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I'm just waiting for the product release of AirPods that cost $300 and lose themselves automatically.
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[Music] Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I'm Scott
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Galloway. This episode is sponsored by IBM. So get excited, Scott, because it's a special show with Pivot listeners
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calling in and asking us their questions on all sorts of topics. We love talking to the people, Scott. I think it's
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really fun. Largely because our pivot listeners are really smart. Two, because it gives us questions we didn't think
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of, and three, uh because it forces us to to be social. Yeah, all of those things. Okay, let's jump right in and get to our first listener call. Uh hello
00:00:45
caller. We hear you have a fun stat about your pivot listening. Uh who are we talking to? Where are you calling
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from? And what's your question? Hey there, Karen Scott. How you doing? Uh how are you doing? I'm well. Uh yes, my
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name is Felipe and uh my stat is that since I am a nomadic designer uh have been for about three and a half years, meaning that I work pretty much everywhere in the world. I have listened to you guys while exploring 27 different
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countries. Whoa. Okay. So, where are you now? Where are you calling from? Uh yes.
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Yes. I am now currently in Bangkok. It is just past midnight. So, all right. What is your question? What is your question? So my question is uh is that so well a little bit of a this could get
00:01:27
a little philosophical but it seems like it seems like the general excitement around new technologies and product launches have kind of faded in the last two decades. I mean I remember being on
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the literal edge of my seat when watching the keynotes for the first iPhone, the MacBook Air when Steve took it out of the Manila envelope, the Model
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3 launch, and so on. So nowadays it seems like we watch these new product announcements with either skepticism or
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just straight up indifference. It's almost like we've seen so much new tech so frequently for so long that we're a little desensitized to it. So my my
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question is do you think that it's possible either at an individual level or collectively for us to get back to
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that childlike wonderment and enthusiasm for you know new technology that seems to have deflated over time? That's a great question. I'll start because I was at all those events physically which is
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was all it was also exciting to go to them. Let me say it was it was like a party, especially the Apple ones. You
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know, Microsofts were less fun, I'll be honest with you. And Bill Gates wasn't as good on stage, but Steve Jobs
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presenting was just it was it was magical. It really was. And it was really fun. It was a sense of theater, a
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sense of show. The products were always cool and you hadn't thought of them. They managed to keep everything under wraps, too. That was part of it is you
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didn't know what was he was going to pull out of his pocket or pull out of a manila envelope. And so the sense of
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theatricality and the the slowness of development. Um I think in the social media age when everybody knows everything that's going to happen before it happens, you don't get excited about
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it. Um, and so I think it's really hard, you know, even if you're like unveiling
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an invisibility cloak or something like crazy to that people don't feel that same sense of wonder about this stuff and they're not less magicians than they
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are just they want to make a lot of money kind of stuff. And so I can't think of a recent product launch that
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I've been like, "Oh my god, I can't believe it." You know? I don't know. Scott, what about you? I'm just waiting
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for the product release of AirPods that cost $300 and lose themselves automatically.
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Every day is new product introduction for me based on what my kid tries to convince me to buy him. Um, but I don't
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I've never really The thing that always struck me I I was a consultant for a long time and I stole basically
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the uh it struck me that Apple basically decided they were a luxury brand and took a page out of the book of fashion
00:03:52
shows for high-end couture brands and basically I saw Apple product launches not as product launches but as fashion shows and they had hot people highly choreographed in a beautiful environment
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and fashion shows are basically 8 to 12 minutes and exceptionally choreographed. And that's how I thought of that. Apple
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basically decided they were going high-end with vertical distribution and fashion shows for marketing. What's been
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magical for you, Scott? The new AI products, the video products, production products from uh Google I thought were
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pretty interesting. The Gemini stuff that to me seemed pretty The AI stuff is pretty dramatic. Well, I it's funny the one place I think that there could be more magic and he hasn't done it actually. It's a missing piece from Open
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AI. Mhm. you know, that the only thing I've seen is is um uh is him and Johnny IV about to blow each other. I mean, talking about their new acquisition,
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uh their new partnership, uh it strikes me that Sam Alman should be throwing a crazy event to to just
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highlight all the unbelievable things that you can do with AI. That'll be the I bet that's the next arms race in terms
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of events. Events. Interesting. I I don't know if any of them has the style of Steve Jobs. I mean, what do what do
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you think, Philipe? What you've been really excited when you see I think you just know about it before everything comes out. So, there's no wonder.
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There's no w like when literally when Steve Jobs pull out, you didn't know what the [ __ ] they were going to pull out of their pockets, right? What What
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have you been excited about? Yeah. No, that's true. I I I mean, when Steve took out the iPod Nano from his uh coin
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pocket, that was just like I remember gasping audibly uh at in my university when I watched that. People did there.
