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I think there's two types of hoarding
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that are interesting in today's day and
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age first the physical hoarding but also
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the digital hoarding we have right think
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about how many photos we have or files
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we might have stored on Dropbox we're
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worried we're going to need them someday
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so we keep them around and so the
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storage we need to have gets larger and
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larger even though it's not physical
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storage welcome to the ripple effect the
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podcast that takes you on a journey
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through the minds of work faculty I'm
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your host Dan Looney and in each episode
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we'll be diving deep into the
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inspiration find the groundbreaking
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research that whon professors have
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conducted and exploring how their
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findings resonate with the world today
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well there are many things that we buy
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or we acquire that we love and hold on
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to for a long time even maybe after
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their usefulness has passed but then
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there are also instances where people
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will acquire something and they don't
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really use it yet for some reason they
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still hang on to it so we wanted to find
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out why that is the case Jonah Berger
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marketing professor at the Wharton
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School has done research into this and
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he joins us right now to talk about it
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Jonah interesting topic that that you've
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looked into what was it that kind of
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peak your interest in the first place
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you know I think we've all had this
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personal experience where we have
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something lying around our house that we
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don't use and in some cases it makes a
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lot of sense maybe it's uh something
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someone gave us that we wish we had a
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use for but we don't right um uh you
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know we thought we would play guitar
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someone nicely gave us a guitar and we
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don't end up using it or maybe it's a
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family heirloom right maybe it's our
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grandmother's China that we personally
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don't love but we don't have as fancy
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occasions or it reminds us of her so we
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keep around and those things make a
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sense but there's a third class of
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things that makes a little bit less
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sense maybe it's a a bottle of wine that
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wasn't that special to begin with maybe
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it's um an item that we got that wasn't
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that important us at the beginning but
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somehow we end up holding on to it and
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and never using it the the wine wasn't
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that special at the beginning but now it
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feels really special and we don't drink
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it or the the shirt we were saving it
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for that special occasion and it never
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really arose and now we never end up
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wearing it and so we wondered why might
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that be and could we understand uh
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consumer Behavior more broadly by
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understanding this particular situation
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so take us through how you actually did
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that because I I'd find that interesting
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just how you go about that process yeah
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you know I think there's often uh
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products uh that we buy that aren't that
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special to start with maybe it's a
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bottle of wine it's a kind of normal
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bottle of of wine or maybe it's a a
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shirt or a dress that's maybe a little
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nicer than what we would normally buy
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but not that that nice and these things
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start off as rather normal right rather
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sort of normal ordinary possessions but
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if an occasion comes around where we
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don't end up using it maybe because we
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felt it wasn't a perfectly good fit or
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maybe we just wanted to save it for
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something else what's interesting is now
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that thing that didn't start so special
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becomes a little bit more special we go
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well hold on if I didn't use it for that
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last occasion maybe it's worth saving
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for something a little bit better and so
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the next time comes around right we have
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an opportunity to use it but then we
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might be likely to save it again and
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suddenly we go through this specialness
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spiral where something that's started
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rather ordinary becomes a little bit
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more extraordinary we end up saving it
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for special occasions and not using it
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in ordinary ones and something that
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wasn't that special to begin with
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becomes a lot more special than we
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intended so this isn't just a kind of a
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normal emotional attachment to something
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is
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it you know certain things we start with
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an emotional attachment towards right so
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our grandmother's China might be
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something where we have a strong
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emotional attachment at the beginning
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and and that doesn't change what I think
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is neat here is how the items change
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through our process of non-consumption
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right it didn't start out that special
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yet by not using it and not using it and
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not using it and and not just ignoring
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it but almost consciously not using it
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right deciding is this the right
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occasion to wear that new pair of shoes
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maybe I'll hold off right I'll tell a
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personal story many years ago I was on
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the academic job market uh and I got a
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suit right for a big job interview as I
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uh as many people do when they're on the
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job market and I thought the suit was
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really special and I loved it and I wore
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it for the academic job market but then
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I didn't wear it soon after because I
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wanted to save it for something and then
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months went by and months went by and
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years went by and I was saving it and
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saving it and eventually this thing went
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out of style right and it wasn't because
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it was super special to begin with OR
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super meaningful to begin with it was
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more that I didn't use it and became
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more special and eventually it became so
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old that I didn't want to use it anymore
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and so I think a lot of times we end up
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with things around our home that didn't
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have meaning at the beginning but get it
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through this process of non-consumption
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how much then is does this to a degree
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explain maybe some of the elements of
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hoarding that we see out there I think
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it's certainly the case um you know it's
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very interesting uh in today's day and
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age the the way we think about hoarding
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you know um my my grandmother was a
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little bit of a hoarder herself and
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would keep things around because she
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thought someone would wear it or someone
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would use it and and in today's day and
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age in some ways we have a little less
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of that right in some ways we have
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digital items and so we have less
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physical hoarding but the same thing
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happens right we get a gift for the
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holidays it's not perfect for us but we
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keep it around we end up putting it in
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the closet it goes to the back of the
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closet things go in front of it and we
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end up not seeing it anymore and soon we
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get something similar we have something
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else that takes its place and so I think
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there's two types of hoarding that are
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interesting in today's day and age first
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the physical hoarding but also the
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digital hoarding we have right think
