00:00:00
I do laugh at her having hearing her call Trump he was a gentleman in every respect. Like even Trump's friends don't
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think he's a gentle like even Trump wouldn't describe himself as a gentleman. I don't think
00:00:15
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser and welcome
00:00:21
back to Got Bree August. [Music] I never get tired of that. Uh, it's the final week of Scot-Free August, though.
00:00:32
He is coming back soon. He's been texting me lately, so we know he's getting a little jumpy on his vacation in his expensive house, wherever it
00:00:39
happens to be. Um, but I have yet another amazing co-host. This has been an astonishing month. Tim Miller,
00:00:46
welcome to Pivot. Hey, Cara. I've just been kind of warming up uh some takes about
00:00:51
narcissism and the crisis of young men and seialis and stuff to help people, you know, kind of transition back into Scott September. Okay, go for it. Do you have anything? Yeah. Well, no. I just I think it's
00:01:03
important to encourage to encourage older men to use psyalis and encourage younger men to get out there in the
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world and to find women to sleep with or men whatever because we don't, you know, we don't want incels and I
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think it leads to other problems in society and and I think Scott's really really good on this point.
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Yeah. Okay. Good. Well, thank you. You were also the host of the Bull Work Podcast where you do a great job and former GOP strategist. I cannot believe
00:01:28
that at this point. Anyway, welcome. It's been a decade. Yeah. of the Yeah. So, talk about uh your podcast a little
00:01:34
bit and what's the most interesting conversation you've had on there recently? Oh, boy. Ever or recently?
00:01:41
Whatever is fine. Uh, you know, look, I I the podcast it's a daily podcast, which is a bit of a
00:01:46
grind. So, like I feel this obligation to like be on the news and get in the news while at the same time like if it's
00:01:54
[ __ ] Trump is awful porn every day, you know, I'm going to kill myself. And I think that the listeners will too. And
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so you have to kind of have a balance between that. So I I don't know. I mean like for example on the Trump porn one I
00:02:05
loved my John Love it conversation recently cuz I made him cry. I think he's I think mine is the only podcast he's cried on. So if people want to
00:02:11
get in touch with their feelings, you can listen to two gay men who hide our feelings underneath sarcasm. Uh try to
00:02:18
expand. I had your boy JCL on a couple weeks ago. I thought that was interesting. Um just because it's
00:02:26
it's a gag. It's a gag. Um I don't know if you feel this way. It's hard. I really want to in the second Trump term like have people on who are less radicalized against him than me just to
00:02:37
kind of hash it out. It's important to hear the other perspectives. The problem is most Trump supporters are full of
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[ __ ] And so it's and I don't want anybody on the podcast that's full of [ __ ] I know you guys too. I just I want only people on who are going to say what
00:02:49
they really think. And so I I I can't have somebody on who like will say one thing on the podcast in the
00:02:55
green room and be like, you know, he really he really has gone too far on this thing. You know what? That doesn't work. And so Jake, yes, they do. Just for people who don't
00:03:01
know, they'll come up to you in a green room and be like, I agree with you. And you're like, you [ __ ] [ __ ] Like
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that's when I truly hate them. Jason's an This is Jason Gallaghan. Yeah, Jason. I guess he at least will
00:03:13
say when he disagrees with Trump, which he which I think he's at least telling the truth to me. You don't
00:03:18
Well, he's an interesting I've known him for 30 40 years now. Um when he he was an immediate person. and he ran a bunch
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of tech stuff and you know he's kind of a you know jazz hands kind of fella like that.
00:03:29
I don't know how else to put it. He's really losome to Scott for reasons I undetermined which probably jealousy. Um
00:03:36
but um one of the things we used to be friends I would say I stayed at his house and stuff like that and his his
00:03:43
need to suck up to power is really quite distasteful to me and you know he's he's
00:03:48
sort of like the clown to Elon or whatever that group of people he's on the podcast with Allin. Uh I I feel bad
00:03:55
because I thought he was very clever and actually one of the early media entrepreneurs um and a really
00:04:01
enthusiastic person, but you know, one of the things that I always had a problem in our relationship was that he
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was he couldn't do hard things. Like he was a very big proponent of Travis Kalanick until everybody turned on Travis Kalanick and then he was against Travis Kalanis and then when he
00:04:17
came back he was for I'm like do you have any lasting values of anything? Yeah. Um uh but that's what
00:04:25
I thought that was an interest. It's interesting you say that because one of the interesting things about the interview was like because that's his nature. He was
00:04:32
totally candid about the fact like one of the things that I try to get to I'd be interested in your thoughts on this is like why did all of these
00:04:38
billionaires become putty in Trump's hands? Like I get that in some in some cases they want access. It's about
00:04:44
power. It's about money. If Trump's going to act like an authoritarian, they need to do it. But like in other cases they didn't really need to and and they
00:04:51
did it anyway. and why. And he and he's just blunt about the fact that like Trump, you know, responds to their phone
00:04:57
calls. Biden never did. Their feelings, their little Fifes were hurt, that Elon wasn't invited to some summit,
00:05:04
and like and so I thought that was like interesting just how blunt he was about that. But like sucking up to power was
00:05:09
like the reason why these guys do it. Like basically that's it. It's no deeper than that, which he is very good at, let me just
00:05:14
say. And again, I like Jason because I I feel bad we don't speak now. And cuz he won't speak to me because they're mad at
00:05:19
me. And I'm like, "Don't you have any [ __ ] balls, Jason? You know, we had a pretty good relationship." And he won't
00:05:25
cuz he's like cuz it's sort of like the the court jester in a lot of ways to those people. I think, you know, he
00:05:30
doesn't have as much money as they do. He has a lot of money, but not like them. Like, and so I I think he's often
00:05:36
wanted to monetize that podcast better than they do. And it's it's degenerated into he used to run a bunch of other startup events that I really liked actually. I thought they were very
00:05:47
clever. They were sort of again jazz hands a lot. But um I just feel like he had he just has made a trade that I
00:05:54
don't love. And I wish you would call me because I'm I'm like it's fine to argue Jason. But now even he's gotten hurt.
00:06:01
Like you said something and hurt me. I'm like oh [ __ ] you. Like you know what I mean? Like call Cara Jason. Now I feel bad that I
00:06:07
mentioned that. You put me on the spot about recent recent interviews. I'm like I mentioned the Jason one. I was like I should have mentioned like somebody
00:06:12
who's who would have you know not not triggered you. But he's really smart and insightful and I you know what I'd love
00:06:17
I'd love him to be Truman [ __ ] compot and write a book when it's all over turning on all of them. I would love
00:06:24
that because I bet he has some really good insights. Anybody turn on Shimoth I'm for. So I I sign up for that too. But that's another
00:06:30
relationship. I should have mentioned Eene Carol her that was one of my that was my favorite interview recently cuz I was worried you
00:06:35
never know. I didn't actually know her. I'd never met her. She is such a salty [ __ ] Isn't she the podcast
00:06:41
started with her listing all the people that she had had sex with cuz she included that in her book. It's the best
00:06:46
list I've ever heard. I forget what it's like six people but they're all famous. I'm like it's
00:06:51
she's a salty [ __ ] as they say like you know kind of thing. Um what tell you do it daily? That's crazy.
00:06:58
Yeah. Well now you've revealed yourself as not a daily listener which is fine. My feelings aren't hurt. That's a lot of it's a lot of material. I listen to it I listen you know where I
00:07:04
listen to it? I listen to it on social media. Like I listen to pieces and pieces. Great. I definitely listen to it every day because I when you know I go
00:07:11
through my feeds. Yeah. It's how people consume stuff now. Yeah. No, it's every day. I think it's important. Like look, it's important for
00:07:17
people to be in a rhythm. You guys have a rhythm. You're still doing it Scottree August. Like this was my when I started when I took it over I called some of my
00:07:22
sports podcast buddies um who do like pardon my take some of the successful ones that I did the podcast with JJ Reic and I asked them
00:07:28
like what's the deal? What's like your main advice? And their main advice was consistency that the listeners know that
00:07:34
you're going to be there if something happen. You know what I mean? And so I like I kind of took that to heart and uh
00:07:39
yeah. No, it's on every day. One of the things that people are with with media is you've got to be
00:07:45
promiscuous in a way that you know in and in their ear and in their head because and in genuine ways. It's a very
00:07:53
different than a TV appearance which you're also on. Um because it's you like this is my take and they get to trust
00:07:59
you and that's the critical part of having a daily relationship. One thing you said I want to poke on this Trump
00:08:05
porn Trump porn stuff. Talk about that like that idea is you don't want to just be endlessly reacting to this.
