00:00:00
The biggest psychological tax cut in
00:00:03
history would be if we elected a
00:00:06
technocrat
00:00:08
who maybe checked in once a month.
00:00:10
>> Yeah, I agree.
00:00:11
>> But wasn't in your face every [ __ ]
00:00:13
day and dominating the table
00:00:15
conversation at dinner.
00:00:22
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:24
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:26
Network. I'm Cara Swisser with my annual
00:00:28
cold. Nice.
00:00:30
>> Uh, it seems it seems to be semianual.
00:00:32
See, the thing is it's kids.
00:00:34
>> Yeah, it is. But I haven't gotten sick
00:00:35
for a while, actually.
00:00:37
>> Yeah,
00:00:37
>> it's been a while. Very long. You
00:00:39
remember I got sick all the time when
00:00:40
they were babies.
00:00:41
>> I do remember that.
00:00:42
>> Yeah.
00:00:42
>> So, I'm I'm This is going to sound very
00:00:45
maha, but I think I've been sick two or
00:00:47
three times as an adult, and I'm
00:00:49
convinced it's because I never went to
00:00:50
the doctor and never had antibiotics as
00:00:51
a kid.
00:00:52
>> Oh, interesting. What? Really? That's
00:00:54
>> I get sick on the dime every 10 years.
00:00:57
>> Really? Of what?
00:00:58
>> I don't get sick. I have a cough or
00:01:00
something. But no, my point is I I
00:01:02
couldn't tell you the last time I was
00:01:03
sick.
00:01:04
>> Anyway, let's get to the news. As we
00:01:06
record, Cole Thomas Allen, the
00:01:07
31-year-old suspect in the White House
00:01:09
correspondent's dinner shooting, is set
00:01:10
to be arraigned in federal court. He'll
00:01:13
be charged with two counts of using a
00:01:14
firearm and one count of assault on a
00:01:16
federal official using a dangerous
00:01:18
weapon. US Attorney for DC Janine Piro
00:01:21
says more charges are expected. Alan was
00:01:24
arrested Saturday night after running
00:01:25
through a security checkpoint at the
00:01:27
Washington Hilton and exchanging fire
00:01:29
with law enforcement. Um, President
00:01:32
Trump and top officials were rushed out
00:01:33
of the room while journalists and other
00:01:34
attendees took cover under the tables
00:01:37
except one guy who kept eating his
00:01:38
salad. Um, the motive is still being
00:01:41
determined though Allen appeared to be
00:01:43
targeting Trump and the administration
00:01:44
officials but not Cash Patel for some
00:01:47
reason. According to his writings, he
00:01:49
also mentioned lack security and that he
00:01:50
expected more security there. He was a
00:01:53
guest at the hotel and he walked very
00:01:55
close to the ballroom. I have been there
00:01:57
and various people are debating it, but
00:02:00
he was very close. He's right before the
00:02:02
stairs that you go down into the
00:02:03
ballroom um having been there. Um we'll
00:02:06
get to to Trump and the the ballroom
00:02:09
stuff, but what was your initial
00:02:11
reaction and what do you make of the
00:02:12
coverage? I was I I was not I there's
00:02:15
some people did a great job and it's
00:02:17
worth noting by the way the president
00:02:19
cabinet officials and journalists
00:02:20
experience Saturday night is something
00:02:21
that many Americans face every day
00:02:23
especially school kids though without
00:02:25
the protection of the Secret Service. So
00:02:27
this was the finest protection in the
00:02:28
land and it didn't really work as well
00:02:30
as it should have. Um although nobody
00:02:33
got hurt um except for one officer uh
00:02:35
who was shot. Your first thoughts? Well,
00:02:38
my first thoughts were somewhat
00:02:40
superficial on that is the brand that is
00:02:41
the US is just eroding around the world.
00:02:44
You know, Putin isn't chased out by a
00:02:46
gunman of a hall that's supposed to be a
00:02:48
social gathering. It just America comes
00:02:51
across as a rogue nation that is chaotic
00:02:54
and has no control internally. But
00:02:57
immediately, I don't think I don't think
00:03:00
it's fair to say that the president is
00:03:01
so incendiary that this is his fault.
00:03:03
Nor do I think it's fair to say that the
00:03:05
Democrats being critical of the
00:03:07
president raises ele escalation of
00:03:09
violence. I think at the end of the day,
00:03:14
you have a large cohort of of usually
00:03:17
young men who have a mental breakdown or
00:03:20
a psychotic break and then they have
00:03:23
access to firearms and they typically go
00:03:26
after in what they believe will be a
00:03:28
restoration of social capital and a
00:03:30
heroic act of violence. They go after
00:03:32
very very famous people. And the thing
00:03:34
about Trump, and I'm not saying his
00:03:35
fault, but it is just a fact.
00:03:37
>> He's in everyone's [ __ ] face and in
00:03:40
their brain all goddamn day over and
00:03:42
over and over.
00:03:44
>> Yeah.
00:03:44
>> He's like the biggest psychological tax
00:03:48
cut in history
00:03:50
>> would be if we elected a technocrat
00:03:53
who maybe checked in once a month.
00:03:56
>> Yeah, I agree. but wasn't in your face
00:03:58
every [ __ ] day and dominating the
00:04:00
table conversation at dinner. And so the
00:04:04
most famous people will always
00:04:06
unfortunately be targets that that that
00:04:09
mental illness will manifest in more
00:04:11
shootings as long as people have access
00:04:14
this type of access to guns. If he had
00:04:16
tried to fly, he wouldn't have been able
00:04:18
to do it. But you can cross state lines
00:04:20
on a train with firearms. Also, my first
00:04:23
and I'll let you go. My also my first
00:04:25
reaction is when I heard about this guy,
00:04:27
a Caltech grad who was teacher of the
00:04:30
year.
00:04:30
>> He's a very good writer by the way
00:04:32
>> and he's very eloquent. You read his
00:04:34
manifesto and it's like Jesus, I don't
00:04:36
agree with it, but the guy is
00:04:38
>> it's just such a tragedy. His life is
00:04:40
ruined.
00:04:41
>> Yeah.
00:04:41
>> And to see to see an event I think the
00:04:44
event is [ __ ] stupid. I was invited
00:04:45
last year. I have no desire as part of
00:04:48
what I'll call the fringe alternative
00:04:49
media show up and have basically a
00:04:51
hijacker lecture me about air safety. I
00:04:54
do not understand how people in the
00:04:57
media go to a go to a celebration in
00:05:00
ties to hear a man say you're fake news
00:05:02
and you're I I have no idea why anyone
00:05:04
would show. Kudos to the New York Times
00:05:06
who does not go.
00:05:07
>> There were times reporters there
00:05:08
covering the president in the pool which
00:05:11
seems perfectly appropriate. They travel
00:05:13
with him wherever he goes. But I have to
00:05:15
say I just I covered it as back as I've
00:05:18
noticed you said I covered it back in
00:05:19
the Truman administration. Um I mean I
00:05:23
mean the Roosevelt administration tr
00:05:26
>> I got that I got that wrong. I'm sorry.
00:05:28
It was um it was uh yeah that's right. I
00:05:30
was going to I was waiting for I
00:05:32
couldn't remember FDR.
00:05:33
>> I hated it when I covered it 20ome years
00:05:35
ago. I thought it was such a suckup
00:05:38
between um public officials and the
00:05:40
media. I don't like the grid iron
00:05:42
dinner. I don't like any of I hated
00:05:44
covering them. And even then it seemed
00:05:46
like so um it's one of the reasons I
00:05:48
left Washington sort of the the cozy
00:05:51
relationship. And now he was going to
00:05:54
come and insult them. First of all,
00:05:55
everyone in that room in his cabinet has
00:05:58
taken shots at the press in a really
00:05:59
repulsive way. And even though other
00:06:02
presidents have been hostile to the
00:06:03
press, this is explicit attacks. Um and
00:06:06
so he was ready to and even Carolyn
00:06:08
Levit said it. He's some shots will be
00:06:10
fired. That's the last thing she said
00:06:12
like minutes before this happened to a a
00:06:15
media person. And he was going to attack
00:06:17
everyone. And I was thinking I was
00:06:19
talking to a few people there. I'm like,
00:06:20
"What are you going to do if he starts
00:06:22
directly attacking you or your company?
00:06:25
You're going to get up and walk in a
00:06:27
really gross and crass way, which he was
00:06:29
planning to do, I believe." Um, and then
00:06:32
of course he used the opportunity for
00:06:34
propaganda. Every single one of his
00:06:36
lackeyis messaged the same thing about
00:06:38
the ballroom. We'll get to that in a
00:06:40
second. Um, and and it just is this sort
00:06:43
of and I thought the press were
00:06:45
especially lap lap doggy throughout and
00:06:48
also performative as influencers. Three
00:06:52
people stood out as doing their job,
00:06:54
which was Wolf Blitzer, who happened to
00:06:55
be near the gunman. He just called in
00:06:58
from his phone and he said, "What
00:06:59
happened?" That's it. He didn't say, "I
00:07:01
I lost my shoe." Which he apparently
00:07:03
did. He didn't say, "Oh, wo is me." He
00:07:06
didn't act like um it was anything but
00:07:09
his job to say to tell CNN what
00:07:11
happened. Same thing with Sarah Seidner.
00:07:13
Very calm. Same thing actually with
00:07:14
Stephanie Rule. Tons of people both
00:07:16
online, especially online and on on the
00:07:20
air were like this is how I feel about
00:07:23
this. And I was like I don't give a [ __ ]
00:07:25
what you feel about it. What is
00:07:26
happening? What's going on? Um and a lot
00:07:29
of like there was one reporter who was
00:07:32
pointing the camera towards herself.
00:07:34
like I don't not what was happening like
00:07:37
I'm under the table. I'm like good for
00:07:39
you if you're going to do this pointed
00:07:41
outwards so we can see what's there was
00:07:43
plenty of video by the way which was
00:07:45
disturbing but um it just was this like
00:07:48
all these media people trying to behave
00:07:50
like and get their licks in like they
00:07:53
were influencers and I just and then of
00:07:55
course the influencers were too you know
00:07:57
doing you know all manner of nonsense.
