00:00:00
Good evening, Chicago, greatest city in America. Well, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast that cuts through all the spin. We're talking about Pivot
00:00:17
with Carara Swisser and Scott Galloway. Now, these two break down the biggest stories and aren't afraid to call anyone out.
00:00:30
Pivot is honest, informative, never boring. And that's why it's so smart that Cara and Scott have come to Chicago because this is a city that's always
00:00:42
been about innovation, hard work, and telling it like it is. So, no better place to be in the country than here in Chicago tonight. So, please
00:00:56
join me in welcoming Cara Swisser and Scott Galloway. I you know Washington was a little louder. So let's try that again. No.
00:01:30
Oh boo Washington. Oh, what do you think? I'm Trump at a football game. Cut it out.
00:01:44
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00:04:00
Hi everyone, live from the Chicago Theater. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:04:07
Network. I'm Carara Swisser and I'm Scott Galloway. And before we start, I want to send, as
00:04:20
I said, a big thank you to our sponsors, ODU and Upwork. And please give a huge round of applause to tonight's special
00:04:27
guest, Governor JB Pritsker. I think I think you're popular. I'm not hearing booing. Um uh so we're going to
00:04:42
talk about a couple of things. Um I'll ask you at the end about Epstein. Apparently there was some news today.
00:04:49
Any quick thoughts? Actually, there's nothing quick about it except Trump, Epstein, I think we know what happened there. Okay. Um, it's really interesting. Uh,
00:05:00
just as they got back and they did seat the representative which pushed it over the edge and actually others did join in. Um, we'll talk about it more, but
00:05:08
um, I want to actually talk about Chicago and about the controversial immigration operations that have taken
00:05:13
place in the city after nearly 60 days. Agreed. uh Border Patrol official Gregory Bo who's trying I guess he's trying
00:05:25
he's trying to get cast as the guy that got his face melted in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Um
00:05:31
he's too short for that. Any many of his agents are reportedly planning to leave as early as this week with the Trump administration's downshift
00:05:44
of operation midway blitz. I don't know where they come up with these names. The summer reports indic reports indicate
00:05:49
that federal agents could return four-fold in the spring. I guess they want they can't take the weather because
00:05:54
they're wimps like you guys can because they're snowflakes. Exactly. So, how do you continue to navigate the
00:06:01
push and pull on this strange federal immigration enforcement? Well, let me start by saying, and I really am not pandering to this audience, it's the people of Chicago
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that have truly reacted to them. and protected our neighbors and our friends. People have come out. The number of whistles that have been purchased all acmarked
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vehicles and guys wearing masks. Uh people are coming out of their homes. People who've never protested before,
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people who've never been engaged before, they're outraged and they're coming out to warn their neighbors and their
00:06:38
friends, you know, ICE is here. Be careful. Protect yourself. Know what your rights are. And the people of
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Chicago have just done a terrific job. For two months now, they've been under siege by Customs and Border Patrol, by
00:06:50
ICE, by Gregory Bavino, and uh and this city really stepped up, activated, peacefully protested, and has pushed back. I'm really proud of everyone. So, what how do you how do you deal with
00:07:03
this working presumably with the mayor, but how do you how they don't call you, right? You don't know a lot.
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They don't communicate at all. It's the first time that I I think in my lifetime
00:07:13
uh that the federal government isn't talking to the state government about operations that it wants to do in our
00:07:20
state. And uh it's very frustrating. So we read things in the news that come from, you know, they've got this uh this
00:07:28
uh lying spokesperson at the Department of Homeland Security, Trisha Mclofflin, who literally I mean everything that comes out of her mouth is false. uh and
00:07:38
that's how the news gets the information and then we've got to figure out what's
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true not true in reality and then tell the news and of course react to it. So it's it's very challenging but I will
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say that um we've seen uh a lot of really terrible things on the ground. I think everybody here probably has witnessed something. Um, we've asked people and they've reacted to it to pull
00:08:03
out their phones, their iPhones, their Android phones and video everything you see. And you know what that's led to?
