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We used to be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door. Now we
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are the knock at the door. >> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser. >> I'm Scott Callawa. >> And where are you Scott?
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>> Uh somewhere over the North Atlantic. Cara, where are you? >> All right. I am in my studio in DC. But
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we we recorded >> Corey maintain eye contact. Maintain eye contact. >> Is Corey Luwendowski with you?
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>> No. Wendowski. >> Yeah. So, I'm fairly certain. >> Yeah.
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>> He's not going to keep his job either. >> I'm guessing. Well, let me just give
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people back it up for a minute. Scott, we recorded earlier but had to hop back on. Hence why you're on a plane and and
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I'm and we're redoing this. President Trump has fired Homeland Security Secretary Christy Nomer, giving her a
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fake job. Trump announced the move on True Social, saying Gnome had served us well and had has had numerous and
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spectacular results. He announced the Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen would replace Gnome. Gnome is stepping
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into a new role. Apparently, she wasn't quite fired. I don't know what this is.
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It's like a firing. >> Oh, no. She was fired. >> I get it. >> She's like special envoy to Hulu
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original programming or something. >> She's special envoy. Let's get it right.
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special envoy to The Shield of the Americas. I I I don't even That's like a
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bad Marvel movie. I feel like like the one that we don't want to watch. But let's talk about this cuz uh later in
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the show you have we we'll be talking about a lot of things happening right now for the Republicans. But um talk to
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me about this firing a little bit. Well, supposedly, I mean, you might have more
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information than me, but supposedly it wasn't the conflict of interest of having an affair with her number two. It
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wasn't uh uh essentially killing American citizens. It wasn't it wasn't
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essentially overseeing what I would argue are the definition of concentration camps and that is black
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sites outside legal jurisdiction or protection of your of your um origin country which is the definition of a
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concentration camp. It was supposedly what was the straw that broke Trump's back was that she had spent close to or
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over $200 million I believe on ads featuring her which appear to be uh courtesy of her her number two an
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attempt to raise her awareness for a presidential run that that that was what angered Trump. What have you heard
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Karen? she was advantaging herself and Trump likes to only advantage himself, right? And so anybody else who's trying
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to do that, there was also the question these two recent congressional hearings.
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To me, I I felt the writing was on the wall because Republicans in the Senate particularly were really going after
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her. So they knew that they had no repercussions to do so, right? If they had gone after her because they were
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good people or because they had a backbone. I think only Tom Tillis has been doing that because he's leaving.
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Um, uh, this is Senator Tillis from North Carolina. I think she, uh, I think they had permission to go after her,
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whether it was, uh, Kennedy, uh, John Kennedy or or others that really did attack her. Um, and the Democrats did an
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excellent job, too, bringing up all these issues you talked about. I just felt like it was open season on her, so
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to speak, someone who enjoys killing dogs. And, you know, even the reaction has been interesting. uh Senator Tom
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Tillis uh who was very upset about the disaster relief fuckups I think very much so and about also about f getting
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rid of people uh I mean going after people who didn't commit any crimes right just in terms of he kept talking
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about a quota system why are you doing it on a quota system in the in these hearings he his uh his thing on ex
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saying goodbye was Senator Mark Wayne Mullen is a great guy and a great choice to lead DHS restore competence and
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refocus efforts on quickly distributing disaster aid. That's the first thing he
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noted. Keeping the border secure and targeting violent illegal immigrants for deportation. Another big positive. He
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likes dogs. Um which of course is referenced to to uh her her killing uh her dog. Um people are having a field
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day about this of course uh on the thing. Although one of the good ones about Mark Wayne Mullen who was a
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senator from Oklahoma was uh he can't even have a border between his name uh
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Mark and Wayne Mark Wayne. Um, but no, they, you know, people, the Republicans felt emboldened to attack her and
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therefore it was very clear that they got their signals from the White House would be my guess.
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>> I mean, that just goes to what a poor manager and what a low character person,
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spoiler alert, the president is, and that is when you hire people and you expect them to be part of a team. If you
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know you're going to fire them, which it sounds like he did because it took about
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3 seconds. The moment they announced she was leaving, they announced her replacement
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to quite frankly trot her out and use her as an anger pillow and humiliate her before showing her the door knowing that
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you were going to fire as opposed to saying, "Look, we're making a change.
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There's no reason for you to go in front of Congress or once you resign, you
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probably will not be called. Maybe maybe they still would have called her."
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>> That last two days in Congress was bad. >> But that was okay. We have absolutely no
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respect, fidelity, camaraderie for the people I hire. And if it serves my political purposes, I will throw them
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under the bus and then back up the bus and run over them again. >> That's the Trump way, right? That's the
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Trump way. And in fact, he doesn't even give her the I don't think she deserves
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any dignity. The dignity of just firing her like you're fired. I mean, the guy
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who's so famous for doing you're fired cannot say you're fired. you have to
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give him this symmetrical envoy to the shield of the Americas which and of course she's bragging as if she won
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right as if it was a good thing because like even as she's humiliated and by the
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next humiliation by the way is going to be Pam Bondi right that's obvious he's
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going to go all the ladies as you know of the Trump administration are in big trouble um and they will be the first to
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go they'll get to Cash Patel at some point or maybe not but like another incompetent another you know same thing
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with Pam Bondi menacious and incompetent Um, and so he he doesn't the fact that
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he hasn't let go so many of these people already who are just not up to the task
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is really says a ton about his management style. >> I think they're more strategic than
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people want to give me a credit for. And when I was a consultant, I always used I
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would review DAXs and associates going in to present to a management team. I would say I would ask a series of
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questions. And one of the questions I would ask what I would say I would ask who's in the room that's not in the room
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and that is what is the context what is the influences what is the overarching theme of the vibe in this room or their
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objectives before you even show up and the two people that are always in the room around any Trump official and any
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public activity are one Roy Conn. If you look at the way these people have put themselves in front of the Senate and
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the Congress, one of the greatest erosions in the grand equity of the United States is there has always been a
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level of civility and decorum. They aren't that South Korean Senate where they break into fisticuffs or they start
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yelling at each other. There was always a certain amount of respect. But this Roy Con deny, deflect,
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uh, obuscate, attack, you're you're a you're you're ashamed of yourself.
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You're a failed lawyer. Go on. Don't answer the question. That has in and
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among itself eroded the value and the prestige of the Senate. Roy Con is always in the room when these guys
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testify. The person that's always in the room is Epstein. And I believe there are
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three people armed with LLM saying monitoring the temperature of Epstein in the news. And when it gets above a
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certain temperature, they think of distractions. And nothing is better than one of these hearings or declaring war
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or saying you're going to raise tariffs of 50%. But I literally think they have
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they are monitoring the the number of times Epstein and Trump are linked together when it gets above a certain
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temperature in the press. they they they throw someone under the bus, announce a
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tariff, start start firing missiles, whatever it might be, you know, capturing or uh absconding with with um
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leaders of Central American countries, but Roy Conn and Jeffrey Epstein are >> very smart. That's a And the Epstein
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stuff is not going away. Let me just say it is not. It is, as I said a half a year ago, it is it is here to stay. like
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it's the thing. To to Christy Gnome's credit, she did not go to the island on
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her [ __ ] plane. Um, so that's a good that's a good part of her. But we wish
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you well, Christy. You're completely incompetent and deserve to be fired. Um,
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but the fact that he kept you there that long says more about Donald Trump than it does about Christine Gnome. She she's
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is what she is, I guess. >> I heard she's going to be volunteering to get an all kill dog shelter.
