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The US is actively discussing uh a potential offer to buy Greenland. I mean, they're not just murdering US
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citizens. They're very busy on other things. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. Scott Galloway continues to be under the
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weather, so I brought in two more amazing co-hosts. We've got Audi Cornish, host of CNN This Morning and
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the podcast The Assignment. Uh, and Bill Cohen, one of my favorite people to talk
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about business because there's a lot going on there, author and founding partner of Puck. Welcome, Audi and Bill.
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>> Hey. >> Hey. Great to be here. >> Thank you. >> So, I had nothing to do with Scott's
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disappearance. Yeah. >> Not that I haven't wanted to be on the show a lot. Like, I've been waiting with
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this quarterzip just so that I could be a part of the dialogue. >> Quarter zip.
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>> I did. And I was like, are we talking business? >> Yeah. Um, no. >> So, I'm sure Scott's fine. I didn't do
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anything to him at all. >> No. Okay. All right. You were trying. Yes. That would be a really good show of
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like trying to take down a co-host. >> Like a Nancy Carib on, Bill. >> I do, but I don't have a Warner Brothers
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Discovery quarter zip. >> I wore that for you. I got this from David Zoff >> himself.
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>> I technically did as well. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he gives them out.
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He dresses I'm going to say this honestly. He dresses I told him he dressed like a lesbian and he sent me
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this. >> Only lesbians can say that. I opt out. I unsubscribe. >> Unsubscribe. Um but yes, there a it's
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actually a fantastic vest. I have >> You look great in it. >> Thank you. It's really comfortable and I
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wear it all the time. And uh my son this morning uh said, "Oh, that's the uh
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Scooby-Doo people." So I guess >> that is of all the things >> of all the things.
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>> That's such a for Yes, exactly. We're going to talk about that and I really enjoyed your stuff,
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Bill, but we've got a lot to get to today. Um, so we're going to dig in.
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There's a lot of news and the first one obviously is the fatal shooting of a
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37year-old woman in her car by an ICE agent in Minneapolis and sparking n outrage and protests again. Uh, the
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woman, Renee Nicole Good, uh, was a US citizen, a mother of of three, and a poet. She's was not under any kind of
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investigation, according to law enforcement officials. Homeland Security Secretary Christy Gnome uh said Good was
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quote stalking officers in attempting an act of domestic terrorism. What a heinous person she is. And Minneapolis
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Mayor Jacob uh Fry called that [ __ ] and told ICE to quote, "Get the [ __ ] out
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of Minneapolis." Uh President Trump weighed in on True Social and once again
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blamed the radical left. Um he did an interview just where where the reporters from New showed it to him and he sort of
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walked it back. Uh but he he didn't precisely. Um and of course they're doubling down Tom Hman for a second was
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reasonable and he got the memo that they're supposed to call this woman a radical terrorist. Um I want to get both
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your takes here, but first let me share Scott Galloway's thoughts on this which
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he texted me last night. I'm horrified. History shows politics uh becomes a blood sport. A nation's light begins to
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flicker. uh uh Adam Nuome Whitmer Shapiro should announce candidacy this week and say if elected we are going to
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have the equivalent of the Nermberg trials. There needs to be a reckoning to start the stain of corruption,
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insurrection and bigotry dems are such [ __ ] wimps. That was from Scott. Um the words of Scott Galloway, ladies and
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gentlemen, from his sick bed. Audi, I'll start with you. What do you make of what
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we're seeing? You reported on it all morning on your show on CNN, your morning show. So talk a little bit about
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and you've covered this kind of stuff many times. >> I have. And I mean talk about grim. Like
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I think this woman had dropped her kid off at school like a six-year-old. Um and so many people right now wherever
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they fall on the political spectrum feel a kind of helplessness like wait a second am I really where where I thought
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I the country would be? And so if you're one of those people and you decide well
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I'm going to go out somewhere. I'm going to do something. I'm going to be
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present. >> Um, and kind Yeah. protest. And I'm not saying she definitely was protesting,
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but just the idea that you are in mortal danger now, uh, in these scenarios, I think is pretty terrifying. Also the
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setting, it being Minneapolis, it being this many years after the death of George Floyd, it being in a place where
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protests went for a very long time and in fact other protesters were killed, like it can it can spin out into
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something else. And then lastly, the fact that this whole operation, you know, almost 90% I think 87% of the
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Somali in the state are naturalized citizens. They are legal. So now you are really trying to find one and two and
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three people and you have a city that is prepared. You'll look on your TVs in the
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next day or two and see some protesters wearing their gas masks already because they have seen this movie before a kind
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of militarized um response from law enforcement. >> So can I ask you one other question? The
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response from the Trump administration immediately was trying to spin it. Of course, Christy Gnome had put on
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whatever hat she had that day and started to spew lies. And then the videos, all of them were very much
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different, including Fox News commentators commenting on, well, she was turning away from the ICE person,
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not, you know, the there he she was trying to hit him. She's obviously dropped her kid off from school. There's
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very little known. >> I mean, look, if there's one thing we know how to do as Americans is, uh,
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scrutinize a video of a law enforcement involved killing. Uh, I think we had a fair amount of practice at that. We have
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not had practice doing that with a white mother, you know, of a couple kids. And
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I think this has looked very shocking for people and familiar in ways that feel very sort of dark. The
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administration's whole stance on this entire process has been always double down, always triple down, never give any
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ground. Um because they feel they have not just uh some kind of moral authority. They'll evoke this mandate
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you hear over and over on these cable news panels. this is what people voted for. Um, I'll just wrap up by saying we
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don't matter what the TV news says or commentators. People have eyes and they
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have social media. And I have watched all of these ICE enforcements and arrests and protests on social media
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where people offer their own commentary. And I think that is having way more impact than the administration would
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like to think. They want to think it's a Democratic governor somewhere saying
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something that's rhetoric that make people say f ICE. Uh check the hashtag, you know, it it's not run certainly by
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any Democratic uh messaging operation. >> Right. Right. So, Bill, I want to bring
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you one of the things that I'm watching though is a lot of suddenly business
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people, well-known people, the head of the guy who runs Jeopardy spoke up. Right. And just I just was noticing Paul
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Graham, who I think you know, he was the head of Y Combinator, um wrote, "Ice
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just shot and killed a woman in Minneapolis, a US citizen. How long before we say enough is enough?" Elon
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Musk responded, "Uh, she tried to run people over." And Paul wrote back and
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Paul is I wouldn't call him a liberal by in fact, he's somewhat irritating on
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many levels. Um uh she didn't. Uh no, she didn't. Here's the evidence. She's
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turning the wheel the front wheels of the car to the right away from the ICE officer on her left. She was trying to
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run him over. or why would she turn in the other direction? Um there's Do you
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think Bill because a lot of the you haven't heard, you know, word one from any tech people on any of this or any
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business people on this stuff? >> Yeah, I I think we may be reaching a tipping point on that. uh to use a
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phrase that a lot of business people can understand. I think um this is obviously
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the inevitable outcome of the wider Steven Miller agenda uh which is heinous in almost every respect. And you know
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and you'll have to remember that Steven Miller's grandparents were immigrants
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and if uh his policies were in place for them uh you know maybe they never would
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have come to this country. Grocking Steven Miller will be a year a decades long thing for future historians. But go
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ahead. >> Absolutely. I mean this guy is completely out of control. Witness the
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uh interview he gave to Jake Tapper the other day uh which was happened to be about Venezuela. But the same kind of
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arrogance and hubris applies here. Uh so I mean these situations are p powder kegs uh you know bringing in highly
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militarized uh you know ICE officers into neighborhoods and rounding up people who should never be rounded up.
