00:00:00
What did they want from Professor Galloway? >> To do one or more of those Andy Rooney
00:00:04
segments. >> So, you're Andy Rooney. You know what really bothers me about Sodapop is?
00:00:14
We've got a lot to get to. So, let's dig in. Hunter Biden, he's into his act,
00:00:19
too, and I'm loving it. He's has fame on X, former president son now has 700,000
00:00:24
followers on the platform after he reemerged last month saying, "I'm Hunter
00:00:27
Biden. You never actually heard from me. Since then, he's taken this incredibly
00:00:32
candid approach. He's quite cany at social media, joking about his previous controversies, including drug use. In
00:00:37
one post, he addressed the bag of cocaine found at the White House in 2023, saying it definitely wasn't his
00:00:42
because he would never forget in his forgotten his drugs. In another, he replied to an accusation that he was
00:00:47
part of an elite oligarch class with a selfie of himself at a Super Eight motel off I95. Um, it's really interesting
00:00:54
because he's actually engaging with MAGA people a lot and they're kind of liking
00:00:58
it. They're kind of liking him. Really interesting. I know it's kind of silly
00:01:01
and sort of me, but I gotta say I I find it very interesting how he's doing it.
00:01:07
It's authenticity, I guess. Any thoughts? >> I think people Yeah, he's like he's
00:01:12
funny, >> self-deprecating. >> Yeah. And I think people love that kind
00:01:16
of vulnerability and honesty. And also, I think I'm on this anti-optimization
00:01:23
kick or >> Yeah. I think that >> I think the optimization trend has just
00:01:28
gotten way too [ __ ] far. >> It has. >> And you see that if you're truly about
00:01:33
optimizing, you go to 80%. 80% of good sleep, good health, good nutrition, and then you indulge the other 20%. You
00:01:40
don't want your metrics to consume the joy in your life. And I also I think people are just sort of ready for a
00:01:45
funny guy who smokes crack. I >> Well, he doesn't anymore, so that's
00:01:50
>> Anyways, from what I've heard, it has it's pretty addictive. But anyways, I I
00:01:54
hope for him that he's no longer smoking crack. >> Yeah. >> But I think Hunter, he's he's just a
00:01:59
unique personality. He's got he's got that kind of I don't know, for lack of a
00:02:02
better term, that Twitter wiz. >> Um but the thing that kicked it off, and
00:02:06
I hate to admit this, was his interview with Candace Owens. >> Yeah, that was interesting.
00:02:10
>> That was part of his comeback. >> Strange. Yeah. >> And I I I I refused to watch it because
00:02:15
my understanding is he he kind of indulged your conspiracy theories on Israel, Charlie Kirk, and Trump's
00:02:21
assassination attempts. or he didn't push back. >> But the Google the Google search on
00:02:26
Hunter Biden is is skyrocketed. He is, >> you know, he's an interesting guy. And
00:02:31
there's, get this, there's now a 26% chance on Khi that he runs for president
00:02:37
in 2028. >> No, he's not president in the fact that he's defending the Bidens. They've been
00:02:42
so clottish about defending themselves. I don't think Joe Biden's so great. Or
00:02:45
Joe certainly isn't. But he's sort of like, "Yeah, we're broken people. So
00:02:49
what?" and like the stuff the [ __ ] you're throwing around about me isn't
00:02:53
true, but some of it is. So, I think that's why it works is that he's defending his family in a way that feels
00:02:59
>> That's a great point. People want people want to like a Biden right now.
00:03:03
>> Well, but they I don't The Bidens have done a great job, you know. >> That's my point. They're looking for
00:03:08
someone to like inact. I don't I I thought I thought Okay, Dr. Biden. Uh, I don't I think I don't think she's she's
00:03:17
she hasn't served the Biden family well in my view. >> Yeah, they seem, you know, she's mad and
00:03:22
righteous. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't Anyways, anyway, I'm really enjoying Hunter. I'm really
00:03:26
enjoying what you're doing. Um, and uh and it's see where it goes. I'll be
00:03:31
interested because you can't just live on Twitter and social media alone. As
00:03:35
Spencer Pratt just found out, there was a lot more heat around him than there were votes. And so, he's just been
00:03:40
surpassed in Los Angeles. And and of course the right is saying the including President Trump that the election was
00:03:46
stolen. It wasn't. There was a very big movement around um it's Nithia Ramen uh
00:03:52
who is a very well-qualified person. Um uh and she's p pulled ahead of him in
00:03:58
the uh in the in the LA mayoral primary. Um and of course the right is calling it
00:04:04
rigged, but it's not. That's how they do votes in California slowly because a lot
00:04:07
of mail in. So that that was a lot. It was sort of snakes. He was like snakes on a plane of politicians. That's my
00:04:13
feeling. Although we did okay. He got a lot of votes still. >> I I actually think the California
00:04:17
elections are somewhat heartening, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Sar was money.
00:04:22
>> Hilton was attention. The Sarah appears to be experiencing competence and he
00:04:25
appears to be doing well. And the mayoral race. I mean, at some point we're going to talk about candidate
00:04:31
quality because it struck me as incompetence versus a conspiracy theorist. But I like the fact that he
00:04:36
came in third. It's actually bad for Bass. It would have been better in a traditional
00:04:40
>> div because this other woman's impressive in many ways. She's a
00:04:43
democratic socialist I think. But she's got, you know, she's an MIT person. She
00:04:48
worked on homelessness. She worked in India. She wor she's a really interesting character. Well, I don't
00:04:52
know enough about her, but I certainly am going to learn. Uh, she's got a race
00:04:56
on her hands here now. >> She is interesting, but more than that, it's D versus D now versus D versus R.
00:05:02
And D versus R in LA, it's vastly skewed towards D. especially when the D is p
00:05:09
their primary qualification to run for mayor is that their house burned down. So, you know, California politics have
00:05:16
been kind of it's blurred the line between entertainment and public service, but you know, at least Netflix
00:05:23
cancels shows when they're underperforming. They don't seem to do that in California. And I think a lot of
00:05:28
this [ __ ] has started with not only Trump, but the fact that it appears that the primary qualification for a cabinet
00:05:35
post now is that you're a t, you know, a news host or a celebrity. >> Well, but it didn't work, right? You
00:05:42
know, it didn't work. His he had a lot more heat on social media than real actual voters. You know, it's
00:05:49
interesting because we talked about this last week, but you know, we said that Daniel Lur is doing a great job in San
00:05:53
Francisco, but he's also online. And I said, "It's not like he's compelling
00:05:57
like Spencer Pratt who's a douche nozzle." And I got a call from and all I
00:06:02
pick up the phone. I wasn't looking who called and he goes, "Not compelling."
00:06:05
And it was Daniel. And I said, "Yes, that is how you that is why you're doing
00:06:09
so." >> Meant that in the best way. >> Yeah. I said that. I said, "No, you're
00:06:12
not compelling at all." And and he is a douchezle and you are not a douche.
00:06:15
Anyway, just it just shows you that social media may not be what we think it is. Right. Exactly. um in in terms of
00:06:22
politics. Voters want what voters want and I really feel good about voters right now. I think they know what they
00:06:27
want. Anyway, um let's move on to the big story. Again, FCC chairman Brendan
00:06:32
Carr, the [ __ ] has inserted himself into the 60 Minutes drama. I don't know
00:06:36
why cuz he's supposed to be deciding on this. Carr posted on an ex about fired
00:06:40
correspondent Scott P after P spoke to the New York Times. responding to a comment about how P was surprised he got
00:06:46
fired. Carr the [ __ ] wrote, "One of the reasons why trust in media is low. So
00:06:51
many legacy journalists are completely out of touch. You do not get away with that behavior in any run-of-the-mill
00:06:56
job." Well, yes, Brendan, you [ __ ] And he was asking a basic question of why
00:07:00
were people who were had no reason to be fired got fired anyway. He should not be
00:07:04
weighing in. Neither should any of those people, though. P says CBS manager the ones out of touch. Let's listen to a
00:07:10
clip clip from an extraordinary interview he did with a friend of mine, Lulu Garcia Navaro at the New York
00:07:16
Times. It was full of stuff. So, let's listen to it. >> Of course, we have to reach out to a
00:07:21
younger and younger audience. Um, but their argument about joining the internet age is just disingenuous.
