00:00:00
We're having a good day here over at Pivot. Oh my god. Oh my god. Let's just
00:00:04
liberate. Literally. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I'm Scott Galloway and it's Liberation Day. When I
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heard about these two Yeah. when I saw the tweet were basically the fastest zero to Europe pedophile land speed
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record set. Yeah. From Elon Musk. I got to be honest. The blood flow came back. Yeah. Did it. The blood flow came back.
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I'm even hard up. Oh my god. Oh my god. Mean girls except with old men. The first breakup of pride. Oh my god. Let's
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explain what's happening here cuz listen, Trump Elon bromance is officially over. Let's just say let's
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they have broken up. This is like housewives of New York like but times 20 on steroids. The two men laid into each
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other publicly on Thursday. This is after like troubling a couple a week or so of troubling as Elon left and they
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had that nice little Oval Office thing. But today it it broke hard, real hard. Speaking of hard, um, with Trump
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expressing his anger and frustration after Elon called his big, beautiful bill a disgusting abomination, which is
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fantastic. Sitting in the Oval Office with Germany's chancellor, Trump suggested Elon was suffering from Trump
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derangement syndrome, which is something Elon's accused people of. Meanwhile,
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Elon started [ __ ] posting on X in real time, saying, "Without me, Trump would
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have lost the election." And such ingratitude. He's probably correct. Trump later threatened to cut Elon's
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government contracts and subsidies subsidies to which Elon replied in light of the president's statement about
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cancellation of my government contracts. SpaceX will be begin decommissioning its
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Dragon spacecraft immediately. This is what NASA uses to do everything right now. Um it's just it's just ugliness.
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And then of course he threw in a pedophile thing around um around Epstein saying Trump was in the Epstein files.
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That's why they didn't release them. It's that's just in the hour it
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happened. Um Trump also had no qualms about referencing Elon's black eye in the Oval Office last week. Let's listen.
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You saw a man who was very happy when he stood behind the Oval desk. And uh even
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with the black eye, I said, "Do you want a little makeup? We'll get you a little
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makeup." But he said, "No, I don't think so." Which is interesting and very nice. He wants to
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be who he is. So you could make that statement, too, I guess. Look, Elon and I had a great
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relationship. Uh, I don't know if we will anymore. Don't know if he will.
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This is like such a great breakup. I'll note I've been talking about this
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breakup for a while now. I knew this day was coming and how it would go down. I did. Let's listen to what I said back in
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the fall. It's like two like desperate people desperate for attention sponges
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fighting with each other. This is Highlander to me. There can be only one. I think they're going to have such a
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falling out. It's going to be delicious to watch when it comes. All right. It's
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delicious. Scott, it was just a week ago these two were doing this lovely sendoff
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in the Oval Office, but it was weird. For sure. Um, what do you make of how ugly it got and so fast? I mean, as hard
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as you are. Um, that's something I haven't heard from a woman in 15 years.
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Yeah, I know. I had to do it. I have. It's clear. Just a couple more. These two toddlers continue to throw [ __ ] at
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each other. Elon posted he was, as I said, dropping a really big bomb that Trump is in the Epstein files. responded
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yes to a post about impeaching Trump and replacing with JD Vans. The girls are fighting is trending on X. I'm just
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going to read a couple more tweets. This is like Kendrick versus Drake but with two drakes. Ashley Sinclair who just had
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Elon's baby, alleged baby. Hey real Donald Trump, let me know if you need any breakup advice. Kanye West weighed
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in saying, "Bro, please know we love you both so much. Thanks Kanye." There's a
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tweet making fun of David Saxs asking to be picked up at the White House because
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he's scared. Um, what do you what do you think's happened here, Scott? I mean,
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besides enjoyment for you and I and the rest of the world, I think this is a great example of what it means to not be
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a man. Grown men are supposed to be able to take blows and be the bigger man and
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walk away. I just think these are two [ __ ] manchildren. And it's it's just it's if it wasn't so
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sad, it'd be this funny. Or I guess it's just so beyond sad. It's funny. I was
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looking I was looking for some sort of insight here other than these are just two toddlers. Um you know, a drug addict
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versus a malignant a malignant toddler. I I went to okay, who does the market think is going to win? And Donald Trump,
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well, Donald Trump media closed down 8%. Tesla stock is down by 14%. Tesla's lost
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$150 billion in value today. But that might be because Tesla actually has a real business you can do some value to.
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But $150 billion in destruction and value. I mean essentially what Musk is doing is what every CEO is afraid to do.
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Musk doesn't every CEO in America has been afraid to show their true feelings
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and id for fear it would hurt shareholder value. Musk doesn't care. So he's willing to say accuse the president
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of being a pedophile and he loses $150 billion in value at Tesla. And then if you look at
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if you look at um Koshi and some of the things that investors or some of the things that's going on here um the
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chance that the the uh the bill gets passed has gone down. Um there's uh I would say the
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biggest biggest uh will Trump and the EV tax grade odds spike from 74% to 80%. When will the Senate pass the
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reconciliation bill? Odds that it will pass before July fell from 49 to 44%. So it feels like this chaos is not going to
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be good for the for the trending bill. Yeah, the most interesting thing I saw is that there's some talk that this
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might be the potential silver lining is it might shift Elon back to the middle. Two hours ago, Mus tweeted a poll that's
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gotten over 2 million votes. He asked, "Is it time to create a new political
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party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle and 80% of respondents have said yes?" But it
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really is sort of a the two arguably the two most powerful men in the world squaring off in the high school
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cafeteria. What do you think? So, which one would I think Donald Look, Donald Trump is going to prevail because he's
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the president, right? Ultimately, that's right. But I think it's finished for
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him. I think it's finished cuz Elon is willing to go Yeah. nuclear. He really
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is. He doesn't have a problem with which what you just said, interestingly enough, that that CEOs all want to say
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this to Trump, right? They want to stop being pushed around. If he's doing it,
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it will give permission to everybody else to start pushing back on Trump. I think Oh, I don't know. Because I think
