00:00:00
Let me give a news flash to every pivot listener. Okay. Okay. News flash. Anybody close to Trump hates his guts.
00:00:11
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser and guess
00:00:17
what kicks off today? Scottree August. [Music] That's right. It's the first week of Scot-free August when the dogs away and
00:00:30
the jungle cat gets to experiment with a bunch of different co-hosts. And today I'm with the one and only Anthony Scaramucci Mooch uh the mooch, a lawyer,
00:00:41
podcaster, founder, and managing partner at Skybridge Capital. And you remember uh that he did a quick 11-day stint in
00:00:48
the White House during President Trump's first term. But that's in the past, actually. I I don't think about that as much. Anthony, welcome.
00:00:54
All right. Well, I'm very I'm very flattered. I appreciate that you you're never invited into my apartment or my
00:01:00
kitchen. Carara, you'll have to stay in the living room when you come over. I just want to make sure you know that.
00:01:06
No, I'm going to look through all your things in your That was incredible. That was A+ trolling car.
00:01:12
I was in He's referring to a video of me in Scott's apartment looking through his things, which I do constantly.
00:01:17
And if I came to your apartment, I'd be right up in your medicine chest, just so you know. Yes. And you would you would learn that
00:01:22
I have a lot of skin products. Uhhuh. Okay. Lots of moisturizer shrimp semen. What do you have? What is your
00:01:28
No, I don't No, I haven't gone into that yet. I I probably should talk to some of the actresses about that. But no, I just
00:01:34
general stuff. Retina, retina, and things like that. All right. Well, what would be the craziest thing I would find in your
00:01:40
closet? H the man there's too many cra I mean the craziest thing that you would find
00:01:45
in my closet is the original hood from Batman the 1966 uh television series with Adam West with Adam West. Yeah. I p
00:01:58
you know I'm a I'm a superhero kid. You I grew up with comics and superheroes and was four or five years old when he
00:02:05
was on TV and I thought he was hip and cool. Um I used to own the Batmobile. Uh, I
00:02:11
had I I owned the Batman Returns Batmobile, the one where uh Danny DeVito played the Penguin and Michael Keaton uh was in the movie with uh Michelle Feifer. She was the cowboy.
00:02:23
I know this. What What do you mean you owned it? Where did you put it? Uh you have to store Well, that was the big issue. So, I had it uh for many
00:02:30
years. It cost a lot of money to store it. Lots of What did it cost to buy? What did it cost to buy? So, that car is probably worth about $3
00:02:36
million now. I bought the car for 150 and I sold it Yeah. 150,000. This is 20 years ago. I sold it for 300. Uh but if I kept it, it
00:02:48
was a little It would have been a great investment, but you know what? I didn't keep it. And uh life goes on. But I Did you drive it?
00:02:54
Uh yes, I did. Yeah. It's on It's on an F150 frame. It does not drive well, frankly.
00:03:01
There's a little propane tank in the back. Uh it's not registered. You can't insure
00:03:06
it. It's a show car, but there is a there is a button that you can click and it shoots the propane flame out of the
00:03:12
battery. That sounds dangerous. That sounds very dangerous. You know, if you're an overgrown 12-year-old, it's one of the funnest
00:03:18
things you can own. Can I ask you a personal question? Do you put on that outfit? The bat. Did you
00:03:23
get it dry cleaned? Yeah. I'm going to bring my wife on the podcast. She'll let you know. I I chase her around in the bedroom with the hood
00:03:29
and the cape. I actually don't do that, but I wish I wish I did that, but I don't do that. Yeah. You know what I love most? I like
00:03:35
when he used to dance. You didn't buy the Robin outfit. You didn't do that. I didn't buy the Robin outfit. No, I
00:03:40
Bert Ward was obviously a very colorful, fun guy, but I I uh I identified more with the aloof Batman.
00:03:47
All right. When I come over, you're putting that thing on and we're having some fun. We're having some fun. I don't know what we're going to do. Definitely hiding that from you.
00:03:53
No way. That is so Now that I know. Anyway, uh I'm so thrilled you're here. There's so much to talk to you about,
00:03:59
but we've got tons to get to, including MAGA's war chest, which is huge. uh nuclear submarines and the latest on the
00:04:05
Epstein saga. I'm excited to hear what you have to say. But first, Democratic members of the Texas House of
00:04:10
Representatives have fled the state in an attempt to stop Republicans from adopting a redrawn congressional map.
00:04:16
Republican state legislature has been pushing for a map that flips five Democratic congressional districts in favor of Republicans. Governor Greg
00:04:23
Abbott called the Democratic uh the departure of the Democrats an abandonment of or forfeite of an elected
00:04:28
state office, saying he would take steps to remove the missing Democrats if they don't return. Uh and then of course a
00:04:35
lot of Democratic governors, including Gavin Newsome, are threatening to do the same in their states. Thoughts on this
00:04:41
strategy? Terrible terrible strategy. They should get together and declare a dant
00:04:49
statewide dance. uh uh people like you and me, it's very important for us uh to explain to the American people what they're doing. Okay? Gerrymandering everybody is when the politician picks
00:05:01
the voter. In a liberal democracy, the voter is supposed to pick the politician. And so these guys have
00:05:06
totally corrupted the system. Uh the Republicans did this better than the Democrats early on. There was something
00:05:12
called Operation Red Map. Cara, you probably remember that. They went into the state and local legislators. the
00:05:18
Koch family was big big donors to this and they influence the local elections to get the local elections to redistrict
00:05:26
the congressional districts. Trump is looking at the map and he's thinking to himself, I'm going to lose the house. Uh
00:05:32
I'm not a popular president. He's below 40%. Uh I'm going to lose the house. He calls up Governor Abbott. It says, I
00:05:38
need five Republican congressional seats. Uh and this will cause an escalation of complete nonsense. You and
00:05:46
I both know that the American leaders were once public servants. We're now in the age of public selfervants.
00:05:54
They're serving themselves and they're and they're doing terrible things to the American people. And this is an example
00:05:59
of that. So what happens here? What is the game? If if if they do this and they get these
00:06:04
Democratic legislators back, they can't take them out of office. Or maybe they can in Texas. They probably can. No, but
00:06:10
they'll re they they'll get them back to force the vote and cause the redistricting, which is legal and is
00:06:17
allowable to cause the redistricting of the of the districts, which will allow more Republicans on a percentage basis into those districts. And then the Democrats will probably lose those House
00:06:29
seats. And so Nuome is saying, "Okay, I can do that. There's some Republican districts here in California. Let me get
00:06:35
the chainsaw out and let me redistrict." And so, uh, I mean, this is something people should know. That is what's been
00:06:42
going on for about 150 years. Uh, very very bad. We we we we would need a constitutional amendment, frankly, to end gerrymandering. Maybe AI could pick the districts, make the districts flat,
00:06:55
make the districts even. It would cut the extremist in the society, but it would also end the in redundancy of
00:07:02
incumbency. Right. Okay. So, that's what's going If Abbott does this, should Nuome do the same
00:07:08
thing? Just Well, he will do it. No. No. So, if Abbott does it in New York, he will definitely do it and then you'll have an
00:07:14
escalation and you'll have a you'll have an escalating war. You're asking me if he should.
00:07:20
In a normative world, they should deescalate. They should cut the nonsense. They're not serving the
00:07:25
American people. But, you know, there's something that someday we're all going to have to write about. Uh maybe you and I won't be here.
