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This isn't the end of the Co Bear show, Cara. This is the end of late night television.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser
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and I'm Scott Galloway. We got a lot to get to today, including Trump suing Rupert Murdoch and CBS
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cancelling Co Bear. I know you have a lot of thoughts on this, but it's really hard not to talk about the coalplay
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situation, the coldplaying of it all. The CEO of data ops platform, astronomer, I don't know why it was called astronomer, Andy Byron, has
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resigned after being caught on camera at a Coldplay concert having an intimate moment with the company's head of HR.
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You literally cannot make this up. We had our own steamy date at Coldplay. Caught on camera, which people can see
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on our socials. As listeners pointed out, of course, you're the small spoon, Scott. Another comer said, I would let
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Cara swaddle the [ __ ] out of me. One more someone said, Scott would be an awful head of HR. He would have to call
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himself to his office on a daily basis for the latest inappropriate joke. I mean, what do you think of this thing?
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This was this is a phenomena. Well, first off, I mean, distinct of all the humor and the reality is good humor. The reality is a mother who trusted this
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guy who thought she'd found the love of her life and was raising children with someone found out in the worst way possible
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that he's a fan of Cold Play. I knew he I knew. I was like, where is he going? Because he could care less. Cole play was a little bit embarrassing.
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I have to say I would agree. I would agree. Whatever. He works for astronomer. He he was studying Uranus. Um
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Oh. Oh. How long did you wait for that one? How Okay, I'll be serious. I'll be serious
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for a question. I was go I think it reflects something kind of weird about our society. Shaming. I think a lot
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about shaming because I think a lot about depression. Yeah. And what triggers you and the reality is shaming is an important part
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of our society. And that is to be shamed is meant to restore the social fabric. You are not supposed to beat up children in your tribe. And if you do, you are shamed. And there's a
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good reason for it. It's meant to create cohesion in a more civil uh you know, civil community and
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species. The problem is now we have industrialized shame and we use it for entertainment. And in my opinion, a lot of what was
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meant to be shaming was meant to restore fabric. It's cutting out our fabric now. And that is there's just too much
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economic incentive to shame people. Also, on a more meta level, I find there's an industrial shaming complex is essentially a form of mini revolution because essentially you're always
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they're always shaming rich white people because people are so pissed off that CEOs are now making 300 times the
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average salary, not 30. And let me just go to a very tactical level here. We deal with this all the time on boards
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because men will mistake kindness for sexual interest and women mistake uh sexual interest for kindness. There is always a mismatch instinctively. men when they get to a certain level start
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believing that that woman is interested in me and this is you know reported seemed interested in him but go ahead right and it happens and a lot of times it's consensual but the approach and I
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think this is the right one that a bunch of the boards I've been on is that below a certain level it consensual
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relationships of which are 99% of work one in three relationships begin at work are a wonderful thing eight
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There's been eight marriages in my companies. I think it's a wonderful thing. Above a certain level, executive
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level, and you have to, in my opinion, need to predetermine it. Your fly is up and locked. This guy, in my opinion, was
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guilty the moment that happened because when you get to a certain level of power, people will will start treating
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you differently and you create a power asymmetry, which usually men are more predisposed to abusing, and it creates
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too much risk for the organization. Let's be honest, he didn't resign. He was fired. The board the board
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immediately met, had a conversation, said he's out, and then he got that call saying, "We think it's we're going to
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make a change. We think it's best if you resign." And he agreed. Yeah. And not only that, the head of HR, what
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the [ __ ] was she? I know that's that's I you know, that happens a lot in these companies, trust me, covering them. But it's always
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someone like that. But what I mean, in case of one big tech company, the the the chief counsel had a baby with
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someone at the company. Yeah. Google. Yeah. Yeah. This would be it. You mean Tind Tinder which was the tech
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community. Yeah, they do that all the time. One time a friend of a friend of mine who was working got a job I think at
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Facebook at the time or or it went to a small company from Facebook or something like that. And I said, "Well, what's
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your job?" She goes, "My job is the department of stopping people from [ __ ] each other." And I was like, "Oh, okay. Good job." Um, but here's the
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thing in this case. Beyond that, and that's the obvious issue here from a corporate point of view. One, when you
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go to concerts now or anywhere, you are you should have not no expectations of privacy with all the cameras with
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everything being recorded. And by the way, a kiss cam is sort of the least of the technologies, right? Like kiss cams
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have been around forever. So have like pranking people like those t remember those TV shows where they always like
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canded camera like right this is not a new fresh thing and sometimes candid camera resulted in really terrible
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things right things like this um so I don't think it's a new and fresh thing I think what it is is that the ability for
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it to go viral in the most profound way is really what's different I don't I think we've been shaming people for a
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long time using technology um prank phone calls again candy camera back in the in the day and things like that. So, I I'm not so sure they should have gone to this concert as a couple, which was
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problematic at the company and thought it thought people might not see them, right? That's that was sort of the arrogance of it more than anything. That the internet did do an amazing job with
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funny stuff. That was for sure. Like putting Betty and um Veronica together or or Fred Flintstone and Betty or Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump or Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. So
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some of those were quite funny. I think the funniest thing is now at every sporting venue across the world
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when any anyone that Kiss Kang goes anywhere, they all dive like they're being found out. Yeah, that was funny. Those are good.
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But there's, let me ask you this, and this is one of the things that always struck me about a certain level of fame.
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How many people a day would you say recognize you? Seven to 10 now. No, I'm sorry. Seven to 10 come up to
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you. Yes. So, lots of people recognize me. Yeah. Okay. So, so I'm aware of it. Okay. This is what that means. And I think about this a lot. If seven supposedly for every person that comes
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up to you, a hundred people recognize you and don't come up to you. Cuz think about how many people you recognize.
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Yeah. And you don't you but and how many you actually go up to. I recognize in Soho. I see people I see dozens of people
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every day. I either know them professionally, but I never go up to someone or very rarely go up to them. So
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if you if seven people are coming up to you, that means that day 700 people recognized you. And I think about that and it freaks me out cuz what I feel like now
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is I have a security camera everywhere wherever I am and you see it, right? I'll be at a
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restaurant and I look over and I see someone looking at me and I'm like that's more than a glancing face. They're trying to put together how they
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know me, right? And some of it is bad because you feel like you lose a little bit of your anonymity. But I also think it's not a
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bad thing to just be thinking, okay, I need to equip myself well because I do I act better. I have to say, do you act better? I was at getting coffee the other day and
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I think I'm nicer. I'm nicer. I'm so nice. I'm like, do you want a picture? Would you like because they're sitting there with their camera.
