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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
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network, our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising, marketing, customer behavior, retailing,
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new product launches, branding. I'm Barbara Khan, the Patty and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined
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by my co-host, Americus Reed, the Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of Marketing and the brand identity
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theorist. Hello, Americus. >> Hi, Barbara. So uh you know we are coming uh towards the end of uh 2025 and
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uh uh I was recalling one of my students in class asked me uh what is the definition of innovation and business
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innovation is defined according to the interwebs as the process of implementing new ideas, products, services or
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processes to create value, solve problems, increase efficiency and gain a competitive edge ultimately driving
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growth and boosting bottom line by meeting evolving customer needs. So, I was thinking about, you know, as we
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think about the big picture of 2025, there's probably a lot of innovation that happened out there that we need to
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talk about and to sort of celebrate in terms of some of the great things that have happened. And I was wondering if
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you had anything for me that we could jump in and sort of deal with that particular issue today.
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>> Yeah. And given it's the end of the year and a lot of media likes to make lists,
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we decided to go to the media and in particular we have with us today Emma Barker was the editorial director at
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Time and she oversees major projects that they do such as Times 100 most influential companies and Times to your
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point best inventions. and she's been recognized by lots of different companies including the Gerald Lobe
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Awards. And the reason I picked that one out in particular, although she has a long list, is because I think that's
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given by UCLA, and I used to be at UCLA, and I used to be on the comm on the committee that uh chose some of the
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award-winning journalists who wrote in business and marketing. So anyway, Emma, thank you so much for being here.
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>> Thanks for having me. So, um, Emma, is it true that you guys do all these end
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of the year lists at the, you know, to celebrate December and the beginning of January and you have a lot of lists or
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they're just a few lists or >> So, Time is kind of famous for lists because we've had the time 100 for a
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long time. Uh, person of the year is a very short list but has become a little a slightly extended list and that's been
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happening for almost a hundred years. Um, and so we're sort of known for our
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lists. We do them throughout the year, so it's not just an end year thing, but
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we do do most of them annually. Um, and yeah, every every fall we do best inventions each year. And this year is
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our biggest ever list. Uh, there's just constantly more and more uh, innovation
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happening in the world that we feel like we need to recognize. So let's save some drama before you tell
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us what they are and tell us a little bit about the process like how do you decide these?
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>> Yeah. So we do have an application process. Um companies can apply for their products and ideas and really
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that's just a way for us to be able to sort through the tons and tons of cold
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pitches we get. Um, and so we take applications, uh, and then we do our own research
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throughout the Time newsroom. The different desks are pitching things. You know, the health team pitches medical
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innovations, the tech team is pitching AI stuff. It's across the board. Um, and
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so we get a lot of pitches from reporters as well. And then myself and a small team of editors combs through them
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all. And really, as you know, we're looking for >> mainly news news newsworthiness. So,
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we're looking for products that really moved the needle this year. Um, it's a
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little different than some things like CES or things that are a little earlier stage. We're really looking for things
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that are like changing consumers lives today or this year. Um, and uh, yeah, so we're really impact is huge
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for us. global impact um is what we're looking for. And it's a really big mix
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of of B2B product ideas. You know, one year we had a new shape. I don't know if
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you remember this. It was a couple years ago, but mathematicians discovered a new
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shape that that had uh >> oh dear >> could be could be um uh repeated, you
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know, into infinity. Uh and that was on the list. Um, and then all the way down to really basic consumer products that
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are just smartly designed or or had a big moment this year. >> How important is design? How important
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is beauty or something like that? Or is it functionality that you prioritize? >> Yeah. Well, we do we separate into
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sectors and so everything has its its moment. Um, I think when it comes to beauty, um, we're really looking for,
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um, like standout innovation where with scientific backing. So, there's a lot of
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kind of wellnessy things that maybe aren't quite the right fit for time. Um,
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>> I meant beauty in terms of beautiful, like aesthetics. >> Oh, aesthetics. Yeah, design is huge.