00:07:32
I don't know. But 50 years from now, someone will write, "What the hell? How did this orange spray tanned maniac get
00:07:41
a hold of one of these parties like this where everybody is crippled with moral weakness, moral depravity and just literally allowing him to do whatever the hell he wants. Uh, and he and he
00:07:54
laughs at these. I know the guy. So when they're kissing his ass, Cara, he's laughing at them, right? you know, he's picking up the phone. He's calling his friend Car Swisser say, "Can you believe
00:08:05
Governor Abbott is actually willing to do this for me?" Yeah. You know, he's doing that, right? So, speaking of which, he he said he
00:08:11
planned to appoint a new commissioner for the Bureau of Labor Statistics over the next three or four days. He fired the head of the agency last week
00:08:18
following a jobs report that showed weak hiring in July, a major downward revisions to jobs created in May and
00:08:23
June. These revisions happen all the time, by the way. Trump called the jobs numbers phony and rigged, his favorite
00:08:28
two words, uh, and offered no evidence except my opinion. His economic adviser, Kevin Hasset, who's quite a minion,
00:08:35
defended the move in an interview with Kristen Welker on Meet the Press. Let's listen. Is the president prepared to fire anyone
00:08:42
who reports data that he disagrees with? No, absolutely not. The president wants his own people there so that when we see
00:08:48
the numbers, uh, they're more transparent and more reliable. And if there are big changes and big revisions,
00:08:54
uh we expect more big revisions for the jobs data in September, for example, then we want to know why. We want people
00:08:59
to explain it to us. Yeah, they need to be explained to. We've seen this firing regune from Trump many times as you well know. Um but is
00:09:06
he taking it to a whole new level here? Your thoughts on this because this you you and your Wall Street pals must be
00:09:11
freaked out by this one. Well, I mean you listen I I don't think I don't think anybody on Wall Street's
00:09:17
freaked out anymore. I mean, that was a freakout moment in 2018. And in this moment, now you're going to expect anything from Donald Trump. You may remember this is sort of obscure now,
00:09:27
but Jack Welch, the very high-profile CEO of GE, questioned the job reports numbers under the Obama administration once. And so, this is a political tactic. Uh, I find those statistics,
00:09:40
like the CBO, to be very nonpartisan. The numbers are the numbers. Uh I will say that they can be antiquated though car you know like you know the the cliche statistics are lies there are
00:09:53
damn lies and then there are statistics we can make statistics look any way that we want and so I I don't think it's the
00:10:00
right thing to do to to do that he would be better advised to say okay how are we
00:10:06
getting this data now and can this data be sourced better and sourced in real time given all the great technology we have in the country to make the data a little bit less laggy and a little bit
00:10:18
more accurate uh in real time. And so he's not going to do that. But here's the irony and I push this back to you
00:10:24
for a second. Uh this data supports a rate cut. And so he's railing on Jerome Pal. I
00:10:32
what I don't understand is why didn't he take the data and say this is purely voracious data. It's absolutely
00:10:39
accurate. And this more emphasizes that the Federal Reserve chair uh and the board there is on the wrong side of where rates are. And so so why didn't he, you know, it's it's an interesting
00:10:50
question because I think his knee-jerk reaction was, "Oh the economy is doing way worse than it did under Joe
00:10:57
Biden." And of course, I can't let my minions because these people will believe anything I say, can shoot people
00:11:03
on Fifth Avenue, deny him on the Epstein list. I can do all these different things. And so let me keep the narrative
00:11:08
going that there's another conspiracy a foot and that they're lying about the statistics because it's an Obama/Biden
00:11:17
legacy appointee in their group in there doing the statistics. But he would have been better served actually to say,
00:11:23
"Hey, this is accurate. Where is Jerome Pal? Why is he not cutting rates?" Because Trump clearly wants a rate cut
00:11:29
for various different reasons. So right so that that that's the irony there. I'm surprised it didn't go in that direction
00:11:34
here that would satis will Wall Street freak out about this or not at all. I don't I don't think so. I think I
00:11:41
think Wall Street has said to themselves and this is the weird thing about Wall Street. Wall Street says that this guy's
00:11:47
gone in three and a half years. Uh but I submit back to Wall Street, do you know
00:11:52
anybody that builds a $200 million ballroom onto their house and then moves out in three and a half years? I'm just
00:11:59
pointing that out to people. a guy's making expansive renovations to the White House. Doesn't smell like a guy
00:12:04
that wants to leave anytime soon. So, I think we're going to be up for a potential fight there. But, I think Wall
00:12:09
Street looks at this and says, "Okay, this guy's leaving in three and a half years. There'll be a cleanup on aisle 7.
00:12:14
He's breaking all the pickle jars at the local supermarket. There'll be a cleanup. There'll either be a Democrat
00:12:20
that comes in or a non-personality cult member because I do believe this is a personality cult and it will die off with Trump. someone else will come in and be a little bit more normal. Won't
00:12:32
be able to g get away with the nonsense that Trump is getting away with. And so Wall Street's like, "Okay, we can live
00:12:38
with this for three and a half years. Tariffs are ridiculous." Guys like Jamie Diamond are saying, "So far so good."
00:12:44
But, you know, they're mumbling in the back room saying, "What a disaster." uh uh you know Jason Ferman actually had
00:12:50
a great piece in the New York Times over the weekend describing that the tariffs are not going to put a cause a great
00:12:56
recession or a potential depression but they are slowing down the economy and they are slowing down capital allocation decisions in the economy and it's frankly starting to show up in the data.
00:13:08
So uh you know this is the again the MAGA narrative is ho ho ho still got a strong economy despite our tariffs but the real narrative should be no the tariffs haven't fully kicked in yet
00:13:20
right so speaking of that he's continuing his mission to upend global trade he launched a new round of tariffs targeting over 60 US trading partners
00:13:27
and set take effect August 7th they keep moving the these dates these tariffs range from about 10% to 40% Canada is at
00:13:34
35% India is at 25% which Trump says he's going to Greece because India is buying oil from Russia and somewhat
00:13:41
inexplicably Switzerland is at 39%. He's already signaling more tariffs to come including pharmaceuticals,
00:13:47
semiconductors and critical minerals. The markets initially fell on the tariff news as well as in the jobs report they
00:13:52
seem to have rebounded as Monday morning. Um, as you say, they're just they're just sort of a wait and see kind
00:13:58
of thing or or are they is Wall Street actually concerned even if they're trashing? I think Wall Street thinks that all of this stuff ends up at about 10%. Possibly 15. Uh, terrible but
00:14:13
tolerable. I think that's how Wall Street looks at it. I don't think that 39% number that you're referencing in
00:14:19
Switzerland is going to stick. I think that's a remnant number from April 2nd. You remember when he came down, you
00:14:26
know, he's like orange Moses coming down from Mount Evil with the tablet. You know, he's like walking in. No one knows
00:14:32
what the hell he's talking about. I think that's one of those things that's like left over uh the 39% and I think that's going to
00:14:38
get reversed. I know the the Swiss government is frantic about getting that reversed. They're working on it right
00:14:45
now and I think that will I think these things settle out 10 to 15. Uh the person that's handled Trump
00:14:51
better than anybody my opinion is Mark Carney. Mark Carney has held the ground there. Uh there's no way that the American economy can have a 35% uh
00:15:02
reciprocal tariff with Canada. It's just not not not sustainable. You'll you'll knock you'll knock everybody out of
00:15:08
business. You know, you have lobster men that are buying they're they're catching lobster in US waters, but they're
00:15:14
sending it across the border to have it processed in Canadian processing fans and then sent back. So you'll you'll
00:15:21
knock the price up 70% in terms of the way the tariffs work. You'll put everybody out of business. You hurt the
00:15:27
restaurant industry, which most businesses have been absorbing until now, right? They've been
00:15:32
Look at the Look at the GM print. GM lost a billion dollars by absorbing the cost. But you know who isn't absorbing
00:15:38
it car is uh Las Vegas. Las Vegas not absorbing it because they've lost the Canadian tourists. They've lost the UK tourists. They've lost the guys coming
00:15:49
in from Australia that used to gamble and go crazy in Las Vegas. uh you have no tax on tips, but you have a 50%
00:15:56
reduction in revenue for the people that are receiving the tips. So, so Trump's nonsense, his rhetoric has really hurt
00:16:04
tourism. I mean, there's an estimate of about 80 to 90 billion of tourist revenues that have been lost in the US.