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>> Oh, very funny. I mean, that's going to that's going to go to the end of her
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days and deservedly so. Anyway, uh now back to the rest of the show. Guess where I went last night?
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>> Where'd you go? >> Party for uh Andrew Ross Sorcin at the French Embassy, our favorite Canadian.
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>> I was not invited. >> I know. It was by Puck and he got the First Amendment award. He gave a He gave
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such a good speech. He's like, >> he's a very talented guy. >> He's such a nice boy. I don't know what
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else to say. He's a nice boy. He gave an excellent speech about the First Amendment. And he he said everyone
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thinks he's Canadian because we say that's the case. He now is asked about
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Canadian his wife too. His wife they're very >> but let's just say he's Canadian even
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though he's not. >> Can I tell you the first time I heard his name? >> What? Yeah.
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>> My first board meeting at the New York Times. Uh they were going around and we
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have this su succession strategy and that's when I knew the CEO wasn't very
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good was it was clear she was like shooting everybody that got near the CEO spot. and they went through and we're
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trying to everyone was asking about compensation and equity awards and they mentioned this one young reporter and
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everyone's like well offer them 8% you know and they mentioned they go oh and
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we have this young reporter who's really talented Andrew soccer and everyone went
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pay him whatever he wants >> oh >> everyone literally said you know we're
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trying to manage a company that we need fiscal discipline it wasn't doing well
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yeah >> and his name comes up and everyone looks around pay him whatever he wants we
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can't lose that guy >> yeah Well, he looks great. He gave He got the First Amendment award. I I And
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he gave a beautiful speech. Anyway, congratulations, Andrew. >> Was it a fun party?
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>> It was a good party. >> Daddy's going to a big party. >> What are you doing?
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>> Well, you were invited, but you wouldn't be my plus. >> Oh, the Vanity Fair. I actually um the
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guy who's the editor's boyfriend, Sean McCree, was there and he sat where I was
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going. I said, "Well, Scott Galloway is going to be there, so he'll shot the
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place." Buckale. >> Um uh you want to see someone at the bar having a good time? Yeah. I've been so
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nervous about what to wear. Spent most of the weekend trying to style myself. >> Don't wear jeans at a tux like Ted
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Sarandos. I didn't think that worked. >> I'm rolling up to the bar and I'm
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getting [ __ ] up and I'm just going to observe. I don't need to speak to
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anybody. >> No, you need to talk to people. >> You know what I do? I talk to Ted
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Sarandos about strategy and who he should acquire. That's that's the limit
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of my social capabilities. >> Do you not do the executives there? Can I tell you two quick stories of vanity?
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>> I want to meet the gay hockey guys. Will they be there? >> Oh, they pro. Oh, I'm sure they'll be
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there. Oh, I bet they are. We are Are you allowed to take selfies with that thing or do they kick you out?
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>> Well, I don't know. They used to. Yeah. I don't No, I don't think so. I think
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you're not allowed to. Let me tell you two quick stories. I went to one when it
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was up at this um the sand not it was in that hotel Sunset Towers. It used to be
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the sunset >> and it was small, much more intimate and one year all the tech people got went
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like all they invited all the tech people. And so I was like [ __ ] I don't want to see these people. I want to see
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celebrities. And they they kept they're really shy at the time. And they kept
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bothering me like to talk to me. And I was like, I don't want to talk to you,
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Sergey Bren. I don't want to talk to you all you people. And Sergey Brand wouldn't wasn't able to talk to anybody,
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but except they were wearing Google Glass. He was wearing a Google Glass. And he goes, "No one's talking to me."
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And I'm like, "Take off your [ __ ] Google Glass and like say you're a
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billionaire. That's how it's going to work here." The second time uh the
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second time I went there I ran into um I was talking as you did to Bob Iger or I
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forget Comcast head may have been Ted Sarandos and the guy who plays uh Harry Potter came up to me and said excuse me
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you know and he said I've noticed all the really important uh studio people are sort of
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>> so like you to have a story that makes you sound powerful. >> No I did. No let me finish the story.
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Shut up. So he said, "I've noticed you're talking. They're all talking to
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you and they're very interested in talking to you. Who are you?" This guy
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is really smart. I love him. Daniel Gradcliffe. And I said, "I'm their drug
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dealer." >> That's what I did. >> But I'm not. >> Anyway, I have a lot of good stories
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from there. You'll have a good time. Talk to people. Talk say hello to Robert
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Dairo if he's there cuz he >> Yeah, that's not my style. I wasn't
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going to go. I said no. And then someone we both know said, "You have to go
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once." So I'm going go on. But I'm literally It's been very stressful
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picking out my outfit. >> It's early. Remember, it's early. You go
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like like 10. >> I'm literally leaving you at South by Southwest. I'm changing on the plane and
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I'm going straight to the event. >> Yeah. Yeah. It goes on forever though.
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Stay till late. Stay till late. >> I only think I was invited cuz they thought I was going to be your plus one.
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And then you said no when I said yes. >> No, I don't think so. Anyway, have a
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great time. You'll have a great time. We've got a lot to get to today because
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we also this weekend will be in Minneapolis. We'll talk about that in a second. on Sunday. We're very excited to
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do resist and unsubscribe there. Um, but let's get to the news first. Let's dig
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in. First, uh, Defense Secretary Pete Hegsth says the war in Iran is far from over, warning that we've only just
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begun. It was such a ridiculous press conference. As a record, the House is set to vote on a measure to block
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President Trump from taking further action in Iran without congressional support. And the Senate already failed
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to do that. By the way, European leaders are pushing back on Trump, notably Spain's prime minister, who said, "We
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can't play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions of people." He's
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absolutely correct. The White House said they were cooperating and then they said
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they weren't. Um Trump is also facing push back from parts of his MAGA base over the war. Even as he insists MAGA
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loves what I'm doing, they do not love what he's doing. And looking at the
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economic impact, US gas prices saw their biggest single day spike in three years
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this week, and oil prices continue to rise. Um, this drag on the in the US economy is going to be very tough for
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Trump and and the Republicans as we approach the midterms. I've been uh I've
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been talking to a lot of Republicans. In fact, had a meeting with a very prominent one yesterday. Um, and they
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are they I can tell you they do not like this or they they think Pete Hath is is
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an imbecile. That's for sure. And they don't think this was well thought out at
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all. I think and that's that's the Republicans and these are people who maybe publicly are being supportive by
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at least voting against his the restrictions on Trump. What what are your thoughts about the economy? What's
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happening here? >> It really hasn't taken much of a hit yet. It's the existential threat that it
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could digress into something much bigger and more dangerous. The oil is up about
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11 11 bucks a barrel or 10% uh or 12% which translates to about 25 cents a gallon typically. Typically wars the
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markets go down and then they check back and actually the year after a war ends markets typically outperform. So I don't
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think you can say that the markets have responded or that we know this is going to be inflationary.
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>> Yeah. >> What what I think you can say is that I believe if he had gone to Congress and
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made an argument for why we're doing this, why now, and what are our objectives, he might have gotten the
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authorization for the use of military force. They they never get declarations of war any longer. They get AUMFs.
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But unfortunately, what they've done is because they had to position this as a
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defensive action, they said, "Oh, one of our allies was about to be imminently
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attacked. We were going to have to respond." So, it's like, "Okay, you just
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gave into this very dangerous trope >> that Israel is controlling the US."
