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- Welcome, everyone. I
am Itay Goldstein, Professor of
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Finance at the Wharton School at
the University of Pennsylvania.
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I'm also the chair of the
Finance Department. And this is
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<i>The Future of Finance</i> podcast.
This is our second season. In
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the first season, we talked
about general directions of the
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future of finance, and fintech
was one of these directions. In
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this second season, we are
focusing on cryptocurrencies and
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digital assets. And in this
episode, we're going to talk
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about stablecoins, and also the
relation of stablecoins to
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Central Bank digital currencies,
or CBDCs.
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For those of you who are not
familiar with the term, stablecoins
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are a type of cryptocurrency.
But unlike other
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cryptocurrencies, which are
fluctuating a lot up and down in
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value, looking sometimes like a
roller coaster, the point of a
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stablecoin is to maintain
stability, as the name suggests.
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And the idea is really to have
something that can replace
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money. And in order to do that,
stablecoins are going to tie
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their value to a stable asset,
stable currency, like a fiat
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currency. For our conversation
today, I'm very excited. We have
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the ideal guest. We have Heath
Talbert, who is now the
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president of Circle.
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As you know, Circle has its
flagship product, which is the
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USDC, the US dollar coin, which
is one of the leading stablecoins
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pegged to the US dollar.
Heath has a long history in
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financial regulation in the financial
industry, and he was also the
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former chair of the Commodity
Futures Trading Commission. He's
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also a lecturer here at the
University of Pennsylvania
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Kerry Law School. Heath,
welcome.
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My pleasure. Great to
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be here at <i>The Future of
Finance</i>. - Thank you. It's great
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to have you. So we have a lot to
discuss, so let's dive right in.
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First of all, we are recording
this just a few weeks after the
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successful IPO of Circle earlier
this summer, so I think it's
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appropriate to start from that
and ask you, how do you feel
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about this IPO?
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Well, thank you.
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The IPO was something that
Circle had long been planning.
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And the reason is is, you know,
one of the things that Circle
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stands behind is our focus on
trust and transparency. So we do
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that, and we'll talk a little
bit about that with our stable-
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coin that you mentioned, USDC.
But we have always strongly
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believed that sort of the
marquee level of that
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transparency is to be a publicly
listed company that has the
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disclosures, has the controls,
has the governance. So it was a
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long process to get through to
become a public company, and we
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are, of course, delighted that
it occurred a little more than a
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month ago. And so we are very
pleased. We've gotten a little
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bit of rest, but ultimately we
have pivoted almost entirely now
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on execution, making sure that
we are focused on building the
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world's largest and most widely
used stablecoin network.
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Yes, I think it was a big
success, and certainly drew a lot of
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attention to Circle and to the
key product, and we're going to
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talk more about that. Just to
think about, how did you end up
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with Circle and with stablecoin?
You had an inspiring career at
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the intersection of law and
finance and regulation, public
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policy, including, of course,
the appointment as the chair of
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the CFTC. How did you end up
working with digital assets and
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stablecoins?
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Yeah, so it's a
great question. I certainly
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didn't plan my career when I
graduated from the University of
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Pennsylvania in— 25 years ago,
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about that time, 24 years ago—
to get into this field. Because,
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of course, it wasn't invented.
The internet was around. But the
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third generation of the internet
that has blockchain technology,
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of course, hadn't been invented
yet. And I'm not even sure
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people were even— even discussing
its possibility.
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But I would say about a decade
ago, I started hearing about
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Bitcoin. And about eight years
ago or so, seven, eight years
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ago, I went into the United
States government, as you
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mentioned, first as Assistant
Secretary of the Treasury and
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later as CFTC chair. And we
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had to confront, well, what is
this technology? What does it do,
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and how does it intersect
with traditional finance and its
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regulation? And it was there
that I discovered how important
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and how potentially
transformational this entire
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field is. And it's essentially
the fact that this is the next
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generation of the internet. A
generation of the internet that
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can actually not just simply move
packets of information and data,
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but can actually move value. And
so just like the Internet has—
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has sort of had confluence with
other industries that we're very
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familiar with, the finance
industry, in some ways, was sort
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of the last industry that the
internet could could merge and
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connect with. But it's
blockchain technology and the
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underlying cryptography that
actually makes that possible.
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And so when I sort of figured
out that big "aha" moment, it
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became something that I became
very interested in, at a
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somewhat technical level, but
also really at a policy level.