00:16:11
And so, and so rhetoric matters when you're the president. These tariffs though, Wall Street again saying 10 to
00:16:17
15%, somebody smart will come in and revise these things. Now, who who's smart? Who in that administration? I know you probably are not a Lutnick fan would be my guess.
00:16:29
Well, you mean Howard Butnick? Butlick. Nutn Nutlick. You allowed to say Nutlick
00:16:34
on the loud. Whatever. Coward. Coward Nutlick. Is that what you're talking about? Is that who we're talking about?
00:16:40
That's who I'm talking about. I mean, you know, the guy's unbeliev I mean, and I I know Howard a long time.
00:16:45
Yeah, I bet. But Howard, if you said to me, there's a picture in the dictionary of PTOIC fever.
00:16:53
Mhm. Okay. It would be Howard Lutnik. Okay. PTOIC fever. I'm in the mix. I'm driving around in
00:17:00
the Secret Service van. I'm an important guy. I'm an important guy. The phone calls are coming in and I'm going to have this
00:17:06
very smug, arrogant, jerkoff smile on television every time I'm talking. I'm going to be pedantic and I'm going to be
00:17:13
demeaning to the interviewers. I mean I mean come on I don't know what you took the wrong pill. The side
00:17:20
effects of PTOIC fever are are career ruining. Uh and he's he's heading in that direction. He should really calm down and get a grounding wire up his ass. Calm himself down a little bit.
00:17:32
Who do you like there? Who do you think? Besson. Yeah, I like Kevin's a good guy. Hazard's a very smart guy. He's
00:17:39
reasonable guy. He steered the president away from some of the really bad things. Bes Bessent or how you pronounce his
00:17:46
name, I know Scott a long time. Uh I think he is a person if you talk to the Wall Street guys that really know him, he's blocked Trump on a few things. Uh even to the point where I think he said,
00:17:58
you know, I can't do this. Uh and so you may have to find somebody else. Of course, Trump capitulates when you tell
00:18:04
him that, particularly somebody like Bent where he needs him. Uh remember something about Treasury. Trump doesn't
00:18:10
give a about Treasury. Uh Trump wants the trains to run on time. He wants the bills for the American
00:18:15
government to be paid and he wants the taxes collected. The places he really cares about are justice. That's a place he really cares about. Secretary of
00:18:26
State and Secretary of Defense. Okay. So, it's very important to him that he has full-on sickance and those roles,
00:18:34
right? Uh but Bet he's smart enough to know that he needs somebody that Wall Street is going to accept
00:18:41
and of course you know uh it's been reported so it's worth talking about. Jamie Diamond is now in direct
00:18:47
That's correct conversations with the president and he's a very moderate guy and he's trying to guide the president towards
00:18:54
doing things that are less stupid frankly. That's what he's there for. Yeah, that was an interesting I was like oh I see.
00:19:00
I like Jamie. He's probably the smartest of all of us. He's probably giving very
00:19:05
good advice to him and and and Trump probably looks up to him in a weird way or in some level uh has not respect but
00:19:12
just is probably thinks he's smarter than him and so we'll listen to him. So one of the things though that doesn't feel too smart speaking of State
00:19:18
Department, he's ordered two US nuclear subs to reposition near Russia just in case. That move was in response to a
00:19:25
series of fiery social media posts from former Russian President Medved. Medvev warned in one post that each new ultimatum Trump issues over the Ukraine is a threat and a step towards war. And
00:19:38
the Kremlin has responded to Trump's move saying, "We believe everyone should be very careful about new legal
00:19:43
rhetoric." I would agree with that. Trump is also threatening sanctions unless Russia ends the war by August
00:19:48
8th, which is ne the end of this week. Uh but Putin has dismissed pressure for a ceasefire. Talk about what he's doing here from your perspective. Well, I mean saber rattling. I don't
00:19:59
think I don't think it's it's a much to do about nothing. I think it's a good news story. It shows his base that he
00:20:06
has some muscularity. The Iranian hit showed some muscularity. His base likes that. Why he is threatening them when he spent his almost both administrations sucking
00:20:17
up to them is really interesting to me. Why now? Why here? Why Well, he doesn't have Well, well, okay.
00:20:23
I can answer that. So, so what's happening to Trump is that the the lame duck clock is ticking.
00:20:29
Uh, he's 18 months away from being a full-on lame duck. And there's a little bit of flex by some of the conservative
00:20:36
Republicans that are for Democratic freedoms. And there's also some institutional memory in the Congress,
00:20:42
particularly the Senate, related to the security guarantees that President Clinton signed in 1994 when the Ukraine
00:20:50
government gave up their nukes in exchange for these security guarantees. So there are a group of
00:20:55
institutionalists in McConnell's theun that have gone to Trump and said, "Hey, you you're you're not being tough enough. You've gota you got to help these guys more. can have a defeated
00:21:08
Ukraine government at this point. And so Trump is under the gun. He's afraid of Putin. I think we have to state that
00:21:15
publicly. Uh I always tell people if the windows open, Cara, and you hear clippity clap, it's it's a horse. It's
00:21:22
not a zebra. You got to look at the obvious. They've got something on him that scares the living out of him.
00:21:29
And he won't move against Putin. And you'd have to say to yourself, well, Putin's got a declining country. his GDP
00:21:35
now is 14% smaller than Italy. Uh he's got a failed defense department or war department. Just look at what's going on there. Uh and so how could a very rich man, which Trump is, who runs the
00:21:48
largest military and arguably one of the most powerful nations in the history of the world, be cowtowing to Vladimir
00:21:55
Putin? And the answer is they got something on him. And they got something on him that scares the living daylights
00:22:01
out of yet he rattles the sabers here. Why? Just for because he has to because I know Trump's personality. So he's a great
00:22:08
compartmentalist. He's got pressure on him from these congressional leaders. And so he has to do something.
00:22:14
But he never does the thing. He'll say 50 days. He'll say 10 days. He'll say 22 days. But he never never
00:22:23
does it because he's so afraid of Putin. You know, he could he could bitchlap Putin super hard. He could send those high mars. He could send more Patriot batteries. He could get permission to
00:22:36
launch a few ICBMs into Russia from Ukraine territory. He could do all those things and it would probably collapse the Putin government and it would probably cause a
00:22:48
replacement of Vladimir Putin. Of course, we'd have to worry about that from an intelligence perspective. There could be harder right radicals. Maybe we
00:22:55
don't want Putin necessarily replaced as much as we want him contained. But there's a lot of things that Trump could
00:23:01
do. He's not willing to do them because he's scared of Vladimir Putin. Yeah, they're using words like that. Okay, Anthony, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's super PAC ras in the cash and we'll talk
00:23:13
Epstein as well. Support for the show comes from Framer. Kids today, they never understand what we went through back in the day. Building a website, for instance, used to be a lot of time and a
00:23:25
lot of money, so you only did it if you could afford the overhead and really needed it. Nowadays, there are incredible tools like Framer that can
00:23:31
build the website of your dreams fast. No coding required. Framer is a design first, no code website builder that lets
00:23:38
anyone ship a product ready site in minutes. That means you have the freedom to build a website that is professional,
00:23:43
polished, and uniquely yours. No code and no compromises. Built-in AI will handle the heavy lifting by generating
00:23:49
starter layouts and then coding behind the scenes. You'll be able to AB test your design, set up funnels, see exactly
00:23:55
where people click, all from one place. Ready to build a site that looks handcoded without hiring a developer?
