00:36:16
time I'd spoke to my mom in ages and she was like, "Oh yeah, we're going to get Diddy's ashes cost £200. There's the
00:36:21
£200." So, it's like that kind of [ __ ] is like why I owe everything to this online world and people that have given up their time to watch me and brands that have trusted me and stuff and yeah,
00:36:32
that's the best feeling. I think you nailed it when you said that. Um, sorry about your dog, by the I have a dog and I really that really I
00:36:38
can't imagine. It's [ __ ] Yeah, it's really [ __ ] Even the thought of it is just terrifying. She was 18 years and 4 months, which is
00:36:44
quite old, but when they get to that age, you just assume that they're always going to crack on. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Um, no, you I think you
00:36:51
nailed it when you said that freedom is the thing that ultimately does make you happier because I remember not having I
00:36:56
remember getting the bay of letters and then not being not knowing how I was going to eat or knowing that the the landlord was going to come and ask me
00:37:02
why I had paid the rent in four months and the pressure that of con that like weighing on me and the freedom of just like not looking at how much things cost
00:37:08
when you go into Top Man and want to buy one of those t-shirts and that kind of thing or you want to go somewhere. So freedom definitely makes
00:37:14
you happier. But obviously at this point I've come to realize that if you gave me more money, the the fundamental
00:37:20
happiness levers of my life won't change. Like you're right, like my sister's been a little bit sick recently. She she um
00:37:27
um and being able to help her. I said to my team this week, I was like that's the moment where I see the point of this
00:37:33
just being able to like pay the hospital or like get a check, get a get a proper healthcare, those kind of things. um my
00:37:39
parents got broken into and being able to buy them like new locks for their doors so that they wouldn't get broken into again is is one of those things
00:37:46
where you go that's what this is for. That's what that's that was the feeling. Yeah. It it makes it all worthwhile, doesn't it?
00:37:51
Completely. Do you do you ever feel again namerop but I spoke to J about this cuz I was really I was really something that plagues me whether it's right or wrong is I feel guilty about
00:38:04
having money. I feel I feel this sense of guilt where it's like and I don't have cra I don't have crazy money. Like my situation is I paid off my house. I have a bit more in the bank. Like that's
00:38:15
what it is. But I because because of my upbringing and where I'm from and I see my dad wake up at 5:00 a.m. every
00:38:21
morning, go work in a factory for 12 hours and then still struggle to buy Christmas presents. And then I'm like
00:38:27
you just said, I go online. I don't look at the price of things anymore. And I just buy it and then it's like what?
00:38:32
Like this doesn't make sense. I'll tell you a quick story. Three, four years ago, my dad's dad, my granddad, he
00:38:39
passed away. He he got um bone cancer or some kind of [ __ ] cancer. They're all
00:38:45
[ __ ] I guess. And um he I went to his funeral, went to the wake, had a few jars, went back home, went on a night out, and I was in the place called the
00:38:57
waterfront in Norwich, which is where I always I always go. Uh, I go there because I'm comfortable because everyone knows me there now. So I don't get the [ __ ] come over and whatever. But so
00:39:07
they if if Jackmates's in there, they've already seen Jackmate hundred times, so it doesn't matter. And this guy came and I was I was gone and I was not in a good
00:39:14
place. And this guy came up to me and said I'd never met him before. And he asked me how much I earn from YouTube.
00:39:19
And I think it's such a rude question, but I can understand the intrigue in it because it's a world that people just don't know. It's a new world.
00:39:25
I barely know it. And um he asked me and I just told him for the first time ever. I was like this is what I earn. I said
00:39:32
what about you? What do you earn? And he told me and it was like 10 10% of what I earn. And I said and what do you do? He
00:39:38
said I work in the cancer ward at the hospital. And I was just like and I weren't saying what do you do to be
00:39:43
rude. I was just throwing that back at him. And I remember just thinking it just hit me.
00:39:49
just got a lump in my throat and I thought, why why do I do I deserve this what I have
00:39:56
when there's these people that are like they're the [ __ ] angels. They're the ones walk walking around doing that.
00:40:02
Like I just Yeah, I struggled to then wrap my head around why a brand would pay me 30k to do a video. Like it
00:40:09
doesn't it to me it's weird. So I guess you could argue why don't you give it all to
00:40:15
charity? Well, no, I'm not going to do that. But I will give it all to my [ __ ] family and I will give it all to my [ __ ] kids.
00:40:21
And that's what makes me proud. Is there This is like a wider point about imposter syndrome. Is it?
00:40:27
I I I think so. Because um because I've never struggled with the idea that I didn't deserve what I'd created. And I think so I'm asking myself why you would really struggle with that. why you might
00:40:40
struggle with the thought that you're making money and other people are potentially having to
00:40:46
because I mean it's a reality of the world even if you go back to where I was born in Africa people in the fields for
00:40:52
18 hours a day picking tea leaves in the baking sun get paid nothing and in the western world some people can just play
00:40:59
around on their computer and make billions yeah from the from the stock market or the markets or something but for some reason
00:41:05
you struggle you struggle with this and other symptoms of impost syndrome from what I've read in
00:41:11
May maybe it's cuz I think I've spoke positively about YouTubers and my peers and stuff but
00:41:19
there's still a lot of them that are pricks like and and and and growing up and seeing like I used to go to YouTube events and see my YouTube heroes and they'd come over. How many subscribers you got? It's the first
00:41:30
thing I'd say. How many subscribers you got? My name's Jack. Nice to meet you, [ __ ] Right. So, so I guess I guess
00:41:37
maybe it's connecting that I'm now a YouTuber. I'm now I I now make my money in the same way that Alfie Days made made his money, Ollie White makes his money. I'm that guy. And because I've
00:41:47
seen a lot of YouTubers take it for granted and just assume that that's their right to have these things. It
00:41:54
that's maybe where I get my guilt from. I never want to lose lose touch of that. And and you really come from a working class
00:42:01
like household where you've watched your dad work really really hard and everyone around you it sounds like work really really hard wherever you've looked
00:42:07
and it's almost like you found a bit of a cheat code or you know Yeah. You might feel like life has given you I don't know
00:42:13
but you you earned it. I mean you bought the whiteboard. Yeah. Right. This was intentional.
00:42:18
Yeah. The whiteboard shows that you you know you planned it out. M obviously moments of luck for all of us
00:42:26
appear when we we start we carry on carrying on but you realize that you've earned it right
00:42:33
yeah you do you hesitated you don't do I I I do and but not to the level in which I've got to now not to like yeah I get I
00:42:47
I guess I guess I I I have I have I have a talent I can do I'm a personable person I
00:42:53
make people laugh. But yeah, I don't I don't know. I I don't I really don't know how to answer it. I get I've
00:42:59
thought about it a lot. I've racked my brains a lot about this. And what does your brain do to you when you rack your brain? Don't know. Just may may maybe I don't.