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That this really is, I
think, a large part,
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as the show is called, of "the
future of finance." So it
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intrigued me. I was interested
in it, and then a few years
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later, I was out in the private
sector. I had an opportunity to make
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a career change. And I
thought about, wow, this is an
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area— and this was in the midst
of the— and we could talk about
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that a little later— this was
actually in the midst of the
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crypto winter.
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So, crypto was not doing
well. And I had to make a
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decision, you know, do I
sort of go into this field,
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given the fact that in some ways
it was at its nadir, at least at
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the time. And my view was,
ultimately, this stuff is not
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going away. The technology is
not going away. We may have bad
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actors, just like we had bad
actors with the railroads, with
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the initial version of the
internet, and we had bubbles and
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all sorts of things. But
ultimately, that underlying—
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anytime there's a technological
transformation of this
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magnitude, it's going to have an
impact if the right people are
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at the table and the right
business plan is put in place.
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So I got to know Circle, because
I asked myself the question,
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who's actually going to make
this possible? And more
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importantly, in some ways, who's
going to do it the right way?
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Who is going to do it in an
ethical, law abiding manner?
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Apart from the fact that
sometimes the laws are not
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entirely clear. And Circle
answered those questions for me,
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so that's how I ended up there.
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So let's take a step back and
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try to understand exactly what
stablecoin is, how it is
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generating value to consumers,
to investors. What is different
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between stablecoin and other
cryptocurrencies? Everyone heard
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about Bitcoin and I believe
Ethereum. So where is
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stablecoin— and your particular
stablecoin, USDC— where is it
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different from other
cryptocurrencies? Where is the
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value coming from?
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Yeah, and I
think you explained it really
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well in the beginning. A stablecoin,
in many ways, is just a
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tokenized real world asset. The
vast majority of them are fiat
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currencies, and the vast
majority of those are the US
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dollar. And so it's essentially
taking the dollar— in our case,
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with USDC— and putting it into
an internet-native form so it
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can be sent as easily as an
email or a text message. So it's
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essentially digitizing or
tokenizing, if you will, the
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dollar, so you can send that
dollar across blockchains. In
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some ways, it's just taking
something we already know, in
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this case, the US dollar, and
figuring out, how do we get that
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dollar value onto blockchain?
That differs from other digital
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assets, or so called
cryptocurrencies, which in some
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ways are native to this new
economy, this new world. So for
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example, there's Ethereum, which
is the blockchain, and Ether is
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the native token that's on that
chain. And so you need Ether to
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pay gas fees and to do other
things, to be able to move
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transit, to conduct transactions
on the particular blockchain.
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And so the value of that
particular token is in some ways
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tied to, obviously, just general
supply and demand, but also kind
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of the view on Ethereum and its
growth, etc.
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But it sufficiently
decentralized the exchange that
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there is— there's fundamental
changes in supply and demand
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each and every day. But it is a
new concept, a new source of
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value, that is native to the
internet. Whereas what USDC does
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is it just sort of takes the US
dollar and puts it in this new
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internet financial system. So
there's not any— there's not the
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sort of volatility that there is
when you're dealing with these other
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assets. So the way I look at it
is, stablecoins are essentially,
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in most cases, fiat
currencies that are put onto the
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blockchain, whereas these other
digital assets are new asset
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classes entirely.
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I see. And
obviously, when we think about
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the stability that stablecoins
is supposed to bring to the
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system, we think about
traditional vehicles like banks
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and money market funds. And
investors were always drawn to
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them because of the stability.
Investors like to know that when
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they put money in, they can take
the same amount of money out
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with some return.
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And the question then is, what
is the difference? Where is
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stablecoin going to depart from the
traditional vehicles like banks
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and money market funds?
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Yeah. So
first of all, it's really
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important to draw a distinction
that a stablecoin is meant to,
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as you said, represent the
underlying money. It is a new
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form factor of, in our case with
USDC, the dollar itself. So it
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is not meant to, like a money
market fund, or like a bank
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account, be any kind of
investment. Or, as the SEC says,
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or the Supreme Court said in the
Howey Test, which defines what's
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a security for purposes of the
SEC, it's not meant to have an
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expectation of a return. So it
is not an investment product.
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Now that said, you can create
tokenized versions of money
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market funds and tokenized,
perhaps even at some point,
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tokenized versions of bank
accounts. But the stablecoin is
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meant inherently to be more
conservative in that it
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doesn't pay any kind of yield.