00:24:01
Launch your site for free at framer.com and use the code pivot to get your first month of pro on the house. That's
00:24:07
framer.com promo code pivot. framer.com promo code pivot. Rules and restrictions
00:24:13
apply. Anthony, we're back. Mega Inc. uh Donald Trump's main super PAC is currently sitting on a war chest of nearly $200 million according to a new FEC filing.
00:24:25
Donors include Elon Musk, who gave $15 million to MAGA and the other GOP packs just weeks after his spat with Trump,
00:24:31
venture capitalist Mark Anderson, who's always creepily around the basket, and Tik Tok
00:24:38
investor Jeffrey Yas. Contributions also came in from crypto executives, an energy, which makes sense to me, an
00:24:44
energy company, and a mother seeking a pardon for her son who got one. A spokes uh spokeswoman for Maga, Inc. rejected
00:24:51
claims that the donations were exchanged for access saying Trump quote cannot be bought and the works and works toward
00:24:57
the best interest of the country. Uh it feels pay to play to me. New York Times had a pretty devastating piece about
00:25:03
that. Um but does the money go towards helping Republicans in the midterms or is Trump really considering that uh
00:25:09
third term which you referenced just a second ago? Well, I think you have to take Trump seriously about him wanting a
00:25:17
third term, and I think you have to take Steve Bannon seriously about him running for a third term. Now, up against that,
00:25:23
he'll be 82 years old. It looks like he does have some vascular issues. I mean, they've reported that, so let's say that that's probably true. And he's got an unsteady gate, and he is he's getting
00:25:33
older. Uh, but I I don't think a guy like him leaves power easily. I just don't think that. And so I hope that and I hope that uh my
00:25:45
buddies who are institutionalists in Washington say that that's the last stand for them. Uh that they will fight
00:25:51
that tooth and nail. Those are Republicans saying that who I'm still a donor to several of these Republican senators. But I don't I don't know. I
00:25:59
you have to take him literally and seriously when he's thinking about these things. Uh I don't think that money goes
00:26:05
to lots of people in the midterms. Trump is for Trump. He's not for other people. He doesn't give a And so I think
00:26:12
this is something very smart that he's done though and I think people should understand this. He's not a traditional
00:26:18
politician. A traditional politician, an Obama, a George W. Bush stops raising money in their second term, right, for
00:26:26
their own packs. He didn't do that. And I think he's now setting a precedent for future politicians to not do that
00:26:33
because that will give him, let's say he was a normal politician. Oh, I got leverage now in the system long after
00:26:39
I'm lame duck and I can pick and choose who I'm going to give this money to in different congressional races. I don't
00:26:45
think Trump's going to do that. Trump will figure out a way to use that money. And this is what Trump is doing with the
00:26:51
corruption. You know, uh I think the the pardons are going up now probably $und00 million now for a pardon. I think you
00:26:57
they started at the $3 to5 million level and Trump should just put out a retail price list, you know, say, "Look, here's here's the list for all the that you can get from me." You know, you want to come out dinner with me, you're a
00:27:08
crypto guy, 5 million. You want a pardon now? It's got to be 100 million. Cuz you didn't go to that dinner, did you?
00:27:13
Did you go to that dinner? No, I haven't I haven't seen or been around Trump. You want to know the last
00:27:19
time I talked to Trump? What? When? That was It was April. It was Easter Sunday. uh April of 2019, he called me.
00:27:28
I thought he was calling me to wish me a happy Easter, but he wasn't. He was calling me to lay into me because I had
00:27:34
written an article that said that it was an open letter to the president. The press is not the enemy of the people.
00:27:41
Stop saying that. The press is there to protect the people, but it's also the font of our financial innovation. You
00:27:47
and I have talked about this. Being able to speak freely in a society, you teach second grade children that they can
00:27:53
speak freely. they go on and become Caris Swisser or they create a Facebook or they create an iPhone. Uh other
00:27:59
countries that don't do that, they have to steal our technology. And Trump got really pissed at me, laid into me
00:28:06
and he and he told me that I was deep stater and some other that he said. And that was the last time he spoke. So
00:28:11
no, I haven't been around Trump since. Happy Easter. Yeah, happy Easter. What do you say when someone says that?
00:28:17
Okay, I disagree and I think you're being wrong. I think you're wrong. I think history is going to judge what I'm
00:28:22
saying to be more right than you, right? And then he more or less abruptly hung up the phone. Oh wow.
00:28:28
By but I got in the happy Easter. By the way, he did he did the rightly say happy Easter back to me.
00:28:33
He's a miserable dude. You know, he's a miserable dude. Let me give a news flash to every pivot listener. Okay.
00:28:38
Okay. News flash. Anybody close to Trump hates his guts. Okay. If you're in Trump's orbit, you're
00:28:44
in the first electron orbit. Laura Loomer seems to like him. Who does? Laura Loomer. Laura Loomer seems to
00:28:51
you know I think Laura's not in the I don't think she's in the first electron orbit I'm talking about you got to be in
00:28:56
the first electron orbit you're Melania Trump you move out of the goddamn white house you know you got to get if you're
00:29:04
Ivanka and Jared you got to stay away because he eviscerated Jared after the Abraham Accord thing and so you got to
00:29:11
get out of his electron orbit but if you're in the vortex of the orbit General Kelly orbit
00:29:17
HR McMaster You pick the person, they hate the guy's guts. Uh because they see how malevolent of a
00:29:24
guy he is. They see how dishonest and how ruthless he is and and that that rubs off on you,
00:29:29
Cara Swisser. If you're sitting around it too long, you start toxic. Sounds like it. Speaking of Speaking of toxic,
00:29:36
let's do a quick rundown of latest happenings with the Epstein saga, which I predicted would continue, and it is.
00:29:41
Uh Charlemagne the God suggested the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein information is causing a political coup among Republicans on Fox
00:29:48
News. Trump reacted on Truth Social, saying the radio host knows nothing. Gelain Maxwell has been moved to a
00:29:54
minimum security prison camp in Texas against sexual offenders aren't allowed there, but she has been allowed. And
00:30:01
Republicans are still split on which side to take as polling shows almost 80% of Trump voters in favor of releasing
00:30:08
the files. I I have not talked to you about this. um thoughts on what's happening and how long it lasts because
00:30:14
everyone felt it was a distraction. I never did because it's at the core of QAnon. It's at the core of the deep
00:30:19
state stuff and he himself has has fed these toxic creatures uh for far too long for them to just give up. Well, I I think he's going to survive
00:30:31
this, too. I mean, maybe I'm on the other side of this trade than you. I think he survives it. Well, I think he survives it. I just think it's damaging. That's what
00:30:37
Well, I think I think it's damaging. And maybe Charlemagne's right. It sets up a 26
00:30:42
divergence. Meaning I there could be conservative Republicans that say I'm MAGA light or I'm a little less MAGA.
00:30:50
I'm MAGA without Taylor Green doing it constantly. Yeah, maybe I'm MAGA without pedophilia. I don't know. That could be a good
00:30:55
bumper sticker. I don't you know I'm I'm you know I'm I'm 18 plus. I'm not 14 and
00:31:02
below. These disgusting sons of But but Trump is, you know, he's where there's smoke, there's fire. Okay? You can't see him with Epstein. The letter
00:31:13
has got Trump so crazed because the letter plus the doodling on the letter is implying something that Trump does not want out there in the marketplace, which is why he's put a $10 billion
00:31:26
speed bump together against Rupert Murdoch and his in News Corp. But, you know, and Rupert doesn't give a
00:31:31
You know, Rupert hates Trump like everybody else, and his attitude is, "I'm 94, have at it. Let me drop a few
00:31:38
more bombs on you. We have the bombs." Okay. So, now again, you have to tell me if there's something unthinkably nefarious. I'm not going to say what it is, but you know what it is, and your
00:31:49
viewers and listeners know what it is. If that comes out and it's in incontrovertible, it's not AI generated.