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every CEO looks at a a 14% decline in the stock in one day and thinks I don't
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control my board, I could get fired for this [ __ ] I mean, Tesla shed $150 billion in value. But I mean, that the
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idea that you can if Elon's doing it, like especially ones that are, you know,
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look, Jaime Diamond's been critical. I think it'll give people permission to be
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more critical of Trump and start to chip away at his power, you know, because I I
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I've always thought that he's in real trouble because of the trends in the
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polling and everything else and by 2026 it's finished for him. But now this sort
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of there's no telling what he I warned the Trump people this there's also no
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telling what he could do, right? You just don't know where he's going. He's
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got means. He's got motive. He's angry. He's, as you know, a petty person. He's
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got, as you discussed, a problem with some drugs. Um, I think this guy could just go right
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off the rails and take Trump with him because he's so affiliated with Trump if
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you think about it. And he's absolutely right. He helped get he he was the critical part of getting Trump elected,
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I think. Yeah, he may have he may have in fact got him elected. But the thing is, and you've been more right than
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wrong on this, you predicted a while ago that this was going to be the mother of
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all breakups at some point, and it's happening. And now it seems obvious, but
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at the time people weren't predicting it, and you did predict it. But here's
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the thing. I think Trump has proven himself, we're in a slow burn towards an
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autocracy and autocrats will sick their department of justice on people and he's
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the president. And so if he wants to sick his DOJ on them, if he wants to fire up inspector generals to say, "I
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have some real fears about his autonomous technology and we're auditing Tesla's tax returns. Oh, and by the way,
00:08:51
we we have evidence that he was carrying elicit drug." I mean, this guy isn't
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beyond No, but now everything will be tainted, right? It's just it'll be so
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obvious to people what he's doing. And whether you like Elon or not, he still
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has a lot of fans too, right now. His numbers were declining be because of his affiliation with Trump, right? His
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numbers were going down and and his, you know, he had just lost a lot of because
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of the the the affiliation with Donald Trump. But if he's against Donald Trump,
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he'll get different fans, right? You could see it's almost, oddly enough, it
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is like a wrestling match, right? Um, and this is how Trump conducts everything. We're in the middle of a
00:09:35
wrestling match with one of those idiot narratives that they have there, which is they're throwing blows. They're
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causing entertainment. But in this case, I Elon can truly do a lot of damage to this man. And especially those who are
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so affusive about him like Mike Johnson and others, right? He can pick them off one at a time. And Trump has to protect,
00:09:57
right? In some ways, Trump can't go nuclear on him in a similar way. Maybe he can. I think this is such a tough one
00:10:04
to call. And I think if if our biases are coming out here, I think what we're
00:10:10
discovering is you hate Trump more than Musk and I hate Musk more than Trump. No, no, no. I just think he's
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unexpected, right? And so he's a wild card. I don't I think he's Listen, I
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would do an interview with him in a five seconds to talk about this, but I think
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that he he is he's Trump is somewhat reliably corrupt the way he is. Trump, you never know what Elon's going to do.
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You just don't. But I I I read it as this is peak Musk cuz what I just keep coming back to, I think
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Musk lately looks like an out of [ __ ] control drug addict. I I all semblance of sense, reason, self-control seem to
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have literally I just think the guy's totally come off the rails. But the really the one big takeaway here, Cara,
00:11:00
is it's just so obvious that women are just too emotional to hold this much power. That a woman is just too
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emotional to be president. I mean, they menrate, they have hormones, they're
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just too emotional. It is the first breakup of Pride Month. Um, what what does it mean for Doge
00:11:19
though? Like now what's going to happen to Doge? And those staffers, I think
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there's like 90 of them are they got to go. They got to get rid of them so they
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don't do any because they're out. They're out because they're worried
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they're more Elon loyal and they're probably very scared. They're probably
00:11:30
in the midst of already trying to turn off their access. I think the Doge cuts will stick because I think Trump doesn't
00:11:36
care about you know what, nuclear stockpile inspectors, I don't care. US ID, I don't care. I don't I think that a
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lot of those cuts will just stick and they will but yeah the Doge the Doge you know youth or children of the corn
00:11:52
they're absolutely out but I I personally so I I I saw when I saw Musk in that office with a black eye looking
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around I thought he can't not be high long enough to go to the Oval Office and
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have the whole world staring at him. So, I think this is just I I I saw this and I've been so wrong
00:12:19
about this. I've I've predict this over and over. I thought that that press
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conference, that presser with Musk in the office was peak Musk. I'm like, I And you thought that was it? That was
00:12:29
the thing because Trump's now saying he threw him out. But go ahead. Well, I I
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just think the guy is the guy is a rabbid. He's like he he's to see drug
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addiction jump the sh like really go whatever it is parabolic make the jump to light speeded on in full display.
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That's what I thought the story was. I mean these people start fighting with
00:12:52
everybody, right? I don't that's an onion headline. Elon Musk once again
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gets along with nobody. You're right. Trump joins. We are we are now on the same list as Donald Trump, right, of
00:13:03
people Elon has picked fights with essentially, which is weird when you think about it. I got and I gotta I
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gotta be honest, I wouldn't say I was relieved, but I had several people reach
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out to me, including friends who are lawyers, and go, I think, you know, do you have a [ __ ] ton of liability
00:13:17
insurance because I think your comments in the last day, make it very likely that someone uh from from US Universe
00:13:23
just decides to file a nuisance lawsuit against you. You said, "I hope you're
00:13:26
ready. It's coming." Yeah. Let's let's say what we're referencing. You gave an
00:13:30
incredible speech on um on Piers Morgan. Let's play that and then talk about it
00:13:36
quickly. I think his legacy is not going to be an EV or putting rockets into space. I think it's going to be
00:13:42
unnecessary death, disease, and disability of the world's most vulnerable. That is not what it means to
00:13:49
be an innovator. It's not what it means to be an American. It's not what it
00:13:52
means to be a man. All right. So, Scott, I mean, that was something. I was so proud of you. I have to say, I
00:13:58
appreciate that, Cara. Um, it's like that's my man. There you go. Um, there's
00:14:02
my my lady. There's my lady. There's there's my girl. You went way farther
00:14:07
than I go. I'll tell you that. I just look at everything, not everything, mostly everything through the lens right
00:14:11
now. I'm trying to raise two good men. I I'm not I'm barreling towards the end.
00:14:15
And I'm a healthy person. So, I think what is my purpose? My purpose is to raise two loving, patriotic men. And I
00:14:21
I'm constantly thinking about role models. The president and the world's
00:14:25
wealthiest man should be role models for young men. And the whole point of prosperity, if
00:14:30
you're the wealthiest man in the world, it's pretty simple. What does that mean?
