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Every election is a choice, not a marriage proposal. We're not hiring a priest, we're hiring a senator.
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>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Carara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Galloway. >> With just a week to go before Maine
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Senate primary, Graham Platner, the presumptive Democratic nominee, is facing his latest controversy. Multiple
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outlets reported over the weekend that Platner's wife told a campaign aid last
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year that her husband sent sexually explicit texts to several women outside the marriage. Um, by the way, this
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campaign person had a falling out with Platner and has dropped a dime, which is has its own ethical considerations.
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Platner is calling these reports gossip from a former staffer and accused the media of journalistic malpractice. Not
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as of this recording, none of the women involved in in the text exchanges have come forward. Platner's wife, Amy
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Gertner, released a video, which I thought was fascinating over the weekend defending her husband and their
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marriage. Let's listen because it was really quite something to to listen to.
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It makes me really angry, um, disappointed, and I find it really shameful that there's a
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group of media outlets and people who are willing to spread gossip um, instead of talking about real issues
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that Graham is is running on like healthcare and education and child care. As I said,
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it's the, you know, this cont, this has been a controversial campaign. You know,
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he reportedly has an active account on kicks, a private messaging app sometimes used for sexing. He's faced scrutiny, of
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course, about his Nazi symbol tattoo. He later expressed regret and covered it up. There were posts from a deleted
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Reddit account recent, all manner of sex, you know, jokes about sexual assault, and he's also apologized for
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that. It's a really interesting issue, and lots of people disagree on this. I I
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I'll tell you what I think in a second, but there's Platner appears to be the
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real chance of unseating Republican Susan Collins and uh who is the zombie of all senators. He's been leading in
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recent polls. Um I personally, I'm going to just very quickly say I think voters
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don't care about this. I don't. And I thought his wife handled it well. Um I
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have others. I had an argument with Amanda this weekend. She doesn't like the Nazi tattoo. She doesn't like this.
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Um, I feel as if if they if the husband and wife are working it out, it remind me a little when Hillary Clinton did I
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should I stand by my man when he had those Jennifer Flowers things? Reminds me a little bit of that. Um, turned out
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to be a pretty good president and not everything. Not of course the Monominsky stuff, but um, uh, it's a really
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interesting question. I don't get bothered by it as much, none of it. Um, I think he's an he's, as Amanda Litman
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correctly said, he's someone who had a drinking problem as a Marine, probably
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got that tattoo, has some mental health challenges, which he's trying to overcome, marriage problems, which he's,
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his wife is insisting they're going to counselors and overcoming. I'm not so
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sure in the era of Trump this matters at all. So, what do you think? >> Look, okay, every election is a choice,
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not a marriage proposal. We're not hiring a priest, we're hiring a senator. Do you want to make sure that
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women's rights aren't continued to be rolled back? Do you want a more responsible economic policy? Do you want
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different um approaches to labor that raise the wages of nurses and students? Do you want something regarding fiscal
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sanity? Do you want to stop have a check against the unfettered unprecedented corruption, but we're going to talk
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about [ __ ] tattoos and sexing? I mean the the obsess the obsession with personal purity has become a luxury
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belief and it folks if your house is on fire you don't ask whether the firefighter has problematic DMs
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>> right right >> now having said that >> right >> the comm's person for the platner
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campaign should be fired >> you don't go after media you don't say
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this is gossip you don't say these are texts he said it was >> it was journalist IC malpractice. Guess
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what? These texts are accurate. >> The reporting has been accurate. >> Good for you, Scott.
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>> The response should be the following. I am an imperfect man. I have demonstrated
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terrible judgment on several occasions in my marriage and I have a great marriage. What about you? What about
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you? That are we going to continue to have one strike and you're out? I'm a
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Jew. I don't love a Totten comp tattoo. Okay, if he gets drunk one night and
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gets a stupid [ __ ] tattoo, the fact that he's trying to protect our liberties the next day and might be
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blown up by an IED, he gets a hall pass. So, okay folks, if you want to keep applying purity tests, we end up with an
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incompetent running against a 9/11 denier in Los Angeles. We're not going to have any candidates,
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>> right, >> running. So, one, stop the purity tests. And two, the the Platner campaign,
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it's not the crisis that brings people down, >> right? >> It's their inability to own it. I [ __ ]
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up. >> Did you What? Did you watch his wives thing? I thought it was It reminded me a
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lot of the Hillary Remember when Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton sat down? When
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they sat down together on 60 Minutes? >> Yeah. It was really interesting to me.
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It had a lot of echoes of that. I thought, you know, someone said to me like, "Oh, she looks like someone who's
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the wife's in denial." I'm like, "No, I think she seems to not be in denial. She
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understands his problems." And I think it just reminded me a great deal of that. Um, and there's, you know, as a
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person, you can have com as a personal thing, you have comments about people on a political thing. I I'm like, I want to
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talk about this idea of imperfect allies that you and I have talked about. Obviously, I'd heard it first from Sarah
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McBride, but uh oh, Representative Sarah McBride, who has plenty of reasons to be
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angry to people and isn't um she's a writer named David Gate posted about it
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on Substack. Let me read a quote. Working with someone toward a shared goal does not require believing they are
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morally perfect. Requires believing the goal itself matters enough to justify strategic alignment. He goes on to say,
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"The planet is on fire, as you noted just now, Scott, while many people are
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still conducting background checks on one another's vibes." So talk about that
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concept because it's a really it's a really difficult one for many people to
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get around this guy. Many people supported him. Others were like no we have to we have to like have background
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checks. So what do you think about that? Can people get to that idea of for I guess forgiving people for their
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imperfections or >> one of the reasons we're seeing a crash in birth rates
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is a lack of dancing. And that is a dancing is a key component or a key mating ritual. And when you
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dance, typically it helps if you drink a little bit. The anti-alcohol movement is
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hurting it. But more than anything, and there was a wonderful Tik Tok on this by
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some young man, and I thought, God, this was so powerful. People have a camera on them all the
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time. >> Yeah, they do. 19-year-old men don't want to dance because they're worried
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about or they don't they don't want to take risks like dancing like approaching
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a a romantic a potential expressing romantic interest because they're worried one false move and you're out
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everything in a digital world. So unless we move to at least some basic notion of
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as our digital world increases and everything we've done is going to be recorded and potentially used against us
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unless we have a little bit more grace and okay what's interesting here is that
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I just hope the same thing holds and that is if the Republicans decide the best candidate for a Senate seat in
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Texas is someone whose wife divorced him on biblical grounds if they can >> and who has a history of fraud If we can
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decide that this guy can have his finger on the button and be the most powerful person in the world while he's banging
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adult uh movie stars while his wife is home nursing. And to a certain extent, I'm kind of like, I don't care if the
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pilot is a good person. I want someone who's really good at flying the [ __ ]
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plane. So, I think the same thing needs to go to our politics. I just hope that the same what I'll call focus on
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perceived effectiveness is the same for Democrats. And I am still ripe angry at Senator Gillibrand who thought a
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seven-minute run for president was worth kicking Senator Al Franken out. The Democrats want to walk around and say,
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"Well, we'll have our dignity." Okay, hold on to your dignity as a 15-year-old
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has her pelvis broken cuz she's forced to carry a child to term. But yeah, you
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you kicked Platner out. >> Is there something that there should be a line? Like obviously
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>> I think at some point if it I mean, let me put it this way. If Graham Platner
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was was, you know, it it ended up that he was kind of fond of wearing a white hood
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>> and was was constantly engaging in anti-semitic behavior, then that that
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that tattoo isn't an errant mistake from a youthful soldier. >> It's a pattern. The corruption of the
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Trump family is a pattern. This is not This is This speaks to their character. But folks, all of us have made mistakes.