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>> Yes. >> That was just And you have had such inconsistent messaging.
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>> Absolutely. >> This is regime change. No, we don't want regime change. This is going to be 5
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days. We'll be there as long as it takes. Yeah. This is a >> Now the Kurds. We're bringing the Kurds
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in. >> Yeah. Now we're going to operate the Kurds. Well, okay. What does that mean
00:16:34
when the Kurds get fired up in other regions? This is a special combat operation. No, it's a war. They have so
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much inconsistent messaging. And the fact that they didn't reflect the confidence to at a minimum think about
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the American citizens in the Gulf and a plan for getting them out of there. >> That seems like makes Biden's
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Afghanistan withdrawal seem like >> in addition just just tactically >> Mhm.
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>> tactically bombing Thran the the majority the real danger here is that the Iranian people
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are not on our side turn against us. Uh because what the Iranian biggest miscalculation was firing they basically
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John Stewart summarized it as two guys start beating up on you. So what do you do? You try and start a fight with
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everyone in the bar. That was a real strategic mistake on the part of Iran. But our potentially biggest mistake is
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when we're bombing Thran, you're essentially flattening neighborhoods of
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people who are probably more pro- West >> and empathetic. It's the the kind of
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religious the theocracies in the rural area. So, >> no one really trusts. I think the why
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why now and objectives had legitimacy here and he potentially could have got 77% of Republicans are or 72% of
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Republicans are in favor of this. Only 17% of progressives. >> It's low. 72% of Republicans is low.
00:18:00
It's usually 95%. >> The the broader number is 4159. So, let's be clear. The majority of
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Americans do not support this. I still think had he had a well thoughtout plan, he could have gotten potentially
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>> I don't agree with you. I think uh this was interesting listening to this
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Republican very high-profile politician, he was like they have 15 days to resolve
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this like because if it drags on more and they don't seem to have a point, uh
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it's a problem. And one of the things he was pointing to was unaffiliated um
00:18:30
voters. He's like the yeah the independence he says across there there are red lights everywhere for
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Republicans around independence and independents hate this and he said if he doesn't have a very tight sharp plan in
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place I mean he was blumx that they didn't have one Mike that they didn't
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and they they weren't communicating them and I'll tell you one when he had gone
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to that briefing about whether there really was an imminent threat and one of the reporters asked him is was there an
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im imminent threat and he said well there's been one for 47 years. That's
00:19:01
what it sounded like. Like he was like didn't even buy their nonsensical reasons.
00:19:06
>> But you asked you asked about the economy. So the the decision to to go to war in
00:19:13
my opinion is not what is going to be quote unquote the downfall or really hurt the Trump administration. It's the
00:19:18
following. It appears that these types of actions, unilateral actions, where you don't make any attempt to get
00:19:25
European or Gulf nations involved to increase legitimacy, much less the resources, right? These nations could
00:19:31
have helped shoot down these nations have their own military, their own intelligence. They could have served a
00:19:35
real valuable role in help protecting those Gulf States, achieving the objectives. The fact that we now have a
00:19:42
$ 1.1 trillion military that appears to be run by incompetence. In addition, America was the operating system. We
00:19:50
everyone settles their trades and dollars. They operate on the IP agreements of America. We largely
00:19:55
enforce the flows of energy with our navy, our military bases, make sure that rogue nations don't go too rogue. We're
00:20:03
sort of been the operating system. Now, this decision amongst others, specifically going about it unilaterally
00:20:08
with no attempt to even consult Congress or our allies, all of a sudden shows the
00:20:14
nation that used to enforce that no nation go too rogue, they're now that rogue nation.
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>> Yeah. >> But I think the real existential threat to the economy and to American
00:20:23
prosperity is the following. It's yet another data point that shows we used to
00:20:28
be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door. Now we are the knock at the door.
00:20:34
>> Yeah, I get it. It's really What's interesting is that um how many people
00:20:39
are are secretly not for it, right? It's it's a really you do see the strength of
00:20:45
of people pushing back now on Trump, which is really interesting. Much more so all over the place, not listening to
00:20:50
him, not going along with him. Now, typically politicians go along with uh anybody when there's a war happening.
00:20:57
They try not to be too difficult. But one of the things is this further abrogation of power by the Congress, you
00:21:03
know, in terms of where they where they and they're sitting around act talking
00:21:07
and debating about whether they have power or not. If I don't know if you've
00:21:10
followed any of that, it's kind of ridiculous. And they do. And one of the it just I think it just creates more cha
00:21:16
chaos around Trump. Like he's chaotic >> at the same time as all his his his work
00:21:22
the people that work for him are incompetent that seem more and more and especially Pete Seth. He seemed
00:21:27
completely out of sorts for this. And one of the the of course there's conspiracy theories everywhere, but one
00:21:33
of them is that if Iran hits the United States in some way, a city of a United States city, which is entirely possible,
00:21:40
that's what he'll use as the excuse to call martial law. Just just so you know,
00:21:44
there's a lot of things happening all all at the same time. And I don't I just
00:21:49
don't it's not good because it's chaos and Trump. Chaos and Trump. And so I
00:21:53
think Trump is the same thing as our domestic problems here with him. It's chaos. It's chaos and it's not thought
00:21:59
out and it's incompetence. Um, and you know, there obviously the Republicans
00:22:03
are worried about the midterms and they should. Um, the first primaries of the 2026 midterms. Here are some of the
00:22:09
highlights from Tuesday's elections. In Texas, incumbent Senator John Cornin and
00:22:14
Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton are headed to a late May GOP Senate runoff. The GOP clash is already the most
00:22:21
expensive Senate primary in history with Republicans alone racking up nearly hund00 million in ad buys. Um Trump is
00:22:28
supposedly going to pick one and tell the other to get out, but Ken Pax has already said he's not getting out even
00:22:32
if he doesn't get picked. Um and state representative James Terico beat Representative Jasmine Crockett in
00:22:38
Texas's Democratic Senate primary. Let's listen to a clip from Telerico's victory
00:22:43
speech. To the billionaires who have taken over our state and taken over our country, your unchecked power is coming
00:22:52
to an end. >> Your days dividing working people are numbered. >> Oh, he sounds like a guy we should hang
00:23:01
out with. Um, good, good, good. It was a good speech. And actually, I have to say
00:23:05
Crockett handled the the defeat well. They seemed to come together. Everyone's
00:23:10
like, "We're all going to come together." Um and uh they both ran really tough campaigns and and then they
00:23:15
they I have to say everybody acted the Democrats look like they're not uh in
00:23:21
disarray as they say. Uh Texas Supreme Court stepped in to block a lastminute voting extension in two counties after
00:23:26
GOP primary polling mixups backing an appeal from Ken Paxton. It seemed like he was just trying to create chaos. In
00:23:33
North Carolina, former Governor Roy Cooper won the Democratic Senate primary quite easily and will face Republican
00:23:39
Michael Wattley uh for uh Senator Tom Tillis' seat in the race that could help
00:23:44
decide Senate control. Um so interesting stuff going on there. A lot of people lost their jobs. Um Dan Krenshaw lost
00:23:51
his job. Uh he was targeted by a billionaire, speaking of billionaires, who spent enormous amounts of money to
00:23:57
get rid of him. in North Carolina, the head of the state senate who'd been in
00:24:00
power for a long long time uh is in a very tight race. A lot of people losing losing their jobs like all over the
00:24:07
place. So, uh what do you think uh this means for Democrats this year and for Republicans?
