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This is going to be the moment when Sam Alman quite frankly [ __ ] the bed. >> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser >> and I'm Scott Galloway.
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>> To explain for listeners, Scott has a new background in his studio and guess
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what? I'm not in it. >> Oh, I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, this
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>> this >> the metaphor >> the metaphor the metaphor I would use is
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that you're my first wife and these are Bellar Russian hookers who I have >> I don't see any pivot there's no like me
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going like this what is happening >> uh do you want the honest truth or am I
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supposed to be snarky around this >> whatever either one it's probably a bad
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explanation >> uh no I'm very focused on enterprise value and um priv Vox owns a piece of Pivot.
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>> No, we do. But go ahead. Go ahead. >> Well, we we own it, but Vox everyone the
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thing I hate about the corporate structure and ownership of Pivot is that everyone has veto authority, but no one
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has control. I like having control. And as you know, about 5 years ago, I started launching my own pods.
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And quite frankly, it's your pivot has the biggest reach. >> Mhm. >> Um
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>> my pivot. Now it's my pivot. It's like our children, your children. Go ahead.
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>> But I'm very focused on um trying to create >> distinct enterprise value that I have
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control over. So pivot >> pivot is the biggest and the best and kind of your firstborn and I I love it
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and I'm fond of you. >> But in terms of trying to build enterprise value, I'm focused on the
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prof pods because I control it. And let me tell you, you're the same way. You
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have on with car. >> I just have on. That's all. But go ahead. >> Well, but control is an addictive
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substance. Yes. >> And I like making and quite frankly we get we make a lot of money from pivot
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but it's very difficult to figure out a path to enterprise value because Fox
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because Vox >> kind of controls or semicontrols the IP. So I'm just very honestly very focused
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on building enterprise value around the plethora of podcasts we are developing here.
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>> Let me make an argument. They don't actually control it. We can do whatever
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we mostly do whatever we want. You know that it's it's me. >> No. or it's going to be very difficult
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for us to sell pivot for a [ __ ] ton of money and that's the business that I'm
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in. >> Well, well, in a couple of years we can certainly correct. >> Yeah, I guess the terms of the agreement
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are the IP turns back. >> It's just me that's your problem. >> No, I don't I I like working with
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partners. I've always had partners in my business. I think that when I advise
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young entrepreneurs, I'm being serious. >> Who with a partner? Because the most
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rewarding thing in I think the most rewarding thing in life is to raise kids >> with a competent person that you love
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and and also to build economic security with someone you care about. It's just
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I think that is really rewarding. I also think it's much more rewarding to build
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businesses >> with someone else. I think one of the most rewarding things about Pivot is you
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and I have built it together and occasionally we get on the phone and we just bask in our success and it's really
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fun. Mhm. >> The way I describe it is inevitably when I travel because I I'm usually on a
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corporation's dime. I stay at these amazing places and inevitably if I'm
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when I'm alone, I get upgraded to literally the presidential suite at the George Sank in Paris.
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>> But if you're in it alone, >> it's like it didn't happen. It it just
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doesn't mean anything. So, >> I do think building businesses I've always had partners. My partner at Prop
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Media is Katherryn Dylan, who I've worked with for 15 years. My partner at Pivot is you and to a lesser extent Jim
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Bankoff. The But yeah, the most rewarding thing is building something with a partner. But with respect to the
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pictures behind me, >> I want to set PropG uh up in a corporate structure position such that I can sell
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it for a [ __ ] ton of money >> to an old media company that's panicking
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that they're not in the fastest growing out supported medium. >> Is that too much information? Oh, and
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then what are you going to do with your first marriage pivot that got you all that? That got you?
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>> I I'm still here. I'm here. >> What made you attractive to Russian
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[ __ ] What? What? >> I take you to the Olive Garden every Thursday night. When we get drunk at a
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convention, we might have some bad sex, >> right? >> But, you know, I'm still here. I'm still
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here. I'm hanging around until the kids go to college. >> Oh, man. >> Until Taylor and Zoe go off to college.
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>> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. You know, I I got to be honest, G, at this point in my life.
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>> Yeah. >> It's like this this uh resistance subscribe. A lot of people reached out
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to me and said, "Why didn't you organize with these people?" I'm like, "The idea
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>> I've heard that. I've gotten a lot of calls from people." >> The idea of getting a bunch of activists
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and liberal uh media figures on the phone and trying to get consensus sounds like my worst [ __ ] nightmare.
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>> Yeah, I got that from like a dozen people. Who Who was the last one? Katie
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Kirk. Katie Kirk. I >> Yeah, Katie reached out to me. And to be honest, >> they're right. But my view is
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>> I'm a ready fire in guy. I'm going to do what I can do. I've got a ton of
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momentum and then >> you do your thing and I'll support you. But the idea of getting on the phone
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with all of these people to decide whether Netflix should be on the list or not.
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>> That's just not my style. >> I know that. I know it. I Everyone was
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like, "Why do you do that?" I'm like, "Cuz he doesn't like you." Like I don't
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know. He just wants it. >> No, it's not that I don't like these people. It's like I would rather take a
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leadership. >> No business I've ever started made any sense. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> But my and not only that >> thing, this goes to a deeper spiritual
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thing. One of the things I don't like about getting older, >> I used to be more fearless when I was
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younger. I used to call people I wanted to meet and I used to approach people. I
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used to go to crash parties I wasn't invited to. And now I'm just sort of
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recently heckling from the cheap seats. I have very strong opinions about everything, but I'm doing less. And I
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want to move back to taking risks and actually doing [ __ ] and risking public failure because I think that has been
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other than being born a white heterosexual male in the 60s and the irrational passion for my well-being of
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my mother. The thing the reason I am somewhat successful is I've never been afraid of public failure. Yeah.
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>> And I've gotten more Speaking of which I've gotten more afraid as I've gotten
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older. I want to get more I want to get into the game. I want I want to get back
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on the You'll see what happens when you leave me. Anyway, I don't really care. I
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have other things I can do. Um, >> I'm leaving you. I still returned your
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angry text messages at 2 a.m. >> Guess who called me the other night? You, cuz. Cuz you wanted to chitty chat
00:06:28
with your favorite person on the planet. But let me inedible and I was bored. No
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one else would talk to me. I had to call someone in Eastern Standard Time because
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everyone else was asleep. >> So, no, but we've been sharing you've
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been sharing, speaking of looking ridiculous, what why why were you in a fur coat looking like a unsuccessful
00:06:45
pimp for your resistant unsubscribe? That made me laugh my ass off, I have to say, with a hat.
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>> Tell me where it's where are you right now. Give me a quick update and then
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we've got a lot to talk about today. >> So, I I like I think the truth has a
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nice ring to it. Out of the gates, it was bigger than I expected. I got to about 100,000 150,000 uniques a day. It
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has leveled off and it's not growing and I'm not hearing from as many CEOs. I've
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been doing some research >> around how do you sustain a movement like this and one of them was
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>> join with people. Go ahead. The hole is great on the sum of its parts. I will take over this as island
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on my own. I'm like one of those Japanese soldiers in the hills of the Philippines 20 years after the war has
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ended terrorizing everybody. >> Yeah. >> No, but this there was a study done out
00:07:30
of Kellogg and it found that it's actually not economic damage. It's public shaming visav the media. It's
00:07:36
media attention. And so I've been going on CNN once or twice a day. I was on MSN
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Now. I've been on NPR. I'm about to go on >> You need to go on Fox. Yeah, I'm
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probably going to go on Fox. I mean, I'm like you. This is going to sound arrogant, but it's true. I can get on
00:07:51
any network any day of the week. And >> I get it. >> And what's interesting, though, is when
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I do, and I'll come back to the when I do these crazy unchained, you know, weird, he's definitely not
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running for president now videos. >> Uh, they get about five or six hundred,000 to a million views. And when
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I go on CNN prime time, I get 3 to 400,000. So, the power of social is so powerful.
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And what I find about social is it's a chance to be your spirit animal. And people love that. People love I went up
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to >> I went up to, you know, my partner's closet. I grabbed a fur coat and a
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ridiculous hat because I was going to talk about land. >> Your hat. Stop pretending it's your hat.
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>> What's that? >> It's your hat and coat. But go ahead. Well, I like to spend $1,600 at Kimosabi
00:08:36
in Aspen for a hat that I look like Billy the Special Child, who's the latest the latest winner of the
00:08:42
Makea-Wish Foundation in El Paso, Texas. >> Oh, you look so ridiculous. >> I look totally [ __ ] ridiculous.