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I I I I mean, okay, Barack Obama doesn't appear. We can't seem to find a mistake
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on President Obama. >> I can't, but go ahead. >> Well, okay. But you know what I mean. Or
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scandal, >> right? powerful men um are under the illusion that that they mistake
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kindness for sexual interest. And as they become more powerful, power corrupts and they're more likely to
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believe that they're immune from standard norms and engage in stupid reckless behavior. By the way, more
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women do that than they get credit for. I will I will argue that it's it infects
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a lot more men than women, but you know, Secretary Gnome was banging her number two on government property. So,
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>> yeah, she did a lot of work for that. Yeah, she counts for 10, Matt, I have to say. But
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>> oh man, >> look, I don't I I I saw this and I was like, okay, at what point at what point
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I'm hoping we've passed the purity test on the Democratic side, >> but more than anything, I want to call
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the Platner campaign and say, >> "Oh, >> stop attacking." Yeah. Stop attacking
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the >> Don't say it's gossip or it's not accurate reporting. >> It's been corroborated.
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>> I think the point they were trying to make is shouldn't we be focusing on the
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important issues and that's all they needed to say. I think the sec first part should have been removed, right?
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Just say, you know what, we get why people might stare at this. It feels like a traffic accident and it kind of
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is, but let's focus on the real matters. I have a question. Do you think we're
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imperfect allies? I think we are a little >> imperfect allies. >> Yeah. Like people you don't always agree
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with everything and but I think you I I think that I mean the reality is Cara is
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I'm a we're both progressives and the fact disagree on things. Yeah. where the
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real progress needs to be is between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans. I mean, if if the two, you
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know, on almost every major issue, you and I are within two basis points of each other in terms of actually what we
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believe. We might believe in tech, you know, we might have differences around >> text and tone or whatever. But what we
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really need, I mean, a couple things. One, I think this is we have to from a young age start thinking, "All right,
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folks, unless you don't want to unless you want to live a life with a fake user
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account and VPN for fear you ever do anything wrong, we're going to have to demonstrate more grace with each other."
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The Democrats applying these purity tests to themselves. It's just like that. The Republicans are just laughing
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that we would do this. >> Like, people be naughty. Like, people be naughty.
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>> Have at it. But the thing that really the Platiner campaign, Graham Platiner,
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should do the following. I've had I've demonstrated terrible judgment numerous times.
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>> He has on other issues. Yeah. >> Numerous times in my in my professional
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and personal life. >> Yeah. >> I've also served my country. I think I'd
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be a great senator. And by the way, I have a fantastic marriage. >> Yeah. >> So have at it, folks. If you want to if
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you want to engage in this stuff, I realize it's titillating. Have at it. All he's doing and his campaign are
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doing is keeping the story alive by denying it and by attacking the media. >> I don't think there's anything wrong
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with the media reporting this because well I I do have a I have to say I'd like to know I I'd like to know a little
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more about this campaign person who keeps dropping dimes on this guy and what her agenda is. I have to say she's
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been doing it a lot. She she wants she's mad and I want to know I'd like to know
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about her in specifics also. That's what I would say the media needs to do a
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little bit more of because I need to understand what the source's motivations
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are and she's not here to protect us, I don't think. Anyway, um let's move on.
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Uh self-help podcaster J Shetty has signed a deal to bring a video version of his show exclusively to Spotify and
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Netflix. Another one of these deals, which is interesting. The deal is reportedly over worth over hund00
00:13:28
million over multiple years. Who knows? Um Shetty and his previous partner iHeart uh media parted ways. They could
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not come to terms. This is something happening. Obviously Scott and I went through a bunch of these, not this
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amount of money, but it's a really interesting um that Netflix >> I hate to break it to you, but over 5
00:13:46
years we're getting more than this. >> Okay. >> And that's why we're in Perfect Allies,
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as you realize on bank. >> Yeah, we're pretty high on the news list this week. I was noticing we're moving
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up. We still haven't passed Megan Kelly, but we will. Um >> we're coming for you, Megan.
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>> We're coming for you, Megan. And not like that way in any way physically or
00:14:03
just >> No. In the Apple podcast ranking. podcasting, let's be clear, so you don't
00:14:08
make a show out of it. Um, so, uh, but talk about these deals because they're
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really because you can't go on YouTube. It's all of them, right? Is that And he
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was he did it the the normal way, which was an iHeart deal. You could do those. There's a bunch of companies like this,
00:14:22
but now this was a this is for Spotify and Netflix, which is interesting. And Spotify had tried, you know, the Rogan
00:14:28
thing obviously they did signed a bunch of deals that didn't work out. Um, you
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know, and so talk a little bit about this. What do you how do you look at this market right now and what do these
00:14:37
indicate to you? >> Well, first off, uh let me just say with with Jay, I'm really happy for him. I I
00:14:43
don't know him well, but I know him. I've been on his podcast a couple times.
