00:00:00
Welcome, welcome to Wharton Moneyball. Welcome to a full hour of sports analytics here on the Wharton podcast
00:00:07
network. This is Kade Massie hosting this week with the whole crew. The crew I've been in here with for more than 12
00:00:15
years now. Shane Jensen is here on campus just out the classroom. Audi Winer is here. I think that's his own
00:00:21
library at home if I'm not mistaken. And Eric Bradlo's here in his office,
00:00:25
longtime Huntsman Hall office, eighth, no, not 84, seventh floor. We are recording on Tuesday afternoon as we
00:00:32
usually do. The show will go up on Wednesday. We're going to follow our usual format. We'll have a guest here in
00:00:39
the first half hour before opening up in the second half hour to hear what has caught people's eye. We're delighted to
00:00:46
welcome on to the show for the first time, Sam Ful. Sam is currently vice president and general manager with the
00:00:54
Philadelphia Phillies. He is moving into the position of president of business operations for the Phillies. And he
00:01:02
tells us he's transitioned most of his baseball ops responsibilities away. And
00:01:06
he's kind of squarely in there, but he hasn't yet graduated from Wharton. And
00:01:10
it's not going to be official until he graduates from Wharton. Sam has been doing a thing that we have a couple
00:01:16
hundred folks do every year, 22 250. They maintain full-time work while coming back for an executive MBA. And it
00:01:22
means going to school every other weekend for two years while also working, maybe having a family,
00:01:30
traveling for business, all of those things. I genuinely do not know how they do it. I've had the great privilege and
00:01:36
pleasure of having Sam in the classroom. Great fun to have you on the show, Sam.
00:01:40
Welcome. >> Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on with you guys. >> Well, it's a and we know you're at a
00:01:46
busy stage. school season's off and running, transitioning jobs. Appreciate you making time for us. Um,
00:01:53
>> to do it. >> What's the What's the vibe with the Phillies? Give us a check in with the
00:01:56
clubhouse and the building. How's it feeling? 10 games in, six and four. What's the V?
00:02:02
>> Vibe is good. I mean, um, you know, it was a it was a up and down home stand,
00:02:07
which is crazy to say in a six game um, span that you can have so many ups and downs, but you couldn't have scripted a
00:02:14
better opening day. Beautiful day. um a lot of lot of new sort of ballpark um projects that got finished at the buzzer
00:02:22
and a lot of our fans got to see some of those things with like a renovated team
00:02:25
store and a really cool upgraded um you know hall of fame club level that a lot of our fans got to witness um maybe
00:02:33
didn't know just how down to crunch time that that that brought but um you know a
00:02:39
great great win and it was beautiful and then we went into a little bit of a lull
00:02:42
and then we had this amazing comeback walk-off win on our last game in the home stand. So, yeah, it's amazing how
00:02:48
many narratives you can strike in a six game set and then, you know, the the beginning uh this West Coast road trip's
00:02:54
been pretty good. So, all is good. >> Right on target for 97 wins. That that'd
00:02:58
be I'd be okay with that number. >> I would too, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It
00:03:02
would it would be more than last year by by one. So, you know. Yeah. Progress. >> Is it is it Which is a bigger threat
00:03:09
early on, Sam? Overreacting or being complacent since there's so many games in a season? Which which way is which
00:03:16
way is the bigger risk? >> Probably run the risk of overreacting. It seems like, you know, a six game
00:03:23
sample or a 10 game sample at the very beginning of the year is always like magnified, you know, and if you go
00:03:29
through a six game lull in June or August, for some reason, people seem to care a little bit less about it. Maybe
00:03:36
not in Philly, but um generally you run the risk of uh maybe overanalyzing a little bit. You know, I think about it
00:03:43
like with with roster construction sometimes you put so much emphasis on like what's that opening day roster
00:03:49
going to look like and you forget that like two games into the year you're probably going to have a transaction to
00:03:54
make. Um and so yeah, I think whether you're a fan, an executive, uh even a player, um I think and I' I've lived it
00:04:02
where I started the year like one for 20 and you look up in the scoreboard like how do I move on? How do I go on with
00:04:09
life? Um, so yeah, all for all those reasons, I think the the beginning of the season's a little risky there to
00:04:17
overest. All right. Tell us, let's let's just check in with your career briefly
00:04:21
just to let the context set and then we'll got a question. But just context is you you came out of Stanford
00:04:27
all-American baseball player. You played pro in some capacity for 13 years. You're in the big leagues for eight of
00:04:33
those years. Transition into into management and and now you've really known for someone who blends got the
00:04:40
player history, have the analytics as well, high on performance, and now you're adding kind of the business side
00:04:46
of things. Can you talk about how you've made these decisions from a player into
00:04:50
management? You decided you want to do that and now you're broadening your portfolio again from going kind of the
00:04:55
traditional player thing into the business side of things. >> Yeah. So the player to uh you know
00:05:02
baseball executive transition I think was more conventional, more maybe arguably logical. Um like I love
00:05:10
baseball just you know was a a sports lover as a kid and but baseball was always sort of special to me and um I
00:05:17
never knew how far my playing career was going to take me but um and there were plenty of moments in my playing career
00:05:22
where it felt like it was the end. Like I was a, you know, my first year in the minor leagues, I was a 10th round senior
00:05:28
sign with like no prospect status and I was probably hitting 200 in the first half and low a ball thinking, well, this
00:05:36
is this might be it. Um, better start thinking about next steps. So, I was always sort of thinking about what what
00:05:42
my post playing career would look like once I hung up the spikes or once teams told, you know, forced me to
00:05:48
>> Right. Right. Um, and I thought, you know what, the front office side was
00:05:52
always interesting to me, especially like as I got to the big leagues and got to play in these really awesome
00:05:58
organizations like, you know, Tampa Bay and Oakland and got got a little bit of a look under the hood, um, that that
00:06:05
life was really compelling to me and I felt like um, as long as it made sense personally was like my wife and then,
00:06:12
you know, now four kids, um, as long as we as a as a family were were comfortable kind of pursuing doing that
00:06:19
path. I felt like a pretty um logical next step. Like I loved I was always a math nerd and I love the intersection of
00:06:25
math and um and baseball. And so what better kind of environment to do like scratch both of those itches than being
00:06:34
a an executive. So my my first role after playing was a little bit of a hybrid role where I was still putting a
00:06:40
uniform on. I was in the coaches room and I served as a bit of a translator between our R&D team
00:06:47
>> and the players and staff down at the clubhouse. Um so it was front office
00:06:53
coaching hybrid and um that was really a really great you know entry level role.
00:06:59
Um, but then as things progressed, it felt like both from a professional and personal standpoint, like, you know,
00:07:05
putting khakis on instead of baseball pants maybe made more sense. >> Even if they're not a big difference.
