00:00:00
We've made a lot of predictions. We get
00:00:02
some wrong. This was a [ __ ] layup.
00:00:04
>> It was.
00:00:10
>> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York
00:00:11
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:13
Network. I'm Cara Swisser
00:00:14
>> and I'm Scott Galloway.
00:00:16
>> Well, let's get straight to the breaking
00:00:18
news of the day. Hey, Elon Musk just
00:00:20
lost his high stakes lawsuit against Sam
00:00:22
Alman and OpenAI, which alleged OpenAI
00:00:25
had violated a promise to remain a
00:00:27
nonprofit after deliberating less than
00:00:30
two hours uh which means they didn't get
00:00:32
the free lunch. A federal uh jury ruled
00:00:35
unanimously 9 to zero that Altman and
00:00:38
Open Eye did not betray their nonprofit
00:00:40
founding missions. There was a statute
00:00:42
of limitations, technicality, but I
00:00:44
think they're basically saying Elon, you
00:00:46
giant adult toddler, too bad. Um, Scott,
00:00:49
we've been saying this all along that
00:00:51
this would happen. Check it out. I think
00:00:53
this jury can't possibly side with him.
00:00:55
I mean, ultimately, I don't think they
00:00:57
proved anything. And it's a sort of he
00:00:59
said, he said kind of thing. And Elon's
00:01:01
the most lo of the pair, right? By far
00:01:04
by the country mile. So, I think Elon's
00:01:07
made a spectacle of himself. If he wins,
00:01:08
it would be something else. Like, I'll
00:01:10
tell you that. Um, but I can't imagine
00:01:12
the jury thinks this guy got the got a
00:01:14
short end of the stick or that he's
00:01:15
stupid and didn't know what was
00:01:16
happening to him. The judge backed the
00:01:18
verdict and dismissed all claims,
00:01:20
including one against Microsoft. Both
00:01:22
men are racing towards massive IPOs with
00:01:24
OpenAI valued at over $850 billion. And
00:01:27
SpaceX expected to go public very soon
00:01:30
after merging with Musk's XAI, which has
00:01:32
been pretty much of a failure in the AI
00:01:34
department, possibly one of the reasons
00:01:36
for this lawsuit. Uh thoughts? Look, as
00:01:39
predicted, I thought this was an easy
00:01:41
one. And I thought this was a messiah
00:01:44
complex and
00:01:46
sellers regret cosplaying a legal
00:01:48
argument. The only thing that came out
00:01:50
of this entire case was that Musk was
00:01:52
[ __ ] a board member in that she nor
00:01:55
he disclosed it after he had left.
00:01:57
>> Well, if if they did it that way, let's
00:01:58
be we don't know how that happened.
00:02:01
There was something.
00:02:02
>> Okay.
00:02:02
>> All right.
00:02:03
>> Okay.
00:02:04
>> Alleged. You're saying she she would it
00:02:06
was immaculate immaculate conception
00:02:08
>> in there was let's not get into it but
00:02:12
they're romantically involved now. Okay,
00:02:15
got it.
00:02:16
>> This was a lawfare.
00:02:20
Um, and this was again I I am turning so
00:02:27
I think we now need alternative minimum
00:02:29
taxes of 60 or 70%
00:02:32
on anything over a billion dollars for
00:02:35
an individual because these individuals
00:02:38
are under the impression that they are
00:02:41
not subject to the standards of of
00:02:43
Western society, decency or any or the
00:02:46
law. The fact that they would even he
00:02:49
would even bring this case
00:02:50
>> nonsense
00:02:51
>> uh
00:02:51
>> waste of time
00:02:53
>> is okay you don't have a legal argument
00:02:55
but I'm Elon Musk and
00:03:00
nonprofits are allowed to convert to
00:03:02
forprofits they do it all the time he
00:03:05
tried to convince them to become a
00:03:07
for-profit that he would control and
00:03:10
when they said no he left and started
00:03:12
his own for-profit AI company and then
00:03:16
six years later decided to give up all
00:03:18
ownership and governance of that now
00:03:21
that it was worth $850 billion. he
00:03:24
wanted some of that or he wanted to at
00:03:26
least slow it down for his failing
00:03:28
>> right
00:03:29
>> uh LLM th this was
00:03:32
this was we've made a lot of predictions
00:03:35
we get some wrong this was this was a
00:03:38
[ __ ] layup
00:03:39
>> it was I have to say one of the things
00:03:40
that people look look first of all it's
00:03:42
a waste of our legal our legal time it's
00:03:45
a waste of those nine jurors time it was
00:03:48
ridiculous how let me tell you all of
00:03:50
them came off badly right Sam Alman
00:03:52
doesn't look
00:03:53
Siobhan Zillis, the alleged person,
00:03:56
girlfriend thing. Um, no, she is a
00:03:59
girlfriend, I guess. I don't know. I
00:04:00
don't care. Um, but Greg Brockman, the
00:04:03
only person who came off like an adult
00:04:05
is Sacha Nadella, who's the CEO of
00:04:07
Microsoft, right? He looks like he did
00:04:09
the right thing. He handled it well. All
00:04:11
his texts are fine. The rest of them
00:04:13
look like [ __ ] babies and unhappy and
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just, why are they in charge of our
00:04:18
fate? Why are they why are they so
00:04:20
unhappy and so rich?
00:04:22
um all kinds of like weird dramas
00:04:25
between them, personal dramas, and it's
00:04:27
a waste of our legal systems time. It's
00:04:29
just rid the judge seemed perplexed as
00:04:33
to what it was doing there. Um and
00:04:34
again, it does come down to Elon Musk
00:04:36
and sour grapes. He has the sourest
00:04:38
grapes on the planet, even though he's
00:04:40
about to become the richest person on
00:04:42
the planet, right? In the history of the
00:04:44
planet. The other thing is that both of
00:04:47
them are sucking wind while Gemini and
00:04:50
Anthropic are lapping them, right? So
00:04:53
all this waste of time and energy over
00:04:56
companies that are pro have problematic
00:04:58
real problems, right? In their own in
00:05:01
their own thing and it's just the whole
00:05:02
thing is just I just and I I think the
00:05:06
fault lies of course with Elon Musk who
00:05:08
just can't like lose. He's he's a sore
00:05:11
he's a sore winner is what he is. I
00:05:13
don't know what else. and he's a bad
00:05:15
loser essentially. And you know, would
00:05:17
do you think it'll affect their IPOs or
00:05:19
positions in the overall AI race?
00:05:21
Because I don't see anyone coming off
00:05:23
well except for uh Gemini and Anthropic
00:05:26
in this deal essentially.
00:05:28
>> Well, Gemini and Anthropic win by just
00:05:31
virtue of the fact that this is a big
00:05:33
distraction for a non-competitor XAI and
00:05:37
a real competitor, OpenAI.
00:05:39
The only nuance I would add to your
00:05:41
comments is one,
00:05:43
there's a small fraction of people, us
00:05:45
included, very small, that we're
00:05:47
tracking the nuance and the details of
00:05:50
the case. Generally speaking, the
00:05:53
majority of people will will read this
00:05:54
today and it it it distills down to a
00:05:58
very basic thing. Musk lost and Alman
00:06:01
won. So I actually think Alman comes out
00:06:03
of this as a winner.
00:06:04
>> That's fair. That's fair
00:06:05
>> because the majority of us didn't listen
00:06:06
to the testimony and just how petty and
00:06:09
childish and weird these people are. Uh
00:06:12
so it's like they'll they'll remember
00:06:14
one thing about this. Oh, Musk lost and
00:06:16
Alman won.
00:06:17
>> You're correct.
00:06:18
>> And I don't I don't I think the
00:06:20
prediction markets I don't know what
00:06:21
they were at one point it had Musk at
00:06:23
50%. Which was a great bet
00:06:26
>> but the thing I looked at was the
00:06:27
secondary market and I didn't see shares
00:06:29
in Open AI decline in value. So I think
00:06:33
this I think this gives new not new wind
00:06:36
but existing wind in the sales of the
00:06:39
open AI uh IPO and also I don't think it
00:06:43
to be fair I don't think it hurts M's
00:06:45
IPO because I think people are so
00:06:47
intoxicated for real for many good
00:06:49
reasons by the IPO of SpaceX. This was
00:06:54
and the the the most interesting thing I
00:06:56
saw in the CNN article that we just
00:06:58
pulled up was the judge almost appears
00:07:01
to be wallpapering over why they didn't
00:07:04
dismiss it in the first place. Why did
00:07:06
they even let this get to trial? Because
00:07:08
the judge was saying that she, you know,
00:07:12
one of the reasons I was thinking of
00:07:13
dismissing,
00:07:15
you're going to have legal scholars look
00:07:16
at this and go, "How the [ __ ] did this
00:07:18
ever go to trial?" because of a
00:07:20
technicality because of a statute of
00:07:22
limitations. Correct.
00:07:24
>> Was that it? Yeah. Well, statute of
00:07:25
limitations and also there is a certain
00:07:29
there is a certain benchmark for what
00:07:30
actually proceeds to a jury trial.
00:07:32
>> Yeah. A nuisance lawsuit. Yeah.
00:07:34
>> Yeah. So I look I think this will go
00:07:36
down um as as I don't want to call it a
00:07:39
nothing burger but something that was
00:07:41
distracting for them that people the TMZ
00:07:44
of the tech community loves reading the
00:07:46
testimony and all that but at the end of
00:07:48
the day this this is a this is a speed
00:07:50
bump not even a speed bump a bump for
00:07:53
both firms but the the distillation is
00:07:56
the following our court system still
00:07:57
works Musk lost Altman won but bigger
00:08:02
picture neither of their IPOs is
00:08:04
threatened by this.
00:08:04
>> Yeah. Who the [ __ ] cares is what I
00:08:06
thought. The whole thing was such a like
00:08:08
I do think I agree with you about the
00:08:09
nuance. I think you're absolutely right.
00:08:10
No one will remember that. But boy did I
00:08:13
get an insight to what a bunch of
00:08:14
[ __ ] babies these people are. Really
00:08:16
truly out of I thought that and now I'm
00:08:19
like unconfirmed
00:08:21
and conf like a lot of the stuff like
00:08:23
that I had heard about Zillis not
00:08:25
telling the board about uh the pregnancy
00:08:28
the twins and stuff. I I heard that and
00:08:31
I was like that can't be. And then it
00:08:33
was like like like a lot of and Greg
00:08:36
Brockman's journal and I know that's
00:08:38
sort of like we're interested in it or I
00:08:40
am at least but it does like really does
00:08:43
I was like I thought they were babies
00:08:45
and indeed in court they were babies.
00:08:48
>> Can I tell you about my pregnancy story
00:08:50
conflict?
00:08:53
>> Do you want to bring this back?
00:08:55
>> My baby.
00:08:55
>> You want to bring you know stranger
00:08:57
things have happened.
00:08:59
>> Okay. So, uh, you got to tell me you
00:09:01
want the story first. So,
00:09:02
>> I want the story. Go ahead. Really
00:09:04
briefly, though. Okay.
00:09:06
>> That's that's Scott briefly is an
00:09:08
oxymoron. Um, so I'm a professor. I'm
00:09:12
just getting traction at Stern. It's
00:09:14
like 200 when was it? I should know
00:09:16
this. 2007.
00:09:18
Finally, I'm finally getting traction as
00:09:20
a professor. And and my dean calls me
00:09:24
and says, "I need you to come up right
00:09:26
away." And when the dean calls me and
00:09:28
says, "Come up right away." right away.
00:09:29
It's either very good or very bad news.
00:09:30
So, I roll up there and he goes, he
00:09:32
goes, "Okay, so there's a rumor and he
00:09:35
goes, there's a second year who looks
00:09:36
like she's about to give birth." And I
00:09:40
mean, she's clearly very, very pregnant,
00:09:43
a second year student. Oh, no.
00:09:44
>> And there's a rumor that you're the
00:09:46
father.
00:09:47
>> What?
00:09:48
>> Yeah. True story. He goes, "There's a
00:09:50
rumor that you're the father." And I go,
00:09:51
"Well, I've got good news and bad news."
00:09:54
And he literally put his head in his
00:09:55
hands and went, "Oh, [ __ ] No.
00:09:58
And I said, "The bad news is I am the
00:10:01
father." And I said, "The good news is
00:10:03
we've been having sex for several
00:10:04
years." We disclosed in her application
00:10:06
that we were living together and in a
00:10:08
relationship together.
00:10:10
>> Thank you.
00:10:11
>> But we didn't pivot.