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I think he's a lovely man and I think he does a good job. And essentially what he
00:14:52
realized is the most valuable media asset in podcasting isn't sports like it
00:14:57
is on cable TV. It's loneliness. He figured how to monetize the largest market in America and that is people who
00:15:04
need a friend. And so in Okay, so I'm happy for Jay. I think he does a great
00:15:10
job. And by the way, I cannot get over and I think it's total [ __ ] all the
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hate that Jay and Mel Robbins get. >> They get a lot >> and it's just like, okay, don't listen
00:15:20
to their podcasts. They're not bad. >> That's how I feel. I don't I'm not a big
00:15:23
fan of I mean, I like them. I like Mel personally, but I just I get why people find it annoying. It's a little bit
00:15:29
much. >> Fine, then don't listen to it. But >> I was literally in an elevator and
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someone says, "Do you know Mel Robbins? I find her very annoying." I'm like,
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"Okay, >> then don't listen." >> That's what I said.
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>> Of nothing. >> I mean, the reality is any bestselling author, if you say bestselling author is
00:15:43
full of [ __ ] you get elevated in the the ratings. So, people are [ __ ] posting
00:15:47
every bestselling author to get another 70 bucks from from [ __ ] TikTok. Have at it. But I've never understood the
00:15:53
hate for Jay and Mel. I think they're both nice people doing their best, doing
00:15:58
good work. And if you don't like their work, which I understand, it's not for
00:16:00
everybody. You know, the whole kind of monk rap gets a little bit old sometimes.
00:16:05
>> I'm not a fan of the self-help stuff. >> Yeah, fine. Then don't listen. That's
00:16:08
fine. >> Yeah. >> But there's two things here. This dynamic that's colliding is the
00:16:12
following. The largest the fastest growing ad supported medium is not even it's not even YouTube in terms of
00:16:22
revenue or or meta. It's podcasts. They think the I think the ad revenue is going to be up 21% this year on
00:16:29
podcasting. In addition, 40% of I think about 20% of ours and 40% of Propy Markets pods are watched or
00:16:38
listened to on a TV cuz they're streamed off of YouTube. So essentially what a
00:16:42
podcast is, it's a television show >> for 10% of the production value or cost.
00:16:50
>> So the means of production of TV is being arbed into podcasting. And now 55%
00:16:54
of Americans have listened to a podcast recently. So in addition, the intimacy of the relationship advertisers really
00:17:02
like and the CPMs for Pivot are $45. The CPMs for CNN are 13. And then you combine it with the following.
00:17:11
There's this dirty secret of podcasting called the RSS feed. And slowly but surely, you build up subscribers. And
00:17:17
every time a show comes out, it's automatically downloaded to an iPhone and it's counted as a listen. So the
00:17:24
people who've been in it for 3, 5, 10 years, as you have, who have built large
00:17:30
RSS feeds have moes. So what you have is a series of acquirers going, we need growth. Let's go find a podcast and a
00:17:41
small number of podcasts that actually have large RSS feeds because you cannot uh you know when LandMen comes out it's
00:17:49
a hit overnight. It's hard for a podcast if you look at the top 10 podcasts even
00:17:55
a in any category they're usually the original gangsters or they're people
00:17:59
who've been around for a while. >> You're absolutely right. So you have
00:18:02
demand and you have sequestered or pretty big moes which all adds up to large acquisition prices relative to
00:18:12
their revenues. I bet Jay does 10 to 20 million a year. So he's getting sold at
00:18:16
10 to five times revenues which is a lot. But you're about to see and we've
00:18:21
been predicting this and I'm talking our own book here but I've been saying this
00:18:24
for the last two years. There just aren't when Spotify, iHeart, Sirius, you know, and James Murdoch go looking
00:18:33
for podcasts. There aren't that many of scale, >> you know. It's really interesting and it
00:18:39
is the cost structure and which people don't understand and it is television
00:18:42
because our YouTube audience find uh revenues are growing pretty smartly. Um and it's a really interesting way to
00:18:49
deliver news. that's, you know, it's it's what people want, which is why
00:18:53
you're seeing the podification of network news. I just don't think it's
00:18:57
going to work. I think you either just have to go this way or not. I don't think you can switch that audience over
00:19:03
because they're older and they like the way it is. So, you're going to see these
00:19:06
declines like you see at CBS because they don't like the new stuff you're
00:19:09
doing. Um, you it's kind of just like a you need to do a hard reset with a lot
00:19:14
of this stuff. Um, but I agree. I think it's interesting and they can actually
00:19:18
usually make the money back. But the foregoing of YouTube versus Netflix is a really interesting and it'll depend on
00:19:25
the on on what your product is at any one time whether you want to sort of be in the safe harbor of Netflix, Spotify
00:19:33
or you want to be out in the open in the in a YouTube Google world essentially. Um which I people can mix and match too
00:19:40
by the way which is what's great about it, right? Presumably. >> Well, the most powerful media company in
00:19:46
the world that's on a tech. Well, the most powerful >> saying you're a giant hand there. Look
00:19:49
at that. Keep put your big hand up there. Oh. Oh. Okay. >> I'm very self-conscious of my hands. I
00:19:53
have my I have my mother's hands. They're not my hands I in the competition for my
00:19:59
worst feature. It is the Olympics. I mean, it is there's a lot of competitors. Yeah.
