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Savannah Guthrie is the co-anchor of the Today's Show and NBC news's Chief legal
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correspondent she's also the author of mostly what God does Reflections on seeking and finding his love everywhere
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I want to be clear this is the real Savannah Guthrie we're talking to not the AI or deep fake Savannah Guthrie
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we'll talk about that in a minute but I first want to talk about the impetus for
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the book because when you told me about it um we text from time to time you said
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you're this not what you think it's going to be and you were almost apologetic it was interesting um and
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that this would surprise people who know you as Savannah gothy journalist interviewer you do tough interviews uh
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you're on the Today's Show you're very well known talk you're talking about your faith here tell talk to me about
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what the impetus was because I was surprised actually I had no idea I know I was surprised too and I mean almost
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apologetic is just my zone you know that's where I live that's where that's the the emotional space I in habit for
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um most of my day but you know honestly I my faith has been important to me always has been and all my close friends
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and my colleagues everyone knows that so I don't mean that they would be surprised but more that I was surprised
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that it was something I wanted to write about or put out there publicly not because I was ashamed but because it's
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so it's so personal it's so vulnerable I mean if you're going to write a book about faith and it is in any way
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authentic then you're more or less putting your heart out there and in this world which I don't have to remind you
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that's really terrifying and so for me to put it out there like that um I'm certainly not holding myself up as any
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kind of model of behavior or anything I'm not any kind of Theologian or biblical scholar it's just Reflections
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from a a real person a real life more learning more from disappointments and setbacks at any time sure so one of the
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things though is let's leave aside the performative people who talk about religion who do it for some other reason
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um you were a quiet faithful person as me as most people are you know what I mean that people they don't do you think
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people are scared not scared and asham to talk about it but you because it's so personal that's why you didn't want to
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you don't talk about it or publicly I guess yeah well I mean first of all everyone knows yeah
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publicly I mean I have talked about it you know from time to time which is how this opportunity to write about it came
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to me you know I've certainly never run from it but you know I think people are quiet about their faith because for one
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thing AR isn't the Mantra you're not supposed to talk about religion politics Happ one of those has to
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hold yes it doesn't it doesn't but also because you know this isn't I'm not out here trying to proti or persuade I'm I
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the the truth of the matter is I never thought I would write a book about God I I never thought I'd write any book and I
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and I didn't want to really I was happy to just have this be something personal to me but when the opportunity came up I
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found myself not able to say the immediate no I've said to every other offer of any kind of writing whatsoever
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and the reason was was because it seemed intriguing it seemed challenging it seems terrifying and it's the subject
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I'm most passionate and interested in and I'm always telling you know especially young producers or interns or
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people that have ever asked me for advice I always say you know get out of your comfort zone anything interesting
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you do in your life will be outside your comfort zone it's on the other side of a
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big risk that you take and it had been a while since I had taken my own advice and so I thought I'm going to try a lot
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about um some deep by the way it's a bestseller so it's doing people are responding to it um in the book you
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write about some deeply personal topics including the loss of your father who died when you were teenagers you also
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talk about your husband and your kids and how you see both marriage and Parenthood as metaphors for
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relationships with god um talk a little bit about this why you wrote it the way you
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did well the big Revelation is mostly what God does that's the title of the book and the rest of the sentence is
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mostly what God does is love you and I grew up in the church I had a traditional kind of Baptist upbringing
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and there's a lot about that that I still love and treasure but there was also a lot of guilt and shame and rules
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and of sense for me of always failing never Measuring Up and always kind of wondering what this looming God figure
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might have thought of me and through a life of again more mistakes than anything else what I came to realize is
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that mostly what God is doing at any given time is loving us it comes actually from scripture it comes from a
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verse in Ephesians that was retranslated by a scholar named Eugene Peterson and this the verse goes watch what God does
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and you do it too the way children learn proper behavior from their parents mostly what God does is love you when I
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read that sentence years and years ago it was a radical reframing of how I thought about God rather than this angry
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Taskmaster scolding or being disappointed or you know having a bill of particulars of all the ways we and
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all of humanity fails mostly what God is doing is loving you that's true for me it's true for you
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it's even true for Scott who's very silent talk a minute comes in with the big I'm I'm I'm teasing but the thing is
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is that I I wrote about it in the in the terms of Parenthood because that was another moment where when I had kids I
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was in my 40s I was so lucky to get to have kids at that late date long after I thought I had screwed up everything and
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would never have my chance and to have a child is truly the most I think the closest we'll ever get to understanding
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how God relates to us you know we love our kids we're Amazed by our kids we Delight in our kids we relish their