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Um, and one of the things, you know, I have we're not like really big celebrities, but I think people really
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do know us because literally, especially after the when your dad died, people really reached out. I had a lot that
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week, but um I've had two people come up to me in one coffee thing and I thought
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other people know who I am here, right? And so what I do is I behave better. I'm
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incredibly polite. When I have my kids with me, I'm very nice to my children. Like I don't like chastise them. I'm
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like like sometimes when your kids drive you crazy, you're like, "Will you please sit down?" I don't do that. Which is
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interesting. Um so I Yeah, I've stopped hitting my kids. That's I hate that. That's a real
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bummer. Oh, no. You know, I I think nicer I think I'm nicer in public because I'm aware that just one picture of me being
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a Karen or something. I don't want that to happen. No, it'll go everywhere. I agree. I'm not usually like that. But that
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but it's so strange what the the algorithms and the public pick up on because more people more is known about
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these two people now than hands down than the assass the the guy who was killed assassinating or trying to
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assassinate Trump. I mean, it's just weird what we find fascinating. Yeah. These people literally, you want to talk
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about the earth moving beneath your feet. Can you imagine this is for the rest of
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their life, this is how those people, these people, what these people are known for
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whenever they move to a new community, they get remarried and they're joining a tennis club. They're showing up for a
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game of double doubles and this woman, this is like, "Oh, remember that? That's this woman." Yeah,
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they have just marked their brands for the rest of They did do the move though. I think they didn't, you know, they could have
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done a lot of things, but their move was so dramatic at the same time like we're hiding and then allowed Chris Martin to
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say what he said, right? It all came together because they did the duck and cover and then Chris Martin said they're
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either having an affair or they're shy, but he first said they're either having uh uh oh like he kind of set it up like
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imagine being him and who's the camera guy? Like it's all those kind of things I'm fascinated by. Was it good for PR at
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all for the company or not? Now we know what it is. You know what? That's a really interesting question because one of the
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biggest components of branding now is just awareness. Yeah. Had you ever heard of a firm named
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Astronomer before? I thought it was an astronomy thing. Like I didn't know it was what it was. It's some sort of AI thing. In a weird
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way, this look, this was bad for the two of them. In a weird way, I would argue this is
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good for shareholders of the company. Yeah. Well, everybody knows this company now. It's true. It's true. I think I've met
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this guy many years ago when he was at Fuse. I think he was at Fuse. I feel like I met him when I saw him. I'm like, but he looks like a lot of tech CEOs.
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Like to me, I was like, oh, that guy. I don't know. I know him. I don't know him really well, but he gives great
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head. How did I go there? How did I go there? How did I go there? How am I going to make this transition then? whenever I know when it's time for me to leave a CEO, when we get a CFO or
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a head of HR, then I'm like, I'm out. And then the But our company gets acquired, right? Um, and of course there's this new global head of HR
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on [ __ ] Friday at 6 p.m. first week after the deal closes, I get a call from the global head saying, "Hi, this is
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Lisa, whatever, head of global HR. I need to speak to you urgently." Oh, no. I mean, I'm there. It's been 5 days and I'm already in trouble. Yeah. So, I call her back and start emailing
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her and she doesn't get back to me till Monday at 10 a.m. Which, by the way, is a great weekend. That's a great weekend
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when the head of HR calls you and says, "Call me immediately." I hate when people do that in general. I need to talk to you urgently, but then
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don't and then you don't talk to them. Anyway, so she calls me back and at this point the check is cleared, so I can be
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fairly. And I'm like, and I said to her, I'm like, "How do you think my weekend was?" Right? How do you think? What do you
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think? It was very simple. We have these all hands and that Monday we'd had an all hands
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and we always go around and everyone talks about what they're doing and we introduce the new people and I say I open it up for questions and one of the
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one of the newbies goes I'm brand new. I as he's like I'm just curious what is the vacation policy? And I said the vacation policy is when you're new you don't ask what the [ __ ] vacation policy is.
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Wow. Good thing they and and the whole and I'm said I'm kidding you. Lisa, who's your manager,
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will tell you what it is. And she called me and said, "You can't ever discourage people from taking
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vacation." And that's what you were doing. And I said, I said, "I understand. By
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the way, I need to leave Gartner immediately." Yes. You're calling me a [ __ ] joke because you know what I usually do at all hands, Cara. This is I usually say, "Look,
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uh, many of you may have realized I was out for a week. I was in a terrible accident and my inhibition sensors were
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deeply damaged. So, there's going to be some locker room talk, some inappropriate touching, but I
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hope you are patient with me on my journey back. No, I love that my my inhibition sensors
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have been damaged. There's going to be my inhibition centers were damaged. There's going to be inappropriate
00:13:02
touching. You have the sensor. I hope you help me on my journey. You have zero sensors. Let me tell you my story. one time when I was at the New
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York Times, I had tweeted something about some terrible experience on United, which by the way, I'm a global services person there now. Um, and uh,
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and they um, and someone from the New York Times on the freaking mass head was like, "We think this looks like you're
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asking for something from United," which I wasn't. I was just griping, like my usual gripery. And I was like, "No, I'm
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not. I don't want Well, they could because we're the New York Times." I said, "Well, I don't work for you." So, I they're like, "We'd like you to take
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it down." And I'm like, "Uh, no." And they're like, "Yeah, but we want you to take it down." I go, "No."
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And and I finally was like, "You are a person on the mast head and you're spending your weekend yelling at me
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about a tweet of which I refuse to take down because I think what you're saying is ridiculous. That's that's why I like
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being independent. I'm just telling you this is why I I can I I'll take that and raise you 50. I'm booked to do a TV show for
00:13:57
Bloomberg Television. They're going to go on original TV classic." I and I do these TV shows. It's co We
00:14:04
sell out advertising for this thing. We have five shows in the can. The guy in charge, the producer says, "Can you do
00:14:10
some promos?" I'm like, "No problem." Go into my studio, flip on the lights. I do a promo, including one where I'm the
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construction worker from the guy from the Village People. You can find it, folks, on the internet without my shirt.
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You know, my favorite um one night um that I'm a construction worker. My I'm my favorite one night stand is called the Nut and Bolt. Yeah. And uh and I and then I just tweet
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these things out. I don't ask them for permission. I just tweet them out and I say, "Here comes the show."
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And the producer calls me back and goes, "We're horrified, but this is exactly what we need." They liked it. And then
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the next day he calls me and says, basically says, "Houston, we have a problem." Oh. And what had just happened is Bloomberg,
00:14:53
well, Bloomberg had just had a guy sitting around a round table inviting interns over when he was in a bathrobe
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open. And then they'd had another person groping people in the lunchroom or whatever. So they were very
00:15:05
understandably sensitive to anything. Yeah. And some of the journalists found it offensive.
