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Let me tell you, Hollywood, buckle the [ __ ] up because this is the beginning of what is a massive change in how
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Hollywood is made and and it it has to happen. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser
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and I'm Scott Callaway. Let's get you to news because there's so much going on. Scott. Paramount is launching a hostile bid to buy Warner
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Brothers Discovery after it lost out to Netflix. Uh Paramount is going to Warner Brothers shareholders with an allcash
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$30 per share offer valuing the company at around $ 108 billion including debt. That would be uh for all of Warner
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Brothers studio streaming and cable networks including CNN. There's various valuations for the the the cable
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networks um and CNN that are they they valued at a dollar and others valued it from three to five dollars. David Ellison has appeared on CNBC a little while ago uh with resting white lotus uh
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bro face saying we're really here to finish what we started. Let's listen to what he said about whether Trump is in
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his corner. What I would say is I'm incredibly grateful for the relationship that I have with the president and I also believe he believes in competition and
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when you fundamentally look at the marketplace allowing the number one streaming service to combine with the
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number three streaming service is anti-competitive. Yeah. The person who's touting his
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relationship with Trump and has the Saudis and Jared Kushner in his deal is worried about unfairness. Meanwhile,
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before Paramount moved, Donald Trump said Netflix acquisition of Warner Brothers could be a problem. It's a normal thing to say. He's a He didn't
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say anything wrong there given the combined market share. But not to worry, he plans to be quote involved in
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decision. He also I know, right? Like they never presidents never do this. Not supposed to. That's the whole point.
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You're not supposed to be involved. That's right. Uh, Trump also confirmed, of course he is, confirmed. He can't
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stay out of this one. Come on. Recently, he met with Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos. The White House calling Ted fantastic.
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Sarando said last week he was confident the deal would be approved because it's proconsumer and pro- innovation. But politicians on both sides are expressing
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concern. Senator Elizabeth Warren called it an anti- monopoly nightmare. We haven't seen what she says about the Ellison bid yet. I'm sure she's just as
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mad as that about that one. Hollywood is also up in arms with many warning the deal could negatively impact jobs and
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movie production. Ah, where do we start? Let's start with the hostile takeover, I guess, because that's some recent news.
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Um, Paramount's bid is backed, as I said, by Redbird. That's Jerry Cardelli. Three Middle Eastern sovereign wealth
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funds as well as affinity partners al which is Jared Kushner's private equity firms. Nothing to see here, folks.
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There's a lot to see here. The Saudis and Jared Kushner. That's a nice toxic cocktail of crap. um Trump uh you know
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whether he's going to um weigh in here. Of course he is. Um there's also a 5.8 uh billion dollar breakup fee that Netflix will pay if the deal falls apart. Um I don't know if they have to pay if they
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pick another one. I I was thinking about that too. I don't think so. I think of course not. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't uh why don't you
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start? I've got lots of things to say, but why don't you go first? Yeah. Well, look,
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it's going to sound strange, but what David Ellison said there, I actually think is is right. I don't I don't
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particularly want the family that's going to potentially control Tik Tok and is trying to is engaging in open
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cronyism by saying we can get this approved because my daddy my dad has his finger up the ass of the
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president. I I just don't that's wrong. But what he's saying on a macro level is
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I think correct. I Let me walk you through my emotional roller coaster. I thought, "Oh my god."
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Like I was so dumb to count Ted Sandos and Netflix out. I thought that Paramount was going to walk away with
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it. Yeah. And do you want to say Cara was right here? No. Go ahead. Go ahead. Did you think Netflix would just
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I did not think Paramount was going to get it. I thought it was Well, that lady is not song here. So I know.
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Anyway, so I mean the first round, but go ahead. So but you know, you never want to
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underestimate Ted's surround. It ends up that Ted very deafly flew to Washington
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and and and had an hour sit down with the president. And Ted, if anything, is incredibly likable and he doesn't come across as political. He comes across as super smart. You just like the guy. And
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he's also probably one of the most I don't even say underrated, but one of the most seinal figures in technology and media in the last 20 years. What
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they've done there is just nothing short of remark short of him and Reed Hastings. Let's give him credit, too. Well, Reed, I would say
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Reed is like the visionary, but Ted and his other co-CEO have been probably the best operators in media. They just
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they're just very good. And and so he pops up and all of a sudden I see pictures. I'm like, "Oh my god, that's
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Sly Fox just snuck into the snuck into the hen house when no one was looking." And then Ellison goes hostile. And
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actually, I think other than the president saying he's going to be very involved in taking meetings, I think the president is sort of saying, the
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president said one thing that is absolutely true and correct, and I hope he sticks to it, and that is whoever has
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the highest bid wins. And that's how it should be. Whoever shows up with the biggest check should get this. And if
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they don't, they should file a lawsuit under the Revlon laws. But I personally think we talk a lot about affordability. the I mean there's a few things around affordability whether it's lower
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education lower health care costs but also a key component to affordability we don't like to talk about it because it's
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boring is competition and if you let Netflix and HBO combine you're basically taking Walmart and putting LVMH on top of it and you have 300 million at Netflix 130 million
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at HBO now there's some crossover there but I think basically the streaming wars
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Some people would argue, well, no, it's about YouTube, but the trai how we traditionally think about streaming,
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that war is over. If if um HBO and Netflix are allowed to merge. So, I don't like this. I'd like to see it go to Comcast or it to be blocked with Netflix. I actually think par I mean,
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this is just an antitrust nightmare. Who will not matter? And then I'll turn it back to you. whatever the [ __ ] Sag Ara
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or Brian Cranston or Name Your Star that's gonna, you know, start virtue signaling after they get 40 million a
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year for their [ __ ] No one cares what they think. I mean, we'll we'll nod, but
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you know, they would call their agent if ISIS started started a streaming network if if uh as Ricky Jer said. So, they
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will be a total non-factor here. I'd like to think it's just going to go to the highest bidder. I'd also like to
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think that the economists of the DOJ and the FGC go, "All right, is Netflix going
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to be able to extract unfair pricing from consumers?" And sure, and if they're the only game in town, backend back-end revenues are already
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off the table. There's no more Seinfeld deals anymore. But that's what they were doing before that this is what Holly was mad about
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it. You go finish and then I I have a lot to say about this. Well, okay. My point is when you have
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consolidation and concentration of power, it benefits the shareholders of those of those con those the winners of
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that concentration, but a it reduces it creates a lack of leverage for the consumer. So prices go up and b it leaks strength and leverage and compensation
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from labor to shareholders. So to a certain extent, I would like to see anyone but Comcast or potentially unfortunately Paramount because they're upscale. I'd like to see the deal blocked. And I love Ted Sos and I love
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Netflix. Okay, here's what I think. First of all, it's a bigger market. Like look at the two cases, the core cases. I'm going to
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start with that that just got lost by the Department of Justice was there's plenty of competition for FA for
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Facebook and Meta and there's plenty of competition um uh for Google, right? They've lost those because the whole landscape has changed. You you sort of pushed off YouTube. YouTube is where
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everybody streams. I'm sorry. Look at the statistic. If you look at any of the watching data, YouTube is far and away
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the most important way, especially young people get their news and information. So, you're leaving out the fact that
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YouTube is enormous here and is the actual competitor. Secondly, there's tons of different you can't like say
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streaming is its own thing anymore. Everything is Tik Tok is part of that. So is Instagram. So the the the market
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is so dissipated that nobody gets a thing like it doesn't nobody gets control of anything. I think there's plenty of competition and I think Netflix has a very good case to be made that there's lots of competition. That's
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one. Two, um I don't know. I just got over the weekend I that some Trump people contacted me and they were like, "What do you think?" And I said, "I think you know backing the winner is
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what he'll do." And so you noticed him saying Ted was fantastic. and he wasn't pro Ellison necessarily, right? He just
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said competition, which is the right thing to say. And so, you know, Trump's very interested in Netflix because he
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thinks they're winners. And let me just tell you, Hollywood, I'm so sorry to tell you, but they have won because many
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years ago, 15 years ago, Jeff Bezos called them the Albanian army. Do you remember that? Like, they who are they?
