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This isn't a story about Mitch McConnell. It's a story about American political system that refuses to make
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room for the next generation. >> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser. >> And I'm Scott Galloway. >> Scott, um, I want to understand why you
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took Ed to the game and not me. Explain where you were. I'm teasing. I don't >> Well, it's cuz I like Ed more.
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>> I figured. Yeah. Yeah. explain where you were. >> No interest in World Cup. >> I would have gone, had I been asked, I
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would have considered it. In any case, >> uh, do you want to go on Wednesday to Atlanta?
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>> No, I don't. >> Well, okay. So, don't give me [ __ ] then. >> Do you want to fly me there? Well, I,
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you know, last minute I can't get places like you can. Um, explain to me what you
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did to tell people where you were, cuz you were quite, you look the happiest I've ever seen you, I have to tell you.
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>> I might have been the happiest I've ever or I've been in a while. Look, I have no
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interest in sports. I decided consciously I used to play a lot of golf cuz when you're in your 30s and trying
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to run a strategy firm and you're basically renting your brain to old white guys known as CEOs, you have to
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play golf every weekend, >> right? >> That's the only Anyways, and I decided about 20 years ago I was going to pour
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all the time I was spending on golf into fitness. And I played sports in college,
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but I I have no interest in professional sports. I think it's mostly a waste of time. Every four years I go crazy for
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the World Cup. And this one has been the most special of the three because the way I describe the World Cup right now
00:01:32
is it's a bunch of cousins who just love each other and their parents are out of
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town and they're doing a sleepover despite the fact their parents don't get along.
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>> Oh, okay. >> And I think when you're sitting in that stadium and I I went through a lot of
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logistics and costs to get from Italy to Hard Rock Stadium in Miami and find seats,
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>> Miami. I didn't know where that was. Yeah, Miami. >> It was Miami. It was me, my two friends,
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and my youngest. But when you're in that stadium and 70,000 people are are singing in harmony, Sweet Caroline,
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which is associated with Team England, and then we all, including English fans, >> was it Hey Jude,
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>> Sweet Caroline, beginning of the game, Hey Jude at the end in honor of Jude Bellingham, which is in my opinion the
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the man of the tournament. But >> and then everyone, including the Team England fans start rowing, which is a
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Norwegian signature. Yeah. >> And when Norwegian Airlines, living up to their bet, changed their logo to
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British Airways. >> Yeah. It was cute. Yeah. >> It's like all of the goodwill that is
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resident in the world appears to be bubbling up in the World Cup. >> Also, good men. I mean, the the
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Norwegian guys. I miss I'm sorry they didn't win cuz I liked his whole act, his whole manly act.
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>> Bellingham. Every time he leaves the field, he he he honors his mother. >> Talking about mental health. I mean,
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I'll do this I'll do a longer diet tribe on this next week, but I struggle as a lot of people do. You know, it's like
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healthy masculinity. It's like porn. We we we know it. We just don't know how to
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describe it. >> What's happening in the World Cup right now, and you referenced this with the
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Knicks, is pretty damn close. >> Yep. It is. No, 100% same thing. >> Strength, generosity, understanding how
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to lose, >> you know, talking about mental health, talking about the privilege, >> male hugging.
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>> Yeah. affection with each other, getting along with their enemies, you know, it
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just >> it's just cooperation, excellence. >> You know what I call? I call it I call
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it unugly. It's not there's not a bit of ugliness in it. I have to say I can >> 100%
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>> unugly. There's so much ugliness and we'll be talking about a lot of that today. But um I just I it's really
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lovely. I mean I just I'm only going to miss the Norwegian. That's all. I just think he's what's his name? Harland or
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>> Holland? >> Holland. Yeah. He's amazing. I have to say he looks like he could kill like
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he'd be the person on the on the bad end of a mace if you were living in the medieval times, but he actually is just
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like so adorable in in in really lovely ways. Just so kind, like just a kind large man, which
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is really a great juxaposition, I think. Anyway, I'm glad you had a good time. So, you're going to the semis and the
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finals. >> I don't know if I can get to the semis. I'm going to try. I'm trying to see if I
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can just work it out logistically because it's in Atlanta, but I'm going to the final. But you're talking about
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Holland who plays for Man City. >> Yeah. >> When you're watching, if you know anything about football and you're
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rooting for the other team, you can't relax cuz this guy's like a great white shark.
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>> He also hangs around and looks like he's doing nothing and all of a sudden he
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likes >> Yeah. He looks bored. >> Yeah. And then he does. He's like a shark. >> Fantastic. And we have our own guy on
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team England, this enormous guy who was able to neutralize him. But yeah, it's just f it's just fantastic. I'm I'm
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enjoying it so much. >> I'm glad. You looked very happy. You looked very happy. >> Had a great time. Great time.
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>> Relaxed is what I I I perceived it. I perceived it. Um there's some other not
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so happy things going on. We're going to get to the um the uh attorney general's
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12 attorney generals suing uh par for the against the Paramount merger which just dropped. We're going to talk later
00:05:03
and I'm going to talk to attorney general um of California Rob Bont later. Um, but we first have to start with uh
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South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham uh died from a tear in his aorta. Apparently, according to
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preliminary findings from the DC medical examiner, Graham passed away on Saturday
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night at age 71. President Trump spoke to Graham Hours where he died, noting he said he was tired but wanted to pass the
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Save America. Of course, I'm sure he did not say that. The scrambled to replace Graham in the Senate and the short-term
00:05:31
and longterm is underway. We're recording this before the South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster announces who is
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appointed the seat. that's happening in a few hours. Trump wants it to be Graham's sister. Uh Nancy Mace says
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she's not pursuing an interim appointment, but would be remiss if she didn't look at running for the seat.
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Secretary, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson is also reportedly fielding calls to run. They can't really use House
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people because the House is such a thin margin if they if they pull someone from
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the House. Um it was pretty shocking because everyone was sort of focused on Mitch McConnell who offered proof of
00:06:01
life on Sunday after weeks of speculation of his whereabouts and health. McConnell released a statement
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in a photo where he's holding >> Isn't that proof of near death? >> Uh, a lot of people don't think that
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photo is they think it's AI. I would tend to agree. I've talked to a lot of experts. Um, he said a fall led to his
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hospitalization. He's in rehab and won't be returning to the Senate quite yet. Uh, as you say, biology is undefeated,
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but there's still so much sus around this guy like what's happening with him. um he's not running for reelection and
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they I think he wants to stay around at least so that uh the um the Democrat >> Republicans get to appoint as opposed to
00:06:36
the Democratic governor. >> No, no, the Democratic governor has to appoint a Republican. The Democratic
00:06:41
governor gets to appoint. It's just has to be a Republican as they pass this law
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that now the Democratic governor might push back on and say it's uncons by the way FYI, which would be
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something. Um, so I don't think, you know, it's just what a mess. I mean, obviously Lindsey Graham was not that
00:06:59
old. 71 is not old. My I talked to Jeff. I had dinner. I'm in San Francisco with
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Jeff last night and he said, you know, he apparently had some chest pains and was ignoring them for a little bit and
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or had some discomfort and this is something that just happens. It's what John Ritter died of. Um, and certainly
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if he had had been diagnosed, they could have done something about it. But a lot
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of people, this can kill people really quickly. I have a lot of thoughts here. The look, the the internet's gone crazy
00:07:28
with conspiracy theories. So, I have what technically qualifies as a conspiracy theory because it's in the
00:07:33
fringe now cuz social media can't make money off of it. And that is a 71-year-old male who was out of shape
00:07:40
traveling and under constant stress had a heart attack and died. I I just don't that's my theory here. And and the
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larger point, and I'm going to come back later in the show to Senator Graham when
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we do wins and fails, but the larger point is that one of the things that really curses the world right now and
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causes chaos, oppression, authoritarianism is can be reverse engineered to really
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old people that won't [ __ ] leave. >> 71 old. I mean, I wouldn't necess It is okay.
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>> You could to fly to Ukraine and back and understand Tik Tok. I mean, >> for God's sakes, go home.
