00:00:00
To take a product like this that is not broken and break it, at some point you have to wonder what it's all about.
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>> They've decided to perform open heart surgery on the healthiest person in the
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franchise. >> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:17
Network. I'm Carara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Galloway. >> The big story in media this week is 60
00:00:22
Minutes correspondent Scott P is out at CBS. Py's firing came after he accused
00:00:26
CBS News chief Barry Weiss of murdering 60 Minutes according to leaked audio from staff Mini also told the show's new
00:00:33
EP Nick Bilton a longtime tech journalist and filmmaker someone I know that his qualifications run 60 Minutes
00:00:38
it's run 60 minutes for slender that is accurate sent P a letter on Tuesday saying he'd been terminated for cause
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effective immediately it was a terribly written letter Nick it really was an embarrassment to you Barry Weiss later
00:00:50
sent an editorial call that P was fired because the foundation of trust had been
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broken after his firing though Ellie wrote in a statement, "Incompetence and
00:00:56
unprofessionalism and the new management have wre havoc." He also wrote a response to her letter and what she was
00:01:01
saying to the staff and then recounted word for word. He looks like he must have taken notes during the whole thing
00:01:07
exactly what happened and said basically called them liars about that they didn't
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try to get together. I thought Py should not mess with this guy. He's a really
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good reporter and they are. They're they're being disingenuous. I think menacious actually. Uh this is the guy
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Tom whatever his name is. all of them. They're just they're really they're
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they're lathering themselves in dishonor. Um 60 Minutes has been on the air since 1968. I just you know you're
00:01:31
not a media person. This is of course illuminating media people. One of my disappointments here is the journalism
00:01:36
is getting lost in all of this drama. This is not this is not nobody's talking
00:01:40
about the stories which is what 60 Minutes has been astonishing about. And the fact that they could just that he
00:01:46
was asking normal questions. Why did you fire all these really good people, including Tanya Simon, who ran the show
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and took it to new heights, why did you fire these other correspondents, Cecilia
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uh Vega and uh Sharon Alonsy, why did you fire them? And they wouldn't give an
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answer. And I think it's very appropriate that he asked and they were trying to act like he was that he was
00:02:06
throwing a tantrum. He absolutely was not. I'm sorry, he wasn't. He was being
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a reporter. So, your thoughts? Yeah, I don't so you know my view. I I think media and journalists tend to
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think they're more precious than they are. And I don't buy the notion that
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journalism is I I understand that the chill that the Trump administration is trying to put on different outlets. And
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I have heard from producers that it has created a chill, but I I've said this
00:02:31
before. I wish the Washington Post would just go away already. I'm sick of talking about it because I do think the
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most talented journalists I think there's a huge ecosystem of interesting companies doing great work
00:02:40
>> and 60 Minutes uh I think the world would survive without it. Having said
00:02:45
that, I just look at it through a business lens when you're in an industry that's in structural decline and you
00:02:50
have a product that's up 9% yearon year. You don't [ __ ] with it, >> right? And building and doing well
00:02:55
digitally. That was disingenuous in their memos. It's doing very well digitally actually.
00:03:01
It's literally like, okay, Phil Jackson's job of the Chicago Bulls wasn't to be the boss and disrupt the
00:03:06
Bulls. It was to get along with Michael Jordan. The job of CBS management right now is to get along with 60 Minutes.
00:03:13
>> I think it's a little more serious than that cuz I think you're leaving out the
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Trump thing. I each of these people have said that these particular managers are
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trying to [ __ ] with the stories to try to shade them. P is making this allegation. Sharon made this allegation
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publicly. Uh uh uh Cecilia Vega made this. These are very professional people. These are the top of their game,
00:03:35
right? It's not like whiny right this they're not being whiny righteous.
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They're like what are you doing? Like these are they're doing great work
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>> and then you [ __ ] with them like because and then the excuse is >> and by the way I'm sorry.
00:03:49
>> I don't know Barry Weise. I do know Nick Bilton. None. You are not qualified
00:03:54
compared to these people. I wouldn't be qualified to run this. Right. like the
00:03:58
fact that they think they can give instructions to these people. I I I wouldn't have the arrogance to think I
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was better than them. And the excuse they're using is that um the excuse they're using is that well we're going
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to we're going to fix it before it goes downhill. That's their excuse. Well,
00:04:13
it's inevitably going to go downhill and therefore we're going to fix it. Let me
00:04:16
tell you, I have more digital experience than both of you and you are you have don't know what you're talking about
00:04:22
because first of all, you're being disingenuous about their digital stuff which is doing okay. And secondly, this
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is not the way to do it by wrecking it. This wreck it in order to save the village. We're going to bomb the village
00:04:33
to save the village. This is nonsense on every level. And I am someone who knows
00:04:38
more than both of them put together. And I still have room for more. And I'm a
00:04:43
I'm I'm an actual journalist. Nick is a journalist. I'm still higher on the food