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Hollywood has persisted in backing shitty economics, like really shitty economics for themselves. They overpay themselves. they over um the just
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everything they do is all about their feathering their own nests and we talk about that with David Zazoff and others.
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It's never about figuring out what's next. Instead, they blame Netflix for inevitable changes that consumers like.
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So, the problem wasn't isn't Netflix. The problem is Hollywood didn't modernize itself fast enough and stayed
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in the same old economics, the same old bat, you know, patting of the backs, etc. Um, so it just is like I don't I don't know if I think there's much more
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competition for them than you think. Secondly, they've changed the game they have, but Hollywood certainly had every
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opportunity to do so and were warned. So, um, I put up I'm going to finish my rant in a second, but I put up an
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interview I did with with uh Reed Hastings, uh, Jason Kyler, Reed Hastings who ran Netflix, Jason Kyler, and Chad
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Hurley that I did at Sundance in 2009. And I was like, these three companies are going to change everything. They put
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us in a basement, Scott, and yelled at us for saying what was obvious. This is going to be a streaming environment.
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This is going to all the economics are wrong. The way you people pay yourselves, they stuck us in a basement.
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And I we were like, fine, that these are the companies that are going to take over everything. So, to me, it's Hollywood's own [ __ ] fault for their
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ridiculous salaries. The way they the economics are so they're like it would make, you know, it would make a third,
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you know, an eastern block country blush in terms of the corruption. I think that goes on there. That said, I like a lot I
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think but I and I also think there's lots of different entertainment happening like in podcasts and everywhere else. So there's lots of
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choices. The the the thing about the Paramount bit is this is a group of people who's it's sub it's sub small.
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It's too small by the way and they have an they have an existential crisis. It's all it's like a rich kid buying a yacht.
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This is a yacht for this kid. And you would you would uh you know think about the track record here. Um, it's good to
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know how to run a public entertainment company before buying a very important one. I think the I think I'm sorry,
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David Ellson's a very nice guy, but he's completely inexperienced and over his skis like most of Trump officials like
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like he has no business running this company. I'm sorry. He just doesn't. Um, he got played. He gets in fights, stupid fights with people. It's just he's utter
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The only qualification is he's friends with Trump and his daddy has money. I and and he makes bad decisions one after the next. So that's another thing. I I mean I don't really care if he wants to
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blow his fortune. All power to him, but he does he's not the best owner of this. It's there's it's a non-economic thing.
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Bringing in the Middle East and sovereign wealth funds, no thank you. I don't think so. And Jared Kushner de
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double no thank you. And the last thing I would say is that Comcast is the bidder that should get this because
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that, you know, they really need to bulk up and they are really good operators. it would make perfect sense. Um, and it
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would it would it would be, you know, they could spin CNN should be spun off the way Versent was and then let's
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figure that part out. Um, but what what what what David Olson was trying to do here was try to get this on the cheap
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and it didn't work. Right? That's what he was doing. and Netflix very deafly by someone who is an experienced operator came in and did an end run around him because I'm sorry David you're not very
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smart about any of this stuff and you just you know the fact that you him going on and on about unfairness is I'm like listen Richie Rich it's not happening you know call Cadbury the
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butler and let him explain economics to you so I just don't I don't I don't see I think Netflix has plenty to push back
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and I don't think they would have moved forward if they didn't think they had either a legal chance, which I think they absolutely do, or a an in with
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Trump, which from what I can understand from the Trump people, there's a lot against this, but there's a lot of
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people who see that Trump needs to to be a little bit for this, too. Um, so it's not a done deal in that regard, but they
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of course were going to do this. No matter how you slice it, they were going to try to make it into something. So, that's my rant. Thank you.
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So, I a lot there. Um, so let's start with it doesn't matter whether David Ellison would be a good owner or a bad
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owner. We don't get to decide that. And that's socialism. If all of a sudden we start making value judgments on who should own something or who should
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say he's inexperienced, he'll do a terrible job. But go ahead. Well, and AT&T is allowed to buy Time Warner and realize it was a stupid idea
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and then sell it. You know, that's just I didn't say he couldn't. I'm just telling you he would be Hollywood will be sorry if it gets him.
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So, well, okay. So I am sympathetic to one argument and not to the other. The argument that you're making is around market definition. And what you're saying is is that the way we would
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define the market in front of a if it goes to the Supreme Court is that no, it's not the market for streaming. It's
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the market for eyeballs and all entertainment and all video. I think that's a really good argument. I personally think that you what I think
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it's its own category. I do think that premium streaming where you acquire subscribers and they pay a monthly
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subscription fee, I do think that qualifies as its own market. And I get the argument and I'm sympathetic to it
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that YouTube is the biggest streamer. I get it. I've even said that before. But saying that that to a certain extent,
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comparing HBO and Netflix to YouTube is a little bit like saying, well, there are three companies that control all of poultry right now and prices continue to rise faster than inflation, so we should
00:14:45
break up big chicken, which I think we should do. And then the chicken people would say, we're not competing against each other. We're competing against
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beef, poultry, kale, granola. So, I do think this I do think streaming is its own definitive market. And I think the evidence of that, Cara, is that as the market has begun to consolidate a few
00:15:03
years ago, pricing has gone way up. Pricing and streaming is is accelerating. So I don't look at this as I
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by far the best operator and the nicest guy and the best American in my view of all of this is Ted Sandos. I don't think
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that's how you decide this. I think you decide who the highest bidder is and then the FDC and the DOJ economists go
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will this extract substantial leverage and capital from labor and consumers to the shareholders of the oligopoly here and I believe that there's a very solid
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case as much as I don't I'm not fond of the Ellison's that it would be good to have a bulked up Paramount a bulked up
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Comcast and it might present a leakage of power and leverage and capital from labor and consumers to shareholders. If you let the Netflix Warner Brothers deal go through
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see I I I think just you again I think you cannot leave YouTube out of this. You just can't. And I think that's their
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I think that's their in the whole is showing the the the like I've seen which show are you watching on YouTube?
