00:00:00
The biggest psychological tax cut in history would be if we elected a technocrat
00:00:08
who maybe checked in once a month. >> Yeah, I agree. >> But wasn't in your face every [ __ ]
00:00:13
day and dominating the table conversation at dinner. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:24
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser with my annual cold. Nice.
00:00:30
>> Uh, it seems it seems to be semianual. See, the thing is it's kids.
00:00:34
>> Yeah, it is. But I haven't gotten sick for a while, actually. >> Yeah,
00:00:37
>> it's been a while. Very long. You remember I got sick all the time when
00:00:40
they were babies. >> I do remember that. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm I'm This is going to sound very
00:00:45
maha, but I think I've been sick two or three times as an adult, and I'm
00:00:49
convinced it's because I never went to the doctor and never had antibiotics as
00:00:51
a kid. >> Oh, interesting. What? Really? That's >> I get sick on the dime every 10 years.
00:00:57
>> Really? Of what? >> I don't get sick. I have a cough or something. But no, my point is I I
00:01:02
couldn't tell you the last time I was sick. >> Anyway, let's get to the news. As we
00:01:06
record, Cole Thomas Allen, the 31-year-old suspect in the White House correspondent's dinner shooting, is set
00:01:10
to be arraigned in federal court. He'll be charged with two counts of using a
00:01:14
firearm and one count of assault on a federal official using a dangerous weapon. US Attorney for DC Janine Piro
00:01:21
says more charges are expected. Alan was arrested Saturday night after running through a security checkpoint at the
00:01:27
Washington Hilton and exchanging fire with law enforcement. Um, President Trump and top officials were rushed out
00:01:33
of the room while journalists and other attendees took cover under the tables except one guy who kept eating his
00:01:38
salad. Um, the motive is still being determined though Allen appeared to be targeting Trump and the administration
00:01:44
officials but not Cash Patel for some reason. According to his writings, he also mentioned lack security and that he
00:01:50
expected more security there. He was a guest at the hotel and he walked very close to the ballroom. I have been there
00:01:57
and various people are debating it, but he was very close. He's right before the
00:02:02
stairs that you go down into the ballroom um having been there. Um we'll get to to Trump and the the ballroom
00:02:09
stuff, but what was your initial reaction and what do you make of the coverage? I was I I was not I there's
00:02:15
some people did a great job and it's worth noting by the way the president cabinet officials and journalists
00:02:20
experience Saturday night is something that many Americans face every day especially school kids though without
00:02:25
the protection of the Secret Service. So this was the finest protection in the land and it didn't really work as well
00:02:30
as it should have. Um although nobody got hurt um except for one officer uh who was shot. Your first thoughts? Well,
00:02:38
my first thoughts were somewhat superficial on that is the brand that is the US is just eroding around the world.
00:02:44
You know, Putin isn't chased out by a gunman of a hall that's supposed to be a
00:02:48
social gathering. It just America comes across as a rogue nation that is chaotic
00:02:54
and has no control internally. But immediately, I don't think I don't think
00:03:00
it's fair to say that the president is so incendiary that this is his fault.
00:03:03
Nor do I think it's fair to say that the Democrats being critical of the president raises ele escalation of
00:03:09
violence. I think at the end of the day, you have a large cohort of of usually young men who have a mental breakdown or
00:03:20
a psychotic break and then they have access to firearms and they typically go after in what they believe will be a
00:03:28
restoration of social capital and a heroic act of violence. They go after very very famous people. And the thing
00:03:34
about Trump, and I'm not saying his fault, but it is just a fact. >> He's in everyone's [ __ ] face and in
00:03:40
their brain all goddamn day over and over and over. >> Yeah. >> He's like the biggest psychological tax
00:03:48
cut in history >> would be if we elected a technocrat who maybe checked in once a month.
00:03:56
>> Yeah, I agree. but wasn't in your face every [ __ ] day and dominating the
00:04:00
table conversation at dinner. And so the most famous people will always unfortunately be targets that that that
00:04:09
mental illness will manifest in more shootings as long as people have access this type of access to guns. If he had
00:04:16
tried to fly, he wouldn't have been able to do it. But you can cross state lines
00:04:20
on a train with firearms. Also, my first and I'll let you go. My also my first
00:04:25
reaction is when I heard about this guy, a Caltech grad who was teacher of the year.
00:04:30
>> He's a very good writer by the way >> and he's very eloquent. You read his
00:04:34
manifesto and it's like Jesus, I don't agree with it, but the guy is >> it's just such a tragedy. His life is
00:04:40
ruined. >> Yeah. >> And to see to see an event I think the event is [ __ ] stupid. I was invited
00:04:45
last year. I have no desire as part of what I'll call the fringe alternative
00:04:49
media show up and have basically a hijacker lecture me about air safety. I do not understand how people in the
00:04:57
media go to a go to a celebration in ties to hear a man say you're fake news
00:05:02
and you're I I have no idea why anyone would show. Kudos to the New York Times
00:05:06
who does not go. >> There were times reporters there covering the president in the pool which
00:05:11
seems perfectly appropriate. They travel with him wherever he goes. But I have to
00:05:15
say I just I covered it as back as I've noticed you said I covered it back in
00:05:19
the Truman administration. Um I mean I mean the Roosevelt administration tr >> I got that I got that wrong. I'm sorry.
00:05:28
It was um it was uh yeah that's right. I was going to I was waiting for I couldn't remember FDR.
00:05:33
>> I hated it when I covered it 20ome years ago. I thought it was such a suckup
00:05:38
between um public officials and the media. I don't like the grid iron dinner. I don't like any of I hated
00:05:44
covering them. And even then it seemed like so um it's one of the reasons I left Washington sort of the the cozy
00:05:51
relationship. And now he was going to come and insult them. First of all, everyone in that room in his cabinet has
00:05:58
taken shots at the press in a really repulsive way. And even though other presidents have been hostile to the
00:06:03
press, this is explicit attacks. Um and so he was ready to and even Carolyn Levit said it. He's some shots will be
00:06:10
fired. That's the last thing she said like minutes before this happened to a a
00:06:15
media person. And he was going to attack everyone. And I was thinking I was talking to a few people there. I'm like,
00:06:20
"What are you going to do if he starts directly attacking you or your company?
00:06:25
You're going to get up and walk in a really gross and crass way, which he was
00:06:29
planning to do, I believe." Um, and then of course he used the opportunity for
00:06:34
propaganda. Every single one of his lackeyis messaged the same thing about the ballroom. We'll get to that in a
00:06:40
second. Um, and and it just is this sort of and I thought the press were especially lap lap doggy throughout and
00:06:48
also performative as influencers. Three people stood out as doing their job, which was Wolf Blitzer, who happened to
00:06:55
be near the gunman. He just called in from his phone and he said, "What happened?" That's it. He didn't say, "I
00:07:01
I lost my shoe." Which he apparently did. He didn't say, "Oh, wo is me." He
00:07:06
didn't act like um it was anything but his job to say to tell CNN what happened. Same thing with Sarah Seidner.