00:08:47
>> [ __ ] ridiculous. Anyway, where are we going? Very briefly, Resisted Unsubscribe. We have a lot to talk about
00:08:53
today. There's so much >> So, a lot of the organizations that do actually organize, Defiance and
00:08:59
Indivisible, um I'm coordinating with now. Uh, I'm trying to reignite the momentum and I'm
00:09:08
I'm going on a bunch of public media and I'm hearing it is in I mean granted I
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hear from people who are supportive, but I'm hearing from high school kids saying
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I'm trying to get my entire senior class to unsubscribe from Spotify. Will you do
00:09:22
a Zoom? So, I'm I'm trying to I hate to admit it, but I'm trying to The worst
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thing what's even worse than fighting with your allies is fighting without them. So, I'm trying to do a better job
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of >> Yeah. reaching out, which I hate. >> I know. But you're gonna have to,
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sweetie. You got it. Takes a village. >> It's It's kind of leveled out and I need
00:09:41
to reestablish. >> Yeah, it's a good idea. People got excited about your good idea, right? And
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we'll talk about the Washington Post later because I've gotten 900 calls
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about that. People are back to >> Well, you know, the Washington Post and and journalists are just so [ __ ]
00:09:54
precious. You guys should precious. Scott, I need you to stop. 300 people are fired yesterday.
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>> You you literally 300 people are fired. I'm going to slap you back to last
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Sunday. But first, let's first stop. We'll get to the Washington Post and you
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better collect yourself cuz I'll slap you. I will. I'll slap you back to last.
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>> What's the dynamic here? I say something stupid and then you say and then you
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come in with your warriors of wokeness and everyone's like, I love car. >> It's not warriors of wokeness. 300
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people lost their jobs. You can have a little empathy. >> 20,000 people lost their jobs at UPS.
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>> You know what the we owe the Washington debt of gratitude for the stuff they did
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for many, many years, you know. >> That's right. whose parents put them
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through Sarah Lawrence and they're more precious than everybody else. >> They're not more precious. It's still
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important. It doesn't matter. You don't have to stack rank people misery.
00:10:39
>> Come on. That that's not true. I'm not doing that. But we should talk about it
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because I do have some thoughts on it and I know you get to. But first, we're
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going to talk about anthropics. Something really kind of fun. Um it's taking aim at Open AI and chat GPD with
00:10:51
a series of Super Bowl ads poking fun. It it is the perfect satire at recent news that ads are coming to chat uh GPT.
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I want to play one of the anthropic ads. All of which, there's four of them, I
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think, that feature a young man visiting a therapist to talk about his mom. Let's
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watch. >> How do I communicate better with my mom? >> Great question. Improved communication
00:11:14
with your mom can bring you closer. Here are some techniques you can try. Start by listening. Really hear what she's
00:11:21
trying to say underneath her words. Build conversation from points of agreement. Find a connection through
00:11:28
shared activity, perhaps a nature walk. Or if the relationship can't be fixed,
00:11:35
find emotional connection with other older women on Golden Encounters, the mature dating site that connects
00:11:41
sensitive cubs with Roaring Cougars. >> What? >> The tagline appears on the screen at the
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end that says, "Adds are coming to AI, but not to Claude." Uh they've struck a
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nerve with Sam Alman, the CEO of uh OpenAI. Sam posted on X. The ads made him laugh and then went on to share a
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novalicized rant as Techrunch put it. He argued the campaign was dishonest and misrepresented how chat GBT would ever
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use ads. Oh my god, [ __ ] them if you can't take a joke. I think these ads are
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brilliant. They actually the way they depict um chat bots is perfect. That pause, the smile, the kind of
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you know lowest common denominator advice. But you these are great branding as you told me. So tell me as a Mr.
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Brands what do you think about these? >> Uh this is genius and this will be seen
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as the pivotal moment for when in 12 months anthropic is more valuable than open AI. This is a definition of
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intelligent branding. And one construct or vehicle for great branding is you ladder the competition.
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Well the way you ladder the competition to try and zero in on the soft tissues. You go we're this, they're this. And
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then you say okay is this point of differentiation uh truly different? Are we really
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different this way? Two, does anyone care? Is it relevant? And three, can we own it? Is it sustainable? So, in this
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instance, they said, "All right, uh, we're not going to have ads. Is that
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different?" Yes, chat GPT is having ads. That's truly differentiated. Is it
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relevant? Yeah, it is relevant because you're providing your most intimate information. There's a memory around AI
00:13:10
and the idea that it's not giving you the best answer, but an answer it can monetize is really uncomfortable for
00:13:16
people. And then, is it sustainable? mostly unless open AAI which is a nonzero chance they might backtrack on
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this but basically this is the perfect branding it's differentiated it's
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relevant to consumers and it's sustainable and the execution here is just gorgeous it's just beautiful this
00:13:35
occasionally like when Hyundai came out with their 7-year warranty ad that changed the complexion of Hyundai
00:13:41
occasionally there's an ad campaign that literally changes everything they're
00:13:45
fewer and fewer because people don't take advertising as seriously. They take
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real time innovation more seriously. This will be this already is the out of the Super Bowl. This is going to be the
00:13:56
moment when Sam Alman quite frankly [ __ ] the bed and Daario became the new face
00:14:02
of AI. Uh but I believe this will be the pivotal moment with also a focus on enterprise versus the consumer. They're
00:14:09
going Dell versus versus gateway going consumer or they're going enterprise versus
00:14:14
>> this is a consumer play because it's all about people asking advice from these
00:14:17
things. Let me tell you one of the things that really struck me and I don't know how you felt about it was the tone
00:14:22
of voice of these and the the one is better than that. I just saw another one and it was the execution is fantastic.
00:14:28
>> It was a woman talking to her business plan and was offering her whatever a
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like a like a like a web space kind of thing. Um, but the voices and the and the lack of emotion and the lack of
00:14:41
empathy in their voices and yet they're the robotic nature of people. This is
00:14:45
what sounds like to people. >> The shift in the tone. It goes from human to anodine.
00:14:50
>> Mhm. Genius actually. And the thing about >> and pauses the pause until they answer
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the cuz no one would do that, right? Everybody jumps all when they talk they have a normal interaction. But the pause
00:15:03
is what got me was perfect. Well, the Super Bowl is basically the ads aren't
00:15:08
worth it. Whatever they're charging 8 million for 30, it's not worth it. The
00:15:12
only way it's worth it and you know, you know, if the ad was worth it before the
00:15:16
ad ever airs and then it's how much play is it getting on YouTube and and already
00:15:20
Anthropic's ads are worth more than they're spending because everybody's
00:15:25
talking about its buzz. Ben Stiller's ad for Instacart is going to be the silver
00:15:30
medalist here. It's [ __ ] hilarious. >> It is. It's with um what's his name? Oh,
00:15:35
that guy. >> Yeah, he does flips and everything, but basically >> don't do the flip.
00:15:39
>> This has nothing to do with the ad on the Super Bowl. It's about your
00:15:42
permission to be evaluated and go viral because you're advertising at the Super
00:15:47
Bowl. >> Yeah. >> And already Anthropic has gotten a huge >> huge return. And also, if you'll notice,
00:15:54
>> Sam Alman is sounding very defensive. >> He Oh my god, I laughed. But like, you
00:15:59
know that he should have said nothing or said that was funny. Those are the only
00:16:04
two answers, right? That was Benson Boon in the in the Benson. >> But this was this was a pivotal turning
00:16:08
moment. What do you think? >> I thought I just loved it. I thought it was perfect. It also was, you know, it
00:16:14
really put a finger on what people don't like about AI, right? It really did.
00:16:19
Yeah. They're such like ew. Like, oh, like it's not a person. And it it was it
00:16:24
was actually kind of in their brand of we're not those guys, right? Like it also it didn't say what they were, but
00:16:32
it said what they weren't. And I think that and what they aren't is something
00:16:36
that's very unattractive to people, right? What what they are is attractive.
00:16:41
It's like I want to I want to use this AI, but I don't want that. Like that's
00:16:46
what I thought was effective there. And it it it for the the the actors who are doing the chat bots are the workout one
00:16:55
with the guy working out was >> I thought of the old Spice commercials. I'm here on a horse. I have diamonds in
00:17:00
my hand. >> Yes, I know. It was perfect. But it was anyway good job uh Claude and and
00:17:05
Anthropic. It really is. And and Sam really should have just said that was really funny. Loved it.
00:17:10
>> But kind of what's more uncomfortable about this is the following. >> The number one use case of AI. You know
00:17:17
what it is? >> Therapy. >> So imagine you're giving someone the most intimate details about your life.
00:17:25
>> Mhm. >> And then the AI decides where to insert an ad. It's imagine I've I've been I'm
00:17:31
getting served all of these ring light therapists that are quote mental health professionals telling everyone you don't
00:17:35
need a job, you don't need a relationship, you need to work on yourself first. Yeah, that that's
00:17:39
helpful. >> Mhm. >> Anyways, I heard one of these ring light therapists recommending a dating site
00:17:45
>> and I thought, is this person being compensated by this dating site? Imagine
00:17:49
sitting down and talking to a therapist and giving them your most intimate details and they say, "Oh, you should
00:17:54
absolutely go on Lexapro. And by the way, I'm sponsored by Eli Liy or whatever.
