00:00:00
This is kind of the definition of a quagmire and that is I'm not sure at this point he has any choice but to put
00:00:06
boots on the ground. I would argue at this point Cara Iran is winning. >> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York
00:00:18
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Callaway.
00:00:23
>> Scott, I have officially left your apartment in New York State. >> Oh, you moved into your new place? Yes,
00:00:28
I bought a small apartment in Brooklyn in >> Parkrooklyn where all the kid core kids
00:00:33
are. >> I have to say I enjoyed it. We went this weekend went to IKEA for 17 hours which
00:00:38
was fun. Actually bought a range of inexpensive furniture and it's very lovely actually. We we we it's very
00:00:45
nice. I miss you but I have to move on from our relation our housing relationship.
00:00:51
>> So do you know how many times I've been to Brooklyn in 25 years? >> How many?
00:00:55
>> Twice. both times to be to go to the so house there. There's no reason to ever
00:00:58
live the island unless you're going to JFK or LaGuardia. >> It's nice. We're very well known in Park
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Slope. I can tell you that. I got to stop. >> I don't doubt it. Royalty in Brooklyn.
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Jesus Christ. I can't even imagine. >> Hi, Cara. Welcome to Brooklyn. >> I know. That's exactly what happened. It
00:01:13
was two other things. Let me just say two other phenomena. So, I have all these books that I get for my podcast
00:01:19
and probably you do too, right? I I I cannot get rid of them here. I put them out on the stoop in Brooklyn. they were
00:01:24
gone. Like I have to say I get all these free books and they're good books and
00:01:29
they're all interesting, but I have to I like the whole culture of people walking
00:01:33
by and taking things and giving away things. It's really nice. So yeah, there
00:01:37
you have it. We are now officially semi not we don't live there, but it's nice
00:01:42
and anyone can stay. All you listeners can stay at my Brooklyn place. No, you can stay. I extend an invitation to you,
00:01:48
Scott Galloway. >> Happen. Um so gonna happen because it has a key of furniture. That's why
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>> uh you went to IKEA. >> Yeah, I love IKEA. >> Um don't uh why why do you like IKEA?
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>> Uh cuz it's cuz actually it's f it's it's perfectly nice stuff. If you get
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the the more the slightly more expensive stuff there, it's fine. And it's it I
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don't want I don't want to buy more. I have really nice furniture in where I
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live and I just don't need more furniture. >> The when I was there, the IKEA sales
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lady wanted to have sex with me, but all I wanted was a was one night stand. get it.
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>> I don't believe you have an IKEA joke at the ready. >> I don't think I've ever been to an IKEA.
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It's a phenomena. It's um >> I still was making a furniture all night
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long. >> I don't know. IKEA for me is is like uh a porn video and that is I'll never be
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able to do the same thing at home. It just it looks different at IKEA than in my own home when I try it.
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>> Yeah. Well, I'm a lesbian so I can assemble things. Well, I'm very good
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with that. >> You're >> Are you building a wood canoe in your living room?
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>> I did. I have to build this bed. I gave up on it. >> Woodwork. >> Yeah. The other thing I did, and I want
00:02:56
to recommend I went to my friend Sean Hayes's show called The Unknown. And it's a little bit about internet. It's a
00:03:03
little bit about It's really good. It's a one-man show. Uh it's a M I think it's
00:03:07
by David Kale, I think, is the playright. What a wonderful show. I have to We had a really nice time on this
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Broadway. >> It's off Broadway. He started off Broadway. I recommend it. The unknown.
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My Mexican friend >> builds all my IKEA furniture. I call him my instruction I call him my instruction
00:03:22
Manuel. >> Oh my god. Just go. Okay. All right. Anyway, >> at least upgrade to At least upgrade to
00:03:31
West Elm. >> I have Westm stuff. I have I have uh the other one. >> Position the brand of West Elm. It's one
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of my first clients. >> I like Westm actually. They make I have several I have some I have a West Elm
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bed here and I love it. I have >> You know what the strategy was? Well, I'm patting myself in the back. I my
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first strategy engagement. >> Oh yeah. >> Uh out of business school was helping
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position the Old Navy brand. >> And it was pretty easy. 80% of the gap for 50% of the price. And so my big
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insight at William Sonoma 5 years later was >> West Elm 80% of Pottery Barn for 50% of
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the price. >> Oh, interesting. It's nicer than Pottery Barn. I think Pottery Barn sort of lost
00:04:06
the >> West Elm is the fastest zero to a billion dollar brands in history have
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been that axiom. 80% of the 80% of the kind of industry leader for 50% of the price whether it's Southwest or Old Navy
00:04:18
or West Elm. >> It's West's a little nicer. And then there's the one room and board which is
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nice. I get a lot >> No, they do a great job. >> They do be I get a lot of their stuff.
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>> Not nearly as successful financially though. >> Yeah. And then what's the one that has
00:04:29
uh the big air couch? The big uh >> Well, Restoration Hardware. >> Restoration Hardware. I have a that's
00:04:35
that has that has all of my stuff in San Francisco. I got Restoration. Well, Gary, I I would I used to be very into
00:04:41
merchandising because I was in that business. The greatest, in my opinion, the greatest merchant of the last 20
00:04:44
years is is uh Gary Freriedman, the CEO of Restoration Hardware. >> Yeah, he had seen Cloud Couch. It's a
00:04:50
cloud couch. >> Uh he and I he and I are friends. He he gave me a tour of their space in um
00:04:56
>> in the meat packing district. They It was really interesting in the restaurant, which I think does more
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dollars per square foot than the store combined, but they don't serve alcohol
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cuz he said he wanted a safe place for women to come and just hang out. And then when when people drink alcohol,
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they get rowdy and obnoxious, which I thought was interesting. They have a beautiful alcohol
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>> in Manhattan, like go to lunch there. It's nice. Anyway, I have different
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levels of furniture depending on the house. San Francisco is all restoration hardware. Yeah. Anyway, all right. We'll
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move on because we got to get to the We love furniture day. No, no. I go I went to IKEA. I I
00:05:29
assembled furniture this weekend. Anyway, before we get to the news, uh this weekend around 8 million One thing
00:05:35
I didn't do, I didn't go to a No Kings rally over because I was assembling a
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key of furniture. Over 3,300 events around the world. I went to the last one, I think, over 200,000 people
00:05:45
attended the flagship rally in Minnesota. Incredible crowds. Some signs uh stand out, including you can't bomb
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away bomb your way out of the Epstein files. My country went to hell and all I got was this lousy ballroom. and balls
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for grabs with a sign that said free balls for Republicans. They were I love the signs. I you know
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it was really a lot of people. Eight million people. That's a lot of people.
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>> I'm in London. Although they did have a protest here which I did which I didn't
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go to but >> I don't know. I did what all lazy people do to virtue signal. I reposted Yeah.
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>> I reposted other people sacrificing. >> No, it was they looked wonderful and
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festive. I thought Bruce Spring I thought they were also did the messaging was excellent. I thought it was
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affordability. It's about no kids. It was everybody has all the progressives
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have modulated in a way that I think is very attractive. Very they're moving
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into the James Terico version of Democrats, right? The hey, what are we going to hear to help you affordability?