00:43:06
But then like it's it's it's cool things like this. Like Stevie White, my my podcast co-host was working in Boots. Nothing wrong with that. It's a respectable job. Um just a 9 to5. He
00:43:17
didn't particularly enjoy it. Um, so I call him up one day and say, "Let's do a podcast." A year later, he's
00:43:23
interviewing Ricky Jves, Johnny Knoxville, Rob Bride, and he's left his job. He's doing it full-time. Fiona, my
00:43:28
partner, she was working at a supermarket. I was telling her for years, "Bin it off. I'll teach you how to edit. You become my editor."
00:43:36
Couple of years go by, she bins it off, she's now working for me. There's a few examples of people in my life that can
00:43:41
now have an easier life because of the foundations that I put in seven years ago. That's that's what I love and that's when I'm
00:43:52
like I I I des I deserve this and the people around me deserve it. Does that make sense? Of course it does. Once again, you said that like the most fulfilling thing for you is helping others, right? You said
00:44:02
that about your family with your money and now also professionally it's like giving those people opportunities to
00:44:08
live a better life. Yeah. We're just a [ __ ] team. We're just a team. They help me as well. It's
00:44:13
not just me going, "Look, I can help you do this." I showed them that there's a there's a different world out there because people like us, we've been in
00:44:19
this world for so long. We see the opportunities, but they probably didn't. So, yeah, I wouldn't be able to do what I do without that that that kind of the
00:44:27
the team in the in the background or sometimes in the foreground with people like Stevie. But yeah, um that's a
00:44:33
[ __ ] cool feeling. everybody. Um, everybody, it sounds like it feels like everybody that's not a YouTuber, and I
00:44:40
say everybody because there's going to be people listening that are driving up and down the country right now as they're listening to this or, you know, doing the dishes, whatever, and
00:44:45
perfectly happy with whatever they're doing. But a lot of young people want to be YouTubers. And the thought that you had this like
00:44:50
big main channel with like, how many subs has your main channel got now? It's like 1.4 or something.
00:44:56
1.4 mill. Yeah. Yeah. um that that you would like lose motivation to do it is quite a difficult
00:45:03
concept to understand for a lot of people. You have 1.4 million people that have subscribed to get videos from you
00:45:08
and you're like can't be asked. Yeah. It's not so much can't be asked. It's just it's not me. It's just it's
00:45:14
just not me anymore. It's people I'd open up my inbox and people would be emailing me about some YouTuber from
00:45:20
France who has sold a pen for a bit too much money and I need to be the guy that
00:45:26
calls them out. And it was just like I was never I was never really this guy. So yeah, I I guess I guess I just
00:45:33
transferred all that energy that I was putting into the main channel into the podcast. And that's where my passion is now and doing stuff like this, getting
00:45:39
to sit here and chat to you and yeah, that's I I get what you mean. Like if you'd have asked me two years ago,
00:45:45
oh, am I just going to leave a channel with 1.4 million subscribers stagnant? I would I'd call you all the names under the
00:45:51
sun. I'd be like, you're you're an idiot. Of course I'm not going to do that. But it seems that I have done it. I'll use it every now and then. Like in
00:45:56
January, I uploaded a video about Boris Johnson. I saw a dope video all over the newspapers. Really, really cool video.
00:46:02
Like creatively, culturally relevant. It really like hit and it was fast. You were very quick to act on that moment.
00:46:09
So, it was uh that I guess I guess for you probably is that how you you're seeing the use of your YouTube main channel now? Like when
00:46:15
you genuinely feel you want to do something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When like when the the why
00:46:20
is there when there's a clear and obvious why, I'll I'll I'll do it. Um, and not just for a quick buck. Now I'm very thankful I don't need to do them anymore.
00:46:31
It's hard to sustain something when it's not in line with who you truly are. It's hard to like sustain it for a long period of time. In the short term, you
00:46:37
could probably do it, but it tends to be the case when I say it with people that at any point in their lives where they were living outside of themselves, like
00:46:43
living someone else's life or kind of like Fern Cotton said it like she had to like go on radio and be this happy d and
00:46:51
um almost play a character. And Jake Humphrey said it to me as well like because he was a presenter having to kind of like
00:46:57
put on the mask eventually it becomes a really heavy mask to to wear and they all eventually it seems kind of choose
00:47:04
to throw it away and just rebound and that seems similar to what you're saying 100%. Yeah. I I
00:47:10
I told this story last night to someone. I can't remember. I I used to turn the camera on and I used to go I'd be sat there and I'd turn the camera on. I'd go
00:47:20
right guys. Hello. It's me Jack mate. Oh, Zoella. Oh, what a [ __ ] Oh, she's done this, done that. Turn the
00:47:26
camera off. Just sit there and I couldn't tell you anything I just said in the last 20 minutes. I'm just looking
00:47:31
down at my script. She said this in her book about how out of touch is it? And it would just be like, "Right, that's
00:47:38
the ad revenue sorted for the month fee. Let's go to Weather Spoons." Yeah. So, it was like you can you can only do that for so long before you just hate yourself. There is an element of
00:47:50
that in me like that that that the advent calendar video. I've done some videos I'm really proud of. Funny videos
00:47:56
when when it was when it was justified, but there's also ones it's not so much. I've been doing recent sort of
00:48:02
commentary videos over the last two years. My my recent ones are like videos I've been doing with my friend Alfie Indra who's a m musician. We've been
00:48:08
like sort of taking kind of comical pokes at people like um Jeremy Lynch from the F2 and people like that. And
00:48:15
and I People think I'm Jeremy Lynch all the Oh, really? You do? You don't want to be You don't want to
00:48:21
be that guy. You can be Billy. Be the other one. He seems all right. But um but the thing with those videos, I'm
00:48:27
really proud of them still. And I guess you could argue, well, you're that same kind of like scathing um commentator.
00:48:33
Yeah, but they I I believe that those people I'm going for, they're justified. Zoella, not so much. Let her crack on.
00:48:42
You know what would you say to her if she was Have you ever met her? Never met her.
00:48:47
I don't think she wants to meet me. That'd be an awkward one, wouldn't it? Is there like is there any because that video did really well. Yeah. And I think if a video about me had
00:49:01
gotten 6 million views, um I think I'd have a pretty shitty month. I was going to say week, but I think it would last
00:49:07
longer cuz that video did really really well. I remember like sometimes someone will write like an article about me and I try and be this tough guy. I don't
00:49:13
give a [ __ ] Whatever. Whatever. But I'm still at the hard criticiz mentally. Yeah. Do you ever has that ever like crossed
00:49:27
your mind like ever? Yeah. I'm not saying what you did was wrong because I watched the video and I actually thought it was really funny. So it's like was there comedic merit in
00:49:38
someone that's super successful selling a advent calendar of that nature for that price? Yes, I understand it. Like when you talk about the why and the Jace like philosophy, I get it. But does has
00:49:50
that crossed your mind as well? Yeah. Yeah. Um that's just another reason why I stopped doing it. Um it's
00:49:58
hard to I'm not articulate enough to describe how I feel about it, but yeah, the the calendar video was funny. there
00:50:05
was a clear error on her behalf and I just ultimately I I wasn't really saying anything nasty about her. It was just
00:50:11
this product. Whereas when you do a follow-up video and a third video, where's the where's the line? Where do
00:50:18
you draw the line? Is it becoming bullying now? Like that's not who I want to be. I want to be a comedian. So So
00:50:24
that I definitely as I've gotten older and I guess maybe I was immature for a long time. I should have realized this at a way earlier age than I did, but you
00:50:33
do start to consider others. Um, and and I'm the same as you, mate. I'll read a comment about me on Twitter
00:50:39
and I will clap back and I still go back to them now and fees there going, "What are you doing?" And I'm like, "Fuck
00:50:44
him." Like I just like that's a bit of my dad as well, like and I'll just I'll I'll spend hours arguing with football
00:50:50
Twitter. Oh, the worst. Yeah. Yeah. They've all got like a football player as their display picture.