00:08:00
So I found it very disappointing in the
00:08:02
press conference after they let him get
00:08:04
away with stuff. The only you know at
00:08:05
one point Norah O'Donnell from CBS which
00:08:08
has been particularly obsequious to
00:08:10
Trump got the interview but Norah did
00:08:12
try her best to do like tough question
00:08:15
not tough questions but pertinent
00:08:17
questions and Trump called her disgrace.
00:08:19
So he had just minutes just the day
00:08:22
before talked about unity and then he
00:08:24
was talk he was calling her a disgrace
00:08:26
and you're discuss whatever whatever
00:08:27
words he uses for the press. So, I
00:08:29
thought it was a fail. I thought init
00:08:32
the whole thing is a fail. Um, but it's
00:08:35
uh and then there was I mean a party I
00:08:37
happened to have been invited to which I
00:08:38
didn't go to obviously after they kept
00:08:41
doing the party, you know, it's just
00:08:44
weird. Anyway,
00:08:45
>> but we don't in a in a culture of
00:08:47
violence or again for me at all reverse
00:08:49
engineers do. We don't have a monopoly
00:08:51
on political division. We don't have a
00:08:53
monopoly on mentally ill men. We have a
00:08:55
monopoly on political division mentally
00:08:57
ill men with access to just such easy
00:08:59
access to firearms and also
00:09:02
>> the secret service. There's only so much
00:09:04
you can do if you want a president to go
00:09:06
out in the public. If you want to be
00:09:07
able to walk around freely
00:09:08
>> the most disappointing thing
00:09:10
>> that there was more private security
00:09:11
employed in America than there are cops
00:09:13
now and the secret service can only do
00:09:17
so much. The other thing is this levy is
00:09:18
such an enormous tax on us. One,
00:09:22
one of the things I love about my school
00:09:23
here in London, you know what they don't
00:09:25
have?
00:09:26
>> They do not have shooter drills.
00:09:28
>> Yeah.
00:09:28
>> I I just don't think any 11year-old
00:09:31
should have to engage in a shooter
00:09:33
drill. I just something's wrong, right?
00:09:36
And
00:09:38
the other tax we're about to all pay as
00:09:40
someone who travels a lot. I travel a
00:09:42
lot to hotels where there'll be some
00:09:43
political event or whatever or they're
00:09:46
hosting the president of Finland. It's
00:09:49
going to be another [ __ ] 10 minutes
00:09:50
to get in and out of a hotel now because
00:09:52
part of the security lapse here was this
00:09:54
guy figured out a hack and that is just
00:09:57
staying at the hotel being a guest. You
00:09:59
get past the first level of security.
00:10:00
>> He could have gotten all the way to the
00:10:01
ballroom without that. I have to tell
00:10:04
you it's
00:10:04
>> But didn't he have did wasn't it easier
00:10:06
because he checked into the hotel?
00:10:08
>> He could bring his gun in. Yes. But he
00:10:10
could have hidden a gun easily. There
00:10:12
there is so little I've go I don't go to
00:10:15
these things anymore cuz there's so
00:10:16
little security. And then the fact that
00:10:18
you have to do security. I I mean
00:10:19
although I have to say there was there
00:10:21
was more security at a concert than you
00:10:24
know than anything else that I've been
00:10:26
to. But this should be the top level of
00:10:28
security. And then you had the whole
00:10:29
press corps hiding under tables. It's
00:10:32
just the whole visual is so bad. And
00:10:34
then the per and then Trump of course
00:10:36
took advantage of it in the aftermath of
00:10:38
the shooting. He was quick to say the
00:10:40
incident underscored the need for his
00:10:42
$400 million White House ballroom. He
00:10:44
argued that if the event had been held
00:10:46
in a military top secret ballroom,
00:10:48
whatever that is, the shooting never
00:10:50
would have happened. Of course, well,
00:10:51
no, the White House has been attacked.
00:10:53
But still, um, it's not just Trump. MAGA
00:10:56
accounts and I said administration
00:10:57
officials started like acting ag Todd
00:11:00
Blanch are tweeting about the ballroom
00:11:02
instantly. There were con, of course,
00:11:04
the worst part about it were these
00:11:06
conspiracy theories floating around from
00:11:08
the left and the right claiming the
00:11:10
shooting was staged or that they let him
00:11:12
in so that they could create a situation
00:11:14
so that they can pitch the ballroom or
00:11:17
that it wasn't they had him in a holding
00:11:19
room. Uh, you know, this that was in
00:11:22
insane, you know.
00:11:24
>> So, so ju just a just a quick comment
00:11:26
because I'm I'm really I'm asking this
00:11:28
question and I'm open to learning here
00:11:29
because I purposely try to avoid media
00:11:31
this weekend.
00:11:33
the notion that okay this is the world
00:11:36
we live in both sides will try and make
00:11:38
political hay of it that in fact one use
00:11:42
of the ballroom might be an an ability
00:11:44
to have more secure events like this or
00:11:46
events like this with more security to
00:11:48
me distinct of the im immediate
00:11:51
politicization of a of a violent event
00:11:53
or near violent event was wrong but that
00:11:55
argument to me seems reasonable your
00:11:58
thoughts
00:11:58
>> yes yes but not the way he did it and
00:12:01
he's just trying to jam it through he
00:12:02
just tore down the house without any he
00:12:04
is supposed to consult with Congress.
00:12:06
He's he just he just wanted to jam it
00:12:08
through. There's also a whole facility
00:12:09
under there that nobody knows anything
00:12:11
about. Probably should they. Um but the
00:12:15
except for the right people, but um who
00:12:17
whose job it is is to protect the White
00:12:19
House. Um there's no question they need
00:12:21
a ballroom at the White House. I've gone
00:12:22
there a million times and it's really
00:12:25
underwhelming as a as a facility. That
00:12:27
said, this event couldn't have fit in
00:12:29
that. It's too small. the even though
00:12:31
the ballroom is ridiculously large. So
00:12:33
he the fact that he took the opportunity
00:12:36
for something it could have never taken
00:12:37
place there um was one thing but I don't
00:12:41
I I'm not I don't equivalent
00:12:45
for lots of reasons for Prince King
00:12:49
Charles etc etc bringing more people in
00:12:52
having more events there although that's
00:12:54
a thing of it in and of itself if you've
00:12:56
ever tried to get in and out of the
00:12:57
White House that takes 3 years sometimes
00:13:00
um but that's not the it's not linked I
00:13:03
link it suddenly here and and it just
00:13:05
seemed like oh let's you any opportunity
00:13:08
of a disaster or a tragedy to push for
00:13:11
something that is unreasonable to have a
00:13:14
ballroom. It's unreasonable how he did
00:13:16
it and then use this as an excuse to do
00:13:19
so. I think it just is it makes us look
00:13:21
just lots of people don't want the
00:13:23
ballroom. Most people think it's a good
00:13:26
idea if he had done it in the way where
00:13:28
he's consulting architects, where he's
00:13:30
consulting Congress and everything else.
00:13:32
Instead, he's now going to try to shove
00:13:33
it through. And then the instant
00:13:35
something tragic happens, MAGA accounts
00:13:38
and these administration officials,
00:13:39
every opportunity is an opportunity for
00:13:42
press in order to to to either shine up
00:13:46
himself as a hero of some sort or to get
00:13:50
what he wants. And that to me is not how
00:13:52
America works. I'm sorry. I just I I
00:13:54
agree with you. It's reasonable to think
00:13:55
we should have a ballroom, but they
00:13:57
could only hold a certain amount of
00:13:59
things in this ballroom even gargantuan
00:14:02
size.
00:14:03
>> I just thought you just walk away. You
00:14:05
always want to walk away with this was
00:14:07
right, this was wrong, this is who's at
00:14:09
fault. I just looked at this and just
00:14:11
said, "This is bad." I just
00:14:13
>> You're right. I think
00:14:14
>> there's not I don't think it illuminates
00:14:16
anything about Democrats or Republicans
00:14:18
or the president. I think what it
00:14:19
illuminates is our country is in a
00:14:22
terrible state and and okay, let me
00:14:24
blame someone. I just I think in 30
00:14:27
years we're going to look back on this
00:14:28
era and we're we're going to be just
00:14:32
horrified at how we put cyanide in our
00:14:34
drinking water called social media
00:14:36
>> and kept drinking it
00:14:37
>> and just it makes everyone more
00:14:40
Americans are fearful of their neighbors
00:14:43
than Russian soldiers pouring over the
00:14:45
border in Ukraine. They're convinced the
00:14:47
enemy is the guy with the wrong
00:14:49
political sign across the street from
00:14:51
him or her. And every day you're taught
00:14:54
to believe in what is a page out of the
00:14:58
fascist handbook, which is incredibly
00:15:00
unfortunately profitable. You're taught
00:15:02
to believe that it's the enemy within.
00:15:05
It's not climate change. It's not income
00:15:07
inequality. It's not it's not a fascist
00:15:10
government or someone trying to invade
00:15:13
Europe. It's not the cease. The enemy is
00:15:16
within is us.
00:15:17
>> Is us. The enemy is us. No, I agree with
00:15:19
you. It feels very McCarthy era and
00:15:21
you're right. The constant non-stop
00:15:23
pitching. I don't I think the media
00:15:25
Trump has been doing prop propaganda for
00:15:28
a decade now. It's a decade in our
00:15:30
brains and the media still hasn't
00:15:32
figured out how to cover him. They
00:15:34
should get back to the important things.
00:15:36
Iran, affordability, gas prices. You
00:15:39
know, I do think the Epstein files is an
00:15:41
important story. I don't think it's the
00:15:42
most important story, but it talks it's
00:15:44
about corruption, about corruption,
00:15:46
about um getting getting kids safe in
00:15:50
schools. Like, if this is an opportunity
00:15:52
to talk about kids if they suddenly feel
00:15:54
nervous cuz they had a toss under the
00:15:56
table to understand what it's like for
00:15:58
kids, fine. Like, I don't care. I just
00:16:00
think no one behaved in any way that was
00:16:03
any way that is American to me. Anyway,
00:16:06
we'll move on. Go ahead. Sorry. Let me
00:16:08
just have one side note because
00:16:09
obviously I've been getting all these
00:16:10
Tik Toks. I will say this, there was a
00:16:12
contrast just going to this this Steven
00:16:16
Miller.