00:07:28
Um, it's almost as if Barry Weiss and Nick Bilton were sealed in a time capsule in 1990
00:07:36
and it just cracked open. They've just discovered the internet and they're
00:07:40
running around telling everybody how important it is at CBS News. Yeah. Uh join the fight.
00:07:48
>> Anyway, I love his voice. It was such a good burn. We've been saying that it's
00:07:52
not the everyone knows this. It's not new fresh things. Um so I want to talk
00:07:57
about this in a different way. I mean, I thought the interview was extraordinary
00:08:00
and extremely damaging. Um that said, I don't know if something's going to
00:08:03
happen about it. Um but I we had a great talk last night. Scott called me and there's a business aspect to this I
00:08:10
really want to talk about. Obviously, the interview was really a lot and including this idea that he put his
00:08:16
hands on Nick, Nick Builton, who's who was put in place to run 60 Minutes. A
00:08:20
lot of controversy around him. Um, which didn't turn out to be true, but this one
00:08:25
executive Tom and I don't know how to I can't pronounce his last thing. Anyway,
00:08:29
he was saying that he he tried to manhandle Nick Bilton, which wasn't true, and then said, "Oh, okay. You
00:08:34
didn't like the lack of reporting on the behalf of CBS management is really quite
00:08:39
striking." Um, and Scott called them out. Scott P, whose voice is fant Maleficulous. Um, Maleifulous, whatever.
00:08:46
But you had this really great take about business, and I'd love you to reel it
00:08:50
out a little bit because I thought it was different than the typical those [ __ ] kind of thing, which in fact,
00:08:56
they are [ __ ] But go ahead. Yeah, I think if you just look at the industrial logic or lack thereof, you get to what's
00:09:01
going on here, and that is this is a a a rare instance of broadcast media performing well. And so from an
00:09:11
industrial logic standpoint, you just wouldn't [ __ ] with it. And we use the
00:09:15
analogy performing open heart surgery on your best performing player. >> I thought that was so smart.
00:09:19
>> Makes no sense, right? So why does this make sense? Because regardless of
00:09:23
whether you like the Ellison's or not, David Ellison is a smart guy. His father
00:09:28
is a brilliant business person. He just is. And they understand, they may not understand media or journalism, but they
00:09:35
understand culture incentives and they vastly understand shareholder value. >> I would say Larry does, but go ahead.
00:09:40
>> Fair enough. Um although I I I would argue his son at least seems competent.
00:09:44
>> He's competent. He's competent. Not around media, but he's good at making
00:09:47
maverick top gun. But go ahead. So the question is why would they why would they [ __ ] with something that's working?
00:09:54
Yeah. I mean that's the question. So it becomes all right. First off, and this
00:09:58
is where I go too. >> While journalists and media are obsessed with themselves and think this is like
00:10:05
an attack on democracy and journalism. I understand that the chill on journalism
00:10:09
and that journalism is a key component of democracy. I'm of the camp that quite
00:10:13
frankly if the Washington Post and 60 Minutes go away, journalism is going to be just fine. That's not to say we
00:10:18
shouldn't be concerned. That's not to say this isn't another example of Trump
00:10:22
trying to put a chill on journalism. I get it. When you try and encourage taking vaccines off the market, I think
00:10:28
that is a real existential threat to the health and wellbeing of Americans. I think if 60 Minutes were to go away,
00:10:34
those people are going to find amazing jobs and create reasonable faximiles of of incredible journalism as they've
00:10:39
continued to produce at 60 minutes. >> May I just push back a tiny bit? This
00:10:42
that's not true. they are an important of the many fixtures and it's working. I
00:10:47
do think it's more than that. And what Scott P was asking, why are you firing
00:10:50
competent people who who are doing a great job and I do think they're important. I think it's important to
00:10:56
have a top a top of the food chain and a lower part too. And it's sort of so I
00:11:01
don't I do think [ __ ] with the Washington Post is very damaging because of the some of the stuff they do and and
00:11:08
[ __ ] with 60 Minutes same thing. So go ahead. And and I believe that those journalists and their their outstanding
00:11:15
work and their willingness to take truth to power will find a ton of different vessels if the Washington Post and 60 60
00:11:22
Minutes as a construct go away. >> I don't think it's a threat to journalism.
00:11:26
>> Okay. >> As evidenced by what you're doing and hundreds of other interesting new
00:11:29
companies are doing. >> Having said that, what's interesting here is just looking at it through a
00:11:34
business lens. >> Yes, please do. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to go up to Derek Jeter and say, "We
00:11:41
don't like you. We want to bench you or to it's like benching Lionel Messi in
00:11:46
the World Cup." It just doesn't make any industrial logic. And so, if you go up
00:11:50
the food chain, it's one of two things here. Either the Ellison's are so
00:11:56
passionate about having a viewpoint that put puts forward a more conservative viewpoint that they're willing to take
00:12:03
these risks and potentially kill Messi right before the World Cup or whatever. I don't and I don't think
00:12:11
that's it. I think that the math is pretty straightforward here. I think the
00:12:14
Ellison's the owners of Warner Media, the new owners have decided there's more
00:12:20
economic upside if they do Trump's bidding and potentially lose value at 60 Minutes. It's not economically an
00:12:27
important business to CBS. It might have a halo effect on the whole thing. >> But even CBS, the network itself, I
00:12:34
think the Ellison have done the math and decided that we would rather there is more and this is a problem with an
00:12:39
autocracy and this is a bigger indictment in our society. I think the Ellison have done the math and say we
00:12:44
would rather risk killing a healthy player that's a small business and curring favor with a guy who can give us
00:12:52
Tik Tok on a platter at 80% off. >> They already he already did that >> and I think he'll continue to do it as
00:12:58
long as we curry favor with it. And this is the problem. This isn't about the
00:13:03
death of journalism. This is about an autocracy where oligarchs are made if you support the current administration.
00:13:10
And the Ellison have done the math. Yeah, we'd like to hold on to 60 minutes, but what's more important,
00:13:16
>> we don't care. I think don't care is more important. >> Yeah. A nice to have. We don't really
00:13:21
care because the the the numbers here are so small where the numbers turn into tens of billions of dollars is if the
00:13:28
president is on our side because he perceives us as being on his side. And if we have to throw 60 minutes on the
00:13:35
funeral p to show loyalty, so be it. >> Yeah. It's really interesting when you
00:13:39
said that. I first I was like, "Oh, Scott, it's important." You know, and
00:13:41
then I thought, you know, actually when Tim Cook brought that golden statue, why'd he do it? Like cuz the the
00:13:47
reputational hit was bad. And then he appeared at the Melania thing, right? It's such a reputational hit. And I was
00:13:52
like, "Oh, he invested a hundred million here and got like Elon giving money to
00:13:57
the packs invested 50 million here, he got 500 million billion here or five billion here." And I was like, "Oh, it's
00:14:06
a trade." and it they don't mind taking the reputational hit. Same thing with
00:14:10
Bezos. Why would he go yammer on so idiotically, right? Cuz he wants something, right? I mean, that whole
00:14:17
he's gotten more mature. Like, come on. Like, stop it. Like, you just saw that
00:14:21
Kristen Welker interview looks like a giant baby. A giant baby Hueie. And I was like, you're right. He gets they
00:14:27
they get more money out the other side. The issue is they're they don't mind
00:14:32
throwing out the really beautiful thing, right? like sometimes when you junk something that's just fine but they
00:14:38
that's what it is and so it feels much more it is political it is political because I do think they're much more
00:14:44
pro-Israel etc etc um but and much more like anti-woke which sort of feeds into their selections of editorial selections
00:14:53
but it is about like they'll get more out of it now what two things I'd love
00:14:57
you to comment on look Trump's at the very end of this is we're at the end of
00:15:01
the you know this the king is fall is is falling down like on a daily basis. He looks quite sick. Um let's let's not
00:15:09
pretend he doesn't look like he had a stroke or something. Something happened
00:15:13
uh to him. And so it's at the tail end. You see the Republicans pushing back.