00:50:55
Yeah. Yeah. you call like Fantastic Four nails or something like that. He doesn't know who you are.
00:51:00
[ __ ] hell. Yeah, but I I I get a bit of a rush from it really. I I I I worry sometimes cuz I say to
00:51:08
myself I'm trying to reply to a troll to try and disprove their point or because it's fun or whatever. But I think
00:51:14
sometimes it's because it's like hit me in the ego. Yeah. And I don't want to admit to myself that that person's actually pissed me off.
00:51:21
Yeah. So, I kind of used the guys of no, it's funny or like no, like to to justify it
00:51:26
to everyone. I was like, I'm not bothered, but you know, I mean, like I really I really, you know, the
00:51:31
internet is not a good place to be if you haven't got control over that cuz you'll get dragged around by trolls with egg emoji accounts like
00:51:38
Yeah. Yeah. I I like I said, Fee is always telling me not don't [ __ ] I'll be in
00:51:44
bed like that hung over or whatever Sunday morning going on and Fee will be like, "Just leave it. They're [ __ ]
00:51:50
idiots." And ultimately, I know they're probably just jealous of whatever it is. Like I'll get like a good podcast guest
00:51:56
on. And like the other day I I was in um I was in Wales with Goen Price. He's the
00:52:01
number one dance player in the world. And um put a picture up of me and him. Just put uh in beautiful Wales throwing
00:52:08
a few arrows with Goen Price. And Goen Price is this panto villain. I don't know how much you know about darts, but he's like the panto villain of
00:52:14
the Welsh one. Yeah. That that when he wins always like then he bum it goes like this. Big biceps.
00:52:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and and and so he's I'd heard for a while that he's he's always he's very lovely off camera
00:52:26
but or off the stage but when he's up there he's a panto villain. I was like that's pretty much like the jack mate of dance in a way. So I put up this picture
00:52:32
of him. I was like never judge a book by its cover. Like I know this more than I I know this myself cuz I always did just
00:52:38
just this guy replied to bell ends as well. But he follows me just follows me. So it was like I I will reply to him and F's like why are you bothered? Like that must just be jealousy. like why else are
00:52:50
you well you follow me and you're and you're doing that like it doesn't make sense but I I kind of like I like to
00:52:56
think that I'm very very honest online so why would I not reply why would I not try and think of some piffy remark to try and put him down like yeah because
00:53:09
I'm meant to be a professional and I'm in this world and I'm working for West Ham but really I also think you're a bit
00:53:14
of a [ __ ] mate and I'll tell you do you think that because you are very like um I imagine if like Boris Johnson
00:53:22
and like I don't know another politician uploaded a photo you'd probably quote retweet it and say two bellons. So like
00:53:28
do you think there's a chance cuz I I don't think anyone would ever tweet me that like if I do you think there's a because
00:53:34
you've cultivated a younger male audience that are comedic and they're like they use kind of kind of
00:53:40
colloquialistic funny language like bell ends. Yeah. you you're also now at the mercy
00:53:47
of them attacking you with the same language in that situation. I'm just wondering why no one would ever tweet me
00:53:52
if I uploaded a photo go two bell ends. I just my audience just don't speak like that episode.
00:53:58
The top comment is two bell ends. Yeah. You see what I mean? Like and then you're having to deal with that because
00:54:05
I get what you mean. Yeah. But then maybe they see a bit of cuz cuz I Yeah. They think you maybe like that as
00:54:10
well. They think, "Oh, Jack, you know, cuz he follows you and, you know, he clearly looks up to you if he he's following you and
00:54:15
stuff." It's true. It's true. It becomes more real when you like when like someone some there'll be
00:54:21
people out there that will defend me on that thread and they'll say, "You don't know him." And he'll go, "Well, he looks like a prick. Look at his trousers." And
00:54:26
then it's like personal. Yeah. It goes a bit goes a bit deeper then. But like you are right because I I
00:54:32
would always do um an event called Summer in the City. It was the only time I'd ever I'd ever get out of like
00:54:38
Norwich and go and meet the fans and they'd put you in a pen and there'd be all these YouTubers in this big hall at
00:54:43
like XL and you'd be in a pen and then fans would come up one by one and I' I'd meet like 13year-old girls. You might want to believe this. I don't know. But they'd come up to me and go, "All right,
00:54:55
you cunt." And I'd be like, "What have you just said?" And then but then because that's what I'm doing online.
00:55:02
All right, you [ __ ] [ __ ] But they're there to meet me and they want their thing signed. So they like me, but
00:55:08
they think like But then but then I wouldn't go up to like I wouldn't go up to Declan Rice and start doing keep up
00:55:15
around the world. All right, Deus. Oh my god. So then you just I just have to be like, "Yeah, maybe I am a influencer." [ __ ]
00:55:24
Scary scary notion. No one's ever said that to me in a meet and greet. Um that's so it's really
00:55:30
interesting. And do you there's an element of your do you think there's an element of your childhood in that in in the sense of like being triggered a
00:55:37
little bit by what people are saying or the criticisms that you know triggers you maybe
00:55:43
because I I def I'm thinking about myself. I definitely wouldn't sit in bed replying especially now I'm on the BBC
00:55:49
like BBC one is a bit prestigious in it. I can't really be popping off too much. Yeah. Well yeah probably I probably shouldn't
00:55:57
be either. Do you do do you want to be the type of person that doesn't? Yeah, but I can't, Steve. I can't like I
00:56:04
I'll reply to them and then and then Fee will be like, "Delete them." And then I and then I'll be like, "No, not going
00:56:11
to." And then in an hour it's like it's like a comedown. I'm like, "All right, now I'll delete them." And then and then
00:56:17
in an hour later someone else has said something. What do you mean? I'm so mature on Twitter. It's on It's a joke.
00:56:23
There's a real risk there of being like pulled around emotionally though by the external world, right? Yeah, I've deleted I've I've deleted Twitter off my
00:56:30
phone a few times. Um yeah, we went I went out for a dinner with Max Foch and um I told him about he was he questioned
00:56:37
it. He was like, "Why do you always go back at these idiots?" I'm like, "I just find it funny or they just get to me and I deleted Twitter off my phone." And he
00:56:44
was like I said, "I'm going to do it for the whole weekend." And he was like, "I guarantee that you'll you'll redownload that by the end of the meal." And I had
00:56:51
did and I was scrolling there looking through it. So when football Twitter say we're in your edge, mate. Nine times out
00:56:57
of 10 you are in my head. But I'll try and get back in yours. Do you not think it would be a happier
00:57:03
life just to [ __ ] like 100%. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess I get bored. Is it that ego?