00:16:17
>> Uhhuh.
00:16:18
>> I do not like the guy.
00:16:19
>> Neither do I. He did walk out his wife
00:16:21
in a very
00:16:21
>> He did walk out his wife. Did you see
00:16:23
what the other men did?
00:16:24
>> Yeah, they ran.
00:16:25
>> They ran.
00:16:26
>> And Carol Hines was chasing RFK.
00:16:28
>> Yeah, I feel I feel petty even saying
00:16:31
this, but at least like like to Stephen
00:16:34
Steven Miller's instincts were the
00:16:35
correct ones.
00:16:36
>> Yeah, he did. He he had his hands on his
00:16:38
wife and was escorting his wife out. Um
00:16:41
>> anyway, I there's no way not to come
00:16:43
away from this and just feel a little
00:16:45
bit shittier. I don't
00:16:47
>> I would agree. I think that's exactly
00:16:48
the reaction to have. I just I would
00:16:50
like the press I I don't Trump is Trump.
00:16:53
He's going to behave anyway the the same
00:16:55
way every single time and then he'll
00:16:56
switch right back to nasty.
00:16:59
Let me say the press could do a better
00:17:01
job. And I do give kudos to people who
00:17:04
just were reporting the facts and I
00:17:05
agree. It's a news story, but seriously,
00:17:08
I don't really I I No, I know a lot of
00:17:11
people are traumatized, but I don't want
00:17:13
to know how you feel. I want you to tell
00:17:15
me what's happening as a news news
00:17:17
organization. That's all. And I don't
00:17:19
want to know what you think of unity. I
00:17:21
don't know what I don't want to hear
00:17:22
about it. I just want you to tell me
00:17:24
what's going on, who this guy is, and do
00:17:25
the reporting. Anyway, I love the media,
00:17:28
and I was repulsed. Um, okay. Uh, let's
00:17:31
go on a quick break. When we come back,
00:17:32
Elon Musk and Samman head to court. big
00:17:35
story. Actually,
00:17:38
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00:18:37
Scott, we're back with more news. Elon
00:18:38
Musk and Sam Alman are headed to court
00:18:40
this week over OpenAI's conversion to a
00:18:43
for-profit entity. Musk is asking for
00:18:45
over $150 billion in damages from OpenAI
00:18:48
and Microsoft and for Altman to be
00:18:51
removed from the company's board and and
00:18:53
a CEO. I think um jury selection is
00:18:55
taking place as we tape on Monday and
00:18:57
opening arguments are expected on
00:18:58
Tuesday starting off with several week-l
00:19:00
long trial. Musk Alman and Sacha Nadella
00:19:03
as well as other big tech figures are
00:19:05
expected to testify. I we got a clip
00:19:07
from um actually CNN legal uh senior
00:19:10
legal analyst Ellie Honeig who I've
00:19:12
interviewed many times for. I think he's
00:19:13
really smart on what's to come. I
00:19:15
thought he would have an interesting
00:19:16
take. The thing about trial is it all
00:19:19
comes out because both sides by now have
00:19:22
engaged in discovery, meaning they have
00:19:24
one another's internal emails, texts,
00:19:27
corporate communications. Three things
00:19:28
I'm watching for. First of all, what
00:19:30
were Altman and Musk and their
00:19:32
principles saying about AI? Do they view
00:19:34
it as an existential threat or something
00:19:36
else? Second of all, what do the
00:19:38
employees think of the bosses? What are
00:19:40
the people who work in these companies
00:19:42
really saying to one another about Sam
00:19:44
Alman and Elon Musk? What are they
00:19:45
saying about Caris Swisser? I'll bet
00:19:46
you're in there, Cara. I'll bet your
00:19:48
name pops up in this trial. And then
00:19:49
third of all, how will Altman and Musk
00:19:51
fare on cross-exam? Cuz these are two
00:19:54
guys, moguls, used to being told, "Yes,
00:19:56
sir. Yes, sir." Now they're going to get
00:19:58
cross-examined by aggressive litigators
00:20:01
who are looking to undermine them,
00:20:02
discredit them, maybe even embarrass
00:20:04
them. How's that going to go? This will
00:20:06
be fascinating. Check it out.
00:20:07
>> Uh, I thought that was pretty smart. I
00:20:08
mean, it's the technical aspects of this
00:20:10
are really interesting. Um, what I don't
00:20:13
understand is why this was going to
00:20:14
trial, why they didn't settle. Um, the
00:20:16
only thing I can think of is that I mean
00:20:18
to me open a should have somehow settled
00:20:20
with him. But there's no plus for Musk
00:20:22
to settle even though most odds are that
00:20:25
he is going to lose. Um, it's a really
00:20:28
complex trial. It's a jury trial but the
00:20:30
jurors cannot decide on dies. The judge
00:20:34
only can. The judge allowed certain
00:20:36
things to go forward that most people
00:20:38
think are ridiculous. Um, you know, most
00:20:41
of the odds are Musk will not win. But I
00:20:43
can't believe they didn't settle cuz my
00:20:46
only thing is is Musk loves this. He's
00:20:48
already a villain. And when you you
00:20:51
start wrestling with a pig, the pig
00:20:53
likes it and you get filthy. And so I
00:20:55
don't think it's good for open AI at
00:20:57
all.
00:20:58
>> It's interesting. I had and again you
00:21:00
you you might be right here, I might be
00:21:03
wrong. My initial reaction was that Musk
00:21:06
has more to lose and that he'll settle
00:21:09
right as the trial is beginning or right
00:21:11
after it starts.
00:21:12
>> Okay. Tell me why
00:21:13
>> Musk isn't doing this cuz he's Okay, so
00:21:16
the basic premise is this is supposed to
00:21:18
be a nonprofit
00:21:20
focusing on
00:21:22
protecting the public from AI. Okay. He
00:21:26
then, my understanding is wanted to buy
00:21:28
it or he wanted to control it.
00:21:30
>> He wanted to control it. Yes. And then
00:21:33
walked out. He did walk out.
00:21:34
>> And so and then when Alman said, "No,
00:21:36
you don't get to control it." He said,
00:21:38
"Then I'm taking my ball and I'm
00:21:40
leaving." thing and he signed a ton of
00:21:41
documents saying I no longer have
00:21:42
ownership in this.
00:21:43
>> Yeah.
00:21:43
>> And then when it converted to become the
00:21:45
leading AI platform in the world, he
00:21:47
went [ __ ] crazy
00:21:48
>> and he has his own company
00:21:50
>> that he But here's a guy who's very
00:21:53
concerned with ensuring there's an
00:21:55
entity policing AI safety and
00:21:57
regulation, but he starts his own
00:21:59
forprofit AI.
00:22:00
>> Yeah, exactly.
00:22:01
>> As your the commentator very deafly
00:22:03
said, these guys aren't used to a
00:22:06
cross-examination with emails that says,
00:22:08
"I'm not impressed with you. You are
00:22:10
full of [ __ ] You wanted to control
00:22:12
this. When you couldn't control it, you
00:22:16
threw a hit. You threw a fit. You have
00:22:18
signed papers that are legally
00:22:20
enforcable with no ownership. And now,
00:22:22
>> like the Twitter when he took over tried
00:22:24
to get out of the Twitter deal saying,
00:22:26
>> "Yeah, this guy, he's angry that he he
00:22:29
walked away from what ended up being the
00:22:30
best I kicking myself because I've had
00:22:33
two investments recently that have gone
00:22:35
bad and they needed to raise more
00:22:37
capital. And one of the things about
00:22:38
investing early is you have your pro
00:22:40
rata. And I wasn't sure whether to
00:22:41
invest or not. And on one specifically,
00:22:43
I didn't do my PR rata. And then they
00:22:45
figured out a way to develop these
00:22:46
innovative turbines to power off-grid AI
00:22:49
centers. And the valuation has gone up
00:22:51
10x.
00:22:52
>> Wow. And so you feel like I'm a
00:22:53
>> and now I'm [ __ ] furious.
00:22:55
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:55
>> But I'm not going to go back and sue the
00:22:57
company. I mean,
00:22:58
>> right.
00:22:59
>> So I I think Discovery here I think
00:23:01
Musk's lawyers are going to say, you
00:23:04
realize you can't perger yourself. this
00:23:06
isn't Twitter. You can't lie. And when
00:23:10
they he goes, "This is the" and they the
00:23:12
day before in the briefing or the
00:23:14
coaching of him, they're going to say,
00:23:15
"This is what I would ask you and you
00:23:18
can't lie and this is the evidence
00:23:21
they're going to bring up and he's going
00:23:22
to go settle this."
00:23:24
>> Yeah.
00:23:24
>> I think he's playing poker.
00:23:26
>> Like, by the way, he has settled.
00:23:28
>> Remember the Delaware Chancery Court?
00:23:29
>> Yeah. Mhm.
00:23:30
>> He was like, "Threatening threatening
00:23:32
threatening." Okay.
00:23:33
>> I I think you're very smart here. I
00:23:35
think that's probably my I don't believe
00:23:37
none of them settled you know I don't I
00:23:39
guess going to court is always like why
00:23:42
couldn't you possibly settle this right
00:23:44
essentially very crude instrument
00:23:46
>> which I don't understand why neither of
00:23:50
them did on both sides right
00:23:52
>> and it seemed like I mean it's always up
00:23:55
until the trial where they settle right
00:23:57
that's always the
00:23:57
>> well he's trying to slow them down he's
00:23:59
trying to create doubt
00:24:00
>> that's the other thing
00:24:01
>> hurt their fundraising capabilities slow
00:24:03
them down IPO So
00:24:05
>> I think if I believe if Musk want Musk
00:24:08
ideally I believe if he was and he's
00:24:10
very smart would be trying to delay the
00:24:12
case to create to maintain
00:24:14
>> he has I think he has done that. I think
00:24:15
he's out
00:24:16
>> and Open AI wants to go to court and say
00:24:19
you signed papers
00:24:21
>> legally forfeiting your ownership and
00:24:23
governance here. Yeah,
00:24:24
>> you're out.