00:07:13
Very calm. Same thing actually with Stephanie Rule. Tons of people both online, especially online and on on the
00:07:20
air were like this is how I feel about this. And I was like I don't give a [ __ ]
00:07:25
what you feel about it. What is happening? What's going on? Um and a lot of like there was one reporter who was
00:07:32
pointing the camera towards herself. like I don't not what was happening like
00:07:37
I'm under the table. I'm like good for you if you're going to do this pointed
00:07:41
outwards so we can see what's there was plenty of video by the way which was
00:07:45
disturbing but um it just was this like all these media people trying to behave like and get their licks in like they
00:07:53
were influencers and I just and then of course the influencers were too you know
00:07:57
doing you know all manner of nonsense. So I found it very disappointing in the press conference after they let him get
00:08:04
away with stuff. The only you know at one point Norah O'Donnell from CBS which
00:08:08
has been particularly obsequious to Trump got the interview but Norah did try her best to do like tough question
00:08:15
not tough questions but pertinent questions and Trump called her disgrace. So he had just minutes just the day
00:08:22
before talked about unity and then he was talk he was calling her a disgrace and you're discuss whatever whatever
00:08:27
words he uses for the press. So, I thought it was a fail. I thought init the whole thing is a fail. Um, but it's
00:08:35
uh and then there was I mean a party I happened to have been invited to which I didn't go to obviously after they kept
00:08:41
doing the party, you know, it's just weird. Anyway, >> but we don't in a in a culture of
00:08:47
violence or again for me at all reverse engineers do. We don't have a monopoly
00:08:51
on political division. We don't have a monopoly on mentally ill men. We have a
00:08:55
monopoly on political division mentally ill men with access to just such easy access to firearms and also
00:09:02
>> the secret service. There's only so much you can do if you want a president to go
00:09:06
out in the public. If you want to be able to walk around freely >> the most disappointing thing
00:09:10
>> that there was more private security employed in America than there are cops
00:09:13
now and the secret service can only do so much. The other thing is this levy is such an enormous tax on us. One,
00:09:22
one of the things I love about my school here in London, you know what they don't
00:09:25
have? >> They do not have shooter drills. >> Yeah. >> I I just don't think any 11year-old
00:09:31
should have to engage in a shooter drill. I just something's wrong, right? And
00:09:38
the other tax we're about to all pay as someone who travels a lot. I travel a
00:09:42
lot to hotels where there'll be some political event or whatever or they're
00:09:46
hosting the president of Finland. It's going to be another [ __ ] 10 minutes
00:09:50
to get in and out of a hotel now because part of the security lapse here was this
00:09:54
guy figured out a hack and that is just staying at the hotel being a guest. You get past the first level of security.
00:10:00
>> He could have gotten all the way to the ballroom without that. I have to tell
00:10:04
you it's >> But didn't he have did wasn't it easier because he checked into the hotel?
00:10:08
>> He could bring his gun in. Yes. But he could have hidden a gun easily. There
00:10:12
there is so little I've go I don't go to these things anymore cuz there's so
00:10:16
little security. And then the fact that you have to do security. I I mean although I have to say there was there
00:10:21
was more security at a concert than you know than anything else that I've been
00:10:26
to. But this should be the top level of security. And then you had the whole press corps hiding under tables. It's
00:10:32
just the whole visual is so bad. And then the per and then Trump of course took advantage of it in the aftermath of
00:10:38
the shooting. He was quick to say the incident underscored the need for his $400 million White House ballroom. He
00:10:44
argued that if the event had been held in a military top secret ballroom, whatever that is, the shooting never
00:10:50
would have happened. Of course, well, no, the White House has been attacked. But still, um, it's not just Trump. MAGA
00:10:56
accounts and I said administration officials started like acting ag Todd Blanch are tweeting about the ballroom
00:11:02
instantly. There were con, of course, the worst part about it were these conspiracy theories floating around from
00:11:08
the left and the right claiming the shooting was staged or that they let him in so that they could create a situation
00:11:14
so that they can pitch the ballroom or that it wasn't they had him in a holding
00:11:19
room. Uh, you know, this that was in insane, you know. >> So, so ju just a just a quick comment
00:11:26
because I'm I'm really I'm asking this question and I'm open to learning here
00:11:29
because I purposely try to avoid media this weekend. the notion that okay this is the world
00:11:36
we live in both sides will try and make political hay of it that in fact one use
00:11:42
of the ballroom might be an an ability to have more secure events like this or events like this with more security to
00:11:48
me distinct of the im immediate politicization of a of a violent event or near violent event was wrong but that
00:11:55
argument to me seems reasonable your thoughts >> yes yes but not the way he did it and
00:12:01
he's just trying to jam it through he just tore down the house without any he
00:12:04
is supposed to consult with Congress. He's he just he just wanted to jam it through. There's also a whole facility
00:12:09
under there that nobody knows anything about. Probably should they. Um but the except for the right people, but um who
00:12:17
whose job it is is to protect the White House. Um there's no question they need
00:12:21
a ballroom at the White House. I've gone there a million times and it's really
00:12:25
underwhelming as a as a facility. That said, this event couldn't have fit in
00:12:29
that. It's too small. the even though the ballroom is ridiculously large. So
00:12:33
he the fact that he took the opportunity for something it could have never taken
00:12:37
place there um was one thing but I don't I I'm not I don't equivalent
00:12:45
for lots of reasons for Prince King Charles etc etc bringing more people in having more events there although that's
00:12:54
a thing of it in and of itself if you've ever tried to get in and out of the
00:12:57
White House that takes 3 years sometimes um but that's not the it's not linked I
00:13:03
link it suddenly here and and it just seemed like oh let's you any opportunity
00:13:08
of a disaster or a tragedy to push for something that is unreasonable to have a ballroom. It's unreasonable how he did
00:13:16
it and then use this as an excuse to do so. I think it just is it makes us look just lots of people don't want the
00:13:23
ballroom. Most people think it's a good idea if he had done it in the way where
00:13:28
he's consulting architects, where he's consulting Congress and everything else.
00:13:32
Instead, he's now going to try to shove it through. And then the instant something tragic happens, MAGA accounts
00:13:38
and these administration officials, every opportunity is an opportunity for press in order to to to either shine up
00:13:46
himself as a hero of some sort or to get what he wants. And that to me is not how
00:13:52
America works. I'm sorry. I just I I agree with you. It's reasonable to think
00:13:55
we should have a ballroom, but they could only hold a certain amount of things in this ballroom even gargantuan
00:14:02
size. >> I just thought you just walk away. You always want to walk away with this was
00:14:07
right, this was wrong, this is who's at fault. I just looked at this and just
00:14:11
said, "This is bad." I just >> You're right. I think >> there's not I don't think it illuminates
00:14:16
anything about Democrats or Republicans or the president. I think what it illuminates is our country is in a
00:14:22
terrible state and and okay, let me blame someone. I just I think in 30 years we're going to look back on this
00:14:28
era and we're we're going to be just horrified at how we put cyanide in our
00:14:34
drinking water called social media >> and kept drinking it >> and just it makes everyone more
00:14:40
Americans are fearful of their neighbors than Russian soldiers pouring over the border in Ukraine. They're convinced the
00:14:47
enemy is the guy with the wrong political sign across the street from him or her. And every day you're taught
00:14:54
to believe in what is a page out of the fascist handbook, which is incredibly unfortunately profitable. You're taught
00:15:02
to believe that it's the enemy within. It's not climate change. It's not income
00:15:07
inequality. It's not it's not a fascist government or someone trying to invade
00:15:13
Europe. It's not the cease. The enemy is within is us. >> Is us. The enemy is us. No, I agree with
00:15:19
you. It feels very McCarthy era and you're right. The constant non-stop pitching. I don't I think the media
00:15:25
Trump has been doing prop propaganda for a decade now. It's a decade in our brains and the media still hasn't
00:15:32
figured out how to cover him. They should get back to the important things. Iran, affordability, gas prices. You
00:15:39
know, I do think the Epstein files is an important story. I don't think it's the
00:15:42
most important story, but it talks it's about corruption, about corruption, about um getting getting kids safe in
00:15:50
schools. Like, if this is an opportunity to talk about kids if they suddenly feel
00:15:54
nervous cuz they had a toss under the table to understand what it's like for
00:15:58
kids, fine. Like, I don't care. I just think no one behaved in any way that was
00:16:03
any way that is American to me. Anyway, we'll move on. Go ahead. Sorry. Let me
00:16:08
just have one side note because obviously I've been getting all these Tik Toks. I will say this, there was a
00:16:12
contrast just going to this this Steven Miller. >> Uhhuh. >> I do not like the guy.