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>> Yeah. He didn't want to come. >> The average age of the of an American is 38. The average age of our senator is
00:08:33
65. Watching Mitch McConnell freeze up or talking about a 71-year-old man have a heart attack as if it was clearly done
00:08:40
by the Russians or the Iranians. This isn't a story about Mitch McConnell, >> right? That for people who don't know,
00:08:45
one of the conspiracy theories was Russia. It's a story about American political system that refuses to make
00:08:51
room for the next generation. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If we got rid of tomorrow, if we decided
00:08:57
globally anyone over the age of 70 has to announce a retirement, oh, you'd get rid of Netanyahu, you'd get rid of
00:09:03
Putin, you'd get rid of Trump, you'd get rid of Biden, you'd get rid of these people on the Supreme Court that aren't
00:09:09
even writing their own briefs anymore. They're just political ideologues. I work with the best faculty in the world.
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A third of them should be put on an ice flow. So what? Like 65 you're saying, right? Because the 65 is for the New
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York Times, 65 is for generals, I think. I'm just curious. I'm curious what you're
00:09:25
>> 727. Well, I want to find a group of neurologists. Mitt Mitt Romney had it perfectly. The guy looks 50 years old.
00:09:32
He looks like an Abberrombian Fitch model, but he's about to turn 80. And he cited that by the time you're 80, key
00:09:38
parts of your brain have shrunk by 10 or 15%. We don't need presidents falling asleep in briefings. Do you remember the
00:09:45
the same [ __ ] I I watched I I get served the clips because I know it outraged me of that the CNN show I feel
00:09:50
stupider with Abby Phillips. Basically the pattern is they figured out they have a cheat code for massive
00:09:55
viewership. They have essentially the the chief propagandist for the Trump administration say something just
00:10:01
ridiculous and then a bunch of off off Broadway progressives go [ __ ] insane and they get I think it's the highest
00:10:07
rated show >> on on CNN. They have Scott Jennings say something ridiculous, right? And
00:10:11
incendiary and stupid. He said I had a conversation with him. Scott, you are lying. The same conversation I bet he
00:10:19
had with Senator McConnell is the conversation I had with my father in hospice the last 14 months. And that is
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I would say something and my dad didn't know who I was or where he was. It is so
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think it just think about it logically for God's sakes. all this tumult, all this doubt. If he managed to, if he
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could, if they were capable of pumping him full of stimulants and just getting a 15 second voice recording honoring his
00:10:45
friend, Senator Graham's pass. >> He didn't say anything. They're very close. That was unusual
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>> because clearly he can't. Cara, >> yeah, the picture was odd. I have to say, let's discuss the the the uh I
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would agree. I would agree. I I I think the issue is is was astonishing and some
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of it funny. I hate to say it was all the memes and everything around Lindsey Graham. Obviously, uh there's a lot of
00:11:05
talk about his sexual his sexuality. Um which was, you know, people are like, "It's too mean." I'm like, "Oh, just let
00:11:13
the world do what it wants." But the the the memeing that's going on here and then the conspiracy theories are really
00:11:19
heavy. Like they're somewhat heavy with Graham about whether he was killed by the Russians or poisoned or this and
00:11:25
that. And then um McConnell, forget it. It's now like open. It's really fascinating. I'm curious if you think
00:11:32
it's a good thing or a bad thing like these these these the memeology and those the the conspiracy theories and
00:11:39
everyone looks at the picture and is where is his thumb? Is it really an AI? Is it AI generated? Like it really just
00:11:46
nobody believes anything. Nobody believes and even the believable stuff is unbelievable if that makes sense.
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Unfortunately, we've attached a profit incentive to conspiracy theories, which feels harmless and fun, but it
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essentially it attacks our institutions that there's no one that's believable anymore and we don't defer to our
00:12:03
institutions. And so I I think it there's an underlying because the problem with these conspiracy theories
00:12:10
that oh mRNA vaccines alter your DNA is that if you see it enough because it's novel and the algorithms elevate it
00:12:16
beyond its organic reach, you should have the right to say conspiracy theories. The issue is should social
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media companies that have a profit incentive to to elevate it beyond its organic reach, you then normalize
00:12:31
conspiracy theories, they then become less outrageous and then they become self-evident.
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And that's the problems that a lot of these fringe theories become normalized when they ordinarily wouldn't have
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because we've attached a profit incentive to to conspiracy theories. >> That's a really good point. The broader
00:12:49
point about Mitch McConnell into Senator Graham is that this isn't about in these
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memes, it's not about mocking an aging man. Aging comes for all of us. The failure belongs to us, the people and
00:13:01
the institutions that keep insisting that octogenarians should be making the highest stakes decisions in the world.
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>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And leadership in both parties increasingly resembles the board of a
00:13:13
company that forgot that succession planning is part of the damn job. And every CEO is told in their final
00:13:20
responsibility that they need to leave the company stronger than they found it. And we fire CEOs who don't build a bench
00:13:27
and announce their retirement at some point. And in politics, we've somehow decided the goal is to die with your
00:13:34
hand on the steering wheel and take people out with you. And experience matters. Wisdom matters. But so does
00:13:41
energy, cognitive sharpness, the willingness to pass a game here. It's a game to keep him in place even if he's
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weekend at Bernie's, right? Even if he's like >> That's why we need age limits, Cara.
00:13:52
>> That's right. No, I agree. But that's what's happening here because the the the the numbers, he's not going to be
00:13:57
able to pass the SE act now because it's so tight, right? And it's just nothing's
00:14:02
going anywhere. And that's that's what they're doing here is trying to like game the system whether not letting
00:14:07
Basher do his job or whatever. And in the House, the same thing. And you know, it's all gaming. It's all gaming. And it
00:14:14
doesn't matter if you have to prop up an old man. Um but and you do start to believe it. I looked at that picture and
00:14:19
I was like looks funny. He looks like he had a facelift. They're right. Like but
00:14:23
then is it true or is it not true? >> I'm going to be clear. I'm part of the tin foil. I think it's fake.
00:14:27
>> Okay. I I don't know. I don't I I just I definitely am like huh sus. You know, I
00:14:32
actually like I literally was like texted Harvey Lean and said the the republic is up to you to get in that
00:14:38
hotel. I mean that hospital room and get us a real video of something. I mean, I
00:14:44
can't believe no reporters can figure this out and we have to rely on Scott Jennings. I agree.
00:14:48
>> Let me just ask you an honest question. Let me ask you just a question >> that would require any semblance of
00:14:54
logic. Given the tomal, given the doubt, given the >> given the power, if he just recorded not
00:15:01
even a video, a 10second voice memo, >> it's gone too far. He's got to be wheeled out in front of him.
00:15:08
>> It would it would solve so many of his and the Republican party's problems. And
00:15:12
clearly can't even do that, >> right? I would agree with you. I think if they wheeled him out in front of or
00:15:19
in the hospital and he said, "I'm really sick and I'm trying to get better." And
00:15:22
that would solve it. But they won't do it. You're right. Because they can't do it. That's that's exactly right
00:15:27
>> to me. Let me let me just wrap up because I'm I'm I I do think that if the world would be such a better place if
00:15:33
Netanyahu, Trump, Ginsburgg, Biden had been forced to leave at a certain point, >> right? And the thing about America is we
00:15:42
don't have an age problem. We have an incentive problem. We reward incumbency, celebrity, and fundraising over renewal.
00:15:50
And the result is a government that too often looks like it's being run by people who remember the Cold War better
00:15:55
than they understand AI. >> Yeah. >> And if you if you if you want democracy, you have to believe in the importance of
00:16:03
turnover. The best leaders don't prove their greatness by never leaving. They prove it by building a bench that's
00:16:10
ready to replace them enough. Think about how much for God's sakes. What would the world
00:16:17
look like if we had more Zalinski and I'll even go mom Donnie and we had more youth for God's sakes.