00:10:13
>> We didn't tell anyone, especially
00:10:15
students, and I didn't tell any of my
00:10:16
colleagues. I just disclosed it when she
00:10:18
was applying to the school. And uh but
00:10:21
yeah, that was that was I was I had
00:10:24
knocked up I had knocked up a student
00:10:26
who was who was walking around.
00:10:28
>> Oh no. Oh god. Okay. All right. On that
00:10:31
note, I had a lovely pregnancy and it
00:10:34
was all in a
00:10:35
>> open AI.
00:10:36
>> Open AI
00:10:37
>> and then I went and then I went on to do
00:10:38
the IPO of Red Envelope and a market cap
00:10:40
of 108 million.
00:10:42
>> Oh god, that ended badly. Okay, it did
00:10:45
end.
00:10:45
>> By the way, the legal stuff isn't over.
00:10:47
Moving on to more open AI legal news.
00:10:49
The company is reportedly weighing
00:10:51
possible legal action against Apple over
00:10:53
how chat GPT has been integrated into
00:10:56
devices and apps that were just waiting
00:10:57
for this trial to end. And here we are.
00:11:00
This deal could open uh that OpenAI
00:11:02
thought would bring billions of dollars
00:11:03
in subscriptions. Has not turned out
00:11:05
that way. Openey believes Apple failed
00:11:07
to give Chat GBT prominent placement in
00:11:10
Siri and iOS and didn't significantly
00:11:12
promote the integration. Apple has its
00:11:14
own concerns about open AI as they
00:11:16
should. questions around privacy and the
00:11:18
company's push into hardware and
00:11:20
devices. They did hire Johnny Ibata's
00:11:22
company. Another sign of the fring
00:11:24
relationship, Apple is planning to let
00:11:25
users choose between multiple AI models
00:11:27
the way they do with search, even though
00:11:29
they favor Google, including Gemini from
00:11:31
Google and Claude from Anthropic across
00:11:34
its software later this year. Um maybe
00:11:37
they'll sell the poll position to one of
00:11:38
them, but supposedly it was supposed to
00:11:40
be OpenAI. What do you think about
00:11:42
OpenAI taking on Apple? I don't know
00:11:43
what the contract is, but it kind of
00:11:46
goes to the notion that even one of the
00:11:47
most powerful companies in AI, it's all
00:11:50
about placement and distribution.
00:11:51
>> Absolutely.
00:11:52
>> Even going as far back as when um I was
00:11:56
running a strategy firm and we were
00:11:58
working for Levis's, they initially
00:12:00
decided they needed to go vertical
00:12:02
because J Penney would put their own
00:12:06
um Arizona brand at the front. I mean,
00:12:09
distribution just has so much power,
00:12:11
right? And even someone even something
00:12:13
as powerful as Open AI, if you put them
00:12:15
at at the bottom, they're not going to
00:12:18
get as much. But I've I've said for a
00:12:20
long time, I thought Apple was going to
00:12:21
continue to be the arbiter and basically
00:12:23
say, unless you pay us a lot of money,
00:12:25
we're not putting you at the top,
00:12:27
especially a company like Open AI. But I
00:12:29
don't know what the contract I don't
00:12:30
know if it's an actual I don't know if
00:12:32
it's an actual formal breach of contract
00:12:34
>> like the Disney Soros one that you had
00:12:36
called out as possibly being a nothing
00:12:38
burger. I I just I wonder, do you really
00:12:41
want to piss off the premier means of
00:12:43
distribution
00:12:44
with the kind of access to cheap capital
00:12:46
that Open AI has? And Sam Alman's a
00:12:48
smart man regardless of what you think
00:12:49
of them. I I don't see I would be trying
00:12:53
to figure out a way to cut a deal
00:12:56
similar to what Google did where we're
00:12:57
going to pay a [ __ ] ton of money and
00:12:58
we're going to be your default AI. So I
00:13:00
don't going after them legally. I don't
00:13:03
I don't
00:13:04
>> Maybe Apple doesn't want them to be
00:13:05
default AI. Maybe Apple does have
00:13:07
concerns. I don't know anything about
00:13:08
this. Do you know anything about the
00:13:09
legal veracity of the case? I just
00:13:11
>> I don't know. I mean, they obviously the
00:13:12
deal doesn't like these they they struck
00:13:13
all these very high-profile deals
00:13:15
whether it was Disney which became a
00:13:17
nothing burger. It was an experiment and
00:13:19
didn't really go anywhere. They, you
00:13:20
know, they did a lot of like ta kind of
00:13:23
things and this is the biggest one of
00:13:24
them. Um, and then they turned around
00:13:26
and did the Johnny IV thing, right,
00:13:28
which has got to chap Tim Cook's ass
00:13:31
like on some level, right? Even though
00:13:33
he's going to be stepping down. And at
00:13:35
the same time, they would have questions
00:13:37
about what they want to do. Now, of
00:13:39
course, Apple is a pay-to-play kind of
00:13:41
company too by giving Google probably
00:13:44
Google maps are very good. Theirs were
00:13:46
very good. There were other players.
00:13:48
They didn't give search to they gave
00:13:50
search to Google because they paid them
00:13:51
much. So, they they are they will take
00:13:54
your money and Google certainly has
00:13:56
issues around all manner of issues. So,
00:13:58
they didn't they sort of overlook those.
00:14:01
Um, so I don't know. I just I feel like
00:14:03
they'll be I I think letting people
00:14:05
choose between the multiple models is
00:14:07
the best way to go. I don't love this
00:14:09
place paytoplay kind of stuff cuz it
00:14:11
doesn't it may give you a good version
00:14:13
but it doesn't give you necessarily the
00:14:15
one you want. So it seems to me that
00:14:17
people should be able to choose their AI
00:14:19
model since Apple's not going to be
00:14:21
deploying that themselves. Um you know
00:14:24
if you want to use Claude you should be
00:14:26
able to use Claude and whoever and may
00:14:28
the best man win kind of thing. But
00:14:29
that's hard to do because people don't
00:14:31
really choose, do they? They just
00:14:33
default use Google Maps or Google
00:14:35
Search.
00:14:36
>> Well, you can make being your default if
00:14:38
you want. I I think they I think they I
00:14:41
don't think they
00:14:42
>> I think they
00:14:43
>> they play they play on the the inertia
00:14:46
of consumers and that is that's right.
00:14:48
They essentially basically my
00:14:50
understanding is with Google search
00:14:51
being the default on iOS, they make it
00:14:53
easier for you to use Google search than
00:14:56
use Bing.
00:14:56
>> Oh, it comes with it. You have to go
00:14:58
deep into the thing to change it like to
00:15:00
any of them just it's like six it's like
00:15:03
a lot of steps. I mean this is the same
00:15:05
across all of big tech. Amazon if you
00:15:07
want to be in the golden buy box you
00:15:09
know if you want to be top of search
00:15:10
results you have to pay and the way they
00:15:12
extract payment is that you have to use
00:15:14
Amazon media group you have to use their
00:15:17
fulfillment and then the algorithm
00:15:19
slowly but surely puts you towards the
00:15:20
top or depp prioritizes you and it's
00:15:22
like it's like having a store on Mars
00:15:24
just because you're on Amazon unless you
00:15:26
figure out a way to do pay for play. I
00:15:29
I' I've said for a long time, I think
00:15:30
eventually it'll move from these
00:15:32
companies getting paid by Apple to
00:15:34
Apple, extracting a lot of payments from
00:15:36
them.
00:15:36
>> Right. Right.
00:15:37
>> What I I think with Open AI though,
00:15:39
they're now
00:15:40
>> Well, Google pays Apple for those
00:15:41
things, right? They do get paid.
00:15:44
>> I thought Apple paid Google a billion
00:15:46
dollars to be the engine behind.
00:15:48
>> It's the opposite. It's the opposite.
00:15:50
Oh,
00:15:50
>> okay. So, they already
00:15:52
>> cases. Yes. Yes. They're used to that
00:15:54
model of let's we'll pick the winners
00:15:56
and then get paid
00:15:59
paid for it.
00:16:00
>> I thought Apple paid Google a billion
00:16:02
dollars a year for access to a custom
00:16:04
Gemini model.
00:16:04
>> Sounds like they they I'm talking about
00:16:06
search and maps. They they get paid. So
00:16:09
Google pays Apple to be the default
00:16:11
search, but yes, Apple is paying Google
00:16:13
around a billion dollars for Gemini.
00:16:15
They did this deal with Open AI, right?
00:16:17
To to get make them the favored nation.
00:16:19
At the time they did it. We thought that
00:16:20
was pretty smart of opening had to move
00:16:22
in there on Gemini and at the time
00:16:25
Claude was not that big a player right
00:16:27
so it was sort of a move on Gemini and
00:16:29
so um and here it didn't work out and I
00:16:33
bet Apple has all kinds of problems with
00:16:35
their privacy issues and the sort of
00:16:37
image around Sam everything else you
00:16:40
know what I mean like that's what it
00:16:41
feels like to me it's like it's a
00:16:43
regretful link or something and maybe
00:16:46
they aren't doing what it takes but a
00:16:48
lawsuit is not Great for open AI I
00:16:51
assume correct or not doesn't matter for
00:16:53
Apple. Well, it the fear is among
00:16:56
amongst open AI is this hands Google's
00:16:58
Gemini the keys of the Apple universe
00:17:00
and that's the same keys they've
00:17:02
possessed with search for two decades
00:17:04
right and Apple roots hysteria queries
00:17:08
through its private cloud compute
00:17:10
framework claiming user data is never
00:17:11
stored or used to train Google's models
00:17:14
and Apple evaluated or claims they
00:17:16
evaluated open AI and anthropic before
00:17:18
choosing Google I got to think there's
00:17:20
20 billion reasons why Apple wants to
00:17:22
maintain a good relationship with
00:17:23
Alphabet Also, that could be a court
00:17:25
case in a future Democratic
00:17:26
administration, too, right? Like they're
00:17:28
not they've already been in trouble for
00:17:31
those deals. That's been always been
00:17:32
part of the thing.
00:17:33
>> Well, that $20 billion accounts for
00:17:35
about 20% of Apple's annual services
00:17:37
revenue. So, it's real. I mean, that is
00:17:39
real. That's a that's a very that
00:17:41
strikes me as the the perfect
00:17:43
relationship that [ __ ] consumers.
00:17:46
>> Yes. Exactly. They they will get paid.
00:17:48
Apple will be the get the payee here.
00:17:50
They're not going to pay Google.
00:17:52
>> Oh, no. No. They control the
00:17:53
distribution. They control the
00:17:54
interface. They control custody of the
00:17:56
consumer. And it's the age-old argument
00:17:58
of who's more important, the
00:17:59
distribution or the manufacturer's
00:18:00
brand. And there's there's always an
00:18:03
argument. And that and then the
00:18:04
companies that get really really uh uh
00:18:07
have extraordinary shareholder value,
00:18:09
always either reverse engineer into
00:18:11
creating their own brands and
00:18:12
controlling and taking advantage. They
00:18:14
everyone goes vertical at some point or
00:18:17
they forward integrate and start
00:18:18
opening, you know, original Levi stores.
00:18:20
they start opening their own stores. But
00:18:23
in the case of Apple, they've done a
00:18:24
great job of deciding what they're going
00:18:26
to go vertical on and what they should
00:18:27
just extract a lump of flesh for. And I
00:18:30
would, again, I've said this before, I
00:18:32
think Apple's smart move, and as far as
00:18:34
I can tell, their strategy is to um
00:18:36
decide that around AI, they're going to
00:18:40
be the toll booth and let whoever the
00:18:42
highest bidder is be the default AI.
00:18:44
>> Yeah, it'll be questionable if they, as
00:18:45
we talked about last week about whether
00:18:46
they do this with Siri, right? Because
00:18:49
Siri just sucks. Are they going to make
00:18:50
Siri better or use someone else's? Siri
00:18:54
has never been intuitive. I I spend more
00:18:57
time arguing with Siri than anything
00:18:58
else. What I say
00:19:00
>> I think Oculus and Siri are arguably
00:19:03
arguably two of the worst brands in tech
00:19:05
over the last 10 years. I think they
00:19:07
become total cliches for [ __ ] that
00:19:09
doesn't work or that doesn't live up to
00:19:11
its its potential
00:19:13
>> because a lot of the AI interface is
00:19:15
going to be talking, right? Like, hey,
00:19:17
like like you're on the like you're in
00:19:19
Iron Man.
00:19:21
>> So, who does that?
00:19:22
>> Scarlett Johansson, it'll be her, right?