00:16:19
>> Neither do I. He did walk out his wife in a very >> He did walk out his wife. Did you see
00:16:23
what the other men did? >> Yeah, they ran. >> They ran. >> And Carol Hines was chasing RFK.
00:16:28
>> Yeah, I feel I feel petty even saying this, but at least like like to Stephen
00:16:34
Steven Miller's instincts were the correct ones. >> Yeah, he did. He he had his hands on his
00:16:38
wife and was escorting his wife out. Um >> anyway, I there's no way not to come
00:16:43
away from this and just feel a little bit shittier. I don't >> I would agree. I think that's exactly
00:16:48
the reaction to have. I just I would like the press I I don't Trump is Trump.
00:16:53
He's going to behave anyway the the same way every single time and then he'll
00:16:56
switch right back to nasty. Let me say the press could do a better job. And I do give kudos to people who
00:17:04
just were reporting the facts and I agree. It's a news story, but seriously,
00:17:08
I don't really I I No, I know a lot of people are traumatized, but I don't want
00:17:13
to know how you feel. I want you to tell me what's happening as a news news organization. That's all. And I don't
00:17:19
want to know what you think of unity. I don't know what I don't want to hear
00:17:22
about it. I just want you to tell me what's going on, who this guy is, and do
00:17:25
the reporting. Anyway, I love the media, and I was repulsed. Um, okay. Uh, let's
00:17:31
go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon Musk and Samman head to court. big story. Actually,
00:17:38
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grow. So that's upwk.com upwork.com. Scott, we're back with more news. Elon
00:18:38
Musk and Sam Alman are headed to court this week over OpenAI's conversion to a
00:18:43
for-profit entity. Musk is asking for over $150 billion in damages from OpenAI and Microsoft and for Altman to be
00:18:51
removed from the company's board and and a CEO. I think um jury selection is
00:18:55
taking place as we tape on Monday and opening arguments are expected on Tuesday starting off with several week-l
00:19:00
long trial. Musk Alman and Sacha Nadella as well as other big tech figures are expected to testify. I we got a clip
00:19:07
from um actually CNN legal uh senior legal analyst Ellie Honeig who I've interviewed many times for. I think he's
00:19:13
really smart on what's to come. I thought he would have an interesting take. The thing about trial is it all
00:19:19
comes out because both sides by now have engaged in discovery, meaning they have
00:19:24
one another's internal emails, texts, corporate communications. Three things
00:19:28
I'm watching for. First of all, what were Altman and Musk and their principles saying about AI? Do they view
00:19:34
it as an existential threat or something else? Second of all, what do the employees think of the bosses? What are
00:19:40
the people who work in these companies really saying to one another about Sam Alman and Elon Musk? What are they
00:19:45
saying about Caris Swisser? I'll bet you're in there, Cara. I'll bet your
00:19:48
name pops up in this trial. And then third of all, how will Altman and Musk fare on cross-exam? Cuz these are two
00:19:54
guys, moguls, used to being told, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir." Now they're going to get
00:19:58
cross-examined by aggressive litigators who are looking to undermine them, discredit them, maybe even embarrass
00:20:04
them. How's that going to go? This will be fascinating. Check it out. >> Uh, I thought that was pretty smart. I
00:20:08
mean, it's the technical aspects of this are really interesting. Um, what I don't
00:20:13
understand is why this was going to trial, why they didn't settle. Um, the only thing I can think of is that I mean
00:20:18
to me open a should have somehow settled with him. But there's no plus for Musk
00:20:22
to settle even though most odds are that he is going to lose. Um, it's a really
00:20:28
complex trial. It's a jury trial but the jurors cannot decide on dies. The judge
00:20:34
only can. The judge allowed certain things to go forward that most people think are ridiculous. Um, you know, most
00:20:41
of the odds are Musk will not win. But I can't believe they didn't settle cuz my
00:20:46
only thing is is Musk loves this. He's already a villain. And when you you start wrestling with a pig, the pig
00:20:53
likes it and you get filthy. And so I don't think it's good for open AI at
00:20:57
all. >> It's interesting. I had and again you you you might be right here, I might be
00:21:03
wrong. My initial reaction was that Musk has more to lose and that he'll settle
00:21:09
right as the trial is beginning or right after it starts. >> Okay. Tell me why
00:21:13
>> Musk isn't doing this cuz he's Okay, so the basic premise is this is supposed to
00:21:18
be a nonprofit focusing on protecting the public from AI. Okay. He then, my understanding is wanted to buy
00:21:28
it or he wanted to control it. >> He wanted to control it. Yes. And then walked out. He did walk out.
00:21:34
>> And so and then when Alman said, "No, you don't get to control it." He said,
00:21:38
"Then I'm taking my ball and I'm leaving." thing and he signed a ton of
00:21:41
documents saying I no longer have ownership in this. >> Yeah. >> And then when it converted to become the
00:21:45
leading AI platform in the world, he went [ __ ] crazy >> and he has his own company
00:21:50
>> that he But here's a guy who's very concerned with ensuring there's an
00:21:55
entity policing AI safety and regulation, but he starts his own forprofit AI. >> Yeah, exactly.
00:22:01
>> As your the commentator very deafly said, these guys aren't used to a
00:22:06
cross-examination with emails that says, "I'm not impressed with you. You are
00:22:10
full of [ __ ] You wanted to control this. When you couldn't control it, you
00:22:16
threw a hit. You threw a fit. You have signed papers that are legally enforcable with no ownership. And now,
00:22:22
>> like the Twitter when he took over tried to get out of the Twitter deal saying,
00:22:26
>> "Yeah, this guy, he's angry that he he walked away from what ended up being the
00:22:30
best I kicking myself because I've had two investments recently that have gone
00:22:35
bad and they needed to raise more capital. And one of the things about investing early is you have your pro
00:22:40
rata. And I wasn't sure whether to invest or not. And on one specifically, I didn't do my PR rata. And then they
00:22:45
figured out a way to develop these innovative turbines to power off-grid AI centers. And the valuation has gone up
00:22:51
10x. >> Wow. And so you feel like I'm a >> and now I'm [ __ ] furious.
00:22:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I'm not going to go back and sue the company. I mean,
00:22:58
>> right. >> So I I think Discovery here I think Musk's lawyers are going to say, you
00:23:04
realize you can't perger yourself. this isn't Twitter. You can't lie. And when
00:23:10
they he goes, "This is the" and they the day before in the briefing or the
00:23:14
coaching of him, they're going to say, "This is what I would ask you and you
00:23:18
can't lie and this is the evidence they're going to bring up and he's going
00:23:22
to go settle this." >> Yeah. >> I think he's playing poker.
00:23:26
>> Like, by the way, he has settled. >> Remember the Delaware Chancery Court?
00:23:29
>> Yeah. Mhm. >> He was like, "Threatening threatening threatening." Okay.
00:23:33
>> I I think you're very smart here. I think that's probably my I don't believe
00:23:37
none of them settled you know I don't I guess going to court is always like why
00:23:42
couldn't you possibly settle this right essentially very crude instrument >> which I don't understand why neither of
00:23:50
them did on both sides right >> and it seemed like I mean it's always up
00:23:55
until the trial where they settle right that's always the >> well he's trying to slow them down he's
00:23:59
trying to create doubt >> that's the other thing >> hurt their fundraising capabilities slow
00:24:03
them down IPO So >> I think if I believe if Musk want Musk ideally I believe if he was and he's
00:24:10
very smart would be trying to delay the case to create to maintain >> he has I think he has done that. I think
00:24:15
he's out >> and Open AI wants to go to court and say you signed papers
00:24:21
>> legally forfeiting your ownership and governance here. Yeah, >> you're out.