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little accomplishments we Delight in their milestones we not only love them we often like them we adore them well
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that's how God feels about every human being and I'm not making this up there's other versions this is the very metaphor
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there are other versions of it Scott why don't you come in here by the way you know uh uh God is dog spelled backwards
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so dog there you go Savannah it's really nice to meet you um hi Scott first off congratulations on your success I think
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this is a brave book for someone in your position to write because you're just subjecting yourself to a lot of scrutiny
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and your vulnerability and and I can see why it's a bestseller so acknowledging that I I love what you've written I love
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what David Brooks has written about the importance of community and how much comfort religion gives people and
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there's definitely a a hole in American society where people are having trouble Bing each other and the agency of
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something bigger than them and religion plays an incredibly important role and as a devout atheist I also want to
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acknowledge that I think we would probably benefit from an upsurge in religious institutions in America having
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said that I Warrior what would you do to provide Comfort to people when you say mostly what God does what I see mostly
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God being used for quite frankly right now is often times good people do good things bad people do bad things when
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good people do horrendous things usually God is at the center or some form of their vision of God and what I see in
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America is the religion and legislation that the line is being blurred and being
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used for quite frankly incredible misogyny incredible discrimination so what would you do to provide Comfort to
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people that recognize the importance that church plays but see increasingly that that God is being if you will
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weaponized well I understand those those sentiments you know I live in the real world too and you know I write a lot
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about doubt in the book and the doubt isn't does God exist the doubt The Crucible of of Doubt
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for any deeply thinking faithful person is where is God you know does why would why would a good God allow unmerited
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suffering yeah you for what you're talking about you say this in one chapter you write waking each morning to
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an overnight news summary which often has a headline after headline of bad news you wrote it feels like uh it feels
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like uh taking 20 punches to the gut in Rapid succession yeah and I mean I I hear and understand
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exactly what Scott is laying out I mean again I live in this world too I I would
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only say that what you're describing has more to do with humans than it does to do with God and I understand but I I I
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would say try to get back to the source material Go Back to Basics you know look
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for God for yourself look Within I mean looking out in the world whether I mean frankly Any Human Institution and every
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human even our most treasured and most devout or most faithful or most moral humans we have they're still human and
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this is in my faith view this is not the world that God intended we live in a broken world and um there's just no
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getting around that and P.S I don't have the answers to that in this little yellow book I don't the only thing I say
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is that I believe that God yearns to engage with us even on our doubts even with our doubts in fact I think that's I
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think that's part of faith I think doubt is kind of Faith being worked out um it's not an exception to Faith it's it's
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an aspect of Faith indifference and apathy now that might get you a little more to opposite of Faith so I
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understand all those doubts and I don't try to run from them I try to explain how I have dealt with them either
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personally with my own set or the world that I see that breaks my heart every single day what what what do you say to
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he just said he's a devout atheist right Scotch just said I happen to be more of
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an agnostic because I don't know and I you're closeted atheist but anyway no I'm not no I'm not because I've been
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literally walking by Churches recently and thinking I'd like to go in agre I don't know why I don't know I don't and
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I don't go in by the way um May sorry I don't mean to answer for you go ahead okay I don't I don't know I don't no no
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it's something else I don't know what it is it's not I don't want to see more people Scott that's something I want to
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do the opposite of um but what um it's true sanah um what who are you writing for are you writing to reach those
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people or what's what were what's the goal here for you I mean the book is not for any particular person I really mean
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that it is not in any way prati if it's persuasive that's not what it's intended
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to do it's it's a description of a relationship with God and I hope that it's ultimately appealing because I
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think God is quite compelling so I I write about um there's a chapter called the fragrance of the Gospel right which
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is a line from scripture but I say you know the idea is it's a fragrance right it's not a stench it's not an odor it's
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not the person next to you wearing too much perfume it's it's a fragrance I I hope that a life that is lived with
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recognition that God loves every human heart yourself and every human you see on the street I hope that life carries a
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fragrance that is appealing and compelling but no I'm not trying to write to any particular person I'm
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trying to write to every particular person who cares to pick up this book and in a lot of ways I'm writing to
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myself because this encouragement is something I need all the time I mean I still need to be reminded that God loves
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me that even more radically that God could like me yeah I mean this is if you could let that in if you could re let it
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in even for a moment it's pretty transformative but it's not the kind of thing that you learn once and then it's
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stands for all time it's like when you get married you don't say I love you sweetie and then in 30 years you're like
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remember I told you on her wedding day no you are in it every single day and you have to continue to seek that
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connection and that's how I think about faith as well Scott by the way I love you Scott sorry go I love you too Cara
