00:00:00
I'm glad they got these pictures of this guy. At the same time, this is an edge
00:00:04
case. They're they're keeping your video that which I which everyone thought they
00:00:08
were doing and they said they weren't. >> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:18
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. >> And I'm Scott Galloway.
00:00:22
>> Scott, we just did a great on with Cara Swisser about resist and unsubscribe,
00:00:27
but I'd like >> you have another podcast. Did I find that out? This >> dude, you were quite substantive. Where
00:00:32
are we right now? Give us a quick update. >> Uh, it lulled Tuesday and Wednesday. It
00:00:36
appears to have come back today because Chelsea Handler, who reached out to me, posted something of all the things she
00:00:43
was unsubscribing to. And just to give you an example of how much impact one person can have. Uh, I went on AI, I
00:00:50
went on to my site analytics. I think she just that one video she did on Instagram, that one post is going to
00:00:55
inspire 6 to 7,000 unique site visits. conversion of 5% that's 300 people unsubscribing average of two platforms
00:01:04
600 unsubscribes average 200 that's $12,000 times or excuse me $120,000 times 10 so
00:01:12
$1.2 $2 million in market cap getting taken out of these companies because of one Insta Post. So,
00:01:17
>> Right. Exactly. And, you know, I'm going to see her uh tomorrow night, I think.
00:01:22
Um, tomorrow night. She's here in DC. We should get them all to do things like
00:01:26
that. Let's let's reach into the celebs, we know, and get them to do. >> I'm going to bug them all.
00:01:32
>> Okay. >> I like it. Thank you. >> Yeah. If they do that and put even just
00:01:35
one thing up, it matters and it's an easy thing for a lot of them. And they >> what people don't realize about about
00:01:40
economic protests, the most famous one was a Montgomery bus strike. It wasn't
00:01:44
the one cinematic moment. It was it was um an organization of thousands of car pools over the course of a year.
00:01:50
>> Yeah. >> So it takes it takes a while, but >> any individual who subs unsubscribes
00:01:56
from Open AI OpenAI right now is taking $10,000 out of their market valuation, >> which is great. And that
00:02:02
>> and there's a substitute, the free the free chat GBT >> and also all kinds of other free
00:02:07
services. Gemini, all the others, you don't have to pay for it necessarily. And by the way, you can use things for
00:02:13
free. You're taking stuff from them, right, without paying them. Like paying
00:02:17
is the issue is what you pay for. So just keep that in mind. Everyone's like,
00:02:20
"Oh, now I can't use Google." I'm like, "No, it's free."
00:02:24
>> Well, just just to give an example how how these this unsubscribes to these
00:02:27
recurring revenue tech platforms or tech companies, T-Mobile just had an earnings
00:02:33
call. They were projected to add 992,000 new subscribers. they added 962. So 30,000 fewer because 30,000 people
00:02:42
didn't show up for subscription. So not only do these do these actions punch
00:02:46
above their weight class in terms of economic impact, if you take if Sam Alman is grows his subscriptions 7 12%
00:02:55
versus 8% month, he's not going to close his $850 billion round. >> Yep.
00:03:01
>> So this is literally this is the string. If you if if you don't have the time or
00:03:06
the energy to do some of the very other important work, whether it's protests or
00:03:09
or or calling your congressman, you can have a massive impact by unsubscribing right now.
00:03:15
>> Yeah, you can. Now, speaking of which, and something the administration does
00:03:18
care about, Attorney General Pam Bondi, who we'll talk about more in a minute,
00:03:21
was testifying in front of the the Jan, crazy Jan, was testifying in front of Congress about Epstein on Wednesday. She
00:03:28
made it clear she'd prefer to be talking about other things. What did she zero in
00:03:31
on? Let's listen. Dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. You're a
00:03:37
great stock trader as I hear rascin. The Dow is over $50,000 right now. The S&P at almost 7,000
00:03:46
and the NASDAQ smashing records. Americans 401ks and retirement savings are booming. That's what we should be
00:03:56
talking about. >> Well, she's not the Treasury Secretary, but this is what shows what they care
00:04:00
about. They really do. the fact that it was inappropriate to bring this up in here given they were talking about
00:04:05
victims sexual uh uh abuse victims, but nonetheless, this is what floats their boat is is this money, right? And so,
00:04:14
let's also listen to a great idea one of our listeners sent in. >> Every child of an elderly person should
00:04:21
also go through all of their parents subscriptions. I went through my mother's this weekend and was able to
00:04:28
take $125 off of some bills by unsubscribing subscriptions she didn't even know she
00:04:35
had. >> That is a great idea. I do that with my mom all the time and I'm trying very
00:04:39
hard to take the New York Post off of her subscriptions. >> Two years after my mother died, I found
00:04:44
that Geico was still taking $220 out of her bank account a month for car insurance.
00:04:50
>> Wow. Crazy. if you don't, and I've used this example before, when I unsubscribed
00:04:54
from AT&T, went to Noble, I'm saving about 20 or 30 bucks a month, but in
00:04:58
addition, I found out >> I had four accounts with AT&T for Blackberries and iPads, which have been
00:05:03
in landfills for years, cuz I never went on and unsubscribed them. And even though they know they're not getting a
00:05:08
GPS signal from these things, and they could send you an email saying, "Hey,
00:05:11
you know, you're paying 70 bucks a month >> for something you haven't used in 5
00:05:15
years, >> you're going to save money. It's these companies are very good at figuring out
00:05:19
a way to get you to subscribe and get you to forget that it's coming that this
00:05:23
money is coming out of your pocket every month. >> Yeah. You know, there's a couple
00:05:25
services and I don't have the names to show where your subscriptions are and to
00:05:29
unsubscribe, but this is a better way to do it. But then you can use those services to find them all over the
00:05:34
place. You'd be surprised of what you're I found an AT&T thing. I was still from
00:05:38
when Apple first had the iPhone when they had unlimited if you remember. Anyway, uh it's a great thing to do.
00:05:44
Keep going. We're going to do more. We're gonna every little thing we can
00:05:47
pull on. The administration cares about this issue. Uh it's the only thing left
00:05:51
is the DAO at this point. The fallout from the >> What's that $50,000? She's the [ __ ]
00:05:56
attorney general. She clearly knows nothing about economics. What is she talking about? She called the Dow.
00:06:02
>> I know. Also, also calling a representative Rascin. Who does [ __ ] does she think she is? She's in his
00:06:08
house. She's in his house. He calls him Rascin. I'm going to call you Galloway
00:06:12
when I use your house. Hey, Galloway. Anyway, the fallout from the Epstein files continues. Speaking of which, as I
00:06:18
mentioned, crazy Attorney General Pam Bondi, who really needs to be medicated, testified before the House Judiciary
00:06:25
Committee on Wednesday, and things got heated. She soiled herself multiple times. Um, Bondie sparred with
00:06:31
Democrats, not just Democrats, over DH's handling of the Epstein files and refused to apologize to survivors. She
00:06:37
wouldn't even look at them there. It turned out she's never talked to them.
00:06:40
She also clashed with uh GOP Congressman Thomas Massie. Massie criticized Bondi and the DOJ for failing to redact
00:06:46
victim's names while blacking out the names of businessmen uh businessman Les
00:06:50
Wexner. Let's listen to the exchange. >> Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was
00:06:56
added back >> within 40 minutes of me catching you redhanded. >> Red hand. There was one redaction out
00:07:06
and we invited you in. We This guy has Trump derangement syndrome. He needs to get You're a failed politician.
00:07:14
Uh really crazy crazy craziness I have to say. I just don't know what to say.