00:15:17
You see the polling which is really significant even among female conservatives, male conservatives,
00:15:23
farmers, like all his thing breaking down. Why would you double down on him right now? cuz it seems like you'll get
00:15:29
the reputational hit cuz afterwards when the Democrats come in, they're not going
00:15:33
to forget. And by the way, probably the attorney generals will file a suit while
00:15:37
we're taping this um against to slow down the merger and it will slow down the merger. So why would you do it now?
00:15:44
Like if you're as smart as Larry Nelson is, and trust us when we tell you he's
00:15:48
very smart. Um why would you do it? It seems like the dumb bet right now. >> Yeah, I don't think it is. Cara, keep in
00:15:55
mind that the deal has >> the deal hasn't closed yet, >> right? It has to close, right?
00:16:01
>> The deal hasn't closed. If if Brendan Carr gets a call from Trump and say,
00:16:05
"I'm having second thoughts about media consolidation, a deal hasn't closed." And it Trump has
00:16:12
been has shown a willingness to uh violate all norms, not afraid of court battles. Yeah. maybe gets overturned in
00:16:20
court in a year or two years at which point CBS continues to hemorrhage viewership. Trump can absolutely kill
00:16:25
this deal. Trump can call Ellison and basically say, "I want you to cancel Big
00:16:30
Bang Theory and he would do it right now." I and I'm trying to come up with a
00:16:33
CBS show like the new Matlock, whatever it is. Yeah. >> And I think I think I think Larry calls
00:16:38
his son and goes, "Kill this show." >> Because if this deal doesn't go through
00:16:43
and it doesn't close, I mean, so one, he has very strong short-term incentive to
00:16:49
be supportive of Trump. And two, they still have two and a half, you know, you still have two and a half years left and
00:16:56
nothing proves I mean, think about all the guys that showed up that we mocked, all the tech executives from Sachin
00:17:02
Nadella to Alman. >> Did tariffs affect any of them? >> No. And they got contracts with
00:17:09
government. They got this, they got that. They got everything they wanted. >> And Jensen Hong, I'm going to take you
00:17:14
to China and try and get you to sell chips. And now the Chinese are saying, "Fuck you. We're not going to buy your
00:17:19
chips." It's there has never been a return. Not capbacks, not AI, not plant
00:17:25
property equipment, like investing in Trump right now. That is what a good autocrat does. He says,
00:17:30
>> okay, >> but >> what happens come November when the Dem if the Democrats win the way they think,
00:17:35
if they even win half of what they're going to win, there's there's going to
00:17:38
be hell to pay. Or maybe they don't think the problem. >> Maybe they don't think that.
00:17:41
>> Here's the problem. Graham Platner Graham Platner has had a series of
00:17:46
really disturbing accusations against him by by various women and the talking. Okay. The problem
00:17:55
is we apply a purity test to ourselves and to our candidates that the Republicans
00:18:01
don't apply don't apply and as a result they feel safer. They're like we threat
00:18:07
lock her up. Have you heard we we don't have chance of lock him up at Democratic. We we're we're better than
00:18:15
that. And I I get it. I like that. But the reality is the the incentives are the following right now.
00:18:22
>> Get on get in with Trump. Get your money. The Democrats are [ __ ] [ __ ]
00:18:28
>> And that was the wrong word to use. >> That's all right. I like that.
00:18:32
>> The word the Democrats, they'll feel bad for us and they'll try and understand us
00:18:36
and they'll haul us in front of Congress. Fine, but the upside here is so much greater than the downside. We're
00:18:43
dealing with an autocrat. >> You're right. It's a risk assessment. I
00:18:45
do make a little prediction here. We should probably move on in the thing, but I think the Democrats are much more
00:18:52
less a [ __ ] than you think. I think so. I have talked to a lot of them and they're like,
00:18:56
>> "Well, let me ask you this. Do you think Do you think they should replace Blatner
00:18:59
right now >> so we have our our our high ground?" >> No. No. No. You know, I don't. And I
00:19:06
have an argument with my wife about it. No, I don't. I don't. I think the voters
00:19:10
of Maine should decide. That's my feeling. I feel I always feel like the voters should decide. And if they make
00:19:15
>> bad decisions, they have to live with it, right? If they had picked Pratt,
00:19:19
they have to [ __ ] live live with it in Los Angeles. And I know the rest everyone who didn't vote for them have
00:19:24
to live with it. But I am I'm a firm believer in voters. I just am always. I
00:19:28
always feel like they always get it ultimately. And and I think pundits and everyone else doesn't often get it.
00:19:34
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they're very cany. Um, but I just feel like to me you're betting on someone who's about
00:19:43
to collapse. And >> we've been saying that we've been saying that for a while.
00:19:47
>> Have Look at him. Look at him. It's >> You think he looks that Do you really
00:19:51
think he looks that bad? >> I I'm just Look, I'm not talking about
00:19:53
him. Yes, I think he looks that bad. But that's not what I was talking about. I'm
00:19:56
not talking about death. I'm not like whatever. He's He's old. He's going to
00:19:59
die within 10 years. So, whatever. It's going to somewhere in there. Somewhere
00:20:03
in there. And um but the p the numbers I'm looking at the polls and I a year
00:20:10
ago I said I think his polling is going to collapse and it has collapsed. And so
00:20:14
that's what I'm looking at is voters. Voters don't like this [ __ ] And I think
00:20:18
they are sticking their chin out so far with all their nonsense. Why would you fire competent people? what it looks and
00:20:25
also it creates listen CB other CBS's other executives are furious because it's ruining the CBS brand which is a
00:20:33
very successful it's done okay in the network with all their old people shows
00:20:38
they're doing okay and so I think you're starting to see leaks from you know
00:20:43
there was one from this woman who was running um CBS entertainment you're sort
00:20:47
of started seeing it from other news you're just starting to see it and if she could this could mess up the deal
00:20:54
itself because of the heat on this on the other side, right? It'll it'll
00:20:58
embolden more people from 60 Minutes to speak out. It'll embolden more stories.
00:21:02
And let me tell you folks, there's more shoes about to drop. I hear about everything. And so, it's going to be a
00:21:08
continuing leak leak leak. And if you remember the Chris Lick thing, and I just think David Zazos is just quicker
00:21:13
to fold, right? Or but it took Jeff Bezos two years to fold on Will Lewis, but eventually it's it it messes up the
00:21:21
brand. and they happen to have other things. Now, Jeff just has the Washington Post so he could hold out for
00:21:26
2 years, but Zazoff was starting to feel the pain elsewhere. And so, that to me is the problem. So, and then David looks
00:21:34
dumb and David looking dumb to daddy is not a good thing for him. You know what I mean? Like, and so that's why I think
00:21:41
there's a lot more at play here. And I and I do think the Democrats will will
00:21:46
will extract something from them in a way. I don't think they're as as weak as
00:21:52
you think they are. And from hearing from them, bygones is not in their vocabulary right now. It is we will now
00:21:58
be coming around and remembering what you did. So maybe they won't do it, but
00:22:03
I that's the tone I get from them. So we'll see. Anyway, I really enjoyed your
00:22:07
your idea of what they're doing and you're absolutely right. The business
00:22:09
way to look at this. >> Just to talk more about 60. So four of the seven I think four of the
00:22:16
seven anchors have left >> and the key executives the editors the key editors who you don't know their
00:22:22
names but critical >> that's really the heart and lungs but the 75 what you call staff editors
00:22:31
junior producers statistitians did it none of them have left it all comes down to this I I I think it's the following
00:22:38
just as we thought >> they can't leave let's be clear they have jobs there's not It's not a big
00:22:42
market. So, >> right. And they have mortgages and and not only that, I know I know exactly
00:22:47
what the Ellison's did here. They called them and said they called Leslie Stall
00:22:50
and said, "Leslie, you're an icon. Things are tumultuous. We promise we
00:22:54
promise we'll let you do whatever you want. And by the way, if you just stick
00:22:57
around another 12 months until things settle down, there's another $5 million
00:23:00
bonus for you." That's what I would have done. And I'm sure that call took place.