So that is a major difference.
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And so that alone, I think,
makes it— and we'll talk perhaps
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about regulation and some of the
other major safeguards, but that
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alone is a major distinction.
It's not paying off any kind of
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yield. It's for you to use as
effectively digital cash.
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Right. And, you know, I spent a large
part of my academic career and
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research thinking about
financial fragility.
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And what we all know from banks
and money market funds, maybe
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more recently, is that they give
you this promise of stability,
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but then in the way that they're
trying to maintain stability,
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there is a lot of trust. And you
need to trust that it's going to
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be stable, and you need to trust
that everyone else thinks it's
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going to be stable. But then the
problem is that this trust can
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be broken, depending on how the
process works and what is the
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underlying asset, what is the
triggering shock, potentially.
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But we do find ourselves in
episodes where all of a sudden
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there is no stability anymore
and everyone is running to take
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the money out as quickly as
possible. We have seen some
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episodes like that in the short
history of stablecoin already,
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but we have seen a lot,
obviously, with banks and money
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market funds. So how worried are
you about the prospect of a run,
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and how worried do you think
investors should be about that?
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Yeah. So I think, given the fact
that there are no uniform laws
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and standards out there
governing stablecoins, and
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there's not even rules as to
what can back a stablecoin, I
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think there is a chance of runs
on various stablecoins, and
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we've seen that. So for example,
we've seen Terra Luna, which was
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an algorithmic stablecoin. It
was an experiment about
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algorithms. And ultimately that
experiment clearly failed, and
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you're 100% right— and you've
done tremendous research in this
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field, which everyone
should read. Which is,
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you know, ultimately, the
quality and liquidity of
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the assets backing it is a key
part. The transparency of the
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assets backing a particular—
you know, in our case, stable-
00:14:11
coins, is important. And also
some degree of regulatory
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certainty. And we don't
really have that uniformly in
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the United States and throughout
the world. Circle is regulated
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by the New York DFS, the New
York Department of Financial
00:14:27
Services. And so all of those
things are addressed in a pretty
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fundamental way. They're— USDC is
backed one-for-one with very,
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very high quality liquid assets.
Essentially treasuries or
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short term treasuries like T-
bills, within— you know, within
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three months. Essentially cash
and cash-like equivalents,
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really. But not all stablecoins
are backed by those assets. And
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when you have that maturity
mismatch— and you even have this
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with money market funds, where
they can invest in a
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lot less conservative things— I
think your chances of run risk
00:15:03
are much higher. Transparency is
absolutely critical as well.
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Circle has always published, or
at least— at least recently, has
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published an audited financial
attestations that show you
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exactly what's in our reserves.
And also, you want to make sure
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that there's a degree of
regulation, so you know that
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they're supervised. So in our
case, we're supervised by New
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York DFS. But the Genius Act is
potentially becoming law. And my
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hope is by the time this airs,
it will be law. And that even
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requires a federal regulatory
regime for those that are over
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10 billion or more in issuance.
So I think all those factors
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need to be there to reduce the
possibility of runs, which is
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very important. And my view is
it's absolutely critically
00:15:50
important that this be done,
because otherwise the new
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internet financial system, this
third generation of the
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internet, where the financial
system and the internet are sort
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of— become intertwined and
merged— is not going to take off
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if we have this massive loss of
confidence, not to mention the
00:16:06
fact that consumers and all
sorts of other folks are going
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to be hurt.
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Yes. And of course, one episode
that we had
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just over two years ago, with the
collapse of Silicon Valley Bank—
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you had some exposure to that,
because you held deposits in
00:16:26
Silicon Valley Bank. And there
was a moment where it looked
00:16:30
like trust is going to be broken
in your currency. And the
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question is, are there lessons
learned from that? Was that just
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an episode in the past, and
going forward, we're not going
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to be exposed to this?
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Yeah,
it's a terrific question. So as
00:16:48
you said, we had some of our
reserves in the time at Silicon
00:16:52
Valley Bank. And people have
often said, "Well, we're worried
00:16:55
about crypto hurting the banks."
This was the exact opposite.
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This was a situation where the
traditional banking system
00:17:02
threatened the digital asset
market space, because we had a
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pocket of our reserves in that
bank. Very important lessons
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were, I think, ensuring that
that there are uniform
00:17:16
regulations and that banks can
accept
00:17:20
cash from stablecoin issuers.