00:19:24
>> Yeah. Right. But who does who is that
00:19:26
company? Are they going to is Apple
00:19:28
going to default that or is that going
00:19:29
to be their thing? because they they
00:19:31
they I I I wish someone would do like a
00:19:34
really deep dive into what happened with
00:19:35
Siri, why it's so bad, and why it is
00:19:38
under resourced or I don't really I
00:19:41
don't even know, but it seems to me like
00:19:43
that's going to be the real interface is
00:19:45
the voice. But maybe not. I don't know.
00:19:48
>> No, I think you're right. I think what I
00:19:50
I think where it's shaping up and one of
00:19:51
the big
00:19:53
the under appreciated or insights is
00:19:57
that from a sensory perception I think
00:19:59
AI is going to be more about your ear
00:20:01
canal than your cornea or your eyes and
00:20:04
that is truly seamless AI will be a
00:20:06
function and again the Apple will
00:20:09
control the distribution with their
00:20:10
AirPods. What you're saying is what will
00:20:12
the branded voice be or will it be
00:20:14
branded? I guess you'll have to say hey
00:20:16
something to prompt it. Is it part of
00:20:18
who runs it? Who's the back? Anyway, I I
00:20:21
feel like there's a huge opportunity
00:20:22
here for one of these AI companies
00:20:24
because that's what you know as if
00:20:26
anyone who's done a a chatbot like this,
00:20:29
it's really it's the it's the way to
00:20:31
communicate. It's much faster. You don't
00:20:33
have to type things in. It's much
00:20:34
better. Anyway, speaking of we may not
00:20:36
get there because as these companies
00:20:38
fight, Americans are pushing back on
00:20:39
data centers powering all of it. Uh all
00:20:42
especially the AI. According to new
00:20:44
Gallup polling, seven in 10 Americans
00:20:46
oppose constructing data centers in
00:20:48
their local area. That's well no Trump
00:20:51
just had new polling. It's he's down
00:20:53
even further. But they don't like Trump.
00:20:55
They don't like data centers. The
00:20:56
opposition cuts across every major
00:20:58
demographic and political group.
00:21:00
Although Democrats are significantly
00:21:01
more likely than Republicans to strongly
00:21:03
oppose these data centers, but
00:21:04
Republicans don't like them either. Like
00:21:06
let's be clear, it's pretty interesting
00:21:08
that it's it's something that's quite
00:21:10
bipartisan. Um, you know, a lot of
00:21:13
people think this is going to be the
00:21:14
biggest. I do too when you hear from
00:21:16
people, especially as Elon like runs
00:21:18
rough shot over the Tennessee town with
00:21:21
his methane engines or whatever. Um,
00:21:24
with these Colossus, it just creates
00:21:27
this feeling of of I don't know what it
00:21:30
is. It's like these rich [ __ ] are
00:21:32
[ __ ] with our environment now, right?
00:21:34
And not to our benefit essentially. But
00:21:37
your thoughts on this? I think it's the
00:21:39
same reason that all these commencement
00:21:41
speakers got booed uh when they
00:21:43
mentioned AI.
00:21:44
>> That was I mean first off no one is
00:21:48
using AI more than college students and
00:21:52
there's also some evidence that it's not
00:21:54
the demand on the electricity or the
00:21:56
environmental concerns that I mean some
00:21:59
people will argue quite frankly that has
00:22:01
been exaggerated. I would like to see
00:22:04
the scientific evidence on that but
00:22:06
there's just no getting around it. But
00:22:07
what this represents is the following.
00:22:09
Whether you're booing Eric Schmidt or or
00:22:12
rallying against a data center,
00:22:15
Americans see their prices going up and
00:22:18
they're not participating in the wealth
00:22:21
creation of AI and it's just a proxy for
00:22:24
income inequality that okay, I hear
00:22:26
about,
00:22:28
you know, Anthropic is worth a trillion
00:22:30
dollars. San Francisco real estate
00:22:32
prices are booming, jet sales are
00:22:34
booming. There are 28-year-olds who are
00:22:37
lucky enough to get a job in coding at
00:22:40
OpenAI who are selling 710 $15 million
00:22:43
in stock and I can't afford detergent. I
00:22:47
I can't I'm worried about food costs.
00:22:50
And so when I hear a data center is
00:22:52
going up 40 miles from me in Utah, I
00:22:55
show up to the protest. whether or not I
00:22:57
see direct evidence of it hurting me or
00:22:59
not, this is a way of saying
00:23:01
AI has become indicative of income
00:23:04
inequality
00:23:06
and and so when anyone anyone shows up
00:23:09
at a commencement speech and starts
00:23:11
lecturing them on AI or they hear about
00:23:13
a data center, I think this is
00:23:15
essentially a vessel of people just uh
00:23:18
filling it and there I don't want to I
00:23:19
don't want to diminish their concerns. I
00:23:21
think there are some real questions that
00:23:22
need to be answered around these d these
00:23:24
data centers. But I feel mostly this is
00:23:28
a vessel for people's rage around it
00:23:30
seems like everyone is doing well except
00:23:33
for me and that America's giant bet on
00:23:36
AI is paying off for a small group of
00:23:38
people and I'm not part of that group.
00:23:40
>> Why why not the companies themselves and
00:23:42
why these because I guess data centers
00:23:44
are physical, right? They're here,
00:23:46
they're there, they see
00:23:46
>> gives you somewhere to go protest.
00:23:48
>> It's also dystopian, right? They're feel
00:23:50
dystopian. They feel like they're
00:23:52
probably not going to have a lot of
00:23:53
people running them. It's not going to
00:23:55
provide the jobs. They're going around
00:23:58
local governments to try to like pay off
00:24:00
people to put them in in the way others.
00:24:03
There are worries about the energy costs
00:24:06
that'll go up in these areas. There's
00:24:08
like some real things. And then there's
00:24:10
the pollution aspect. And I think Elon's
00:24:12
as usual been like the the poster child
00:24:15
for abuse of poor people, right? These
00:24:17
are usually in poor areas. Also, I think
00:24:19
it's just even beyond the worries about
00:24:21
things. It's more of a a creeping worry
00:24:25
about what tech is. Again, the more
00:24:28
villainous they they we don't assume the
00:24:30
best of these people ever, nor should
00:24:33
we. That kind of thing.
00:24:34
>> Well, the one being planned in Utah
00:24:35
that's sort of been the lightning rod or
00:24:37
kind of embodies this one. They have the
00:24:39
wrong spokesperson. Kevin Olri is seen
00:24:41
as someone who's not that empathetic.
00:24:43
>> Oh god. an old white guy who just
00:24:45
doesn't he does not appeal to this this
00:24:48
cohort. It's going to be two and a half
00:24:51
times the envisioned data center is
00:24:53
going to be two and a half times the
00:24:54
size of Manhattan.
00:24:56
Um they have not figured out a way to
00:24:58
communicate the economic benefits and
00:25:00
you're right this notion that you could
00:25:02
turn the lights off on these things
00:25:03
during the day because there's so few
00:25:05
people working there. The bigger threat
00:25:07
in my view and of course we're not
00:25:09
talking about this but if you look at
00:25:11
history when we have spent more than 3%
00:25:13
of GDP on any infrastructure buildout
00:25:16
whether it's the railroads where I think
00:25:17
we got up to 10% we did two big
00:25:19
buildouts whether it's the
00:25:21
electrification and the highways
00:25:23
remember the telco infrastructure
00:25:24
buildout of the late '9s
00:25:26
>> sure
00:25:27
>> whenever we do that and go over above 3%
00:25:29
in 3 years there's a crash because and
00:25:32
what might make this crash especially
00:25:33
severe is that railroads need upgrading
00:25:37
every 50 years, telco every 20 years, a
00:25:40
data center is basically obsolete in
00:25:41
four or five years.
00:25:42
>> Yeah.
00:25:43
>> Yeah.
00:25:43
>> So I think there I think obviously you
00:25:46
need to look at the environmental
00:25:47
concerns, you need to look at energy
00:25:49
costs, but I would imagine there's so
00:25:51
much money on the line here that these
00:25:52
companies and these city councils would
00:25:55
be able to come to some sort of
00:25:56
accommodation around how do we ensure
00:25:58
the local populace does not see its
00:26:00
electricity costs just go through the
00:26:02
roof.
00:26:03
One would imagine and I know the Trump
00:26:04
administration has been trying to do. I
00:26:06
think the hiring of Dena Powell was the
00:26:08
reason for that is she's very as
00:26:11
president of Meta. I think that's
00:26:12
probably going to be a lot of her jobs
00:26:13
these data centers worldwide. By the
00:26:15
way, it's also in the Middle East. It's
00:26:16
also because they want to have big data
00:26:18
centers there and they have much more
00:26:20
control over their populace. Um but I do
00:26:22
think it's sort of the last play of
00:26:24
these governments not to put up with
00:26:27
this. I you know it's a really
00:26:28
interesting dynamic of people who are
00:26:31
sort of years ago uh one of the Joe
00:26:34
Kennedy Jr. I think I've said this came
00:26:36
I had I went to his office and he was
00:26:38
talking about Amazon putting in a
00:26:39
warehouse into his district and he goes
00:26:42
well what this is probably good for
00:26:43
people. I said oh no it's it's not good
00:26:45
it's not going to be good for people.
00:26:47
They're here to help themselves. I think
00:26:49
people at their very core understand as
00:26:51
you were saying that this is not for
00:26:53
them. This is for others to to benefit
00:26:56
and it's not to help them in any way. So
00:26:59
why should we give up environmental
00:27:02
stuff or more energy prices more than
00:27:04
environmental? Anyway,
00:27:05
>> again, I think I think the the the curb
00:27:10
or the retail story or the cover story
00:27:12
is we're worried about environmental and
00:27:14
demands on the grid. I think what's
00:27:16
really going on here is this is just
00:27:18
rage at income inequality and
00:27:21
>> big tech and the data center is the
00:27:23
manifestation
00:27:24
>> and can see it
00:27:25
>> that we can see it and protest against
00:27:27
it. I I I think this is I think we're
00:27:30
whenever we get to these levels of
00:27:31
income inequality we have war, famine or
00:27:33
revolution. I would argue we have all
00:27:35
three of those but revolution always
00:27:36
takes on a different complexion. I think
00:27:38
what we have now is a series of small
00:27:40
revolutions and they're going after
00:27:43
people they generally speaking big tech,
00:27:46
old people, white people, rich people.
00:27:51
>> Okay.
00:27:52
Tell me tell me you're involved in a
00:27:54
data center without telling me you're
00:27:55
involved in
00:27:56
>> I know Kevin earlier shows up with his
00:27:57
multi-million dollar.
00:27:58
>> He's literally the worst spokesperson in
00:28:00
the world for this show.
00:28:01
>> Did you see that outfit he was wearing?
00:28:03
I was like, "Oh my god, you literally
00:28:05
look like the guy, you know, the
00:28:06
Monopoly man. That's what he looks like,
00:28:08
the Monopoly man." Like, it just is not
00:28:11
I I I'm not a fan of of Mr.
00:28:13
>> Yeah. It's only a matter of days before
00:28:15
you see AOC and Bernie Sanders at these
00:28:17
sites whipping people up into a friend.
00:28:19
It'll be like
00:28:20
>> It'll be like the modern day equivalent
00:28:21
when Bob Barker used to go to animal
00:28:23
shelters and just go crazy and
00:28:25
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:26
>> Yeah. We'll see where it goes. Now,
00:28:28
speaking of this, which I think is
00:28:30
getting people furious, too, and I do
00:28:31
think this is the new financial
00:28:33
disclosures show Trump or his investment
00:28:35
advisors made more than 3,700 stock
00:28:37
trades in the first quarter of 2026
00:28:39
involving hundreds of millions of
00:28:40
dollars. The filings show major buys in
00:28:43
companies like Nvidia, Boeing, Intel,
00:28:45
Microsoft, and Oracle, many of which are
00:28:46
directly affected by Trump
00:28:48
administration uh policy decisions, as
00:28:50
the FCC chairperson Anna Gomez calls
00:28:52
billionaire buddy deals. Um, in the case
00:28:55
of Palanteer, Trump made at least seven
00:28:57
purchases of the stock totaling as much
00:28:58
as $530,000 in March, then just happened
00:29:02
to praise the company on Truth Social
00:29:03
after shares suffered their worst week
00:29:05
in a year the following month. I mean,
00:29:08
uh,
00:29:09
what what does it actually take to have
00:29:11
consequences here? And does it all end
00:29:14
up with Trump or is he permanently
00:29:15
changed what Americans will tolerate
00:29:16
from presidents? cuz this is like
00:29:18
there's a great I literally feel like
00:29:20
he's going to start taking milk money
00:29:22
from kids like at some point if you
00:29:24
remember that that expression. I just
00:29:26
this is like is there anywhere he
00:29:28
doesn't cheat and advantage himself in a
00:29:31
way that's like really obvious grift
00:29:35
like obvious and really kind of
00:29:37
upsetting grift.