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>> Yeah, the design category is is one of our most popular categories actually in
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terms of readership. Um, and what you know, we get stats on what people click on and what people look to buy. And um,
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>> interesting. >> And design is top of that. People are always really excited about that. And
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when we're looking at design, we're looking at, you know, things we'll put
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in the design category maybe wouldn't have stood out in a separate category,
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but are just fun to look at or really smartly designed. Um, that >> Oh, that's an interesting thing. Also,
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you have it set up so people can immediately buy it. Yeah, we have um we do have uh buy now
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links on products that are available for purchase. There's also a lot of things,
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you know, you're not going to buy a John Deere tractor on the internet. Um >> I don't know. I might do that.
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[laughter] >> Why not? >> I mean, the affiliate kickbacks on that would be incredible, but [laughter]
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but um but no, it's mostly the beauty stuff and the design stuff sells. Uh people are really clicking on that as a
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gift guide type thing. Interesting. [clears throat] Let me ask you this, Emma. So, you know, one of the
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things that we were talking about earlier is this notion of innovation acceleration
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>> as you you there's a big history here with time looking at this over multiple
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years if not hundreds of years, hundred years you said. And so are you noticing that the amount of what you define as
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global impact is actually something that is increasing as a function of the speed
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of adoption or the speed of traction that happens with respect to these these kinds of innovations that you're
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celebrating. Is that something is that a trend that you've been noticing in the
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last let's say 10 to 20 years? >> Yeah, definitely. Um so we've been doing
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best inventions specifically for 25 years. It started in 2000. Um but obviously time has been covering
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innovation for our entire 101year history. And um I think the biggest change we've noticed is yes in terms of
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speed of adoption but ability to have global impact even if you're a small company or a small product. Um mainly
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that's a social media thing and an internet thing. Um, you know, we have companies or products that are made by a
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single inventor, like a man in his garage, um, that have made the list because, um, you know, they really took
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off online or, um, or on social media and and just, uh, blew up. And so, um, it's a lot easier, I think, for smaller
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companies and smaller innovators to, uh, to make these kind of lists now. So, let me ask you, what's your favorite
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one? Not not the number one, but your personal favorite one on this list [clears throat]
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>> from this year. >> Yeah. >> Uh, okay. This is this is a going to
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reflect on me personally, but um [laughter] my my favorite one is called Heat It. It is a little device that you
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can plug into your phone. It heats up to a scientifically determined temperature
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that um neutralizes bug bites. Um and then you put the So you plug it into your phone, you put the other end on
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your bug bite and it stops the itch. Um >> which I think is just brilliant. And I
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am a permanent target of mosquitoes. So I >> Oh, me [laughter] too. >> Yeah.
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>> And then as a click link, I got to go click on that. Yeah, actually that one
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people ordered a lot of um and it's not very expensive. It's pretty pretty low
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priced. And there's another one that's really fun um that came from a Japanese
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company. This was in the design category actually. I think that it's a very cute
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little cat um sculpture that perches on the edge of a cup or a bowl and it blows
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on your soup or your hot beverage for you, [laughter] which I just think is adorable.
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>> That's Emma. I I did not know I needed that, but as the moment you said that, I
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have to have that now. [laughter] >> Well, I need the mosquito bite one. Absolutely. Without question.
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>> Yeah, that's pretty cool. >> So, yeah, that's exactly what I was
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looking for. Like kind of weird ones. And on the rest of them, do you order them or is it is there like a one, two,
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three, or is it just um >> Yeah, so we try out certain ones. Um, usually we we also have a really wide
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range of uh reporters that work with us, freelance reporters that work with us on
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this. Um, and so when we assign it, so sometimes they'll try it out, sometimes
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we'll call one into the office. We um photograph a good number of them in our
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studio as well. So we bring them in for that. Um, and then some just aren't able
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to move. We've done we've [clears throat] done things like a huge observatory in you know South America
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and that's the kind of thing that we're not going to be able to try out but
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we're going to interview an astron astronomer about uh how they use it. Um so it really varies but definitely the
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consumer stuff we're all we're always trying out. Um and we of course return
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everything. >> No, but what I mean is is there an order? Is there like is there like this
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is the top one the best new invention or >> No, it's not ranked. It's not a ranked
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list. >> It's definitely not ranked. Yes, I should know that. >> Although in its in its in its uh
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original state, this list was ranked. We did used to have invention of the year.