00:24:12
>> It's very exciting for Democrats. the I mean the Torico race. First off, if
00:24:18
Terico wins the seat against the Republican nominee, I think he's likely or very likely to be the vice
00:24:25
presidential pick in 2028 because if he wins this and shows an ability to win in
00:24:30
Texas, if as VP they think he could deliver Texas, it's game over for whoever's for the Democrats win. If you
00:24:38
could flip Texas in a presidential race, do >> you think he should stay there for a
00:24:41
little bit? get amass power. >> Well, how long did how long was Obama senator?
00:24:46
>> Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, they do. The VP is supposed to
00:24:50
be the person who could take over. It's not. The VP is brought on to hopefully
00:24:53
win a state >> that is a swing state for the most part. Anyways, so it's exciting moment for
00:24:59
Terico, but what's really exciting for Democrats is that through the odds, the
00:25:04
majority or the number of Democrats turning out in a primary was in the high hundreds of thousands, 7 or 800,000.
00:25:13
>> 2.1 million Democrats turned out. And the very this the other very exciting
00:25:18
thing is that >> I think it was 1.8 million Republicans turned out. So whoever whoever whatever
00:25:24
party is able to turn out more people for the primary gives you real insight into what's going to happen in the
00:25:30
general >> especially among Hispanics he really pulled in that he shifted them
00:25:35
>> and if we have the first Texas statewide Democrat elected in 20 or 30 years
00:25:40
>> yes was the last one. >> What's that? >> Lloyd Benson was the last one I think.
00:25:45
>> I thought it was an Richards. >> No she was governor. >> She was governor. There you go. So, this
00:25:50
is an exciting this is just a super exciting moment uh for Democrats. So, I I don't you know I don't I don't think
00:25:58
you can overstate it. All the races look to be have been closer. The surprising stuff was some of the more some of the
00:26:06
Republicans who lost their lost their seats. That was very interesting. >> Um I was thinking of sending some money
00:26:12
to Paxton because I'd love to see him against Terara because I think that means Terica wins.
00:26:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, anyways, >> he's refusing to get out. I mean, who
00:26:20
knows if he I mean, Trump's going to try to get him out. Um, supposedly they
00:26:24
think Cornin's the better person to run against. >> Well, he's more electable. He's
00:26:27
absolutely >> within the MAG. It doesn't excite the MAGA groups, right? They like Paxton.
00:26:32
He's backed by all the MAGA groups. All of them. >> Yeah. It's This is Look, I I looked at
00:26:39
the results and all I thought was and I tried to screen out my biases. I thought
00:26:43
there's just no getting around this. Mhm. >> This feels really good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. It was
00:26:48
really interesting. Um and I thought that uh Telerico's continued focus on the rich was really interesting. It's
00:26:55
really it's it's got a similar vibe of obviously you would point to AOC and
00:27:00
>> Bernie. Yeah. >> Bernie and uh of course Mandani. Like he's like the Texas Mandani kind of
00:27:06
thing. Um and so you know I kept saying you know if he wins and of course Trump attacked him quite a bit he'll be at the
00:27:13
White House hanging out with Trump like Trump will be hugging him like and stuff
00:27:16
like that because he loves a winner that kind of thing. He's just the kind of
00:27:19
person that will do pull a similar thing that Montani did. >> Well Mandami was to his credit Mandami
00:27:25
was smart. He showed that he was a pragmatist and he was willing to >> um he he wanted to be effective versus
00:27:30
right and not politically grandstand and he got that woman released. He's he's
00:27:35
proven to be quite pragmatic. >> He's kept Jessica Tish as police commissioner who is very effective. I
00:27:41
just have a feeling Telerico is going to have the same experience with Trump that
00:27:44
Trump will will bear hug him. >> The class warfare if you will around the billionaire class. So the genie
00:27:50
coefficient which is a measure of inequality >> if it's zero to one. If you're at zero
00:27:56
it means everyone has exactly the same amount. If you're at one it means one
00:27:59
person has everything. >> Mhm. >> I think but revolution always takes on a
00:28:03
different complexion. I think what we have now is a series of smaller revolutions. But when you start
00:28:08
identifying a class of people based on their wealth, I mean that that kind of means that the revolution is coming and
00:28:15
Trump and Epstein and the people Epsteed himself with it has created I I mean we
00:28:22
are I mean the revolution here might be a series of of tax increase. I I don't
00:28:27
know how it's going to >> let me let me just read something. This was in a story I read. The richest
00:28:32
Americans have amassed enormous wealth in recent years, while most Americans have seen theirs stagnate. The net worth
00:28:37
of the top 0.1% doubled from 2020 to a collective sum of 24.9 trillion in the third quarter of 2025 and now accounts
00:28:48
for 14.4% of the total household wealth according to the Federal Reserve. That's
00:28:54
an astonishing figure. That's just astonishing. >> Well, yeah. The what William Gibson said
00:29:00
about technology is true about prosperity in that it's prosperity is here in America. It's just not evenly
00:29:05
distributed. >> Yeah. But it's >> and now and it's made us more fragile as
00:29:08
an economy to think of the morality of it. 10% the top 10% of US households are now responsible for 50% of the spend.
00:29:15
>> Right. I think tech billionaires have done so much damage to themselves in
00:29:19
this the way they behaved and they do act like they have unch and I think Elon Musk will go down in history as someone
00:29:24
who really began the push back against this because the way the imperious and ridiculous way he conducted himself and
00:29:30
all of them all of them do all of them do >> well becoming the wealthiest man in the
00:29:33
world such that you can cut off aid to HIV positive mothers that's not a good
00:29:36
luck >> yeah it's not a good look any congratulations to uh Telerico and
00:29:40
others who won yesterday >> and to Jasmine Crockett by the way I thought she ran a great campaign She
00:29:45
went right up and then attacked Christy Gnome beautifully. Like did a beautiful take down of Christy Gnome which is
00:29:51
she's very good at her job. Um I we haven't seen the last of her. >> Hope not. She really is. Okay, Scott,
00:29:58
let's go on a quick break. When we come back, what Sam Alman is saying about
00:30:02
OpenAI's deal with the Pentagon and what Daario Amodi is saying about Sam Alman.
00:30:06
It's pretty eviscerating. >> Support for the show comes from Cororeweave. AI isn't just a new tool.
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corweave.com/refor anything. Scott, we're back. Open A has updated its deal with the Pentagon, adding
00:31:12
language that says uh its AI system quote shall shall not be intentionally used for domestic surveillance. CEO Sam
00:31:20
Alman wrote it's critical to protect the civil liberties of Americans. But at an
00:31:24
all hands meeting this week, Sam told staff that open had no control over how the defense department uses its
00:31:29
software. And while uh defending the deal in the Pentagon, he acknowledged that rolling it out so quickly made the
00:31:35
company look quote opportunistic and sloppy. That's the the app producing sloppy is the poor name of of open AI.
