00:00:00
from the campus of the University of
00:00:02
Pennsylvania Wharton School this is
00:00:04
marketing matters on Business Radio
00:00:07
hello and welcome you're listening to
00:00:09
marketing matters here on Business Radio
00:00:11
serus XM 132 I'm Barbara kme the Patty
00:00:15
and JH Baker professor of marketing and
00:00:18
today we are live in the studio with our
00:00:21
Spotlight
00:00:23
segment I'm thrilled to welcome Stuart
00:00:26
whitesman Stuart is the founder and
00:00:29
chairman Mar this of Stuart whitesman
00:00:32
shoe company and that Footwear is sold
00:00:35
in more than 75 countries and worn by
00:00:37
numerous celebrities around the world uh
00:00:40
Stewart sold the company to coach in
00:00:42
2015 but he stayed on as shoe designer
00:00:46
he graduated this is the most important
00:00:48
fact about Stuart he graduated from the
00:00:50
Wharton School and he was later honored
00:00:53
by having the design and architecture
00:00:56
school named after him it is known as
00:00:58
the steuart whitesman school of design
00:01:01
and now in his free time Stuart AIDS a
00:01:03
number of philanthropic causes and he
00:01:06
mentors students um who have
00:01:08
entrepreneurial aspirations at the
00:01:10
University of Pennsylvania's Wharton
00:01:12
School but he also goes around the
00:01:14
country and he's been giving talks at
00:01:16
many universities and we're really happy
00:01:18
to have him here back at warten Stuart
00:01:20
thank you so much for joining us in the
00:01:22
studio today well you know I love being
00:01:25
here this is where my touring lecture
00:01:28
circuit began yeah we could talk talk
00:01:30
about that like as I recall what year
00:01:32
was it do you remember it was eight
00:01:33
years ago it was eight and you were
00:01:34
still you hadn't retired yet no I was
00:01:36
running the company still but you know
00:01:38
my my daughter gave me good advice daddy
00:01:41
figure out how to fill up these 15-hour
00:01:44
days when you finally sell this business
00:01:47
and I started with you yeah so I I'll
00:01:50
just recount and then we'll talk about
00:01:52
what's happened since but you came into
00:01:53
my I think it was my consumer Behavior
00:01:55
course and I told my students in advance
00:01:59
that you were coming and anybody who had
00:02:01
your shoes should wear them and we did
00:02:03
have many many people in the audience
00:02:05
who were wearing your shoes and very Pro
00:02:07
we in our it was an undergraduate class
00:02:09
as I recall and I had several
00:02:11
fashionistas who really knew design they
00:02:14
really knew your product and they were
00:02:16
very proud to wear your your shoes and
00:02:18
they came into the class and you told
00:02:21
stories about your career which was very
00:02:24
unusual at the time and I was happy that
00:02:26
you came to do that because you were
00:02:29
unusual in the sense and you and you
00:02:31
emphasize this when you talk to our
00:02:32
students that you were a business person
00:02:35
trained by Wharton so you really knew
00:02:37
business but you were also a design
00:02:39
person and those two functions were
00:02:42
unusual in the world of luxury in the
00:02:44
world of fashion design to have both of
00:02:46
them in one head and operating the
00:02:48
company and you told the students at the
00:02:51
time of many strategic decisions you
00:02:53
made that really were milestones in your
00:02:55
company so just because not everybody
00:02:58
was in that class you want to talk a
00:03:00
little bit about what you said then and
00:03:02
then we'll take it what you're doing now
00:03:04
well it was my first talk um you
00:03:07
summarized it pretty well except you
00:03:09
didn't point out that I signed 13 pair
00:03:12
of shoes that day ran out of inking that
00:03:15
silver tip pen um and what I the the
00:03:18
impression I was trying to make with
00:03:21
these students is that they are going to
00:03:26
struggle a little to figure out what
00:03:28
they really want to do in life
00:03:30
but that struggle is worth it I told
00:03:33
them I hope it makes your heart sing
00:03:36
wherever you end up we say passion do it
00:03:39
your passion but it's you know even even
00:03:41
more than that and uh and a lot of them
00:03:44
paid attention I um I talked about the
00:03:47
business side because as CEO I had to
00:03:50
run the business uh they were certainly
00:03:53
even more interested in the creative