00:06:40
We want a thing. And the one thing I really like, there was a picture, a beautiful picture of Joan Bayz and um
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>> uh Jane Fonda that was with gray hair together was gorgeous. I thought that
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was I just thought it was visually very attractive. I think there is a real movement of people of all these
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elections happening and people are so sick of feeling bad and feeling like everything's a grift. It just feels it
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there was definitely a tide. I don't know if these protests help, but I like
00:07:09
them. I think they're >> supposedly Well, first off, it just feels and I say this all the time, but
00:07:14
my buddy Dan Harris action absorbs anxiety. It feels really good to do things with other people. And Timothy
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Snder says that protests start to build an infrastructure for organization and taking names and people get invested in
00:07:27
it. So they want to turn out again and they want to register people to vote. Also supposedly the supposedly there's a
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tipping point where if you get 3 and a half% of the population to demonstrate that usually conotes change. So this
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wasn't that cuz that would be I think about 11 or 12 million people. Just some
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data here. The October pro protest drew roughly 7 million and uh Saturday's turnout was nine million. So it's
00:07:51
building. And what's interesting or the most piece of data I thought is that
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twothirds of the RSVPs came from outside major urban centers including >> including conservativeleaning states
00:08:02
such as Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, South Dakota, Louisiana. >> Yeah. Those protests that takes a thing
00:08:08
for people to do things like that there like the villages. Did you see all the little villages carts? Yeah. Yeah. That
00:08:13
was kind of cool. >> What is traditionally very conservative and also the kind of the flagship was at
00:08:18
uh Minneapolis where almost a quarter of a million people turned out. Uh Springsteen performed. You mentioned
00:08:25
Joan Baz and Jane Fonda, Maggie Rogers and Senator. >> So just some context, the Women's March
00:08:32
in January 2017, previously considered the largest single day protest in US history, drew an
00:08:38
estimated uh 3.3 to 56 5.6 million people. So this was bigger. The BLM protest in June of 2020 drew an
00:08:46
estimated 15 to 26 million people, but over several weeks, but that was spread across multiple days. So if the 9
00:08:53
million uh person turnout estimate hold, Saturday's protest would be the largest
00:08:57
single day demonstration in American history. >> People are tired and they want to do
00:09:01
something. And it's not it's not hopeless. I went to the women's one. I
00:09:04
actually I took my sons to that. I made them wear [ __ ] hats. Well, that's the
00:09:08
way it goes. Anyway, it was we had actually had a wonderful time. I like doing things like that with my kids
00:09:13
because they can see things in action. Okay, moving on. Uh, President Trump says the US is in serious discussions
00:09:20
with the new regime in Iran, but he's also threatening to completely destroy
00:09:23
key energy sites if a deal is not reached. That's a nice way to negotiate. This is the Pentagon preparing for what
00:09:28
could be weeks of ground operations in Iran, according to the Washington Post. Total number of US troops in the Middle
00:09:34
East are now 50,000 around 50,000. That is insane amounts of people. roughly 10,000 higher than typical levels. Uh
00:09:41
the Iranian military is warning that any US occupation would lead to captivity, dismemberment, and disappearance. It is
00:09:47
worrisome with all those people there. There's always something bad going to
00:09:50
happen. And as the war drags on, markets are sliding down with NASDAQ and Dow falling into correction territory last
00:09:55
week and the S&P down about 7%. Markets are sort of a a trailing indicator of
00:10:00
some of this stuff, I think. But um I think it it's creates a jittery feeling
00:10:04
just because of the shifting back and forth. And if you noticed, a lot of Trump people, especially Marco Rubio and
00:10:09
JD Vance, were not on any of the Sunday shows. They're avoiding all the cabinet
00:10:13
members are avoiding the Sunday shows. Um, I had a really interesting interview before I went to New York with Tom
00:10:20
Tillis, which I think you should all listen to. It's up today. I mean, he was
00:10:24
expressing great distaste for this whole action. Um, we had a he's a obviously a
00:10:30
very conservative senator from North Carolina. He's leaving Congress so he feels like he can say whatever he wants,
00:10:34
which he did. Um, so what do you think's happening here, Scott? I mean, the back
00:10:39
and forth and the people are sort of trying to get out of the Trump blast zone on this situation. I'm sorry to use
00:10:45
that metaphor, but >> well, to say it's complicated is an understatement, but I'm one of the
00:10:52
people that would argue that >> we've been at war with Iran for the last
00:10:56
47 years. The first act of this regime in 1979 was to take Americans hostage. The question is, is this escalation in
00:11:03
the war? Uh, was it a smart idea? And I think if it had gone 72 hours in terms of getting some coordination with
00:11:11
European allies and even Gulf allies, >> you could have potentially declared
00:11:15
victory and really had a win. Um, but this is kind of the definition of a quagmire and that is I'm not sure at
00:11:23
this point he has any choice but to put boots on the ground because I and I had Senator Warner on my podcast. I would
00:11:28
argue at this point, Cara, Iran is winning. >> Yeah, that's that the IRGC has shown
00:11:34
that they can they can push back the, you know, >> the great Satans of Israel and the
00:11:40
United States. And what is at the end of the day, I think this is an enormous failure of uh our intelligence director
00:11:49
uh Tulsi Gabbard. >> Yeah. >> To not contemplate or consider a scenario where they cut off the straits
00:11:55
of Hormuz. She probably advised that. She didn't want to go. She's the America
00:12:00
first. Greg, her ad and Vance are on the maybe not so much kind of group. >> Yeah, but you okay, but they they're
00:12:07
claiming now that they're going to try and work with their allies who are all
00:12:10
saying [ __ ] you if you're going to be this much of a prick to us. But they
00:12:14
they're doing [ __ ] in reverse order. They should have secured the straits of
00:12:16
foremost before doing this. They should have contemplated, well, what happens if
00:12:20
they start firing Shihad drones that cost $20,000 and it cost us 2 million to shoot them down? What if they start
00:12:26
firing them into Dubai? So some basic scenario planning and intelligence from the people char I mean
00:12:34
>> I think he got that. I think some guy told him to do this like I the >> there's no leadership that it doesn't
00:12:40
matter if it doesn't bubble up >> which is what Tillis said. Tillis was
00:12:43
like I he always tries very hard not to insult Trump himself but he's like the
00:12:47
advisers and he's particularly for example went after Steven Miller on immigration. He particularly goes after
00:12:54
the adviserss. He's like he's either you have an adviser who's stupid and just
00:12:58
like tells them dumb things or you have an adviser who knows better who says nothing, right? Who doesn't who tries to
00:13:04
like assuage the president versus and he goes either way his adviserss suck, you
00:13:09
know? And I think that's true, but at some point it's treating Trump like a
00:13:13
toddler. Oh, we managed to keep him this or that. So, it's a complicated situation there is this guy wants to do
00:13:20
what he wants to do now and he has advisers who are either too weak to tell him the truth or tell him the truth and
00:13:26
then get fired or slapped for it kind of stuff. I don't know. It's a problematic
00:13:30
sit it's not certainly not the the group of rivals that Lincoln had. >> Well, but a lot of people would argue on
00:13:37
the opposite side that basically Secretary Rubio is a shadow president making these decisions and so is his
00:13:42
son-in-law Kushner. So, >> right, >> you know, which is it? Is he listening
00:13:46
to people or is he not? Because it to me this is just such a striking intelligence failure to not do some
00:13:53
basic scenario planning around what if and we are now in a position of weakness where I mean the general not the
00:14:00
consensus but when I speak to people in the intelligence community there's a
00:14:04
feeling okay the most obvious next step here is that he feels to save face because the RGC has said [ __ ] you you
00:14:10
can pretend you're talking to us we're not talking back we have dispersed we
00:14:15
anti we did scenario planning we We anticipated what if our leadership is killed and they have dispersed military
00:14:22
and executive authority out to the various regions. So they're like cut off the head of the snake. That's okay. We
00:14:28
the snake's going to keep moving. So there was no basic uh essential basic scenario planning here. And the general
00:14:35
feeling is that he will land troops potentially on Car Island and then try and secure Kar and do a deal to exchange
00:14:42
Carg for opening the Straits of Hormuz. >> Right. No, but that's what we had
00:14:47
before. Like one of the things that >> I'm not arguing it's we're in a good
00:14:50
spot. >> One of the things when I talked to Tillis and when I also talked to Warner
00:14:53
is that the same thing you're talking about these drones and everything else
00:14:56
like the word obliterate that he obliterated it months ago the nuclear facilities but now he's obliterating
00:15:02
more and you know tell us who's sort of had seems to have run out of [ __ ] was
00:15:06
like yeah we obliterated again and then we obliterated it like you know >> you can't that's like to say you
00:15:13
obliterate. All right. So essentially what you have >> making fun of Trump. I believe that's
00:15:16
what was happening there. >> Again the the key word in all of this coming out of Ukraine and now this war
00:15:22
is asymmetry. And that is wars and shaping of you know energy routes and ability to solve things without when
00:15:30
diplomatic means have failed have been based on very expensive platforms and technology no one else had access to. It
00:15:36
has gone the entirely other way. And now you can essentially build a drone for $20,000 with a two-stroke engine similar
00:15:44
to what's in a motorcycle. And that's like to say you're gonna obliterate it.
00:15:48
If if we all of a sudden declared war on Texas and most of the Southwest actually, which Iran is bigger than, and
00:15:54
said, "Okay, how do you find every little factory that's pull push pulling
00:15:59
together lawnmowers?" That's what you're up against. you're not going to be able
00:16:03
and then they launch 40 of these things and the defense systems get confused and
00:16:07
all you need it's similar similar to the Department of Homeland Security or the
00:16:11
FBI they have to stop every terrorist attack right >> and the notion that just one
00:16:20
>> one >> one ship is set on fire or the Burj Khalifa is taken down in Dubai
00:16:26
>> that's all they need and what's actually stopping this and you can imagine
00:16:31
>> if you're if you're transporting tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of a
00:16:35
product called oil through a dangerous area, there needs to be insurance against that payment against that that
00:16:44
substance arriving at its destination. In other words, there's cross party collateralization in insurance. And
00:16:50
right now, I would argue what's actually holding up the straits of Hormos is I
00:16:53
don't believe any insurance company is willing to insure these tankers right
00:16:56
now. >> Yeah, I don't know what I would do if I was running these companies. Anyway,
00:16:59
we'll see what happens. It's still confusing and it's gone on far too long.