00:16:07
I'm just telling you usage time. I get that. But I think streaming is is is part of a the look every decision that's
00:16:14
recently been made by judges on this stuff talks about a broader landscape. That's why Facebook got out of its jam
00:16:20
and that's why do you think those are the right decisions? Yeah, I do actually. I was with them. So, you don't think Facebook is a monopoly? You don't think Facebook
00:16:26
should have to spin Instagram? I think they were and I think they leveraged it. But no, I don't I don't I don't I've said that over and over
00:16:32
again. I think they are abusive of the power they have, but I don't I think there's pl they have plenty of
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competition. I think Tik Tok is an entertainment platform and I think it takes up people's however you extract
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money from people whether it's through advertising or subscription is the same difference to me and so I think that
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they what's interesting is where Disney is on this you know and you know I suspect they're sitting on the sidelines
00:16:56
going oh for [ __ ] sake I I actually know this um that they where do they go like it seems to me you're going to see a lot like look if Netflix does get Warner Paramount's got to do a deal with
00:17:08
someone come whatever unless they just want to spend dad's money which he he certainly can do but they're too small
00:17:13
right and this was something many years ago I said I I was like I can't believe I'm saying this but Disney's too small
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and so where does Disney go to me is really interesting this is what's going to happen for the next couple years
00:17:25
these consolidations whether you like it or not and look I I really think they're
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this bringing in the Qataris and the Saudis and Jared Kushner says tells me everything I need to know here like kind
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of It's really quite grotesque. I don't think the Saudis should be owning any of our news organizations. I'm sorry, they
00:17:44
shouldn't. And neither should the French. Neither should, you know, Saudis more than the French. But in any case,
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um it just doesn't create, you know, talk about global news. Like, why aren't we discussing what's going to happen to
00:17:57
CNN if it's merged with C? Why isn't that as important as the streaming market? And so I just feel like it's
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none of these choices are great, but there it's inevitable that consolidation is going to happen whether Hollywood
00:18:09
likes it or not. I don't mean to be hostile Hollywood, but they sat on their [ __ ] hands. Well, this this is not a
00:18:14
new fresh thing. And what would you I I can't believe I'm defending Hollywood, but what would what would you have had Hollywood do quote
00:18:21
unquote? I assume you mean the creative community. The creative community has watched this slowmoving like growth of ne first of
00:18:28
all, they disdained it. Tribe tried be covering it at the time. I was at I had death threats from like the writers of that. Well, you had the same thing. It's like are you know with the writers we need 19
00:18:41
people in the like even as I do stuff today for CNN and other thing I'm always like what are you here for?
00:18:47
What are all these people doing here? What are all these people doing here? Every time I go on any go to the Today Show and do a six-inute
00:18:53
segment and there's 14 people in like and I'm sorry I I agree everyone should have jobs but have they really
00:18:59
sat there and thought about and the other thing is this is where I go to ultimately is like who's making the
00:19:05
things that consumers like guess which grew by the way the kid like one of the things I think that is affecting Trump
00:19:11
here is his son and wife like Netflix right like they use it what do consumers like what has been better for consumers probably Netflix, right? Like what precisely? I just I I just think it's
00:19:24
just a time that this is I'm so sorry to tell you, but you had a chance to change yourselves two decades ago when this
00:19:30
started to happen. Instead of insulting Netflix, maybe you could have copied it. Maybe you could have done more mergers
00:19:36
or more tech technology stuff. Maybe you should have said maybe our economics are insane. like why are we paying I'm sorry
00:19:44
to say I have a lot of friends who are anchors and get these millions of dollars to these anchors when this is when the audience was declining like to
00:19:51
me it's their it's not their own fault but it really is from an economic point and then why do you let David Zazlov
00:19:56
have these massive salaries like why does this go on like essentially so you know and the other listen I have I'm happy to have tech people actually get in here a little bit um in some ways but
00:20:08
one of the things that drive I'll tell you drives me crazy about this Ellis bit is I was at that meeting where they were
00:20:14
um where they introduced it and they kept saying we're going to take tech and change things and I was like uhhuh
00:20:20
specifically and they're like tech change things AI I was like uh-huh right how right and so I would like some if
00:20:28
they put out a very clear this is our plan we're very transparent all of them I'd like to see it like what their plans
00:20:35
are still I think Comcast should have it all that's my feeling because I think they're I think they have the right
00:20:40
things and you spin and off CNN. Maybe they merge with Versent, but they let me just tell you the news organizations
00:20:46
should get as much consideration here as Larry Ellison and the Saudis should not
00:20:52
control CNN, CBS, and Tik Tok. Sorry, that's just as bad as the stream. It's worse than the streaming business. So anyway, that's where I am on this. The So it's it's it's interesting is usually
00:21:05
you and I are in different positions. I'm I usually am on your position as kind of the capitalist argument and I
00:21:12
would argue I'm taking kind of the antitrust or the the labor uh consumer argument here. But I think
00:21:18
at the end of the day the decision should be based on an analysis of what has happened in terms of pricing power.
00:21:25
And typically actually the courts while they've made decisions around Alphabet and Meta basically letting them go ahead
00:21:31
or or or having factless remedies in terms of after they find them guilty monopoly power and saying okay here you
00:21:37
have to pay $10. The the primary typically court cases lose antitrust when they go from four to three and that's what's going to happen here. Y they don't like the consolidation going
00:21:49
to this level. Also, I think at the end of the day, the ultimate litmus test for whether the concentration has gone
00:21:55
overboard here is in pricing. And in the last in the last year, you've seen on average among the big five, I guess, dreamers, their prices, they've raised their prices 12.6%.
00:22:08
Which is vastly outpacing inflation. So what I would like to see is good economists say what is going to happen
00:22:14
here over the next five or 10 years with three players instead of saying no we don't want just three players in this
00:22:20
market. Your your argument will be the big one and that is what defines this market and who is included in that. But I do think there's a pretty big distinction psychologically in terms of
00:22:33
consumption, in terms of business model and revenue and why people go to each of these platforms between I get that
00:22:39
everyone's competing for eyeballs at some point. I get that. But I do think these are different markets.
00:22:45
Yeah. I don't I don't I just I watch people as they're shifting and and the time spent that to me it is by the way
00:22:51
these these markets have to consolidate. I'm sorry to say there are o there too many costs and they have to consolidate.
00:22:57
It's not something there's it's it's going to consolidate. It doesn't really matter. And one of the things that's interesting is the Trump
00:23:04
administration through its lawyer making Delrahee who now works for Paramount. This is one of his moves like it feels
00:23:10
making all over the place here. Um is was to say AT&T couldn't buy uh Warner, right? Which set off this whole thing by the way, which is kind of think about it. So they lost and all the things that
00:23:23
they said were going to happen never happened. like all these Well, they were trying to bulk up against the digital guys. That's right.
00:23:28
That that that mean I I was on record as saying it's ridiculous to get in the way of that. Can I just go through the pricing here?
00:23:34
Yeah. So, let's look at the big five. Apple TV, HBO, uh uh Hulu, Disney, and I'm
00:23:40
going to do 2019 prices versus 2025. Six years, right? In 2019, Netflix was $12.99. Now it's $18.
