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All this foreign policy chaos is conveniently distracting from the story Trump doesn't want to discuss, which
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again is Jeffrey Epstein. >> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Carara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Galloway. >> How you doing Scott?
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>> I'm doing well. How are you? >> This has been quite a week. this uh
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what's going on in this country is really disturbing it on so many levels and
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>> it's been disturbing. Um and uh I don't know what to say. I think we probably
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should just get to the news. First, very quickly, Donald Trump uh and I can't
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believe I'm saying this, is threatening to invoke the insurrection act as anti-ICE protests intensify in
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Minneapolis, largely because they've been egged on by ICE itself. The latest
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protest in the city began when a federal officer shot a man in the leg on Wednesday, just a week after an ICE
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agent fatally shot 37year-old Renee Good. Uh I I I don't quite know what to say. This is like they are from what the
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the word in Washington is Steven Miller wants something that he can invoke the Insurrection Act and then declare
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martial law so they can't have midterm elections. That's the that's the
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conspiracy theory running around Washington right now. And I got to say this is they are causing the problem
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that you can look at these videos and see like absolutely pushing over old people asking for people's papers. I
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feel like I I'm in the middle of like a Nazi movie or something at this point.
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Thoughts? >> Well, we talked about this the last time. The very founding of America was
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meant to avoid this. Not wanting a monarch that could have unilateral unchecked power and start
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harassing and terrorizing the population is is the basis of the founding of America. The question is what do you do
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about it? And what's really disappointed me, and I've been on the phone with a
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couple Democrats, is I believe that uh people at ICE and the officials and administrators who have ordered them and
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created a context around this, I think that they potentially could be guilty of second or third degree murder, of
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manslaughter, of criminally negligent homicide, and absolutely of assault. And what I would be doing very publicly in
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the Congress and Senate is passing two types of or proposing two types of laws which will not pass now. But should we
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have the kind of momentum we believe we're going to have in 26 and then in 28
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make sure that these officials ordering this type of deprave behavior and the people executing it understand that this
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is absolutely a possibility. And those two bills are the following. One is criminal charges and resources
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that will be allocated to and vary with a fine tooth and comb. Go through all of
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this video and be willing to to charge these individuals. And two, something that says potentially that for certain
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types of crimes, including anything with the word homicide in it, uh that uh from
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this point forward, once the it's the pardons are no longer valid, there there
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has to be I do find that the Democrats you know, the strongly worded letter kind of defines in my opinion and
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Democrats will say, "Well, look, there was very little we can do and I'm
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sympathetic to that because they they they do not they're the minority uh in
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in all three houses. I get it. But these folks need to be reminded very swiftly that, okay, the same overrun of judicial
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power and co-equal branches of government that you've committed, we could do the same, but we're going to do
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it to to quite frankly go uh weaponize, not weaponize. We believe the law, just enforced as it
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is correctly, could put many of these people behind bars or at a minimum impair their careers, which would be
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justifiable. and this and begin laying the groundwork. >> Yeah, absolutely. The the you know, one
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of the things that's hard is that they keep doubling down, right? Like there
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was a you know this I'm sorry it's a specious report from CBS News. No surprise at this point um about
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>> they're relying less on experts and academics and speaking to you. >> God, I hated that.
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>> Don't don't make me go into that ridiculous disaster over there.
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>> Can I can I just rant on that for a minute? Please go right ahead cuz you
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can Nikki Nikki Glazer this for me my friend. Go ahead. >> I actually like
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>> she made a joke I'm referencing. >> I like the guys next the the anchor. I I
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actually think he's a great pick. I think he's handsome which I think >> that's all they could get. But go ahead.
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>> Uh I think he's really solid. I think he's really handsome. >> That's all they could get. They were
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looking at elsewhere but go ahead. >> And I assume that he's a good person
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because I like Katie Tour and assume that anyone she decides to spend her life with is a good person. But that
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opening monologue, you know, it was fine except for the part and we're gonna less
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we're going to rely it's something along the lines we're gonna rely less on the
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academics and the experts and more on what the people think. That's saying, okay, we're going to start entertaining
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conspiracy theory and misinformation. By the way, folks, the word expert in the US might as well be the word
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meritocracy. >> Yeah. And that is you can be a a kid growing up in the poorest village
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outside of Hyderabbad in India and if you are just so [ __ ] talented and hardworking and smart and end up at I
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think it's called IIT, you can end up being one of those experts at Harvard that they're not going to listen to that
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knows more than anyone else in the world on mRNA vaccines. You can be, >> you know, the son of a single mother
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lived and died an expert and someday quote unquote work your [ __ ] ass off to be considered an expert in brand
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strategy. >> So this notion that they're not going to listen to expertise, it's like we want
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an excuse to impose political values or [ __ ] Ouija boards or horoscopes or what'sever trending on Twitter as
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opposed to listening to the people who've actually [ __ ] earned it. And one of the great things about America is
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it is in fact a meritocracy. Sometimes it's a bit too much of a meritocracy and
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that is the people who aren't talented or are unfortunate live a very harsh life here. But be clear, meritocracy
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means capitalism means expertise. >> People who are experts are science. >> Yeah. People who get paid a lot
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>> to provide input. So if we're not going with the experts and the academics,
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>> I I don't mind and they've done this forever. News does a lot of kind of
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quote unquote man on the street. Let's talk to people in the community and see
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how they feel at the barber shop or the diner. But we're going to start listening to them about vaccine safety,
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not not epidemiologists who have written peerreview research for the last 30 [ __ ] years.
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>> Let me interject here cuz I'm going to because it's repulsive. What's I know
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you're being very kind to this guy, but he's done six or seven things that are
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really problematic. One is talking about more transparent than Walter Kankite doing this kiss ass. All the interviews,
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I'm so sorry, but they're PR for the Trump administration is what they are.
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They're terrible interviews and he has an opportunity given they're sucking up
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to do an actual tough interview. He is doing a disservice to journalism in these interviews given that he's got
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this access. >> But it isn't any worse than Fox. I mean, >> uh, yes, exactly. Thank you. Fox is
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entertainment. Like, this is CBS News saying he's more transparent than Walter
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Kronhite. Uh, we we unapologetically love America. But what do you what does a news organization need to that's not
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their job. We're going to do we're going to give one the one they did this week
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is really another one he said this week was just equally idiotic and the and and
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and and the there was a story in the New York Times that everyone should read like we want to be the news. New news
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does not want to be the news reports the news. You know this is this is a stunt.
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This is all stunts all the time flying across the country. It's it's the people
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I know a lot of people at CBS News. beside themselves is what's happening there. And it's and it's depressing to
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watch and this guy is doing it. I'm sorry. Whatever you think of him as a nice person and I think he probably is.
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I don't I know Katie. Katie's terrific. Um but it doesn't matter. It doesn't
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This is just a disservice. It's It's a state organization. It's a state media
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organization is what's happening. And and and this story, let me get back to
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what we were talking about. This ICE officer has all these internal injuries. You get internal bleeding from or
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whatever internal bleeding from taking Advil. Everybody, we don't see this guy.
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There's no proof of it. And they just all they do is say federal officials say
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it here. Here here here Pravda. Here's what we want you to say. That's it
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doesn't have any reporting involved in it. And it's in order to create this
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this ridiculous and everyone has seen the video that this guy had has was more hurt than her. I'm sorry. she's dead and
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he has I don't know a bruise like I'm this then to be facilitate that is
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really bad and so I think what they're trying to do is create equalization and
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trying to sort of smear this woman who seems to be have been in the PTA you know you know call calling this this
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whole thing about women wine moms um angry wine moms or white women who are smug to lectured by men white men who
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are smug who actually invented smug Um, it's just it's just this equalization.
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And again, one person's dead, one person's shot in the leg, and the others
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aren't. And to I just it's it I don't know what to say. And for a news
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organization to go along with that is really an embarrassment uh to the legisl. It's [ __ ] irrelevant. If if
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>> Yes, it is. That's true. >> If HBO If HBO's co if HBO is cocaine and
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Netflix is edible, CBS is literally like fiber supplement. I mean, >> psyllium, what's it called?
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>> Psyllium. >> If if you were to visit one of their editorial meetings,
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>> right? >> Yeah. >> You'd go in and you'd see a giant
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whiteboard and they'd write, "Okay, our audience is tired, scared, and eating a
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lot of soup." >> I mean, who cares? >> You're right. The numbers are really
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[ __ ] matter. >> Can't be Fox News. Let me pick up a lower middle income 83year-old in Iowa
00:10:03
who >> I know, but Fox does it well. I have to say they do their heinous [ __ ] well.