00:17:03
This confusing and I think that's the real problem. He's really stuck in a a
00:17:06
quagmire. >> A quagmire. This is the definition in a corner. >> If he had after 72 hours said we've
00:17:13
we've further diminished their ability to fund proxies. We have substantially
00:17:16
denigrated their launch capabilities. We have we have made the the the leadership
00:17:22
infrastructure much more insecure and diminished it vastly. we are now going to work with our Gulf allies and
00:17:28
European nations to try and maintain a sense of security and keep in a box. He probably could have declared at some
00:17:34
level victory. >> But Scott, chaos follows this guy. The chaos is his his brand right now.
00:17:39
Anyway, um >> agreed. >> Uh let's move on. The boys are uh really
00:17:44
back together. Speaking of which, speaking of chaos, Elon Musk joined a phone call with President Trump and
00:17:49
India's Prime Minister Modi about the Strait of Hormuz. It's unclear whether
00:17:53
Mus spoke on the call and neither government mentioned his presence in the official readouts. Meanwhile, as we all
00:17:58
know, SpaceX is preparing to launch the largest IPO of all time, reportedly targeting a $ 1.75 trillion valuation,
00:18:04
which is kind of a lot over their revenues, but okay, fine. That's a Musk company. Musk reportedly wants to have
00:18:10
investors come to SpaceX's seat facilities and rocket launches. He does that a lot. He invites people in to show
00:18:15
off his wares of impressive wares. He does He's doing that with robotics, too,
00:18:19
which are pretty cool. Um, the company is also considering limiting share sales by early investors, a preferential
00:18:25
treatment for investors in Musk's other companies, which is why they suck up to
00:18:29
him so and reserving a large That's why they buy Twitter, so they can get into
00:18:33
this. And reserving a large portion of the shares for individual investors. That's fine. That's great. Speaking of
00:18:39
making amends with his enemies, text released as part of Musk's lawsuit against OpenAI show that Zuckerberg
00:18:44
tested Musk saying, "Looks like Doge is making progress. I've got our teams on
00:18:48
alert to take down contact doxing or threatening the people on your team. Let me know if there's anything I can do to
00:18:54
help. Oh, he does want to content moderate. Musk hearted the message and then asked Zucker would be open to
00:18:59
bidding on open AI with him, which the two seem to have spoken about on the phone. I mean, these people say one
00:19:05
thing in public and another in private, but talk first about um the phone call, then the IPO, and you know, Mark
00:19:11
Zuckerberg will talk to anybody if it means a deal. So, that's what I think about that.
00:19:16
I don't I I don't have a problem with the president inviting people into a
00:19:20
call that he thinks can help achieve the objectives whether it's someone who has
00:19:24
domain expertise whether Musk is the right person to have on the call but I think the president should bring to bear
00:19:29
any resources he thinks going to result in a more productive conversation and Modi is probably wants probably
00:19:37
wants uh you know Starlink or maybe Modi and Musk have a pre-existing relationship who knows or maybe like you
00:19:43
said he's just showing them off. The staggering thing for me is I I can't
00:19:49
wait for the S1 because the target valuation of 1 8 trillion. This company, you know, it's projected or generated
00:19:59
roughly 15 to 16 billion and about 8 billion in profit in 2025. That means at the IPO it's trading at
00:20:07
109 times trailing revenue. >> That's a must company, right? Are you going to do like you did with Weiwork?
00:20:13
I'd love to see. >> Oh, but that's more than pound. Oh, no. No. This is a real company. It might be
00:20:16
overvalued. Yeah. >> But we work as it scaled lost more money. This is a company with
00:20:21
unbelievable product and moes. It's But two things can be true at once. Is it an
00:20:27
unbelievable company with I think probably the widest moes in the business world right now? Absolutely.
00:20:32
>> For now. >> For now. Um but everyone feels like a distant number two. Like who's the
00:20:38
number two here? >> I don't know. I think people will catch up in this. I think I take a lot
00:20:42
everyone said no when it catch Tesla. Everyone caught Tesla and it was a lot faster than we thought. Right.
00:20:46
>> Yeah. But manufacturing manufacturing an EV versus a launch capability.
00:20:52
>> I just I think >> you think someone's going to catch up. >> I think I think Bezos is working on it.
00:20:57
I think a lot of countries there's ones happening in Europe. I think look it's
00:21:01
not going to be the only one and everyone's going to be like why are we you know it's sort of like the Lockheed
00:21:05
problem right? I think a lot of people think it's an attractive thing. 90% of
00:21:10
launches. >> I get it. They are the only remember when he said it. >> They are the only company in the world
00:21:15
right now that is capable of putting humans into space. >> Yep. Yep. And when you look at when you
00:21:20
look at space and whether it's energy or connectivity or or or space military or
00:21:26
space defense, they're all for a while going to have to come through SpaceX. At
00:21:31
the same time, >> no question. >> At the same time, is it worth >> Yes.
00:21:35
>> 109 times revenue? I don't >> situation. Tesla is declining precipitously and yet it still trades at
00:21:42
a ridiculous. >> But Musk owns roughly 42% of SpaceX. So this IPO could make him the first
00:21:48
recorded trillionaire in history. And on Kyi the odds that he'll become the a
00:21:52
trillionaire this year are 71%. So there's almost a three in4 chance according to a lot of people
00:21:59
>> that Musk is about to become the trillionaire. And that is in my view really uh troubling uh because I think
00:22:09
as a species we need guard rails and money directly translates to power and I don't think any unelected person should
00:22:17
have this much power. >> Yeah, he definitely pushes himself into every single aspect of our lives, you
00:22:23
know, in some way and he'll do a trillion dollars. Say he takes >> politically he'll be problematic. say he
00:22:29
says, "Okay, I'm I'm going to die soon and I want to be worth five trillion and
00:22:34
I'm going to I want to I want to decide who the next president is. I'm going to
00:22:38
take 3% of my net worth, which would be $30 billion." There's there's evidence
00:22:44
that he had influence on Trump's election with 250 million. >> Mhm. >> So with
00:22:49
>> But he didn't in Wisconsin with 25. That's a lot in that state. Like I think
00:22:53
it's a mixed bag. When he shows up, it's a lot of money. When he shows up, it's a
00:22:58
lot of Yeah. No, you know, I think >> Citizens United and a guy being worth a
00:23:02
trillion dollars. >> Agreed. >> Is really scary. >> It also has effects of if this guy is
00:23:07
he's like the Soros or he's the Soros of the right essentially now, right on some
00:23:12
level. And I do think it has a negative impact and and alerts people to this situation that he I don't think money
00:23:19
buys everything. He's he's failed in a number of areas like Doge. he's failed
00:23:23
and like he fails quite a bit which of course is his his brand is I fail and then I succeed. Um
00:23:29
>> I think in a close election which most presidential elections are he could
00:23:32
absolutely swing it. >> He already has he already has had more impact than any individual in recent
00:23:37
history especially killing people across the globe with Doge. I mean again I I it'll we'll see what happens here but
00:23:44
they certainly it's going to be the blockbuster IPO and it will be overvalued by a lot given you know
00:23:51
they'll have a lot of the skis to cover and then they'll have the money to do
00:23:54
so, right? To to sort of create that moat even wider. >> Incredible. It's an incredible I won't
00:23:59
even call it a product because what it really is, it's global infrastructure.
00:24:03
Um they have the largest commercial satellite constellation. It's no, which by the way is no longer NASA, it's
00:24:08
SpaceX. And as of May 2025, Starlink controlled more than 7,600 satellites or 2/3 of all active
00:24:15
satellites in orbit. The majority of new satellites launched globally in late 2024 were Starlink. And SpaceX plans to
00:24:23
scale to 42,000 satellites. That's up sixfold. >> Yep. They control global global
00:24:28
information system. >> Making Starlink the deacto broadband backbone in space and projections for
00:24:33
the end of 2025. 6 million subscribers and 62% of global satellite broadband revenue um going to one company. And
00:24:42
most competitors can match SpaceX's price, cadence, or reliability. I know Facebook has tried uh Amazon has tried.
