Search Captions & Ask AI

Scale, Skill and Fund Returns

May 14, 2015 / 13:23

This episode discusses mutual fund performance, focusing on the impact of scale and skill in active management. Key topics include decreasing returns to scale at both the fund and industry levels, the difference between active and passive funds, and the implications of mutual fund growth on performance.

The guests present research findings indicating strong evidence of decreasing returns at the industry level, suggesting that as the mutual fund industry grows, individual fund performance diminishes. They explain that larger funds face challenges in executing trades without affecting stock prices, impacting overall returns.

They also introduce a new way to measure skill, which shows that while skill among fund managers has increased over the past 30 years, performance has not improved correspondingly due to industry growth and competition.

The discussion highlights that younger funds tend to outperform older funds, primarily due to better education and technological advancements. However, overall, active funds still underperform compared to passive index funds.

In conclusion, the episode emphasizes the importance of considering industry size when evaluating mutual fund performance and suggests that investors may benefit from focusing on newer active funds.

TL;DR

Mutual fund performance is more affected by industry scale than individual fund size, with younger funds outperforming older ones.

Episode

13:23
00:00:05
our paper is about scale and skill and
00:00:07
active management we started with a
00:00:09
simple idea which is that a mutual
00:00:12
fund's performance depends not just on
00:00:14
skill but also potentially on scale so
00:00:18
in order for us to say anything about
00:00:19
scale we need to make sure we first
00:00:21
understand scale so the goal of this
00:00:24
project is is to understand the nature
00:00:26
of returns to scale an active mutual
00:00:29
fund management
00:00:30
we test two different ideas the first is
00:00:33
decreasing returns to scale at the fund
00:00:35
level there the idea is as a fund gets
00:00:38
larger that causes the fund's
00:00:41
performance to to drop for example
00:00:43
because larger funds make larger trades
00:00:46
that push prices more and that hurts
00:00:49
performance that's the first idea the
00:00:51
second idea is decreasing returns to
00:00:53
scale at the industry level the idea
00:00:56
here is as the overall mutual fund
00:00:58
industry gets larger that makes all
00:01:00
funds performance decrease and here the
00:01:03
logic is as there are more mutual fund
00:01:06
dollars out there competing and chasing
00:01:08
after mispriced stocks that makes prices
00:01:11
move and it makes harder for any mutual
00:01:13
fund to find a a good trading
00:01:16
opportunity our main result is strong
00:01:18
evidence of decreasing returns at the
00:01:21
industry level in contrast we find mixed
00:01:24
evidence of decreasing returns at the
00:01:26
fund level so more simply we find that
00:01:29
it's the size of the mutual fund
00:01:30
industry that's very important for
00:01:32
performance the size of an individual
00:01:35
fund is less important these results
00:01:38
that we're finding on scale have some
00:01:40
interesting implications for how we
00:01:42
think about skill we offer a new way of
00:01:45
measuring skill that adjusts for scale
00:01:48
with this measure we show for example
00:01:50
that uh skill has been trending upwards
00:01:52
uh in the mutual fund industry over the
00:01:54
last 30
00:01:58
years well an active mutual fund is U
00:02:03
distinguished from a passive mutual fund
00:02:05
in the sense that a passive mutual fund
00:02:07
would just buy a basket of stocks that
00:02:10
represent an overall investment in the
00:02:12
stock market or segment of the stock
00:02:14
market what we typically call an index
00:02:16
fund uh an active fund deviates from
00:02:19
that from that portfolio by
00:02:22
overweighting stocks that it believes
00:02:24
are underpriced and offer Superior
00:02:27
returns and uh down weights or sells off
00:02:30
the stocks that it believes are
00:02:31
overpriced or or offer worse returns uh
00:02:35
so an active fund will uh trade more
00:02:38
than uh a passive fund and its return
00:02:41
will have what we call tracking error
00:02:44
relative to the passive uh uh Benchmark
00:02:47
against which it's
00:02:52
judged well the Surge and popularity of
00:02:54
active mutual funds really coincides
00:02:56
with the surge in mutual funds overall
00:02:59
in in fact uh index funds or passive
00:03:02
funds have actually had a somewhat
00:03:04
higher rate of growth than active mutual
00:03:06
funds but the overall mutual fund
00:03:08
industry has grown so much uh over the
00:03:11
decades that active funds too have
00:03:14
become uh much bigger in the sense that
00:03:16
they control a much bigger segment of
00:03:19
the uh US Stock
00:03:21
Market uh we believe that uh some the