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You know so it seems so unamerican to me. I don't think this is what we voted
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for at all. >> But why why have businesses remained largely silent >> because you know it it doesn't
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>> during George Floyd. Well, I mean, first of all, it see that seems like a
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lifetime ago, you know, the reaction to George Floyd. I mean, people have whatever gotten with the program. Uh, I
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remember, uh, having a dinner a few months ago with the CEO of a tech company, uh, Cara, who you probably know
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well, who I asked this exact thing. Why are you not speaking up more, uh, uh, profoundly about what's going on here?
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No, because it doesn't affect my business. uh what affects my business is, you know, my shareholders, my
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creditors, my employees. Uh you know, this doesn't affect what Donald Trump is
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doing, what the regime is doing doesn't affect me. It's not my business. I'm
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going to stay out of it even though it's totally reprehensible and that these
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people should be speaking up. >> Mhm. >> I mean, why have FU money if you're not
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going to speak up and use it? >> Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, it'll be
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interesting. Last thing, a Where do you imagine this going now with these videos? I mean, it was really
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interesting the New York Times interview because it looks like he was like, "Oh,
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yeah, I guess not." Will they continue to double down? What is the Because, of
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course, it takes away from their Venezuela capers, which we'll get to in a second. It takes away from their
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Greenland capers. >> I'll be honest, it depends on what happens next. I mean, you'll notice my
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eyes are kind of going like this every few minutes is because right now there is this kind of images of what looks
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like a standoff and uh between protesters who are like linking arms and then you have uh this is the state of
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the country we're in right now. I'm like are these National Guard? Are these
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police? Are these ICE police? Like who am I even looking at? And is this even how you do crowd control? Is this how
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you enforce things? And I just want to add one more thing here. the the ramp up that we are witnessing
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of this law enforcement agency that is not structured the way the others are does not have it's unaccountable in such
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profound ways and I think that I will be very curious if people feel like they voted for that cuz when I hear the
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manosphere and the podcast bros kind of be like I don't know man I don't know if
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you should be I can't believe they're doing this I can't believe they're doing
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that to me that's now reached the stage where the average person does not perceive this as just a mass deportation
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of criminals. I do think that horse has left the barn. It's now do they think
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that what's being grown in their name um that they as voters should step in and
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somehow try and stop it or make their displeasure known >> that the which they are have been doing.
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I mean Gustapo wasn't what we voted for. I guess that's go ahead. >> I mean I just think we're living sorry
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uh through an era of unaccountability. There's no accountability for ICE. There's no accountability for Venezuela.
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There's no accountability for ripping down the east wing of the White House.
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There's no accountability for re uh describing what happened on January uh 6th in on on the White House website. I
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mean, every day there's uh an example of bad behavior that would normally be
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unacceptable. In my lifetime, uh it would be completely unacceptable for our our our politicians to act this way. And
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yet, uh they do it with impunity and there's never any accountability. >> But there is a lever, just no one's
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pulling it. I mean, I hear Scott talk like this all the time, but the business community seems to have walked away from
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the awakening >> and a bunch of them went, "That really went too far, don't you think?" And so,
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they don't give a [ __ ] Like honestly, I genuinely feel like they are going on
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yachts and building up fortresses for themselves and they no longer feel actually engaged with the country in a
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lot of ways. And I don't say this as some like raving liberal. I'm just like
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they are absent. They don't yank funding from things. They don't get advertising
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from things. They go to every dinner they have at the White House. Like I don't know what the business community
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>> I think they do. I think they do give a [ __ ] I I think that they prefer not to
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be the nail that sticks up that gets this madman's attention and then puts them in the crosshairs and they have to
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deal with some, you know, analogous event that uh that they didn't want to have to deal with because they spoke up.
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So, I think they do care. >> Renee Good took a risk. Billionaires won't. And I'm confused.
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>> Yeah. All right. Well, that's a good point. Yeah. Go ahead. >> That's why I say if you've got a few
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money, why aren't you using it? >> Yep. Yep. I I have to say I'm with Audi
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on this one. It's like they could This is not hard. None of this is particularly hard and it doesn't affect
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your own >> midterms are coming up. You can throw around all your Free Amendment money,
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you know, First Amendment money then. Yeah. Will they? I'm not holding my breath.
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>> Well, now we're going to talk about Venezuela. Here are some of the
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highlights of the story since our last episode. President Trump will meet with oil industry executives on Friday at the
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White House after saying the US may subsidize the company's efforts to rebuild in Venezuela. In other words,
00:14:00
the taxpayer will pay for it, which he estimated would take 18 months. Uh, probably just made that up. On
00:14:05
Wednesday, President Trump said US control of Venezuela could last for years. The president has withdrawn the
00:14:11
US from 66 international organizations and treaties, including climate groups. The US seized two oil tankers, including
00:14:17
a Russian flagged vessel linked to Venezuela in the North Atlantic. The national security leaders have said the
00:14:24
administration does not plan to use ground troops in Venezuela. Of course, in related news, the US is actively
00:14:30
discussing uh a potential offer to buy Greenland and hasn't ruled out military
00:14:35
uh action. I mean, they're not just murdering US citizens. They're very busy
00:14:39
on other things. Um so, Bill, start. How do you suspect these oil executives will
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be responding in this meeting? Um because it's it's a dicey situation for
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them no matter what, and the price of oil, of course, is not as high as they'd
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like it to be, >> right? So, how do you respond to this rampant imperialism? Uh, if you're a CEO
00:14:59
of a of an oil company that might or might not benefit from this imperialism, uh, I think that the economics of the
00:15:07
situation do not necessarily lend itself to these companies wanting to go in there. Uh, it's going to take billions
00:15:14
of dollars to apparently fix up the refiner, >> which they also had lost previously,
00:15:19
right? whatever sunk sunk money different companies whatever uh you know okay so you give them a heads up early
00:15:27
that you're doing this cuz he loves to court their favor uh but I don't think
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this is nearly going to be nearly as smooth and as easy uh it never is first of all look what happened in in Iraq and
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that was supposed to be over in 10 days right >> and good for oil companies similar words
00:15:43
actually >> right similar words didn't work out that way and I don't see this working out
00:15:47
that way either besides car we are net exporters of oil. Now, why why do we need more oil from Venezuela? I mean,
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this is just this crazy uh hubristic uh uh ugly uh American behavior that I thought we would have learned from over
00:16:07
the decades of doing similar things, especially in Latin America. And and I'm
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not I mean obviously if you're the CEO of one of these oil companies, you get
00:16:14
invited to the White House by a madman, you know, you go and you listen to what he has to say. But I think as an
00:16:20
economic matter, it's going to take a long time before they, you know, raise
00:16:24
their hands and say, "Oh, yes, me too. I want to get in here and, you know,
00:16:27
extract this oil because >> even if they get a freebie from taxpayers, if he's able to do that at
00:16:32
all, right, which is >> yeah, we don't know the mechanisms about how this will work." Also, Bill, I was
00:16:37
wondering in the era of this kind of Trump administration trans transactional foreign policy and
00:16:45
transactional business policy, can >> everything's a transaction. >> Yeah. So, you can't do a no strings
00:16:52
attached situation with the Trump administration, even as an oil company, I would think, right? Like, if they're
00:16:57
going to not like even Nvidia has to give a slice, so like why wouldn't you?