00:23:03
And then they called the 12 critical people of the rank and file and said, "Look, tell everyone that when there's
00:23:09
this kind of tumult and the top of the pyramid gets chopped off, there's a tremendous sucking sound upward." And
00:23:15
they would be stupid not to hang around to see what additional opportunities emerge.
00:23:19
>> And people will always think about themselves before they think about the
00:23:22
brave new world of the attack on journalism. They have mortgages to pay. They have college funds
00:23:26
>> I agree >> to fund. And this is what will happen. Just as we thought all the noise in
00:23:31
social media was going to dictate the mayoral race, all the noise around 60 is going to come down to the following. If
00:23:37
the first six or dozen episodes in the fall are good, 60 will be fine. And if they're not, that thing will collapse
00:23:44
under the weight of all this controversy. So, it's it's going to be it's going to be about it's going to be
00:23:50
about the product. Full stop. If you can make the product because you do need those correspondents,
00:23:55
>> maybe they can't. >> I know the people they're calling cuz
00:23:58
I'm hearing from everyone they're calling and none of them want to go there. They don't want to they're
00:24:02
calling some interesting people who are good but all of them are like I'm not
00:24:06
selling my [ __ ] reputation. >> How how do they get guests and also I never miss an opportunity to to make
00:24:12
myself feel important. I was approached about a role at 60 Minutes >> and what did I say? I'd break your arm.
00:24:18
Correct. >> Well, and I said no [ __ ] way. I I don't want to be that's like the last
00:24:22
thing I mean and quite frankly why the [ __ ] is Leslie Stall staying. >> Well, can I give a word on that and then
00:24:28
we'll move on. I know Leslie really well. She used to come to all my conferences. She's really terrific. I've
00:24:33
talked she was trying an internet thing off a couple years ago and I helped her with it. She's not texting me back.
00:24:39
Let's just say Leslie, I've helped you a lot. I really feel irritated by the fact
00:24:43
that you won't even text me back. But that's another issue. Um, I think I
00:24:46
predicted she would do this and everyone said I was wrong. But listen, this is the end of her career. She wants that
00:24:53
retrospective of her career next year or the year after. She wants the party. She
00:24:58
does have a loyalty to the place. She's been there so long and so she feels by
00:25:02
staying, she's protecting it like at least someone's here to hold it back and
00:25:07
watch them. My is and I think that's genuine. I do. I think it's genuine with
00:25:11
her. She's she's she like you cut her open she blades 60 minutes right so I
00:25:16
think that's in her thing and she wants that like if she left now there'd be no
00:25:19
retrospective there'd be no end of her career and I think she wants that from
00:25:24
that's from a for a selfish point of view from the other point of view she thinks she can save it she can at least
00:25:29
protect it for the time being until she'll wait them out my problem is they're going to go just around her
00:25:34
they're just going to go around her and I don't think she realizes that how much
00:25:38
they're as as cany and smart and tough as she is she doesn't have as much
00:25:42
leverage by staying and that is I think she made a mistake but I thought she would stay. So that's my take on it. So
00:25:51
I don't know cuz I haven't talked to her. >> Okay. So under in the latest episode of
00:25:55
>> I'm glad you didn't go. Thank you. I would have not been happy about that.
00:25:58
>> Under the oposes of the latest episode of Don't These People Have Friends?
00:26:03
Leslie Stall is an icon. Leslie Stall is 84. Between 1 and 2% of 84 year olds work full-time. By the time you're 87,
00:26:11
it's less than 1%. You know, Leslie Stall may live another 20 years. She's going to be working
00:26:17
full-time for a matter of, you know, years, if not months. I mean, that's just, and I know that sounds agist. I am
00:26:24
an agist, and so is biology. >> She shouldn't be buying green bananas at
00:26:29
this point. >> Yeah. >> Now, >> I I don't think it's a good choice. As a
00:26:33
friend, a friend should say to her, Leslie, you put out the following memo. I have loved and appreciated and feel
00:26:44
blessed to have been a part of this organization. I am proud and did my best regarding my
00:26:52
work here. It is time for me to leave. >> Yeah, I would agree. and everyone else
00:26:56
would have filled in the blanks. In every [ __ ] room she would have walked into for the rest of her life, she would
00:27:01
have got a standing ovation. Instead, now under some narcissistic notion that she's going to be able to control what
00:27:07
happens in every production meeting. Go my god, how naive are you? She had a chance to put the world's greatest dot
00:27:15
on top of an exclamation part point at the end of a career and she's missed it.
00:27:20
This was the perfect >> perfect exit to a storyried career. I know. I'm not I'm not angry. I'm not
00:27:28
[ __ ] posting her for staying. I'm [ __ ] posting her for not taking an unbelievable opportunity. I agree. And
00:27:36
goodbye. >> To put a Tiffany ribbon >> to put a Tiffany ribbon on the
00:27:41
aquamarine blue box. That was her Tiffany career. >> What a missed opportunity.
00:27:46
>> Goodbye, sir. Like that kind of thing. >> Good day. Good day. >> Good day, sir.
00:27:51
>> Good day, sir. Can I Can I ask you I want you to say what they wanted you to
00:27:55
do in 60 Minutes, which would cracks me the [ __ ] up. Cuz then it's not to do the
00:27:59
like big interviews with Trump or do the investigative pieces where you dress up
00:28:02
in a beer just for people to know. What did they want from Professor Galloway? >> Uh to do one or more of those Andy
00:28:09
Rooney segments. >> Yeah. So, you're Andy Rooney. And by the way, >> what really bothers me about is
00:28:16
>> I I I grew up watching 60 Minutes with my mother. >> Yeah. >> Had someone called me 12 or 24 months
00:28:23
ago and offered me that role. >> Yeah. >> I would have just I would have said I'll
00:28:26
pay you. What do you want? What do you want? What do you want me to do? >> I would have that would have been
00:28:32
literally other than hosting a podcast with you, that would have been my crowning achievement professionally.
00:28:36
>> And now I'm not I'm gonna I'm not going to add to this chorus
00:28:40
>> watching that of of of of unqualified people. This cosplaying journal. I'm
00:28:47
like, the last [ __ ] thing I want to do now >> is wake up to social media after they
00:28:53
after they hear that I'm joining I'm having anything to do with this [ __ ]
00:28:58
show right now. >> Yeah. And you were scared of me, right? Were you scared of me?
00:29:01
>> Uh, not really. >> Is I just would have yelled at you like, "Are you
00:29:06
>> No, no, no. I >> You know what? Can I just say you're better than that? That's how I feel.