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>> Well, they've gone full full, you know, stripper pull cosplaying political news.
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I mean, >> yeah. >> And they're also very talented and they've leaned into
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>> they're entertaining in a really heinous way, I would say. Anyway, you're right.
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No one the numbers are down. >> I don't I wouldn't even know how to find
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CBS on my Although I have been watching Wait, is Landman that's CBS? That's
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Paramount. >> That's Paramount. Yeah, >> that shit's really good.
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>> But he's leaving. He went over to Universal. Yeah, but he produced Blam. I
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really enjoy >> that guy. Super talented. I've tried to get him on my show. I I love all his
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shows. I watched Yellowstone from the start, but they're all go. He's leaving
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going over to Universal. It's I don't know some [ __ ] up. >> Let me guess. More money.
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>> Anyway, good for any Land Man is really good. There are some good shows in
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Paramount. I really like them. >> But I want you to Where do you think this goes from? I I get that you want
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Democrats to speak out more, but what what is the I mean, because the numbers for Trump are cratering on all this
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stuff. So, it's obviously Scott, he's got to go to martial law, right? >> There's the problem.
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The numbers are cratering for Trump. They've almost plunged to the levels of
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Democrats. >> Mhm. >> It's like >> who are going up who are going up? Oh,
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>> not a lot, Cara. >> Well, no, with young men. These No, there's a few polls out that show really
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significant shifts, but go ahead. It's it's the worst cocktail in the world for democracy and that is you have
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a fascist who doesn't have a credible opposition. I I just think we look weak
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and feckless. I don't >> who's >> I want you to focus on the fascist and
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not on the feckless for a minute. >> Well, I want to focus on being effective
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and what the [ __ ] we actually need to do to push back on those fascists. And if
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you don't have an objective group of leaders emerging who are powerfully talking about creating a series
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incentives to stop this [ __ ] it doesn't matter. and just sitting around thinking, scolding them and saying,
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"Isn't this awful?" and vote in 20, you know, 26. It's like, >> that's not exactly leadership. Mhm.
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>> I want to see legislation of how we're going to track down and prosecute and
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indict and subpoena these people, including all the crypto scammers >> and a series of of laws that or
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proposals and legislation that does not give the retroactively can unmask uh uh protection from pardons because
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they have been so hugely abused. Unless you give these people the sense that there's a non-zero probability that they
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will be held accountable for these actions, they're going to continue. >> And we don't have anyone with the moral
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authority right now or the charisma or the leadership to stand up and quite frankly rally America more than the the
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images they're seeing on social media. That just horrifies them. >> Yeah, it's absolutely true. Anyway,
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moving on. The US is exact started evacuating some troops from a base in Qatar ahead of a potential military
00:12:52
conflict with Iran. Though Trump says he's been told the killing in Iran has
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stopped, no executions are planned, indicating he may moving away from taking military action. Uh, you know,
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who I don't know what's going to happen here. There's all this weird vetting
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happening by individuals, again, very similar to the Venezuelan invasion. There are insiders in the government
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making money off of these military actions and maybe influencing them, too. That's another scary thing to think
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about. Um, what is what what do you imagine happening? And at the same time, Denmark, Greenland, and their NATO
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allies, including France and Germany, are increasing the military presence in and around Greenland. I can't believe
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I'm saying this. The move comes in the wake of a meeting at the White House between JD Vance, Marco Rubio, and
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foreign ministers at Denmark and Greenland. The Danish foreign minister said the talks were constructive, but
00:13:38
fundamental disagreement remains. Ahead of the meeting Donald Trump posted on True Social than anything less than US
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control of Greenland is unacceptable. uh feels very um nerve-wracking. Um at the same time, a lot there was an
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interesting article in I forget where it was that that JD Vance and Marco Ruby may be slow rolling this into the grass
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so that Trump they don't want it to happen this Greenland thing. Um and they're so they're just dragging it out
00:14:04
so that Trump loses interest uh in the situation. But I don't know, seems very
00:14:09
strange to go to war with France. >> I mean, first off, there's a few things
00:14:14
here. The potential for insider trading is just so insane. >> Yeah. >> On poly poly market and right now. So
00:14:21
poly market right now puts the likelihood that Kmeni will be out of supreme leader before 2027 at 63%. So if
00:14:30
you're part of the inner circle and by the way there's reports that they are
00:14:34
transferring the senior leadership is transferring millions of dollars out of Iran which is a very hopeful sign
00:14:38
because they think they need to get the hell out. But if if you know, okay, on Wednesday we're all headed to Moscow,
00:14:44
easy way to make 50% on your ma money would be betting on one of these markets. So just be clear folks, just as
00:14:50
the casino has figured out the odds of these numerical games that on average over time they win.
00:14:56
>> Mhm. >> When you don't have inside information on these things, eventually you're
00:14:59
playing at a disadvantage. The footnote here is the following or the disclosure.
00:15:03
I have not had any substantive conversations before I say that because this is such a hot topic with anyone
00:15:09
senior in the Israeli government. This is pure speculation on my part. But I talk a lot about Israel. My background
00:15:16
is in brand and I would consistently get calls from people in Israel, in the government and in the private sector
00:15:22
saying, "What can we do about our brand? Uh the brand Israel is so terrible
00:15:27
around the world." And the general belief is if you look at actually what we're doing relative to other wars, it's
00:15:33
just being characterized unfairly. And we think a lot of it we're shocked at
00:15:36
how poorly our brand or how dramatically our brand is eroded. And I remember when
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I was a kid, the Israeli brand was one of the strongest brands in the world and TV uh Munich, they were just seen as the
00:15:48
good guys. They are no longer seen as the good guys. And so they're constantly
00:15:52
calling and asking what can we do about the brand. I think the most brand decreative move that Israel could do,
00:15:58
the biggest opportunity for Israel right now would be to go in and do what they did uh when they decided to take out
00:16:04
their air defenses or something along the same lines. And that is when they decided to take out their air defenses
00:16:09
and basically neuter Iran, who has been the primary sponsor of terror across the
00:16:14
region for a couple decades. They they said, "Okay, there are basically when
00:16:19
our jets fly in, the surfaceto-air missiles, the air defense systems are operated by this this group of people
00:16:27
and there's six to eight people that need to give the order to fire missiles
00:16:31
at alien aircraft." And you know what they did that day? They killed them. They had targeted assassinations. Within
00:16:38
like an hour, six of the eight were dead. And then when the radar sent these these these, you know, F-15s flying in,
00:16:45
there was no one to give the order. And I know that sounds really, you know, macabra and ugly, but in my opinion,
00:16:52
these are murderers right now. I think if they were, it's clear that the MOSAD
00:16:57
has deeply penetrated soft assets at the highest level in Iran. but coordinated military strikes of centers of civilian
00:17:05
suppression with the US Air Force and on the ground soft assets that wreak havoc
00:17:10
across what is a murderous IRGC right now I think is not only geopolitically very smart over the long term but I
00:17:16
think would be very good for a brand Israel right now >> well they've got a lot of things to do
00:17:22
let's be there >> right but but I think this you know what I thought I found really heartening
00:17:27
these protests in New York where I see Iranian and and uh flags of Israel. I actually find that quite
00:17:35
>> encouraging. >> Yeah. >> To think that we might >> You saw Manny push back. You saw AOC
00:17:40
push back on a lot of these uh more you know Hamas supporting stuff. They were they were very clear about what
00:17:48
happened. I think one of the things is that with Iran, you and I both agree that Iran is a is a menacing country.
00:17:55
Um, and also would be a really huge opportunity for >> the leadership, the RGC, the the Islamic
00:18:00
Republic. >> Yeah, it would be a thing. I I think it'll be interesting to see what I think
00:18:06
the juxtaposition here is is is Trump trying to create and ferment uh protests by brutality here in this
00:18:17
country and it brutalizing protesters and then supporting protesters in Iran. I think that's the obvious.
00:18:23
>> Yeah, I had I had connected that. You're right. That's right. >> And so and and then going after, you
00:18:29
know, Greenland when, you know, you have something like Ukraine sitting there and
00:18:33
blaming again Vladimh Zillinski in in what's happening. But the idea of us going to war with France,
00:18:40
I mean, or France having to send military thing. What an insane moment. Like these are our friends. These are
00:18:47
our allies. These are places we like to go. Like we like to to be part of. Um, and so I think, you know, let me get the
00:18:56
reason I think all this foreign policy chaos is conveniently distracting from the story Trump doesn't want to discuss,
00:19:01
which again is Jeffrey Epstein. Um, it's been nearly a month since the deadline
00:19:06
for releasing the Epstein files came and went. And the Justice Department appears
00:19:09
to be going nowhere close to making a full files public. I think they have 1% or something. The DOJ sent a filing last
00:19:16
week that it reviewed more about 12,000 documents out of more than two million. incredible amount of documents.