00:16:26
>> I would agree. And then they could duke it out, right? Then they could duke it
00:16:29
out. That's >> let them have at it. Let them have their conspiracy theories. >> I agree. Uh speaking I'm going to move
00:16:34
on because we have to go to that. that Graham Platner has speaking of young trying to get a young vibrant person and
00:16:39
has officially withdrawn from the main Senate race following the accusation of sexual assault among other troubling
00:16:44
revelations from his past which we had discussed. We did not there was a point where he said if it goes further than
00:16:50
this then forget it but Democrats have July to and that's what the allegations are. Democrats have until July 27th to
00:16:56
name a replacement to challenge Republican Senator Susan Collins. Actually the the Democrats chances went
00:17:02
up with Platner coming out cuz he was declining. The main Democratic party will hold a convention on July 25th uh
00:17:08
where candidates can make their case to delegates for a nomination. Let's hear a
00:17:12
clip we got from Axios reporter Holly uh Otterbine who's been covering the race and how things stand. Now that Graham
00:17:18
Platner is finally out of the race, Maine Democrats are scrambling to find a new nominee by the end of the month. A
00:17:25
whole boatload of candidates have jumped in, about a half dozen, and most of them
00:17:28
either ran for governor or Senate earlier this year and lost. One of my biggest takeaways from the race as it's
00:17:35
been shaping up so far is that Graham Platner is still having an enormous influence on the race. Now granted,
00:17:42
nobody wants his endorsement, but a lot of them, almost all of them to a person,
00:17:46
sound like Graham Platner. One of the biggest examples um that I can point to is a man named Dan Cleban. He's a
00:17:53
brewer. He's actually centering his campaign around voting against Chuck Schumer uh for majority leader, a
00:18:00
promise to do that. So, I think that this shows that the main Democratic candidates have really internalized that
00:18:06
the Democratic base is furious. They're angry at the economy. They're angry at Trump. They're angry at their party. And
00:18:13
that that's what this platiner mania was all about and that in order to win, that's what they've got to replicate.
00:18:19
>> Oh, that's very smart. Um, what do you what obviously we were wrong about Grand
00:18:23
Plat. We were we basically Scott and I said that the ma the main voters should decide this, but if more came out, it
00:18:29
would be a real problem. That's exactly what happened in this scenario. How what
00:18:33
what it matters because it is about control of the Senate and they have a very good chance of grabbing this seat
00:18:38
if they do it right. >> Look, I don't as Democrats do, we're more interested in self flatulation than
00:18:44
actually figuring out how to take control of the Senate. And I would argue I would argue the Democrats largely got
00:18:49
it right here when he had a Tottenham tattoo came to light. As a Jew, I found that really troubling. Having said that,
00:18:57
a guy in the military dodging IEDs had a made a mistake and I saw no pattern of anti-semitism. I wasn't willing to
00:19:04
disqualify him and say he's an anti-semite cuz I saw I saw an errant mistake. I didn't see a pattern. Then a
00:19:12
woman said he was physical with her. Very disturbing. She in the middle of a campaign was a Republican operative. All
00:19:20
right. I think it was fair to say there's an asterisk around those that accusation. When I was on holiday last
00:19:27
week and I heard about this this additional accusation of rape, I immediately went to YouTube and watched
00:19:33
it within about 5 seconds. I'm like, she's telling the truth. He needs to drop out immediately. I mean, it was
00:19:39
just quite frankly, it was just and he did. Or he or let me put it this way. He's still trying to hold on to his
00:19:45
power. Basically, Democrats now are saying, "How do we find Graham Platiner minus the rape part?" They're all trying
00:19:50
to find a rough, you know, like a, you know, an oyster brewer, you know, whatever.
00:19:55
>> One of them is a logger. I think one's a logger that does, you know, that drinks
00:19:59
paps blue ribbon or whatever. >> But now what we're doing is the following. We're instead of f instead of
00:20:07
focusing our energy on how we actually hold ourselves to a higher standard and will exit and offramp people like this.
00:20:16
Again, I'll go back to my favorite show on CNN. Scott Jennings said they asked him, "Do you think Platner should have
00:20:23
resigned from the race?" And he said, "If there's corroborating evidence around this type of activity, sure you
00:20:28
should resign." Okay. The ultimate corroboration in our society around situations that have dramatic gray
00:20:37
areas, context, nuance, you weren't there, is the following. We put them in front of 12 people from different
00:20:45
backgrounds, different viewpoints. We let the prosecution have input into the w to the jurors. We have the defense.
00:20:53
The president of the United States was found civily liable for sexual abuse. So the notion that Democrats are spending
00:21:03
more energy with this weird self-examination as opposed to focusing their energy on
00:21:10
how we will actually ticket people who run a yellow light versus the double murder homicide of plowing through stop
00:21:17
signs that is the Republican party including Ken I find comical. >> Okay. So what do they do here? What? It
00:21:23
looks like they're going to pick one of these, a logger or a brewer or whoever. They're going to get one of these
00:21:29
people. What is the move here from from >> Jackson? I I I'm in a weird way, all this all this
00:21:37
ridiculousness around holding on to the land of the dead with McConnell and the fact that it's not unusual for a
00:21:43
71-year-old man who's out of shape to drop dead. That's that happens, folks. I think it's going to help us. I'm more
00:21:49
optimistic about the seat because I think they're going to find somebody who has a lot of chest hair, who says the
00:21:55
right thing, who can tap into this movement. Hopefully, Platner Platner. Platner started or tapped into this
00:22:02
movement. I actually think he might be powerful on the campaign trail for the new person or whoever that is.
00:22:07
>> But you think just keep him out? >> No, keep him out. I mean, especially and including his advisers. Did you see that
00:22:13
interview with the two? >> Oh my god, was that cringe? >> They're going out. What's that voice
00:22:17
called where they affect the voice? >> Vocal fry. Vocal fry. >> Oh my god. I'm like, this is Is this the
00:22:22
is this a Democratic party? >> At the first when I It's so When I saw those two, I'm like, oh my god, we're
00:22:28
[ __ ] That's who's running the Democratic party now. >> It was just like, oh my, how they just
00:22:34
decided on this guy and didn't do any betting that looks like any betting whatsoever. I mean, this guy seems to
00:22:39
have just, you know, at one point a friend of mine, Lulu Garcia Navaro, had interviewed him for the New York Times,
00:22:45
and he go she goes, "Is there anything else?" And he goes, "No." Like, and of course there was lots else like, and
00:22:52
that was pre the the second part, which was a lot of people saying he was, you know, a pig. And then it then there was
00:22:58
a third part. This guy's >> You're right. You should just exit the stage. You should just go away right now
00:23:04
and get some help. I think the aging quite frankly is going to shine a light on Susan Collins who is 76 and quite
00:23:12
frankly looks 86. It it I mean enough already. >> Enough. >> This is a layup. >> Yeah.
00:23:23
>> Find some guy. >> Why don't you go up there? Do you have chest hair? I don't recall. You don't
00:23:28
have chest hair, do you? >> Oh my god. Are you kidding? They need to find a candidate that like that has
00:23:34
big, you know, pieces of more masculine men in their crap than me. >> They need to find a dude.
00:23:41
>> This is a problem. The Democratic Party. >> Well, here's the problem. The Democrat
00:23:45
going to be very honest, Cara. >> I know that. I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. It has to be
00:23:49
a guy. >> Let's be smart, not politically correct. Find a fisherman who hasn't raped
00:23:55
people. >> If there's a logger lesbian, find a fish. Find a logger lesbian. >> That Okay, that might work.
00:24:02
>> A lesbian. Well, I the fact that the Democrats cleared the field for Janet Mills, that
00:24:08
to me was a Chuck Schumer [ __ ] up, like cleared it for an older lady who did a
00:24:12
very good job, but was like was not palatable to voters because of age and other issues. That's the problem as
00:24:18
Democrats. There could have been a really great race here and they didn't. But let's hope there is one now. Okay,
00:24:23
let's go on a quick break. We come back, Apple sues Open AI. This is a corker. Support for this show comes from Delete
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and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's jointdeme.com/pivot code pivot. Scott, we're back. Apple is suing OpenAI
00:25:39
and one of its top executives accusing company of stealing trade secrets to develop its own hardware. The lawsuit
00:25:44
filed last Friday claims open a asked job candidates from Apple to share details about secret projects and to
00:25:49
bring device components and prototypes to interviews. Open a is denying the accusation, saying we have no interest
00:25:54
in other companies trade secrets, remain focused on building innovative technology that empowers people
00:25:58
everywhere. Apple is asking for a jury trial and demanding open destroy proprietary material and pay damages. Uh
00:26:04
this is something else. This is right in Steve Jobs's playbook, similar when Apple was filing suits against Android
00:26:09
companies. Um it'll be really interesting. Also, I'm going to go through the whole thing. OpenAI's number
00:26:14
two executive. Uh, it's Fiji Simo is going to have a big role when the company went public. Just stepped down.