00:14:33
Prosperity should translate to protection. And this guy right now, this drug addict who says his daughter is
00:14:40
dead to him on a podcast and has cut aid to the neediest people such that 1500 babies a day now are being born HIV
00:14:52
positive. Uh has two women concurrently suing him for sole custody of their child. This is exactly what it means to
00:14:57
not be a man. This is exactly what you are not supposed to do when you recognize the blessings of this type of
00:15:02
prosperity. And I think it's just shameful. I I think it does tremendous damage to the next generation of leaders
00:15:10
and tech leaders. All right. Let me ask you to to depraved is a big word. That's
00:15:14
I I was really struck by that word by the way. Um what happens now to his companies because he said he was going
00:15:20
to be focusing on Tesla, focusing on Starling. Now he'll have a very troubled
00:15:24
he's obviously not going to get all the gimmies that he got. Although he did get
00:15:27
the regulators off his back, but maybe not now. Maybe they'll be back on his
00:15:31
back. Um what if you were him? He obviously is out of control. That's very clear. But what would you do with each
00:15:39
of the what's going to happen to each of these companies? And and specifically, I
00:15:43
mean XAI, obviously Twitter. Can I just tell you I would now pay $8. Remember we
00:15:48
said there's no [ __ ] way. So be good for Twitter. I got to say it's probably
00:15:51
good for Twitter in a really sick way. But what um where do each of these businesses go given his like clear off
00:15:59
the rails situation? I mean, no good public no publicity is bad publicity. What? No. U first off, Trump could cut
00:16:08
off all subsidies to Tesla almost overnight. He could sick the DOJ on them. He could start a series of federal
00:16:14
investigations. You could lean on governments to say, "Do not if you engage in stling contracts or or
00:16:22
um uh award contracts, whatever it is, to Tesla, um I'm I'm going to be less
00:16:27
inclined to negotiate with you on tariffs." This is an autocrat. And the whole democracies are run on trust.
00:16:33
Autocracies are run on fear. And the way an autocracy evolves is you punish your
00:16:39
enemies severely. You normalize violence against them. you use the DOJ and the power of the White House and to hurt
00:16:47
that company and those individuals. I this is absolutely could be terrible for Tesla. It could even be worse for
00:16:54
Starlink because all of a sudden basically Trump could decide I don't give a [ __ ] about um communications
00:17:01
technology on the battlefield in Ukraine. I'm going to make it I'm going
00:17:04
to tell the joint chiefs and the department of defense that they need to seize Starlink and take control of it
00:17:10
because it's a security threat. Yeah. And what about uh for XAI? Oh, because
00:17:15
now he's going to be left out of all that. That that's like good day for Sam
00:17:18
Alman presumably. I think that in the short run, as you said, Twitter gets a lot
00:17:24
more attention. Everyone's going to be tuning into what what he's saying. But
00:17:28
when you when you Trump is going to basically decide I need to beat this guy publicly
00:17:36
now that they've gone to war with each other and Trump has nuclear weapons literally. Not that he's going to use
00:17:44
them but he has the Department of Justice and he's not afraid to um abuse the law and habius corpus to go after
00:17:52
people. I mean, I love the idea of ICE agents taking Elon Musk to South Africa, and I don't think that's going to
00:17:59
happen, but it could. That was Bannon's. That was Steve Bannon's thing. Yeah.
00:18:02
Well, you couldn't Trump is now Trump is now an autocrat. He's now shown no
00:18:09
fidelity to the law or due process. He's going after individuals. He's he's he's
00:18:15
normalizing violence. I I don't I wouldn't put him past him. I wouldn't I
00:18:18
would imagine he's already in a war room with his his attorney general Steven
00:18:23
Miller Steven Miller that I would love if I could be anywhere like a little fly it would be with between Steven and
00:18:29
Katie says Katie Miller works for Elon right now the secretary of commerce and just be saying come up with a list of 10
00:18:36
things to [ __ ] kick this guy in the nut so hard he doesn't know what happened. H I don't know, Scott. I'm I
00:18:43
got to say I think you're on You believe team You believe you're betting on I'm
00:18:46
not team Elon because I think he's it's going to end badly for him. I think he's
00:18:50
Howard Hughes. I'm sorry. I do. But this is not good. Is likable. Yeah, I know
00:18:55
that's true. Um I think it's going to This is bad for This is bad for both of
00:19:00
them. Bad. They look bad. Look, this is this is when Iraq is in a war against Iran. You're you're hoping the bullets
00:19:08
win. This is, look, you're right. This makes them both look just childish and stupid.
00:19:14
But if we're talking about who is exposed to greater risk here, President Trump has the CIA. I get
00:19:22
it. But I think he's now he's now absolutely going to lose control of Congress. Absolutely. No question. Now,
00:19:28
what's the Democrats going to do? Just sit back and watch, I suspect, for a minute. just like just so today I
00:19:35
addressed the Democratic young young young caucus which is people under the age of 140 actually it's under the age
00:19:43
of 50 a really exciting meeting I got to meet Representative Crockett and some other people and I was saying they asked
00:19:49
me for a bunch of ideas and I said right away you need to come up with an alternative tax bill that positions you
00:19:54
as the adults in the room and I came up with a bunch of ideas. I immediately reached out to the person who organizes
00:19:59
this caucus and I said, "I I draw the comment based on what's happened today.
00:20:04
Do abso fuckingutely nothing. Do not say a word. Do not do anything. You do not get in the way of your enemy shooting
00:20:13
themselves in the foot." I'm like, "Let the let this control the news cycle.
00:20:17
Don't do anything. Don't say anything. Don't do anything. Let the entire media
00:20:23
world focus on this fight, which they will." And it is. This is a distraction,
00:20:26
but what a fantastic. Anyway, we're having a good day here over at Pivot. Oh
00:20:30
my god. Oh my god. Let's just liberate. Literally, we shouldn't be like this,
00:20:36
but we do. We're Oh my god. This is What is this? Our super. Usually, usually in
00:20:40
a half hour from now, we have a half bottle drink of Jack and a condom hanging out of my ass. This is about to
00:20:44
be a good good time, Cara. Oh my god. This is about to be a good good time. Yep. Anyway, call me Elon. I'm here for
00:20:53
you. I'm here for you. I'm a shoulder to cry on. SpaceX. So good. Happy to do an
00:20:58
interview. So good. I was going to watch Friends and Neighbors tomorrow. No way.