00:31:56
It's not any of that. It's incontrovertible evidence of something unthinkably nefarious. Is that enough to
00:32:02
remove Trump? I think you think it is. I just think that he never get, you know, oh, the McCain thing is going to ruin him. Doesn't ruin him. Oh, we're going to grab him by the, you know what,
00:32:13
in the in the bus with Billy Bush. No, it doesn't. Nothing hurts Trump. Mhm. It could damage him. the insurrection. Yeah, the insurrection. I mean, to get people are dying. He fermented the
00:32:26
violence. They have him on tape doing it. They had his former chief of staff. Uh, basically was going to be their key witness. He wins the election. I think we should stipulate for the pivot
00:32:37
people, he's one of the luckiest son of a on the planet. Every time he flips the coin, it comes up his way. So,
00:32:44
you know, I don't I don't think he gets knocked out by this, but I do think that
00:32:49
just Galain thing is interesting. See, so the Galain thing is like, okay, let me send my lawyer who I trust. Hey, let
00:32:57
me knock on the Gain, are you there? Hello, are you there? Okay, listen. I know you know a lot of bad stuff. Keep your mouth shut. We're going to move you to a minimum security prison. We're
00:33:09
going to make it easier for you. You listening? And then in about 6 months when this blows over, we're going to
00:33:16
commute your sentence or we're going to give you work relief or we're going to do something for you, but you got to
00:33:22
keep your mouth shut. It's a it's a great mob move. They're doing it right out in the open like the way the KGB
00:33:28
would do it. So, it's keep your mouth shut cuz if she starts to just tell on Democrats, that's a problem, too. Correct.
00:33:34
No, no, no. You got to keep your mouth shut. You got to keep your mouth shut because because as us Italians, you and me know
00:33:40
as you got to keep your mouth shut. That's like a full-on Sicilian move. The code of silence. And uh and by the way,
00:33:47
with Omera, you keep your mouth shut. We're going to take Remember, when a mobster went to jail, keep your mouth shut. We're going to take care of your
00:33:53
family and they're going to get vig from our operations to take care of your sons and daughters and your wife. And when
00:33:58
you come out of jail, we're going to get you a job. Now, you could end up like Sylvester Stallone in Oklahoma, but you're going to get a job, right? And
00:34:05
so, so that's what it is and that's what Trump and Todd Blanch are trying to do. I think that's pretty obvious. And but
00:34:11
this is the thing that makes me laugh. You know, John Thun, you're an American jellyfish. I mean,
00:34:16
you should write, you write such great books like burn book and like that. You should write the American jellyfish,
00:34:22
you know, starring John Thoon and Mitch McConnell starring, you know, the American jellyfishes. What are you guys doing? You're really this big of cowards. You got a guy that's morally
00:34:33
depraved. He's bringing down your party. He's a millstone on the morality of the
00:34:39
American people. We always like when you and I were growing up, we like to think of America in our
00:34:45
patriotism as benevolent and generous and goodnatured America that was going to help other nations. And now we have this morally depraved lunatic in the
00:34:57
White House that's stealing our thunder and is reducing our soft power all over the world. Okay, which is never a good thing for a superpower. By the way, you can go throughout 5,000 years of history
00:35:08
and know that's never a good thing. Uh and yet he's doing that. We're allowing him to do that because we got a
00:35:14
bunch of bozos that are supposed to check him, the American jellyfishes. Uh what are you guys doing? And the answer is no. We're going to wait Trump out. Wait him out. We're so afraid of him and
00:35:25
we're afraid of his MAGA base. Yeah. So why when when do they turn there? Is there a Scott?
00:35:31
Well, the midterm that's that's why Trump has got all that money in the war chest. You know, he he knows they're coming for him in the midterms. Uh you
00:35:39
know, you remember that scene in the Wizard of Oz where the witch gets accidentally hit by the water bucket and
00:35:46
she starts melting. It's actually like an orange witch, though. He's not really like the green wish, but he's like an
00:35:51
orange wicked witch of the West Wing. The water's about to hit Trump. Okay. And that's like a November 2026
00:35:59
water hit. And as he starts to melt, these guys, oh, you know, we we didn't mean this or oh, we didn't realize this
00:36:05
or oh, we're sorry about that. If he melts, if in fact water hits, like, let me let me say this to you. I
00:36:11
want you to really think about this. Okay. All right. They're running around saying they're going to arrest Clinton,
00:36:16
Hillary Clinton. They're going to arrest Barack Obama. Okay. It's all contraindicated from an intelligence
00:36:23
report that the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Marco Rubio, signed off on, which was irrefutable that everything that they're saying is not true. Why are they doing that?
00:36:35
They're doing that to distract you. They're doing that to rev up the MAGA base. They're look they're doing that to
00:36:41
say don't look at the man behind the curtain that's flapping behind the curtain. Focus on this which is
00:36:49
important to you. Obama is bad. There's underlying racism to that. By the way, I
00:36:54
think you know that honestly I just don't think it works. I don't think it works. I think the Epstein stuff is much No, it hasn't
00:36:59
hasn't worked yet. He's he's he's tried with the Washington commanders and the Cleveland Guardian Indians. He's
00:37:07
now going at it with the young woman who was in the Jean commercial. I think her name was Sydney Sweeney.
00:37:14
And yeah, so he's definitely trying stuff, you know. He's a Remember, he's the Napoleon of the culture war.
00:37:20
Like the the best thing that Trump has going for him are the Democrats. Yeah. Because he knows how to drop a bomb on
00:37:26
the battlefield and they run towards it and then he's doing something over here. You know, he's master of deflection.
00:37:32
All right, we're going to get to that now. Next, actually, um, we're going to go on a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the Corporation for Public Broadcasting as
00:37:39
it winds down operations because there are very real repercussions to everything he's doing with these distractions. Anthony, we're back with
00:37:46
more news. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting says it will begin winding down operations following an over $1 billion cut in federal funding. The
00:37:53
move, it's not a very big, it's about 100 people. The move will, what they do is they distribute funds out to local
00:37:59
stations, a lot of them rural, by the way. The move will severely impact local operations of PBS and NPR. Both NPR and
00:38:06
PBS say they're committed to maintaining service after the closure. The CPB told employees most positions will be
00:38:12
eliminated on September 30th. Um this is a loss of uh local news in rural communities. Uh this is a closing not of the big NPR stations or not of PBS
00:38:22
stations, but the small ones um which provide all kinds of news and other things like that and places that don't
00:38:28
have them. Um, and I'm going to link it with uh institutions worried about losing funding. The Smithsonian will
00:38:34
restore information about President Trump's impeachments after removing a placard on the topic in July. This was
00:38:39
reported by the Washington Post. The museum says the placard was removed after a review of legacy content which was demanded by the Trump administration
00:38:46
and was meant to be a temporary addition to a 25-year ex exhibition. The exhibition in question notes that only
00:38:52
three uh presidents have seriously faced removal. Andrew Johnson, uh, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. It's not true. A
00:38:59
person familiar with the plans told the Washington Post the content review took place following this pressure from the White House to remove an art museum
00:39:06
director. Um, so museums altering history, uh, closing down of long institutions, which is something Republicans have wanted for a while, but it will actually affect uh the small the
00:39:17
small uh local news and rural communities more than anybody else. Um, this is more than a distraction because
00:39:23
it actually things happen. Things actually happen. I mean, this is this is Trump. He's the,
00:39:29
you know, look, there there were certain rules in Washington. Uh, the sacred cow of the left was the
00:39:36
public broadcasters. Uh, Ronald Reagan railed on it, but he never did anything. Remember, Ronald
00:39:42
Reagan railed on Roie Wade, but never did anything. And Trump has come into town and he's basically now saying, "Hey, those sacred rules where we rail
00:39:54
on, you're on the left and you rail on something on the right and we and you don't do anything and vice versa, we're
00:40:00
ending that." And again, I just think it makes for a coarser society. Uh if you're asking me practically, will the society survive the end of that? It will. Uh does it suck for those rural
00:40:13
areas? It does, but it will survive it. Okay. And could something else creep up or could there be a publicly funded or non-publicly funded a charitably funded
00:40:24
replacement? It's all very possible. Uh but I think it it it to me it's more about the rules, Cara. It's more about okay, we're going to smash people. We
00:40:35
don't want any civility to our government. We don't want anybody having lunch in the cloak room or the
00:40:42
cafeteria. They can barely work. Apparently, they can barely work out with each other in the gym. Now, they're in separate areas of the gym. And it's
00:40:50
just bad for America. That's that that's not how we got here, right? The idea was that we were going to have
00:40:56
some consensus. We're going to have some compromise and we're going to have some civility with each other. And Trump
00:41:03
doesn't like that because remember, uh there's nobody that Trump hates more than himself. Nobody. Uh, which is why he's always got three things of a
00:41:13
self-hater. Humiliation rituals for people that you're insecure around. That's every world leader. He tries to
00:41:21
bring him into the White House and ens snare them in some type of humiliation ritual. Public humiliation
00:41:26
or Yeah. Or he'll bring him to Scotland even though he's the head of state, Kier Stormer. He's showing up at a guest in
00:41:32
his home country to be humiliated. Uh, where Trump is railing on the London mayor. And so what what self-haters do
00:41:40
is they they create and ferment hatred. They excoriate and try to humiliate through humiliation rituals. And then the third thing they do is they want to
00:41:52
leave a stain and legacy of that. They want people to be turned on each other because it makes them feel better. They get satisfaction out of seeing people turn on each other.