00:23:48
Disney ad free in 2019 when it launched was seven bucks. Now it's 19. Hulu with ads has gone from six bucks to 10 bucks. HBO Max standard ad free has gone from 15 bucks to $1850 and Apple TV Plus has
00:24:03
gone from five bucks to 13 bucks. So it appears even with just five players who aren't bulked up, their pricing power has been extraordinary. And again, I I I want to see economists
00:24:15
go, okay, at some point there's too much transfer of power from consumers and labor to shareholders in a concentrated ol oligopolistic environment.
00:24:28
Yes. Except that these prices are going up because this costs too much, right? They're selling ice cream that costs a
00:24:35
dollar for 50, right? This the price they had to get into just like aren't you the same with AI right now? the
00:24:41
amount of money they're spending for their revenue streams and eventually they're going to start charging us more.
00:24:47
That's obvious. But they are over they had over spent. The reason Hollywood overspent so much is because they were
00:24:53
they waited so long to compete with Netflix. I kept going, you need to pay attention to Netflix. Hey, over here.
00:25:00
And they didn't because they like their town cars and their flowers and their first class tickets and their
00:25:06
entouragees and their staffs. like it was so exhausting to deal with Hollywood. And in some ways, tech was a
00:25:13
relief to deal with, not now, but they were for sure. Um, and so I just feel like these prices were going to go up
00:25:19
anyway. And there's still, even if there are five, they're going to go up until everything settles on what it costs and
00:25:25
what they spend, right? And that's and where people are going. And I I think leaving I think their greatest argument
00:25:32
here for Netflix is YouTube. YouTube. And and but and again, no doubt that's the argument. need you need to watch
00:25:38
what Apple and Amazon and Disney are going to do like what you have to think of what's next and there's going to be you know handing it over to Nepo Mogul
00:25:49
fine whatever if you want to do that but next is going to be another one of these
00:25:54
and another one so we have to figure out what that means and then what we can extract from these companies like
00:26:00
Netflix in order to help consumers right what can we actually get but I don't think the Trump administration is interested in any of that, like helping consumers whatsoever. I don't think they're interested. And honestly, of all
00:26:12
people to argue for antitrust, the Ellison's really aren't the ones to be doing it. It's sort of like it's
00:26:18
laughable on some level, but fine. They can they can do whatever they want to do. Uh it's just I don't think the Trump
00:26:24
administration is even slightly interested in consumer pricing whatsoever. No, I think he's positioning it such that they both get so close to
00:26:30
the finish line and gets so hot and bothered that he says, "I need whoever gives me a quarter of a billion dollars to the Trump presidential disco. He gets
00:26:38
this or I give I give a nod to the DOJ or the FDC." Yeah, exactly. The whole thing is so
00:26:43
[ __ ] up because it's so corrupt. And Jared Kushner's should not be in this. I mean, what a ridiculous this guy can't
00:26:49
keep his finger out of any [ __ ] pie. It's really kind of like grotesque in some ways. And of course, that makes
00:26:54
this even that's why I'm like, are you kidding me? You're adding the Saudis and Jared Kushner. Who are you? Who have you
00:27:00
not entered into like you want to give some to Cannon? Like who do you want to like I'm just like what lonesome crony
00:27:07
do you want? Well, it's just when you when you have when you have an $85 billion check there are very few people domest just that you
00:27:15
need to bring in a lot of checkbooks for that. I know. But why that checkbook? There's plenty of check. They have Apollo. That
00:27:20
guy's smart. So I don't know. We'll see. It'll be a really interesting battle royale. And of course,
00:27:25
I don't think they care about consumers. I'm I don't trust my instincts around this any longer because I got this one
00:27:31
wrong. What do you think is going to end up happening here? Well, one of the things that I think someone told me and I I I was that I
00:27:38
think Sarandos has frozen his competition for a little while. Like everybody's frozen now, which I think is
00:27:45
brilliant, right? He's ahead and that he's Look, the stock is suffering obviously, but um I think he's frozen.
00:27:52
I'm always on I always am like what did Netflix do? And then it's turns out to be the smart thing. I like their ballsiness. I like they take risks. When they did the discs to streaming, boy was
00:28:03
that a [ __ ] existential moment. And then they said no advertising. Okay, we're going to do advertising. We're not
00:28:09
really going to do deals, which was a [ __ ] head fake. A fantastic head fake. Oh, we're doing the deal. I think they believed it at the time.
00:28:15
No, I don't. It was a It's been reported it was a head fake. They were No, no, no. I mean I mean over the last 10 years they have not been inquisitive.
00:28:21
They have build versus Bob was a head fake, but I think I think he's frozen the situation in place beautifully and we'll see where it
00:28:32
goes. I think this is going to take forever. Like a couple years. Yes. And so that's smart in and of
00:28:40
itself. That's smart. But let me tell you, Hollywood, buckle the [ __ ] up because this is not the this is the
00:28:46
beginning of what is a massive change in how Hollywood is made. and and it it has
00:28:52
to happen. I'm sorry. I know you're all going to now hate me like you hate Scott, but I'm sorry to tell you, you had the chance to change it a long time
00:28:58
ago and didn't take that chance. And you know, they'll talk about creativity and I agree with that, but I don't think
00:29:04
creativity goes away. Um just it's just this is what's going to happen because this is the industry that it that has not innovated nearly enough as a group of people. Anyway, um I think actually
00:29:17
press has innovated more than Hollywood has. I would say media certainly has. Anyway, not enough either. Um anyway,
00:29:23
let's go on a quick break. We come back. Elon calls for the EU to be abolished. Support for this show comes from Framer. If you run a business, you need a website. And sure, you could pay for one
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00:30:40
Scott, we're back. These metalsome kids. Elon Musk is denying reports that SpaceX
00:30:45
is holding a share sale that would value the company at $800 billion. He posted on X over the weekend that SpaceX has
00:30:50
been cash flow positive for years and only runs twice Julie stock buybacks to give employees investor liquidity. But
00:30:56
the latest valuation might be a sign of what's ahead for the company's future. SpaceX has informed investors that plans
00:31:01
to pursue an IPO in 2026. according to the information. Um, I don't believe anything Elon says, so whatever. Elon's also uh spending his time because this is an important thing. Um, calling for
00:31:13
the European Union to be abolished. This comes after the EU fined X $140 million for violating its digital services act.
00:31:20
Regulators called the blue check verification system deceptive and also criticized a lack of transparency in X's
00:31:25
ads. Secretary of State Marco Rubio called this EU fine an attack on all American tech platforms and foreign uh
00:31:32
and American people by foreign governments sit down. Marco, little Marco, are we about to see an US EU
00:31:38
showdown? I think people in the in Europe are quite nervous, I suspect. Thoughts?
00:31:44
I I think the EU the EU is just fine. I mean, first off, Musk wants them to break. Who the [ __ ] cares? I I mean, I
00:31:51
don't think anyone's going to lose any sleep over what he thinks. I think there's going to be another Brexit uh
00:31:56
referendum. If I was your Kier, that's what I'd do. I'd say, "Let's do Brexit again."