00:07:19
She's What is wrong with her? Like ser speaking of derangement syndrome. Like
00:07:25
honestly I don't know what she was doing up there. I know it's an audience of one
00:07:29
but he can't even find this impressive. It's grotesque. I mean I don't know.
00:07:35
>> Yeah. It really feels like we have >> wheels are coming off. I mean it's it's
00:07:39
it's a shame because it's just so >> it's a serious issue >> weird and it's the attorney general
00:07:46
making a mockery of the institution and just u no no decorum but for I'm curious what
00:07:54
you thought about the hearings but the moment that I found really chilling was when I think it was representative
00:08:02
Jaipal had um some of the the survivors uh stand up and asked how many of them have
00:08:10
reached out to the DOJ >> to provide evidence or input, but all these survivors stood up.
00:08:16
>> Yeah. >> And it was clear they've reached out to the DOJ and the DOJ has um has is has
00:08:22
ignored them. And you thought, let me get this, the Department of Justice >> investigating what is arguably may go
00:08:28
down as the crime of the century to date >> and survivors and people with direct
00:08:33
knowledge about what happened or what didn't happen. They could also, quite frankly, they might exonerate some
00:08:38
people. >> Right. Exactly. >> They don't want to talk to them. >> Right. Right. And she wouldn't look at
00:08:42
them. That was another moment. She wouldn't turn around. She wouldn't do
00:08:46
it. She This woman is insane. I just I don't She a crazy one. She's like, it
00:08:52
was so strange. And And I know this audience of one they always do, but in this case, I was like, "Wow, you people
00:08:57
are desperate and terrified of what's coming next for you." You know, I
00:09:01
thought Massie was effective. I thought Becca Balant was effective. I thought Gipol's effective, Rascin, um I thought
00:09:08
they all one of the things someone who works there said, "How do you think it
00:09:11
went?" And I said, "The only problem with this kind of thing was you lay down
00:09:17
with pigs. The only one only people that like wrestling with pigs are the pigs, right? If you get in the mud with them."
00:09:23
But I thought they rel they relatively handle it well. It's just that the the
00:09:27
craziness is what gets attention and not the victims, right? It becomes a ridiculous circus. And on some level,
00:09:33
what was interesting is Fox didn't show it, right? They they they they keep they're obsessed with the Nancy Nancy
00:09:39
Guthrie kidnapping, which is a terrible thing, too. But they're not even airing
00:09:43
it. They don't want to see show you the crazy like and any normal person looking
00:09:47
at this would be like, "What? Honey, you need some you need some therapy like
00:09:52
stat kind of thing." And you're you know, and what happened to you? So, I
00:09:56
thought that was it was a really interesting This Epste thing isn't going away, Pam. I'm sorry. It's just not now
00:10:01
cuz it's so very clear that you didn't do your job and neither did people
00:10:05
before you, by the way. But guess what? >> It's a valid point. >> You're in the chair now. I don't really
00:10:10
>> It's her It's her DOJ. >> It's her DOJ >> and her boss her boss is mentioned
00:10:15
>> in the Epstein files more times than Jesus is mentioned in the Bible or the
00:10:19
term meth is mentioned in Breaking Bad over eight seasons. And I felt like every day, every time yesterday, she
00:10:25
>> she claimed that, you know, the president had been the most quote unquote transparent president. When she
00:10:30
uses the term transparent, I think some somewhere there's a thesaurus filing for
00:10:34
protective custody. It's just >> why are you laughing at me was just and al just it's it was so weird. It's
00:10:43
so weird. It's so culty. It's so strange. One of the things I do think is
00:10:46
effective is a lot of these Congress people are going in and seeing unredacted versions which are very
00:10:50
upsetting. um >> when they come out and they look like they've seen a ghost.
00:10:54
>> I know. Even Cynthia Lumis who was I didn't know it was there now. Whoa.
00:10:59
Whoa. Folks, like Cynthia Lumis, I'm so glad she's leaving politics. But I have
00:11:04
to say, even someone like that who literally puts in the least effort possible. Um same thing. They're looking
00:11:10
like, "Oh my [ __ ] god, you're kidding me here." And you know, nobody's
00:11:14
>> I got to be honest. I didn't I didn't realize it was this bad. >> Yeah. when the more information you you
00:11:20
read about this >> Yeah. >> in terms of the number of victims. >> Yeah.
00:11:25
>> In terms of how many people were involved, uh how many >> how many opportunities there were to
00:11:31
stop it. >> Yeah. >> And it just gets the web keeps getting deeper and uglier.
00:11:36
>> Yes. And the lies like when commerce secretary Howard Letic was on Capital
00:11:39
Hill this week as well. He told the Senate committee he and his family had lunch on Epstein's island in 2012, but
00:11:44
insisted he'd not have a relationship with him. Of course, this was he had given this sort of haha interview with
00:11:50
one of these right-wing outfits where he said, "I never in that." >> He was indignant. I was disgusted by him
00:11:56
and I said, "We're never we're going to have no contact with him again." And
00:12:00
here's the thing. >> He took his kids. I I I took my four kids and their nannies and I got all the
00:12:05
kids off the island. That by >> But this is the thing. It's not It's
00:12:09
It's not It's usually not the the infraction itself. It's the cover up. If
00:12:13
he had said, >> why'd he say the first thing? That's >> But if he had just said right up front,
00:12:18
he's a neighbor. He had powerful friends. I didn't do the diligence I should have. I went with me and my kids
00:12:23
to his island once cuz it sounded like fun. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Poor judgment, but go along, get
00:12:29
along. >> Instead of trying to wrap yourself in some sort of indignance that you
00:12:33
immedately smelled a rat and you're lying >> and you decided to >> I mean, if he just come clean in the
00:12:40
beginning, said like, "Yeah, it was bad judgment. took my kids to his island,
00:12:43
had a lunch. I'd heard he was a big philanthropist and who knows maybe it was okay. All right. Bad judgment. Move
00:12:51
along. But it again, it's the cover. >> He had to take a laugh. He had to take a
00:12:56
I'm so pure laugh. And he that's cuz he's a [ __ ] Let's let's be clear. This
00:13:00
guy's a [ __ ] And people are asking for him to resign. He really is a liar. He's
00:13:03
a liar and a [ __ ] And it doesn't mean he had to do anything, but he's a liar
00:13:08
and a [ __ ] The one that one that's interesting under scrutiny is entertainment executive Casey Wasserman.
00:13:14
Chapel Rowan and other artists have cut ties with Wasserman as is their right after latest file show exchanged emails
00:13:19
was Julian Maxwell seemed to have some kind of relationship with her probably extramarital who knows who serves as
00:13:26
chairman of the LA Olympics organized appears to be holding on to that role. They're backing him. There were other
00:13:31
names floated to take his place. He let me be clear for people not letting him out but it was 2003 before any of this
00:13:38
was known. He may have been able to pick it up. That's different. Um but uh but
00:13:43
this was well before the first conviction, the first um sweetheart deal that Epstein did with in Florida. Um so
00:13:52
he's even even he's under scrutiny and people are cutting ties. And again, this
00:13:57
is this artist right. They don't like the cut of his jib. That's perfectly
00:14:00
fine. In his case, there's just the the blast zone of this is so far right. It's
00:14:06
really >> it's so indiscriminate. And again, I go to the following. >> Yeah.
