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We've made a lot of predictions. We get some wrong. This was a [ __ ] layup.
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>> It was. >> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Galloway. >> Well, let's get straight to the breaking
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news of the day. Hey, Elon Musk just lost his high stakes lawsuit against Sam Alman and OpenAI, which alleged OpenAI
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had violated a promise to remain a nonprofit after deliberating less than two hours uh which means they didn't get
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the free lunch. A federal uh jury ruled unanimously 9 to zero that Altman and Open Eye did not betray their nonprofit
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founding missions. There was a statute of limitations, technicality, but I think they're basically saying Elon, you
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giant adult toddler, too bad. Um, Scott, we've been saying this all along that
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this would happen. Check it out. I think this jury can't possibly side with him.
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I mean, ultimately, I don't think they proved anything. And it's a sort of he
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said, he said kind of thing. And Elon's the most lo of the pair, right? By far
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by the country mile. So, I think Elon's made a spectacle of himself. If he wins,
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it would be something else. Like, I'll tell you that. Um, but I can't imagine
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the jury thinks this guy got the got a short end of the stick or that he's stupid and didn't know what was
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happening to him. The judge backed the verdict and dismissed all claims, including one against Microsoft. Both
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men are racing towards massive IPOs with OpenAI valued at over $850 billion. And
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SpaceX expected to go public very soon after merging with Musk's XAI, which has
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been pretty much of a failure in the AI department, possibly one of the reasons for this lawsuit. Uh thoughts? Look, as
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predicted, I thought this was an easy one. And I thought this was a messiah complex and
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sellers regret cosplaying a legal argument. The only thing that came out of this entire case was that Musk was
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[ __ ] a board member in that she nor he disclosed it after he had left. >> Well, if if they did it that way, let's
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be we don't know how that happened. There was something. >> Okay. >> All right.
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>> Okay. >> Alleged. You're saying she she would it was immaculate immaculate conception
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>> in there was let's not get into it but they're romantically involved now. Okay,
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got it. >> This was a lawfare. Um, and this was again I I am turning so I think we now need alternative minimum
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taxes of 60 or 70% on anything over a billion dollars for an individual because these individuals
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are under the impression that they are not subject to the standards of of Western society, decency or any or the
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law. The fact that they would even he would even bring this case >> nonsense
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>> uh >> waste of time >> is okay you don't have a legal argument
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but I'm Elon Musk and nonprofits are allowed to convert to forprofits they do it all the time he
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tried to convince them to become a for-profit that he would control and when they said no he left and started
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his own for-profit AI company and then six years later decided to give up all ownership and governance of that now
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that it was worth $850 billion. he wanted some of that or he wanted to at least slow it down for his failing
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>> right >> uh LLM th this was this was we've made a lot of predictions
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we get some wrong this was this was a [ __ ] layup >> it was I have to say one of the things
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that people look look first of all it's a waste of our legal our legal time it's
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a waste of those nine jurors time it was ridiculous how let me tell you all of them came off badly right Sam Alman
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doesn't look Siobhan Zillis, the alleged person, girlfriend thing. Um, no, she is a
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girlfriend, I guess. I don't know. I don't care. Um, but Greg Brockman, the
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only person who came off like an adult is Sacha Nadella, who's the CEO of Microsoft, right? He looks like he did
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the right thing. He handled it well. All his texts are fine. The rest of them look like [ __ ] babies and unhappy and
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just, why are they in charge of our fate? Why are they why are they so unhappy and so rich?
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um all kinds of like weird dramas between them, personal dramas, and it's a waste of our legal systems time. It's
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just rid the judge seemed perplexed as to what it was doing there. Um and again, it does come down to Elon Musk
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and sour grapes. He has the sourest grapes on the planet, even though he's about to become the richest person on
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the planet, right? In the history of the planet. The other thing is that both of
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them are sucking wind while Gemini and Anthropic are lapping them, right? So all this waste of time and energy over
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companies that are pro have problematic real problems, right? In their own in their own thing and it's just the whole
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thing is just I just and I I think the fault lies of course with Elon Musk who just can't like lose. He's he's a sore
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he's a sore winner is what he is. I don't know what else. and he's a bad
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loser essentially. And you know, would do you think it'll affect their IPOs or
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positions in the overall AI race? Because I don't see anyone coming off well except for uh Gemini and Anthropic
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in this deal essentially. >> Well, Gemini and Anthropic win by just virtue of the fact that this is a big
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distraction for a non-competitor XAI and a real competitor, OpenAI. The only nuance I would add to your
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comments is one, there's a small fraction of people, us included, very small, that we're
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tracking the nuance and the details of the case. Generally speaking, the majority of people will will read this
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today and it it it distills down to a very basic thing. Musk lost and Alman won. So I actually think Alman comes out
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of this as a winner. >> That's fair. That's fair >> because the majority of us didn't listen
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to the testimony and just how petty and childish and weird these people are. Uh so it's like they'll they'll remember
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one thing about this. Oh, Musk lost and Alman won. >> You're correct. >> And I don't I don't I think the
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prediction markets I don't know what they were at one point it had Musk at 50%. Which was a great bet
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>> but the thing I looked at was the secondary market and I didn't see shares
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in Open AI decline in value. So I think this I think this gives new not new wind
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but existing wind in the sales of the open AI uh IPO and also I don't think it
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to be fair I don't think it hurts M's IPO because I think people are so intoxicated for real for many good
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reasons by the IPO of SpaceX. This was and the the the most interesting thing I saw in the CNN article that we just
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pulled up was the judge almost appears to be wallpapering over why they didn't
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dismiss it in the first place. Why did they even let this get to trial? Because the judge was saying that she, you know,
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one of the reasons I was thinking of dismissing, you're going to have legal scholars look
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at this and go, "How the [ __ ] did this ever go to trial?" because of a
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technicality because of a statute of limitations. Correct. >> Was that it? Yeah. Well, statute of
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limitations and also there is a certain there is a certain benchmark for what actually proceeds to a jury trial.
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>> Yeah. A nuisance lawsuit. Yeah. >> Yeah. So I look I think this will go
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down um as as I don't want to call it a nothing burger but something that was
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distracting for them that people the TMZ of the tech community loves reading the
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testimony and all that but at the end of the day this this is a this is a speed bump not even a speed bump a bump for
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both firms but the the distillation is the following our court system still works Musk lost Altman won but bigger
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picture neither of their IPOs is threatened by this. >> Yeah. Who the [ __ ] cares is what I
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thought. The whole thing was such a like I do think I agree with you about the nuance. I think you're absolutely right.
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No one will remember that. But boy did I get an insight to what a bunch of [ __ ] babies these people are. Really
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truly out of I thought that and now I'm like unconfirmed and conf like a lot of the stuff like
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that I had heard about Zillis not telling the board about uh the pregnancy the twins and stuff. I I heard that and
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I was like that can't be. And then it was like like like a lot of and Greg Brockman's journal and I know that's
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sort of like we're interested in it or I am at least but it does like really does
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I was like I thought they were babies and indeed in court they were babies. >> Can I tell you about my pregnancy story
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conflict? >> Do you want to bring this back? >> My baby. >> You want to bring you know stranger
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things have happened. >> Okay. So, uh, you got to tell me you want the story first. So,
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>> I want the story. Go ahead. Really briefly, though. Okay. >> That's that's Scott briefly is an
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oxymoron. Um, so I'm a professor. I'm just getting traction at Stern. It's
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like 200 when was it? I should know this. 2007. Finally, I'm finally getting traction as
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a professor. And and my dean calls me and says, "I need you to come up right
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away." And when the dean calls me and says, "Come up right away." right away.
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It's either very good or very bad news. So, I roll up there and he goes, he goes, "Okay, so there's a rumor and he
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goes, there's a second year who looks like she's about to give birth." And I
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mean, she's clearly very, very pregnant, a second year student. Oh, no. >> And there's a rumor that you're the
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father. >> What? >> Yeah. True story. He goes, "There's a rumor that you're the father." And I go,
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"Well, I've got good news and bad news." And he literally put his head in his
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hands and went, "Oh, [ __ ] No. And I said, "The bad news is I am the father." And I said, "The good news is
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we've been having sex for several years." We disclosed in her application
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that we were living together and in a relationship together. >> Thank you.
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>> But we didn't pivot. >> We didn't tell anyone, especially
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students, and I didn't tell any of my colleagues. I just disclosed it when she
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was applying to the school. And uh but yeah, that was that was I was I had knocked up I had knocked up a student
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who was who was walking around. >> Oh no. Oh god. Okay. All right. On that
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note, I had a lovely pregnancy and it was all in a >> open AI. >> Open AI
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>> and then I went and then I went on to do the IPO of Red Envelope and a market cap
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of 108 million. >> Oh god, that ended badly. Okay, it did end. >> By the way, the legal stuff isn't over.
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Moving on to more open AI legal news. The company is reportedly weighing possible legal action against Apple over
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how chat GPT has been integrated into devices and apps that were just waiting for this trial to end. And here we are.