00:32:01
You mean a reverse Brexit? Yeah, reverse Brexit. Let's bring it up for a vote. I think I could save his ass
00:32:06
any um think about it. So, by the way, just to be clear, just in terms of facteing her, Netflix didn't merge with Warner Brothers. They basically slid into Warner's DMs at 3:00
00:32:19
a.m. like, "You up?" And Warner Brothers said yes before checking who else was in the room. Do I get to run the studio? Do I get to
00:32:25
swan around? Says Dave. By the way, Dave gets the prize here. Dave wins no matter what. Zazz, go
00:32:32
ahead. Oh god. I hope this thing gets stretched out eight 15 years so he'll be 90 trying to spend that money. Um, look, I
00:32:41
actually think the EU is really stepped up and I I have a tendency to look at everything through the lens of Ukraine.
00:32:46
And for too long, the EU didn't have its act together, expecting big brother to provide this military umbrella and didn't pay their fair share, especially Spain and a couple other countries. And
00:32:57
they are getting their act together. And they've basically said, "America, I love America comes up with a peace plan that
00:33:04
is basically paring, you know, Sergey Lavough's talking points like this is what Russia wants and this is a plan we
00:33:09
want." And the nice thing about this is doesn't really [ __ ] matter because America is America is still relevant and
00:33:15
that it it still has um um surfaceto-air defense systems that are really important. But the EU industrial base is actually pretty strong, revving up,
00:33:27
producing really good weapons. They have stepped up in terms of financial support for Ukraine. And quite frankly, the US
00:33:33
hasn't has withdrawn financial support and all they really do is sell weapons b purchased from um from the EU and and deliver them to Ukraine. And a couple
00:33:43
times they've stopped. JD Vance has got in the way of those arm those arm uh shipments. But my point is the US has
00:33:51
become less and less relevant uh in Ukraine and I think the EU is for the first time a union again. And that is I
00:33:59
think the Ukraine war one of the one of the many benefits of this in terms of occupying the space they command is that
00:34:06
the EU is trying to get along and being more coordinated. Uh so I don't I don't think Musk saying I just not I think it's meaningless. I think it's him gasping for to control the news cycle on
00:34:17
something that's meaningless. They're not going to respond. Why should they? Mhm. Yeah. I think that's right. Now
00:34:22
they're going public. They're obviously at some point going public. but he likes he likes the money and it's a good way
00:34:28
for him to get liquidity I suppose to do other nefarious things. Um I think they're probably going public this year as they as many people think they are. Um with the EU stuff I just like he's
00:34:40
just I not kidding about rethinking Brexit. I think this is the time like most people in England think it's a mistake was a mistake. So why not go and revisit it? it would give Star a lot of
00:34:51
power like if he and defocus from his negatives which are quite high from what I understand. Um but the idea that
00:34:59
Europe is a union should be without the US as its sugar daddy is a great idea. I
00:35:05
think I think it just um you know and also there'll always be across purposes over I mean Marco Rubio's statement could have been made by Obama made a similar statement many years ago like
00:35:18
how dare they regulate our tech platforms and that's fine and good except we never regulate them. So maybe if we had a little bit more uh control over our tech mogul maybe they wouldn't
00:35:29
have to do this and go so far as they tend to do. That's just my feeling. It it I mean I agree the rejoin pathway the
00:35:38
UK would have to start from scratch because every member nation would now have to approve it and and some may
00:35:45
hesitate. The UK would be expected to comply with a full body of EU laws and regulations.
00:35:50
Um the already the UK government by the way Starmer has publicly ruled out a return
00:35:56
to the EU. Um too bad. And so look it just it it I agree it makes sense at a 30,000 foot level but I think the politics here yeah probably too much
00:36:07
make it the unwinding was so complicated um that it's probably um is probably not
00:36:15
going to happen in terms of SpaceX. Like I don't I think you know and we're going
00:36:20
to do a predictions episode but I think the new AI in terms of a frenzy around cheap capital and some stocks just going apeshit next year is in one word is
00:36:31
going to be space. Yeah. And if I were if I were the IR the head of IR for SpaceX, um I would basically just have one talking point and that is okay,
00:36:43
Meta, you own twothirds of all social media on this thing called Planet Earth. Alphabet 90% of searches on planet
00:36:50
Earth. Uh Amazon 50% of e-commerce and a small piece of planet Earth called um e-commerce. We at SpaceX have 90% share of [ __ ] everything else
00:37:02
of the the universe, the 100,000 galaxies, the 10 million universes. We have 90% of launch capability. We
00:37:08
control twothirds of the satellites and space is transitioning from narcissism and Katy Perry going into space and you
00:37:15
know billionaires and space tourism which was just [ __ ] stupid and it's moving to connectivity
00:37:22
um which will be uh you know weat communications satellite communic and then the next
00:37:28
frontier where I would invest if I could find the right companies the next huge space I think is going to
00:37:34
be space defense. Yeah. Um anyways my point is already in SpaceX if you look at what happened in terms of the plummeting price and processing
00:37:46
power the increase in bandwidth the all of these things the the the next seminal
00:37:51
figure we're all going to talk about and have some sort of Musk law or Moore's law is that essentially the cost to get a kilogram of material into space
00:37:58
because of the Falcon heavy or whatever they call it is declined by 90%. Yeah. No, let me let me pay Elama. I
00:38:05
remember when he started talking about putting up all those those low uh low orbit satellites at the time. I remember
00:38:12
having a conversation and I there were two people who were doing this oddly enough. It was Elon who I talked to
00:38:17
about it quite a bit and Jerry Yang had a company like this interestingly after he left Yahoo. And I was really riveted to this idea and it was such at the I
00:38:28
can't underscore how much of a risk it was at the time. By the way, everybody, this was I know y'all hate Elon, but I
00:38:35
have to tell you this was a great a great move. Like really in terms of thinking ahead like nine steps when he
00:38:42
had his mind not so [ __ ] up, visionary, bold, risky. I think he it's it's decrepit now. But I
00:38:49
at the time it was really something unusual and there were only a few people talking about it and Jeff Bezos was sort
00:38:56
of talking about rockets, but not really. Not like this, not on this like very Kyper, but yeah. Well, they do now, but I'm just
00:39:02
saying it wasn't this it wasn't this sort of systemic put these low orbit satellites and again Jerry Yang had a
00:39:09
company too and I don't know what happened to it but those are the two people I discussed it with and this was
00:39:14
a long anyway I think it has to go public. I think he's got to continue his lead and continue pushing forward. He
00:39:20
lost his lead in Tesla despite the stock going up. It's he's definitely lost his lead. He shouldn't lose his lead here.
00:39:27
Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Meta makes cuts to the metaverse. What a surprise. Scott, we're
00:39:34
back with more news. Meta is considering cutting up to 30% of employees in his Metverse unit, which work on VR
00:39:40
headsets. Since 2020, the division has lost more than $70 billion. Metal reportedly shift savings from the cuts
00:39:46
to its augmented reality glasses, which are very fun thing, but kind of I think minor. Um, meanwhile in the other latest
00:39:53
Meta AI moves, Meta is acquiring AI wearable startup Limitless, which makes a small AI pendant that can record
00:39:59
conversations and generate summaries. And the company has struck several commercial AI data agreements with news
00:40:05
publishers like CNN, Fox, and USA Today to provide real-time answers to queries while compensating publishers. I guess
00:40:12
the $70 billion loss. I mean, you in particular, and me too thought the metaverse was idiotic. Um, I love that
00:40:20
you can make a mistake like this. Mark Zuckerberg can afford to make these $70 billion mistakes and not suffer a second
00:40:26
for it. It was a stupid idea, but he did move from it. I guess that was I think he just wanted to change the name of the
00:40:32
company because he was so sucked up into social media disasters. But at the time,
00:40:37
um, you know, I I I I don't get these pendants and anything else. I I'm not on board with those at all, including at Open AI. Um, you know, that's the right
00:40:49
thing to do, I guess, right? You should focus on AI and advertising and AI offerings presumably, right?