00:17:01
And our company starting to be wary about that. >> Totally. I mean there's I mean he said
00:17:07
he's going to you know seize the oil that has apparently been you know ours and locked up apparently and he's going
00:17:14
to sell it on the market and control the proceeds of that sale. I mean he's got
00:17:21
his fingers in all these pies. It's this ultimate grift. You know the Center for
00:17:26
American Progress has got a website now that tracks the grift. It's nearly $2
00:17:30
billion since January uh since he was inaugurated. This is another part of the grift and and and I'm always uh very
00:17:39
concerned about, you know, you have these big uh exogenous events you like going into Venezuela or or what happened
00:17:45
in Min Minneapolis. What's what are they doing? What are they trying to deflect
00:17:50
from? All right. Uh is it is it the rewriting of January 6th? Is it Jeffrey Epstein? Is it, you know, Graph? I mean,
00:17:59
taking down the east wing of the White House, the $400 million ballroom. I mean, what kind of crazy thing is he
00:18:06
trying to distract us from? It's wag the dog, it's Orwellian, and you know, we're
00:18:12
just again, there's no accountability for an oil executive going to that meeting. What I I I have talked to two
00:18:18
of them and they're like, "This is not good for us. The price of oil, you know,
00:18:22
they I mean, economically, it's kind of insane. Why are you going to invest billions of
00:18:26
dollars trying to extract oil in Venezuela when we're already net exporters of oil? I don't I don't
00:18:32
understand. >> In an easier situation, right? >> I mean, the potential there is huge,
00:18:36
right? Like they're sitting on the reserve. It's just does this administration have the attention span?
00:18:42
Is the country willing to do what it takes to secure a long-term investment? I mean, no one has the appetite for a
00:18:51
very long list of things for the reasons you guys everyone has said, which is like the ghost of Iraq and and that
00:18:58
whole conversation just haunted foreign policy. >> So many others. I mean, why are we I
00:19:04
mean, what what if the reverse situation were happening? I mean, honestly, what if Venezuela came in, kidnapped Trump
00:19:11
and Melania, took them off in Venezuela, and then started saying, "Okay, now we
00:19:15
own Exxon, Chevron, you know, and and all the Kono and all the other oil companies and we're just going to
00:19:22
extract all the oil because we we want to. I mean, >> I have to Cara, I want to raise
00:19:27
something with you and get your point of view, which is that there's a lot of
00:19:30
people who would say all the Trump people really do is overt versions of things that the US has always done
00:19:37
covertly. So, the long list of Latin American regime change and interventions, I I'm just going to pick
00:19:43
a date and go back to like 51 or something. Um, now the only difference is they just do it, right? And instead
00:19:49
of us playing this like absurd game with Donald Rumsfeld about oil and whether it's the oil and whether it's not and
00:19:55
then Jim Baker is like, "Oh, it's definitely I mean just nonsense." Now we
00:19:59
just have people saying the thing >> they saying it's oil. >> Yeah. And like is there something to be
00:20:04
said for a like you're addressing everything more directly? And number two, what is for Democrats? What's their
00:20:11
response? What are you going to tell a Venezuelan expat? like, well, we really want that dictator to stay because we
00:20:18
don't like the way they're doing this. >> Well, as as many people point out,
00:20:21
Maduro is a is an autocrat and a very tyrannical one, right? It's not like I
00:20:26
think his own people knifed him in the back. That's my my take on the whole thing is is a Deli who looks harmless
00:20:32
but is not in any way. >> She was head of the intelligence correct department at one point and she was head
00:20:38
of the oil. Like that regime is still there. They're violent. They're repressive. They're turning on each
00:20:42
other. And if you're a Democrat, do you just say, "But uh actually he needs to
00:20:46
come to Congress appropriation something something when you have all these people
00:20:50
in the country saying we needed the help. Maybe this maybe we want to thank Trump for doing this."
00:20:56
>> They do. They do. I mean, but that it's hardly pointful who he's not he's not
00:21:00
the president of Venezuela, so who cares? He it's not his job. >> I mean, I think a lot of Venezuelans in
00:21:04
Florida do like I think >> expats who have left, right? They're a very different group of people and
00:21:09
people there. I just did a a long uh podcast with some historian uh David Sanger and some others about this and
00:21:16
one of the things that was interesting to me was that there's a real rift between the people who 25% of the
00:21:23
population left and the people who were there and you know there's a whole there
00:21:27
again not our country not our problem >> but we saw this with the Cuban community
00:21:30
and the Cuban Republican community right like uh Democrats lost that community for decades after and now the secretary
00:21:38
of state is basically the product of that political lineage Right. Exactly. Which is why they're focusing on Cuba
00:21:45
next. And but one of the things is I think would you cringing in plain sight is what you're asking about. They're
00:21:50
crimeing in plain sight. I do think there are one of the things the response was in the no one's ever done this. I'm
00:21:56
like hold the hold my beer. Yes they did. Panama. Yes they did. Haiti. Yes we did. Iraq. Iran. Like Chile. Like yes we
00:22:06
did. And except what Donald Trump is doing is not saying oh it's a democracy
00:22:11
thing. Oh, it's because of this. He's or it's because of political prisoners or
00:22:16
it's because he's just saying, "Yeah, it's the oil." And then you have Howard
00:22:19
Nutnik who seems to be in a bathroom piping up at the minerals like like that. I don't think and I think actually
00:22:25
the Trump administration has made when people point to his grift, they go, "Well, he's doing it transparently."
00:22:31
Like, so cramming in plain sight is better and it's on a scale that's unprecedented. That's really the more
00:22:38
interesting part of it. Um, but it's still it's still stupid. Like I don't
00:22:42
know what else to say. It's stupid as Bill pointed out because of the price of
00:22:45
oil is going to come down, crashing down presumably, >> right? I mean, did he really think this
00:22:49
through? I mean, you know, the oil executives will go to this meeting, but to get them to invest billions of
00:22:55
dollars to refine or get that oil out of the ground and sell it into a market where the price of oil is low,
00:23:02
relatively speaking, and we're already net exporters of oil. Why are they going
00:23:06
to do that? think that you can't even get a guarantee from the government that they'll secure the
00:23:12
workforce that would do this. I mean there there's been there is no day two >> uh why are we invading another country
00:23:21
kidnapping their president so we can take their natural resources. >> Yeah, it does happen with the shoeer on
00:23:27
the other foot. I I think there might be a little bit of >> the old if Obama did this. We're sort of
00:23:32
way beyond if Obama did this kind of thing. But in related news, speaking of which, um, speaking of minerals and
00:23:39
things we want there and and strategically indeed important place, Greenland. Um, now from what I
00:23:45
understand from this panel I did, we can go to Greenland right now and put as many bases on it as we want. We could
00:23:51
put 300 bases. We had 16 17 bases there. We closed 16 of them. So we have every right to be in Greenland from a 1950s
00:24:01
treaty. So we don't even have to >> Yeah. 51 >> 50 like we don't have to do anything. We
00:24:07
can just open all those things and like squat I guess squat in Greenland. I think that's the way I think that's the
00:24:13
technical term for it. Um so what what happens but but it has created this this NATO crisis existential crisis um
00:24:22
especially if he does something milit with the military rather than just offer to buy it. Uh thoughts first Audi and
00:24:30
then Bill. >> Oh no I want to hear Bill first. I'm kind of curious >> economically is is it a good is it a
00:24:36
good deal? >> Look, he he he he doesn't care uh as he's proven for years, it doesn't care
00:24:41
about NATO. So, if he's provoking uh confrontation with NATO and a way to get
00:24:46
out of NATO, okay, fine. Or maybe it's bluster. And I mean, do we need to buy
00:24:53
Greenland? As you said, we can do already or allowed to do what we want. is just another example of this crazy
00:25:00
wacky uh uh imperialistic behavior that is so unbecoming and you would think that we would have learned from our past
00:25:08
mistakes in this area and it makes people hate us and resent us which is part of the reason we got a 9/11
00:25:15
situation is that hate and resentment uh around the world and he's fmenting it
00:25:20
without any accountability. Uh and to what end? I mean, again, if you if there's a treaty that says we can
00:25:26
already put bases there and we haven't done it, well, why not just do that? Why
00:25:30
are we provoking uh a confrontation with one of >> He wants to be the first US president to
00:25:37
expand territory since whoever it was. Yeah, >> that's that is to me the
00:25:42
>> So, he wants to do this his version of Louisiana purchase, does he? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He could he wants his
00:25:49
face on Mount Rushmore? He wants his face on the coin. >> On a coin. Yeah. He's building his $400
00:25:54
million uh ballroom. I mean, this guy >> never going to get built. I'm just
00:26:00
telling you, never going to get built. That's my That's my feeling. My thoughts
00:26:03
is that, you know, I think it's baffling for all of us because he tends to uh
00:26:07
first of all, his ideas of foreign policy are often frozen in particular uh vintage, right? It's like he really does
00:26:14
just care a lot about tariffs. He thinks that's the way to do it. So tariffs it
00:26:19
is you know um resources and transactional uh I think Google called it transactional predation of resources
00:26:28
he sees himself as doing like what China is doing or something like that. Now, of
00:26:33
course, it's very different. It's very, very different. And it's often, as you
00:26:37
mentioned, Bill, um, undermining our allies. And I think that it is very, it's very difficult to watch in real
00:26:46
time the postworld war II world order and systems be not just chipped away, but kind of kicked in the knee. And
00:26:55
maybe like retirement. >> Yeah, you can go. Maybe like retirement it was always a myth you know like maybe
00:27:01
it was never going to last more than 50 to 80 years but we are witnessing the falling apart of something that doesn't
00:27:08
mean that something else can't be rebuilt in its place but uh for sure I think that it might be baffling to the
00:27:14
average person because you're like why are we suddenly talking about Greenland
00:27:18
and you can say that almost every week why are we talking about X why are we talking about
00:27:22
>> let me just add in one of the Greenland certainly is a strategic and there are
00:27:27
minerals to be whatever that kind of stuff. >> Under a lot of ice. >> Under a lot of ice. By the way,
00:27:33
Greenland isn't green and Iceland isn't ice. Um I I'd like to point that out.