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thank you for saying that uh uh so I'm asking this question should I leave no no okay so I'm asking this question
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generally for an answer not as a comment um what advice I know you have kids I have 13 and 16y old boys and I genuinely
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struggle with the role that I should play in in determining what the role religion should play in their life as
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someone who believes at some point I'll look into their eyes and I believe our relationship will come to an end when I
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die I also recognize as someone who spent a lot of time in temples and churches that there is something
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wonderful for kids about being involved uh in a religious institution but I struggle with how to incorporate it in a
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thoughtful way um anyways what advice would you have for someone who you know buys into
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the institutions not necessarily the lineage and see some of some of the danger and quite frankly if I woke up
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one day and my kid was super religious I got to be honest with you Savannah would
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be heartbroken and but at the same time I realize the value it can play in their
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lives and I want to incorporate it in a thoughtful way what advice would you have uh uh for for parents that feel the
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same way yeah well I mean I'm definitely with with you asked me but I definitely
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do not present myself who as somebody who could give any kind of advice on parenting as I'm just struggling along
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blindly myself but I'll tell you what I do I'm my husband is Jewish we have an Interfaith household what I have decided
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and this is a little different because I do carry a deep Faith within me so what
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I try to do is share that with my kids and yes to a certain extent you know you're talking about religious
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institutions I have I I I go to church I've always belonged to a religious institution but to me I don't let the
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religious institutions um I don't like them I don't let them ruin God for me you know I try to know God for myself
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know Jesus for himself through scriptures through prayer through personal interaction and of our
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religious institutions which are imperfect as all humans are I I try to take with Grace the best that they have
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to offer and and and then have Grace with their failings but what I try to do is teach my kids about the God that I
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know and not just in a way of dragging them to church although I do I my sister says in our growing up she said God was
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the sixth member of our family and what she meant by that was we were always kind of in conversation with god or
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about God you know and when my kids have a problem I might introduce God into the
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topic now this is easier for me because I believe in God and you don't but I think that's how I try to do it and if
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you you know don't have those feelings you feel strongly that's different but if somebody was wondering they might
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just say especially with a 13 and 16-year-old who's I have no doubt your boys are quite smart as you are you know
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it's okay if you want to investigate that a little bit and you have to understand that faith is is it's
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intellectual but it's also spiritual and emotional we're on multi-dimensional Realms here okay so you know you can't
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nobody can sit here and prove it to you and give you a set of facts even if they
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gave you in controvertible facts that wouldn't be enough faith is in the end a leap and I if I had older kids I think
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that's what I'd say to them my little kids you know these These are they're seven and nine now as they start to ask
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questions my view is I've told them what I know they will choose for themselves their
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faith or no faith at all and that that will be their choice I only know my responsibility is to expose them how do
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you incorporate your husband being Jewish is he how do you incorporate because there's a lot of well we like
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this there's like my my wife is Jewish but we we haven't done anything at all and I wouldn't bring them to church
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although with my older kids what my ex-wife did was um she took them to all different churches all the time like she
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would go to a temple she would go to a seek Temple she would go to a bapt she brought them to a lot un Unitarian was
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where she know tended to zero out on but um she took them to a lot of places which I thought was kind of a great idea
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I couldn't I didn't I think I I mean look I my view is sort of give God some access to their hearts and let him do
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the rest I mean why do we act like we're going to what we say is somehow going to
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be what they end up believing anyway so I feel a respon responsibility because I
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do feel my faith so strongly that I want to share with them what I know my my husband he comes from the Jewish
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tradition and he shares his traditions and we let those all live alongside each other now look I we don't have to get
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into chapter and verse why at some point although there's so much in common between our faiths why at some point
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there may be questions in a conflict and when that day comes I hope that we can answer it with as much love
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understanding Grace and humility as possible for all we know and all we don't know
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but you know there's a my kids used to go they don't go to this school anymore but it wasn't a religious Church a
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religious school but it had religious it was an old religious schools but 100 years later in New York City it didn't
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but they still had Chapel every week and what I loved about it was you know the chapel had nothing religious in it but
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it was space and time for something other than the Here and Now for something other than what right in front
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of you so maybe it's a long-winded way of getting to something of an answer SC which is to however you do it to leave a
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little space and if God chooses to enter that space well won't you be lucky even
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though Scott you'll be in despair why should anything change why should anything change well you know
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what Scott all I my big View and I write about this in the book is God speaks our