00:08:10
Federal cases that we have won. Thank you. So, so presumably you're not in touch with Christy Gnome, correct? Yeah, Christie doesn't call me. I don't
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know why. Now, h how does it usually work? I mean, some governor, some people are asking
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some of those sort of pandering uh officials want them to come in. Why Why do you think they targeted you? You're running because you might be running for president. What do you think is the I don't think they targeted me. I mean,
00:08:39
Donald Trump has had a problem with Chicago for as long as anyone's heard anything out of his mouth really. Um, he
00:08:45
attacked Chicago. He did back in 2016. Uh, he does all the time. He has this idea in his head that everything's on
00:08:51
fire here. He said the same about Portland, I might add. I'm not sure why, but and guess what? Those are the first
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two cities um well beyond LA anyway, that they uh sent ICE and CBP into. Um but I all I can say is that, you know, they thought they were going to be successful here. They have not been
00:09:11
successful. Again, thanks to the people of Chicago. And they're not just in Chicago. I want to just give a shout
00:09:18
out. Um, you know, ICE and CBP really have been all over the state, uh, in the suburbs as well as downstate. And there's a little town, I'll just tell you a quick story, a little town called Stuntton, Illinois in central Illinois,
00:09:32
where there's a an undocumented man who's raised his family there. He's got a wife and kids that go to school there.
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He owns a restaurant there. U, he's been in this country for 20 plus years. And uh they arrived in Stuntton, Illinois in central Illinois and they grabbed this guy and disappeared him for a whole day.
00:09:51
His family didn't know where he went to. Uh and the town of Stuntton, 4,000 people live in this town. 500 people showed up to protest.
00:10:03
So where does if they come back in the spring, what what are your what is your move if they come back with four times the force? The unfortunate thing is that
00:10:13
because of the supremacy clause in the constitution, federal law enforcement has the ability to as long as they are following federal law. And you ought to take note, they're not following federal
00:10:26
law, but there's no one that's holding them accountable at the federal level. But they are allowed, they have uh
00:10:32
limited immunity as officers of the law, uh even if they aren't following the law. And so they it is very hard to push back on them. So, the way that we've done it here is number one, we've made
00:10:44
sure everybody knows what their rights are. And I'm talking about undocumented people, and I bet we all know somebody.
00:10:49
They overstayed their visa, something. They're here in this state for one reason or another, but have been here
00:10:55
for a long time paying their taxes, following the law, raising their families. They're good neighbors and
00:11:00
friends. They're they're their workers. And uh they've been here quite a long time. and and you know they they're
00:11:08
coming for th those are the people supposedly they're coming for rather than criminals rather than the worst of the worst which
00:11:13
is what Donald Trump said that that he was going after. Instead they're stopping people who are have brown skin
00:11:20
or black skin and just asking them for their uh United States citizenship papers. I don't know about any of you but I don't carry citizenship papers and we shouldn't have to in this country.
00:11:31
So Scott So, I I um voices to the governor when he was on the podcast, "Every year I do a bucket list with my sons. I say, "It's our weekend. We can do whatever you
00:11:44
want." My oldest wanted to go to a PSG game in Paris. And my youngest, we live in London, said, "I really want to go to
00:11:50
Chicago." So, we came here, Steakhouse, batting cage, went to the tallest building in Chicago, which every kid has to do. uh had a by just had a fantastic weekend.
00:12:04
If you think of cities and states as a product, right? You're a relatively high tax state, not the highest. Uh you offer
00:12:13
uh services, economic opportunity, but pitch the product that is Illinois and Chicago. Like why? As as imagine you're a recent college grad with just a ton of
00:12:26
options or an immigrant that has incredible human capital and could go anywhere. Um what's the pitch? Sell me
00:12:34
on Illinois as a place to choose to spend my formative or young adult years. I I might add that I I'll make the pitch, but I will tell you that this is
00:12:46
the destination for most kids at universities in the Midwest. We have an enormous influx of people here from Michigan, from Indiana, from uh
00:12:58
Missouri, and so on. People want to come to the city of Chicago, the young people uh coming here. I mean, it's an
00:13:04
exciting, vibrant city. Uh I would say there are several things. I mean first if you're a young person uh we've got
00:13:11
you know great jobs at tech companies we are growing interesting uh fact I heard
00:13:17
from Google which is within Google maybe somebody here's from Google um but there
00:13:22
you go I heard that within Google if you want to transfer around to one of the other offices either because your spouse
00:13:27
is moving or whatever the the most requested place to move to in the United States is Chicago and
00:13:39
and and they just are I don't know if any of you have seen but they just Google it are moving to the center of
00:13:46
