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Hi, this is Matthew Bradsky with
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Knowledge at Wharton. We're here to talk
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with Erica Dewan, co-author of Get Big
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Things Done: The Power of Connectional
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Intelligence. Um, Erica is a strategist
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and researcher and a former Wall Street
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banker who comes to us with degrees from
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Wharton, Harvard, and MIT. In her new
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book, Erica describes a new 21st century
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skill that she calls connectional
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intelligence, where people can combine
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the power of ambition, knowledge, and
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human capital to achieve great things.
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My first question for you is about the
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concept of connectional intelligence.
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Um, I gather you've been researching it
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perhaps since you graduated Wharton as
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an undergrad. Why did you come to
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connectional intelligence and how has
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your understanding of it evolved over
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time? Great question, Matt. So, I uh
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grew up in a family of immigrants. I'm
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the daughter of two Indian immigrants
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and um like many immigrant children, I
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wanted to check off all the boxes of the
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of success. I went to Wharton undergrad
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and I um went into a great job on Wall
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Street afterwards. And during that time
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I also worked through the 2008
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recession. And uh through that
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experience I really began to witness uh
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a sense of disillusionment, confusion
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and burnout among the millennial
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generation which was the generation that
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I was a part of. And like many other
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millennials I worked incredibly hard.
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But at the same time I saw that there
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was an underlying desire for greater
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meaning in our work and finding new ways
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um to find passion and purpose. And that
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led me to actually entirely switch gears
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and I spent a series of years studying
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uh the next wave the next generation's
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desires and how they were desiring to
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work in today's world um both in the
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midst of the financial crisis but also
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at a time where we saw a rise in social
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technologies like Facebook, Twitter and
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LinkedIn. And what I began to see is
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that from um someone who worked in
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private equity to an NGO leader, many of
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the struggles were quite similar. And
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they were really struggles related to
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how to navigate the noise of social
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media in our overconnected world and and
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cut through and really find purpose and
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meaning. And at that point, I really
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began to dig in into this idea of how we
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could connect intelligently in today's
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world. And that led me um to meet my
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co-author renowned business strategist
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Saj Nicole Jonai uh in who's also a CEO
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adviser. And together what we realized
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is that there is this underlying
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capacity what we call connectional
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intelligence that anyone really can
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harness in today's world. And the key
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question today is not about how do we
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obtain more networks and more
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connections but the key question today
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is how do we connect intelligently and
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harness the connectedness available to
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all of us to get big things done and
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that's what led to the journey of
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writing the book with Saj Nicole Jonai
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interesting um you you mentioned in the
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book that connectional intelligence has
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been with us for generations uh you know
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historically great thinkers like Ben
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Franklin and folks like Florence
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Nightingale had connectional
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intelligence. Um, why is it more
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relevant than ever? Great question. So,
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connectional intelligence as we
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described in the book isn't new. The
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great leader of our time from Ben
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Franklin as you said, Florence
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Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi, uh, all had
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great connectional intelligence. But
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what we discovered is that the scale,
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depth and breadth of our connection is
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radically different in today's world.
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And that has not only allowed great
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inventors, artists, social activists to
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create change using connectional
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intelligence, but it has allowed young
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people, um, farmers, plumbers, um,
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surfers to use their connectional
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intelligence to bring together
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communities, ideas, and disciplines in
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ways that never were imaginable just
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even 10 to 15 years ago. And it it's
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really that rise of connectional
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intelligence that really led us to write
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this book and really show how anyone
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anywhere can leverage the connectedness
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available to us to get big things done.
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How is the concept different than you
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know what business people think of as
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their networks or as networking?