00:08:12
Yeah. I It's tough. I I made long dong silver short dong silver. My um my my pledge to myself after he won was like I'm only going to get mad about what I'm
00:08:22
mad about. And there's going to be a lot to be mad about, you know, but I'm not gonna like if he does something that is
00:08:28
like, you know, that I know I could do a little bit on that would be fake or fun, I just I'm not going to do that because
00:08:33
like a life's too short, b it kind of helps him, I think, frankly. Um, you know, because often times those topics
00:08:39
are things that he wants to be out there. Um, and I just don't think it does listen like people that are tuning in
00:08:45
any service, you know, to to do that. So I that's that's my thing. I it's hard like look like there's there's so many
00:08:54
indignities every day and so like there's sometimes an obligation to bring up stuff that I feel like is that's not
00:08:59
getting enough attention that's in the news right u but if it just becomes you know one day it's like oh well Trump did
00:09:06
this thing that's horrible the next thing he did this other thing that's horrible the next thing he did this other thing that's horrible and there's no the frequency does isn't any
00:09:11
different right if it's the same frequency the whole time then you know everybody you become numb to it and soated yeah yeah So, I I just
00:09:20
I think it's important for everybody, and I don't even really mean this in a political sense, like it's important politically. I do think it's important
00:09:25
for the Democrats to figure out ways to keep people from becoming numb to it, but I just mean in like a now that I've now that I'm a former Republican, I've
00:09:32
switched sides. I can use lib terms like this now. I mean it like in a self-care way. Like, don't become numb to this and
00:09:37
just have it be like, "Oh, every day I just wake up and I get my fix of how awful it is." Well, I think the problem is Trump is
00:09:44
oxygen right at this moment. He's everywhere. There's nothing climate change you could do a thing. vaccines, you could do a thing like all kinds of
00:09:51
things. And he and it's hard when you're talking about other things not to be aware of it because it's like nothing
00:09:58
matters except this. And that's what he's done really effectively. Um but let's see what you get really mad about.
00:10:03
We've got a lot to get through today, including what Gain Maxwell is saying about Trump. All good things. What a surprise. And Jeffrey Epstein. Uh and
00:10:10
MAGA is melting down over the stupid Cracker Barrel logo. But I do think that's a much more interesting story than than just the logo, which is
00:10:16
interesting. But first, President Trump is threatening to send National Guard troops to Chicago, New York, and Baltimore as part of his effort to crack
00:10:23
down on crime. The Pentagon has been planning a military deployment in Chicago for weeks now, according to the Washington Post. Illinois Governor JB
00:10:30
Pritsker is accusing Trump of trying to quote manufacture a crisis. While over in Maryland, Governor Wes Moore sent
00:10:36
Trump off at set Trump off after inviting him to walk the streets of Baltimore. He offered a golf cart, by
00:10:42
the way. Meanwhile, uh, guard troops are now carrying weapons on the streets of DC. A Pete Hegsath directive makes me
00:10:48
feel more unsafe as a DC resident. A CNN analysis of government data found a moderate drop in reported crime in DC
00:10:55
during the first week of Trump's take took over a far larger surge in the arrest of immigrants. Um uh Bill Maher
00:11:01
has been talking about a slowmoving coup for a while now. In his latest episode, he laid out how Trump's recent action suggests a coup may already be underway.
00:11:08
It's a little long, but let's listen. Uh first, create a masked police force. Get people look used to looking at that.
00:11:15
uh normalize snatching people off the street, get them used to that. Uh normalize seeing the car, the National
00:11:22
Guard and the military on the street. Then start talking about crime in the capital, which is basically, you know,
00:11:29
has always been a fairly crimeridden city. This is our nation's capital where elections are decided. And then have
00:11:36
because the crime is so bad, have other states start sending their troops, not just the National Guard there in DC, but now at least six other states are sending their troops, which then Trump
00:11:47
can then federalize. So you're having many states troops on the ground there and now they're under federal control. So you have in the capital a sort of permanent police
00:12:00
presence. So let's talk about this. I live here. Uh I just took my daughter to the first day of public school today. Couldn't the
00:12:07
images couldn't be different. It's a very it's it's not a crimeridden city. It's actually crime has been improving
00:12:12
as Democrats have been pointing out. There's crime in every city. There's a lot of crime in Houston for example.
00:12:18
There's a lot of crime in Alabama in the cities and wherever. It doesn't matter. Cities are like this. Uh the second
00:12:24
thing is this idea of people on the streets with guns. Um, but there haven't been a lot of protests and it's not
00:12:30
because people think this is a good thing. I know this. I've talked to lots and lots of people. Um, there's been a
00:12:36
real um, icing of the workforce around ICE. Uh, people not coming to work. I just talked to one someone who works does some some yard work for me. They can't come because of ICE um because
00:12:48
they're worried. Their their workers are worried. Uh, shut down of restaurants, etc. talk a little bit about this
00:12:54
because you know and then the threats to go to Chicago um to Baltimore to um to New York obviously Zoron Mandani wins for example. Yeah. Um I like that Bill Maher I don't
00:13:06
you know I was I felt like he was kind of lecturing people about he was mad that people were mad at him for going to visit Trump earlier and it's like this
00:13:12
is why he's like consolidating power and it's important to just be clear about what it is what he's trying to do. Um,
00:13:19
and I to me like the thing that about this that that makes me the most upset is this combination of this kind of like military state military theater like with the actual, you know, masked thugs
00:13:33
hassling uh people that are here sometimes illegally, sometimes not, you know, and they they went and they tear
00:13:38
gas that guy and like banged through his window in California who was a US citizen, George Reis. And and so we'll
00:13:44
kind of, you know, he's now going to be able to sue, but like this is what they're doing, right? like it is they're acting with impunity and and the imagery
00:13:50
of it like feels very unamerican and it's just it's wrong. It's like not it it feels like it's in a banana republic.
00:13:57
It's like what we have we've got these new trucks now with Daddy Trump's name on it and you know like people walking
00:14:04
through the streets in the military uniforms and and and then they're jumping out of unmarked cars with masks.
00:14:10
Like that's not how things should you know that's not what this country should be about. people should be outraged and
00:14:17
and pushing back on it. And I think that to Bill's point, like there's like the slow burn element of it about like
00:14:23
getting people used to it. Um that I think is really is is really alarming. So I, you know, we we'll kind
00:14:30
of see how this stuff continues on to Chicago and and Maryland and and what else they decide to do. New York, maybe Baltimore, Chicago. Uh but like he's not he's not being subtle about it. And it's
00:14:41
important I think at each lever. So, I was happy to see what Wes Moore was doing this weekend to like like stop and
00:14:47
say like this is no like we're going to push back on this now, you know, because otherwise it it just becomes a creep
00:14:54
where he is able to do more and more. Cities have an ability to do although LA had mixed mixed ability to do it. No,
00:14:59
the DC is a unique entity because it's also a federal center and they don't have states rights. There's no voting.