00:19:23
Democratic Representative Roana and Republican Representative Thomas Massie, who is really quite a badass these days,
00:19:29
had filed a complaint with a federal judge. They're asking for the judge to appoint what they call a special master
00:19:34
to force the DOJ to release the files. I actually spoke with Roana on the latest
00:19:38
episode of On with Cara Swisser and asked him what happens next because this is actually a process. They have gotten
00:19:44
the the law passed. They had the DOJ has to comply. The DOJ didn't comply. Now
00:19:49
they have to do this. Let's listen. We will see some of these millions of documents because the Justice Department
00:19:54
has said to the judge they're releasing them. The question is the quality of
00:19:58
that and will they have excessive reductions. And then Thomas Massie and I are planning to in introduce inherent
00:20:03
contempt. Uh inherent contempt if it passes the house, it just requires the house would find Pam Bondi personally
00:20:09
$10,000 a day uh for every document that she didn't release. whether that passes
00:20:14
and is in force. The point is it's showing the crack in the MAGA base, >> which is interesting. Let me just
00:20:21
finish. >> That's actually doing something. That's kudos to that person.
00:20:24
>> Yes. And also, they're trying to get this special master, which I think is
00:20:26
another thing, which is probably the right thing to do here. Meanwhile, Bill and Hillary Clinton released a scathing
00:20:31
letter to got to read this letter to the House uh oversight committee this week saying they will not testify in the uh
00:20:37
Epstein investigation. I will say Roana said they should testify. At the same time, they are having a quite a good
00:20:44
point uh noting every person uh has to decide when they have seen or had enough and are ready to fight for this country,
00:20:50
its principles, its people, no matter the consequences. For us, now is the time. The House Republicans are moving
00:20:55
to hold both Clintons in contempt. Of course, they don't think Trump should testify, which I which is a good reason
00:21:01
for the Clintons maybe not to. Um this continues to be the story that doesn't
00:21:06
go away. and talk about what's happening here because you know he is doing a lot
00:21:11
of this to get the focus off of Epstein which is going to come out no matter what he does. I mean this is not this is
00:21:17
not to be quashed at this point is my feeling but >> I just want to go back to Denmark for a
00:21:22
moment talk about abstain. >> Yeah. So, my favorite meal in the world is um In-N-Out animal style at the Sepulva,
00:21:32
the In-N-Out on Sepulva near LA. Because what it means is I've just gotten to LA.
00:21:37
I'm about to roll into the Beverly Hills Hotel, roll up to the bar. >> Uh perhaps get my eye contact return
00:21:44
from a lovely woman who perhaps might be from Russia. But it just signals a bunch
00:21:48
of good things are about to happen. Karen, I'm about to roll with my buddy Mike. I absolutely love LA. My second
00:21:54
favorite meal is a latte and grapefruit and yogurt at Jack's wife Frito. Just
00:21:59
sitting out there watching the world go by. I feel like I'm an author in I don't
00:22:03
know 1920s France. My third >> Can I just note if we were on the newlywood game, I would know all this.
00:22:08
But go ahead. I do know all this. My favorite one, Bob Eubanks, outstanding talk show host, asked, "What
00:22:15
is what is somewhere uh recently you've gone that you was interesting or what
00:22:19
what do you where do you want to go or where have you visited recently that you and your husband enjoyed?" And she
00:22:24
looked down and then she looked up and said, "In the ass." And they didn't even
00:22:28
bleep it out cuz they were so they were so shocked. And it was good times. And so, uh, my third favorite meal is
00:22:35
anything from Chipotle. The fact that Chipotle is not a sponsor of everything I do is a a crime against commerce. I
00:22:44
can walk into Chipotle with a blindfold and I walk out with a smile on my face. >> All right.
00:22:48
>> This Denmark is similar to me showing up with an AR-15 >> and zip ties and a military vest and
00:22:55
saying, "If you don't give me a burrito bowl with pork, extra guacamole, and
00:23:02
sour cream and brown rice for $14.73, I'm going to kill everyone here."
00:23:07
>> Right. and they'd say, "Well, sir, >> this is Trump is the person."
00:23:10
>> Sir, we we would do this anyways. There's no need for guns. There's no
00:23:15
need for military vest. You >> there there is absolutely an argument around why Greenland is strategic. It's
00:23:23
a passage for not only all kinds of commerce u uh maritime commerce, but also for nuclear submarines. It would be
00:23:30
a staging ground for any attack. It's it's hugely important. It also supposedly has about 17% is it 17% or
00:23:38
12% of rare earth materials. >> But all of this >> ours all of it is or not even ours. The
00:23:46
whole point of the new world order post 1945 was we said to nations rather than going on conquests try this thing called
00:23:54
reciprocal mutually beneficial trade and commerce. >> Yes. >> And it's less expensive than firing
00:24:01
>> bases. We could have as many bases there as we want. >> We used to have I think 11. We closed
00:24:05
them down. And now we have one. >> They're like there 57,000 people. They
00:24:09
up until recently really liked Americans and they like the jobs. Like sure, put a
00:24:14
>> put a nuclear submarine base here. Put a tracking. Put a radar station. Whatever
00:24:17
you want. If you want to start, >> you want to come up trade deals around the minerals.
00:24:22
>> Whatever you want, sir. We will give you your burrito bowl. You don't need to
00:24:26
bring a gun into Chipotle. >> I like this Chipotle metaphor. I was expecting wondering where I was going
00:24:32
with that. >> I was indeed. >> By the way, my new favorite restaurant
00:24:35
in New York is a place called The Corner Store. Oh my god, so many fabulous people there.
00:24:40
>> The French Dip. You heard it here. You're welcome. >> All right. Okay.
00:24:43
>> Um anyways, this just makes no [ __ ] sense. Look, the Epstein files. >> There's no getting around it, Cara. It's
00:24:50
probably um President Clinton looks really bad here. There's just >> this is what Ro noted, but nonetheless,
00:24:58
it was a great >> There's just no getting around here. But again, Ro is right except for the
00:25:02
following. And one of the reasons why one of the other, you know, pieces of material that's been stained uh
00:25:10
indelibly by the Trump administration is that many of the activities testifying in front of Congress, not having your
00:25:17
children trade in crypto and leverage the presidency to get multi-billion dollar deals.
00:25:22
>> There's actually few laws against them. What they are is they've been enforced
00:25:27
by norms. And we've had norms in this country where if you're called before
00:25:31
Congress, you go >> regardless of who you are. >> You don't act like a jackass every
00:25:37
>> And because Trump has just waved the middle finger at so many so many norms
00:25:43
and >> which he did this week in in Detroit, but go ahead. And because we have
00:25:47
abdicated, as Barry Goldwater back in the late 60s and early 70s, because we have abdicated and um quite frankly
00:25:55
recklessly and and ignorantly transferred so much power to the executive branch that this guy has not
00:26:02
only been able to blow through stop signs, he can mow over children in the crosswalk and say, "Yeah, [ __ ] it.
00:26:07
There's no law against it." And so I think, and this is how society's kind of
00:26:11
just digressed. So, so understandably and justifiably, the Clintons are saying, "Oh, these norms no longer
00:26:17
apply. >> Yeah. >> Uh, we don't have if if what's good for them is good for us." In any other
00:26:23
administration, if the Clintons had called been called before Congress, >> they would have said absolutely will
00:26:29
come testify, they would show up. They're very smart. They're very wellprepared, and they would have
00:26:33
performed >> excellently. Instead, they want to make theater and make and connect Epstein
00:26:37
more to Clinton and a Democrat than to >> I don't know. I think they want to get
00:26:41
arrested and show that Trump doesn't have to testify. I think that's precisely
00:26:45
>> they want to get arrested. I'm sorry. >> They want to get arrested.
00:26:47
>> The Clintons Yes. >> They want to make a spectacle of it. >> They want to make a spectacle and they
00:26:51
want to point out that that they want to have the Clintons testify, but not Trump.
00:26:56
>> The Clintons, but not Trump. >> Yeah. Think about it. >> You know more about this than I do.
00:27:00
>> Trump is not the the committee doesn't want Trump to testify. Why wouldn't
00:27:03
they? Trump was closer to Epstein. I mean, on >> the committee is controlled by
00:27:08
Republicans. No. No, I get that. But I'm just saying that they want to do they
00:27:12
want to do this that I think they wouldn't write a letter. >> The Clintons want to do this.