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Absolutely. But I mean you are right with social media and leaks and and and we always have so many uh like Photoshop
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renders etc before it comes out. So when it finally does it's like okay okay. But uh it could also be a plateau of
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technology like the last many iPhones have just been you know slightly faster, slightly better cameras and whatnot. But
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uh but I think that Scott is right in that Johnny might actually bring some of that magic to open AI. At least I hope.
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You know, one of the things that was hard for Tim Cook after Steve Jobs when he did those shows, he was just the one and he'd bring out like Coldplay or, you
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know, whoever the heck he hired uh uh whatever whatever celebrity he hired along with it. And there'd always be a celebrity around with him. Um but then they sort of with Tim because he's not
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nearly as charming, they brought out all of them, right? And it sort of loses its Yeah. the ensemble thing. And they're
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not none of them are particularly interesting, right? And so I went to one recently and I have to say I was like
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checking my phone. I was not it wasn't as like a wow kind of thing. Um they still are very good on the movies and the way it looked and the way they produce it. It still was beautiful. It
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just wasn't I can't explain what it was like to physically be there. It was really an exciting moment. I don't I
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can't think of any product that maybe movies today. Maybe. Yeah. It's funny. I think I think movie premieres and car
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like I think of auto the auto show was the kind of original big product release right and then I have been to a product
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I back in the '9s when I was running red envelope and the only place you could sell products you're too young for this Felipe Cara can tell you about this cuz she's much much older than you or me but
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the AOL had these big events back in DC and I remember Steve Case and Bob Pitman
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announcing like, you know, their new browser or whatever. And then they announced chat rooms where, you know,
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much middle-aged accounts could pretend their name was Chad and they were surfers or something. But I that was the
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last product kind of thing I went to and it was fun. It was nice. I think a lot of the theatrics have gone to politics
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now, right? And even that's getting tired. But I don't know. Anyway, we really appreciate your call. It's a
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great question when you think about it. Takes me down memory road. It wasn't, you know, used to be more fun. Life used
00:07:52
to be more fun. Now you've hope we can get back to it at some point. Thank you guys so much. It was great meeting you.
00:07:58
Thank you. Thank you for keep listening to us across the world. We appreciate it. Of course we'll do. Bye, guys.
00:08:03
Thanks. Okay, Scott, let's move on to our next caller. This is a question about parenting, how to navigate conversations around porn. Scott, I'm
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sick of talking to you about your porn use. Hello, Carrie uh from Maine. Let's hear your question and welcome to Pivot Live. Hi, thanks so much for um taking my question. Um, yeah. I was just
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curious how you both navigated conversations in your family, um, with your kids about pornography. Um, I've
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got two young boys. We're kind of in the pre-adolescent phase and my husband and I are trying to figure out how to how to
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talk with them about it. Um, porn is just so much more ubiquitous than it was when, you know, when we were younger.
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And, um, yeah, I'm just really curious how you guys navigate those conversations. Uh, I can start again. As
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I said, I say, "Scott, put down the phone." Um, but uh, you know, I think it's difficult. I had him I have two
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boys, older boys. The the three-year-old is not at that point yet. Um, but I did
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talk to him about it. I was like, it's it's everywhere. Um, I I'd rather not go through your phones, you know, and
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figure out what you're doing. That's one way of doing it is monitoring it and putting different structures on it so they can't, you know, you can do that
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through all kinds of um Verizon has a thing. I I was mostly with time was the thing I was monitoring more and actually stopping them from using it as much time. And of course, porn takes time
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apparently. Um but one of the things I did is I just flat out talked about it. I was like, "Look, there's a ton of porn
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on here I get." And not just from just porn sites, kids sending each other stuff. That was one of the things I was much more concerned. I was a girl sent Louis something and I was sort of
00:09:39
shocked. I was, you know, I was like, "I can't." He showed it to me and he I was like, "Oh dear, that's not and it wasn't
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porny. It just was not what I would want my daughter sending. That's for sure." Um, and so I had long talks with him
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about it and and about the usage of it. And I was trying not to be sex negative,
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but I definitely was like, "This is more addictive. It takes your time. It's desensitizing.
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Um, it's not good for your relationships over a long time." So, I just faced it head on. I don't know, Scott, you have
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the you're in the right age area now for that issue. Yeah. So, Carrie, I I navigated the conversation around the important topic of porn, the way the Hindenburg navigated its way into
00:10:22
landing in New Jersey. Um, so the truth has to my my partner demanded that I have the sex talk with my then 14 or 15year-old son. And so I took him to the beach and thought I was
00:10:36
going to have this very like hallmark moment and I said, "It's time to have the sex talk and I want to talk about porn." And before I even got the words
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out, he screamed louder than I've ever heard him scream. No. Like he's like, "No, I I no." And I'm like I'm like, "It's okay. We
00:10:54
can talk about this stuff." And he's like, "Do we have to? I really don't want." He seemed traumatized by the idea of the conversation. So, my
00:11:01
entire approach to talking to my sons about sex is I make them watch all eight seasons of Game of Thrones with me. It's got everything. It's literally got everything. It's got gay people. It's
00:11:13
got threesomes. It's got sex. It's got good relationships, bad relationships, bondage. Oh my god. Really aspirational
00:11:19
gay fig uh gay characters. Prince of Dorne, Pedro Pascal. And And then around porn, what I've
00:11:27
tried to couch it in other things. I talk about I talk about the notion that you don't you want to that you have only
00:11:34
a certain amount of mojo. I say you have only a certain amount of energy and you don't want to waste it on bad calories.