00:42:05
Right. Trump gets off on the idea that we're going after each other. He likes it.
00:42:11
So, those are things he's a I mean, he's he's a he's a you know, a lot of weird things about the guy. He's like a
00:42:16
weirdo, but like the self-hatred thing. Do not underestimate the self-hatred thing. I don't. But there could be the side effects of all the orange that's going into his bloodream. You know what I mean?
00:42:27
But you you everyone talks about these are distractions. You've said it several times. These are actual things that
00:42:32
happen now. like we're changing things in museums, we're closing down this. And so I was I was at a at a at a book fair this weekend and Jeff Goldberg, who has
00:42:43
had some good licks in on Trump with at the Atlantic, was saying, you know, that he does all these distractions. And I
00:42:49
almost got up and said, "Well, here's six things that actually happened because of the distractions. They aren't
00:42:54
they're not minor. They're we use that term a lot like but they're actually distractions with results, right? Like
00:43:02
this is something that the right has been trying to close down PBS for years or the corporation for this the years
00:43:08
decades. Oh, okay. But I let me just take the line. Think about what I'm saying though. Uh we're going to close down PBS cuz it's going to make people sore and
00:43:21
it's a sacred cow that the Republicans always talked about but never did anything about. So now we're going to
00:43:27
drop a bomb here to widen the divide between us. Mhm. I see Trump wants to do that.
00:43:32
So, you have to understand that yes, there are distractions, but there's also I want to leave a legacy of disrepair
00:43:40
and hatred and I want you guys to hate each other after I leave. You know, cuz by the way, Jackie O f her. I'm going to pave over her rose garden. Okay? Because
00:43:51
why am I going to do that? Cuz you're going to get triggered and pissed about that. And I want you triggered and
00:43:57
pissed because I hate myself so much that I want hatred to be an exponential force for my personality. Like you know, Monroe had a doctrine, stay out of the Western Hemisphere. Truman had a
00:44:09
doctrine, we're going to contain communist communism. The Trump doctrine is a manifestation of his own
00:44:16
self-hatred. And once you see that prism clearly and you see, oh, okay, he hates
00:44:22
himself, so this is what he's going to do. Oh, wow. He's really afraid of Putin. Putin must really have something
00:44:28
on him that's scaring the living daylights out of him, which is why he's immobile and paralyzed against a guy
00:44:34
that's running a failed state with a declining population and high alcoholism. But I'm going to go I'm
00:44:40
going to go in that direction. But everything is through the the prism of selfhatred. So if he can hurt you, Cara,
00:44:46
he will. If he can humiliate you, he will. Uh, if he can put JD Vance in a meme where he
00:44:55
looks like a big fat Cabbage Patch doll riding in a separate clown car from him as they're chasing Obama on the freeway in the OJ Bronco. He will. And by the way, JD says, "Haha, this was
00:45:07
funny." He's crying on the inside. He's crying on the inside. That's another episode for
00:45:12
No, but but Carrie, you have to understand is he because Trump is going to put him through. You remember that scene in Fargo where the guy's going
00:45:19
through the wood chipper? Yeah. That's JD Vance. Okay. Trump is going to throw him so definitively into the wood
00:45:26
chipper. Yeah. Because he doesn't he doesn't want a younger guy replacing him when he does a
00:45:32
total fiasco. So, who does he want? Just very briefly, who does he want? If you had to guess, who would you pick? Nobody.
00:45:37
Nobody. No. Remember when he fired that blonde girl? can't remember her name. The plond woman from the first season of
00:45:43
Apprentice. He replaced her with Ivanka. Remember she got a few speaking gigs and pissed him off.
00:45:49
Yeah. Right. And so that then he put Vankas. So if Ivanka and Don Jr. are not replacing him or Eric not replacing him,
00:45:55
nobody, you know, remember what remember what I know I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler,
00:46:01
but just remember this piece of history. When they told Hitler he was losing, he said, "Okay, great. Flood the coal
00:46:07
mines. bring down the electrical grid in the country, right? And they looked at him and said, "What?"
00:46:12
Yeah. Well, if there's not going to be a thousand-year Reich, there's not a Let's destroy the whole thing. If you had to pick one of the kids that
00:46:18
he would pick to run very briefly, which one would it be? Uh, well, you know, Ivanka is very
00:46:24
smart. She's very talented. She's capable. Eric is a very smart guy. You know, when I listen to Eric talk about
00:46:30
things like the blockchain, he understands it. Okay. But the heartbeat of MAGA is Donald Trump Jr., okay? They
00:46:38
they like him. Okay? And so I don't know, you know, I don't know which of those three, but I think Trump would be
00:46:45
happy with all three, but they're three different flavors. You know, Ivanka is basically a Democrat, right? So, you
00:46:51
know, probably no on her. Uh Eric is not politically motivated, uh, but he's probably smarter, you know, than most people think. But it probably it would have to be Don Jr. Don Jr. is beloved by
00:47:03
the base. If you if you ever see him with the base, you'll know uh they hold him in very high regard.
00:47:10
And do you? Okay. So, I have a peace agreement with those guys. You know, when I got into
00:47:16
the fight with Trump, I always got along with them and my agreement with them was don't say anything bad about me on
00:47:23
Twitter. I won't say anything bad about you. Caris Swisser is going to ask you about me on the Pivot podcast 5 years
00:47:28
from now. Don't say anything bad about me. Yeah, and I have lived up to that agreement and they have lived up to that
00:47:34
agreement. So, I'll simply say I get on with those guys. Eric wanted to come to my uh Bitcoin conference in Wyoming. I
00:47:41
invited them. No problem. I think they know that their father wants to pick fights with lots of lots of people and I
00:47:48
don't think they want to be fighting with all the people that their father wants them to fight with. Got that makes sense. All right,
00:47:53
Anthony, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Anthony, let's hear some wins and fails. you go
00:47:59
first. Okay. So, so, so wins. I'm going to say this, you're probably not going to like
00:48:05
this, but I I think Elon Musk is winning. Uh, I think he's backed into business. I
00:48:10
think he raised a lot of money on XAI. I participated in that. I will fully disclose that I'm an investor.