00:24:25
>> Yeah. One of the things that's
00:24:27
interesting about it is that obviously
00:24:29
he created his own companies that aren't
00:24:30
doing as well. um is that he when I when
00:24:34
he both of them started talking about
00:24:35
this back in the day they were worried
00:24:38
about the strength of Google and
00:24:40
Facebook and others they were maybe in
00:24:42
their own self-interest but at the time
00:24:44
it was a real I would say a genuine
00:24:46
worry about where AI was being developed
00:24:48
especially that the government had
00:24:50
abregated its responsibility so you know
00:24:53
these two have come a long way what's
00:24:55
interesting it's also a duel of their
00:24:56
reputations now Elon's full-on villain
00:24:59
now right so it'll be interesting to see
00:25:01
how jury thinks of him. Alman now
00:25:03
doesn't have a great reputation, right?
00:25:05
Is he a liar? There's a lot of, you
00:25:07
know, after the Ronan Pharaoh piece and
00:25:08
everything else. The thing is, I think
00:25:10
most juries haven't really paid
00:25:11
attention to the Sam Alman portion of
00:25:13
this reputation decline. I think they
00:25:17
all know Elon Musk is a giant [ __ ]
00:25:20
So, I think that probably um or you
00:25:22
know, every bit of him jumping up and
00:25:24
down and being so partisan and you know,
00:25:26
posting racist stuff all over the he's
00:25:30
doing that more than ever recently. Um
00:25:33
I think he's in in a on his back foot on
00:25:36
this because I as much as I'd like to
00:25:38
paint Sam as this oily liar essentially,
00:25:41
I don't think it's sunk in with most
00:25:42
people. I don't I just don't I don't
00:25:44
think they even know who he is kind of
00:25:46
thing. But
00:25:47
>> not only that, the secret weapon here I
00:25:49
think for
00:25:51
for OpenAI will be Nadella. I think
00:25:54
Nadella will reflect really well on Open
00:25:58
AI. He comes across as very measured.
00:26:00
>> Yeah.
00:26:01
>> And I I I would love to be I would love
00:26:04
to be the defense council here. It's
00:26:06
like, okay, so you're claiming you're so
00:26:09
concerned about protection and safety.
00:26:12
What have you done? Have you did you go
00:26:14
and start? You have you're the
00:26:15
wealthiest man in the world. Did you
00:26:17
start another entity looking at safety
00:26:18
or oh wait, you've you've you started a
00:26:21
for-profit AI and you're competing
00:26:23
against this company. Isn't this nothing
00:26:25
but an attempt to slow them down because
00:26:27
you're jealous you [ __ ] up and sold
00:26:29
your shares? I I just I think this is
00:26:32
going to be a very easy narrative for
00:26:35
for the defense to say this the
00:26:38
wealthiest man in the world is trying to
00:26:39
abuse you, waste your time and get in
00:26:42
the way of the capitalism, the small
00:26:44
part of capitalism, the small part of
00:26:46
the internet he doesn't own and he's
00:26:48
furious about it. He owns space. He owns
00:26:51
EVs. He owns, you know, a 180 character
00:26:55
messaging application. But because he
00:26:57
[ __ ] up and sold the best corner of
00:27:00
AI, he now wants it back.
00:27:02
>> He wants everything. Yeah. He's this
00:27:03
greedy [ __ ] Yeah, it's true. I don't
00:27:05
think slamming Alman's going to work
00:27:07
here. And he's tried to, trust, he's
00:27:09
really tried to and personally and
00:27:10
professionally. Um, but
00:27:12
>> it'll make them both look bad. There'll
00:27:14
be emails that'll come out that'll be
00:27:15
like, "Everyone look bad.
00:27:16
>> Everyone looks bad." Well, it's great.
00:27:18
It's great for brand AI. Again, the only
00:27:20
one who looks good, Daario, whom I spent
00:27:23
time with this weekend. He's a
00:27:25
>> What was your general impression?
00:27:26
>> It was an off the record thing, but he
00:27:28
was, I have to say, very funny. Doesn't
00:27:31
like any of these people, by the way.
00:27:33
>> Um, but very funny. I'm not going to
00:27:36
call him Steve Jobs, but he at least had
00:27:38
range to talk about. You know, I reread
00:27:40
his essay um machines of loving grace,
00:27:43
which I hated the headline of many. It
00:27:45
was two years ago and was talking about
00:27:46
that and I have to say he's ariodite
00:27:49
like he was quoting from Arcadia and
00:27:52
stuff like that. And I think he he's a
00:27:54
he's a very complex and interesting
00:27:55
figure and much more jolly than I give
00:27:58
him credit for in a way. So he's it's
00:28:01
you know he's having the time of his
00:28:02
life because they're all like shooting
00:28:04
each other in the head and he's merrily
00:28:06
going along and being the successful one
00:28:08
and creating the best technology. So
00:28:10
anyway, I I I really actually I hate to
00:28:13
say this cuz I I really enjoyed talking
00:28:16
to him. I did. It was it was fun. It was
00:28:19
he also give gives as good as he gets.
00:28:22
Um and I like that like he wasn't scared
00:28:25
of questions which a lot of them get all
00:28:27
>> Did you do it was it on with Caris
00:28:29
Fisher? No, not yet. But he's coming on
00:28:31
with car and I told him about your
00:28:33
interest. Anyway, I really enjoyed it.
00:28:35
It was an enjoyable interview, I have to
00:28:36
say. Um, by the way, speaking of Sam
00:28:39
Alman, he apologized to the community of
00:28:41
Tumblr Ridge for failing to alert
00:28:43
authorities about an account of a
00:28:45
shooter who killed eight people and
00:28:47
whose chat GPT account was suspended for
00:28:49
violent messages. In the letter, Altman
00:28:51
reaffirmed a commitment to find ways to
00:28:53
prevent similar tragedies in the future.
00:28:56
I I this is it's always a backwards
00:28:59
looking like oh sorry I don't know I
00:29:02
just feel like they can apologize all
00:29:04
they want why don't they create services
00:29:05
that have some level of safety or
00:29:08
reporting uh despite all the free speech
00:29:10
stuff there's some clear clear worries
00:29:12
that people have if you had someone in
00:29:14
your neighborhood who was doing this you
00:29:17
would turn them in would so I don't know
00:29:20
what to say
00:29:20
>> we had a school I was involved in
00:29:22
Florida you know we had a kid writing or
00:29:26
drawing violent weird images. Next day
00:29:29
FB FBI was at their house looking for
00:29:31
firearms.
00:29:33
And so there's got to be I mean to Sam's
00:29:36
credit he did what most of these guys
00:29:38
don't do. He apologized um and he's he
00:29:40
is claiming to want to put in some sort
00:29:42
of safeguards
00:29:44
but he we shouldn't need their apologies
00:29:46
and their safeguards. There should be
00:29:47
regularly help here.
00:29:49
>> It should be liability. It should be you
00:29:52
guys have this you have technology that
00:29:54
can scan basically everything that's
00:29:57
ever been written in history and then
00:29:59
start making really intelligent thesis
00:30:02
on what should be written about this
00:30:03
topic by recognizing past patterns of
00:30:06
everything that has been written in
00:30:08
history. You should be able to highlight
00:30:11
threats pretty easily and then
00:30:13
immediately using the agentic layer
00:30:16
notify that local police department and
00:30:19
not overwhelm them but say okay this is
00:30:22
level nine threat.
00:30:24
>> Right. Exactly.
00:30:24
>> What do you want to do with it? What how
00:30:27
can we cooperate with you?
00:30:29
>> And that's where humans get involved. We
00:30:30
you know they they observe it. This is
00:30:33
just reporting possible danger and it
00:30:36
should be easy for these people but it's
00:30:37
not. By the way, speaking of Anthropic,
00:30:39
Google plans to invest as much as $40
00:30:41
billion in the company, $10 billion now,
00:30:44
and another $30 billion would be
00:30:46
invested when Anthropic meets certain
00:30:47
milestones. Probably smart move from
00:30:49
Google, who is also a dominant player in
00:30:51
this who is quietly I think remember
00:30:54
your I said I think Google will win all
00:30:56
this because they have all the parts. I
00:30:58
think they've handled this really well
00:30:59
and I think investing in anthropic in
00:31:01
this case is probably a very good idea
00:31:03
for them.
00:31:04
>> Yeah. And then what I saw which shocked
00:31:05
me is there it's val the deal values
00:31:08
anthropic at 350 billion. I was
00:31:10
potentially I indirectly own anthropic
00:31:12
shares but
00:31:13
>> no from you bought the Sam Bankman Freed
00:31:14
stuff right
00:31:15
>> yeah about the FTX claims which owned a
00:31:17
bunch of anthropic lot
00:31:19
>> um but anyways the uh in the secondary
00:31:22
market I follow the secondary markets
00:31:23
anthropic trading at a trillion dollars.
00:31:25
>> Wow.
00:31:26
>> Anthropic is now trading at a higher
00:31:28
valuation in the secondary markets than
00:31:31
>> Open AI. So Google coming in here,
00:31:34
they'll get a preference on it.
00:31:36
>> They're strategic. Yeah, it's a great
00:31:38
investment. I would invest. Um, hello
00:31:40
Dario. I would invest at 300 of $350
00:31:43
million.
00:31:44
>> I'll I'll give you his let him know.
00:31:46
Anyway,
00:31:47
>> not a journalist. Not
00:31:48
>> a journalist. I do not want to invest
00:31:49
Dario, but I I really did enjoy talking
00:31:52
to you. Uh, last thing, Meta Plans lay
00:31:54
off around 10% of its workforce. It sort
00:31:56
of went under the radar. 6,000 open and
00:31:58
closed 6,000 open roles. The company's
00:32:01
chief people officer said the move was
00:32:02
being made to run the c company more
00:32:04
efficiently and to offset other
00:32:06
investments. Maybe that he lost 75
00:32:08
billion in the metaverse. But meanwhile,
00:32:10
Microsoft will begin offering voluntary
00:32:12
buyouts to 7% of US employees. One-time
00:32:15
retirement program will be available to
00:32:17
employees whose age and years of service
00:32:19
total 70 or higher. This is these are
00:32:22
just stacking up these big tech layoffs
00:32:24
where they're trying I mean I think they
00:32:25
overhire during co as you and I both
00:32:28
said. Um, but this is a real tipping
00:32:30
point to impact overall employment
00:32:33
levels. It seems these were the big
00:32:35
hirers and now they're the big fireers
00:32:37
at this point.