00:26:20
She's leaving for health reasons. Uh, Elon, of course, is loving this. He posted about Sam Alman on X. He takes
00:26:25
scamming to a whole new level. He calls him Scam Alman. To which Sam replied, "Homeboy, you're the one selling public
00:26:32
market investors on short-term space data centers." Elon then responded after stealing an open source AI charity, then
00:26:37
stole all of Apple's phone technology. Wow. And by the way, SpaceX shares are really dropping below almost below their
00:26:44
IPO price. So, what a [ __ ] mess. Let's let's dig into it, Scott. Any of these many things that are happening
00:26:50
here. >> Open AI's had I mean, the hits keep on coming and not >> a hot mess. It's a hot mess of a
00:26:57
company. >> I mean, they're being sued every which way but loose. They've had I think their
00:27:00
head of safety just resigned. >> They did. Yeah. >> Um they've shelved their IPO because
00:27:05
it's clear the money furnace. I mean I I feel and I'm writing a post on this for the first time I'm like okay
00:27:13
this is 99 and if you remember 99 it was first there was B TOC went we knew the technology was going to survive
00:27:20
but there wasn't enough demand on the front end so the pets.com and the Amazon got got cleared out first or went down
00:27:26
90%. And they're like, "But wait, we believe in the technology, so it must be about B2B." And then when that didn't
00:27:33
work, we went to the infrastructure place. Open AAI and Anthropic have both, it looks like, delayed their IPOs.
00:27:42
All of a sudden, what looked like a supply crisis, remember just a few weeks ago, we were talking about there aren't
00:27:47
enough data centers, there's not enough energy. All of the front end creating the demand, the majority of it has
00:27:54
flipped to supply because they weren't creating enough demand on the front end. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, XAI
00:28:00
and Meta have said, "Oh, wait. We don't have the demand we thought on the front end. Sell our comput. We're going to
00:28:05
flip the supply." So, I think the cracks are really beginning to go >> because then the supply will go down.
00:28:12
And also then you have Alex Karp and others like Microsoft CEO Sacha Nadella saying hey these AI companies are
00:28:18
stealing your business. They're analyzing handing it over to them lets them become competitors. That that's a
00:28:24
really interesting new wrinkle too is like they're going to steal your things. Of course people who have stole things
00:28:30
are telling you they're going to steal your things. Um so yeah I agree with you is something is about to like break. I
00:28:37
feel don't you? I mean, it just feels like very precarious is what I would use the expression.
00:28:43
>> This is I feel like we're in Q3, Q4 of 99 right now. And just to get back to the case, Tan is accused of coaching
00:28:50
employees on how to circumvent Apple's data security policies and encouraging them to bring confidential
00:28:56
>> um >> parts to interviews and and save the goods on that. That's really bad. >> Oh my god. An engineer Chang allegedly
00:29:03
kept his Apple laptop and exploited a bug to download files. texting, lol. So funny. And Apple stated that OpenAI has
00:29:10
had to take unlawful shortcuts while under mounting pressure to deliver its first commercial hardware product. So if
00:29:17
this was one of the AI players going after the other, but when Apple goes after you and not only that, this is
00:29:22
going to get a lot of attention because quite frankly, this is going to snare the strafe is going to hit Johnny IV who
00:29:28
was a bit of a iconic legend there. explain people. He he's he was mounting a device company with open AI that then
00:29:34
had its own >> he started a device company that was acquired by open AAI for 6.57 billion
00:29:40
the majority of which I think will be written off. I think that will prove in terms of write-offs and by I think
00:29:45
Johnny Iv is a genius and like an icon and deserves all his acolytes that will go down as arguably
00:29:52
>> the worst acquisition of the last few years because I think they're going to have to write off the entire thing and
00:29:57
the interesting thing will be what the legal remedies will be because it'll take months or years depending on how
00:30:01
quick OpenAI is to settle. However, it's going to have an immediate impact on the
00:30:06
business. The device is expected to be unveiled this year. This gives them the excuse, Cara, and this is my prediction
00:30:11
for ne for later in the week. >> The device is never going to happen. >> Yeah. Same thing with their browser.
00:30:16
Apparently their It was interesting because remember when this happened, everyone's like, "Oh, Apple just gave
00:30:22
Open AI a real lift and then the deal degenerated into nothing like really and and now accusations of stealing." Um
00:30:30
it's they're such a hot mess. Like every day every someone leaves, people I think
00:30:34
are quite well regarded leave. I think the the the the number two executive really had health issues really indeed
00:30:41
from what I understand from people I know. But um but it seems like what do they do now? And of course Elon then
00:30:48
looks like well I just cuz an just because a scammer tells you you're a scammer doesn't mean you're not a
00:30:54
scammer. >> I don't I don't think Elon >> matters. Yeah. He's just using he's just
00:30:57
piling on right here. I I can tell you as someone who's just spent a lot of time in boards
00:31:03
talking about the right type of CEO, what what people fail to realize is that there are just very few people in the
00:31:10
world who can go from A to Z. There are people who can envision a company and hook up the printer and raise the
00:31:15
initial seed capital and get it to letter C and D. >> There's some really talented people who
00:31:20
can take it to institutional rounds and get it to letter H and get it to scale. And then there's like a few dozen people
00:31:26
in the world who are able to then do that and then run a public company. It's just you're asking someone to be a
00:31:31
dathlete. And the way I would describe Sam Alman if I were on that board, I would be saying this guy's a visionary.
00:31:37
I don't think he's an operator. I don't think he's assessing the financials, the
00:31:42
capital commitments, the risks, >> the relationship. There's a lot of, you know,
00:31:47
>> the ability to retain talented people. In some he quite frankly looks like the
00:31:52
guy's clearly a visionary. The question is, is he an operator? Steve Jobs was a visionary and a marketer. Tim Cook was
00:32:00
the operator in the supply chain to go from 300 billion to three trillion. In my view, it's I think Sam Alman should
00:32:06
be kicked up to chairman and they should bring in an operator that understands how to run this.
00:32:11
>> I think that's exactly what's any name you can think of. >> I'm I wanted to ask
00:32:16
>> He's got a lot of burnt He's got a lot of burnt bridges. I'll tell you that. They're piling up.
00:32:20
>> You know what the example is? I apologize for keep interrupting you. It was it's going from Travis Kalanick to
00:32:25
Darra Kasra Shahi. They need a Daras. >> Dar Kasra Shahi. They really do cuz then
00:32:29
they could clean it up and you know cuz Travis is a genius and an innovator. >> Just wasn't the right guy for the
00:32:36
company at the time >> and he's also a terrible person. >> Who do you think? >> Um I'd have to think really hard.
00:32:41
There's there are several there are the thing is you got to keep it exciting because you know your competition is Dar
00:32:46
Daario, right? who seems to have some skills, more skills than Sam does on moving it forward, right? So, um, you
00:32:54
have that's who your competition is. But you're right, D is D that a kind of a DA
00:32:59
personality is like that and and there's not many. I suppose Brett Taylor maybe.
00:33:04
I don't know. Uh, >> that's an interesting one. That's a great one, actually. >> Yeah. Um, I'd have to really think. I'd
00:33:11
have to really think. There are several. There are several. Um, you know, had she
00:33:16
been had she lived, Susan Wajiski would have been on the top of my list for that. Um, I can't think of a whole lot
00:33:23
of people though. I just can't. I just can't. I mean, they're going to have to do something. But is this board strong
00:33:29
enough to do it? That's the thing. Or are they going to stick with Sam? But he's definitely created all, you know,
00:33:34
and him, by the way, them tweeting back and forth. They look like [ __ ] He just walked into Elon's trap because
00:33:40
Elon, everyone thinks Elon's a villain and an [ __ ] And so Sam by fighting with him is it's a mistake. And I like
00:33:47
to Homeboy and I agree with him about the short-term data centers. Most people think it's kind of ridiculous,
00:33:53
>> but you walk into everyone. It's already built in that Elon's an [ __ ] And so
00:33:58
you just become an [ __ ] at the same time. Anyway, we'll see what happens here. I think you're right. I think he's
00:34:03
they're going to have to replace him. I do. I agree with you. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back,
00:34:07
California and 11 other states file a suit to block the Paramount uh Warner Brothers merger. I'll be talking to
00:34:12
California Attorney General Rob Bont all about it. >> This is advertiser content from Harvey
00:34:19
AI. We have a choice over who we work with and who we don't. Specifically, who we allow to advertise and who we don't.