00:14:10
>> If we had an institution we could trust, including the Department of Justice and
00:14:14
the institutions that actually assembled these files, if they could go through it
00:14:17
and go, "Okay, there are three circles here. There's people who either engaged
00:14:22
in provided infrastructure or trafficked and facilitated crimes, we are going to
00:14:27
release those names in the form of grand jury indictments, and we're going to go
00:14:31
after these people." That's the headline here. That's what the Department of
00:14:34
Justice isn't supposed to ruin people's careers. It's supposed to create an
00:14:37
incentive system where people follow the law by prosecuting criminals and exonerating people who are not guilty.
00:14:43
That is what they are there to do. And then the second circle, and this is a harder one, is okay, if a cabinet, if a
00:14:50
cabinet member has clearly lied under their testimony or under oath, should they release that information? Didn't
00:14:56
didn't commit a crime. This is Howard Lutnik. Should the president, who has not so far been accused of a crime, if
00:15:02
he's mentioned in this thing 6,000 times, should we release that information? I think that is a really
00:15:08
important point. The biggest circle, quite frankly, is go I have seen on Tik Tok and on Instagram people talking
00:15:16
about models, how they talked about going to a museum with Jeffrey Epstein and we should no longer uh have anything
00:15:24
to do. They're trying to shame all these people and it's like, you know what,
00:15:27
folks, that's just pure gossip. And unfortunately, the ring light shaming of
00:15:33
all these courageous, virtuous people when they're behind a a keyboard and have much higher standards for other
00:15:38
people than they do for themselves, that is distracting from what the Department
00:15:42
of Justice is supposed to do. And that has put pedophiles in prison. >> Yeah, I would urge people to read. It
00:15:48
was really interesting. you know, Kathy Katherine Rumler, who's the the legal
00:15:52
head of Goldman, you know, she was she had a lot of emails and very chummy kind of emails with Epstein going on for a
00:15:59
while. Um, I thought Bill Cohen did a great job talking about why she was in that relationship and most of it was in
00:16:08
fact she was professional. She's looking for work, right? And that's a whole
00:16:12
different >> guy who knows rich guys who can send me a for wealth management.
00:16:15
>> Yes, exactly. So I would urge people to read that and again one or two of them
00:16:20
and and one or two places she when he said oh I it was only prostitution she goes that's justice abusive Jeffrey like
00:16:27
she she unfortunately he kept saying there are gifts there was a business relationship I thought it was it was
00:16:32
actually a really um complex situation that made me think god if she was a guy and she did like golf with him she'd get
00:16:41
off because she was a woman was vaguely flirty kind of she wasn't like it was it
00:16:47
was a great piece cuz it made me rethink I was like okay like not great judgment
00:16:53
right should have known better should have stopped talking to him after the first thing um but didn't business it
00:17:01
was just interesting it was it made me think a lot I recommend Bill Cohen's column in pock and I thought this was
00:17:08
this is his area of expertise in finance and I thought okay I got this is why there she was he was trying to explain
00:17:14
why they haven't let her go, right? So, I thought that was interesting. Anyway,
00:17:18
um speaking of uh um power, six Republicans joined Democrats in the House on Wednesday to vote for a
00:17:23
resolution aimed at ending President Trump's tariffs on Canada that it's a
00:17:27
symbolic gesture, even if it clears the Senate. Uh Trump would veto it, but that
00:17:31
didn't stop him from making threats. Trump posted on True Social, that any Republican who votes against the
00:17:35
terrorists would seriously uh suffer consequences come election time, and that includes primaries. Uh I think he's
00:17:41
losing the grip, as they say. What what do you think? >> Well, there's some new data that shows
00:17:46
that about So, the initial notion was the tariffs would uh mostly be paid by either
00:17:52
corporations, sort of a populist thing, or the uh uh importer or excuse me, the exporter themselves, the the country
00:18:01
would absorb it or whoever was sending the products. It ends up and there's finally analysis 94%
00:18:07
of the costs have been borne by US consumers and then the other 6% have been borne by companies either deciding
00:18:12
to take a bit of a hit or the the importer themselves or excuse me the exporter themselves reducing their
00:18:19
prices. You have about 15% of the economy is um imports. It they thought the tariffs average
00:18:27
around 20% so that's 3%. some managed to get out of it. So, call it a 2% to the
00:18:32
economy, but the problem is it's an unnecessary 2% hit to the economy. To be
00:18:37
fair, it hasn't had the catastrophic effect a lot of people thought it was going to have, but in a weird way.
00:18:44
>> Well, if Yeah, it's just >> I feel it myself and the shelves are
00:18:48
emptier. It's weird. I never have noticed that. >> Well, but why reduce people's prosperity
00:18:52
by 2% for no real reason? It doesn't cause growth. It doesn't cause innovation. And all it's doing is is is
00:18:58
urging or reconfiguring the supply chain >> around the United States. The EU is
00:19:02
entering into an agreement with Merkasaur. There all kinds of new trade zones being opened up such that people
00:19:08
are not as reliant on the US. And a weird a weird thing though is that if his tariffs are overturned
00:19:16
in by the Supreme Court or by the Congress, I actually think the markets will rip. So, in a weird way, it could
00:19:23
end up it could end up helping him if if these things are turned back. I think the markets will scream if these tariffs
00:19:31
are found to be uh illegal. >> Yeah. Well, we'll see. And although apparently he's got all these plans to
00:19:36
put other kinds of fees in place to take their place that are that he that he'll
00:19:41
have to go back to court and stop him for those. He's doubling down. This is
00:19:45
something he's talked about for years. So, I don't know if he's going to back
00:19:47
off so quickly and take the >> take the victory here. He'd like to take
00:19:52
the L. Honestly, >> I don't know. No, they you know that lunatic Peter Navaro talks about him
00:19:58
like that we have a whole bunch of things to happen if the Supreme Court >> overturns this. What's taking the
00:20:04
Supreme Court so long by the way? Anyway, uh we'll see what happens. I do think on the broader sense that there's
00:20:09
lots more um Republicans willing to push back because of their own political survival is not linked to Donald Trump
00:20:16
as much anymore. The other thing is it looks like they may lose control of the House.
00:20:20
>> That's right. Another person's resigning, right? >> So, you know, they're one they're one
00:20:25
sick person away from losing having the Democrats in control. So, it's a really
00:20:30
interesting time. He doesn't have the the power is slipping away and that's
00:20:33
why he screamy Pam or this nonsense and stuff. So we'll see more of that I think. Um okay Scott let's go on a quick
00:20:40
break. When we come back social media on trial very important case support for pivot comes from anthropic.
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AI, go to corweave.com/refor. Scott, we're back with more news. A landmark social media trial got underway
00:22:57
this week with Meta and YouTube accused of deliberately designing their platforms to addict young users. You
00:23:02
think the lawsuit is the first of more than500 similar cases to go to trial. This is something that's been building
00:23:07
for a long time. The plaintiff's lawyer is arguing that his client, a 20-year-old woman, got hooked on these
00:23:12
apps as a kid because they were like digital casinos delivering dopamine hits. Instagram head Adam Msari uh
00:23:18
testified on Wednesday that he doesn't think users can be quote clinically addicted to the app. Adam Msari is not a
00:23:24
doctor, just so you know. I can't believe he said that. It was kind of a a mistake on his part. Meanwhile, and also
00:23:30
he's wrong. Meanwhile, YouTube is arguing it's not social media, it's an
00:23:34
entertainment platform like Netflix and it's not addictive. That is also not
00:23:38
true. The jury, anyone who has kids knows that. Uh it's very different from Netflix. The jury trial, I mean, it's
00:23:44
become more like Netflix recently, but it's also an addictive situation. The
00:23:48
jury trial is expected to last six to eight weeks with Mark Zuckerberg and YouTube's Neil Mo expected to testify.