00:24:25
>> Yeah. One of the things that's interesting about it is that obviously
00:24:29
he created his own companies that aren't doing as well. um is that he when I when
00:24:34
he both of them started talking about this back in the day they were worried about the strength of Google and
00:24:40
Facebook and others they were maybe in their own self-interest but at the time it was a real I would say a genuine
00:24:46
worry about where AI was being developed especially that the government had abregated its responsibility so you know
00:24:53
these two have come a long way what's interesting it's also a duel of their
00:24:56
reputations now Elon's full-on villain now right so it'll be interesting to see
00:25:01
how jury thinks of him. Alman now doesn't have a great reputation, right? Is he a liar? There's a lot of, you
00:25:07
know, after the Ronan Pharaoh piece and everything else. The thing is, I think most juries haven't really paid
00:25:11
attention to the Sam Alman portion of this reputation decline. I think they all know Elon Musk is a giant [ __ ]
00:25:20
So, I think that probably um or you know, every bit of him jumping up and down and being so partisan and you know,
00:25:26
posting racist stuff all over the he's doing that more than ever recently. Um
00:25:33
I think he's in in a on his back foot on this because I as much as I'd like to
00:25:38
paint Sam as this oily liar essentially, I don't think it's sunk in with most
00:25:42
people. I don't I just don't I don't think they even know who he is kind of
00:25:46
thing. But >> not only that, the secret weapon here I think for for OpenAI will be Nadella. I think
00:25:54
Nadella will reflect really well on Open AI. He comes across as very measured. >> Yeah.
00:26:01
>> And I I I would love to be I would love to be the defense council here. It's
00:26:06
like, okay, so you're claiming you're so concerned about protection and safety.
00:26:12
What have you done? Have you did you go and start? You have you're the wealthiest man in the world. Did you
00:26:17
start another entity looking at safety or oh wait, you've you've you started a
00:26:21
for-profit AI and you're competing against this company. Isn't this nothing
00:26:25
but an attempt to slow them down because you're jealous you [ __ ] up and sold
00:26:29
your shares? I I just I think this is going to be a very easy narrative for for the defense to say this the
00:26:38
wealthiest man in the world is trying to abuse you, waste your time and get in the way of the capitalism, the small
00:26:44
part of capitalism, the small part of the internet he doesn't own and he's
00:26:48
furious about it. He owns space. He owns EVs. He owns, you know, a 180 character
00:26:55
messaging application. But because he [ __ ] up and sold the best corner of AI, he now wants it back.
00:27:02
>> He wants everything. Yeah. He's this greedy [ __ ] Yeah, it's true. I don't
00:27:05
think slamming Alman's going to work here. And he's tried to, trust, he's
00:27:09
really tried to and personally and professionally. Um, but >> it'll make them both look bad. There'll
00:27:14
be emails that'll come out that'll be like, "Everyone look bad. >> Everyone looks bad." Well, it's great.
00:27:18
It's great for brand AI. Again, the only one who looks good, Daario, whom I spent
00:27:23
time with this weekend. He's a >> What was your general impression? >> It was an off the record thing, but he
00:27:28
was, I have to say, very funny. Doesn't like any of these people, by the way.
00:27:33
>> Um, but very funny. I'm not going to call him Steve Jobs, but he at least had
00:27:38
range to talk about. You know, I reread his essay um machines of loving grace, which I hated the headline of many. It
00:27:45
was two years ago and was talking about that and I have to say he's ariodite
00:27:49
like he was quoting from Arcadia and stuff like that. And I think he he's a he's a very complex and interesting
00:27:55
figure and much more jolly than I give him credit for in a way. So he's it's
00:28:01
you know he's having the time of his life because they're all like shooting
00:28:04
each other in the head and he's merrily going along and being the successful one
00:28:08
and creating the best technology. So anyway, I I I really actually I hate to say this cuz I I really enjoyed talking
00:28:16
to him. I did. It was it was fun. It was he also give gives as good as he gets. Um and I like that like he wasn't scared
00:28:25
of questions which a lot of them get all >> Did you do it was it on with Caris
00:28:29
Fisher? No, not yet. But he's coming on with car and I told him about your interest. Anyway, I really enjoyed it.
00:28:35
It was an enjoyable interview, I have to say. Um, by the way, speaking of Sam Alman, he apologized to the community of
00:28:41
Tumblr Ridge for failing to alert authorities about an account of a shooter who killed eight people and
00:28:47
whose chat GPT account was suspended for violent messages. In the letter, Altman
00:28:51
reaffirmed a commitment to find ways to prevent similar tragedies in the future.
00:28:56
I I this is it's always a backwards looking like oh sorry I don't know I
00:29:02
just feel like they can apologize all they want why don't they create services
00:29:05
that have some level of safety or reporting uh despite all the free speech stuff there's some clear clear worries
00:29:12
that people have if you had someone in your neighborhood who was doing this you would turn them in would so I don't know
00:29:20
what to say >> we had a school I was involved in Florida you know we had a kid writing or
00:29:26
drawing violent weird images. Next day FB FBI was at their house looking for firearms.
00:29:33
And so there's got to be I mean to Sam's credit he did what most of these guys
00:29:38
don't do. He apologized um and he's he is claiming to want to put in some sort
00:29:42
of safeguards but he we shouldn't need their apologies and their safeguards. There should be
00:29:47
regularly help here. >> It should be liability. It should be you guys have this you have technology that
00:29:54
can scan basically everything that's ever been written in history and then start making really intelligent thesis
00:30:02
on what should be written about this topic by recognizing past patterns of everything that has been written in
00:30:08
history. You should be able to highlight threats pretty easily and then immediately using the agentic layer
00:30:16
notify that local police department and not overwhelm them but say okay this is level nine threat.
00:30:24
>> Right. Exactly. >> What do you want to do with it? What how can we cooperate with you?
00:30:29
>> And that's where humans get involved. We you know they they observe it. This is
00:30:33
just reporting possible danger and it should be easy for these people but it's
00:30:37
not. By the way, speaking of Anthropic, Google plans to invest as much as $40 billion in the company, $10 billion now,
00:30:44
and another $30 billion would be invested when Anthropic meets certain milestones. Probably smart move from
00:30:49
Google, who is also a dominant player in this who is quietly I think remember your I said I think Google will win all
00:30:56
this because they have all the parts. I think they've handled this really well
00:30:59
and I think investing in anthropic in this case is probably a very good idea for them.
00:31:04
>> Yeah. And then what I saw which shocked me is there it's val the deal values
00:31:08
anthropic at 350 billion. I was potentially I indirectly own anthropic shares but
00:31:13
>> no from you bought the Sam Bankman Freed stuff right >> yeah about the FTX claims which owned a
00:31:17
bunch of anthropic lot >> um but anyways the uh in the secondary market I follow the secondary markets
00:31:23
anthropic trading at a trillion dollars. >> Wow. >> Anthropic is now trading at a higher
00:31:28
valuation in the secondary markets than >> Open AI. So Google coming in here,
00:31:34
they'll get a preference on it. >> They're strategic. Yeah, it's a great
00:31:38
investment. I would invest. Um, hello Dario. I would invest at 300 of $350 million.
00:31:44
>> I'll I'll give you his let him know. Anyway, >> not a journalist. Not
00:31:48
>> a journalist. I do not want to invest Dario, but I I really did enjoy talking
00:31:52
to you. Uh, last thing, Meta Plans lay off around 10% of its workforce. It sort of went under the radar. 6,000 open and
00:31:58
closed 6,000 open roles. The company's chief people officer said the move was
00:32:02
being made to run the c company more efficiently and to offset other investments. Maybe that he lost 75
00:32:08
billion in the metaverse. But meanwhile, Microsoft will begin offering voluntary
00:32:12
buyouts to 7% of US employees. One-time retirement program will be available to employees whose age and years of service
00:32:19
total 70 or higher. This is these are just stacking up these big tech layoffs where they're trying I mean I think they
00:32:25
overhire during co as you and I both said. Um, but this is a real tipping point to impact overall employment
00:32:33
levels. It seems these were the big hirers and now they're the big fireers at this point.