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And for those of you who watch my content, I am not an AI catastrophist. I'm an AI optimist. I think it's going
00:34:29
to create more jobs than it destroys. And I think our job as professionals is to figure out how to leverage these
00:34:35
these tools. AI more than almost anything I do in terms of what I could point to for real economic leverage and
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savings is 100% in the legal fields. Harvey is the AI designed specifically for legal work trusted by leading law
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work with Lexus, Nexus, Microsoft, and this is a key and I do this internally with my LLMs with permissions. It lets
00:35:06
you look at the firm's own files and databases. So here it's answering a question, reads
00:35:13
the complaint, pulls the relevant terms, checks the web, weighs the evidence, and
00:35:18
drafts a response. But it also can do this in a shared workspace between the firm and the client. So they both have
00:35:25
visibility into the work being done and can both add value to it. I I think this
00:35:30
space is clearly sort of handinand glove for AI, right? So there's no doubt about
00:35:35
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00:35:54
We're back. California Attorney General Rob Bont along with Attorneys General, I
00:35:58
think that's right, from 11 other states, a dozen, just filed a lawsuit to block Paramount's 110
00:36:04
uh uh billion dollar merger with Warner Brothers Discovery. The suit alleges the
00:36:08
merger will help reduce competition, creating higher prices, less content, and hurt movie theater cable
00:36:14
distributors. Is quite a narrow lawsuit. Bont and his fellow AGs are asking Paramount and Warner not to close a deal
00:36:19
while the case moves through the courts. So, one couple things we want to talk about here. It's very narrow from what I
00:36:24
understand talking to people. Um there's um there's there's a lot of um feeling at Paramount. They I don't think they
00:36:33
thought it was going to be a dozen of these things. I thought they it I think the the negotiations didn't go very well
00:36:39
between Bont and Paramount. They there was this weird threatening to leave California, which I think is nonsense.
00:36:45
Um, so, uh, so just give me your quick thoughts before I get out of here and talk to California Attorney General Rob
00:36:51
Bont about it. >> I'm mixed here, Carrick, because I can see why when Republicans in the Trump
00:36:57
administration are happy to weaponize the courts and the legal system to intimidate the press. I I kind of
00:37:04
applaud AGs in DAS in blue states pushing back and say, "All right, girlfriend. Two can
00:37:11
play at this game." Because quite frankly, I don't think there's a legal basis to to to claim that it's monopoly
00:37:18
power. I think on a pure economic competitive level when you're facing when you're facing YouTube and these
00:37:25
different platforms, I don't think it's a monopoly. So, but at the same time, what's good for the goose, right? I
00:37:32
would just go through market share and say in terms of viewership time, you know, YouTube's at 12%, Netflix is at
00:37:38
nine. the combined I I just failed to see how this triggers any sort of legal review. What is the legal justification
00:37:47
for blocking this market? >> It becomes 86% of the market is shared by four companies only versus six to
00:37:56
seven or whatever. It creates you know that's this is the idea that it's creates a smaller group of buyers, a
00:38:02
smaller group of distributors and um that's essentially it. And then it raised and then theater owners will have
00:38:08
to raise the prices. A lot of actors are kind of upset. Blah. I think he has to do this. I think you're right. They have
00:38:14
to show a little teeth here. >> The argument on the ground and I believe this. I believe that tens of thousands
00:38:20
of creative jobs are going to go away. I think there's going to be a scream let out by the creative community that they
00:38:25
don't even know what happened to them if this merger goes through because I think
00:38:28
the only way to justify $12 billion acquisition price is to find quote unquote efficiencies through AI. and
00:38:33
they're going to move harder at this than anyone despite their commitment to produce more movies or what have you.
00:38:38
The problem is is that the argument that there's too much concentration is like,
00:38:42
well, folks, we're trying to compete with the people you say are too powerful and that if you don't let us merge, all
00:38:50
you're do is all you're doing is strengthening numbers one, two, and three. >> Right. Yeah. I think that's what
00:38:54
awesome. I just got a note from someone at Paramount that said it's a silly and laughable market definition. That's what
00:39:00
that's their answer, I guess. I don't >> I don't think I think this gets swatted
00:39:03
away, but at the same time, if you there's such a huge ticking fee of like a half a billion dollars a month
00:39:09
continues to go on, >> that they have leverage, >> although they may they may be able to
00:39:15
extract something. >> Yeah, especially if L if Britain also does it. It'll definitely slow them
00:39:19
down. I I think it's going to close. I just I I'm not sure what, you know, we'll see where it goes, but they
00:39:24
definitely have they've dirtied up Paramount quite a bit with actors, talent, and I think the general public,
00:39:31
and I I don't think the CBS stuff has helped. I think it's a minor part of it, but it's gotten an outsized attention.
00:39:37
Um, and I think they really I I think they may and having the dinner with Trump thing wasn't a good look. You
00:39:44
know, bringing reporters there. I've told him this. Um, but we'll see. We'll see where it goes and we'll see what
00:39:49
Pont says. So, I'll talk to him now. I'll also note I extended an offer for an interview with Paramount's Council.
00:39:54
California Attorney General Rob Vont is with me now. He's in the middle of quite
00:39:58
a busy day. Rob, how's it going? >> A good busy day. Uh, it's going well. We we filed our lawsuit today and we're
00:40:06
excited. >> Yeah. So, nice backdrop. You did it in front of the Hollywood sign. Can you I
00:40:11
just want to know how you thought of It's very well coordinated online. You've got a lot of all the other AGs.
00:40:16
You've got a number of senators, etc. uh sort of talking it up. Talk a little bit
00:40:21
about why how why you were positioning it. >> Yeah, I mean we we have lined up and
00:40:26
synchronized the different attorneys general to talk about the lawsuit that we're collectively bringing. There's
00:40:31
there's 12 of us in California plus 11 others. Some of the other statements that you're seeing from, you know,
00:40:36
Senator Murphy, Senator Warren, that's just organic. Uh we we we haven't spoken to them. They they're watching this
00:40:43
issue and they have a viewpoint and they're expressing it and we appreciate the support that they're showing. Uh
00:40:47
we're focused on the law and the facts here and this proposed merger between uh Paramount and Warner Brothers violates
00:40:53
section 7 of the Clayton Act and we think that the market concentration and the three markets that we've named um if
00:41:00
there it's um presumptively unlawful and and yeah right yeah distribution of uh wide release film uh films and and also
00:41:09
of blockbusters and then um licensing of cable channels. So, we think we got three three clear markets where they
00:41:16
violate the law. >> So, let's talk about the goals here because it's much narrower. You could
00:41:19
have gone a lot of different directions here uh in this in this lawsuit. And it's it's quite narrow actually, but um
00:41:26
what do you hope to get out of this lawsuit and how did it come to this? What's the goal?