00:23:54
This is a really important trial. The big names are coming out and talking about an issue you and I have talked
00:23:59
about for years. Um, what what are the actual effects and who is responsible for creating an addictive product? And
00:24:07
I'm sorry, Adam. I'm not a doctor either, but any fool will tell you it's
00:24:11
anyone, not fool, any person will tell you it's addictive. Anyone who uses it.
00:24:15
Um, and you design and there's so much proof that you've designed it like a
00:24:19
casino or a cigarette or whatever it happens to be. Thoughts? >> Well, imagine you're 14 and someone you
00:24:26
go into your room and if you were like me, your mom wasn't home until 6:00 or 7
00:24:30
p.m. and you're home alone. >> Gilligans Island >> and yeah, that's it was Bugs Bunny and
00:24:34
Gilligans Island and I Dream of Genie for me. But what if in the corner there was a casino? What if there was an
00:24:41
arcade? What if there was? What if there was unlimited music? What if there And then you say, "No, no, no.
00:24:50
Study. What if there was the high school cafeteria where I could say something mean about someone else or someone could
00:24:57
say something mean about me and all I could think about the rest of the day and night was what they were saying
00:25:00
about me?" That the high school cafeteria never never left. And it ends up that about 6% of teenagers are
00:25:08
clinically addicted or or meet the clinical definition of addicted to either drugs or alcohol. But under that
00:25:15
same those same standards, 24% are addicted to social media. And just some data, the average American team teen
00:25:22
spends 4.8 hours a day using social media. 16% of teens or one in six use Tik Tok almost constantly. 15% for
00:25:30
YouTube, 13% for Snap, 12% for Instagram. And roughly half of all teens report feeling addicted to social media.
00:25:38
And you say, well, okay, fine. What's the impact? Teens who are in the highest
00:25:43
use group expressed two times more suicidal intent or self harm than those in the lowest use group. And the highest
00:25:50
use group also express poor uh body image at three times more than the lowest use group. And it typically takes
00:25:58
a society or it takes America 20 to 30 years to respond to really negative externalities. Took us 30 years with
00:26:06
tobacco. It took us 20 years with opiates. And if you think about social going on mobile in 2012, it 20 years is
00:26:14
probably the right number. I think when I'm I mean parents always ask me what
00:26:17
should I do with my kids and I say how old are your kids? And if they say three or five, I'm like, we'll have it figured
00:26:21
out by then because the data here is so overwhelming and we're up against uh
00:26:28
intrigence and people trying to delay an opuscate similar to those tobacco executives and they have more money and
00:26:33
they're more skilled this time. But eventually the tide, the tsunami of parental concern here, you know,
00:26:41
understandable parental concern is washing over all this [ __ ] where so I think in I would say I mean you have
00:26:48
entire countries now age gating. Look at what Australia is doing. I think another
00:26:53
two to three years I'm hopeful the landscape's going to be much different
00:26:57
for children. The the remedies would be warning sign there's lots of remedies
00:27:01
like with cigarettes peopleating age gating warning signals um they check ages legal liability the age checking is
00:27:10
harder >> what every what every other substance company and manufacturers media company
00:27:15
is subject to >> they've got to be kidding you know there's so much you they have so many
00:27:20
emails of them talking about this that's the problem for Adam is sorry to say
00:27:24
this he doesn't think it's clinically addictive come on Adam, come on. We all
00:27:28
think it is. We The problem is every adult knows this in their bones, right? It's like
00:27:33
>> cuz we're addicted. >> We're addicted. Like, we are. It's a
00:27:36
problem. You cannot put it down. And it is different from television. It is very
00:27:40
different. And television. Listen, Gilligans Island's addictive enough. I can't believe I watched all that [ __ ]
00:27:45
But you can walk away from it in a way. You cannot walk away from this. It's I
00:27:50
find myself I'm I have to throw the phone across the room, right? Sometimes I'm like, "Put it down." Um, you know,
00:27:57
every Amanda, same thing. We just It's really interesting. And sometimes I think about it. I'm like, I like news
00:28:03
and I'm read I'm mostly reading news, but I don't stop. That's the difference.
00:28:07
I put down magazines. I put down newspapers. And I love news. So, this is the all this stuff as it gets out, as
00:28:14
you see the emails in inside the company talking about it. And especially early on, they knew just what they were doing.
00:28:21
And um perhaps they weren't meaning to be malevolent at the beginning, but it's
00:28:26
malevolent for many young people and the impact is huge. And then they just keep
00:28:30
doubling down with AI relationships and synthetic relationships and everything else. This is the time has come round at
00:28:37
last for these companies. We'll see how well how how this trial does, but it's
00:28:41
going to it's going to just uncover more and more about what they knew. very much
00:28:45
like the cigarette companies. >> When you have hundreds of billions of dollars in shareholder value, trillions
00:28:50
of dollars of shareholder value, hundred billions in revenue, millions of some of
00:28:53
the brightest people in the world, and trillions of data points, all trying, all aiming towards one thing. How do we
00:28:58
get people to spend one more second every day on social and less time somewhere else, whether it's sports,
00:29:08
friends, studying, sleep, and they're winning. And young people, especially young men, who have this tremendous fall
00:29:13
in their brains where they're constantly dopah hungry, they're up against an
00:29:17
indomitable foe. And then the other >> like sugar. It's like sugar. It's the
00:29:22
same thing. It's the same. >> And then there's two or three. But your
00:29:25
kid your kid can take, you know, a 10 pound bag of sugar into his bedroom with him.
00:29:30
>> The the the other kid my kid could, but go ahead. >> The other two things it is a cumulative
00:29:36
effect that I think have really hurt our youth are one. I do think parents have some culpability here and that is we
00:29:44
have decided that our job is to clear out all borders and obstacles for our kids. We engage in concierge and
00:29:49
bulldozer parenting and by the time the kid gets to college he or she has never had a sea or a disappointment
00:29:55
>> and we've created this princess and pee um generation with good intentions. We
00:30:00
thought we were doing our kids a good thing. And then something that doesn't
00:30:03
get talked a lot about but I absolutely think is adding up to a generation that is at a disadvantage and that is if you
00:30:11
are 21 since the age of 10 the person you are supposed to look up to most in the world is Donald Trump. So
00:30:21
performative verality, coarseness and cruelty, >> online scams, >> crypto, doubling down on lies. This has
00:30:31
been the role model >> as kids brains are being wired during puberty. And no matter who is president
00:30:38
or what you think of the office, >> president is the person that millions of
00:30:44
young Americans look to as the as the ultimate of success in American values. So what have we done? We've raised a
00:30:51
generation of kids who are dopah hungry and their primary role model maybe with a close second the richest man in the
00:30:58
world >> the greatest control of all time >> are exhibiting values that are very
00:31:04
>> I mean and what do you know these 21 year olds are not it's shocking it's
00:31:09
shocking what good people they are what they have to deal with >> I would agree I think they do resist
00:31:14
more than you think and actually there are a lot of parents one of the things I spent a lot of time doing with my kids
00:31:19
whenever like can Can you go get this from me? Can you talk to that person if they wanted something? I'm like, you
00:31:23
need to do it. Like you I you figure it out has became one of my lines with my kids, my older kids. You figure it out.
00:31:31
I do it with my younger kids now. With Saul, I'm like, you figure it out. I don't know. I know, but you can do it
00:31:36
yourself. And so that's it's the best piece of advice you can give to like a
00:31:40
kid. You >> I've started giving my kid pounds when he gets good grades. Is that wrong?