00:15:06
Our our representative happens to be out of it actually, so you're not hearing from her. um and and people um it's a
00:15:14
unique situation here. In the other states, it's going to be harder to try this to try these numbers. But how do
00:15:21
you uh why aren't there more crackdowns and especially these visual images of either people, you know, being taken off the street like on moped and things like that or everyone has a story here. Um
00:15:33
people are are not I don't quite know what to do, right? What do you do? You go yell at these people. Okay, that doesn't really have an effect. What is the What is the response beside in
00:15:46
cities? I could see them pushing back on Trump. Sure. Uh but not DC. Yeah. No, I look and a the response from Democratic leaders is that they have to say no and not we're going to work with you on this, right? Like and that was I
00:15:57
mean, you know, Bowser did again the DC thing is a little bit different. It's a little bit complicated, but when you get to these other cities, you know, say no
00:16:04
and they have to have showdowns over states rights. I mean like this was like JD Vance was on the shows over the weekend where he's talking about how
00:16:10
this question of the red state national guards coming there coming to DC and how he's like well this is our system we
00:16:16
have states rights if the Republican governors want to send us troops to suck up to Trump then like oh well we'll just do that but that's not how it works and
00:16:22
there's another blue states and even purple states that have Democratic governors right you notice Philly isn't on the list Josh Shapiro is there
00:16:28
Detroit what they're like what eventually you know you get a showdown in these places um but I I think that's
00:16:35
important I think it's important Um I I think that the protesting is important itself. It's important for people to
00:16:40
call their leaders. Look, I think a lot of people feel like, oh, the push back has been limp and I get that. I I feel
00:16:47
that way as well. There are things I wish people were doing more of. Um but a part of that I think is because people
00:16:53
feel like the push back is hope is not with is not with point because Trump has total power in DC and these total power
00:16:59
of Congress. But I I point to this im the immigration thing in El Salvador as like a prime example of like how like
00:17:06
pushing back on legal, political, and action in the streets grounds can slow them down. I mean like their initial
00:17:12
plan was to send lots of people to that Al Salvador prison, but they initially sent the three planes. There was
00:17:18
immediately push back, political, legal, people in the streets and uh you know the the courts slowed them down. And what ended up happening like about a couple weeks ago now the the the the
00:17:29
Venezuelans that they had sent there got sent back to Venezuela. No more planes of Gond Del Salvador. No more people
00:17:34
have been sent there. And like that is an example of resisting the administration that isn't maybe that
00:17:40
satisfactory because it's not like a win for Democrat. Going to try everything. Yeah. Slow them down on that vertical.
00:17:45
They got to do the you got to do the same thing across all these other slowown. The idea of slow down. You've
00:17:51
heard about the white ladies putting Mexican flags on their cars to get ice to stop them. I see that. I like that
00:17:56
people are making fun of it. I was like, why? It's wasting their time. And then the white ladies can chat away with them for the longest time. And like that's
00:18:02
six hours. Like I could talk to a nice person for six hours and be difficult, but not arrestably difficult. You know
00:18:09
what I mean? Like kind of why are you doing this? What's happening? What's your name? How you doing? Like irritating in the way only white ladies
00:18:15
can do it. Well, they should you should irritate the local politicians. Look, and I think like so here in Louisiana, I live in New Orleans now, and so that they sent 135
00:18:22
National Guard troops to DC to guard the Shake Shack or whatever. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like even
00:18:27
Republicans in Louisiana should be calling their legislators and the and the governor and annoying them about
00:18:33
this, saying like these are people with lives. Like these are 135 people that have real jobs that have families.
00:18:38
They're in back to school. Like they're they've been sent away from their kids to to [ __ ] sit outside the Georgetown
00:18:44
Cupcake. Like, this is it's ridiculous. It's preposterous and like and and and shining light on how ridiculous it is is an important and a waste of money. A waste of money.
00:18:55
Yeah. Is there any pluses for the Trump administration doing this? Like crime is bad because people do out from outside
00:19:00
cities all think crime is like the whole San Francisco narrative was so [ __ ] There was problems. They they're
00:19:07
starting to really fix them. The city is very vibrant now. But one of the it's just the cycle, right? The COVID cycle,
00:19:14
the people moving out, etc., etc. and the the more the but you know they're aiming at homeless people which is
00:19:20
really interesting here in DC and elsewhere as if that's really the actual problem. I I think it help look I think
00:19:27
that you know there there are people like Matt Glacius expresses this view that's like bad for Democrats any time
00:19:33
to be talking about crime and immigration because if crime and immigration are in the news that's good for Trump because those are issues that are good for Trump and I take that point
00:19:39
right like I think that you have to be cleareyed about how the fact that there is a you know uh political benefit to
00:19:45
what they're doing they're good at picking enemies you know Kil Margaret Garcia is not that particularly sympathetic as a person right like John
00:19:51
Bolton isn't particularly sympathetic as a person in different ways but But I I think that like finding the most extreme
00:19:58
examples and and and winning the fight on those b on those grounds is better than ignoring it if you're a Democrat and moving on. And I mean this happened in the first term on child separation.
00:20:09
Like his numbers tanked on it and they had to backtrack on it. That was a worthwhile immigration fight. Is
00:20:14
fighting over like border security worthwhile? Like no, probably not. Like similarly on crime, like uh is pushing
00:20:19
back on some of what they're doing on crime and cleaning up cities? It's not my cup of tea. is pushing back on that
00:20:24
worthwhile. Maybe not politically speaking. Activists or individuals can, but the Democrats should push back on
00:20:31
masked guys jumping out of unmarked cars and tackling Door Dash drivers. Nobody's for that. And you know, I was listening
00:20:37
over the weekend, do you know Tim Dylan? He's like a comedian mag comedian and Joe Rogan. Yeah, I was listen Dylan show over the
00:20:42
weekend and he's like, if you're a libertarian-minded Republican guy, don't tread on me
00:20:48
Republican guy. You can win those guys over with this. It's like he's looking at this. He's going this what Trump is
00:20:53
doing is everything Alex Jones warned about is what he was saying. It's like, you know, it's it's we're giving Palunteer our our information. We've got
00:21:00
mass, you know, we got we're militarizing the streets. We've got masked cops, you know, going after
00:21:05
people without due process. Like this is a big government security state. You know, if if framed correctly, I think
00:21:12
Democrats could use it, right? Yeah. As you know, every accusation is a confession with these people. So, um the
00:21:17
Trump administration, let's move on. Another thing they're grappling with, the Trump administration has released transcripts and audio from the DOJ's
00:21:24
recent interview with Gelain Maxwell, Jeffrey Epste's longtime associates and convicted sexual uh offend sex offender.
00:21:31
In an interview, Maxwell, who is seeking a pardon, praised Donald Trump. What a surprise. And also downplayed his
00:21:36
involvement in Epstein's activities. What a surprise. Let's listen to what this heinous [ __ ] said. I actually never saw the president in
00:21:43
any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The
00:21:49
president was never inappropriate with anybody in the times that I was with him. He was a gentleman in all respects.
00:21:56
So said the pedophile. So said the pedophile. Maxwell also denied the existence of a client list and dismissed a number of Epstein's theories and allegations. Also rather kind to Epstein. He can rot in hell. She
00:22:09
did, however, say she doesn't believe Epstein died by suicide in prison. Honestly, why are we listening to the I'm sorry, she's a heinous [ __ ] Why
00:22:15
are we listening to her? Um, will it it is a will it appease the MAGA folks? And
00:22:21
what do you make of the timing? The DOJ also gave Congress thousands of Epstein documents, though Democrats are pointing
00:22:26
out the majority of the documents were already public. They're trying to sort of slow roll the thing. Aostumous and
00:22:32
quote unsparing memoir by Epstein accuser Virginia uh Grey, who died by suicide in April, is coming out in this fall. And also some of the victims are now have [ __ ] had it with this again.