00:27:16
>> Yes, the Clintons want to make some [ __ ] noise. That's my guess here if I
00:27:20
had to guess because I think they both they they they also noted they gave a lot of information. They've been
00:27:26
cooperative, but they're not going to appear essentially if Trump doesn't. And
00:27:30
I think that's I think people can gro that pretty clearly. I you know what I
00:27:35
mean? And I do think they want to be tried for this. I think that's what they're doing. I think that's
00:27:42
>> I I I don't think William Jefferson Clinton wants to be tried under oath for
00:27:45
anything to do with abstain. >> You don't write a letter like that if you don't want. It's a dare. It's a
00:27:50
dare. >> Well, they're both they're both lawyers and my guess is the best lawyers in the
00:27:53
world reviewed it whether they signed it or not. >> Got it. But it's a dare. You wouldn't
00:27:57
send a letter like that if you didn't want something to happen. If you didn't
00:28:01
want >> Well, and you were smarter than me, so I defer to your strategy. >> Yeah. We'll see. Nonetheless, the
00:28:05
Epstein files should be released. And what Trump is doing is is in is distraction, distraction, distraction.
00:28:11
There is something that he does not want to come out. I don't know if it's about
00:28:15
him. It's definitely about his friends. So he this is what's happening here.
00:28:20
He's trying to to get it out. And by the way, the people that want it out the
00:28:24
most is the MAGA base. So uh and now me and now Scott and now the rest of the country. So we'll see. All right, we're
00:28:31
going to go to a quick break. We come back. Paramount sues Warner Brothers. Support for this show comes from Quint.
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Morgan Stanley. Scott, we're back with more news. The battle for Warner Brothers is get is
00:30:38
continuing and as as Paramount continues to fall downstairs on this in doing deal
00:30:43
making. Uh Paramount filed a lawsuit against Warner Brothers and his CEO David Zazlov this week trying to get
00:30:48
them to turn over details of their sale process and the Netflix deal. Warner Brothers is calling the lawsuit
00:30:53
meritless. Paramount also announced plans to nominate its own slate of directors to Warner Brothers board to
00:30:58
vote against the next deal. This is very typical in these fights. Netflix is making some moves ahead of its own,
00:31:03
reportedly amending its offer to an allcash deal, very savvy, which could speed up the process significantly. The
00:31:08
stock is down, so it makes sense and it makes it more attractive and gets that problem out of the way, the stock
00:31:13
declining. Um, I'd love you to talk about the board dynamics. I talked to Bill Cohen last night and he was like, I
00:31:20
don't understand why you would and you would sugar, give the money, give $34 a
00:31:24
share. You don't do vinegar here after doing so many stupid things in this deal. And and actually, let me note
00:31:30
lengthening the time frame because Trump is if martial law doesn't happen, Trump
00:31:36
loses the House and the Senate, this deal is [ __ ] for the Paramount people. So, the time frame is really bad uh for
00:31:43
them at this point. they're taking too long to get this. If they got their hands on this, it Trump will be damaged
00:31:50
by the time and unable to help them. But um what do you think of this proxy strategy? You've been in the middle of
00:31:55
these things a million times. >> Yeah, it's Bill's exactly right. Um at
00:32:01
some point, I mean, they went through a long process and to Zazlo and their banker's credit, they got the number
00:32:06
much higher than anyone, including me had anticipated. And at some point, they have to say, "Okay, this is this is why
00:32:12
we're picking this deal. you have to be able to economically justify it for shareholders. Uh there was justification
00:32:17
for a lot of reasons that that the Netflix is the superior bid and I have never been on a company that's been
00:32:23
acquired or has acquired another company or has gone out of business where there's not lawsuits. I was on the board
00:32:29
of Eddie Bower when we declared bankruptcy. I was on >> Really? You're on the board of Eddie B?
00:32:34
I forgot. Okay. >> Um Yeah. Well, because I'm such a great outdoorsman. Um it just made sense.
00:32:39
>> I can't see you hiking anyway. We're going on a hike someday. Go ahead.
00:32:44
>> Anyways, these guys don't scare easily. They just end the law. The lawsuit's not
00:32:48
going to have any merit. It's just it might tie it up or delay it. But it just
00:32:52
adds another moving part to what is already going to be a complicated, messy situation.
00:32:56
The only thing that talks here is uh they got to put $354 a share on the table. They've got to
00:33:05
and not only that, it has to be incre the increase, the incremental offer has to be great enough to justify a
00:33:12
potential breakup where I believe WBB would have to pay Netflix $2 billion. >> Yes, exactly. And also the all those
00:33:18
loan covenant things they have to get their nose out of. They have to let Warner Brothers do those loan things.
00:33:22
>> So the only way this happens or something >> the only way this happens there's
00:33:26
they're not going to block this deal with lawsuits. The only way this happens
00:33:30
is if Larry Ellison goes, "Whatever. I'm 81 [ __ ] years old. I'm worth I don't
00:33:35
know. I think he's the third richest man in the world. I know. I know he's less
00:33:37
wealthy now. >> Yeah. >> But that he just says or Saudi money shows up and says, "Larry, if you're
00:33:44
willing to put in another 10, we'll put in another 10." And they show up with a
00:33:50
15% premium to the current offer. That's the only way the board is legally because of Revlon laws. Mhm.
00:33:56
>> I don't even think it can even be incremental. If it's a 3 or 5%, they
00:33:59
would say the additional risk injected into the deal and the breakup fee means that this is a wash and we we are just
00:34:06
going with this dance partner as committed. >> There was a really interesting note um
00:34:10
you know, you and I both know VB Nevo. He's so funny. He's a funny little guy.
00:34:15
Um uh who is a very big investor in a lot of stuff and he's he's he's very
00:34:20
amusing on many levels. um and uh has been a sort of a quiet whisperer to lots of mogul. He was sitting next to David
00:34:28
Zazoff at um which many people pointed out at the uh Golden Globes which was and not with and he's a he's a Warner
00:34:36
Brothers shareholder uh and not with David Ellison who apparently was seated in the back but as he's being insulted
00:34:42
by the host of a show that's on his network which I loved. Um I I it was really interesting. That was
00:34:50
a really interesting Zazoff sort of flexing a little bit there having Vivv next to him. Um and and and I think this
00:34:57
I get lawsuits are typical but it seems like not the way to do this. Like just give them the money. I just I keep going
00:35:03
and same thing that that that Bill says give them the money. Just give them the money. That will work. Why aren't they
00:35:09
giving them the money? That's >> Well, you mean offer more money. Yeah.
00:35:12
Offer best their bid. Top their bid. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, in 25 my big tech stock pick or my
00:35:17
stock pick was Alphabet. >> This year it's Amazon. Do you know what my stock pick in 24 was?
00:35:22
>> What? >> Warner Brothers. >> Oh, interesting. >> And at the end of the year it was down
00:35:27
10%. So, >> you had it now. >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, I thought these
00:35:31
assets will go. What will be interesting >> and this is going to come back to my
00:35:36
prediction. What will be interesting is I think all of these bankers and financeers figuring out they could in
00:35:41
fact they can in fact do whatever hundred billion dollars is a 12 figure deal >> once this thing is done or has left the
00:35:49
station you know who they're going to turn their sights on >> Disney >> 100%
00:35:54
>> Disney >> Disney's going to be put in play by somebody. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then I will be doing the
00:35:59
lovely exit interview with Robert Iger. Um, so yeah, I agree, but it has to be done. Interestingly, at the same time,
00:36:06
say Apple is the obvious candidate for that particular purchase%. >> There's going to be a new CEO at Apple
00:36:11
relatively soon and a new CEO at Disney. So those >> Which do you think will come first?
00:36:17
>> Disney. >> Huh. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Disney. I'm pretty sure I'm right.
00:36:22
Um, and but Apple's coming. Apple. Tim Cook has um has less less there from what I understand from people and is
00:36:31
starting to move away from it. I think he'll still be involved. No question.
00:36:34
Both of Well, maybe maybe I will sail away on his beautiful ships. But um but I think that they they're they're both
00:36:41
preparing. So whoever the CEO is is going to have to helm this thing and therefore be part of the decision
00:36:46
making, right? That's presumably you don't want to like here you go, I just
00:36:50
did a massive deal kind of thing. But in this case, just pay the money, Larry, or
00:36:55
not. Like, was [ __ ] or get off the pot is kind of the situation here. >> I think they should rename Disney to
00:37:00
strip mining nostalgia. >> God, we're so creative. We're going to put out a prequel, a sequel, an aquil, a
00:37:08
nightquil. >> Let me just say I'm going to I'm going to push back on that. Both Disney and
00:37:12
Apple have given us so this group these groups of people have given us so much great stuff over the many decades. It's
00:37:18
okay that they aren't perfect all the time. >> No. and so is Ford Motor and Dowo
00:37:22
Chemical. >> That's a long long time ago. Although, you know, as you know, I have a Chevy
00:37:27
Bolt and I love it. Um, anyway, so what's the next move, Mr. Board member, since I've never been on a board?