00:17:59
>> Doctors are, aren't they? They I mean, that's that's a tale as old as time.
00:18:03
Anyway, >> but people are using AI as a more trusted doctor than their doctor. People
00:18:08
are going to AI. >> I mean, doctors get all those gimmies from pharmacy people. You know that like
00:18:14
there's a whole >> And by the way, that's been seriously pulled back and regulated as it should.
00:18:18
I used to get invited to these dinners to to speak about >> back when I was running a brand strategy
00:18:24
firm. invited to these dinners with with neurosurgeons sponsored by Sandos or whatever
00:18:30
>> and they've pulled back on that a lot because they realized but if you're
00:18:33
giving AI the most intimate if you're saying to AI okay I have panc I have prostate cancer
00:18:41
my gleon scores are this and I don't know whether I should have my prostate removed or if I should just continue
00:18:47
therapy low-fat diet the idea that the AI might be trying to figure out what ad to insert at that moment Yeah. Yeah. It
00:18:55
has a very Facebooky feel to it, I'll tell you. >> With Google, you expect it. With
00:18:59
Facebook, you expect it. But right now, everyone's under the impression that the
00:19:02
AI is their friend trying to help them. >> Absolutely. All right. Moving from that,
00:19:08
let's run through a rapid fire update of all the Epstein news that's happened
00:19:11
since we talked. I mean, seriously, this is just First, let's listen to what
00:19:14
President Trump had to say to CNN's Caitlyn Collins when asked about Epstein's victims. This was something
00:19:19
else. And then JD Vance followed up with a really even worse version of it. But let's listen.
00:19:24
>> Yeah. What What did you say? Go ahead. CNN, >> what would you say to the survivors who
00:19:28
got >> You are the worst reporter. No wonder CNN has no ratings because of people
00:19:32
like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile.
00:19:36
I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your
00:19:40
face. >> Survivor. You know why you're not smiling? Cuz you know you're not telling
00:19:44
the truth. >> Uh that was something, Nick. Uh that was something. Uh, let me say I think the
00:19:50
reason she got under her skin is cuz what she was talking about was the survivors of Donald Trump, you know.
00:19:56
>> Well, you mean that he's mentioned 5,700 times. >> Yes, exactly. I think he knows deep in
00:20:01
his in his incredibly narcissistic denial personality. He knows, right? And so he knows what happened. These people
00:20:09
know what happened. And so, you know, it's typical old man says, "I never seen
00:20:13
you smile." I've had that. Women have that happen to them all the time.
00:20:15
>> Smile, sweetheart. Yeah, you should smile more. You should put Cara Swisser
00:20:19
on the back of your thing and say thank you. But um but uh it's really it was
00:20:24
really something. That was really something. And and then what was incredible is that JD has followed it in
00:20:29
a really ridiculous interview with Megan Kelly in which he said, "Well, he just
00:20:33
wants her to have fun, you know? Oh my god, he's he's a the cringiest cringe of
00:20:38
he just takes something that's bad and makes it worse, which is really hard to
00:20:41
do in this situation." >> I thought I see it's funny. I had a different reaction there. I kind of
00:20:46
expected it from J. What I thought was especially heinous was Megan Kelly defending. Yeah.
00:20:50
>> The president referenced her menstrual cycle. There's a there's got to be a
00:20:54
line where as someone has a certain level and I go back, you know, not just not just everyone should have a code in
00:21:02
lines. You don't the key isn't to be likable. You everyone deserves boundaries in a relationship and
00:21:07
boundaries around the behavior they will accept and not accept. When the president insulted the looks of Senator
00:21:13
Cruz's wife, that should have been a red line and it should be like, "I'm never
00:21:16
supporting you ever again." And when the president referenced Megan Kelly's
00:21:20
menstrual cycle, that should have been a line where she would, I would think, for
00:21:23
the rest of her career go, "This guy has a problem when it comes to women." And I
00:21:27
was >> I was uh texting this morning with uh Molly John Fast. And the the thing I've
00:21:34
been trying to wrap my hands around I want to get your viewpoint here around the Epstein files. And the problem is or
00:21:40
I see the biggest problem is that what we need is a a thick layer of an institution that we trust. And that used
00:21:46
to be the Department of Justice to go through in the FBI these these 3 million pages and say, "Okay, our job is to use
00:21:54
discretion and the rule of law to parse what is illegal criminal behavior that deserves public attention and what does
00:22:01
not deserve public attention like being on an invite list to a party in St. arts
00:22:06
that Jeffrey Epste was going because right now we're overpunishing [ __ ] that
00:22:10
is trivial and superolous and we're underpunishing child rape. >> Yep.
00:22:17
>> Everything has been mushed together and because we don't trust an institution
00:22:22
>> to go through this and say this is criminal activity and warrants public
00:22:26
scrutiny and legal scrutiny. And quite frankly folks, we're not even going to
00:22:29
release this [ __ ] because all it does is impug people for no reason. Mhm. >> But the problem is there's no arbiter.
00:22:36
There's no institution that traditionally we've had trust in that we're comfortable with doing it. So
00:22:42
everyone's like release the files. They release all 3 million. I don't even know
00:22:45
if this is helping right now. >> They released half. They've released half. They're not What are your
00:22:50
thoughts? I >> I just He's a pig. I'm sorry. He's just an old man pig and JD Vance made it
00:22:55
worse. And Megan Kelly, forget it. She's a bluffer to all of them and she's going
00:22:58
to put this on her show. So hey Megan, good to give you content. You'll attack
00:23:02
me and not Scott who's appropriately critical of you. But that's fine. Whatever you want, girl. Um, next up,
00:23:07
Bill. >> I've been on Megan's show. Have you been on her show? >> No, of course not. Why would I Why would
00:23:11
I get it, though? I think she's very talented. >> She has turned into something else.
00:23:16
Scott, you're not paying attention. >> No, no, no. >> Don't interrupt my sentence to score
00:23:20
points with your woke warriors. >> What I was going to say with you with the woke warrior.
00:23:24
>> What I was going to say, well, let let me finish. is that I register that she
00:23:28
like Candace Owens >> has literally gone off the [ __ ] deep end. >> Yeah.