00:20:03
>> But my hands are right up there. I'm very self-conscious of my hands. That's
00:20:06
why I don't wear jewelry. >> They're perfectly nice. Anyways, so uh
00:20:10
Netflix I think is the most powerful media company in the world or traditional media company and they're
00:20:14
getting into podcasting and overnight they're going to be able to whoever they
00:20:20
decide to distribute or acquire overnight that podcast is going to be I mean they'll be king they'll be the new
00:20:25
king and queen makers of podcasting. >> I thought it was bad news for iHeart
00:20:29
I'll tell you that was a good >> I think that's right. iHeart is a
00:20:33
company that's gone I think through bankruptcy once or twice and they have to be economically rational. They don't
00:20:38
have access to cheap capital. So they if iHeart shows up and Spotify and Netflix
00:20:43
show up to a bidding war, >> you go with them. >> I don't know who wins. I just know
00:20:46
iHeart loses. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> iHeart can't can't justify the
00:20:50
valuations these guys can justify. you know, if you know even a serious basically I think you're going to see
00:20:57
Spotify and Netflix take the whole value of the podcast ecosystem up. And not only that,
00:21:04
if your podcast does a 10 million downloads a month, you're worth four times the podcast that does 5
00:21:12
million because it is so hard in this environment to find scale. It's very similar to cable TV in the sense that
00:21:21
the there's a small number of personalities who extract the majority of the economics.
00:21:25
>> Yeah. >> And it's the same it's the same in podcasting. But but I want to finish
00:21:29
where I started. >> I'm really happy for Jay. I like it when people >> he's been in the business for 10 years.
00:21:34
He's a nice man. >> He has worked at it. Yeah, he has worked at it. >> Good for him.
00:21:37
>> Yeah. Well, just don't listen to him if you don't like him. That's my feeling on
00:21:40
a lot of things. >> He and I have been sexing in related news >> on kicks. Kicks is a dreamy. Let me just
00:21:46
tell you screamy. He has the most beautiful eyes. >> Latner definitely picked the dirty one.
00:21:50
I'll just say he picked the dirty one. Kicks is dirty. >> I don't know anything about how would
00:21:55
you even know that? I don't know any of these >> because I know all these sites. I don't
00:21:58
use any of them. >> Really? Do you go on talk about do you offer other to powerwash other lesbians
00:22:04
backyard? You little saucy mink. You >> Scott, I fix my power washer this weekend. I was very excited. Anyway, uh
00:22:10
>> so just on that note before we go, I think the new thing a guy asked me for
00:22:15
dating advice and he's like I'm never going to go graduate from college. What
00:22:18
will I ever be able to find a woman? And I'm like I think the new sexy is bluecollar romance and that is
00:22:24
>> no poetry. Don't send a car for her. >> Fix her [ __ ] refrigerator. I think
00:22:29
that gets women really hot. >> Look at a woman's stressors >> and treat them like they're your enemy.
00:22:35
Fill up her car with gas. >> All right. Okay. Like >> Amanda is not impressed with my power
00:22:40
washing. She makes fun of me, but that's fine. >> I think if you want to get a woman, I
00:22:46
think humor is the ultimate aphrodesiac with women behind maybe money, but I think a a decent runner up is to look at
00:22:53
a woman's acts of service. And if you know how to fix [ __ ] you know, move your girlfriend, show up and fix fix the
00:23:00
air conditioner, like attack her problems like they're your enemies. >> I like it. Self-help from Scott
00:23:06
Galloway. Okay, Scott, let's go. In a quick break, when we come back, big IPO
00:23:10
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Morgan Stanley. Scott, we're back with breaking news. Anthropic just confidentially filed its
00:24:00
IPO with the SEC. It has not disclosed the size or terms the offering. I'm excited for you to read it for me and
00:24:05
tell me what's in there. But before that, Anthropic hit a major milestone last week, passing OpenAI to become the
00:24:11
most valuable AI startup in the world. The company announced a 65 billion funding round. I can't believe I'm
00:24:16
saying billion round that values at 965 billion, very close to uh very close to the top. Um to put things in
00:24:24
perspective, uh OpenAI announced a $730 billion valuation back in February, but it took the company to around a decade
00:24:32
to reach that number. It just keeps escalating. Anthropic, which was founded 5 years ago, has beaten the valuation in
00:24:38
half the time. Uh did anyone see this coming? Scott Galloway did. Let's listen
00:24:42
to Scott's prediction from February. >> As we sit here today, I actually think
00:24:46
that Anthropic or in the next 12 months, this one of our predictions is going to
00:24:50
be worth more than open AI. Very well done. What does this valuation mean for Anthropics IPO as well as OpenAI and
00:24:56
SpaceX? By the way, SpaceX is now targeting an IPO valuation of 1.8 trillion after feedback from advisers
00:25:02
and investors according to Bloomberg. That's a step down from the initially reported 2 trillion. Uh it's still too
00:25:07
much. Um uh anyway, uh thoughts? What do you think? You got that one right, and we'll be looking at the the filing when
00:25:15
we get to be able to see it, but we don't know a lot yet. I don't think any
00:25:18
company in the world has the momentum right now of Anthropic. And it was built a genius move. They went after the
00:25:25
enterprise market. And I mean the pivot, you have never seen a number two this viciously become
00:25:32
the number one this fast. >> Yeah. >> You know, you've never seen Avis
00:25:35
overtake Hertz this fast. You've never seen Pepsi overtake Coke like this this
00:25:39
fast. And the thing the thing that's so impressive about this isn't the valuation. It's the speed.
00:25:48
Google took 20 years to reach a trillion dollars. Anthropic got there in five. It
00:25:54
was founded in 2021 and if it had been founded in Amsterdam, it would be one of the five most valuable companies in
00:25:59
Europe. And it did it in five years. >> I mean, it's it's not capital formation.
00:26:05
It's it's financial teleportation. Five years. Zero to a trillion dollars.
00:26:10
>> Yeah. >> We keep talking about how AI might transform the world. May maybe, maybe
00:26:15
not. But it's definitely transforming capital formation. And I mean, the one advantage America
00:26:22
has is that we will do these $60 billion rounds after two or three years. And in
00:26:29
Europe, they just don't have that type of capital formation. They just >> I want you to give me the downside
00:26:34
because you were you definitely called this, but what would be the worry for you of maybe all three IPOs or this one?