00:31:43
Sam said it's been painful to try to do the quote right thing and then get quote
00:31:48
personally crushed for it. Oh my god, Sam, this is so he needs to stop talking. I've got to say um it's a
00:31:54
question of whether he's actually tarnished the brand too much in his actions. Um Chachi PT uninstalls surged
00:32:00
295% the day after the Pentagon deal was announced. Claw downloads continue to spike. Meanwhile, um, uh, Anthropic CEO
00:32:08
Dario Modi told his staff that the Trump administration didn't like Anthropic
00:32:12
because it didn't, uh, it it hadn't given, um, dictator style praise to Trump, while Sam has. He really laid
00:32:20
into they they there's, if you think Elon Musk and Sam Alman have a problem,
00:32:24
Dario Modi and Sam Alman have a problem. So, what do you think about this? This is like a a real od
00:32:32
something's going on over there at OpenAI that they really need to fix. >> I think of it on the other side and you
00:32:38
know as as people know we're going to be resist and unsubscribe in Minneapolis on
00:32:42
Sunday. And the way we're evolving it is we're now going to um try and encourage
00:32:48
people to sign up for who we think are good actors. And the most obvious contrast here is the contrast between
00:32:53
open AI and anthropic. And I've been saying for six months that I thought one
00:32:58
of the biggest commercial opportunities was for a CEO basically to say no and say these are we're we're done enabling
00:33:04
these type of this type of depraved behavior. We're not going to engage in the violation of Americans Americans
00:33:10
rights. And the hero we didn't think we needed is Dario Amod. He's basically
00:33:15
stepped up and he said no. And just to the point of it being a huge commercial opportunity,
00:33:21
uh he uh Anthropic immediately surged number one in the app store and its annual recurring revenue has gone from
00:33:28
14 billion to 19 billion in just one week. So this is going to be this is a big moment because what Daario and
00:33:36
Anthropic have done even if they don't realize it is they're all of a sudden
00:33:41
gonna give a bunch of CEOs across America >> the confidence to start saying no. Yeah,
00:33:47
>> because I thought it was going to be Nike, but we said this six months ago.
00:33:51
It's a huge commercial opportunity. >> Got to be a tech person. >> Tech has been so in bed with Trump. It's
00:33:57
got to be a tech person doing it. That's >> fair point. But the the point is the
00:34:01
opportunity here >> was for someone to just stand up and say enough already. I'm I'm not going to I'm
00:34:06
done. And >> I'll tell you, a lot of Republican senators really have not liked the way
00:34:11
Hegath has handled. I've been talking to a lot of them quietly. They have been
00:34:15
saying this >> it's anti- capitalist. >> Yes. It's very they're very not
00:34:20
disposed. They're like when did we become communists essentially and and one of the things that'll be
00:34:25
interesting. I mean sort of anthropic is a little like um what Tom Tillis has been doing. He's left but he has
00:34:31
enormous leverage over the Trump administration now because he can say things and so in he says this sucks.
00:34:37
Pete he or Steven Miller sucks, right? he does say it outright and then others say well I'm not really liking some of
00:34:45
the things Zen Miller it gives them the courage to say slightly less critical things and I think that's a great way to
00:34:51
be and Dario is playing that role I get it but he's playing the role of a heat
00:34:56
shield in a lot of ways >> if you're under you get to make weapons for the government it's legal if you're
00:35:02
>> if you're um palunteer you get to sell data to the government as long as it's legal and for
00:35:08
whatever purposes they might use it for. And if you're anthropic, you get to work
00:35:13
with who you want. You can't do it based on you can't discriminate or not work
00:35:16
with people based on their sexual orientation or their ethnicity, but they can absolutely. We get to decide who we
00:35:22
take ads from. >> We we we say no all the time to advertisers and say no, we're not
00:35:27
comfortable with it. Uh the what the the big thing here is that in one week, Claude went from number 42 to number one
00:35:37
in the free app store. So, this is I mean this is a big moment. This is a turning point because I just
00:35:46
trust me on this. In the next 30 days, all of a sudden, we're going to see these these CEOs cosplaying Nelson
00:35:54
Mandela and acting all righteous. >> I don't know. I don't know about that.
00:35:57
One of the things that was interesting, there was a poll out in Emerson poll. I can't remember. No, that wasn't Emerson.
00:36:01
It was a it was a more normal poll um that said that people want CEOs to remain neutral but they also want them
00:36:08
to be genuine. So they kind of like this you know even though they say they don't
00:36:13
want companies to weigh in they kind of do which is interesting that people answer differently. I do think people do
00:36:21
vote like with resistance unsubscribe if you don't like how chat g I so many
00:36:25
people have told me they have dumped chat GPT more than any of the other ones and Amazon would be the second one when
00:36:31
they come up to me to ask me about your efforts with resistant unsubscribe. It's
00:36:36
always Amazon and and Open AI that they focus in on. That's what I've noticed.
00:36:41
>> But we haven't had an option to the upside. We haven't had a carrot just to
00:36:44
stick. >> Great idea. And this has given everyone the ability to say all right my lack of
00:36:49
spending is a signal but my spending can also be a signal >> right >> and I think there's a big opportunity
00:36:55
here and I'm personally going to urge people to sign up for and patronize anthropic
00:37:03
>> and to unsubscribe and not use open AI and send a very strong signal that
00:37:08
people notice and when certain companies stand up at potentially you know potentially pretty severe risk of
00:37:14
retribution There's all kinds of second order effects of Palanteer uses Claude. A lot
00:37:20
of people use Claude%. It's a real risk. It might cost them in the short run.
00:37:23
>> Well, there's a there's a lot over the medium and the long term. I believe this
00:37:27
is one of the biggest commercial opportunities presented to companies right now.
00:37:30
>> Yeah, we'll see where it goes. Um the issue, let me just make a warning for
00:37:35
anthropic Dario who is typical te tech person, arrogant. It can be arrogant and um imperious kind of thing. He loves to
00:37:44
write, which I I appreciate. I like a I like a CEO that does really is a good writer actually. Um he he's got to be
00:37:51
careful not to appear too righteous, right? Too self-righteous. I think that's where
00:37:56
>> I think he should go dark and just let his action speak for his words. >> Yeah, exactly. I think there is that,
00:38:00
you know, he's definitely getting attacked by the idiot Emil Michael and David Saxs, the other [ __ ] Um
00:38:07
>> well, again, government government officials deciding that >> we're now, like you said, central
00:38:12
planning. Yeah, >> it's another data point you asked about the economy. Every time we diminish the
00:38:19
rule of law and that everyone gets to is is is enable everyone is entitled to and
00:38:25
subject to the same laws. Every time we say okay the the law is now a tool for political retribution based on who's in
00:38:32
who's in power. We lose we our price earnings multiple on the S&P goes down.
00:38:38
>> Right. He's more powerful. Dary Mod is more powerful now than he was because
00:38:42
he's the only one. Right. And the same thing with the Tom Tillis, he has more
00:38:46
leverage now in his 300 days left cuz it gives the gives people permission to be
00:38:53
to push back in a maybe not he gets to be the louder one both of them. And it it'll be interesting. It'll be all over
00:38:59
the place. Um speaking of not pushing back, FCC chair Brendan Carr, who I love to call a [ __ ] because he is, says he
00:39:07
expects the Warner Brothers Paramount merger deal to get through approval pretty quickly. Of course, you lap dog.