00:57:16
Yeah. Quick one. As many of you know, I've been trying to make my life a little bit more sustainable as it relates to energy ever since I sold my
00:57:23
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00:58:12
recommend you check out the Eddie. It's um it's a real game changer for a product and one that I'm going to be installing in my home soon. happy hour.
00:58:19
So, this was a really pivotal moment for you. Where where did that start? Why did you decide to start doing long long form podcasts instead of the the other types
00:58:25
of videos you were making before? I've I've always wanted to interview people. At college 10 years ago, I I
00:58:31
studied interview techniques. My granddad was the first person I interviewed. He came in and I interviewed him about the war and all
00:58:37
that kind of stuff. And I always wanted to do it. And then in 2017, I had a podcast with my friend Tom Norris. Um
00:58:45
done done all right. Uh but it was just too too too much. Um we were doing it at
00:58:50
the YouTube space and we'd rock up sometimes and they didn't have the cameras in and that. So it fell by the wayside. But then uh 2018 I wanted to do
00:58:57
another podcast. I said to Fee said, "Who should I do it with?" Cuz I always knew I wanted to do it with your every
00:59:04
man. So not a YouTuber cuz that's not I'm not a YouTuber that's been friends with YouTubers. I'm a YouTuber that's
00:59:09
friends with my mates in Norwich. I'll do the best video ever with the big celebrity. Come back to Norwich and I'll
00:59:14
just go, "Yeah, we didn't watch it, mate. Not bothered." And I'll just be in the pub and that will be everything I need to keep me grounded. So I So she
00:59:22
she suggested Stevie White who's um just a just a mate that lived in Bristol and
00:59:28
uh I called him up and said, "Do you want to do a podcast?" And he said, "Why?" So good point.
00:59:34
Good good point. And then and we ended up giving it a go. I started doing it with a guy called I'm Alex who's a who's
00:59:39
a YouTuber that was very um a com he was a commentary YouTuber. So he was calling out people. He would do the cookie cutter templates of like X Y and Zed needs to be cancelled. X Y and Z
00:59:50
needs to be and he was doing that all the time. So originally my show was a YouTube drama show to call people out to
00:59:56
be an extension of what I was doing on the main channel. And then after about five or six episodes I thought this is just poisonous and I don't it's not me.
01:00:04
Why am I trying to do it in a different format? So, we dropped that and started getting guests on and interviewing people and I found the love of YouTube
01:00:11
again, which I' which I'd lost for a few years. Was there like a pivotal moment in Happy
01:00:17
Hour where you thought, "Fuck, this is going to be Was it It wasn't the Spotify. It must have come sooner than that, right?" Where you thought, "This
01:00:22
is we've got something here." Yeah. Um, again, it was probably getting Jes on. Oh, god. I remember that day. He he was in our first like three guests. Nice. And and I'm so grateful that he
01:00:34
gave me a chance years ago because I would I genuinely believe I would have none of this if it wasn't for him giving
01:00:40
me a shot and I built up a connection with him years ago. So he then when I needed someone big to come on the
01:00:45
podcast, he would step in and you know what it's like you get one through the door. Other people almost then don't
01:00:50
judge the show based on me. They'll judge it based on who who else is sat in that seat. Yeah.
01:00:56
So so I owe I owe a lot to him. So that was probably a defining moment and testament to Stevie as well because I've
01:01:03
been doing this for 10 12 years. I've been around people like J. I've been very lucky, very fortunate. And I
01:01:09
remember how nervous I was the first time I sat on the sofa with him. The first time I filmed with him was the
01:01:14
most nervous I've ever been for anything in my life. And then Stevie White has come literally seemingly out of boots
01:01:21
the day before. And then he sat there with Ricky and he's just just gets it. He's just on and he's just the glue. And
01:01:27
I was like, I've chosen the right person here like to do this this journey with. And then the money side of things. So
01:01:33
eventually you you get approached by Spotify and they they offer you um a contract or
01:01:38
a deal exclusive deal to do. And I remember watching your video announcing that and you were very very honest.
01:01:45
No, like I think that's probably why people like you so much because you're I can trust you because you're going to
01:01:51
tell me the way you go. Listen, we're, you know, the money is a [ __ ] very important thing here and you're being very um overt about that, which I think
01:01:58
is admirable because again, it builds trust. People don't have to like what you're saying, but they're going to trust you. They're going to trust you to always be honest with them. So, um, what
01:02:05
was your thinking around the Spotify deal? Because, you know, I don't know, someday Spotify might approach me and ask me if I want to um
01:02:12
if I want to go Spotify exclusive and maybe you can give me some advice on that. Um,
01:02:18
the reason I did it was purely financial. I thought it was going to be a bad idea and I took some my network who I'm
01:02:29
signed to, they wanted it to happen because obviously they've got a slice of the pie. Did they Did they orchestrate the deal
01:02:34
or did Spotify go to them and then to you? Yeah. Okay. And um originally I saw it
01:02:41
as okay, I'm taking off the full visual episodes on YouTube and just putting them on an audio-based platform, whereas
01:02:47
a lot of my audience might be the younger kids and people like me and you, we probably consume a lot of just audio
01:02:52
when we're on the go and in the car and that. Whereas I think younger generations, and I'm basing this on nothing. You probably know better than I do, but I imagine younger kids probably
01:02:59
like they're more visual. They like to watch the So I thought taking it off is is is probably going to get a lot of
01:03:05
backlash. And then Spotify told me how much it would be per year and the potential for
01:03:11
how many years. And I thought, well, that doesn't just change my life, that changed my children's life who don't even exist. So, I literally did it cuz I
01:03:17
was financially driven. Um, and I I've got no qualms saying that or admitting that. But what I'll also say is I now
01:03:26
I'm starting to see the benefits a year in of going with Spotify. And they're not they've not got a gun to my head. I
01:03:32
can be as honest as I want about it. If I thought it was [ __ ] I wouldn't have then signed on for the second year. But they are now pulling out guests for us
01:03:38
um that I would have never been able to pull on my own. Up until like two months ago, I'd booked every single one of my
01:03:44
guests personally on Twitter DMs or Instagram or whatever. Last few months they've booked us. Johnny Knoxville as
01:03:51
part of his jackass um Press Junkets. Um Rob Bryen, Russell Howard, um we've got talks of some big the biggest movie
01:04:02
stars in the world because of Spotify. So, as somebody who has always wanted to sit down with the most interesting
01:04:08
people in the world and pick their brains, they've offer they've allowed me that. So, uh, and they've also said that I can get
01:04:14
the full video on Spotify if I want. And the only reason I'm not doing that is for a few things behind the scenes that
01:04:19
I need to, well, I can say it, can't I? It's cuz I'm earning money on the YouTube clips. So, it's like,
01:04:25
you need to give me a little bit more to take to take that off. So, needs to be worth your while. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:30
I've actually had a conversation with Spotify about that as well, about that video thing. And I was I was considering it. Spotify have said um to me, do I
01:04:36
want to move the video to Spotify as well, right? And again, me and Jack were trying to weigh up what that means. Does that
01:04:44
because we're not going to get paid for that on Spotify, but would our would that does that mean we'd lose YouTube viewers if we moved it there?