00:32:38
>> As I said, AI is corporate ompic. It's
00:32:41
turned off the signal that in order to
00:32:42
grow, you need more calories. In this
00:32:44
case, calories means employees. And I've
00:32:46
had I had Andrew Yang on my podcast
00:32:49
who's having another moment because an
00:32:51
Andrew is very early and precient about
00:32:54
capital replacing labor. Capital
00:32:56
displacing labor. and and he's now
00:33:00
getting a lot of attention correctly for
00:33:03
and he's on this whole the capital the
00:33:06
capital destruction of labor here is
00:33:08
just going to be dramatic and he's
00:33:09
pointing to these companies. You do
00:33:12
though have to have some perspective and
00:33:13
that is pre- pandemic meta 2019 had
00:33:17
35,000 employees now they have 80. So
00:33:21
firing 8,000 people quite frankly takes
00:33:23
them back to I think late 2024, early
00:33:27
2025.
00:33:28
>> They overhired, that's for sure.
00:33:29
>> So the the scary thing is these guys are
00:33:32
early adopters of AI and as their
00:33:35
revenues grow, they're actually
00:33:37
shrinking their workforce, which is
00:33:39
amazing for earnings. But if they're the
00:33:42
early adopters and this starts to
00:33:44
waterfall down to other parts of the
00:33:46
economy, you can see why people are
00:33:49
scared. And Andrew said something really
00:33:51
appreciate or I thought insightful. He
00:33:52
said, "The easiest people to fire are
00:33:54
the people you haven't hired yet." And
00:33:57
this is going to put pressure on new
00:34:00
hires out of college. And I I don't want
00:34:02
to come across as non-empathetic,
00:34:04
but when I graduated from Berkeley, 40%
00:34:07
of us had jobs on graduation day, which
00:34:10
meant 60% didn't.
00:34:11
>> Yeah, I did. And we're we're so used to
00:34:15
anyone under the age of 40 or 45 has
00:34:17
only really known one labor economy
00:34:19
where there's a war for talent,
00:34:22
>> especially educated talent. And what's
00:34:23
interesting about this cycle is for the
00:34:26
first time in decades, the unemployment
00:34:28
rate among college grads is greater than
00:34:30
the unemployment rate among non-ol
00:34:33
grads. So I I look at this as quite
00:34:38
frankly just part of an economic cycle.
00:34:40
I don't buy the catastrophizing. The key
00:34:43
question is there's no doubt this is a
00:34:45
disruption that's going to displace
00:34:48
certain types of information work that
00:34:50
can be routinized. The question is how
00:34:53
severe and fast it'll be because
00:34:56
typically when we no longer need
00:34:58
elevator operators or we no longer need
00:35:01
sewing machine operators or secretaries,
00:35:03
it's been slow enough such that the
00:35:06
majority of the people are able to
00:35:08
adapt, retrain and find something else.
00:35:11
Not all of them but the majority of
00:35:12
them. The fear here is that the V is so
00:35:15
severe and so fast that even if there
00:35:19
was a potential recovery, there's going
00:35:21
to be so many people left out in the
00:35:23
dust.
00:35:23
>> Well, that's cuz people were going to
00:35:25
those job, right? That was where they,
00:35:26
you know, I have to say, Alex Wisher
00:35:28
called this one a while back. He's like,
00:35:30
I'm going into mechanical engineering
00:35:31
and energy. He got right. I thought he
00:35:34
would go into computer software and he
00:35:35
said, no, AI will replace all these
00:35:37
things. Um, which I thought was pretty
00:35:40
pressing of him. And so he's working on
00:35:42
areas where there is, you know,
00:35:44
>> things making things
00:35:45
>> making things forward employment. And
00:35:47
interestingly, Louis Swisser now may
00:35:49
have three jobs um because he's working
00:35:52
on a campaign. He's he's and he's trying
00:35:55
doing cooking jobs. Two really
00:35:57
interesting cooking jobs. So he's trying
00:35:59
a variety of things which are not
00:36:01
replaceable, right? which were really
00:36:03
it's really kind of he has it's just
00:36:05
interesting like but I have to tell you
00:36:08
both of them were thinking about this
00:36:10
without my prompting like where is the
00:36:13
where are the where's employment going
00:36:15
but um but but young people have to
00:36:18
think really hard now about that and
00:36:20
figure
00:36:20
>> yeah but they'll they'll be fine because
00:36:22
their mom is rich
00:36:23
>> no I understand that but they're making
00:36:25
their own money
00:36:26
>> middle class warfare there by the way
00:36:28
>> make their own money
00:36:29
>> by the way car how do you spot the blind
00:36:30
man at anus each.
00:36:32
>> Oh, wow.
00:36:34
>> Cara, it's not hard.
00:36:37
>> Oh,
00:36:39
all these jokes now they're like take a
00:36:41
minute.
00:36:42
>> Little little second order. I'm going
00:36:44
for the intelligent stuff. I'm going for
00:36:46
the stuff that takes me an hour to
00:36:47
figure out cuz I know that hard penis.
00:36:50
Got it. Um, anyway, I just think it's I
00:36:53
think young people have to really think
00:36:55
hard. AI is going to is going to
00:36:57
massively level up some people and
00:36:59
massively massively
00:37:01
>> uh level down level down others. But and
00:37:04
again I I'm a contrarian say this was
00:37:06
brought up in this you know someone
00:37:08
asked about the idea that we sort of
00:37:10
could care less about workingass people
00:37:12
during the during the NAFTA days and now
00:37:14
you want us to cry for information
00:37:16
workers
00:37:17
>> for people making a ton of who are
00:37:18
taking making a ton
00:37:19
>> and one of the things and I it was off
00:37:21
the record but one of the things I think
00:37:22
is just an obvious thing that Daria
00:37:24
pointed out was that it does level up
00:37:26
the workers right because like if you're
00:37:29
plum it does it's people have college
00:37:31
level information at their fingertips.
00:37:33
tips that is easily digested. Exactly.
00:37:35
Right. There's
00:37:36
>> which is interesting.
00:37:37
>> There were more new business
00:37:38
applications formed in the last 12
00:37:40
months than I think in any time in
00:37:42
history. If Alex wants to start his own
00:37:44
small company milling and manufacturing
00:37:47
ball bearings for some weird esoteric
00:37:49
use, he doesn't need $10 million in
00:37:50
capital and 40 engineers.
00:37:53
He needs he needs, you know, $50,000 and
00:37:56
a bunch of site licenses and one or two
00:37:58
co-founders. So there's a there's a ton
00:38:01
of um there's a ton of opportunity. I
00:38:05
the very basic axiom and the thing the
00:38:08
thing I I think the next a lot of our
00:38:10
candidates should be focused on is that
00:38:12
if you loosely break down the labor
00:38:14
economy or capital formation to
00:38:17
shareholders/investors,
00:38:19
workers and consumers, it's pretty easy.
00:38:22
We need, you've had a massive leakage of
00:38:25
power, leverage, and capital from
00:38:28
consumers and labor to investors. And we
00:38:32
need public policy, whether it's
00:38:34
alternative minimum taxes, taxes on uh
00:38:37
shares that you borrow against, um maybe
00:38:40
some form of uh lowering estate tax,
00:38:42
lowering estate tax exemptions. We need
00:38:44
to transfer capital back from investors
00:38:48
to employees and consumers.
00:38:50
>> Yeah, I agree. And it's a fairly basic
00:38:52
dynamic. These three entities investors
00:38:55
as a percentage of our GDP
00:38:58
share the the market cap has never been
00:39:00
higher. As a percentage of our GDP,
00:39:02
wages have never been lower. This isn't
00:39:05
rocket science. We need policies. You
00:39:08
talked about one. Increase minimum wage.
00:39:11
Stop taxing earners as much. Start
00:39:13
taxing owners more. It's not it's not
00:39:16
complicated. People will create this
00:39:18
incredible like arguments that it's
00:39:20
about things they can't control like
00:39:22
network effects and AI. Don't tax.
00:39:25
There's talk about an AI tax. There's
00:39:26
not an you shouldn't have an AI tax. You
00:39:28
should have an alternative minimum tax
00:39:29
for any profitable company that's making
00:39:31
billions and billions. This notion
00:39:33
Andrew and and Andrew I think gets it 70
00:39:35
or 80% right. And we had a really
00:39:37
productive conversation and I I'm I love
00:39:39
Andrew Yang. I'm an investor in his
00:39:40
company because I I have so much
00:39:41
confidence in him. But if you start I
00:39:45
hate industry specific taxes. There's a
00:39:47
lot of talk about an AI tax right now.
00:39:50
No. Have a tax lower payroll taxes such
00:39:53
that it's not more expensive to hire
00:39:55
someone than buy a robot, right? And
00:39:58
have some sort of cap. Don't let people
00:40:00
depreciate capex in year one and have
00:40:03
payroll taxes such that it's more
00:40:05
economically advantageous to buy a
00:40:07
[ __ ] robot as opposed to hiring
00:40:08
somebody.
00:40:08
>> That's a really good point. There's just
00:40:10
like some basic people now focused on
00:40:13
and I have to say that people are very
00:40:15
much and I think just because of these
00:40:17
layoffs at Meta and Microsoft they they
00:40:19
bring people's attention to it in a way
00:40:21
that because they're supposed to be the
00:40:22
big job places and so
00:40:24
>> the bell weathers for the whole economy.