00:29:11
Yeah. >> And and quite frankly, I I think I like the people there more than you do. I I I
00:29:16
don't have a you know, I I actually >> I like some of them. >> Yeah. I I This is the last [ __ ] thing
00:29:22
I want to be associated with right now. I >> Yeah. >> Anyways, um anyway, you're stuck with
00:29:27
me, Cara. You're >> I know. I love it. I love it. You can do 60 minutes things here and you can do
00:29:31
them about penises. So, you can do it there. I'm just saying. Anyway, we're
00:29:35
going to move on. Really interesting story, but I appreciate your business thing. I was so struck by it last night
00:29:39
when you called me. Anyway, we're going to go on a quick break. When we come
00:29:42
back, the SpaceX IPO approaches. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. It's never too late to start
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Coher. To learn more, visit cohhere.com/vox. Scott, we're back. I thought you did a
00:32:22
great job sort of analyzing the the SpaceX IPO. It really helped me and a lot of people were telling me that. But
00:32:28
the company is expected to begin trading on the NASDAQ this Friday in what could
00:32:31
be the largest IPO in history. A lot of moving parts. A couple things we've learned in the last few days. SpaceX has
00:32:36
set its share price at $135, giving the company a valuation of roughly 1.77 trillion. You said it would be under two
00:32:44
trillion. It won't be fasttracked onto the S&P 500. This is a new development
00:32:48
after the index decided not to change its rules for these mega cap IPOs. Thank you. They probably got a lot of push
00:32:54
back from people. And there's more. SpaceX also made a major deal with Google selling off its seed core. Google
00:33:00
will pay SpaceX $920 million a month over the next three years for computing power. That includes access to at least
00:33:06
110,000 Nvidia chips. Elon was smart to grab those. This is similar to a deal that SpaceX recently made with
00:33:12
Anthropic. So, it's becoming an infrastructure provider. Essentially, Google, which is already an investor in
00:33:16
SpaceX, everybody is, by the way, is calling this a short-term timely agreement to ensure they can keep up
00:33:21
with surging AI demand. They will go get their own stuff later and they're not
00:33:24
going to rent it. Um, talk about what's happening now and what you see happening
00:33:29
in the NE because it's ne the next week and and the deal and we're going to talk
00:33:33
a lot about the IPO on Friday obviously, but right now going into it, how are you
00:33:38
looking at it? It's just so interesting and and my my judgment is clouded because I've been so wrong about Elon
00:33:44
Musk's adventures in in in the market and the I haven't fully appreciated what
00:33:49
a meme stock he is and everything he touches. So look, Alphabet agreed to pay SpaceX almost a billion dollars a month
00:33:57
for compute capacity from Xi from XAI data centers. What's interesting is that
00:34:02
they overbuilt and it ends up that's fine because they can just rent the capacity out to someone else at probably
00:34:07
a higher price than they had originally anticipated. Look, SpaceX's current multiple, it's going out at 94 times
00:34:13
revenues. The deal would value um uh a deal that would total at least, you know, 1 trillion in additional market
00:34:22
cap from if you just valued this what it should should trade out trade up versus
00:34:26
its competitors. even being generous. What does it matter for Alphabet? It owns this it owns a 6% stake in SpaceX
00:34:34
which it purchased in 2015. So, and they did this when the company was valued at just $12 billion. So, 6% of a
00:34:42
1 trillion in market cap is about 60 billion or more than 5x. >> Remember remember when Yahoo had the
00:34:47
Google stake that was one of the big things they got out of it anyway. They had a big stake in Google
00:34:52
>> by them agreeing to buy purchase this compute. when you look at the multiple
00:34:57
for every dollar they spend on compute they're technically getting five back in
00:35:00
the increase in the value of their stake in SpaceX >> right yeah >> so we talk about these circular deals
00:35:05
but this one looks like a no-brainer for Google >> right >> so I think SpaceX's multiple will
00:35:12
deflate dramatically as revenues grow but the point stands you know Alphabet has a vested interest in SpaceX's
00:35:19
revenues going up and then and then look I I I think in the last just 7 days maybe 14 there has been a dramatic vibe
00:35:30
shift and that is this study that came out at MIT that said 95% of CFOs are stating
00:35:36
that they're not getting the return they had initially anticipated >> AI in AI
00:35:43
>> I was on um a webinar hosted by section talking about AI and the comments I
00:35:50
would describe is whenever people come in and talk about the brave new world of AI it's like a giant [ __ ] eye roll.
00:35:56
People are really in the business world are starting to sour on the brave new world of AI. And this will this won't be
00:36:05
the same litmus test directly as as anthropic or open AI. And I'm curious if
00:36:11
you sense this, but I sense a little bit of like, you know what, this is beginning to feel like [ __ ] The job
00:36:20
apocalypse everyone's been predicting is not here. the the the you know notion that this is
00:36:26
going to change absolutely everything. The idea that we're going to have oneperson companies that could be
00:36:32
billion dollar unicorns, >> right? Remember that one? >> Uh you know the I had the CEO of uh of
00:36:39
Lilion. He said AI's ability to accelerate drug discovery is vastly overhyped. I just wonder if people are
00:36:47
beginning to say okay this is beginning to feel a little 99. And it feels like there's been a tangible vibe shift
00:36:53
around AI in the last few weeks. Do you sense the same thing? >> How does how does it affect the SpaceX I
00:36:58
IPO? Because there's star there's other businesses in here. Is it just cuz this
00:37:01
is an AI IPO or >> Well, the AI that's got attached to it as I refer to affectionately as a money
00:37:07
furnace is I mean there's no doubt he's he's saddled he's turned a great space
00:37:14
business into a company hemorrhaging money because he's going to try and fund
00:37:19
and play catchup in AI. What's interesting is he's it looks like he's
00:37:22
got a a rip cord here in the form that he's now renting out his infrastructure,
00:37:27
but nothing nothing feels or says froth in a market like a 94 times revenue valuation,
00:37:35
>> right? But is that Elon or AI? That's the qu is it just the Elonness of it?
00:37:40
>> I think the answer is yes. I think Elon I think Elon plus AI plus rockets.
00:37:45
>> Yeah. >> Um in the rocket business or the Starlink business is a great business,
00:37:49
>> right? But my god, 94 times revenues. >> So what happens? Give me like the day
00:37:54
of, the week after, and the 6 months after. Everyone is predicting trough after, like pretty quickly after,
00:38:01
relatively quickly after, not immediately. >> You know, I've gotten this so wrong,
00:38:05
Cara, but I people have called me and asked me, they should participate in the IPS. They've got allocation. I said I
00:38:10
wouldn't get near SpaceX, and if you do, I would sell on the first trade. I think
00:38:15
SpaceX is about to hit a 10-year high on the minute it goes public, meaning it'll
00:38:19
be all downhill from there. I just don't see how it just even with even with even
00:38:23
with Elon and AI and rockets, I don't see how it just >> he's going to put robots everywhere and
00:38:27
cars, you know, all the promises are still that and they're tough ones. They're tough promises. He's got to keep
00:38:32
>> 100%. The one I'm most or least sanguin about or least pessimistic on is
00:38:37
anthropic because the momentum is so dramatic there. >> So, you'd buy into that?
00:38:41
>> Uh, I would buy into the IPO. I'm not sure it'd be a long-term hold based on
00:38:44
the valuations going out on it. >> I think that's I think if if one of them
00:38:49
struggles and could be a broken IPO, I think it could be open AI. I think the momentum
00:38:54
>> conglomerate, so it's harder to tease apart investors. >> I mean, one of the reasons you might be
00:39:00
seeing a decline in the crypto market right now is all of those people are selling to buy into the SpaceX IPO. I
00:39:06
mean, you're also probably going to see a decline in the larger market for tech
00:39:10
stocks because I think so much capital is going to be sucked up by these guys. But you
00:39:16
Elon has look, it's a cult. And it's the same. I wonder what's going to happen to
00:39:22
Bitcoin because that has a culty feel to it. And I think a lot of Elon stands are
00:39:27
Bitcoin holders and are going to fund their SpaceX purchases with sales of Bitcoin.
00:39:32
>> Right. Right. So that's another thing. Yeah. So anyway, so we'll see what
00:39:35
happens. We'll be talking about it on Friday. But so you say it goes out at 135 and it drops.
00:39:41
>> Well, the the interesting thing here is if they can manually >> they're having some punitive stuff if
00:39:45
you sell it too quickly, too. There were some of that. >> Well, there's all sorts of lockups that
00:39:49
people are being asked to commit to. I think Elon and his banks will probably create enough artificial scarcity to
00:39:55
manufacture a pop. Um, but I I think 6 12 5 years down the road, 5 years is tough. I wouldn't I wouldn't get near
00:40:05
this thing. And if you are if you do get allocation, look at the first trade. Consider getting out on the first trade
00:40:11
>> and the index hurts it, right? The lack of being in the index funds now.
00:40:14
>> Well, that would have been additional demand out front, but you know, every
00:40:20
IPO up until now has not been in the S&P, so technically that should that shouldn't hurt. And there was complaints
00:40:26
about it being, you know, you were being forced to buy it if it went into the S&P
00:40:29
because of the people >> index funds. It'll be super interesting, but uh 94 times I know.
00:40:35
>> Okay. Amazon, incredible company. A lot of people think it's overvalued. What's
00:40:38
the trade up? Four and a half times revenues. >> You know, I like that you like math
00:40:42
still after all these years. Any interestingly speaking of what you were just saying, Donald Trump is looking
00:40:47
into the government stake in AI companies. Oh, buy at the top so American people can quote benefit from
00:40:52
the success of AI. He says leaders of all the big AI companies are coming to the White House as early this week to
00:40:58
discuss the idea. I mean, it's such a socialist thing. Open AI in the White House are in ongoing talks about
00:41:04
government stake according to CNBC. This is something that Sam Alman has been floating for a while. He needs the help.