00:03:55
side and how we were going to build a
00:03:57
brand in the fashion world
00:04:00
I made such a a clear point that
00:04:04
regardless of what you think is valuable
00:04:07
in the look of your product or your
00:04:10
service it has to work you have to keep
00:04:13
your promise Everyone's A salesperson so
00:04:16
even if we're not selling a product
00:04:18
we're selling
00:04:19
ourselves and you're telling people this
00:04:21
is what I do who I am what I make if you
00:04:26
don't keep that promise when you
00:04:28
deliver you're going to have to find
00:04:30
another career and that was the most
00:04:32
important point that I think I got out
00:04:36
of Wharton quite honestly because one of
00:04:38
my professors who had been an
00:04:39
entrepreneur I think his name was Long
00:04:41
Street he made that point well we know
00:04:44
about the football coach who said you
00:04:46
can't fool everybody all the time right
00:04:48
um and you just can't so keep your
00:04:51
promise find your Niche make sure you
00:04:53
live up to it and you'll enjoy and be
00:04:56
successful in whatever you do you know
00:04:58
that's a very interesting thing
00:05:00
um especially for somebody as successful
00:05:02
as you are coming back to the students
00:05:04
and telling them have values live by
00:05:07
your values live by your ethics things
00:05:09
like that you know don't cut corners on
00:05:11
that don't cut corners on those kinds of
00:05:13
things it'll come back to haunt you I
00:05:15
think the students did 100% respect that
00:05:19
message that you made I I can also tell
00:05:21
you and this is from the hindsight I
00:05:23
didn't prepare this so it's just Salient
00:05:25
what I remember from that talk um some
00:05:28
of the points you made that stay with me
00:05:30
one of them which I thought was pretty
00:05:32
interesting was that you opened a
00:05:34
factory in Spain and at the time a lot
00:05:37
of shoes were being made in Italy um and
00:05:40
you talked a lot about that decision and
00:05:43
I think you were making the point which
00:05:46
came across that it was a one of your
00:05:48
smarter decisions you made a lot of
00:05:50
smart decisions but that was a
00:05:51
particularly smart decision and can you
00:05:54
go back and refresh what why that was
00:05:56
such an important strategic decision
00:05:58
well being 40 years ago ago really
00:06:00
haven't thought about why I did it so
00:06:02
any time recently but it was a risk I
00:06:05
took because I was not going to a
00:06:08
country where I could show off Prestige
00:06:11
um Italy would have given me that but I
00:06:14
saw opportunities there in many many
00:06:18
ways less competition for workers very
00:06:22
very few high-grade manufacturers to
00:06:24
compete with and the sourcing of your
00:06:27
product is as important as what you end
00:06:29
up creating so that was a key risk I
00:06:32
took and it paid off I also saw a real
00:06:36
discipline in that Society um it's still
00:06:40
there and I guess it was founded because
00:06:43
they lived 30 40 years under Franco and
00:06:46
it was a disciplined Society he made
00:06:49
sure that those who weren't were no
00:06:51
longer around and when he finally died
00:06:54
and the King encouraged Parliament to
00:06:56
move into the European community that
00:06:58
same discipline existed we had no
00:07:01
strikes in 46 years not one strike in
00:07:04
any of our factories we always reached
00:07:07
the right conclusions maybe that's why
00:07:09
but also they they didn't see a
00:07:12
confrontation between owner and worker
00:07:15
we work together U paid off years to
00:07:18
come the key to the city that we were in
00:07:22
Alicante given to me not voted on by the
00:07:26
administration but by the workers in the
00:07:28
town I was in in you know if you if you
00:07:33
take a risk and the reward is greater
00:07:36
than the possible cost I encourage
00:07:39
people to do it because it worked for me
00:07:41
in that regard and that's why I went to
00:07:43
Spain and I think it gave you a
00:07:45
differentiation for your product uh and
00:07:48
and advantages you know that you could
00:07:50
translate so I I personally remember
00:07:52
that as a very interesting decision
00:07:54
because like you said most of the most
00:07:56
of the products were being made in Italy
00:07:57
at that time the other decision and I
00:08:00
don't know I don't know if this was a