00:40:26
>> Exactly. So I think I more and more
00:40:28
people are thinking about this idea of
00:40:30
where our employment goes which is
00:40:32
always a good thing. Anyway um let's go
00:40:34
on a quick break. When we come back the
00:40:36
DOJ drops its Powell probe. Support for
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00:41:41
>> Support for the show comes from NPR. Oh
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00:42:42
Scott, we're back. The DOJ is ending its
00:42:44
criminal probe into the Federal Reserve
00:42:46
and its chair, Jerome Powell. Although
00:42:47
the US Attorney, Janine Pero, is warning
00:42:49
the case could be reopened if new facts
00:42:51
emerge. As usual, they always cover
00:42:53
their [ __ ] bases. Still, uh, Senator
00:42:55
Tom Tillis says he's ready to move
00:42:57
forward with the confirmation of Trump's
00:42:58
nominee, Kevin Worsh. And with that
00:43:00
hurdle removed, Worsh's confirmation by
00:43:02
the end of Powell's term on May 15th is
00:43:05
looking likely. At his confirmation
00:43:06
hearing last week, Worsh rejected the
00:43:08
idea that he's Trump's sock puppet. Um,
00:43:10
hence the long how long after he's
00:43:13
confirmed as Trump threatened to fire
00:43:15
him. Let's just remember Trump hired
00:43:16
Jerome Powell. He just it wasn't a sock
00:43:19
puppet. And that was a problem for Trump
00:43:20
who's trying to take over. I think Tom
00:43:23
Telis did a great job here. Now, let's
00:43:24
see if Janine Piro tries to do some
00:43:26
tricks after Worshes um is uh in place.
00:43:30
They could do that cuz they're a bunch
00:43:32
of persistent liars. Um so, and quick
00:43:36
thoughts.
00:43:37
>> Um I'm glad kudos to Senator Tillis. I
00:43:40
think he's the reason that it was
00:43:41
dropped and
00:43:44
I'd like to see most of these cases uh
00:43:46
continue. I love I love that Patel uh
00:43:51
Director Patel filed a suit against the
00:43:52
Atlantic. I would love the discovery
00:43:54
against Patel. By the way,
00:43:56
>> that tribe will never see the light
00:43:57
today.
00:43:58
>> No, he lost he lost one or
00:43:59
>> his lawyers are going to sit him down
00:44:01
and go, "Okay, these are the questions
00:44:02
they're going to ask."
00:44:03
>> Yeah,
00:44:04
>> that was a ridiculous. That was lawfair.
00:44:06
That was a nuisance suit. I'm glad it's
00:44:09
been dropped. That's just that's just a
00:44:10
a distraction. But I also want to bring
00:44:12
up I've I've been very complimentary of
00:44:15
Walsh. I was again rattled by his
00:44:17
inability to state on the record
00:44:20
>> that Biden won the 2020 election.
00:44:22
>> I agree with you. He was a sock puppet.
00:44:24
I think Warren did a great job
00:44:26
interviewing him. By the way,
00:44:27
>> it's okay. You're supposed to be You're
00:44:30
claiming you're going to be an
00:44:31
independent Fed, which is key to the
00:44:33
growth of an economy, and you won't. So,
00:44:36
was Chairman Powell appointed legally? I
00:44:40
mean there at some point folks there has
00:44:42
to be a truth and you have to you have
00:44:45
to be willing to state that truth under
00:44:47
oath and they all state the same thing
00:44:48
saying he was duly sworn in
00:44:50
>> right yeah oh my god
00:44:52
>> I know I know he really was a wimp he
00:44:55
definitely took some shine off of him
00:44:57
I'll tell you that and I think they all
00:44:59
feel that way like even Tillis said to
00:45:01
me when I interviewed him look I had to
00:45:04
say those things cuz if not I'd get run
00:45:06
over I would be a martyr is dead you
00:45:07
know a martyr is dead so I don't what to
00:45:10
tell you. Um, and that's a really
00:45:12
ridiculous way to hire this thing. And
00:45:13
of course, Trump will continue to try.
00:45:15
He has two years to try to [ __ ] up the
00:45:16
feds. So, he will. So, Kevin Marsh, get
00:45:19
ready. You better start to find a
00:45:20
backbone. Um, also, speaking of
00:45:23
communism, the Trump administration is
00:45:25
reportedly considering invoking the
00:45:27
Defense Product uh, Production Act to
00:45:28
bail out Spirit Airlines, though it's
00:45:30
still unclear what exactly the
00:45:32
justification would be. There's talk of
00:45:34
a plan that would loan Spirit, which has
00:45:36
filed for bankruptcy twice, about $500
00:45:38
million. In exchange, the government
00:45:39
would own as much as 90% of the airline.
00:45:42
It's a playbook we've seen before Trump
00:45:44
with the government taking stakes in
00:45:45
Intel, US Steel, and others. But Trump
00:45:47
is facing push back correctly from
00:45:49
fellow Republicans with Senator Ted Cruz
00:45:52
calling the bailout a terrible idea. Um,
00:45:55
you've said many times that some
00:45:56
companies deserve to fail. Is Spirit one
00:45:58
of them?
00:46:00
>> This is [ __ ] insane. Insane. Our, let
00:46:04
me get this. We're capitalists on the
00:46:05
way up and then on the way down we bail
00:46:07
out companies. We're crony. So we're
00:46:09
total that's not even socialism. It's
00:46:10
cronyism.
00:46:12
Bankruptcy as someone who has started
00:46:14
companies who have gone bankrupt. As
00:46:15
someone who's invested in companies that
00:46:17
have gone bankrupt as someone who's been
00:46:18
on an operator, an investor in a company
00:46:21
as we pull it emerge it out of
00:46:22
bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a feature not
00:46:24
a bug. Uh a company's the market changes
00:46:27
and the company no longer can support
00:46:30
the assets and obligations it has given
00:46:32
changes in the market. It declares
00:46:33
bankruptcy. They get an umbrella,
00:46:36
basically coverage to get out of leases,
00:46:38
to get out of capital or expenses or
00:46:40
debt to Boeing or sell their gates. They
00:46:43
get out of union contracts. They get to
00:46:45
repackage and they reemerge to fight
00:46:47
another day. When you start bailing out
00:46:50
companies that aren't sustainable, all
00:46:52
you do is invite taxpayers to bail out
00:46:54
more. The government is not supposed to
00:46:56
pick winners and losers here. Delta,
00:46:59
American, and United all had CEOs who
00:47:02
paid themselves $150 million in
00:47:05
compensation due to options that were
00:47:07
artificially elevated because they took
00:47:09
all of their free cash flow pre-COVID
00:47:11
and used it to buy back shares, juicing
00:47:13
their stock, juicing their options, see
00:47:15
above 150 million in compensation. And
00:47:17
then when [ __ ] gets real and COVID comes
00:47:19
and the airlines shut down, they all
00:47:21
decide all of a sudden, we're all in
00:47:23
this together. And they go [ __ ] hat
00:47:25
in hand. They should have all been
00:47:27
allowed to go bankrupt. And guess what?
00:47:31
And we we've decided that airlines are
00:47:33
somewhat uniquely American and that we
00:47:36
need to bail out Spirit. [ __ ] that.
00:47:38
Burn, baby, burn. This sh this [ __ ]
00:47:40
should absolutely go out of business.
00:47:43
And guess what? In 3 years, it's more
00:47:45
likely to survive under the protection
00:47:47
from its creditors of a Chapter 11
00:47:49
bankruptcy. This is stupid.
00:47:51
>> Stupid. I agree. I don't You've said it
00:47:53
best. I it'll be interesting to see like
00:47:55
I remember interviewing Chimath
00:47:57
Polyhaped who said essentially this what
00:47:59
he's saying now like he's like no what
00:48:01
we really need to do is protect these
00:48:03
things. You're right them companies
00:48:05
deserve to
00:48:06
>> that's socialism and as Margaret
00:48:08
Thatcher said with socialism eventually
00:48:09
you run out of other people's money. You
00:48:11
end up with Delorean.
00:48:12
>> You end up with Air France where you
00:48:15
pick national champions and keep bailing
00:48:17
them out. Do you remember what it was
00:48:18
called? And air chance
00:48:21
that it was so bad. You don't remember.
00:48:23
>> Bankruptcy. I've been involved. I was on
00:48:25
the board of Eddie Bower. They put me on
00:48:27
the board when they were going bankrupt.
00:48:28
Remember them?
00:48:29
>> Yeah.
00:48:30
>> And And we decided, okay, the way to the
00:48:33
way to do it was to Did you just say you
00:48:35
liked it?
00:48:35
>> No, I never did.
00:48:37
>> I was always like I walked in cuz then
00:48:40
Patagonia showed up or something
00:48:41
whatever else or or REI and then
00:48:44
>> keep up. But anyways, the one of the
00:48:46
wonderful things about America is that
00:48:49
one, we let people and companies fail.
00:48:52
And two,
00:48:54
we give them a second chance. And a key
00:48:57
component of that, a key construct of
00:48:59
that is bankruptcy law.
00:49:01
>> Yep. Yep. It works well. It works well.
00:49:03
It keeps everyone clean. Um, speaking of
00:49:05
not clean, a US Army soldier has been
00:49:07
charged with making $400,000 by betting
00:49:09
on the removal of Venezuelan leader
00:49:11
Maduro on poly market. soldier used
00:49:13
classified information. He's quite close
00:49:15
to the situation to make wagers in the
00:49:17
weeks leading up to the capture. Poly
00:49:19
market said it referred the matter to
00:49:21
the Justice Department. Again, of
00:49:23
course, of course, like nobody's
00:49:25
catching the Trump people. They get the
00:49:27
soldier who pulls this [ __ ]
00:49:28
>> Exactly. Right. um you know but uh you
00:49:31
know he shouldn't be exposing classified
00:49:34
information but they have got to clean
00:49:36
up their acts poly market and the rest
00:49:38
of them because insiders it's got to be
00:49:40
dead obvious to them who's doing this
00:49:43
right including the Trump family or
00:49:45
whoever close affiliations are doing
00:49:47
this they've got to go after a big fish
00:49:49
not this I mean this soldier did the
00:49:51
wrong thing he's betraying his his his
00:49:54
uh job um but uh it seems like we're
00:49:57
picking up the little fish
00:49:59
Yeah, but okay.
00:50:01
I mean, my defense would be, well, our
00:50:03
commander-in-chief is doing it, isn't
00:50:04
he? I mean, I think I think a really
00:50:06
scrappy state GA or attorney general
00:50:08
should be suing this guy and then
00:50:10
figuring out a way to have discovery at
00:50:11
the highest levels to see if they're
00:50:13
doing it because I think this is going
00:50:15
on everywhere.
00:50:16
>> Yeah.
00:50:17
>> Now, I don't Is it fair to say he
00:50:19
revealed confidential information or he
00:50:20
just traded on it?