00:32:38
>> As I said, AI is corporate ompic. It's turned off the signal that in order to
00:32:42
grow, you need more calories. In this case, calories means employees. And I've
00:32:46
had I had Andrew Yang on my podcast who's having another moment because an Andrew is very early and precient about
00:32:54
capital replacing labor. Capital displacing labor. and and he's now getting a lot of attention correctly for
00:33:03
and he's on this whole the capital the capital destruction of labor here is just going to be dramatic and he's
00:33:09
pointing to these companies. You do though have to have some perspective and that is pre- pandemic meta 2019 had
00:33:17
35,000 employees now they have 80. So firing 8,000 people quite frankly takes them back to I think late 2024, early
00:33:27
2025. >> They overhired, that's for sure. >> So the the scary thing is these guys are
00:33:32
early adopters of AI and as their revenues grow, they're actually shrinking their workforce, which is
00:33:39
amazing for earnings. But if they're the early adopters and this starts to waterfall down to other parts of the
00:33:46
economy, you can see why people are scared. And Andrew said something really appreciate or I thought insightful. He
00:33:52
said, "The easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet." And
00:33:57
this is going to put pressure on new hires out of college. And I I don't want
00:34:02
to come across as non-empathetic, but when I graduated from Berkeley, 40% of us had jobs on graduation day, which
00:34:10
meant 60% didn't. >> Yeah, I did. And we're we're so used to anyone under the age of 40 or 45 has
00:34:17
only really known one labor economy where there's a war for talent, >> especially educated talent. And what's
00:34:23
interesting about this cycle is for the first time in decades, the unemployment rate among college grads is greater than
00:34:30
the unemployment rate among non-ol grads. So I I look at this as quite frankly just part of an economic cycle.
00:34:40
I don't buy the catastrophizing. The key question is there's no doubt this is a
00:34:45
disruption that's going to displace certain types of information work that can be routinized. The question is how
00:34:53
severe and fast it'll be because typically when we no longer need elevator operators or we no longer need
00:35:01
sewing machine operators or secretaries, it's been slow enough such that the
00:35:06
majority of the people are able to adapt, retrain and find something else. Not all of them but the majority of
00:35:12
them. The fear here is that the V is so severe and so fast that even if there was a potential recovery, there's going
00:35:21
to be so many people left out in the dust. >> Well, that's cuz people were going to
00:35:25
those job, right? That was where they, you know, I have to say, Alex Wisher called this one a while back. He's like,
00:35:30
I'm going into mechanical engineering and energy. He got right. I thought he
00:35:34
would go into computer software and he said, no, AI will replace all these things. Um, which I thought was pretty
00:35:40
pressing of him. And so he's working on areas where there is, you know, >> things making things
00:35:45
>> making things forward employment. And interestingly, Louis Swisser now may
00:35:49
have three jobs um because he's working on a campaign. He's he's and he's trying
00:35:55
doing cooking jobs. Two really interesting cooking jobs. So he's trying a variety of things which are not
00:36:01
replaceable, right? which were really it's really kind of he has it's just
00:36:05
interesting like but I have to tell you both of them were thinking about this without my prompting like where is the
00:36:13
where are the where's employment going but um but but young people have to think really hard now about that and
00:36:20
figure >> yeah but they'll they'll be fine because their mom is rich
00:36:23
>> no I understand that but they're making their own money >> middle class warfare there by the way
00:36:28
>> make their own money >> by the way car how do you spot the blind man at anus each.
00:36:32
>> Oh, wow. >> Cara, it's not hard. >> Oh, all these jokes now they're like take a
00:36:41
minute. >> Little little second order. I'm going for the intelligent stuff. I'm going for
00:36:46
the stuff that takes me an hour to figure out cuz I know that hard penis. Got it. Um, anyway, I just think it's I
00:36:53
think young people have to really think hard. AI is going to is going to massively level up some people and
00:36:59
massively massively >> uh level down level down others. But and again I I'm a contrarian say this was
00:37:06
brought up in this you know someone asked about the idea that we sort of could care less about workingass people
00:37:12
during the during the NAFTA days and now you want us to cry for information workers
00:37:17
>> for people making a ton of who are taking making a ton >> and one of the things and I it was off
00:37:21
the record but one of the things I think is just an obvious thing that Daria pointed out was that it does level up
00:37:26
the workers right because like if you're plum it does it's people have college
00:37:31
level information at their fingertips. tips that is easily digested. Exactly. Right. There's
00:37:36
>> which is interesting. >> There were more new business applications formed in the last 12
00:37:40
months than I think in any time in history. If Alex wants to start his own small company milling and manufacturing
00:37:47
ball bearings for some weird esoteric use, he doesn't need $10 million in capital and 40 engineers.
00:37:53
He needs he needs, you know, $50,000 and a bunch of site licenses and one or two
00:37:58
co-founders. So there's a there's a ton of um there's a ton of opportunity. I
00:38:05
the very basic axiom and the thing the thing I I think the next a lot of our candidates should be focused on is that
00:38:12
if you loosely break down the labor economy or capital formation to shareholders/investors,
00:38:19
workers and consumers, it's pretty easy. We need, you've had a massive leakage of
00:38:25
power, leverage, and capital from consumers and labor to investors. And we need public policy, whether it's
00:38:34
alternative minimum taxes, taxes on uh shares that you borrow against, um maybe some form of uh lowering estate tax,
00:38:42
lowering estate tax exemptions. We need to transfer capital back from investors to employees and consumers.
00:38:50
>> Yeah, I agree. And it's a fairly basic dynamic. These three entities investors
00:38:55
as a percentage of our GDP share the the market cap has never been higher. As a percentage of our GDP,
00:39:02
wages have never been lower. This isn't rocket science. We need policies. You
00:39:08
talked about one. Increase minimum wage. Stop taxing earners as much. Start taxing owners more. It's not it's not
00:39:16
complicated. People will create this incredible like arguments that it's about things they can't control like
00:39:22
network effects and AI. Don't tax. There's talk about an AI tax. There's
00:39:26
not an you shouldn't have an AI tax. You should have an alternative minimum tax
00:39:29
for any profitable company that's making billions and billions. This notion Andrew and and Andrew I think gets it 70
00:39:35
or 80% right. And we had a really productive conversation and I I'm I love Andrew Yang. I'm an investor in his
00:39:40
company because I I have so much confidence in him. But if you start I hate industry specific taxes. There's a
00:39:47
lot of talk about an AI tax right now. No. Have a tax lower payroll taxes such that it's not more expensive to hire
00:39:55
someone than buy a robot, right? And have some sort of cap. Don't let people
00:40:00
depreciate capex in year one and have payroll taxes such that it's more economically advantageous to buy a
00:40:07
[ __ ] robot as opposed to hiring somebody. >> That's a really good point. There's just
00:40:10
like some basic people now focused on and I have to say that people are very much and I think just because of these
00:40:17
layoffs at Meta and Microsoft they they bring people's attention to it in a way
00:40:21
that because they're supposed to be the big job places and so >> the bell weathers for the whole economy.