00:31:45
>> I slip him I slip him a 20 pound. And I slip him a note when he gets an A on a
00:31:49
test. >> Do not do that. Well, >> totally. >> No. No. >> Anyway, um
00:31:54
>> that's called that's called capitalism. >> Okay. >> You got to get a bunch of money.
00:31:58
>> Okay. All right. Whatever. Whatever you want to do there, Scott. We should write
00:32:01
competing parenting books. Uh in the same genre about surveillance, as you know, that's another thing I go crazy
00:32:06
about. Um investigators in the Nancy Guthrie abduction case have recovered footage from the Nest doorbell. Nest is
00:32:12
owned by Google. It was initially thought to have no video because there was no active subscription. When you
00:32:16
sign up, you have, for people who don't know, for Nest or any of these things,
00:32:20
you can buy a subscription. If you don't, they say they don't keep the video. As it turns out, they do. The
00:32:26
incident shows that Nest uploads video to Google Cloud before you decide to keep it with a paid plan so it can
00:32:31
linger after it says it's been deleted, is supposed to be deleted. I'm glad they
00:32:37
got these pictures of this guy. At the same time, this is an edge case. They're
00:32:41
they're keeping your video that which I which everyone thought they were doing
00:32:45
and they said they weren't. The FBI working with Google engineers took 10 days to recover the footage from
00:32:49
Guthri's camera. I the companies need to spell out in plain English how long
00:32:55
deleted footage actually remains on their servers. And by the way, they're also getting incredible push back from
00:33:00
the Ring ad for the Super Bowl, which is like, "We're watching everybody, but
00:33:04
only for your dogs." And there's been a million memes about only for people we
00:33:08
need to take away. like the surveillance of these kind of things and the ease of
00:33:14
which they are hacked by the way not just taken off the door like this terrible person did um but hacked into
00:33:21
are quite something a lot of people are getting them hardwired into their house so that they can't do that and also so
00:33:27
that they can't be um taken via wireless there's a lot of wireless activity here
00:33:32
but there are ways to a lot of these things are open season on your home I don't when I Just speaking of my son, my
00:33:40
kids, Alex took I had one of them up at one of our houses when we bought it. It was there, one of these Amazon or Echo
00:33:47
or whatever. He took them all out. He took one day I came back and everything was gone. And I was like, "Why?" And he
00:33:53
goes, "Because they can watch us." And I was like, "Don't be paranoid." He goes,
00:33:56
"I'm not." And he was right. So >> I think we're I think we have a bit of a
00:34:01
different view on this in the sense that I think technology I think we gave up our privacy a long time ago. Yes, Scott
00:34:07
McNeely, we did >> what I want to see. Oh, remember Scott? >> Yeah, he said that
00:34:12
>> privacy doesn't exist. Get used to it. Remember, >> if you are in London or New York, you
00:34:17
can't go more than I think it's 30 feet agree >> outside without a camera.
00:34:21
>> And the reason they did that was they implemented massive they have like a a
00:34:25
security headquarters because of 911. And I actually what I think you need though is really really wellthoughtout
00:34:34
laws and institutions that say we're not going to go fishing unless it's a felony
00:34:41
crime. We don't investigate it. >> In other words, people have the right
00:34:45
You said something I've thought about a lot and that is people have the right to
00:34:48
have secrets. >> Yeah. >> And if you want to if you want to go into a store, if you're I don't know,
00:34:55
you you should be able to do what you want. If you murder somebody then quite frankly and there are enough there's
00:35:03
enough evidence to say that you are a reasonable person of interest then we are going to utilize uh cameras data
00:35:14
video footage >> I agree with you I just think you buy this product and it says it isn't
00:35:18
keeping it if you don't pay for it then it's not keeping it like I'm sorry
00:35:22
that's just the deal that's just the deal when you buy I have several of
00:35:25
these and I've taken most of them off my house, but they say ex and I pay a lot
00:35:30
of attention. We if you don't pay this stuff is deleted. This is deleted. If it
00:35:36
says it's deleted, it should be deleted. That's all. It's just the deal you make
00:35:40
with them. And so I don't think they should keep it if it's supposed to be
00:35:43
deleted. Same thing with Echo. It shouldn't be listening if it says it's
00:35:47
not listening. Right. That's what that's if you want it to listen, you can tell
00:35:51
it. That's in your home. I'm talking about this outside. I think we've lost
00:35:55
that battle. They're going to their cameras are everywhere in talk about London. Monte Carlo is really wired. So
00:36:00
is the United States of America. And that's a good thing when it comes to crime, but it's a very bad thing when it
00:36:06
comes inside of your house. Cuz Scott, I know if you want to wear your frilly underwear, I think I Oh, wait. Was that
00:36:12
a secret? Um, I back people in their homes. I'm just >> Daddy goes commando. Big and the twins
00:36:19
want to be free. But I I think it's it's in this case it was good to be able to
00:36:24
get the picture of this guy. At the same time, she didn't the intent wasn't to.
00:36:30
So if plain English of what you're doing and how long it remains and then it
00:36:34
should tell you when it's deleted and permanently deleted. If they say permanently deleted, it needs to be
00:36:40
deleted. That's I I feel like that's >> at some point you should be able to
00:36:44
have, you know, I have cameras around my house. You can see almost everything. I try to sneak in all the time
00:36:48
>> if someone were to break in. But I think what you want is like this is the hack that I think is coming.
00:36:58
Somebody hacks into Uber with your Uber. If you use Uber a lot, I think you can find out when someone is with a thin
00:37:05
layer of AI on top of your Uber trips where >> they go. >> Mhm. >> They'll be able to know if you just
00:37:09
terminated a pregnancy. >> Yep. >> Or if you're a Russian spy. Why is this
00:37:13
person continually going to the Russian embassy? Why is this are you having affairs with sameex?
00:37:19
A thin layer of AI on top of your ride history when and where you are going places.
00:37:26
>> It would be they would it would be very easy to say, okay, this person is
00:37:31
clearly suffering from diabetes. This is why they keep going to this >> type of clinic. You could. This person
00:37:39
is clearly engaged in a love affair with this dude at this address. This person is clearly
00:37:49
>> sure is constantly going to Amtrak. But go ahead. >> This person is clearly cooperating with
00:37:53
the CIA as evidenced by the fact they keep going to this one address that is a co. They could find out. So that hack,
00:38:04
folks, this is this is the trade we all make and we all talk a big game. Anyone who talks about privacy is typically
00:38:11
over the age of 50 and in Brussels or DC. We consistently trade our privacy for utility.
00:38:18
>> Yep, we do. >> And and what I want is massively Okay. Unless it's a felony, maybe even
00:38:26
more than that, it's a felony that with that has a threat of violence and there's really strong evidence against
00:38:33
one person, all that [ __ ] is off limits. No one can use it. >> All I'm saying is if they say it's off,
00:38:39
it needs to be off like >> or at least give you the power to delete it. >> It's like if you buy like I don't know,
00:38:45
organic apple, it's not organic. You can't do that. I mean, >> it's the same thing. You're selling a
00:38:50
product, you say what it is, stay with what you say it is. But at the same time, I love the fact, okay, when when
00:38:56
there's a crime, >> crime is hitting despite all the scariness and everyone saying whether
00:39:00
it's whether they saying saying it's, you know, Eric Adams or mom Donnie or
00:39:04
it's it's bedum in the streets, >> crime, the number of shootings in New
00:39:08
York last year, I think, hit like an all-time low. >> Violence is going and crime, violent
00:39:13
crime has consistently gone down the last several decades. It was, is it because we're a better people? I don't
00:39:19
think so. is because if you commit crimes now, everyone has seen those Law and Order SUVs
00:39:25
>> that if you if you go into a 7-Eleven in the middle of [ __ ] nowhere >> and shoot the clerk,
00:39:32
>> they're film >> ATMs have cameras. So, was there any ATMs outside? Then they check the
00:39:37
footage on the ATM. I like I don't like a surveillance state. I like a state I
00:39:42
like a place where if a really strong lawyers that where they consistently say, "I get you think a crime is
00:39:49
committed here. There's not enough evidence. You do not have access to this video.