00:24:49
They're all trying. I I I always feel like this is these are these high water
00:24:53
marks for these people, but that's I I you know it you have to hand it to him.
00:24:57
I remember when he talked about it for the first time to me um that the creating this two people were talking
00:25:02
about this at the time. Him and oddly enough Jerry Yang had an investment in a low and it's the first time I learned of
00:25:09
it. So I got real I learn I I I got caught up on the topic like what it was going to do. But Jerry Yang had an
00:25:16
investment in one and it was he's the first person who talked about it and then Musk that same year started talking
00:25:21
about it. This was a long long long time ago and it was really at the time I remember thinking no one's talking like
00:25:27
this like everyone else was like doing a [ __ ] dating service or some dumb thing.
00:25:31
>> It comes down to some very boring numbers and that is the cost to launch a
00:25:38
kilogram of material usually a satellite into low earth orbit. And this is what SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket can launch
00:25:47
into a kilogram for. They can launch a kilogram into space for $1,500. Uh Aron's 5G, it costs them $9,200.
00:25:58
Their Electron product cost $19,000. Their launches, SpaceX's launches occur
00:26:03
every 2 to three days. No other provider is within range. So they are they are 6x
00:26:09
less expensive. The Chinese certainly have capabilities here. So anyway, >> do they I don't know that much about
00:26:14
Chinese. >> They do they and so you know one of the things it'll be interesting to see what
00:26:18
happens here and what the these forces are really powerful and he is very powerful single person. It does put him
00:26:25
at great risk too of being a not just not a physical target. That's not what
00:26:30
I'm talking about. But when something like this happens there's always forces
00:26:33
against it that I think that we that will start to build. He becomes and he becomes soros. He becomes Soros in a
00:26:41
weird way. >> But I I feel much more benign about Soros. Why do you >> I do too, but I'm talking about to the
00:26:46
right he or the Koch brothers like pick pick whatever one who's or Henry Ford
00:26:51
back in the day. There was also a Texas billionaire and I can't remember his
00:26:54
name a million years like in the 20s that did stuff like that. >> But there's a different like so and cork
00:26:59
the Koch brothers they were all quite philanthropic. >> Well not him not not Elon for sure. Musk
00:27:05
is not. And Musk is infinitely more powerful and has a technology that can basically decide
00:27:11
>> wars. And this is a guy who is reportedly addicted to ketamine. What could go wrong?
00:27:15
>> Things are wrong. Let me just tell you, I'm glad. >> It does feel like a bond film, but less
00:27:19
than is glad she's in Park Slope. I'll be protected by the lesbian. >> Oh yeah, you're safe in Brooklyn. Yeah.
00:27:24
A nuclear device gets detonated 500 meters above Midtown. Yeah, Brooklyn's going to be fine.
00:27:29
>> No, what I mean is that like if he's coming after me, he's he's not a fan of
00:27:32
Caris Swisser. Um, but maybe you should make nice with them. >> That's what I don't get about I talked
00:27:37
to one of these guys that is building the bunker in New Zealand, a guy, you know, and
00:27:41
>> and I'm like, you realize if [ __ ] gets real >> and you fire up the G650 and had to
00:27:48
peace out to New Zealand, you realize your your pilots are going to kill you and [ __ ] your wife, right?
00:27:52
>> That's correct. >> And the table went quiet. >> I know. I said that to one of them who
00:27:56
had a plan. I said, "What's your plan?" I said, "I'm going to kill you and take
00:27:59
your motorcycle out to your >> [ __ ] your wife." I was like, "Of
00:28:03
course." And then they were like, "You could see them calculating, how do I
00:28:05
stop Cara from killing me?" I said, "You won't see me coming."
00:28:08
>> You think if if if the [ __ ] goes to where these think people think it's
00:28:12
going >> Yeah. >> This the people who die right away are the lucky ones.
00:28:16
>> I Exactly. I sometimes think that living in Washington, I feel okay about that.
00:28:20
Anyway, let's not go there. Let's not go there. Congratulations, Elon Musk, on
00:28:24
your SpaceX victory. >> You're still terrible person. No matter how rich you get, you're completely
00:28:30
unlikable. Anyway, oh, I have to say one Brooklyn thing. So, I was it was there was this crazy cyber truck parked across
00:28:37
the street. I thought, "Oh, who's doing this?" Right where my apartment is and
00:28:41
it was tricked out. It was all manner of [ __ ] on it. I didn't know. It was some
00:28:44
sort of commercial thing. And you know, there's a bunch of teen boys and they
00:28:48
weren't they were just hanging out and I thought first they were like admiring it
00:28:52
and what was really funny is and they weren't they weren't sort of typical
00:28:56
parks. I'm trying to like they were they were sort of sitting in front of it like
00:29:00
talking about it. I'm I went over and I'm like what do you think? And I wasn't
00:29:03
making an opinion. They're like what a douche. And it was like they were like
00:29:08
it was interesting because I just interviewed Louis Thorough uh Thoru. Uh who's Justin.
00:29:12
>> Oh you you interviewed about the manosphere. >> Yes. Exactly. >> You're beating me to my content.
00:29:16
>> I'm so sorry. I'm way ahead of you. >> How was it? That's Justin's cousin.
00:29:20
>> Fantastic. I know it's Justin's cousin. Um he's also a great filmmaker. Uh, I
00:29:24
got to say was really interesting is one the point thing you pointed out is even
00:29:27
though a lot of these manosphere guys are really popular, there's also a whole
00:29:30
group of young men who are like they they mock them and enjoy being in on the joke and mocking them at the same time
00:29:38
and also liking some of it but mocking them. And that was going on in front of the Cybertruck. They're like is such a
00:29:44
douche but like whatever. And they were so cool and I was like, "Oh, I feel so
00:29:48
much better about you after talking to these guys because they were so cool and they also were in on the joke and I
00:29:56
don't know, I just felt better." Anyway, yes, Louis. Yes, it was great. And we
00:29:58
talked of you >> just so you know. >> Good. I'm glad I'm supposed to have him
00:30:03
on. I wrote a my number. I wrote a review of the of the show. >> I loved it.
00:30:08
>> Yeah, it was really illuminating for me. >> Can I tell you the one line I loved the
00:30:11
best of all? I liked his I like his interview style and I was actually looking at as a professional how he does
00:30:16
the interview style. I agree. >> When he's work when he's HS whatever tdy
00:30:21
whatever ticky talkie whatever tick- tockie um he was working out and he goes is this your leg day he's British and
00:30:28
the guy goes of course it is you know like like an [ __ ] and like shows off his thigh which is quite a beefy thigh
00:30:36
>> and Louis Lou Louisie looks at him and he goes you could work on those calves
00:30:41
and the guy just melts and I was like I love you Louis thu I love him pronounced
00:30:46
it through. Unlike Justin, they pronounce it differently. Um, >> anyway, it he has all these lines like
00:30:52
that in there that he just eviscerates these people with kindness in a way that's really
00:30:56
>> Yeah, I agree. >> It's a really good show. Anyway, uh Elon, good luck. Anyway, uh let's go. Uh
00:31:03
Elon, you could work on your calves. Uh okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
00:31:07
When we come back, Anthropic scores a win against the Pentagon. Support for this show comes from Framer. Your
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00:32:23
rules and restrictions apply. Scott, we're back anthropic to score a win in his fight with the Trump
00:32:29
administration. Obviously, a federal judge in California granted a preliminary injunction temporarily
00:32:34
blocking the Pentagon's efforts to label the company a supply chain rest. The
00:32:38
judge didn't mince words in her ruling, saying, "This is a classic illegal first
00:32:41
amendment retaliation." Exactly. She also called it a quote Orwellian notion
00:32:46
to brand an American company a potential adversary for expressing disagreement. The Pentagon is pushing back, expected
00:32:51
to appeal, of course, with senior official Emil Michael, another Loathome character, tweeting, "The ruling is a
00:32:57
disgrace." Oh, Emil, get over it. The final decision in this case could still
00:33:02
be months away. There's also a second lawsuit pending in DC. Anthropic won the
00:33:06
battle. You know, it's it's problematic to be in this ridiculous fight. I think
00:33:10
it'll be over by midterms when they they jack Hegath out of the place. But also a
00:33:15
potent and Emil too also a potential factor. Anthropic is reportedly considering going public as soon as
00:33:20
October. That is problematic for them. Um so what do you what do you and related a federal judge has put on hold
00:33:27
the $6.2 billion merger between Nextar and Tegno which would create the largest operator of local TV in the country 69%
00:33:34
o over the former 30ome percent amount you're allowed to um bring together. The
00:33:40
judge granted a request from Direct TV arguing the merger violates antitrust laws. A 14-day restraining order has
00:33:46
been issued and a hearing is scheduled for April 7th. Eight attorneys general have filed a separate lawsuit. Um, I'm
00:33:53
going to just play this. Let's listen to what our least favorite FCC chair, Brenda Carr, I'm sorry, Brendan Carr,
00:33:59
uh, had to say at CPAC. >> President Trump took on the fake news media and President Trump is winning.