Now, of course, the vast
00:17:24
majority of our cash is held at
globally systemically important
00:17:28
banks, as disclosed in our
financial statements. But
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back in that time, a few years
ago, banks were told not to take
00:17:36
stablecoin issuer money, not to
take any crypto money, and so
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you had this situation where
stablecoin issuers like
00:17:42
ourselves had to put, responsibly,
our cash somewhere, and the only
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banks where you could
potentially place it were these—
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were these sort of banks that
catered to the industry. So I
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think having digital assets
become mainstream, allowing the
00:17:56
larger banks to do it, and
having a federal regulation will
00:18:00
make this a lot more important.
The other thing to realize, of
00:18:04
course, is that during that
period, there was dislocation in
00:18:08
the secondary markets. In other
words, people out there were
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saying, "Hmm, I want to make— you
know, I'm a little worried about
00:18:14
USDC, because some of the
reserves were in Silicon Valley
00:18:17
Bank." At no point did Circle
say they were worth anything
00:18:21
less than $1. In fact, we— we made
very clear at the time— I wasn't
00:18:25
at the company, but the company
made very clear, they remain
00:18:28
redeemable one-for-one. So what
ended up happening was a lot of
00:18:32
these trading firms went out
there. They scooped up USDC, and
00:18:36
they brought it to Circle
because they had Circle accounts
00:18:38
to redeem it one-for-one. So
they— they made out quite well.
00:18:42
But in the future, we want to
make sure that situation doesn't
00:18:46
occur and we don't have
secondary market dislocations,
00:18:49
even if a company like Circle
continues to stand by its peg.
00:18:54
So when you're thinking about
the future of the stablecoin
00:18:57
industry, do you see uniformity
in that all the stablecoins are
00:19:03
going to adopt the same
practices? Or do you see some
00:19:07
taking more risk and having
potentially more exposure to
00:19:11
runs, and others are taking less
risk and having less exposure to run?
00:19:15
We have advocated for
uniform federal standards, just
00:19:19
like they've done in the
European Union under MiCA, where
00:19:23
stablecoins are held to very
conservative standards that are
00:19:26
implemented uniformly. Because, again, the
00:19:30
risk— stablecoins should not be
risky. Stablecoins should be
00:19:34
the equivalent of a digital
cash. So when you want to send
00:19:36
money as easily as you send an
email, you have to depend that
00:19:41
that dollar continues to be $1.
So our position has always been
00:19:46
to have a pretty conservative
standard that the US Congress
00:19:51
now appears to be adopting, that
is applied to everyone, and that
00:19:55
if you do want to have assets
that maybe take a little bit
00:19:58
more risk, that maybe pay the
00:20:00
holder of that asset a
yield, they are different kinds
00:20:04
of instruments, and some of
those may be securities, and
00:20:06
they should be regulated
accordingly. So, for example,
00:20:09
Circle has a tokenized money
market fund, which, at the time
00:20:13
we took it over, was the world's
largest, and that does pay a
00:20:17
yield. That does have assets that
that may be somewhat different
00:20:21
in kind, or at least they're not
held to the same standards as
00:20:25
our stablecoin reserves, but
that offers investors an
00:20:28
opportunity to get some yield.
But I would make a
00:20:32
distinction between that kind of
product and a stablecoin, a
00:20:36
tokenized dollar, if you will,
that should be held to those—
00:20:39
those pretty stringent,
conservative standards.
00:20:42
So, you talked a lot about
regulation.
00:20:46
Maybe we should confront it a
little more head on. Going
00:20:50
forward. How optimistic are you
that we will have proper
00:20:54
regulation to support the growth
of stablecoins and, maybe more
00:20:58
broadly, the support of de-fi and
cryptocurrencies more generally?