00:11:40
You have only a certain amount of focus, time and attention. You want to spend it on the two or three things that are most
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important in terms of your studying. And then I also try and slip in. Also, you want to be able to uh I said this. I
00:11:54
said, "The reason I met your mom, who is much more attractive and much more higher character than me, was I really
00:12:00
wanted to meet a woman." And I was willing to take risks. And I tell them, I told my oldest son, "If I'd had porn,
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I'm not sure I would have had that same mojo and fire to want to meet women." Mhm. And that anything that reduces your mojo and your fire uh is a courage killer. And what I've
00:12:19
said to my boys a bunch of time is that porn is a courage killer because it's on
00:12:24
demand. And what Cara says about it being, you know, a a terrible faximile of or or of
00:12:32
what you're supposed to expect in relationships. And I say to my boys, and this is what I'm embarrassed to say. I'm saying it's good to be horny. Channeling
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your sexual desire to making you a better man, wanting to make you stronger, dress better, smell good,
00:12:45
shower, develop a rap, endure rejection. I'm worried that that men are looking for lowrisk way to engage in what they see as a relationship with porn and AI. So, I try to position it to my boys. You
00:12:59
only have a limited amount of time with your boys. is you got to like keep it consistent and crisp I find because they just they tune me out at least. Yeah.
00:13:05
One of the things that's important to think about. Look, it's been around since time in memorial whether it was magazines and then it was Skinnamax
00:13:11
which is Scots and my favorite uh station. Um or whatever videotapes everyone has had has tried to get or or
00:13:18
going to places right where because there were physical places people went. It's not something you can stop. It's
00:13:24
sort of the same thing. Don't try drink don't drink at all. Like it's just not going to happen. and you you yourself if you've done it um you can't say don't do
00:13:32
it. It's very you know it's it's everybody experiments and does stuff like that. I think the very difference
00:13:37
is one it's much more addictive. It's much more accessible and it's much more specific, right? You can get anything,
00:13:45
right? And so it moves people down a a highway of something basic, you know, chalk van straw porn versus something really sick, right? And that's really the problem is that it can start to get
00:13:56
very dark very quickly and very accessible. And I think that's the way I more did it was I restricted their time, right? Like you could only be on the phone this much time. And one of the
00:14:08
things my and it was the time suck is that I thought about more than anything else. And of course porn is like that
00:14:14
whether you know and we make jokes there you know I watch on on threads or Instagram I watch something called food
00:14:20
porn which is like haha like we do porn everything and they just show different restaurant settings and doing cool
00:14:26
things and I watch it it's like quite addictive. The other thing is encouraging them to do um things outside
00:14:32
of the phone like again put down the phone. Uh my one of my sons himself, he bought one of those timer boxes that he
00:14:39
put the phone in and locked it and it it wouldn't open for five hours or whatever it was, which I thought was really, this
00:14:46
is something Alex did. I thought that was great cuz he wasn't getting his work done because it was so easy to fall in.
00:14:51
So time is the way I did it versus everyone's going to look at porn. But it is much darker and I would not I don't
00:14:57
know what I'm going to do with Saul when it, you know, I I honestly don't. It's a going to be a much different world than
00:15:03
my older kids. Carrie, are you are you are are you going to talk to them soon or is there an age that you or do you
00:15:09
split it between you and your husband? Um I mean my 10-year-old I have been very open. We've had lots of talks about
00:15:15
um you know I've tried to just be really open with him about lots of different things including sex. Um, so and I know
00:15:25
well I mean yeah you know even way ahead now they're getting exposed to things so so early on the bus on kids who have
00:15:33
phones. Um so I'm trying just to be really preemptive about it and just having those conversations be really open and flexible. But yeah. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough.
00:15:45
True story. The other day my son stole his phone. I knew what he was doing. He steals I'm not just He steals his phone to go into the bathroom to be on Tik Tok
00:15:51
cuz we don't like him on Tik Tok. So I started banging on the door and screaming start masturbating.
00:15:57
Anyways, that I'm sure that worked really well. Anyway, Carrie, we really appreciate it. Good luck. Both you and
00:16:02
your husband should be involved. It shouldn't just be the guy. How do you know it's a husband? How do you know it's not a wife trigger? I said husband.