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about how many photos we have or files
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we might have stored on Dropbox we're
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worried we're going to need them someday
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so we keep them around and so the
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storage we need to have gets larger and
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larger even though it's not physical
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storage and so I'll throw in one for
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myself I mean thinking about all the
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photos that I have collected of my kids
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of them playing soccer or different
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events they've been in and I have
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multiples of each one of them I and I
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could probably go through my phone and
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eliminate probably at least half of the
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photos that I have on there
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but I don't do it and maybe for me part
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of that is an element of time and
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actually taking the time to do that but
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but notice the more things we have
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whether they are physical things or
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digital things the more time it takes to
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call those things and so the more
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daunting the task becomes right if if
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every time or every week or every month
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we went through our photos and you know
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got rid of the ones where we took a
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picture of our pocket or we took two of
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the kids at the soccer game that are
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identical if we called those photos the
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task wouldn't be so difficult because
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then every month we'd only have a month
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to deal with but if it goes month on
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month on month just like we have that
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attic room in our house or apartment
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where we store things that we don't need
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eventually becomes harder and harder to
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find things and harder to harder to call
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it and so we end up having more and more
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stuff so how much is the
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recognition of having these things a
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challenge or maybe people don't have
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enough of a recognition that they're
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actually doing some of these things you
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know I think it's important uh in some
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cases right and and not everyone has
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this problem all the time some some of
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uh the listeners here are probably
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saying what do you mean I get a bottle
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of wine I drink it right away or um you
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know I get a new shirt I wear it at the
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first possible occasion I think we have
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to be careful though once things that
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were not originally special start
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becoming uh overly special if you will
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um and it becomes useful to think about
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strategies to mitigate that R be saying
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hey I'm gonna wear this for New Year's
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or uh I'm gonna wear this for my
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birthday or I'm G to drink this bottle
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of wine the next time we go out to
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dinner setting a specific occasion where
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you decide that usage is appropriate
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helps us use these things and and move
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on on and the same thing can be true in
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our digital world as well in the end do
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you think there are reasons why people
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end up having these attachments and
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maybe don't even realize it you know
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emotional attachment isn't always bad
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right it's nice to have cherished photos
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uh of our family members or you know
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things that our kids made that we keep
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around the house even even though we
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don't necessarily need them it's it's
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nice to have those emotional attachments
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I think the challenge is when you have
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so many of those things that they get in
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the way of of our well-being our ability
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to find the things we do want um our
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ability to sort of overc consume and buy
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things we don't need and so in those
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situations it's important to figure out
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ways to mitigate it and to increase our
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happiness as a result so then if we have
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this as a component of our digital lives
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right now how much then do you think
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this potentially continues on and
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enhances as we move down the road
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because we are more and more connected
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to our digital selves every day whether
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it be our phones our computers I mean
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we're doing this interview on Zoom it's
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just become a massive part of our lives
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and certainly right I mean Technologies
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are tools um and those tools can be very
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helpful those tools can make that things
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easier they can save us time they can
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help us uh work well on vacation and get
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something done if we need to but they
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can also be detrimental right they can
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interrupt Us in ways we might not want
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they can uh lead us to accumulate uh
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digital files that we don't necessarily
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need and so um I think just like our
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offline tools we need to manage our
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online tools as well and I guess also we
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talk a lot about the elements of how
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different they are from generation to
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generation certainly I guess it's going
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to be very much interesting to watch how
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this digital component plays in with
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younger Generations right now certainly
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I mean I think about this a lot when I
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think about a physical office right you
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know you used to go into someone's
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physical office and they had shelves and
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shelves of physical books and now many
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people have gotten rid of those books
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academics used to have journals most
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people don't get physical journals
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anymore and so what is an office space
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for do people's need as large offices
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what do you put in them um how do you
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think about how they represent yourself
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there's a a lot of interesting
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transitions are being made and and
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certainly age plays a role right the the
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younger you are when you've been
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introduced to these Technologies the
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less lik you maybe to have physical
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things around and the more comfortable
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you may be with a a digital only world
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so this sounds like it's it's a little
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bit of a ever evolving type of research
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that you're doing because of all the
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Dynamics at play but what do you think
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are the takeaways at least now from what
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you you you delved into in this topic
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you know I I think we need to think
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about managing our possessions whether
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they are physical or or digital um I
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think it's as we talked about earlier
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it's important to have meaning in our
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lives and it's important to be
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emotionally attached to things in our
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lives um that said sometimes that can
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become overwhelming um ordinary items
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can become perceived Treasures even when
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they're not and we can imbue them with
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so much meaning that we fill our spaces
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with things we're never using and so if
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we find ourselves in in an overly
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cluttered uh living in an overly
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cluttered space whether in our physical
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World our Digital World understanding
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why we may have ended up there and
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figuring out how to manage it becomes
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key Jonah great to talk to you as always
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thanks very much thanks so much for
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having me you got a Jonah burer
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marketing Professor here at the Wharton
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School thank you for listening to the
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ripple effect we hope you found this
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episode informative and engaging don't
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forget to subscribe and leave us a
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review so that we can continue to bring
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you the best Insight from the warden
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School