00:26:41
What would be the warning signs or something you would pay attention to because you're not always fully like up
00:26:47
and to the right as a person? >> Oh, these stocks and the collective hallucination around the valuations
00:26:54
here. One or more of these stocks is going to be off 40 to 70% and it's going to send
00:26:59
the US and the global economy into a recession. The US has become a giant bet on AI and these companies are
00:27:05
overvalued. The technology will survive. These valuations won't. There's just I'm
00:27:10
sorry SpaceX at 100 times revenues you know open AI at what's it going on at 20 every every big company we follow
00:27:20
has in the last 10 years been off between 40 and 70% in a 12-month period that's fine that's part of the cycle of
00:27:28
high growth companies up and down the difference here is that we've bet the entire economy on these magnificent 10
00:27:35
93% of our GDP growth is coming from AI high capex. So when these companies, you
00:27:41
know, they always say company, if the American economy sneezes, the world catches a cold. We're going to catch
00:27:47
[ __ ] pneumonia, right? >> When the expectations, an MIT professor just came out with a study saying 95% of
00:27:53
CFOs aren't seeing the ROI on their investments in AI. >> As we noted last week with the Uber uh
00:27:59
COO, right, talking about about the money spent, >> the the danger here is the following. Uh
00:28:06
folks, I I don't think I think Anthropic is the only one of these three that has
00:28:11
a reasonable shot at trading above its IPO price 12 months out. There's just
00:28:18
gravity. No basketball player has ever been in the air for more than 1 second. For some reason, 1 second is the limit.
00:28:26
None of these companies can justify their valuation unless they are able to literally destroy the labor market. I
00:28:34
just got off the I just got off a podcast with the CEO of Lily and I said AI as it relates to drug discovery
00:28:40
underhyped or overhyped. This is a measure guy and he's like overhyped. The the the incentives from Amazon that
00:28:49
the more you more tokens you use the more will compensate you. That shit's about to go away. And the first big
00:28:53
company that announces we're cutting back our AI spending, you know, you're going to see the GDP of
00:29:00
Germany come out of the market. And unfortunately the US market >> is is frothy because of that. Because of
00:29:06
that >> we're now concentrated the entire US economy is a bet on 10 companies.
00:29:11
>> You know I have to say months ago Mark Cuban said there's going to be a point
00:29:14
where tokens are being more expensive than people. Like and he wanted me to ask Daario that question. Yeah. It's a
00:29:20
great question. >> He was like I was interviewing him at an off-site thing and he's like that's the
00:29:24
question. When do people cost less than tokens? And tokens are getting too expensive which is interesting. Anyway,
00:29:29
we'll see what happens. But we'll I'm excited for you to read it for me. Um,
00:29:33
all right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, some updates on America's 250th celebration.
00:29:39
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apply. Scott, we're back with more news. America's 250th birthday. Will now be a
00:31:52
mega rally. Apparently, President Trump called for cancing the concert series at
00:31:56
the planned event after several musicians dropped out because they they were told it was nonpartisan. It's
00:32:00
obviously not nonpartisan. Instead, Trump suggested he should headline the event, calling himself the number one
00:32:06
attraction anywhere in the world, but there's a lot, you know, and now his name's going to be yanked off the the
00:32:11
Kennedy Center. A judge has ordered his name to be taken down. I again, a lot of
00:32:16
performative stuff, but still irritating. any predictions for the 250th celebration? It feels like no
00:32:21
one's any closer to that he is not backing down on on celebrating himself, including a $250 bill. Scott Besson has
00:32:28
soiled himself once again. So thoughts? >> Yeah, you know, it's obnoxious and we'd
00:32:33
like to think that it's bad for him, but you know, I hate to admit it as someone
00:32:37
who thinks about brands a lot. You could make an argument that the most successful consumer brand of the last
00:32:43
decade isn't Tesla, Apple, or Nike. It's Trump. And you know, >> he's put it out. He's used the
00:32:50
presidency to to >> That's the right analogy. It used to be a public office and now it's
00:32:55
increasingly an entertainment franchise. And I think he has I I just think Democrats, like Robert McNamera said, if
00:33:02
you want to defeat an an enemy, you have to empathize with them. There's just no
00:33:06
getting around it. The guy has an incredible feel for branding and marketing. And the product is awful. It
00:33:14
is It is like the greatest brand. what he's been able to do with this shitty a
00:33:19
product, an inconsistent product. >> The stakes, the water. >> It really is in incredible. I I think
00:33:25
this is quite frankly, I think this comes and goes. I don't think it's a big
00:33:28
story. What do you think? >> I don't I think it's it makes us all feel bad about America on the 250th
00:33:32
anniversary. I mean, I'm going to be somewhere far away uh from Washington. Um and I just think him I think all
00:33:38
these these artists pulling out was interesting that you know, they were like, "Yeah, no, they I think they see
00:33:44
what's going to Vermont. Isn't that where all >> That's where I'm going. That's
00:33:47
whereactly where I'm going. It's with Amanda's family. >> Did I get that right?
00:33:50
>> You did. >> Oh my god. Stereotypes are for a reason. >> Amanda's family has rebuilt their their
00:33:57
barn. They had a barn house and it was going to fall down and they rebuilt it and it's very lovely. And so we're going
00:34:02
up there. That's where we're going. >> I can't believe I got that right.
00:34:05
>> You totally got that right. Oh my god. Um anyway, um I'll trumpmp around and
00:34:10
hike. >> You got the dog guard for the German Shepherd in the back of the Subaru. Oh,
00:34:14
I don't have a dog. I would like to have a dog, maybe, but they mess up my beautiful yard work. Um, so cats don't
00:34:20
mess up yard work. They just bring in chipmunks into the house. Um, uh, no, I think it's just, you know, I remember.
00:34:27
Do you remember the 200th? I do. I do. I was I was a kid. I was at camp. I remember
00:34:32
>> I got a special commemorative coin from the Franklin Mint. >> Yeah. I really like the 200th. And I
00:34:38
felt very proud of this country at the time. And I feel like gh like why do you have to make everything so cheesy and
00:34:44
griy and gross like it would I'm excited for the 300th. I'll be dead but that's
00:34:50
okay. Um but I mean it's just it feels like grifty and gross. Although I did
00:34:55
recently run into um >> you might be around. Actually I'm going to call challenge on that. You'll be 13.
00:35:02
>> No I will not be around for that. Anyway I just ran into Ken Burns at something.