00:04:48
chain than he is. I'm sorry. And one of the things is that they're not talking
00:04:52
about the journalism. And these three people that they fired and Tanya Simon are amazing journalists and they should
00:04:59
thank them for their existence and instead because they need to shade things with the and I do believe these
00:05:04
reporters they are trying to shade the news in in in service of Trump and therefore there are minions to the
00:05:09
powerful owners who own them which are the Ellison's and that's where the real
00:05:12
problem is is these people are these people are have a whole another game going on and it's it's take to take a
00:05:19
product like this that is not broken and break it is at some point you have to wonder what it's all about. That's
00:05:26
>> they've decided to perform open heart surgery on the healthiest person in the
00:05:29
franchise. It's just >> excellent way to put it. >> And I I I don't know Nick well, but I've
00:05:34
been on his podcast. I think he's a talented produc a talented journalist. I
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don't >> but in my view, >> I'm not sure a journalist should be
00:05:41
running it. I think it should be a Jeff Zucker-like character who has tremendous
00:05:44
respect for journalism, right? >> But quite frankly, it's just a really
00:05:47
strong manager. I think the person that shows up to 60 minutes says, "How can I
00:05:52
help? Well done. Call me when you when how how can I help?" But the what the
00:05:57
the narrative they're putting out there is the following. You disrupt from a
00:06:02
point of strength. Okay? As someone who teaches strategy, these people don't
00:06:07
they're using the wrong words. Disruptors are small companies that go after fat incumbents and start eating up
00:06:14
from a small niche. >> That is absolutely true. to say that is to say that well CBS News which is
00:06:19
hemorrhaging people should stay the course then what I think the word he's looking for there's some excuse if he
00:06:26
said it's an amazing place we want to continue what we're doing but we're also
00:06:30
just we don't ever want to be fat and happy we want to innovate he's using the
00:06:34
wrong words the last thing you do at the one place that's working is disrupt it
00:06:40
that's not that's not what you do but I want to move on I've got an idea and I'm
00:06:44
I'm literally gonna text Ted Sarandos. I think there's an enormous opportunity. If I were Ted
00:06:51
Sarandos, >> I'd hire all these pink people. >> I would call Scott P and Anderson Cooper
00:06:55
and say, "I'm going to pay each of you $10 million. You hire whoever the [ __ ]
00:07:00
you want, including executive producer, and Netflix is going to put out something called the hour and it's going
00:07:04
to be every week." >> Yeah, that's our online. Yeah, I think it's a great We are going to move on.
00:07:07
This is the only thing I have to say is this is not how you fix. This is not what you do. And by the way, here's what
00:07:13
I would the advice I would give is let's see what you can do. So far, the results
00:07:17
are bad at CBS. Everything's going down, down, down. Your shows are losing people. The other shows, by the way, ABC
00:07:24
and NBC are gaining. So, you're doing something. Your changes are not working.
00:07:29
Secondly, and again, I like Nick Bilton. I do. I do. I know a lot of people. He's
00:07:34
very controversial. He gets a lot of attacks. I like Nick Bilton. He needs to show results. If you're going to do
00:07:40
something, don't come in and tell everybody like give them lectures about digital disruption. Make changes, make
00:07:46
them with respect and have just let's see the results. This feels so Chris Likian that like he kept talking more
00:07:54
than he was doing. And so I feel like results are all that matter. Get in there, do good journalism, and then come
00:08:01
out the other side. And otherwise, and again, I'm sorry. I'm not qualified to
00:08:05
run this place. And these people should not be running this place. That's I don't know what else to say.
00:08:10
>> Yeah. But to be fair, and you know these people better than I do, I think Nick I
00:08:17
think they poured honey on Nick and sent him hunting for >> Correct. I think they sent him for him.
00:08:22
>> They sent him into an impossible situation. >> Right. Right. And I would like to hear
00:08:26
Nick's side of this story quite frankly and I think he's coming on the pod. But
00:08:32
look, the only way this person is successful is to show up and say just a few things.
00:08:39
I will do my I will quit the moment I you come to me and say protect me from outside political influences that are
00:08:48
hurting my journalism. I will I will be your heat shield. I'm committed to that.
00:08:52
>> That's not what's happening here. >> I agree. But I think he needs to say
00:08:55
that. >> Yeah. >> And if he can't if he can't say that, he shouldn't he shouldn't take the job.
00:09:00
>> Yeah. >> And two, I recognize this this institution is more storied and more
00:09:04
credible than my resume right now. I am a talented, thoughtful person. I'm going
00:09:09
to do my best to provide you with the resources and the ideas should you want them to make this an even stronger
00:09:15
institution. But you call me. >> I get it. I still don't I think qualifications matter and you need to
00:09:21
hire someone who has more qualifications in this area who's done television who's
00:09:25
managed big teams. That's I'm sorry you just you don't just give a like you just
00:09:30
don't you just don't and again full of great interesting ideas. I agree with
00:09:34
you, but you don't give a job to someone who doesn't have the experience to run
00:09:37
it. And I >> Okay, I'm going to I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there have
00:09:42
probably been people with with lesser qualifications who've also been asked to
00:09:48
run important media properties. This isn't about this isn't as much about his qualifications. It's about the
00:09:55
context and how they've gone about this. If this had been a different situation
00:09:59
at a different time, and someone with that qu those qualifications had come in and said, "Look, I promise to protect
00:10:04
you from outside political influence that gets in the way of your journalism, I realize I'm in over my head. I hope
00:10:09
you're patient with me. I'm going to do my best to help you continue. I think
00:10:13
that person could be successful distinct of their lack of qualifications." >> If he was working for people who haven't
00:10:19
been accused of meddling, you know, I mean, and and the Ellis themselves, >> but that's not him. That's a bigger
00:10:24
issue. >> Yes, but he's work he took the job with them. So anyway, it's not Nick's fault.
00:10:27
You're absolutely right. It's not Nick's fault. >> But what you're saying is it's doomed.