the city of Chicago. They actually bought the building from us from the state of Illinois and they're redoing it
00:13:52
and it's going to be absolutely gorgeous. So, um it's a great vibrant city where there are a lot of really good jobs whether it's the tech
00:13:58
businesses or um I'll just add it's a great sports town and uh importantly a great place to raise your family. And I I last thing is
00:14:11
I lived, you know, I I've lived in in lots of different places when I was younger. I lived in uh went to school in
00:14:17
North Carolina, you know, uh lived in California, lived in Washington DC, uh lived in just outside of Boston. So, a lot of different places. And I can say this, no more decent people in a big
00:14:31
city than in the city of Chicago, right? Um I think I think Scott was looking for what's your favorite bar tip, but that's okay. Um uh one issue
00:14:42
about the just this week uh President Trump said the Miracle Miles shopping center which in Chicago I covered retail here by the way once covered our nation's once considered our nation's
00:14:54
best now more than 28% vacancy factor and is ready to call it quits unless something is done about murder and crime
00:15:00
which is prevalent throughout the city. Call in the troops f this is in all caps. Call in the troops fast before it
00:15:06
is too late. So, first of all, it's the Magnificent Mile. It's It's not Thank you. It's not a shopping center. Um, and
00:15:13
you said in response, and this was interesting, the man is demented. He really has no idea what he's doing. Um,
00:15:25
that's an interesting choice of words. Uh, but but I would assume the city's capable of handling real estate
00:15:31
vacancies without federal intervention. Yeah, he look he, like I said, he loves to dump on the city of Chicago. Uh the reality is that that honestly this state
00:15:42
is on the rise. This city is on the We've got We have a lot of really great things going for us. And it doesn't help
00:15:48
when you have the president of the United States with some crazy notion of what the city is. He doesn't come here.
00:15:54
Uh, I think if you, you know, he's got such a bad rep with everybody in Chicago that if you ask most people, they'd like
00:16:00
to tear the the name Trump off that building of his. Yeah. Uh, you know what's wrong with it? The font is wrong. It's badly sized font. It
00:16:16
really is. It's offensive. Yeah. Yeah. I I yeah, there's other things that are wrong with Trump, but uh uh but I I I will say this that he's,
00:16:27
you know, um he likes to dump on us, but he he just he doesn't read. Apparently,
00:16:32
he doesn't spend any time Yeah. trying to understand anything at all. And if he did, because he also put a tweet out or
00:16:39
whatever his I don't know, truth, false, whatever it is, tr social. Um uh but he he put something out, you know, where he was he claimed credit for the
00:16:51
last four years of crime coming down precipitously in the city of Chicago. And I mean our our our homicide rate has been cut in half. And they've been here for two months, you know, not getting
00:17:03
the worst of the worst off the streets. And he put out something today or yesterday claiming that any success
00:17:09
we've had has been because of him. And again, all I can say is he does he should, you know, I wish he well, I don't really wish he would spend more time here. Uh but but I mean, if he
00:17:22
understood this city, uh you know, like most people who come here and spend any time here, it's a great city and and he
00:17:29
should know it. But um I I uh anyway, I'm I'm I'm frustrated by You demented. You stick with demented.
00:17:35
I got to stick with demented. I I I mean otherwise like almost everything that comes out of his mouth is false.
00:17:42
So, I'm frustrated because he's got the biggest bully pulpit in the world and he's, you know, talking crap about the city of Chicago and all I can say is I
00:17:54
mean the all the people I bet a lot of people that are in the audience move to the city of Chicago and will vouch for
00:18:01
the city with everyone. You know, support for the show comes from ODO. Running a business is hard enough and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for
00:18:12
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00:19:07
This country is in the middle of a massive redistricting war, the term control of Congress. Apparently, the
00:19:12
Republicans might actually lose seats now uh through their redistricting because they're turning pink or purple,
00:19:18
especially in Texas. But they're only up a half a seat right now and possibly down four through their efforts. But
00:19:24
Illinois, what what what is going to happen here? Well, I've been say we're going to take a poll tonight. Um uh you know they they're going state
00:19:36
by state, right? Uh Republicans are and trying to get well Donald Trump is trying to get the governors and the
00:19:42
Republican legislators to redistrict and Indiana right next door to us has been on again, off again, on again. They're they're trying to do it. Uh and what I've said is that and there's been a
00:19:55
pairing of states by the way. Missouri is trying to do it and therefore Maryland might do it in order to cancel
00:20:00
out Missouri. California did it to cancel out Texas. Uh, you know, if Indiana does it and they're going to meet in December to decide, I I think that would push
00:20:12
Illinois toward redistricting. So, but I will I will add we have 14 Democrats out of 17 seats. So, um, we're
00:20:23
doing okay. Democrats are doing okay in this state. So, uh, two questions. First
00:20:28
is, do you think the seven Democratic senators should have voted to end the shutdown?