00:35:06
He always makes me feel better about about things. I just always I want to hang out with Ken Barn Burns in Vermont
00:35:12
and go hiking. That's what I want to do because I like listening to him tell
00:35:16
tales of our founding fathers and I feel better. >> Well, but but but just to that point, if
00:35:22
you want to feel better about America and this the space we're in and we're
00:35:26
incredible narcissists, we like to think that we're in uniquely good or uniquely
00:35:29
bad times. Folks, as bad as things are, things have been much worse in America and we've always been able to come back
00:35:35
stronger. >> Yeah. >> That's not to say you don't need to vote. You don't need to be alarmed. You
00:35:39
don't need to take action. But at 1.1% of America, American population controlled the government and it
00:35:44
happened to be the slave owners. 80 years ago, we were interning people in makeshift concentration camps because
00:35:49
their parents were or because they immigrated from Japan. We have been in pretty dark places before.
00:35:53
>> Yeah. Yeah, we have. >> Anyways, history makes me feel with Ken Burns in Vermont. That's my goal. Um,
00:35:58
anyway, last story. Blue Origin is facing a major setback ever. New Glenn rocket exploded during a test on a
00:36:03
launch pad last week. The company said all personnel were safe and described the incident as an anomaly. Jeff Bezos
00:36:08
posted on X, very rough day, but we'll rebuild whatever needs rebuilding and
00:36:11
get it back to flying. It's worth it. The explosion which damaged Blue Origin's launchpad, which is a critical
00:36:16
problem. It's a significant blow. Uh they've spent about a billion dollars on
00:36:20
it. I think it's a Cape Canaveral um to challenge SpaceX in the commercial space
00:36:25
race. And one of the things about the New Glenn is they can put up they're they're trying with their LEO system um
00:36:30
to put up lots of satellites. they have a couple hundred and and space uh Starlink has I don't know 10,000 or
00:36:37
close to 10,000 and so they've been trying to do this and these new Glenn rockets would put up I think 48 or 50 as
00:36:43
opposed to a couple that they put up in their smaller rockets. Um you know it's
00:36:48
a real problem for the launch pad they only had one for the big for the big one and for it to blow up on the launchpad
00:36:54
from what I understand I've been talking to a lot of rocket people is bad. Um, it
00:36:57
should have blown up in the air of all things because then they would have been able to preserve the launch pad. Um,
00:37:02
it's not great. It's not a great thing. And thank God Elon didn't didn't, you
00:37:07
know, go o on and on about it. He because he knows he blows up his own rockets frequently. Um, but it's a it
00:37:14
would be nice to have more than one uh in this area, although two of the same people, but still the compet
00:37:20
competition. Thoughts? >> I I just couldn't wait. Like as soon as I saw the explosion, I immediately
00:37:25
posted it on threads and said Bezos back on CNBC again. Um, which I thought was really good. It didn't get that many
00:37:33
likes, but I thought that was funny. Like my favorite I always like to hear the live broadcast because the the
00:37:39
individual >> and they're trained to do this. They always call an explosion an anomaly.
00:37:44
>> An anomaly. Yeah. >> Which is like calling my divorce a scheduling conflict.
00:37:50
It's like >> we can make jokes cuz nobody was gay. >> A disagreement. A mild disagreement.
00:37:56
>> Metal mangled. Yeah. >> You know, and and my favorite I it's like
00:38:01
>> I don't fully understand and this this happens all the time, but when a rocket
00:38:05
blows up on the launch pad, isn't that like failing a sobriety test in the parking lot?
00:38:10
>> Yeah. >> I mean, >> yeah. >> You I need to understand the physics,
00:38:14
but just to be clear, >> not good. One of the reasons private companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin
00:38:21
have succeeded or have caught in some way surpassed NASA is that they're allowed to move further out the risk
00:38:29
curve and explode rockets on the launchpad. If NASA did this, there's a feeling of government failure. They
00:38:36
can't take these kinds of risks. And to a certain extent, just as I feel like
00:38:40
you see need a certain number of bank failures every once in a while to show that you are allocating capital at close
00:38:46
to or near the efficient frontier of growth, you do I hate to say this, I think you do need a certain number of
00:38:52
explosions on the launchpad because what that says is >> and by the way my understanding is not a
00:38:58
single person was injured or killed here. >> That's right. >> This is a loss of capital from a company
00:39:03
that has access to a lot of capital. >> It's not good. It's not because they
00:39:07
were trying to get like think about it a couple hundred versus 10,000 satellites
00:39:11
like you >> but Elon's had them explode. This is a function of >> No, no, no. But he has 10,000 satellites
00:39:16
up there. This is this is everyone talks about Mars and everything else. This is
00:39:19
a race for satellite dominance. But only one company dominates at this point. And
00:39:24
so it's a setback in that they can't get dozens of these things up. They can get
00:39:28
a couple on these smaller rockets. And you know, they're trying very hard. It's
00:39:32
just it's still someone when they saw the explosion said to me, "Oh, look.
00:39:36
It's the Washington Post budget for a year like or something." I was sort of
00:39:40
laughed. It's true. He doesn't mind losing money here. And he's losing
00:39:43
money. Let's be clear. Um he he's hoping for a payoff later. Although looking at
00:39:47
the the rocket business at Spa SpaceX is not the greatest business in the world right now yet either. Well,
00:39:54
>> Starlink is Starink is >> it's got to drive him crazy that he's
00:39:58
behind >> he looks like he's behind a guy who's running six companies at the same time.
00:40:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and right now, you know, Blue Origin is looking less like NASA and more like
00:40:09
I don't know, Neiman Marcus with Propulsion. I mean, just like >> True. But, you know, there's summer
00:40:13
yaching to do. You know, I don't know if you know that, but that's Bezos's job
00:40:17
during the summer. >> I'm I told you I'm here for his midlife crisis.
00:40:21
>> Yeah, I know you like that. I think I've got invited back to the event he goes to
00:40:24
that I thought I was disinvited from because I thought Elon was going. I'm not going to tell you because I don't
00:40:28
want to get disinvited. >> God, I never get invited. >> How do you get invited to? What do they
00:40:32
think you're like? Like a psy. >> They think they can turn me, I think.