00:03:25
overall trend in mutual fund growth just
00:03:27
coincides in general with the uh
00:03:31
increasingly smaller fraction of the US
00:03:33
Equity Market that's owned directly by
00:03:36
individuals uh the growth in retirement
00:03:38
plans such as uh you know defined
00:03:41
contribution of 401K plans is is is one
00:03:44
uh Big Driver of that growth and there
00:03:46
other institutional factors that have
00:03:48
been identified as leading to this surge
00:03:51
in in mutual fund uh
00:03:57
size as there more Mutual fund dollars
00:04:01
out there uh competing with each other
00:04:03
and looking for mispriced
00:04:06
stocks then there's more trading on
00:04:08
those ideas that pushes prices and
00:04:11
that's going to make it harder for any
00:04:12
mutual fund to find a mispriced stock so
00:04:15
the analogy we like to use is that if
00:04:18
there are more people fishing on the
00:04:19
same Pond well that's going to make it
00:04:21
harder for any individual person to
00:04:24
catch fish on that
00:04:28
pond well as Luke mentioned earlier in
00:04:31
order to understand skill we have to
00:04:33
understand what the role of scale or
00:04:34
size of of industry in the fund is in in
00:04:37
generating performance so we Define
00:04:40
skill as the ability of a manager to
00:04:43
perform relative to a benchmark uh
00:04:46
abstracting from the effects of Industry
00:04:48
size and his own fund size U so one way
00:04:52
of thinking about that is we try to ask
00:04:54
uh how much outperformance would this
00:04:57
manager have if he were the only only
00:04:59
one operating in the stock market and
00:05:01
didn't have competition from all the
00:05:04
other mutual funds and in fact didn't
00:05:06
have to worry about how big his own fund
00:05:08
got in some sense it's his ability to
00:05:10
generate Returns on the first dollar
00:05:12
you'd invest with that with that fund
00:05:18
manager well we don't really know for
00:05:21
sure but uh we do know that uh certainly
00:05:25
the education of uh those entering the
00:05:28
financial services industry has
00:05:29
increased over time uh so the training
00:05:32
has gone up um also uh over time new
00:05:36
strategies get discovered uh we have uh
00:05:39
for example quantitative approaches to
00:05:42
Investment Management that exploit
00:05:44
technology and Computing capabilities uh
00:05:47
to much greater degrees than we could
00:05:49
decades ago uh so we believe things like
00:05:52
training and
00:05:53
Technology uh lead to uh higher degrees
00:05:57
of skill as well as uh the usual ual
00:05:59
sort of learning on the job effects uh
00:06:03
uh we believe that skill is uh increased
00:06:06
for those reasons and possibly others we
00:06:08
don't really know why for sure we show
00:06:10
that skill has gone up over the last 30
00:06:12
Years yet performance has not how is
00:06:15
that possible our explanation combines
00:06:18
two elements uh the first is the mutual
00:06:21
fund industry has been growing steadily
00:06:22
over the last 30 years the second
00:06:25
element is decreasing returns to scale
00:06:27
at the industry level and in other words
00:06:30
funds are becoming more skilled but the
00:06:32
industry is also growing and those two
00:06:35
effects tend to offset each other in
00:06:36
other words yes fund managers are more
00:06:39
skilled today but they have to be more
00:06:41
skilled just to uh keep up with the rest
00:06:43
of the
00:06:47
pack so as a fund gets larger it starts
00:06:51
to make larger trades those larger
00:06:53
trades push prices more against the fund
00:06:56
which hurts the fund's profits yeah for
00:06:59
examp example if you have a fund that uh
00:07:01
thinks a given stock is underpriced and
00:07:04
wants to buy 5,000 shares of that stock
00:07:07
uh it has to go and uh find someone
00:07:10
willing to sell that stock in the market
00:07:11
if if another fund identifies a stock is
00:07:14
under pric and wants to buy 50,000
00:07:15
shares of that stock it's got to find
00:07:18
more potential sellers of that stock to
00:07:21
do so it either has to offer a bigger
00:07:23
concession willing to pay more for that
00:07:25
stock to get it quickly or it has to try
00:07:28
to parcel out it's its purchases over
00:07:31
time and take longer and perhaps thereby
00:07:34
miss out on some of the underpricing
00:07:36
that would get corrected in the
00:07:41
meantime I think we were surprised uh
00:07:45
because some some of the uh the leading
00:07:48
uh theory about mutual funds these days
00:07:50
assigns a a central role to the notion
00:07:53
that as a given fund gets bigger uh it
00:07:56
should become become harder for it to
00:07:57
perform um so I think we were somewhat
00:08:00
surprised that even though our estimates
00:08:02
uh pointed in the direction we were not
00:08:04
able to get strong statistical Precision
00:08:08
associated with those estimates uh so I
00:08:10
think that was one aspect of our study