00:16:08
I listen to my our listen. Do you have a husband or wife? I don't think of the heteronormative relationships. She said
00:16:13
husband. She said it because I listen to the listeners as opposed to you who are just literally not listening. Start
00:16:19
masturbating. All right, Carrie. Thank you so much as always. Thanks for thanks.
00:16:26
Support for Pivot comes from IBM. Bigger isn't always better, especially with AI.
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your models at ibm.com. The AI built for business. IBM Scott, we're back with our special call-in show, taking questions from our listeners. Let's go to our next caller.
00:16:51
This question is about AI and career choices. Hi, Jessica. Tell us about yourself and what your question is. Hi,
00:16:58
I live in Houston, Texas. I am a veterinarian and small business owner and my husband is an engineer for NASA.
00:17:05
We have two teenage sons, ages 15 and 13. So, they're just starting to think about college and career paths. And we keep hearing how AI and increasing
00:17:16
automation is just going to eliminate whole sectors of work and broad swats of especially entry level positions. And so I was just curious what advice you guys have for young people who want engaging
00:17:31
and fulfilling careers but careers that are not going to disappear as they move into them. Yes, it's definitely a fear including current careers. Uh Scott, why don't you start? I think you want your
00:17:43
kids to have a decent grounding in communications and the sciences and history and the same old stuff. Now, do
00:17:50
you unnaturally push them towards computer science as a lot of people were doing knowing that a lot of those jobs
00:17:55
are probably going to go away unless they're naturally drawn to it? Sure. But I don't think we can I think it's unhealthy to try and predict the future
00:18:03
and push your kids one way or the other. I remember in private schools in New York when everyone was trying to when everyone was forcing their kids to take
00:18:09
Mandarin thinking that China was taking over. And I think removing one of the biggest mistakes we did in public
00:18:15
schools was removing civics and wood shop and autoshop and metal shop and replacing it with computer science and
00:18:21
you end up with Mark Zuckerberg and less patriotism and also less uh young people
00:18:27
specifically young men who have the skills to go get vocational work. But I don't I I I think what you do is you
00:18:33
just encourage your kids to find stuff they're interested in. make sure they have a good grounding or some grounding
00:18:40
in, you know, reading, writing, you know, arithmetic, all that stuff. But I think trying to predict the future around what jobs will be there and which
00:18:47
ones won't, I think it's a fool's errand. I think you're just as likely to be wrong. And also, you know, we can we
00:18:55
like to think of ourselves as parents, as engineers that we engineer the sheep, and we're not. We're we're shepherds. We
00:19:02
can decide where they graze. We can point them in one direction. and we kind of get some influence on what they eat,
00:19:08
but they come to you out of nowhere. My son's interested in biology and my other son's interested in technology and I had
00:19:14
nothing to do with either of those things. So, I think you're just super supportive. Introduce them to a bunch of
00:19:19
stuff, but for God's sake, who knows? I would agree. One of the things that's interesting is, you know, I have two
00:19:25
very different older sons. The younger ones are not going to have a job for a while, but one of the things was encouraging them to get a wide range of
00:19:31
study. the one that was more interested in technology. I kind of insisted we both did that he take you know focus on
00:19:38
English focus on language whatever sports other things that weren't necessar like when he was applying for
00:19:45
colleges he applied to a lot of technology oriented ones and we we were like well think larger that you have
00:19:52
other offer cuz he liked to do glass uh art for example he does amazing like other things um like he's taking a linguistics course he's at Michigan which I was very happy for him to go
00:20:03
there because he had a lot of choice he was doing a a thing where he built uh these really cool uh floats, but it was
00:20:09
a lot of technology, but it was artistic cuz he had an artistic bent. And so, one of the things was sort of not shoving
00:20:16
them into anything. Now, in his case, interestingly, he was very aware of the AI issues well before I was. He's like,
00:20:23
AI is going to replace all of computer programming and therefore I and he was he's much more job focused in a great
00:20:29
way, but he's like, I'm going to do mechanical engineering because that's something that can't be replaced. So that was him doing it on his own his own
00:20:36
energy essentially. But one of the things we tried is to get them a wide range of things. Even if he tended
00:20:42
towards technology and my other son tended towards English and history, uh we wanted him to do more maths like like
00:20:49
to experience a lot of things. And again, you're right. Scott's right. You don't know what's going to be like I I
00:20:55
was one of those parents that were like he should learn Mandarin. I'm like why? Like he's not like it was but it was a
00:21:01
big pressure. like they're in Mandarin, they're in whatever. I just think if he likes languages, if he likes Chinese,
00:21:06
learn Chinese. But otherwise, not for for a job because you don't know what people will do. Um I do think we don't
00:21:13
know what jobs are going to be affected. Um but I I did tend to push them more into jobs that I did know weren't going
00:21:19
to be affected. Like if you like cooking, that's really not going to be subsumed or vocational. If they happen
00:21:24
to like that, that would be interesting. And so I just think the the more you give them a broad base of learning, the better you are and then they'll sort of self sort into things. Um but I would
00:21:37
say I wouldn't be a radiologist if they like I desperately want to be a radiologist or I desperately veterinary
00:21:43
medicine if that field's going to be right. Right. That said, it doesn't it means there's going to be vets using that who do better and fewer vets, I
00:21:54
guess, if that makes sense. And so get I I do encourage them to to use AI and try
00:21:59
it and and deploy it not absolutely like and figure out what it means for you because one thing Scott always says which I think is important is there's going to be fewer lawyers but the lawyers that are there are going to do
00:22:11
better because they use this technology sort of like not using the internet like kind of stuff. I don't anything else
00:22:17
Scott? Yeah, the one skill the one skill I if I could give my kids anyone skill and what I push them towards at every chance I get is I do think the skill
00:22:29
that if I had to pick one thing that will persevere and always be important in terms of your ability to advance professionally.