01:04:50
Would people and we kind of concluded that we wouldn't because we think that as you've said, they're kind of very different types of people. The YouTube
01:04:56
watcher is not the necessarily the Spotify, right? People seem to be in their habits. the like cycles of how they consume content.
01:05:03
I don't know. Don't know. We've been debating that. But yeah, but then I don't know because if I'm listening to one of your reps, I'll put I'll put Yeah, I'll put the YouTube version on
01:05:15
even if I'm not watching it. Same. Yeah. Same. Yeah. But then if it was if it was on
01:05:21
Spotify, would I then go to Spotify for that? Like I I don't I don't know. I I honestly do not know. I like I like the
01:05:28
arrangement I have now where people can watch the little clips on YouTube and listen to the full ones on on Spotify.
01:05:33
It's like advertising as well, isn't it? Because that can go like viral on YouTube and then that brings people over to watch the full thing potentially.
01:05:39
Yeah, for sure. Which makes a lot of sense. What's your big vision as it relates to like the next 5 10 years for Happy Hour.
01:05:45
Um we I want to do a live show. Oh, really? Yeah. We've been contacted a few times about doing a live show, but it just has
01:05:50
to be right. We we actually did like a like a pilot one in London somewhere a few years ago, but it was the old show
01:05:56
with Alex and the Yeah. Um so so so I Yeah, I want to tour it. Um I want to have a more official chat show. I don't know what that means cuz I
01:06:09
have a chat show, but is that on television? I don't know. Is it I don't know. I want a better studio. I just
01:06:15
want to keep I'm really [ __ ] happy, mate. So, I just want to keep doing what I'm doing and and just make it bigger
01:06:21
and better and just see what happens. I Thursdays, which is today a day of recording, like
01:06:27
are my best days of the week. Like, I used to live for the weekend to get pissed and go out with my friends. Now,
01:06:32
I live for Thursdays cuz I love like after this we've got go price on mine and then you're coming on mine as well.
01:06:38
And like I'm so excited for both conversations. Like that's so I just want to keep doing it. I It's the most
01:06:44
impossible question when people ask me where do you want to be in 5 years? I I want to be I want to be here. Yeah.
01:06:49
One of the things that um you've also been really open about especially in 2019 I saw you talking a lot about this
01:06:54
was that was a really tough year for you, right? And you talked a lot about your sort of mental health battles and just not
01:06:59
feeling so good. Yeah. I I struggle with um health anxiety and OCD and I remember that was
01:07:05
a time when I was I was really really low. Um, and again, I think I've touched on it a few times, but probably going out a bit too much and doing stuff I shouldn't have been doing. And and that
01:07:16
that it goes hand in hand, isn't it? You feel [ __ ] because the OCD is consuming you. So, you go out to get pissed up, to
01:07:22
have a break, but then the next day it's anxiety or whatever they call it now, is
01:07:28
um twice as bad. So, yeah, 2019, I think, was really when that started to get really bad. And I still have it now.
01:07:35
um it's never going to go away, but it's a really weird really weird thing to to
01:07:40
deal with. Health anxiety. Yeah. So, when I was when I was y 13, I found a lump downstairs and um like I I found that like with
01:07:53
with certain words like testicles, balls, stuff like I struggle to say them. I physically struggle to say them. when I'm talking to to Fiona, I'll say the T word or whatever. And because I I
01:08:05
remember I was up all night worried that I had the C that I I were panicked and I
01:08:12
was so [ __ ] nervous. I remember going to the doctor and he had to check it out and said, "Oh, it's fine. It's just a
01:08:18
cyst. It will go away." And it never went away. And I still have it now, but the health anxiety, this is how mad it
01:08:24
is. I can't touch that part of my body. I can't look at that part of my body. I can't go that there's probably 15 to 20 times a day where I actually convince
01:08:36
myself that I have cancer. That that's how that's how crazy it is. It's coming it comes in it comes in waves. The best way I can explain it to people who don't have it is I don't smoke weed. I I I
01:08:48
have done in the past, but like I assume you you've you've smoked. Yeah. Um for me, I can't smoke it because I lose my head. So, you know that moment when your brain sort of floats off and you stop being you're conscious but you stop
01:09:00
having your not as alert and then suddenly you become back to reality for a few seconds. That's what my brain does
01:09:06
with cancer. So, because I had that that trigger when I was younger that's really given me this kind of disorder, so to
01:09:14
speak. And then and then that OCD has grown and taken so many different tangents. my granddad who's on my this
01:09:21
arm, my my best mate and my best man, he'll be my best man at my wedding. He um he got ill with septasemia when I was
01:09:28
like 14. And I got home and my mom had told me that he was in the hospital and I remember I went and saw him, went home
01:09:34
that I had a picture of him and he was holding me when I was a baby on my wall and I my lucky number was 13 and I
01:09:40
kissed at 13 times and then a couple of days later he got better. So that [ __ ] triggered me and then and then I
01:09:46
could not go to sleep without kissing it 13 times. I've never been a religious guy. I've I've actively always spoken
01:09:53
about my atheism probably because I was trying to be a B techch Ricky Jay, but they are my beliefs still now or lack
01:09:58
of. And I made up a prayer in my head and I it and I I knew it. It was like it's it's embarrassing to say out loud, but it was like, "Dear God, please look after my mom, dad, nan, granddad,
01:10:10
sister." And then I'd name them all. And then I I'd have to say it three times. And even though I wasn't saying it out loud, if I tripped over a word, even
01:10:18
thinking it, like I thought of the wrong word in the wrong order, I'd have to go back and do it again. I went to have a sleepover around my friends and then
01:10:24
halfway through the night realized, [ __ ] I haven't kissed that photo of my granddad, so I have to go home. Like that's how how mad it is. And now
01:10:30
luckily with the numbers and the patterns and the sort of more the sort of more known about aspects of OCD, if
01:10:36
you will, um the more documented parts of it, I don't necessarily have those. I obsess over time and sunsets and
01:10:43
sunrise, which is weird, but the cancer thing is something that really consumes my life. And if anyone if if there's an
01:10:50
advert come on for cancer research, I have to shoot up and turn it off. And it's it's alarm bells in my head. Ding
01:10:56
ding ding ding ding. Yeah, there's been a few times during this this chat where my brain's gone off and it's like, oh
01:11:04
things like, oh, if you you need to write a will or oh, how's what people what's going to happen to the channel
01:11:09
when you die? like all the little things. Yeah, it's a weird it's a it's a strange thing. But I spoke about this
01:11:15
with Joe Weller on my podcast and I've had hundreds of people DM me on Instagram saying they have a similar
01:11:20
thing and although I don't reply to all of them, I try and get my way through as many as I can. It's deep that isn't it?