00:48:16
But I think Elon Musk is winning. Uh, and I think so much so and I think Donald Trump is so afraid of Elon Musk
00:48:23
that he started the Epstein thing. He started the Epste thing and he tweeted out, "Oh, I love Elon. I'm not coming
00:48:28
after his businesses, you know, blah blah. Okay. So, I think Elon Musk is winning. So, that's a big win. He got He just so people know, Tesla
00:48:35
just granted shares to Elon $29 billion describing. So, that's another big that's another
00:48:40
big win. Less than the 55 billion. That's correct. I was like, it's a half. It's a half. But, but you know, that's also a win.
00:48:46
But I think Elon's winning whether people like that or not. I think that's a definitive objective win. So, you invested in XAI. You think
00:48:52
that's a winner or I think I do. He's a real He's a real behind. He's really quite behind in the race compared to
00:49:00
Google or Chat GPT. You think he's behind? I don't know. I'm I I I put $300 a month into Super Gro. I
00:49:06
think the thing is phenomenal. Okay. And and I think it's distinctive. But again, that's me. I'm not an AI
00:49:12
expert. I'm just I use it for different things. I I'm I'm a I'm a cloud claude, I guess it's called, subscriber, a chat
00:49:19
GBT subscriber. You use them all. You use them all. I I do I do spend a lot of time say if if Elon goes and does his
00:49:25
businesses, he's better off, that's for sure. But I do think he is quite involved. He was the one that started
00:49:31
the Epstein stuff. So that was I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you another winner. I'll give you three winners and I'll
00:49:36
give you three losers. Okay. Another big winner with controversial Jerome Pal. Uh because Jerome Pal's legacy is
00:49:43
intact. Okay. The guy's done a decent job. Not perfect. He got transitory inflation wrong. it was more secular,
00:49:50
but he's done a decent job. He's a good human being and he's one of the few guys that have stuck stuck it to Trump a
00:49:57
little bit and he started in a very diplomatic way with some level of a plum and I think people need to learn about
00:50:03
it that way. And then the third the third winner, believe it or not, is actually the UK government related to
00:50:09
the US. uh because they got the deal. They moved first, took advantage of Trump's love affair with uh uh the monarchy and the Angolofile nature of
00:50:20
Trump and his mom from Scotland and they got a 10% trade deal done before anybody else. And I think they're a winner. I
00:50:28
think the three failures, okay, are Vladimir Putin, huge failure. Uh he's coming to the end here, Vladimir Putin. I don't I don't think Vladimir Putin will survive what's coming because
00:50:42
you can't do what he did, declare war on Ukraine, lose the war and stay in power
00:50:47
in Russia. And you say, well, he hasn't lost the war, but he also hasn't won the war and it's 3 years into it, and you
00:50:54
know, he may be able to stalemate this because of the compromise he has on Trump till 28, but I think I think
00:51:00
you'll see Putin out to the great surprise of people. So, he's he's a failure. Uh, another big failure, uh, is the American car industry is going to be
00:51:12
slammed around by these tariffs. They won't be able to absorb all the prices. They're making good cars, but they're
00:51:18
not making great cars. The tariffs on the European cars are not going to overly help them, frankly, because a lot
00:51:24
of Mercedes and BMW are being made in the country now. And so, I think there's a problem there for the American car company. I think that's on the side of failure. And last but not least, the
00:51:37
biggest failure that I've seen in the five years, uh what I would say if you put out the the yard markers and said, "Okay, last five, there's been 10 years of Trump. Who's been the greatest
00:51:48
failure in the last five years?" That's the American Congress. The American Congress had a responsibility to check
00:51:55
and balance the American system. And uh to use an Italian expression, they did ugats. They did ugats. Okay. And your your viewers and listeners could look look up what UGTS means, but
00:52:08
they've really done nothing and they're they're going to be judged very poorly by history. So So those are the three
00:52:14
winners. Those are three failures. All right, I'm going to do mine. Um I'm going to do just two failures actually
00:52:20
that I were really striking in two different places. One, the Israeli government just voted votes to remove
00:52:25
the attorney general who's a Netanyahu critic. I think they have done more to diminish their standing especially among
00:52:31
young people and they have only themselves to blame especially with what's happening in Gaza. More and more people are calling it a genocide. We can
00:52:38
see with our eyes what's happening there. Um and so I think this government is hurtling towards um illegality you
00:52:46
know what I mean in the things they're doing. And I think the thing that holds up a country is a country of laws. And
00:52:51
you know you believe in the stock market, you believe in the laws, you believe in the courts. And uh I think there
00:52:57
he's going to see a lot of push back from people in that country at some point. Um and I think they've done it to
00:53:02
themselves. They have lost a generation of young people who would have been supportive of Israel. So I think that's
00:53:08
that especially this um voting to remove the attorney general which is I think the at the heart of things like that
00:53:15
because because he's a Netanyahu critic and Netanyahu is sucked up into corruption that is so obvious. Um and
00:53:21
he's bad at it by the way. Trump is quite good at corruption. Um and uh Netanyahu is bad at it. The other thing
00:53:27
is Nancy Mace running for uh governor of um South Carolina. I think I've never seen a po politician just sort of run herself into a wall on so many things.
00:53:38
Uh someone who seemed promising for sure um has has become really a joke to everybody in Congress that I talked to. Um I think she's looking for her exit uh to try to run for governor. She'll
00:53:50
certainly be ahead in the beginning uh because of her name recognition and the the antics that she pulls. Uh but I
00:53:56
think she's uh probably like a lot of men can do it a little better but there there not necessarily and I think she has ruined what could have been a really interesting political career. Um but I
00:54:08
think she's got a lot of personal problems that are on top of that. Um if I had to say I I agree with you about
00:54:14
Elon if he gets back to business I think he's I think Trump should be everyone was talking about him being uh he should
00:54:20
be scared of Trump. I think Trump should be scared of him. That's my feeling. I think he is he's not Omar Rosa like I
00:54:26
say he's not Omar Rosa and he he is the first person who mentioned the Epstein stuff he has enormous power around the
00:54:32
world and so uh I think if he gets back to business and and and uh and focus is there he has a lot of levers to pull not not not to interrupt but just remember this one tweet which was very
00:54:44
insightful Elon said you're going to be around for three and a half years I'm going to be around for the next 40 and I
00:54:51
think I think Elon whatever ever his weaknesses are. And I'm sure we all have strengths and weaknesses. He's got a lot of weaknesses.
00:54:58
Okay. You're very kind to him. I think we have to stipulate that he's a smart guy. Absolutely. And he sees he sees the egg. He sees the
00:55:04
hair on the egg. Particularly as it relates to By the way, I I you know, I told his buddies he was going to get
00:55:10
blown out of there. Elon lasted 12 Scaramucci. He did. Okay. 12 times longer. By the way, it
00:55:17
was exactly 11.8. But I'm the official score of Scaramucci. I think I should be. And I'm
00:55:22
a generous guy. I round up. So he lasted 12 scaramucci. Yeah. And it was 12 times longer than me.
00:55:30
But here's the thing. Elon has seen the malevolence because you don't write you're on the
00:55:36
list. If that that's a code for you're a really bad FG. You're a really bad FG. Mhm. Yep. I agree with you. I think he's
00:55:47
someone who's going to endure. And if he cleaned himself up, I mean, a lot of what he's done is unforgivable, but he
00:55:53
will be forgiven, especially if he creates economic value, uh, and he will be around a lot longer. I don't think that's necessarily a win, but I think he
00:56:00
definitely is in much more of a commanding position than Trump realizes, and I think he was wrong to, um, to
00:56:07
fight to to do what they did to him. Uh, I think they there would have been a nicer way to part anyway.