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This deal could open uh that OpenAI thought would bring billions of dollars in subscriptions. Has not turned out
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that way. Openey believes Apple failed to give Chat GBT prominent placement in Siri and iOS and didn't significantly
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promote the integration. Apple has its own concerns about open AI as they should. questions around privacy and the
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company's push into hardware and devices. They did hire Johnny Ibata's company. Another sign of the fring
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relationship, Apple is planning to let users choose between multiple AI models the way they do with search, even though
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they favor Google, including Gemini from Google and Claude from Anthropic across
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its software later this year. Um maybe they'll sell the poll position to one of
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them, but supposedly it was supposed to be OpenAI. What do you think about OpenAI taking on Apple? I don't know
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what the contract is, but it kind of goes to the notion that even one of the most powerful companies in AI, it's all
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about placement and distribution. >> Absolutely. >> Even going as far back as when um I was
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running a strategy firm and we were working for Levis's, they initially decided they needed to go vertical
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because J Penney would put their own um Arizona brand at the front. I mean, distribution just has so much power,
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right? And even someone even something as powerful as Open AI, if you put them at at the bottom, they're not going to
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get as much. But I've I've said for a long time, I thought Apple was going to
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continue to be the arbiter and basically say, unless you pay us a lot of money, we're not putting you at the top,
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especially a company like Open AI. But I don't know what the contract I don't
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know if it's an actual I don't know if it's an actual formal breach of contract
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>> like the Disney Soros one that you had called out as possibly being a nothing
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burger. I I just I wonder, do you really want to piss off the premier means of distribution
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with the kind of access to cheap capital that Open AI has? And Sam Alman's a
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smart man regardless of what you think of them. I I don't see I would be trying
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to figure out a way to cut a deal similar to what Google did where we're going to pay a [ __ ] ton of money and
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we're going to be your default AI. So I don't going after them legally. I don't
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I don't >> Maybe Apple doesn't want them to be default AI. Maybe Apple does have
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concerns. I don't know anything about this. Do you know anything about the legal veracity of the case? I just
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>> I don't know. I mean, they obviously the deal doesn't like these they they struck
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all these very high-profile deals whether it was Disney which became a nothing burger. It was an experiment and
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didn't really go anywhere. They, you know, they did a lot of like ta kind of
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things and this is the biggest one of them. Um, and then they turned around and did the Johnny IV thing, right,
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which has got to chap Tim Cook's ass like on some level, right? Even though he's going to be stepping down. And at
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the same time, they would have questions about what they want to do. Now, of course, Apple is a pay-to-play kind of
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company too by giving Google probably Google maps are very good. Theirs were very good. There were other players.
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They didn't give search to they gave search to Google because they paid them
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much. So, they they are they will take your money and Google certainly has issues around all manner of issues. So,
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they didn't they sort of overlook those. Um, so I don't know. I just I feel like
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they'll be I I think letting people choose between the multiple models is the best way to go. I don't love this
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place paytoplay kind of stuff cuz it doesn't it may give you a good version but it doesn't give you necessarily the
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one you want. So it seems to me that people should be able to choose their AI model since Apple's not going to be
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deploying that themselves. Um you know if you want to use Claude you should be able to use Claude and whoever and may
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the best man win kind of thing. But that's hard to do because people don't
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really choose, do they? They just default use Google Maps or Google Search. >> Well, you can make being your default if
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you want. I I think they I think they I don't think they >> I think they
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>> they play they play on the the inertia of consumers and that is that's right.
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They essentially basically my understanding is with Google search being the default on iOS, they make it
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easier for you to use Google search than use Bing. >> Oh, it comes with it. You have to go
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deep into the thing to change it like to any of them just it's like six it's like
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a lot of steps. I mean this is the same across all of big tech. Amazon if you want to be in the golden buy box you
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know if you want to be top of search results you have to pay and the way they extract payment is that you have to use
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Amazon media group you have to use their fulfillment and then the algorithm slowly but surely puts you towards the
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top or depp prioritizes you and it's like it's like having a store on Mars
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just because you're on Amazon unless you figure out a way to do pay for play. I
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I' I've said for a long time, I think eventually it'll move from these
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companies getting paid by Apple to Apple, extracting a lot of payments from them.
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>> Right. Right. >> What I I think with Open AI though, they're now
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>> Well, Google pays Apple for those things, right? They do get paid. >> I thought Apple paid Google a billion
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dollars to be the engine behind. >> It's the opposite. It's the opposite.
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Oh, >> okay. So, they already >> cases. Yes. Yes. They're used to that
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model of let's we'll pick the winners and then get paid paid for it. >> I thought Apple paid Google a billion
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dollars a year for access to a custom Gemini model. >> Sounds like they they I'm talking about
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search and maps. They they get paid. So Google pays Apple to be the default search, but yes, Apple is paying Google
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around a billion dollars for Gemini. They did this deal with Open AI, right? To to get make them the favored nation.
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At the time they did it. We thought that was pretty smart of opening had to move
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in there on Gemini and at the time Claude was not that big a player right so it was sort of a move on Gemini and
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so um and here it didn't work out and I bet Apple has all kinds of problems with
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their privacy issues and the sort of image around Sam everything else you know what I mean like that's what it
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feels like to me it's like it's a regretful link or something and maybe they aren't doing what it takes but a
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lawsuit is not Great for open AI I assume correct or not doesn't matter for Apple. Well, it the fear is among
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amongst open AI is this hands Google's Gemini the keys of the Apple universe
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and that's the same keys they've possessed with search for two decades right and Apple roots hysteria queries
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through its private cloud compute framework claiming user data is never stored or used to train Google's models
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and Apple evaluated or claims they evaluated open AI and anthropic before choosing Google I got to think there's
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20 billion reasons why Apple wants to maintain a good relationship with Alphabet Also, that could be a court
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case in a future Democratic administration, too, right? Like they're not they've already been in trouble for
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those deals. That's been always been part of the thing. >> Well, that $20 billion accounts for
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about 20% of Apple's annual services revenue. So, it's real. I mean, that is
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real. That's a that's a very that strikes me as the the perfect relationship that [ __ ] consumers.
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>> Yes. Exactly. They they will get paid. Apple will be the get the payee here.
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They're not going to pay Google. >> Oh, no. No. They control the distribution. They control the
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interface. They control custody of the consumer. And it's the age-old argument
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of who's more important, the distribution or the manufacturer's brand. And there's there's always an
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argument. And that and then the companies that get really really uh uh have extraordinary shareholder value,
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always either reverse engineer into creating their own brands and controlling and taking advantage. They
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everyone goes vertical at some point or they forward integrate and start opening, you know, original Levi stores.
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they start opening their own stores. But in the case of Apple, they've done a
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great job of deciding what they're going to go vertical on and what they should
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just extract a lump of flesh for. And I would, again, I've said this before, I
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think Apple's smart move, and as far as I can tell, their strategy is to um decide that around AI, they're going to
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be the toll booth and let whoever the highest bidder is be the default AI. >> Yeah, it'll be questionable if they, as
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we talked about last week about whether they do this with Siri, right? Because Siri just sucks. Are they going to make
00:18:50
Siri better or use someone else's? Siri has never been intuitive. I I spend more
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time arguing with Siri than anything else. What I say >> I think Oculus and Siri are arguably
00:19:03
arguably two of the worst brands in tech over the last 10 years. I think they become total cliches for [ __ ] that
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doesn't work or that doesn't live up to its its potential >> because a lot of the AI interface is
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going to be talking, right? Like, hey, like like you're on the like you're in
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Iron Man. >> So, who does that? >> Scarlett Johansson, it'll be her, right?
00:19:24
>> Yeah. Right. But who does who is that company? Are they going to is Apple
00:19:28
going to default that or is that going to be their thing? because they they they I I I wish someone would do like a
00:19:34
really deep dive into what happened with Siri, why it's so bad, and why it is
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under resourced or I don't really I don't even know, but it seems to me like
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that's going to be the real interface is the voice. But maybe not. I don't know.
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>> No, I think you're right. I think what I I think where it's shaping up and one of
00:19:51
the big the under appreciated or insights is that from a sensory perception I think
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AI is going to be more about your ear canal than your cornea or your eyes and that is truly seamless AI will be a
00:20:06
function and again the Apple will control the distribution with their AirPods. What you're saying is what will
00:20:12
the branded voice be or will it be branded? I guess you'll have to say hey something to prompt it. Is it part of
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who runs it? Who's the back? Anyway, I I feel like there's a huge opportunity
00:20:22
here for one of these AI companies because that's what you know as if anyone who's done a a chatbot like this,
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it's really it's the it's the way to communicate. It's much faster. You don't
00:20:33
have to type things in. It's much better. Anyway, speaking of we may not get there because as these companies
00:20:38
fight, Americans are pushing back on data centers powering all of it. Uh all especially the AI. According to new
00:20:44
Gallup polling, seven in 10 Americans oppose constructing data centers in their local area. That's well no Trump
00:20:51
just had new polling. It's he's down even further. But they don't like Trump.
00:20:55
They don't like data centers. The opposition cuts across every major demographic and political group.
00:21:00
Although Democrats are significantly more likely than Republicans to strongly oppose these data centers, but
00:21:04
Republicans don't like them either. Like let's be clear, it's pretty interesting
00:21:08
that it's it's something that's quite bipartisan. Um, you know, a lot of
00:21:13
people think this is going to be the biggest. I do too when you hear from people, especially as Elon like runs
00:21:18
rough shot over the Tennessee town with his methane engines or whatever. Um, with these Colossus, it just creates
00:21:27
this feeling of of I don't know what it is. It's like these rich [ __ ] are
00:21:32
[ __ ] with our environment now, right? And not to our benefit essentially. But your thoughts on this? I think it's the
00:21:39
same reason that all these commencement speakers got booed uh when they mentioned AI.