00:07:12
Let me stop you there, Sam, and let the let the boys jump in with any questions around the what you've described so far.
00:07:17
I know that I've got some, but I want to give the guys a chance. Uh, do you want
00:07:20
to jump in now? >> Sure. I'm happy to jump in, although I'm responding I guess I'll respond to two
00:07:24
things. First of all, um, we didn't overlap at Stanford. I was there before you, but I used to go that was my
00:07:30
afternoons. I would sit and do math problems at the sunken diamond. Um, watch Mike Msina say now how old I am.
00:07:35
Um, that was uh that was great times. Not very crowded I will say. Um, but I did study statistics there and um and
00:07:43
the thing that I think is interesting is and just as a background you talked about the beginning of the season 1 and
00:07:48
20 mostly one and 20 we recognize it within some sort of natural variation. How how deep into the season before you
00:07:56
you start looking at some of the players, particularly ones that don't have a long track record with the team
00:08:01
and start thinking, uh, this is not the right the right this is not working out well. And and I guess when you're
00:08:07
thinking about that, are you doing some of your own stats? Are you are you looking your staff to help you with that
00:08:12
or you're not looking at Oh, >> no. Oh, I mean, well, one, I think lucky
00:08:17
to have like a really great uh and robust analytics team that, you know, luckily I'm not the one building models
00:08:24
and I'm leaning on or have been and I'm speaking in the present tense, but my
00:08:29
focus uh is business oriented now, but in in my previous role as GM, um, you know, there's there's no sort of
00:08:38
threshold necessarily that we're looking at, okay, 30 games in, we can start
00:08:42
really evaluating guys. you know, you're you're balancing the sort of magnitude
00:08:46
of the performance either upside of the performance to the downside and sometimes your hand is forced. I mean,
00:08:52
um, sometimes just, you know, some, you know, a player on on a major league contract is starts to deer on the I and
00:08:59
then he gets healthy and then you've got to make a tough roster decision and of
00:09:03
course like performance whether it's two weeks in, two days in, two months in, it
00:09:08
all matters. But um we do like just from through a quantitative lens like we are
00:09:14
updating our our models and our forecasting pretty regularly. So they do a great job of sort of baking in the
00:09:21
this sample of recent performance and how to compare recent performance with say performance a year ago and and it's
00:09:28
not just obviously one for 20. It's these underlying characteristics that we
00:09:33
know are are a bit more predictive of future performance. Did did you come have you become a fan
00:09:41
of any particular underlying metric or peripheral as Audi sometimes refers to them? What's in your
00:09:48
>> list? There's a lot of them now. Yeah, >> there's a lot of them now. So, do you
00:09:51
have do you have a favorite? >> Um >> or do you have a new one that you're
00:09:56
romancing and you're thinking about got a little sparkle in your eye about >> Oh boy. Well, I mean, I think it's cool
00:10:01
that some of the some of the underlying uh characteristics that we have sort of leaned on have learned to be really
00:10:09
predictive internally have become more public facing. Like you're seeing um you
00:10:14
know public facing stuff models where you you're evaluating assessing the quality of a pitcher's repertoire,
00:10:21
right? Like and it's based off of all the different inputs that we can capture
00:10:25
now. horizontal brake, vertical brake, spin rate, release point, uh extension, all these inputs that um we yeah throw
00:10:34
in a blender and we know we can assign a score on the traditional typically on the traditional kind of 2080 um scatting
00:10:42
scale. >> Um and so I think that's really neat like it not that we needed validation
00:10:48
necessarily, but it's cool to see that surface publicly. And I think what's
00:10:53
cool and I'm just picking out stuff as an example, but I think it's like pretty
00:10:58
intuitive. Like we've we've in terms of like lexicon within the baseball
00:11:03
industry, we've used a word like stuff for a long time. Like this venture's got
00:11:06
great stuff. >> That's that that phrase has been said for who knows 50, 100 years.
00:11:11
>> Um but we can now we can now quantify what it is to actually have great stuff.
00:11:17
Um and so there's just endless opportunity like related to stuff is I think which has not necessarily been
00:11:24
quantified quite as well as uh this notion of deception. So you're sort of blending the you know ball flight data
00:11:32
with what is the pitcher doing in his delivery to either add or subtract from deception like hindering a's ability to
00:11:40
recognize a pitch recognize you know location. Um, that is a really interesting subject that we spent a lot
00:11:47
of time on internally, >> right? Really cool. There's these cool Twitter videos these days where these
00:11:52
they'll show the pitcher, the ball path, five different pitches and how close
00:11:55
they are says something about how deceptive, but I'm sure you guys are miles beyond that. Shane and then Shane
00:12:00
and the ner. Well, I guess just a clarification when you sort of talk about deception, are you talking mostly
00:12:05
about the kind of mechanical like tunneling and stuff like that or are you talking also about kind of deception on
00:12:12
the pitch by like p, you know, p pitch sequencing and and and kind of like sort of like Yeah, I I guess there's two
00:12:20
different levels of deception that I think pitchers generally employ in a game. I don't know which of those you
00:12:25
you know are are you kind of talking about them on it or >> I mean I think there's like multiple
00:12:30
definitions of deception. I think there's um there there certainly is like sort of a sequencing component um which
00:12:36
maybe gets talked about less than some of the more physical characteristics of deception. But even underneath the
00:12:44
physical umbrella you've got like okay does he step across his body and sort of
00:12:48
shield the line of sight to the baseball from a hitter's perspective. Um, is
00:12:52
there something about his fast ball movement quality that just makes it really difficult uh to pick up where a
00:12:59
guy throwing 90 might feel like 105 as a hitter? Like it, you know, that could be
00:13:04
related to his spin rate. It could be related to the, you know, his arm slot and okay, typically guys with lower arm
00:13:10
slots, they generate run and sync on their fast ball, but this guy has a low slot that actually gets carry on his
00:13:17
fast ball through the zone. So all these little things and they start to sort of
00:13:21
merge and overlap with our definition of stuff and that's like the really challenging part. It's like where do you
00:13:26
draw a line between you know pitch quality stuff and what the what the pitcher is actually doing with his body
00:13:33
and and now with like all the bio biomechanics data that we have at our disposal um we can really start to kind
00:13:39
of wrap our heads around it. But it'll you know it'll put you into galaxy brain
00:13:44
mode really quick. >> Eric. Yeah. Yeah. So Sam, I want to uh integrate your past job with your
00:13:50
current job. So you know, since I'm also a marketing professor, um I spend a lot
00:13:55
of time thinking about how to use data science for the business side of things. Like how do we max since you're now
00:14:00
going on the business ops business side, how do you optimally send email campaigns and discounts and all kinds of
00:14:08
vouchers and opportunities. So I hope I hope or it's a question but I hope you're planning on using what you've
00:14:14
learned on the onfield moneyball side but now there's moneyball for business.