00:29:38
>> I think you asked exactly the correct
00:29:40
question and that is what can be done
00:29:42
about it. I'm just I'm I want to move
00:29:44
past the Democrats indignation and
00:29:46
constantly bitching about it, but no
00:29:49
real ideas on how to stop it. And so,
00:29:52
let's set the table here to your point
00:29:53
about a level of griff that is just
00:29:55
absolutely unprecedented.
00:29:57
>> He has um executed more than 3,700
00:30:00
trades in the first quarter of 2026.
00:30:03
He's doing 40 trades a day, by the way,
00:30:06
throughout his life. It's not like he's
00:30:07
someone addicted to trading on Robin
00:30:09
Hood. And this is just him, you know,
00:30:11
Trump being Trumpy. He usually didn't
00:30:14
make this many trades in a year. And all
00:30:16
of a sudden, he has access to influence
00:30:18
around these companies and he's decided
00:30:20
to start trading stocks. Trump bought
00:30:22
500,000 to a million dollars in Nvidia
00:30:24
stock one week before his commerce
00:30:26
department approved Nvidia chip sales to
00:30:28
China. He bought somewhere between 1
00:30:30
and5 million the week before they
00:30:31
announced a major deal with Meta. He's
00:30:35
he he bought Dell stock before he
00:30:37
started carving up Tik Tok and giving it
00:30:39
to wait for it Michael Dell. The same
00:30:42
with Oracle. And we have unfortunately
00:30:45
relied on a series of norms that has
00:30:48
resulted in every president since LBJ
00:30:50
using a blind trust. Obama did index
00:30:53
funds and treasury bills. Everyone else
00:30:55
has put their stuff into a blind trust.
00:30:57
He claims his trust is blind dish
00:30:59
because his sons operate it who are the
00:31:01
same people roaming around extracting a
00:31:03
pound of flesh
00:31:04
>> and on the trips to China just here to
00:31:06
support dad. Give me a [ __ ] break.
00:31:09
>> So insider trading or the veil or the
00:31:12
appearance of insider trading has
00:31:13
essentially defined Trump's second term.
00:31:16
Just before liberation day, more than a
00:31:19
dozen government officials made
00:31:20
welltimed stock sales. What a what a
00:31:23
coincidence.
00:31:24
So his his memecoin hit a $27 billion
00:31:28
market cap inauguration week with 58
00:31:30
anonymous wallets making over a billion
00:31:32
dollars dumping it while 800,000 retail
00:31:35
investors lost 2 billion combined. 15
00:31:37
minutes before Trump announced Iran
00:31:39
peace stocks 500 million in oil futures
00:31:41
and one and a half billion in S&P
00:31:43
futures traded hands.
00:31:44
>> Cali trading who knows he's doing that.
00:31:46
All let's be clear. There appears to be
00:31:48
an unprecedented pattern of information
00:31:50
that seems to be only available from
00:31:52
Trump or people surrounding him engaging
00:31:55
in what feels like either market
00:31:56
manipulation or what could classically
00:31:58
be defined as insider trading. And the
00:32:01
damage there is it's not only a conflict
00:32:03
of interest and skewing their decisions,
00:32:06
it creates a lack of trust in the
00:32:08
markets where people think if I don't
00:32:10
have insider information, I shouldn't
00:32:11
buy stocks because the person buying or
00:32:13
selling stock has more information than
00:32:14
me. And you start to see Russia which
00:32:16
has uh a total stock market value of
00:32:19
what our stock market trades about every
00:32:21
seven seconds and you lose access to
00:32:23
cheap capital and your whole economy
00:32:25
starts to decline because companies
00:32:26
can't can't find uh pools of capital
00:32:29
that are formed based on a certain rule
00:32:31
of law and fair play. The question is
00:32:33
okay great now what do we do about it?
00:32:35
And this is where I think the Democrats
00:32:36
again have fallen short and that is
00:32:39
we're long on indignation but we're
00:32:41
short on ideas. And I believe that
00:32:44
someone running for president should say
00:32:46
one of my first acts is I'm going to
00:32:48
work with the following states AGs. I
00:32:50
think there's been insider trading. I
00:32:53
think they'll have to discourage at a
00:32:54
minimum their profits, including
00:32:56
Democrats. Including Democrats who've
00:32:58
engaged in insider trading. I think
00:33:00
there has been wire fraud. I think there
00:33:02
has been effectively what announced
00:33:05
defense concerns or violations of the
00:33:07
imalments clause. I'm going to go after
00:33:09
cabinet members. I'm going to go after
00:33:10
their sons through the letter of the
00:33:12
law. And the key here is I'm going to do
00:33:15
it with the following state ages such
00:33:17
that this legal action is not exempted
00:33:21
or protected by a presidential pardon.
00:33:23
>> Right.
00:33:24
>> But somebody needs to lay this [ __ ] out.
00:33:26
>> Right. Right.
00:33:28
>> I mean,
00:33:28
>> yeah. Well, Rahm Emanuel has. Others
00:33:30
have. Some several have. Let me be
00:33:33
>> Well, Ram Rahm is the only one.
00:33:35
>> He just laid it out in a piece. Ram is
00:33:37
the only one who's actually moved to the
00:33:39
ideas part of if I worry we are going to
00:33:43
be in for a rude awakening if we think
00:33:45
we're going to win just based on
00:33:48
indignance and hating Trump. It's got to
00:33:50
be all right. What are you going to do
00:33:52
about it? And the way you get legitimacy
00:33:54
here is one by saying any Democrat
00:33:57
that's engaged in this [ __ ] which
00:33:59
they have we're going after as well. And
00:34:01
also, don't think a presidential pardon
00:34:04
is going to get you out of this, folks,
00:34:05
because this comes down to incentives.
00:34:06
And until these believe people believe
00:34:08
they could be subject to something on
00:34:10
January 21st of 2028 or excuse me, 2029,
00:34:14
they're going to continue to engage in
00:34:15
it,
00:34:16
>> right? Because these are easily, you
00:34:17
know, these cases are much easier to
00:34:19
win, by the way, in terms
00:34:20
>> digital proof everywhere.
00:34:22
>> That's right. I I I have told you this
00:34:23
but there is a group of people
00:34:25
technologists who are saving crypto
00:34:28
things for later like so later when it
00:34:30
happens like when it when you can do
00:34:32
something like this they'll be
00:34:33
>> they have prints on the trades. Yes,
00:34:35
they have been watching it. They've been
00:34:36
collecting it and they're holding it.
00:34:38
And so there are there's an ability to
00:34:40
track this stuff, folks. And you're
00:34:41
absolutely right. This is this grift has
00:34:44
got to be they're not going to Some of
00:34:46
them are going to Look, Trump probably
00:34:47
is going to walk away. Let's be clear.
00:34:49
Unfortunately,
00:34:51
getting our hands on him is going to be
00:34:53
pointless, angerfilled.
00:34:55
>> Let biology take care of
00:34:56
>> Let it let him He's old. Like he is not
00:34:59
going to be gotten. the sons of these
00:35:01
people and the Lutniks of the world. All
00:35:03
these people, it feels so dirty like
00:35:06
what's happening with Witoff and the all
00:35:09
these kids are like swanning around. I
00:35:11
can tell you they're swanning around
00:35:13
Washington and there is Dumb and Dumber
00:35:16
doesn't even begin to describe them and
00:35:18
they are just they're just they're just
00:35:20
on the make and it's grotesque. It's
00:35:22
just grotesque what's going on here. And
00:35:24
let me tell you the people who are mad
00:35:25
about data centers, they're also taking
00:35:27
advantage you everywhere else. And so
00:35:30
[ __ ] you is their [ __ ] how to [ __ ] you
00:35:32
is their is their operating principle.
00:35:34
And if they can do it in a shortcut way
00:35:36
without working at it, that's their
00:35:38
favorite way. And so I agree with you
00:35:40
there. This is what any any democratic
00:35:43
person wants to come and talk to us, we
00:35:45
will give you a speech for you to do
00:35:47
this. Um anyway, we have to go on a on a
00:35:49
quick break. Uh when we come back, Elon
00:35:51
Musk's plan to make sure no one can fire
00:35:53
him from SpaceX, another monarchy.
00:35:56
Support for this show comes from Delete
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00:37:07
Scott, we're back with more news. SpaceX
00:37:09
is expected to file for its IPO this
00:37:11
week, which will be interesting. I'm
00:37:12
excited for you to read it and tell me
00:37:13
all about it. at a valuation of roughly
00:37:16
$2 trillion, aiming to go public June
00:37:18
12th on NASDAQ. We're also learning
00:37:20
about more about the governance
00:37:22
structure. No surprise, CEO Elon Musk
00:37:24
would control a super majority of class
00:37:26
B stock with 10 times the voting power
00:37:28
of ordinary shares. This is not
00:37:30
uncommon. Google and other companies
00:37:31
have this um meta things like or version
00:37:35
of this. The prospectus says Elon can
00:37:37
only be removed by class B shareholders
00:37:39
and he will control the election and
00:37:41
removal of directors as long as he holds
00:37:43
his stake. Investors are warned this
00:37:45
will limit or preclude your ability to
00:37:47
influence corporate uh matters. It's
00:37:50
already in place right now, by the way,
00:37:52
but come on. Of course, he's going to do
00:37:54
this. And there's another yet another
00:37:56
incentive for Elon. If SpaceX reaches a
00:37:59
$7.5 trillion valuation, and it
00:38:02
establishes a 1 million person colony on
00:38:04
Mars, he could receive up to 200 million
00:38:07
in shares. Let's talk about this board
00:38:10
membership. Uh Scott, because you you've
00:38:12
been an investor, you've been a board
00:38:13
member. Elon defended on ex writing, "I
00:38:15
need to make sure SpaceX stays focused
00:38:17
on making life multilanetarian,
00:38:20
extending consciousness to the stars,
00:38:21
not pandering to someone's [ __ ]
00:38:23
quarterly earnings bonus." In other
00:38:24
words, he doesn't want to have a public
00:38:26
company, but he wants the benefits of a
00:38:28
public company. Um, only thing I will
00:38:30
say here, he truly does believe in this
00:38:32
multilanetary extending consciousness.
00:38:35
It's not, this is not marketing on his
00:38:37
behalf. He has a demented loony idea
00:38:40
that humanity will die and he should be
00:38:42
the god of Mars. So, and speaking of
00:38:45
war, um, but your thoughts on this
00:38:48
entire thing besides monarchy and
00:38:50
god-like feelings that he has?
00:38:52
>> Well, just a brief history of dual class
00:38:53
shareholder companies. They were
00:38:55
originally invented by media companies
00:38:56
who claimed they wanted to pursue
00:38:58
journalism without the vagaries.
00:39:00
>> New York Times.
00:39:01
>> Well, yeah, a bunch of them actually.
00:39:03
Almost a lot of them said, and there's
00:39:05
some legitimacy there. These families
00:39:07
said, "We don't want someone who hates
00:39:09
us to show up and start dictating
00:39:11
editorial control. So, we want to
00:39:12
maintain control. Whether you believe
00:39:15
that or not, fine." But then the first
00:39:17
tech company to do that was uh the
00:39:20
Google guys. They said, "We want two
00:39:22
classes of shares." And what's
00:39:24
interesting is in the late '9s there was
00:39:28
a rumor that Seoia was trying to sell
00:39:31
its shares in a private uh Google
00:39:34
because the they they clashed they
00:39:37
really clashed with Sergey and Larry who
00:39:39
demanded two class of shares and that
00:39:41
was so unusual and Sequoa's thought was
00:39:44
you're not going to be able to get
00:39:45
public. You're not a newspaper company.