00:39:14
Let's listen to what he said when asked about whether he would have concerns
00:39:16
about the Netflix deal. >> Yeah, there was a lot of concerns in DC and you can see it already. Just the
00:39:21
scope and scale on the streaming service in particular, they would had a very difficult path forward from regulatory
00:39:26
perspective. This deal uh is a lot cleaner, does not raise at all the same types of concerns. I think there's some
00:39:31
real consumer benefits that could emerge from it. >> He's right about it was obviously
00:39:35
they're smaller. That's that's right, Brandon. But Brandon has nothing to do
00:39:38
with this deal and he always mouths off on everything. Um, meanwhile, Fitch Ratings, one of the Wall Street's big
00:39:44
credit rating agencies, has cut Paramount's credit ratings to junk status. No surprise. Enormous debt, I
00:39:50
think, from 75 to hundred billion dollars in debt. It's a big It's a big
00:39:53
chunk of money. They say they're going to delever quickly, but it's always
00:39:56
hard, as Bill Cohen noted. Um, and David Zazoff, also not looking so good. President and CEO of Warers. He's
00:40:02
looking good to shareholders. Filed to sell over $114 million worth of stock in the company. he's getting pillaried by
00:40:08
because it's very clear that um that uh Paramount will have to cut. They say six
00:40:13
billion it's much higher. Um you know CAR does not play a role here just just
00:40:19
for people to understand a real role. Um but it will get through it probably will
00:40:23
you know they've been working Europe, they've been working the government. Um
00:40:28
it's just a question of how they get through and and what damage they have done by doing this very non-economic
00:40:35
deal. Um, any more thoughts on that? >> When the book on the worst acquisitions
00:40:39
in history >> is written, it should just be called Warner Brothers. >> It's true.
00:40:45
>> I mean, if you if you r if you ran into >> time Warner executives in 2005, Steve K
00:40:53
is super smart. He realized that AOL had nowhere near the value it was trading at. So he said, "This is a time to trade
00:40:59
it in for boring revenues that come from records and books and parks and movies."
00:41:05
>> And if you find a Time Warner executive two or three years later, literally
00:41:09
their retirements were ruined because of what was the worst acquisition uh in history. And that's Time Warner's
00:41:16
merger with AOL. And AOL within like 36 months was worth 10% of what Time Warner
00:41:23
had to pay for it and give up. And then AT&T bought Time Warner and then barely
00:41:27
and then had to take a had to take a haircut. >> And then Time Warner merged with
00:41:33
Discovery. >> Yeah. >> And basically it turned into just a giant >> uh public benefit organization. It's
00:41:40
like basically the merger between Discovery and Warner Brothers is if David Zazov had been honest, he would
00:41:47
have stood up and said, "Look, this can make me almost a billionaire regardless
00:41:52
of whether I destroy or make shareholder value." >> He certainly didn't improve it. He
00:41:56
didn't improve it. >> It did not. It's underperformed the S&P by any stretch of the imagination. He's
00:42:01
a brilliant investment banker and he's going to walk away with $700 million,
00:42:05
whatever. It's legal. >> Good for him shareholders. What I don't get is if I was Netflix, I would be I'd
00:42:12
be much meaner or more mavelian and I'd be trying to fire up as many Democratic
00:42:16
lawmakers as possible. >> I think they are I think probably they are they're saying a lot of p you know
00:42:21
uh Jerry Cardelli who's one of the investors tried to clap back at Netflix all the all the I've talked to some
00:42:27
Paramount executives and they're all >> the unions I don't get I can't get over
00:42:31
like Netflix has got sour grapes. I'm like they're accurate sour grapes like
00:42:35
sorry I think it's very effective by slapping them you know making them a villain but yeah I agree the union's
00:42:42
>> it's going to be 8x and also uh Edgar Bronman Sher Redstone and now David
00:42:47
Ellison there's a general trend >> throughout history where dad makes a
00:42:52
[ __ ] ton of money through grit and creativity and then dad Jr. loses it. Yeah,
00:42:59
>> Junior. >> But basically the only ones who were >> Murdoch Rupert Murdoch took his dad, but
00:43:03
that was like a small >> Oh, no. He he I mean he was a rich kid, but he turned his father's
00:43:08
>> Yeah. >> into an empire. >> Empire. Yeah. >> And and and
00:43:13
anyways, this >> anyone involved in media now is basically a billionaire's kid looking to
00:43:19
go to the Oscars and make the family 80% less wealthy. >> Yeah, it's true.
00:43:24
>> And that's what Brmpman did. That's what Sherry Redstone did. She
00:43:27
>> definitely did. >> And that's that's what David Ellison is
00:43:30
about to do. >> Well, he has a lot of money, so he has a lot to lose. He really really really
00:43:34
likes making movies. Scott, >> this company this company is going to be they're going to try to go to AI to cut
00:43:40
re to cut I think and I think you're going to see a lot of AI slop. I think the creative community is going to turn
00:43:45
on them. >> Yeah. >> And I think this is going to be very I would not want to own those bonds right
00:43:50
now unless they're seniors secured in the stack. >> Yeah. Uh, but I think this is going to
00:43:54
be very >> and and of course they're going to get a lot of attention with the news thing
00:43:58
even though it's a smaller part of the empire. Um, you know, they're going to
00:44:02
>> I wouldn't be surprised if they sell it. I I don't I I don't I've never for sure
00:44:06
they're merging CBS and CNN that they have to. They It's economically untenable not to do so. I would hope
00:44:13
they would put Mark Thompson in charge of the whole thing. Um, I think he's a
00:44:17
really good u person and very wellliked. I can tell you it's hair on fire over at
00:44:22
CNN in terms of being I get I get like like covered with CNN. What's happening
00:44:27
Carol? What's happening Karen? I have some knowledge I will say. Uh but they're definitely uh merging um merging
00:44:34
the two of them. There's no other choice for them to do. >> I think they should have CNN anchors on
00:44:38
Survivor, the CNN show. Dana Bash, oh my god, she would so I mean >> win Caitlyn Collins would kill them all.
00:44:46
Don't you think? >> Oh no. I think Dana B I think Dana Bash is the kind of person that would smother
00:44:50
you in your sleep if she needed to. >> Really? I feel like Kayn Collins. Did
00:44:54
you see her like kicking kick in the >> I think there's a very secretary's ass.
00:44:58
>> I think there's a very dark interesting side to Dana. >> Okay. All right. But we know we don't.
00:45:02
>> And I'm here for it. Dana, by the way, no. Jake probably will get gotten.
00:45:06
Anderson of course is so sweet. Um I'm trying to think if there's an outside
00:45:11
person. Bruno. I don't know. There's a lot of people there. There's a lot of
00:45:14
people. I'm I'm going to vote Gayen Collins. You can invite Dana Bash. But
00:45:18
we definitely think uh Anderson and Jake will be will be off will be will be >> I think Far just opens a bar on the
00:45:25
island and says, "I'm done. >> I'm done. >> I'm sick of telling people what's going
00:45:30
to happen." >> Jack rank survivability on an island of CNN anchors. Oh, that's so funny.
00:45:36
>> Yeah. Who wins in Survivor? CNN Survivor. They're literally going to
00:45:39
have to do creative. >> So cool. >> Survivor. The CNN edition. Uh, Scott,
00:45:45
what do you do with Scott Jennings? What do you Where do you put him? >> Oh, he's killed by his own troops.
00:45:51
>> He's like he's they I mean, yeah. No, he's the guy he's the guy they bury they
00:45:57
bury up to his neck in sand and let's let the tide come in slowly. They're like, "Is there a fire ant? Is
00:46:06
there a fire ant hill on the island? We have an idea for Scott." Yes, >> we have Michael Smirkcon leading
00:46:12
Campfire songs at the end of night to make everyone feel good. >> He won't have a bar.