00:20:38
There were eight, by the way. Eight. Um, and uh, and I know every single one of those people. Uh, and I can tell you that I mean that that's probably the biggest mistake I've seen maybe in my
00:20:50
political career. Um it was the wrong thing to do. Uh Democrats won eight days ago everywhere in the country that there was a an election. Yeah. And I I would have thought that would
00:21:04
stiffen their spines in the United States Senate not loosen them. And unfortunately we saw people who are retiring. It makes no sense to me. People that are retiring who have really
00:21:15
nothing politically to lose uh and should have it's part of the scheme presumably,
00:21:20
right? It's it's a scheme. Exactly. But I I'm frustrated and and you know, I I you know, one of them was our senior senator here. I was I was dis I was very
00:21:33
disappointed. He he's had a he's really done a lot of good things for the state, a lot of good things for the country. I
00:21:40
was disappointed in his decision to do that. Our other senator, who I think extraordinarily highly of, also
00:21:45
criticized the senior senator, her name is Tammy Duckworth. He did a great job and voted against it.
00:21:50
So why do you think why do you why do you think they did it? What was your theory? I mean there was all these
00:21:55
theories of game the I understand but there's also these game theory thing that's out there.
00:22:00
I think many of them had come and you heard them some of them at press conferences yesterday. Um I think they
00:22:06
came to the conclusion that that you know this has gone on for so long that it's hurting people and that they could
00:22:13
rescue the country from this situation. But the reality is the guy who created this problem is Donald Trump. And he's the guy who refused to sit down with Democrats. By the way, what was he
00:22:25
doing? Why did he hold out and not sit down with Democrats and go along with he wanted to shut the government down? Why? And the reason I mean this is the crazy thing. He wants to deny people
00:22:38
food in order to force the country to accept less healthcare. I mean, what is the logic? Your job as president of the United States is to make people's lives better. Democrats just wanted health
00:22:50
care, a restoration of affordable health care. That's all Democrats wanted. And Donald Trump was willing to starve people in order to hold to his position. you know, it's it's it's arguably one of
00:23:03
the best uh campaign slogans of the 21st century is that we would, you know, that
00:23:10
Democrats are the ones who are fighting for people to get fed and get healthcare and that it's the Republicans and Donald
00:23:17
Trump who are willing to stand against it. And so I don't get it. I really don't do it though. Why did the Democrat
00:23:22
I I again I thought I think that they felt like we're running up against Thanksgiving that people aren't going to
00:23:28
be able to get their flights to wherever it is that they want to go that that that the public will hold both parties
00:23:34
and maybe Democrats more so for some reason uh responsible. But the reality is that that's not what was happening, right? I mean Republicans rightly so. They're in control. They've literally
00:23:45
got every branch of government in their hands and they are the ones responsible for this. And yet these eight decided to
00:23:52
give in. I It is too bad. You know, the Democrats, people rely upon Democrats to
00:23:58
do the responsible thing all the time. Guess what? Who who's doing that? The Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump
00:24:05
are the ones who are, you know, we've got to go do the right thing so that they can get away with murder.
00:24:12
So, um, two more quick questions. One, we talked to Governor Healey in Boston about their efforts to make Massachusetts an AI hub. you're leaning
00:24:19
into quantum computing. Talk really briefly about the strategy here. So, yeah, we've got we've got first of
00:24:25
all, we've got some of the best institutions in the entire country uh for building quantum and AI. We've got
00:24:32
Argon National Laboratory, Fairmy Lab, University of Chicago, University of Illinois, Northwestern. Uh not to
00:24:38
mention, as I I mentioned those mid those Midwest institutions, Purdue, University of Wisconsin, Madison, etc.