00:08:02
decision or just a commitment to your
00:08:04
values but another thing that I own many
00:08:06
of your shoes so I know this is true um
00:08:10
is that they're comfortable they're
00:08:11
really they're not only beautiful but
00:08:13
they're functional and I cannot say that
00:08:16
about all of my other pairs of shoes so
00:08:18
I think I think you also emphasized that
00:08:21
as part of the product you were
00:08:23
delivering yeah Spain kind of allowed
00:08:25
that for me in this regard we we were
00:08:29
AIG shot in a small world in Italy we
00:08:33
would have been a little shot in a big
00:08:36
world so being the big shot we were able
00:08:39
to make our
00:08:40
rules everyone would live by them they
00:08:44
would naturally accept them and one of
00:08:46
them was that the discipline in the
00:08:49
quality of the product we could not
00:08:51
change it we couldn't ever compromise it
00:08:54
and from the very beginning I kind of
00:08:57
realized this is the business side
00:09:00
that I don't want to put shoes on you
00:09:03
give you a
00:09:04
blister you're going to tell your friend
00:09:07
who's going to tell her friend and we
00:09:08
probably lost eight customers not just
00:09:11
you um and it cost me once we did the
00:09:14
analysis with all the marketing costs of
00:09:17
a season how many new customers did we
00:09:19
get $88,000 for everyone you think I
00:09:23
want to throw that away that was the
00:09:25
business side so um and by the way it
00:09:29
often was in conflict with the creative
00:09:31
side I have discarded many gorgeous
00:09:35
shoes really gorgeous shoes that I knew
00:09:38
gals would love because my partner who
00:09:42
made sure every shoe worked right before
00:09:43
we distributed it said this is hurting
00:09:46
the foot here as pretty as that line is
00:09:49
it's cutting me in the wrong spot you
00:09:51
can't put this in the marketplace so by
00:09:53
playing off both of them and having that
00:09:56
discipline in our Factory Spain worked
00:09:59
out that's why the the DNA of Stuart
00:10:02
whitesman became fashion and function
00:10:06
not just one and not just the other yeah
00:10:08
that's really interesting and I remember
00:10:09
you talked about that it was an actual
00:10:11
person that you worked with who wore
00:10:13
your shoes right your actually be with
00:10:15
me on at the talk tonight yeah that was
00:10:18
pretty interesting uh and of course the
00:10:20
thing that was most fun and I'm sure you
00:10:22
still talk about was all your promotion
00:10:25
ideas to support the I love marketing
00:10:28
yeah like and I mean I sought you out
00:10:30
because of your career yeah I mean what
00:10:32
was most I remember and I'm sure this is
00:10:34
one of many many stories I don't want to
00:10:36
steal the Thunder from telling it in the
00:10:37
wrong way but I remember you were
00:10:39
talking about the Oscars obviously and
00:10:41
you were saying everybody's focusing on
00:10:43
the dresses but what shoes are they
00:10:45
wearing and ever since you told us that
00:10:48
story I look at the pictures now and
00:10:50
they do start talking about the shoes
00:10:52
which they didn't before you had this
00:10:54
big Eureka moment right this was a big
00:10:56
opportunity for you I uh I am proud to
00:10:58
take credit for the shoe cam we
00:11:02
exercised some originality one year and
00:11:06
it was so well received that shoe cams
00:11:08
were on most red carpets from then on
00:11:10
out and Joan Rivers helped a lot too she
00:11:14
she just carried on about how the shoes
00:11:16
fit and I'm on the red carpet I'm going
00:11:18
to wear your shoes the entire night
00:11:20
Stuart it's unbelievable I'm so happy
00:11:23
please don't retire with her big
00:11:25
wonderful mouth as we know I mean it's
00:11:27
just so interesting that people just
00:11:30
accept status quo that you're going to
00:11:31
focus on the celebrity you're going to
00:11:33
focus on the dress and and it's such a
00:11:36
natural to focus on the shoes but before
00:11:38
you had that that idea it it just wasn't
00:11:40
being done no and then having that
00:11:42
creative idea gives you such an
00:11:44
advantage going forward well it did
00:11:46
because Italians are they have great
00:11:49
hands they have a terrific eye they can
00:11:52
put a line to a shoe that's incomparable
00:11:54
honestly but they don't pay attention to
00:11:57
how it feels um they care about how it