00:15:10
And so he called he called me. I I remember I was at the Beverly Hills. He called me and said, "I need you to do two things. One,
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I need you to tweet out that we didn't know you were doing this." Oh, good God. And I'm like, "No problem. You didn't. I
00:15:22
did this on my own." And he said, "And the second thing is I need you to apologize." I'm like, "Nope, I'm not sorry. I don't
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I I don't I don't think this is any way sexist. And if I apologize, it's going to do me no good and you no
00:15:35
good. So, the truth has a nice ring to it, but I'm not apologizing. And they came back with a list of they
00:15:41
said, "Okay, we can get through this." And they came back with a list of things I couldn't do. And my favorite was no sex jokes, no ex whats. But for some
00:15:48
reason, they added in there, you can never mention Cheryl Samberg. I thought that was so weird. What?
00:15:53
Yeah. They came back with 12 things. They're like, "We're going to get through this, but there are these things you can't do. You Oh, I know. My other
00:15:59
one, like number nine was, you can't reference your erectile dysfunction ever again."
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They came back with 12 random things, but my favorite was you can never mention Cheryl Samber. Shber and your
00:16:10
and I called them back. True story. And I said, you know what? I called my team into a room and I said, "This is what they want us to do and this is going to
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be great for us. We've sold advertising." And I was kind of ready to sign up for it. And the team said, "Fuck
00:16:22
it. Let's let our freak flag fly. let's not do it. And I called the guy back and said, "This is a true story." I said,
00:16:27
"There's not a fit here. Let's fold our tent." We did five goddamn shows and they never made they never saw the light.
00:16:33
Can I just say who stuck with you during that time? You That's right. You stood by me. I stood by stood by your man. So upset. I
00:16:39
did. And they were ridiculous. And do I let you do erectile dysfunction? Do I let you reference your 100%.
00:16:46
Never going to get in the Scots jam. Anyway, let's move on because this is interesting because we like being independent. And this is why CBS insists
00:16:53
the decision to cancel the Late Show with Steven Colbear was purely financial and had nothing to do with the other
00:16:58
matters happening at Paramount, which is acquiescing Donald Trump and paying him a bribe. Colbear broke the news last
00:17:04
week that his show would end next May. This was just days after calling Paramount's uh $16 million settlement
00:17:11
with Trump a big fat bribe, which is accurate. Also worth noting, Sky Dance CEO Del David Ellison met with Trump
00:17:18
appointed FCC chair Brandon Carr earlier in the week. I'm not sure those things were related, but because he's in the middle of a merger, the Writer Guild of
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America is calling for an investigation calling the cancellation appears to be a bribe to curry favor with the Trump administration to to to pass this
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merger. Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are also questioning the timing and motivation of the decision without proof. I'm going to be
00:17:40
I'm going to be pretty fair here because I I don't know what's going on. What do you think is happening? There were
00:17:46
reports uh which that we all know about. They acknowledge the financials. Ad revenue for Cob Bear has dropped 40%
00:17:52
since 2018. The show had reportedly been losing $40 million a year. I'm not sure I believe those numbers. I think it's
00:17:58
not making as much money. And there the salaries are high and the and the and and Late Night is declining. No
00:18:04
question. Um I the other shows um obviously Kimmel and um Fallon allegedly lose money. I don't know. And I don't know if they're figuring in ancillary things or whatever. They may just be
00:18:17
doing a I don't I'd like to see the actual numbers myself before they make that claim. Um, Daily Show airs on
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Comedy Central, which is also owned by Paramount, but the others Fallon and others and and Seth Myers. Seth Myers
00:18:30
had to get rid of the band, I think, in order to keep going. Co hit these these shows very hard, and so did the the the
00:18:37
the the fracturing of the monoculture that we used to have. Now, everybody could do this and are are listened to by
00:18:43
more people than I think he had 2.4 4 million people watching him. Um, which is a which is a hefty sum, but still the
00:18:50
economics weren't right apparently. Your thoughts? Well, first off, the Writers Guild Association should announce an
00:18:56
investigation about how they could be so [ __ ] stupid is to go on strike for five and a half months from a position of total weakness. But anyways,
00:19:03
okay, this is a situation where I merely thought, all right, another example of our slow descent into fascism as the
00:19:10
president puts pressure on media and uh attempts to leverage his FDC or DOJ approval uh uh in exchange for getting rid of a critic. I did the research and
00:19:22
I think I'm wrong. I really do think this was a financial decision. If you look at the numbers, 2018 late night TV
00:19:28
was 400 million in advertising. It's gone to 200 million. So in half. Yep. Uh supposedly the numbers on this show
00:19:34
is it costs 100 million to produce and to make 60 million. It's losing 40 million a year. Do you know how many people work
00:19:40
on Col Bear? Do you know how many professionals they have? A lot. 200. So just let me I I never miss an
00:19:47
opportunity to pat ourselves on the back. But let's compare the economics of our universe versus theirs. Be pivot and
00:19:53
the property universe will do somewhere between 20 and 25 million next year. I would say we have between let's call it
00:20:00
15 at the most 15 full-time employees. Well, there are some people that vox on our ads. I have
00:20:06
a bunch of people doing Yeah, you're right. You're right. Let's call it 15 people. 200 people at 60 million is $300,000 per employee.
00:20:13
We're doing $1.5 million per employee and we're growing 20% a year. They're doing $300,000 per employee and
00:20:19
shrinking 20% a year. And this is what I think happened, Cara. I think Skyance and I've been a part of this when they
00:20:25
acquired the company. have not yet acquired the company. They they have it's but yeah,
00:20:31
but during diligence and to to get the deal closed, part of the conditions on closing are like, look, you've got some problems here, including one one show that is losing
00:20:43
$40 million. We don't want to be the bad cops who come in and fire all these people, right?
00:20:48
You need to do it. Yeah. And so I think David Ellison, that's what I'm guessing. That's what I'm guessing. David Yeah. David Ellson
00:20:55
said, "Look, and this is as a function of closing, you want the existing management team to do all the dirty
00:21:02
work. You don't want to show up and be the bad guys." Yeah. They may stay the management teams also. So, they want a curry favor with
00:21:07
the new owners presumably. It happened at CNN. Remember David Zazoff cut? You remember CNN plus squad?
00:21:13
I do. Yes. Very well. Speaking of more shows, remember when I didn't sign and I said they're going to cut it and you were
00:21:19
like, "No, they're not." And I was like, "Yes, they are television." Yes. Yeah. the name of bright lights.
00:21:24
But I generally think there's this isn't the end of the Cole Bear show, Cara. This is the end of late night television,
00:21:30
right? Late night television. He'll be fine. I think I think he'll do well in this medium. Oh, he's a remarkably talented person.