00:10:30
Anyone's doomed and and that might be a fair point that there's no way for
00:10:34
anyone to be successful right now. >> I think in this case it is. I think they
00:10:37
have another there's another game of foot here that is nothing to do with they want to wreck this thing. That's my
00:10:43
>> You're saying it's being it's being turned into and this is this is the most
00:10:47
damning thing several people have said who've exited the organization. It's
00:10:52
being perverted and queered from a great journalistic operation that is arguably
00:10:56
one of the most successful the perhaps is the most successful TV show of its kind in history. It's being used uh
00:11:03
basically to become propaganda for the Trump administration. >> That's correct. That's correct. I and I
00:11:08
I I usually go away from those things, but it feels like Edward Aruro, remember when he got screwed? You know what I
00:11:13
mean? Like this is it has that feel to it. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But
00:11:17
let me just tell you, Scott, and I don't know Scott. Uh I I I don't know Cecilia.
00:11:22
Uh although I I'm looking forward to meet her. I think Sharon's I is terrific. They're all terrific
00:11:27
journalists and I believe them. I'm sorry. I believe them over they're just
00:11:32
really good and all the people there and I've talked to lots of people at at
00:11:35
>> Netflix presents the hour. >> Yeah, I love it. The hour the hour 59
00:11:39
minutes. Anyway, all right. Um speaking of >> 3600 seconds. >> 7600 seconds. You know, this this idea
00:11:45
of lack of qualifications. I'm sorry. I'm I'm sort of obsessed with it.
00:11:48
President Trump named Bill Py who runs the Federal Housing Finance Agency as the new acting director of national
00:11:54
intelligence replacing Tulsi Gabbard who's stepping down. Py is best known for accusing several of Trump's enemies
00:12:00
of mortgage fraud, none of which went anywhere, including New York AG Leticia James. He has no known experience in
00:12:06
intelligence. I'm not sure he's intelligent. Defense or national security. He's called little Trump.
00:12:11
That's his qualifications. It's unclear whether Trump will ask the Senate to
00:12:14
confirm PY by law. Anyone nominated for this role must have extensive national security expertise. Republicans are
00:12:20
attacking him. Uh you saw several Republicans saying he has no expertise. Democrats, especially like our friend
00:12:26
Mark Warner, is losing his mind over this. Um this this it's not the same. Nick is very
00:12:33
confident, but this guy is incompetent. This guy is incompetent at this job. And
00:12:37
all he does is like, you know, he's he like steps on a rake every five minutes
00:12:42
and hits his head. I mean, and the same thing with Todd Blanch, who he Trump caved on his slush fund. Acting attorney
00:12:48
general Todd Blanch, who was Trump's personal attorney, says the DOJ is abandoning plans for that $1.8 billion
00:12:54
fund to compensate people who claim they were unfairly investigated. It was a rare instance of congressional
00:12:59
Republicans pushing back and winning. Uh Trump is still getting uh cart blah on his tax issues um through this deal. I
00:13:05
can't believe that where we're giving him free a free pass there. Your thoughts?
00:13:10
>> So, some context. The reason the position was created, the director of national intelligence was after 9/11,
00:13:17
policymakers concluded that there was a lack of coordination amongst our 18 intelligence agencies. So there was
00:13:24
there was really there was really great intelligence pre 911 that something like
00:13:28
this might happen, but the lack of coordination meant the right information didn't bubble up to the right people in
00:13:33
time. And I don't think it's fair to call him incompetent. He's just not
00:13:36
qualified, which is kind of the same thing. But I >> incompetent to this task. Agreed.
00:13:42
Agreed. So, let's just let's just review the past directors of national intelligence, their background.
00:13:50
So, let's start with Tulsi Gabbard to be fair. Combat veteran, military officer,
00:13:54
member of Congress, House Armed Services Committee. Uh, Averil Haynes, deputy CIA
00:14:00
director, deputy National Security Adviser. Um, John Rackcliffe, Congressman, House Intelligence
00:14:05
Committee member, former federal prosecutor. Dan Coat, >> now head of the CIA, by the way. Go
00:14:09
ahead. Van Coats, Senator, Ambassador to Germany, member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. James Clapper,
00:14:15
former under secretary of defense for intelligence, decades of military intelligence. Dennis Blair, fourstar
00:14:22
admiral, former commander of US Pacific Command, overseeing uh Indo-Pacific military operations.
00:14:28
Mike McConnell, former director of the NSA, vice admiral, career intelligence professional. John Negropod, 40-year
00:14:34
diplomat, ambassador to Iraq, UN ambassador, director of national intelligence, created after 9/11
00:14:40
reforms. And Bill Py, I I'm going to say this, he's a rich kid. He'll build
00:14:46
[ __ ] homes in Fort Meyers. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And he might be a nice man. He might be
00:14:50
very competent. He might be a brilliant businessman. He's 38 and he picks out
00:14:54
subzer for homes and retirement communities. And >> that's a big job. That's a big job,
00:14:59
Scott. >> Well, okay. No, I'm teasing the notion that look, this is going to put our our
00:15:05
our servicemen and service women in in harm's way danger unnecessarily and recklessly too. Do you think the MOSAD
00:15:14
or MI6 are going to continue to share information with our intelligence agencies?
00:15:19
>> They must be cheering in Russia and China right now. >> And also, I I I think the American
00:15:23
public is guilty of this. So I don't think the American I think the American
00:15:25
public has taken for granted the depth, experience and commitment of what is the
00:15:31
best performing organization in the world and that is the US government and how deep the expertise is.
00:15:36
>> Expertise yes >> of people who decide to forego a lot of wealth and lifestyle to go to work for
00:15:43
our our intelligence community, our government, our diplomatic corps, our defense department. And we're putting in
00:15:50
in one of the most dangerous thing that is now starting to bubble up as we see in missteps in Iran and and other
00:15:56
places. >> They're unprepared for their meetings. They're settling in Jared Kushner and
00:16:00
Steve Witoff. Are you kidding? They This is what Hillary was saying. They're
00:16:03
running circles around us. The Iranians send in like very qualified people to these negotiations and instead we send
00:16:10
in people that didn't have any idea they were going to close the straight of
00:16:12
Hormuz. like why would it occur to them since they're not this is this lack of
00:16:17
expertise and I'm it is a real thing. It's like you know it's like someone
00:16:21
coming to me and saying I think you need to lead the New York Knicks to victory.