00:39:53
>> Right. >> Stop. There's evidence that you're planning a terrorist attack. Sorry,
00:39:58
boss. We're violating your privacy rights. Every ring light, but we have Uber. We still I still think we have a
00:40:05
dupe process. We can't have the wrong people getting a hold of stuff. Anyway,
00:40:09
I I hope they find Nancy Guthrie and I hope it helps that they have these, but we have to be it brings up a big issue
00:40:17
about surveillance and we should pay attention to it. Um, and I hope it helps find find her and bring her home safely
00:40:24
to her family. Um, anyway, let's go on a quick break. We come back, uh, we'll
00:40:29
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returns. quint.com/pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. Time for rapid fire of AI news. First up,
00:43:12
Anthropic is in the final stages of raising $20 billion in new capital at a valuation of $350 billion
00:43:19
uh valuation. And also at Anthropic, a researcher submitted a resignation letter saying the world is in peril,
00:43:25
saying employees constantly face pressures to set aside what matters most. That researcher is going off to
00:43:31
write poetry, by the way, which should trouble you. Over at XAI, Elon Musk has lost two co-founders, Jimmy Ba and Tony
00:43:38
Woo. Both announced their departure is a big restructuring over there too when he
00:43:42
as he's brought it into uh SpaceX. The company at OpenAI, the company's fired
00:43:47
an executive after she opposed plans for an AI erotica feature in chat GBT citing
00:43:52
sexual discrimination. We don't actually know what happened here. Uh Anthropic
00:43:56
raised the funding uh raised twice the funding initially sought based on investor demand. Uh so thoughts on any
00:44:03
of these stories? Lots of different lots of stuff happening around AI again. >> Yeah, the why people get fired or why
00:44:10
they say they were fired? I don't know. I haven't sorted through that. What I I
00:44:13
think is already happened whether it's reflected in the valuations or not. I
00:44:18
think Anthropic is now worth more than open AAI. I think open AAI >> what was their valuation? 800 billion.
00:44:24
>> Well, they're I think they're trying to close around at 850. >> Yeah. 850.
00:44:27
>> But that one VC who kind of if there was a moment where the the the balloon was
00:44:34
burst, if you will, the bubble was burst. It was when that VC had Sam Alman on his podcast and said, "You've made a
00:44:40
trillion dollars in spending commitments on a company with 20 billion in revenue.
00:44:43
How are you going to do that?" And he got very defensive about it. And they've
00:44:47
gone consumer anthropics gone enterprise. Uh they haven't made the kind of crazy commitments. I I think
00:44:56
there's been the kind of the mother of all industrial pivots. I think now, if
00:45:01
you will, Avis is now hurts. I think Anthropic is now worth more or will be soon than Open AI.
00:45:07
>> They are not making the money. >> Yeah, that's but they're they're
00:45:12
stronger in the enterprise. Anyways, I none of this makes any sense in terms of a multiple on revenues, but uh I think I
00:45:19
think Open AI is in real um I don't know, crisis is the wrong word. There's a lot of arguments over on
00:45:28
X about that they have now do not have he his big thing was I have the best AI researchers now he does not right from
00:45:35
what most people intelligent people are saying about it but you know he always does this he always goes in and shakes
00:45:42
the tree and then shakes the tree again that's that's his emmo I guess they're a
00:45:47
distant what third or fourth something >> well these guys are all here's an a
00:45:53
symbol of how easy it is and how difficult or how vulnerable they are. It says, "Here are some Daario and Daniela
00:46:00
Emodi. Uh, we're at OpenAI now at anthropic." Ilia Sitsker, open AAI, now at safe
00:46:08
super intelligence. Aravan Shinavas, Open AI, now at Perplexity. Mera Morati, open AAI now at thinking machines.
00:46:15
Arthur Mench was at Google, now at Mstral AI. It's the brightest minds here are supposedly in I used to work with a
00:46:24
lot of luxury brands and they said the biggest problem they were having in China
00:46:27
>> Mhm. is that at the biggest malls, if Prada was had a store across the street
00:46:31
from Bautega Vanetta, >> if if the manager of that Prada didn't have people show up, he could go across
00:46:38
the street during the lunch hour to the lunch court and offer someone 11 bucks an hour from the Bautga store who was
00:46:45
making 10 and they wouldn't even go back after their lunch break. They would go
00:46:49
over and work out. It was just so easy to pick off people by offering them a dollar more per hour. And it feels so
00:46:55
many of these deep these people who have, you know, fairly or unfairly have established themselves as some of the
00:47:03
few minds that really understand this stuff. The amount of money and temptation to go do their own thing or
00:47:09
join another firm. It is I mean supposedly wasn't there reports that Zuckerberg was paying some people$100 or
00:47:17
$300 million and then he wasn't. >> I mean it just feels like it's total I
00:47:22
don't know bedum right now. Right. It's it's they all think they're going to be
00:47:26
the one, right? I'm going to be the final one standing and I'm going to own
00:47:29
the world essentially, which is a bet. It's a bet, right? I think one of the
00:47:34
things that continues to plague these companies are these researchers who are like, we're [ __ ] everybody. Like they
00:47:40
come out and almost, you know, like they're sort of like, sh it's going to
00:47:45
kill us, >> I think. But quite frankly, K, I think a lot of it is people backfilling
00:47:53
uh the reason why they're living with leaving with morality sometimes or some
00:47:57
sort of victimhood. If you look at just to go back to musical chairs here, if you look at XAI, the company lost its
00:48:04
second co-founder in just two days. And that means that half of XAI's founding
00:48:09
team, six of the 12 have left the company in less than three years of existence. and Mus said, you know, we we
00:48:16
reorganized XAI to improve the speed of execution, which required parting some ways with some people. And I think for
00:48:23
some of these founders, there's legal risk to staying at XAI. The EU is currently investigating the company for
00:48:29
its creation of non-consensual sexual deep fakes based on real people, including children. So, this really is
00:48:36
the wild west. This is um you know, I don't know. I I think it's just it's so
00:48:43
difficult to even keep track of >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, who ends up where and why.
00:48:48
>> It's like as if a science people went crazy, right? But I I do think the
00:48:53
warnings are getting really interesting. They're like I wish someone would just
00:48:56
explain what we're in peril. How how are we in >> Yeah. How does that manifest? What does
00:49:01
that mean? Hey. Hey. Like, oh, it's like the people who knew that we were about,
00:49:06
you know, in those movies where a bunch of people know we're about to get hit by
00:49:09
a like a comet or something and they're not telling us. They're like, I would
00:49:15
>> love your family. Why >> is it Arnold Schwarzenegger showing up at your door wearing Oakleys and a lot
00:49:21
of leather? Like, what is it? >> What is happening? >> What does it look like here? What does
00:49:24
it What does it mean? Cuz the employment destruction that was supposed to be already well underway, I would argue is
00:49:29
not happening yet. I don't know. But why would someone say they're in peril?