00:21:36
Remarkably talented. But this is a shitty business. America used to gather around the TV later. It
00:21:43
was the last thing they did. Now they don't. And in addition, let's look at the numbers. They four million people
00:21:50
were watching Precoid, 2.4 million now. And even worse than that, only 10%'s in the core demographic. It's all old people. It's only about a quarter of a million people in the 18 to 54, which is
00:22:03
the only people that advertisers want to reach. Do you realize this? What we're on today will reach as many people in
00:22:09
the core demographic as the as Cole Bear show, but he's taking 200 people to do it. So now what might have happened is in terms of politically he probably his
00:22:20
revenues declined faster than Fallon or Kimmel because he was seen as being especially political. And the reason why
00:22:27
raging moderates one of my podcast doesn't get the same CPM that we get is there are an increasing number of
00:22:34
advertisers who will just not advertise on political shows. They won't. They're like any political show is
00:22:40
partisan. Can I just say we tried to do a code conference in DC and we couldn't put the numbers together so we didn't do it
00:22:46
right cuz it was but I think I think a lot of people see Colbear is being especially political
00:22:52
and probably there are a number of large advertisers who just say Colar is off limits for us but this is this is an
00:23:00
indication of a larger trend when you need 200 people to produce 60 million in revenues and your your revenues have
00:23:07
been cut in half in the last six and viewership, listenership, and you're losing 40 million bucks
00:23:14
and you're about to get acquired. I bet Ellison said to whoever's in charge, you
00:23:19
got to deal with this problem. Clean up your mess. Clean it up. Clean it up. One of the things that I think is interesting is that they do very well
00:23:25
online. So does the Daily Show, but it doesn't for people know even though it does, you can't monetize it. That's the
00:23:31
issue. It's hard. It's not impossible, but they they're doing it for marketing, not monetization. when someone like Theo
00:23:38
Vaughn or or Rogan is doing it for money, like for real advertising. And so that's the difference there. And the
00:23:44
other thing is what's really interesting is I think Colbear would do well in podcasting. Look at Shawn Hayes and
00:23:49
those guys on Smart List or Amy Polar's at the top of the podcast game right now. Killing it. She's probably making a ton of money. This new pot is doing well. Yes. So, a lot of these people will find
00:24:01
and not all of them, but a lot of them will find either podcasting or video podcasting or I could see Co Bear doing
00:24:07
a bunch of live shows. He'll do really well if you want. Conan Conan Susan Conan's doing well.
00:24:12
John Stewart, right. Right. Well, he hasn't gone off, but I think they have definitely brought
00:24:17
down costs because John's only on once a week. They have a c a small, you know, a larger cast, but of people who aren't
00:24:23
paid as much. That's a way to go. you. One of the things Scott and I always talk about, you've revenues and costs
00:24:29
have got to align and whether you like it or not, you can't immediately say it's an acquiescence. I think it helps
00:24:37
that it gives Trump an excuse and he did of course as usual because he's a crass
00:24:42
hand bruised person. Um, you know, he I'm glad he was fired. I don't think he was fired as much as this isn't working
00:24:49
as a business. And I don't think there was any feeling that Colbear wasn't funny, wasn't talented. I think they
00:24:55
could have done it a different way in terms of telling him and letting people know. Um I I don't necessarily think the
00:25:03
sky people knew about it before. I just think they probably indicated what in the same way that I believe David Zazoff
00:25:09
must have indicated to the C the CNN people, we're going to you better do this cuz it was Jason Kylar that cut CNN plus not Zazz, right? Is that correct?
00:25:21
Or something like that. I don't remember, but it was No, maybe it was. Maybe it was I think it was Zazov. It was Yeah.
00:25:27
Supposedly supposedly Zazov told them to stand down on CNN Plus. Yes, they did. I knew about it. So, I didn't sign. And they said, "Sorry, it's not You don't control us yet. The deal's not
00:25:38
closed. We're moving forward with it." And then he showed up and said, "Bitch, I'm on top and I'm plugged. It's unceremoniously." As a matter of fact,
00:25:45
the night on a Tuesday night, I talked to our producer Scott Matthews and Rebecca Cutler, who I love.
00:25:53
MSNBC now, who's an a huge talent and swimming upstream. Um um anyways, but and Scott said, "This
00:26:00
is great news for the number one show." Granted, I was beating out Jake Tapper's book club. Um but so we were the weakest
00:26:09
strong man at the circus. And so I'm like, uh, get the team on the phone, high-five with the number one weekly show on CNN plus, literally arguably the
00:26:16
weakest flex in the world. Next morning I get a text from you. I'm in San Diego. Are you all right? Oh, yeah.
00:26:21
And I'm like, what the [ __ ] And I call you and I'm like, what's wrong? And you go, oh, you didn't see. And you for me article, CNN plus blogged.
00:26:27
Yeah. Unplugged. Yeah. You know, I had didn't sign with them because I had known I had heard from the new owners that they were
00:26:34
cutting it. So, um, off the record, and they had offered me a pretty big contract, and I just declined. I was
00:26:40
like, they're cutting you. Like, there's no other way this is going down cuz they need to because of that ridiculous death.
00:26:45
I wasn't as confident as you. I thought that they needed to go subscription. Anyway, it was the easiest cut. It was the
00:26:51
easiest of all. Aren't they kind of bringing it back? Aren't they They are That's what they're doing. They're going to have to They have to
00:26:56
get in the streaming game. It's just how you do it and at what economics. And as much as we love Steven Cobear, we think
00:27:02
he's an amazing talent. He will be just fine by the way. But let me tell you what happens. Okay.
00:27:07
Stephen Cobar I think is making somewhere between 10 and they say between 10 I heard between 10 and 20
00:27:13
million. Okay. So 20 million. And by the way worth every penny. Mhm. He could make that in two to three
00:27:18
years. He could be making that on a podcast with eight people. Yep. And maybe 10 million. But he where it
00:27:25
works is you use those clips to promote your podcast. But driving to it was like
00:27:31
we fell into the same trap at the New York Times where we thought letting Google crawl our data that we would send people that we could monetize. No.
00:27:37
Google got 99.4 cents on the dollar for taking our content and running ads along the right rail and the traffic they sent
00:27:44
us that we monetized with shitty banner ads didn't work. It doesn't work for them. It doesn't.
00:27:50
I consume I consume the best four minutes of late night on TikTok and it doesn't I don't go well now I'm going
00:27:56
to go watch the full 60 minutes on CBS tomorrow night at midnight. Right. So the model the late night model it's
00:28:03
pretty much I think it's for SNL which I think remains quite profitable but that's once a week 70 minutes. It's
00:28:10
a ton of talented people bringing together amazing I mean I think if you had I think if
00:28:15
those shows and that's a model maybe if they went to one night one night a week like the weekly recap
00:28:21
and made that 60 minutes really outstanding best guests. Yeah. You know that that might work but
00:28:28
nightly television they just can't do it. Artists can also go direct. So could the
00:28:33
book authors, so could they go to podcasts, they get more when when someone's on my podcast, they were like,
00:28:39
"Oh my god, we saw the move. The move the move is higher than those shows now, which is except for maybe like the view really goose both our books and stuff like that, but they're expensive. That's
00:28:51
just the way they are." So we'll see. I think you're going to see more of this. I think everyone's going to be sharpening their knives at all these shows, um, if not cutting them
00:28:57
completely. Um, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump tries to distract from Epstein by suing
00:29:03
Rupert Murdoch in the Wall Street Journal. Good luck with that old crocodile. Trump Scott, we're back. President Trump is suing Rupert Murdoch
00:29:10
in the Wall Street Journal over the over for defamation over a story about the birthday letter that Trump allegedly
00:29:15
sent to Jeffrey Epste in 20 2003. The article claimed Trump wrote a letter that included a suggested drawing for
00:29:21
Epste's 50th birthday. Trump is denying that it was from him, saying, quote, "I don't draw pictures. In fact, he does.