01:11:28
Yeah, it but you know on one hand it was because it's it's it's not a world I'm thank I'm thankfully it's not a world
01:11:34
that I that I know but I was sat there thinking oh my god then you can't be the only one that's going through that and I and it's
01:11:40
so amazing that you're so honest about that because there'll be people listening to this right now that go that
01:11:46
is me and I'm that the concept of health anxiety seems so alien to me but 15 times a day you said thinking about
01:11:52
cancer or death or mortality and it's not the prospect of you might have it it's my brain telling me I do
01:11:58
have it. There's no other outcome. It will be I'll be chatting to you now and then it for a minute my head will be
01:12:05
going, "Oh, remember you've got remember you you're ill. You're Yeah. Oh, [ __ ] Right. Okay. I need to deal with that at
01:12:10
some point." And then it's almost like a that that moment when you when you're when you're high and then you come back
01:12:15
down and it's it's what the [ __ ] and then I'm back in. There's a rapper called NF who struggles with OCD and he
01:12:24
talks about them. He puts it into kind of like he says they're like black balloons that he's carrying around in
01:12:29
his brain and every now and then one will float float away or come back and I really resonate to that. If anyone out
01:12:35
there has got health anxiety and and and resonate with some of the stuff that I'm saying today I check out check out NF.
01:12:42
He's got a few songs about health anxiety and OCD and they're it's pretty um it's they're pretty good. They're
01:12:48
pretty accurate. How does someone go about um overcoming these things or curing them? Is it therapy? Is there is there other
01:12:54
resources that they can seek? I have I've never been able to do therapy in terms of because I because I
01:13:01
don't truly know if I'm ill or not. Um I can't bring myself to go walk through the doctor's door because if he if I get that confirmation I melt down. I probably [ __ ] do something silly.
01:13:13
Like I don't know. Like so I don't want that confirmation. So, I'm the worst person to answer that because I would
01:13:19
actively encourage people to go and if they have a worry like go and get a lump checked out. Of course, why would you
01:13:24
not? Or or if you have if you know you have this health, anxiety, OCD, whatever mental disorder it may be, I would
01:13:29
actively encourage people to go and talk to someone, whether that be therapy or whatever, but I can't do it. So, I can't
01:13:35
practice what I preach. My friend Liz, she bought me an OCD workbook and I go through that every now and then and answer the questions and write things
01:13:42
and Yeah. So, it's a hard one for me to answer because I'm I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to practice what I what I
01:13:48
actually preach. So, you're you're too fearful to go and get a health check done. Yeah. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do
01:13:53
it. It's like shop shutters come down in my brain like that because if I go there
01:13:59
and the doctor's like, "Yeah, you're ill." Then that's the end for me. There's no recovery process. That's it.
01:14:06
And that's a mental thing. I know that's not the right thing. Fiona gets upset when she hears that, but I can't. Maybe
01:14:11
it will change when I have kids. What do you mean that's the end for you? I can't live with knowing I'm ill. So,
01:14:18
even cuz I've I've put so much time and effort into believing it myself. My little breaks now when I'm like,
01:14:24
actually, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. If I ever got that confirmation, I would I would shut down. I would But it's why
01:14:31
it's a disorder. That's why it's not right. It's weird. Living with living with those thoughts
01:14:37
is um is not an easy thing to do. Have you found yourself and my business partner, you know,
01:14:42
you've met Dominic Greg when you used to work with him. He went through a number of struggles which he's been very open about and he turned to alcohol as a way
01:14:48
to kind of like self-medicate. And I remember coming downstairs and we lived at the Mickel. Don't know if you ever came to the Mor in Manchester and finding him in the
01:14:55
early hours of the morning just drinking with the lights off at like 3:00 a.m. and then thinking like, "Oh, this guy's
01:15:00
just a piss head whatever." finding out later that he had like some severe anxiety, suicidal ideation, he used to
01:15:05
stand on the train station, he said, and consider, you know, jumping in front of the train and stuff. Did you ever find yourself medicating to
01:15:12
try and escape some of these thoughts or realities you were living in? Yeah, I still do it now.
01:15:18
I still do it now. I I I will go out and drink with my mates and it's not a big problem now and nothing to worry about. And if it was, I wouldn't be sat here telling you about it. But I would go out and drink with my mates and then I would
01:15:30
come home and carry on just drinking on my own because the OCD the balloons fly away and then I feel the shop shutter goes up and I've got this release that I've not thought about having cancer in
01:15:41
the past 5 hours because I' i'm i'm let loose on on booze and then I'll come home and then start to sober up and don't want that. I don't want my thoughts back again. So, I will sit there and I will drink more and it will
01:15:53
get to six in the morning and the sun that's why I I I obsess over sunrise as well because I because I just Yeah, it's
01:16:00
just it's just a tough one. I can't I struggle to sleep almost every night because that when I get in bed, I I
01:16:09
think about it more and that and then when the sunrise comes up and it's a new day and I know I have to start again, it's it's a tough one. So, so I I I
01:16:16
obsess over sunrise times and I could probably tell you within 15 minutes maybe when the sunrise is. I think it's
01:16:22
probably like 6:52 right now maybe. What's the significance of the sun rising? Sorry. because I panic so much
01:16:28
at nighttime and that's when the the the the worst thoughts come into my brain that I panic so much that I can't I
01:16:35
cannot sleep and I'm just in a circle of thinking cancer cancer cancer and then and then because it's like I know I need
01:16:43
sleep cuz I need to go and interview this person tomorrow or present for West Ham tomorrow. It's an important thing.
01:16:48
It's important for everyone. So, but I have to be on camera. I can't have bags under my eyes as well. So, so I see it
01:16:53
as an egg timer and and I'm like, "Shit, [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] The sun's going to come up." And then I've not had any sleep and I've got to go and perform.
01:17:01
And so I I I'm checking my time. I I need to know when the when the sun's coming up, so I I I obsess over that.
01:17:07
Like, and another OCD thing is I always have to turn my phone off on the 15 minutes. So I I have to look at the
01:17:13
time. Say it's 4:00 a.m. I have to see that 400 for the light to turn off before I can settle. And if I miss that and it's 401, well, I'm up for another 14 minutes then because I need to see it
01:17:25
hit 4:15. Yeah, we it's weird. And I don't mean to sound insensitive when I say that. It's
01:17:32
weird because because I have it myself. But it is it's an unusual thing. Um, but there are a lot of people out there that
01:17:37
have a similar thing. So, hit me up on DMs. Maybe we can have a chat. Did you sleep last night? Not really.
01:17:43
Really? Not it. If there's any talk of death in any capacity, I will relate that back to myself. And obviously, I lost my dog last night. So, I was just Yeah, just up
01:17:58
thinking, yeah, it's weird because even though all that all those thoughts plague me and like this is like a
01:18:03
therapy session for me, like talking about this because I've Fiona has heard this a hundred times and then no one
01:18:09
else has really heard it. But, um, even though those thoughts plague me, I am really happy. H
01:18:15
I just am. So last night you find out your dog's passed away and you that sends you into sort of a spiral thinking about death more broadly and yourself. Mhm. Um and that keeps you up last night.