00:14:19
How are you thinking about that integration >> in a lot of different ways? Um I I could
00:14:25
probably go on and on. I mean we lucky fortunate that we have an existing business analytics uh team that is are
00:14:32
trying to solve for the very same problems that you just um outlined. So it there is endless kind of opportunity
00:14:38
to better quantify and better sort of predict um what interventions on the business side can make most sense and
00:14:46
it's like I I mean it can be demand forecasting like what would happen if we
00:14:50
you know juice our ticket prices by 5% next year 10% or 15% like the you know those sorts of questions it's okay what
00:14:58
if we move chicks and pets from section 122 section 105 I mean >> and you can AB test these things and
00:15:06
like really you can do a lot of cool things. I mean it's there really is kind
00:15:11
of a >> by the way all of us professors here are happy to say you've already said the
00:15:15
magic word which is going to do experiments. My old colleagues have told me about
00:15:22
experiments only want to know the answer. >> Yeah that stuff all the time which is
00:15:28
really neat. I mean, it's Yeah, I not to hang on to like the concessions uh discussion, but we've got these like
00:15:35
grab and go areas around the ballpark and how do how do those sales compare to, you know, traditional point of sale?
00:15:42
Um, we're testing that sort of stuff all all the time. >> Uh, Audi, I think, has a question. Yeah,
00:15:49
I do actually want to ask you uh continue a conversation that we've been having with a lot of our baseball guests
00:15:55
going back to Jane Levy who wrote this book on make me commission and I'll fix
00:15:58
the game or something of that nature and then we talked with Theo about this and
00:16:02
this relates to sort of the business side. How do you how are you thinking about the next generation of fans? I
00:16:08
mean Eric and I in particular, we became, you know, obsessed with baseball as children because of little things in
00:16:13
some level. I mean I remember going onto the field as an eight-year-old and getting signed autographs. um being able
00:16:19
to um watch the the games really early and I've noticed things have really changed as be as the bottom line has
00:16:26
become more in principle focus for many teams like one of the things we talked about was opening up the stadium early
00:16:33
to watch batting practice and Theo reminded us well many of the players don't want to take batting practice on
00:16:38
the field they want to do it at the check machines down under underneath and the teams don't want to pay to have the
00:16:44
the stadium open more than an hour or whatever an hour and a half before the game, but I kept thinking, well, that's
00:16:50
that might be nice for the players locally and nice for the team locally, but in the long run, it's terrible
00:16:57
because you aren't you aren't creating the future of fans in your So, in your
00:17:01
role, what do how do you think about balancing those two? >> Yeah, it's a great question. Um, and
00:17:07
definitely think about those short-term and long-term trade-offs on the baseball
00:17:10
side all the time, like especially in player development. Okay, if it's one thing to optimize for some minor league
00:17:17
pitchers success today, but you have to keep like the the long-term forecast in mind. And in that context, it's like
00:17:24
very much long-term oriented. But same thing on the on the fan side where, you know, I think
00:17:30
>> one of the things we talk about a lot is like we could there's a very like
00:17:34
reasonable case to be made that we could be even more aggressive with um our ticket pricing strategy. But so if the
00:17:41
the only goal was to maximize revenue, ticket revenue in 2026, we would probably we would price differently.
00:17:49
>> But we know that there are families that need to continue to have access and we
00:17:55
need to develop um strong relationships with with all of our fans and certainly that that youth demographic that now has
00:18:02
a wider assortment of um sort of leisure and entertainment um options at their disposal. like it it's really important
00:18:09
to like maintain access um to families of four, families of six, schools, like you know field trips. So we may not
00:18:19
we're you know in certain parts of the ballpark for sure we are being more modest with our ticket pricing strategy
00:18:25
with a longer term perspective in mind. Same thing goes with like media access. We know that, you know, the younger
00:18:33
demographic is consuming sports and baseball in a way different way than um, you know, other generations and so we
00:18:39
have to respond to that and kind of be willing and able to play on their turf to the extent that we can.
00:18:45
>> Sam related, there's a lot of talk around the Phillies about Philadelphia
00:18:50
and the community. I'm curious for your perspective going all the way down to
00:18:55
the players and do the players feel that something's different in Philadelphia
00:18:58
and I know sometimes it pops up in other locations. You know, Philly is not the only place where it where it has
00:19:03
sometimes felt like that. But do players really feel that way about Philadelphia?
00:19:06
And if so, why? Like how does that show up? What does make it different? If it is,
00:19:11
>> I think it is. I mean, I when I first came here, we were this is 2018, my
00:19:14
first year here, and everybody talked about like, oh, just wait till we get to the playoffs. It's different. It's
00:19:19
different. And um you know I had played in a decent number of playoff games as a
00:19:23
player like played at Fenway, played uh played at Texas, played play played a wild card game in Kansas City. It was
00:19:29
insane. Like played in unbelievable environments and I'm thinking to myself then in 2018 like how different can this
00:19:36
really be? And then you know four years later finally we got we got to the playoffs and I kind of lived it and felt
00:19:44
it. literally felt stadium shaking and um it really didn't sink in until like
00:19:51
game one of uh the wild card when we in 2022 um that I was like this is just different um and this is like uh sorry
00:20:02
it wasn't wild card it was the DS we were we were in St. those day or for the
00:20:05
wild card. But, uh, I really do think it is like the level of intensity and passion that you feel for the for the
00:20:12
fans. Um, that's not the only thing. And I think that's number one for me. Like
00:20:17
the just fans are going to tell you how how it is, but when things are going well, there's no better place to be. And
00:20:24
the energy that like lifts up players, I think, is it's palpable. It really is.
00:20:29
Like guys talk about it and not because they're like pandering to the fan base.