00:29:27
There's a dozen of them available for you to look at and it's not bad. The lawsuit names Murdoch, Dow Jones, News
00:29:32
Corp, News Corp CEO, and two reporters and seeks at least $10 billion in damages. Trump has ordered Attorney
00:29:38
General Pan Bonnie to produce grand jury testimony tied to the Epstein case, uh, which is a nothing burger. Bondi has
00:29:44
asked federal judge to unseal the transcripts. Um, Trump and Murdoch are two men who love a legal fight. Um, I'm
00:29:50
betting on, uh, Murdoch. And also, just so you know, you said last week Trump would do all manner of things to
00:29:56
distract from Epstein, which he's been doing. This is included in it. In addition to this lawsuit, he's now threatened to hold up stadium deal for
00:30:02
the Washington Commanders. Um, he also posted a bizarre AI video of Obama getting arrested and put up all you you
00:30:08
you put up a number of these. He's continuing to blame Democrats for the Epstein mess. Let's listen to what
00:30:13
Senator Amy Clolobachar had to say about that to Jake Tapper on CNN this weekend.
00:30:18
So the president blaming Democrats for this disaster, Jake, is like that CEO that got caught on camera blaming Coldplay. Okay. Like this is his making.
00:30:30
He was president when Epstein got indicted for these charges and went to prison. He was president when Epstein committed suicide and also he was a close friend of of
00:30:42
Epstein's for many for a decade or more. Um, any thoughts on this? And and a new
00:30:47
the last thing CBS Yuggov poll finds that 75% of Americans disapprove of the administration's handling of matters
00:30:53
related to Epstein. So, it's still as as I noted is sticking around. It's not going away and it's a this weekend
00:31:00
pretty much every major newspaper had very uh very detailed um stories which I told you linking Trump to Epstein. So, it's solidifying at least in the minds of regular people about how close they
00:31:12
were. So, where do what do you think about the Murdoch thing and then the distraction element? Well, in reverse order, we said this
00:31:18
last week and it's happening. Every 24 hours, put out something stupid that the media will go for. So, well, I won't let
00:31:25
you change the name of I won't approve a new stadium unless you take the Commanders back to the Redskins. Stupid
00:31:32
makes no sense. The media goes for it. That's okay. It does. First off, we should just refer to it the new team there or the team there as the Washington Epstein. And it's it's not
00:31:43
Rosio Donald, it's Rosio Epstein. We we just need to make sure that he knows this is not working. And
00:31:50
he has no intention of demanding that they change the name. He he this is unlike the other u uh uh
00:31:59
cases, nuisance lawsuits. I think he knows I think Murdoch does not scare easily. This is actually I think good
00:32:04
for Murdoch because it gives people the impression that Murdoch and his properties are somewhat
00:32:10
bipartisan and somewhat that one part particularly. Well, yeah, but he uses the post to
00:32:16
slap. Yeah, I think he uses different properties for different things. Like Fox News has been very slow on reporting
00:32:22
this stuff, the Epstein stuff. New York Post is just either attacking Mom Donnie or or not really doing anything here.
00:32:29
The Journal does I I have to say, he's done a great job shephering the Wall Street Journal and letting them be. But
00:32:35
go ahead. When the Wall Street Journal puts out this reporting, it's similar to when it the Wall Street Journal was the
00:32:41
first, I think the first media outlet where people thought, "Wow, uh, this reporting lends me to believe that the
00:32:49
wealthiest man in the world is in fact a drug addict." Because the the general sense of the Wall Street Journal is that
00:32:56
they are serious journalists and that if they put out something like this, they have double double and triple checked it
00:33:03
and they have, you know, they are not just throwing out [ __ ] for clicks. So this really hurts the president. I think
00:33:09
the president says if I challenge it, it gives the impression that it's not true. But I don't think this will end up like
00:33:15
the other cases where they end up settling. I think Rupert Murdoch is going to stick up the middle finger and this will be this will be dismissed
00:33:21
which is what he wanted to do. He's tried to get at him. There's an idea because Fox News is so support of the
00:33:27
president that Murdoch is Murdoch is not like let's be all that discovery during that last trial where they were very
00:33:34
culpable of what they did around Dominion uh systems. Um was all these emails saying Trump's a [ __ ] [ __ ] including from from Tucker Carlson, by the way. um all the internal emails and
00:33:46
stuff. I think that Murdoch has been sitting in the shallows like an old crocodile that he is waiting to get at
00:33:52
Trump. He does not like this Republican party. He likes the Republican party he can control, which is the old Republican
00:33:58
party, right? And so Trump is is not that. And so I think he's just been waiting here very much. So the Bob
00:34:06
Woodward was sued by the Trump and the judge knocked it out like he's not giving. There's nothing. Someone was
00:34:12
like, "Oh, what about Paramount giving? What about CBS giving? There's nothing he can do to Rupert Murdoch. He can't really pull someone's like they could pull Fox's good luck with doing that.