00:40:56
Yeah. Look, I, you know, easy to pat ourselves. I was the original hater of headsets and metaverse. I said it when
00:41:02
it wasn't cool. Uh, where everyone was talking about spatial computing and and then I said the Apple one was just as
00:41:11
[ __ ] stupid. We have an instinct. We the things we can eat and the things can eat us don't come directly at us. They come at us from the side or behind us. And so we are very Have someone walk
00:41:23
behind you in Manhattan just for a block. And you start getting very uncomfortable. And no one did any goddamn consumer
00:41:30
research and what they found when they did research was that 40% of people within like 20 minutes were nauseous
00:41:35
because you're not supposed to have your peripheral vision cut off like that. And the idea of a bunch of cyborgs rocking
00:41:42
around in their own world even when they were outside. It was sort of anathema to like everything. I never liked the outside stuff. I like
00:41:48
the inside movie watching work stuff. But go ahead. I thought it was so it was all so [ __ ] stupid. The legless univer
00:41:55
also the legless. Yeah. Didn't have legs as it turned out. The whole thing the whole thing was
00:42:01
ridiculous. But when you're meta you can you can burn 70 billion. Um, so this was
00:42:08
like a I don't want to say a speed bump for him. It was definitely a pothole. Yeah, he does move fast when he [ __ ]
00:42:14
up. Well, I don't has it really. I mean, this has been a good five years, right? No, it's actually been a while. He kind
00:42:20
of loves have he loved this thing. He really did. Remember the dressing thing and where and then no legs. But the
00:42:27
remember he was like, I think I'll try I think I'll dance with like Rihanna or whoever the hell. So stupid.
00:42:32
Yeah. I don't look I I don't I do think the place where all of this R&D will pay
00:42:39
off is in smart glasses. I do think Meta is going to have a very strong offering there. You think it's a big market though? I
00:42:45
don't think it's I think that at some point we're a lot of us are going to have kind of whatever
00:42:51
you want to call it virtual VR AR enabled glasses. I not glasses they're going to be the
00:42:56
AirPods with video. I'm I I just I'm still not into these pendants either. I don't like
00:43:02
I've never understood those. I I think it has to be like in your ear. Like I feel like in your ear.
00:43:07
What you're saying is the the most practical vision is that the AirPods get more harmonious with your iPhone,
00:43:14
right? And your iPhone becomes your headset. And you're walking by. You're looking for an you're in Soho. And you think, "Oh, I love Crosby. What I love this
00:43:20
street. What apartments are, you know, hey Siri, what apartments are available here?" And it and you hold up your phone
00:43:25
and as you scan around, it tells you what apartments are available in the building you're looking at, right? and what they're going for and
00:43:31
click here to speak to a broker. I mean, there's just a lot of stuff. I feel like that's how it's going to go. But these I would Would you wear a
00:43:37
pendant? I'm like I feel like an old person. I've fallen and I can't get up. I don't know. No. I mean, I've been forgetting to put
00:43:43
on my diaper. She falls every 5 minutes. Yeah. No, I wouldn't wear a pendant. I wear I wear a bunch of crazy bracelets on my wrist, though. I still have my hotel because I find it useful. I wear
00:43:54
this cuz it's a watch, too. But and you're used to I wear this because it makes a random sexual encounter more likely if I have a
00:44:00
panory. But let me just say the one thing is on that I did I'm ignoring it. Um on Star Trek they all had those
00:44:07
things that they hit. I think that's where this is coming from. Remember they always hit it and talk to it. The little
00:44:13
thing their little chest thing. I don't remember that. Captain Kirk always hit this little um
00:44:18
metal on his on his chest. I just want to know who was hit and Lieutenant Uhuru.
00:44:24
They had a run on the show. Do you remember? Anyway, um speaking of which, the New York Times is suing Perplexity
00:44:30
AI claiming besid New York Times is also Speaking of which, good segway. Speaking of which, and Captain Kirk getting it
00:44:37
on. No, I was just thinking more AI stuff. I've moved on from that. Um by the way, New York Times did two ballers lawsuits.
00:44:43
Once against the Trump administration for the Pentagon crap they'd pull. Um but the New York they're suing
00:44:48
Perplexity AI claiming that the AI startup copying drew millions of articles. The lawsuit also alleges that
00:44:53
Perplexity used paywalled stories, sometimes attributed hallucinated content to the Times. Uh, the Times says
00:44:59
Perplexity ignored multiple requests to stop for nearly two years. I mean, oh yeah, Perplexity. They're always in the
00:45:06
middle of this. They feel like they're the bad guys. Like, I don't know what is happening over there.
00:45:12
Yeah, but you hear less and less about Perplexity. Yeah, I know. It feels like it's kind of um fading
00:45:18
away. some of the research analysts here at Prop use it and they like it. But um
00:45:24
yeah, I look I've I've said for a long time I thought the old school guy should band together and basically hire Barry
00:45:31
Diller to be their the tag dog and go after these guys and say look you know if you're going to
00:45:38
I mean the I really enjoyed actually your I think it was your interview with Jessica
00:45:43
Yellen and she said something I love insight that's obvious but you this is news not noise Jessica Yellen
00:45:48
not Jessica she's great. Yeah. Not not Fed chair Janet Yellen. Yeah, right. Jessica Yellen.
00:45:54
Yeah. Uh, anyways, she said something that was so I love obvious insight. I thought I
00:46:00
didn't think of it that way. And she said that traditional media still shapes the narrative. All these platforms, they're all inspired. It's like they provide the coal. And you may
00:46:12
burn it and offer different means of electricity on different platforms, but the coal, the the raw content that
00:46:19
shapes all of this comes from the NT, the Washington Posts, CBS. I mean, it starts on traditional media. And the problem is is that these guys need to get more aggressive about recognizing
00:46:32
that value from the downstream people who are making all the money. Because and I said this when I first went on the
00:46:38
board of the New York Times like we got to turn off the Google crawlers. Right. Right.
00:46:44
And and we got to consolidate with the Murdochs, the guys at the FT, the new houses at Condon, and we got to license it all and create a bidding war because Bing was still a thing back then. And I
00:46:56
remember the lawyers were like, "That would be antitrust." I'm like, "We're dying here. We're dying. And you're
00:47:03
worried about antitrust that if we bind together and try and license our content, they're very nervous people.