00:37:33
>> Well, what people don't realize around board dynamics, and this this is more
00:37:37
relevant or impactful as it relates to Chairman Pal. >> Chairman Pal, you know, he's off, he's
00:37:43
no longer the chairman as of uh May 2024, but you know who's in charge of the Fed?
00:37:48
>> 26. 26. I'm sorry. May 2026 and god damn it. >> Where does the time go? Cara,
00:37:56
>> the cat's in the cradle. >> Um, >> where does the time play with me, Scott?
00:38:02
>> Oh my Oh, wait. My I need to pee. That's right. It's 2026. Um, >> okay.
00:38:07
>> So, >> what's going to happen now? >> The only time I feel like I don't need
00:38:10
to pee is when I'm peeing. >> Anyways, just >> and now the stream is so weak. It's like
00:38:19
missed. It's literally >> You could be the anchor of CBS News with that line, but go ahead.
00:38:24
>> Don't trust the experts. Hey, Billy Bob [ __ ] Yahoo. >> Concerned with the audience of CBS is
00:38:30
concerned with whether they can figure out >> what did 4chan tell you. Um uh
00:38:36
>> what's going to happen here? We have to move on. >> Okay, so this is the thing. Why does
00:38:42
Trump want Chairman Pal out so badly and to resign? Because while his chairmanship expires in 3 and 1/2
00:38:49
months, >> he remains on the board of governors >> and he's influential
00:38:53
>> until 28. >> Mhm. >> Who do you think's going to control the
00:38:56
[ __ ] Fed next year? >> Chairman Pal. >> Chairman Pal. Cuz this is how boards
00:39:00
work. Cara. >> Yeah. >> Or what I've learned. First, there's
00:39:04
there's a quote unquote board meeting where we all sit around with the CEO in
00:39:07
the room and we eat salad and everyone listens to themselves talk and we approve. We does we do whatever the
00:39:12
[ __ ] CEO suggested. And the only time a board matters is two two times. You either hire and fire the CEO uh or you
00:39:21
decide if and when to sell the company. And usually when things get spicy, there's a second board meeting. And the
00:39:26
second board meeting is the board members who matter meet usually in the parking lot after the board meeting and
00:39:32
start talking because the dynamic on a board is the following. Everybody talks, everybody's smart, says their [ __ ]
00:39:39
poses for the cameras. It's a bunch of FIPS, formerly important people saying
00:39:43
intelligent things, you know, and then going back to the to the, you know, their country club in Naples. And then
00:39:50
one or two people, usually and then usually two people speak and everyone stops and listens and agrees with them.
00:39:58
And the two people are usually the following. The largest shareholder because bottom line is they control the
00:40:03
company. And especially if it's a private company and it might need more company, everyone kisses this guy's ass
00:40:07
and it's always a guy. And there's usually an exboard member. What I mean
00:40:12
by exo board member is there's someone who quite frankly has proven themselves
00:40:16
over the course of the last two, three, ten years on this board is just [ __ ] smarter than everybody else. Has more
00:40:22
graas. And when this person speaks, everyone just starts nodding their head. And guess who that person on the board
00:40:28
of governors regarding interest rate decisions is going to be? The chair communicates to Congress. The chair is
00:40:35
the visual figure head. But at the end of the day, the people deciding if interest rates go up or down, it's the
00:40:42
board of governors. And you can bet regardless of who the chair is in June of this year, everyone will talk. And
00:40:49
then chairman pal, probably one of the greatest economic minds in history, will say, "Yeah, these are all great points,
00:40:55
but I think we should keep interest rates where you are." You can bet the other board of governors are going to
00:41:00
decide I'm with chairman or former chairman or governor power. >> I got that. So here, let's go to Warner.
00:41:06
So, the board chair is a guy who used to be chief executive of Price Waters Cooper, right? And he's the one that's
00:41:12
been on TV. >> Um, saying there's uh where's the board of directors? Hold on, let me go. Let me
00:41:18
tell you. So, him, he's a white guy. David Zazz, Richard Fiser, independent director. Who was this guy? I don't even
00:41:25
know who this guy is. Um, served as president and chief executive officer of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. So,
00:41:31
big a big swinging. Um, so he's that's him. I'm sure it's a very competent
00:41:37
board, >> right? Okay. It is. I'm just saying. But who's who's that do? It's it's Zazoff,
00:41:41
right? Presumably is running the show here. >> Zazzled is Zaz Lee. Oh, shoot. That's
00:41:48
interesting. >> Zazoff has gained a tremendous amount of credibility because he's almost gotten
00:41:51
everybody's money back. >> Yeah, Ken Low is on it. Uh, wow. It's an
00:41:56
Anthony Notto's on that board. Oh, I know a lot of this board really well. >> Wow. Oh, Jeffrey Yang's on this board.
00:42:03
Malone. Malone. Malone's the big swinging dick on this board. Malone. >> Oh, Bob Malone's on this board.
00:42:08
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. He's the guy everybody listens to. John, I'm sorry. John Malone. He's the
00:42:11
guy. He's He's arguably the brightest guy or one of the brightest minds in the
00:42:15
history of medium. >> A couple of tech people. Jeff Yang, the the the venture capitalist.
00:42:19
>> I've been I've been that guy. I've been the tech guy they bring on. And over
00:42:24
over a while, just because we started a tech company doesn't mean we know how to
00:42:27
implement tech. >> I get it. But there are a couple of interesting people. Anthony was on it.
00:42:31
Uh Anton Levy is another person who's really interesting venture capital. They've got a lot of venture capital.
00:42:37
>> Anyway, >> I don't know. They're really The thing about Disney is there
00:42:40
>> Malone. >> There have been layoffs, but Disney's announcing so many remakes
00:42:44
>> that a bunch of original ideas have filed for unemployment. >> Oh my god. Okay, go. Anyway, moving on.
00:42:50
The FBI searched the home of Washington Post reporter Hannah Natson on Wednesday, seizing laptops, a phone, and
00:42:56
a smartwatch. Natson has spent the last three years covering the Trump administration's efforts to fire federal
00:43:00
workers. The search was part of an investigation, they say, into a Maryland system administration accused of taking
00:43:06
home classified intelligence report as a pretext. Frankly, the Washington Post has been told uh neither Natson nor the
00:43:13
outlet are the target of the investigation. The head of the editor of the Washington Post, Matt Murray, did a
00:43:19
terrific letter. Uh it took a while to hear from uh the CEO, uh Will Lewis. Jeff Bezos has not said word one and
00:43:27
he's getting enormous amounts of criticism for readers for remaining quiet in the hours following the news.
00:43:33
Um I think the newsroom leaders have been done the right thing and everything else, but this is this is a Trump
00:43:40
administration trying to really go for the press at this point um and going for their sources. Uh there's no reason to
00:43:46
take this woman's uh information on on another investigation and it's pretext
00:43:51
is is all it is. Uh, but Jeff Bezos not standing up is what another he's busy
00:43:55
partying in Aspen presumably, but another reason why he's a terrible owner for the Washington Post. You need to
00:44:01
stand up at times like this. >> Yeah, I stopped listening about 30 seconds ago. I'm bored. It matters.
00:44:06
You're just masturbating. >> You talk about democracy >> journalism. Where's my vibrator?
00:44:10
>> Journalism. You don't There's We have rules in this country. Why does Talk
00:44:13
about Bober? Hold on. No. Why does my stuff not m Why does press You talk about Are we married now? Why does my stuff
00:44:22
democracy. >> You don't touch me anymore. >> The press is an important part of this.
00:44:26
>> You don'tice. >> State media is is being created even as we speak. Jeff Bezos, if he wants to own
00:44:34
this fantastic newspaper still, despite his best efforts to make it suck, >> should stand up. Come on.
00:44:41
>> Yeah. I'm trying to think of what's what's less relevant than CBS. Oh, the
00:44:45
Washington Post. By the way, it is not >> relationship advice to the young men out
00:44:49
there. Women don't want money and height. They want follow-up questions. Follow-up questions. No,
00:44:54
>> they want Yeah, they do. Women want followup questions. They need They want
00:44:57
to be noticed. Let's talk about Bob. Just let me get a few Bob things back and then you can go back to talking
00:45:01
about how important the Washington Post is and how bad. >> It's not I'm not saying it's important.