00:22:44
HBest [ __ ] No need to apologize for saying he hates [ __ ] We can say that again now is what I was that what I heard after the
00:22:49
election that that those words are allowed again. So nothing okay good. I can say whatever I want about her. So anyway um
00:22:56
uh you know I'm hoping Elizabeth Holmes like like smacks her a little bit in the they're in the same prison I guess. Um
00:23:03
talk a little bit about this and where it's going. I still think it's got a lot of legs this this story. I don't know. I
00:23:09
feel like it does. I um I do laugh at her having hearing her call Trump he was a gentleman in
00:23:14
every respect. Like even Trump's friends don't think he's a gentle like even Trump wouldn't describe himself as a gentleman. I don't think it's just it's
00:23:21
so you know [ __ ] preposterous. Um no she's and she's awful. It's like important to just say that like and she was involved in the sex crimes like in some of these reports like she was there
00:23:32
in the room when it was actually happening. So I could not participating in it. Yeah. And she was bullying intimidating
00:23:37
these women. there was they're in a quasi sex slavery with him essentially saying where she was, you know, saying,
00:23:43
"Oh, you know, you're not going to get, you know, there would be financial pressure she'd put over them or access
00:23:48
or threats." So, and she is as as bad as they get. Uh, and to and a liar and totally unreliable. Um, in all these
00:23:55
cases, her only effort here is to get a pardon. I don't I don't think anything really comes out of this. Um, I I think
00:24:02
it's um it maybe should be used against Trump politically. the fact that she's been sent to a a club fed as the only
00:24:08
sex offender in the entire prison system in such a such a nice prison with Elizabeth Holmes. And um and so I think
00:24:15
there's maybe some political juice there. Not a ton, but there's something. I I think that to me the potential story
00:24:22
here is that um is that like there is an actual traditional cover up, right? Like
00:24:28
a lot of Trump's other behavior is like very is suen. like it's just Trump. Like
00:24:34
he's doing stuff that hasn't really happened before. It's different. People like like his crypto scheme. It's like what, you know, like there's not there's
00:24:40
not a history of this type of scandal, you know, for folks to like, you know, break um uh connect to. That's not the
00:24:47
case here. Like this is just a straight cover up that many other politicians have done. Like they have a list of all the times Trump has mentioned in these
00:24:53
files. They they've admitted it. They said there's a Microsoft share file with the FBI agents that went through and marked his name. So, this exists
00:24:58
somewhere, you know, a file where of where Trump is in there and they don't want to release it and they're not going
00:25:04
to. They're going to cover it up to protect the boss. Like, that's just a straight coverup story. And I think that I asked Hakee Jeff about this when he
00:25:10
was on the pod the other week and I was like, "So, will you have a special committee on this if you get back into the leadership and and he kind of said
00:25:17
yes, like he wouldn't commit to exactly to a special committee, but he said we will be investigating this." And I think
00:25:22
they can then now then just do a again a straight old school coverup investigation. they can subpoena the FBI
00:25:29
agents that were involved in this, you know, that what the D what Bondi did that what she briefed Trump on. Um and
00:25:35
and who knows where that could lead, right? And so, you know, I the example I always use of this is all those Benghazi
00:25:41
oversight hearings in this weird convoluted way. The Benghazi hearing led to the Hillary email server, you know,
00:25:47
and um and so you don't exactly know what will come from oversight. And so I think if the Democrats are willing to actually do it um if they well first if they win in the midterms and then if
00:25:57
they're actually to do it like this is a story that we'll be talking about in August of 2027. Yeah. They're trying to push it down and
00:26:03
they didn't push down very easily. I don't think this this guy continues to resurface Epstein. He's like the the
00:26:09
corpse that wouldn't be buried essentially, you know, and he keeps showing up in some fashion. I think the Gerain Maxwell
00:26:16
I know a lot of them are saying Trump is clean like Jim Jordan who who's good at
00:26:21
defending pedophiles and covering up for them. Um you know would say he's not clean by any stretch of the imagination like at all cuz this lady says it not. So I just one photograph one another
00:26:35
accuser that's all it's going to take to really revive this cuz it really does animate the right in ways that it didn't
00:26:42
animate the left by the way. It doesn't animate liberals this story. Yeah. And I think that was because the
00:26:48
right got animated by it and the the pretense was kind of like this concerned about child child sex trafficking. And I
00:26:55
there are some obviously there are people on the right who are genuinely concerned about child predation. And but I I think that why it sort of like you
00:27:02
know tickled their um you know the lizard part of their brain was the the death side. It was like the conspiracy
00:27:08
side of it. like, oh, was there a deep state effort to protect whoever, the Clintons, you know, you name it, like
00:27:14
whoever. And and was and that like plot side of it is is what like elevated the story from what would have been a very like serious, no doubt, like real story with like real victims and all that to something that like like had this life
00:27:27
of its own on the right. Um, and and I think that like for that same reason now, like there's a there's a not really
00:27:35
a conspiracy, but a cover up that I think will animate the left that kind of gets locked on to the more
00:27:40
straightforward story about what they're pointing. This this, you know, there are
00:27:46
attempts at slow rolling it and they still fight among each other with Laura Loomer still calling Pam Bondie Blondie,
00:27:52
etc. Um, I suspect this is still going to keep going with this guy. Um, okay, Tim, let's go on a quick break. We come back, Trump makes a deal with Intel. Support for Pivot comes from Grunes. If
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00:29:21
Tim, we're back. The US government is taking a 10% stake in Intel with Trump calling it a quote great deal for
00:29:27
America and a great deal for Intel. Under the agreement, $ 8.9 billion in unpaid chip Act grants will be converted
00:29:34
into equity, making the government Intel's largest shareholder, but without board seats or governance rights. It's a
00:29:39
turnaround from a few weeks ago when Trump was calling for Intel CEO to resign over ties to China. Intel ALS
00:29:45
move also comes on the heels of Nvidia and AMD agreeing to hand over 15% of their China chip sale revenues to the
00:29:51
government. Not clear whether they should be selling chips to China. There's also that quote golden share in
00:29:57
US steel. Uh Senator Ran Paul called the Intel deal a step towards socialism. I oddly enough agreed with Senator Ran Paul. Industrial policy is not my favorite thing. Even the Washington Post
00:30:08
and also the Wall Street Journal. But the Washington Post editorial board came out against this saying the United States should not be trying to beat
00:30:13
China by becoming China. Um, you know, AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders wish they could have this much control over companies, right? And Mark endorsed it actually. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Um, and um, Mark
00:30:27
Cuban said it's just a wealth tax in a different way, right? They were they're taking money. I, you know, as part of
00:30:33
it, I'm like I thought the government should have not done the giveaways to car companies or banks. Um, I thought
00:30:39
they should have taken a piece of Tesla and then sold it back and made money on it for the US. There's nothing wrong
00:30:45
with it, but industrial policy in general is always a bad idea in a in a capitalist and vibrant economy. Um,
00:30:52
thoughts about this and how it how it shakes out. I'm curious your thoughts on the tech side. I'll just give because this is
00:30:58
like also a little bit outside my wheelhouse, but my my political and obviously there is the cheap but true
00:31:03
political observation of the you know MAGA socialism like it's okay if Trump doesn't we're going to panic about the
00:31:08
five cityrun grocery stores in New York but like we're going to let the government take over a 10% stake in a
00:31:15
major company. Uh you know so there's like the obvious hypocrisy on its face there. Um and uh you know it's kind of
00:31:21
funny. I think back to my like heyday as a Republican when like one of like back like 10 15 years ago there was this big
00:31:27
controversy on the right over the XM bank like a federal bank providing loans and I now that was oh government picking
00:31:34
winners and losers and crony capitalism like here we are like literally taking a stake in the company now. So I um I mean
00:31:40
I think that is the outrageous. The thing that worries me about it more than the act than like the substance of
00:31:47
what's happening with with the with Intel is like it is another lever for him to use power to bully kind of who knows right other people right and so
00:31:58
whether that be Intel customers competitors right now like so it's like well we're not going to take a stake
00:32:03
we're not going to take a we're not or excuse me we're not going to have a governing responsibility in the company but the government now still has an
00:32:09
interest in this doing well and Trump does Trump has an emotional interest. He's he's posting about how the stock's
00:32:14
up and how that's good and how it's good. And so like the downstream effects of that is something that is not like
00:32:21
all the way to China but but has some of that flavor where like the government can start to intimidate certain other companies which are the national winners right like but except you don't want the
00:32:32
government in your business essentially and one of the issues is Intel's been suffering for years and years lack of
00:32:37
innovation bad management etc you know for a very long time very it used to be the dominant chipmaker and then just got
00:32:44
got just fell by the wayside side. So there is an argument you made for like helping US companies in the chip area
00:32:51
largely for national security. Well, there was the chips act that was going to do that. Yes, exactly. But the issue is it's not going to make them more innovative by
00:32:57
having the government investment. It's just going to prop them up. Right. And the problems with Intel run a lot deeper
00:33:03
that maybe they should go out of business, maybe they should restructure, maybe they should we shouldn't have the
00:33:08
government deciding to keep them on on on life support, right? It's not life's word, but it's just been it's been
00:33:14
sucking for many CEOs for a long time. And so, you know, the natural thing is let it die and then something else comes up. The problem is we our chip manufacturers are weaker and they're
00:33:25
they're stronger in Taiwan and China and elsewhere. And so, just the fact that governments makes choices like this, they shouldn't they should what they should do is provide research money for all kinds of things. they they should
00:33:38
provide uh encouragement and innovative grants to help people start businesses all of all kinds. Those are fine by me and I think government has I'm fine with manufacturing money,
00:33:48
right? Like we want to make sure that they have, you know, loan guarantees to build plants. So, you know, if like there's a reason interest rates are high
00:33:55
right now. So, like it's it's in the national interest that we're building chip plants. Companies don't want to do
00:34:00
take the risk. The government backs stops that. It's not like my ideal free market system, but that that's like a
00:34:06
defensible thing for the government. This particular market, but it's just a hop, skip, and jump to
00:34:12
other markets, right? Like, let's own this, let's own that. And well, they said that Kevin Hassid is on CNBC this morning saying now we might
00:34:17
start to take chips stakes in other companies. And again, this is this is the bullying part. This is the authoritarian part where it's like, oh,
00:34:24
if you're another company that took money from the chips act or from the IRA, maybe those were good decisions, maybe
00:34:29
they're bad decision. I think that there was probably a bunch of wasted money in in both of those bills, by the way. But like the the companies then at that
00:34:36
point that made that decision should not now be worried that oh, I can't do anything, say anything that might upset
00:34:42
Trump. I can't go on TV and have, you know, grandpa watching his stories see that I'm critical of some policy or else
00:34:49
they might try to take over a stake in the company. Yeah, it's very uh metalsome in a way that's not anti- capitalist. I can see
00:34:55
them in their room. I can see this especially that dumbass um Howard Lutnik like we should have gotten a piece of
00:35:00
Tesla we should have gotten a piece of this but they were bad business no Howard Lut is not a bad business person Trump is arguably
00:35:07
Are you sure he's not a bad business person he seems very stupid he he listen he was sort of the discount
00:35:13
guy on Wall Street when you talk to Wall Street people's like he built a big business but what an idiot I think
00:35:18
that's usually what you but it was like a business nobody want they were like oh that guy's business like sort of like
00:35:24
crazy Eddie Like remember Crazy Eddie a long time ago? It was, you know, of course it went bankrupt that business.