00:12:01
looks and there are some great brands
00:12:03
that have lived off of that and I admire
00:12:06
them if you could have a huge market and
00:12:09
actually acknowledge that my goal is not
00:12:12
to make your foot feel good my goal is
00:12:15
to make your foot look good um I admire
00:12:18
someone who's able to do that it is not
00:12:20
my DNA and it's not one of the values of
00:12:23
our brand which another very important
00:12:25
thing I think I instituted in our
00:12:27
company we never
00:12:29
had rules for our brand it was always
00:12:32
values and that allowed us to evolve as
00:12:36
the values of society changed um I think
00:12:40
if I were restricted to certain rules
00:12:42
you can't Veer from them you know might
00:12:45
have been a handicap but it wasn't in
00:12:47
our case you know you sound ahead of the
00:12:49
curve there like you're saying things
00:12:50
that I think we're talking about in
00:12:52
modern branding now this idea of values
00:12:54
and you had your values back then
00:12:56
instead of being either product driven
00:12:57
or customer driven you were always value
00:12:59
driven is kind of what you're telling me
00:13:01
um the other thing I think you were
00:13:02
ahead of the curve on and this is some
00:13:04
of the other things that happened I
00:13:05
think around the Oscars or I can't
00:13:06
remember exactly where but you did
00:13:09
buzzworthy ideas like you had ideas that
00:13:12
generated a lot it wasn't just the shoe
00:13:14
cam which to me was a very big
00:13:16
inspiration but I I can't remember they
00:13:18
were like diamond encrusted boots or
00:13:21
something I mean didn't you have
00:13:22
something like that that got a lot of
00:13:24
attention before before all the social
00:13:27
media strategies that are now the way
00:13:28
people people are doing I think you were
00:13:30
doing that in well you know um all these
00:13:33
talks have led me to have to come up
00:13:36
with some titles for the different ones
00:13:38
I give and the one that's most often
00:13:41
part of of my touring is an
00:13:44
entrepreneurial Journey On The Road Less
00:13:47
Traveled and I emphasize The Road Less
00:13:50
Traveled thank you Robert Frost for that
00:13:52
wonderful poem um it became my Mantra
00:13:55
and I recognized in life even before my
00:14:00
career that when you do something that
00:14:03
gets you to the finish line but in an
00:14:05
unusual way a roundabout way not that
00:14:08
straight line and predictable path you
00:14:11
get noticed it's more fun your team
00:14:15
loves doing it and the end result is
00:14:18
Multiplied so all of these things that
00:14:21
you just referenced about doing things
00:14:23
that hadn't been done before to get get
00:14:25
us noticed that became part of the
00:14:28
company in abs absolutely every decision
00:14:30
my I made even even how to finance the
00:14:34
business that's how how pervasive this
00:14:36
idea was so give us some examples
00:14:39
because there's so much
00:14:41
fun well um eventually I had to
00:14:44
advertise I could you can't live off of
00:14:47
all the celebrities wearing your shoes
00:14:50
and getting the credits for it that's a
00:14:51
brandbuilding thing but we're in
00:14:54
business so I um I decided that I had to
00:14:59
advertise but I was also this is again
00:15:01
the business side coming into play I was
00:15:04
so aware in four years in business I'm
00:15:07
not making them as beautiful as others
00:15:10
blanck had been around 20 years before
00:15:12
me in Prada Etc I don't have the money
00:15:16
to hire the celebrities or the actresses
00:15:18
that are going to model them that they
00:15:20
can so mine go faceless so to speak
00:15:23
while theirs are so
00:15:25
recognizable and maybe even the quality
00:15:27
of shoe making it's a craft honestly
00:15:30
Barbara it takes years to make it better
00:15:32
and better and better and I will tell
00:15:34
you in the last year I made shoes they
00:15:37
were better than in the next the last
00:15:38
year I made shoes that's how that's what
00:15:40
happens with a craft I I could sum it up
00:15:44
with four words everyone says I'm a
00:15:47
little obsessed with shoes I think I'm a
00:15:49
lot obsessed with shoes but they're
00:15:50
being polite and our first
00:15:53
ad said Stewart's dog there's a picture
00:15:57
of this beautiful Dalmation we Whited
00:16:01
out the spots and we stencl on shoes oh