00:22:35
It's communications or specifically the ability to tell stories, create an arc and I think it starts with a written word and that is the ability to express yourself and organize your thoughts. And
00:22:48
so I make my kids take English and advanced English and also one of the things I loved about the school they're
00:22:53
in, they make them stand up and speak in front of other people. uh because when I look at I think for the last 50 years
00:23:00
and I think probably for the next 50 years the difference between someone who does well and someone who does exceptionally well is their ability to
00:23:06
capture people's attention and take data and create an arc and tell stories and compel people to action through either the written word and there's so many different mediums now for storytelling
00:23:17
whether it's Substack or the written word or writing books or in person but great communicators I mean there isn't you it's very difficult if you don't have a outsized disproportionate amount
00:23:28
of influence or disproportionate amount of economic opportunity or quite frankly a disproportionate amount of unearned
00:23:34
mating opportunities. It's quite frankly how good your rap is, your ability to engage people. So developing those skills early. I used to make my sons I
00:23:45
used to have this thing and I stopped it because it got too painful with one of my sons, but I used to say when we'd go out, you can't come back in the house
00:23:50
until you speak to a stranger. And you it would it one had no problem with it, another did have problems with it. And it would be like just go pet their dog, ask them what type of dog it is. But your your ability to engage
00:24:03
people, look them in the eye, establish conversation. I think that's kind of kind of, you know, sort of the building blocks of all of it. Yeah. One of the other things I I would say he's
00:24:13
absolutely right about communication, but creativity, too. try like creative stuff really does help you whatever it
00:24:21
happens to be whether it's cooking or glass art whatever just something that's not that's physical one of the things I
00:24:27
what sports too was another thing was like encourage sports because that's teamwork that's physical stuff it's out
00:24:34
of your head because there's so these kids are so much in their head and so much on the screen and so just phys not
00:24:41
like insistent but like put down the phone go kick a ball go kick a like that was the thing. Now, I was lucky because
00:24:47
both my kids like sports, but like to whatever it happens to with my daughter. She likes dancing, like she's going to
00:24:53
go to like dance, do whatever. My other son, I have a feeling is headed towards martial arts at this point cuz he likes to kick things. So, I'm like, "Okay, then we're going to do something with it. Let's make it productive." But one
00:25:05
of physicality, I think, is something that is undersung. Um, that is critically important. The other thing
00:25:10
Scott does a lot, which I think is I do a lot in a different way, is taking them to things like theater or sporting
00:25:16
events, like where lots of people are. And that's another thing that I think you learn a lot by that. And the last
00:25:23
thing I would say is a job. I think kids should work. I just do. I think um my son did so well working at a she worked
00:25:30
at a store uh a grocery store essentially. It was a sort of specialty foods and I think he learned how to get
00:25:36
show up on time, show up for a job, finish things, clean up things and and give them that respect. More engagement like like Scott was saying, more engagement with just the general public
00:25:47
and learning to Right. or figuring out a job, figuring out like a workplace. Yeah. Yeah. My son has an internship this summer and he's always calling me. He's like, "This happened." I'm like,
00:25:58
"Oh, that's an interesting." You know what I mean? like you just you have to like and they have to fail I think in a
00:26:04
lot of ways. I think kids should work at a a relatively early age. I did. But I don't know. Um they'll be fine. You'll
00:26:10
be surprised. Everything as Scott says, you just don't know. You can't second guess it. Anticipate. Yeah. Yep. Anyway,
00:26:16
we really appreciate it, Jessica. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. I enjoy the show and good luck. Thank you. Bye. Up
00:26:23
next, we have someone with a question about BYD and China. Tell us your name, where you're from, and your question.