00:27:37
>> Thank you for that. >> Anytime. Anytime. Um but to me, the best economic thing to do from a business
00:27:44
point of view is to help Ukraine because that is a country if it was renovated, they have high technical expertise. Uh
00:27:51
we would we would speaking of US benefiting economically that's our best economic bet to get
00:27:57
>> that's like the one thing we won't do the Russians out and create a very
00:28:02
vibrant technologically forward we would make a lot of bank there versus a Greenland or a Venezuela or anywhere
00:28:11
else to me if that's your criteria is what's the best deal to me Ukraine is
00:28:16
the best deal from an if you're just going to be that venal of >> Can I raise one more thing that's sort
00:28:21
of baffling to me. You have a generation of Republicans in MAGA world, whatever,
00:28:27
who were against the Forever Wars. You have Navy Seals in Congress now, lawmakers. They're there because they
00:28:34
were against Forever Wars. They were against our actions abroad and interventions, and they hate the
00:28:39
neocons, and they're kicking dirt over Dick Janie's grave. And I don't
00:28:44
understand them right now. I don't know if this is going to be like the fiscal
00:28:48
hawks who just sort of like squirm away, you know, and don't say anything about
00:28:52
what he's doing. But when it comes to foreign policy, the far right that is against interventionism
00:29:00
has lost on every single argument. Like whether it's Iran, whether it's whatever, like he doesn't care what they
00:29:06
think about that. There are people green has been talking about it. Mass there's
00:29:10
>> well she >> resigns like leaving never gives zero fs anyway like Rand Paul I mean it's sort
00:29:17
of the same handful of people right >> and I legit it's like >> Lindsey Graham has gotten his wings
00:29:23
again right >> um and all those people who allegedly didn't want intervention are oddly
00:29:30
silent in these moments. >> Uh Bill, last question here. Um, is there any economic goodness to this
00:29:38
>> of trying to, you know, buy Greenland? >> I mean, >> for again, first of all, it's it's it's
00:29:44
it's so unattractive >> the way he's going about it and doing what he's doing. Are there economic
00:29:50
benefits? There might be, Cara. How how the hell are we going to know? I mean, how do we know right now whether there
00:29:58
might be economic benefits? First of all, what I mean is if a client came to you and said, "I want to buy Greenland."
00:30:02
What would be the thing as an investment banker you would do? >> I want to buy Greenland. Are you out of
00:30:07
your [ __ ] mind? Oh, >> okay. That's >> going to piss off one of our best allies
00:30:12
to try to obtain this, you know, block of ice, you know, that may have strategic value. And if it's like
00:30:18
strategic defensive value, we are, as you said, we already have the right to put bases up there. Why do we close 16
00:30:24
of the 17? Let's open them again or whatever it is. If if if it's if it's
00:30:28
like controlling the Arctic and being having a policy matter and a national defense issue. Yeah. Okay. I get that. I
00:30:34
get that. But what you want to mine for minerals under >> a mile of ice. Yeah, that might work.
00:30:40
Maybe, you know, with global warming, of course, that's not an issue anymore.
00:30:44
We're not we're not warming up anymore apparently. So, it's going to be like
00:30:48
many millennium before we get under that to a client like that. >> You know, I'm curious. I hope that's the
00:30:54
way I was speaking last night. One thing, Bill, I think there's so much foreign policy uh action that I think
00:31:00
when you look at say the Abraham Accords for the Trump administration, they feel
00:31:03
like if you can get people doing business together, that inherently creates the um environment for peaceful
00:31:12
interaction that the money is what is going to make those things work, not arbitrary red lines in diplomatic
00:31:19
conference rooms. Maybe, but it's just been a graft for the Trump administration and the Trump family.
00:31:26
It's all been about graft. It hasn't been about opening up. >> Grift, but Graph, too. All right. When
00:31:33
we get uh we're going to take a quick break. We come back. Uh maybe Bill's
00:31:37
Bills and my favorite topic, Warner Brothers rebuffs. Paramount again. No surprise. I'm back with Audi Cornish and
00:31:43
Bill Cohen. Warner Brothers Discovery has rejected Paramount's latest buyouted
00:31:47
offer, urging its shareholders to stick with Netflix. Warner Brothers said Paramount's bid was not superior to the
00:31:52
72 billion Netflix offer for its studios and streaming businesses. The board also
00:31:56
flagged the uncertainty risk around Paramount's offer, saying it would effectively be a leverage buyout, the
00:32:01
largest in history. This comes after Larry Ellison stepped in to personally backs stop Paramount's offer with a $40
00:32:07
billion equity guarantee. And just a little while ago, Paramount reaffirmed its $30 a share allcash offer for Warner
00:32:13
Brothers. No more bill. um you've done a lot of reporting on this and let me just
00:32:17
add in how Versent also Versant is what I like to call it um like Quasant uh factors in all of this. Comcast
00:32:25
completed a spin-off of Versent this week which includes MS Now, CNBC and other networks. Versent shares closed
00:32:31
down 13% on their first day and now down 29% for the week. Although that is index
00:32:36
funds repurposing themselves according to many investors and I think that's correct. All well, Paramount has been
00:32:41
arguing that Warner's cable channels stub are worth around a dollar a share.
00:32:45
Um, let's talk a little bit about this. Now, Audi works for CNN, which is >> Yeah, that's my disclaimer.