00:21:44
>> That was I mean first off no one is using AI more than college students and
00:21:52
there's also some evidence that it's not the demand on the electricity or the
00:21:56
environmental concerns that I mean some people will argue quite frankly that has
00:22:01
been exaggerated. I would like to see the scientific evidence on that but there's just no getting around it. But
00:22:07
what this represents is the following. Whether you're booing Eric Schmidt or or
00:22:12
rallying against a data center, Americans see their prices going up and they're not participating in the wealth
00:22:21
creation of AI and it's just a proxy for income inequality that okay, I hear
00:22:26
about, you know, Anthropic is worth a trillion dollars. San Francisco real estate
00:22:32
prices are booming, jet sales are booming. There are 28-year-olds who are lucky enough to get a job in coding at
00:22:40
OpenAI who are selling 710 $15 million in stock and I can't afford detergent. I
00:22:47
I can't I'm worried about food costs. And so when I hear a data center is
00:22:52
going up 40 miles from me in Utah, I show up to the protest. whether or not I see direct evidence of it hurting me or
00:22:59
not, this is a way of saying AI has become indicative of income inequality and and so when anyone anyone shows up
00:23:09
at a commencement speech and starts lecturing them on AI or they hear about a data center, I think this is
00:23:15
essentially a vessel of people just uh filling it and there I don't want to I
00:23:19
don't want to diminish their concerns. I think there are some real questions that
00:23:22
need to be answered around these d these data centers. But I feel mostly this is
00:23:28
a vessel for people's rage around it seems like everyone is doing well except
00:23:33
for me and that America's giant bet on AI is paying off for a small group of
00:23:38
people and I'm not part of that group. >> Why why not the companies themselves and
00:23:42
why these because I guess data centers are physical, right? They're here, they're there, they see
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>> gives you somewhere to go protest. >> It's also dystopian, right? They're feel
00:23:50
dystopian. They feel like they're probably not going to have a lot of people running them. It's not going to
00:23:55
provide the jobs. They're going around local governments to try to like pay off
00:24:00
people to put them in in the way others. There are worries about the energy costs
00:24:06
that'll go up in these areas. There's like some real things. And then there's
00:24:10
the pollution aspect. And I think Elon's as usual been like the the poster child
00:24:15
for abuse of poor people, right? These are usually in poor areas. Also, I think it's just even beyond the worries about
00:24:21
things. It's more of a a creeping worry about what tech is. Again, the more villainous they they we don't assume the
00:24:30
best of these people ever, nor should we. That kind of thing. >> Well, the one being planned in Utah
00:24:35
that's sort of been the lightning rod or kind of embodies this one. They have the
00:24:39
wrong spokesperson. Kevin Olri is seen as someone who's not that empathetic.
00:24:43
>> Oh god. an old white guy who just doesn't he does not appeal to this this
00:24:48
cohort. It's going to be two and a half times the envisioned data center is going to be two and a half times the
00:24:54
size of Manhattan. Um they have not figured out a way to communicate the economic benefits and
00:25:00
you're right this notion that you could turn the lights off on these things during the day because there's so few
00:25:05
people working there. The bigger threat in my view and of course we're not talking about this but if you look at
00:25:11
history when we have spent more than 3% of GDP on any infrastructure buildout whether it's the railroads where I think
00:25:17
we got up to 10% we did two big buildouts whether it's the electrification and the highways
00:25:23
remember the telco infrastructure buildout of the late '9s >> sure >> whenever we do that and go over above 3%
00:25:29
in 3 years there's a crash because and what might make this crash especially
00:25:33
severe is that railroads need upgrading every 50 years, telco every 20 years, a data center is basically obsolete in
00:25:41
four or five years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So I think there I think obviously you
00:25:46
need to look at the environmental concerns, you need to look at energy costs, but I would imagine there's so
00:25:51
much money on the line here that these companies and these city councils would be able to come to some sort of
00:25:56
accommodation around how do we ensure the local populace does not see its electricity costs just go through the
00:26:02
roof. One would imagine and I know the Trump administration has been trying to do. I
00:26:06
think the hiring of Dena Powell was the reason for that is she's very as president of Meta. I think that's
00:26:12
probably going to be a lot of her jobs these data centers worldwide. By the way, it's also in the Middle East. It's
00:26:16
also because they want to have big data centers there and they have much more control over their populace. Um but I do
00:26:22
think it's sort of the last play of these governments not to put up with this. I you know it's a really
00:26:28
interesting dynamic of people who are sort of years ago uh one of the Joe Kennedy Jr. I think I've said this came
00:26:36
I had I went to his office and he was talking about Amazon putting in a warehouse into his district and he goes
00:26:42
well what this is probably good for people. I said oh no it's it's not good
00:26:45
it's not going to be good for people. They're here to help themselves. I think
00:26:49
people at their very core understand as you were saying that this is not for them. This is for others to to benefit
00:26:56
and it's not to help them in any way. So why should we give up environmental
00:27:02
stuff or more energy prices more than environmental? Anyway, >> again, I think I think the the the curb
00:27:10
or the retail story or the cover story is we're worried about environmental and
00:27:14
demands on the grid. I think what's really going on here is this is just rage at income inequality and
00:27:21
>> big tech and the data center is the manifestation >> and can see it
00:27:25
>> that we can see it and protest against it. I I I think this is I think we're
00:27:30
whenever we get to these levels of income inequality we have war, famine or revolution. I would argue we have all
00:27:35
three of those but revolution always takes on a different complexion. I think what we have now is a series of small
00:27:40
revolutions and they're going after people they generally speaking big tech,
00:27:46
old people, white people, rich people. >> Okay. Tell me tell me you're involved in a
00:27:54
data center without telling me you're involved in >> I know Kevin earlier shows up with his
00:27:57
multi-million dollar. >> He's literally the worst spokesperson in the world for this show.
00:28:01
>> Did you see that outfit he was wearing? I was like, "Oh my god, you literally
00:28:05
look like the guy, you know, the Monopoly man. That's what he looks like, the Monopoly man." Like, it just is not
00:28:11
I I I'm not a fan of of Mr. >> Yeah. It's only a matter of days before
00:28:15
you see AOC and Bernie Sanders at these sites whipping people up into a friend. It'll be like
00:28:20
>> It'll be like the modern day equivalent when Bob Barker used to go to animal
00:28:23
shelters and just go crazy and >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll see where it goes. Now,
00:28:28
speaking of this, which I think is getting people furious, too, and I do think this is the new financial
00:28:33
disclosures show Trump or his investment advisors made more than 3,700 stock trades in the first quarter of 2026
00:28:39
involving hundreds of millions of dollars. The filings show major buys in companies like Nvidia, Boeing, Intel,
00:28:45
Microsoft, and Oracle, many of which are directly affected by Trump administration uh policy decisions, as
00:28:50
the FCC chairperson Anna Gomez calls billionaire buddy deals. Um, in the case of Palanteer, Trump made at least seven
00:28:57
purchases of the stock totaling as much as $530,000 in March, then just happened
00:29:02
to praise the company on Truth Social after shares suffered their worst week in a year the following month. I mean,
00:29:08
uh, what what does it actually take to have consequences here? And does it all end
00:29:14
up with Trump or is he permanently changed what Americans will tolerate from presidents? cuz this is like
00:29:18
there's a great I literally feel like he's going to start taking milk money
00:29:22
from kids like at some point if you remember that that expression. I just this is like is there anywhere he
00:29:28
doesn't cheat and advantage himself in a way that's like really obvious grift
00:29:35
like obvious and really kind of upsetting grift. >> I think you asked exactly the correct
00:29:40
question and that is what can be done about it. I'm just I'm I want to move
00:29:44
past the Democrats indignation and constantly bitching about it, but no real ideas on how to stop it. And so,
00:29:52
let's set the table here to your point about a level of griff that is just absolutely unprecedented.
00:29:57
>> He has um executed more than 3,700 trades in the first quarter of 2026.
00:30:03
He's doing 40 trades a day, by the way, throughout his life. It's not like he's
00:30:07
someone addicted to trading on Robin Hood. And this is just him, you know, Trump being Trumpy. He usually didn't
00:30:14
make this many trades in a year. And all of a sudden, he has access to influence
00:30:18
around these companies and he's decided to start trading stocks. Trump bought
00:30:22
500,000 to a million dollars in Nvidia stock one week before his commerce department approved Nvidia chip sales to
00:30:28
China. He bought somewhere between 1 and5 million the week before they announced a major deal with Meta. He's
00:30:35
he he bought Dell stock before he started carving up Tik Tok and giving it to wait for it Michael Dell. The same
00:30:42
with Oracle. And we have unfortunately relied on a series of norms that has resulted in every president since LBJ
00:30:50
using a blind trust. Obama did index funds and treasury bills. Everyone else has put their stuff into a blind trust.
00:30:57
He claims his trust is blind dish because his sons operate it who are the same people roaming around extracting a
00:31:03
pound of flesh >> and on the trips to China just here to support dad. Give me a [ __ ] break.