00:20:32
It's real. like the the energy those that you get from and it's not just in
00:20:36
the playoffs. It's like >> we felt it opening day, we felt it throughout the first home stands. It's
00:20:41
like >> the noise and like the level of sort of understanding of the game. I think
00:20:45
players feel that. Uh and then the second thing I think is just like the way that we've treated our players
00:20:50
organizationally like John Melton is, you know, I think the best owner in the game and he's and he's very he's he's
00:20:57
generous in so many ways, but he's very like attuned to like kind of what matters. So little things like building
00:21:02
a really awesome family room at the ballpark so that you know players and coaches uh families feel comfortable and
00:21:11
feel like they're being cared for and that they're um they're a big part of
00:21:14
the equation. um you know things being accessible players like things that John does sort of instinctively I think
00:21:22
really does make a difference and I think it's helped us land free agents and I think it's helped us you know
00:21:27
we've had some recent extensions with Lazardo and Sanchez and you know even guys like Matt Stramo basically have
00:21:34
been like I you know I want to be here let's find a way to like stay here longer than than I can um you hear that
00:21:40
a lot and I don't think that exists in in every major league organization >> Sam can you say just a touch more about
00:21:46
Middleton. So, he's a he's a managing owner, majority owner of the club. Uh
00:21:51
stepped in, I don't know, seven, eight years ago now, maybe a little bit longer. Um I've only barely been around
00:21:57
it, but I was instantly super impressed. And something we say on the show and have from the beginning is how
00:22:02
profoundly and sometimes surprisingly important ownership is. Like fans may not appreciate how much that influence
00:22:09
works its way all the way down to the field really, but we don't see the ins
00:22:14
and outs of it. So, and and at the risk of your pander, we don't want you to
00:22:18
pander, but like tell us something about why when you say you think Middleton's
00:22:21
the best owner in baseball, tell us something about why that is. What is he in what way is he different?
00:22:26
>> Well, I think there's a level of competitiveness that I mean, he I know
00:22:30
every owner in pro sports wants to win championships, but John's like desire to
00:22:34
win a championship is, I think, at another level. Um, and you know, it shows up in different ways. I got, you
00:22:40
know, obviously we have a a big payroll and we he's committed to um being generous across the board, but
00:22:46
particularly with respect to uh our ability to go land the next best player on the free agent market or lock up a
00:22:51
player early on in his career that may have a little bit of, you know, risk and uncertainty attached to the player. Um
00:22:58
you know that it that that much like the world knows. Um but I mean he was like he's but he sets the bar like the level
00:23:06
of accountability really high. I mean, he was like a super competitive high school wrestler, college wrestler. Um,
00:23:12
and it feels like that competitive those competitive juices from the wrestling mat are like just transfer right over to
00:23:20
the office. And it's great. like it's like what else could you ask for as an
00:23:23
owner uh to have somebody who really cares and kind of pours his heart and soul into this um industry and he's here
00:23:32
a lot and that's and it's like he's he's hands-on and it's cares like it's you
00:23:37
know there's a there's a high level of accountability that he holds and like
00:23:42
what else could you ask for as an employee in an organization? >> It's great. Eric,
00:23:46
>> I was just wondering you mentioned kind of um long-term contracts and stuff. How
00:23:51
do you think about, you know, Audi and I have always had this discussion. How do
00:23:54
you think about like age curves in sports? Like let's imagine just hypothetically you could sign a
00:23:59
31-year-old who's still in the prime of their career, may have who knows, maybe
00:24:03
six, seven good years left, but to get it done, you're going to have to that
00:24:07
person to a 10-year contract. How do you guys think about that? And um do you guys have an actual formal way to study
00:24:15
it? How you guys think about aging curves? >> We do. Yeah. Um yeah, I think you know
00:24:20
we I think every team does at this point you know I think um may maybe the variance in how teams
00:24:27
approach like are there certain position profiles that have different agent curves? Are there different physical
00:24:33
characteristics? Like you can slice and dice it a little bit more meaningfully now. Um, but yeah, I think generally
00:24:39
like you know that you may have to um you may sign a contract that's a little
00:24:45
bit uncomfortable like you kind of have I think Andrew Friedman said it like if you're rational in free agent decision-m
00:24:50
all the time you're going to finish third every time. Um but with that you know you know bar
00:25:01
you have major league players who somehow seem to get better in their late 30s. you know that as they get to that
00:25:07
uh po part part of their sort of career path that you're probably going to see a
00:25:12
decline in performance and maybe that contract isn't going to be um you know
00:25:17
sort of above above par um but but you know you're going to likely get surplus
00:25:23
value at the beginning stages of that contract and you're willing to make that
00:25:25
tradeoff. >> How great are you feeling about that Bryce Harper contract right now? I
00:25:29
forget what it's like 13 325 or something. I mean whatever it is what a bargain. Oh my god.
00:25:36
>> Yeah. No, I mean he's he's special. We've seen it. We see it every every day
00:25:40
really. Um but yeah, and you never know how the market is going to shift over time. That's a tough thing to nail down.
00:25:46
Um you know, it's the it's the biggest contract that free agent contract that
00:25:50
was ever signed at the at the time and now it's I don't even know where it
00:25:53
falls in terms of uh total value, but it's it's nowhere near the top. But
00:25:59
yeah, uh he's he's fantastic and and um it's pretty cool to see what he's done
00:26:05
at first base taking on this new position and just like he is one heck of an athlete and I think he uh I knew I
00:26:11
had a feeling it was kind like that that the transition would be like pretty seamless for him. He used to mess around
00:26:16
and like take rounders at third base uh just for fun and and if you didn't know
00:26:21
what the name on the back of his jersey was like like oh that's um a future gold
00:26:26
glover over there like it's just got instincts and athleticism in spades. >> Sam, can you talk a little bit about
00:26:35
what you think it what you think the best combination of qualities are for a executive in baseball today? I mean, for
00:26:42
generations they were baseball guys and then they've become kind of quants and
00:26:47
to more to a greater extent than any other sport. There are quants running baseball clubs around MLB. You're a mix
00:26:55
of these things and probably increasingly there are people like you. Can you is there is there someone around
00:27:01
the league maybe not with the Phillies that you could say I think this person's
00:27:04
really good. This is what I admire about them. or is there some What do you think
00:27:08
it takes to be as good as as it as there is in running baseball teams right now?
00:27:14
>> Yeah. Um I don't you know I don't know if there's like one quality necessarily,
00:27:19
but I I'll give you two examples. Like I nobody wants to necessarily hear more
00:27:23
about the Dodgers, but like I do, you know, I referenced Andrew Freriedman. Um Brandon Gomes, who works under him as
00:27:29
the GM, their number two former teammate of mine in Tampa. You know, Brandon's a
00:27:34
good example of a guy who played and understands what it's like to, you know,
00:27:36
get get his uh spikes dirty, but um super sharp, super smart, obviously working under, you know, one of, if not
00:27:44
the the best. Um and so I think that they have like high level of um just baseline intellect, but they've got like
00:27:55
crazy good EQ as well. And Brandon has the advantage of having played and being able to empathize with with what these
00:28:00
guys are going through every day. So, if you can kind of blend those two things um and really like yeah make decisions
00:28:08
really well um and generally like evidence-based decisions and know how how to how to do so but also like be
00:28:14
able to relate to players like I think that's the ne that's why you're seeing I
00:28:17
think maybe more former players step into these executive roles like you have a ton of data um ton of resources that
00:28:25
not just through a player acquisition lens like trades free agents etc but through a player development lens now in
00:28:31
the last like get really advanced in getting players better using data and technology. But it kind of helps like
00:28:38
sometime with new stuff it helps to have the sort of immediate credibility um >> and that be able to relate to players um
00:28:48
in a meaningful way that that you know frankly like somebody who has never played the game they may be equally
00:28:53
adept at explaining it but that credibility is real. It just is. So, you know, so that's one example. And
00:29:00
then like there's plenty of other GMs and presidents that maybe didn't play at
00:29:04
the highest level, but they're so gifted and relationship building and they they
00:29:09
they empathize with the challenges of playing this the game on a daily basis that they're able to sort of match like
00:29:16
get like whatever clear that hurdle pretty quickly because of how cool they are and how easy they get.