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language like you open your heart and you give a little access point then let God do the rest he's God you're not not
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or not that we not if you're you but you may be surprised you were sitting here thinking the reason I am interested I I
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was grew up Catholic and I they hated gay people they did they did they did and that was what re made me reject it
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so strongly one of the and I thought they were horrible in so many ways the people that ran the church including
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around uh sexual assault and stuff um but one of the things that I think I'm attracted to is the quiet it's so quiet
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in there and I think you're right being quiet is a very difficult thing these days um I'm going to ask you one more
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question Scott may have one more but I do have to ask you about these AI generated companion and workbooks being
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sold to a company your book mine are I there's full books of Caris Wier with really creepy looking uh Caris swier
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faces on them you you you look I don't look hot stop it stop it and this now Savannah we have a nice guest in our
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thing we have a nice lady with us stop it um when do you what did you think when you you you brought them up to me
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what what did you think when you first saw them pop up and these are workbooks workbooks that they sell them to ACC
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company your book and you had nothing to do with them and you could do a workbook
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for example well yes I mean and here's the thing my mother's the one who told me about it she said oh honey I'm I
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bought your workbook I'm like what workbook right and then she's told me to look it up and then I saw it and you
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know what is horrifying about it is well I mean first of all who knows what the heck it says with our names on it but
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also people spend their real money it's not like it's $1 it was $4.99 actually at one of my book events
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this nice lady brought it to me she said I just wanted you to know there are these fake workbook
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and I said oh H I'm I'm all over it I know and I of course immediately said it to the publisher but there's very little
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they can do if the I don't understand it you know totally from a legal perspective if there's a true likeness
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to your book like there were a few that came on that were light yellow like mine
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they could get those taken down but the others they don't and it's just really unfortunate because people are spending
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their their money on it and also for authors and even Publishers you know that's that's a book not sold right
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somebody I I hope you know I complained to the CEO of Amazon to your behalf so you know I just was it was like crazy
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but they can't do anything Scott final question so when you were when you and your boyfriend now husband were thinking
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about building a life together and you I I don't know if you had the conversation around religion but
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it's it's unlikely unless people meet at church or Temple that they exact views on this topic calibrate perfectly and
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did you have conversations around this did you find you needed to accommodate did one person grow into it more than
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the other was it less important to one person than the other so it it shape more around who was important to talk
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about how you decided that religion should should morph or not such that you could shape a life together we talked
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about it a lot and you know of course I came up in a tradition where you weren't
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supposed to marry outside the faith and I think his tradition probably was the same as well so right there we're
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already you know Heretics in some sense but we talked about it a ton and and um we actually this isn't the only reason
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that we faed around and dated for five long years before getting married but it is one of the topics that came up how
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can we make this work and still have integrity with both of our faiths and that's something that we're trying to do
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and not water down either one and you know I I kind of indicated this when they're little it's easier to do that
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when they're older I I anticipate because I believe my kids I hope I'm raising smart thinking kids who aren't
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afraid to ask hard questions you know I anticipate that that will come up and that we will deal with it as it does but
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what I knew I couldn't do was in any way water down or walk away from my faith and my husband has known this about me
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since our very first date and in no way would ever ask me to I have to give him a ton of credit too I mean it for me to
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not only be this person but then to be in this strange position where now I'm writing a book about faith which is so
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out there you know he never once was like well that's great sweetie but do you need to he he completely and totally
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supported me which I am so grateful for and and the biggest thing I've learned is whether you have a lot of faith or a
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lot of Doubt or something altogether different I do think to your point Scott people long for connection and they want
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to have conversations that are deep and meaningful and I've had more conversations even with friends I've had
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forever since writing this book I mean even Cara and I who are text besties and we've talked about a lot of things and
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when I said oh I'm writing this book that opened up a conversation or a lane of conversation we hadn't had before and
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I loved that she was so open and interested and said like oh I love talking to people about faith it doesn't
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mean I agree with your faith it means isn't it interesting to have these conversations it is isn't this more
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valuable to spend time talking about what you believe what you don't believe let's connect as humans this is the
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stuff that actually matters and I'm hoping that the book at least creates that opportunity this book is really
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interesting I've really enjoyed uh reading it um and I think it's good Scott does talk about Community a lot
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and it's important to this is what it's about faith and Community which is doesn't necessarily have to have any
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religion at all um the book is mostly what God does Reflections on seeking and finding his love Everywhere by Savannah
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Guthrie and her AI friends anyway thank you so much thank you I so enjoyed it thanks Scott thanks
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Cara