00:31:09
>> So insider trading or the veil or the appearance of insider trading has
00:31:13
essentially defined Trump's second term. Just before liberation day, more than a
00:31:19
dozen government officials made welltimed stock sales. What a what a coincidence.
00:31:24
So his his memecoin hit a $27 billion market cap inauguration week with 58 anonymous wallets making over a billion
00:31:32
dollars dumping it while 800,000 retail investors lost 2 billion combined. 15 minutes before Trump announced Iran
00:31:39
peace stocks 500 million in oil futures and one and a half billion in S&P futures traded hands.
00:31:44
>> Cali trading who knows he's doing that. All let's be clear. There appears to be
00:31:48
an unprecedented pattern of information that seems to be only available from Trump or people surrounding him engaging
00:31:55
in what feels like either market manipulation or what could classically be defined as insider trading. And the
00:32:01
damage there is it's not only a conflict of interest and skewing their decisions,
00:32:06
it creates a lack of trust in the markets where people think if I don't have insider information, I shouldn't
00:32:11
buy stocks because the person buying or selling stock has more information than me. And you start to see Russia which
00:32:16
has uh a total stock market value of what our stock market trades about every seven seconds and you lose access to
00:32:23
cheap capital and your whole economy starts to decline because companies can't can't find uh pools of capital
00:32:29
that are formed based on a certain rule of law and fair play. The question is okay great now what do we do about it?
00:32:35
And this is where I think the Democrats again have fallen short and that is we're long on indignation but we're
00:32:41
short on ideas. And I believe that someone running for president should say one of my first acts is I'm going to
00:32:48
work with the following states AGs. I think there's been insider trading. I think they'll have to discourage at a
00:32:54
minimum their profits, including Democrats. Including Democrats who've engaged in insider trading. I think
00:33:00
there has been wire fraud. I think there has been effectively what announced defense concerns or violations of the
00:33:07
imalments clause. I'm going to go after cabinet members. I'm going to go after
00:33:10
their sons through the letter of the law. And the key here is I'm going to do
00:33:15
it with the following state ages such that this legal action is not exempted or protected by a presidential pardon.
00:33:23
>> Right. >> But somebody needs to lay this [ __ ] out. >> Right. Right.
00:33:28
>> I mean, >> yeah. Well, Rahm Emanuel has. Others have. Some several have. Let me be
00:33:33
>> Well, Ram Rahm is the only one. >> He just laid it out in a piece. Ram is
00:33:37
the only one who's actually moved to the ideas part of if I worry we are going to
00:33:43
be in for a rude awakening if we think we're going to win just based on indignance and hating Trump. It's got to
00:33:50
be all right. What are you going to do about it? And the way you get legitimacy here is one by saying any Democrat
00:33:57
that's engaged in this [ __ ] which they have we're going after as well. And
00:34:01
also, don't think a presidential pardon is going to get you out of this, folks,
00:34:05
because this comes down to incentives. And until these believe people believe they could be subject to something on
00:34:10
January 21st of 2028 or excuse me, 2029, they're going to continue to engage in
00:34:15
it, >> right? Because these are easily, you know, these cases are much easier to
00:34:19
win, by the way, in terms >> digital proof everywhere. >> That's right. I I I have told you this
00:34:23
but there is a group of people technologists who are saving crypto things for later like so later when it
00:34:30
happens like when it when you can do something like this they'll be >> they have prints on the trades. Yes,
00:34:35
they have been watching it. They've been collecting it and they're holding it.
00:34:38
And so there are there's an ability to track this stuff, folks. And you're
00:34:41
absolutely right. This is this grift has got to be they're not going to Some of
00:34:46
them are going to Look, Trump probably is going to walk away. Let's be clear.
00:34:49
Unfortunately, getting our hands on him is going to be pointless, angerfilled. >> Let biology take care of
00:34:56
>> Let it let him He's old. Like he is not going to be gotten. the sons of these
00:35:01
people and the Lutniks of the world. All these people, it feels so dirty like what's happening with Witoff and the all
00:35:09
these kids are like swanning around. I can tell you they're swanning around Washington and there is Dumb and Dumber
00:35:16
doesn't even begin to describe them and they are just they're just they're just
00:35:20
on the make and it's grotesque. It's just grotesque what's going on here. And
00:35:24
let me tell you the people who are mad about data centers, they're also taking
00:35:27
advantage you everywhere else. And so [ __ ] you is their [ __ ] how to [ __ ] you
00:35:32
is their is their operating principle. And if they can do it in a shortcut way without working at it, that's their
00:35:38
favorite way. And so I agree with you there. This is what any any democratic person wants to come and talk to us, we
00:35:45
will give you a speech for you to do this. Um anyway, we have to go on a on a quick break. Uh when we come back, Elon
00:35:51
Musk's plan to make sure no one can fire him from SpaceX, another monarchy. Support for this show comes from Delete
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00:37:05
code pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. SpaceX is expected to file for its IPO this
00:37:11
week, which will be interesting. I'm excited for you to read it and tell me all about it. at a valuation of roughly
00:37:16
$2 trillion, aiming to go public June 12th on NASDAQ. We're also learning about more about the governance
00:37:22
structure. No surprise, CEO Elon Musk would control a super majority of class B stock with 10 times the voting power
00:37:28
of ordinary shares. This is not uncommon. Google and other companies have this um meta things like or version
00:37:35
of this. The prospectus says Elon can only be removed by class B shareholders and he will control the election and
00:37:41
removal of directors as long as he holds his stake. Investors are warned this will limit or preclude your ability to
00:37:47
influence corporate uh matters. It's already in place right now, by the way,
00:37:52
but come on. Of course, he's going to do this. And there's another yet another
00:37:56
incentive for Elon. If SpaceX reaches a $7.5 trillion valuation, and it establishes a 1 million person colony on
00:38:04
Mars, he could receive up to 200 million in shares. Let's talk about this board
00:38:10
membership. Uh Scott, because you you've been an investor, you've been a board
00:38:13
member. Elon defended on ex writing, "I need to make sure SpaceX stays focused
00:38:17
on making life multilanetarian, extending consciousness to the stars, not pandering to someone's [ __ ]
00:38:23
quarterly earnings bonus." In other words, he doesn't want to have a public
00:38:26
company, but he wants the benefits of a public company. Um, only thing I will say here, he truly does believe in this
00:38:32
multilanetary extending consciousness. It's not, this is not marketing on his
00:38:37
behalf. He has a demented loony idea that humanity will die and he should be the god of Mars. So, and speaking of
00:38:45
war, um, but your thoughts on this entire thing besides monarchy and god-like feelings that he has?
00:38:52
>> Well, just a brief history of dual class shareholder companies. They were
00:38:55
originally invented by media companies who claimed they wanted to pursue journalism without the vagaries.
00:39:00
>> New York Times. >> Well, yeah, a bunch of them actually. Almost a lot of them said, and there's
00:39:05
some legitimacy there. These families said, "We don't want someone who hates
00:39:09
us to show up and start dictating editorial control. So, we want to maintain control. Whether you believe
00:39:15
that or not, fine." But then the first tech company to do that was uh the Google guys. They said, "We want two
00:39:22
classes of shares." And what's interesting is in the late '9s there was
00:39:28
a rumor that Seoia was trying to sell its shares in a private uh Google because the they they clashed they
00:39:37
really clashed with Sergey and Larry who demanded two class of shares and that was so unusual and Sequoa's thought was
00:39:44
you're not going to be able to get public. You're not a newspaper company.
00:39:47
you're not a journalism company or a tech company. And basically Google then
00:39:52
everybody else has followed in Google's footsteps. Now to be fair to Musk, uh,
00:39:57
you know, when I went on the board of the New York Times and was the largest shareholder,
00:40:01
I all I really was was heckling from the cheap seats and effectively an advisory
00:40:05
board. So while you get some sort of representation, you really don't have at
00:40:11
the end of the day, the family decides what they're going to do over Thanksgiving dinner. The Ford family is
00:40:15
the same way. They own very few shares but they control the company and tech has figured this out. So this is this is
00:40:21
nothing nothing new and to be fair most of the academic studies have shown that dual class shareholder companies have
00:40:27
not vastly underperformed single share companies. >> Yeah I don't think that's the issue.
00:40:31
It's they can't be fired. >> Oh he's in charge. And not only that but
00:40:35
I mean this is where the [ __ ] will get crazy and I can't wait to read the S1.
00:40:39
you know, Adam Newman wanted his kids to inherit the company, you know, and Musk
00:40:44
is saying, so but look, you the reality is shareholders have a choice around whether they want to buy shares. And
00:40:52
what you do with a tool class shareholder company is one, eventually you get a bad king, and two, you take
00:40:57
out a premium of of a possible takeover. And that is Warner Brothers Discovery. When AT&T spun Warner Brothers, they
00:41:05
demanded a single class share stock such that the company could be put into play.