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>> Um and I believe the year it came out, 2007, the Apple iPhone was the invention
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of the year. And then we would have others on the list. It was a much smaller list. Um and uh yeah, so they
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used to they used to name that. I think it became more >> difficult and we wanted to just be able
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to you know draw attention to a wider range of products. >> Yeah. So if you look at your 25-y year
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hall of fame, there's the iPhone was that in 20 2007. Then you had uh YouTube
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in 2006. That's kind of an interesting one. And then you had the Tesla um the
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and then I see here the James Web Space Telescope. So, that was a great one. >> Yeah, that was in 2022. And the Roomba,
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you know, that's kind of >> that one I think just went out of business.
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>> Yeah, they're back in the news because they just filed for bankruptcy.
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>> Oh, okay. >> Sadly, [laughter] but they really spurred the entire robot vacuum space,
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you know, like that was that was not a thing. Um, and now pretty much every every home cleaning company makes a some
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sort of robotic vacuum. So they I think they had big impact despite despite not having a strong business model
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apparently. >> And then you had one that turns out to be quite political. The mRNA vaccine was
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one of your >> So that was in 2020 that was one of your hall of fame selections. So that's kind
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of interesting. And I don't know if you know but that was developed here at Penn. So we're quite proud of that.
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>> Yeah. We've there's a really strong history in best inventions of um the
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biggest medical innovations of the year um and featuring a lot of those. The first year in 2000 we had some um really
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interesting medical innovations including uh something that um stops tremors. It's the it was the first
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implant uh that they would implant to stop tremors in people with Parkinson's.
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And actually just this year we featured a new version of that same product that has now been improved upon for 25 years.
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Um so it's come come full circle. >> Interesting. And let me ask you this
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Emma because there is discussion of you know the return of manufacturing let's
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say in this country. So I'm I'm just curious are there are there examples on
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the list of uh innovations in that space in sort of the B2B space where you know
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different ways to or different products let's say that are more enterprisebased.
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What are some of the the standouts in that space? >> Yeah certainly. I mean,
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>> in terms of American manufacturing, we always have John Deere stuff on here,
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and they're a really big American manufacturer, and so I think they really speak to that story. They've been really
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pushing um the innovation in the agriculture space. Last year, they had a um fully electric and connected tractor,
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which was really interesting. Um and really, you know, pushing that that boundary. Cool. [laughter]
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>> Yeah, >> a connected tractor. I'm just I'm wondering what that means.
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>> Stats. You have to track your stats. I I can only you know it it does things like
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connects to the cloud so that you can monitor your >> your uh tractoring >> your tractoring your agricultural needs.
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[laughter] >> Yeah, >> that's interesting. That's interesting
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because it's sort of like that's really interesting, right? taking the the
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science and all of the all of the potential elements of the ecosystem that would allow you to optimize your farming
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and your agriculture and bringing that data into this product to be able to react in different ways that will be
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able to optimize your crops or or whatever. Is that kind of the idea? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And they're one
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of very few companies I would say that is still doing most of their manu all of their manufacturing I believe in the in
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the US. Um which is really interesting. Um so they always come rise to the top. There's a lot of action in the sort of
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fulfillment center space where it's you know either robots robotics that can you
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know pack or or deliver items more more smoothly. Um we've featured some of these humanoid robots that Amazon is
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triing in their warehouses. So a lot of warehouse um technologies whether that's
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um yeah fulfillment delivery or just uh specific you know kind of sorting tools things like that that use AI and
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robotics. >> So if we look at some of the ones on this year's also it looks like on the
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cover you featured the figure AI's figure 03. What exactly is that? >> Yes, it is a humanoid robot. Um
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>> Oh, dear. >> It is a humanoid robot. And actually, it's the second year in a row we've had
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a a humanoid robot on the cover. Uh last year we had um a different robot that was doing more factory work. Um that was
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doing things like what you see in Amazon where it's, you know, sorting packages,
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doing that kind of stuff in a fulfillment center. Um there have been a few companies that have have branched
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into that and Figure is one of them. It's actually working in a BMW factory um right now. Um I forget if it's West
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Virginia or Virginia somewhere out east. Um and actually working on the floor, you know, 10 hours a day assembling
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cars. Um and that's sort of in a trial period. So that's sort of been done. But
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what made us really interested in Figure and the Figure 3 specifically is that Figure is one of the first companies
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that's targeting the home for humanoid robots. Um. Mhm. >> Yeah. [laughter]
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We all shudder. >> I'm excited. Actually, I'm not sure what [laughter] he's going to do, but I want
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him to do it. >> Yeah. I don't know. I I've seen this movie. >> Well, you know, see the CEO, um, Brett
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Edcock has he talks about this. He has several of the robots in his home. They're they're there with his young
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kids and they're doing laundry and washing dishes. >> Doing laundry, cleaning the floors.