00:45:04
It's an important moment that owners step up. >> No, no, no. It's terrible. What's going
00:45:08
on here? >> Oh my god. You're like literally when you're when you're reading Provda every
00:45:12
day and getting updates from >> I read Prada. >> I I'm sure you'll enjoy that. Yeah, I'm
00:45:19
getting a tattoo that says Al Jazer. Um, >> no, no, listen to me. This is He is I'm
00:45:24
going to ignore you completely. An owner the Grahams, Mrs. Graham went out on a [ __ ] limb all the time for this for
00:45:31
this country and so did Don Graham. >> Yeah. To your point, I probably shouldn't be glib about it. The
00:45:37
Washington Post reporter whose house was raided developed I guess over or it's
00:45:43
reported well over a thousand confidential sources inside a variety of government agencies. So,
00:45:50
this is an attempt not only an attempt to put a chill around the press, which is obviously totally contrary to
00:45:57
everything America is supposed to value, but it's really meant to unmask sources
00:46:01
and put a chill around anyone who talks to the press outside of normal propaganda channels.
00:46:08
Uh, it really is upsetting. Um, federal agents, they've knocked down the door of
00:46:14
the journalist. Her name is uh as you referenced Hannah Nathansson. The vet show up at her house. They don't
00:46:21
ask for a comment that they don't call her. They just kick down her door and
00:46:25
take her computer and her phone. So again, we just continue to find violations of the very principles that
00:46:32
America was founded on. >> Look, this is a long line in in in in media companies acquiescing to the
00:46:40
government. >> Thank you. CBS, whether it's CBS, whether it's making payoffs to him, whether it's
00:46:48
Sherry Redstone, whether it's whatever, Jeff Bezos is a long line of shitty owners of media.
00:46:54
>> I agree. We agree that he's probably I think he probably agrees that he
00:46:57
shouldn't have owned or bought the Washington Post. >> He should go and get his chin implants
00:47:01
or whatever he wants, but he shouldn't own. >> But here's the thing. Bob Iger, you
00:47:05
know, he doesn't ruin childhoods. He leases them back to you monthly. >> No, I'm not gonna sell. He's not evil.
00:47:12
He's worse. He's the kind of guy who can ruin something politely. >> No. No. The You don't have the child.
00:47:19
And you Disney is a wonderful does wonderful stuff as does do many people. Anyway, you're not going to get
00:47:25
the focus off of shitty Jeff Bezos. All right, Scott. We'll go on a quick break.
00:47:30
You don't You do not care for the things I >> You know, his big innovation was making
00:47:33
you pay $27 to skip a line so you can stand in a different line. That's his innovation. I When's the last time you
00:47:41
were at Disney? >> Oh, I So 364 days a year I do not show up for my kids and then
00:47:49
>> my partner says, "All right, [ __ ] You you're so I take my we haven't done it
00:47:55
in a couple years cuz now they go to they want to go to um Universal with their buddies and not have dad around."
00:48:00
>> Yeah, that's a good >> The only time I would go, they want to
00:48:02
go to Halloween night. I'm like, "I'll go." And they're like, "No, no, Dad.
00:48:04
You're not invited." >> Oh. Um, I used to take uh uh all the kids and their friends to Disney once a
00:48:09
year for a long time. >> Yeah. All right. But no longer. >> No, I haven't been in a while. Have you
00:48:14
been a >> help you? I've been on a Disney cruise. >> Oh, you've Oh, you've been We've been
00:48:17
with I've heard they're great. My kids wanted a Disney cruise with their
00:48:19
grandparents. >> It's endless soft serve. That's all I have to say.
00:48:22
>> I've heard it's fantastic. >> It's It's very good. It's very well
00:48:25
done. I I wanted to kill myself, but it it's very well done. >> Well, that's called a cruise.
00:48:30
>> Yes, exactly. It was endless. >> Actually, you're getting to that age
00:48:32
now, though. No, I'm not going to my boat. I'm not a boat >> and they have deals for you and your
00:48:36
nurse. >> Okay. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about
00:48:41
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Rules and restrictions apply. Scott, we're back with more news. Apple and Google have announced a multi-year
00:51:01
deal for Apple to base its AI products on technology developed by Google. Upcoming versions of Apple intelligence
00:51:07
be based on Gemini AI models powering Siri and other AI features. Alphabet stock jumped on the news, making it the
00:51:13
fourth publicly traded company to be worth over $4 trillion. Uh it's interesting because they did have a they
00:51:19
were mobbed up a little bit with open AI as you know uh for a little bit and now
00:51:23
they're and of course there's many criticisms of Apple uh being behind. Meanwhile, several publishers including
00:51:30
our own Vox Media, the Atlantic Penske Media are suing Google for antitrust violations over its dominant ad tech
00:51:36
business. There's a case happening too. Meta has named former Trump adviser Dena
00:51:40
Powell McCormack to serve as president and vice chair. McCormick. Uh Powell McCormack served as Trump's deputy
00:51:46
national security adviser during his first term. That's when I met her. Uh but President Trump posted truth social
00:51:51
congratulating Powell McCormack calling it move a great choice by Mark Z. Uh I I'll comment on that at the end uh
00:51:57
because I think she's highly competent. Um and she used to work for Goldman Sachs. I want to leave that out. Is a
00:52:01
married to Senator David McCormack of Pennsylvania. They are a power couple obviously. But talk about the Google
00:52:08
Apple thing and the um and the lawsuit. >> I think you know more about this than I
00:52:12
do care. I'm mentioning your thoughts. >> Uh I think you know Apple's been
00:52:15
criticized for being behind in this in the AI stuff. They haven't been developing it. They've been losing staff
00:52:21
in that way. Obviously they decided not to participate in the in the money spending in this area that Google and
00:52:27
others are doing. Um I think it makes sense they had they have strong relationships over mapping and and
00:52:33
search and everything else. And I think they may be um I don't know they they've gotten in
00:52:39
trouble over the mapping and everything and and the search making them the default search and so they may be just
00:52:45
doing it again right if Google and Apple do this I think they don't have the
00:52:49
capabilities and and you and then Gemini has gotten a lot better I have to say even on the on Google search when I use
00:52:55
it very rarely now so they have to be um mobbed up with an Apple because that's
00:53:00
where people get their information. Uh we'll see. I think it's in the in the
00:53:03
light of that there is still an adtech case by the federal government and then now this one. Um these people have
00:53:09
complained about Google but never done anything and now they've done it. Um I
00:53:15
think this is exactly what they should do is uh is sue them. I mean I've always
00:53:18
thought they should sue them in this regard. Google is on both sides of the ad trade uh and shouldn't be. Um and I
00:53:24
do think the case that the government has is a strong one um against Google. So any thoughts? Well, I thought I
00:53:31
thought Apple not entering into the capital wars of AI was a really deaf move because I thought they were going
00:53:38
to pull a search and say, "All right, you guys fight it out for search and we'll just sequester access to the most
00:53:45
valuable billion consumers in the world that really are the only >> They did that with maps, too,
00:53:49
>> right? They're really only the only So, what is it? There are now more phone
00:53:54
contracts than there are people on the planet and a billion of those or 1.2 two billion of those I think are iOS and
00:54:01
quite frankly they're the only people that matter because they're the only
00:54:03
people with money and when you carry an Android phone and I've said this for a
00:54:07
long time you're communicating to the world that things just quite haven't
00:54:10
worked out for you and so Apple and iOS is like is responsible for something like 80% of online commerce they just
00:54:18
spend you can get a free phone you can get an amazing phone and a free phone as long as it's Android and these things
00:54:22
cost 3 months salary in Hungary right now the iPhone it's the ultimate the ultimate signal as a as your worth as a
00:54:29
mate is whether you have iOS or not. And so what they do is they know the value of that. And they said to search, if you
00:54:36
want to be put in front of the billion most powerful consumers in the world, you got to pay us not five, not 10, but
00:54:40
$20 billion a year. I thought they were going to have the same type of leverage with these LLMs that one of these LLM
00:54:47
was going to pay them >> a massive amount of money to be the default. >> Well, that may be the case here. We'll
00:54:53
have to see. Right. But it look it looks like there it looks like it's sort of
00:54:56
that the the technology is so differentiated and they need it so much that Apple doesn't have the leverage at
00:55:03
least I thought because what it looks like it looks like they're going to actually pay my understanding is pay uh
00:55:09
Alphabet about a billion dollars to use Gemini. So the leverage has sort of switched
00:55:14
back to the provider here to the content as opposed to the distribution. What's interesting is why they've
00:55:20
decided to support I think they've decided I mean if you look at the market share
00:55:28
there's a couple things I've been giving all these talks about AI there's a
00:55:32
couple things about LLM market share that are just sort of interesting it's likely and obvious and understandable
00:55:37
that open AAI would be seating its 80 70% share that other people would be chipping away
00:55:43
>> and now it is Google's come up and they've come down >> and the two the two that have been
00:55:46
eating share have been one Gemini and two the LLMs the openweight LLMs coming out of China.