00:41:10
And whenever a company is a single share uh class share company, it usually trades theoretically at a bit of a
00:41:16
premium because someone could come in and buy it. So this is this is just you have to decide whether you believe in
00:41:24
Musk and to be also just the market says not people are not only willing to put up a dual class shareholder company
00:41:30
they're willing to buy at what are errant abnormal extraordinary valuations because of Musk's involvement but this
00:41:39
is these super voting shares started with media companies or newspaper companies then leaked into tech and now
00:41:45
almost everyone is doing it when they go public Right. I I that that I don't
00:41:50
fault him on. Like, of course. And he, by the way, he's been running Tesla like
00:41:53
that anyway without having this kind of thing, right? It doesn't matter. The the
00:41:58
board has has has has whatever he wants. It's like it's a completely bought and paid for board
00:42:05
essentially. And so, he gets that shares and he always threatens to leave and he
00:42:09
throws a fit and it just didn't work at Open AI. That's what happened there.
00:42:13
They're like, "Yeah, we'll be fine without you." And they were um for a
00:42:16
time. Uh, so I think this is not an unusual thing and you do have to realize he's not going to he is a key man here.
00:42:24
It's just like one bad night in Austin and you know that's the problem with all
00:42:28
this stuff or he loses interest like he's done at Tesla. Now the shares have
00:42:32
stayed up because it's a meme stock but the company's not headed in the right.
00:42:36
He's just lost interest in it and is you know that's the problem you have here is
00:42:41
these single monarchies. Uh same thing with with with Zuckerberg. He happens to be vibrant right now, but boy has he
00:42:48
made a series of idiotic move that would have gotten other people fired and he won't be fired. And it it is part of a
00:42:55
mentality of I am the king, I am the god and that that you have got to buy into but it has enormous risk because it's
00:43:03
all based predicated on one person and sometimes that's good but sometimes that's not so good. Like I just feel
00:43:11
like that buyer beware essentially you could do well. I think that Musk I I think there's no way to build a company
00:43:17
like SpaceX or Tesla without having a ton of good people around him. The reason why the Messiah complex comes
00:43:25
into effect in that is no one is allowed to get near. >> I'm pretty sure the fastest way to get
00:43:30
fired at Tesla or SpaceX is to ever say anything at a mic. Only Elon is allowed to talk. This is all about Elon. He's
00:43:39
the genius. >> We don't There is no Ruth Pat, you know. There is no Tim Armstrong. There is no
00:43:46
correct. There's no one else anyone's allowed. You're locked in. >> Can I say something? Can I just
00:43:51
interject? When I wanted to interview Gwen Shotwell years and years ago at one of my code conferences, they said only
00:43:56
Elon will speak to you. Like I was like, what are you talking about? She's obviously doing an amazing job. Like I
00:44:02
really wanted to >> all about Elon. >> Only Elon. And I was like I remember at
00:44:08
the time being like well that's [ __ ] up because she deserves like I want to
00:44:12
hear from her anyway. But but what I would suggest investors do when the S1 comes out and I'm going to spend some
00:44:17
time on this is not focus on the dual class shareholder structure but simple uh basic boring stuff uh or the boring
00:44:24
knitting of valuation and that is the following. At some point an amazing company is a shitty investment if it
00:44:30
gets too expensive and at some point a shitty company is an amazing investment if it gets cheap enough. And let's just
00:44:34
talk about valuation here. Google IPOed trading at about 10 times trailing revenue and it was growing revenues 240%
00:44:43
before the IPO. So 10 times revenue growing 240% a year. Meta IPOed at 28 times trailing revenue growing revenues
00:44:52
at 88% a year before the IPO. Saudi Aramco five times trailing revenue growing revenues 41% a year. SpaceX will
00:45:00
IPO at 109 times trailing revenue, growing revenues at 20% a year. >> Ouch.
00:45:08
>> So, and to be clear, space is the ultimate addressable market. They have
00:45:13
most the size of the Amazon, but it's going out at 10 times the valuation on a
00:45:20
multiple basis as Google did with a tenth of the growth. And then if you just want to look at valuations, Amazon
00:45:27
went public at 900 million. Microsoft at 2.3 billion, Apple at 7 billion, and Google at 40 billion, and what SpaceX is
00:45:36
targeting two trillion. So, all I have to say is, is is SpaceX an amazing company or is it massively overvalued?
00:45:47
The answer is yes. >> Yes. Yeah. Well, we'll see. And you could still do well. Okay, moving on
00:45:51
very quickly. Louisiana Senator Bill Cassie lost his Republican primary after President Trump targeted him in
00:45:56
retaliation for voting to convict him in his impeachment trial 5 years ago. Trump
00:46:01
backed Representative Julia Lelo uh who finished ahead with about 45% of the vote on true social. Trump celebrated
00:46:08
the loss saying that Cassid's disloyalty to the man who got him elected is now
00:46:12
part of legend and it's nice to see that his political career is over. Cassidy
00:46:16
took a swipe at Trump during his concession speech. Just listen to a clip. When you participate in democracy,
00:46:22
sometimes it doesn't turn out the way you want it to. But you don't pout. You
00:46:27
don't whine. You don't claim the election was stolen. You don't find a
00:46:31
reason why. You don't manufacture some excuse. You thank the voters for the privilege of
00:46:43
representing the state or the country for as long as you've had that privilege. So interestingly also just
00:46:49
for a related story, Supreme Court blocked an effort to revive Democratic backed Virginia congressional map that
00:46:54
could have flipped several GOP house seats. The map uh had been approved by voters but struck down by Virginia
00:46:59
Supreme Court and Supreme Court did not give a reason for denying the emergency appeal in the order. They usually don't
00:47:04
meddle with Supreme Courts really is what I'm told. Um so there's some worry
00:47:08
that Democrats should worry about the political environment. Others feel no that it's not the case that it was it
00:47:14
was a good thing to have but not a mustave. I mean, this Cassie thing is interesting because suddenly, again,
00:47:19
like Tom Tillis, he's found his balls and he does have until January to do something about it. He's the one that
00:47:24
backed RFK and even though he knew better, he did a lot. He voted yes for Pete Hegathth. Shouldn't have done it,
00:47:30
now can be regretful of it. I know Tillis took a really big slap at Hegathth this week. These two could make
00:47:37
trouble for Trump until January. Quite a bit of trouble. Um, but you know, as Tillis did with the with um around the
00:47:45
uh Fed chairman uh vote. Uh so what do you think about this? I mean, democracy is democracy and Trump has power in
00:47:52
these states. So thoughts about both things? >> I'm torn because I understand I'm
00:47:57
sympathetic to the notion that you can't do good if you don't get elected. And
00:48:02
this is no longer the Republican party. It's MAGA. It puts these people in a
00:48:05
very difficult position. I also think there's some legitimacy to the argument
00:48:09
that Bill Cassidy should lose his medical license because to >> oh >> to be well he was the swing vote
00:48:15
>> I know that I got >> believe it >> they got RFK I mean I've said this before no one is
00:48:22
doing more damage abroad than Secretary Hagsath no one is doing more damage to children domestically than RFK Jr.
00:48:30
Uh, measles is on the rise. >> I know you mean it's repulsive. >> He's a murderer. He's a murderer.
00:48:37
>> So, and this is the doctor. He took a hypocratic oath and he confirmed a guy he knew was was
00:48:47
creating fear and insecurity around our medical our great medical institutions and around and and and demonizing
00:48:54
vaccines. And he's a [ __ ] doctor. I mean, so I I I want to feel some glee here, but
00:49:02
here's the problem. It was good to have a doctor on many of these panels. He was about as reasonable
00:49:08
as they came. The person that's probably going to replace him is going to be
00:49:12
worse. So, this is just one of those things. It's like shavings of [ __ ] on a
00:49:16
[ __ ] salad. And it's fun to be gleeful about it and say, "Senator Cassidy,
00:49:21
you're, you know, the only thing I know that's gonna come of this is, oh my god,
00:49:26
wait and see the testicles that this senator is suddenly about to find he has."
00:49:30
>> Yes, he just did. >> Just watch him on Bill Maher. All of a sudden, he's going to turn into a trutht
00:49:35
teller. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I can't wait to see what he says about
00:49:38
RFK now. >> Yeah. >> And the problem is, folks, that's not when we need your testicles.
00:49:43
>> That's correct. >> That's not when we need you to be a leader. So I I I just think this is you
00:49:49
look left, you look right, and this is [ __ ] avenue because he was a reasonable
00:49:54
guy. You do need medical professionals on these panels to say, "Okay, one of us
00:49:59
is a doctor. Everyone else shut the [ __ ] up." I I think that training does pay
00:50:04
off. I believe in expertise. I believe in credentials. I believe in peer-reviewed research. I believe in
00:50:08
science. And so should America. We need more doctors, I think, in in Congress. the person who replaces him and he must
00:50:16
be pissed off because quite frankly while they're saying he came in third, he actually barely lost because he got
00:50:22
25. The other candidate who was anti-Trump or not a Trumpy got 28. So if he had just gotten 28 or 29, he might have won
00:50:32
in the general. I got to be honest though, you know what I'm so excited to see?
00:50:36
>> What? >> Oh my god, he's going after village idiot Lauren Boowbert.
00:50:41
>> Oh, he's going after Lauren Boowbert. And I just I just want to say I'm going
00:50:44
to host a fundraiser for for Boowbert and it's going to be whoever wins, she
00:50:49
has to go on a date with your 17-year-old son. I think she is the best date for a high school.
00:50:54
>> Oh my god. >> She'll let you. She goes to Beetlejuice. >> Where were you when I was 17?