00:34:24
Like the stuff he can he can put the screws even to Elon, although it's hard because of we'll talk about that in a
00:34:30
minute. It's harder to put the screws to Murdoch of the things. He's also 109 years old. I don't think this old
00:34:36
crocodile gives a [ __ ] and he wants Trump gone so he can then control um Vance or whoever the next one is his company. He wants control of that person and he wants Trump gone. And so I think
00:34:49
he's not going to give at all. I'd be shocked if he gave. He wouldn't allowed it to happen if at that at that public I
00:34:56
can see all the problems at Fox because they're so sloppy. They're not sloppy at the Wall Street Journal and they would never have published this without all
00:35:03
the receipts. Never. In my experience, there spectacular journalism goes on there
00:35:08
because old media is held to a much higher standard because of section 230 where they can where Facebook can
00:35:15
circulate massive rumors about Dominion and Smartmatic uh that makes what was said on Fox look
00:35:22
like a dumpster fire and be immune from that and then Fox has to pay threequarters of a billion dollars. You
00:35:28
can bet the lawyers and Rupert Murdoch had said, "Okay, any story like this, it better be right because I've got a three4er of a billion dollar scar from
00:35:41
when we decided to tell our anchors to continue to lie about this knowing that it was a lie. They have been their
00:35:48
eyebrows have been singed and burnt off. So, the fact that they were willing to say this and in a pretty aggressive I
00:35:56
mean it just makes the president look bad, right? Yeah. They did a follow this week about more about their relationship, but go
00:36:01
ahead. And so what he said is one, I want a distraction, and two, I need he needs a distraction every 24 hours. And that's
00:36:07
what he's doing right now. Every 24 hours he is in a room with AI and his coms people saying, testing all these
00:36:13
ridiculous stories. Do they make us look like idiots? Will we win in court? Doesn't matter. Will it distract CNBC,
00:36:20
CNN, MSNBC and everyone else from from Epstein's and they'll talk about this a letter firing chairman pal changing the name of a football f I mean these things are so ridiculous if anyone believes
00:36:33
this is anything but a weapon of mass distraction I don't think they understand this guy's this guy's
00:36:39
strategy and this is that again this unlike the other ones he has no leverage like you said Rupert does not scare
00:36:45
easily he doesn't care he's going to be dead soon. I mean, he's he this will be and also I think I think Rupert's the
00:36:51
big winner here. I think it comes across as kind of pursuing the truth and as a a
00:36:56
legitimate, you know, overseeing legitimate journalism. I think I think Newscore or Roupert, if you will, is the
00:37:02
big winner here. He has long backed editors at the journal. when they did those Kristen Gran who's now at the New York Times
00:37:08
they did those initial Elon stories that was a big step out like when they did that and they are they do not remember
00:37:14
they did the one where Elon had slept with Sergey's wife thing they stepped out on that one and they stepped they
00:37:21
will and they will only do it when it is locked down at the Wall Street Journal and again Emma Tucker the current editor
00:37:27
is fantastic they've had great editors in the past he does back he does back people in that at that place at Fox I think he lost control of the situation is with whether it was Roger Als or
00:37:39
Tucker Carlson or Bill O'Reilly that's a different beast for him and a different
00:37:45
tool he's doing a different and the New York Post is just to just to write fantastic headlines it's not me it's
00:37:50
meant it's kind of to me the New York Post is him in many ways but at the Wall Street Journal he's been a good owner he's been a very good owner I he's never
00:38:01
never once and I talked to Rupert a lot when I was covering the internet and he really did not like the internet people.
00:38:07
Never once did he try to pressure me in any way. He'd call and say, "What do you think of this person?" And you know, but
00:38:13
I'll tell you, I've been I haven't really been pressured at many places. I don't I don't think I have actually,
00:38:20
oddly enough. It doesn't happen, folks. It just doesn't happen. And it doesn't happen just because the person's Rupert Murdoch. He's a very good owner of the
00:38:26
Wall Street Journal. Uh and we'll see what happens after he dies. That's going to be a that's going to be a [ __ ] show.
00:38:32
But we'll see. Um, okay. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, why Trump can't seem to quit SpaceX. Scott,
00:38:39
we're back. The US government just can't quit Elon Musk. A review of SpaceX's government contracts spurred by Musk's
00:38:44
feud with President Trump found most were vital. The review found SpaceX to be critical to the Defense Department
00:38:49
and NASA. For example, SpaceX's Crew Dragon uh Crew Dragon spacecraft uh is only the only US vehicle certified to fly astronauts to and from the space station. of the company's highspeed
00:39:01
internet through Starlink provides national security satellite capabilities. Um you you've mentioned
00:39:06
the security risk here. Um they are trying to find ways to be less reliant on Musk. It is not new to the Trump
00:39:12
administration. This was a concern of the Biden administration. It's a concern when any any vendor gets too much power
00:39:19
as as it should. Um but you know he's created a product that people have. Why don't you talk a little bit about this? I I I had said he's going to have a hard time
00:39:29
getting rid of Musk. What I found offensive is his attempts to get rid of Musk were not because he's trying to
00:39:35
protect the US government. It's because he was mad at him. So that's my issue with with what he was doing here.
00:39:41
I think the best and the worst product of the last couple years are from the same person. The worst product is hands down the Cybert truck. Just looks
00:39:52
ridiculously stupid. Not well made, stupid price point, stupid positioning. Um supposedly sales are like 90% off of
00:39:59
projections. The best product is Starlink. It's just the delta between everything else and Starlink is staggering on what could be more important. That broadband is like
00:40:11
water and this guy's figured out a way to find more potable water at a lower price. It costs in the if you were to
00:40:18
kind of reverse engineer what's the secret behind Starling 87% I think it's 87% of launches actually 52% of all global orbital launches and
00:40:30
84% of all satellites by mass are from one company and 87% of launches in 2024 in the US were were SpaceX and they're basically launching doing a launch every
00:40:43
2.1 days because the Falcon Heavy rocket that can put a kilogram into space for 2,000 bucks. And the near closest like the European equivalent, I think it's Aron 5 or something, it's $9,000.
00:40:57
And NASA is kind of even like prohibited because they're not allowed to blow up rockets on the launchpad. They just can't do that as a government agency. So he has a staggering lead and it has led
00:41:10
to a situation where twothirds of the low orbit satellites are controlled by one person and his blood sugar might decide one day to turn off battlefield communications technology. I think where
00:41:23
this ends up one I mean the reality is it would be fair to say the US doesn't have a space program it has SpaceX and that is if we need to bring astronauts
00:41:34
home from the space station we got to call Elon. If we want the most sophisticated
00:41:39
communication systems in the world and we want to offer it to Ukraine to push back on the Russians we got to call
00:41:46
Elon. If you're looking, I mean, Kyper has to call Elon to put their satellites into space. I think where this goes is I think this is a monopoly that has
00:41:58
avoided or evaded the real scrutiny of the FTC and the DOJ. I don't think that's going to happen any longer. But
00:42:03
at the same time, they don't want to give up that lead and that competence. I think where we end up is something along
00:42:09
the lines of where we've ended up with telco, and that is I believe there only two or three networks nationally because they're very expensive to build. AT&T
00:42:16
ver and Verizon. I don't know if T-Mobile is a third if they ran, but basically what the DOJ and the FD
00:42:21
is that right? I basically basically what the DOJ and the FDC said is like, okay, we understand the rationale for
00:42:27
monopoly. Basically, cable companies can convince local regulators that only one company can afford to build out all this
00:42:33
fiber. It should be us. So then regulators say fine, you're regulated monopoly. We have a bureaucrat who looks
00:42:40
at your pricing. And then what they did with the telco networks is they forced them to rent them out at an economically
00:42:47
fair price to other MVNOs's. So for example, Mint Mobile, which is one of the fastest growing Telos in the nation
00:42:54
or was one of the fastest growing telos in the nation is on either AT&T or T-Mobile's network. I think that's where
00:43:00
this goes. Carol, I don't think you want to kneecap SpaceX. I think what they're going to do is similar. I think they're
00:43:05
going to legislate what's happened with Kyper and say fine, you have a monopoly.