00:35:30
Um I think people don't love Howard Letic Wall Street. They don't have much respect for him. That said, Trump has he
00:35:37
actually has built a business that has lasted and Trump is of course has run this is the idea of real estate dealers,
00:35:44
real estate people running the government like ah what can I get? What can I get? Like what's the vig? And so
00:35:49
it feels mobstery. It feels like you know corrupt. It feels medalsome and it creates, you know, the fact that Tim Cook has to give a gold statue to Trump is a bad thing. Even if he's doing it
00:36:02
for shareholders, it means we live in a banana republic. That's what it means. Yeah. And the whole thing is I laugh at
00:36:07
like how those guys are all like um and I shared some of the critiques of woke identity politics and in in big uh you
00:36:14
know in corporate America. But it was funny that it was like Trump uh uh or Cook rather kind of gave him like a woke right statue like he felt it felt
00:36:25
important for him to say in the presentation. It's like this was made by a you know made by a mega Republican
00:36:32
veteran. Yeah, you can imagine the inverse where Tim Cook comes into comma like here's a statue made by an
00:36:38
indigenous bisexual, you know, like we felt like we needed to do that. Like they felt like he had to do the whole
00:36:45
identity right politics stuff too. The whole thing was very gross. Unnatural acts. They're create they're letting people who should be running
00:36:51
their companies do unnatural acts and it is bad for shareholders in the end. It's not even if they're doing it to help
00:36:57
shareholders so they don't get a bigger tariff. It's an unnatural act. Tim, stop doing unnatural acts.
00:37:03
Can I ask you one uh national nationalization thing because you know I'm a I'm a passionate capitalist. Um
00:37:09
but uh there's one moment there's been one issue kind of in this realm that has tickled my uh socialist pickle which was the idea that maybe we need to nationalize SpaceX.
00:37:19
I was like because that's sort of related to this that's like a kind of a different conversation where that is in the national security interest. No.
00:37:26
Yeah. Maybe they should be working hand and glove. I mean, I think the issue is NASA sort of got out of control in terms
00:37:33
of bureaucratic and not innovative. The only thing is when you're a government agency, you can't make mistakes the way
00:37:38
SpaceX can. And the minute you nationalize it, it can't blow up rockets. And as much as it seems like a
00:37:44
failure to blow up rockets, the way you get to places or get to better innovation is by taking risks. And if
00:37:49
you're a government agency, you cannot take risks by by the definition of a government agency. So I see that they
00:37:56
have to be working very closely with this is the kind of close relationship. Not really a free market though. You can't have unlimited companies in space.
00:38:02
It's kind of like how NBA team ownership is not a real free market like Right. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't I feel like
00:38:08
they're they have brought the cost down because they're they're not a government. There's no they've done well. No doubt. But I don't
00:38:14
know. There's no interest in the government to making things cheaper. Yeah. That's crazy Elon having that much control over
00:38:21
the He does. That's one of the worries. Of course. I suspect that's what they're worried about is you got it's like a bond bill and essentially running
00:38:27
critical infrastructure. Same thing with chips, we have to have a real shift policy and this ain't it. Um, speaking
00:38:33
of something that seems troubling, FBI agents raided the home and office of former Trump national security adviser
00:38:38
John Bolton on Friday. The Trump critic is a subject of national security investigation in search of classified
00:38:44
records. Vice President JD Vance says the raid definitely doesn't have anything to do with Bolton's criticism
00:38:49
of Trump which means it does or rather stems from a quote broad concern about the about Ambassador Bolton. You know
00:38:55
the Wall Street Journal's against this everyone's against this like doing you know I think what they're doing is what
00:39:01
they thought was done to them. So if they didn't like it done to them why are they doing it to others? Um very
00:39:07
retribution revenge. She just threatened Chris Christie I think today or yesterday. Yeah, he's starting to jail
00:39:13
Chris Christie, too. Yeah, the Wall Street Journal editorial board has kind of cracked me up um since
00:39:19
they've been very Trump friendly. They talked about how one of the concerns of him coming back was that he'd run vendettas and uh they wrote quote, "It's
00:39:26
turning out to be worse than we imagined." You don't say. Not me, actually. It's going bright uh just
00:39:32
about exactly how we told you it was going to go. Not not any worse. Um, the Bolton thing, like I just think it's
00:39:37
important to say this because like it's obviously preposterous that like this is not a political attack, but if if you
00:39:43
just replace John Bolton with like uh Mark Meadows or Cory, like imagine it was somebody from the Trump first term that wrote a book that who is still in good graces with Trump and the
00:39:53
accusations that there were classified materials in that book that was written 5 years ago. There's no imaginable world
00:39:59
in which the FBI is raiding the home of a Trump 1.0 you know, cabinet member who
00:40:05
is still an ally, right? Like you just nobody could imagine that if there were a legitimate concern that he had some
00:40:10
classified materials they shouldn't have. Like there's a process for this sort of thing. FBI calls DOJ's lawyers
00:40:16
call their lawyers. You set up a meeting like all you know. So this is this was purely to either overreach, right? That's just the thing that Trump complained about and it
00:40:27
does I think it brings up what Trump did like again like you did it. This is this it's the Trump the Trump example. It's
00:40:33
it's important to just explain the differences. Like in the Mara Lago raid, which I I would listen to the idea that
00:40:39
that maybe that could have been handled in a less aggressive way, but like it's it's not comparable to the Bolton
00:40:45
situation. Like the the the Marlo raid the the you know, the archavist or whatever like you know um said that that
00:40:51
Trump you know brought some materials that that you know are the property of the United States. they shouldn't have,
00:40:58
you know, they asked for um a meeting, denied and they provided a list of what the materials were. Trump lied and said that it wasn't there. They tried to move some of the materials to a different
00:41:09
place, right? So Trump was obstructing the the effort to do this in like the good faith way that is you that this is
00:41:16
generally done and that's why the raid happened. Like that was not the case with John Bolton. They just showed up at
00:41:22
his house. I think because the statute of limitations I suspect is running out on the stuff from the first term which
00:41:27
would be five years now and they did so just to intimidate him. Um Pan Vandi puts out a tweet about it. I don't have it in front of me was something like our national security you know comes first.
00:41:39
It's like nobody thinks that America's security was a threat because of whatever John Bolton has in his house.
00:41:44
Um and you know and and and I think that it it ties kind of to the Intel thing. The thing that worries me about
00:41:50
everything is eventually, and it ties to the Bill Maher thing at the top, like slowly but surely people just decide
00:41:56
it's not worth the hassle, right? Like you get into authoritarianism not through violent coup necessarily, but by
00:42:02
slow burn towards everyone deciding, you know, I'm going to go bring him a trophy to keep him happy. I'm not going to say
00:42:07
anything wrong because I don't want the FBI to come after me. And, you know, eventually consolidate power and that's
00:42:12
closer to like what you've seen in Hungary and other places. Yeah. Well-known centers of innovation,
00:42:18
Hungary. Exactly. Economy is really really thriving in Hungary in Turkey. We want the Turkey model for our country.