00:40:36
And by the way, I am a psy. You've listened to my interview. >> You can be turned. Actually, part of me
00:40:40
thinks that you can be. >> Oh, no. If I if I turn, it's going to be towards way to the left.
00:40:45
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Every day I get a little bit more Bernie. >> Oh, wow. Okay. All right. No, but but uh
00:40:50
>> people are always coming for you and really it irritates me especially cuz
00:40:54
they're irritating people that come for you anyway. >> Coming for you mean hating on me or
00:40:58
inviting >> wanting you to do stuff. I'm very irritated. >> That bothers you. I like that.
00:41:02
>> Bothers me. I'm like get get your mitts off my dick jokes at conferences.
00:41:08
>> Get your mitts off my imperfect ally. >> No, no. I told a dick joke right while
00:41:12
Anthony Blinkin was on stage. That was a that was a moment. >> Oh, okay. All right. He's a nice He's a
00:41:18
handsome man. >> Yeah, he's a handsome man. >> I I ran into him at the party recently.
00:41:22
>> I think people are scared of you. I think they're less scared of me.
00:41:24
>> I don't know. I never >> And they know I like to drink. I bring a
00:41:27
good vibe. >> All right. Okay. Not unfun. I'm going on the view anyway.
00:41:32
>> Oh, that is true. That's a big You know what? That's a That's a You would rather
00:41:35
be invited to be on the view than go to this thing. >> You're right. You're right. But I like
00:41:39
to just So because I like to see their discomfort when I'm there because I never really do anything. I'm quite
00:41:44
cordial. Oh, speaking of invitations and bringing this back to me. I'm going to
00:41:47
Brilliant Minds next week. >> Oh, you are? That's fun. I went to it many years ago. The first like
00:41:52
>> It's in Sweden, right? Yeah, it was lovely. It was very lovely. The sun
00:41:56
never sets, which [ __ ] with me. >> No, that's why I'm gone. I can't wait to
00:41:59
go to Star. >> The Sun Never Sets. And that was offsetting to me for some reason. It
00:42:03
just I couldn't stand it being so bright at midnight. That was Anyway, one more
00:42:07
quick break. We'll be back for Winds and Fails. Support for the show comes from
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00:43:01
AI, go to corweave.com/reforthing. Support for this show comes from Gusto. Let's just get straight to the point. If
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00:44:19
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I I Should you go first or should
00:44:24
>> No, you go first. I've been doing all the talk. >> Okay, I'm gonna win. I just interviewed
00:44:27
this young man, Theo Baker. It's right here. This is his book, uh, How to Rule
00:44:31
the World. Um, and it's about it's education and power at Stanford University. This is the kid who did all
00:44:37
those stories as a 17-year-old on the head of Stanford. Um, being part of a false he didn't falsify the information,
00:44:44
but several papers he had his name on did and he never moved to correct them. Um, just a he's the son of two
00:44:50
well-known Washington reporters. I'm not going to say their names because I he's
00:44:53
his own person. Wonderful book about power techn he's a technologist who loves technology. He's also an
00:44:59
astonishing reporter. uh just a great uh really great I felt so good for journalism. He started off as a and just
00:45:07
really is doing it got amazing reviews, How to Rule the World, Theo Baker. He's
00:45:10
very young. He's just graduating Stanford in two weeks. uh although he he's just run right over them with his
00:45:16
amazing reporting and this is a really interesting book including about this one group called How to Rule the World,
00:45:22
the course, the secret course that you have to get tapped for at Stanford and how they made so many um misshapen
00:45:29
entrepreneurs, mentally misshapen entrepreneurs. And I just it's nice to hear from a young person in this regard.
00:45:34
Um and I just think he's a really he has a big career ahead of him. >> That's nice. Um, yeah. And and Amy
00:45:40
Pascal has bought the book for a movie and >> he's the kids are all right. I always
00:45:45
when I did this interview, I felt the kids are [ __ ] all right. >> Uh, and it extends also to my kids. Like
00:45:50
Alex is killing it at his job. I can't say where it is, but it's a it's a big
00:45:54
car company and he's loving it and he's the enthusiasm is enormous. And Louisie
00:45:58
is working at a restaurant in San Francisco and he loves it in a political campaign. So, the kids are [ __ ] all
00:46:03
right. That's what I feel good about. So, um, >> named a car company. Let me get this. He
00:46:07
went to Michigan. >> There's a lot of them. I don't know. He's having a great time. He's having a
00:46:12
great time. He's learning so much and it's really wonderful for him. Um, he
00:46:16
asked me not to, so I'm not going to. Okay. My fail is I do think it's around
00:46:20
this uh Graham Platner thing. And I Amanda and I did have a disagreement about it. She's quite irritated by him.
00:46:26
>> Did you have hot sex after? >> No. No, we did not. We were exhausted
00:46:30
from all the children's parties. Um, let me say and my power washing. Um, let me
00:46:36
say this. I know this people don't like it, but at some point we just have to
00:46:41
this and I know people are going to say we have to have purity tests and you coming from white lady Cara, old white
00:46:47
lady Cara who has money, etc. I don't care. I just I never have cared for zeroing in on people's personal issues.
00:46:56
I can have personal feelings about it like friends who have shitty boyfriends or whatever, but Grand Platner's wife is
00:47:03
not my friend. I might have a different piece of advice for her if that was the case. And but I just feel like it's
00:47:09
their business. Like it's even even with Ken Paxton as much of a I think he's
00:47:14
more the fraudulent stuff with his wife. I don't it sounds like he's a liar and a
00:47:19
cheat in that way he handled it and treated her which says a lot about his judgment and I think that's pertinent
00:47:25
but I almost don't care even about that and and although there are some things
00:47:30
to learn and so I think the judginess of people has really got to stop it's got
00:47:34
and not only because the Republicans do it that's not the reason to do it it's
00:47:38
not kind and it's not and it's not there is a goal here and we cannot make people
00:47:44
feel like [ __ ] all the time for mistakes. I've made mistakes. Scott's made mistakes. Um I we're all imperfect
00:47:51
and that's that's what I think about. So it's a failure of our country to
00:47:55
continue on to in that down that road. We have to leave some things behind. Thank you.