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That's what I want. Oh, man. I know. Very interesting. So, we've we found
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that really interesting and it that poses a threat to a whole new area of job replacement, which is domestic work.
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>> Um, and you know, that that has pros and cons. It could take a huge burden off of
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parents and and >> you know, anyone with a home, I guess, but largely women who do home work at
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home. And then, uh, but then it could also, you know, take away jobs from people like housekeepers and nannies and
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things like that. So, um, just huge implications there and and they just introduced that new robot this fall.
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>> Jeez, that's so interesting. >> And just to sort of just to sort of make
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sure I understand this, Emma, >> help me understand that. So, humanoid just means that it's moving more and
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more to the the technology and the robot itself is moving more and more to uh essentially replicating humanlike
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movements, things like that. Is that what humanoid actually means? It's sort
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of like you're almost going to get to a point where you don't recognize the
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difference. >> I don't know if that's the goal. Um >> I I saw Bladeunner. I watched this
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movie. It's one of my favorite movies and the replicants. I mean, I tell you,
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you know, they had to come up with a test to figure out, you know, do they have an emotional response or not. And
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so, >> no, >> I'm getting nervous. Emma, >> I don't know if the total human
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replication is um is the goal, but essentially a humanoid is just it has a human form. It has arms. It's bipeedal.
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it has a head. Um, and uh, you know, I'm also kind of interested in in why companies go for that. I think it's
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probably especially in the home. Um, our homes are so set up for a human body. You know, the cabinets are up high where
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you reach the fridge opens this way. And so I think you kind of need that that >> way of movement in order to navigate a
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home. >> Interesting. Interesting. the but if you if you look at the figure three I mean
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its face is just a black >> oh dear [laughter] >> the black pad in the sink
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>> this is not instilling confidence >> it's just a black screen it's a black
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screen >> this is the screen >> and it is eerie um >> but uh yeah they're definitely not
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trying to make it actually look like a human yet so >> interesting that's interesting the
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reason I'm asking because I was recently Emma in a uh and you can tell me if this
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is on a list at but a driverless car called Whimo. >> And it was odd to me that the steering
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wheel in the seat in the front was still intact because there's no one sitting
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there, but yet the the steering wheel is turning. And we were sort of saying like, you know, you don't have to have
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that space there. There doesn't need to be a steering wheel. Uh and one of my
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colleagues was like, actually, you do because you want to create familiarity and you want to create a sense of more
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of a sense of safety, let's say. Yes. because it's something you're used to.
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And maybe that's the same idea here, which is a humanoid, you know, or a designed that looks like a humanoid is,
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you know, you're almost hardwired to kind of accept it more because of how it
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moves and because of you because maybe you have this connection with, you know, humanness.
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>> Yeah. But in a way, Mo, there's no person sitting there that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but but and that's
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the thing. It's sort of like that's the thing that freaks you out. But, you
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know, this interesting kind of idea of like, you know, maybe it's some comfort
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to see the the steering wheel turning and I don't know. >> I think so.
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>> Maybe it's a poltergeist thing. I don't know. But if you had knowing that if you
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had to jump into the front seat and steer, you could. >> Yeah. That's what that's the part of it.
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That's good. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not the part with nobody turning it and
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it's just moving. That's not That's not >> No, I think there is an element to that.
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The familiarity, the comfort of wanting to speak, you know, especially if it's
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going to be voice commanded, wanting to be able to speak to something that looks
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familiar to you and isn't too foreign. That said, we're already totally accustomed to speaking to smart
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speakers. So, >> fair. >> I don't know if people really care about
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that, but I I'm sure a lot of um research has gone into this um in terms of what people want to talk to. Um,
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>> does the is the driverless car technology making the list or is that sort of old hat by now?