00:41:30
>> The goal based on the lawsuit is to block the merger. If there is some sort of discussion that that happens and you
00:41:38
know, we're not inviting it or shutting the door on it. It's up to Paramount or Warner Brothers whether they want it. We
00:41:44
we will always engage in good faith. We will listen. But we've expressed our concerns very clearly chapter in verse
00:41:50
and you know nearly 40page complaint which talks about the markets and talks about the the impacts of the market
00:41:56
concentration and how audiences will be harmed and workers will be harmed and quality will erode and output will
00:42:03
decline. And we we think we set it forth and if they have a something that they want to recommend or suggest to address
00:42:09
our concerns, we will listen. But right now, uh, we we're asking to block the merger. We're asking them to agree to
00:42:15
not close the merger, consummate the merger while we're in litigation. If they don't agree, we're going to file a
00:42:20
temporary restraining order. And we think >> you haven't done that yet for people to
00:42:23
understand. If they don't agree to slow it down, correct? Is that correct? >> But but we need an answer from them
00:42:29
today, and if they don't agree today, we're we're filing later today. >> It doesn't sound like they're going to
00:42:33
agree today. That's my impression. Um, they've released a statement. They're also talking to people. Um uh say I'm
00:42:41
pretend I'm Min Del Rheem, their general counsel. Um he he they let me say what they said on
00:42:47
the record. Um Paramount fired back saying in a statement, "The practical effect of this lawsuit is to shield
00:42:53
those dominant streaming platforms like Netflix and technology companies from much needed competition." Obviously
00:42:59
Netflix, you were noting Disney in here and Sony and Universal. Netflix and others are not in this. There's no
00:43:06
mention of them. Explain why. answer what he's saying right here. >> He's he's he's talking about something
00:43:12
that's not part of the lawsuit. He's talking about the streaming markets. We haven't brought a lawsuit based on the
00:43:17
streaming markets. I I know that's where they think they can win the PR battle, but that has nothing to do with the the
00:43:22
lawsuit and the legal case that we've brought. We can, as you mentioned, you know, these are highly diversified
00:43:27
companies. We considered multiple markets before deciding on the three that we've
00:43:32
challenged. And he is trying to rebut something we're not even saying. We're we're we haven't challenged the
00:43:39
streaming markets, but I think they like that, you know, that you know, we're the
00:43:42
we're smaller than than Netflix. Netflix is the bad guy here. Don't look at us. I
00:43:46
think they like the deflection in that and I understand that from a PR perspective, but they are completely
00:43:51
missing the mark from a legal perspective. >> Included Netflix in here. Let's just
00:43:55
address it because one I mean one of the reactions I got was it's a silly and laughable market definition. Why aren't
00:44:01
they included? Because I mean we looked at the we looked at streaming and we looked at the impacts and uh we thought
00:44:07
we had a better case with the three markets that we chose. And so you know when when we bring a case we sort of try
00:44:15
to envision all the aspects of it going to court with an expert uh the the the the likely defenses and rebuttals from
00:44:23
the defendants. You know what the uh you know what the the the HHI the index on market concentration shows. um you know
00:44:31
how it measures up under you know US versus Philadelphia and and the market share that's an appropriate way to look
00:44:37
at it and we did that and landed uh with the three markets that we've that we set
00:44:42
forth in the >> even if you can imagine that all these markets are now merged with each other I
00:44:46
think that's what they're going that it's all it's all the same thing essentially and you are saying it is not
00:44:51
all the same thing in other words >> I think even Hollywood and the entertainment industry don't think
00:44:55
they're all the same thing I think they treat blockbusters differently than wide
00:44:59
release films you know wide I mean these films are different than um you know select release or different than
00:45:04
streaming. They're they're different. You know I think some people maybe some people see overlap maybe some people um
00:45:12
see some um some similarities but the market definition as you know is very important these in these cases and we
00:45:19
think we think we think we've landed on three very clear markets uh where antitrust law has been violated and we
00:45:26
we think they'll they'll hold up to scrutiny. So what you have to do is you have to prove the likelihood to succeed
00:45:32
on its merits to get an injunction, a temporary restraining order essentially. Um how where it goes to the Cal Northern
00:45:38
California court. Are you do you feel you are you have the likelihood to see merits with this more narrow group of of
00:45:46
issues you're bringing up? >> Yeah. You know, we we we think this case is very strong. We think that just like
00:45:53
Nextar Tegna, you know, we went in, we saw it and and secured received a preliminary injunction basically based
00:45:59
on the market concentration. >> Right. You can either get a preliminary injunction or a TTRO. Correct. That's
00:46:04
correct. Right. >> And we I think we'll probably file them both at the same time, but we we want
00:46:08
immediate relief, immediate blockage of of the merger. And we think that with these three markets as defined, we think
00:46:14
they're appropriate markets to define as we've defined them. And we think, you know, based on the the the the index
00:46:20
that that courts rely on for market concentration, they they are already um presumptively illegal. So we think we
00:46:29
have a very good chance. >> There's some reporting lawyers at the Justice Department felt that too,
00:46:33
correct? On some of this stuff, but there are other jurisdictions that aren't that much as much under the sway
00:46:39
of this particular company. Um, how do you look at theirs sort of passing like a lot of these countries have passed on
00:46:45
not Britain but others have others across the world have? I >> I I think it's appropriate for each
00:46:52
regulator within their jurisdiction and you know their geographic market to consider the impacts and and their
00:46:58
geographic market is different than ours. Um maybe the product market is is similar but our ours is different. And
00:47:04
so this suggestion I think that Paramount Warner Brothers and and and and they tried to advance this in their
00:47:11
statement today is that hey all these other regula uh regulators approved us what what gives here? Well it's a
00:47:17
different market with different impacts. It's a different analysis. >> That's what they were saying. So
00:47:20
>> what the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] Rob? So, so when you think about the the the response is what and not what do you
00:47:28
want, but there was some talk that you wanted Paramount to divest CNN that you said that and then you'd bless the deal.
00:47:34
You've denied these reports, but what do you think of the idea? >> Speaking for a friend. Speaking for a
00:47:39
friend. Yeah, I'm >> Yeah, I you know, I I never said that and it was interesting that that was
00:47:45
reported. You know, it's come to a place in this, you know, I guess it's high stakes. There's a lot of pressure.
00:47:49
there's a lot of um you know gossip just straight out lies that are being advanced and maybe that's part of a PR
00:47:56
campaign. Maybe it's people you know just want to be part of something that they they they don't have in inside
00:48:01
knowledge on um but you know that definitely could be part of a of an outcome here. Um I I I would say um
00:48:11
perhaps um it could be necessary but it's it wouldn't be sufficient um >> because you're talking about theaters,
00:48:18
right? because it's not CN. Yeah. >> Is not CNN at all. And and and so, you know, when when you get into settlement
00:48:25
discussions, should that ever happen here, um you can be creative. There can be different aspects and components to
00:48:30
it. Um but we're looking right now just at the litigation and find them. Now, there's a there's also a report, as you
00:48:38
know, and I know you addressed it in front of the Hollywood sign that David Ellison is considering moving
00:48:42
Paramount's headquarters uh to um and and the allocating the country's the company's $30 billion in plan spending
00:48:49
if reallocating if the lawsuit goes through. Personally, I don't believe I think I taken the under on this one, but
00:48:55
how do you respond to that? Do you believe that could happen? Are you worried about it? I mean, it it feels
00:49:00
like a potential monopolist trying to bully a state that is doing its job to regulate
00:49:07
them. And it feels like a lastditch, you know, desperate effort to try to blackmail California and 11 other states
00:49:15
into not enforcing antitrust law into allowing an illegal proposed merger to go through. And that's not going to
00:49:22
happen. It didn't work. We're not doing that. uh we have filed our complaint in court and um you know I I think they're
00:49:31
they're they're on overdrive on their PR and what they're trying to suggest and you know the statement that you were
00:49:37
reading from it it it feels like you know 1984 up is down black is white you know this is great for workers listen to
00:49:44
the workers what are they saying they're saying this is terrible for workers but
00:49:48
you know I I guess we should listen to David Ellison and Paramount Warner Brothers and believe that it's good for
00:49:51
workers and good for competition they say it's good for all the things it's bad for. It's bad for workers. It's bad
00:49:58
for prices. It's bad for audiences. It's bad for content creativity. >> There's certainly a lot of Hollywood
00:50:02
people that are not for this thing. They weren't for the Netflix thing either, by
00:50:05
the way. Even more so, I would say. Where did you you the workers were the ones you were had been hearing from the
00:50:10
most? Who who had you been hearing from the the most in that in those groups? The distributors, the theaters, the
00:50:16
actors, uh directors, writers. What is there was there one that had more weight than others?
00:50:22
>> No. uh but their collective voice was so strong and so unanimous. We talked to
00:50:26
writers, we talked to producers, we talked to directors, we talked to actors, we talked to the crew, you know,
00:50:31
IATSI u I attended hearings. I I I I you know and I I honestly I was inspired by
00:50:37
the courage of of actors who stood to lose a lot and and people who work in this space who could be punished,
00:50:44
blacklisted, who could be prevented from having a job and they they spoke on principle uh you with courage and
00:50:51
conviction and that meant a lot to me. I I I didn't really hear from anyone who thought the deal was good for the
00:50:59
entertainment industry except for David Ellison and you know and Paramount and Warner Brothers those who are
00:51:06
stakeholders would be affected >> to be fair to be fair there are some studio studio people that are like look
00:51:10
it's getting hard against the tech people and more a bigger stronger series of studios might be better to hold up in
00:51:17
in the current environment. There are people who do say that >> that hasn't been strongly expressed to
00:51:23
us, but I I I accept that there's some outside of Paramount Warner Brothers who support the the merger.