00:29:24
>> That's great. All right. Uh, Eric I think was first in the naughty.
00:29:27
>> Yeah, just quickly Sam you mentioned the Dodgers. So you could imagine baseball,
00:29:31
correct me if I'm wrong, maybe you think about it differently. Is not one of
00:29:34
those sports you can say we've got to just build a team to beat the Dodgers because it's not like basketball where
00:29:41
you say, you know, we got to build a team that's going to beat, I don't know,
00:29:44
the Spurs or the Thunder, right? Thunder are the champs right now. The Dodgers are the two-time champs. You could I
00:29:49
mean is do you think about it that way or you just have to get better because there's so much you know I'll use the
00:29:55
Shane Jensen coin flipping model. There's so much randomness in baseball. You could build a team to to quote
00:30:01
unquote go after the Dodgers weaknesses but you may never get to the NL NL Championship game. You may not win
00:30:08
enough games in the regular season to even qualify. How do you think about that?
00:30:11
>> Yeah, I mean I think generally just you you really want to just feel the best
00:30:14
possible team. whatever your definition of best is like that's what you want to
00:30:18
index on and this sort of matchup based decision- making I think you can make like maybe small marginal decisions so
00:30:27
you're at the deadline and maybe you're weak in left-handed bullpen arms and you
00:30:33
know you've got a potentially Otani and Freddy Freeman waiting in the wings in
00:30:37
the playoffs and maybe you do get a little bit more aggressive with a left-hander just as an example um and
00:30:43
maybe and maybe further down the road, you're making playoff roster decisions.
00:30:47
You're like, "It's a toss up between a lefty and a righty, but we know we're
00:30:50
playing the Dodgers in round one, and we know we've got to like somehow combat
00:30:54
those lefties in the lineup." Things like that you can make sort of on the margins, but generally I think even
00:31:02
within like your roster construction, I don't I know a lot of people talk about
00:31:06
having sort of balance within a lineup, speed, power. I think like generally you
00:31:12
just want the best players. uh and there's not necessarily like um sort of like add added value if you've got like
00:31:20
this combination um >> interesting >> of skills talent like I think some I I
00:31:25
get the I get that argument but I think it maybe gets a little overblown sometimes
00:31:31
>> well listen I can ask you a ton of questions Sam so I'm always trying to
00:31:34
figure out a question you're going to answer um which is always a tricky one
00:31:38
um so I'll start with this I've actually been doing some research with some
00:31:40
students uh comparing the value of the draft picks across different sports and baseball consistently falls as the least
00:31:49
valuable. In other words, you know, the draft doesn't produce that much value at
00:31:53
the top compared to say NBA, NFL, hockey, actually surprised to me. I didn't know much about that, but you
00:31:59
know, the the all-star performances of the top of the drafts are almost guaranteed, you know, in those sports,
00:32:05
but not so much in baseball. Um, and that I always thought had to do with the fact that they were drafted so young and
00:32:10
so you never knew at these years before they were in the pros and you never knew, but that's changing to a certain
00:32:17
degree, particularly with NIL, um, which is mostly concentrated in football and basketball and I think baseball too. Um,
00:32:24
so what does that mean for professionals? Are you going to be looking more towards the draft? You be
00:32:28
looking at college players who are already 22, played four years at a high quality program. you think the draft is
00:32:34
going to be more important to baseball going forward or or what's your thoughts
00:32:37
on that? >> Yeah, it's a good in good question, good insight. I think probably short answer
00:32:43
is yes. If we do continue continue to see this trend of more high school players sort of bypassing the draft and
00:32:50
going to college, um we know that like you know whether you're you're making
00:32:55
your amateur draft decisions purely model based or it's some blend of models
00:33:00
and scouts or it's like a little bit of modeling as a foundation and then a lot
00:33:03
of scout influence. We just know regardless of like kind of how you distribute across those two, we know
00:33:10
that like data from playing at a higher level than high school is meaningful no matter what you do with that data. So,
00:33:18
um I mean the draft is like always been important. I guess you could say that it's going to become a little
00:33:25
bit more important, but the resources that we deploy for the that you know two, three, four day period uh every
00:33:33
year is is massive. I mean, we got, you know, 20 plus amateur scouts that are going all over the country and watching
00:33:39
players all the time. Um, and an increasing focus from a R&D standpoint and how we how we model future
00:33:46
performance even for 17 18 year olds that, you know, they're getting we're
00:33:50
getting more and more data on them like the the perfect game showcases the world,
00:33:54
>> you get data on them. Um, so that's all helpful and you know all the intangible
00:33:59
stuff that we're trying to quantify like their makeup and things like that like
00:34:03
that's all going it's all sort of a a part of the equation. >> Yeah. More more sort of three year
00:34:12
threeear college players that played in the SEC or the ACC. Like I don't know
00:34:16
you're going to feel a little bit better about that than maybe taking a leap of
00:34:20
faith. Now that said we've we've had pretty good success stories. the Phillies have in drafting high school
00:34:25
players like Andy Payner and Justin Crawford. But yeah, we're there to maybe
00:34:29
like um take advantage of of some teams that maybe have leaned uh even further along the sort of let's focus on college
00:34:36
players spectrum. >> Sam, we're real close and need to let you go, but Eric wants to jump in there
00:34:42
with another question. >> Building exactly on Audi's question. How much do you invest in variance?
00:34:48
>> Invest well at the pro level a lot. Um it's something that we we literally
00:34:54
coined the term like embracing variance. Um which I think is it's cool. >> Yeah. Uh I think it's easy to sort of
00:35:04
under >> appreciate um what player like future player performance is going to look like.
00:35:09
Especially with guys that like just have a couple >> Exactly. >> That's why I was building on Audi's
00:35:13
question. Especially if you have a young town, huge variance that could be great.