00:21:02
I'm watching this. Anyway, uh Scott, let's go on a quick break. There's a lot
00:21:06
more to get to, but before we do, I just want to remind our lovely listeners that
00:21:09
you can also watch us on YouTube. The link is in our show notes. If you're already watching, don't forget to like
00:21:14
and subscribe. Okay, Scott, when we come back, how Trump's grudges, and this is
00:21:18
the biggest one, are informing his latest executive orders. And Elon, there's an executive order coming your
00:21:23
way probably tomorrow. Scott, we're back. Perhaps in an attempt to steer the
00:21:28
conversation away from Elon Musk. President Trump issued a series of executive orders on Wednesday night.
00:21:33
This is how he governs by by fiat or tries to. These include a new travel ban that restricts the entry of people into
00:21:40
the US from more than a dozen countries, mostly from the Middle East and Africa.
00:21:45
An investigation into uh former President Joe Biden and his aids. Trump is having the White House counsel and
00:21:51
Attorney General Pambani examine whether some of President uh present President Biden's presidential actions were
00:21:57
legally invalid, claiming AIDS acted without his knowledge. Biden has called this ridiculous and false. An order
00:22:03
blocking Harvard's international students from entering the country. Harvard called this illegal, by the way.
00:22:09
Trump also called on Secretary of State Marco Rubio uh to begin revoking visas of current foreign students in the at
00:22:15
the university. I mean, he just can't stop. He He cannot stop these things. Um, and when it comes to tariffs,
00:22:22
President Trump is still perfecting the art of the deal with China's President
00:22:25
Xi. Trump posted on True Social early this week that she is quote, "very tough
00:22:30
and extremely hard to make a a deal with." Chinese state media reported on Thursday that the two leaders finally
00:22:36
had their long-awaited phone chat, a call initiated by Trump. This is the first known formal contact between the
00:22:42
two since Trump's inauguration. Trump has reportedly been obsessed with this
00:22:47
she call according to Politico, convinced he can hash things out. Um, China has leverage. It halted uh exports
00:22:54
of rare earth magnets in April as the trade war was escalating. This is really problematic. US and European automakers
00:23:01
uh say they're running out of these magnets which are needed for EV motors, windshield wipers, brake sensors, and
00:23:06
more. Some companies are considering shifting production to China to avoid export restrictions. Building electric
00:23:12
motors there or shipping US-made motors to China to install these madness. Of course, it's against the goal of
00:23:18
bringing uh manufacturing back to the US. The opposite might happen. So, talk a little bit about these these executive
00:23:24
orders first and then I think China's winning this. Oh god, Trump is so incompetent. I
00:23:30
can't even with with the Chinese. Um, but uh let's talk about these orders cuz
00:23:35
this is what he does when he feels out of control presumably. Yeah. I don't I I
00:23:40
I feel as if you have someone who walks up to a poker table, goes all in, and then negotiates and then folds before
00:23:47
anyone else responds. And I wonder if I I'm you know, I believe a lot of this
00:23:53
his his um policies on immigration are still his kind of number one policy. So I think he keeps saying let's push it
00:24:02
further and further because people seem to respond, you know, negatively, but it's still his kind of number one most
00:24:09
approved approach. And these images of ICE rounding up people are shocking, but I think there's a certain element of his
00:24:17
his base that actually thinks finally we're getting serious about this. Uh I I
00:24:22
agree with you. I think China holds all the cards here because while the tariffs
00:24:27
they've done math but what they haven't calculated was what does the math
00:24:31
actually mean on the other side of the equation and that is while we can probably heard ch the Chinese economy
00:24:36
more than ours China is an export economy it doesn't have the same level of internal consumption that we have
00:24:42
only 17% of our GDP is based on exports so we're actually quite a self-sufficient society despite all the
00:24:49
calls that you know we need to reshore everything we're actually more self-sufficient
00:24:53
across energy even manufacturing than people believe the but what what they failed to take into account is our pain
00:25:02
thresholds and that is unless you're going to so for example let's look at
00:25:06
Europe Europe is ringing its hands over what to do with Ukraine I mean they they
00:25:11
they're supportive of the Ukrainian army uh they've given money they've actually
00:25:15
given more money than us but they would never I don't think they would consider
00:25:19
putting a boot on the ground meanwhile Putin continues to call up more people despite coming up on a million young men
00:25:26
either killed or wounded. I mean, so when you're calculating the calculus, you would think, well, okay, the EU has
00:25:34
a $19 trillion economy. The Russian economy is 2 trillion. It has triple the population. We should be able to kick
00:25:40
their ass in a war. But they're not taking into account the pain thresholds of the respective parties. And that's
00:25:47
what I think we're missing or Trump is missing with respect to negotiating with
00:25:50
she. She doesn't She's not afraid to have to put three, five, 10 million
00:25:56
Chinese out of work. He's not afraid. They're We let our thoroughbreds run. We
00:26:02
are so obsessed with the stock market and any hit to prosperity. We're worried
00:26:05
that Americans are going to revolt. She's not afraid to put companies out of
00:26:10
business, even if it means a decline or a massive loss in capital. So, I think he's vastly
00:26:16
underestimated. I The bottom line is I just don't think she scares this easily.
00:26:21
And I think they're having a lot of productive conversations with nations and trade agreements that they didn't
00:26:26
think were possible just a hundred days ago. So I agree with you. I think she has all the cards here. He does. I mean,
00:26:31
Trump is so badly playing this. And one of the these orders, and I know you have
00:26:35
talked about them as a a distraction, whether it's the Biden one or the travel
00:26:39
bans or the students blocking Harvard's international students entering the country, they still create all kinds of
00:26:46
havoc in terms of whatever it happens. like even if ultimately they get pushed back, you have to spend time getting a
00:26:52
lawyer, you have to spend time doing the fight, you have to spend time. So, I don't think they're just a distraction.