00:23:32
>> And I can't figure out if it's because the rage algorithms love rage bait so
00:23:37
they get more money every time they say something incendiary or they have literally gone insane. Like they haven't
00:23:42
taken a red pill. They've swallowed like you know a red cyanide pill. But I would
00:23:48
argue over the last few years, Megan has gone very very >> conspiracy theory and has decided the
00:23:55
more insane incendiary [ __ ] I say >> Mhm. >> Uh is it that she's making money or is
00:24:00
she has she seriously lost her [ __ ] >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't honestly is
00:24:05
she's I don't care. She's just one of those people I've decided to like put in
00:24:10
the trash bin of my whatever. She can she can say whatever she wants about me if I provide good content to her. Knock
00:24:16
yourself out, girl. Anyway, Bill and Hillary Clinton have agreed to be deposed on camera at public hearings in
00:24:21
the Epstein investigation. That should be something. Obviously, when I interviewed Ro Connie, he said they
00:24:26
absolutely should. I agree. So should President Trump. They should also bring him in. They should bring all these
00:24:30
people in. Um but they're having them and Hillary did this morning was like,
00:24:35
"Bring it on." Like I'm a little scared for the Republicans, honestly. And she
00:24:38
wants cameras there. She's like, so obviously she's got something up her
00:24:41
sleeve, and I wouldn't I don't I think this woman has run out of [ __ ] after
00:24:45
being like whacked, right? I mean, some of it is her fault, but boy, have they just she's she's loaded for bear, I
00:24:54
would say, is my feeling. And um they could throw them they could she's going
00:24:58
to talk about Trump the whole time. That's what she's going to do. the it's
00:25:02
in my going back to my brand strategy course. I do people as brands and I look at them as brands and break down their
00:25:07
core attributes >> and I did the Clintons and I did Bill and Hillary and they both especially
00:25:13
Bill but they're brand attributes that are so powerful. First off, Bill has Opraike empathy. I generally get the
00:25:20
sense when I met Bill Clinton I thought this guy cares about me. I'm going to
00:25:24
support him the rest of my life. I got you get the sense he genuinely like >> he's very
00:25:28
>> cares >> and it's so it comes across as so genuine it's hard to believe it's not
00:25:32
genuine. Anyways, >> the second thing is you would never want the Clintons on the other side of
00:25:38
anything you're doing. >> These people are ruthless and smart. >> I don't care if you're I don't care if
00:25:44
you're picking players for a softball team. If these people had no athletic ability, I would still want them on my
00:25:49
team cuz they would figure out a way to kneecap the second baseman. throw a I think she's good at I think she's
00:25:54
>> if I I can't wait for this and if I were if I were the Trump administration the
00:25:59
last [ __ ] thing I would want >> is cameras on a very wellprepared 155 [ __ ] IQ is Secretary Clinton because
00:26:09
>> well did you see did you see Trump said I like Bill Clinton like he was
00:26:13
>> all of a sudden he's trying to be like they're pretty good people going
00:26:15
>> and they shouldn't have to undergo this >> you I'm sorry Bill Clinton and Hillary
00:26:21
Clinton are testifying. Could these could the Trump administration be more stupid? And
00:26:28
you're going to have a bunch of trust me there's going to be three or four
00:26:31
moments >> where some idiot staffer has given a bigger idiot Republican a stupid
00:26:37
question >> and you are going to see one of the Clintons slap them back so silly. I
00:26:45
can't I literally can't I'm not going to watch this. This is my Super Bowl. I
00:26:50
can't wait for this. >> Yeah. Anyway, let's get through the last two. Melinda French Gates, another smart
00:26:56
cookie, said references to her ex-husband and filled her with unbelievable sadness that he along with
00:27:00
others needed to answer the question that remained. Gates himself apologized yet again. But I thought Melinda Gates
00:27:05
handled herself with so much class given she keeps getting asked about her the behavior of her ex-husband. Um, I would
00:27:12
hate I would hate that. I would hate that. I thought she handled well. And and let me add into that, you can pick
00:27:17
either one. CBS is pulling a 60-minute segment with longevity guru Peter Aya, but the network's news editor and chief
00:27:24
Barry Weiss is reportedly refusing to fire him a contributor. Um, I'll on the
00:27:27
way weigh in very quickly here. I've heard from a lot of people they really want him gone and they should because
00:27:33
you can easily replace him with someone like Scott Galloway, for example, who knows all about the he's, you know,
00:27:39
Scott. >> You're the longevity person now. >> Yeah, I'm the longevity person. I'm
00:27:42
using it for marketing. I'm like, great, keep this like keep this uh Epstein
00:27:47
soiled um person who already a lot of people think is a bit of a grifter on there. And plus, she's added uh um
00:27:54
Andrew Huberman, I know you like him, but and and Markman, who is really I'm
00:27:58
sorry, it's just codswall up a lot of the stuff he he blabbls about. Um anyway, either one, Melinda or
00:28:05
>> Yeah, but okay. So I I think I think Melinda French Gates joins a crew of women and this is sexist who
00:28:14
seem to have a different approach to how they acquit themselves when they become
00:28:17
billionaires. And that is they're more focused on philanthropy. They demonstrate grace. They demonstrate
00:28:23
empathy, focused on their kids. And they have just I mean I've told you this kind
00:28:30
of one of my personal heroes is Mackenzie Scott. the approach she takes to her life and giving versus the other
00:28:36
half of the marriage. It's just there's something about the female brain and
00:28:42
this is sexist because I'm distinguishing between the >> sexes. It's actually
00:28:45
>> and by the way, let me be clear. Let me let me piss off women. I think men often
00:28:49
times the male brain brain because of testosterone and more risk aggressiveness sometimes more than often
00:28:54
make outstanding entrepreneurs and I think that male aggression has put us on the moon and discovered vaccines. So,
00:28:59
let me give some credit that it's also disparaging or people are going to take
00:29:02
it as a hate crime against women. When they become billionaires, it appears that the female brain is much more about
00:29:10
how do I help others versus how can I have the most [ __ ] fabulous life with with, you know, in Aspen. There does
00:29:19
seem to be a real distinct difference between these divorces and how the female side of the equation acquits
00:29:26
themselves versus the male equation. I would say Sergey Brand and an Wajiski is another example of that.
00:29:31
>> They're everywhere. Look at these examples everywhere. >> Island by him too.
00:29:35
>> Look at all these examples everywhere. And then also though, and I think we're
00:29:38
going to agree on this or disagree on this, but I want I think Dr. Peter Aia is a [ __ ] distraction here. Let his
00:29:45
colleagues, let his podcast listeners, let his podcast network, as far as I can tell, he did not commit a crime. He just
00:29:51
comes across as a creep. Hold on. >> Think that. >> Hold on. But but there is credible
00:29:56
evidence that the president of the United States, who has been mentioned 5,700 times, may have engaged in child
00:30:02
rape. So I could give a flying [ __ ] about a longevity doctor and the creepy emails he sends. This is about criminal
00:30:11
activity amongst our our cabinet and our our president and not creepy emails from
00:30:19
a wellness doctor. I get your point and I I'm going to say yes, but do we have
00:30:24
again as I said before, do we have to stack rank these things? I mean, you can say and I agree with you. I repeat,
00:30:29
>> one's about indictments. The other is about who cares. >> They should be we should be focused on
00:30:33
criminally indicting the people who have who have abused young women or young women, not women, young girls. Children,
00:30:40
let's just go right to children. I'm not speaking of Megan Kelly trying to figure
00:30:44
out which age is okay. None of them. >> The the 15year-old, they're 15. They
00:30:50
look like they're 18, so it's okay. >> They're wearing, you know, extensions,
00:30:54
you know, like, oh my god. Like, so I agree with you on that. That said, it's okay to say, "Ew," to like Howard
00:31:04
Lutnik, yuck, what a liar about his his affiliations with thing. It's okay to
00:31:09
say, "Wow, Peter Adio, what a creepy dude." It's okay to do that. Also,
00:31:14
that's all I I just don't think you have to like >> there should be a DOJ releasing to the
00:31:18
public information and to grand juries again on diamonds on criminal behavior. >> Agreed.
00:31:23
>> And quite frankly, they should not be releasing >> Kevin Marsh or whatever his name is, it
00:31:28
comes up. He's in the Epstein files because he was on an invite list. >> I I Yes. If we had institutions we could
00:31:33
still trust that aren't perverted by the president's total overrun of a co-equal
00:31:37
branch of government, you could have an FBI and a DOJ that would say, "Here's
00:31:41
the information we're releasing cuz it's pertinent and here's the information
00:31:45
we're not releasing cuz all it does is create distraction and delution of the
00:31:50
real criminals here." >> But the guy who was head of Paul Weiss who acquiesed very early to the Trumps,
00:31:54
he had to step down because of his I mean I'm just saying there is devils. I
00:31:57
agree with you. I think we are actually agreed on this. Um, but I just would note that Peter Aier wrote, "The worst
00:32:02
thing about being friends with Epstein was that he couldn't tell a soul about
00:32:05
the financier's outrageous life. I wouldn't want to work with this fucker."
00:32:09
So anyway, um, let's go on a quick break. >> If if AI went through every email you
00:32:14
sent, could they find [ __ ] that makes you look really bad? >> Not like this. No, not even close. No.
00:32:20
No. >> Yeah, it's probably >> No. And not you either, by the way, FYI.
00:32:23
I don't think so either. >> Come on. Like it's mostly you like yelling at me. Really? That's what
00:32:28
really happens, people. Oh yeah. Me yelling at you. I think you got the I think you got your pronouns off there or
00:32:35
whatever we're calling me yelling at you at 2 a.m. You need to apologize to so
00:32:42
and so and Cheryl You're being unfair to Cheryl Samber. >> You know what? We had a lovely chat last
00:32:49
night. Scott and I did. Just so you know. We did. >> We tal we spoke last night.
00:32:52
>> We two two nights ago. Last night. Two nights. Anyway, we had a lovely time. I
00:32:56
went out last night with my lovely wife. Let's go on a quick break. We come back.
00:33:00
Alphabet earnings. Really interesting. >> Support for the show comes from Vanta.
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for growth. You can get started at vanta.com/pivot. That's van na.com/pivot.
00:34:06
vanta.com/pivot. Scott, we're back onto some earnings. Alphabet beat earnings and revenue
00:34:15
expectations with a net income up almost 30% from the year prior. Well done, Sundar Kachai. Uh the company expects
00:34:22
2026 capex spend to be this is incredible 175 and uh 165 and 175 billion which could be more than double
00:34:30
2025 spending and obviously all on AI shares are down 5% in the last uh couple days because at the time of the taping
00:34:38
very briefly what do you think of these alpha earnings because you've been focused on on the Google the owner of
00:34:43
Google >> uh Alphabet was my stock pick for 2025 that this is nothing short of staggering
00:34:49
um annual revenues uh at 400 billion right now. YouTube revenue up 9%, Google Cloud up 48%.
00:34:58
Cara, oh, and by the way, Open AI was supposedly going to kill Google search. Search is up 17%. Google services
00:35:05
revenue up >> 14%. >> They finally move fast. >> The market was a little spooked by their
00:35:09
capex expenditure. In this case, it's a feature, not a bug, cuz they have the
00:35:12
money to do it. >> And you want to talk about a comeback story for the ages? Back in 2022, the
00:35:17
market decided that search had an existential threat with chat GPT and the stock was off 40%. And guess where?