00:50:22
>> He knew about what was I think he was
00:50:23
part of that team. So,
00:50:24
>> but he didn't reveal he didn't
00:50:25
compromise the security. just traded on
00:50:28
it
00:50:28
>> in betting on it. He certainly did by
00:50:30
saying, "I know the outcome." Nobody
00:50:32
knew who he was, but he was using so
00:50:35
sideways, I guess. I don't know. I guess
00:50:38
there's no getting around it. It's
00:50:39
wrong.
00:50:39
>> Yeah. But when people who make more
00:50:41
money as elected officials are making
00:50:44
more money engaging in similar type
00:50:46
behavior, whether it's trading on
00:50:47
insider information in stocks or
00:50:49
insider, the the options activity before
00:50:52
Trump announces anything about the war
00:50:55
in the oil market is crazy. So there are
00:50:58
clearly dozens if not hundreds of people
00:51:00
perhaps even including cabinet members
00:51:02
who are making money
00:51:04
>> in the predictions markets. And so
00:51:06
>> let's find them.
00:51:07
>> Yeah. So have it. And by the way, the
00:51:09
the the enforcement division for crypto,
00:51:12
that was the one of the first divisions
00:51:14
where they were fired.
00:51:15
>> That's right.
00:51:16
>> Anyone rem anyone kind of any sheriff,
00:51:19
anyone with a badge actually looking
00:51:20
into this stuff has been fired. Uh the
00:51:23
same way they've neutered the IRS
00:51:24
because they're like the the greatest
00:51:26
way, you know, the easiest way to commit
00:51:28
crimes is to make sure there's no
00:51:29
enforcement.
00:51:30
>> No, no cops.
00:51:31
>> I don't want to say I feel for this guy,
00:51:32
but I think his defense is going to be
00:51:34
pretty robust. And it's
00:51:37
>> pointing up pointing up
00:51:39
>> and it goes back to the same thing. Poly
00:51:42
market and cowshi shouldn't have to
00:51:43
shouldn't have to decide. I mean so for
00:51:46
example I think kshi find somebody for
00:51:48
for some congress people for trading.
00:51:50
>> No they kicked them off the platform I
00:51:52
think.
00:51:52
>> Gave them off the platform. Okay.
00:51:54
>> I think that's like Ford Motor
00:51:57
figuring out that someone was going 100
00:51:59
miles an hour in their Mustang and then
00:52:01
repossessing the Mustang. It's not up to
00:52:03
Ford. It's up to the highway patrol.
00:52:05
It's up to the government.
00:52:06
>> If they have a business, they should
00:52:07
make sure insider trading is not being
00:52:09
used to bet. It's unfair to the people
00:52:10
on their platform. By the way, it
00:52:12
doesn't
00:52:12
>> I think it's the government's job.
00:52:13
>> I know, but for their own self-interest,
00:52:15
if there's all these insiders [ __ ]
00:52:17
with you, it's a shitty platform, right?
00:52:19
So, they don't have
00:52:22
>> I get it, but it's good for their
00:52:23
business not to for people to feel like
00:52:25
it's all gamed by rich sons of Trump
00:52:28
administration officials, etc.
00:52:30
>> So, there's Okay, to be fair, so I'm
00:52:32
just thinking this through. There's in
00:52:34
finance there's know your customer and
00:52:36
to trade on a platform they have to
00:52:38
ensure you're an accredited investor.
00:52:39
There is some regulation by the banks
00:52:42
around trading. But
00:52:44
>> compliance divisions all investment
00:52:45
banks do all they all have compliance
00:52:48
divisions.
00:52:48
>> But isn't it pretty easy to hide your
00:52:50
identity? Did this guy sign up as
00:52:51
master?
00:52:52
>> They can find them. They can find he
00:52:54
did. He tried but it's not that hard.
00:52:56
But is it the is it the platform's
00:52:57
responsibility or is it the government's
00:52:59
responsibility and cooperation
00:53:00
>> to alert people to unusual trades
00:53:02
seconds before that kind of stuff they
00:53:04
can do and then alert government
00:53:06
>> I don't doubt it but the enforcement
00:53:08
mechanism and and penalties should be
00:53:10
>> govern it enforcement is referrals right
00:53:13
and that's the thing anyway not a good
00:53:15
look for them but not a good look for
00:53:17
anyone but you know what this soldier
00:53:18
he's a cheater but look keep looking
00:53:21
upwards everybody because and then they
00:53:22
and you should because lots of people
00:53:25
have benefit.
00:53:26
>> All I got to say is that we're going to
00:53:27
put the wrong guy in prison.
00:53:28
>> That's right. That's right. All right.
00:53:30
Anyway, one more quick break. When we
00:53:32
get back, we'll have wins and fails.
00:53:35
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to learn more. Okay, Scott, let's hear
00:54:35
some wins and fails. You would you like
00:54:37
me to start?
00:54:38
>> You go first.
00:54:39
>> You know, I'm going to stick um there in
00:54:42
between this. the Trump administration
00:54:43
terminated se uh the board, the National
00:54:45
Science Foundation's board. Um which
00:54:47
again, it's he does all these things all
00:54:49
the time. He's trying to hollow out any
00:54:50
kind of compliance or over people who
00:54:53
overlook anything cuz he wants to do
00:54:55
whatever he wants. Um but I would have
00:54:57
to say I I think the the media failed in
00:55:00
this this thing over the weekend. It was
00:55:03
really disappointing to see so many um
00:55:06
people acting like
00:55:09
taking advantage of a tragedy to just
00:55:12
stick their chests out and do these
00:55:13
dramatic videos and act like they were
00:55:15
influencers. I thought I found it
00:55:17
embarrassing and sad. Um I uh I I ran
00:55:21
into some of them and I looked at my
00:55:23
shoes. I didn't know what to I for once
00:55:25
I was like I really would like to tell
00:55:26
them they suck. Um but uh but it was uh
00:55:30
it was disappointing and obviously
00:55:33
continued disappointment with the Trump
00:55:34
administration taking advantage of it,
00:55:36
but I expected them to do this and then
00:55:38
snap right back into shape. Um so I have
00:55:40
very lower standards for Trump
00:55:42
administration people. Um but not for
00:55:44
the media and I just this is not the way
00:55:47
you chase audiences to chase whatever
00:55:50
they were chasing. It was really painful
00:55:53
to watch and I do some people were
00:55:55
really traumatized because it is
00:55:56
terrifying. I suspect to be there. But
00:55:59
again, your job is to report the news
00:56:01
and that's what I would really like it.
00:56:02
So kudos to those who did. Um my win. Um
00:56:06
I just I don't know if you're watching
00:56:07
B. Middler on social media. Um she is so
00:56:11
funny. She is sort of has a whole new
00:56:14
life on social media and it's in it's so
00:56:16
clever. She puts out so much funny stuff
00:56:19
and she just put out a protest song with
00:56:21
the music video featuring her and her
00:56:23
beaches co-star Barbara Hershey. They
00:56:25
apparently go to a lot of these kings
00:56:27
marches or marches together and I just
00:56:28
love the two of them. I love that movie
00:56:31
Beaches by the way. Um, and I just think
00:56:33
she's using her platform in a really
00:56:35
very much on brand with her and I think
00:56:38
it's it dubtales into her incredible
00:56:40
still incredible singing voice and
00:56:42
cleverness and uh I just really love her
00:56:45
and I I love her all over again.
00:56:48
when I was uh I think I was in college
00:56:51
and I went with my buddy Lee to see
00:56:53
beaches as two men do. Go see
00:56:55
>> yes the movie. Anyways, and we're
00:56:58
sitting in line. My friend Lee Lotus is
00:57:00
literally the funniest person in the
00:57:02
world. There's only two people that make
00:57:03
me laugh out loud. One is Lee Lotus, the
00:57:05
other is David Frey. But anyways, we're
00:57:07
sitting in line as he used to do at the
00:57:09
Man brewing like a line around the block
00:57:11
to see, you know, opening night of
00:57:12
beaches with B Midler and Barbara
00:57:15
Hershey. And we knew it was about best
00:57:17
friends and we knew one dies and
00:57:19
everyone coming out was sobbing and Lee
00:57:21
goes, "It must mean that Barbara Hershey
00:57:23
died. No one would sob. Midler died. No
00:57:26
one sobs about the overweight singer
00:57:28
dying."
00:57:28
>> And I thought that was so [ __ ] funny.
00:57:30
I couldn't stop laughing.
00:57:32
>> It's like no one's going to be that sad
00:57:34
about B. Midler.
00:57:35
>> I would. She died in the She played
00:57:37
Janice Joplin. Do you remember what was
00:57:39
that movie?
00:57:39
>> Oh no. Let me be clear. In real life,
00:57:42
there will be there are a few people
00:57:44
more beloved than that Midler. What I'm
00:57:46
saying is in the movie,
00:57:48
>> it's like it's clear that the hot the
00:57:50
hot one, the pretty girl dying is the
00:57:52
real tragedy.
00:57:53
>> But it was how she died and the Oh, the
00:57:55
end. Oh,
00:57:57
>> I'm going to go back. We should watch it
00:57:58
together cuz I would say you are the
00:58:00
wind beneath my wings, but really you're
00:58:02
appreciate that good on bed. Yeah, she
00:58:04
was uh Barry Manalo was her pist, her
00:58:07
backup pist when she when she was in the
00:58:09
in the foray audiences. Always been
00:58:12
>> also I got to be honest, she's the
00:58:14
source of one of my favorite jokes,
00:58:16
>> which is
00:58:16
>> my favorite jokes. My partner
00:58:19
>> uh my partner is Polish and on Friday
00:58:22
nights I dress up like Germany and
00:58:23
invade her.
00:58:26
>> She said that. That was her joke.
00:58:28
>> That was her joke. She said her husband
00:58:30
her husband was German.
00:58:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. She has a lot of dirty
00:58:33
jokes. She used to be a lot dirtier, but
00:58:35
she's still delightful. Anyway, your
00:58:37
wins and fails.
00:58:39
Uh so I got all bummed out when I saw
00:58:42
this uh the shooting and I personally
00:58:44
went on social media and to make myself
00:58:46
feel better I find
00:58:48
I do find some solace or respit in data
00:58:50
and I looked up data about uh gun
00:58:53
violence and uh actually in terms of
00:58:57
homicide
00:58:58
America has never been safer and that is
00:59:01
despite all the recent public and
00:59:03
political violence and the fact that you
00:59:05
get served it on your social media feed
00:59:07
America's homicide rate fell by the fell
00:59:10
by the largest amount ever recorded in
00:59:13
2025.