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>> No. No. So, Whimo had a huge year this year. They were on the cover of our time
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100 most influential companies. Uh, their two co-CEOs um were on with their they expanded into
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I don't have the exact number because they're announcing new cities every day,
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but um >> one >> tons of cities. They they just announced that they're launching in London, which
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is a huge launch for them. They they did LA last year, which was their biggest city yet.
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>> And I know they're testing in New York, which is a little bit scary.
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>> They're testing in New York, but that is where the driver's seat comes in. When
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they test, they're mapping the city, but they have a driver sitting behind the
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wheel just >> as as protection. I see. Um I see. So that only gets removed when they get
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clearance to actually operate driverless. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. And my understanding
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there is that all of Tell me if this is uh incorrect, Emma, that all of the cars
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are Jaguars. Is this true? Currently, I believe that's the case. Okay. >> Currently, they are, which is a huge um
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the biggest barrier to Whimo is profitability. They are bleeding money and that's the reason they're doing very
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well, but their cars are super expensive. They have incredible safety statistics, but part of that is because
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they have so many sensors on every car, which is great, >> but also so expensive.
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>> Yeah. Like that's what I heard like in some of those cities where they're
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running, they're not cheaper than taxis or anything. They may >> they're not, but um I think you know I
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was in San Francisco um earlier this year and they seem to be you know not drastically different from
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an Uber in pricewise. Um, but I'm curious, what did you think of your your first Whimo ride?
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>> You know, I had a bunch of colleagues with me, Emma, and we were all a little
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freaked out, but uh, it was kind of cool. And we were sort of thinking back to that first Uber ride.
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>> How many people were in the car? >> Uh, let's see. One, two, three, four of
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us. >> Wow. So, >> someone was in the front seat. >> Someone was in the front seat and there
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were three of us in the back. And, uh, >> Wow. >> Yeah. I and I was recalling, Emma, to
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your point, the very first time I got into an Uber, uh, with some students in San Francisco that they dialed this
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thing up and the car pulls up. Yeah. >> And they're like, "Come on, professor.
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Let's go to the bar." And I'm like, "No way, man. I'm not getting in that car
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with a stranger that just pulled up." And now it's like completely ubiquitous.
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So, to your point, Emma, you know, for Whimo driverless cars, that kind of thing, the more it scales up, that's the
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profitability question as well, but also just this the familiarity and the trust
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issue. widely speaking across consumers. >> Well, they've done something really
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interesting which is this sort of the opposite what of other Silicon Valley companies which is this very slow roll
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out. They've been operating for years and years and um you know a lot of them
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start Phoenix is sort of their um their trial area. That's where I saw them in
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Phoenix. >> Yeah, that's sort of their trial area. They always launch new stuff in Phoenix.
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Try it out. >> Nothing happens in Phoenix. >> It's [laughter] fine.
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>> Nice and safe. just a little hot but uh >> um yeah and then they you know they
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expand it to different cities slowly one by one and sort of gain this corporate trust and um something that we found in
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our reporting for that cover story was that they're largely being very you know
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welcomed by the local communities with open arms which is not something that we've seen with a lot of other
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technologies usually there's an initial kind of push back to something that Um and um
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>> yeah, people are really I most locals in cities where they have this like it
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which is was surprising to us. >> So let me look I'm looking over the list
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this year and I see one of my favorite things which is the Aura Ring. >> Oh dear. And you have here the Aura Ring
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4. So is that a specific model of the Aura Ring that >> and before you answer that Emma I have
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to give you some uh information on Barbara. Uh, she I think she usually wears about four wearables. Is that
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correct, Barbara? >> It's my [laughter] favorite. >> Wow. >> But I like I do like um my others. You
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have an Aura Ring now? >> I do. I have my watch. I have my Fitbit. Yeah. >> Nice. Aura Aura is really taking off.