00:34:05
Look at the results so far. PBS defunded. NPR defunded. Joy Reed gone from MSNBC.
00:34:14
Sleepy Eye Chuck Todd gone. Jim Acasta gone. John Dickerson gone. Coar is leaving. CBS is under new ownership. And
00:34:23
soon enough, CNN is have new ownership as well. >> Boy, this guy is just just not doing his
00:34:27
job. Honestly, it's seriously he's such a suckup to the Trump administration.
00:34:31
He's just explicit about it. And he's also not very smart. He's a [ __ ] Um,
00:34:35
so talk about these these next star the the anthropic thing. It looks like everything as usual Trump does he does
00:34:41
something aggressive and stupid and loses in court, but he still does damage. So talk and then you can talk
00:34:48
about Brenda if you want, but that's up to you. >> Well, I'll go in reverse order. Brenda
00:34:52
Carr has no business in the federal government. You're you're not supposed
00:34:54
to go into the government to use it as a means of attacking your political enemies and freedom of speech.
00:35:00
>> Yep. I mean, just the notion this guy makes gals look thoughtful and that is the directly calling out people
00:35:08
who don't agree with your political views and then weaponizing government to
00:35:11
try and get people whose views you don't agree with off the air. That's I it's
00:35:18
like it's just so blatant. It's okay. So, when we get to appoint an FCC chair,
00:35:25
we're going to go after Hannity. And >> I mean, is that is that where we're
00:35:29
headed? You want us to start blather on this idiotic stuff. I don't care. He
00:35:33
annoys me. >> No. Look, with it's just not qualified to be in government. With respect to
00:35:39
anthropic, most major AI companies have bent the knee to the government and worked with them in any any military
00:35:46
context. I want last year, Google dropped its ethical guidelines that included a list of applications it would
00:35:51
not pursue, including weapons and surveillance, >> but it used to be able to do so without
00:35:56
a problem. >> Is that right? And then they put in guidelines and then they I thought they
00:36:00
were they relaxed their guidelines. >> They did relax them. But I'm saying they
00:36:03
used to be able to say no and nobody had a problem. They just didn't work for
00:36:07
them. That's all. >> Well, that's the whole point of private enterprise. You get to choose your you
00:36:10
can fire your clients. Just the way consumers get to pick companies, companies get to pick their consumers
00:36:15
unless it's based on sexual orientation or race or what have you. >> Meta changed its policy to allow US
00:36:20
government agencies and contractors to access its llama models for national security purposes. Open AI, which once
00:36:27
stated its goal was to benefit humanity as a whole, now has multiple contracts with the military and defense
00:36:33
contractors. And by the way, I don't I I I don't mind when companies like
00:36:38
Palunteer say, "We're going to work with the government on in the defense
00:36:41
department." I get it, but you should also have the right to not to. I don't.
00:36:46
So Anthropic is really they're the only major AI company that has drawn a public
00:36:51
line on autonomous weapons and mass surveillance and now it's the only one being punished for it
00:36:56
>> but it's also winning in court which is good but it's still is it problematic
00:36:59
for the IPO from your perspective? >> Well IPO the the the threat to the IPO
00:37:06
is a bunch of companies say there is there all there are alternatives out there. We appreciate your stand Dario
00:37:14
but for the time being we're not expanding our enterprisewide relationship with you because we don't
00:37:19
want to be put on a list >> right >> uh now having said that having said that
00:37:24
again see above what I believe is the biggest commercial opportunity in decades is um to say no and if you look
00:37:34
at what's happened to Anthropic they're now getting 70 cents on the dollar of
00:37:38
every new AI dollar being allocated to AI from the enterprise. So, it looks as if their ability to say no and get a
00:37:46
court to say, "Yeah, this is [ __ ] This is socialism, cronyism, whatever you want to call it, it looks like it's
00:37:52
it's setting up really I think anthropic right now. I've said that I think
00:37:56
anthropic at this anthropic at this moment is worth more than open AI." What
00:38:02
happens is the mark that people invest at is a bit elucory because if they get a preferred return, meaning no matter
00:38:08
what happens, they get their money out sooner or they're getting a guaranteed
00:38:12
17.5% return, which is what Sam is offering to private equity firms, then that $850 billion number is a bit of a
00:38:21
head fake because as long as I'm getting 17.5% regardless of what it goes public
00:38:25
at, but I would argue right now the an the momentum around anthropic is really strong and the momentum around open AI
00:38:35
is really uh is really weird. >> So you think it won't affect it? What
00:38:38
about the next star thing? Speaking of mor on Brendan, >> well we heard I was actually really
00:38:44
moved. A lot of people pushed back on my comments about how local news is a dying
00:38:47
business and a lot of people push back and said >> I hate to hear this. It's a it's really
00:38:52
important work. And also to be fair, you know, there's a lot of local corruption
00:38:59
that and the only check on it is local news. You know, seven I remember seven on your side.
00:39:04
>> Seven on your side. >> From the hills to the seas to the San Gabriel Mountains. I'm Jerry Dumpy.
00:39:08
>> Yeah. >> Who by the way, Ted Baxter from Mary Tyler Moore was based on supposedly
00:39:12
wasn't supposedly Jerry wasn't very smart. Um but he had broad shoulders and
00:39:16
just made it all the time. I love Dorian Gensler in DC when I was in college. And
00:39:20
they also had Bruce Herschensson and Jim Tunny and Point Counterpoint. And that 27 minutes of real news was bested by
00:39:27
the 3 minutes of two people arguing like crazy. >> If it had been that era, you and I would
00:39:33
have been a good local news team. Like >> I would have predicted hail the size of
00:39:37
of canned tomatoes. I I would have loved being a weatherman. I actually took meteorology my senior year when I was
00:39:43
trying to figure out what the [ __ ] to do with my life my senior year in college.
00:39:47
I thought I could be a weatherman and I took meteorology. >> I thought I was thinking about a
00:39:54
weatherman. >> I was going to go in the military and you were going to be a weatherman and
00:39:57
here I am. >> Perfect. Yeah. David Letterman started as a weatherman. Anyways, but we got
00:40:02
push back saying how important or I got pushed back saying how important local news is. And so I agree they they do a
00:40:10
great job that you know God be with you. Um >> so next star Ta. >> Okay. Sorry. A judge has temporarily
00:40:17
blocked what is it a $6 billion merger? >> Yep. 6 months. >> Between Nextar and Tegna, which would
00:40:22
create the largest operator and uh the number from 30ome% to 69%. >> Yeah. 2/3. Basically, they'll have a
00:40:31
lock on it. And a US District judge uh I think it's in Sacramento granted uh
00:40:36
temporary restraining order siding with Director V who argued Directory V. God, they're still around. Which argued the
00:40:42
merger violates federal antitrust laws and eight eight state attorney generals led by California's Rob Bont filed a
00:40:49
separate lawsuit. And then no uh in the ruling he noted that companies do not contest the merger will increase
00:40:56
NextStar's bargaining leverage to extract higher fees. And what does the ruling mean? It means that Nextar and
00:41:02
Tegna can't integrate options integrate operations for 14 days. A hearing is set
00:41:07
for April 7th to decide whether to issue a preliminary injunction. So like you said, if if the merger goes through,
00:41:12
NextStar would own roughly 260 television stations across the country, reaching about 60% of US households. And
00:41:19
like you said before, it was about 39%. And the deal does violate FCC rules limiting how many stations a single
00:41:26
company can operate. >> Brenda let it through, but go ahead. Well, so as we as we said, look, it's
00:41:34
not a great business to be in unless you're in a swing district where they just basically start trying to advertise
00:41:39
like crazy. Less than half of television stations report generating any profits from news. And last year, about 40% of
00:41:45
surveyed local television stations reported decreasing their news budget. And local television has lost, get this,
00:41:51
about half of its media spending market share since since 2017. The business has
00:41:57
been cut >> in half in the last nine years and as of June last year >> local TV accounted for just 6% of total
00:42:04
media spend. Digital video digital video on the other hand accounts for about 50%. So I look I I don't
00:42:13
I mean it we're going to I think at some point we got to end up with and people
00:42:17
hate the BBC but I like a certain amount of public funding. >> I'm troubled right now. We should talk
00:42:22
about that but later another time. a certain amount of public funding for what I'll call
00:42:28
>> local >> yeah local public news. I think there's like what Craig Newark did I I think is
00:42:34
really important and I I don't know if it's a philanthropist. I don't know if
00:42:37
it's government funding like we do at the BBC here with a house tax. >> I don't think anyone should own 60% of
00:42:43
any industry even >> that does feel uncomfortable even I don't care. They can they can eke out a
00:42:48
good little business from it and and influence things in ways that just and they're also they're the ones that sort
00:42:54
of sucked up to Brenda during the Kimmel thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, I just nobody I don't
00:42:59
want a liberal running 60%. I don't want anybody like I just feel like it needs
00:43:03
to be dispersed. Even if that problem is like a lot of media, it's a bad business
00:43:08
if you don't have monopolies. Um and then it's just an okay business. I I
00:43:13
don't know whatever it's I hope they stop it, but they're not going to. But
00:43:16
nonetheless, I hope then the industry dies and I hope there >> I'm just wonder entrepreneurial local
00:43:22
efforts going on. And there are a lot of them by the way across the country in Mississippi and Baltimore. So let's just
00:43:29
have new stuff and forget these these compromised >> I'm shocked you didn't bring up Vox. The
00:43:34
our companies in play. >> Oh yes. Oh yes. Would you like to discuss that? >> Uh well I I have first off let me say I
00:43:41
have absolutely no insider information here. Um >> and I have a lot. >> You have a lot. I'm on the outside.