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So about 10 years ago, Malcolm Gladwell
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actually uh described the concept of
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there are three types of um people that
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help create great networks and create a
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vibrant social epidemics. And they're
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the salesperson, the mavens, and the
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connectors. And really now if we think
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about the word connector um it's often
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being labeled as really a term that's
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targeted towards building large networks
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or using networks as building
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relationships. But in today's world what
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we realized is that concept of a
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connector is in need of an update. And
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the concept is not just about how do you
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become a connector but really how do you
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use connection to get big things done in
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a radically different way. And the
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concept of connectional intelligence
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actually is broadening the idea of a
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connector to move beyond building
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networks just as building a a web of
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social assets or capital. And it's
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really allowing anyone to think about
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how how one can build that web to
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actually lead to measurable change to
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actually translate into outcomes. So
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what we're really guiding people to is
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not the question of quantity of
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networks. Um how many Twitter followers
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do you have, how many fakes Facebook
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likes do you have, but we're moving to
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the question of the quality of networks
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and how can you build the quality of
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networks to get big things done. In our
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book, we actually talk about that there
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are three types of connectors in today's
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world. We talk about Heather connectors
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that are thinkers. Thinkers are those
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that have high curiosity and bring ideas
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together in groundbreaking new ways. Um
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the second type of a connector is an
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enabler. Those are people that forge
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communities and create the structures
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and forces to get big things done. And
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the third type of a connector is a
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connection executor. These are the
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people that mobilize all the resources
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to get to get big things done. And so
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what began 10 years ago as a concept
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around networking and building networks
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has now emerged to a much more broadened
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view of how connections can be leveraged
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from many different levels. You use the
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term bewildering store of knowledge in
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the book and and how we're able now to
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access that store of knowledge and
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wisdom, humanity's collective um wisdom
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and knowledge. Um what would you say to
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somebody though who argues that that
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might not necessarily be a good thing
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that having all this access can create
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too much noise um too much confusion or
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that say the internet is you know bears
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too many risks than rewards.
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So I think it's an incredibly important
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question and the we are living in an
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unprecedented time in history where we
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are all connected through social media,
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through mobile devices, through online
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communities and like any human capacity,
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the rise of connectional intelligence is
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allowing for greatness and it's allowing
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also for a lot of crowd noise um and a
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lot of distraction many times from what
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might matter most. And what I would say
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to that is when we think about
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connectional intelligence, what we're
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really talking about is a human skill
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that anyone can use. And I the best way
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to uh to describe this is the difference
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between collective intelligence which is
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really this idea of leveraging crowd
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wisdom and all the wisdom available to
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us to as compared to connectional
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intelligence which is the I the idea
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that we have an ability to combine
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knowledge, ambition and human capital to
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forge connections on a global scale to
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create unprecedented value and meaning.
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And so as we think about our world that
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can be very noisy at times um and um and
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the idea of crowdsourcing is allowing us
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to scan and source lots of ideas. Um
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that doesn't necessarily mean that
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they'll be the right ideas or they'll
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help us achieve our goals. What we
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actually need is to combine the crown
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wisdom with connectional intelligence
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which is the idea that we actually many
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of the greatest breakthroughs come from
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small interconnected teams that may not
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actually um be connected with the
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largest crowds but may have enough
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diversity of interests of disciplines of
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worldviews to get something big done.
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Why would you say millennials are best
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positioned to take advantage of this?
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So I would say that in today's world we
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are um as as we've seen in the past 10
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to 15 years um the millennial generation
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has been raised of an in an age of only
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hyperconivity and this has really
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allowed um the millennial generation to
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not only be able to be native to new
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ways of working to connective capacities
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but also use it in really unique ways to
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scan and source ideas to solve problems
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um through disperate networks to
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leverage ideas like social media. Um but
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what I would also say is that
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connectional intelligence is not uh
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specific to the millennial generation.
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What we found in our book is that this
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capacity and this force is available to
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all of us. And in my work with my
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co-author Sashnikol Jonai, we found
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stories of a pumpkin farmer um who in
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his 60s grew the world's largest pumpkin
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using connectional intelligence in ways
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uh by connecting with small groups and
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leveraging a website called
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bigpumpkins.com and connecting with a
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community of scientists. Um, we also
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talk about a story called the Granny
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Cloud, which is a community of
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grandmothers in the UK and a Australia
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who Skype weekly with Indian children.
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And what's really interesting about that
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is they're working with these children
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across the globe around fluency in
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English. But more interesting, something
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that really is interesting that came out
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of that is that these grandmothers feel
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connected to each other as part of this
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comm community in as part of this
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community in ways that they never were
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before. Um, and we've also looked into
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studies that show that video interaction
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can make a huge difference for elder
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populations as cognitive abilities
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decline. So what we found is that while
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millennials may be native in connection,
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we can all use connectional
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intelligence. But what what also is key
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is that we have to leverage millennials
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connectional intelligence oftentimes in
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our workplaces to generate new ideas to
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solve problems and make sure that we
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don't squash their connectional
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intelligence um to adapt to more
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traditional ways of working.
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you you shared a lot of great stories in
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the book um to illustrate how
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individuals are accessing that
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connectional intelligence and you you
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mentioned a couple uh earlier in in the
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previous question.
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Um are there one or two other favorite
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examples you can share? Absolutely. One
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of my favorite stories is the story of a
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woman named Jeanie Peeper. Uh Jeanie for
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many years struggled with a very rare
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disease called FOB. And for a long time
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she um scoured um many different
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doctor's offices to try to diagnose the
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illness. But about 10 years ago, Jeanie
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decided to do something very different.