00:40:26
>> Exactly. So I think I more and more people are thinking about this idea of
00:40:30
where our employment goes which is always a good thing. Anyway um let's go on a quick break. When we come back the
00:40:36
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lens. Scott, we're back. The DOJ is ending its criminal probe into the Federal Reserve
00:42:46
and its chair, Jerome Powell. Although the US Attorney, Janine Pero, is warning the case could be reopened if new facts
00:42:51
emerge. As usual, they always cover their [ __ ] bases. Still, uh, Senator Tom Tillis says he's ready to move
00:42:57
forward with the confirmation of Trump's nominee, Kevin Worsh. And with that
00:43:00
hurdle removed, Worsh's confirmation by the end of Powell's term on May 15th is
00:43:05
looking likely. At his confirmation hearing last week, Worsh rejected the idea that he's Trump's sock puppet. Um,
00:43:10
hence the long how long after he's confirmed as Trump threatened to fire him. Let's just remember Trump hired
00:43:16
Jerome Powell. He just it wasn't a sock puppet. And that was a problem for Trump
00:43:20
who's trying to take over. I think Tom Telis did a great job here. Now, let's
00:43:24
see if Janine Piro tries to do some tricks after Worshes um is uh in place. They could do that cuz they're a bunch
00:43:32
of persistent liars. Um so, and quick thoughts. >> Um I'm glad kudos to Senator Tillis. I
00:43:40
think he's the reason that it was dropped and I'd like to see most of these cases uh
00:43:46
continue. I love I love that Patel uh Director Patel filed a suit against the Atlantic. I would love the discovery
00:43:54
against Patel. By the way, >> that tribe will never see the light today. >> No, he lost he lost one or
00:43:59
>> his lawyers are going to sit him down and go, "Okay, these are the questions
00:44:02
they're going to ask." >> Yeah, >> that was a ridiculous. That was lawfair.
00:44:06
That was a nuisance suit. I'm glad it's been dropped. That's just that's just a
00:44:10
a distraction. But I also want to bring up I've I've been very complimentary of
00:44:15
Walsh. I was again rattled by his inability to state on the record >> that Biden won the 2020 election.
00:44:22
>> I agree with you. He was a sock puppet. I think Warren did a great job interviewing him. By the way,
00:44:27
>> it's okay. You're supposed to be You're claiming you're going to be an
00:44:31
independent Fed, which is key to the growth of an economy, and you won't. So,
00:44:36
was Chairman Powell appointed legally? I mean there at some point folks there has
00:44:42
to be a truth and you have to you have to be willing to state that truth under oath and they all state the same thing
00:44:48
saying he was duly sworn in >> right yeah oh my god >> I know I know he really was a wimp he
00:44:55
definitely took some shine off of him I'll tell you that and I think they all
00:44:59
feel that way like even Tillis said to me when I interviewed him look I had to say those things cuz if not I'd get run
00:45:06
over I would be a martyr is dead you know a martyr is dead so I don't what to
00:45:10
tell you. Um, and that's a really ridiculous way to hire this thing. And of course, Trump will continue to try.
00:45:15
He has two years to try to [ __ ] up the feds. So, he will. So, Kevin Marsh, get
00:45:19
ready. You better start to find a backbone. Um, also, speaking of communism, the Trump administration is
00:45:25
reportedly considering invoking the Defense Product uh, Production Act to bail out Spirit Airlines, though it's
00:45:30
still unclear what exactly the justification would be. There's talk of a plan that would loan Spirit, which has
00:45:36
filed for bankruptcy twice, about $500 million. In exchange, the government would own as much as 90% of the airline.
00:45:42
It's a playbook we've seen before Trump with the government taking stakes in
00:45:45
Intel, US Steel, and others. But Trump is facing push back correctly from fellow Republicans with Senator Ted Cruz
00:45:52
calling the bailout a terrible idea. Um, you've said many times that some companies deserve to fail. Is Spirit one
00:45:58
of them? >> This is [ __ ] insane. Insane. Our, let me get this. We're capitalists on the
00:46:05
way up and then on the way down we bail out companies. We're crony. So we're
00:46:09
total that's not even socialism. It's cronyism. Bankruptcy as someone who has started
00:46:14
companies who have gone bankrupt. As someone who's invested in companies that
00:46:17
have gone bankrupt as someone who's been on an operator, an investor in a company
00:46:21
as we pull it emerge it out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a feature not a bug. Uh a company's the market changes
00:46:27
and the company no longer can support the assets and obligations it has given changes in the market. It declares
00:46:33
bankruptcy. They get an umbrella, basically coverage to get out of leases, to get out of capital or expenses or
00:46:40
debt to Boeing or sell their gates. They get out of union contracts. They get to
00:46:45
repackage and they reemerge to fight another day. When you start bailing out companies that aren't sustainable, all
00:46:52
you do is invite taxpayers to bail out more. The government is not supposed to pick winners and losers here. Delta,
00:46:59
American, and United all had CEOs who paid themselves $150 million in compensation due to options that were
00:47:07
artificially elevated because they took all of their free cash flow pre-COVID and used it to buy back shares, juicing
00:47:13
their stock, juicing their options, see above 150 million in compensation. And then when [ __ ] gets real and COVID comes
00:47:19
and the airlines shut down, they all decide all of a sudden, we're all in this together. And they go [ __ ] hat
00:47:25
in hand. They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt. And guess what? And we we've decided that airlines are
00:47:33
somewhat uniquely American and that we need to bail out Spirit. [ __ ] that. Burn, baby, burn. This sh this [ __ ]
00:47:40
should absolutely go out of business. And guess what? In 3 years, it's more likely to survive under the protection
00:47:47
from its creditors of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. This is stupid. >> Stupid. I agree. I don't You've said it
00:47:53
best. I it'll be interesting to see like I remember interviewing Chimath Polyhaped who said essentially this what
00:47:59
he's saying now like he's like no what we really need to do is protect these
00:48:03
things. You're right them companies deserve to >> that's socialism and as Margaret
00:48:08
Thatcher said with socialism eventually you run out of other people's money. You
00:48:11
end up with Delorean. >> You end up with Air France where you pick national champions and keep bailing
00:48:17
them out. Do you remember what it was called? And air chance that it was so bad. You don't remember.
00:48:23
>> Bankruptcy. I've been involved. I was on the board of Eddie Bower. They put me on
00:48:27
the board when they were going bankrupt. Remember them? >> Yeah. >> And And we decided, okay, the way to the
00:48:33
way to do it was to Did you just say you liked it? >> No, I never did. >> I was always like I walked in cuz then
00:48:40
Patagonia showed up or something whatever else or or REI and then >> keep up. But anyways, the one of the
00:48:46
wonderful things about America is that one, we let people and companies fail. And two,
00:48:54
we give them a second chance. And a key component of that, a key construct of that is bankruptcy law.
00:49:01
>> Yep. Yep. It works well. It works well. It keeps everyone clean. Um, speaking of
00:49:05
not clean, a US Army soldier has been charged with making $400,000 by betting on the removal of Venezuelan leader
00:49:11
Maduro on poly market. soldier used classified information. He's quite close
00:49:15
to the situation to make wagers in the weeks leading up to the capture. Poly market said it referred the matter to
00:49:21
the Justice Department. Again, of course, of course, like nobody's catching the Trump people. They get the
00:49:27
soldier who pulls this [ __ ] >> Exactly. Right. um you know but uh you know he shouldn't be exposing classified
00:49:34
information but they have got to clean up their acts poly market and the rest of them because insiders it's got to be
00:49:40
dead obvious to them who's doing this right including the Trump family or whoever close affiliations are doing
00:49:47
this they've got to go after a big fish not this I mean this soldier did the
00:49:51
wrong thing he's betraying his his his uh job um but uh it seems like we're
00:49:57
picking up the little fish Yeah, but okay. I mean, my defense would be, well, our
00:50:03
commander-in-chief is doing it, isn't he? I mean, I think I think a really scrappy state GA or attorney general
00:50:08
should be suing this guy and then figuring out a way to have discovery at the highest levels to see if they're
00:50:13
doing it because I think this is going on everywhere. >> Yeah. >> Now, I don't Is it fair to say he
00:50:19
revealed confidential information or he just traded on it? >> He knew about what was I think he was
00:50:23
part of that team. So, >> but he didn't reveal he didn't compromise the security. just traded on
00:50:28
it >> in betting on it. He certainly did by saying, "I know the outcome." Nobody
00:50:32
knew who he was, but he was using so sideways, I guess. I don't know. I guess
00:50:38
there's no getting around it. It's wrong. >> Yeah. But when people who make more
00:50:41
money as elected officials are making more money engaging in similar type behavior, whether it's trading on
00:50:47
insider information in stocks or insider, the the options activity before Trump announces anything about the war
00:50:55
in the oil market is crazy. So there are clearly dozens if not hundreds of people
00:51:00
perhaps even including cabinet members who are making money >> in the predictions markets. And so
00:51:06
>> let's find them. >> Yeah. So have it. And by the way, the the the enforcement division for crypto,
00:51:12
that was the one of the first divisions where they were fired. >> That's right.