00:16:03
that's so cute and more than cute
00:16:07
Barbara it won US the Cleo award for
00:16:11
print advertising I am still a nobody in
00:16:13
Footwear I mean I'm up you can you know
00:16:16
who I'm up against and Stuart whitesman
00:16:19
wins the ad c campaign with our little
00:16:22
obsessed with shoes dalmati so that
00:16:25
convinced me I always have to think out
00:16:26
of the shoe box if pardon the pun but
00:16:29
that little campaign was phenomenal you
00:16:31
know you know what happened we got 8,000
00:16:34
posters requests from mothers my
00:16:38
daughter has a dog didn't have to be a
00:16:40
do oh that' be so cute could you send me
00:16:42
a poster so we weren't making posters
00:16:45
but you can be sure we made posters sent
00:16:47
out over 8,000 of them now I remember
00:16:50
someone in the company say you really
00:16:51
want to do that these kids are 10 years
00:16:53
old they're not customers but what are
00:16:55
they going to be in 12 years when they
00:16:58
get married even
00:16:59
what brand will they know before any
00:17:02
other with that poster on the wall while
00:17:04
they're gr course that's modern
00:17:06
marketing lifetime value of the customer
00:17:08
you know you see all of that kind of
00:17:09
stuff going ahead of the game I think
00:17:11
definely but I didn't think of it that
00:17:13
way Barber it just seemed like something
00:17:15
to do that others didn't because I I as
00:17:18
I said am I going to hire a model as
00:17:21
famous as them no I can't I had to think
00:17:24
out of the box didn't you also I can't
00:17:26
remember the details of this but didn't
00:17:28
you also design an architect to help
00:17:30
design your stores oh boy was that you
00:17:32
talk about you can't do it alone um
00:17:35
we're now successful and we're as good
00:17:38
in America and Canada and a little bit
00:17:40
in Europe as anybody but we're not in
00:17:42
Asia the global market is beginning to
00:17:44
open and just as I remember when I got
00:17:48
into our shoes in Bergdorf Goodman a
00:17:51
hundred boutiques around America wanted
00:17:54
to buy Stuart whitesman they shop the
00:17:56
best stores see who's being bought
00:17:59
and they try to chase down those Brands
00:18:02
there has to be a store in Asia or Hong
00:18:05
Kong or soul that has that impact and a
00:18:09
little research led me to a fabulous
00:18:11
mall called the IFC Center in Hong Kong
00:18:15
and today when I mention it even to
00:18:16
Chinese students who I'm talking to have
00:18:19
you ever been talk oh my gosh the IFC
00:18:21
Center I couldn't get in the M the
00:18:23
director said we sell Tom Ford we sell
00:18:27
heres we sell cardier we don't want low
00:18:30
price things like your shoes no that's
00:18:32
the way we were seen compared to them
00:18:35
and that went on for a couple of sales
00:18:37
pitches but I didn't give up because
00:18:39
there you ever think about it there's
00:18:41
always another
00:18:43
way in my touring of that area to see
00:18:46
the retail stores I noticed zaha Hadid
00:18:49
had buildings everywhere she was like
00:18:52
the Superstar like Frank Gary went to
00:18:54
bil B she went to Asia she won the
00:18:57
pritsker prize she did the many
00:18:59
buildings at the Japan Olympics she also
00:19:02
was doing that had done them at London
00:19:05
if I can hire zaha I thought maybe that
00:19:08
would give this man a reason to let me
00:19:10
in the mall so I did she built the most
00:19:14
fabulous store it won retail store of
00:19:17
the year on architectural digest Europe
00:19:20
that's how good it was and this guy
00:19:22
walks into our store in Milan gets the
00:19:24
manager to call me tracks me down on my
00:19:27
cell phone hey whitesman yeah this is oh
00:19:29
I remember you I was polite although I
00:19:32
didn't want to be um and he said if you
00:19:36
build me a store like I'm here I'm in
00:19:38
Milan here build it for me in the IFC
00:19:41
mall I'll give you the best location
00:19:42
there oh my God and he did now he wasn't
00:19:45
buying didn't care about the shoes zaha
00:19:49
helped me get in that mall and within
00:19:51
three years 25 moles in Asia had Stuart
00:19:55
whitesman doors wow I never heard that
00:19:58
whole story remember cuz I was going to
00:19:59
Milan and I went to visit that you told
00:20:02
me go see that store um and the store is
00:20:04
magnificent but I didn't know that whole
00:20:06