00:35:24
Guess where the stock is now since it hit that low? It's up fourfold. And since the quarter that chat GBPT was
00:35:32
released, Google search revenues are up 48%. They get about 90 to 95 times the number
00:35:38
of queries as Chat GBT. And the thing I took away from this these earnings were two things. One, staggering. And two, I
00:35:46
think Open AI is [ __ ] They're getting attacked from the side by anthropic with
00:35:51
incredible positioning highlighting their their soft tissue around advertising. They're getting attacked
00:35:56
from above by Alphabet, which has more probably IP and a fire hose of two billion people a day to point at their
00:36:04
own AI platforms. And they're getting attacked from below by these openweight
00:36:08
LLMs out of China. I I saw this and I'm like Jesus Christ this company is on
00:36:14
fire and well managed and then I thought there is no you I think we have seen the
00:36:19
peak of open AI's valuation. They're supposedly raising money at 850. I think
00:36:24
that'll be the high water mark. >> All right. Hope well interesting. All
00:36:26
right. Now on to Disney. The company topped earnings and revenue expectations with experience department reporting
00:36:31
over $10 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time. That's the with parks. Overall revenue for the
00:36:36
entertainment segment of the company was up 7% year-over-year. Not bad. He made another big announcement. The CEO Bob
00:36:42
Iger, Josh Demorro, will replace him. He has been at Disney for 28 years and most
00:36:46
recently served as chairman of Disney Experiences, which makes up roughly 60% of the profit last year. The company
00:36:52
also promoted top television executive Dana Walden to president and chief creative officer. The I mean she gets
00:36:59
the um consolation prize, I guess. Once again, Scott Cara was right. Let's listen to who I predicted Disney would
00:37:05
choose in the October of 2024. Um, any idea who is who is going to be the next uh Bob Iger? Probably be
00:37:13
someone internally pro. I'm guessing either Josh or or Dana Walden. One of those two. It just seemed like it's hard
00:37:21
to run a company like Disney if you haven't been there 103 years. Um, so uh we asked our friend and founding partner
00:37:27
of Puck, Bill Cohen, for his thoughts on the transition. Let's just quickly listen to him what he had to say.
00:37:32
>> In many ways it was the inevitable choice. Uh, in some ways it was the most
00:37:37
ironic choice. Uh, I say the ironic choice because of course uh Bob Chapek uh ran the parks and events uh division
00:37:48
of Disney when Bob Iger selected him to be his first successor. And we all know that that did not work out uh at all.
00:37:59
And now he's got uh Dearo as his uh successor, also from the parks division.
00:38:06
And I say the inevitable choice because look, let's face it, that's the division
00:38:11
that's been hitting it uh out of the ballpark uh for the last few years. He's
00:38:16
been monetizing uh the Disney IP uh beautifully. They were also very smart in keeping uh the people around uh at uh
00:38:26
Disney uh who uh have the skills that he doesn't have uh including Dana Walden
00:38:32
promoting her, Alan Bergman, Jimmy Petaro uh running ESPN. So, he's got a good cast around him. If tomorrow can
00:38:39
keep up uh what he's done at uh in the parks department and uh increase the Disney stock price, which of course is
00:38:48
what everybody wants him to do because it's floundered for the last couple of
00:38:52
years, uh he'll be a success. If if uh he can't do those things, and it's a big
00:38:57
question mark still, uh he may go the way of Bob Chapek. >> Uh it's too big, actually. But uh what
00:39:03
this really interesting, I thought that was really smart. I mean, It's still you Scott and I both think
00:39:08
this companyy's going to get bought for some reason. I just Right. Correct. Are
00:39:12
we still on that? >> If it if it doesn't get if it doesn't get bought that's inviting an activist.
00:39:17
They'll give the new CEO a 24-month honeymoon period. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone is aggregating
00:39:23
stock right now because if you look at the 10-year returns of the S&P, it's
00:39:27
almost quadrupled. Disney is flat. And Bob Iger is the guy who decided after a successful tour of Vietnam to go back
00:39:36
and basically has had his legs blown off. I mean the the one of the worst decisions in history in corporate
00:39:41
history personally was for Bob Iger to decide to shoot his successor and come back in like he was MacArthur. He
00:39:48
wasn't. He anyways um this company will have an overhang on it until they do the
00:39:54
following. This should be good bank. It should be, if you will, it should be um the
00:40:00
streaming service, the studio, and the parks. They feed each other IP, there's
00:40:06
Synergy, and there's flywheels. And then they've got to get rid of um ESPN, ABC,
00:40:12
cable networks, FX, Free Form, Disney Channel, Nat Gio, cuz these things are just an anchor. and the linear
00:40:19
businesses and the linear businesses are just awful. But the experiences, the parks
00:40:24
and cruises and streaming are growing and getting profitable. And when you have a conglomerate like this, what the
00:40:31
market does is they find the shittiest business which is the linear business and they assign that multiple to the
00:40:36
entire company. So Disney is probably in my view is one of the few values or good
00:40:42
buys out there right now because it has unmatched IP. the parks business, assuming that the tariffs are reversed
00:40:48
and people start coming back to the US at some point, is is singular. I don't
00:40:53
care what anyone think. If you don't take your kids and spend $1,400 a night
00:40:57
in a shitty hotel three or four times before the age of 10, they call child services on you. They have a monopoly on
00:41:04
>> not just that. Not just that, it's toys. >> Frozen. You have to have Disney Plus.
00:41:08
>> They still haven't been like, you know, like I don't think they they don't have
00:41:11
Coco Melon. I think that's over at Netflix. They they still haven't caught
00:41:14
on to some trends. That's my worry for them is they've got a lot of old trends,
00:41:18
right? A lot of old stuff like uh K-pop Demon Hunters, for example. That was Netflix again. Like, and some of the
00:41:25
other ones that are very popular with kids, the more cutting edge ones, they don't seem to be on top of them. So, I
00:41:30
would imagine that uh Dana and there has to really focus on that. Like what is hot? like they they they have the
00:41:38
traditionals and Frozen two and I mean three and four are coming out which of course we have to see and then we'll
00:41:45
have all the things um but you know they've missed a lot of turns on the newest kind of viral phenomenas that are
00:41:52
very lasting too right and so that would be my thing and but content isn't the
00:41:57
point it's the parks it's the streaming it's the IP and what do you do with that
00:42:01
and so to me they have to really um understand maybe have a little more of a range change an IP or something like
00:42:08
that as as they're doing over at Netflix and other places. Just they could be a
00:42:12
little more innovative. But you're right, it has to be spun off. Let Jimmy Baro run all of those. I've known him
00:42:17
for a long time from Yahoo and very smart executive. >> Their their experiences division in Q1
00:42:22
reported three times the operating income as the entertainment division. The entertainment division,
00:42:27
>> the crown jewel there, the streaming services are actually getting some
00:42:30
leverage. Their operating income was up 72%. So if you have this unbelievable singular business with enormous modes
00:42:35
called the experiences division and you have the studios which create IP for your streaming services which is getting
00:42:41
momentum and right now you know Netflix is Walmart and Disney is LVMH in the sense that Disney has a singular
00:42:48
positioning around family that will be very strong for a long time and command margin. those two growth companies
00:42:54
together and then you shed the problem child the linear networks this company immediately they could I I said this
00:43:02
last year I think they could sell and they won't do this ESPN ABC Entertainment Global Networks FX all
00:43:08
that [ __ ] NetGo I think they could sell it for a dollar and the company would be
00:43:12
worth more in six months >> because it's an enormous overhang on them >> makes a lot of profit
00:43:19
>> every analyst every analyst report says the following good good, great, good,
00:43:24
but there's always a butt and that is these huge cable companies. And by the
00:43:30
way, that company just done it before he leaves, you know, done. >> I think he wanted a bigger number. He
00:43:36
put a for sale sign on these things 24 months ago. >> He did. Yeah. >> But private equity and there's a and now
00:43:41
it's like whatever the one is from con Comcast. Someone is going to consolidate
00:43:45
these things. And by the way, that'll probably be a good stock cuz someone will come in and start cutting costs
00:43:50
faster than revenue declines. And people usually overestimate the speed of revenue declines. That'll be a good
00:43:57
business. It'll be a totally different business. >> There's going to be a lot of activity
00:44:00
because look, if Paramount doesn't get uh doesn't get Warner, that's going to
00:44:05
be someone on the lookout. You've got Comcast sort of waiting in the wings. I
00:44:09
went to an Olympic party last night. Boy, they have a great month coming up. They've got the Super Bowl, they've got
00:44:13
the Olympics, and they've got the NBA something or other. They're calling it
00:44:17
Legendary February. Um, uh, you know, they've got to do something. So, there's
00:44:21
going to be a lot of activity here. And you're right, the spin-off of ABC provides an opportunity for any of these
00:44:26
players, uh, going forward. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, uh, we're going to talk about the
00:44:32
Washington Post layoffs, and I'm going to get some advice from Scott Galloway.