00:08:12
we found somewhat
00:08:14
surprising the logic for for why a fund
00:08:17
Size Matters is compelling but there is
00:08:20
a a different logic pointing in the
00:08:22
other direction for example imagine two
00:08:25
mutual funds that follow exactly the
00:08:27
same strategy they make the same trades
00:08:30
at the same times well you can see that
00:08:33
their individual sizes may not matter
00:08:36
instead what's going to matter is their
00:08:37
combined
00:08:42
size well again here's one of these
00:08:44
findings we don't have a a a definitive
00:08:46
answer for um but one one potential
00:08:50
reason is that uh younger funds could
00:08:53
also come with younger managers on
00:08:55
average uh so we get back to this issue
00:08:58
of uh increases in skill and and uh sort
00:09:01
of technological prowess perhaps being
00:09:04
associated uh with with age um the other
00:09:08
thing is the younger funds could be
00:09:09
exploiting newer strategies that the
00:09:11
market has not sort of sort of caught on
00:09:14
to and exploited to as significant a
00:09:16
degree again this is one of those things
00:09:18
like uh um Rising skill we don't we
00:09:22
can't really say for sure why it's
00:09:24
happened but but uh we think it's not
00:09:26
implausible that uh that these factors
00:09:28
could contribute to Superior performance
00:09:31
for younger funds we find that there's
00:09:33
also a second way in which fund age
00:09:35
matters and uh that's a relation over
00:09:39
time between performance and age we find
00:09:41
that a fund's performance typically
00:09:43
deteriorates as the fund ages uh if you
00:09:47
take all these results together they're
00:09:49
consistent with a simple story the story
00:09:51
is that new funds entering the industry
00:09:54
have more skill than the existing funds
00:09:57
possibly because of better education or
00:09:59
better grasp on technology because of
00:10:01
this Superior skill the young funds
00:10:03
outperform initially they outperform
00:10:06
their benchmarks and they also
00:10:07
outperformed the older funds but
00:10:10
performance tends to deteriorate as a
00:10:12
fund ages and the reason is that as a
00:10:15
fund ages the mutual fund industry is
00:10:17
getting larger and larger and that hurts
00:10:19
everyone's
00:10:23
performance investors should prefer
00:10:25
newer active funds over older active FS
00:10:29
funds uh each month we form a portfolio
00:10:33
uh that contains all of the youngest
00:10:34
funds say funds that are of age between
00:10:37
Zer and three years we also form a
00:10:39
portfolio of funds that are 10 years old
00:10:41
and older and we find that the portfolio
00:10:44
of very young funds significantly
00:10:46
outperforms the portfolio of of older
00:10:53
funds well here's sort of the bad news
00:10:55
of this of this uh finding is that even
00:10:57
though we find younger funds
00:10:59
significantly outperform older funds in
00:11:01
the active fund Universe uh active funds
00:11:04
in general be they young or old uh on
00:11:08
average have
00:11:09
underperformed uh passive index funds so
00:11:14
uh our message would be to someone who
00:11:16
has decided to invest at least part of
00:11:19
their money in active funds uh younger
00:11:21
funds do seem to on average offer spr
00:11:23
performance but uh the overall averages
00:11:26
do favor index funds uh
00:11:29
and potentially because of this finding
00:11:32
that the uh industry Size Matters so uh
00:11:36
you know as long as the industry is as
00:11:38
big as it is the active fund industry is
00:11:40
as big as it is uh index funds may offer
00:11:43
a a better return uh you know were that
00:11:46
industry to be smaller were it to shrink
00:11:48
and indeed index funds are growing more
00:11:51
rapidly uh there could come a time when
00:11:54
active funds uh are able to keep Pace uh
00:11:58
and perhaps even offer some prep
00:11:59
performance but uh the evidence for now
00:12:02
anyway would seem to be that uh index
00:12:05
funds uh uh offer offer Superior average
00:12:10
returns based on historical
00:12:15
evidence well we are following up
00:12:17
actually in fact we have a a uh a recent
00:12:19
working paper that also explores the
00:12:22
role of fund size in a somewhat
00:12:24
different way we're looking at the uh
00:12:26
the turnover of of funds how how much
00:12:29
they trade and to what extent that
00:12:31
turnover seems to be related to
00:12:33
Performance do funds earn more after
00:12:36
they after they trade more does a given
00:12:38
fund when it trades more heavily produce
00:12:40
Superior returns as a result and uh
00:12:43
there we do find that that fund size
00:12:45
does seem to play a role in particular
00:12:47
small funds do seem to exhibit a
00:12:49
stronger relation between their turnover
00:12:51
and their performance suggesting they
00:12:53
can more readily exploit these time
00:12:56
varying opportunities to identify Mis
00:12:58
pric
00:13:21
see