00:46:16
>> We have AC 360, that guy who who substitutes for Anderson. He just has to
00:46:20
walk around with his shirt off. He's hot. Sean, >> he just has to walk around with his
00:46:24
shirt off. I've got it all planned. If Ellison's call me, I take back everything I've said. I have a way to
00:46:31
pay off your debt. Survivor, the CNN edition. >> I'm telling you, Kaitlyn Collins will
00:46:38
take them all down. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come
00:46:42
back, the return of the Burger Wars. This is right near your wheelhouse. Support for this show comes from Harvey
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00:47:38
Scott, we're back with more news. Burger King and McDonald's have some social
00:47:41
media beef. I can't believe I just read that. McDonald's posted a video of its
00:47:46
CEO eating the company's Big Arch uh burger last month. And while he says he
00:47:50
was taking a big bite, the bite was small, he also called it the product. Uh the video went viral because of the
00:47:56
discrepancy. And then on the day of the release of the Big Arch, Burger King posted a video of its president eating a
00:48:02
Whopper burger in a more enthusiastic fashion than the rest of them. There's a
00:48:06
Wendy's one. I think there's a Taco Bell. I don't know. There's so many of
00:48:09
them now. Um and and while it was What did you think very briefly? What did you think of this? It's kind of fascinating.
00:48:16
It really took off the burger eating situation. Funny, stupid. >> Well, what no one wanted to talk about
00:48:23
was >> Mhm. >> There was a CO McDonald's who I think died of colorctal cancer in his late
00:48:27
40s. Um >> Oh, well, >> like I don't Yeah, that that's a real
00:48:32
pickme up story. >> Thanks, Scott. Um, I don't know why I brought that up.
00:48:37
I don't I What do you I could not be less interested in the story other than
00:48:41
to say that >> other than to say that I want I want to buy >> I I've been as as I'm sure you are. I've
00:48:51
been talking to all these presidents, presidential candidates who call me for ideas, which is their way of saying,
00:48:55
"Send me money." >> I'm like, "Not buy a billion doses of of
00:49:00
GOP one uh drug." >> Yeah. Actually, these businesses are under siege. You're absolutely right.
00:49:05
>> Distributed to rural communities. Uh if you want to if you want to solve the
00:49:09
deficit, all roads lead to health care. If we want to reduce health care costs, all roads, in my opinion,
00:49:14
>> lead to GLP1. And that the best investment we could make. I I think I think fast food, by the way, I I got to
00:49:20
be honest. I look forward The only thing I'm the only thing I like about travel
00:49:24
is if I'm at an airport, I grant myself the luxury of eating McDonald's. I have
00:49:28
a general rule. I don't eat fast food or go to strip bars in cities I live in
00:49:31
because that could just go bad places. >> So, but when I'm at the airport, the
00:49:36
McDonald's at Newark is the best McDonald's in the world. >> You like In-N-Out, too. And Shake Shack.
00:49:41
>> Oh, that's not even fast food. That's That's the best meal in the world.
00:49:45
>> It is. You're right. That's literally the best. >> Well, then let me get on this. We're on
00:49:48
food chains. RFK Junior question. What's in Dunkin Donuts products in Massachusetts is not having it. Governor
00:49:53
Mora Healey posted an image with a Dunkin cup saying come and take it. Others are having fun with uh the the
00:49:59
jab on social media saying things like if this administration changes anything that goes into Duncan I will make
00:50:04
January 6 look like a tea party. Um you know it's interesting they're going
00:50:08
after brands like well RFK is such an such a another [ __ ] Um it's it's
00:50:14
interesting because remember when Bloomberg did this with the co with the sugar? It wasn't good. It wasn't a good
00:50:19
minute for him. >> Now the big gulp. What do you what do you think about this? I think Duncan is
00:50:24
not a good thing to go after. I feel like people really like that Dunkin Donuts. They really do.
00:50:30
>> They know it's full of sugar. They're aware. >> America runs on Duncan. Cara, um,
00:50:35
>> look, I I think people have the right to kill themselves. And if they want to do
00:50:39
it slowly with McDonald's and Duncan, that's kind of their opportunity. I
00:50:43
think the government has an obligation to go the other way and provide more education. 70% of Americans are obese or
00:50:49
overweight. It's like 38% are obese. In Japan, it's 4%. And it starts very
00:50:53
early. They have every public school has to have a nutritionist and they are not
00:50:58
allowed to have any processed food and everything has to be fresh in the morning.
00:51:01
>> There's a whole scene in my documentary with me in a Korean school eating their
00:51:05
food. It's astonishing when you see >> and you ask these kids what their
00:51:08
favorite food is. They're like broccoli. >> Yes. They were like, "Oh, this kimchi
00:51:12
here." It was a fermented food. It was miso soup. It was rice. Certainly. It
00:51:18
was It was so good. It was so healthy. It was crazy. and they end up paying 6,000 or $7,000 per consumer on
00:51:24
healthcare and we pay 13,000 folks. Let's do the math. So, I don't like I
00:51:28
don't like demonizing. >> Look, I like McDonald's. I like Dunkin Donuts. I like to think that because of
00:51:35
education early on I I got some, you know, I'm focused on eating the right foods. Also, the reality is fast food is
00:51:43
a function of poverty and that is or or going back to the same income inequality
00:51:48
and that is if you're a single mother, >> the cheapest caloric intake is fast
00:51:52
food. >> It is. >> And people people want to get moral and lecture people about the importance of
00:51:56
cooking at home and cooking with good food. Actually, the the myth is that cooking at home saves you money. No,
00:52:01
it's not. To cook at home with natural ingredients is really expensive. >> It is.
00:52:06
>> And so, >> and also time. A lot of people have two jobs >> or food deserts.
00:52:10
>> Yeah. >> Uh but again, I'm I I've said this before. I think the most transformative
00:52:15
technology over the next five or 10 years is not AI. I think it's GLP1. But >> um love McDonald's. Think people should
00:52:21
have the right to kill themselves fast or slow if they want. >> But I think a really good investment
00:52:26
would be giving people enough money and enough education that they want to and can afford to eat well.
00:52:31
>> Yeah. But I have to say I wouldn't go up against Mara Healey. I would not if I
00:52:35
were you, RFK. She's a tough nut. She was a big basketball player. I don't
00:52:38
know if you know that. She was a very good one. Um anyway, uh we'll see what
00:52:42
happen, right? That one. >> Yeah, she's great. But it's really interesting that that these these I have
00:52:47
to say some of the brands on social media are really interesting. Um and some of them are better than others.
00:52:53
Wendy's does an amazing job, for example, online. >> Well, you know what Peter Pan's favorite
00:52:57
place to eat out is? >> Where where is >> Wendy's? Oh god, I can't believe you have a dirty
00:53:04
joke about Wendy's. Oh, thank God. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay,
00:53:12
Scott. Um, let's hear a prediction. I have something very quickly to say in the prediction department. I if for
00:53:18
people who didn't notice, there was a story uh again on uh bots again about problems with wrongful deaths and
00:53:25
suicides. This time it's Google with Gemini AI chatbot coached a man towards
00:53:30
suicide. And it is the story is devastating. This is an adult, not a ch not a young person, not someone
00:53:37
underage, but uh it's still just as devastating what it did and what it told
00:53:41
him to do and it made him go to places and look for things in order to find a robot to put this digital girlfriend
00:53:48
into. Um, I have to say I predict some really significant legislation around this in a way that is probably going to
00:53:57
be too reactive and at the same time um, uh, it necessary because of the way these companies are conducting their
00:54:04
their chat bots that interact with people on a personal level and they have done nothing to to rein them in. Um, and
00:54:11
so I think there's going to be a flood of things around how we interact with
00:54:16
technology, uh, that's going to be bipartisan and pretty ugly for the tech companies. Go ahead. I've been talking
00:54:22
about this for years, but I think >> Yeah. And I didn't mean to make light at
00:54:25
fast food that there was that mass shooting at a fast food restaurant where the guy was screaming, "You've ordered
00:54:29
your last McRib." And then one of the workers said, "Sir, this is a Wendy's."