00:32:52
>> Is the parent company >> is the parent company. Um, I am a contributor to them, but I will be
00:32:57
leaving if if Paramount gets it. So, I don't and I don't give a [ __ ] Um, so
00:33:02
I'm going to a lot of you may weigh in as you want. Uh, I am happy. >> I am literally here to learn on this
00:33:07
front. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Bill, why don't you walk us through this and what
00:33:10
happens next? >> Sure. Well, the the key point that what just happened was this idea that the
00:33:15
Paramount offer uh at $30 a share is the deemed by the board of WBD not to be quote superior at this time. Okay? Cuz
00:33:24
if they did deem it to be superior, uh whatever that means, that's a sort of a
00:33:29
vague term which comes a lot of judgment comes into that. uh uh if they did deem
00:33:33
it to be superior, they could break their merger agreement with Netflix and turn their attention to the Paramount
00:33:39
deal. They would owe Netflix a breakup fee of $2.8 billion and then, you know, we'd have the bidding war would begin
00:33:45
again. Uh so they they did what you would expect them to do, which was say, why are we going to you know, we've
00:33:52
we've got this merger agreement with Netflix. We're happy with it. We think
00:33:55
it's worth more, and uh there's no reason at this moment to to change that
00:34:01
recommendation. That doesn't mean that they uh if Paramount uh were to raise
00:34:05
its bid as it sort of indicated that it uh might do because it said it wasn't
00:34:10
hadn't made its best and final offer but yet it hasn't done anything beyond $30
00:34:15
yet that they wouldn't change that recommendation and >> they did note they would listen. One of
00:34:20
the board members noted that on CNBC like if they want to lob another number over, we're happy to take
00:34:26
>> they are in what is called Revlon mode now of selling they have to sell the
00:34:31
company to the highest bidder. They are required, you know, by Delaware law essentially to do that. And that's why
00:34:38
they're constantly re-evaluating this uh these two bids. And once again, they've
00:34:42
I mean, there's no difference between uh uh this, you know, the December 4th bid,
00:34:47
final bid that Paramount made of $30 a share hasn't changed in a month. So, if
00:34:52
if they want to upset the Apple Card here, they are going to have to raise their bid. Now, they may not want to.
00:34:57
>> You also had noted these fees of uh that Paramount wants more control over uh
00:35:03
certain loans and the the there's a lot of money there. Warner Brothers is concerned about the uh way that
00:35:11
Paramount would let them operate their own company between signing and closing. And since it's like an 18-month process
00:35:18
generally to get this kind of a deal uh uh regulators approval both in the EU and here to get it closed, they need to
00:35:26
know that they can operate their business in the normal course. And uh Paramount put several covenants into
00:35:32
their proposed merger agreement that would limit the flexibility that Warner Brothers has during that period. And
00:35:38
Warner Brothers believes that that would cost them >> which Netflix has said no problem.
00:35:42
>> Netflix has said you know do what you want which is another reason that
00:35:46
they're gone with the Netflix deal. Netflix also said you know if you don't
00:35:49
take our deal we're going to walk away which you know put a little gun to their
00:35:52
head and so they you know they went with the bird in the hand and it at the time
00:35:56
it was the better deal. made total sense and it still basically makes total sense. It's a real tossup now because of
00:36:03
the value of this global network stub the you know part of the business where Audi works CNN uh is potentially going
00:36:12
to be spun off under the Netflix deal and so the value of that business is a spunoff entity comes into play
00:36:20
>> under the Paramount deal they're buying the whole company so that's a mood point
00:36:24
so you know that's why you're know trying to judge the value >> what it's valued at right and certain
00:36:29
people is paying three to five three $3 a share. Now she was $3. Now the chairman of Warner Brothers Discovery
00:36:36
Board said on CNBC $3 to $5. Uh Morgan Stanley says, you know, A$150. Uh the the uh Paramount people say a
00:36:46
$140 >> and there's all debt issues around if they pull some more debt off it could go
00:36:50
up. If if if uh when they there's what $15 billion in debt a moment uh at the
00:36:56
moment they're talking about putting $15 billion on Audi's company and you know
00:37:00
is that too much. Is that going to >> Can you pay for that Audi? >> Yeah. That's why I'm wearing a quarter
00:37:04
zip. I can afford the full zip. >> Yeah, >> but it's not a vest. It's a full quarter
00:37:10
zip. If you really want to pay down that debt, you may need to wear a vest. >> Exactly. Uh, so I mean there are a lot
00:37:16
of kind of subtle nuances going on here which which really puts Paramount, you know, in a in a bad position to be
00:37:23
honest. Uh, if they really want to win, they just have to spend more of Larry's
00:37:28
money. >> Larry's money. He's got to get daddy. Nepomogle has to get daddy. Pay more.
00:37:31
You know, when this started, did I tell you not as smart as you think? Like, and
00:37:35
you said they have smart advisors. I'm like >> dumb. But I don't think they're
00:37:39
listening to them. >> No, I think that's part of the problem. >> Well, cuz still dumb, right? And you can
00:37:43
see that over at CBS. Very dumb. What's happening there? Like what a way to run
00:37:48
a network right into the wall like on a day on the daily essentially. >> We won't get into it, but they suck. Um
00:37:56
so so when is when what happens next? They have to just raise the price. And then what is Netflix do? What is and
00:38:02
then there's the whole Trump thing. See, let me just add one more question. There's the whole Trump thing which
00:38:07
they've touted their friendship with Trump, but as far as I'm concerned, he's
00:38:10
a little busy. I don't think he's going to and he's got limited time before the
00:38:13
midterms. That dragging this thing out is not good for Paramount because the closer you get to the election and if
00:38:20
the Democrats take over, they will not get it through either. They don't they
00:38:23
will lose that ability to control the process because Trump will be essentially, you know, left naked
00:38:29
without clothes, right? Essenti with he won't be able to help his friend Larry.
00:38:34
I'm sure right now he can't help his friend Larry. I think less and less
00:38:37
every passing day. But your thoughts? >> Well, everybody's now quote unquote
00:38:43
Trump's friend and uh Larry's his friend. Ted Sarendos is his friend. You
00:38:47
know, >> he's played it beautifully, I will say. >> But he's a, you know, big Democrat. His
00:38:52
wife was ambassador, you know, under Obama. I mean, so, uh, >> not sure that matters anymore. No, I
00:38:59
mean everybody, you know, he wants fieldalty paid to him and if you've got a big deal that you want to get through,
00:39:05
you're going to pay that feelalty because >> except I don't know if he has that power
00:39:09
as much as everybody. I don't think he will rush to Larry's any he loves to get
00:39:14
involved in this car. >> Yeah, he's busy with other things now. He's got
00:39:18
>> seems he he's he's our most healthy president ever. He's there's no time. He doesn't
00:39:24
sleep. >> There's no time. There's no time. >> I hope you're right. shouldn't be
00:39:27
involved in this. All right. So, so far I've been right about all of this. So,
00:39:30
as I said to Scott all the time, but what happens next >> is that going to be the title of your
00:39:33
memoir? >> Yes. Yes, I'm right. >> Yeah. Uh, look, what happens next is
00:39:37
that the their tender offer is open till January 21st and they're going to between now and then go around their
00:39:44
hostile tender offer that Paramount has made. They're going to go around to the
00:39:47
big shareholders >> and you noted it was only a small amount. It was only >> well so far. But that that's
00:39:52
understandable because there are a lot of conditions to this deal that are kind of like they the tender offer can't
00:39:58
happen unless they have a merger agreement with Warner Brothers. Well, they're not going to get a merger
00:40:02
agreement with Warner Brothers unless there's a superior offer. So, uh, you know, basically people aren't going to
00:40:08
tender, but they are going to go until maybe the last minute at at most at best, but they are going to go around
00:40:15
and make this case that their $30 a share allcash deal is superior to Netflix because of this business of the
00:40:23
Audi's company not being worth this $3 to5 a share or whatever it's called,
00:40:28
>> which is kind of technical and confusing to most people, right? >> Yes. But this is the kind of thing that
00:40:32
these guys get into the weeds about. And so what is your what what's the next
00:40:36
they raising the price is the only thing to do, right? Correct. >> And raising the price to around $34 a
00:40:42
share is the only way for Paramount to win this thing. Otherwise, >> the Saudis. What about the There's also,
00:40:48
>> you know, it's Larry's another 10 billion for Larry. >> Mhm. And
00:40:51
>> that's it's it's you know, a dollar a share is because it's already
00:40:55
non-economic, Bill. This thing is already so ridiculous. >> They've decided that they have to have
00:40:59
it. They've made seven bids. Uh, I suspect they're going to do it. I suspect they will raise their offer to
00:41:06
34 and they will win. I hate to, you know, I think they will end up winning, but I, you know, it could could be
00:41:13
wrong. I mean, there's no way without raising this bid that that Warner Brothers going to change its
00:41:20
recommendation. Not going to happen. >> I I I don't know about that, but I think
00:41:24
if they do win, they're not going to get it through. That's too much. The time is
00:41:27
too short. And by that time it will be the Democrats calling for blood and then it will be okay.