01:18:28
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm in a bit of a in in a bit of a routine at the moment where like I've had like two three hours sleep, have a really busy day today,
01:18:39
drive back to Norwich, and then probably have two three hours sleep tonight. two, three hour until I become exhausted and
01:18:44
then I can just sleep all the way through one night and it's a reset. So like I just work until I can't anymore.
01:18:50
But the the thing you were saying about Doming at like 3:00 in the morning like that is that is I've been that guy. I've
01:18:57
been that guy 150,000 times like Yeah. So I I I when you said it, I could I could envision him there because I've I've been him. M the thing that you said
01:19:11
about your drinking pattern that I can really relate to is with all my mates, we'd like come home after like being in
01:19:17
Manchester or whatever and our like drinking arc, if it was a graph, goes like up and then plateaus cuz we're like
01:19:24
we've had enough. But what you said is that you wanted to carry on drinking because you didn't want the sober thoughts back. And that's exactly what I
01:19:30
used to see in Dom. I used to look at him and thinking, why does he never want the party to stop? Why does he never want anyone to go home? Why does he
01:19:36
always It seems like once he's had one, it's a straight line upwards until he is
01:19:42
incapable of pouring another. Yeah. Whereas I was I would be like I'd have three and then tail off and then want to
01:19:48
be in bed by like 2:00 a.m. Right. Yeah. And so I have mates that are like you and I'm the dom in my group
01:19:55
and and I can't I could never understand the use. I can never understand how why
01:20:01
are you not why do you not want to carry on like like it doesn't make it doesn't make sense. It's such a release for me, such a break from my everyday thoughts.
01:20:09
What? Like, I just assume everyone's gonna be the same. Like, you just want to go to bed and lay there with those
01:20:14
thoughts. Like, no way. Like, let's just carry on and see the birds come up. Fiona, tell me about that. you know, it's it's it's hard enough um having a partner
01:20:25
anyway when you're busy and you're, you know, focused on building your career as I found out, but um one when you're
01:20:31
dealing with difficult thoughts often, it can make it, I guess, an exacerbating factor. So, it can become more difficult.
01:20:36
She's just the best thing that's ever happened to me. Like, she's just [ __ ] incredible. Like, she will sit there and
01:20:43
listen to me until 6:00, 7:00 in the morning, just every time just talk about things. That's regardless of if I've
01:20:49
been drinking or not because I've I feel this podcast may make it sound like that's what I do all the time. It's not
01:20:54
like I will do that more frequently than most people. I probably have two of those nights a month where I stay up
01:21:00
until the silly hours. Um but compared to where I used to be, it's it's it's not it's it's fine. But she will just
01:21:06
sit there and listen and she's not a drinker. She never drinks. Um so she'll come out on a night out and we'll just
01:21:12
be high on life which is brilliant and beautiful and I wish I had a bit of that. um I don't so we're very much
01:21:19
chalk and cheese in that respect but she keeps me going and there was a time in December where I'd stayed up too late
01:21:26
and uh so it was now the early hours of Sunday morning and anxiety was running through my veins and I said I'm not going to go to work on Monday and I was hosting something for West Ham I said I
01:21:38
can't do it I said I can't look people in the eyes I said the OCD is too much I'm I'm shaking I'm panicking I can't
01:21:43
face it and she said oh you will do it I said don't force me to do it fee please, I don't want to do it. She said, "I'm
01:21:48
not going to force you." She I got up in bed and she had uh packed all my stuff that I needed and my laptop and put it
01:21:56
in the car and then when I was ready, she was like, "I've run you a bath. You're going to get a bath and then we're going to go to London. Booked the hotel." I went hotel, woke up the next
01:22:03
day, presented for West Ham, done a good job, smashed it, went driving home the next day, I was bit teary eyed and was like, "I need you to just push me into things." because if I hadn't have done
01:22:14
that, I would have just been hating myself for ages. So, she's very much my rock and uh sounds a bit bit cheesy and
01:22:21
that, but I would not be making content now if it wasn't for her. What an amazing person.
01:22:27
She's [ __ ] beautiful, mate. Yeah, she's Yeah, she's incredible. She's incredible. Some of the advice she gives me and stuff, it's like And when I met her, she was having bad panic
01:22:38
attacks and I didn't know panic attacks were a thing. I really didn't. We was in Covent Garden and we and she just
01:22:45
started shaking and sat sat on the floor and I was like, "What the [ __ ] going on here?" And now she and and she would
01:22:50
she would do no public kind of if I was doing any public events, she didn't want to be there. She didn't want to be whatever. And now it's completely
01:22:56
flipped. I've brought her into my world whether she wanted to or not. She's been a byproduct of me for so long and now
01:23:02
I'm a byproduct of her and she's she's my backbone and she's she's got all of her anxiety seemingly under control. I'm sure she'd tell me if not. She doesn't have panic attacks and now I'm that guy
01:23:13
and she's So yeah, shout to Fiona. Shout to Fiona. Hero. It's so lovely to hear you talk with such um admiration about her as well cuz guys can sometimes they either avoid
01:23:25
talking about their partners or they're they're a bit too tough to like give them the credit for the supporting role they play. M
01:23:31
but I I think the same way with my girlfriend who's actually upstairs now who's been a real rock for me and a real stabilizing force and really like helped
01:23:37
me focus on what actually matters in life is like really I think with my girlfriend she probably I don't know if she's even through the curtain and she
01:23:42
can hear me but she doesn't particularly care about what I've achieved doesn't seem to care at all when I if I like if
01:23:47
I made if I made loads of money it's more about the other things like in terms of being connected to my
01:23:54
family and being a good human being those are the kind of things she drives me on but um fees the same yeah Yeah, like me and my
01:24:01
my family, if I go around my ns on Christmas day, we're all like we get I I love my family, of course I do, but
01:24:06
we'll watch TV, the Christmas specials, whatever's on. We'll go around Fiona's house. Her family never turn the TV on
01:24:12
for the for three or four days over the Christmas period. They sit there and they talk and they love each other and they embrace each other. And for me,
01:24:18
it's I'm like, this is weird. Like, this is oldfashioned, like old school values.
01:24:24
Yeah. But she just she's she's just so full of love and she just Yeah. She just brings everyone
01:24:30
closer. She She walks into a room, she brightens it. So, you want to be a dad someday?