00:21:04
So I am optimistic. I am
optimistic. This
00:21:08
administration currently in
office has made it a priority,
00:21:12
and the President has said he
wants the legislation, all the
00:21:15
legislation, on his desk by the
end of this summer. I think
00:21:20
we're certainly going to see
safe stablecoin legislation
00:21:23
happen sooner. And again, my
goal is by the time this podcast
00:21:27
is released, that we will have a
stablecoin bill signed into
00:21:31
law. So I'm very optimistic. I'm
also optimistic on market
00:21:36
structure, but it's a bit more
complicated, because the issues
00:21:39
are a bit more novel. But the
House has been steadily working
00:21:44
on this. There is a bill that's
about to be passed in the House
00:21:48
of Representatives, and I think
a companion piece will be
00:21:52
introduced in the Senate
relatively soon, that will
00:21:55
address things like digital
assets that are not stable-
00:21:58
coins, that may be securities,
that may be commodities. They're
00:22:01
trading on centralized
exchanges, the custody of
00:22:05
digital assets, as well as
blockchains and blockchain
00:22:08
tokens, how they are treated,
and all of these other issues I
00:22:13
do see coming and even
potentially de-fi as well. And of
00:22:17
course, the other thing we
haven't talked about, which is
00:22:21
really important, alongside
prudential standards and making
00:22:24
sure that there's customer
protections,
00:22:28
is the anti-money-laundering,
counterterrorism finance element
00:22:31
to all of this as well. We have
long advocated for standards in
00:22:35
that. We are registered under
FinCEN, under the Patriot Act,
00:22:40
and we do AML, CTF, KYC, all
those sorts of things on our
00:22:46
customers. And that's also
something that I think we want
00:22:49
to get right in this industry.
So we're able to take a step
00:22:53
forward, use this innovative
technology— because we haven't
00:22:57
talked about all the benefits,
but the benefits are many. But
00:23:02
we also don't want to introduce
new risk, whether they're
00:23:05
financial risk or national
security type risk.
00:23:09
So, fast-forward 5, 10, years from now.
00:23:12
You see a financial
system, a
00:23:14
monetary system, that is
fundamentally different than
00:23:17
what we have today.
Who are the main
00:23:22
people who are going to benefit
from that, and how are they
00:23:25
going to notice it? If you're
thinking about, you know,
00:23:28
households, they don't have much
interaction with the financial
00:23:31
system, they don't make
speculative investments. They
00:23:34
just need to save and pay. How
are they going to see the
00:23:38
tangible difference in their day
to day life?
00:23:42
Yeah. So I think
00:23:43
any family that has waited, you
know, two days for money to
00:23:47
clear, that has friends— for
example, you probably have lots
00:23:52
of friends overseas, and you
want to send them money. And
00:23:55
you've paid exorbitant fees. All
of these things are going to
00:23:59
potentially change if we have
the new internet financial
00:24:02
system. And so— as well as folks
who maybe don't have access for
00:24:09
traditional bank accounts. In the
United States, most Americans
00:24:13
do, but many people in the
Wharton community are outside
00:24:16
the United States. Even in a
country to our south like
00:24:19
Mexico, only 50% of Mexican
adults have access to a bank
00:24:24
account. But if they have their
phone, then they can download a
00:24:28
wallet and they can store value
there. There's other folks as
00:24:32
well, in countries where the
local currency, let's say, is
00:24:36
highly volatile. I remember when
I was there at Penn, we had some
00:24:40
poor fellow students at Wharton
and at the law school who were
00:24:45
from Asia, and the Southeast
Asian financial crisis occurred,
00:24:49
and their tuition rate
quadrupled overnight because
00:24:52
they weren't able to store value
in dollars. Very difficult. So
00:24:56
all those sorts of things could
be potentially addressed
00:25:00
by— again, the other way to think
about it is, when you and I were
00:25:04
going through university, to
call— to call Philadelphia, to
00:25:10
make a call from Philadelphia to
New York, we needed a phone
00:25:12
card. It was long distance,
right? And so to some extent,
00:25:17
the current system of moving
money is back in the 1980s, when—
00:25:22
and 90s— when we were using
telephonic communication. And so
00:25:28
all of this will get a major
uplift. So there will be a ton
00:25:31
of benefits that I think, what
I would call— are skew—
00:25:34
skeuomorphic. You know, in other
words, all the stuff we're doing
00:25:37
today, we can probably do a lot
better with stablecoins and
00:25:42
with blockchains. And then
there's a whole host of stuff
00:25:45
that we haven't even imagined
that are native to this new
00:25:50
system. For example, AI agents
00:25:54
buying and selling things.
Anytime they use— for example, AI
00:25:58
goes and sweeps the Wharton
website for all of the great
00:26:01
research that you and your
colleagues are doing. Right now,
00:26:04
they're not charging any— you're
not charging anything for it.