00:49:33
We're in peril and set aside what matters most, which is safety presumably. And then they go off and
00:49:38
write poetry. I would like some more information if you don't mind. If you're
00:49:42
going to do that, you need to tell me. >> Yeah. Why exactly why are we in peril?
00:49:46
>> Why are we in peril? But >> from what? Tell me. Tell us. I know. I
00:49:51
know there's these legal things, but if it's so terrifying, you need to like
00:49:55
step out and like tell us tell us what it is and have bring proof, too. by the way, would love to know when the comet's
00:50:02
going to hit us. In any case, uh >> but the VP of product policy at OpenAI
00:50:06
was fired after she voiced opposition to Open AI's upcoming erotica features for
00:50:11
adult users. >> Yeah, >> she she did something else >> that enabling erotica would likely
00:50:17
strengthen feelings that users already have for the chatbot. Based on a recent report released by OpenAI, out of chat
00:50:23
GBD's 800 million weekly users, >> 1.2 And 2 million users are prioritizing
00:50:29
talking to chat GBT over their family, friends, school, or work. That's less
00:50:32
than I would have thought. Roughly 560K are experiencing psychosis or mania. This is shitty research. As a as a as a
00:50:41
ratio by 800 million people, is that normal or not normal? >> That's a lot.
00:50:44
>> And about 1.2 million people discuss suicide with chat GPT. Again, what I
00:50:49
want to see is someone to say, >> "All right, is that just a function of
00:50:52
people who are depressed thinking they can talk to chat GPT just as they would talk to a friend or a therapist, right?
00:50:57
>> Or is it something about talking to chat GPT?" >> Right? You get the psychosis,
00:51:01
>> suicidal ideiation or psychosis. >> Ladder, you know, interesting. I just
00:51:05
did an interview with Sher Challe from my doc series and she's been saying it
00:51:08
for years and she's like, I've never seen anything like it now. It was before
00:51:12
on the sidelines and in the darker places or people had, you know, it was a small group of people. She goes, "It's
00:51:18
really gone mainstream in a way. I I would like the information from these people. Would you come out and bring a
00:51:23
bag and bring it to me or Scott or something like that?" >> Anyway, Carisher, on a separate note, speaking
00:51:31
of sort of normal journalism and getting information out, one of the most depressing things, Hong Kong media mogul
00:51:37
and pro-democracy activist Jimmy Lie was sentenced this week to 20 years in prison after he found guilty in a
00:51:42
sedition and collusion with foreign forces. It's the longest sentence ever handed down under a death sentence.
00:51:48
>> Death sentence. Uh Eli's children are saying a potential visit by President
00:51:51
Trump April could be crucial in securing the release of their 78-year-old father.
00:51:55
This is something Trump should do. Back in December, Trump said he asked uh President Xi to consider releasing lie.
00:52:01
But on the campaign trail in 2024, he was a lot more confident saying 100% I'll get him out. He'll be easy to get
00:52:06
out. He's not so easy to get out. Let's not forget the real surveillance
00:52:11
economy, the real control economy. We've talked about these issues around control
00:52:15
and the uses of AI for badness. Um, China wins the boats everywhere and they they go after this guy who's a really
00:52:24
important uh figure um uh figure in in this area. And so if President Trump can do anything, please do it. If anyone can
00:52:34
do anything, but Jimmy Li is a hero and and what's happened to him is is as you
00:52:39
say a death sentence. >> Look, I go to the economics. when you start imprisoning journalists, whether
00:52:44
it was Turkey in 2012, Soviet Union at the turn of the century or China, uh, putting the, you know, taking a very
00:52:53
hardfed approach to Hong Kong in 2021 as kind of best epitomized by Timi being imprisoned,
00:53:00
distinct of the morality of it, distinct of the importance it plays in a society,
00:53:05
the nation gets poorer and angrier. It's a it is literally a conard a canary in
00:53:09
the coal mine saying we are about to send a chill across some of the most talented people and scrutiny about what
00:53:15
can be said about companies that hurts the economy. The nations get poorer and angrier and it's literally a symbol of
00:53:24
when an economy is about to move to an authoritarian state which is really bad for innovation for attracting outside
00:53:30
capital. When you're thinking about investing in Turkey, and all of a sudden they
00:53:36
start locking up journalists. Does that thing does that does that if you're Google, you think, "Yeah, I'm going to
00:53:41
start I'm going to open an office in I'm going to open an office in Istanbul."
00:53:46
You think, you know, I'm going to wait and see if they sort that out. If you're
00:53:49
one of the brightest PhDs in the world and you're doing research on authoritarian governments or you're
00:53:56
doing research on innovation and you're worried that your research might might
00:54:01
contradict something that the leadership is espousing to do you go teach at those
00:54:05
universities? No, you go somewhere else. So this is look China is not you know is
00:54:13
not a model for but having said that I was just supposed to be on with Don Lemon who got
00:54:19
arrested. Why the [ __ ] why are they arresting Don Lemon? >> Don Lemon like give me a break. They
00:54:24
shouldn't be arresting any journalist like this. It's just ridiculous. I would
00:54:28
agree. Um I'm going to finish up with any Jimmy L. Let's get him out. Let's
00:54:32
let's get him out. He's a hero. Um I'm going to finish up with something that
00:54:35
just happened. Um Gail Slater, who a hugely respected lawyer, antitrust lawyer who was running antitrust of DOJ,
00:54:42
just announced she's stepping down. It follows uh the the resignation of a guy
00:54:46
named Mark Hammer, who was one of his her top deputies. She's had clashes with
00:54:51
Pam Bondi over the Hanley antitrust investigations. I have heard she was in a real bind over the Paramount thing.
00:54:58
They're trying to like shove through things that are friendly to the Trump administration and she just can't do it.
00:55:04
She can't do it. that during her 11 months on the job, she found herself in this bind caught between the Trump
00:55:09
administration's um she was close to JD Vance. This is a very respected and well- reggarded
00:55:16
antitrust version. This should be an enormous signal that Gail Slater is stepping down. Um I had hoped to talk to
00:55:22
her, but everyone had told me they didn't know what she was going to do about the the Netflix Paramount thing.
00:55:28
Um you cannot be against the Netflix thing if you're not against the Paramount thing. I'm sorry. like and of
00:55:34
course she's being, you know, she she had a she's been put in a bind all over
00:55:38
the place. A talented and and well regarded person has put into a bind and so she's stepping down. Um I just don't
00:55:45
know who they'll put in some idiot like a Brandon Carr type of person who will
00:55:49
just do what they say. Um but it really brings it down rather significantly. Even even um Megan Del Reinver works for
00:55:56
Paramount actually now very well regarded like they're going to have to put in it in a village [ __ ] idiot in
00:56:02
the Pam Bondi mode. So not a good sign. Not a good sign. >> Yeah, great. >> Anyway, uh one more quick break. We'll
00:56:08
be back for predictions. >> Support for the show comes from Netswuite. We all hear all the time how
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00:57:09
The guide is free to you at netsweet.com/pivot. netsweet.com/pivot. >> Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
00:57:18
>> I think that what was supposed to be the most anticipated IPO, maybe with the expect
00:57:24
exception of kind of Space X, AI, Tesla, the >> whatever Tesla's not in there yet.
00:57:30
>> Probably the most anticipated was Open the IPO of Open AI in 2026, sometime
00:57:36
this year, early 27. I don't think that's going to happen. Um I think that
00:57:42
yeah I think this company is is now is gone into full um I don't call it panic mode but it
00:57:50
feels as if the m momentum has a habit of creating more momentum and I think the momentum is really negative around
00:57:56
this company >> what happens where does it go what does it do >> well I think they'll substantially
00:58:03
um scale back there I mean have you already seen the war have you already seen Jensen Hang and Sam Alman who were
00:58:09
you Bud buddies are already [ __ ] posting each other, >> right? >> Claiming that the hundred billion dollar
00:58:14
agreement with was a framework and they're actually not the hundred billion investment.