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Tell us about it, Emma. >> But why is it Aura Ring for? Is it something? >> That's just the That's just the newest
00:25:46
one. They've added some sensors. They track new biometrics. So, they've really
00:25:50
just expanded the offering of that. Um but that is that particular recognition is a little bit of a lifetime
00:25:57
achievement. Aura is kind of amazing. They came out of nowhere with a single product. Um and they have totally
00:26:07
revolutionized the the um wearable space to the point that you know major companies like Apple and um other
00:26:16
wearable makers are filing you know patents. There's always rumor that they're going to do a ring and filing
00:26:22
patents that are sort of seen as um trying to replicate what Aura has built, which is really amazing for a company
00:26:29
that does one specific thing and is not Silicon Valley based. >> Yeah. And I love that point to sorry to
00:26:36
interrupt Barbara, but just really quickly the big one of the big issues that they solved was the real estate
00:26:42
problem. Yes. Right. In the sense of, you know, you only have two wrists and you know, where are you going to put
00:26:47
this thing? You could go all the way up your arm. >> Yeah. But but yeah, but I mean the idea
00:26:51
that Well, two things to your point, Barbara. Two things. One is what us normal people, we're not [laughter]
00:26:58
we're not going to necessarily do that, but but perhaps. But and then the other
00:27:01
idea of a modality, Emma, that pulls in potentially the fashion piece, >> I think is really really interesting as
00:27:09
well. You know what I mean? So in some sense that innovation fashion plus solving a little bit of the real estate
00:27:15
problem and then providing because my my whole thing was like can you get the same kind of quality of metrics if the
00:27:22
thing is on your finger and the answer apparently is yes. Yeah. Really good. In fact they're better in some sense
00:27:27
because you know like when you go to the doctor this is where they get your blood
00:27:31
you know your pulse and things like that. That's actually quite We don't
00:27:35
have that much time left, but there's just one more product on this I wanted
00:27:38
to ask you about just cuz it's so weird to me. You have a whole milk formula on
00:27:44
on this. >> Yes. Okay. So, this is I don't know if you either of you guys have kids. Um I
00:27:50
do. >> This is a space that is a little more US-specific. A lot of these products are
00:27:58
global. Um this product specifically is um you know uh Europe and most of the rest of the world has a lot stricter uh
00:28:07
regulations on what is in infant formula. Um and this has become a big sort of battleground issue in the US of
00:28:16
what's in infant formula how is it based is it actually what's best for infants.
00:28:21
Um, and largely it's seen that that whole milk is superior to uh skim milk or lower fat milks for for babies. Um,
00:28:31
in terms of brain development and other things, a lot of the US formulas are skimm milk based. I assume because
00:28:38
they're cheaper, but I actually don't totally know why. Um, and a lot of them
00:28:42
will have additives. Some of them have high fructose corn syrup. They have actual like sugar in them. So, there's
00:28:49
been this sort of blowback. And I don't know if this is a little bit of the sort
00:28:52
of wellness beat uh a little bit of the maha movement happening here, but there's been this real blowback against
00:29:01
additives in food in general. And so a lot of attention has been drawn to what is in baby formula in the US. And um so
00:29:09
a a couple of these startups have have launched these um formulas available in the US that meet the European standards.
00:29:18
And this is uh one of the only formulas that is available in the US that is only
00:29:24
uh based on whole milk which I we thought was pretty interesting. >> What an innovation. [laughter]
00:29:28
>> Interesting. >> Yeah. Simple but effective. >> Yeah. I mean I bet each one of these has
00:29:35
an incredible story, but unfortunately we're out of time. Um Emma, thank you so
00:29:40
much for joining us today and bringing us this interesting list of innovations. And where can our listeners go to find
00:29:46
the entire list and all the stories and find out more about this process? >> So the whole list is on
00:29:51
time.com/bestinventions. It's also we have a special issue that's on newsstands right now that has all the
00:29:58
the uh issue u all of the inventions in it. Um it just says time best inventions
00:30:04
so you'll know it when you see it. Um and it's uh all across the world so uh
00:30:09
yeah you can find it anywhere there's a news stand. >> Wow that's so cool. Thank you so much
00:30:14
for being with us. Yeah. >> And thank you all for listening today. We'll be back next week. Till then, this
00:30:19
has been Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast network. I'm Barbara Khan here with America's Reed.