00:26:08
But maybe in the future, you
could get a slice of every time
00:26:13
that is used in an AI agent. And
the most likely way that value
00:26:19
transfer would occur would be by
automatic payments in stable-
00:26:22
coins or other value over
blockchain. So there's a whole
00:26:25
bunch of use cases that
entrepreneurs, many of whom may
00:26:29
be watching this very podcast—
Wharton students and graduates—
00:26:33
may come up with on their own.
00:26:36
So we talked a lot about the
00:26:37
government as a regulator. The
other part that the government
00:26:41
takes in this overall story is
through its own product, its own
00:26:46
currency. And here there is a
lot of talk about central bank
00:26:51
digital currency, or CBDC. How
do you look at that in terms of
00:26:57
the future landscape of the
monetary system? Is there going
00:27:02
to be— is that going to
happen, first? And then if yes,
00:27:06
what will be the relationship
with stablecoin? Is that going
00:27:09
to be a competition or happy
coexistence? Or how do you see it?
00:27:14
So some countries are
experimenting and have central
00:27:18
bank digital currencies. China
is one of them, and there are
00:27:22
other countries as well. The
United States does not appear to
00:27:27
be interested in adopting a
CBDC— a Fed dollar, if you will—
00:27:31
anytime soon. And the reasons
for that are pretty clear, based
00:27:37
on sort of, I would say, Western
democratic values as well as
00:27:41
what we've seen with some of the
other nations that have imposed
00:27:44
CBDC experiments. First and
foremost is sort of civil
00:27:48
liberties and privacy. There's
an innate sense, at least in
00:27:53
Western-style democracies, but I
think most places in the world,
00:27:57
that we don't necessarily want
the central bank to be tracking
00:28:01
every single dollar, every
single unit of currency that we
00:28:05
spend, right? So there's a—
there's a sense there that
00:28:08
that's very, very different from
the current system by which the
00:28:12
Fed issues Federal Reserve
notes, but ultimately works
00:28:16
through the banking system and
doesn't have that insight into
00:28:19
what's in America's— what's in
Americans' every single wallet.
00:28:23
The other reason, I think, or a
couple of other reasons, are
00:28:26
there's a concern by the banking
system itself. Many Wharton
00:28:29
graduates are working in
finance, and their customers
00:28:33
have accounts with them. But if,
in fact, the bank issued its own
00:28:38
currency directly to citizens,
there's a concern that it would
00:28:42
disintermediate the entire
banking system, the entire
00:28:44
private banking system, if you
just had an account, for
00:28:47
example, with the central bank,
and were transacting directly.
00:28:49
So that larger policy issue, I
think, needs to be solved.
00:28:54
There's also the question of
monetary policy. Right now,
00:28:58
there are a number of mechanisms
by which the Fed can— can
00:29:02
regulate the money supply. But
many of them are traditional,
00:29:06
and they take time. It's
much harder than just issuing,
00:29:10
you know, a trillion dollars of
stablecoins, for example,
00:29:14
right? And so there's a big
concern, what will that mean for
00:29:17
monetary policy, and what about
if there's a slip up there? And
00:29:21
I think closely related to that
is if, in fact, the Fed can
00:29:25
create money digitally in a way
that is much broader than the
00:29:31
way it does so today, that
creates a major cybersecurity
00:29:37
risk for the United States of
America. Hacking, and the ability
00:29:41
to sort of create money
literally out of thin air.
00:29:44
Compared to stablecoins, which
must be backed one-for-one by
00:29:49
traditional assets that are very
conservative. And so I think the
00:29:53
United States, to your question,
is going to go the route that
00:29:57
says, look, the Fed will still,
obviously,
00:30:00
play a major role in
the money supply. But as— as
00:30:04
digital dollars go, we actually
want competition. We want a
00:30:08
decentralized model where we
have a number of stablecoin
00:30:12
issuers who are highly
regulated, held to high
00:30:15
standards, supervised by federal
authorities. Need to back
00:30:19
everything one-for-one, be
transparent, but also are on the
00:30:24
cutting edge from a technology
standpoint, who can experiment
00:30:27
and make sure that the US
digital dollars that are out
00:30:30
there are the very best and
continue to iterate. And so I
00:30:35
see the Federal Reserve and the
banking sector regulators
00:30:40
working with stablecoin issuers
to ensure that the dollar is
00:30:44
exported, that it remains the
reserve currency, not only in
00:30:48
the traditional financial world,
but also on the new internet
00:30:50
financial system, but working
together, as opposed to the Fed
00:30:54
just taking it over and doing it
itself.