00:42:24
Turkey the Turkey model. Anyway, uh we'll see what happens with this. I suspect it'll peter out. They have such
00:42:31
little follow through, but they do cause dam what they do. They're like toddlers. They come in cause damage and little follow through. All right, Tim, let's go
00:42:38
on a quick break. When we come back, Cracker Barrel makes an enemy of the right. Support for the show comes from
00:42:44
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00:43:43
Tim, we're back with more news. Please make sure you're seated for this next emotional topic. Cracker Barrel's logo
00:43:49
change. Uh, the chain has removed the barrel and the man from its logo and conservatives are horrified. Change is
00:43:55
hard, conservatives. Cracker Barrel stock was down 12% in the last 5 days at the time of taping. That's cuz it's
00:44:01
mostly like I haven't been in a Cracker Barrel because they're so anti-gay, right? That's what I remember.
00:44:07
No, they did a Obviously, you don't remember their effort to appeal to Care. A couple years ago, they they did a rainbow rocking chair out during Pride
00:44:14
Month a couple years ago. Whatever. You know, this is [ __ ] ridiculous. This is like it's just a
00:44:20
logo change and the old man seems like old like for they want young people to come. That's my presumption is they've
00:44:26
got too many [ __ ] old people in the place and they need a new they need a new demo. It makes sense from again
00:44:32
meddling in the business like if they want to get rid of the old [ __ ] man, they should get rid of the old man. And the fact that they're all horrified like
00:44:39
they're so they're so sensurious the right when they accuse others of being sensurious and you know they'll either
00:44:46
live or die by the stock going down and maybe they'll put the man back or whatever but it's just I I don't I don't
00:44:52
care. I've got to take a contrary view on this one. Are you ready to fight over Cracker Barrel? Yeah. The logo The new logo is awesome.
00:44:58
When's the last time you went? I haven't been to Cracker Barrel logo. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I've been I haven't been in years. We just every once while go I
00:45:04
think on the drive from DC to the beach there's a Cracker Barrel somewhere but that was many years ago now. Um so I haven't been in a while so I don't
00:45:10
actually have any personal stake or care about this but I do just as an objective observer of the world. The new logo is
00:45:17
awful. The picture that they put out of the new inside of the Cracker Barrel which is more minimalist or whatever is
00:45:23
also awful. And it is part of the broader corporate trend where every logo has to be minimalist now and every store
00:45:29
needs to have clean lines and and we get we need we need diversity of views you know you need diversity of experiences
00:45:36
like the human spirit you know yearns for different types of you know we don't all want Scandinavian clean lines so
00:45:43
some places call for Scandinavian they probably realize most of their clients are about to die right
00:45:48
I think I think you think new people are going to come in though because they want to make it look more like Applebee's I don't Like
00:45:54
the millennials I know are like I'm excited now that we're now they're changing it from the old man old
00:45:59
southern view to a more of a modern Applebee's aesthetic. I think at some point you have to change I it's like it's but
00:46:04
again this is again it's up to the company if they want to do this and they'll either live or die by it right that's my whole thing is
00:46:09
I agree with that I suspect they're looking at the numbers and they're like all the old people we don't have any young they probably know
00:46:16
exactly who's coming into their restaurants and young people are not coming into the Cracker Barrel. They're
00:46:21
just not. And you know, the name itself would probably be changed. Cracker Barrel. Like who what
00:46:29
um you know I kind of like what they're doing in Hooters. They're going though you'd be What are they doing in Hooters? I know nothing about
00:46:34
They're going back to cheesy and booby and like wings like and I'm I'm vaguely offended by Hooters. I don't care. Like if people want to go to those stupid places and they pay those people enough,
00:46:45
I don't know what to say. I think it's gross. But whatever people if you want to go to you know that you want to by
00:46:51
the way all the Hooters waitresses in my experience have been f fuckingastic people and they know the whole [ __ ]
00:46:56
deal with the guys learing their breasts which is like their toddlers looking at them. Um but um I there was a great
00:47:03
story of a gay guy. Who was it who he talked about going to Hooters? His Twitter name was Peter Twinklage.
00:47:10
Twitter great story of of going to going to Hooters and the Hooter waitress helping this guy out and she knew he was
00:47:15
gay, right? The father didn't. Of course the father did because that's why he dragged his sorry ass there. Um, but you
00:47:21
know, I I kind of like that they're going back to it because I thought they're me like just be Hooters just be Hooters. And if they do a nice job of it
00:47:28
and the wings are good, I'm fine with it. I just think this is a company much like oh there's probably a bunch of them
00:47:34
facing real secular change in their usage. So they must have studied this and the people that are being noisier are all sometimes you can overstudy stuff. It's like I feel this way about political ads
00:47:46
where it's like, you know, I'll be in a a meeting where pe, you know, where a super PAC will be
00:47:52
like, "We decided to do this ad because we tested it and and I'm like, most of these tests are so dumb. It's people
00:47:58
that are like playing video games or something and then they show the ad during the commercial break and then you have to say whether you like it or not."
00:48:04
And it's like people don't know them themselves. We're we're trusting this like they're they're just trying to get through the ad. Have the like a lot of
00:48:10
these a lot of these, you know, corporate testing things is a lot of hooy fooy. Um, can I just can I give you one admission since you've admitted the
00:48:16
Hooters uh, you know, come clean on your support for original Hooters. The Cracker Barrel thing for me is tied
00:48:22
to the new Oval Office design and I like the new Oval Office design just like I like the old Cracker Barrel because I
00:48:28
think more is more pro Hooters pro Liberace Oval Office pro original Cracker Barrel. That's where I'm not pro Liberace. Come on. Well, the Oval Office has a Liberace
00:48:40
aesthetic now. I thought Oh, it does. Which I like. It's okay with I don't I think I didn't like when
00:48:45
I saw the comparison I was like look how awful. I'm like the first one was kind of dull like the Biden one
00:48:50
dra right and you know I like a like listen show girls is about to have its 50th anniversary or whatever and I'm up
00:48:57
for anything like that. I like excess I like um all kinds of stuff like that but
00:49:03
it's too much over here now there's way too much [ __ ] gold. Like gold is best. Like if you ever saw that Apple
00:49:08
thing. Um so I think it's too much. I there's there's there there should be pomp and circumstance, but there's way
00:49:15
too much of that. It's a little ud and cus. It's a little much. It wouldn't be my preferred aesthetic, but it is definitely an
00:49:21
upgrade when you look at the comparisons. What else would you put in there? What would your oval office look like?
00:49:26
H that's not really in the in the cards, I don't think. Um so I don't know. Yeah.
00:49:32
I mean, kind of like the bird cage. I don't know. I don't know what gay gay. Yeah. Well, gay. Yeah. It it would combine all of my conflicting interests. You know, we might have a Reagan
00:49:43
portrait, but also a lot of gay stuff. They would live in conflict together. Maybe just Nancy. You know who I'd have design? You know,
00:49:49
Ken Faulk. He's a San Francisco designer. My husband loves Ken Faulk. Yeah. Everything he does is just a
00:49:54
little louch, but I love it. Like, you know, it's just a little bit too much velvet and stuff like that. There's a
00:50:00
occasional dead animal on the wall. I kind of love it. I love it. Looks a wall. I also like the Nancy Meyers aesthetic.
00:50:06
That is kind of a nice one. Do you know you know the director? Those houses that Dian Katon always lives in.
00:50:12
Those are nice. Maybe dumb. They're a little dumb. I know. That's not really for me. I'm not trying to That might be trigger.
00:50:18
It might feel a little suburban. Kind of triggered by my suburban upbringing. I don't want any like the '9s suburban
00:50:24
like Tuskin aesthetic. Anything like that is I have a natural like physical revulsion to.
00:50:30
So yeah, I think I would do more funny stuff, more color. Anyway, I think they should have kept the barrel, gotten rid
00:50:35
of the old man. The barrel needs to be there and there should be crackers there and crackers. All right, last thing. Elon Musk X has agreed uh to a tenative settlement to settle lawsuit filed by
00:50:47
former Twitter employees who say they are owed $500 million in severance. Musk fired around 6,000 employees after
00:50:52
acquiring Twitter and of course he didn't pay them. In other Musk news, he also asked Mark Zuckerberg to help him
00:50:57
finance a $97 billion takeover Open AI in early 2025 according to court filings in a case between Musk and Open AAI. obviously didn't happen. Oh, thank God. But Mark,
00:51:08
thank God. I guess. Isn't that kind Isn't this kind of like an Iran Iraq war situation? Who are you rooting for in Altman vers Zuckerberg?