00:47:08
Anyways, the this is if you really if you think about there's there's value ad and then an influence and then there's ability to monetize it. And the real tragedy of old media is that its
00:47:21
influence is winning from a viewership standpoint, but in terms of the actual stories that get circulated online,
00:47:27
they're sh they're still shaped by traditional media. And I hadn't thought about it that way. I thought that was really insightful. Yeah, absolutely. That's where they get
00:47:32
their thing, especially the New York Times. Like, there's certain ones they get it from and others. I mean, no one's quoting very much from Los Angeles Times
00:47:40
anymore. A little bit. They do it every now and then a good story, but um it's it's a very small number. Wall Street
00:47:46
Journal, Washington Post still to an extent, although again although as much as it's its news editor is trying hard
00:47:53
to do it, it's you know, it's a declining asset. But um but you're right. Absolutely. But I like the New
00:47:58
York Times did it anyway. And I like that they sued the Pentagon. You know, I like that Costco sued the government
00:48:03
about tariffs. I kind of you're seeing, as I said, a little bit of a backbone here. And I I think Meredith Levian is
00:48:09
really sharp in terms of they got to do this. They got to put it on record. So, what I don't get, though, again, why
00:48:14
wouldn't the NT bind together with every other media organization and go after Perplexity? They do. I think they kind of do. They
00:48:20
They talk to I think they coordinate. I mean, maybe they don't, but I think they probably do. I don't know. Anyway, Perplexity, stop stealing our [ __ ]
00:48:26
Okay. Thank you. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some
00:48:34
wins and fails. Do you Would you like to start? Uh, you go first, Sure. Well, I want to say congratulations even though we aren't one of them for the Golden Globes best podcast. Uh, lots of
00:48:45
people tried to get it like um uh Ben Shapiro was like paying a lot of money for marketing to get it.
00:48:50
I didn't even know they had that. The nominees are out or the No, no, this was a big thing happening. So, so their armchair expert with Dax
00:48:56
Shepard. It's not us, just so you know. Um, Call Her Daddy, Good Hang with Amy Polar, The Mel Robbins Podcast, Smart
00:49:03
List. I love those guys. And Up First from NPR. Uh, no Joe Rogan, no Megan Kelly, no Ben Shapiro, those kind of
00:49:10
things. Those are all great. I Those are all great podcasts. Great. I think Mel Robbins is great.
00:49:15
They're all great. Oh my god. Probably the smartest guys cuz I like them so much. The smartest. Although I like the NPR people. I say
00:49:21
the NPR people. Anyway, congratulations. Of course, it should have been us, but Yeah. Yeah. next year.
00:49:26
But but congratulations. And my fail is um Well, you know what? Soon enough, you're going to be so old. They're going to give you a lifetime achievement awards.
00:49:32
They're going to go that way. Oh, you think I'm already getting those? I'm already getting those. I'm really already getting those. It's kind of
00:49:37
crazy. Um my feel is um you know, sticking with this um this deal. This is happening. Hollywood really has failed to understand. They're still fighting
00:49:49
previous fights and I think they have to start thinking about what entertainment is and how things have changed and
00:49:56
they're always um they're always just talking about the last turn of the screw and it's it's kind of over in a lot of
00:50:02
ways. And so therefore, how do you like I am I still get struck by the two most popular movies with consumers were weapons and sinners are very creative oneperson things. Um and I get their
00:50:16
inclination to fight for uh theater to you know they want to be in the theaters for longer. This is this fight with
00:50:22
Netflix over 14 days over 45 days and they want to be in the theater. Well if you want to do that then make yourselves an economic world where you can do that. Like it doesn't mean you can't do it. It
00:50:33
means that you can't just blame Netflix for doing its business. You have to figure out how it is. You if that's what you want, figure out an economic way to do it instead of bitching and moaning
00:50:45
about Netflix. Like I I'm sorry. They've made a product people want to buy and they have a theory. So have your own
00:50:51
theory. And I really wish Hollywood would take that. If you want to be in theaters, figure out a business where theaters work economically, even if it
00:50:58
just breaks even, instead of um blaming everybody for your woes, most of which are due to economics that don't work
00:51:06
anymore. And that's that's for everyone across every industry. Everyone else doesn't moan this much. Hollywood likes
00:51:12
to moan about. Thank you. I can't wait to see if an extra from Star Trek decides you're the devil like
00:51:17
they did with me two years ago. Yeah, they will. I I sorry, I just can't I don't want to hear it. I like do
00:51:23
something about it. Thank you. I like it. Um, so I don't they're both kind of fails, but I'll position one as a win. Traditionally, American armed services when a combatant is disabled
00:51:36
and no longer presents a lethal threat, we offer them quarter, which is essentially mercy. And I had Admiral
00:51:43
James Debridus, uh, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, which by the way is the coolest title ever.
00:51:49
Yeah, I know. Supreme. I just you know what ladies don't or or guys when you're at a bar don't go up and say may I meet
00:51:56
you say hi I'm the supreme allied commander of NATO and just take it from there. Your name is Supreme Allied Commander
00:52:02
Pivot 100%. I'm getting in trouble for suggesting certain people have sex and propagate.
00:52:08
Okay. One guy called me and said he felt objectified. I'm like well dude we've been objectifying women for thousands of
00:52:13
years. Why can't I objectify you? Anyway, um was that Jake Tapper? By the way, I
00:52:19
still think Marco Burough is probably just [ __ ] a crazy weirdo in the sack. What do you think?
00:52:24
What do you think? He's not speaking to me because of our last I agree. Let me just say I You can
00:52:29
blow up Ezra Klein all you want, but Michael Barbaro wins hands down over there. Ezra Klein's had a glow up.
00:52:35
Oh my god. I got to tell you, he's like, "Hello, ladies." I told you my safe word with Ezra.
00:52:40
What? Maybe. All right, move along. Move along. Uh, call us, Ezra. Um, all right. So, Venezuelance, build more housing. Well, there's some [ __ ]
00:52:54
shoot people out of the water after they're floating there after. But listen, there's actually I I just want
00:53:00
to break down why we offer quarter to to enemy combatants when they are no longer
00:53:06
a a threat to us. One, it's just the right thing to do. We're human beings. We we treat people better. We we have a
00:53:13
certain decor around humanity and we set a strong example for the rest of the world. the Imperial Navy in World War II
00:53:20
machine gunned uh sailors who were in the water. Uh so did so did the the uh so did yubot and the Nazi from the uh the third Reich Nazis did the same thing. We did not. If enemy combatants
00:53:32
were in the water, we scooped them up and we put them in a prisoner of war camp. It's the right thing to do. Number
00:53:37
two, it gives you tactical advantage on the field because if people think they're going to die anyways, they're less likely to surrender. If they believe you will give them quarter,
00:53:48
they're more likely to say, "I surrender." And also, you get incredible intelligence from the people who do
00:53:53
surrender. So, you can interrogate them. And then third, and finally, when you when you when you blow and murder, and
00:54:00
these aren't war crimes, these are murders because this isn't a war. These are murders. And when you when you
00:54:05
murder two people clinging to a capsized boat, what you're doing is you're putting our own Navy Seals in harm's way
00:54:13
because other nations do in fact cooperate and have a certain decorum here. There even rules in war. We
00:54:18
decided at the end of World War I that poison gassing was probably not the way to go and everyone respected that. We
00:54:25
now have laws. We have laser technology where we could blind everyone out on the field. We have bio we have boweapons and
00:54:32
all nations have decided no let's leave that out of our toolkit it could get really ugly really fast and generally
00:54:38
speaking and generally speaking when combatant enemy forces have captured or overrun
00:54:46
American forces they often times take them prisoner one because they think they'll get money for them and they're
00:54:51
worth a lot but two we have traditionally offered quarter to them so this is morally wrong it's tactically stupid and it puts our servicemen and
00:55:02
service women in harm's way. Well said. Well said. Uh my Supreme Allied Commander Pivot. Well
00:55:08
said. My loss here is I'm just sick of these ridiculous conversations around affordability with no substance. And
00:55:16
that is everyone talks about affordability and they expect a magic [ __ ] wand to take egg prices down.