00:16:24
It's like no like I have no qualifications to do so and this kind of thing. The the reason he was hired two
00:16:31
reasons I think is one he's called little Trump. Um he's listen I don't
00:16:35
think he's a nice person. I've seen him interviewed. He's he seems like an idiot
00:16:39
but besides he seems like a pompous ass. I think he was selected so Trump can control the whole thing. He has to put
00:16:46
these mi unqualified minions into place. It's always the case with anyone who
00:16:51
puts someone who's not qualified in place, which is they want to control the
00:16:54
situation. And Trump himself is unqualified to run this situation too, by the way. Um, and and this is what
00:17:02
what happens. And it's very dangerous. Same thing with Todd Blanch. He was his
00:17:05
lawyer and now he's doing his his uh his gut work for him essentially. this this
00:17:11
slush fund. Are you kidding? Like giving him, you know, carton in in taxes. >> Terrorist immunization fund.
00:17:18
>> Correct. That's correct. Yeah. The private militia fund is what I call it.
00:17:23
>> Yeah. I I I never miss an opportunity to try and sound important. I've been on a
00:17:27
p bunch of public boards and a general unwritten rule. So, think about it. The CEO answers to a board that's supposed
00:17:34
to be a fiduciary for all shareholders. The president, everyone needs a boss. Everyone should and does answer to
00:17:41
somebody. The president no longer answers to co-equal branches of government. Uh Republican Congress has
00:17:48
been neutered. You know, the speaker of the house is basically uh just doing he's he's just doing the dirty work for
00:17:55
the president. He's not he's not in any way giving his Republican colleagues a
00:17:59
seat at the table here. He's trying to run rough shot over them based on what
00:18:02
the president wants. The Supreme Court, I would argue, has been um politicized. I think a series of appointments have
00:18:10
created certain decisions that I would argue uh don't have a hell of a lot of
00:18:14
fidelity to the constitution but to conservative values or what the president wants. Not always. I do think
00:18:20
they do hold a line on some things but I would argue that it is no longer uh oversight for the president. The only
00:18:27
people that provide any sort of checks and balance for Trump right now are are are voters. And the first thing you
00:18:36
notice on a board or one of the first things you notice with experienced board members in terms of how they evaluate a
00:18:41
CEO is a lot of CEOs have had to be in a closet in a knife fight for so long to get to where they are that a lot of CEOs
00:18:49
have a tendency to shoot talented people on their team who might be the next CEO.
00:18:54
And you end up with a talented CEO who has a really weak infrastructure of senior managers. And one of the first
00:19:02
tests on a board to see if a CEO is a good CEO is how often is he bringing in, highlighting, and praising other senior
00:19:09
managers. And if he were or she were to get hit by a bus, if you're running a
00:19:14
public company and there aren't two or three people that could potentially be
00:19:17
the CEO, you are not a CEO. And you see it all the time. You see these CEOs who all of a sudden start shooting talented
00:19:26
people who are recruited away to go be the CEO of another company because it was clear they were not. Your job as a
00:19:34
CEO is immediately say to the most talented people I'm going to be here 3 4 8 years and if you stick around there's
00:19:40
a shot you're going to be CEO and I'm going to help prepare you to be CEO of
00:19:43
this company or somewhere else. >> It never h it's got it always happens
00:19:45
this way. They always sort of amass power. They don't want to be replaced. They shoot their minions in the in the
00:19:52
head just so they can stay. >> I've worked with some CEOs who who are very good at maturing maturing managers
00:19:59
and recognize it's a responsibility to I think Tim I think Apple has five potential CEOs.
00:20:04
>> I think more common is the CEO who cannot be replaced. It's >> but a good board a good board makes that
00:20:11
part of the compensation criteria. >> Right. >> Are you are you putting in place really
00:20:16
strong succession planning here? the president. I mean, it's just it's just
00:20:22
insane. There is absolutely I just love the fact that everyone's talking about
00:20:26
Rubio or Vance. President Trump is [ __ ] Chernobyl. If you stick around him long enough, you die of political
00:20:32
leukemia. The notion that he gives a [ __ ] people along. >> He would rather see the Republican party
00:20:40
burn to the ground. >> I That's what I now believe cuz he doesn't care. He doesn't care about
00:20:44
>> give a [ __ ] about the Republican party for him to like invade. I don't know. He
00:20:48
wants everyone to go, oh, he wants everyone to say, oh, this Republican party is nothing without Trump. He'd
00:20:54
rather see them go down in flames. He'd rather see AOC president to go down in
00:20:59
flames because he he wants it not to outlive him. Anyway, really interesting time, but please people who aren't
00:21:05
qualified, don't do jobs. Don't don't don't. >> At least in national security, I say go
00:21:10
for jobs you're not qualified for, unless it's the DNI. >> Let me just tell you, guess what? You
00:21:14
would do a better job as director of national security. Keep saying that as an example of how terrible Trump
00:21:19
administration. >> Is this after is this after I run for mayor of Los Angeles? That's the last
00:21:25
job. >> It could be a good job. I think it'd be good at that. Anyway, >> the mayor of Los Angeles has no power.
00:21:29
It's a terrible job. It's almost impossible to govern. >> Put you there because you could swan
00:21:33
around with the rich people and you love an Oscar party. >> I do like that. I do like swaning.