00:43:11
You keep on trucking. You keep having the most valuable private company in the world, but you have to lease out your
00:43:16
launch capability to other companies. Makes sense. Makes sense. That that completely makes sense. I think any
00:43:22
government, whether it's the Trump administration, any administration, Democratic administration, you cannot have one person, especially a single
00:43:30
person like Elon Musk given all the other issues in charge of these things. It's the same thing with whether it was Lockheed or whoever. We have to we have
00:43:38
to have more competition and that's a way to do it. That's exact Scott's exactly right. And we do have a more vibrant um cell phone. You do have
00:43:44
choices because they can rent it out. It doesn't really matter. It's how they market it, what customer service is, not
00:43:50
the commodity itself, which is connection, right? So, yes, I think that's a great idea. I think that's a
00:43:56
great idea. I am bothered that they even if I don't like Elon Musk that they decided to go after him because he
00:44:01
didn't get along with the president. That should not ever happen. It happens all the time, I guess, but kind of grotesque. um trying to trying to get
00:44:08
rid of him if even if it's right to try to sort of get rid of them or at least create more competition um to review
00:44:14
things just to screw with someone seems unamerican to me. It it is such an incredible security
00:44:20
Starlink amongst other things, right? Um they turned off Starlink access for Ukraine during a raid on Russian naval ships in 2022. This is one man deciding
00:44:31
to basically reshape what might happen in terms of the invasion, the successful or unsuccessful invasion of Europe. The American military has been quietly building a dependence on Starling. Most
00:44:43
notably, the our our most important, in my opinion, our most impressive weapons is our ability to deliver massive like
00:44:51
nationlike violence anywhere in the world through our satellites. will not our satis
00:44:56
communicate but our n our satellites which our carrier squadrons depend upon. What if all of a sudden our our we
00:45:03
deploy our carriers to a hot spot even a hot war and he decides to turn off Starlink? How
00:45:09
do you think these car carriers defend against incoming drones? Yeah, you have to have other capabilities 100%. Especially as we go
00:45:16
cyber with war, which is where it's headed obviously. The US government also rewarded SpaceX a $537 million contract
00:45:23
for Starlink services for Ukraine's military. So the most the most impressive component of Musk's universe and the most dangerous monopoly in the
00:45:35
world right now is the same company. It's SpaceX and specifically Starlink. And I don't think you I think you want to insense him, give him the economic upside of this incredible engineering
00:45:47
feat and the fact that good for him, he's established monopoly power, but for security reasons and economic reasons, I
00:45:53
think you're going to a on a military level ensure that he has no decision capability and there is no off switch
00:45:59
with within his ketamine lace fingers and two that other companies have access to that infrastructure such that he they can build out competitors. They have been sending Gwen Chotwell here.
00:46:11
She was apparently here for a meeting with the Trump people. She is the CEO of of SpaceX. More Gwen Chotwell, less Elon
00:46:18
Musk. She's well respected within the defense industries. Has been the quiet, competent executive. Uh though she
00:46:25
defends him for Let me ask you this. Some someone asked me who was the I'm in this this Netflix show I'm working on. They said, "Who's
00:46:31
the most powerful female tech executive?" And I said, "Gwen Shotwell." Would you agree with that? Yes, I would. Yeah. Yes, I would. Quiet. Yes. 100%. Uh, but
00:46:39
don't mention Cheryl Samber because you're not allowed to under terms of not allowed to. Nor my erectile dysfunction
00:46:44
nor and don't you dare make an SB joke. Do you know? And they all said I couldn't make any
00:46:50
religious references. Oh my god. Like what? Have you met me? You are completely godless. I don't know
00:46:57
what else to say anyway. And it's why I love you. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and
00:47:03
fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first or you go first? Okay, my fail. I have so many. Um,
00:47:11
In-N-Out, uh, billionaire owner. Her name's Lindsay Snyder. She's a granddaughter of the founders. I love
00:47:16
In-N-Out. Let me just say I love an In-N-Out Burger. My kids love In-N-Out. We've gone there many, many, many dozens
00:47:22
and hundreds of times and when lived in California. It's moving. It It's It's expanding. It's moving into the South.
00:47:29
Eventually, we'll get to the East Coast. Probably never. Um, she's moving to Tennessee blaming challenges running her
00:47:34
business and raising her family in California. Let me just say, Lindsay, I get it. You want to move to Tennessee?
00:47:40
She's quite she's a they're they're conservative is being kind. They're quite on that side, quite far to the
00:47:46
right. I still like your [ __ ] burgers, Lindsay. But my business is California made you made your family's
00:47:53
business. If you're going to leave, just leave or stay and help fix it in the way you want to. I just think these people
00:47:59
leaving a the state even if there's lots of challenges and I completely agree the the the the un the lack of gratitude
00:48:07
especially since you stick religious things on your thing is profound. California made you you have a
00:48:12
California vibe to you. You can't just take what you want and leave and then kick it on the way out. By the way, a
00:48:18
lot of those tech executives who left and kicked California are back in California because it's hot in Austin
00:48:24
and it's hot in Miami and you just can't make fetch happen in many of those places. So, I'm you move wherever you
00:48:30
want, honey, but and your burgers are fantastic, but stop like kicking a a state that really did make your family
00:48:37
as wealthy as it is. That's my issue with her. Again, please eat it in and out, but Lindsay, you're ungrateful and
00:48:43
terrible in that regard. In my positive thing, I would say everyone needs to watch The Guilded Age this season. It's
00:48:48
so good. If you like, you know, wealth porn and all this stuff, Carrie Coons plays Bertha. Uh, I just love her. Every
00:48:56
single person on that show I love. Um, and it's really fun if you want to sort of live in another billionaire era
00:49:02
essentially and watch them manipulate each other in all kinds of early America. It's It's the third season is
00:49:08
really hitting its stride and it's super um soapy also and really fun and it they
00:49:14
do a great job on costumes. It's the same guy who did Downtown Abbey. Um it's great. It's really fun and I'm really
00:49:19
enjoying the third season along with the recent season of um um the Sex in the City spin-off. Uh and Just Like That. People are a lot of hate watching it, but it's totally enjoyable. Same thing.