00:26:29
Hi, my name is Kelvin. I live in the Bronx. Um, my question, so I've been thinking a lot about USChina dynamics, especially with tech and automobiles, and you guys have praised BYD's EVs, and
00:26:45
said that how it will be great if they could enter the US market. But also over the years, you guys expressed concerns about the CCP's influence, especially with Tik Tok. Uh, what what was it about
00:26:58
a year ago? We had the balloon over the Midwest. So my question is, if we are worried about China's social media apps spying on Americans, why would we
00:27:08
welcome a techfilled Chinese vehicle onto US streets? Could this possibly be a way of being like a Trojan horse to
00:27:17
for data collection and surveillance in America? That is an excellent question. You know what? I hadn't even thought
00:27:23
about that in terms of data collection. The reason why we talk about BYD is because they're really good cars. And
00:27:28
what's really depressing, I think, to me at least, and I don't know about Scott, is how incredibly innovative these cars
00:27:34
are and how cool and adorable and we wish there was more innovation with US car makers around. Now, there have been
00:27:40
there's been like the Volkswagen, they're not a US car maker, but Volkswagen ID, some of the GM cars are
00:27:46
great, some of the Ford cars are great. Um, but I it feels like the whole area needs innovation. And so rather than just copying, BYD is innovating with
00:27:57
cars. And so that's I think what we're in admiration of. But you're right, these things collect a lot of data.
00:28:02
They'll have a lot of questions about our movement. Uh we always will have China's always in a surveillance mode as
00:28:08
far as I can tell. That said, so is Facebook. So is Tesla. So are the rest of them. Um but you're right, it's a
00:28:14
diff I think it's a little different experience. Um knowing where people are going in their cars is that as much with
00:28:20
Tik Tok. you're more worried about propaganda, about um messaging and things like that over where people
00:28:28
physically are. But I suppose you're right, that is something that they could they could track. I just don't think
00:28:34
it's Tik Tok. I worry more about it as a propaganda more than a surveillance. I was thinking like, you know, by a card
00:28:40
you could tell the size of a family, what podcast they are listening to. Yeah. Could there even be technology to
00:28:46
record conversations? So, yes. Yep. I agree with you. I hadn't even thought about that as a surveillance ve like a
00:28:52
surveillance vehicle. It certainly is that. Scott, what do you think? Yeah, I maybe I should be more worried, but I'm not. Um, I think that we should have the technology to figure out if there's some
00:29:05
sort of remote transmission, if there's some sort of remote transmission or data storage technology that gets somehow
00:29:11
ends up in the wrong hands. Um, and also I'm I the surveillance horse is already
00:29:18
out of the barn. I think most people or most organizations if they're really committed to understanding where you
00:29:23
are, the relationships you have, your travel patterns, you know, I just can't imagine they couldn't get most of that information probably from hacking Uber or going onto the dark web or hacking or
00:29:34
not even hacking but just looking at your movements on meta. And I don't I think there's a bigger difference
00:29:40
between take worst case scenario understanding a family size and movements as opposed to training an
00:29:46
entire emerging generation of Americans to have sympathy for Hamas. And that's where I see the threat of Tik Tok. I
00:29:52
think I think the propaganda threat of raising a generation of civic business and
00:29:57
um nonprofit leaders that are anti-American, which is what I think Tik Tok, if I were controlling Tik Tok's
00:30:04
algorithm or had influence over it, that's where I'd be that's the scale I would be putting my thumb on. I just
00:30:09
think cars are less of a security risk. And also, I like the idea of young people having access to great cars for 18 or 20 grand. I want to see or less.
00:30:20
Some of those are 8,000. They're incredible. I I would love to see I think tariffs are terrible. I'd love to
00:30:26
see a global trade agreement. Our you know our trade our trade complexion with China is asymmetric. There's a lot to be
00:30:33
done there. But I think ultimately we want to put pressure on all global auto manufacturers to give our our households
00:30:41
the best cars for the lowest price possible and and the most innovative. That's right. And I think BYD is that.
00:30:46
Now, should they be should they be providing more access to our grade manufactured goods? Yes. Should they
00:30:52
have paid some sort of tax for the IP theft from Tesla and auto? I mean, it gets complicated fast, but I and maybe
00:30:59
I'm being naive. I'm not worried. I'm much more worried about Bidance than I am about BYD. Yeah. So, one of the
00:31:05
things also is that at some what we BYD is doing is they're invading other countries, Europe. You see them. I saw them all over Europe on my last trip. I had not seen BYD cars until recently.
00:31:19
One, they're delightful. They absolutely when I was in I asked to look at one. Um they're they're cars I wish I could own.