00:59:15
And preliminary data tracking local
00:59:18
murder rates shows that this could be,
00:59:20
get this, the lowest murder rate since
00:59:23
1900,
00:59:25
the lowest murder rate on record. And
00:59:28
the FBI has to confirm this later in
00:59:30
2026,
00:59:32
but the decline has followed two sharp
00:59:34
declines in 23 and 24, making this a
00:59:38
sustained trend, not a blip. So, while
00:59:42
our blood pressure and our anxiety is
00:59:44
up, if you actually look at the data on
00:59:46
a lot of levels, America has never been
00:59:49
safer or less violent,
00:59:50
>> which has been the trend, which has been
00:59:52
the trend actually. And but if you just
00:59:54
watch Tik Tok or these videos, you would
00:59:56
think it's chaos in the Wild West
00:59:59
everywhere. Also,
01:00:00
>> except in schools, Scott, school
01:00:02
shootings are way up. It's crazy.
01:00:03
>> I think that's fair. I I And mass
01:00:06
shootings are way up.
01:00:07
>> Mass shootings. Yeah.
01:00:08
>> But the actual the actual number of
01:00:10
homicides,
01:00:11
>> yeah,
01:00:12
>> is at appears to be at an all-time low.
01:00:14
>> Yeah. All right.
01:00:15
>> Also, drug overdose deaths are seeing a
01:00:17
sustained decline. In the 12 months
01:00:18
before November 2025, the US saw about
01:00:21
70,000 drug overdose deaths, which is a
01:00:23
16% decline from the year before. And in
01:00:26
2024, overdose deaths fell 27%, the
01:00:30
largest single year decline on record.
01:00:31
It feels as if, you know, we did
01:00:34
recognize or started to move in on the
01:00:36
opiate crisis and we're seeing a really
01:00:38
healthy, wonderful decline in overdose
01:00:40
deaths. Uh, anyways, I just I I always
01:00:43
like to go to the data when I'm freaking
01:00:44
out to see should I be freaking out and
01:00:47
upset and I do find comfort in the fact
01:00:49
that it does look like America is
01:00:51
becoming less or the homicide rate
01:00:54
appears to be at an all-time low. Um,
01:00:57
my loss is more depressing. My loss is
01:01:00
um um an increase in HIV diagnoses in
01:01:04
Zambia um a year after the Trump
01:01:06
administration froze PEPFAR
01:01:09
which is just America at its best. HIV
01:01:12
services in parts of Zambia
01:01:15
>> and they basically it's collapsed the
01:01:17
funding and now new infections are
01:01:19
rising. Zambia had 84% of its HIV
01:01:22
financing coming from PEPFAR at the
01:01:24
start of 2025,
01:01:26
which is one of the largest aid
01:01:27
dependencies of any country globally.
01:01:29
And the cuts put 23,000 health workers
01:01:32
supporting the HIV response out of work.
01:01:34
23,000 people working on HIV.
01:01:38
>> George Bush thing, by the way, for
01:01:39
people.
01:01:40
>> Yeah. PEPAR, it's his legacy, his most
01:01:42
positive legacy.
01:01:43
>> Absolutely. And in clinics where
01:01:44
services were interrupted, new HIV
01:01:46
diagnoses dropped nearly 30 um%. In
01:01:51
other words, they're not diagnosing it.
01:01:52
And not because infections fell, but
01:01:54
because people stopped getting tested.
01:01:56
And for the first time in PEPAR's
01:01:58
history, the program put fewer people on
01:02:00
HIV therapy than the year before. And
01:02:02
without rapid restoration, models
01:02:05
project um HIV prevalence in Zambia
01:02:08
could quadruple with more than one and a
01:02:11
half million lives at risk. uh children
01:02:13
and women hit hardest and globally
01:02:17
sustained funding gaps uh could produce
01:02:20
6 million additional infections and 4
01:02:22
million more AIDS deaths by 2029.
01:02:25
So it's it's really strange. It's and I
01:02:28
wrote about this in my newsletter last
01:02:29
week. If you want to kill millions of
01:02:31
people, do it slow and methodically. And
01:02:33
there's definitely a zone of empathy
01:02:35
where when people are thousands of miles
01:02:38
away, you're somewhat comfortable with
01:02:41
millions of deaths.
01:02:42
>> It's um I believe this is all Musk and
01:02:46
Trump on their
01:02:47
>> Doge and Trump. This is just
01:02:49
>> and also it's not only the wrong thing
01:02:51
to do this this funding these funding
01:02:54
cuts. It's the stupid thing to do
01:02:55
because what people don't realize is how
01:02:57
much we benefit from the soft power and
01:03:00
positive brand of America. They're
01:03:01
obnoxious. They're a bit imperialist,
01:03:03
but at the end of the day, their heart's
01:03:05
in the right place. They know people who
01:03:07
got funding. They know a soup kitchen in
01:03:10
Ukraine. They know someone who survived.
01:03:13
This is why I was so [ __ ] pissed off.
01:03:14
I'm not pissed off. All the all the
01:03:17
bullshits. Oh, I won't call. All the
01:03:18
scrutiny and virtue signaling around
01:03:21
Bill Gates. Quite frankly, the four
01:03:24
million people alive who would have died
01:03:26
from malaria don't give a flying [ __ ]
01:03:28
that Bill Gates [ __ ] Russian
01:03:29
prostitutes. Like in my mind, Bill gets
01:03:32
a lot of hall passes.
01:03:34
>> Anyways, a little bit of a diversion
01:03:35
there.
01:03:36
>> Okay. All right.
01:03:36
>> But we have we have millions of people
01:03:39
dying and it's it reflects so poorly our
01:03:43
budgets reflect our values and the fact
01:03:46
that we decided to cut this budget which
01:03:48
is arguably the best money spent both
01:03:50
from a brand perception and just a
01:03:52
morality viewpoint. Million I mean for
01:03:55
God's sakes.
01:03:56
>> Yep.
01:03:57
>> 4 million people. I know it's there's
01:03:59
going to be millions more. Um, can I
01:04:01
just say I'm we have to get going, but I
01:04:03
I was walking in DC this weekend. It's
01:04:06
so funny upper of this is I was walking
01:04:08
with my kids and Amanda and this woman
01:04:10
was walking behind us and then got in
01:04:13
front of us and then she turned around
01:04:14
and realized who I was and she said,
01:04:16
"Can I just thank you and Scott Galloway
01:04:18
for talking about this issue?" She's
01:04:20
from USAD and she goes, she goes, "I
01:04:23
just want to say you all talking about
01:04:25
it all the time makes the biggest
01:04:26
difference." and I was sort of she's
01:04:28
like I was laid off the things were the
01:04:30
thing the damage that's been done has
01:04:32
been irreparable in many ways and she
01:04:35
just was lovely just was she she got
01:04:37
very emotional and I was like well
01:04:39
you're doing the real work like you know
01:04:41
not us um but anyway I'm glad you
01:04:43
brought that up totally separate like
01:04:45
literally yesterday it happened
01:04:47
>> I heard from I heard from so there was
01:04:50
this lovely young man in my fraternity
01:04:52
named Greg Townsend
01:04:54
>> everybody one of those guys everybody
01:04:55
liked everybody liked and we went to the
01:04:57
same high school. He was a couple years
01:04:58
younger than me. Hadn't heard from him
01:05:00
in 30 years. We do that segment talking
01:05:03
about cutting funding. He went to a he
01:05:06
went to law school and decided he wanted
01:05:08
to devote his life to um hunting down
01:05:12
and prosecuting war criminals for the UN
01:05:15
or some agency out of Switzerland. So
01:05:17
he's spent the last 20 years building
01:05:18
cases against war criminals to try and
01:05:21
create disincentive for people to think
01:05:24
twice when they go out and start
01:05:26
committing war crimes. And he got a
01:05:28
notice that because of government
01:05:30
cutting and in Doge that he's out of a
01:05:32
job. And I'm like to have a guy that
01:05:34
talented who could have been making 2
01:05:35
million bucks a year protecting white
01:05:37
collar crime for Scat and Aarbs decide
01:05:39
that no
01:05:39
>> defending Elon Musk and his lawsuit.
01:05:41
>> Yeah. He said no. I want to create
01:05:43
disincentive such that leaders think
01:05:45
twice before they start killing
01:05:47
civilians. And he's I can't think this
01:05:50
kid was so smart and so talented.
01:05:53
>> We need to restore much of this. Not all
01:05:55
of it, but much of it.
01:05:56
>> And what do we do when we get the gift
01:05:57
of these people's humanity where they
01:05:59
decide to apply their expertise against
01:06:02
saving people we will never meet,
01:06:05
disincentivizing acts of war, acts of
01:06:07
horror, and then we cut the funding.
01:06:10
>> Yep. Yep. All right. Well, that's great.
01:06:12
I think that's a great one. Anyway, we
01:06:14
want to hear from you. Send us your
01:06:15
questions about business, tech, or
01:06:16
whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:06:17
nymag.com/pivot
01:06:19
to submit a question for the show or
01:06:20
call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen
01:06:23
Scott universe, this week on On with
01:06:25
Cara Swisser, I spoke to Ested Hearnden,
01:06:27
host of the new Bucks podcast, America
01:06:29
Act, who's a former New York Times, a
01:06:31
wonderful New York Times reporter. We
01:06:33
talked about the uh uh about the show,
01:06:35
what politics will be like after Trump
01:06:37
and the playbook Democrats will be using
01:06:38
in the upcoming midterms and beyond.
01:06:40
Let's listen to a quick clip.
01:06:41
>> Maybe it's become a little more
01:06:42
progressive, but it's certainly become
01:06:44
more um activist. It's certainly become
01:06:47
more um uh less passive for I think the
01:06:50
traditional Democratic playbook. And so
01:06:52
I think those shifts are some of what
01:06:54
we're seeing in Maine and I think what
01:06:56
we're seeing across the country.
01:06:57
>> Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:06:58
listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and
01:06:59
subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll
01:07:01
be back on Friday.