01:24:36
Jeez. Yeah, I do. Why Why was that question difficult? I don't know. I don't I'm I'm
01:24:42
We Me and Fee have spoken about it a lot cuz I'm 29 now. Soon in two weeks. So, I'm getting I feel like I have to kind
01:24:49
of soon. Um You have to kind of soon. Yeah. I have to have a kid soon surely. Like says who? I don't want to be what this I don't want to be a dad that's like 60 when they're like 20. So like I
01:25:02
don't want to be I don't I can't have a kid when I'm 40 then. But do you want to have a kid? Yeah, I do want to have a kid. I'd be a
01:25:07
great kid. I'd be a great dad. But ideally not soon. Yeah. I said when I was early 20s I said
01:25:14
by the time I'm 25. And then when I was 25 I said by the time I'm 27. And then now I'm saying by the time I'm
01:25:21
30. But I've got just under 13 months. So I don't think that's going to happen. And
01:25:26
Fiona's just had a um her sister's just had a baby. So Fiona's just become an auntie and we love the little baby. Of
01:25:31
course we do. But it's hard work and I can give it back when I'm done. Does it feel a bit scary for a lot of people? It's it's quite a scary prospect for me. It's a little bit of a scary prospect too because I think what am I
01:25:43
going to have to sacrifice to I don't want to sacrifice anything. You have to sacrifice something to find
01:25:49
time, right? And Sure. You're very career driven. Yes. Yeah. I I just sort of run about from
01:25:56
place to place talking to people on a camera like I could have a kid and fe could stay at
01:26:03
home and edit but I love my life so much I don't want it to change right now. Are you going to have a kid? I hope so. I hope so. I'm like looking through the curtain. My
01:26:15
girlfriend's there. What's your um You know you're talented right there though, Jack? You know what your talent is, right? Yeah.
01:26:21
What do you think your talent is? It's a difficult question to ask people because it makes them feel uncomfortable. But what would you if you
01:26:26
had to say like the reason I am sat here today and the root cause of my success? What would you diagnose if you were
01:26:32
talking about Jackmate from like a third party perspective? I think I can speak to most people on
01:26:37
their level. So you can put me next to um KSI, you can put me next to Deborah Megan and I'll be able to get a laugh out of them and when they know the real me and I'm not trying to be Jack, mate, I think
01:26:49
that's a good I think that's a good person. And I've never been the best YouTuber. It's probably why I don't do
01:26:54
the typical YouTube anymore. I'm not the best presenter, but I'm one of the best podcasters,
01:27:00
I would say. And I've found what it is I love and what it is I'm good at. So, I would say I'm a really good talker. I would I would completely agree. I
01:27:11
think you're much more talented than you give yourself credit for, actually. I look at some of the stuff you do specifically with presenting actually and podcasting but presenting and
01:27:18
podcasting and it's clearly it's almost a bit like Will Brazier like clearly a real talent that is in my view like impossible to replicate like I like and you talked about
01:27:30
potentially in the future doing some standup stuff. I saw you talking about that before. You'd be great at that
01:27:36
and I could never do like I don't believe I could ever I shouldn't be such a pessimistic person. You did you've been doing big theater productions,
01:27:43
right? Glad I'm not there making people I'm not trying to make people laugh. I'm trying to make them cry. It's like it's like a completely
01:27:48
Yeah. But that's a fine line in comedy. If you can make if you can make someone cry, you can make someone laugh. It's all about emotions.
01:27:54
That's what it's all about. Do you know what it is? It's like the labels we give ourselves. And I've never labeled myself as like a funny person.
01:28:00
I've never told myself that I can make people laugh. Whereas you do that. You do that very almost like effortlessly.
01:28:05
And I think to be honest, I think you've been practicing since you were a kid as you've said. So, I did um I did two shows um opening up
01:28:14
for Max Foch in November and they were the best moments ever of your life. Yeah. And that that was standup. Yeah. Yeah. I feel a bit silly saying it
01:28:25
because Max Foch did an hour beautiful show um and it it was called Zial Butterfly. um it was spelled with a zed for for a reason that becomes clear in the show, but he he had um
01:28:37
presentations and everything. And he came on my podcast. I said, "Oh, you're a real standup now. You've just done a tour all up and down the country." He
01:28:42
was like, "No, I don't feel like a stand up cuz I had these aids and it was almost just whatever." And I was then I felt like an idiot because I'd just done
01:28:49
five minutes opening up for him and I was putting online that I've just done my dream. I've But I had I had I was I
01:28:54
was I was so nervous. I I I pretty much had a panic attack before I went out. I was looking at FE going I can't do it.
01:29:01
Shaking. Couldn't do it. couldn't do it. Had all my little jokes written on my hand there, but they already they'd already sweated off. And I tell you
01:29:07
what, Steve, like I put myself down a lot. And we've spoken about self-deprecating humor. I went out on stage. Max Fos just suddenly went,
01:29:13
"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the stage, Jackman." I went out and that was what I was meant to be doing. Like I
01:29:19
everything any comedian told me on my podcast came to me in that moment. And I learned that and applied it on the
01:29:24
stage. And I had people eating out the palm of my hand and I would make a joke and I would but when I did a bit of
01:29:30
standup years ago, I rushed through it cuz I wanted it to be over. I was in the moment and I was able to live in the
01:29:35
moment and leave pauses and hit beats and it was well good. I walked out and the guy in in the front row had my merch
01:29:41
on. So there's one guy here that knows so I was able to talk to him. You want to do that more? Yeah, I will do it now. Now I know I can do it. I will do it. There's no surely
01:29:51
there's no feeling like that like in front of people live and they're just you know
01:29:56
hearing that laugh is I've never done heroin but I imagine that's what it's like to do
01:30:03
to get that hit and I want that I want that back. That was like the biggest rush that I've felt
01:30:08
in in a long time. And you are you thinking about doing that as a hap under the happy hour brand? I think I'll do a happy hour show um
01:30:15
whatever that may be. But then I also want to do a stand Jack Dean or Jack Mate standup show. Um
01:30:21
I've got loads and loads of standup bits written down. I've I've got notepads and MacBooks full of full of jokes. So
01:30:29
there's nothing like it. There's nothing like the real world. We get kind of lost in the the digital world as like content creators or
01:30:34
whatever. But last night and the last few nights at the padium have been the most like uh nothing has made me feel as
01:30:41
alive as that. So anyway, Israel, I should know I don't normally say this, but [ __ ] it. You
01:30:46
know, Israel was here yesterday, so you know it's the questions from him. Usually, we don't tell people who the question is from, right? But Israel Adisagna
01:30:53
wrote a question for you. Bear in mind, this is the this is the goat of fighting.
01:30:58
This is the goat, right? Yeah. He wrote a question for you. He wrote, and you got to answer this with total
01:31:04
honesty. That's the only rule here. You got to answer it with detail. He said, "How are you truly feeling?"
01:31:16
Content. I was going to say happy, but I still have some issues I need to iron out. So, I'm content and I feel privileged to be where I am.
01:31:30
That's what I'll say. You probably wanted a better answer, but there we go. It's all you getting.
01:31:35
Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time and I'm so glad we finally got to do this cuz you've been an inspiration for me. I I think centrally
01:31:41
because of your willingness to be so open and honest with things and I don't think you'll ever see the impact that
01:31:46
that openness has on thousands hundreds of thousands and millions of people. It's like I think more people need to do
01:31:52
need to to find within themselves to do that because as you've said today it's liberating for you like the therapy of
01:31:58
just being able to say it kind of lifts the weight but it also lifts the weight for everybody listening and so I applaud you for that and your self-awareness
01:32:04
about the journey you've come on as a creator as a man and your maturity. So thank you. It's a pleasure to sit here and thank you for the inspiration.
01:32:10
No, thank you mate. Means a lot and thank you for having me on the show. It's a great show. So um yeah, let's do mine and we'll speak about your favorite
01:32:16
sandwich. Let's go do it. Heat. Heat. N. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]