00:30:56
Right. And there are
00:30:58
indeed a lot of debates in the
academic community along these
00:31:01
lines, and I think you hit on
some very important points
00:31:04
there. So we're running out of
time. Just one final question to
00:31:08
our own local audience here,
Wharton students, MBAs and
00:31:13
undergraduates. You've
interacted with them in a few
00:31:16
lectures, and your lectures here
are always very popular. So what
00:31:21
word of advice do you have for
some of these students who are
00:31:23
now picking their future career
path? Should they go and work
00:31:28
for a firm like Circle? Should
they target the fintech
00:31:32
industry? How do you look at
that?
00:31:35
Great question. Obviously,
00:31:37
we're always happy to look at
resumes from Wharton. It's
00:31:42
a phenomenal school that— you can
do no better. It is a
00:31:46
wonderful place. My advice to
students and graduates— and this
00:31:51
is sort of, over the years, my
own, you know, reflected
00:31:54
learnings, I would say are a
few key lessons.
00:31:59
First of all, I would say, the
days of traditional careers
00:32:03
where you go to a place and you
spend 10 years or 25 years— my
00:32:08
own view is those days are
largely over. Unless you're in
00:32:11
academia and you're— and you're
able to get a tenure at a great
00:32:15
university like you have,
by and large, there's a lot more
00:32:20
movement out there. And then
what I would say, too, is, if you
00:32:24
look at the original Fortune 500,
I think only, like, 49 of them
00:32:29
are still in the Fortune 500.
00:32:32
So the champions when you
graduate from from Wharton may
00:32:36
not be the champions 10 years
later and 20 years later. And so
00:32:40
that's the great thing about our
system of free enterprise, is
00:32:43
there's always new things
developing. I personally believe
00:32:47
FinTech and blockchain is a
great area that will continue to
00:32:51
grow. And so I would recommend
looking at this as an area. But
00:32:55
I would also say
00:32:57
everybody at Wharton probably
one day wants to be a CEO. And
00:33:02
my advice to you, all of you
guys, is you are a CEO. The
00:33:07
moment you graduate and you're
looking for your job, think
00:33:10
about yourself as a CEO, the CEO
of you. Your own professional
00:33:16
services organization that you
are going to sell to all these
00:33:20
companies in your career who may
technically employ you, but
00:33:23
ultimately you're in control of
your own set of services. So
00:33:27
that leads to another— I think
the penultimate point, I would
00:33:31
say, is you're always learning.
Don't stop learning. Every day,
00:33:37
I am learning new things, and
that's what excites me about
00:33:40
this career. I'm reminded of the
statue of Ben Franklin, where
00:33:44
he's sitting there on the bench,
right around the
00:33:46
corner from the Wharton School.
And one of the things that he
00:33:50
said long ago, which still
strikes me, is the doorstep to
00:33:53
the temple of wisdom is
knowledge of our own ignorance.
00:33:57
And so I know some things. I've
been around for a long time. But
00:34:02
there's a lot I don't know, and
learning is something you got to
00:34:06
constantly do. And then the
final point would be, don't be
00:34:09
afraid to take risk, but be
thoughtful about it, right? And
00:34:14
so there'll be some times when
you can take financial risk and
00:34:17
other times that you can't,
depending on your family
00:34:19
situation. But one thing I would
say, do not risk— and this goes
00:34:23
back to the story of why I chose
Circle, is don't risk your
00:34:27
integrity. Go to places that
you're going to be proud that
00:34:31
you work for, and that
ultimately want to do the right
00:34:34
thing, because that's the only
thing— you know, one of the few
00:34:37
things you can take with you to
the grave is your integrity.
00:34:40
Thank you very much, Heath. A
lot to draw inspiration from.
00:34:44
This was a fascinating
conversation. I think we learned
00:34:48
a lot about stablecoin, and
hopefully the audience benefited
00:34:51
from that as well.
00:34:54
Thank you for your your time.
00:34:57
My pleasure. It's always
great to be at Wharton.
00:35:00
This is part of the
second season of <i>The Future of</i>
00:35:04
<i>Finance</i> here at the Wharton
School. We are focusing the
00:35:07
second season on
cryptocurrencies, stablecoins,
00:35:11
digital assets, decentralized
finance, and all the exciting
00:35:15
technologies and innovation that
we have in this space. Today's
00:35:19
episode was devoted to
stablecoin. Thank you very much.