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She created the first ever Facebook
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group and email newsletter for anyone
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around the world that had FOB. This
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brought hundreds of people together that
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had this illness. And for the first time
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ever, Genie was able to create a
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knowledge network around this very rare
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disease because patients were globally
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connected in a way that they had never
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been before. Uh soon enough from that um
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Genie and this small interconnected
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group was able to fund medical research
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for the rare disease and also um they've
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created a community now that is teaching
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doctors ways to better diagnose the
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illness. And what I find so powerful
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about the story of Genie Peeper is that
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connectional intelligence is not a tool
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just for the rich or the business people
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or for the most successful. It's really
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a tool for anyone that has an idea or a
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passion or wants to make meaning around
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something and is willing to open
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themselves up to new people and ideas.
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And by doing that, amazing possibilities
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emerge. And what we found through so
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many stories just like genies are just
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that when we open ourselves up to new
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ideas, to new communities, to new ways
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of working, oftentimes some of the
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greatest ideas are from the places we
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least expect it. You know, that said, um
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you mention in the book how companies,
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corporations, big organizations can also
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benefit from connectional intelligence.
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Um for instance, Green Exchange was one
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example. Um can you go a little bit into
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that um specifically as well as in
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general how big organizations can
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benefit? Absolutely. I think there is a
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huge opportunity in frontier for
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organizations to harness the
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connectional intelligence of their
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employees. One of the great examples uh
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that we featured in the book is the
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story of innocent and Colgate. A few
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years ago Colgate had a big science
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problem. and they had a new fluoride
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that they were trying to mesh in their
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toothpaste and all the best chemists
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were working on mixing the fluoride and
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the toothpaste together, but it wasn't
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mixing well and it was getting clogged
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up in the equipment. And while all the
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best chemists were trying to figure this
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out for months, for some reason it was
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not getting fixed. And so what uh uh
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Colgate decided to do is they decided to
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post this question, this problem onto a
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crowdsourcing site called Innocentive,
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which is a community of inventors that
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are scouring um the the website to help
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solve problems that companies are
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facing. And so they posted this question
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onto the site and within days a
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physicist named Ed Melkerik uh posted an
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answer and his answer was that this
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problem wasn't a chemistry problem. It
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was a physics problem. It was about
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charged particles. You charged the
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fluoride, charged the toothpaste and
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instantly the problem was solved. And so
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what began as a month-long monthsl long
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problem for Colgate was solved in such a
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short span by leveraging a new community
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in a very different way. But the flip
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side to that story is that Ed Melkarik
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the physicist was someone who may not
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have typically ever been hired by
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Colgate. So a big piece of understanding
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connectional intelligence is
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understanding one how to use it to
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acquire and find great talent but
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secondly how to access networks outside
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your company's existing ecosystem to
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reach customers in new ways to solve
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scientific problems to mobilize and sell
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a product in new categories and beyond.
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What's the story of green exchange? So
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the story of green exchange is green and
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Nike had decided to release 400 patents
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um to companies that would be willing to
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use those patents for environmentally
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sustainable use um and non-competitive
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use. So, an interesting um story that
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came out of Green Exchange is that when
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Nike launched Green Exchange, one of the
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things that happened is a mountain
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biking company decided to use one of
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Nike's rubber patents in their tires.
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And it led to immense savings for the
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company. But what it also really led to
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is an entire community that was coming
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together in a very different way and
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really shifting the notion of what
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intellectual property has meant for so
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many years. The other great thing that
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happened out of Green Exchange is many
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other companies like Best Buy and
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Creative Commons began to follow on and
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began to also share some of their
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patents for sustainable use with other
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companies. Interesting. Um, you know,
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you hear the word disruption a lot in
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the the business media these days. What
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traditional power structures and
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industries will connectional
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intelligence disrupt? I would say that
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connectional intelligence is a capacity
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that when used well uh by employees, by
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customers, by manufacturers can disrupt
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any industry truly. And the way that
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I'll describe that is um actually the
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best story, one of my favorite stories
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from the book is a story of Ben Kaufman
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who was the founder of Quirky. Um and
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quirky um originated when Ben Kaufman
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asked the question, why does it take two
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and a half years to design and
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manufacture a potato peeler by a kitchen
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wear company in today's world? Why is
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the why is the length from the beginning
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design phase to the distribution uh so
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long? And what he created was a
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community called Quirky where they it's
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a large community of inventors that
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every month they they vote on two
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inventions that they are going to design
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and manufacture that month. They have
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inventors from all over the world that
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vote for these ideas that come together.