00:55:53
>> Mhm. >> And that's exactly right. >> It makes sense. >> And that's it by the way. That's it. The
00:55:57
others are not growing. And >> and by the way, Google search still gets about 90 times the the number of
00:56:02
queries. >> Yeah. >> Um just on a a different point, >> they've done a good job integrating AI.
00:56:07
They have there's no >> Greg Chau the CEO of section AI that upskills corporations for AI adoption
00:56:14
has said said something to me that I thought was really bang on. He said, "Of
00:56:19
the billion people out there that might use AI in the next couple years, only 40
00:56:22
million are going to be willing to pay it. So really, open AI right now is one of two one of two forks in the road.
00:56:30
They either get massive, massive enterprise adoption or they go bankrupt. He goes, there's no way there's enough
00:56:36
consumers willing to pay 20 or Google. Which one are you going to be? >> So anyways, but this is I think this is
00:56:41
a huge win for Alphabet. they're going to be put in front of the most valuable
00:56:46
consumers in the world or the ones, you know, the ones that have money. And I would imagine the reason they're doing
00:56:52
this is they're thinking that this is going to give an enormous boost to Gemini. So they either strategically
00:56:58
have decided they don't want OpenAI as a viable competitor and two they've also I
00:57:04
wouldn't be surprised. People forget these are people with enormous egos and
00:57:10
I say that in a good way. They are so they will not spend time with their families. They will ignore their health
00:57:15
because they want to win so badly and they want to be relevant in the world. And one way to do that is to be the CEO
00:57:20
of a company and beat everybody else. I would I wouldn't be surprised and I'm
00:57:24
I'm curious what your thoughts if Tim Cook quite frankly is a little pissed off at and this whole bromance of how
00:57:32
and the implication that open AI is going to build >> products. Yeah. And so and they've kind
00:57:38
of goo Alphabet for Apple is the devil is the devil they know. But this is going to absolutely elevate or
00:57:45
accelerate the market share of Gemini relative to um relative to Open AI. >> Mhm.
00:57:53
>> I didn't have a lot of insight there. >> No, you had a lot of insight. What? I
00:57:56
was just going to say you actually did have insight. Let me uh What about the lawsuit? Very quickly,
00:58:01
>> I don't have a view on it. >> Yeah. Well, they should sue >> they they should sue them. They've been
00:58:06
sucking away their value forever and and doing it in a in a monopolistic way. So,
00:58:11
yes, >> I'm up for any lawsuit against big tech at this point. >> Yeah, I like the law.
00:58:16
>> Oh, and then and then Dena, the way I read that and I'm curious to for you
00:58:21
>> I do know a lot about this, but go ahead. Yeah. >> Oh, so my my thing is that essentially
00:58:26
Meta and Jensen and Juan all realize one thing quote unquote she's not in charge
00:58:32
of partnerships with the government around data centers. She's in charge of figuring out a way to elegantly get them
00:58:37
the government to pay for it and ultimately bail them out. >> Yeah. >> Because their plans around data centers
00:58:43
even they cannot finance. >> Yeah. >> So what is she there to do? I think Dena
00:58:47
>> finance. >> Yeah. I think Dena is there to go >> to this, you know, Treasury Secretary
00:58:51
and the Commerce Secretary. You know why it makes sense for the government to issue bonds and backs stop $4 trillion
00:58:56
in debt for us? Because it'll grow the economy. And I think she's there with
00:59:01
the world's most elegant, biggest [ __ ] hat. >> Yeah. to try and get Trump to justify
00:59:06
and announce that he's going to backs stop. >> See, you know, you know, Scottree.
00:59:12
>> Yeah. Oh, I think so. I think she's there. She's a Goldman. I mean, they
00:59:14
they'd leave out. They a lot of the a lot of the reaction was, "Oh, it's a
00:59:18
stop to Trump." I don't think that's the case at all here. I think she's actually
00:59:21
a very deaf networker. She left the Trump administration rather early and has a very good reputation as a
00:59:27
networker. She was Goldman Sachs, very tight with those people. Um, was there for a long time. She's a she's she knows
00:59:34
everybody and actually across all party lines which is really interesting and so
00:59:39
I think Meta has has doesn't have much capital experience in figuring out how
00:59:44
to capitalize these things these data centers and has been very far behind. The other thing is you know I think the
00:59:51
SOP to Trump is too easy is too easy. I think she's the right person especially
00:59:55
if Trump starts to lose power. She is not uh she she is part she has been close everyone has to who's
01:00:03
participating has to be have a relationship with Trump but it's not she hasn't gone over the edge in the way
01:00:09
that some others have. Um so there's that I think she has some credibility with Democrats from what I can glean
01:00:16
>> she's now the head of the she's now the head of the big tech pack and she will
01:00:19
orchestrate the largest bailout for tech since co possibly or else figure out how
01:00:24
to capitalize this stuff, right? How to get the money for it, which is a bailout
01:00:28
if it comes from the government. >> Yeah. So, she the the other thing I think she has to avoid being is Cheryl
01:00:32
Samber too, right? Like seen as that way. Um and so >> I don't think she will though, unless
01:00:38
she's going to unless she's going to like >> claim, you know, well, let me just be
01:00:43
unless she's going to pretend to promote gender equality while depressing teens
01:00:47
all over the world. >> She will not. She's actually, interestingly, she's very close to Nikki
01:00:51
Haley. Um, uh, she's definitely a Republican, a very interesting background, but I agree with you. It's
01:00:57
all about the data centers. You're one. Good for you, Scott. Not knowing everything, you're absolutely financed
01:01:04
to start a paper. >> And actually, I love Aspen. >> As much as I hate to comment Mark Zer is
01:01:10
a very sharp choice. >> One of the better business minds of the last century.
01:01:13
>> Yeah, I got to say, he's made the right choices. He's made a lot of bad choices.
01:01:16
This one's a good one for him. Um, and it's too easy to say it's just to suck
01:01:20
up to Trump. It's not. It's absolutely not. It's a suckup to everybody. All
01:01:23
right. Uh Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Support for this show comes from
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shopify.com/pivot. Go to shopify.com/pivot. That's shopify.com/pivot. Here your first
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this new year with Shopify by your side. Okay, Scott, let's hear up prediction.
01:02:37
The only thing I want to say is >> I thought that XAI is disabled the ability for Grock to create sexualized
01:02:44
images of real people, including children, following a wide backlash. Um, it's pretty easy to generate those
01:02:50
debates, by the way. But I not I think I got it right that he was going to give up even though he was pretending he
01:02:56
wasn't on this stuff. Uh, I think he's going to continue to double down. That's
01:03:00
my prediction because like I don't know what else to say. this guy is a really
01:03:06
heinous character and he thinks he's equating free speech with sexualization
01:03:09
of children is really where we are right now with him and and that Apple I don't
01:03:14
think Apple and Google will do anything about it which they should have at the before this but he's backed off. So
01:03:21
there you have it. Maybe they did behind the scenes. I don't know. Go ahead.
01:03:25
>> Yeah. So we've been talking about Warner Brothers Discovery. It's about to go
01:03:28
into boring mode where they just try and get the CPHUS and antitrust and all the
01:03:32
lawsuits and reviews, you know, for the next >> 18 or 24 months. >> Yeah.