00:35:17
>> Totally. because like you you can avoid the downside risk like you're not you
00:35:21
know you're not entering into lifelong relationships with players. That's just
00:35:25
the kind of the reality of it. Now guaranteed major league contracts is one thing but um you know we talk about it a
00:35:32
lot with like these sort of underappreciated 24 year old minor leaguers that have
00:35:36
reached six-year minor league free agency and 24 is pretty young. like there's a lot of potential upside there
00:35:43
and you know you're getting them like a lot of c you know uh control uh in that
00:35:49
you know they get to the big leagues and you got six years before they hit hit free agency. Um so a lot of good can
00:35:55
happen and if the opposite happens like you you can always you know you never want to plan or even talk about
00:36:03
releasing fire but you do obviously inevitably make those decisions. So yeah, I mean we have h Chris Sanchez is
00:36:11
a great example. I mean Chris Sanchez was like um a player who really kind of struggled
00:36:17
to get over the hump with us. He was a encountering like struggle at Triple A and he just took off seemingly randomly
00:36:25
a lot of like kind of stuff underneath the surface that helped him turn the corner. But he went from a guy who was
00:36:31
pretty close to being taken off our roster to like you know what he is now and it happened quick and the upside of
00:36:40
that variance is definitely like has been tapped into. >> That's amazing. All right, we've kept
00:36:45
you longer than we meant to. I got to ask one more question. Don't answer it
00:36:48
without without thinking very hard. Just three quick ones. Three quick ones without thinking very hard. You're about
00:36:53
to graduate two years from now. You sunk an enormous amount of time and somebody
00:36:57
you or the affiliates have sunk some serious cash into what you've done for the last two years. Three highlights of
00:37:03
your time as an executive MBA at Wharton over the last two years >> other than your class.
00:37:08
>> Other than my class, Sam, but thank you. >> Okay. Um, three highlights.
00:37:13
>> Quick, quick, don't think hard. Number one is like the very first week where I
00:37:17
was thrown into this simulation through like a marketing simulation and I felt so out of place. So in many ways a low
00:37:25
light but it's a highlight in that I survived it. Got to know my learning team like super fast, super quick and
00:37:31
they they kind of helped bolster me up. We helped each other. Um but that was like
00:37:37
>> I I was about ready to quit um one day. Yeah. >> Uh so that's one I think
00:37:41
>> that's great. Professor Federer's class was pretty awesome. >> You guys all know him. And
00:37:48
>> well, he's my colleague here in the marketing department. So, I'd say I know
00:37:51
him extraordinarily well. >> Applied stats, applied probability. Is that >> probability modeling and marketing? So,
00:37:57
um got to at least speak the language that our analysts do to talk you why gamas and
00:38:02
>> wels sound smart. >> Um so, that that was another one. And well, relatedly, not just because uh
00:38:11
Pete Feder was on trip, but the the the global trip to Stockholm was fantastic. Um just getting to see a different part
00:38:19
of the world. Um getting my wife to actually join me towards the end, but but also just interacting with folks
00:38:25
from the San Francisco corps and the global cohort that we didn't really get
00:38:28
a chance to um overlap with a ton. And I don't know, getting your hands dirty
00:38:33
with like meeting with companies and hearing about how they think. like I live in a narrow lane and this this
00:38:38
baseball world is very niche. Um, so getting like a real hands-on opportunity to to talk to pretty cool people over
00:38:45
there that are doing some really innovative stuff. >> That was cool. >> That's great. Appreciate it. Good
00:38:50
rundown, Sam. Thanks for making the time. Uh, good luck with uh, getting the season underway and we'll talk with you
00:38:56
down the road. Oh, and good luck getting out of here graduating in six weeks. >> I passed your class. I'm I'm I'm
00:39:02
throughout sixth grade. Thanks, >> Sam Ful. Sam Ful, uh, vice president and
00:39:09
general manager of the Philadelphia Phillies, on his way as soon as he graduates to being, um, president of
00:39:15
baseball operations with the Philly Samold. That's been the first half of this week's show. Come back and join us
00:39:21
after the break for the second half. Welcome back. Welcome back to Wharton Moneyball. Welcome to the second half of
00:39:27
this week's show. Just out of break, just off a long conversation with Sam Fold, GM over V, VP and GM over at the
00:39:36
Phillies. Been there a while. Former Major League Baseball player, one of our executive NBA students, about to
00:39:41
graduate. We were um gushing, I think is the technical term about him over the break. Great interview. Enjoyed it. Um
00:39:49
fellas, it's a fun time of year. We've got a few things going on. Let's see how
00:39:55
many rounds of what caught your eye we can go through in this short second half to touch on some of these things.
00:40:02
Gentlemen, one of you want to jump in. What caught your eye? World of sports. >> Yeah, I'll just go quickly. Um I'm
00:40:08
pretty sure in last night's national championship men's game, I'm pretty sure
00:40:13
Michigan played terribly >> for them. For them >> first half for sure. Most of the first
00:40:19
half, >> right? But I'm just saying like Connecticut did a great job. Like I I'm
00:40:25
pretty sure if you I don't make it up like a thousand games were played. This
00:40:29
may have been close to the minimum difference that Michigan wins the game by. And I give Billy Danur
00:40:36
play a thousand times. Yukon's going to win near the minimum. I'm just saying I
00:40:41
think uh I always forget what Dan Hurley. Yeah, Bobb's the other Dan Hurley. I think he did a great job
00:40:47
coaching in that game because they were not the better team and he did a great job and that's what caught my eye is
00:40:53
that I was like, boy, I'm pretty sure Michigan's going to win this game.
00:40:57
Pretty sure. But I don't think they're playing that well and they're they're
00:41:00
obviously in the first half they were missing every shot, but also I'm not even sure they were taking great shots.
00:41:06
It just seemed like they were playing poorly but still winning, which is why I was confident. That's what caught my
00:41:10
eye. Well, on that on that point, we've had examples so far um led especially by
00:41:16
Texas Tech of programs spending money in NIL to buy competitiveness. They famously signed the best softballer in
00:41:26
the country to a $1 million contract two years ago and instantly made the College
00:41:31
World Series for the first time. They spent big in football this past season and instantly made the playoffs. Not
00:41:39
quite instantly. A couple years into that made the playoffs and here comes Michigan. All five starters were
00:41:45
transfers. They spent $10 million. They were only eight and 24 last year. It's
00:41:51
it's going to be the billboard for teams looking for turnarounds. And so you got
00:41:56
to have money, but it seems like you got to have more than that. You got to have
00:41:59
a coach that can put these things together. You've got to the people you go out and sign to these contracts have
00:42:03
to be what you think they are. They have to fit together. Um, so I think we probably do a disservice to Michigan to
00:42:11
say it's just, you know, writing $10 million in checks. But that's one of the
00:42:14
stories that's going to come out of this for sure. And it's going to be too glib
00:42:17
a story, I think. >> Yeah. Also, I just want to point out for those of you that didn't watch, what a
00:42:24
wonderful played women's final as well. UCLA was just incredible in that game
00:42:31
against South Carolina. I mean, if you had told me that UCLA would blow him out, and let's remember South Carolina
00:42:37
is probably the most accomplished program over the last 5 years. I think this is, you know, I forget if it's Dawn
00:42:42
Stilly's third championship game in four years or etc., but I mean, South Carolina has been a extraordinarily
00:42:49
accomplished team. And that was just an ex I mean, I just thought UCLA was an extraordinarily well coached and well
00:42:56
played team. So, I enjoyed both games equally, but for different reasons. Eric, they did the same thing to Texas
00:43:02
in the semis. Um, I turned it on in the fir end of the first quarter and it was 14 to6. The Horns, I think they might
00:43:09
have got another bucket. They might have scored eight in the first quarter, but they had six late in the first quarter.