00:21:36
>> Can I just say speaking of Oscar parties? So, I was at this dinner for the Tbeca Film Festival and B. Miller
00:21:41
was sitting two doors down, like two seats down, >> and she listens to Pivot, and she's
00:21:46
lovely, by the way. She's great. >> And she leans over Bloomberg to me, and
00:21:49
she goes, "Let me just tell you something." In her B Midler voice, and
00:21:52
she goes, >> "I don't want you to get a big head. You went to the Oscar party, Cara."
00:21:56
>> And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't go to the Oscar party. I said that." I said, "Bet
00:22:00
Midler, it was Scott that went to the Oscar party." And she goes, "Oh, you
00:22:05
know, she does that voice of her. She goes, oh, I still don't want you to get
00:22:08
a big head." And I'm like, "I didn't go to the Oscar party. I stayed home. I
00:22:11
watched the Oscar with my kids. Like, what do you totally I got accused of Scott things by that Midler.
00:22:17
>> Well, if it makes you feel any better, at about 11:30, I got anxious and I went
00:22:20
home and raided the mini bar and drank myself to sleep. >> Okay. All right. Anyway, let's go on a
00:22:25
quick break. When we come back, California primary results. >> Support for the show comes from Core. AI
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corweave.com/ ready for anything. Scott, we're back with more news. Let's
00:23:26
get into the primary races of California. What a [ __ ] mess this is. As we record in Wednesday, ballots for
00:23:31
California's governor's race are still being counted with Republican Steve
00:23:34
Hilton and Democratic uh Xavier Bera in the lead. In Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass holds the lead in results, but it
00:23:41
became the first city's first city mayor since 20 2005 to fail to earn 50% of
00:23:45
votes required to avoid a runoff. As we tape, the race for the second runoff spot is too close to call with Spencer
00:23:51
Pratt currently in the lead. Let's listen to a clip we got from co-founder of Run for Something, Amanda Litman,
00:23:56
about the situation. >> Hi, Cara. Hi, Scott. So, I will say it's still a little early to have some hot
00:24:01
takes on the California election results. We'll know more at the end of the day today on Wednesday. However, a
00:24:06
few things I am noticing. How much money does or does not matter. You know, Thomas Dyer spent upwards of 200 million
00:24:12
of his own dollars on this campaign, maybe more, seems like unless the results come back
00:24:17
differently and the ballots are counting now, he's not going to make it to November. Meanwhile, down in LA, Spencer
00:24:23
Pratt, even if he doesn't make it all the way to the runoff, we'll see how
00:24:26
these ballots come in for Nithia, really modeled a new way of doing this. Mega viral userenerated AI videos. Um,
00:24:34
breaking through with really authentic video, capitalizing on the honestly candidate agnostic media ecosystem the
00:24:40
right has built. We have to be prepared for this. We cannot just spend our way into victory. We have to capture
00:24:46
attention in order to win. That means interesting candidates. That means engaging messages. That means sometimes
00:24:51
a little bit more risk tolerance. We've got to be willing to lean in and be a little bit more unscripted. And
00:24:56
that is something that is very, very hard for Democrats to do, but is the only way we're going to be able to
00:25:02
capture the voters we need this fall. >> Interesting. That's very smart. I agree
00:25:06
with her. I got to say, we talked a little sort of about Graham Platner. The same thing is that, you know, are you
00:25:11
going to expect perfection or results essentially? Uh, thoughts on this thoughts on this situation in
00:25:16
California? My son voted for Tommy Styer. Interesting. I think I shouldn't say that, but I think that's how he
00:25:21
voted. >> Yeah, but I I actually like people the story will be about Tom Styer couldn't
00:25:26
spend a quarter of a billion dollars to get into a runoff. It reminds me a little bit of Meg Whitman's campaign for
00:25:30
>> Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? >> And that is on paper they're very
00:25:33
attractive candidates, but for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with
00:25:36
voters. And I actually think it's a good thing when the the biggest funer it
00:25:40
doesn't win. I think that that's actually a a positive. >> But the biggest loser in this Fair
00:25:45
wasn't Tommy Styer. It's the California Democratic establishment. California is
00:25:50
the bluest large state in America. Yet the dominant issues weren't about bodily
00:25:55
autonomy, Trump or democracy. It was affordability, housing, energy costs, insurance, homelessness. And when voters
00:26:02
are talking about quality of life issues and cost of living, ideology takes a backseat to competence. And Democrats
00:26:09
are not perceived as the party. >> That is true. very >> and national candidates need to take an
00:26:15
a page here >> and start like JB Pritsker is really focused on [ __ ] like upgrading the bond
00:26:21
rating of Illinois bonds. That shit's important. It's boring but it's really
00:26:25
important. Um so Styer the story will be Styer just proved money is is overrated
00:26:31
right now >> if you're not a compelling candidate. >> And Hil Hilton success is a symptom not
00:26:36
the story. He's not winning because California became conservative overnight. He's benefiting
00:26:41
He's benefiting again from something much more dangerous for Democrats who think the current model just isn't
00:26:46
working. So what does California have right now? The highest housing costs in America, some of the highest energy
00:26:52
prices, persistent homelessness despite enormous spending, net uh out migration over much of the last decade. And you
00:27:03
know, these are governance problems, not ideological problems. and Hilton and to
00:27:08
a lesser extent Pratt are vessels for that frustration in >> I think that's a very cany way to put
00:27:14
it. They aren't they aren't the they aren't something fresh. They're not
00:27:18
rushing towards them. They're reacting against something. >> This is why mothers voted for Trump who
00:27:25
have traditionally voted Democratic. If your son's in the basement playing video
00:27:28
games and vaping, you don't give a flying [ __ ] about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender
00:27:32
rights. And at some point when there are homeless people everywhere, despite reports it's costing taxpayers $70,000
00:27:38
per homeless person, >> you don't care about how thoughtful. You don't want someone cosplaying Obama.