00:55:21
It's pretty basic. If you want more affordability, there's there's actually common sense solutions that are hard and
00:55:28
take time and take investment. One, we need to build 5 to 10 million more homes. We need to weaponize the private
00:55:33
sector. Pardon? 8 million. Sorry, I've been saying 8 million. Go ahead. We need to weaponize the private sector.
00:55:39
It's 40% of the consumer price index. So, housing and housing has become too expensive. So, we need rent freezes
00:55:46
don't work. Rent control does not work. What works is providing incentives to the developer community and getting rid
00:55:51
of these nimi laws and committing to building y as you said 8 million houses over 10 years manufactured homes which on site
00:55:58
are 50% less expensive and bring down the cost of housing folks it's time universal healthare I
00:56:05
add using new business new building methods they have there's all these really creative new ton of cool stuff and by the way take
00:56:12
down tariffs and and some of these manufactured homes out of China are incredible uh it's time universal healthare We
00:56:18
spend $13,000 per person. The rest of the G7 spends $6,500. We need a national system that
00:56:24
introduces real bargaining power into the system. And a Medicare-like public option
00:56:30
available to everyone under 65. You lower it by two or three years, every year for 10 years to give the private
00:56:35
sector time to adjust. It is time. And you would, by most analysis, you would reduce
00:56:40
health care spending by 15 to 25%. That's about a quarter of our deficit. And then we need a 10-fold expansion of
00:56:47
public higher ed income linked tuition caps. Basically, your tuition is based on the income of your parents. And also,
00:56:54
if you have over a billion dollars in endowment, Dartmouth, Harvard, everyone else, it's not growing your freshman
00:57:00
class faster than population growth, you risk losing your taxfree status. We're not [ __ ] Chanel bags. We're
00:57:05
public servants. And then finally, and this goes back to my statement on Netflix, massive antitrust. The our industries
00:57:12
are becoming way too concentrated. And when they become this concentrated chicken, there is a big pharma, big tech. I mean,
00:57:19
go through all the big a go through all this [ __ ] Have you been doing drinking with Amy Clolobashar? Is that what's happening?
00:57:26
Oh, I love Senator Kay. She's a lot of fun. Love Senator K. But the problem is we
00:57:31
think that, oh, if we tariff people and give money to farmers, that's going to bring down prices. I mean, folks,
00:57:37
do basic [ __ ] math around what actually works around bringing down com. By the way, kiss and make up with China.
00:57:45
Kiss and Will some people get hurt. Yeah, they make [ __ ] really cheap. You want to listen to this headline. Trade surplus
00:57:51
with China just rose to uh a trillion dollars. Whatever trade circle, you know, it doesn't they haven't been
00:57:57
stopped by this people. Sorry. They've been Okay, here's some stats about I I have a China podcast now.
00:58:03
It's called China Decode. The percentage of exports going to the US from China has gone from 17% of their
00:58:10
exports to 10%. Meanwhile, since pre-COVID, since 2019, they have increased their exports 40%. So, folks, people all around the world are bringing
00:58:21
down inflation by buying China shred. 82% of the gifts under the Christmas tree this year, our guests are from,
00:58:27
wait for it, China. You You want to be able to buy your kids seven gifts, not five? Kiss and make up with China. They
00:58:34
are better at making cheap, low IP [ __ ] than us. Should we have trade agreements that recognize they're not allowed to
00:58:39
steal our IP, that they have to let our stuff into the markets? Yes. Get rid of all these trade restrictions. Zero
00:58:45
tariffs, zero free trade agreements. All there's a breaking story. The White House plans $12 billion for farmers facing trade war followed. Why don't you just not do the trade war in the first
00:58:57
place, Donald? Thank you. You want to talk about socialism and taxing some people and then
00:59:03
redistributing it to farmers who aren't who are no longer competitive. And quite frankly, China's not coming back. Oh,
00:59:08
but let's let's give a bunch of money to the Argentinians who the Chinese are now buying soybeans. Anyway, this it doesn't
00:59:15
make any sense. But if you want to talk about affordability, we one, we need to bring down the cost of housing. 8
00:59:21
million homes in 10 years. There's a there's a clear blue line path to doing that. Two, tuition price caps. Expand
00:59:27
your freshman class. Uh three, we need national uh we absolutely absolutely need nationalized socialized medicine. Bring it down eligibility for Medicare option two to three years age age elig
00:59:39
eligibility over a decade. And finally, massive antitrust concentration equals a
00:59:46
leakage of power and economic viability from the labor force and from consumers to shareholders. And there's always a healthy tension between shareholders and or between capital and labor. Capital
00:59:58
has been kicking the [ __ ] out of labor for 40 years. And it's starting to hurt the economy because the top 10% that
01:00:03
owes all the share owns all the shares is now responsible for 50% of the [ __ ] consumer economy. All right. I like it. I like you
01:00:10
becoming a communist and allied commander of pivot. Um it's a capitalism. I know. Just you know Trump just
01:00:16
promised executive order to block state AI AI regulations. Also get out of there Trump. Anyway, we want to hear from you.
01:00:23
Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or
01:00:29
call 855-51 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on with Caris Fischer, I spoke with
01:00:34
prolific author Margaret Atwood, she of the Handmaid's Tale. We talked about how women are bearing a
01:00:40
lot of the cost of the Trump administration's policies and the parallels she sees in Handmmaid's Tail. Let's listen to a clip. All dictatorships do this. I can't think
01:00:48
of one that has not. Sometimes they have nice slogans at the beginning, women hold up out of the sky, etc. Um, but it
01:00:56
doesn't usually play out. It it sometimes plays out that a a select group of women get fairly high-profile positions. And you can see that in the Trump government. There are a number of
01:01:09
of cabinet people and certainly the White House spokesperson. They're all women. Um, but that doesn't translate
01:01:17
any more than it did with duchesses into the lives of ordinary women. Anyway, she was great. She was a really interesting and very long interview. Um, okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:01:29
listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us
01:01:34
out. Today's show was produced by Larara Naman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Rertdat engineered
01:01:40
this episode. Jim M edited the video. Thanks also to J Burroughs, Mia Seo, and Dan Shalon. Nishad Kura is Vox Media's
01:01:46
executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox
01:01:52
Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for
01:01:57
another breakdown of all things tech and business. Care, have a great rest of the week.