00:43:14
It's just, and this is Texas is like people thought they were probably the best team in the country coming into the
00:43:19
tournament. Six points in the first quarter. It made me feel so much better when UCLA did that to South Carolina
00:43:25
because they clearly had something special. Okay, Shane, what caught your eye? Well, I should give a shout out to
00:43:30
the Philadelphia uh Flyers, I feel like, who have they're they're still only at
00:43:35
about 50% to make the playoffs, but that is up from like >> Yeah, >> I would say like 15 20% it was like a
00:43:41
week or two ago. They've been on a on a heater as they say. Um and it's been fun
00:43:47
to watch and uh so yeah, I hope I I hope they can keep it up. They're uh like I
00:43:51
said, like I said, it's basically a coin flip at this point. >> So Shane, let's stay with NHL hockey for
00:43:57
a second. Um, you're a a Western guy. I always lose track. They've changed the
00:44:02
names of the conferences. They used to be impossible to know, but they were cool. Now they're Noble, but not cool.
00:44:07
So, you're a Western Conference guy. Calgary, I'm guessing, is going to miss
00:44:11
it again. Edmonton might slide. >> Calgary is definitely going to miss it.
00:44:14
>> Edmonton, you're bitter because they're going to slide in with a better seed
00:44:16
than they should. Is that what you were winging about? Is that what I heard? >> I guess I I'll win. I'll win a little
00:44:23
bit. I mean it's the way and I understand the intention but the way the playoffs in hockey are seed like are are
00:44:28
set for the playoffs is it's basically you compete with within a division. There are wildcard kind of teams that
00:44:35
kind of cross over divisions but essentially the it'll be set up such that the the the you'll you'll you know
00:44:44
probably kind of like you'll have to win within the division to get to the semis.
00:44:48
>> Okay. Um, again with the wild cards, you could technically play some teams out of
00:44:51
division, but regardless that basically, and I'll just point out Western hockey
00:44:56
right now, there's a huge discrepancy between kind of the top teams in this the central division of the West versus
00:45:04
the Pacific Division of the West. The Oilers are heading up the Pacific division of the West at like 87 points
00:45:11
or 88 points or something like that. And then like in the central division you got like Colorado and Dallas and
00:45:18
Minnesota all like at 100 points. >> So it's a huge it's >> you bring up an interesting and
00:45:23
basically one of the three of those teams are probably going to go have to go through each other. Only one of those
00:45:28
three teams will survive to the point where Edmonton will beat them in the semis because they'll be
00:45:33
>> Can you give me a let me ask a question. I know in baseball the answer and I know
00:45:36
in football the answer. >> Yeah. >> Is there an unbalanced schedule in
00:45:39
hockey? Like, do you play the teams in your division more than you play other teams, which I assume probably. Okay.
00:45:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. If that's true, which I'm sure it is, I love the design then of playing
00:45:52
within a division first because if you're all going to benefit possible, let's say, let's take for example in
00:45:57
baseball, they don't do it that way. But let's say the Yankees and the I don't
00:46:02
know the Blue Jays in a given year. Let's say the Red Sox and the Orioles. >> Oh, I see. I see. Well, they're going to
00:46:09
benefit from playing more games against him. Eliminate each other first and then
00:46:13
get out of that division. I actually like that design. >> I mean, it's it's not it's I I mean,
00:46:18
it's always been kind of like organized that way where you kind of and you get
00:46:22
more of a sense of a division winner this way. I I mean, again, I it I don't
00:46:27
I I I don't I don't usually have problems with the design or the general
00:46:32
kind of difference to divisions, but you do get these kind of discrepancies. So I
00:46:37
mean MLB suffers from this when like you know like the central team like you know
00:46:42
somebody's got to win the central and go to the playoffs and it could be a very
00:46:45
different kind of competitive environment compared to the ALE. So I think in in hockey we just happen to
00:46:49
have in the West right now that kind of discrepancy where you're going to have
00:46:54
like essentially the top the top team from the Pacific is is you know regular season wise is way lower than the than
00:47:01
the Central but they you know the Central kind of beat have to play through each other in the playoffs.
00:47:07
Yeah. >> Well, it's always fun to um provoke Shane into some Edmonton Oiler hate, you
00:47:12
know. It's just fun for me. It's like, you know, we we >> hater flows very easily from me these
00:47:19
days, as it turns out. >> Well, it's like asking, you know, a Redskins fan about the Cowboys or or a
00:47:25
Ravens fan about the Steelers. And >> Yankees fan about the Red Sox. >> Yes. So, Shane can play that role.
00:47:30
>> Want to talk about the Red Sox these days, but yeah, >> these days. Okay, I'll give you a quick
00:47:33
one on hockey. We are rolling into the Frozen Four. The semis are on Thursday and the finals on Saturday. Frozen four
00:47:41
competitors this year are Michigan and Denver. These are two titans in the college uh hockey world. Like 10 nine or
00:47:50
10 championships each. And then on the other side, North Dakota and Wisconsin. One fun fact, here's just a little
00:47:56
connection to it for us all. Will Horcuff is a is a forward for the Michigan team. Tall fella. Shane's
00:48:04
recognizing the name. I'm sorry. I think he might have played for the Oilers
00:48:07
again, Shane. I'm throwing more Oilers at you. But Horcuff was his dad, Sean
00:48:11
Horov, was a a forward for a professional teams. He's an assistant general manager for the Wims and he is
00:48:20
one of our uh executive ed students who's getting a degree, a general management degree through exec. So Sean,
00:48:26
Will's dad, has come through our program multiple times. and Will Horov was the
00:48:32
number one pick of the Pittsburgh Penguins last year. And we're often, you know, lauding the Penguins front office
00:48:39
and what Kyle Dubis and those guys run franchise as far as I can tell. >> Exactly. So, I'm on for the I'm on for
00:48:46
Michigan rolling into the Frozen Four. Um, let's do another round. We have time
00:48:50
for one more round. Eric, what else has caught your eye? >> Well, I think we got to talk about the
00:48:54
uh the Masters coming up. I mean, it's uh I think this is as wide open a Masters as I've seen in a while. I mean,
00:49:03
I understand Scotty Sheoffller is still the best player in the world. He is, but
00:49:06
you wouldn't call him on a heater. As a matter of fact, you know, his last couple tournaments, he's played mortal
00:49:12
for Scotty Sheffller. Like, he only came in like 10th or 15th in these tournaments. And so, I think he's
00:49:18
clearly the favorite. He's the betting favorite, but I don't consider him the
00:49:22
overwhelming favorite like in a lot of the tournaments last year. So, that leaves it wide open. I mean, how much
00:49:29
more likely is Mroy to win it now that he's already won one? I understand it's
00:49:34
hard to win two in a row. I mean, the last person to do it was Tiger and so that's a long time ago. That was like