00:26:58
They're meant to to, you know, they're like flashbombs, you know, like you're
00:27:02
you can't see for a minute. And they do have real world impact. And that's the
00:27:07
point of them is to do that even if they get overturned cuz maybe 20 of them, they do 20 and 17 get overturned, but
00:27:15
three don't, right? And that's what they're doing here. Um, I do think it
00:27:19
matters that they're creating a situation putting Harvard on its back heel almost constantly. Even if in the
00:27:25
end Harvard will win, they'll they'll win with a lot of damage. Um, same thing
00:27:30
with all these other things. And again, as linking to China, it gives China an advantage. It gives China gives all our
00:27:36
enemies an advantage for us to be both petty and bullying when we don't have
00:27:42
the cards, right? It just doesn't. We just don't have the cards here. you're
00:27:46
playing poker, I suppose. Um, but I think they have, especially with the things they have like magnets,
00:27:52
manufacturing, everything else. This is what companies will do. They will do what it takes to create economic benefit
00:27:59
for themselves. And if that means uh shifting to production in China, that's
00:28:04
exactly what they'll do. So, the opposite of what Trump wanted. Well, to be fair, I think Trump's initial
00:28:09
instincts around a real trade asymmetry with China was was correct. there the the IP flow into China is one way. They
00:28:18
take Tesla and uh Apple technology and upskilling and then they don't let it
00:28:23
leave and there's no they they let their media companies into the US but they
00:28:28
don't let ours in. So the IP flow is one way. There's a trade. There's real valid
00:28:33
concerns. But to go to the Norm McDonald joke, the late comedian, he said he had
00:28:38
this great bid on I don't know if you are history buffs, but uh if you've
00:28:42
heard of this country called Germany, they decided twice last century to declare war on the world.
00:28:51
And quite frank at a very basic level that's why Hitler lost was he was absolutely blitzkrieg basically took
00:28:59
over France in two weeks conquered most of Europe in several months was threatening to take over Britain wanted
00:29:05
to negotiate with Chamberlain said I'll let you keep the empire I want Europe
00:29:09
then knows who knows what would have happened but his mistake was he decided to declare war on Russia and if you
00:29:18
wanted to isolate China and have really strong a really strong hand to negotiate
00:29:23
better terms on IP where they steal it and sell it back to us more inexpensively whatever it might be
00:29:29
wouldn't you want to sign up the EU and Latin America or would you declare war
00:29:34
on EU and Latin America at the same time thereby creating we were we were allies
00:29:42
with Russia because Germany was so aggressive he has turned our strongest allies into quite quite frankly
00:29:50
sympathetic to China. I had dinner I had dinner with the I had dinner with the CEO of Alibaba, a wonderful guy. He was
00:29:58
in Europe roaming around talking to European companies about them using the Baba cloud because for the first time AW
00:30:05
people are having concerns about using European companies are having concerns about using Azure or
00:30:11
AWS. So this is just the the worst thing the it is terrible to be fighting with your allies. But what's worse is to be
00:30:21
fighting without your allies. Yeah. Or also damaging the most the strongest parts of this country. Not just
00:30:28
attacking allies, attacking things in this country, whether it's Harvard or scientists. It's a constant attack on
00:30:36
people our strongest members right of of our country and what we can do. Immigrants who bring innovation.
00:30:42
universities who may have to have reform but not from the government. They should
00:30:46
not this way. Um you know there's this idea that I keep thinking about is a lot
00:30:51
of the stuff Trump is talking about like the the problem with trade with China or
00:30:56
too much wokeness or whatever it just pick whatever you want. Everyone I know is like could could agree with some of
00:31:03
the direction but every single person including a lot of Trump supporters are like yeah but not this. It's like you're
00:31:09
seeing so many interviews with Trump people like I didn't think he'd you know
00:31:12
this this is sort of the leopard ate my face idea. Um, but like not like this, not this, not this. And it just is it's
00:31:20
overkill. And the executive orders are the the expression of that. These crazy [ __ ] executive. He looks like such a
00:31:26
chump by doing these. But at the same time, you know, even though he accuses Elon of being sort of the toddler. I
00:31:32
think that's what they're doing. He's the toddler. He's the actual toddler.
00:31:36
Elon's just one of the toddlers running around the White House. But this is what
00:31:40
he's doing. Just making a mess. And then Yeah. to no strategic value. Just to go to
00:31:48
cosplay Henry Kissinger here and I won't even say Marco Rubio, but a real secretary of state in terms of rail
00:31:55
politic. You know, they're going after Harvard under the oposis and this is there's never been a flag this false of
00:32:02
anti-semitism. And I believe, for example, if you really cared about, say, I won't even
00:32:08
call it anti-semitism, but say you cared about the war in the Middle East, the the the the Israeli Gaza conflict, what
00:32:14
whatever you want to call it. I don't believe the key is Israel or Hamas. I believe the key is Qatar. I think if you
00:32:23
wanted those hostages released and you wanted some path to uh uh sustainable peace, you would put massive pressure on
00:32:31
Qatar who has been funding the tunnels and the bombs and providing safe haven for the senior leader leadership of
00:32:40
Hamas. I believe that's the key. And let me ask you this. Do you think do you
00:32:44
think Trump is really going to bring about pressure and is really concerned uh with a country that he just accepted
00:32:52
a $400 million plane from? So, and then the notion that they they give a [ __ ] about anti-semitism at Harvard. There
00:33:01
have been three very scary anti-semitic attacks. Two young, lovely, engaged people who were working at the embassy
00:33:07
were shot down and murdered. Governor Shapiro, who his house, someone tried to burn down his house um who was blatantly
00:33:17
anti-semitic. And there was an attack in Boulder, Colorado, where an Egyptian man
00:33:21
used a makeshift flamethrower and Molotov cocktails to attack a group u participating in a solidarity walk for
00:33:27
the hostages in Gaza. Has the president referenced any of those things? No. No. But quote unquote, he needs to go after
00:33:35
anti-semitism at these universities. It's all nonsense. It's all absolutely
00:33:39
And we've discussed the we've discussed the just the economics here. And just
00:33:44
think about it as an export. The export of education, letting foreign students into our universities is a bigger
00:33:49
business for us than us selling our movies and TV shows overseas. So this is all I it's just such um I I'm
00:33:59
just trying to think how you could and there's a certain brilliance to this if
00:34:04
you thought how do I reduce our prosperity as elegantly and as efficiently as possible and get some for
00:34:10
myself and then be corrupt at the same time in some ways. I have to say I kind of like even though Elon's a heinous
00:34:17
piece of [ __ ] as you noticed um I can see possibly a penny dropping with him with this bill. I think it is totally
00:34:25
self-interested. At the same time he can do math, right? Like he can't he can't
00:34:31
even put up with this, right? Like he he's like no. Um, I mean know ultimately
00:34:38
a lot of business people in this country even if you're as unhinged as Elon are
00:34:43
are globalists, right? Like if you want to use that term, even though it's has
00:34:47
negative connotations, they they live in a global world, these our companies in the United States and Trump is
00:34:55
systematically ruining their chances across. Anyway, we have to go on a quick break. When we come back, the next name
00:35:01
on Trump's naughty list, Jerome Powell. Scott, we're back with more news.