story around the story occurred after
00:20:08
you had seen that store cuz it was up
00:20:10
for about a year before he noticed it
00:20:12
during Milan Fashion Week yeah go see
00:20:15
your story you know you go things do it
00:20:17
things around the way do things in a
00:20:19
creative way you get a lot of attention
00:20:21
so now we said we're were going to talk
00:20:22
a little bit about this so since you've
00:20:24
retired you sold your company to coach
00:20:26
you're in your act too so we only have a
00:20:28
few minutes but it was interesting to
00:20:30
get to this point but tell us from your
00:20:32
act two you know you what you've done
00:20:34
you've come back to Wharton a lot you've
00:20:35
come back to pen and we appreciate it
00:20:37
and you've been inspiring our students
00:20:39
but you also have actually gone on the
00:20:41
road and you're giving talks at lots of
00:20:43
University so what's that experience
00:20:45
been like well it's been about
00:20:47
125 U this year or a quarter of that U
00:20:50
it's been fabulous and it's been
00:20:52
inspiring and I'll tell you why the
00:20:54
students I meet are so excited about
00:20:57
getting started in a career they seem so
00:21:00
wonderful so nice their questions are
00:21:03
great it's like my gosh maybe in 20
00:21:08
years this country will be what we
00:21:10
always had thought it was and should be
00:21:13
these are the kids who are going to be
00:21:15
running America and they are phenomenal
00:21:17
and I will tell you you would expect
00:21:19
that yes at Stanford or at Warton or at
00:21:23
Princeton but I've also been to RDI and
00:21:27
I feel the same thing the last week I
00:21:29
was at SMU the same thing so it isn't
00:21:33
whether it's in the top 10 top 20 top 30
00:21:36
I am finding that everywhere and uh it's
00:21:40
a great hope I am glad I'm doing this
00:21:42
for that reason alone so when I mean you
00:21:45
are unusual in that you had the design
00:21:48
perspective and the business perspective
00:21:49
when you talk to these students how
00:21:52
common is that like I imagine that
00:21:54
that's not as common generally it's
00:21:56
people who have one idea mind but I so
00:22:00
emphasize even in my talks at the
00:22:02
whitesman school of design here we're
00:22:05
all sales people we all have to Market a
00:22:09
great product
00:22:11
unknown remains unknown you have to know
00:22:14
the business side I give them ideas how
00:22:17
to finance without having to sell their
00:22:19
soul to so-called angel investors who
00:22:22
often become devil investors you know or
00:22:24
or to a bank that is looking over your
00:22:26
shoulder every time you take a nickel
00:22:28
out of your company I try to teach them
00:22:30
how to do it without that kind of NE
00:22:32
unnecessary support and they listen and
00:22:36
now by the way at the school of design
00:22:38
here at Penn 30% of the students are
00:22:42
taking courses in Wharton and that's up
00:22:44
from 25 and up from 20 and I believe I
00:22:47
mean how can you open an office as an
00:22:49
architect if you don't know how to run
00:22:51
it hire people leadership qualities you
00:22:54
have to know all of that you just can't
00:22:56
follow a passion with without reason you
00:23:00
know and that kind of makes sense in
00:23:01
that sense because the I don't know if
00:23:03
this is true since you know both you'll
00:23:05
know if it's true but it seems like it's
00:23:06
easier to teach designers business than
00:23:08
to teach business people how to design
00:23:10
you're absolutely right you're
00:23:12
absolutely right the most successful
00:23:14
Executives in my
00:23:16
company were not business people from
00:23:19
Business Schools who wear
00:23:22
blinkers it's creative people they have
00:23:26
the best imagination and that makes them
00:23:29
the best Executive also and we train
00:23:31
them to become an executive within their
00:23:34
role and in the end I think that helped
00:23:37
make Stuart whitesman an important
00:23:39
company in our industry without that we
00:23:42
just would have been another shoe
00:23:43
company well that is so great we're at a
00:23:45
time I knew this was goingon to fly by
00:23:47
and so many more questions I had to ask
00:23:49
you but steuart thank you so much for
00:23:51
joining us today and we're going to take
00:23:53
a short break this is marketing matters
00:23:55
Business Radio
00:23:57
SiriusXM
00:24:00
132