00:41:33
>> Well, there's also a risk that Netflix won't get their deal done either,
00:41:37
>> but less I mean that's fine, but it's not the same thing, right? It's not like
00:41:41
this. I'm the best. Their whole argument has been I'm the best friend of um
00:41:45
>> Well, right. >> Stupid argument. >> Well, it's so transactional. You know,
00:41:50
what is Larry? What have you done for me this week? Did you donate to my ballroom
00:41:54
this week or not? Did you have you >> and Ted could do the same thing. A lot
00:41:58
of the stuff Larry can do, Ted can do. >> Comcast did it which was quite surprising
00:42:04
but you know everybody is paying filty now. Uh Cara. >> So Audi any thoughts? Any thoughts?
00:42:10
>> I know that coming from NPR uh and coming from like nonprofit like oh what
00:42:16
are we going to do? the politics will change that I was not fully prepared for like corporate media and it has been an
00:42:25
education like for sure it's been an education I think one of the hundreds of
00:42:30
thousands of reasons for me not to comment on this is kind of for the thing you guys say are saying which is like
00:42:37
>> we're in the realm of like personalities and regulation and the government and
00:42:42
and so it's not the same as sitting around talking about a business deal or even a hostile takeover. It's kind of
00:42:49
something else. And if you notice people not speaking up, I mean, A, we can't,
00:42:55
right? Because we're in the middle of a regulatory issue, but B, to say it's above our pay grade
00:43:01
is an understatement, >> right? That's a fair point. That's a fair point. But, by the way, over at
00:43:05
NPR, they've said, "Fuck you, government." And they're doing great,
00:43:07
just fine. >> I had breakfast with NPR host this morning, and he was like, "We don't even
00:43:13
want to talk about it." Also, the thing is they've moved on and they're doing
00:43:17
rather well under Katherine. >> It was always, like I said, it was always haunting us there.
00:43:22
And now it's like now you got to just compete in the marketplace. But lucky for them, they do fundamentally have a
00:43:27
brand people trust. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think >> for a president >> uh for a president to be sticking his
00:43:34
fingers into a individual deal, you know, is not normal. There are agencies that are supposed to be at arms length
00:43:43
that deal with these issues and that's the way it has worked. >> Yes. >> But this president likes to
00:43:49
>> get his people often often let me let me end on this. I have a lot of people like
00:43:55
always go a couple years ago would be like can you believe he did this? And I was like I do. I believe it. He's done
00:44:00
it seven times before. Let me tell you he's he does it see Greenland. See Venezuela. See
00:44:06
>> that's why Carrie he does have time for this. He makes time for this kind of
00:44:09
crazy [ __ ] >> I don't think so. >> All right. Well, >> we I just I just this I think they have
00:44:15
taken far too long for this. They could have done the 34. >> You are right
00:44:20
>> if they were smarter. But we'll see. We'll see. And by the way, and if they
00:44:23
don't do it, >> he is holding a very expensive leaky Larry has bought himself an expensive
00:44:28
leaky yacht uh that he is going to not know how to unload because that's there's no way around it's too small.
00:44:34
But but without doing this, it's only a six billion only only a $6 billion equity bet for him. So if he loses
00:44:41
>> But I'm saying he's just a he's just >> Yeah. No, that's why they're serious
00:44:45
about trying to do it. >> You know, they know that they're at a >> they know that they're at a strategic
00:44:50
disadvantage with >> it. And even with it, still a hobbit. Anyway, um let's go uh cuz hello YouTube
00:44:56
by the way. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Grock hits despicable new lows. Oh, we're back
00:45:02
with another headline. Elon Musk AI chatbot Grock is facing criticism from governments around the world as it
00:45:07
continues to create sexualized images of women and children. Grock imagine an AI
00:45:12
image generator includes spicy mode that can generate adult content. Meanwhile, Musk's XAI says it raised $20 billion in
00:45:19
funding round exceeding the target of 15 billion including from Fidelity. Um just
00:45:24
that just today they're making uh uh filthy images of the woman who was killed in Minneapolis. Um the European
00:45:31
countries are are losing their minds. You haven't heard word one from Sundar
00:45:35
Pachai at at Google or um Tim Cook at Apple who would have should have been tam is supposed to be against the law.
00:45:44
So you two you're you're you're you're soiling yourselves in public by not
00:45:49
doing anything about this. That's my point of view. But why this funding round suggests investors don't care
00:45:54
about these issues? I'd love each of you to weigh in. Bill, you first on uh on
00:45:59
what's happening here. >> As a great American once said, uh Cara uh X is a Nazi porn bar. And so yes, it
00:46:08
was. Thank you. Uh and it certainly is. It certainly is. And this is just another example of it. Uh but look, from
00:46:17
a business point of view, uh XAI and the merger between XAI and X saved X, right?
00:46:24
It saved uh Fidelity's investment in X as well as Larry Ellison's and Mark
00:46:30
Andre's and uh you know uh and other friends of Elon's uh so I guess and the
00:46:37
banks who were about sitting on $13 billion of of loans that they might lose a lot of money on. Uh so that merger uh
00:46:47
uh saved the X deal which you know got to give I guess uh Elon credit for devising and conceptualizing that and
00:46:55
now he's raising $20 billion at a what $350 billion valuation or whatever it
00:47:01
is. I mean, uh, you know, I guess from a purely business point of view, Cara, you
00:47:07
have to admire, uh, Elon's ability to, uh, make, uh, chicken salad out of chicken [ __ ] And you've got to admire,
00:47:17
I guess, the fact that suddenly he's now worth, you know, $700 billion because of
00:47:23
SpaceX, etc., going public. I mean, so the guy knows how to make money for himself. A trillion dollar pay package
00:47:30
out of Tesla. uh his old pay package was reinstated by the courts. I mean, so all
00:47:36
right, on one level, you have to kind of admire that if you're an American who
00:47:41
believes in sort of Darwinian capitalism. On the other hand, you know, you expect Elon Musk, and you know this
00:47:48
better than anyone, to to eliminate these images and go, you know, whole hog on trying to reduce the Nazi porn bar
00:47:57
aspect of what he's created here. So why haven't this is cease samp this is this
00:48:03
is porn of children like I I think he would utterly allow porn of women. I think he's he's a misogynist. So that's
00:48:09
sort of that's water under the bridge for him so to speak. But with children
00:48:14
this is something that usually sets off a firestorm a problem. Any reason why they're like fine with c Sam? I mean, I
00:48:22
mean, again, does Elon Musk uh like to do the right thing when it comes to these things, or does he just like to
00:48:29
claim it's free speech and, you know, whatever? Let it let it ride. I mean, you know, he reinstated uh Trump. you
00:48:36
know, you know, I I don't I I wouldn't uh lose sleep or or hold my breath
00:48:43
thinking that Elon Musk is going to do the right thing here, but but you know, he might do that one simple basic thing
00:48:49
that is so obvious that has to be done. Meanwhile, leaving the rest of the Nazi porn bar to thrive. So,
00:48:55
>> yeah. Audie, thoughts? Uh, I'm curious about the people who, you know, like the
00:49:02
first lady or or Ted Cruz who were so touting the take it down act, you know, which was supposed to um allow people a
00:49:11
chance to take down non-consensual images, sexualized images, and Marcia Blackmer.