00:39:47
you're not a journalism company or a
00:39:48
tech company. And basically Google then
00:39:52
everybody else has followed in Google's
00:39:54
footsteps. Now to be fair to Musk, uh,
00:39:57
you know, when I went on the board of
00:39:58
the New York Times and was the largest
00:39:59
shareholder,
00:40:01
I all I really was was heckling from the
00:40:03
cheap seats and effectively an advisory
00:40:05
board. So while you get some sort of
00:40:08
representation, you really don't have at
00:40:11
the end of the day, the family decides
00:40:12
what they're going to do over
00:40:13
Thanksgiving dinner. The Ford family is
00:40:15
the same way. They own very few shares
00:40:17
but they control the company and tech
00:40:19
has figured this out. So this is this is
00:40:21
nothing nothing new and to be fair most
00:40:23
of the academic studies have shown that
00:40:25
dual class shareholder companies have
00:40:27
not vastly underperformed single share
00:40:29
companies.
00:40:29
>> Yeah I don't think that's the issue.
00:40:31
It's they can't be fired.
00:40:33
>> Oh he's in charge. And not only that but
00:40:35
I mean this is where the [ __ ] will get
00:40:36
crazy and I can't wait to read the S1.
00:40:39
you know, Adam Newman wanted his kids to
00:40:41
inherit the company, you know, and Musk
00:40:44
is saying, so but look, you the reality
00:40:48
is shareholders have a choice around
00:40:49
whether they want to buy shares. And
00:40:52
what you do with a tool class
00:40:53
shareholder company is one, eventually
00:40:55
you get a bad king, and two, you take
00:40:57
out a premium of of a possible takeover.
00:41:00
And that is Warner Brothers Discovery.
00:41:01
When AT&T spun Warner Brothers, they
00:41:05
demanded a single class share stock such
00:41:07
that the company could be put into play.
00:41:10
And whenever a company is a single share
00:41:12
uh class share company, it usually
00:41:14
trades theoretically at a bit of a
00:41:16
premium because someone could come in
00:41:18
and buy it. So this is this is just you
00:41:22
have to decide whether you believe in
00:41:24
Musk and to be also just the market says
00:41:27
not people are not only willing to put
00:41:28
up a dual class shareholder company
00:41:30
they're willing to buy at what are
00:41:33
errant abnormal extraordinary valuations
00:41:36
because of Musk's involvement but this
00:41:39
is these super voting shares started
00:41:42
with media companies or newspaper
00:41:43
companies then leaked into tech and now
00:41:45
almost everyone is doing it when they go
00:41:48
public Right. I I that that I don't
00:41:50
fault him on. Like, of course. And he,
00:41:51
by the way, he's been running Tesla like
00:41:53
that anyway without having this kind of
00:41:56
thing, right? It doesn't matter. The the
00:41:58
board has has has has
00:42:01
whatever he wants. It's like it's a
00:42:02
completely bought and paid for board
00:42:05
essentially. And so, he gets that shares
00:42:08
and he always threatens to leave and he
00:42:09
throws a fit and it just didn't work at
00:42:11
Open AI. That's what happened there.
00:42:13
They're like, "Yeah, we'll be fine
00:42:14
without you." And they were um for a
00:42:16
time. Uh, so I think this is not an
00:42:19
unusual thing and you do have to realize
00:42:21
he's not going to he is a key man here.
00:42:24
It's just like one bad night in Austin
00:42:26
and you know that's the problem with all
00:42:28
this stuff or he loses interest like
00:42:30
he's done at Tesla. Now the shares have
00:42:32
stayed up because it's a meme stock but
00:42:35
the company's not headed in the right.
00:42:36
He's just lost interest in it and is you
00:42:39
know that's the problem you have here is
00:42:41
these single monarchies. Uh same thing
00:42:44
with with with Zuckerberg. He happens to
00:42:46
be vibrant right now, but boy has he
00:42:48
made a series of idiotic move that would
00:42:50
have gotten other people fired and he
00:42:52
won't be fired. And it it is part of a
00:42:55
mentality of I am the king, I am the god
00:42:58
and that that you have got to buy into
00:43:00
but it has enormous risk because it's
00:43:03
all based predicated on one person and
00:43:07
sometimes that's good but sometimes
00:43:09
that's not so good. Like I just feel
00:43:11
like that buyer beware essentially you
00:43:14
could do well. I think that Musk I I
00:43:16
think there's no way to build a company
00:43:17
like SpaceX or Tesla without having a
00:43:21
ton of good people around him. The
00:43:22
reason why the Messiah complex comes
00:43:25
into effect in that is no one is allowed
00:43:27
to get near.
00:43:29
>> I'm pretty sure the fastest way to get
00:43:30
fired at Tesla or SpaceX is to ever say
00:43:33
anything at a mic. Only Elon is allowed
00:43:37
to talk. This is all about Elon. He's
00:43:39
the genius.
00:43:41
>> We don't There is no Ruth Pat, you know.
00:43:44
There is no Tim Armstrong. There is no
00:43:46
correct. There's no one else anyone's
00:43:48
allowed. You're locked in.
00:43:49
>> Can I say something? Can I just
00:43:51
interject? When I wanted to interview
00:43:52
Gwen Shotwell years and years ago at one
00:43:54
of my code conferences, they said only
00:43:56
Elon will speak to you. Like I was like,
00:43:59
what are you talking about? She's
00:44:00
obviously doing an amazing job. Like I
00:44:02
really wanted to
00:44:05
>> all about Elon.
00:44:06
>> Only Elon. And I was like I remember at
00:44:08
the time being like well that's [ __ ]
00:44:09
up because she deserves like I want to
00:44:12
hear from her anyway. But but what I
00:44:14
would suggest investors do when the S1
00:44:16
comes out and I'm going to spend some
00:44:17
time on this is not focus on the dual
00:44:20
class shareholder structure but simple
00:44:22
uh basic boring stuff uh or the boring
00:44:24
knitting of valuation and that is the
00:44:26
following. At some point an amazing
00:44:29
company is a shitty investment if it
00:44:30
gets too expensive and at some point a
00:44:32
shitty company is an amazing investment
00:44:33
if it gets cheap enough. And let's just
00:44:34
talk about valuation here. Google IPOed
00:44:38
trading at about 10 times trailing
00:44:40
revenue and it was growing revenues 240%
00:44:43
before the IPO. So 10 times revenue
00:44:46
growing 240% a year. Meta IPOed at 28
00:44:50
times trailing revenue growing revenues
00:44:52
at 88% a year before the IPO. Saudi
00:44:55
Aramco five times trailing revenue
00:44:57
growing revenues 41% a year. SpaceX will
00:45:00
IPO at 109 times trailing revenue,
00:45:04
growing revenues at 20% a year.
00:45:07
>> Ouch.
00:45:08
>> So, and to be clear, space is the
00:45:11
ultimate addressable market. They have
00:45:13
most the size of the Amazon, but it's
00:45:16
going out at 10 times the valuation on a
00:45:20
multiple basis as Google did with a
00:45:22
tenth of the growth. And then if you
00:45:25
just want to look at valuations, Amazon
00:45:27
went public at 900 million. Microsoft at
00:45:29
2.3 billion, Apple at 7 billion, and
00:45:32
Google at 40 billion, and what SpaceX is
00:45:36
targeting two trillion. So, all I have
00:45:39
to say is, is is SpaceX an amazing
00:45:43
company or is it massively overvalued?
00:45:47
The answer is yes.
00:45:48
>> Yes. Yeah. Well, we'll see. And you
00:45:50
could still do well. Okay, moving on
00:45:51
very quickly. Louisiana Senator Bill
00:45:53
Cassie lost his Republican primary after
00:45:55
President Trump targeted him in
00:45:56
retaliation for voting to convict him in
00:45:58
his impeachment trial 5 years ago. Trump
00:46:01
backed Representative Julia Lelo uh who
00:46:04
finished ahead with about 45% of the
00:46:06
vote on true social. Trump celebrated
00:46:08
the loss saying that Cassid's disloyalty
00:46:10
to the man who got him elected is now
00:46:12
part of legend and it's nice to see that
00:46:14
his political career is over. Cassidy
00:46:16
took a swipe at Trump during his
00:46:17
concession speech. Just listen to a
00:46:19
clip. When you participate in democracy,
00:46:22
sometimes it doesn't turn out the way
00:46:24
you want it to. But you don't pout. You
00:46:27
don't whine. You don't claim the
00:46:29
election was stolen. You don't find a
00:46:31
reason why.
00:46:38
You don't manufacture some excuse. You
00:46:41
thank the voters for the privilege of
00:46:43
representing the state or the country
00:46:45
for as long as you've had that
00:46:46
privilege. So interestingly also just
00:46:49
for a related story, Supreme Court
00:46:50
blocked an effort to revive Democratic
00:46:52
backed Virginia congressional map that
00:46:54
could have flipped several GOP house
00:46:56
seats. The map uh had been approved by
00:46:58
voters but struck down by Virginia
00:46:59
Supreme Court and Supreme Court did not
00:47:01
give a reason for denying the emergency
00:47:02
appeal in the order. They usually don't
00:47:04
meddle with Supreme Courts really is
00:47:06
what I'm told. Um so there's some worry
00:47:08
that Democrats should worry about the
00:47:10
political environment. Others feel no
00:47:12
that it's not the case that it was it
00:47:14
was a good thing to have but not a
00:47:15
mustave. I mean, this Cassie thing is
00:47:17
interesting because suddenly, again,
00:47:19
like Tom Tillis, he's found his balls
00:47:21
and he does have until January to do
00:47:23
something about it. He's the one that
00:47:24
backed RFK and even though he knew
00:47:26
better, he did a lot. He voted yes for
00:47:28
Pete Hegathth. Shouldn't have done it,
00:47:30
now can be regretful of it. I know
00:47:32
Tillis took a really big slap at
00:47:34
Hegathth this week. These two could make
00:47:37
trouble for Trump until January. Quite a
00:47:39
bit of trouble. Um, but you know, as
00:47:42
Tillis did with the with um around the
00:47:45
uh Fed chairman uh vote. Uh so what do
00:47:49
you think about this? I mean, democracy
00:47:50
is democracy and Trump has power in
00:47:52
these states. So thoughts about both
00:47:54
things?
00:47:55
>> I'm torn because I understand I'm
00:47:57
sympathetic to the notion that you can't
00:48:00
do good if you don't get elected. And
00:48:02
this is no longer the Republican party.
00:48:04
It's MAGA. It puts these people in a
00:48:05
very difficult position. I also think
00:48:07
there's some legitimacy to the argument
00:48:09
that Bill Cassidy should lose his
00:48:10
medical license because to
00:48:12
>> oh
00:48:13
>> to be well he was the swing vote
00:48:15
>> I know that I got
00:48:17
>> believe it
00:48:18
>> they got RFK
00:48:20
I mean I've said this before no one is
00:48:22
doing more damage abroad than Secretary
00:48:25
Hagsath no one is doing more damage to
00:48:26
children domestically than RFK Jr.
00:48:30
Uh, measles is on the rise.
00:48:32
>> I know you mean it's repulsive.
00:48:35
>> He's a murderer. He's a murderer.
00:48:37
>> So, and this is the doctor. He took a
00:48:40
hypocratic oath
00:48:43
and he confirmed a guy he knew was was
00:48:47
creating fear and insecurity around our
00:48:49
medical our great medical institutions
00:48:50
and around and and and demonizing
00:48:54
vaccines.
00:48:55
And he's a [ __ ] doctor. I mean, so I
00:49:00
I I want to feel some glee here, but
00:49:02
here's the problem.
00:49:04
It was good to have a doctor on many of
00:49:05
these panels. He was about as reasonable
00:49:08
as they came. The person that's probably
00:49:11
going to replace him is going to be
00:49:12
worse. So, this is just one of those
00:49:14
things. It's like shavings of [ __ ] on a
00:49:16
[ __ ] salad. And it's fun to be gleeful
00:49:19
about it and say, "Senator Cassidy,
00:49:21
you're, you know, the only thing I know
00:49:24
that's gonna come of this is, oh my god,
00:49:26
wait and see the testicles that this
00:49:28
senator is suddenly about to find he
00:49:30
has."
00:49:30
>> Yes, he just did.
00:49:31
>> Just watch him on Bill Maher. All of a
00:49:33
sudden, he's going to turn into a trutht
00:49:35
teller.
00:49:35
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:36
>> I can't wait to see what he says about
00:49:38
RFK now.
00:49:39
>> Yeah.
00:49:39
>> And the problem is, folks, that's not
00:49:41
when we need your testicles.
00:49:43
>> That's correct.
00:49:44
>> That's not when we need you to be a
00:49:46
leader. So I I I just think this is you
00:49:49
look left, you look right, and this is
00:49:51
[ __ ] avenue because he was a reasonable
00:49:54
guy. You do need medical professionals
00:49:56
on these panels to say, "Okay, one of us
00:49:59
is a doctor. Everyone else shut the [ __ ]
00:50:01
up." I I think that training does pay
00:50:04
off. I believe in expertise. I believe
00:50:06
in credentials. I believe in
00:50:07
peer-reviewed research. I believe in
00:50:08
science. And so should America. We need
00:50:11
more doctors, I think, in in Congress.