00:58:18
>> May I just say you said that >> well that was ridiculous. These circular
00:58:23
deals I'll give you a hundred billion. I'll invest 100 billion if you invest
00:58:26
100 billion in our chips. And now and now quote unquote Jensen's backtracking
00:58:30
and saying well it was just a framework they couldn't justify it. Nvidia stock
00:58:35
has gone down because people are worried about exposure to open AI. Right. So what does OpenAI do? They start ship
00:58:40
posting Nvidia and saying no was because their chips didn't live up to our expectations. When when the biggest
00:58:47
player in the space Jensen Hong and kind of the young gun Open AI start ship posting each other and and they back out
00:58:55
of this hundred billion dollar investment framework. That is a really bad sign. >> He kept using what was the word? We're
00:59:02
honored to be invited. What was he saying? It was so funny. Yeah, but they're both going on background now and
00:59:07
blaming each other. >> Oh, totally. Utterly. Like, can I just give people a lesson? When you hear
00:59:12
sources close to the situation, if they were any closer to either of them, they'd be on the other side of them.
00:59:17
>> That's them, right? The >> So, I think I think the momentum the the
00:59:23
worm has turned. And it's not that OpenAI isn't an unbelievable company that could go public at like a $50
00:59:28
billion market capitalization. But the problem is when you sell some investors in at 250, 450, and then if he's able to
00:59:34
close this round at 850, they're not willing to go public or let you have a liquidity event that cuts there. What
00:59:41
happens in an IPO? Say he went public at 300 billion next year and said, "Okay,
00:59:45
the market isn't what we thought." Unless there's a couple years where the
00:59:49
latest round of investors get so fatigued they're willing to take a 60% haircut. All of your shares, the last
00:59:55
round of investment has a preference, meaning they they're the first money out. So the 50 or 100 billion going in
01:00:01
at 850 doesn't want to give up their liquidity preference and let them go public if they're going public at less
01:00:07
than 850, which I think they would. So your last round of investors become a veto block for going public unless
01:00:14
you're going to go public at a valuation greater than 850. >> So what do they do? You haven't answered
01:00:19
my question. >> They'll dramatic, in my opinion, they'll dramatically scale back their capital,
01:00:24
their capex and they'll end up with a much smaller, much less ambitious amazing company that's only worth a
01:00:30
100red or 200 billion. It's only one of the 30 most valuable companies in America. Not the
01:00:35
>> get bought what? Well, that means everyone else will get collapsed, right?
01:00:38
Or not. I think the whole my opinion if you look at and I look at weird signals the percentage of ads at the Super Bowl
01:00:44
right if you look at all this I think there's a ton of anecdotal evidence showing that while AI may live up to its
01:00:51
potential the market cap of the biggest players this year is about to throw up which isn't to say that similar in 2000
01:00:59
when the market cap of Amazon went down 95% it's still not going to be an unbelievable company but I think we're
01:01:05
about to see a dramatic recalibration in the markets which includes Open AAI's
01:01:09
IPO plans getting queered. Now, who's going to take their place? And this is
01:01:13
the prediction. >> Mhm. >> The most impressive numbers hands down that no one I wasn't expecting.
01:01:20
>> Khi's year on year >> and not Poly Market, right? >> Well, Khi's Khi is actually of the two
01:01:29
the clean well-lit space of this I see. Okay. >> Of this marketplace, right? It's a
01:01:35
little Cali is CFTC regulated. It's also in the US. It's peer-to-peer trading.
01:01:41
It's federally regulated. Um I have some I don't have moral clarity around these
01:01:46
issues because I do think they tap into the dopa of a young more risk aggressive
01:01:50
male brain. But just let me go straight to the numbers here. >> In 2026 or in this Super Bowl, right,
01:01:58
>> over a billion dollar in trading volume on Cali. That's up 2,700%. It was up 28fold this year. And you know
01:02:08
who's getting absolutely the [ __ ] kicked out of them is Flutter is the gambling
01:02:13
sites. They're killing these guys. The sports market accounted for about 90% of Kow's
01:02:19
activity this month. And it's it's having an incredible impact on traditional gambling and sports book. Um
01:02:28
analysts have noted that Khu's ride ride rise coincides with the underperformance
01:02:32
in major sports books stock prices draft kings flutter as traders shift some activity towards prediction markets and
01:02:39
with a venue that's easy to access nationwide which koshi is even in states without legal sports betting the firm is
01:02:45
attracting betterers who might otherwise um have used traditional sports books. So this is this company and my my
01:02:53
prediction is the following. Open AI way to the downside doesn't get public. Khi is about is going to be in
01:03:01
my opinion the kind of IPO we're all trying to get into in Q2 of Q3 of this year.
01:03:07
>> Kchi it is. All right. Well, that's interesting. You've been sounding this
01:03:10
alarm for these companies. Interesting. Fascinating. That's a big one, Scott.
01:03:14
That's a big one. >> We'll see. Right. >> Yeah. Anyway, we want to hear from you.
01:03:19
Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:03:21
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Uh elsewhere in the
01:03:28
Cara and Scott universe this week on Profy Markets, Scott spoke with Esar Prasad, professor of trade policy and
01:03:34
economics at Cornell University to discuss why he thinks economics, domestic politics, and geopolitics are
01:03:40
stuck in a doom loop. Doom loop. Let's listen to a clip. Globalization used to
01:03:46
be seen as a positive sum game where countries could benefit mutually from trade and that would be an offset to
01:03:53
what is intrinsically the zero sum game of geopolitics where one country can gain influence only at the expense of
01:04:00
another. But now even globalization has become seen as a zero sum game. So it isn't offsetting the zero sum game of
01:04:07
geopolitics and worse some of the negative dynamics of globalization have started infecting domestic politics not
01:04:14
just in the US but in many other countries. >> God I feel smarter already my people
01:04:19
>> you know there's professor um >> Prasad that one of the things that
01:04:26
struck me and I said this >> we graduated the same year from undergraduate me from UCLA him from the
01:04:32
University of Madras. >> Mhm. I graduated with a 2.27 GPA with an incredible ability to make bongs out of
01:04:39
any household item. >> He won a scholarship in India that identified like one of the 50 smartest
01:04:44
kids of a billion kids. >> And so what what do what does a guy who's one of the 50 like he this guy
01:04:52
could walk into the Rose Bowl and take the average IQ of those 80,000 people up a couple points. That's how smart and
01:04:58
hardworking this man is. So what are we doing to what are we saying to these people now? Can you imagine a kid coming
01:05:02
out of the University of Memphis right now in 2026? Is he going to go to Brown? >> Yeah.
01:05:07
>> No, he's going to go to Miguel or he's going to go to Instituta or he's going
01:05:11
to go to >> INSEAD >> or who knows maybe >> maybe the University of Cordova in
01:05:16
Argentina. I mean, >> speaking of doom loops, academic doom loops. >> We're the sports team that used to have
01:05:22
access to the number one draft at any college in the world and we've said no,
01:05:27
we don't want >> and now we just have Prof coming back to the Anyway, it's it sounds like a great
01:05:34
interview. I'll be listening to it. That is the show. Thanks for listening to
01:05:37
Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Uh we'll be back
01:05:41
next week.