00:49:18
>> Marcia Black. Yeah. Again, it's one of those moments where you're like, do do
00:49:21
you actually care about this or do you not care about this? The other thing I think about is there's this weird
00:49:26
collision course between the very muddied aspect of AI and that culture which says onward no matter what and a
00:49:35
pretty broad-based not quite a moral panic yet but very much something brewing among parents and in school
00:49:42
systems where they're like ban phones and we're Australia we're saying kids
00:49:47
can't even be on there. We're on a collision course and sometimes it feels
00:49:51
like the industry their plan is just to outra us. Build all the data centers. You can make this thing your make your
00:49:58
born bot quickly. Just do it all while Trump is okay with it. >> Um and and then people can't really stop
00:50:04
you. >> Yeah. That is policy for everything by the way. >> Yeah. And Amazon and taxes. Uh
00:50:09
>> but it's not 1995. Nobody is looking at the industry and being like well they do
00:50:14
have our interests at heart and they might cure cancer. No one is saying that. Everybody is just like, I want to
00:50:20
throw my phone out the window. I hate this. I'm not on socials anymore. I'm a
00:50:24
teen in a lite club. Like the backlash is real and I'm very curious about going
00:50:30
forward if that turns into a political action so to speak. Is there a candidate who represents that?
00:50:35
>> I will speak to that. I think the CS Sam stuff is going to kill them. They're
00:50:39
going to there this is not this is not a this is where it stops. And you've noticed that that Google settled with
00:50:45
the parents of Unchhater AI. Uh I don't know what the settlement is and I did
00:50:50
interview uh that mother and I've interviewed I'm I'm >> I'm I've been interviewing a lot of
00:50:56
these parents because it's a big issue since 2023. I've been doing it. Yeah.
00:51:00
And but at a certain point it won't be settlements, right? It'll be you know
00:51:03
what, maybe we're going to have this conversation with the public in public.
00:51:08
>> I'm not sure why she >> No, I'm not. This is in no way have
00:51:11
decision parents. But I'm saying this is how movements start. I >> I think the reason Google settled is
00:51:17
because they are not protected under section 230 on this one. And their arguments were not ultimately if this
00:51:24
stuff gets out. It's very ugly for them. And I wish one of the parents would just
00:51:28
say, you know what, I'm going to just take you to court. It's just expensive
00:51:32
for them. It's exhausting. Their child has committed suicide. Um, but the same
00:51:36
thing with these imagery that it does I think there there is a group of people that will not settle and they will try
00:51:43
everything to settle because so much of this stuff is so heinous and also what you once you what what I had is one of
00:51:50
the parents read the dialogue and when any parent hears it you're like put those people in jail and so to me
00:51:57
they're headed for a per walk is what I feel like it's they're in this in this
00:52:01
issue and it's well beyond what Australia is doing but they're going to get a backlash like you've absolutely
00:52:06
never seen. >> Yeah. So, where does that affect at one point Elon Musk? You know what I mean?
00:52:11
Like that's what I'm curious about is like >> I don't think he is like
00:52:14
>> do you think it's because it just becomes the gutter? Like this is the red
00:52:18
light district of the internet. He runs it and >> and because a lot of you know if you've
00:52:23
noticed the the internet is becoming less and less useful. I think people using it the AI slob they're it's really
00:52:30
becoming less and less useful. And so the promise was this would be more useful and a lot of AI absolutely is. I
00:52:36
just think there's no business in child porn. There's no business in from now
00:52:41
until 200 years from now. >> Why why aren't this should be an issue for federal regulation, right? Regular
00:52:47
regulators. But you'll never get the Trump administration to do the right thing. They they preferred to do the
00:52:53
wrong thing >> purposefully to, you know, own the libs, so to speak. >> But is it just the Trump administration?
00:52:59
I mean, Cara, I feel like you and I have talked so many times about 230 and how lawmakers are just very reluctant to
00:53:05
step on the walked away industry. >> Yeah, I talked to it from two I'm like,
00:53:09
let's leave 230 aside because that's a complex much more complex thing when
00:53:12
this h when the when I started interviewing these parents back in 2024. Um, I called 10 legislators. I'm like,
00:53:19
can you please [ __ ] listen to this and do something about it? And they're like, uh, I hadn't heard of it. Like,
00:53:24
and I was like, get on it. Like, get the [ __ ] on this. Like, I can't do anything.
00:53:28
And I think, you know, and then unfortunately the people that get on it are are you sort of have have um you
00:53:34
know, they they're trying to kill a fly with a with an anvil, right? Like there's there's a way to do this. This
00:53:39
is illegal. There are already laws in place about these things. >> Yeah. But they don't really understand
00:53:43
the technology. >> I would prosecute XAI. That's I would just like time to pro if there was a
00:53:48
very ambitious prosecutor out there. I don't care if it is conservative or >> you're gonna prosecute the 700 billion
00:53:55
dollar man. >> Yes. Yes. for for child >> the Trump administration. >> No, I I would do a state. I do one of
00:54:02
the one of the big states, you know, just like in order to have people talking about it, right? Because he's
00:54:07
the one I would go for because he's the biggest and the most villainous. >> He's the most villainous. Anyway, we'll
00:54:12
see what happens here. But let me just say I'm going to I I look, it's mostly
00:54:16
Elon Musk's fault because he doesn't give a [ __ ] Um obviously he brought
00:54:19
back Andrew Tate and others who are just heinous creatures. Um but ultimately Sundar Pachai and Tim Cook, you're
00:54:26
soiling yourself in public by letting this continue. You're supposed to >> When you say by letting you mean not
00:54:32
speaking out, not coming up with counter. >> They took down took down a lot of that n
00:54:37
that that January 6 stuff pretty quickly when it looked when I did that one interview with the guy from whatever
00:54:42
that site that was used for planning. Um they they've acted before on the app
00:54:47
store, but this is child porn and you own this both of you. I'm sorry. Anyway,
00:54:53
uh they they're in a position to stop it, like for at least speak out against
00:54:56
it or temporarily stop it and get him to do something about it. Anyway, uh one more quick break. We'll be back for
00:55:03
predictions. Okay, Audi and Bill, uh let's hear some predictions. I will go last.
00:55:09
>> You will go? >> I shall go last. Who wants to go first? That's not fair.