00:56:13
But you can't do that with Trump. You can't do that. You can't do it. That's right. I I would see Trump maybe embracing him again. Anyway, I don't
00:56:18
know if Elon will embrace Trump, though. I think he's moved on. Uh, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions
00:56:23
about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Over on Carara
00:56:32
Swisser. This week, I spoke with former labor secretary Robert Wright uh about why Democrats are struggling right now.
00:56:38
Let's listen to a clip. The reason Democrats are so unpopular is they don't have a a coherent and authentic message
00:56:48
that translates to average people as authentic and real because the corporate Democrats, the financial Democrats, the the Wall Street Democrats uh don't allow them to. Uh,
00:57:00
you know, a lot of Democrats I know are scared. They don't want to bite the hands that feed them.
00:57:06
I think you'll probably agree with that, Anthony. I agree that he he is a former professor of mine. I have an enormous
00:57:12
amount of respect for him. But I al he also gave an interview in one of the Sunday news magazines.
00:57:18
Uh I can't remember if it was the New York Times or the FT, but I read the interview and he's calling for the
00:57:24
Mandamis and he's calling for these sort of harder left people to coales the party. I think that'll be a 1972
00:57:32
McGovern like nightmare for the Democrats. And I and I think it's a big mistake because it's a center-right
00:57:38
country. Uh we have we have religious orthodoxy in this country. Uh it's uh you know you and I might be secular. I'm not saying you are but I I'm more secular than the religious orthodox. So
00:57:50
and I but I I I think that Europeans in general don't understand this because they by and large now the majority of
00:57:56
the population is secular. But this country has a lot of religious ferocity to it still. Yeah. And I think that I think the Democrats have really missed the mark on that. You know what Trump
00:58:07
once said to me? This is an important thing to tell your viewers. Trump said to me on the campaign plane,
00:58:12
he says, "You know, you're an idiot." I said, "Yes, I know I'm an idiot, but why am I an idiot?" He said, "Well, you're a Wall Street
00:58:18
guy. You're fiscally conservative and you're socially liberal." Am I right? I said, "Yes, I'm fiscally conservative,
00:58:25
socially liberal." He says, "My base, Anthony, my base fiscally con fisc excuse me, my base, Anthony, fiscally liberal. They are socially conservative." He's correct. That's how that is
00:58:38
actually. I just was talking to Kristen um Saltus Anderson. She said that exact it is true. That is
00:58:44
he said that to me in 2016, right? The Democrats wake up. Wake up. He he he understands his base. And believe it or not, a lot of his face used to vote for you.
00:58:56
Okay? And so wake up and get in the middle before it's too late. Well, I I have a different take on this.
00:59:01
I think everybody should be who they are and authentic of where they are. If you're Abby Spanberger, you're a centrist, right, in Virginia or or
00:59:07
Mickey Cheryl in in New Jersey or and if you're Mom Donnie, be mom. Be yourself.
00:59:13
I think be yourself is and it may be different across the country. And I'm not sure anyone should stand for
00:59:19
anything with the Democrats. I think they should stand for a lot of things. Uh, and I know that sounds crazy, but if
00:59:24
you're genuine to who you are, I think you do well where you are. We're always looking for someone who represents
00:59:30
everybody, and that's impossible in this day and age. I think it's well said, but I just think if you're going to go hard left in this
00:59:35
country right now, uh, particularly with the wokeism ending, go hard left, you're going to lose
00:59:41
elections. That's what I You may You may win in New York and you may win in Minnesota. You may win the mayor's race in Minnesota, Minneapolis, but you're
00:59:49
going to lose the g big general election if you're not for the general election for the larger country. That's absolutely true. But we'll we'll see.
00:59:55
We'll see where it goes. Um can I ask you one last question? Right now, I want to do a prediction. Who is the who are
01:00:01
the two presidential slates in 2028? So, I think Nuome is going to be the nominee for the Democrats. I I think he'll pick a Midwestern moderate. uh
01:00:13
he'll probably pick a white guy. I know that sounds crazy, but I think he probably will. Uh it'll end the virtue
01:00:20
signaling that's going on on the left and he'll get the same policies and they'll be more acceptable to some of
01:00:25
the uh anti-woke moderates that are out there. So, I think it's Newsome and not Wesmore. Not Wesmore. No, I don't think so. I don't I I I don't think so. Uh I think
01:00:37
but you know I mean I don't know how honest you want me to be on this podcast, but I think I want you to lie. But I think Obama has hurt the ability
01:00:45
for an African-American to get the nomination. I don't think people realize the existential damage that Obama did.
01:00:51
Uh Van Jones called it a white lash. That's that was the apotheiois of Donald Trump. And so I think the way Obama
01:00:59
handled the presidency has hurt that if I'm just being brutally honest. And I think I think the last two women that
01:01:05
were the nominees for the Democrats have hurt the women standing in the party for now. And people could be very mad at me
01:01:12
for saying this. I'm talking about this as a realist, as an analyst, not as not a normative thing of what ought or
01:01:18
should be. I'm just talking about what actually is. I think Newsome gets it. Newsome has shown some muscularity.
01:01:25
Nuome did a good job in LA in terms of the way they defended themselves against Trump's brown shirted lunatics. And
01:01:32
Lucim is standing up on the gerrymandering. And Lucim is putting a finger in Trump's eye. and he's doing a
01:01:38
better job trolling him in social media and and I think I think he wins. And by the way, I was on Gavin's podcast. Yeah. And I read to Gavin. He's he's gotten to every white guy, but
01:01:48
go ahead. I joke with him. I'm like, "Another white guy today. How interesting." And then the other the other thing I
01:01:54
would tell you just quickly is that it will not be it will not be Marco Rubio. It will not be JD Vance. Mhm. Uh but I think there will be a candidate
01:02:06
that comes out of the woodwork that surprises people who I know this is crazy. It could be a
01:02:11
Charlie Baker who's now running the uh uh NCAA. He was the former governor of uh Massachusetts popular governor. Uh it could be a John Thun. Okay. Although I think he's a jellyfish.
01:02:23
I think he's a well jellyfish to you. Go ahead. Yeah. President jellyfish to me. But I
01:02:28
think he's a guy that could uh could help the Republicans get back to something that's more normal
01:02:34
to their principles and their philosophy. Mhm. Uh and but I don't think it's going to be Vance and I don't think remember the
01:02:42
MAGA ends with Trump. It's a personality cult that people have more or less accepted that even though they don't
01:02:48
like pedophilia, they're holding their noses, lots of them. Uh but they won't be able Vance won't be able to command
01:02:54
that or Rubio. And uh and so I think it's it's like a thun baker sort of a guy uh going up
01:03:01
against news. It'll be white males. Yeah. White males as far as you could see. Going up against white males. Gary
01:03:08
males are as high as an elephant. I can say I can hear the derision in your voice. But I just think that's
01:03:13
what's going to happen. Yeah, I agree with you. I have to say I do agree with you. Although I'm I'm not sure it's news, but uh there's a number
01:03:19
of choices in that regard. Um okay, that is the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe
01:03:25
to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Anthony, as usual, thank you for joining us
01:03:31
and I appreciate being on. Give my regards to Scott. I will and thank you so much. I will read us out. Today's show was produced
01:03:38
by Larara Neon. Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Enderdott engineered this episode. Nad
01:03:44
Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks
01:03:50
for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Fox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
01:03:55
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and
01:04:00
business. And Anthony, I'll be right over to look in your closet and put on your Batman outfit. Thank you.