00:51:02
Representative Boowbert, where were you? >> No, you didn't say anything about the
00:51:06
Democratic thing in Virginia. Briefly, >> but I said this last week. I we we're
00:51:11
hoping that that redistricting is beat by vibes. I just don't think there's any way to to to polish this.
00:51:20
This is bad for Democrats. >> Yeah, I think I I think he can't deny polling. Polling is polling and
00:51:25
everywhere it happens. You got to win by winning the votes. That's the way you
00:51:29
got to do it. >> But but I take the other side of that. If you jerrymander enough, you can win.
00:51:33
You can win more than you deserve. >> I still think it's an overwhelming It's
00:51:37
going to be a train. the latest. All right. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll
00:51:41
see. By the way, I believe in the voters. >> By the way, another talking point, Pete.
00:51:45
Pete or Rom. This is my grid. I took a grid. It's It's my my eight-year-old did
00:51:52
it. You know, Pete has little kids. He draw he drew eight lines exactly equidistant, horizontally, and he put it
00:52:00
on top of the US map. And this is what I'm going to propose for congressional
00:52:05
districts. I'm going to dejerrymander the United States. I think that is a great talking point right now.
00:52:11
>> That's another good one. Great. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the
00:52:14
reality star in the LA mayoral race. >> Support for the show comes from Claio.
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your T& budget, yes, 15%, check out non.com. Scott, we're back with more news. This
00:53:51
one. Oh my god. You could have run for mayor of Los Angeles at this point. Spencer Pratt, formerly a reality show
00:53:57
of The Hills, an generally awful person, is unexpectedly emerging as a contender
00:54:02
in the Los Angeles mayor's race. I'm not so clear he's going to win, but he's got
00:54:05
the mo. Despite his lack of uh political experience, Pratt has gained traction through viral social media campaigning
00:54:12
and support from figures like Joe Rogan and Elon Musk. Of course, Elon Musk. Pratt has built his campaign around
00:54:18
frustration with the cost of living in the city's response to wildfires which
00:54:21
destroyed his own home. Um, lot of reporting by Harvey Levan has shown most of the stuff he's saying to be nonsense.
00:54:28
Um, thank God for TMZ at this point. Um, he's signed up uh, of course an unscripted series following his bid to
00:54:35
be mayor and going into mayor of course because this is all a scam with Spencer Pratt and elsewhere in California
00:54:41
politics which seems insane this at this particular juncture. California gubernatorial candidate Tom Styer is
00:54:47
under investigation after his campaign paid influencers to post favorable content without clearly disclosing it
00:54:52
was sponsored. California law requires paid political content to include disclaimers as it should and state
00:54:58
regulators are now looking into whether those rules were violated. Both Democratic Republican groups report
00:55:02
spent millions of this type of endorsement over the past few campaign cycles. It's very it's propaganda. Um,
00:55:08
so reality stars, influencers, of course it's California, Spencer [ __ ] Pratt,
00:55:14
like what in the [ __ ] [ __ ] And a lot of people donate to him, by the way, don't
00:55:18
live in Los Angeles, but that's neither here nor there. Thoughts? >> I had a friend call me and ask me to
00:55:25
have him on the raging moderates pod. And look, a reality TV star. He lost his house in the Palisades. He's very good
00:55:32
on camera. He understands social media. Uh, he's got a lot of momentum. He's
00:55:36
running against what I think is a weak candidate and a frustrated populace. LA has become a little bit like I would
00:55:41
describe it as Cape Town. There are some areas of Cape Town I think this is the nicest place in the world and then if
00:55:46
you venture a few minutes outside of them it gets really ugly really fast. >> And the homeless problem, you know, I
00:55:53
think it's fair for people to say, "I'm paying some of the highest taxes in the
00:55:56
nation. >> I want I have to walk this way to my kids to school so they don't see a
00:56:02
homeless man masturbating or [ __ ] in the streets." that you know you you can
00:56:07
understand the the amount of bureaucracy trying to deal with the fires. A lot of
00:56:12
people don't like the way the fires. This is ripe for somebody to challenge Karen Mayor Bass. Uh where I land on the
00:56:20
following is the following. Spencer Pratt embraced Alex Jones is said 911 was an inside job and brought up doubt
00:56:28
about Sandy Hook. Go [ __ ] yourself. I I would vote for anyone over someone who
00:56:34
has embra embracing Alex Jones disqualifies you to run the what is one of the great cities in the world. So
00:56:41
this guy is evidence again of revolution and people so angry and so upset I hope
00:56:48
and it's also evidence of just how hard it is to find reasonably competent people to run for office
00:56:54
>> like Rick Caruso was supposed to challenge her who >> Rick would have been great. I'm trying
00:56:58
to get my friend Jamie Patrickov to run. He's nice. He loves LA. He has the money, which is important. He's
00:57:04
pragmatic. He's a business person. None of these people want to put their family
00:57:08
or themselves through this [ __ ] Also, somebody has to come in and take on many of the special interest groups,
00:57:14
including unions, including entrenched Democrats. A and it is a a lot of people will say, people really thought go LA
00:57:22
like California has become nearly ungovernable. And that is the special interest groups are so entrenched and so
00:57:28
hard to overcome. There's so much bureaucracy. It is so hard to find talented people to try and do this.
00:57:34
Everybody wants theirs and that it's become a very difficult but Spencer Pratt.
00:57:38
>> I know it's just amazing that some that people are backing this guy. This guy
00:57:42
and by the way I I'm not kidding about Harvey Lean. He actually showed how much
00:57:46
he was living at the Bair Hotel and was pretending to Anyway, look, there's frustration over everything. A lot of
00:57:53
the stuff that he's talking about is not the responsibility of Bass, but there's
00:57:57
anger at Bass about how she handled that. No question. There's anger and frustration about homelessness. There's
00:58:02
anger and frustration. But your your your choice is not to go with Spencer [ __ ] Pratt, by the way, who's just
00:58:09
one con after another. He really is. He really is. And lie and con after another. There's another council member
00:58:15
who's also showing some some a little bit not momentum but some numbers who had backed Bass and now is running
00:58:23
against Bass probably should >> I hate to say this but probably strike some sort of deal with Bass step down
00:58:29
and she will probably win Bass will because she's there's no >> pe no Latinos or black people are voting
00:58:36
for Spencer Brat and it's all outside money it's all people who have like very
00:58:41
little interest in it but he is articulating in anger Even if he's the worst vessel poss
00:58:48
>> that's exactly right and but this guy makes Trump look like a genius. Like let
00:58:52
me just say this is not even close. It's it would be such an embarrassment for
00:58:56
this to happen in San Francisco. You get Daniel Lur, someone who's a really who's
00:59:01
doing a good job. And by the way, I I still don't think Lennon Breed did the
00:59:04
worst job of all. It just was she had a lot of stuff that got piled up on top of
00:59:08
her. Um and and and and didn't have the tools because of different legal things
00:59:13
that got passed later that she couldn't deal with the homeless issue there, but
00:59:17
now Lur can. Um you you need someone like Luri, like find someone like that, like who is going to be like little
00:59:25
maybe a little more centrist than the left wants, maybe a little uh not as not as conservative as others want, right?
00:59:32
someone who's going to try to solve problems and at least make an attempt to
00:59:36
do so and instead this laughable like con man is the person you're picking and
00:59:41
and full of constant lies. It will be a disaster for Los Angeles is one of the most beautiful places on earth and if
00:59:47
they could be now Los Angeles compared to San Francisco is a quantum level of difficulty of running. It just is like
00:59:53
let's be clear. Um and uh but this is not what you want. And I think Bass has
00:59:59
started to acknowledge the problems, is saying all the right things. It's likely
01:00:03
she'll win. But the momentum for this [ __ ] clown, especially, let me tell you, anyone who calls me from Los
01:00:09
Angeles, and several have that say they're looking at them, we are no longer friends. Like, sorry. Just sorry.
01:00:16
Like, >> but the reason they're looking at them, quite frankly, you're being very
01:00:19
generous to Mayor Bass, >> right? I am. I am. I I agree. I think she's I has has not been great, but this
01:00:24
is the choice you have, right? This is the >> Fair enough. But there's a couple
01:00:27
takeaways here. Mayor Lurri and Democrats, especially Democrats in executive roles, not legislative roles.
01:00:34
There's a difference. Governor and mayor, it's an executive role. >> Agree.
01:00:38
>> And what Mayor Luri is doing, and every Democratic um mayor needs to take a
01:00:42
lesson, a note out of this page book and governor because if if Democratic governors and mayors can't figure out a
01:00:47
way to not make their cities come across as [ __ ] holes, it is going to be very
01:00:51
hard for them to run. They've got to show they have the ability to say no to
01:00:55
special interest groups and be about blocking and tackling such that they focus on quality of life issues. And
01:01:01
what Mayor Lurri has done that is so impressive is if you ask him about Israel, if you ask him about Ukraine, if
01:01:07
you ask him even about a national issue, bodily autonomy that doesn't directly
01:01:12
affect right now San Franciscans who have access to family planning, he says, "I'm not going to talk about it. That's
01:01:18
not why I'm here." Every mayor and governor in the United States thinks
01:01:22
that their mayoral or their governor governorship is a kickoff campaign for them to run for president. No. Get the
01:01:29
subways to run on [ __ ] time. Figure out the way the trash gets picked up. Figure out a way to strike a deal with
01:01:35
the unions if you're dealing with that such that they make good livingings, but
01:01:38
it's not they're not making $180,000 a year for their 40% agree with you in
01:01:43
retirement. Stop talking about national and international issues. No one gives a
01:01:48
[ __ ] what you think. run this city. And that is exactly what Mayor Lur is doing.