00:50:14
the person who replaces him and he must
00:50:16
be pissed off because quite frankly
00:50:18
while they're saying he came in third,
00:50:20
he actually barely lost because he got
00:50:22
25.
00:50:24
The other candidate who was anti-Trump
00:50:26
or not a Trumpy got 28. So if he had
00:50:28
just gotten 28 or 29, he might have won
00:50:32
in the general. I got to be honest
00:50:34
though, you know what I'm so excited to
00:50:36
see?
00:50:36
>> What?
00:50:37
>> Oh my god, he's going after village
00:50:40
idiot Lauren Boowbert.
00:50:41
>> Oh, he's going after Lauren Boowbert.
00:50:42
And I just I just want to say I'm going
00:50:44
to host a fundraiser for for Boowbert
00:50:47
and it's going to be whoever wins, she
00:50:49
has to go on a date with your
00:50:50
17-year-old son. I think she is the best
00:50:52
date for a high school.
00:50:54
>> Oh my god.
00:50:54
>> She'll let you.
00:50:58
She goes to Beetlejuice.
00:51:00
>> Where were you when I was 17?
00:51:02
Representative Boowbert, where were you?
00:51:05
>> No, you didn't say anything about the
00:51:06
Democratic thing in Virginia. Briefly,
00:51:08
>> but I said this last week. I we we're
00:51:11
hoping that that redistricting
00:51:15
is beat by vibes. I just don't think
00:51:18
there's any way to to to polish this.
00:51:20
This is bad for Democrats.
00:51:22
>> Yeah, I think I I think he can't deny
00:51:24
polling. Polling is polling and
00:51:25
everywhere it happens. You got to win by
00:51:28
winning the votes. That's the way you
00:51:29
got to do it.
00:51:30
>> But but I take the other side of that.
00:51:31
If you jerrymander enough, you can win.
00:51:33
You can win more than you deserve.
00:51:35
>> I still think it's an overwhelming It's
00:51:37
going to be a train. the latest. All
00:51:39
right. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll
00:51:41
see. By the way, I believe in the
00:51:42
voters.
00:51:42
>> By the way, another talking point, Pete.
00:51:45
Pete or Rom. This is my grid. I took a
00:51:48
grid. It's It's my my eight-year-old did
00:51:52
it. You know, Pete has little kids. He
00:51:54
draw he drew eight lines exactly
00:51:57
equidistant, horizontally, and he put it
00:52:00
on top of the US map. And this is what
00:52:02
I'm going to propose for congressional
00:52:05
districts. I'm going to dejerrymander
00:52:08
the United States. I think that is a
00:52:09
great talking point right now.
00:52:11
>> That's another good one. Great. Let's go
00:52:12
on a quick break. When we come back, the
00:52:14
reality star in the LA mayoral race.
00:52:18
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00:53:50
Scott, we're back with more news. This
00:53:51
one. Oh my god. You could have run for
00:53:53
mayor of Los Angeles at this point.
00:53:55
Spencer Pratt, formerly a reality show
00:53:57
of The Hills, an generally awful person,
00:54:00
is unexpectedly emerging as a contender
00:54:02
in the Los Angeles mayor's race. I'm not
00:54:04
so clear he's going to win, but he's got
00:54:05
the mo. Despite his lack of uh political
00:54:08
experience, Pratt has gained traction
00:54:09
through viral social media campaigning
00:54:12
and support from figures like Joe Rogan
00:54:14
and Elon Musk. Of course, Elon Musk.
00:54:16
Pratt has built his campaign around
00:54:18
frustration with the cost of living in
00:54:19
the city's response to wildfires which
00:54:21
destroyed his own home. Um, lot of
00:54:23
reporting by Harvey Levan has shown most
00:54:26
of the stuff he's saying to be nonsense.
00:54:28
Um, thank God for TMZ at this point. Um,
00:54:32
he's signed up uh, of course an
00:54:33
unscripted series following his bid to
00:54:35
be mayor and going into mayor of course
00:54:37
because this is all a scam with Spencer
00:54:39
Pratt and elsewhere in California
00:54:41
politics which seems insane this at this
00:54:44
particular juncture. California
00:54:45
gubernatorial candidate Tom Styer is
00:54:47
under investigation after his campaign
00:54:49
paid influencers to post favorable
00:54:51
content without clearly disclosing it
00:54:52
was sponsored. California law requires
00:54:54
paid political content to include
00:54:56
disclaimers as it should and state
00:54:58
regulators are now looking into whether
00:54:59
those rules were violated. Both
00:55:00
Democratic Republican groups report
00:55:02
spent millions of this type of
00:55:03
endorsement over the past few campaign
00:55:05
cycles. It's very it's propaganda. Um,
00:55:08
so reality stars, influencers, of course
00:55:11
it's California, Spencer [ __ ] Pratt,
00:55:14
like what in the [ __ ] [ __ ] And a lot of
00:55:17
people donate to him, by the way, don't
00:55:18
live in Los Angeles, but that's neither
00:55:21
here nor there. Thoughts?
00:55:23
>> I had a friend call me and ask me to
00:55:25
have him on the raging moderates pod.
00:55:26
And look, a reality TV star. He lost his
00:55:30
house in the Palisades. He's very good
00:55:32
on camera. He understands social media.
00:55:34
Uh, he's got a lot of momentum. He's
00:55:36
running against what I think is a weak
00:55:37
candidate and a frustrated populace. LA
00:55:39
has become a little bit like I would
00:55:41
describe it as Cape Town. There are some
00:55:43
areas of Cape Town I think this is the
00:55:44
nicest place in the world and then if
00:55:46
you venture a few minutes outside of
00:55:48
them it gets really ugly really fast.
00:55:50
>> And the homeless problem, you know, I
00:55:53
think it's fair for people to say, "I'm
00:55:55
paying some of the highest taxes in the
00:55:56
nation.
00:55:57
>> I want I have to walk this way to my
00:56:00
kids to school so they don't see a
00:56:02
homeless man masturbating or [ __ ] in
00:56:04
the streets." that you know you you can
00:56:07
understand the the amount of bureaucracy
00:56:10
trying to deal with the fires. A lot of
00:56:12
people don't like the way the fires.
00:56:13
This is ripe for somebody to challenge
00:56:16
Karen Mayor Bass. Uh where I land on the
00:56:20
following is the following. Spencer
00:56:21
Pratt embraced Alex Jones is said 911
00:56:26
was an inside job and brought up doubt
00:56:28
about Sandy Hook. Go [ __ ] yourself. I I
00:56:31
would vote for anyone over someone who
00:56:34
has embra embracing Alex Jones
00:56:36
disqualifies you to run the what is one
00:56:38
of the great cities in the world. So
00:56:41
this guy is evidence again of revolution
00:56:44
and people so angry and so upset I hope
00:56:48
and it's also evidence of just how hard
00:56:49
it is to find reasonably competent
00:56:52
people to run for office
00:56:54
>> like Rick Caruso was supposed to
00:56:56
challenge her who
00:56:57
>> Rick would have been great. I'm trying
00:56:58
to get my friend Jamie Patrickov to run.
00:57:01
He's nice. He loves LA. He has the
00:57:02
money, which is important. He's
00:57:04
pragmatic. He's a business person. None
00:57:07
of these people want to put their family
00:57:08
or themselves through this [ __ ]
00:57:10
Also, somebody has to come in and take
00:57:12
on many of the special interest groups,
00:57:14
including unions, including entrenched
00:57:15
Democrats. A and it is a a lot of people
00:57:19
will say, people really thought go LA
00:57:22
like California has become nearly
00:57:24
ungovernable. And that is the special
00:57:27
interest groups are so entrenched and so
00:57:28
hard to overcome. There's so much
00:57:30
bureaucracy. It is so hard to find
00:57:31
talented people to try and do this.
00:57:34
Everybody wants theirs and that it's
00:57:36
become a very difficult but Spencer
00:57:38
Pratt.
00:57:38
>> I know it's just amazing that some that
00:57:40
people are backing this guy. This guy
00:57:42
and by the way I I'm not kidding about
00:57:43
Harvey Lean. He actually showed how much
00:57:46
he was living at the Bair Hotel and was
00:57:49
pretending to Anyway, look, there's
00:57:51
frustration over everything. A lot of
00:57:53
the stuff that he's talking about is not
00:57:55
the responsibility of Bass, but there's
00:57:57
anger at Bass about how she handled
00:57:59
that. No question. There's anger and
00:58:01
frustration about homelessness. There's
00:58:02
anger and frustration. But your your
00:58:04
your choice is not to go with Spencer
00:58:06
[ __ ] Pratt, by the way, who's just
00:58:09
one con after another. He really is. He
00:58:12
really is. And lie and con after
00:58:14
another. There's another council member
00:58:15
who's also showing some some a little
00:58:19
bit not momentum but some numbers who
00:58:21
had backed Bass and now is running
00:58:23
against Bass probably should
00:58:25
>> I hate to say this but probably strike
00:58:28
some sort of deal with Bass step down
00:58:29
and she will probably win Bass will
00:58:32
because she's there's no
00:58:33
>> pe no Latinos or black people are voting
00:58:36
for Spencer Brat and it's all outside
00:58:38
money it's all people who have like very
00:58:41
little interest in it but he is
00:58:43
articulating in anger
00:58:44
Even if he's the worst vessel poss
00:58:48
>> that's exactly right and but this guy
00:58:50
makes Trump look like a genius. Like let
00:58:52
me just say this is not even close. It's
00:58:54
it would be such an embarrassment for
00:58:56
this to happen in San Francisco. You get
00:58:58
Daniel Lur, someone who's a really who's
00:59:01
doing a good job. And by the way, I I
00:59:03
still don't think Lennon Breed did the
00:59:04
worst job of all. It just was she had a
00:59:06
lot of stuff that got piled up on top of
00:59:08
her. Um and and and and didn't have the
00:59:11
tools because of different legal things
00:59:13
that got passed later that she couldn't
00:59:15
deal with the homeless issue there, but
00:59:17
now Lur can. Um you you need someone
00:59:20
like Luri, like find someone like that,
00:59:23
like who is going to be like little
00:59:25
maybe a little more centrist than the
00:59:26
left wants, maybe a little uh not as not
00:59:29
as conservative as others want, right?
00:59:32
someone who's going to try to solve
00:59:33
problems and at least make an attempt to
00:59:36
do so and instead this laughable like
00:59:39
con man is the person you're picking and
00:59:41
and full of constant lies. It will be a
00:59:43
disaster for Los Angeles is one of the
00:59:45
most beautiful places on earth and if
00:59:47
they could be now Los Angeles compared
00:59:49
to San Francisco is a quantum level of
00:59:51
difficulty of running. It just is like
00:59:53
let's be clear. Um and uh but this is
00:59:57
not what you want. And I think Bass has
00:59:59
started to acknowledge the problems, is
01:00:01
saying all the right things. It's likely
01:00:03
she'll win. But the momentum for this
01:00:05
[ __ ] clown, especially, let me tell
01:00:07
you, anyone who calls me from Los
01:00:09
Angeles, and several have that say
01:00:12
they're looking at them, we are no
01:00:13
longer friends. Like, sorry. Just sorry.
01:00:16
Like,
01:00:16
>> but the reason they're looking at them,
01:00:17
quite frankly, you're being very
01:00:19
generous to Mayor Bass,
01:00:20
>> right? I am. I am. I I agree. I think
01:00:22
she's I has has not been great, but this
01:00:24
is the choice you have, right? This is
01:00:26
the
01:00:26
>> Fair enough. But there's a couple
01:00:27
takeaways here. Mayor Lurri and
01:00:29
Democrats, especially Democrats in
01:00:32
executive roles, not legislative roles.
01:00:34
There's a difference. Governor and
01:00:36
mayor, it's an executive role.
01:00:37
>> Agree.