00:35:05
President Trump is lashing out at Fed Chair Jerome Powell, urging him to cut interest rates following the release of
00:35:10
the ADP jobs reports. The report shows private payrolls ticking up by only 37,000 when the Dow Jones forecasted
00:35:17
110,000. The president posted on True Social, calling the Fed share too late, Powell, and unbelievable. Trump and
00:35:23
Powell met at the White House last week, but the conversation was uh was reportedly confrontational. You think he
00:35:30
wanted to push him out? I he may try to do that. I don't think he's allowed
00:35:34
again again create chaos, try to do something that's potentially illegal, but who cares? How do you imagine this
00:35:41
is going to end? He's going to try to push him out or that maybe he can't
00:35:44
sustain the energy to do so and he'll move on to his next ridiculous executive
00:35:48
order. Yeah, I don't think he can. I don't think Chairman Pal Chair Pal stared America in the face. He stared uh
00:35:56
senators on the right side and on the left side. everyone from Elizabeth Warren to Ted Cruz who were calling for
00:36:02
interest rate cuts and said no inflation inflation is is the enemy here and we are going to fight inflation and he
00:36:10
tamped down inflation by raising interest rates at the greatest escalation over a 15month period in
00:36:15
history and there was huge he does not get nearly the credit he deserves for the for the unfolding crisis that never
00:36:23
unfolded because he took a leadership position. The OECD has cut its growth forecast for the US from 3.2% to 1.6.
00:36:32
They have cut that in half. And these numbers sound small, but when you go from 3.2% to 1.6 on a 27 trillion
00:36:40
economy, you're talking about a loss of growth of $400 billion in business. That
00:36:45
is real cabbage. And they cited it was very simple. it's insecurity over tariffs and global trade and a and um a
00:36:54
weakened or uncertain immigration policy. So we have growth coming down and they're also predicting that
00:37:00
inflation is beginning to spike. That is really if you want to see I don't even
00:37:07
like to use the word impeach because that's when people accuse uh the left fairly of politicizing certain things
00:37:13
that shouldn't be politicized. But if you could imagine a scenario where Trump was impeached, I don't think
00:37:19
it would be corruption, I would think if all of a sudden, and there's a scenario
00:37:24
here where inflation goes rampant, absolutely rampant. And PAL is just not going to participate in that. And and
00:37:32
you're already seeing an uptick in inflation. You're seeing some job destruction, although I don't know if
00:37:37
that's at the hands of AI. I think it's too early to tell what's going on. If
00:37:41
you look at the market right now, to be fair, and I've been surprised by this,
00:37:45
the market is only about 3% off of all-time highs. It's had one of its best Mays in the last several years. Now, a
00:37:51
few things are going on. One, either the economy has decided or the market has decided, you know, Trump's policies are
00:37:59
not that bad. Maybe maybe they're not as bad as everybody says, or people have
00:38:05
decided he's not serious. None of this is going to hold. the courts are going
00:38:09
to swap slap all of this away. It's all a giant [ __ ] and distraction and he
00:38:13
always chickens out. Or they've said, you know what, at the end of the day, the headline news around the [ __ ] going
00:38:18
on at a government level isn't as important as we think. That the American economy is so incredible, it just kind
00:38:25
of grinds on. People are using learning how to use AI. They're still going to
00:38:30
the grocery store. They're still taking vacations. Companies are still innovating. They're still selling.
00:38:35
People are buying. People are still hiring. Because if you look at the economic data and you look at the market
00:38:40
right now, you can cherrypick pieces of data that guys like me who are catastrophists like to call on, but I've
00:38:48
actually been shocked at how resilient the economy is right now. But chairman pal is not going to be muscled around by
00:38:53
anybody. Not going to be muscled around. No, he's not. He's Trump might try it
00:38:58
when he get if he gets desperate enough. We'll see. I mean, he he can only put
00:39:01
out so many fires. He he does have to settle with Musk and hope that he calms down because if he's fighting with this
00:39:07
person, this person, this person, this person, it's really going to start to
00:39:10
mount as chaos, you know, sort of a chaos monkey. Um, the California State Senate is looking into Paramount's
00:39:17
reported settlement offer to President Trump over his lawsuit alleging mental anguish from the editing of a 60 Minutes
00:39:22
interview uh with Kla Harris. Um, Paramount report. Oh my god. Anyway, whatever. They can
00:39:31
try it. Paramount reportedly offered Trump a $15 million settlement, which the president did not think was enough.
00:39:36
California Democrats expressed concern that the offer, which comes as the company hopes for a merger approval from
00:39:41
the administration, raises bribery questions. A letter sent to former news uh CBS News officials also mentions
00:39:48
concern about the implications for journalism and integrity of corporate governance. Former 60 Minutes EP and the
00:39:53
former CEO of CBS News have invited to testify voluntary. They left after not agreeing with Sher Redstone about what
00:40:01
she was doing. Um, uh, it's interesting, she's in a real jam. Um, uh, as a quick
00:40:07
note, just another media company is in a real jam. Over at Warner Brothers Discovery, shareholders rejected a pay
00:40:13
package for CEO David Zazoff that would have given him a 4% raise, upping his pay to $51.9 million. Warner Brothers
00:40:20
Discovery has seen its revenue decline 10% in the last year, and his stock is quite off from when the merger happened.
00:40:26
But talk a little bit about this case cuz I think this is really cuz they are in a bind because if they do this
00:40:32
settlement they're going to get bribery allegations eventually. I mean the whole
00:40:35
thing and and of course the Trump administration the coin op Trump administration would like some vague for
00:40:42
for whatever in whatever way it happens to be for approving this. um they've
00:40:47
completely corrupted the process even you know the whole process of of of merger approval and they have willing um
00:40:54
supplicants at the FDC um and the FCC to do this. Well, I first off regarding Trump's claimed anguish and mental
00:41:04
health struggles, I don't think that's anything to joke about. And my advice
00:41:06
for him is the way I approach mental health is the same way I approach sex and that is I always come first.
00:41:15
He's back. Take that. Take that, Mr. Wonderful. Why didn't you tell that joke
00:41:19
on Fierce Market? What What do you think of this? Is a really interesting problem
00:41:23
for this company. This perfectly embodies the the fulcrum or the tension that is happening across corporate
00:41:30
America right now. And that is the easiest thing to do is to stay out of his crosshairs and not be the subject of
00:41:37
some crazy punitive uh one-off tariff that takes your stock down. And your shareholders and your
00:41:45
board say, "Boss, couldn't you just kept quiet or stayed out of his way?" And
00:41:49
Sherry is sitting on a melting ice cube. She was worth 20 billion two years ago.