01:01:53
And he's very popular and he's getting a lot of support and he's getting [ __ ]
01:01:57
done and he's making hard decisions around homelessness and around municipal
01:02:01
transportation. The other thing I want to say that'll be Tommy Star has basically been accused of astroturfing.
01:02:09
I mean, that's effectively what it is. You're paying for people who endorse you
01:02:12
who don't disclose their endorsement. Okay. So is everyone else, >> right? I get it.
01:02:19
>> When when Manny was running and I said anything about the mayoral race,
01:02:24
hundreds of comments from bots, you're going to tell me they somehow weren't
01:02:30
connected to money and his campaign. >> No, it's a part of modern political
01:02:35
life. >> And so if Tom Styer does an astroturf, then good for him and he's going to
01:02:40
lose. This is now the world we live in. Unless the platforms figure out an airtight way to get rid of anonymous
01:02:46
accounts and unless they start going after agencies that claim to be PR and comm's firms, you are. Let me go
01:02:53
further. You're stupid not to astroturf back because everyone's doing it to you.
01:02:59
>> It is. It's just that there's got to be a way to solve this because it's such
01:03:03
like it's so >> platforms have to do it. >> No, absolutely. It's so noisy we can't
01:03:07
hear what people are saying. In this case, it looks like probably Basera looks like he's surging ahead at this
01:03:12
point. But that whole California race has been insane. Like all of them have got to someone needs to knock heads
01:03:18
there, but no one could knock heads anymore, right? So it's sort of a race to be an influencer or something or some
01:03:24
version of cheap and dirty. And that's a real shame. Um it really is. It's, you
01:03:29
know, California is an important state and should be governed by serious people both as cities are important cities. Um
01:03:36
they've led the way on innovation. whether they have troubles now that's a
01:03:39
different issue. I wish there was an alternative to Bass that was serious and I you know I get why you'd want to be
01:03:45
behind it but this you're doing this there's something wrong with you. There's something real wrong with you
01:03:49
anyway. We'll see what happens. We'll see. He may just fade just cuz he's such
01:03:53
a seems like such a village idiot. But we'll see. And if he wins watch out [ __ ] below
01:03:58
>> I've watched some of his stuff. I'll give him I think he's actually he's got
01:04:01
some of that Trump charisma. He does. He's got some of that. >> That's why he was a successful reality.
01:04:06
>> Anger and outrage tapping in. Again, this all comes back to the same thing.
01:04:10
People are getting 110 notifications on their phone that everyone's making bank
01:04:15
and has a hot boyfriend or girlfriend except them. Everyone feels as if they're falling behind. And when you're
01:04:23
falling behind and you're angry, chaos is your preferred candidate. >> That's correct. You're absolutely right.
01:04:30
Anyway, uh well, we'll see what happens there. Uh I I'd be interested. Don't
01:04:35
have Spencer Pratt on if you don't mind. You can, but you have to whack his the
01:04:38
[ __ ] out of him. >> No. Jess said Jess said if we do that, we have to have Mayor Bass on. And I'm
01:04:43
like, I don't I'm not going to platform anyone who said 9/11 is was an inside
01:04:48
job and is and has shared the stage with Alex Jones. >> And other than saying my heart goes out
01:04:55
to the victims of Sandy Hook, >> that's just disqualifying. I I'm doing a
01:05:00
lot of virtue signaling right now, but those are red lines. Those are okay. Those are red lines. Those are good
01:05:04
virtues, I would say. They're not virtue signaling. It's virtues. They're
01:05:07
virtuous. What? Virtuous. Those are good virtues. Uh there are some good virtues
01:05:11
uh these days. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
01:05:15
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01:07:30
vanta.com/pivot. Okay, let's do some wins and fails. Should I go first? >> You go first.
01:07:38
>> Okay. I'm going to put it as a win and a fail on both. Now, I love Steven
01:07:42
Colbear, right? I love him. I think he's really funny. I think he's gonna have an
01:07:46
enormous career after he leaves. Uh I think they're overdoing it on the Goodbye Tour. I have to say it the plays
01:07:52
I hate to agree with people, but it's like >> it's like a woman's birthday party that
01:07:56
turns into a Jubilee coronation for two [ __ ] years. >> Like come on. It's you know already.
01:08:01
>> Like it's it's like and it's also like it's the five white guys. I was like
01:08:05
this you're not making yourself feel like I get it. I'm pissed. I'm pissed
01:08:10
myself about the takeover. I I am too. But I'm not going to like go on about that said when
01:08:18
they what I did love is when they bring Letterman back who I love when he's mad.
01:08:22
Like I love a Letterman anger and I think it's really funny and that was sort of his brand and sort of dispic
01:08:27
anger and they threw the furniture and then they threw the melons and they threw the um the birthday cake off the
01:08:33
roof. I thought that was so funny and just exactly all I needed. So there that was my win and fail at the same time.
01:08:41
And when he says, "Good night and good luck, motherfuckers." That made me laugh
01:08:45
hysterically. Like, do it in humor, but it's getting like it's getting a little
01:08:50
much. I God, I can't believe Megan Kelly said a version of this. And I hate to
01:08:55
agree with her, but and I love Steven Cobear, and I think he's got I think they're not telling the truth about what
01:09:00
happened here. I do know that these shows are declining, and this is the way it goes. They could have done a lot of
01:09:06
other things, but just stick with the funny and we all know you got [ __ ] Like, I get it, but just go on and do
01:09:13
great things. That's what I would say. I just am feeling a little bit like, okay,
01:09:17
boys, you know, there are lots of people that get [ __ ] So, let's let's let's
01:09:22
do something about it as you say. All right, your win and fail. People are gonna be mad at me, but I love Steven
01:09:27
Coar anyway. Well, I have a fail and a prediction and okay, so um my fail is Nicholas Kristoff
01:09:38
and what I believe is a breakdown in standards at the New York Times and his piece on Palestinian prisoners. I think
01:09:45
it's my fail and not because the subject isn't serious and not because it's not it's an important issue. I
01:09:52
believe that our military operations in Western societies and democracies need to be held to a higher standard.
01:09:58
And whether it's a second strike on a on a on a boat, not a Navy vessel, with
01:10:04
survivors and not giving them quarter, or the abuse of Palestinian prisoners, I think that the IDF should be held to a
01:10:11
higher standard than any military in the Middle East. So, it's not that it's it's
01:10:16
not that it's not an important issue, but there's a line in the piece suggesting that dogs were trained to
01:10:22
rape prisoners. That's an extraordinary claim. And extraordinary claims require a level of
01:10:29
evidence that was not met here. Not vibes, not hearsay, not someone said. If you're going to publish something that
01:10:36
incendiary, you need airtight sourcing, multiple corroborated on there confirmations or clear documentation.
01:10:43
And as someone who has a background or experience with Belgian Malininois and uh has come very close to adopting a
01:10:52
canine dog, the notion that a dog can be trained to physically rape somebody, it's just [ __ ] ridiculous.
01:11:00
And I feel that they're not informing the public. They're injecting a narrative accelerant into one of the
01:11:05
most volatile conflicts on the planet. And here's the bigger problem. When legacy media outlets, especially one
01:11:12
that has the prestige, the reputation, the talent of the New York Time, runs with claims like that that aren't
01:11:19
bulletproofed. They're not risking being wrong. They're they're risking a further
01:11:24
erosion and trust in everything else that's true. And they hand ammunition to
01:11:29
people who want to dismiss all reporting as biased or fabricated. And this isn't
01:11:35
I'm trying not to take sides here. I think this is about standards. War is where truth goes to die on both sides.