00:24:46
All great places, right? and people come here to Chicago, they want to come here. So, we have all the makings of it to
00:24:52
begin with. Second, University of Chicago came to me in 2019, uh, wanting to build out what's called the Chicago Quantum Exchange, and I had just passed or was about to pass uh, a major
00:25:04
infrastructure bill for the state, one that hadn't been passed, I mean, we hadn't had anything like that really ever in our history. uh and asked if we
00:25:11
would invest in making Illinois and the Chicago Quantum Exchange uh the the the hub of quantum for the country and I insisted that the University of Illinois be the partner in that endeavor and
00:25:24
putting that together and then we we're now building a quantum campus that has made that has really put us on the map
00:25:30
that there's there are three states that are going after being the quantum hub of the country Colorado, Maryland and
00:25:35
Illinois and we are in the lead. Okay. Hey, Tara. Can I do a quick So, I want you to imagine that you're a popular governor and you decide to run for president. Yeah, that's the question I was going to
00:25:48
ask. Go for it. What am I imagining? What What was that? Running for president. Oh, I just want to do a lightning round,
00:25:54
quick responses, gut response on some policy ideas. Uh, mandatory national service. We've got to train people for the jobs of the future. I believe that doing some
00:26:06
kind of service uh allowing people to go to trade school potentially in that service, right? Whether it's so we're not talking necessarily about military service, but just serving the country.
00:26:17
We've got a whole lot of infrastructure that get needs to get built. I think that would be a great way for people to
00:26:23
operate. Uh lower eligibility for Medicare by three years every year in office such
00:26:29
that it's 41 by the time you leave. Basically, a move towards nationalized socialized medicine. Woo.
00:26:35
Lowering it every couple of years. Socialized medicine. Socialized medicine. Lowering Medicare. Oh, I'm for universal healthcare. I've
00:26:41
been I'm I'm I believe everybody deserves to have a doctor and have Fair enough. Universal universal
00:26:46
childare. Are you kidding me? I I came into office with 25 years of child care and and
00:26:53
federal minimum wage from 725 to say 20 or $25 an hour. What was raise the minimum wage?
00:26:58
Oh. Oh, are you kidding? This is my topic. um uh you know $14,000 a year no one can live on anymore. That's $7.25. That is the national minimum wage. So if
00:27:09
you don't live in a state like Illinois where I helped to raise it to $15 an hour, you are living in poverty and
00:27:17
holding down a full-time probably two full-time jobs, making $28,000 a year if you work two full-time jobs, unable to really raise your family while you're doing it if you're working two jobs. Uh,
00:27:29
and so I, yeah, I'm a big believer that we've got to raise the national minimum wage, $725, by the way. Greatest
00:27:36
political issue ever. To what? Minimum wage. Well, at least $15. That's what we've done here in the state of Illinois. And,
00:27:42
by the way, hundreds of thousands of people no longer live in poverty in the state of Illinois because we raised the
00:27:48
minimum wage. Last question. A massive increase in support, armaments, long-range missiles,
00:27:55
and potentially boots on the ground to Ukraine. Well, I don't want to send boots on the ground. I think that we have an opport we had an opportunity under with with
00:28:05
Joe Biden in office. He was doing the right thing. Look, they should fight their own war, but we should support
00:28:10
them because I mean, Russia is not our friend. And Russia wants a piece of the rest of Europe and it is Ukraine that stands in the way. And so, we ought to be supporting uh the nation of Ukraine.
00:28:23
Donald Trump walked away and has let Vladimir Putin essentially kill hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine and and now, you know, and he says, "Oh, he's such a great peacemaker." He hasn't
00:28:34
made peace anywhere. He's basically just sided with one side, let them blow over
00:28:40
their competition, their their their enemy, and then, you know, that's that's the way
00:28:45
I lied. I lied. Last one. Removal of section 230 protection for algorithmically elevated content.
00:28:54
social media. I mean, this is probably the probably the the biggest danger to young people in this country. We have got to put some limits. I tried to pass a a law last spring. Uh we're going to
00:29:09
try again this year uh that would ban cell phones in classrooms across the state. That's an easy one. And that that's the way we can do it in
00:29:19
the state of Illinois. But there's a whole lot the federal government ought to be doing. All right. So, how close are you to a
00:29:24
presidential run? And tell me in numbers, right? 3 months, 6 months. We we I love being governor of Illinois. I'm
00:29:36
running for re-election, by the way. Blah blah blah blah blah. Give me We've got a great bench. What else do you want me to tell you? We've got a great Democrats have probably the greatest bench that we've had for quite
00:29:48
some time in for 2028. I think you're running for president, so you can go now. Um, no. Um, looking good. I'm just
00:29:56
saying you're slimming down. You're looking good. I'm just Anyway, thank you, Governor Pritsker.
00:30:01
We'll let you get back to work. Let's have a round of applause. Support for the show comes from ODO. Running a business is hard enough and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to
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already scaling it up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to
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put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try ODO for free
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at odo.com. That's odo.com.