00:48:00
>> Uh my win I just interviewed uh the CEO of Eli Lily, a guy named David Ricks,
00:48:06
and I I'm just fascinated with Lily. They made a huge bet on GLP-1 drugs as you know I'm I think a revolutionary. I
00:48:13
think GLP1 is going to be a more important technology than AI. And this company has uh quintupled its market cap
00:48:20
in the last 5 years. And one of the things I absolutely cuz they made a big bet on GLP1. GLP1's just 12 months ago
00:48:28
were averaging $1,000 a month. They've already been cut to $250 to $500. It's a
00:48:33
definition of elasticity. I think at some point these drugs are going to be less than $100 a month and maybe even
00:48:38
lower than that. And I think the demand will absolutely explode. So, I think the
00:48:42
market is doing a really good job here of trying to get these drugs to the people who need them the most. And I
00:48:47
think these drugs are just absolutely revolutionary in terms of everything from obviously from obesity, but
00:48:52
reduction in alcoholism, biting your nails, they're giving it to kids with social media addictions. I, you know, I
00:48:58
I think it's it's not about eating less, it's about wanting less. I just I'm
00:49:03
fascinated by these things. And this company, Eli Liy, is the first trillion dollar was the first pharmaceutical
00:49:08
company to breach a trillion dollars. It's the 13th most valuable company in
00:49:12
the world. And the thing I love about this place, it's not in San Francisco,
00:49:16
it's not in New York, it's not in London. Do you know where their headquarters are?
00:49:19
>> No, I don't. Where are they? >> Indianapolis. >> Oh, cool.
00:49:22
>> And this guy kind of reeks it. He went to Purdue, followed uh love of his life
00:49:28
to Indiana where he went to the Kelly School. They employ 50,000 people. It's
00:49:31
easily the most important company in Indiana if not the Midwest. But we spend so much time talking about the Bay Area
00:49:37
or New York. And I just love a trillion dollar company. >> That's a great interview for you. That's
00:49:41
a great interview. You've been you have been a very early person on GLP1s. >> I find them absolutely fascinating. Much
00:49:50
talk to someone who uses AI for their work and just loves it. And talk and if that person is also on GLP1, ask them
00:49:56
what's had a bigger impact on their life. >> I think if I could go short AI and long
00:50:01
GLP1, that would be my investment thesis for the next decade. Anyway, >> okay. great company,
00:50:07
CEO is just reeks of kind of Midwestern values and I'm glad they're just doing
00:50:12
so well. I think it they've made a huge bet and it's paying off in spades. My
00:50:16
fail was going to be what you said. I I I personally don't trust anyone who hasn't said something stupid or drank
00:50:24
too much at some point or I don't know had failings in their m I I I always wonder okay should we stab this person
00:50:33
with a fork to see if they're actually human when they present this pure image
00:50:36
of themselves and I'm sure those people are out there but you're you know
00:50:42
there by the grace of God go I and if you want if you want better candidates folks
00:50:47
focus on whether they'd be a good [ __ ] senator. They're not they don't
00:50:50
need to be your rabbi. Like, do you think they're smart around policy? Do you think they demonstrate good
00:50:55
leadership skills? And if you look at the best leaders in terms of actually moving America forward, sometimes
00:51:01
they're not exactly priests. I mean, anyway, I But where my fail is, you you summarize that more
00:51:10
articulately than I did, but where I go is the real fail. Jesus Christ. >> Yeah. Platiner. Just own it.
00:51:18
>> Own it. Yep. >> Own it. >> Own it. >> I've made a mistake. I've demonstrated
00:51:22
terrible judgment in my marriage. >> Boy, yes. Me, too. >> And I have a great marriage.
00:51:29
>> Yeah. >> And guess what? The majority of people in America who have demonstrated
00:51:33
terrible judgment in relationships can still have great marriages. And it says something about her. It says
00:51:39
something about me. It says something >> I get better. I have to say I'm better
00:51:42
at this marriage. Although not perfect either, by the way. I have a lot of failings. But um you get better
00:51:46
>> as you get older. You do get better. I agree. These candidates fail and crisis
00:51:51
communications is so easy yet everyone gets it wrong. >> Own the issue. Acknowledge the problem.
00:51:56
>> Own but all they've done is they've kept it alive in the cycle by denying it and
00:52:02
attacking the media. They couldn't have in my opinion help themselves. >> Again, it's not about the scandal,
00:52:07
folks. It's how you handle it. That's it. Anyways, that's my deal. >> They're mad. They're mad. What do you
00:52:14
want? Anyway, uh that was a great one. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or
00:52:18
whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551
00:52:23
Pivot. And elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on with Caris Swisser, I talked to former NPR host
00:52:28
Audi Cornish and Ari Shapiro who have reunited for a new CNN cultural podcast called Engagement Party. Audi says the
00:52:35
goal is to help people get out of the cultural silos. Speaking of that, um that put social media puts us in. Let's
00:52:41
listen to a clip. I'm doing this kind of show to jailbreak the algorithm. I hate
00:52:46
the for you page. My kingdom for an actual search that works. I don't like the word feed. Like everything about the
00:52:53
way they have structured social media in the last 10 to 15 years bothers me deeply.
00:52:58
>> You know, the only word that they say user, that's the other industry that
00:53:02
uses the word user. >> Drugs. >> Exactly. Like all those I do the same
00:53:07
thing. I'm like, yeah. Feed user. like just everything about it, content, it's
00:53:13
just >> they hate us. >> It was really fun. It was actually a really fun interview with the two of
00:53:17
them. Uh they're really >> She's very talented. >> She is. And so is Ari. Ari is terrific,
00:53:21
too. Really interesting pairing. They're trying to do pivot, but less dick jokes,
00:53:25
I think. >> Um okay, that's >> Well, then [ __ ] them. >> [ __ ] them. [ __ ] them. They can't.
00:53:31
>> [ __ ] you, Ari. Good luck. Um okay, that's Everyone's trying to do pivot,
00:53:36
just so you know. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure
00:53:40
to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.