00:44:35
Scott, we're back with more news. The Washington Post has laid off about 30%
00:44:38
of its employees. The cuts impact both business and newsroom roles including over 300 there roughly 800 journalists.
00:44:44
Interestingly, I looked at old memos. Uh Bezos had added up to a thousand. He really grew it and now he's on growing
00:44:51
it. Um in all sections of company have been impacted with a focus on sports, local news, and international covers.
00:44:57
Executive editor Matt Murray told the staff the company had lost too much money for too long. It will now be
00:45:01
focused on national news and politics, business, and health. Uh maybe they can hire Peter or Tia. Um, I want you not to
00:45:08
say people are precious right now. I want to talk about this because I've gotten dozens of, you know, I had been
00:45:13
interested in looking at figuring out a way to buy it. Um, I've gotten lots of
00:45:17
calls this week from both employees, very wealthy people, people who are civically minded here in Washington,
00:45:23
rich people. Um, what do you think's going to happen here? I mean, let me just very briefly, since I worked there,
00:45:29
again, I started in the mail room. The way they did this, Bezos hasn't said a
00:45:33
word. The CEO didn't talk to any employees. Hasn't been seen since they did this. They they handed the bag to
00:45:39
Matt Murray to deal with it. Um, which to me was just cowardly. Um, you know, I put on threads. Bezos has twice the
00:45:48
muscle and he's half the man from when I met him. Um, but and that was a personal
00:45:53
insult. I meant it in a really very significant way. Um, what do you do with this? What do you do? And what do I when
00:46:01
I get all these calls like I'm doing great with the podcast although apparently you're leaving me. Um and I'm
00:46:07
just banging bouch. >> Okay, it's fine. I don't care. >> Consensuality.
00:46:13
Who would have thought Hunter Biden would come across as so wholesome? All these prostitutes are on TikTok saying
00:46:18
he was respectful. He likes they're all like they're all like he likes crack and
00:46:23
having sex with grown women and he looks wholesome right now. He's not in the
00:46:28
Epstein pile. surprised. He's nowhere in the Epstein box. >> I have to say, yeah, I agree.
00:46:31
>> He looks like Richard Thomas from the Waltons right now. >> Who else? Maybe Gavin Newsome. I'm like,
00:46:36
how did you not get in the Anyway, um tell tell me what to do here. Tell me what you think. Obviously, let me just
00:46:44
tell you. Thanks, Jeff. Really, the economics have changed. Everybody knows this. Stop lecturing us on things they
00:46:51
know. They definitely had to cut cost. If I took it over, I I'd cut cause. not
00:46:55
in this nasty prickish way while I'm appearing with Pete Hegsth. Uh looking like I've had way too much Botox, but
00:47:02
and I would say something to them if I was doing this given how rich I am and I certainly could afford it. I don't mean
00:47:08
to say he has to lose money, but boy, the look is so bad. It's such a bad look. Him swaning around Paris while
00:47:14
he's done this and then not even speaking to them. The whole thing just stinks the way he handled this of really
00:47:19
good people who will find who will find jobs at some point and but it's a lot of
00:47:24
people in the market all at once. So what to do here without insulting this? Go ahead.
00:47:31
>> Okay. So this is Cara Swisser calling me at 11 p.m. or midnight asking my advice
00:47:36
from the Washington Post and if and how you should get involved. Is that accurate?
00:47:39
>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. First thing I say is hold on a second. I got to take my dogs out to pee
00:47:44
because I just took edibles and I'll forget. And if they pee on the stone, I'm I'm going to be in a bowl of hurt.
00:47:49
That's the first thing I say. >> All right. So now you >> I take the dogs on a walk and I think
00:47:52
about it. This is what I would say to you. Don't touch this thing with a [ __ ] 10-ft pole. Cuz here's the
00:47:56
bottom line. >> First off, Jeff Bezos has made a terrible personal brand error by not
00:48:02
doing the following. He should have said, "I have incredible reverence for uh journalism, for free speech. I bought
00:48:09
this because I think it plays an important role in our society. it has come to my attention or I have decided
00:48:14
I'm just not the right owner and he should have sold it to Bloomberg or some
00:48:19
other billionaire two years ago and they would had a going away party forum and he should have wrapped himself in
00:48:27
the importance of great journalism and there are what's so sad right now about
00:48:31
the Washington Post is from I would call it kind of 2018 to 2023 they were on an upslope I started
00:48:40
reading the Washington Post I subscribed to for its business news. I thought they
00:48:43
did a really good job of business coverage. >> Talented journalist, an important
00:48:48
>> good stories. >> Yeah. An important >> American asset and he should have gone
00:48:53
out. Instead, he looks like someone who is purposefully trying to disassemble it
00:48:58
limb by limb. Now, the reason you should not get near this, Cara, is because if you were worth 10 billion and willing to
00:49:06
allocate two or three billion over the next 20 or 20 years, I'd say >> for the good. Yeah,
00:49:12
>> have at it. It's philanthropy. Because here's the bottom line. In an era of
00:49:15
social media where two-thirds of news is now garnered off of social media where they don't have to pay for content, long
00:49:21
for thoughtful fact check investigative journalism is a shitty business. And also, let me be clear, the few newsrooms
00:49:30
I have been in, and I've been in some important ones, there's a general expectance and entitlement that, oh,
00:49:38
you're some rich person and you're funding my very important civic duty,
00:49:43
and I find there's a lack of recognition of the fact this is a private company
00:49:48
that needs to figure out a way to make money. >> I think that's been starched out of
00:49:51
them. But go ahead. I agree with you. I I still think they find themselves especially precious and that
00:49:56
billionaires owe them a living. >> Well, >> and there may be they may be there may
00:50:01
be billionaires who see an opportunity here >> to if you could find a billionaire
00:50:07
backer who said this is so important and there are amazing journalists. It's an
00:50:12
important asset. We have fewer and fewer of these assets that actually do the work and people trust. This plays an
00:50:19
important role in society. I'm hoping that someone pops up and says, "I'm
00:50:23
putting together a an advisory board of 12 amazing journalists, business people that will be the oversight board other
00:50:31
than writing a check for $200 million to subsidize this thing every year, I'm not
00:50:35
going to be involved because I see the importance." It's the same way someone
00:50:39
writes a one or $200 million check to their favorite, you know, to Peeta or to or to uh, you know, Planned Parenthood
00:50:47
or to whatever it might be, PB, what whatever their philanthropy. And I say that in the best of terms, and
00:50:56
that is it has a social good, but as a capitalist endeavor, this [ __ ] just doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately,
00:51:03
if you got involved without without having billions of dollars to throw at the problem, you would just get you
00:51:11
would get all of the frustration with none of the credit or the appreciation regardless of your skills in journalism.
00:51:16
So, unless you're willing to partner, unless you can find a billionaire who says, "Okay, I'm going to take your
00:51:21
guidance around an advisory board. We're going to run this thoughtfully. We are
00:51:25
going to impose some discipline on it, but we're willing to lose a 100red to 2
00:51:29
million million a year. It's just going to be good money after bad and more frustration.
00:51:35
>> Could there's no restructuring of this from your perspective? I mean, it
00:51:38
doesn't have to be what it is, right? You and I have both started businesses
00:51:41
and quite successful ones >> unless you're going to milk it. There's
00:51:44
no business here. There's no c there's no for-profit business here, >> right? That's what I'm saying. What else
00:51:49
could you imagine it being? >> I think the What's the one in the London
00:51:54
that you where you live? The Guardian, right? Don't >> I think in order to get profits, you
00:52:01
have to engage in rage baiting and AB testing and a lack of factchecking and not the New York Times has done
00:52:08
everything right in my view in terms of investing early in innovation and technology and it's still a small shitty
00:52:15
business. Only fans will do more revenue than New York Times this year. >> Absolutely.
00:52:19
>> So what do you do? I I of course you invest in digital. Of course you have
00:52:23
more subscription programs. But the the the only business strategy here is the following. You have to find a deep
00:52:31
pocketed billionaire who says this is such an important asset. It has such positive externalities for our society
00:52:37
that it's worth me cutting a check for 100 to 200 million a year. >> But the notion that someone's going to
00:52:43
come in and reinvent the Washington Post with new subscriptions and new ideas. No, it's not going to happen.