01:00:38
>> And what Mayor Luri is doing, and every
01:00:40
Democratic um mayor needs to take a
01:00:42
lesson, a note out of this page book and
01:00:44
governor because if if Democratic
01:00:45
governors and mayors can't figure out a
01:00:47
way to not make their cities come across
01:00:49
as [ __ ] holes, it is going to be very
01:00:51
hard for them to run. They've got to
01:00:53
show they have the ability to say no to
01:00:55
special interest groups and be about
01:00:56
blocking and tackling such that they
01:00:58
focus on quality of life issues. And
01:01:01
what Mayor Lurri has done that is so
01:01:03
impressive is if you ask him about
01:01:05
Israel, if you ask him about Ukraine, if
01:01:07
you ask him even about a national issue,
01:01:10
bodily autonomy that doesn't directly
01:01:12
affect right now San Franciscans who
01:01:14
have access to family planning, he says,
01:01:16
"I'm not going to talk about it. That's
01:01:18
not why I'm here." Every mayor and
01:01:20
governor in the United States thinks
01:01:22
that their mayoral or their governor
01:01:24
governorship is a kickoff campaign for
01:01:26
them to run for president. No. Get the
01:01:29
subways to run on [ __ ] time. Figure
01:01:31
out the way the trash gets picked up.
01:01:33
Figure out a way to strike a deal with
01:01:35
the unions if you're dealing with that
01:01:36
such that they make good livingings, but
01:01:38
it's not they're not making $180,000 a
01:01:41
year for their 40% agree with you in
01:01:43
retirement. Stop talking about national
01:01:46
and international issues. No one gives a
01:01:48
[ __ ] what you think. run this city. And
01:01:51
that is exactly what Mayor Lur is doing.
01:01:53
And he's very popular and he's getting a
01:01:55
lot of support and he's getting [ __ ]
01:01:57
done and he's making hard decisions
01:01:58
around homelessness and around municipal
01:02:01
transportation. The other thing I want
01:02:03
to say that'll be Tommy Star has
01:02:06
basically been accused of astroturfing.
01:02:09
I mean, that's effectively what it is.
01:02:10
You're paying for people who endorse you
01:02:12
who don't disclose their endorsement.
01:02:14
Okay. So is everyone else,
01:02:18
>> right? I get it.
01:02:19
>> When when Manny was running and I said
01:02:22
anything about the mayoral race,
01:02:24
hundreds of comments from bots, you're
01:02:29
going to tell me they somehow weren't
01:02:30
connected to money and his campaign.
01:02:33
>> No, it's a part of modern political
01:02:35
life.
01:02:36
>> And so if Tom Styer does an astroturf,
01:02:38
then good for him and he's going to
01:02:40
lose. This is now the world we live in.
01:02:43
Unless the platforms figure out an
01:02:44
airtight way to get rid of anonymous
01:02:46
accounts and unless they start going
01:02:49
after agencies that claim to be PR and
01:02:51
comm's firms, you are. Let me go
01:02:53
further. You're stupid not to astroturf
01:02:56
back because everyone's doing it to you.
01:02:59
>> It is. It's just that there's got to be
01:03:01
a way to solve this because it's such
01:03:03
like it's so
01:03:04
>> platforms have to do it.
01:03:05
>> No, absolutely. It's so noisy we can't
01:03:07
hear what people are saying. In this
01:03:08
case, it looks like probably Basera
01:03:10
looks like he's surging ahead at this
01:03:12
point. But that whole California race
01:03:14
has been insane. Like all of them have
01:03:17
got to someone needs to knock heads
01:03:18
there, but no one could knock heads
01:03:20
anymore, right? So it's sort of a race
01:03:22
to be an influencer or something or some
01:03:24
version of cheap and dirty. And that's a
01:03:27
real shame. Um it really is. It's, you
01:03:29
know, California is an important state
01:03:30
and should be governed by serious people
01:03:33
both as cities are important cities. Um
01:03:36
they've led the way on innovation.
01:03:38
whether they have troubles now that's a
01:03:39
different issue. I wish there was an
01:03:41
alternative to Bass that was serious and
01:03:43
I you know I get why you'd want to be
01:03:45
behind it but this you're doing this
01:03:47
there's something wrong with you.
01:03:48
There's something real wrong with you
01:03:49
anyway. We'll see what happens. We'll
01:03:51
see. He may just fade just cuz he's such
01:03:53
a seems like such a village idiot. But
01:03:55
we'll see. And if he wins watch out
01:03:57
[ __ ] below
01:03:58
>> I've watched some of his stuff. I'll
01:03:59
give him I think he's actually he's got
01:04:01
some of that Trump charisma. He does.
01:04:03
He's got some of that.
01:04:04
>> That's why he was a successful reality.
01:04:06
>> Anger and outrage tapping in. Again,
01:04:08
this all comes back to the same thing.
01:04:10
People are getting 110 notifications on
01:04:13
their phone that everyone's making bank
01:04:15
and has a hot boyfriend or girlfriend
01:04:18
except them. Everyone feels as if
01:04:20
they're falling behind. And when you're
01:04:23
falling behind and you're angry, chaos
01:04:26
is your preferred candidate.
01:04:28
>> That's correct. You're absolutely right.
01:04:30
Anyway, uh well, we'll see what happens
01:04:33
there. Uh I I'd be interested. Don't
01:04:35
have Spencer Pratt on if you don't mind.
01:04:37
You can, but you have to whack his the
01:04:38
[ __ ] out of him.
01:04:39
>> No. Jess said Jess said if we do that,
01:04:42
we have to have Mayor Bass on. And I'm
01:04:43
like, I don't I'm not going to platform
01:04:45
anyone who said 9/11 is was an inside
01:04:48
job and is and has shared the stage with
01:04:51
Alex Jones.
01:04:52
>> And other than saying my heart goes out
01:04:55
to the victims of Sandy Hook,
01:04:57
>> that's just disqualifying. I I'm doing a
01:05:00
lot of virtue signaling right now, but
01:05:01
those are red lines. Those are okay.
01:05:02
Those are red lines. Those are good
01:05:04
virtues, I would say. They're not virtue
01:05:05
signaling. It's virtues. They're
01:05:07
virtuous. What? Virtuous. Those are good
01:05:09
virtues. Uh there are some good virtues
01:05:11
uh these days. Anyway, one more quick
01:05:12
break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
01:05:15
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01:07:34
Okay, let's do some wins and fails.
01:07:37
Should I go first?
01:07:37
>> You go first.
01:07:38
>> Okay. I'm going to put it as a win and a
01:07:40
fail on both. Now, I love Steven
01:07:42
Colbear, right? I love him. I think he's
01:07:44
really funny. I think he's gonna have an
01:07:46
enormous career after he leaves. Uh I
01:07:48
think they're overdoing it on the
01:07:50
Goodbye Tour. I have to say it the plays
01:07:52
I hate to agree with people, but it's
01:07:53
like
01:07:54
>> it's like a woman's birthday party that
01:07:56
turns into a Jubilee coronation for two
01:07:58
[ __ ] years.
01:07:59
>> Like come on. It's you know already.
01:08:01
>> Like it's it's like and it's also like
01:08:03
it's the five white guys. I was like
01:08:05
this you're not making yourself feel
01:08:08
like I get it. I'm pissed. I'm pissed
01:08:10
myself about
01:08:12
the takeover. I I am too. But I'm not
01:08:15
going to like go on about that said when
01:08:18
they what I did love is when they bring
01:08:20
Letterman back who I love when he's mad.
01:08:22
Like I love a Letterman anger and I
01:08:23
think it's really funny and that was
01:08:25
sort of his brand and sort of dispic
01:08:27
anger and they threw the furniture and
01:08:29
then they threw the melons and they
01:08:30
threw the um the birthday cake off the
01:08:33
roof. I thought that was so funny and
01:08:36
just exactly all I needed. So there that
01:08:39
was my win and fail at the same time.
01:08:41
And when he says, "Good night and good
01:08:42
luck, motherfuckers." That made me laugh
01:08:45
hysterically. Like, do it in humor, but
01:08:48
it's getting like it's getting a little
01:08:50
much. I God, I can't believe Megan Kelly
01:08:53
said a version of this. And I hate to
01:08:55
agree with her, but and I love Steven
01:08:57
Cobear, and I think he's got I think
01:08:59
they're not telling the truth about what
01:09:00
happened here. I do know that these
01:09:02
shows are declining, and this is the way
01:09:04
it goes. They could have done a lot of
01:09:06
other things, but just stick with the
01:09:08
funny and we all know you got [ __ ]
01:09:10
Like, I get it, but just go on and do
01:09:13
great things. That's what I would say. I
01:09:15
just am feeling a little bit like, okay,
01:09:17
boys, you know, there are lots of people
01:09:19
that get [ __ ] So, let's let's let's
01:09:22
do something about it as you say. All
01:09:24
right, your win and fail. People are
01:09:26
gonna be mad at me, but I love Steven
01:09:27
Coar anyway. Well, I have a fail and a
01:09:30
prediction and
01:09:33
okay, so um my fail is Nicholas Kristoff
01:09:38
and what I believe is a breakdown in
01:09:39
standards at the New York Times and his
01:09:42
piece on Palestinian prisoners. I think
01:09:45
it's my fail and not because the subject
01:09:46
isn't serious and not because
01:09:50
it's not it's an important issue. I
01:09:52
believe that our military operations in
01:09:54
Western societies and democracies need
01:09:56
to be held to a higher standard.
01:09:58
And whether it's a second strike on a on
01:10:02
a on a boat, not a Navy vessel, with
01:10:04
survivors and not giving them quarter,
01:10:07
or the abuse of Palestinian prisoners, I
01:10:10
think that the IDF should be held to a
01:10:11
higher standard than any military in the
01:10:14
Middle East. So, it's not that it's it's
01:10:16
not that it's not an important issue,
01:10:18
but there's a line in the piece
01:10:20
suggesting that dogs were trained to
01:10:22
rape prisoners.
01:10:24
That's an extraordinary claim. And
01:10:27
extraordinary claims require a level of
01:10:29
evidence that was not met here. Not
01:10:31
vibes, not hearsay, not someone said. If
01:10:34
you're going to publish something that
01:10:36
incendiary, you need airtight sourcing,
01:10:39
multiple corroborated on there
01:10:41
confirmations or clear documentation.
01:10:43
And as someone who has a background or
01:10:47
experience with Belgian Malininois and
01:10:49
uh has come very close to adopting a
01:10:52
canine dog, the notion that a dog can be
01:10:54
trained to physically rape somebody,
01:10:57
it's just [ __ ] ridiculous.
01:11:00
And I feel that they're not informing
01:11:02
the public. They're injecting a
01:11:03
narrative accelerant into one of the
01:11:05
most volatile conflicts on the planet.
01:11:08
And here's the bigger problem. When
01:11:10
legacy media outlets, especially one
01:11:12
that has the prestige, the reputation,
01:11:15
the talent of the New York Time, runs
01:11:17
with claims like that that aren't
01:11:19
bulletproofed. They're not risking being
01:11:21
wrong. They're they're risking a further
01:11:24
erosion and trust in everything else
01:11:26
that's true. And they hand ammunition to
01:11:29
people who want to dismiss all reporting
01:11:32
as biased or fabricated. And this isn't
01:11:35
I'm trying not to take sides here. I
01:11:37
think this is about standards. War is
01:11:39
where truth goes to die on both sides.
01:11:42
Which means journalism needs to be
01:11:44
really disciplined. And if you lower the
01:11:46
bar because the story aligns with your
01:11:48
priors, you're no longer doing
01:11:50
journalism, you're doing advocacy with a
01:11:52
by line. And I think that these abuses,
01:11:55
the ones that can be proven, get
01:11:57
discounted because the media couldn't
01:11:59
resist the most shocking version of the
01:12:00
story. This reminds me of all those
01:12:02
stories about child soldiers that really
01:12:05
upset people for the right reason. You
01:12:07
take something innocent and talk about
01:12:10
killing, taking dogs and combining it
01:12:12
with rape. I it just I read it and I
01:12:14
thought this is just over the [ __ ]
01:12:16
top for the New York Times.
01:12:18
>> Well, can I just I'm not going to push
01:12:21
back because I think there's a lot of
01:12:22
controversy around the story that it was
01:12:24
in the opinion section that in this case
01:12:27
it probably the New York Times reporters
01:12:29
on the scene should have written
01:12:31
>> a a follow-up story or something to talk
01:12:34
about this. Now, Kristoff is known as an
01:12:38
excellent journalist, has done amazing
01:12:40
work,
01:12:40
>> feels not just that, not just cuz he won
01:12:42
the Post Prize, but like amazing work on
01:12:44
all sorts of abuses across the world,
01:12:46
and he's been accurate as a he's a very
01:12:48
good reporter, too.