00:49:39
20201. It hasn't happened in 25 years. How, you know, um, that's the question.
00:49:46
Um, >> yeah. And I I I guess maybe maybe we can both kind of think all three of us think
00:49:51
about like >> try and take Tiger the Tiger era out. >> Is this now as like like so the Tiger
00:49:59
era we can agree was the least wide open of all time, you know, in terms of like
00:50:03
the Fab or whatever. But take Tiger out like like you know is it is it do you feel like the current era of golf is
00:50:10
like wide open compared to what it was in like the 90s pre-tiger or do you kind of like feel like like I kind of feel
00:50:17
like um and I I don't watch as much as you guys do but I kind of feel like the
00:50:22
same you know there was even more turnover in terms of tournament winners especially among the majors like back in
00:50:27
the nine like in the pre-tiger era than in the post tiger era. Let me see the following. Uh, Shane, looking at
00:50:34
the odds here, okay? And something just stuck out at me. Of the top 15 people listed here, I'm going to say seven or
00:50:42
eight of them are multiple time major winners. So, Scotty Sheffller, I think, has four majors. John Rom has two.
00:50:51
Bryson Dashambo has two. Roy Moy has six. Xander Schoffé has two. Uh, Colin Morawa has two or three. Brooks Kepka
00:51:00
has six. Jordan Speath has four. So my comment is the thing I'm excited about
00:51:06
on Sunday with any of those guys or multiple of those guys. They've all won it before. Not necessarily the Masters,
00:51:14
but they've won multiple majors. So the idea here is not like there's one guy
00:51:19
with all the majors. It's not like there's >> Alarazz. Oh, there's 10 guys I just listed that
00:51:25
have won multiple majors, not even just one. >> No. But I mean I think that's a great
00:51:30
kind of statistic for kind of capturing wide open or like you know wide openness. It's just now historically it
00:51:36
would be interesting to calculate that statistic kind of through the years watch it dip when Tiger was one and
00:51:42
everything obviously and then but again like are we kind of like I wonder again in in in in sort of uh historically if
00:51:49
you thought about like you you just listed off what like six seven people that have won like have multiple like
00:51:55
you know the the statistic is number of current golfers with multiple majors won
00:52:01
and I kind of wondered what what that stat that value looks like kind of through golf history
00:52:08
>> I guess specifically like n like kind of immediately pre-tiger versus post tiger.
00:52:13
>> Well, you're also talking post uh Nicholas Watson. I suppose those were
00:52:17
the legends that kind of they dipped before Tiger Rose and there was this in between the David Dval David Dval
00:52:24
moment. >> Greg Norman would Greg Norman was one of the Nick Fo would count in that same
00:52:30
thing obviously. Um, so that's a concentration of the top talent in golf is an interesting question, Shane. We
00:52:36
could operationalize it in a few ways. Uh, are there any names that you're especially curious about? I just just to
00:52:41
pimp one of our common our frequent guests, Dan Rapaore is one of the great follows on golf these days and Dan wrote
00:52:49
a piece rating had not just rating but commenting on all 91 players. This is a fun interesting thing about
00:52:56
>> reading those >> small fields. Masters is the smallest field because they've got 911 and that
00:53:00
includes the old guys who get in just because they they won. >> Freddy Couples is playing Anal Cabrera,
00:53:05
BJ Sting. They're not winning. >> Is Mike still playing? >> Mike We still Canadian legend
00:53:13
Jose Maria Olafabel. These guys are still playing. >> Yeah. >> And Rapor gave all of those guys a
00:53:18
paragraph. I never thought I was interested in reading all 91 and I just read all 91. A couple that stood out to
00:53:23
me were Schoffé. He's playing apparently real well these days and this would be
00:53:28
the third leg of a career grand slam for him. Think Matt Fitzpatrick is someone that's due in in some ways. Um and you
00:53:37
know I was think oh Dshambo is just he's just really strong player hasn't he's
00:53:45
he's Rapor said that he's learned over time how to dial it down a little bit
00:53:49
for the Masters at Augusta and I think above the big names I think he might be the one that I would put the most on and
00:53:56
then on the other side he talked about Morocawa just came up injured um and uh I think he came up injured at the
00:54:03
players >> it's a shame because he was playing really well. >> Exactly. Um but then also Justin Rose
00:54:09
would be an all-time favorite. Rose is still playing at whatever 40 and well into his 40s. He's famously great about
00:54:16
his health and he's just been at it for so long. I remember him as a kid at the
00:54:20
British Open playing as an amateur I think and doing really well. >> He's come in second like four or five
00:54:24
times last year. He lost to Tiger once in second like in playoff last year to Rory. He might be the single most uh the
00:54:33
strongest sentimental favorite for the weekend. So good good fun going in. And by the way, little advertisement for
00:54:38
next week. We have a guest, a former student, we happen to be on a student run, no just by coincidence, who is
00:54:46
running analytics in at the highest levels of golf and she's partnering with
00:54:51
the high biggest names in golf and she's in Augusta for the weekend and we're
00:54:55
going to talk with her about the tournament and what she's doing and some of her partnerships on Tuesday next
00:54:59
week. Why don't we let it sit there fellas? That's been almost an hour here.
00:55:05
A good quick rundown. Um, more to come in future weeks. But that's it for this
00:55:11
week for the team here. Shane Jensen and Eric Bradlo here through the end with us. Audi Winer who had to run and catch
00:55:17
a train for Dion Simpkins who makes this whole thing go round week after week. Our producer Murena and the big boss De
00:55:24
Patel who does things like pull fantastic guests out of thin air as she did this week. Thank you Dee. Thank you
00:55:31
guys for listening. Come back and join us next time. Between now and then, enjoy your sports.