00:41:09
As you were just noting, Alman was in DC last week and met with Senator Bernie Sanders who's been pitching a similar
00:41:14
plan because he's, you know, a socialist. as Sandra is proposing a sovereign wealth fund creating a onetime
00:41:21
50% tax on all on the stock of AI companies giving the public a direct ownership sake. Talk to me about this
00:41:27
cuz I don't I don't love it. I feel like what like I get I get that for example
00:41:32
the government gave a loan to Tesla when it was in trouble and didn't get anything back for it and Elon got all
00:41:36
the juicies but that's what the government is there for and they got they got their loan paid back but they
00:41:42
didn't get a stake and I think that was okay but I don't know what do you think
00:41:47
>> it is very easy once you get elected and everyone thinks you're great and you
00:41:50
have power to get start thinking you can control industrial policy and start picking winners and losers it is very
00:41:55
tempting that's socialism you control the means production. When you do that
00:42:00
and you start believing you're better than the private market and the full body contact violence of capitalist
00:42:05
private markets, you end up with warehouses in Ireland full of unsold Deloreans and Air France. It does not
00:42:11
work. If you want to support an industry like the chips act, everyone gets the same opportunity and the same subsidies.
00:42:18
If you want to support the EV market and you give tax credits and subsidies, everyone's available to it. When you put
00:42:25
a golden share into US Steel or invest in Intel, you have decided you're smarter than the market. You are always
00:42:33
always wrong. This is socialism. This is this is cronyism. It never works for the
00:42:39
economy. At the same time, Bernie Sanders is equally wrong. Taxes that are industry specific don't work. They came
00:42:46
up with the same nonsense idea around oil and gas when they were printing money in the 70s and 80s. Because then
00:42:52
what happens? Is Microsoft an AI company? If we start producing podcasts with AI, are we an AI company? Is Apple
00:42:59
an AI company? We need a more progressive tax structure that taxes our most successful companies, whether it's
00:43:06
anthropic or whether it's Apple or whether it's Novo Nordisk or whether it's Eli Liy, we need a more Yeah. But
00:43:12
when you go industry specific taxation doesn't work because then capital starts
00:43:16
picking industries based on taxes, not where the greatest return or innovation is. It it is it is [ __ ] populism
00:43:23
going after a specific industry. It creates a ton of bureaucratic unnatural acts across capital allocation.
00:43:29
>> Why not? Why don't we own like the hot dog franchise? >> What about cigarette companies? I mean,
00:43:33
>> what else can we have? >> I I love >> McDonald's. Americans like McDonald's.
00:43:38
>> Let's have a more progressive tax rate for McDonald's and anthropic and open
00:43:42
AI. >> Yeah. Why not others? >> That's it. Industry specific taxation
00:43:47
doesn't work. And if you want to invest in native industries or orphan industries or industries that have
00:43:52
strategic importance, fine. But when Donald Trump, a failed business person, gets into the business
00:43:57
>> like mRNA technology, which they took away stuff like that's already getting a
00:44:01
lot of private funding, but it means it makes sense. But everybody gets access to it, right? Every company,
00:44:07
you're not picking winners and losers, right? >> And so just as just as Trump is trying
00:44:12
to pick winners, that is no better nor any worse than Sanders trying to pick losers and deciding then going to the
00:44:18
White House to do because he needs the support, right? It gives him support. Gives him a little bit of
00:44:22
>> the biggest bailout, >> stable support, stable support. >> The biggest bailout since the banking
00:44:27
industry bailout will be the following, but it'll be positioned as growth. There
00:44:31
will be some sort of governmentbacked debt offering or backs stop for AI companies who can't afford the
00:44:38
infrastructure spent they have committed to when it's clear these valuations are
00:44:41
not going to hold up. And also, Trump realizes an entire economy he has bet on AI. the biggest bailout that'll be
00:44:48
positioned as a quote unquote growth opportunity for the US government. >> The taxpayer will hold the bag,
00:44:54
>> right? Trump Trump will Trump will position is I'm a smart businessman. We
00:44:58
have an opportunity to invest in this. It is going to be a bailout >> everything and we'll be holding the bag.
00:45:04
We'll be holding the [ __ ] bag. I swear to God, >> we'll privatize the gains and socialize
00:45:09
the losses >> because Trump thinks he's smart and thinks he's a good business person. make
00:45:14
such bad deals but like oh I just am like no no no let them die as you said remember years ago we're talking about
00:45:21
plane we were talking about you're like just let them die and something new will
00:45:24
happen just like you're saying about poor 60 minutes >> new dumb money will show up and say I
00:45:28
want to start an airline called you know >> Hooters I mean there's no shortage of
00:45:32
people who who desire to start airlines >> Hooters airline would be good anyway
00:45:38
>> there was a Hooters airline >> was there >> yeah you didn't know you fly
00:45:41
>> there was a Hooters airlines What? >> No, I've never I have never been in a
00:45:45
Hooters. Actually, I'd like to go. >> I have been in a Hooters cuz the wings
00:45:48
are very good. Let me say they are excellent. Excellent wings. Anyway, I don't much love. Actually, the ladies
00:45:54
are really nice in the Hooters. >> They do a great job from what I understand. They do a great job.
00:45:58
>> They are very nice. The ladies of the Hooters are nice. I There's a wonderful
00:46:01
story about a gay guy, a comic going into Hooters when he was his father brought him there to try to man him up
00:46:07
and the ladies immediately understood what the kid was going through and were sweet to him. He said, "I will love
00:46:12
Hooters people the rest of my life because my dad was trying to man me up and they understood that I was gay and
00:46:18
made me feel wonderful." Anyway, here's to the Hooters ladies. All right, let's
00:46:22
go on a quick break. When we come back, Siri gets a makeover. >> Support for this show comes from
00:46:28
Teleport. Here's a finding that should stop every tech leader cold. Organizations most confident in their AI
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00:47:35
Support for the show comes from Vanta. What's growing across businesses even
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started today at vant.com/pivot. That's venta.com/ pivot. >> Scott, we're back with more news as we
00:48:34
tape. Apple is planning to announce a Siri overhaul at its annual developers conference. Oh my god, you think the new
00:48:40
Siri features a chatbot uh style app and uses Google Gemini technology AI powered
00:48:46
web search. Siri will be able to understand personal data and analyze on-screen content and users will be able
00:48:51
to return to their prior conversations. A conference is the last of Tim Cook's
00:48:55
tenure before he hands the reigns to John Turnis. They've been there was a good story about how behind they were.
00:49:01
You know, Tim saying they were behind on AI and not doing enough. I think Siri has been um one of their worst things
00:49:08
they've ever done. It's so useless. I was walking here from the subway. I was
00:49:12
in Manhattan this morning doing some meetings and I got to tell you, Scott, like it couldn't call Amanda. Like it
00:49:20
can't do things. It sucks. Siri sucks. So, you know, and I'm not going to be
00:49:24
happy that it just is workable at this point. I'm just I I find it useless and
00:49:28
I think Apple is really missed a boat here for many years, for decades even. Your thoughts?
00:49:34
>> Yeah, we've talked about this. I mean, it's right up there with the Cybert
00:49:37
truck uh for like the biggest product fails, and that's unusual for Apple. Um,
00:49:44
it the the rebuilt Siri runs on a custom 1.2 trillion parameter Gemini model under a deal worth approximately a
00:49:50
billionear to Google and it's a three- tier rooting system that handles queries
00:49:56
on device for simple tasks, Apple's private cloud for moderate requests, and
00:49:59
Google's Nvidia B200 GPUs are used for heavy reasoning. and they're claiming
00:50:04
the new capabilities are multi-step commands, persistent conversation history synced via iCloud and an
00:50:10
on-screen awareness. It's being launched as a standalone app for the first time
00:50:14
and they've delayed the overhaul twice. The original AI boss left the company
00:50:19
before it shipped and critics warned that Apple was surrendering AI to Google the same way it surrendered search and
00:50:26
deepening the reliance on a competitor I would argue was a smart move because of
00:50:29
the licensing deal. Um um and John Turnis, you know, he might he might switch direction and want to put his his
00:50:35
mark on this thing. It's a big It's a make I don't know if it's a make or
00:50:40
break bet for Apple, but it's important because as of earlier this year, >> they were the only big tech company
00:50:45
whose capex decreased from last year. I'm not sure that's that's a bad thing.