01:12:50
>> Um, but this was an opinion section
01:12:52
piece, as you know. Um, and the New York
01:12:54
Times has been very supportive of him,
01:12:56
but I think in this case, this should
01:12:59
have been also reported because of the
01:13:02
nature of it. You've got to have like
01:13:04
extensive reporting on this even if it
01:13:08
because it's so incendiary and I I think
01:13:11
probably I don't know what happened and
01:13:13
they need to talk about it but the New
01:13:14
York Times is backing his reporting. The
01:13:17
question is should they do more
01:13:19
reporting right on and if this was the
01:13:21
same allegations on the Israeli side as
01:13:24
been has been I mean on the Hamas side
01:13:26
um of the same sexual abuses same thing
01:13:29
right like allegations same thing and so
01:13:33
that's what's important here is to do as
01:13:35
I think you double report stuff like
01:13:38
this triple report and quadruple report
01:13:40
it'll be interesting to see how it how
01:13:42
it pans out because the times has been
01:13:45
backing him on this
01:13:47
Um and and he he is citing a lot of UN
01:13:51
stuff. He's citing a lot of reports on
01:13:53
the scene. He's citing a lot of stuff,
01:13:54
but it requires extra extra reporting.
01:13:58
As much as, you know, that may be seem
01:14:00
offensive to some, I I think I do agree
01:14:02
with you here. They've got to really
01:14:04
button it up in a way that
01:14:06
because of the incendiary nature and
01:14:09
where it is at the same time. Even if
01:14:11
you you you have a side and you feel
01:14:13
like you know that war does result in
01:14:16
terrible abuses of the citizenry.
01:14:18
>> Yeah. I'm going to defer to you on
01:14:19
journalistic standards. I just read it
01:14:21
and thought I I have trouble. This seems
01:14:25
so
01:14:28
unbelievable that it required more than
01:14:32
uh more evidence and better reporting
01:14:34
than I I felt was evident in the
01:14:37
article. And that on something that is
01:14:39
so important in terms of how we in the
01:14:42
west and I do consider Israel Israel is
01:14:45
an ally and part of the west the
01:14:46
standards they should be held to are
01:14:48
really important and deserve they
01:14:50
deserve scrutiny. I mean, I get it.
01:14:54
People who when people claim I'm not
01:14:56
anti-Semitic, I'm anti-Israel. I say to
01:14:59
them, you know, I can relate to that
01:15:01
because I don't like Netanyahu, but I
01:15:03
care so much about Israel that I would
01:15:04
like to see Netanyahu voted out of
01:15:06
office because I don't think they have
01:15:07
acquitted themselves well in terms of
01:15:09
many of the ways they have approached
01:15:10
this conflict. I get it. But when you
01:15:14
when you reduce the veracity of your
01:15:17
reporting on this key issue and other
01:15:18
ones by as someone I don't feel like I
01:15:22
have domain expertise around how prisons
01:15:24
are treated. I have some domain
01:15:26
expertise around dogs quite frankly and
01:15:29
I just thought okay I have I can't even
01:15:32
this is unimaginable for me for someone
01:15:34
who has spent a lot of time around
01:15:35
Belgium Malininois
01:15:37
for them to say that and then I'm like
01:15:38
where's the evidence where the pro
01:15:39
where's the proof where's the double the
01:15:41
corroboration the further investigation
01:15:43
and it wasn't there and I thought it
01:15:46
reminded me of when you see those in
01:15:48
just unthinkable
01:15:50
pictures at the end of the war Americans
01:15:52
were really horrified by what they saw
01:15:55
in concentration camps. They were almost
01:15:57
as horrified by the Germans enlisting
01:16:00
14-year-olds and sending them to the
01:16:02
front lines because you took children,
01:16:03
something innocent, and you collided it
01:16:06
with something heinous, killing other
01:16:09
people. And I this this rireed of that
01:16:12
to me. Let's find the most innocent
01:16:13
creatures in the world, dogs, and let's
01:16:16
combine it with rape.
01:16:17
>> Well, let let me just read that for just
01:16:19
for this for people to know. It'll we'll
01:16:21
see where it zeros out, but I'm assuming
01:16:23
there's they're going to do further
01:16:25
reporting would be my guess internally.
01:16:27
Um, and there's a lot of people saying
01:16:29
they're going to they're going to
01:16:30
retract it. I this is Kristoff has said
01:16:32
this is not true. Um, this is the this
01:16:35
was the quote that the New York Times
01:16:36
gave just so we have it. There is no
01:16:38
truth uh to this at all. Nicholas
01:16:40
Krischoff is a two-time Pulitzer
01:16:42
Prizewinning journalist who has reported
01:16:44
on sexual violence for decades and is
01:16:45
widely regarded as one of the best the
01:16:47
world's best on ground reporters
01:16:49
documenting and bearing witness to
01:16:50
sexual abuse experienced by women and
01:16:52
men in war and conflict zones. He
01:16:54
traveled to the region to report
01:16:55
firsthand on the stories of Palestinians
01:16:57
who suffered abuse. And this article
01:16:58
collects accounts of the victim's own
01:17:00
words backed by independent studies. So,
01:17:02
we'll see. This has another chapter
01:17:04
happening because they're getting such
01:17:05
push back and including from Netanyahu.
01:17:08
I I I I I do hate to say like you have
01:17:11
to do extra reporting on certain topics,
01:17:13
but I think there's you have to
01:17:15
anticipate even if um it's Netanyahu or
01:17:18
whoever it happens to be and have
01:17:21
everything locked up tight. I would
01:17:22
agree with you on that. Anyway, we'll
01:17:24
see where it goes. Uh but
01:17:25
>> that was a productive conversation. I
01:17:26
appreciate it.
01:17:27
>> No problem. No problem.
01:17:28
>> So, uh
01:17:29
>> people are going to be mad anyway no
01:17:30
matter what. But
01:17:32
>> there's no talking about this without
01:17:33
everyone going to their corner.
01:17:35
>> Yeah.
01:17:36
>> And and getting very upset. And I
01:17:38
understand that. Um
01:17:39
>> Yeah.
01:17:40
>> Look, my this is I'm not supposed to do
01:17:43
prediction, but I couldn't help it. It
01:17:45
just struck me as fairly obvious. You're
01:17:48
going to see um
01:17:51
uh you're going to see uh an invasion
01:17:55
of some of the islands off the coast of
01:17:59
China. Um well, let me back up.
01:18:03
Basically, um my prediction is Kinman
01:18:06
and Matsu Islands are going to be
01:18:08
invaded in the next 24 months or seized
01:18:11
and you're going to have what the
01:18:12
Chinese
01:18:13
>> Yeah. You'll probably have an economic
01:18:14
blockade. You can't have
01:18:18
I don't think an amphibious assault of
01:18:19
Taiwan is feasible. And I think China
01:18:22
after seeing what's happened in Ukraine
01:18:23
and Iran and the fact there isn't a
01:18:25
single single person in the Chinese
01:18:27
military who has any combat experience,
01:18:30
I don't think they want to get an
01:18:32
amphibious landing in Taiwan is
01:18:34
unthinkable. However, the Straits of
01:18:35
Taiwan are where where 50% of all
01:18:37
shipping goes through.
01:18:39
>> Y
01:18:39
>> I think a soft economic blockade is
01:18:41
coming for the following reasons. A
01:18:43
chill went down my spine when on Air
01:18:45
Force One, Trump was asked if he would
01:18:47
support and defend Taiwan and he said,
01:18:50
uh, I'm not going to let anybody know
01:18:52
that. Oh,
01:18:52
>> he's such an imbecile, such a
01:18:54
>> What is clear to me, and the fact
01:18:56
pattern is just so obvious here, is that
01:18:58
Trump is concerned with one thing, and
01:19:01
that is becoming the wealthiest man in
01:19:02
the world. And I believe he sold out
01:19:06
Taiwan in a private meeting at that
01:19:08
summit. And evidence of that was for the
01:19:11
first time an American president has
01:19:12
said, "Well, I'm not going to say
01:19:13
anything about how I feel about
01:19:17
America's continued support of Taiwan."
01:19:20
And it's not only turning our back on a
01:19:22
democratic ally, but the basic the basic
01:19:25
counterbalance counterbalances amongst
01:19:28
between US Cena relations is the
01:19:30
following. They control 90% of the
01:19:33
processing of rare earth materials. We
01:19:35
control 90% of the most advanced chips
01:19:37
because because of our tight
01:19:40
relationship with Taiwan. If China gets
01:19:44
access to those Taiwanese chips, which
01:19:45
is another reason they wouldn't do an
01:19:47
amphibious invasion because they don't
01:19:48
want to destroy those factories. But if
01:19:50
they use their economic clout to do what
01:19:52
is effectively a soft creeping takeover
01:19:55
of Taiwan and we're not there to support
01:19:57
them, China has won
01:20:00
>> 100%.
01:20:02
It's it's it's the move. It's the move
01:20:04
if you were them.
01:20:05
>> And I think Trump I don't think Trump
01:20:07
gives a [ __ ] about geopolitics, the
01:20:11
decline of US negotiating leverage. I
01:20:15
think he cares about
01:20:16
>> consumers. He doesn't care about
01:20:17
>> I think he cares about one thing. I
01:20:20
think she if I were she, I would have
01:20:21
said the following. You know, you
01:20:24
realize I'm super interested in your
01:20:25
coin and with just a fraction of our
01:20:28
budget, I can use offshore accounts to
01:20:30
take the Trump coin. I think I can get
01:20:33
it worth here's my my ma my math guy
01:20:35
here. I think I can get it worth to be
01:20:39
two 300 billion because price discovery
01:20:41
is at the margins. I think I can take it
01:20:43
there within say 90 days 6 months before
01:20:46
your presidency uh ends and then you'll
01:20:49
have 90 days to uh divest of your
01:20:51
holdings. And by the way, is there any
01:20:54
way you can move out Ohio class
01:20:56
submarines from all the straits of
01:20:58
Taiwan? And by the way, I think economic
01:21:02
reintegration of Taiwan into the great
01:21:04
nation of China would make sense without
01:21:06
any bloodshed. What do you think? I
01:21:08
think that conversation has already
01:21:09
happened and I think evidence of it was
01:21:11
what he said on Air Force One.
01:21:13
>> Yeah, he's a [ __ ]
01:21:14
>> And again, another talking point for a
01:21:16
Democrat. We will back Taiwan
01:21:21
economically and militarily if necessary
01:21:25
because chips are the future. Don't
01:21:27
don't don't get backed into a corner
01:21:29
about threatening another forever war.
01:21:31
Say chips are the future, folks.
01:21:34
>> And Taiwan is an amazing ally of ours.
01:21:36
And the only reason that we have control
01:21:38
over 90% of what is the new oil in an
01:21:40
information economy, and that's chips.
01:21:42
We cannot let Taiwan go to the Chinese.
01:21:45
Make an economic argument, not a
01:21:47
military argument.
01:21:48
>> You know what I would do on top of that?
01:21:49
I would make Jensen Juan move to Taiwan.
01:21:52
See how he feels about that. like with
01:21:54
the Chinese blockade like let's have
01:21:56
some these this selling chips to the
01:21:59
Chinese is such a mistake. It is such an
01:22:01
advantage we have. You 100 I love this
01:22:04
prediction. Scott, you should be mayor
01:22:05
of Los Angeles. That's what we should
01:22:07
run.
01:22:08
>> I'd run out on the In-N-Out on the
01:22:09
In-N-Out ticket. In-N-Out Burger ticket.
01:22:11
>> Yeah, we could run. I I'll be top
01:22:13
adviser and speech right.
01:22:14
>> I like it. I'm in.
01:22:15
>> I'm in. Okay. Anyway, Scott, that is
01:22:17
really smart. That is a really You're
01:22:19
absolutely right. That's exactly how
01:22:20
they're going to do it. and Trump has
01:22:21
sold out a critical critical part of our
01:22:24
uh security. Anyway, and calling David
01:22:27
Sanger, by the way, can I just just last
01:22:29
thing? David Sanger, speaking of great
01:22:31
New York Times reporters, is one of the
01:22:33
top reporters in this area. Calling him
01:22:35
a traitor is is the one of the more
01:22:38
there's so many heinous things Trump
01:22:40
says, but just just absolutely, as I
01:22:43
always say, every accusation is a
01:22:45
confession. He's the traitor. Anyway, uh
01:22:48
we want to hear from you. Send us your
01:22:50
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01:22:51
whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:22:52
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01:22:53
to submit a question for the show or
01:22:54
call 85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show.
01:22:58
Thank you to for listening to Pivot. Be
01:22:59
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01:23:01
YouTube channel. We'll be back on
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