01:03:38
>> The next thing that's going to preoccupy us is there's going to be uh most likely
01:03:42
an activist because it's so big. But Disney's going to be put in play. >> The leadership transition here is
01:03:48
uncertain. Um he says Iger says he plans to retire but succession issues have traditionally invited shareholder
01:03:56
activism and a moment of a leadership change is an opportunity for an activist to kind of prop up and place the uh
01:04:02
>> have you been called Scott Galloway? >> There you go. Yeah. God I was literally
01:04:06
the world's worst athlete in the history of UCLA and I imagine I'm like the
01:04:10
world's worst activist. um uh they'll get pressure from activist investor whether it's whether it's
01:04:16
Nelson >> um you know this thing basically it's at its >> it's flat
01:04:23
>> in a market that's tripled or quadrupled it's flat over the last 10 years and you
01:04:28
look at this IP in these parks it's just there's very few companies that have
01:04:32
more assets than Disney right now >> nobody has it Warner Warner would be the
01:04:37
second but Disney's top you're right >> there's just something about
01:04:42
I mean look at Disney these parks these cruises are singular and Netflix can't
01:04:48
spin up a Disney park in two three decades it would take 50 years >> the obviously the IP here Marvel Star
01:04:55
Wars Pixar theme parks ESPN >> why flat then why is it flat then >> because they haven't been able to grow
01:05:01
earnings >> they just and um it's and there's just you can't get around it you'd have to
01:05:07
argue it's been poorly managed um you know it's How on earth is Intel worth
01:05:12
less than it was 25 years ago when it was the leader in microchips? I mean uh and also the thing the the biggest
01:05:19
reason why Disney will be put into play it comes from that movie what was it called Wall Street where
01:05:27
Charlie Sheen is saying why did you have to go after this company why do you want
01:05:30
to break this and he finally loses his [ __ ] and he goes because it's breakable
01:05:34
and Disney is breakable in the sense that unlike most media companies >> it has very modest anti-takeover or
01:05:41
poison pill provisions it >> it has an annually elected board it doesn't have a staggered board. Once you
01:05:46
get on a board and you decide, you know, we're smarter than everybody else, including our shareholders,
01:05:51
>> we'll start. I was on the board of Gateway Computer and we finally found a
01:05:54
[ __ ] bidder to buy that Joey bag of Donuts company and all the board members sat around and said, including the guy
01:06:00
who went on to be the governor of Michigan, they tried to put in a poison pill and they're like, we just want you
01:06:05
to come in through the front door. And I'm like, all the like Yahoo, you know,
01:06:10
farmsp speakak just means you think you're smarter than shareholders. you now think you own this company as
01:06:15
opposed to shareholders. Disney has not done that. That that means a bidder only
01:06:20
needs to persuade the majority of shareholders to replace directors which can make hostile approaches.
01:06:25
>> He's been through this. He has been through a few hostiles as you know with
01:06:28
Ike and a whole bunch of people. >> And also the other thing that I think's
01:06:33
lined up here is I think people look at Disney and go yeah [ __ ] a Disney someone should go in there and acquire
01:06:38
2% and be an activist. And that's probably what happens here. But what Warner Brothers has probably shown the
01:06:44
market that oh if you find the right right billionaire and the right the right pockets of money in the Gulf and
01:06:53
the right bankers really hungry for fees you can assemble this type of money and
01:07:00
there's so much money on the sidelines. >> Yeah. I don't think they'll let the
01:07:03
Saudis into this one. It's going to be an apple. It's going to be someone who
01:07:07
doesn't need the Saudi Hill. I'm just trying to think. >> Disney's an American brand. Such I mean,
01:07:13
Warner is too, but Disney there. There's no way. >> Aren't they opening They're opening a
01:07:18
Disney in the Gulf, right? >> They are, but it's they're not going to
01:07:20
let the Saudis own Disney. >> Well, I don't know. I think all you need
01:07:23
to do is make is give Mickey Mouse a beard and a moral and a morality police. Um,
01:07:30
>> okay. Who I think it's Apple. It's got to be Apple if they were if they had
01:07:34
set. Uh, >> by the way, can I make another prediction besides these? >> They just have to change the name of the
01:07:41
ride from It's a Small World to something like It's a Small World and more restricted that we live in. I I
01:07:48
think gosh >> I was at at this dinner uh that notice which is a really interesting new
01:07:53
publication here is do did and the far a pharma guy was there and as I was sitting here I thought because they're
01:07:59
doing pharma and tech are doing all these deals together whether it's open AI or all of them are doing deals these
01:08:05
health deals I think big tech is going to go after pharma next and own >> oh that's super interesting
01:08:12
>> I was like oh I I looked at him and he's going on and on about Trump or something
01:08:16
I said you know you're going to get owned by tech in the that you're the next frontier. They're
01:08:21
doing the media stuff, but it's nuts peanuts compared to you. And actually in
01:08:26
terms of doing great things, AI combined with pharma is an amazing huge opportunity. Thank you. That's But
01:08:34
anyway, >> I see I think actually the golf owning Disney is a bigger fit than you think.
01:08:39
Especially with Hold on. Especially with the Star Wars franchise. Desert Planets,
01:08:43
Dynasties, family drama. Done. fits perfectly. >> Okay. >> Um >> uh
01:08:49
>> they can have the golf. They're not getting Disney. So they can have golf
01:08:53
and tennis or whatever the hell, but not Disney. It's going to be hard. That
01:08:56
that'll be made. There'll be a lot of push back on that. >> Well, they I like that. I like that.
01:09:01
>> They'd have to ban gay days. They'd rebrand them as I imagination
01:09:04
maintenance closures. >> Also H No, that's on Warner. Right. He's rival on Warner. Um anyway, on HBO.
01:09:13
Yeah. Anyway, anyways, my prediction is >> Disney is about to be the object of our
01:09:17
obsession when it's most likely going to be an activist because it still is a
01:09:20
very big pill to swallow. But they have good for them. And I I hate I hate poison pill provisions and anything that
01:09:29
shifts shifts accountability and authority from shareholders to a bunch of people who think they're smarter than
01:09:33
everyone else on a board because they show up for a Cobb salad and get paid $300,000 a year called boards of
01:09:38
directors. You would not believe how arrogant we become when we be go on boards. I really
01:09:43
>> Okay, I'm going to go on a board this year. That's one of my little goals. All
01:09:46
right, board people. I'm interested. Anyway, uh that's a great prediction,
01:09:50
but are you and you you will and may steal my idea of tech buying big pharma. Okay,
01:09:55
>> but I just to come to your def I thought of you and you'll like this because it
01:09:58
makes you look good, but you got a ton of [ __ ] on one of the social platforms.
01:10:01
No, someone insulted me >> about my take on masculinity and then someone weighed in and said, "Yeah, and
01:10:08
we should have known this." He partners with Cara Swisser, who's been a total
01:10:13
total corporate shill for big tech >> and I thought immediately, >> yeah,
01:10:18
>> I've been on I've been on the nominating committee. When you go on a board and
01:10:21
they don't like you, i.e. Scott Galloway, >> um they put you on the stupidest
01:10:26
committee, they put you on the nominating and governance committee. And the one thing the nominating and I
01:10:30
always end up on the compensation committee because it's the worst [ __ ] committee or the absolute worst is the
01:10:35
audit committee because you have to do real work. >> But anyways, >> on the nominating governance committee,
01:10:39
the thing you do is find new directors when directors roll off and good >> good boards roll, you know, kick
01:10:45
politely have a conversation with his golf buddy who's been there 24 years. Maybe it's time for you to move on
01:10:50
>> or we talk to their nurse. But anyways, the >> I'm not exaggerating. I know exactly
01:10:57
what they're looking for in directors. You check every [ __ ] box, literally
01:11:03
and figuratively, except >> you're unafraid and you're a pain in the
01:11:08
ass. >> Pain in the ass. >> If you were not speaking truth to power and totally unafraid, I'm not
01:11:13
exaggerating. I think you'd be the chairman of [ __ ] OpenAI or Tesla right now. So the notion I think your
01:11:20
>> oh it's such >> your abrasive truth kind of tell truth to power has cost you cara hundreds of
01:11:27
millions of dollars. So for anyone on any social media platform, they can say they don't like you. They can say you're
01:11:33
arrogant. There's some truth, whatever. Fine. But to say that you are a corporate shill.
01:11:39
>> I know they do that. >> I don't know what the opposite is. >> I was close to Elon and wasn't. And they
01:11:43
just can't. These are these sort of sensor. >> And if you And if you'd stayed close to
01:11:47
him and kissed his ass, you'd be the you'd be on the board of Tesla and $200
01:11:51
million news. That's what >> And I'd be standing at your place in Soho.
01:11:55
>> Exactly. I know. I'm aware. I'm aware. Most of the criticism I get is from
01:11:58
being with you. Anyway, uh we we don't care that we're shrill or dislikable or
01:12:02
anything else. We don't care. Um we want to hear from you. Send us your questions
01:12:06
about business tech or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a a question for the show or
01:12:11
call 855 uh51 pivot. Yes, we do not care because we like ourselves and we like each other. That's the way it's going to
01:12:19
go. You're not going to split us up. We are going to do that ourselves. Okay,
01:12:22
that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe
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to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week and happy Martin Luther King
01:12:29
Jr. Day to everybody.