00:50:50
But if you think about a market, I mean, I I accidentally turn on Siri by hitting
00:50:57
the wrong button on my phone 10 times a day, which mean it which means it is the
00:51:02
most accessible AI in the world. If I'm constantly bringing up AI accidentally
00:51:08
on my iPhone, that means it's the most access that it's the most accessible AI
00:51:12
in history. And for them not to be figuring out a way to get some of that AI guju, you know, it feels like a
00:51:21
missed opportunity, even if it means outsourcing all of it to someone else. They should be the front end. And Siri
00:51:28
is arguably at this point, I wonder if Siri needs a rebrand because it's it's
00:51:33
come to be it's come to be emblematic of something that just doesn't work.
00:51:37
>> It doesn't work. And I do put a lot of trust in Apple in terms of privacy. I'm
00:51:41
not worried about interacting with it as much um as I am like you load up everything into AI and I don't and but I
00:51:48
feel I trust Apple but it's incompetent. It's like having it's a bad assistant. I
00:51:53
don't can't believe it took this long for for Tim to have this assessment. Um
00:51:57
but uh you know one would imagine it's critical going forward especially if they're going into glasses and things
00:52:03
like that you know um that you have this thing that just does what you ask it to
00:52:08
do on a basic level. You know, there's AI in everything now and so much of it
00:52:12
is so bad and it's a missed opportunity because they're so good at everything
00:52:15
else. So, >> well, the best experience I've had with Apple AI happened this morning. I was
00:52:19
working out and as always I was listening to my mix of ELO and NXS >> I love EL
00:52:26
>> and Cap Cut for some reason I have the app Cap Cut on my phone and immediately
00:52:30
it said >> learn more about Cap Cut's editing features and I'm like and I just
00:52:34
instinctively went oh god [ __ ] off and Siri responded I won't respond to that
00:52:39
>> oh yeah it does that when you curse at it totally has >> I won't it was chastising it kind of
00:52:44
made me laugh >> it does that when you called him stupid when I called stupid
00:52:47
>> I won't respond to that which I do on a daily basis. It was like, I'm sorry you
00:52:51
feel that way. >> So, I've been saying to everyone that I won't respond to that. Anyways, that's
00:52:55
that's the best experience with Apple I've had. >> Anyway, good luck, Apple. Make it
00:52:59
better. We we have very low expectations that you will. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins
00:53:05
and fails. >> Support for the show comes from HIMS. Losing weight is hard and keeping it off
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00:54:10
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your business grow. That's upw.com/pivot. puperk.com/pivot. >> Okay, Scott. Uh, some wins and fails.
00:55:14
>> You go first. >> Okay. The win. I was just struck by this. There's all these movies that
00:55:18
people are going to the movies for, Obsessions and Back Rooms, which is started on youtuby kind of things, but
00:55:23
they're wonderful. I think people really like them. I don't think just cuz they
00:55:27
start on YouTube they have to be bad. But domestic box office crossed a billion dollars last month, a number not
00:55:33
seen since before CO, which is interesting. And that's without a Marvel movie, which I think is nice. There's a
00:55:38
lot of really interesting things out there that are doing well. Lots of different interesting movies. Um, the
00:55:44
big winners right now are the Michael Jackson biopic Michael, which I have not seen because it doesn't include some
00:55:50
other stuff about him. I think needs to be there. And the Devil's Proda 2 starring Cara Swisser, of course. Um,
00:55:55
but there's it's just nice. You're seeing a lot of that. And I do I I've
00:55:58
noticed I've gone to the movies recently. I know you don't, but I I hadn't, and now I am because I want to
00:56:03
see them in the movie theaters. And there's a couple movies I do want to see
00:56:06
in the in the movies the theaters including the next Top Gun. David Ellison, I think you do. Let me pay you
00:56:12
a compliment because I never do. You make a marvelous Top Gun movie and I like your Star Trek work and Mission
00:56:18
Impossible. My fail is the 60 Minutes thing cuz it's so unnecessary and stupid
00:56:22
and and I know reporters I agree with you can be like a little bit you know self-s serious and you know pompous and
00:56:29
stuff. In this case this they really are right and it's not they really are right. this is so dumb and they if they
00:56:35
can't answer the question why did you fire competent people if you can't
00:56:38
actually even answer it internally there's something wrong with you and at the same time the my two favorite
00:56:45
phrases right now are um my one favorite phrase that I'm using a lot now and poor
00:56:51
Nick had when he was leaving with that fraught meeting with Scott uh P um he was he said as he was leaving he sort of
00:56:59
flounced out because he was getting fried by Scott and Scott is a tough guy. Um, he said, "Enjoy the bagels."
00:57:06
There some people from 60 Minutes said they're going to make secret t-shirts
00:57:10
called enjoy the bagels exclamation point. Um, and I just enjoy that, but I don't enjoy any of the rest of it. I
00:57:16
don't. I think it's sad and it's unnecessary and stupid. Um, so anyway,
00:57:21
that's my fail. >> I like it. Um, >> enjoy the bagels, Scott. >> There you go. Enjoy the bagels. So look,
00:57:26
my win is uh the the death of higher education has been greatly exaggerated. Applications are up, but that's not my
00:57:36
win. My win is our great public universities. Uh one of the most underreported stories
00:57:42
in America right now, I think, is that the market is finally disciplining higher education. And that is families
00:57:48
are waking up and realizing that paying a half a million dollars for a bachelor's degree is a luxury good
00:57:54
masquerading as an investment. And applications to our flagship public universities which are a much better
00:58:01
value are exploding. The University of Texas at Austin received more than 90,000 applications up 25% yearon year.
00:58:10
>> Why applications at places like the University of Virginia, University of
00:58:13
Michigan have surged record. My son's there. Alex is there. >> The university, the my alma mater, UCLA
00:58:20
gets 160,000 applications. They get the number of a small city. And why are they
00:58:25
doing this? Because we're coming to an uncomfortable truth. And that is after
00:58:29
your first job, you know, people people care that you got into a good school, but they don't care if it's a good
00:58:35
school or quote unquote an elite school. They just want to know that you went to
00:58:38
a good school. And they also care whether you can just do the work. >> They're also great schools. Let me just
00:58:43
say for Michigan is substantively less expensive than >> UC San Diego >> than NYU. I'm sorry.
00:58:49
>> University of North Carolina. >> Yeah. >> I mean, these are outstanding schools
00:58:53
that guess what? >> Can we just point out it wasn't cheap, but it was substantively more less
00:58:58
expensive. >> It was less expensive. It I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a good value. I'm
00:59:01
saying it's a much better value. >> It is. >> And the ROI gap that you're referring to
00:59:05
is staggering. At many flagship state schools, an in-state student can graduate with tens or even hundreds of
00:59:12
thousands less debt than access and access comparable employers, alumni networks, and graduate school
00:59:19
opportunities. You know, the elite schools have spent 30 years turning themselves into luxury
00:59:24
brands. And the public flagship spent 30 years building capacity, research, and outcomes.