00:27:46
>> You want someone who says, "I'm going to come in and I'm going to be a lifestyle
00:27:50
and focus on competence and getting [ __ ] done." And by the way, anyone who does
00:27:55
an ounce of due diligence around which I've done a little just started doing
00:27:58
around what it means to govern in LA, all of the ship posting and criticism, a lot of it fair. The mayor baskets, a lot
00:28:07
of it is unfair because some of it is about bureaucracy at the FEMA level. And good whoever wins the mayor of LA, a lot
00:28:15
of this you it's actually the president of the LA county and the board of supervisors that have all the power. LA,
00:28:21
similar to you could argue about California, has become ungovernable. But until Democrats at an executive
00:28:30
level start showing they can improve the quality of people's life and offer them
00:28:35
good value for the money, every state is a product. You pay for it in taxes, you
00:28:39
expect a product. And right now, there's just no getting around it. Democratically products aren't gaining
00:28:46
share, they're losing share. >> To be fair, homelessness is an intractable problem. It's one of these
00:28:50
most difficult problems in California gets because of the weather and because people want to go there, you know, Los
00:28:56
Angeles particularly. It's a it's a great place to be homeless compared to
00:28:59
like I don't know Montana or somewhere else. >> It's really bad. >> It is really bad. It is. But it there's
00:29:05
all these problems like where do you begin? Because it's such it's also an
00:29:08
interrelated problem. So they have the worst problem >> of the worst of a terrible problem
00:29:14
that's already hard to fix in an easy even if you had minor homelessness. And
00:29:18
it's again, it's a complicated, multifaceted issue that you have to do piece by piece. And I don't think any I
00:29:24
mean it I don't think if Spencer Pratt, he's just going to arrest them. That's
00:29:28
not going to work. That's not going to that's not going to fix anything.
00:29:30
>> It's not going You're right. It's not going to work. And and and by the way,
00:29:32
your house burning down isn't a qualification to be mayor. >> No, not at all.
00:29:36
>> The silver lining. She's right. She's he's good. He's good at the the stuff.
00:29:40
>> Oh, he's by the way, he's run he's run an outstanding campaign. Yeah.
00:29:44
Outstanding. >> Yeah. We'll see where it goes. The silver lining here is Bera and that is
00:29:49
he might be exactly what Democrats need. He isn't exciting and quite frankly
00:29:53
that's probably why he won. If you were to summarize, you know, Democrats have spent a decade
00:29:59
searching for charisma. Right now it appears voters are searching for competence.
00:30:04
>> Daniel Lur is that he does videos every single day from a different restaurant
00:30:08
in San Francisco. He goes somewhere, he makes some mistakes. >> Not talking about Israel. He's not
00:30:12
talking about transgender rights. He's not talking about bodily autonomy. He's
00:30:15
not talking about Trump. He's just like, "How do I get Munich to get people to
00:30:19
work?" >> Right. But then he's also doing happy ones, too. Like, I just went to this
00:30:22
great Korean restaurant. I got He's very good. He's I would I would go I'd follow
00:30:26
Daniel's lead in a lot of these things. You don't have to be a douche nozzle
00:30:30
like Spencer Pratt. He's just basically a douchezle. Daniel's getting stuff done
00:30:34
and using social media in a really I'd pay attention to what he's doing because
00:30:37
he's not a compelling like wow personality. I mean, and he is he's lovely, by the way, but he's he's not
00:30:44
like like h show, you know, hand, you know, hand waving at all, but I think he does use social media.
00:30:50
>> He feels like upper middle management. >> Yeah. And he's also very he seems
00:30:53
competent. He gets things done. He he's always on social media. I looked at him.
00:30:57
Anyway, maybe he'll be governor of California. >> But just to come back to California, the
00:31:02
race became a choice between celebrity, Hilton, money, sty, and experience Bera.
00:31:09
and experience appears to be winning. And the national lesson that Democrats need to draw from this is the Democratic
00:31:15
party keeps assuming every election is a referendum on Trump. Increasingly, voters are treating elections as a
00:31:21
referendum on whether they can afford groceries, insurance, electricity, and a mortgage.
00:31:26
>> And what your governor can do about that, not governors can't or mayor can
00:31:29
do about it. Anyway, last story here. Apple smart glasses are now expected to launch in late 2027 after the company
00:31:34
hit some delays. More glasses from Apple, Scott. Apple is reportedly following the playbook similar to Apple
00:31:39
Watch, focusing on driving mainstream adoption of both glasses and sunglasses. These are things that look like glasses.
00:31:44
First generation glasses are expected to emphasize features like cameras, but Apple believes glasses could eventually
00:31:50
evolved into a health device and incorporate augmented reality. Now, I know you've been critical of the Oculus
00:31:54
and Apple Vision Pro. These are big, heavy units. These were these would be more like what app would what Meta has
00:32:00
with their Ray-B bands or their other different things. So, I I have a feeling Apple's going to come right up the back,
00:32:05
up the middle, and take it all. Just like with the watch, it's I think they'll design the best glasses. They'll
00:32:10
work the best. Um, and this is a way it goes mainstream if if this thing is to go mainstream. Your thoughts?
00:32:18
>> You're exactly right. They weren't the first in the iPod. There's my colleague
00:32:22
at NYU Stern is now at the TU school, Peter Golder. He he has this he he taught me something that stuck with me
00:32:28
that I thought was just a brilliant observation and it's the focus of his research and that is the innovator
00:32:33
doesn't win from a shareholder perspective. The innovator gets mud on their face and arrows in their back.