00:43:47
>> Supposedly Vox is in discussions with Comcast who's an existing shareholder to
00:43:51
take >> Versent not Comcast >> I'm sorry Versant. Yeah. Which owns
00:43:55
>> like Quasant >> MSNBC and CNBC to take the pods. Then they would sell the digital business and
00:44:02
also sell off NY. And the way I would loosely describe it is the digital stuff is a shitty business getting worse.
00:44:09
Anytime you're dependent upon Amazon, Meta, and Google, eventually they will
00:44:15
screw you and take all the margin. Uh those are difficult businesses. The New York Magazine is a trophy asset. What do
00:44:21
I mean by that? There is some crypto or hedge fund douche that will pay an extraordinary amount of money to own New
00:44:28
York Magazine. >> There's a lot of people. It does well, too. It doesn't It's not like a big
00:44:32
>> It'll trade at an irrational price. >> Yeah, it will. >> Football teams make no money. They got
00:44:37
sold for five, seven, and 10 billion dollars because some guy wants to go from being an overweight tech guy to the
00:44:42
sexiest man in Cleveland by owning the Browns overnight. >> Okay. Can I just say it's also a really
00:44:46
good journalistic enterprise and it does okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to >> Okay. It It won't go for an okay price.
00:44:51
I'm I'm saying it'll go for no It'll go it'll go for an irrational price.
00:44:55
>> It's a nice property. >> The new owner is not going to be into it
00:44:58
for the cash flow or for journalism. The new owner is going to be someone who wants to say I own NY Mag. It's like
00:45:04
going billionaires own football teams. Democrats own media companies. It'll go
00:45:08
for >> So Scott will be buying it soon. >> It's a trophy asset. >> It's a No, I'm sponsoring the Met Gala.
00:45:14
I don't know if you heard. And I'm taking Emily Rodicowski. If that's what
00:45:18
it takes her because you didn't introduce yourself when you were in her presence.
00:45:23
>> I got is I got texted Vanessa Freeman who I think is a wonderful writer that
00:45:26
covers fashion text me. He's like, "Do you have any thoughts on the Met Gale
00:45:30
and Jeff Bezos?" I'm like, tech has way too much money, way too little cool.
00:45:34
Fashion has way too little money, way too much cool. This is an exchange of value.
00:45:38
>> Yes. A good quote. Good. >> This is the most expensive midlife crisis in history. Wouldn't it be easier
00:45:44
for these guys just to buy a Ferrari and start banging their assistance >> or penis enhancement
00:45:48
>> versus sponsoring the medala? But anyways, >> back to New York. Yes, it will sell. We
00:45:52
know this. So, >> so NY Mag will go for an irrational price. >> My arm
00:45:56
>> and then the trophy assets. And I'm not talking my own book here because PropG
00:46:00
is independent. We just sell our ads through Vox, but Pivot is co-owned by Yum, Mei, and Vox.
00:46:05
>> Well, no, they don't own it. We own it and they're our partner for the next
00:46:08
three years. I wish you would do that correctly. People think they own it, but they don't. We do.
00:46:12
>> Okay. We own We own it. Uh, and we can't do anything with it for the next three
00:46:15
years. But anyways, the >> That's okay. >> Uh, those are the assets. podcasting at
00:46:20
Vox and I'll just talk about us uh is growing, you know, 25 plus percent a year, maybe 30% a year. And when they
00:46:29
and when they get scaled, they're amazing businesses because quite frankly, there's just not there's not a
00:46:33
lot of cost involved in these things. And you're seeing and quite frankly, I
00:46:38
also think we're benefiting from Trump to the extent that I think people are
00:46:41
really hungry for thoughtful, I don't want to call it progressive, but a thoughtful push back.
00:46:47
>> We But we also do good. You did Warner, I did Tillis, we do all kinds of manner
00:46:51
of things. >> Anyways, the the the crown jewel is is the Vox Media podcast network. But the
00:46:57
the thing that makes the most sense here, which is what Jim is doing, is that when you have a conglomerate that
00:47:03
doesn't have really obvious synergies, which quite frankly I would argue this
00:47:06
one doesn't. People, the market looks at the shittiest asset in the portfolio,
00:47:10
which is these digital properties, and it assigns that valuation to the entire thing. So the disposition of assets is
00:47:16
accretive to shareholders and Jim has figured that out and he's going to split
00:47:20
up the company and he's going to have a very focused podcast company that tries
00:47:23
to industrialized podcasting and video I would say because podcasts are video now
00:47:28
>> that's that's a great point because effectively what you have is podcasts
00:47:32
are the new TV shows with a lower means of cost of production but I would argue if he sells he'll get an amazing assume
00:47:39
and I don't I again I see above I have no insider information here he'll get an
00:47:43
amazing irrational price for New York Mag. He could sell the digital stuff for a dollar and just be a podcast company
00:47:49
growing 25% a year and it would be worth more. So this it makes all sorts of strategic sense. Comcast is probably
00:47:58
Comcast I think invested >> Comcast did invest. Yes. And so did >> Comcast was the initial investor.
00:48:04
>> Yes. But the investment went over to Versent just so you know. >> Well, okay. The Robert Robert's family
00:48:09
is ready to get some money back. They've been in this thing for 10 years, 11
00:48:14
years. They've probably said, "Okay, we want some money back. You need a
00:48:17
strategy here." >> I think it's going to be very interesting to see.
00:48:20
>> Yeah, we'll see. One of the things that I think reporters have gotten wrong
00:48:22
about it, and I I'm not going to say much more because I do know a lot is you
00:48:26
can't, one of them is like you can pick off these podcasters what's it worth
00:48:29
because you can you actually can't once you have a good and Scott and I went out
00:48:33
in the market and looked at lots of people and there a lot of them were great, but a lot of them don't have
00:48:38
stuff, right? And so this would be attractive to people who it's really hard to sell advertising well. It's
00:48:43
really hard to do distribution well. It's very hard to do production well. And Vox does that well. And there's a
00:48:49
couple of companies like that that do it well too. There's Crooked I think does a
00:48:52
nice job. So it's valuable and it's not as easy to replicate as you think. And
00:48:57
getting picked off is you sign four-year deals everybody. And some of people have
00:49:01
guarantees. We don't happen to have that but uh because we wanted more more revenue to us. Um, but it's harder to do
00:49:08
than you think. And even if you're not satisfied with the advertising sales or
00:49:13
whether you got big or not, it's there. Box is one of the better ones, which is
00:49:18
why we stayed, right? And and and we could certainly sell our own advertising. It's just a slog and it's
00:49:24
hard. It's really hard to do it well. And so it is an attractive asset and there's a lot of people this could plug
00:49:30
into a lot and just use your imagination. And also not just companies but individuals who want platform who
00:49:37
want >> CNBC needs to do something. >> Exactly. That mean you know you're
00:49:42
seeing CNN trying to do podcasting with Jake Tapper and Anderson. >> CNBC is local news with with sleeveless
00:49:48
dresses and Andrew Ross Orin. I mean plus >> they're going to be your new friends.