00:51:16
>> Anyone rem anyone kind of any sheriff, anyone with a badge actually looking
00:51:20
into this stuff has been fired. Uh the same way they've neutered the IRS because they're like the the greatest
00:51:26
way, you know, the easiest way to commit crimes is to make sure there's no enforcement.
00:51:30
>> No, no cops. >> I don't want to say I feel for this guy, but I think his defense is going to be
00:51:34
pretty robust. And it's >> pointing up pointing up >> and it goes back to the same thing. Poly
00:51:42
market and cowshi shouldn't have to shouldn't have to decide. I mean so for
00:51:46
example I think kshi find somebody for for some congress people for trading. >> No they kicked them off the platform I
00:51:52
think. >> Gave them off the platform. Okay. >> I think that's like Ford Motor
00:51:57
figuring out that someone was going 100 miles an hour in their Mustang and then repossessing the Mustang. It's not up to
00:52:03
Ford. It's up to the highway patrol. It's up to the government. >> If they have a business, they should
00:52:07
make sure insider trading is not being used to bet. It's unfair to the people
00:52:10
on their platform. By the way, it doesn't >> I think it's the government's job.
00:52:13
>> I know, but for their own self-interest, if there's all these insiders [ __ ]
00:52:17
with you, it's a shitty platform, right? So, they don't have >> I get it, but it's good for their
00:52:23
business not to for people to feel like it's all gamed by rich sons of Trump
00:52:28
administration officials, etc. >> So, there's Okay, to be fair, so I'm
00:52:32
just thinking this through. There's in finance there's know your customer and
00:52:36
to trade on a platform they have to ensure you're an accredited investor. There is some regulation by the banks
00:52:42
around trading. But >> compliance divisions all investment banks do all they all have compliance
00:52:48
divisions. >> But isn't it pretty easy to hide your identity? Did this guy sign up as
00:52:51
master? >> They can find them. They can find he did. He tried but it's not that hard.
00:52:56
But is it the is it the platform's responsibility or is it the government's
00:52:59
responsibility and cooperation >> to alert people to unusual trades seconds before that kind of stuff they
00:53:04
can do and then alert government >> I don't doubt it but the enforcement
00:53:08
mechanism and and penalties should be >> govern it enforcement is referrals right
00:53:13
and that's the thing anyway not a good look for them but not a good look for
00:53:17
anyone but you know what this soldier he's a cheater but look keep looking upwards everybody because and then they
00:53:22
and you should because lots of people have benefit. >> All I got to say is that we're going to
00:53:27
put the wrong guy in prison. >> That's right. That's right. All right.
00:53:30
Anyway, one more quick break. When we get back, we'll have wins and fails. >> Support for this show comes from Virgin
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virginatlantic.com to learn more. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. You would you like
00:54:37
me to start? >> You go first. >> You know, I'm going to stick um there in
00:54:42
between this. the Trump administration terminated se uh the board, the National Science Foundation's board. Um which
00:54:47
again, it's he does all these things all the time. He's trying to hollow out any
00:54:50
kind of compliance or over people who overlook anything cuz he wants to do whatever he wants. Um but I would have
00:54:57
to say I I think the the media failed in this this thing over the weekend. It was
00:55:03
really disappointing to see so many um people acting like taking advantage of a tragedy to just
00:55:12
stick their chests out and do these dramatic videos and act like they were influencers. I thought I found it
00:55:17
embarrassing and sad. Um I uh I I ran into some of them and I looked at my shoes. I didn't know what to I for once
00:55:25
I was like I really would like to tell them they suck. Um but uh but it was uh it was disappointing and obviously
00:55:33
continued disappointment with the Trump administration taking advantage of it, but I expected them to do this and then
00:55:38
snap right back into shape. Um so I have very lower standards for Trump administration people. Um but not for
00:55:44
the media and I just this is not the way you chase audiences to chase whatever they were chasing. It was really painful
00:55:53
to watch and I do some people were really traumatized because it is terrifying. I suspect to be there. But
00:55:59
again, your job is to report the news and that's what I would really like it.
00:56:02
So kudos to those who did. Um my win. Um I just I don't know if you're watching
00:56:07
B. Middler on social media. Um she is so funny. She is sort of has a whole new life on social media and it's in it's so
00:56:16
clever. She puts out so much funny stuff and she just put out a protest song with
00:56:21
the music video featuring her and her beaches co-star Barbara Hershey. They apparently go to a lot of these kings
00:56:27
marches or marches together and I just love the two of them. I love that movie Beaches by the way. Um, and I just think
00:56:33
she's using her platform in a really very much on brand with her and I think
00:56:38
it's it dubtales into her incredible still incredible singing voice and cleverness and uh I just really love her
00:56:45
and I I love her all over again. when I was uh I think I was in college and I went with my buddy Lee to see
00:56:53
beaches as two men do. Go see >> yes the movie. Anyways, and we're sitting in line. My friend Lee Lotus is
00:57:00
literally the funniest person in the world. There's only two people that make
00:57:03
me laugh out loud. One is Lee Lotus, the other is David Frey. But anyways, we're
00:57:07
sitting in line as he used to do at the Man brewing like a line around the block
00:57:11
to see, you know, opening night of beaches with B Midler and Barbara Hershey. And we knew it was about best
00:57:17
friends and we knew one dies and everyone coming out was sobbing and Lee goes, "It must mean that Barbara Hershey
00:57:23
died. No one would sob. Midler died. No one sobs about the overweight singer dying."
00:57:28
>> And I thought that was so [ __ ] funny. I couldn't stop laughing. >> It's like no one's going to be that sad
00:57:34
about B. Midler. >> I would. She died in the She played Janice Joplin. Do you remember what was
00:57:39
that movie? >> Oh no. Let me be clear. In real life, there will be there are a few people
00:57:44
more beloved than that Midler. What I'm saying is in the movie, >> it's like it's clear that the hot the
00:57:50
hot one, the pretty girl dying is the real tragedy. >> But it was how she died and the Oh, the
00:57:55
end. Oh, >> I'm going to go back. We should watch it together cuz I would say you are the
00:58:00
wind beneath my wings, but really you're appreciate that good on bed. Yeah, she
00:58:04
was uh Barry Manalo was her pist, her backup pist when she when she was in the in the foray audiences. Always been
00:58:12
>> also I got to be honest, she's the source of one of my favorite jokes,
00:58:16
>> which is >> my favorite jokes. My partner >> uh my partner is Polish and on Friday
00:58:22
nights I dress up like Germany and invade her. >> She said that. That was her joke.