00:51:29
>> Two more things. This is 12 states are all Democratic states. Um a lot of some
00:51:35
people think it's a long putt you're doing here. At the same time, others say this is what Scott Galler was saying.
00:51:40
It's a good that you're pointing this out, that you're bringing it up, that you're punching back in some fashion.
00:51:45
Um, do you think it's should you have tried to get more a Republican maybe a GOP le?
00:51:53
You don't want it to look like a Democratic attack necessarily, but it's also a sign of things to come uh in the
00:51:59
upcoming months if especially if the um Republicans lose the House, the control of the House.
00:52:04
>> The door's not closed on on additional states joining, Democratic or Republican. And I uh was grateful that
00:52:12
our ticket master live nation case was very much bipartisan. Our next Art Tegna case is bipartisan. Yeah.
00:52:19
>> Mhm. >> This one could be maybe should be. I think you have to ask the Republican
00:52:22
states while why why they joined Ticket Master Live Nation or the ones that joined Next Art Tegna are feeling they
00:52:28
shouldn't join this one. Um on on just law and facts, I don't think there's a principal, legal, or factual reason not
00:52:35
to. So I I I don't know why they wouldn't. And so maybe they're just waiting. Maybe they don't want to be
00:52:39
first through the door, but maybe we'll join later. Um that happened in Next Art
00:52:42
Tegna, you know, the states that we started with on the filing date. Uh it it grew from from from then. And this
00:52:48
should be nonpartisan, bipartisan, whatever you want to call it. This is just making sure that the markets are
00:52:53
free and fair, not rigged and that there's competition. >> Yeah. Maybe Arkansas wants to become
00:52:58
Hollywood. I don't know. Um in some fashion, >> there are big states, by the way. New
00:53:02
York's in there, too. You got to always take notice of New York and California and um you know some
00:53:07
other states can you have I think they didn't think Washington state was going to join. That's my impression.
00:53:13
>> Um but they did. In fact they did. All right. Uh we we're almost to one other
00:53:18
question. Of course, one of the things they're raising is you want to be governor of California. You need to you
00:53:22
need to do this. Would you address that issue? um that you this is good for you for Rob Bont himself um to sort of punch
00:53:30
it punch it not not just the Ellison's but the Trump admin you know it has they have the links they've been having a lot
00:53:36
of dinner together um can you address that please >> sure this is good for the law it's good
00:53:42
for the rule of law it's good for competition it's good for consumers who are screaming that affordability is
00:53:47
their biggest challenge and they don't want prices to go up at movie theaters or on their cable bills um this is a
00:53:54
breadandbut issue about how our markets are supposed to work. They're supposed to be free, fair with competition.
00:54:01
Prices are supposed to stay reasonable. Choice is supposed to stay high and competition high, quality high. And so
00:54:08
maybe those things are good uh for me personally, maybe they're bad for me personally. Um I have no idea, but I'm
00:54:14
doing what I think is right. I'm doing it based on principle, based on the law, based on the facts. And I am not running
00:54:19
for governor. I am running uh for re-election as California Attorney General. I'll be honored if my bosses,
00:54:24
the voters of California, um, voted for me, but um, maybe some of them will hate
00:54:29
this uh, action and maybe some will love it and maybe some will be in between. I
00:54:32
have no idea. But I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do, not based on any, uh, political outcome or
00:54:40
consequence from it. >> Okay. All right. Uh, thank you so much, uh, uh, California Attorney General
00:54:46
Bont. I really appreciate it. And, uh, I'll be watching to see what happens next, um, in the next 24 hours, I guess.
00:54:52
All right. Thanks, Rob. Good to see you again. Thanks for having me. Good to see
00:54:54
you. >> Take care. >> All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
00:55:00
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academy. >> Okay, Scott, welcome back. Let's hear some wins and fails. You go first. Well,
00:57:17
I'll speak more about this, but when I was in Miami and at the Hard Rock Stadium
00:57:23
watching Team England play Norway and Norwegian fans started singing with the English fans, Sweet Caroline and then
00:57:31
English fans started doing that rowing motion. It just gave me so much hope I was so desperate for. I just it when you
00:57:38
hear 70,000 people who come together like kids who love each other but their parents have been arguing it just that
00:57:46
collective humanity and the athleticism. I really do believe that the World Cup has tapped into this need to remind each
00:57:54
other that we have more that we share than differences. I just that was such a um you know I've been to I don't care
00:58:03
about sports and then every four years I get really into it because my kids are into it. I took my son to Moscow and St.
00:58:08
Petersburg 8 years ago. We went to Qar four years ago. This is by far the best because this is this is the
00:58:14
encapsulation of something wonderful. And that wonderful thing is that people around the world feel especially in the
00:58:22
west and in democracies feel a sense of camaraderie and comety of man. And our leaders have been getting in the way of
00:58:28
that and they've been dividing us and we're actually not that divided. were being divided and that game just
00:58:36
reminded me of it and it just >> it is a contrast to the like the political stuff because the minute
00:58:41
Lindsey Graham dies uh Trump was like taking advantage of it like so gross like you know what I mean like it's a
00:58:46
it's a it's a such a contrast. >> Well, you know what's made this World Cup great quite frankly is none of these
00:58:52
leaders are anywhere [ __ ] near it. That's right. >> Thank you for staying out of it.
00:58:55
>> Yeah. >> Thank you for staying out of it. Just don't >> don't poison it. And in the moment that
00:59:00
Trump did enter it, it kind of [ __ ] everything up for the American team in my opinion. Anyways, that's my win. My
00:59:06
fail is a little bit I I've thought a lot about this and I really want to get your viewpoint including if it's push
00:59:11
back. When I was at UCLA, I didn't think I knew a gay person. And what I found out, I was at UCLA at a
00:59:20
pivotal time for gay rights or society as it relates to how it how it feels about the gay community. And that is
00:59:27
within two years of graduating, I found out not only did I know gay people, but my roommates, my best friend, and
00:59:35
several of my fraternity brothers were gay. And the reality was from 1982 to 1987 at UCLA and in America, you were
00:59:43
not allowed to be gay. You just and those of us who are heterosexual never really and still
00:59:51
don't understand the the shame that America was putting on gay people. And I know you felt that.
00:59:58
>> I definitely did. Yeah. >> And and can relate to this. And then the way we traed treated people who got this
01:00:06
plague, the shame, the shameful way that we treated this community when they were
01:00:11
at their, >> you know, these young men, mostly young men who were at their most vulnerable.
01:00:16
And so I empathize with with men and I haven't walked in those shoes that were closeted.
01:00:25
But the reality is I think Senator Graham deserves to be lauded for his service,
01:00:31
his ability to get deals done. He was wellliked, but I don't think his legacy is going to
01:00:38
be kind. >> No, I don't either. >> And and this is where I go with this. And I and I and I'm really like reticent
01:00:45
to talk about this way because I do believe you need to heir on the side of positive and grace when someone passes.
01:00:52
But my belief is that Senator Graham's uh hypocrisy will be his legacy. And his hypocrisy isn't about being gay. It's
01:01:03
quietly benefiting from the courage of people who risked everything to secure equal rights
01:01:08
>> and then turning around and arguing those rights should be denied to others which
01:01:13
>> and then affiliating with people who are pulling it affiliating with people who
01:01:17
are pulling those rights >> and and you can relate to this because you are one of the people here. Every
01:01:21
freedom the LGBTQ community enjoys today and that Senator Graham enjoyed was because someone else paid the price.
01:01:29
>> I would agree. >> People lost jobs. >> Yeah. were rejected by their families.
01:01:33
You were turned away by our security apparatus. They were arrested. They were beaten. They were ostracized. And in
01:01:39
some cases, >> people were killed for the simple act of living honestly. And they accepted those
01:01:44
risks such that the next generation wouldn't have to endure that [ __ ] >> Yep. >> And to enjoy the protection their
01:01:52
courage created while publicly undermining it. >> Yeah. >> Isn't just inconsistent.