00:49:51
>> By the way, why why does Joe Karen get sleeves and none of the other people do?
00:49:55
Um anyways the >> we do not want to see that. Mark >> Brian Roberts and Comcast they are very
00:50:01
>> it's not Comcast. You have to say Vers. No, it's not whatever. It's not the They
00:50:06
own only a certain portion of it as a public company. It's similar. There's
00:50:10
others anyway. It would help Vers, which also needs to be innovative. So, in that
00:50:14
regard, but there's lots of others. >> MSNBC, MS Now, I'm sorry, MS Now, MS Now and
00:50:21
CNBC need a growth strategy. They're they are in businesses in structural decline. The average age of M MS Now
00:50:28
viewer I think is 64. CNBC at 67. The average age of a podcast listener is 34. The average age of pivot listener is 42.
00:50:37
They need an audience that isn't is going to be around for another 5 or 10 years that buys [ __ ] that is in the
00:50:43
midst of buying homes, having kids, making investments, buying mutual funds. And they're smart people. So they do I
00:50:50
mean CNBC does an amazing job. They have some of the finest financial journalists
00:50:54
in the world. MS now has some of the most talented people in the world. So, but what they need is is they need a
00:51:00
structural growth engine. They need to find platforms that are growing and are attracting
00:51:04
>> audience. And they've been trying, but they're they've definitely been trying
00:51:07
more than other. >> You know who probably inspired this whole idea? >> Me. What? No.
00:51:11
>> Other than you is Nicole Wallace. >> Yes. Because Nicole, who's got a very
00:51:17
popular show on MS Now, started a podcast that immediately >> went to the top of the I would bet
00:51:23
Nicole's podcast is probably doing seven or 10 million a year in ad revenue,
00:51:27
which doesn't seem like a lot, but I bet six or seven of that is go close to the
00:51:31
bottom line. So, you got to think the folks at Versant, Comcast, Roberts, Joey Bag of Donuts, HBO Now, whatever you
00:51:38
want to call it, it have said >> they got to be looking, they've got to
00:51:41
be looking, >> they need to be in this business. Look at the charts. You and I are near the
00:51:45
top as in Pivot. Uh individually, both of us are. All your market stuff are. Um lots of lots of Vox podcasts are near
00:51:54
the top and over all the the network ones. We're often we're always higher
00:51:59
than all of them. So anyway, it's interesting. It's an interesting time.
00:52:01
We'll see what happens. And we're nothing at all. Nothing at all might happen. We'll see. Anyway, um uh it
00:52:07
makes sense to us though. Uh uh we'll go on a quick break and when we come back
00:52:12
the White House launches an app. >> Support for Pivot comes from Anthropic.
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00:53:16
in today's episode. cloud.ai/pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. The
00:53:24
White House just launched an official app for iPhone and Android featuring press releases and affordability
00:53:28
tracker, and an ICE tip line. Of course, the Trump administration says the app offers a direct line to the White House,
00:53:34
letting people text the president sign up for newsletters. But those features just link to White House contacts forms
00:53:38
that are already there, letting the administration access users personal information and some additional privacy
00:53:43
concerns. People digging into the app, it took 5 seconds, found that it's tracking GPS location data every four
00:53:49
and a half minutes. It's a privacy nightmare. Do not download it. Um, just very briefly, then we'll get to Winston
00:53:56
Fails. I would rather give my ex-wife access to my text message history than sign up for I mean who is [ __ ] stupid
00:54:06
enough to do that? >> I know it's not trustworthy. Don't sign up for it.
00:54:10
>> You think? >> No, but I mean I wouldn't mind that the White House has an app. It's just this
00:54:14
one is a People were like, "Okay, a company doing this, you'd call them
00:54:18
scummy. The government doing this to its citizens." The same people that are
00:54:22
demanding voter roles >> that are that are that are targeting people that are hiring Palunteer to
00:54:29
surveil people and you want to sign up for their app >> don't and it's really sad because the
00:54:33
White House should have direct communication with people but to help people not to take advantage of their
00:54:38
[ __ ] information. These people like literally but someone who does apps is like I I would think this is scummy for
00:54:45
a scummy person, right? Not our federal friaking government. Very typical of the
00:54:49
Trump administration. Do not get it. do not get it. And also an ice tip line. What kind of person are you that you tip
00:54:55
on people? Gh, >> as my grand my grandfather was, you know, a mob mob adjacent, I would say.
00:55:02
Not really in the mob. Um, but like I hate a a rat. A rat a rat. Like, you know, it's fine to say see something,
00:55:10
say something. You see a bag in an airport, yes, report it. But reporting on your fellow citizens is if they're
00:55:16
not criminals, if they're not criminals, [ __ ] you for doing that. You terrible
00:55:20
people. Anyway, >> yeah, >> one more quick break. We'll be back for
00:55:24
wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I shall
00:55:29
start. >> You go. >> Um, I, you know, I really, I have to say I really like Slope. I didn't think I'd
00:55:37
say that, but I do. I'm a Manhattan girl, but I really enjoy uh being there and uh spending time there. I like going
00:55:43
to different places and but I mostly want to say the win is Scott Gallery for being such a good landlord to me when I
00:55:48
was in New York. >> That's nice. Thank you. He's been generous and I love his apartment. It's
00:55:52
wonderful. I I love being in like a lot I feel really good about cities and I feel like New York feels great.
00:55:58
Washington does feel great. I'm going to San Francisco soon. I just I'm very uh
00:56:03
I'm very up on cities these days and like kind of the creativity that you see
00:56:07
everywhere um in in them and just kind of just a I just love a melting pot of people. I really do. Um so I really I
00:56:14
I'm I'm winds are cities again. melting poted $3,000 a square foot. >> Yeah. Who's melting?
00:56:21
>> No way. But I'm just saying I went all over. I went all over the city and and
00:56:26
it just was I just love a city. I just love a city. >> I so could have predicted you to end up
00:56:29
in Brooklyn. >> I No, I would have done >> I would have done the West Village, but
00:56:35
Amanda really likes that area and she's friends there. And I get it. And I get
00:56:39
it. I get it. I get it. Anyway, um >> Oh god, you're going to have Birkenstocks.
00:56:44
>> No, I'm not. I never wear Birkenstocks. This is never happening. No, I wear
00:56:48
Vans. Let's be clear. All right. And my fail is um Oh, God, there's so many. But
00:56:52
I think the worst one is >> I mean, I was going between Melania Trump's robot for teaching children,
00:56:58
which I'm like, worst idea ever. I'm sorry. Like, I don't mind robots folding
00:57:02
laundry, and I'm sure we'll have them, and I don't mind them delivering things.
00:57:06
Fine, whatever. But teaching children should be done by people with help from technology. That is fine. But this
00:57:13
personalized educators for American children and her walking out there. I couldn't tell which was the robot and
00:57:17
which was Melania, which is a typical joke, but honestly, what an idiot. I She's really What an amoronic thing to
00:57:25
to feature at the White House is a featured stage and to stage the idea and insulting teachers. I I my my kid just
00:57:33
got in, my little kid got into the same public school Claire is in for next year. And I went walked by the teacher
00:57:39
and I said, "Alex, I mean Saul got in um to the class and she was like, "Yay,
00:57:45
go." And I just love I just I love the teachers. They really are dedicated and
00:57:48
committed, the ones we have dealt with, especially in public schools, but all the schools that the kids have been to.
00:57:53
Um and so I just hated that that thing. And the second one was Trump signing the
00:57:57
US currency. It was always been a Treasury Secretary person. Just another grotesque like look at me, mommy didn't
00:58:05
hug me moment. So just gross. Just just like I can't wait till we get rid of all
00:58:11
this stuff off all all the gold in the office which has gotten out of control and the whole thing. I can't wait we
00:58:16
tear it all down. Every bit of it. So including getting his signature off the dollar when when he puts it on. Anyway,
00:58:22
Scott, >> I like those. Uh so my win is and you mentioned this. I watched Louis
00:58:28
Thorough's documentary The Manosphere and I I really I it was very illuminating for me. Um, and a few of
00:58:35
the takeaways, uh, first off, these quoteunquote, you know, icons of the manosphere, these
00:58:42
podcasters or the folks portrayed, >> they're grifters and they don't even buy
00:58:48
the things that they don't even buy into the ideology. There's always a crypto
00:58:52
scam or a trading platform. >> Yeah. >> Or or, you know, buy their course or
00:58:59
whatever it is. Um, and they themselves, this is not about ideology for them. This is just this is just purely a
00:59:07
grift. And >> and I think a decent >> they're selling ideology as a product.