00:31:26
I know it sounds crazy like I didn't I don't think about China as a car manufacturer, but they're making enormous inroads into other countries
00:31:34
across the world as China is in lots of things. And the idea that China is just a stealer of information is they
00:31:41
absolutely are. They absolutely do steal IP, but they also are innovators at this point. They've started to switch, flip
00:31:48
the script, and they're very innovative as in and you can see that by they couldn't accomplish what they're doing
00:31:54
at BYD by just stealing things because there's nothing to steal. Like the Tesla hasn't changed its look in quite a
00:31:59
while. If I don't know, it looks like the same car as 5 years ago, 10 years ago, the price hasn't come down. They
00:32:04
haven't offered Tesla's missed the boat on offering a cheap car, right? They were supposed to and then they didn't.
00:32:11
Um, same thing with all of them is is as Scott said, young people don't have a chance to buy these things and there
00:32:17
would be they would proliferate if our car manufacturers didn't just stick up to the top, you know, wealthy people and
00:32:24
bring it down. So, um, you know, obviously it it seems like you should compete on
00:32:31
quality and and everything else, but it it demands that our own manufacturers do
00:32:37
the same thing, which I think they have a difficulty doing, and especially with the Trump administration openly hostile to EVs. Now, I think this new bill is
00:32:45
going to remove all the subsidies or encouraging and they're going to be very fossil fuel oriented. And so that's
00:32:51
again our country sort of shooting itself in the foot on the emerging technology that is critical which is
00:32:57
EVs. Um but you're right. It's an interesting question. Um uh but I I I'm also not that as worried as Scott. I'm
00:33:04
more worried about a propaganda vehicle than anything else. So any other thoughts, Kelvin? No. No. I I I just was
00:33:11
really interested in you guys conversation about that. Yeah, it's really it's a really interesting
00:33:16
question. It's a really it is an interesting question. But uh but there it doesn't matter. They're winning all over the world. I have to say they're
00:33:22
they're everywhere. Um and so that's the real opportunity for our our manufacturers to get all over the world
00:33:28
and be innovative, but we're not taking it. And now our our government doesn't want to help that happen. Anyway, uh
00:33:35
thank you so much. And we hear you're getting married this month. Congratulations. Actually, Saturday, my
00:33:40
husband and I, we are um getting married this Saturday. We're excited. It's going to be at our home. Um congratulations. I
00:33:47
want to send a shout out to him, Ory, and then also our family in Israel. Um, they were planning to be here, but
00:33:53
unfortunately they cannot make it um for obvious reasons. So, you know, our hearts are with them and we'll just
00:34:00
maybe find time to celebrate in Tel Aviv whenever all of this is over next year in Jerusalem, right? Right. Yeah.
00:34:07
Congratulations. Congratulations. We really appreciate you calling in. Thank you. Thank you. A pleasure speaking with you both. All right. Bye. All right.
00:34:14
Bye. Okay, Scott. One more quick break. When we come back, we'll take a final question about time travel. Okay, Scott,
00:34:20
we're back. Next up, we have a caller with a question about time travel. Let's bring a mim. Hello. Tell us who you are
00:34:26
and what your question is, time travel. Hey, thank you so much for having me. Check one off the bucket list. I'm on
00:34:32
with the big dog in the jungle cat. Pretty amazing. So, my name is Eric. I live near Philadelphia with my family. I
00:34:39
work in the energy industry. And my question for uh the two of you is if you had to um pick one timeline to go back
00:34:47
to um in history, what would you choose as that timeline and why? H wow. Scott, do you want to go first or I can? Whatever you want. I think about time travel a lot actually. Go ahead, Cara. I
00:34:58
am an HG Wells fan. I love that book, The Time Machine. And of course, A Time and Again was one of my favorite books
00:35:04
as a kid. Um I love JeanClaude Vanam and Time Cop. Um, I love time all the time things and I just find Ray Bradbury obviously with the butterfly on his foot and stuff like that. So, I'm a big I
00:35:16
think about time travel a lot and I I think it would be pretty cool to go back and the question is would you do anything and change anything? Um, you
00:35:24
know, God so many different choices. I got to I would like to meet Cleopatra. I got to say I I'm kind of have a lot of questions and so if I had to pick a a historic figure that time period,
00:35:37
although I'd probably be killed immediately as a witch or something like that, but if I could be invisible or
00:35:42
not, you know, know what I know now and go back then, I think that would be kind of cool, I think probably. I just I feel
00:35:50
like there's she was greatest ruler for a long long time for in the richest person in the world. And since I know so
00:35:56
many richest people in the world, it would be kind of interesting to see that era. I think that would be pretty cool.