Episode Highlights

  • The Importance of Scale
    The size of the mutual fund industry significantly impacts performance, more than individual fund size.
    “It's the size of the mutual fund industry that's very important for performance.”
    @ 01m 30s
    May 14, 2015
  • Younger Funds Outperform
    Younger active funds tend to outperform older funds, but overall they still lag behind index funds.
    “Younger funds do seem to outperform older funds in the active fund universe.”
    @ 11m 21s
    May 14, 2015

Episode Quotes

  • It's the size of the mutual fund industry that's very important for performance.
    Scale, Skill and Fund Returns
  • If there are more people fishing on the same pond, it's harder to catch fish.
    Scale, Skill and Fund Returns
  • Younger funds do seem to outperform older funds in the active fund universe.
    Scale, Skill and Fund Returns

Key Moments

  • Fishing Analogy04:18
  • Younger Funds Shine11:21

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

Related Episodes

Untangling Skill and Luck in Business
March 06, 2013
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
21:21
Untangling Skill and Luck in Business
Hedge Fund Clamp-down? Research Says Investors Can Watch Out for Themselves
July 08, 2009
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
06:59
Hedge Fund Clamp-down? Research Says Investors Can Watch Out for Themselves
"Gut Feel" and Early-stage Investors
January 20, 2017
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
12:57
"Gut Feel" and Early-stage Investors
Maneet Ahuja on Hedge Funds and the 'Alpha Masters'
December 17, 2012
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
29:54
Maneet Ahuja on Hedge Funds and the 'Alpha Masters'
Contracts with Benefits
July 16, 2018
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
23:16
Contracts with Benefits
Impact Investing: Where it's Been, and Where its Going
January 20, 2016
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
20:51
Impact Investing: Where it's Been, and Where its Going
Is the Rush to Safety Making Corporate Bonds Unsafe?
September 08, 2015
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
08:24
Is the Rush to Safety Making Corporate Bonds Unsafe?
Valuing the Customer
January 26, 2016
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
23:11
Valuing the Customer
Baseball Analytics, NFL Parity, and College Football Playoff Odds
November 16, 2025
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
01:01:01
Baseball Analytics, NFL Parity, and College Football Playoff Odds
How Impact Investing Can Change the World
March 22, 2016
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
17:55
How Impact Investing Can Change the World
Management by the Numbers
March 21, 2014
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
20:11
Management by the Numbers
Wharton Professor Jeremy Siegel on "Stocks for the Long Run" Book, Plus Current Market Conditions
February 16, 2023
Captions not detected. You can watch the video, but not search it. If you think this is an error, contact support.
30:14
Wharton Professor Jeremy Siegel on "Stocks for the Long Run" Book, Plus Current Market Conditions