00:32:39
It's the second mouse. It's the person that learns from the innovator who
00:32:42
wastes a lot of capital and energy and comes in and it's the second mouse that
00:32:46
gets the cheese. Apple has essentially built the most valuable company in the world now number two on a second mouse
00:32:52
strategy. And that is essentially Meta built this market, but Apple's going to
00:32:56
collect the rent. >> They are. >> And this has this is not a mixed reality
00:33:00
headset. That [ __ ] was like a prophylactic, right? That was just stupid. Just stupid.
00:33:06
>> Yeah. >> Meta has done the hard work. Uh Rayband reportedly sold about 7 million units in
00:33:12
2025 and owns 85% of the category. And Apple is now entering after consumer behavior has already been validated. And
00:33:21
>> people Apple is the most is the most aspirational brand globally. It says I'm
00:33:27
I'm one of the 1 billion people who are the most creative and wealthy people on
00:33:31
the planet. And it is the ultimate luxury item is an iPhone in terms of ubiquity globally. It means it means you
00:33:39
can afford a 12 or $1,400 piece of equipment that does the exact same thing a $300 or a free phone does because you
00:33:45
consider yourself part of the creative class and you have some you know rz if you will economically.
00:33:51
So Palm built the smartphone market. Blackberry validated it. Apple captured it. Uh Fossil and Swatchbuilt watches.
00:34:00
Apple captured it. >> Do you remember Ano? Remember Ano? The first wireless earbuds. No, you don't.
00:34:07
>> I don't. >> Yeah, they were I had them. Oh, Yon. There were a whole bunch of early
00:34:11
wireless Airbuds and then Apple came in and and stole it, but it was called Ankio. I had them. There were a bunch uh
00:34:18
before um before the AirPods that that we showed a bunch of them at at the the co the our conference. Yeah.
00:34:26
>> This is this is what I think is going to happen. Meta spent tens of billions uh
00:34:31
proving people will wear computers on their face. Apple will show up late, charge 40% more, and take 80% of the
00:34:39
profits here. And people, the mistake people make is that people think the valley's greatest business model is
00:34:46
invention. It's not. It's letting someone else prove demand. >> Yep. Yep. Same thing with the AirPod.
00:34:51
They did they weren't the first of those those >> music devices. They just were the best.
00:34:55
They'll come in with beautiful glasses. They're not going to need Ray-B band.
00:34:57
will design something gorgeous and you'll want to wear >> beautiful and and if if it's distinctly
00:35:02
Apple >> you'll wear them. >> I'll wear I'll buy it >> and they'll you will totally have like
00:35:07
90 sets of them in your house cuz you'll lose them. >> Well, look what I have here. One of my
00:35:11
eight sets of AirPods that I consistently lose and >> Yep. And remember when AirPods were
00:35:16
thought as ugly when they Anyway, this they're going to they're going to take
00:35:19
this area, I think. And if they're And if they sh It has to be more than cameras. has got to give you information
00:35:24
and talk to you and record things and everything else. It's got to have more. I I I have a pair of
00:35:30
the Ray-B bands. I don't find them useful at all. I I I don't I don't I
00:35:33
just don't. It doesn't >> People like them. My kid My kids >> I do, but it doesn't work that well with
00:35:37
my other with my Apple. >> I will say it's like another one of the wearables that ends up in a drawer.
00:35:41
>> Yes, that's where it is. And but I bet Apple could if they could give me enough
00:35:44
stuff to do with it. I'd rather like cuz I use my AirPods now for everything.
00:35:48
Like I don't ever look at my phone, you know. Anyway, um all right, let's go on
00:35:51
a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump quietly signing his AI
00:35:55
executive order. >> Support for the show comes from Anthropic. Not every question has an
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Cloud today at cloud.ai/pivot. That's cloud.ai/pivot. And check out CloudPro, which includes
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access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. cloud.ai/pivot. Scott, we're back. President Trump has
00:37:02
finally signed his AI executive order, and it's a paler shade of white after
00:37:06
scrapping a previous version at last minute a few weeks ago. The new order is scaled back version of the original.