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Um they have an entire community in New
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York uh that designs and manufactures
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these inventions. And then today they
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have partnerships with companies like
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Home Depot and General Electric to
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actually accelerate the supply chain in
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a way that wasn't possible ever before.
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And what I think is the real powerful
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connectional intelligence aspect to that
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is how Ben Kaufman really asks the
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question, how can we open up the this
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process to a community of inventors that
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typically aren't asked by a large
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company to help solve a problem to help
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bring in an idea to help manufacture the
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idea and bring it to scale and I think
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that just that story is is one small
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example but there are many others that
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we're seeing in how businesses is
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disrupting
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when people are using their connectional
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intelligence in new ways. It's very
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inspirational stuff. Um, and the last
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part of the book is a handbook where
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people can take what they've learned in
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the earlier sections of the book and
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apply them to their own lives, their
00:19:07
businesses. Um, you know, for our
00:19:10
viewers now, what are a couple of the
00:19:13
takeaways that after reading your book
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and learning about connectional
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intelligence that they can apply right
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away to their lives and their
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businesses? Yes. So, the handbook is my
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favorite part of Get Big Things Done.
00:19:25
And it's a mix of a quiz, a manager
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guide, an application, set of tools for
00:19:31
you to assess how you can use your own
00:19:33
connectional intelligence at work and
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how you can leverage a group of people's
00:19:37
connectional intelligence to get
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something big done. I would say that the
00:19:41
the biggest impact of the handbook and
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and lessons for readers are one um to
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really think very critically about the
00:19:50
quality of connections that you're
00:19:52
building, not just the quantity. And the
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idea that networks don't simply lead to
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measurable change. And so one of the
00:20:00
first things in the handbook is we help
00:20:02
you assess what type of connectionally
00:20:05
intelligent person are you? Are you a
00:20:07
thinker? Someone that brings together
00:20:08
ideas? Are you an enabler, the person
00:20:11
that likes to build community around
00:20:13
those ideas? Or are you a connection
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executor? Someone that really can
00:20:17
mobilize resources in action to get big
00:20:20
things done. And once you really
00:20:22
understand how you are a connector in
00:20:24
today's world, because I truly believe
00:20:26
that we're all connectors in many
00:20:27
different forms, then you can understand
00:20:30
how do you build the resources around
00:20:32
you to help leverage both your strengths
00:20:36
and also leverage areas where you not
00:20:38
might not be as strong in. Um, so one
00:20:41
thing we found is um if you you might be
00:20:44
an introvert and if you're an introvert
00:20:46
that doesn't mean that you're not using
00:20:47
connectional intelligence but you might
00:20:49
be using it in a different way. You may
00:20:51
be using it um to write blogs or share
00:20:53
on Twitter or to connect ideas um
00:20:57
together and by doing that you may be a
00:20:59
thinker but what you could do is maybe
00:21:02
connect or reach out to connection
00:21:03
executors that may have a different set
00:21:05
of resources and tools to get something
00:21:07
big done. So I think on the highest
00:21:10
level it's one think critically about
00:21:12
the networks that you build the quality
00:21:15
uh not just the quantity two assessing
00:21:18
what type of connector you are and three
00:21:20
how you can use and leverage those
00:21:22
around you that have different skills in
00:21:24
order to get big things done. Erica it's
00:21:27
been a pleasure to talk with you and I
00:21:28
just have one last question for you. How
00:21:30
do you plan to use connectional
00:21:32
intelligence to promote your book about
00:21:34
connectional intelligence?
00:21:36
That is a great question and I would say
00:21:39
that we are using connectional
00:21:41
intelligence entirely in in our work to
00:21:43
promote the book. One of the big ways
00:21:45
we're doing it is we're doing a Twitter
00:21:47
series where we're doing a countdown
00:21:49
where we're asking people to share by
00:21:52
take the quiz and actually share back
00:21:54
with us what type of connectionally
00:21:56
intelligent person they are. Um, so we
00:21:58
can really have a dialogue online both
00:22:01
through blogging and on Twitter to talk
00:22:03
about how people are not only assessing
00:22:05
their own connectional intelligence but
00:22:07
using it in action. And we hope to
00:22:10
continue to build stories of those that
00:22:12
are using their own connectional
00:22:13
intelligence and featuring these stories
00:22:15
on the web. Erica, again, it's been a
00:22:17
pleasure to talk with you and and thank
00:22:19
you for for the interview. Best of luck
00:22:22
with your book release. Thank you.
00:22:28
[Music]