00:54:33
>> Oh my god, >> that's so wrong, Cara. >> It's so wrong.
00:54:37
>> That's so wrong. >> Either way. Anyway, what's your prediction?
00:54:40
>> You know, I want to take some license here and I wanted to talk I wanted to do
00:54:45
kind of a a fail in a win. And that is um I just I watched I'm one of my living
00:54:54
heroes is uh Madame uh Secretary Clinton and it's the only person I've ever
00:55:01
canvas for. And I saw what I saw uh when I saw I watched her entire testimony. I just thought the level of sexism
00:55:13
was so [ __ ] insane. Um and that is um so first off, when is the last time a man was asked repeatedly to explain
00:55:27
his wife's behavior or actions? and the the absurdity of holding wives accountable for husbands.
00:55:35
And here's what's so incredibly [ __ ] up about this. We live in a world
00:55:38
>> they ought to responsible for you. So go ahead. >> We live in a world where a woman with
00:55:42
her own 50-year career in public service, senator, secretary of state, presidential candidate gets hauled in
00:55:48
front of a committee and asked to explain what her husband did, not what you did, what he did. And also there's
00:55:55
this implicit assumption that like and why didn't you stop him? And we've seen
00:56:00
the same [ __ ] for decades. When a powerful man does something wrong, we turn to his wife and ask, "Where were
00:56:06
you? Why didn't you know? Why didn't you leave him? Why are you still with him?"
00:56:10
>> She's often >> and we never ask the inverse. When a woman in power screws up, we don't haul
00:56:16
her husband in and ask him to explain her choices. >> We don't demand he account for her
00:56:21
behavior. Yeah, >> we don't ask why did you stay with her >> because implicit in all this is this
00:56:28
>> we do ask that but go ahead >> implicit in all this is this assumption
00:56:32
that men are autonomous agents responsible for their own actions which is right whereas women are responsible
00:56:38
for everyone's actions including their husbands the double standard is staggering if if if Hillary had left
00:56:46
Bill after the Lewinsky scandal she'd have been called a calculating opportunist who who abandoned him and
00:56:52
that it was politically convenient. If she stays with him, she's complicit in
00:56:56
everything um he's ever done. So, I just think it's insane that they kept asking her
00:57:03
questions when he was testifying the next [ __ ] day. Well, ask him. >> She handled it beautifully.
00:57:08
>> Yeah, I agree. So now just to to piss off the Brooklyn Sandled or Birkenstock
00:57:14
crowd on the other side, there is absolutely a double standard for for women when it comes to asking
00:57:23
them to explain obvious discretions or conflicts of interest. Watching the exchange, basically saying, "Are you
00:57:30
having sex with are you in an extrammarital?" And I I'm gonna be clear. I'm not judging them on having an
00:57:36
extrammarital affair or having sex. When you're having a relationship with your
00:57:41
number two who is unqualified, that is reason to be fired at any organization, any corporation, much less
00:57:49
a cabinet position. And and what the exchange reminded me of was how selectively we apply accountability and
00:57:56
politics. And as someone who considers them a feminist, that means you're subject to the same opportunities. And
00:58:00
also, you're entitled to the same amount of [ __ ] as everybody else. And when male
00:58:05
politicians face questions about personal conduct, the expectation is clear. Answer the [ __ ] question. And
00:58:12
when they dodge, the press and the opposition usually press harder until they deny it or or admit it.
00:58:18
>> Tony Gonzalez, did that just happen? >> Evasion becomes the story. But when a
00:58:22
woman, Secretary Gnome, respond to a direct question about a relationship, calling it total garbage and declining
00:58:28
to actually say no, the moment largely passed without the same relentless followup.
00:58:34
>> Yeah, Gonzalez is still in the news for >> because of this double standard of being
00:58:37
accused of [ __ ] shaming. This is sexism the other way. If a male cabinet secretary responded that way to a
00:58:43
similar question, the headlines would reads would read refuses to deny and the questioning wouldn't stop. So there is
00:58:50
sexism asking women to take responsibility for their husbands, but at the same time there's a double
00:58:56
standard of a lack of accountability amongst women for the same types of things where the press and and other
00:59:03
lawmakers would not let up. God >> lawmakers I know I think lawmakers did did not let up. I think they said it
00:59:11
>> it's over. It's done. >> They are not they are doing their job.
00:59:14
They did ask and they asked several times. say yes. >> If this had been Bill Clinton or another
00:59:22
media until they clarified their comments. >> I'm going to say you're right about the
00:59:25
media. I'd say I think they they asked as hard as they could and she just refused. She went she just
00:59:33
>> I think I think they should have said the following and it's easy to pick when
00:59:36
I think one of them senators should have said >> you are having an inappropriate
00:59:40
relationship with your number two who is unqualified and this puts the nation at
00:59:45
risk. I would have backed her into a [ __ ] corner. >> That's fair that they could have done it
00:59:49
a different way. You're right. >> So I'll move on. Um real quick my
00:59:53
prediction yeah >> is no. And that is Dario Amodi has given license and permission to CEOs to say
01:00:01
no. >> And in the next 30 days, you are going to see a raft of CEOs find their
01:00:07
testicles and start saying no to this administration. >> No. No. There's going to be a lot of
01:00:12
that. I agree with you 100%. Um, okay. Well, speaking of yes, we will be in Minnesota, everybody. Just so you know,
01:00:19
we're going to be there on Sunday night and we're very excited and we're very
01:00:23
excited to do this show. It'll be a pivot show and at the same time we're
01:00:26
going to talk a lot about Resist and Unsubscribe and Scott's got some tricks
01:00:30
up his sleeve. We've got some special guests, secret guests. Uh we're sold
01:00:33
out. Um so it's not like we're selling it, but we're we're very excited to do
01:00:37
it and raise money for a legal organization that helps immigrants there. Um anyway, we want to hear from
01:00:43
you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
01:00:48
to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on ProfG
01:00:54
Markets, Scott spoke with big short legend Steve Iceman about why he thinks the war in Iran is unlikely to rattle
01:01:01
markets and why the bigger risk investors should be watching again is AI. Let's listen to a clip.
01:01:07
>> Everything that's being created by people who are doing AI has value. The
01:01:11
question is how much value? So much money is being spent. Are the returns that these companies are
01:01:20
going to generate, are they going to justify those returns? I suspect not. If I had to stake my life on it, I'd say
01:01:26
we'd have some kind of replay where, you know, in the internet bubble, the first generation of internet companies
01:01:34
basically failed. And it was the second generation of internet companies that that took us on to glory in terms of the
01:01:41
value of the internet. >> Oh, very good. Very sensible. That makes sense. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:01:47
listening uh to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week with an
01:01:53
episode, as I said, taped live in Minneapolis. Scott, I can't believe we did it. I mean, we just thought about it
01:01:58
on the show and then we made it. So, >> yeah, we had an idea and it's happened.