00:37:11
would ask AI companies to voluntarily submit their most powerful models to the government for review 30 days rather
00:37:16
than I think it's 90 uh day review window. It was in an earlier version but Trump rejected that saying it would get
00:37:22
in the way of uh competition with China. The revised order comes after a White House meeting on Monday with Trump Scott
00:37:28
Bess and Pete Hexath and former AISR uh David Saxs who gave his blessing to the new timeline. David Saxs had gotten in
00:37:34
the way of the previous one. I'll note Sam Alman is in DC this week making the
00:37:38
rounds. It's just dumb. It's just it does nothing. And that's that's my
00:37:41
thoughts on it. Your thoughts? >> Well, the elites in the Trump administration think the regulation is
00:37:46
controversial. But you know who's ahead of them is the American public. Voters
00:37:50
don't think it's controversial. >> Nope. >> This is this is one of the few issues
00:37:55
where Republicans, Democrats, parents, um, unions, and you know, churchgoers all agree. I
00:38:05
think this is the next great populist movement for better or for worse. It won't be anti-immigration
00:38:10
>> or anti-globalization. It'll be anti- AI Cara. >> And this is an enormous opportunity for
00:38:17
a Democrat or a Republican that figures out that the first the first person that
00:38:22
really goes into a populist movement around regulating AI is going to is going to have the political equivalent
00:38:29
of beachfront property here. This is the next big populist movement. >> Yep. I agree with you. I think that's
00:38:33
absolutely true. I think you're 100% true. Anyway, uh it's a really interesting, but this this one did
00:38:38
nothing. This one did nothing. It's a big a whole lot of nothing and David Sachs got his way. Congratulations,
00:38:43
David. There were others much more concerned in that administration and as well they should be. All right, Scott,
00:38:48
one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, let's hear a prediction. I I'm
00:38:54
going to make a very quick one. I just want to say Missouri is reducing state funding for Dolly Parton's imagination
00:38:59
library and early childhood reading program that mails free books to children. my children get them. They're
00:39:04
wonderful. Um, and Dolly went on to complain about this online very in a very friendly way. But this is a great
00:39:11
program and so reducing funding for kids getting books is the most idiotic thing
00:39:16
I've ever seen. And I predict Dolly Parton will prevail here and the money will get to this group. Uh, your
00:39:22
thoughts, Scott? I was watching Bill Maher and they asked um Neil Grass to Tyson if aliens landed who would you
00:39:29
want to speak to that person or who who would be best selected to to to speak to
00:39:33
aliens and he said a great mathematician would makes a lot of sense because he said any alien that gets to the earth
00:39:38
would understand math and that would be our common bridge in terms of vocabulary
00:39:42
which made a lot of sense to me but I I immediately thought no joke >> Dolly Parton
00:39:48
>> send Dolly Parton >> send Dolly [ __ ] pardon >> she's super likable on a lot levels kind
00:39:53
of represents represents Earth pretty well. >> The first that went into my mind is that
00:39:58
if aliens show up and we need a spokesperson, send Dolly Parton. >> That's I agree.
00:40:02
>> She can sing. >> She's likable. >> She's smart. >> Smart. Charitable.
00:40:07
>> Tells a good story. Boobs. >> I won't get into other attributes that
00:40:12
kind of represent. >> She talks about them. You can say boobs with her. She talks about
00:40:15
>> But I thought Yeah. Dolly Pardon. That's who should represent us when the
00:40:18
>> Well, give her her book money, you [ __ ] in Missouri. Anyway, go ahead.
00:40:22
So my my prediction is is more boring. I think you're about to see the mother of
00:40:26
all capital front running. What do I mean by that? >> As everyone obsesses over the $4
00:40:32
trillion valuation of open AI, SpaceX, and Anthropic, you're about to see Alphabet's already announced it. The
00:40:39
next will be Amazon, then it might be Nvidia, then it might be Apple. They're
00:40:44
going to frontr run all these guys. They're going to cut the line and say, "You want to give cheap cattle to
00:40:49
companies in AI? Our company is lower risk. Not as much upside, but much lower risk.
00:40:55
>> Google just did it. Yeah. >> Alphabet just announced an 80 billion
00:40:58
dollar offering. They're like, if there's a if there's if there's a
00:41:02
quarter of a trillion dollars out there of dumb money or cheap money looking to get into AI, they're cutting the line
00:41:09
and they're going to suck the oxygen or some of the oxygen out of the room of
00:41:12
the IPO market. >> Because you you noted correctly there's not enough money even for all of these
00:41:16
things. >> I I saw that from Alphabet yesterday. I'm like, "Oh my god, that's such
00:41:21
[ __ ] genius." >> Explain what they're doing. They're they're raising money by
00:41:24
>> Well, usually these companies will do a debt offering at this point because they
00:41:28
can use typically access such cheap debt. But I think Alphabet said, "My god, these guys there's there's people
00:41:35
out there willing to invest at 20, 30, 100 times revenues to buy go buy Nvidia chips and build out AI infrastructure."
00:41:42
They're like, I think we'll take that. And so Alphabet, whose CEO or CFO is
00:41:49
incredibly smart, said, "No, we'll we'll go get 80 billion of that cheap
00:41:54
capital." And it's so smart. It's so kind of, if you will, >> sneaky.
00:41:59
>> And quite frankly, if I'm Apple, if I'm Alphabet, if I'm Alphabet and I have
00:42:03
Gemini, and I think, you know, Open AI and Anthropic are competitors, I'm just
00:42:09
going to kick them in the nuts and I'm going to step on their oxygen line before we've even hooked it up.
00:42:14
>> I mean, they deserve it. They are as good, right? It's not like why should
00:42:17
they get the money? They're better. That's the downside. These companies
00:42:20
have robust business. >> Why should they get the money? Why should >> they have great management teams? Yeah.
00:42:25
>> So, they've they've basically >> lower risk. >> They're frontr running the IPOs here. I
00:42:30
I wish I thought of this. I think it's such genius. My prediction is >> Alphabet's starting. I bet the CFOs of
00:42:37
Apple, Microsoft, Coreweave, Nvidia have all got their pencils out and have said,
00:42:44
"Let's get some of this. Why don't we go get some of that? >> Why don't we if there's if there's a
00:42:49
quarter of a trillion dollars on the sidelines waiting to invest in AI? Hey, come over here. I got an idea.
00:42:54
>> Bring it to my little store." And by the way, we have other businesses to support
00:42:57
it if you >> Yeah. And there's less downside here. If things work out, we still got we still
00:43:02
got we still got YouTube and iPhones and we still got PowerPoint. >> Yeah. Excellent. Okay, that's a great
00:43:08
one. I love that. That's a great one. That's an excellent That's an excellent
00:43:11
prediction. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your
00:43:15
mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot. Submit a question for the show or call 8551 pivot. Okay, that's the show.
00:43:21
Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Scott, congratulations on a
00:43:27
tour with Edson. It was really nice to of course a great partner. I really you you totally made
00:43:32
the tour. So, thank you. >> Thank you. You deserve it. It was a great tour and it was really nice to see
00:43:37
all your fans. Anyway, we'll be back next week.