01:11:42
Which means journalism needs to be really disciplined. And if you lower the bar because the story aligns with your
01:11:48
priors, you're no longer doing journalism, you're doing advocacy with a by line. And I think that these abuses,
01:11:55
the ones that can be proven, get discounted because the media couldn't resist the most shocking version of the
01:12:00
story. This reminds me of all those stories about child soldiers that really upset people for the right reason. You
01:12:07
take something innocent and talk about killing, taking dogs and combining it with rape. I it just I read it and I
01:12:14
thought this is just over the [ __ ] top for the New York Times. >> Well, can I just I'm not going to push
01:12:21
back because I think there's a lot of controversy around the story that it was
01:12:24
in the opinion section that in this case it probably the New York Times reporters
01:12:29
on the scene should have written >> a a follow-up story or something to talk
01:12:34
about this. Now, Kristoff is known as an excellent journalist, has done amazing work,
01:12:40
>> feels not just that, not just cuz he won the Post Prize, but like amazing work on
01:12:44
all sorts of abuses across the world, and he's been accurate as a he's a very
01:12:48
good reporter, too. >> Um, but this was an opinion section piece, as you know. Um, and the New York
01:12:54
Times has been very supportive of him, but I think in this case, this should have been also reported because of the
01:13:02
nature of it. You've got to have like extensive reporting on this even if it
01:13:08
because it's so incendiary and I I think probably I don't know what happened and
01:13:13
they need to talk about it but the New York Times is backing his reporting. The question is should they do more
01:13:19
reporting right on and if this was the same allegations on the Israeli side as been has been I mean on the Hamas side
01:13:26
um of the same sexual abuses same thing right like allegations same thing and so
01:13:33
that's what's important here is to do as I think you double report stuff like
01:13:38
this triple report and quadruple report it'll be interesting to see how it how
01:13:42
it pans out because the times has been backing him on this Um and and he he is citing a lot of UN
01:13:51
stuff. He's citing a lot of reports on the scene. He's citing a lot of stuff,
01:13:54
but it requires extra extra reporting. As much as, you know, that may be seem offensive to some, I I think I do agree
01:14:02
with you here. They've got to really button it up in a way that because of the incendiary nature and
01:14:09
where it is at the same time. Even if you you you have a side and you feel like you know that war does result in
01:14:16
terrible abuses of the citizenry. >> Yeah. I'm going to defer to you on
01:14:19
journalistic standards. I just read it and thought I I have trouble. This seems so
01:14:28
unbelievable that it required more than uh more evidence and better reporting than I I felt was evident in the
01:14:37
article. And that on something that is so important in terms of how we in the west and I do consider Israel Israel is
01:14:45
an ally and part of the west the standards they should be held to are really important and deserve they
01:14:50
deserve scrutiny. I mean, I get it. People who when people claim I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm anti-Israel. I say to
01:14:59
them, you know, I can relate to that because I don't like Netanyahu, but I care so much about Israel that I would
01:15:04
like to see Netanyahu voted out of office because I don't think they have acquitted themselves well in terms of
01:15:09
many of the ways they have approached this conflict. I get it. But when you when you reduce the veracity of your
01:15:17
reporting on this key issue and other ones by as someone I don't feel like I
01:15:22
have domain expertise around how prisons are treated. I have some domain expertise around dogs quite frankly and
01:15:29
I just thought okay I have I can't even this is unimaginable for me for someone
01:15:34
who has spent a lot of time around Belgium Malininois for them to say that and then I'm like
01:15:38
where's the evidence where the pro where's the proof where's the double the
01:15:41
corroboration the further investigation and it wasn't there and I thought it
01:15:46
reminded me of when you see those in just unthinkable pictures at the end of the war Americans
01:15:52
were really horrified by what they saw in concentration camps. They were almost as horrified by the Germans enlisting
01:16:00
14-year-olds and sending them to the front lines because you took children, something innocent, and you collided it
01:16:06
with something heinous, killing other people. And I this this rireed of that to me. Let's find the most innocent
01:16:13
creatures in the world, dogs, and let's combine it with rape. >> Well, let let me just read that for just
01:16:19
for this for people to know. It'll we'll see where it zeros out, but I'm assuming
01:16:23
there's they're going to do further reporting would be my guess internally.
01:16:27
Um, and there's a lot of people saying they're going to they're going to
01:16:30
retract it. I this is Kristoff has said this is not true. Um, this is the this was the quote that the New York Times
01:16:36
gave just so we have it. There is no truth uh to this at all. Nicholas Krischoff is a two-time Pulitzer
01:16:42
Prizewinning journalist who has reported on sexual violence for decades and is widely regarded as one of the best the
01:16:47
world's best on ground reporters documenting and bearing witness to sexual abuse experienced by women and
01:16:52
men in war and conflict zones. He traveled to the region to report firsthand on the stories of Palestinians
01:16:57
who suffered abuse. And this article collects accounts of the victim's own words backed by independent studies. So,
01:17:02
we'll see. This has another chapter happening because they're getting such
01:17:05
push back and including from Netanyahu. I I I I I do hate to say like you have to do extra reporting on certain topics,
01:17:13
but I think there's you have to anticipate even if um it's Netanyahu or whoever it happens to be and have
01:17:21
everything locked up tight. I would agree with you on that. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. Uh but
01:17:25
>> that was a productive conversation. I appreciate it. >> No problem. No problem.
01:17:28
>> So, uh >> people are going to be mad anyway no matter what. But >> there's no talking about this without
01:17:33
everyone going to their corner. >> Yeah. >> And and getting very upset. And I
01:17:38
understand that. Um >> Yeah. >> Look, my this is I'm not supposed to do
01:17:43
prediction, but I couldn't help it. It just struck me as fairly obvious. You're
01:17:48
going to see um uh you're going to see uh an invasion of some of the islands off the coast of
01:17:59
China. Um well, let me back up. Basically, um my prediction is Kinman and Matsu Islands are going to be
01:18:08
invaded in the next 24 months or seized and you're going to have what the Chinese
01:18:13
>> Yeah. You'll probably have an economic blockade. You can't have
01:18:18
I don't think an amphibious assault of Taiwan is feasible. And I think China
01:18:22
after seeing what's happened in Ukraine and Iran and the fact there isn't a
01:18:25
single single person in the Chinese military who has any combat experience, I don't think they want to get an
01:18:32
amphibious landing in Taiwan is unthinkable. However, the Straits of Taiwan are where where 50% of all
01:18:37
shipping goes through. >> Y >> I think a soft economic blockade is coming for the following reasons. A
01:18:43
chill went down my spine when on Air Force One, Trump was asked if he would support and defend Taiwan and he said,
01:18:50
uh, I'm not going to let anybody know that. Oh, >> he's such an imbecile, such a
01:18:54
>> What is clear to me, and the fact pattern is just so obvious here, is that
01:18:58
Trump is concerned with one thing, and that is becoming the wealthiest man in the world. And I believe he sold out
01:19:06
Taiwan in a private meeting at that summit. And evidence of that was for the first time an American president has
01:19:12
said, "Well, I'm not going to say anything about how I feel about America's continued support of Taiwan."
01:19:20
And it's not only turning our back on a democratic ally, but the basic the basic
01:19:25
counterbalance counterbalances amongst between US Cena relations is the following. They control 90% of the
01:19:33
processing of rare earth materials. We control 90% of the most advanced chips because because of our tight
01:19:40
relationship with Taiwan. If China gets access to those Taiwanese chips, which is another reason they wouldn't do an
01:19:47
amphibious invasion because they don't want to destroy those factories. But if
01:19:50
they use their economic clout to do what is effectively a soft creeping takeover
01:19:55
of Taiwan and we're not there to support them, China has won >> 100%. It's it's it's the move. It's the move
01:20:04
if you were them. >> And I think Trump I don't think Trump gives a [ __ ] about geopolitics, the
01:20:11
decline of US negotiating leverage. I think he cares about >> consumers. He doesn't care about
01:20:17
>> I think he cares about one thing. I think she if I were she, I would have
01:20:21
said the following. You know, you realize I'm super interested in your coin and with just a fraction of our
01:20:28
budget, I can use offshore accounts to take the Trump coin. I think I can get it worth here's my my ma my math guy
01:20:35
here. I think I can get it worth to be two 300 billion because price discovery is at the margins. I think I can take it
01:20:43
there within say 90 days 6 months before your presidency uh ends and then you'll
01:20:49
have 90 days to uh divest of your holdings. And by the way, is there any way you can move out Ohio class
01:20:56
submarines from all the straits of Taiwan? And by the way, I think economic reintegration of Taiwan into the great
01:21:04
nation of China would make sense without any bloodshed. What do you think? I think that conversation has already
01:21:09
happened and I think evidence of it was what he said on Air Force One. >> Yeah, he's a [ __ ]
01:21:14
>> And again, another talking point for a Democrat. We will back Taiwan economically and militarily if necessary
01:21:25
because chips are the future. Don't don't don't get backed into a corner
01:21:29
about threatening another forever war. Say chips are the future, folks. >> And Taiwan is an amazing ally of ours.
01:21:36
And the only reason that we have control over 90% of what is the new oil in an information economy, and that's chips.
01:21:42
We cannot let Taiwan go to the Chinese. Make an economic argument, not a military argument.
01:21:48
>> You know what I would do on top of that? I would make Jensen Juan move to Taiwan.
01:21:52
See how he feels about that. like with the Chinese blockade like let's have some these this selling chips to the
01:21:59
Chinese is such a mistake. It is such an advantage we have. You 100 I love this prediction. Scott, you should be mayor
01:22:05
of Los Angeles. That's what we should run. >> I'd run out on the In-N-Out on the
01:22:09
In-N-Out ticket. In-N-Out Burger ticket. >> Yeah, we could run. I I'll be top
01:22:13
adviser and speech right. >> I like it. I'm in. >> I'm in. Okay. Anyway, Scott, that is
01:22:17
really smart. That is a really You're absolutely right. That's exactly how
01:22:20
they're going to do it. and Trump has sold out a critical critical part of our
01:22:24
uh security. Anyway, and calling David Sanger, by the way, can I just just last thing? David Sanger, speaking of great
01:22:31
New York Times reporters, is one of the top reporters in this area. Calling him a traitor is is the one of the more
01:22:38
there's so many heinous things Trump says, but just just absolutely, as I always say, every accusation is a
01:22:45
confession. He's the traitor. Anyway, uh we want to hear from you. Send us your
01:22:50
questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
01:22:53
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01:22:58
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01:23:02
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