00:59:12
>> Well, and they're also trying to sell masculinity and what I would argue is a
00:59:16
decent proxy for or a decent query for masculinity is simple and ask yourself a question. Are you optimizing for
00:59:23
attention or for service? And these guys are optimizing for attention. Full stop.
00:59:28
And the other takeaway is I thought that uh Louie really did a good job of exemplifying that
00:59:37
um strength is more about he's this slight guy who's a bit awkward and he
00:59:44
owns the room when he's in it. >> He does >> because he's quiet. He asks hard
00:59:49
questions. >> He's not mean. And the other thing, the takeaway I think for younger men
00:59:55
watching that is it's okay to occasionally absorb a blow. And that, and I didn't learn this until I was
01:00:01
older, I thought if someone was rude to me or coming off in traffic, I had to restore equilibri equilibrium to the
01:00:05
universe and get back in their face. And at one point in the documentary, his subjects were making fun of him, mocking
01:00:11
him, and he just takes it. It's like, I got a job to do. The other thing that
01:00:15
kind of rattled me was, and I think this is true of the manosphere, and it's a lesson for the
01:00:21
left, I don't think I think a lot of the young men who are quoteunquote in the
01:00:26
manosphere or drawn to these these these men or these I don't know what you would
01:00:31
call them grifters. It's not that they necessarily buy into this [ __ ] um ideology of dominating women or I
01:00:42
mean actually some of these some of the stuff it actually starts off fine. Be fit, take control, be aggressive,
01:00:48
initiate your life, manifest success and then it comes off the [ __ ] rails and it's usually about just dominating women
01:00:54
and being a total misogynist. >> But what you found, I thought what was most interesting is when they
01:00:59
interviewed some of the acolytes, the people who are really drawn to these people.
01:01:03
>> Inspiration. It's really upsetting because what these kids, what these
01:01:08
boys, and they aren't boys, what they're looking for, >> Yeah. >> they're not, it's not that they're drawn
01:01:13
to this ideology or this political viewpoint. It's not even they're drawn,
01:01:16
I I don't think, to the misogyny. >> They're drawn and they're so desperate
01:01:22
for community. >> They are. >> They want a reason to hang out with and
01:01:26
have a common bond >> among other young men. >> Yeah. They want to get better. They want
01:01:31
to feel better about themselves. They want to improve This is where the left has failed.
01:01:35
>> Mhm. I agree. >> What orthodoxy or ideology on the left creates a community for young men.
01:01:41
>> Yeah. What is it? >> You you said that early on when commisers didn't have stuff on her thing
01:01:45
about men. I don't think they >> tell young men they're the problem.
01:01:47
That's not a community to rally around. >> And pointed that out. And I think I
01:01:51
think what we have to do is like feel like we're in it. Like I I the questions
01:01:56
I got, you know, I have expert questions. One was for the guy who did adolescence, Jack. And then I had
01:02:00
Gretchen Whitmer ask a question which who's been doing a lot of man boy stuff
01:02:04
in in the state because she understands it and so you're right. You're 100%
01:02:10
right. Okay. >> Anyways, my win I thought Louis Thorough documentary the manifest I found it so
01:02:14
rattling. I thought these young men just so sad. One one of the young men he was
01:02:19
talking about his brother took his own life. You could tell these young men are just so desperate to find community and
01:02:25
a sense of safety and and other people who it's not even the ideology they're
01:02:30
bonding over. They're just bonding. Anyways, uh that's my win. My fail is
01:02:35
that I can I believe that the Democrats continue to show a lack of creativity and leadership around a series of
01:02:41
incentives of what they are going to do and spell it out very specifically what they are going to do when they get
01:02:46
control of the House and potentially the Senate. And it should be something along
01:02:49
the lines of the following. Everyone is saying, "Oh, we can't go after these
01:02:54
individuals despite their crimes because they're just going to get a pardon."
01:02:57
[ __ ] If you look at the law, once once Democrats control of Congress and Senate, they have subpoena power. Once
01:03:06
they get subpoena power, they should go after specific individuals for crimes. And then they should coordinate, and
01:03:11
this is the key, with the attorney generals in blue states and start going after these individuals who are no
01:03:17
longer protected by federal pardons. So, for example, the attorney general in California might decide that if a trade
01:03:25
on crypto went through and that family members of the Trump administration were illegally manipulating markets or
01:03:32
engaging in any sort of insider trading that California AG can coordinate with Democratic representatives to bring a
01:03:39
case against them and that case is not subject to the protections of a federal pardon. They need to sooner rather than
01:03:45
later put these people on notice that if you are murdering people uh under the oposes of a secret police, if you are
01:03:53
lying under oath, if you are engaged in crypto scams, if you have companies that
01:03:57
overnight get contracts from the military violating the imalments clause, be clear,
01:04:02
>> it's crazy. and a a a candidate for president or a senator or Democratic
01:04:07
representatives should outline specific cases they are going to bring against specific individuals in coordination
01:04:14
with specific AGS in specific states that are not protected by a presidential pardon.
01:04:21
>> Yeah. >> And and who's done that? >> Mhm. >> [ __ ] nobody.
01:04:26
>> Some of these attorney generals are working at it. Scott, I think that's not
01:04:28
fair. I think they are preparing them. >> We got close >> Yeah. >> with what was her name? Fanny Hill.
01:04:33
Fanny >> in Georgia, the Fulton County. >> Yep. >> But unfortunately, she like Chrissy
01:04:38
Gnome was [ __ ] her number two, which blew that case apart. >> Yes, that did.
01:04:43
>> But there is real opportunity here. >> There is. I think there's more. I'm
01:04:47
being contacted by a lot of I think attorney generals are really starting to coordinate quite a bit on around these
01:04:51
things. And one of the things that's critical for all of you people waiting for a Trump pardon. Remember, he's not
01:04:56
going to give it to you till the very end because he's loyal only to himself.
01:04:59
And he's going to extract something from you. And that might be too late. So
01:05:03
>> I'm saying take that off the table. >> Yeah. No, I know. But I'm just saying it
01:05:06
just I think a lot of people are gonna get >> if the AG in Minnesota is saying you
01:05:10
committed manslaughter and you lied under oath and as a result we have an ICU nurse who was who is buried.
01:05:18
We can come after you. Presidential pardon or not. And these are the people we're coming for. And these are the
01:05:24
subpoenas we're issuing when we're in control of Congress and the Senate.
01:05:26
Okay. Anyways, that's my that's my fail is I think the Democrats need to start
01:05:30
punching back more creatively and more aggressively. >> I like it. I like it a lot. Okay, we
01:05:35
want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever is on your mind. Go to
01:05:39
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe from the
01:05:45
latest episode of On with Cara Swisser, I spoke with North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis. We talked about his
01:05:51
upcoming retirement and how he can more freely criticize the Trump administration right now. Let's listen
01:05:55
to a clip. I have expressed my concern in the past. I no longer have to worry about what language I use to communicate
01:06:04
it because I don't have to go through the cost. >> You can be clearer than some of your
01:06:08
colleagues because I have to tell you when I talk to some of your colleagues off the record, the Republicans, they're
01:06:12
much more critical of Trump or >> of course. But look, I mean, you know what all martyrs have in common? What?
01:06:17
>> They're dead. And in politics, that's losing elections. >> Very smart guy. Very interesting guy.
01:06:23
But some people call him too late. Tell us that he's done he always thought this
01:06:27
and didn't say it. Other people think, well, good for him. And he is actually
01:06:30
holding up uh the the the Fed chair thing because of the [ __ ] uh thing and he's holding up a lot of stuff. He
01:06:37
helped get Christy Gnome out of there. So I'm you know whatever. My friend Neil
01:06:41
Brennan, he was he said something very >> cogent and he said despite the temptation to say you idiots, we told
01:06:47
you so or whatever, >> we need to be really good at welcoming anybody, right? And praising anybody.
01:06:53
>> Yeah, >> I agree. I agree. I think he's been he's going to be very effective through
01:06:57
January of getting stuff cuz he's he's he's a very complex politician who's
01:07:02
very behind uh gay marriage and stuff like it's he's a complex conservative
01:07:06
and that's what we should. >> When you say behind gay marriage, you mean against it? No, for he helped pass
01:07:11
it when he was in North Carolina or something of protections. He's he's much
01:07:14
more um complex as a as a politician and we should allow our conservative and liberal politicians to be complex and
01:07:22
maybe not fully be on board with the purity test on either side. Agreed. >> Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:07:27
listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.