00:49:30
HBO is really and it is it's people are hate watching it. So awful. No, but I'm telling you, it's
00:49:36
it's like going up in the ratings cuz it's like people are hate watching it or whatever. The last episode was actually
00:49:41
quite good. Um I I like Sarah Jessica Parker. I love her actually. And um I just think it's doing really well. I like Look, it's winning. So, whatever. However, the winning both of those shows are doing really well for HBO. Good job,
00:49:54
HBO. Thank you. Go ahead. Uh yeah. Um I've just looked at I haven't watched The Guilded Age. Um Carrie Kuno I thought gave the best monologue in the White Lotuses. Uh she's
00:50:05
in it, right? Uh yes. And Cynthia Nixon's in both uh both the Sex in the City one and also
00:50:11
this one. She plays she's in both she's in both shows. Anyway, it's great. It's a great show. It's a great show. Terry
00:50:16
Coons is so good. Um I my win is uh I just uh interviewed uh Governor Whitmer, Gretchen Whitmer, and it just struck me every time I talked to I I think it's so easy to be really cynical about our
00:50:30
elected officials. I think when you get to when you when you talk to a lot of these people, you know, raised by
00:50:38
raised by a single mother, um, two daughters, three stepsons, um, you know, very open about, didn't have her [ __ ] together in high school, went to Michigan State, then got her act together, went to law school, and just a
00:50:50
very impressive person. And, and it just reminded me that there really are a lot
00:50:56
of people who are give up a lot of economic upside to be great public servants. and I enjoyed the conversation
00:51:03
with her. So, I don't know. My win is uh Governor Whitmer that and Michigan does a pretty good job of being pretty
00:51:08
bipartisan. They have economic growth there. They good quality of life, trying to keep affordability
00:51:13
or, you know, building a lot of housing, great universities. Um they are go Michigan. Do you think
00:51:19
she'll run? Just curious from talking to her. I don't think she will. Uh I assume that anyone who who calls me
00:51:26
and comes on my podcast is running for president. Okay. I don't Why would they do that? to hang out with like my charming wenis
00:51:32
joke. She likes a good penis joke, I'm sure. She spent an hour and a half on my podcast with me. Anyone who calls anyone
00:51:38
who takes an interest in me is um usually asking is asking for money or finding room for president. Well, maybe both. By the way, immediately heard from uh uh
00:51:50
public broadcasting, what's it called? PBS, NPR, KBS. PBS. Yeah, go ahead. PD the Corporation for Public. As soon
00:51:57
as I said I was donating money, I immediately that that minute, good for them, they called you. Good for them. I got a a nice email from the director
00:52:03
of development saying, "I'm here to facilitate the wire the wire and then said, we'd love we'd love to set up a
00:52:10
call and hear about your vision." And I'm like, "Oh god, here we go. Here we go. Here's the check. Give
00:52:15
Here you go." Anyways, my win is the great state of Michigan and Governor Whitmer. Um, my fail is I'm really on
00:52:21
this thing. I think we should I'd like to see a Democrat or somebody propose legislation that unless it's in uh
00:52:27
unless it's in the agency of a military operation or a national security threat.
00:52:33
Um I just don't think any civic employee should ever be allowed to wear masks. I just I find
00:52:40
um if you look at what's going on uh the Obama administration was actually deporting two to threex per month the
00:52:47
number of immigrants as the Trump administration. So what do we have here? We have something that is ineffective
00:52:54
that is purely for performance and fear. And when a government is now getting more funding than the FBI uh just to
00:53:00
instill fear in citizens and create distractions and cosplay macho uh you got to think well not only is that strange but also the thing that leads to bad behavior and creates that that
00:53:12
atmosphere of fear that is ineffective is a lot of it is these masks. And I've been thinking a lot about identity. I just don't think uh people who we pay to
00:53:24
enforce the law to perform a civic function should be hiding their identity. Agree. That's the that's that's the life
00:53:31
they've chosen. Well, look, if you're a Navy Seal doing special ops, I get it. If you're if
00:53:36
you're a pilot agent, yeah, whatever it might be, I get it. But if you're if you're um um showing up
00:53:44
to Home Depot, take the [ __ ] mask off. I want to see who you are. I want to see how you acquit yourself. I want
00:53:49
to see that you have some sort of fidelity to the law and just uh uh hold yourself to a certain level of humanity
00:53:56
when people know it's a pretty basic standard to to hold your actions to your identity. And the people who should be most who should have the most responsibility for that are the people
00:54:09
charged with upholding our laws and giving people confidence that their tax dollars and their government are
00:54:14
acquitting themselves in a in an honorable decent way. Anyways, I'm um I and by the way, I don't think if you're
00:54:20
engaging in hate speech on campus, I'm not sure you should be allowed to wear a mask either. And I don't know if you can
00:54:26
enforce that, but I would like to see the chancellors of universities say if you show up and u just to be clear,
00:54:34
show your face. Show your face. Yeah. Look, if you want to show up and start saying things, masks are not
00:54:40
allowed. And that's probably less enforceable. Probably the other the other one is too.
00:54:45
Probably. But I agree. Government boys certainly should. That's a good one. When's the last time you ate at In-N-Out?
00:54:51
Oh, just the last time I was in San Francisco. I eat it all the time. Every time. My brother My brother lives and
00:54:57
when I go see Jeff. Um he has one I when I go south to silicon. I I eat my kids love it. I have the one with with the lettuce. I don't with the um what's it called? When you eat it with with just
00:55:08
lettuce with animal style. Yeah. No, animal style. That's what Alex eats. That's when you have all that crap
00:55:14
on it. like Alex eats animal style that has all kinds of I don't have the heart for it. Um but
00:55:21
it's great. It's wonderful. Their shakes are good. Their fries die in 5 seconds, but they're delicious in that 5 seconds
00:55:26
that exists. I love them. I still think she should be grateful to California and stop like pissing on it. Anyway, um we
00:55:33
want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:55:39
the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe. Last week on On with Carol Swisser, I spoke
00:55:45
with writer and former advice columnist Eugene Carol and her lead attorney Robera Kaplan. Two badasses. Since Trump
00:55:51
started defaming Carol, she's gotten hundreds if not thousands of threats, including death threats. But she's not backing down and she's waiting to get
00:55:58
her money. And she's closer than ever to getting the first payment. We'll see about the second, but it looks like she probably will will get them. Let's
00:56:04
listen to a clip. I don't care if they shoot me. I don't care. I'd like to get shot in the arm. I like to get shot. I don't want to be
00:56:10
shot in the head and dead. I don't care. I do not care. I want everybody in the country to get off their lazy asses and walk outside. Look at their neighbors. That's what I'd like people to do. It's
00:56:21
stupid to be afraid. Why live your life that way? I've been here 81 years. I'm not going to waste the last of it worrying about that guy in marmalade colored makeup. I really like her.
00:56:33
Go girl. Go girl. She's so badass. She's Listen to it. He's joyful and she won her
00:56:39
cases, both jury trials, and he keeps uh making trouble. I think that shows you Robera Kaplan did an amazing job. She also def uh won against the uh the [ __ ] in Charlottesville. She's she's
00:56:51
a winner um in many ways. So, we'll see. Uh that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and
00:56:56
subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Newman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and her Todd engineered
00:57:07
this episode. Thanks also to J Burroughs, Miss Sea, and Dan Shalon. Nash Kura is Vox Media's executive
00:57:13
producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New
00:57:19
York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another
00:57:25
breakdown of all things tech and business. Car, have a great rest of the week.