00:52:48
>> I don't think that. Let me tell you. I think there is I agree with you. It's
00:52:52
not a big and you're right. The New York Times is incredibly successful and is a
00:52:55
very small business. I wouldn't say it's a shitty business. It's a small
00:52:58
business, right? It's not Sorry, Meredith, but it is. It's small, but but
00:53:03
she's done a great job with her small business. >> Unbelievable. And it's profitable, which
00:53:06
is great. I wonder if you could do that here and have a similar juosition because the Post has always been the
00:53:12
sort of the Jan to Marsha at the New York Times, right? But I like >> pretty distant second. I know. Pretty
00:53:20
distant second. >> It is. And of course the journal is in there too. And that's going to undergo
00:53:24
something when Rupert goes, you know, there's that's going to change. Um but
00:53:29
but it's a really interesting to me. I know it's emotional. I know you know you
00:53:33
think it's emotional, but I always think like if I was handed CBS, I'm like I
00:53:38
don't know what to do here. like I wouldn't the post I'm like well what if
00:53:42
we try like it feels like there is some opportunity here and I don't mean to
00:53:46
make a lot of money that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about making
00:53:49
something that is sustainable useful profitable enough right so that and and and serves enormous profitable in terms
00:53:59
of society right in helping society and helping really good journalists do what they do best and get get out of their
00:54:07
way that's my feel that's how I feel but you're Right. It's a it's I I was saying
00:54:11
to someone this morning, >> there's no way you can maintain the quality of journalism and the
00:54:16
factchecking and the investigative reporting unless you have someone who recognizes the public good outweighs the
00:54:22
profit motive here. I agree. >> And we keep we keep finding new people who think that they can have both.
00:54:27
>> And the reality is if you want to give people bodily autonomy and have Planned
00:54:31
Parenthood in Mississippi, you're gonna lose money. I mean, >> this is a public good.
00:54:37
>> Yeah. It plays an important role and I pray I can't for the life of me figure
00:54:42
out why Bezos didn't find >> this is the bottom line. Republican billionaires buy football teams,
00:54:48
Democratic billionaires by media companies. >> Except turned into whatever he turned
00:54:52
into. >> Why didn't he call Michael Bloomberg and say, "Michael, you already have a
00:54:56
newsroom. >> Take this off my hands for a dollar." >> Yeah. >> And Bloomberg, whatever you think of
00:55:02
Michael Bloomberg, he's a hero of mine. >> Yeah. >> I think he cares about I think he cares
00:55:05
about democracy. He tries to hit it down the middle. I think he would do a great
00:55:09
job with the post. >> Then he's not so insecure as Jeff Bezos >> and at some point one of these one of
00:55:15
these 30 or 40ome crypto or tech billionaires is going to pop up. Matthew Prince from Cloudflare just pulled out
00:55:21
of my ass. He strikes me as a really thoughtful guy, a really nice man. I'm like, is your legacy going to be a
00:55:29
cloud-based company or is it going to be maybe saying journalism is important? I'm gonna take a billion dollars and
00:55:35
over the next decade I'm gonna make sure that the Washington Post continues to
00:55:39
have you know >> or maybe maybe a lot of these people >> no fear no favor around DC politics or
00:55:45
it's a consortion of them but it but the first meeting has to be >> the first meeting has to be stop the
00:55:52
[ __ ] consensual hallucination we're going to lose $100 million a year. >> I agree. I agree. And on a personal
00:55:57
level, I have to say when I was talking to someone this morning who I very much like I was like, you know, I'm making a
00:56:01
ton of money and I get to do what I want and it's easy. It's not easy. It's just
00:56:06
pleasurable. >> Oh, Cara, if I'm telling you, if I were advising you personally, I'd be like,
00:56:10
don't get [ __ ] near this. Look at your life right now. You're having an
00:56:13
impact. You're making a [ __ ] ton of money. You got young kids at home, and
00:56:17
you want to be up late at night talking to the editor of something, saying why he's pissed off at you cuz you went from
00:56:21
11 people to N. You don't need this [ __ ] at this point in your life. Anyway, I I
00:56:25
would say let me just tell you the please give to their guild. They got laid off. These are people who've done
00:56:30
an amazing public service and I gave a substantive amount of money for me um to them.
00:56:36
>> I'm sorry. I'm I'm going to piss off everyone. Why are we giving money to
00:56:39
people laid off at the >> I do that with lots of layoffs, my friend. You don't know that.
00:56:43
>> You do with the 12,000 people laid off at Amazon last week. >> Uh there if there's a fund, I'd be happy
00:56:47
to give to it. Absolutely. I do. I do. I'm sorry. I do that a lot. You don't
00:56:52
know that. It's a quiet little thing I do. Um anyway, I will if there's one a
00:56:56
fund for Amazon, please let me know and I will be happy to give do it. >> No, you won't. You're not give money to
00:57:01
people laid off at a greedy [ __ ] doesn't mean I am. I give a lot more money.
00:57:05
>> You really think greedy [ __ ] is the right? I think you give a I think you're
00:57:09
very generous. I'm just >> Anyways, I I don't I would I would like
00:57:13
to know what the severance is. I'll give you an example. This cupcake thing called sprinkles. the the female
00:57:19
co-founder came on and said, "This is not what my legacy wanted to be." She
00:57:22
sold the private equity and she gave people one day's notice when they all got fired. Those people should be
00:57:27
publicly shamed like crazy. I would like to know what the severance is for these
00:57:31
300 people, but there are massive layoffs everywhere. >> I agree. And also those snake ranking
00:57:38
the snake rank >> those people who are being laid off. >> I this is going to sound weird. In some
00:57:43
ways, they're they're going to be better off. The Washington Post gets very
00:57:46
talented people. In an effort to reduce costs, they've hired they've gone
00:57:50
younger and younger because younger people are willing to be underpaid. You're going to see so many new
00:57:55
substacks. >> You're going to see so many little puck is going to hire a bunch of these
00:58:00
people. You're probably going to hire one or two of these people, >> maybe.
00:58:04
>> These people are going to go on to greener pastures as opposed to being
00:58:07
subject to the whims of a billionaire who wakes up and thinks >> true. Oh, I don't I don't I don't know
00:58:13
how I feel about the post. Lay off 300 people and keep my distance from it. But what the [ __ ] is he thinking not finding
00:58:19
someone else to take it off his hands? I don't get it. I just don't get it.
00:58:22
>> Let me say a lot of the decline recently. I mean, it's definitely a
00:58:25
secular problem has been directly because of his stupid ass decisions. There there was one after the next. So,
00:58:31
a lot of these problems were because of the way he's been managing this and his
00:58:35
CEO. Let me just say Will Lewis, you should be ashamed of yourself of how you've behaved and all your idiotic.
00:58:41
>> We have a bunch of producers at our different podcast. I don't know if you
00:58:44
can see, I have some of them behind me. Carrie, >> I know that. Yeah. >> But
00:58:47
>> yeah, >> I I called I sent a message to the woman who runs our company and said, "We
00:58:52
should be reaching out to some people at the post. Find people that we love."
00:58:55
>> The post right now is literally a recruiter's dream. >> Y >> everyone at the post, even the ones that
00:59:01
the ones that didn't get laid off, will return your call right now. >> Yep. That's true. And these are very I
00:59:05
don't quite frank I I I I feel sorry from the sense that this was their dream
00:59:09
job. These people are going to be just fine. >> Yeah. >> The these are very talented people. So I
00:59:15
don't >> I think part of capitalism is >> I get it. >> You know if you make if you make it easy
00:59:20
to fire people, you make it easy to hire them. I think I would bet 95% of these people in two years look back on this
00:59:26
and go, "Yeah, I miss it." >> Yeah, a lot of them. >> It was great training and I'm making
00:59:30
more money and having more impact and more relevance now. >> You are fun. Yeah, it's true.
00:59:34
>> And I don't have to wake up and hear what a guy in parting in St. Barts
00:59:37
thinks about layoffs. I don't >> It's true. It's true. But in any case,
00:59:42
Jeff, you're such an [ __ ] Anyway, uh one more quick break. We'll be back for
00:59:47
predictions. Okay, Scott, let's uh hear a prediction. Um I I'm going to um take
00:59:54
a moment though uh before you do that uh to say uh Savannah Guthri's family uh
01:00:00
with their mom missing. I know I've met her mom. She's amazing. I I hope I hope
01:00:06
hope they find her alive. And it's so sad what's happening. It's getting far
01:00:11
too much. Like the media is sort of jumping all over it in kind of an unourred way. But if that helps get her
01:00:17
back, I'm all for it. Um but I just want to send my love out to her family. She
01:00:23
They're wonderful people. It's really interesting, isn't it, how some stories really kind of I mean
01:00:30
35,000 people have supposedly been murdered in Iran. >> Yeah. >> And but this story really hits you
01:00:36
because a people really really appreciate and have a lot of fondness for Savannah,
01:00:41
>> but occasionally there's a story and it just it grabs you, right? I mean, this
01:00:45
story this story has really grabbed people because >> this is kind of everyone's
01:00:50
>> nightmare, not knowing what's happening, not knowing what's going on. Mhm.