00:51:15
The bullets is what Scott always says. You're rooting for the bullets. Um, you know, this I know a little bit about
00:51:20
this payment and I'll just say really briefly, I I've met with a lot of the people who they owe money to. And look,
00:51:26
if you want to fire people Elon, that's fine. That's your business. But pay them what they're owed. That's it. That's
00:51:32
it's just it makes you like an [ __ ] not to pay them their severance. Even if you don't like what they did before,
00:51:37
that was the agreement they were taken over. As to his open AI thing, just stop. You know, Sam Alman is not
00:51:45
interested in you. So, stop bothering that company. You You walked yourself out of there like an idiot when you were
00:51:51
there from the beginning because you of your ego and your need for control. You don't have it. Just try to make a good
00:51:57
company on your own. That's my feeling about that. Any thoughts? I don't I don't have any thoughts on the Twitter following, so I agree with everything
00:52:02
you said. Um, while we're admitting to bad opinions that we have about aesthetics, I also kind of like the the
00:52:08
Zuckerberg [ __ ] boy rebrand. I think that that's been good for him. So, I support that. Is he a [ __ ] boy?
00:52:14
Kind of. I mean, the gold chain and the and the and the what do they the kids call it? The lettuce hair.
00:52:19
Yeah. Okay. Would you go out with him? Do you think he's attractive? Not really for Well, not really for me.
00:52:24
Um, no. I don't think so. I I guess I had to pick between him and Al I probably originally would have said Sam
00:52:30
Alman, but I don't know. The Sam Sam's recent interviews are pretty creepy. Like he's starting to move into the uncanny valley for me a little bit.
00:52:37
Oh, interesting. How so? Tell me. Explain. I don't I don't know. I just I like the um
00:52:43
um the like I I get him in my TikTok a lot. I guess kind of how you're consuming me. Like he does all these podcast interviews where he's talking about what we want for the show. like did you see
00:52:54
his Theo Vaughn interview and he's and like his projections about what is coming and you know and how um you know
00:53:04
people are just going to have to get used to a world where they're like robot humans walking around on the street everywhere and where like a lot of people's real friends are
00:53:15
computer friends and where he's I I just the whole thing is getting a little creepy for me and he seems to kind of be
00:53:22
leaning into that like that And I think I just think I'm misaligned with him for what I would like to see an AI future
00:53:29
look like. It's just one man's opinion for one. Well, it's an important man's opinion kind of. Yeah, but there's been Open AIs have
00:53:35
come and gone. Like I don't mean to be, but like remember Yahoo was huge and then it wasn't. Like these things and they are definitely in a more precarious
00:53:42
position. They're either Netscape or they're Google, right? That said, Google didn't run the show on everything
00:53:48
eventually and even they struggled at Darious Times. I feel like look, he wants to he he's sort of styling himself
00:53:53
like Steve Jobs. So he's trying to say important Yeah. controversial things and so nobody is
00:54:00
Steve Jobs that everyone's trying to grab that mantle and there will be not another one like that. And so that's
00:54:06
what you're hearing. What's your alarm level and all that stuff on these on these guys, these ego
00:54:11
maniacs deciding what our AI future is going to look like? We've already seen what happened. So we're going to see this. I think the
00:54:17
government in this case needs to be much more involved with with guidance, guard rails and regulations as you know. Um I
00:54:24
don't like a small group of people not diverse in any way making decisions for the rest of us. That's all. Just like I
00:54:31
didn't like, you know, as much as I like train daddy on on the guilded age, they decided where the roads went. They decided where the things went. And our whole country has to live in the reality
00:54:42
they create. And I'm not so pleased with that either. Although I like Train Daddy quite a bit, oddly enough,
00:54:48
I don't have any takes on Train Daddy, but I'll learn about it. You need to watch The Guilded Age because all the gays love Train Daddy,
00:54:54
just so you know. Okay. He's really great. Uh, speaking of which, it cracks me up with Gavin Usen every time uh that Jesse Waters calls
00:55:01
him daddy. He's like, I'm not interested. His his use of like gay taunts is so I I'm not a Everyone's like, aren't you offended? I'm like, no, I love them. I don't know about how you
00:55:12
feel. I like a gay taunt. I I like a gay taunt too. I sometime the only time I get
00:55:18
offended on this thing is sometimes I feel like and maybe it's just because as a gay former Republican I get a lot of
00:55:24
incoming on this. Sometimes I feel like the liberals in my life are like way too excited to make like gay slurs about
00:55:31
Lindsey Graham and like the MAGA gays. And I and I like a little a little joke about Lady G. I'm fine with that. But
00:55:37
sometimes it's like the tone where like I kind of feel like you're just you've just been very you've just had this pent
00:55:43
up desire to make homophobic jokes and now you feel like you can because Lindsey Graham is the target and and and
00:55:49
it comes out a little too enthusiastic for my taste. I guess agree I'm 100% on your I'm talking about
00:55:54
more like when they actively go out of their way to like to to slap back at it. But I agree with you. I just look
00:56:01
whatever journey Lindsey Graham is on is his journey. It is hypocritical obviously, but when has that not
00:56:07
happened? Do you remember during the Reagan administration that was crawling with they were crawling with gays and they
00:56:13
were doing anti-gay things. In that case, I think it's perfectly okay, but the stakes were, you know, with AIDS
00:56:19
were so massive at the time. It seemed like they are massive now, too. Um, their their attacks on gay marriage
00:56:25
right now are really quite Are you worried about that? I don't know. I I keep telling people I think that the trans if I I I am acutely
00:56:31
worried if I'm transgender, if I'm a migrant and I think those are very acute crises right now and we should we should
00:56:37
really focus on them. The gay marriage thing I kind of I I just would be maybe I'm wrong but I
00:56:42
don't know. I think that there are people that are uh very intent on still angry about gay
00:56:49
marriage and they are they they just sit there and they see and they work and they work and they work to overturn it.
00:56:54
That's right. I think it's a losing fight for them. the abortion. I think a lot on the left thought the abortion thing would be a losing fight for them
00:57:00
and and and and they and they compare the the two issues and they kind of conflate them and I just I think for a variety of
00:57:06
reasons like gay marriage is like a 70% issue in the country and I think it would be a pretty big
00:57:11
it hasn't stopped them on a lot of things right control that's I I think there is a group of dedicated anti-gay
00:57:18
people that have never I've always thought they've never gone away and everyone's like now we won I'm like have we you know I think you should be
00:57:24
vigilant with these people I I think they would very much like to do a lot of things to women and gay
00:57:30
people that are really disturbing and so and set them back and they they articulate it now and you see it even
00:57:37
the things Vance pushes but like it's noteworthy the change in how unbridled they are now like they feel totally now unshackled to say their real feelings about gay people like
00:57:50
there was a period of time where I think people were like this there'll be backlash against me or this isn't and you're not seeing that anymore. more.
00:57:56
And I think that's that's revealing in some way. I think it's bad. I I worry about it for younger uh LGBT uh people.
00:58:03
Um but um I also in some ways I think it's it's nice for it to be revealing that we can see the score a little bit.