00:55:13
>> Okay, I'll go I'll go first. I I have two predictions. Cara, one is that I I
00:55:20
do think uh AI valuations are going to return to Earth in 2026, the latter half of 2026. Uh not that AI uh isn't a
00:55:30
valuable tool like the internet is a valuable tool, but just like with internet 1.0, you know, you slap, you
00:55:38
know, com at the end of you know, uh a company going public and it's suddenly
00:55:42
everybody falls over themselves to invest. That's where we are now with AI. It's ridiculous and uh it will come down
00:55:49
to earth and a lot of people will lose a lot of money which is always I think uh
00:55:54
justice to some extent. Not that AI won't be incredibly valuable tool as it already proves is proving to be and will
00:56:01
become more so in the future. And the uh second prediction is uh one of my favorites which is that Hakee Jeff will
00:56:08
be a year from now the speaker of the house >> if not sooner. Yeah, more and more
00:56:13
people are talking like that. Frankly, it's sooner the better as far as I'm
00:56:17
concerned. >> All right, Audie. Well, >> well, just to give you a sense of how
00:56:21
it's going. So, my staff made this at the end of the year meme of me. These are these are mouse pads, which they
00:56:27
come in bulk. So, if anyone wants to buy one, >> that is fine. Like >> our merch. Um, and a likeness of me that
00:56:36
was startlingly accurate. Uh, cuz every day there's been something. I would say
00:56:41
that uh this is maybe more a wish. I I predict there will be a movement of human verified social media apps that
00:56:51
someone is going to find a way to tap into the market of people who want to avoid AI uh slop and imagery. And I was
00:57:00
thinking of this when I saw Adam Miseri of Instagram do this big carousel little
00:57:04
essay where he was basically saying like Instagram as we know it is going to be pretty much dead under this scenario and
00:57:10
here are the things you need to think about. And the first thing I thought is there's going to be someone who makes an
00:57:15
app that somehow is human verifiable and that people are really going to want that.
00:57:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. Or else get off. I mean there's a trend among young people of
00:57:25
getting off completely >> because as you said if it's not useful >> Yeah. then you just you can't find your
00:57:31
way to it in the day. Tik Tok is useful for people right now because it's TV to
00:57:35
them. They are being entertained by this thing on a loop. But if they're no longer entertained because what they're
00:57:40
seeing is uh an algorithm owned by, you know, uh the government's friends or
00:57:47
just AI slop and by slop I mean everything that is just generated for generating sake. Why? Fortunately, the
00:57:57
head the head of Roku, who's a really smart guy, Anthony Wood, um, founder and
00:58:02
CEO, did say that he thought there was going to be an AI movie hit, AI generated movie hit. He's always talked
00:58:08
about the back end, and I think he's completely right. Um, when I interviewed
00:58:12
the head of runway, same thing. There's a lot of back-end efficiencies about to
00:58:16
be imposed upon Hollywood and that will be helpful for their business. Um, but uh, but make the move when it moves into
00:58:24
content, it's a really different thing. And one of the things the runway CEO
00:58:27
suggested is that instead of labeling AI, we label real. >> Yes. >> Because it's smaller.
00:58:33
>> Very much so. >> So this is like >> that's that's my prediction as well. So
00:58:36
you're telling me the wind is at my back. Wind is at your back. I know nothing about business, but I'm ready.
00:58:42
>> All right. I will I will do this. I think time is running out for Trump and
00:58:46
the desperate there. Listen, he's very active and vibrant like an old man in a
00:58:50
my mom's in a in a senior facility. There's always one guy who's just loud
00:58:54
and fast and moving around. And listen, that's where we are with this guy. And I
00:58:58
think he's he's much sicker than people realize. >> Oh, this is a health prediction. I
00:59:02
thought this was a political. He's not going to get all this stuff done. Like
00:59:05
he's got there's too much stuff happening and not enough lackis. I know it sounds crazy, but even the lackey are
00:59:13
probably lacking at this point. And so when when I saw that Susie Wilds interview, I'm like, the rats, they
00:59:19
getting ready. Um I as I told Scott, I've I've meeting with Trump people a
00:59:23
lot and they all are asking for pardons. They're all like getting ready for the
00:59:28
inevitable, >> right? They're getting ready for >> ready for those
00:59:32
>> for them. And so >> that's different from saying there's no
00:59:35
after cuz he plans to stay. Like I hear you making a prediction that's different.
00:59:39
>> I'm going to as Scott says, biology is undefeated. Um and nobody, you know, I'm
00:59:45
not sure who's less charming, Don Jr. or JD Vance, but they as I as I said about
00:59:50
Vance, he's the cyber truck of politicians. Um, but one of the um It's true.
00:59:55
>> It took me a be You're like, "Of course." Yes. Correct. >> Yes. Uh but that's why I talk about the
01:00:02
ballroom. I I think it is there's also some legal stuff happening to slow it
01:00:06
down quite a bit. It's everything that gets slowed down is a problem. Whether
01:00:10
it's the Paramount deal, whether it's the ballroom, and I think, by the way,
01:00:14
FYI, they do need a ballroom at the White House, having covered it. There's nowhere to there, as odd as it sounds,
01:00:19
>> it's always a bunch of tents. >> It's a bunch of tents, and there's small
01:00:22
rooms. They really are people, and the offices are small. It's really quite fun
01:00:27
to go there, but at the same time, you're like, what a shitty office this is. Um, and so there needs to be some
01:00:33
renovation. Just the way it was done was, of course, awful, but I don't think
01:00:38
you're going to get the huge ballroom. I don't think he's going to get what he
01:00:40
wants and I think the gold leaf is going to come down and that and they will have
01:00:45
a they will have a decent better side to it and that's okay. Um but but the big
01:00:52
one isn't going to happen. I'm I'm sorry to say he's not going to get his a Trump
01:00:57
uh triumph triumphal arch either. So >> is he going to get his face on Mount
01:01:03
Rushmore or on the coins? >> I don't care. Do you care? >> The coins might happen.
01:01:07
>> He can have the coins. I don't care. Like at a certain point you're like,
01:01:09
"Yeah, give him a coin. Why not?" Like I >> none of us mentioned the 250 year
01:01:15
anniversary. I mean, we are about to see uh >> I think propaganda is actually the the
01:01:21
safest word to use definitionally here, Car. I'll defer to you because that's
01:01:26
your area of expertise. Um because it's going to be >> the the country's birthday in his frame.
01:01:35
>> That's right. just completely in the context of him >> which is well done stakes and
01:01:41
>> you know it's a USC octagon it's whatever I mean just uh something
01:01:46
>> yeah something that could be very sort of academic and a little sleepy and
01:01:51
history nerd in another year is going to be something else >> yeah I just think I don't care ahead go
01:01:57
for it old man it's your last harrah go for it >> I don't give I'm not going to get mad
01:02:02
about those things anyway so we'll see about that but it's time Tik Tok as they
01:02:06
say. Anyway, I really appreciate it. But let me just read this. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about
01:02:11
business if you don't agree with me or Bill or Audi or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to send a
01:02:16
question for the show or comment or call 8551 pivot. Again, that is the show. Thank you so much. Audi and Bill came on
01:02:25
at the last minute and I really appreciate it. It was incredibly substantive and really helpful for
01:02:30
people because right now the news >> total honor to meet you this way. This
01:02:33
is so cool. Thank you. You had a great job together, too. You had a nice rapport, the two of you. Anyway, uh we
01:02:40
And the thing is the last show was uh Brooke Hammerling, uh Stephanie Rule and Don Lemon, and all they talked about was
01:02:46
speaking of gay porn, uh the heated rivalry, so this was a little different. >> All right. Well, ask me back to this
01:02:52
show. I don't want to have to like harm Scott every time I want to come back.
01:02:55
>> Don't you worry. Absolutely. Both of you have been valued contributors to a lot
01:02:59
of my podcast, and I really appreciate it. So, please watch, listen to, and read all the amazing work they're doing
01:03:04
at CNN and Puck. Uh, Audi has the morning show. Uh, Bill has a must must readad column that is so helpful to me in
01:03:13
understanding these things. Um, anyway, thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our
01:03:19
YouTube channel, which is doing rather well, I have to say. Uh, we'll be back
01:03:23
next week and I will read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie
01:03:29
Anderdot engineered this episode. Manolo Moreno edited this video. Nishhat Curwa
01:03:34
is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks
01:03:40
for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
01:03:44
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and
01:03:50
business. Scott, come home.