01:00:54
>> But I I was really struck at how and it it's nice that occasionally people slow
01:00:58
down and when they hear an individual story, it really moves them. And I think actually I think the attention being
01:01:03
brought to it is probably a good thing. I think there's a lot if anyone sees her
01:01:07
mom they're going to know it. >> That's right. >> Right. That's right.
01:01:10
>> And so I think it's >> Anyways, I I >> there's a surprising not big number of
01:01:14
kidnappings too like in this country. >> It's very rare. >> Yeah.
01:01:18
>> We all talk about the fear of kids and kidnapping. >> It's all over TV, but it's not true.
01:01:22
It's it's very it's very very rare. >> Right. All right. Let's hear a
01:01:27
prediction from you. >> Effectively, I don't know if this is really good news, but essentially
01:01:33
um there are social media bans breaking out all over the world. Norway has a complete ban under 13. Belgium requires
01:01:41
children under 13 to have parental permission. Germany requires parental consent for users aged 13 to 16. Italy
01:01:47
requires parental consent at signup for users under the age of 14. And Spain just announced that it's going to um it
01:01:55
uh it's the latest country. They're banning social media kids under 16. 82%
01:02:00
of Spaniards support banning social media for kids under 14. Greece is also nearing a social media ban for children
01:02:05
under 15. Australia's implemented a similar ban. I also just a shout out to my colleague Jonathan Height. I think
01:02:11
this would have happened anyway, but he's expedited it and I think he deserves a lot of credit for this. Um, I
01:02:17
mean, if you, for those of you thinking about going to academia, you can go into
01:02:21
academia, study social science, get a PhD in psychology, and someday get entire nations to ban phones in schools.
01:02:27
So, to think that academics don't matter, it's you can have a lot of impact. Anyways, that's not my
01:02:35
prediction. Um, my prediction is that this is essentially not only common sense around our children, but this is
01:02:42
the beginning of reciprocal tariffs. What do I mean by that? Other nations are sick of the sclerotic, irrational,
01:02:51
punitive economic warfare that the Trump administration has levied on them with tariffs. And their tariffs are the
01:02:58
following. They're going to start banning our social media platforms. Uh the UK is already going after X. You are
01:03:05
going to start to see over the course of the next 12 to 24 months entire nations
01:03:10
say, you know what, maybe we don't need YouTube here. Maybe Meta should not be
01:03:15
here. May and they'll they'll blanket >> Zoom. I think France is stopping using
01:03:19
Zoom in the government. >> They're going to blanket in, okay, Meta is bad for children, which is true. But
01:03:25
the real motivation in my view is going to be like, you know what, we're kind of
01:03:29
sick. If you're going to start making it harder for Americans to buy our Mercedes
01:03:34
and our Vuitton, we're going to make it harder for people to watch YouTube and
01:03:38
be on Instagram. I think European nations and the rest of the G7 are sick of big tech coming in sucking
01:03:46
billions of dollars out of their economy in exchange for opening a Facebook office in Milan. Their newspapers are
01:03:53
going out of business. Their media companies are going out of business. Their manufacturers are going out of
01:03:57
business. And this is essentially the thing that is tipping these companies over and giving them the backbone to
01:04:02
start banning these things. And it's going to go up the food chain pretty soon. you're going to see a large nation
01:04:08
say, "You know what? I don't think we need Google." So, this is while it's being done under
01:04:14
the very righteous and worthwhile cause of protecting children, which I celebrate and I think is important.
01:04:19
Effectively, what this is is a reciprocal tariff. And pretty soon, it's going to start creeping up. You know
01:04:24
what's going to happen? Big countries are going to decide, you know what? We
01:04:28
no longer want to use Goldman Sachs and McKenzie to do our banking. If you're
01:04:33
gonna start [ __ ] with us, we're gonna start [ __ ] with you. >> Speaking of consumers, they're
01:04:37
consumers, so they can speak with their they can walk. They can walk. That's the
01:04:41
>> I love the idea of consumers speaking with their with their spending power. I
01:04:45
think it makes all the sense. >> I know you do. That's why you look like
01:04:47
a like a unsuccessful pimp this week. What's your outfit for next week? >> I don't know. I'm thinking I bought I
01:04:54
I'll give you a hint. I'll I'll give you a hint. >> Okay. >> I have a hockey jersey and I'm not
01:04:58
wearing any pants. >> Oh, nice. That's good. Good. Be on brand. That's perfect. That's perfect.
01:05:02
on trend and on brand. Uh that's a really that's really important, Scott,
01:05:05
and I think you're right. This is there are before when when these Europe was
01:05:10
not innovative the way the US has been and all these services. There are alternates right now. There are so many
01:05:15
alternates to everything. If the if Silicon Valley thinks they hung the [ __ ] moon, well, they did. They might
01:05:21
have, but no longer. And there are alternates in every single category now that you don't have to put up with the
01:05:29
ridiculous midlife crisis antics of Jeff Bezos or whatever whatever fresh hell Meta is
01:05:36
going to unleash upon us. There are choices now and some of them might be China by the way and that's that's
01:05:43
saying a lot if they're that's where they're going. So I agree with you. I
01:05:46
think it's really important. Um just so you know everyone we will talk about
01:05:50
molt book and open claw next week. It's fine. Agent to agent was always the plan, but um we'll talk about that. It's
01:05:56
interesting. And we also will talk about um section 230. There's been a new bill
01:06:00
to overturn and replace it. Um oddly enough, I ran into uh Joseph Gordon Levit this week and he was here helping.
01:06:07
We'll talk about that next week because section 230 is really interesting. I had
01:06:10
some really interesting discussions with him and others about it. >> Can I just say I love the image of you
01:06:14
being barely able to see over the mail card going around and people mistaking you for a 15-year-old boy. Can I just
01:06:20
say I love that image. >> I love that you started the Washington Post mail room. That is really cool.
01:06:26
>> It was I I reorganized it. It was so messy. I reorganized all the boxes cuz
01:06:30
I'm so anal retentive. I remember doing that. They're like, "What are you
01:06:34
doing?" I'm like, "This is inefficient." And I was like in college.
01:06:37
>> It's true. I was slightly >> fella. Don't worry, you'll grow. Oh,
01:06:41
wait. No, that's Caris Fisher. >> Anyway, they didn't know my name at all.
01:06:45
And let me tell you, from doing that, >> everybody who was talented was nice to
01:06:50
me. Untalented people were [ __ ] It was really >> I wor in a mail room. I worked in the
01:06:54
mail room of Southwestern University School of Law where my mom ran the secretarial pool and we used to have
01:06:58
lunch together. >> And here we are together without my picture behind you. Anyway, I'm not
01:07:04
offended. >> But here's the thing. I'm going to have to move to a [ __ ] everyone's all over
01:07:07
me. You selling your Apple stock? Did you unsubscribe this? I'm going to have
01:07:10
to move to Ted Kazinsk's shed and have no entertainment and have a ham radio
01:07:15
cuz I'm running out of things to unsubscribe to. >> I wanted to watch I've been binging that
01:07:21
I've been binging that gay hockey thing which I think could easily turn me something.
01:07:25
>> Yay. What do you think really quickly? What do you That's is funny because
01:07:28
we'll have a bonus episode tomorrow. I spoke to the executive producers of Heated Rivalry about how they made the
01:07:34
breakout hit for a fraction of the cost of other major streaming shows and what they've got coming next. What do you
01:07:38
think so far? I made Scott watch Peter >> Riley. I think it's an important series
01:07:42
for young men to watch because there's different forms of leadership and masculinity and empathy and love and
01:07:48
sexual identity. And I I got to be honest, Cara, every time I see something like this, I'm reminded of how many
01:07:55
people I lost to AIDS back in the in the '9s. And I don't think I hope and trust
01:08:00
that young people and especially gay men realize how important science is and how
01:08:06
fortunate they are and that America has made a lot of progress around these issues. Uh I can't watch anything about
01:08:12
gay men and not think about the '9s. >> You and I both. Absolutely. Anyway, I'm
01:08:16
so glad you're watching it. I hope I can't wait till you get to episode five.
01:08:20
Anyway, we want to hear from you and we have some homework for our listeners today. Send us a message about your
01:08:25
favorite or least favorite Super Bowl ad after the big game on Sunday. We love the anthropic one.
01:08:30
>> Also, I woke up this morning in a Toronto Maple Leafs jersey, a half bottle drink of Jack, and a condom
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hanging out of my ass. I don't know if that has anything to do with anything.
01:08:38
>> We're taking that out. Go to nymag.com/pivot or call 8551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:08:46
listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe, not unsubscribe, to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next
01:08:53
week.