00:41:53
Last year she was worth 10 billion. Now she's worth four billion. And if she
00:41:57
doesn't sell this thing to some billionaire who wants to go to the Academy Awards soon, she's going to be
00:42:01
worth two billion. So her attitude is fine, 60 Minutes. It's great to be a [ __ ] purist, but I don't want to be
00:42:08
the one that that turned that took my father's legacy and turned it from 20 billion into two to one. You know, she
00:42:17
just wants her money. So, paying this guy $10 million, uh, the idea of the lack of
00:42:23
integrity or fidelity to journalistic or first amendment clauses, she's like, you
00:42:28
know, well, it sucks to be a grown-up. Money is more important to me. That's
00:42:31
the same calculus that Bob Iger made. That's the same calculus that Paul Weiss
00:42:36
made when they decided to bend a knee and do pro bono work for Trump related causes. And unfortunately, the line of
00:42:46
people waiting to uh ignore the any fidelity to American values or the Constitution or the rights of free
00:42:53
speech, the line of people in the Fortune 500 that is willing um to enter that room. There is no line. No one's
00:43:01
done it. I can't think of anyone. I want to salute Harvard, President Garber, who
00:43:07
stood up and said, "No, Colombia tried to deal with him. Columbia's gotten a
00:43:11
lot of [ __ ] for it. But the reality is Colombia thought they could say, "Okay,
00:43:15
maybe we can make some uh consolations here and move on." And then they came
00:43:20
back with sort of this mind control and thought control and they've given up.
00:43:24
Harvard didn't even go there. Harvard saying no the reason we have so much money also Harvard has a lot of powerful
00:43:30
people but the list the the the list of the names of corporate CEOs who have just overtly explicitly stood up and
00:43:39
said no there is no one I mean maybe the guy at maybe the guy at Costco who talked about DEI but no one has stood up
00:43:48
and said what's going on here is anti-American and their their shareholder fiduciary ad kicks in and
00:43:56
goes, "Just cut him a check for 10 million and sell this bag of [ __ ] called
00:44:00
Paramount that's declining every [ __ ] day." Your thoughts? I think that that I
00:44:06
think she's doing untold damage to the to the brand. Whatever's left of it,
00:44:10
right? I I think it just she's literally selling the seed corn and I don't know
00:44:16
if she has a choice, but on the other end, she's going to get a bribery. Um eventually the Democrats will be back in
00:44:22
power and she will face that, right? And I don't think she's going to get out of
00:44:25
this. I think she's in a jam of beyond jams. So whatever choice she makes is a
00:44:31
bad one. Like every single choice. And what's interesting is the new owners, if
00:44:35
they really think this is a good idea, I can't imagine um they're going to be
00:44:39
they're sort of they have a tainted fruit, right? They have a a poison fruit
00:44:44
here because all these reporters are going to be now more difficult than ever. You have a brand. Maybe that brand
00:44:50
should end. I don't know if 60 Minutes should end. It's that's up to their
00:44:53
owners. Um, but they certainly are trading away any kind of um, credibility. I just there's no good
00:45:00
answer here for these people. I mean, and you're right, this is it doesn't
00:45:04
matter really because these these these media companies are worth less and less every year unless they make significant
00:45:11
changes. Um, so I guess a new owner might try something fresh, the new owners with lots of money. Um, so any
00:45:18
way you get there is a good way. Um, but it definitely is is disappointing on every level. Um, and as to Warner
00:45:24
Brothers Discovery, it's just not, you know, he's making a lot of money and the
00:45:28
company's still struggling to figure out which way to go. I would assume a lot of
00:45:32
mergers here presumably, correct? I mean, I don't know. Oh, there's got to
00:45:36
be huge consolidation. And I said Warner Brothers board is the worst board in America. They've managed to destroy so
00:45:42
two-thirds of shareholder value. uh their debt just got downgraded to junk and yet they've the compensation
00:45:48
committee at this board has decided to pay David Zazov a third of a billion dollars. I mean that's just Well,
00:45:53
they're doing that because it's based on the cutting of the debt, right? Is that
00:45:56
correct? That's why I'm sure that's how they rationalized it. But if No, it is.
00:46:00
That's I mean, Bill Cohen wrote a good piece about Okay, but fine. And the tail
00:46:05
will wag the dog here. Uh if that's the case, they should fire the guy because
00:46:11
it just is an affront to shareholders to be taking uh to be paying someone a third of a billion dollars when
00:46:18
shareholders have lost twothirds of their value. I I don't care what your compensation package was. You either
00:46:24
say, "Boss, we need to revisit your compensation package or we're going to
00:46:27
have to make a change in leadership." and the but just going back to Sher Redstone I don't I and I'm not a lawyer
00:46:34
but I don't see how she can be found guilty of saying look the president wanted we settle cases out of court all
00:46:43
the time because we decide that they're a nuisance and it's worth it just to
00:46:47
move on with our business and that's what we did here. So I think some of this notion that it's a quote unquote
00:46:52
bribe is a little bit of left-wing posturing. I don't think there's a legal
00:46:56
case against her. CEOs CEOs pay off lawsuits all the time to just move on. But going back um Well, can I just make
00:47:06
a point on that? They're still going to come at her. They're going to still the
00:47:09
bribery thing, whether it sticks or not, they're going to go for it. When you say
00:47:12
they, who do you mean? Who the the California or the Democrats or whatever, I think she's not she's going to be in
00:47:18
litigation for a very long time. I think they'll move on to bigger fish to fry.