01:01:57
>> I would agree. It's a profound failure of gratitude and in integrity. What it
01:02:02
says is at the end of the day it says I deserve these freedoms but people like me don't.
01:02:08
>> Right. I let me tell you I just I I should I back in the day back in those days it was cla very much. I saw Graham
01:02:15
at gay bars. I did when I was young. He was with another congressman um very frequently. Um and nobody said anything
01:02:24
at the time like everyone knew who he was. Uh there were a lot of people like that. It wasn't just him. Especially in
01:02:29
the Reagan administration, there were a bunch of gays who were doing anti-gay things. I was on the fence about outing
01:02:35
people back then, back in the day. Um and some the only time I would say when they were doing things that were
01:02:41
specifically anti-gay, that was okay. Otherwise, kind of a live and let live kind of person. That said, by this year
01:02:49
20 in the year of our Lord 2026, it was [ __ ] ridiculous. And I he was he was affiliating with people who were hurting
01:02:55
gay people. And I would agree with you. >> He could have been a hero. >> He could have been a hero. And he just
01:02:59
was he was ashamed of himself, but from what I can see. Um, and I had heard about it, of course, as most gay people
01:03:06
sort of there's sort of a whisper kind of thing that happens with gay people. Um, but it was it was enough. It was
01:03:13
absolutely [ __ ] enough the way he was. I think more to the point was sort of this raora fish personality he had
01:03:19
and people you know that he was close to John McCain and then he turn and very kind very close to the Biden's and then
01:03:26
completely turned on them just to attach himself to a stronger man which in this
01:03:30
case was Trump and that may have been a real conversion by him but he was constantly
01:03:36
um pretzling himself in really uncomfortable and I hate to say that unnatural acts all the time and um I
01:03:44
thought it was pretty gross. I think it was and I think he could have been a a great one. Especially the stuff he said
01:03:49
about Trump initially was just like JD Vance was absolutely accurate. Um but he decided power was more important than
01:03:56
than principles. And that's what >> this even goes there's a lot of people who haven't acquitted themselves well in
01:04:02
order to be close to the flame of power. >> Yeah, I get it. >> What I think this goes deeper and that
01:04:07
is I think a person's character should be measured by their willingness to bear the cost of their convictions.
01:04:12
Otherwise, they're just opinions. And when you ask, as Senator Graham did, others to carry that burden while hiding
01:04:18
behind the rights they won for you, you've outsourced courage and privatized the benefits. And history remembers the
01:04:26
people who stood up when it was dangerous, not those who waited until it was safe and then tried to pull up the
01:04:33
ladder behind, >> including straight people who went out. Like, I'll never I'll never have a
01:04:37
nuisance because of what he did around marriage. I'm sorry. He took a he took a stand that was hurtful to that hurt him
01:04:43
badly at that time. And so yes, things cost things and he did not pay any prices and he was constantly angling for
01:04:51
power and that and the reason he was closeted is so he could be more powerful. Right. So it all had to do
01:04:57
with his desperate need for power and it is a bad legacy for someone who you had
01:05:01
a sense could have been greater. Right. Anyway, you're right. I think you know there's nothing controversial.
01:05:06
>> I think his legacy is the following. The the crulest the crulest part about this
01:05:11
is not just betraying yourself. You're betraying the people who absorb the blows so you could live a safer life,
01:05:17
which he did and then paid the price. He collected the dividend and then voted to
01:05:21
cut cut off cut it off for the next generation. And some he was cashing he was cashing checks that other people
01:05:28
wrote and I think that's his legacy. And it's a terrible thing to say after he has been deceased. But uh
01:05:35
>> I know so many people including yourself >> who paid a real cost. >> Mhm. There was
01:05:42
>> such that such that younger people could enjoy the rights they they so so so much
01:05:47
enjoy. And not only that, the Republican party's come a long way on this. >> Yep. I agree.
01:05:51
>> And he he was not only not an ally, >> he picked up the gun and fired it, >> you know, at his own troops.
01:06:01
>> Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. and enjoyed the, you know, the closet in a
01:06:04
sub. It was gross. Um, I agree with you. That's a very good one. I am going to do
01:06:08
a uh a win is which is um, you know, you were talking about going to the to the game. I was joking. I didn't want to go
01:06:15
to your game because I was actually with my son Louis and we hiked all around San
01:06:19
Francisco and I have to tell you, I think it's we we hiked on this beautiful Sutro open reserve and just had the one
01:06:25
most wonderful long hike all day long. is this idea of people and you're seeing it more and more getting out of the
01:06:33
whole noise of everything IRL and it's not like do we talked about politics we tal we didn't like we like I don't want
01:06:39
to talk about politics it was we talked about everything and it was such a a delight I have to say I I kept saying to
01:06:45
myself I have to stop like being eternally online in a physical way and I don't mean because we talked about lots
01:06:52
of issues so um I just feel like IRL is the next is really a trend And I thought
01:06:58
at first it was like a fake trend, but it really isn't. It's really something I think people are very much longing for
01:07:03
in a way that's really quite I think it's really significant going forward. Um, including going to the movie
01:07:09
theater. I've had some really great times recently going to the movie theater. I went to see, by the way, I
01:07:14
went to see the Moana live, which didn't, you know, didn't do well, but I got to tell you, it was charming and
01:07:19
totally enjoyable to go to. I've gone to so many movies lately and so have all my
01:07:23
kids which is really interesting and I really encourage that this IRL stuff in whatever form it takes. Um I think fail
01:07:30
is um the failure of um what you were talking about is the is is this this the fact that people look at that picture of
01:07:40
Mitch McConnell and think this is fake that that's where we are. Every nobody's telling the truth they're creating when
01:07:47
they could fix it very easily and act with ethics and honor. Um, it goes to what you were saying about Gra uh
01:07:53
Lindsey Graham and everything else is that like we are now convinced they're lying as the beginning, not at at the
01:08:00
end. And that's it was troubling. And everyone was like, "Oh, those those memes were so mean." I was like, "Oh,
01:08:06
come on." Like, come on. That's the world now. And I don't mind those as much as the fact that nobody really good
01:08:13
people don't believe things now, right? There's always a group of people that are going to be conspiracy theorists and
01:08:18
kind of nutty, but really normal people are like, "Is this real? What why can't they just do the right thing and like
01:08:25
show up in a video? Like show show up like come out physically like speaking of IRL, just wheel the old man out and
01:08:32
look at him. He shouldn't be in office, but why not do that?" And all this this this fakery is such like or pretending
01:08:39
that Trump's not sleeping. He's sleeping everybody. That's what he's doing. Like
01:08:43
I just it creates this sort of disbelief in our system that it's really starting
01:08:47
to get really irritating on many levels. Anyway, that's my um uh and I think that
01:08:52
picture is sus. Sorry, I agree with you, Scott. It's very sus. It's a sus picture, even if it's partially real. Um
01:08:59
uh we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:09:02
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott
01:09:09
universe, Scott, you talked a few weeks ago about how much you admire Bill Maher. Uh, did you know you got a shout
01:09:13
out on his Club Random podcast? You came up while he was interviewing actress Boderek of all things. Let's listen.
01:09:21
>> Who was it? It was on your show, I think. Uh, Galloway. >> Yes. Scott Galloway.
01:09:26
>> I think he was talking about >> Yeah. >> the [ __ ] of >> of course >> of do what you love and you'll never
01:09:33
work a day in your life. No, do what you're good at and then you'll make a good living and you can do what you
01:09:40
want. I'm not really sure if she was comfortable. >> I did not know that. Seriously, she also
01:09:44
doesn't like vacer is thinking about me. >> Yeah, she is. But you saw Emily Ratikowski got a big book deal
01:09:53
>> from her book. >> I saw that. And by the way, >> she's still not talking. >> I heard an excerpt from her book on the
01:09:58
New York Magazine website and it's it's well written. >> She's beautiful. Her first book was I I
01:10:03
interviewed her because the book was well written. >> I was really I was like she's a good
01:10:07
writer. This this woman knows how to write. >> Yeah, I know. There it is. There it is.
01:10:12
Anyway, Bo Derek, good to know. All right, that's all I have for you, Scott. Uh, that's the show. Thanks for the
01:10:18
pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.