00:58:09
See, I've always thought they were like this. I never thought they were friendly to us for a minute. And by the way, they they are committed to overturning
00:58:16
marriage, some of those people. And guess what? We're committed not to. So that's the the part that that I think
00:58:22
you can you'll see how that's going to go. trying to take my marriage away from me. All right, Tim, one more quick
00:58:29
break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Tim, let's hear some wins and fails. I will go first. Um, I think uh
00:58:38
it's sort of a fail this Trump's cankle thing. I know people are like, uh, it's really odd. I have to say Alex Jones is
00:58:45
concerned about Trump's health. He warned last week at the current trajectory, Trump is going to have some sort of collapse within the next 12
00:58:51
months. Thank you, Dr. Jones. You terrible, heinous. Speaking of heinous [ __ ] Trump's hands are also looking
00:58:56
questionable with all those odd smears of makeup. You think he could do better as the president? He had a weird walking
00:59:03
thing. The age is, as I have said, the cognitive decline and the age decline is real. And he, let me tell you, he's a
00:59:08
lively old man. That's for sure. Like, he's the he's the guy in the in the in the nursing home that's just real
00:59:14
lively, but still going to keel over at any moment. Could kill over at any moment. Uh, I think that's I think they
00:59:20
I'm not sure why they aren't controlling this. Um, especially with the makeup and everything else, largely because he's
00:59:27
probably very vain and everything else, but he's he's obviously aged rather significantly in so many ways. And I
00:59:33
think it's taking its toll on him. Um, it feels like he's rotting. It feels like when Voldemort was starting to rot,
00:59:38
like when he wasn't getting enough dead people that we uh we can't see his real face is
00:59:43
something that's true now. the leader will not show us what he really looks like because um it's you know he's he's
00:59:50
so fragile now. He he looks like he was on ompic but now he looks fat again. I'm like something's
00:59:56
going on with his health. I think I don't think that's a win or a fail. I just feel like just want to mention I don't think I just want to mention it
01:00:02
because I I think people are like oh let's not mention. I'm like no no he looks if we're going to like we should have mentioned more things about Biden
01:00:07
and Scott and I did and gotten a lot of crap this he looks there's something going on. cankles are noteworthy and the
01:00:13
if the cankles are as wide as Alex Jones's neck, you know that there's something concerning there.
01:00:19
Remember when they attacked Hillary Clinton's cankles? Just saying. I don't recall that. It's good for the g
01:00:24
for the gander. No, it wasn't you. It's good for the goose. Um and my my win is the fantastic once again. We have the new version of Wicked coming and it's only in three months and I think their
01:00:36
social media campaign is fantastic and they've done a great job. I love John Chu. Um he's going to be here in DC next couple next week. I'm gonna see him hopefully. Um I just am very excited
01:00:48
about uh about that movie and I just I'm not going to hide it. I love it and I love the actors in it and I think
01:00:54
they're doing a spectacular marketing job on it and I just love to watch uh people use social media in a really
01:01:00
positive way and I like it gives me pleasure. Your win and fail. All right. Well, I wasn't planning this
01:01:05
one, but if we're doing, you know, musical shoutouts, I should win for I I have to give my Oasis guys a win. I
01:01:11
mean, they they reunited. Nobody said they could do it. They're coming to America now this week. They'll be back. Nobody ever thought they
01:01:16
explain why this is a big deal. The brothers null and Liam Gallagher, they are brothers. They were very um
01:01:22
seawword in the British sense. I still won't say that in your presence, Cara, but like kind of Englishmen who drank a
01:01:28
lot and fought together. And obviously, folks will know Wonder Wall or Champagne Supernova, some of their famous songs.
01:01:33
They've been broken up for 16 years. They spent most of the decade in a half [ __ ] tucking each other in the press and the idea was like they never would get
01:01:39
back together. They're back together. I went to one of their shows in Manchester and in their reunion shows and now that
01:01:44
now was good. Are they good? It was it was biblical. It was unbelievable. It was amazing. He sounds amazing. I think
01:01:50
he must have quit smoking or got a vocal coach cuz I I you know I uh sometimes you'll go to see the aging rock stars. I
01:01:56
hate to I I went to see Pearl Jam at Jazzfest and it's like, you know, you can just tell sometimes,
01:02:02
you know, the last Madonna concert. That's how I felt. It was rough. Yeah. So, um, not the case with Liam. He sounds amazing. They sound
01:02:08
amazing. Everyone was so excited because people who are into OSIS are really into it. Like the crowd around me knew every word. It was wonderful. So, that was a
01:02:14
win. Good. The one that that I planned on doing was I was the on serious level. I was going
01:02:20
to give Putin a win in their little summit in Alaska because No, I don't really have much. which is obvious now.
01:02:25
When it had happened, there was like you know I think I think even some people were like well maybe Trump will
01:02:30
get like you know like maybe this thing will finally start to start to um you know uh recede and and Putin will you know get some deal out of it. Trump will you know give him some crypto or you
01:02:42
know some parts of Ukraine and Trump and then obviously at this point he was just totally used by Putin in a way that's
01:02:48
like really embarrassing at this point like the red carpet roll out. Uh my fail is to like the de um the as somebody who
01:02:56
prefers to centrist Democrats, shout out to my girl Jerusalem Dempsey started the argument, a new kind of center-left um
01:03:03
uh Democratic outlet. Like I but just my advice to them is I like their their treatment of Zoron is so bad. It's such
01:03:10
a fail. I I do not understand what they're doing. They're limiting their own power in the future of the party.
01:03:15
People are like very excited about Zoron. I've got issues with some of his policies. I had him on the pod and we
01:03:21
argued about a couple various things and and so you don't have to full throttedly say you endorsed everything, but there's
01:03:26
so much enthusiasm for him and you're going to get overthrown if you're Hakee or Chuck Schumer or any of
01:03:32
these guys that aren't like there there people are going to get pissed and overthrow you if you do not at least
01:03:38
listen when I would the scavenger hunt was brilliant. Again, he's very cany and a
01:03:44
really interesting community. If someone was like, "I went and I met dozen people." Like, "That was cool." Like, he
01:03:50
really is appealing. I agree. I I went out to dinner. I think I said that it was the senator. I'm not going to say who it was. Who was like belly aching
01:03:56
about him. I'm like, "Why don't you go watch what he's [ __ ] doing before you did it?" You also have no other choice. Who are you going to back? Eric Adams. Like,
01:04:02
like what, you know, uh, Andrew, like a sex pest who had to resign in disgrace, who's already gotten beaten by your own
01:04:09
voters. The whole thing is really frustrating. Voters said this and therefore, let's go
01:04:14
with the vote. young people. You complain and complain and complain about young people's engagement. They're engaged. You complain about that. Like
01:04:21
they really are a bunch of wimpis wimpes. Then they could say, "I don't agree with him on this, but I kind of think he's cool." That kind of thing.
01:04:27
Or he's doing this thing well. Or I'm happy. Or how about even simply, I'm happy to endorse him just because the
01:04:33
other options are so awful. That's okay. like any there are a lot of options besides, you know, just doing the
01:04:39
hemming and aawing. And one well-known person we both know was saying, "Well, I wasn't asked to endorse. Why are people giving me a hard time for not endorsing?" I'm like, "You
01:04:49
don't need to be asked. Just say what a cool, interesting politician he is. We don't agree on everything, but pretty
01:04:56
[ __ ] cool." Yeah. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
01:05:02
to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere this week on on with Carara Swisser. I talked with
01:05:08
graphic novelist Allison Beckdell and editorial cartoonist Anne Telness. Let's listen to a clip of an explaining how she draws Trump. My readers are the ones that always point out to me because I
01:05:19
never notice I'm changing every time. They're like, "Okay, he's starting to look like a big mouth bass now."
01:05:25
And I'm like, "Okay, I I can go with that." you know, they say he's a pig and I'm like, "Well, I like pigs. Don't tell
01:05:30
me that." You know, so, you know, like I said, it's just really I try to find out. I'm trying to
01:05:37
show you what I think the insides of that person is more than the outside. Is there one particular body part that
01:05:43
you think is besides the tie, little hands, tiny tiny hands? They were great. It's really we don't pay enough. Cartoonists are doing God's
01:05:53
work at this point. Um, and an is had left the Washington Post. Uh Allison of course is such a talented cartoonist.
01:06:00
She has a new book called Spent. Really interesting conversation about the visualization of our politics that goes
01:06:05
way back in our history. Thomas Nast and her block and others. Uh okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot
01:06:12
and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Uh Tim, thank you so much. You
01:06:18
are you are also doing God's work. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me here. It was such a pleasure. interesting and cany and I
01:06:24
like that you have different takes and and I like that you like the gold oval office. That's what you'll be remembered for.
01:06:31
You and I would go to a Liberace show. I love Liberace. So, I also like Don Ho. I'm in that zone. All right, I'll read
01:06:37
us out. Today's show was produced by Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Enderdott
01:06:43
engineered this episode. Jim M edited this video. Special thanks to Kate Gallagher. Nishad Kerw is Vox Media's
01:06:50
executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot
01:06:56
from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod.
01:07:02
We'll be back later this week for our last breakdown of all things tech and business before Scott Free August ends.
01:07:08
We've got a very big name, a very person who calls who calls himself the most handsome governor in the country. We'll see what that means. You'll find out.
01:07:18
Thanks, Tim. Thanks, Cara. Say hey to Gavin.