00:58:28
>> That was her joke. She said her husband her husband was German. >> Yeah. Yeah. She has a lot of dirty
00:58:33
jokes. She used to be a lot dirtier, but she's still delightful. Anyway, your
00:58:37
wins and fails. Uh so I got all bummed out when I saw this uh the shooting and I personally
00:58:44
went on social media and to make myself feel better I find I do find some solace or respit in data
00:58:50
and I looked up data about uh gun violence and uh actually in terms of homicide America has never been safer and that is
00:59:01
despite all the recent public and political violence and the fact that you get served it on your social media feed
00:59:07
America's homicide rate fell by the fell by the largest amount ever recorded in
00:59:13
2025. And preliminary data tracking local murder rates shows that this could be,
00:59:20
get this, the lowest murder rate since 1900, the lowest murder rate on record. And
00:59:28
the FBI has to confirm this later in 2026, but the decline has followed two sharp
00:59:34
declines in 23 and 24, making this a sustained trend, not a blip. So, while our blood pressure and our anxiety is
00:59:44
up, if you actually look at the data on a lot of levels, America has never been safer or less violent,
00:59:50
>> which has been the trend, which has been the trend actually. And but if you just
00:59:54
watch Tik Tok or these videos, you would think it's chaos in the Wild West everywhere. Also,
01:00:00
>> except in schools, Scott, school shootings are way up. It's crazy. >> I think that's fair. I I And mass
01:00:06
shootings are way up. >> Mass shootings. Yeah. >> But the actual the actual number of
01:00:10
homicides, >> yeah, >> is at appears to be at an all-time low. >> Yeah. All right.
01:00:15
>> Also, drug overdose deaths are seeing a sustained decline. In the 12 months
01:00:18
before November 2025, the US saw about 70,000 drug overdose deaths, which is a 16% decline from the year before. And in
01:00:26
2024, overdose deaths fell 27%, the largest single year decline on record. It feels as if, you know, we did
01:00:34
recognize or started to move in on the opiate crisis and we're seeing a really
01:00:38
healthy, wonderful decline in overdose deaths. Uh, anyways, I just I I always like to go to the data when I'm freaking
01:00:44
out to see should I be freaking out and upset and I do find comfort in the fact that it does look like America is
01:00:51
becoming less or the homicide rate appears to be at an all-time low. Um, my loss is more depressing. My loss is
01:01:00
um um an increase in HIV diagnoses in Zambia um a year after the Trump administration froze PEPFAR
01:01:09
which is just America at its best. HIV services in parts of Zambia >> and they basically it's collapsed the
01:01:17
funding and now new infections are rising. Zambia had 84% of its HIV financing coming from PEPFAR at the
01:01:24
start of 2025, which is one of the largest aid dependencies of any country globally.
01:01:29
And the cuts put 23,000 health workers supporting the HIV response out of work. 23,000 people working on HIV.
01:01:38
>> George Bush thing, by the way, for people. >> Yeah. PEPAR, it's his legacy, his most
01:01:42
positive legacy. >> Absolutely. And in clinics where services were interrupted, new HIV
01:01:46
diagnoses dropped nearly 30 um%. In other words, they're not diagnosing it. And not because infections fell, but
01:01:54
because people stopped getting tested. And for the first time in PEPAR's history, the program put fewer people on
01:02:00
HIV therapy than the year before. And without rapid restoration, models project um HIV prevalence in Zambia
01:02:08
could quadruple with more than one and a half million lives at risk. uh children
01:02:13
and women hit hardest and globally sustained funding gaps uh could produce 6 million additional infections and 4
01:02:22
million more AIDS deaths by 2029. So it's it's really strange. It's and I
01:02:28
wrote about this in my newsletter last week. If you want to kill millions of people, do it slow and methodically. And
01:02:33
there's definitely a zone of empathy where when people are thousands of miles
01:02:38
away, you're somewhat comfortable with millions of deaths. >> It's um I believe this is all Musk and
01:02:46
Trump on their >> Doge and Trump. This is just >> and also it's not only the wrong thing
01:02:51
to do this this funding these funding cuts. It's the stupid thing to do because what people don't realize is how
01:02:57
much we benefit from the soft power and positive brand of America. They're obnoxious. They're a bit imperialist,
01:03:03
but at the end of the day, their heart's in the right place. They know people who
01:03:07
got funding. They know a soup kitchen in Ukraine. They know someone who survived.
01:03:13
This is why I was so [ __ ] pissed off. I'm not pissed off. All the all the bullshits. Oh, I won't call. All the
01:03:18
scrutiny and virtue signaling around Bill Gates. Quite frankly, the four million people alive who would have died
01:03:26
from malaria don't give a flying [ __ ] that Bill Gates [ __ ] Russian prostitutes. Like in my mind, Bill gets
01:03:32
a lot of hall passes. >> Anyways, a little bit of a diversion there. >> Okay. All right.
01:03:36
>> But we have we have millions of people dying and it's it reflects so poorly our
01:03:43
budgets reflect our values and the fact that we decided to cut this budget which
01:03:48
is arguably the best money spent both from a brand perception and just a morality viewpoint. Million I mean for
01:03:55
God's sakes. >> Yep. >> 4 million people. I know it's there's
01:03:59
going to be millions more. Um, can I just say I'm we have to get going, but I
01:04:03
I was walking in DC this weekend. It's so funny upper of this is I was walking
01:04:08
with my kids and Amanda and this woman was walking behind us and then got in front of us and then she turned around
01:04:14
and realized who I was and she said, "Can I just thank you and Scott Galloway
01:04:18
for talking about this issue?" She's from USAD and she goes, she goes, "I
01:04:23
just want to say you all talking about it all the time makes the biggest difference." and I was sort of she's
01:04:28
like I was laid off the things were the thing the damage that's been done has
01:04:32
been irreparable in many ways and she just was lovely just was she she got very emotional and I was like well
01:04:39
you're doing the real work like you know not us um but anyway I'm glad you
01:04:43
brought that up totally separate like literally yesterday it happened >> I heard from I heard from so there was
01:04:50
this lovely young man in my fraternity named Greg Townsend >> everybody one of those guys everybody
01:04:55
liked everybody liked and we went to the same high school. He was a couple years
01:04:58
younger than me. Hadn't heard from him in 30 years. We do that segment talking
01:05:03
about cutting funding. He went to a he went to law school and decided he wanted to devote his life to um hunting down
01:05:12
and prosecuting war criminals for the UN or some agency out of Switzerland. So he's spent the last 20 years building
01:05:18
cases against war criminals to try and create disincentive for people to think twice when they go out and start
01:05:26
committing war crimes. And he got a notice that because of government cutting and in Doge that he's out of a
01:05:32
job. And I'm like to have a guy that talented who could have been making 2 million bucks a year protecting white
01:05:37
collar crime for Scat and Aarbs decide that no >> defending Elon Musk and his lawsuit.
01:05:41
>> Yeah. He said no. I want to create disincentive such that leaders think
01:05:45
twice before they start killing civilians. And he's I can't think this kid was so smart and so talented.
01:05:53
>> We need to restore much of this. Not all of it, but much of it. >> And what do we do when we get the gift
01:05:57
of these people's humanity where they decide to apply their expertise against
01:06:02
saving people we will never meet, disincentivizing acts of war, acts of horror, and then we cut the funding.
01:06:10
>> Yep. Yep. All right. Well, that's great. I think that's a great one. Anyway, we
01:06:14
want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:06:17
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen
01:06:23
Scott universe, this week on On with Cara Swisser, I spoke to Ested Hearnden, host of the new Bucks podcast, America
01:06:29
Act, who's a former New York Times, a wonderful New York Times reporter. We talked about the uh uh about the show,
01:06:35
what politics will be like after Trump and the playbook Democrats will be using in the upcoming midterms and beyond.
01:06:40
Let's listen to a quick clip. >> Maybe it's become a little more progressive, but it's certainly become
01:06:44
more um activist. It's certainly become more um uh less passive for I think the
01:06:50
traditional Democratic playbook. And so I think those shifts are some of what we're seeing in Maine and I think what
01:06:56
we're seeing across the country. >> Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:06:58
listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll
01:07:01
be back on Friday.