00:36:03
Um, I probably would go back to see my dad when he was living, that would be the other one. Um, but then I would I be
00:36:10
my age I was or the age I am now. So, if I could know what I'm like now, then that would be cool. What about you,
00:36:16
Scott? Yeah, it's an interesting question. I don't I I I have no desire to go back very far cuz I'm kind of I've
00:36:22
sort of gotten fond of this whole Novacane and Netflix age we're in. Okay. And I don't I think people wax nostalgic
00:36:31
for for no reason for I think we're literally this is the best day ever in the history of the planet on a riskadjusted basis until tomorrow. I do think things just get better and people
00:36:43
don't because we live in a society where algorithms want to want to convince you that your life is terrible and people
00:36:49
aren't happy. It's not true. On almost every major metric, things get better every day. So, I don't I don't feel like
00:36:55
I need to go back. What what where I go to is I'm not interested in going to a different time. I'm going I'm interested
00:37:01
in going back to certain scenarios in my life. I would love to go back and spend some time when I had little kids in the
00:37:06
house. that was really magical and I kind of knew it at the time but I was working so hard that I didn't get to
00:37:12
spend as much time with them as I would have liked. So I would love to go back and be with you know four and
00:37:17
sevenyear-old boys instead of 14 and 17. So that's how I think of time travel. I don't think of going back to based on an
00:37:24
era. I think of going back to different points in my life because I want to you know I want to remember what that I
00:37:30
want to feel that I want to feel those moments again. But I don't have you can do what I did. You could have more kids.
00:37:37
Yeah, I think I'm close for business, Gar. Yeah, I would need to get divorced and go younger, which could happen.
00:37:42
Yeah. Um, I'm just saying you can experience it all over again. No, I'm going to rent Saul next time. Okay. Okay, good luck with that. Let's see. Um, you know, there's a great film about
00:37:53
that also. Speaking of time travel films, it's called About Time and it's um with Christopher Reef. No, it's Well,
00:37:59
that Oh, there's time. That's Seymour. That's um time time and somewhere in time. That's somewhere in time. Then they go he goes back and he sees the penny. That's an amazing movie. But there's another one called About Time
00:38:11
and it's with Bill Ny. Is it Na? Whatever that great actor. Well, he they can go back and redo things over and over again. And and and Rachel uh McAdams is in it. And they can go back
00:38:23
and like they meet they meet for the first time. He [ __ ] it up and he goes back and redo it and redo it until he gets it right. Um which is kind of cool
00:38:30
to be able to do that. There was a similar movie called Sliding Doors, but the best, in my opinion, the best modern day movie about time travel was Looper.
00:38:37
How about you? What would you What time Where would you go? Yeah. Where would you go? So, um, watching Stranger Things
00:38:43
on Netflix has made me a little nostalgic for the 1980s. So, I'm a a Gen X. Oh, best best era. That's what I was
00:38:50
Oh, so you picked one. Just you gave me an answer question. I agree. It was such a No, if I could be Were you I I don't
00:38:57
know if you're the same age as me. If I could be, if I just wanted to have fun, I would go back to UCLA in the 80s. I
00:39:02
mean, that was hard to beat. I bet. Yeah. And, you know, I could, you know, oh my gosh, I could have a good time. I'd finally hang up the condom I never used. Anyways, um, yeah,
00:39:14
the 80s. Tom Petty, Tom Petty, and Tom Petty. Yeah, that would be good. You had hair. I had a ponytail. I didn't just have hair. I had a ponytail. You had a ponytail. Why the 80s for you, Eric? Why
00:39:25
the 80s? It's almost like that ET vibe a little bit. You know, I was a kid on a dirt bike um roaming around
00:39:32
neighborhoods. There was a sense of like um freedom and uh and fun. You know, it
00:39:37
wasn't just being a kid, but like it was a lot different than being a kid now. So, yeah. Little nostalgic. Yeah. That's
00:39:43
where in in DC. In Washington DC in Northwest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different time. Although maybe it isn't for the kids, right? They may think this is the best time of their lives. They probably do. My kids are
00:39:56
carefree in a different way. Um, so we don't know. It just it'd be interesting to go back with your current personality
00:40:03
and knowledge to when you were a kid. That would be kind of cool. Exactly. Like you you know [ __ ] You know what I
00:40:09
mean? Like it would be that to me would um would be cool. I don't know. Still, I'm sticking with Cleopatra. Let's start a search engine and Mary Lauren Sanchos.
00:40:20
Okay, Scott. That's the show. As always, our listeners are so much smarter than we are. They really are. Don't you think? Mhm. Mhm. Is that all you have to
00:40:27
say? Yeah. No, I love it. I love our family. We'll be back on Friday with more pivot. Read us out, Scott. Today's
00:40:35
show was produced by Larara Neman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and her tad engineered this episode. Thanks to also Dubros,
00:40:41
Miss Vero, and Dan Shalon. Deso is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your
00:40:47
favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod.
00:40:54
We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. We didn't even say we go back and kill Hitler, did we? That's the old
00:41:01
That's the old go-to, right? We I think we all would do that.