00:59:30
>> Did you see what I sent you? The numbers for those elite schools have gone up
00:59:33
like over a h 100,000 each for each year. >> It's crazy. >> I said chart. I was like what? Like even
00:59:42
I who have recently paid for it was sort of flumxed and upset. >> Yeah. So look the new the new American
00:59:49
dream isn't getting into Harvard. It's getting rejected by Harvard and then
00:59:53
going to Michigan or Texas, landing the same job and using the quarter of a million dollars you saved as a down
00:59:58
payment on a house. And I should post higher ed all the time because I think me and my colleagues have been drunk on
01:00:04
scarcity and reflect this dangerous trend towards rejectionism where we feel good when we turn away 90% of our
01:00:10
applicants. Similar to a head of a homeless shelter bragging that he or she turned away nine and 10 people last
01:00:17
night. We are public servants, not Hermes bags. But I do think our great public universities are doing their
01:00:24
level best. You go to the University of of Wisconsin at Madison and you see exactly what you should see. It's not
01:00:32
it's not I it's not the Ritz Carlton Carlton Madison. The buildings are a
01:00:38
little tired and haggarded and there's thousands of students floating in and
01:00:43
out of their classes and it's a bunch of middle class kids from Wisconsin and
01:00:48
Minneapolis who are not freakishly [ __ ] remarkable. Some of them were captain of the middle class team. Most
01:00:53
were not. Mo most are socially conscious. Most have not figured out a freshwater startup to bring potable
01:01:00
water to Rwanda. They're just good kids looking for great futures. A lot of our
01:01:04
public universities are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. And
01:01:09
folks, when you hear someone saying, >> "Oh, our daughter, we're thinking that
01:01:14
she doesn't need education because of AI or higher ed." That means she just got a
01:01:19
22 on the ACT. Higher ed has never been more important. Critical thinking, social responsibility, getting along
01:01:25
with others, relationships, getting your heart broken, breaking other hearts. If
01:01:30
you are one of the one onethird of American public that has access to higher education, trust me on this, it
01:01:37
is a really solid plan B, especially if you can go to one of our great public universities who are continue to follow
01:01:43
their mission. Anyways, >> can I put in a little plug for public schools in general?
01:01:48
>> 100%. >> My kids are both in public. They're in public schools in Washington DC and I
01:01:52
have to say I feel so good about them and they're great and they're doing
01:01:56
really well. >> I went to public school kindergarten through graduate school and the
01:02:02
generosity of California taxpayers and the vision of the regent of the University of California are literally
01:02:07
why I'm why I'm here with you now. And 7,000 my total tuition first off acceptance rate at UCLA 74% was one of
01:02:16
the 26% that didn't get in but I reapplied. They let me in because they had that kind of capacity and bandwidth.
01:02:22
My total tuition, 5 years undergrad, two years graduate school, $7,000. I showed
01:02:27
up to UCLA with a with a like a 1982 Volkswagen rabbit and $300. And I got through all five years and all two years
01:02:37
of of graduate school with no money with student jobs and $15,000 total in debt.
01:02:43
>> Amazing. Amazing. And now they want you to be Andy Rooney, which you're not.
01:02:46
>> There you go. Anyway, um I really appreciate that's a great one, Scott. Um
01:02:50
uh is that your fail? That's your win. What's your fail? >> That's my win. Thanks. My fail is um my
01:02:56
fail is Ferrari's electric car. This is a rare misstep from one of the world's
01:03:02
great brands. I feel like Ferrari announcing an EV is like Makaker Mark, my favorite whiskey brand, announcing
01:03:09
it's launching bottled water. It might make sense. It might even be profitable,
01:03:13
but something important just died at the Ferrari. >> People are bad at the Ferrari. It was
01:03:19
Johnny I for people to not know, right? >> It's like text ruin [ __ ] something
01:03:23
else. >> Nobody spends a half a million dollars on a Ferrari because it's efficient.
01:03:27
They buy it because it makes irrational noises that trigger a primal masculine wonderful instinct in the male brain.
01:03:35
The end, the engine isn't a feature, it's the product. and and luxury is
01:03:39
about scarcity, emotion, and theater. And an electric Ferrari is becoming a very expensive appliance. Nobody puts a
01:03:47
poster of an appliance on their bedroom wall. No, nobody wants to give you a random oral sex cuz you have a hot
01:03:52
appliance. Maybe a Subzero, but only if you own the home around it. Anyways, don't know how I got here. The challenge
01:03:58
The challenge isn't engineering. Every competent automaker can build a fast EV.
01:04:03
The challenge is replacing 80 years of Italian heritage built around noise, vibration, and mechanical
01:04:12
uh drama with software. Them going electric is like >> say it looks like a Honda.
01:04:18
>> Well, it's like it's like Rolex launching a smart watch. It might sell,
01:04:22
but you've confused the source of your value proposition. This is one of the
01:04:26
great brand mistakes of 2026. >> You're right. It really even I looked at
01:04:31
it and I was like that's not a pretty car and Ferrari be pretty like you know
01:04:35
what I mean. It was like so simple. Um yeah I think it was a a Johnny I misstep in that regard. Anyway um we want to
01:04:42
hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
01:04:47
to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe I did a show about
01:04:53
sports and in this case the World Cup. Uh this week on on with Cara Swisser I'm
01:04:57
talking to uh talking about the World Cup which kicks off later this week across the US with the US as one of its
01:05:03
co-hosts. The others are Canada and Mexico. I talked to a panel of experts including New York Times sports
01:05:08
correspondent Trick Pan. We talked about the crazy ticket prices and also the fears that ICE will ramp up enforcement
01:05:15
among other things. Let's listen. >> A lot of those people will be soccer
01:05:19
fans will be football fans as we call them here. They'll be coming from all over the world. all be in the United
01:05:23
States hoping to go to games. I remember last summer the US hosted the Club World
01:05:29
Cup and there were Brazilian teams there for example and I talked to some fans of
01:05:34
Flamingo which is Brazil's most popular team who were living in Boston. Now they
01:05:39
were going to go in convoy to watch the games um last summer and at the last minute they thought hang on this might
01:05:47
not be a good idea. We don't want to be so visible driving in this big convoy of
01:05:52
Brazilians to this soccer match. It >> was really good. And guess who asked the
01:05:55
question? Scott Galloway. He love your question. You'll like the answer, Scott.
01:05:59
I appreciate it. >> Yeah, but you talking about sports is like Greta Thmberg reviewing steakouses.
01:06:04
I just >> I mean, >> it's a good It's a good You know, they I
01:06:08
let them talk. I just ask questions. >> It's like a cat breaking down the
01:06:13
Westminster dog show. It just >> I tried the universe almost producers love soccer.
01:06:19
>> It's like it's like RFK talking about vaccines. It's literally the the world
01:06:24
came off its axis. >> I tried. I think I did a good job. I did. I can't do it again for a while.
01:06:30
>> I think it would be easier for a nun to review Only Fans. I just >> Anyway, you helped me a great deal and
01:06:39
gave a good answer. Right. You called me and you said you said you have to do me
01:06:44
a solid. And I thought it was going to be something big and you're like I'm
01:06:46
interviewing the head of FIFA. You or someone. You have to ask a question. >> On the World Cup. Yeah.
01:06:51
>> Like I can do that easily. By the way, >> ticket prices. >> I'm obsessed with the World Cup. I went
01:06:57
to Russia. I went to LA in '94. I went to Russia. I went to uh Qatar. I'm going
01:07:02
to this one. Granted, it's the final, but category one final seats, which are
01:07:08
good seats, but to go to the final, the ticket price, the face value is $38,000.
01:07:15
>> $38,000. >> It's going to be Spain, they said. They say Spain is
01:07:20
>> Spain's amazing. Spain's going to win. They said the kid, they said Spain, all of them agreed
01:07:27
Spain was going to win. And I had I was like, okay. >> No, they said Spain. Anyway, um anyway,
01:07:32
and I don't even know what that means. Oh, and I know there's some new player
01:07:35
there, young player. Anyway, and this is the last thing for Messi and some other
01:07:38
person. Who was the second person? >> Ronaldo and also Harry Kane. There's
01:07:43
>> this is their last this is their last show, right? Correct. >> Well, they said the last time, but it
01:07:49
looks it it looks like um it this does look like you have some uh um >> change over
01:07:55
>> change over, but you also have Mbappe. Yeah, you have no now we're talking
01:07:58
about >> the gentleman you you referred to as Laminia Maul who was scoring goals at
01:08:03
the age of 17. I took my son to a game >> and I looked at him and I felt bad. I'm
01:08:08
like I'm like in a in a disparaging way and like I'm like that kid's younger
01:08:12
than you. I'm like you better like get something going on. I'm like younger than you.
01:08:17
>> That's enough sports talk. That's enough sports talk. That's enough for Cara.
01:08:20
Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Enjoy yourself this week, Scott. of the SpaceX IPO and the
01:08:27
World Cup. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on
01:08:32
Friday.