00:47:22
Really interesting. Okay. I mean, I don't What do you do you think there's
00:47:25
really a case here? They settle suits all the time. Uh, I guess this one's particularly ridiculous. Like, it's
00:47:31
particularly like, you know, they're all somewhat ridiculous, but I suspect the
00:47:35
ABC one there was probably emails. There was probably embarrassments. In this case, it's just ridiculous. And with the
00:47:41
with these executives quitting, it's just not a good look. The whole thing is
00:47:45
it's just it brings down a brand unnecessarily. And I get they have to make weird contortions because of Trump,
00:47:51
but they're looking particularly bad. and the way they're behaving. Um, it
00:47:55
seems but if you look at all the points of light here or the path to an autotocracy or fascism or a kleptocracy,
00:48:02
pick your favorite, you know, oppressive form of government. It's try and put a
00:48:07
chill on the press right now. That's clear. And then the most recent one, let's let's try and normalize political
00:48:13
violence against our adversaries. I don't know if you saw most recently, but
00:48:16
Trump is talking about pardoning pardoning the people who planned plotted the kidnap kidnapping of Governor
00:48:21
Whitmer. And let's just remind people these quote unquote people he who he says were railroaded, they had a they
00:48:30
they set up a shooting room to practice the extraction. They had maps of the bridge to figure out how to sequester
00:48:37
her from her um security detail. So what is what how do you move to an autotocracy? You a use political power
00:48:47
to uh enrich yourself. You reward your enemies. Uh you punish your enemies unfairly. You refuse you normalize
00:48:54
violence against your political enemies and you create a chill across free press. I mean other than him standing up
00:49:01
and dressing like Putin. I mean, what is it we want before people are just going
00:49:07
to come out and say, "Okay, this guy uh really is uh, you know, an an autocrat
00:49:14
slash, you know, embracing very fascist ideals." Um, by the way, just back to
00:49:19
mental health, I found out that I don't know if you knew this, but I've been
00:49:22
participating over the last 30 years in this study on the relationship between sex and mental health. And I'm so
00:49:29
depressed, Cara, I found out that I've been part of the control group. On that note, she's not coming out good
00:49:37
looking good in this thing. Think about Paramount though. You know what defines America other than other than the
00:49:42
world's richest man killing the world's poorest children is the fact that the
00:49:46
three central figures in the Paramount deal are Sher Redstone, Edgar Brmpman, and David Ellison. What do they all have
00:49:53
in common? They're all the children of billionaires. The only people propping
00:49:57
up media right now are billionaire kids who want an excuse to hang out in LA, drive Porsches, and bang actresses, I
00:50:05
guess. Well, whatever. Which, by the way, I'm down for. If I had billions of
00:50:08
dollars, that's what I'd be doing, perhaps. Anyway, we'll see. I have to
00:50:12
tell you. Well, Mission Impossible is doing well. I don't know what to say. Anyway, good job. It all comes back to
00:50:19
to Mission Impossible. Um, if you although Lilo and Stitch is doing better, um, if you've got a question of
00:50:24
your own that you like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:50:29
the show or call 85551 pivot and listen up. We're going to be doing another call-in show soon. Submit your questions
00:50:35
and let us know uh you'd like to talk to what you'd like to talk to us about live
00:50:40
and the producers will be in touch. We like those shows. We think our listeners are so smart. Um, all right, Scott, one
00:50:46
more uh quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a
00:50:51
prediction. Okay, so my prediction is sort of a boring one, but Trump is feeling his oats around the macho steel
00:50:58
industry. He's he threatened to take tariffs from 25% to 50%. And as a result, um you've seen a surge in the
00:51:06
stock prices of our few remaining um steel manufacturers. Cleveland Cliffs jumped 22% which for a boring
00:51:14
manufacturing stock is enormous. Uh, Steel Dynamics jumped 13%, new core up 12%, VANX steel, ETX rose more uh, than
00:51:25
3%. And just that alone, there are few prosperity killers like a steel tariff. Because here's the thing, this is an
00:51:36
unimportant small industry. This is not a big business. It's not an important
00:51:40
business. And we can easily import steel from Mexico and Canada. We don't even
00:51:45
have to have the security risk of importing it in from China and importing it in from Japan which is a hugely
00:51:51
important ally of which our ships that we're worried about building actually
00:51:55
defend Japan. But we've decided this is super important and but what it will do
00:52:01
while actually supporting very few employees or growing the business a great deal. What it will do is raise the
00:52:07
cost of housing and cars dramatically. And by virtue of the fact of these companies that are sleepy companies,
00:52:14
when you see their stock price accelerate, it's based on the following. That these companies are going to be
00:52:18
able to charge us prices now that the tariffs are going from 25 to 50%. And folks, who do you think is going to pay
00:52:26
for that increase in stock price, consumers buying cars, consumers buying housing? So my prediction is as happened
00:52:35
with the taco trade coined by Financial Times journalist Robert Armstrong, you are going to see Trump back down on the
00:52:42
steel tariffs when he starts to recognize and gets calls from the many more people than the small union or the
00:52:49
small number of employees benefiting from the increase in these tariffs and the huge number of consumers, automobile
00:52:58
and and homebuilders that are going to get punished radically by he will back off the tariffs and we will see the
00:53:05
stocks of these companies return to their pre-tariff prices. In some my prediction is Cleveland Cliffs and Steel
00:53:12
Dynamics give up all the gains as evidenced by what has taken place with the taco trade thus far uh in 2025.
00:53:20
Well, we'll turn our attentions then also to that was a snoozer, wasn't it?
00:53:24
That's a snoozer. I was a snoozer. Why don't you yell at Piers Morgan again? A
00:53:28
snoozer. You used up all your juice on that one. That's what you did. That's
00:53:31
what I'm out. You're done. You're done. Can I call you an Uber? I'm going to
00:53:35
sleep. Why don't you go steel trade is depravity? There you go. Say depravity.
00:53:40
Yell depravity one more time for me. No, I won't. I can't. Sorry, Cara. I'm not
00:53:43
your I'm not your Fifi the dancing poodle here to entertain you. You eating your ice oysters on the bay talking
00:53:50
injecting jellyfish semen into your blood so you can look 61 again. I will not be a part of your circus of hell.
00:53:56
Okay. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe, this week on Prop G Markets, you spoke to Robert Armstrong, the US
00:54:03
financial commentator for the Financial Times, the person who coined Trump's
00:54:07
favorite phrase, taco trade, which is Trump always chickens out. Let's listen
00:54:10
to a clip. The best thing about the president's tariff policy is the chickening out. Hooray for chickening
00:54:20
out. I'm all for it and I hope that it may continue forever. So the idea that
00:54:26
I've made this stupid gag and I might actually at the margin make the president less likely to chicken out is
00:54:34
a very negative unintended consequence I wish if possible to wash my hands off of
00:54:41
that's funny chickening out. That's such a good word chicken. Um okay that's the
00:54:47
show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next
00:54:53
week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus,
00:54:57
Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Rad entry this episode. Thanks also to Jarro, Miss Aaro, and Dan Shalon. Nash
00:55:04
Kerwa as Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on
00:55:07
your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can
00:55:12
subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech
00:55:18
and business. Cara, have a good weekend. I'm rooting for the bullets.