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Hello and welcome. You're listening to
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Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
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network. It's our weekly podcast where
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we analyze the latest in advertising,
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marketing, customer behavior, and new
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product launches. I'm Barbara Khan, the
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Patty and JH Baker Professor of
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Marketing. and my co-host Americus Reed
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will not be with us today, but we still
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have a wonderful show because we have a
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very exciting guest who I'm happy to
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introduce right now. So, our guest is
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Hannah Kelly, who is the CMO at Resi,
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which is an American Express company.
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Hello, Hannah. Thank you for being here.
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>> Hi, thank you for having me.
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So, you're the CMO or chief marketing
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officer at Resi since 2022, but you've
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been at American Express for a while,
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right?
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>> Yes. It is actually my 15-year
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anniversary this month,
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>> which is still wild to say out loud. Um,
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but it's it's been an amazing ride. And,
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uh, the last sort of six years of my
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career with American Express has been
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dedicated to our dining practice. And
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that started with um leading the
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acquisition of of resi from the American
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Express side. So evaluating that
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opportunity, seeing it through and then
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when we closed joining as a member of
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the resi leadership team. Um and since
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then um have been been along for the
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ride. Um, and we just actually acquired
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a talk at the end of last year, which is
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another table management and hospitality
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technology provider to some of the most
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fine dining restaurants and and
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wineries. So, at every turn, it just
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continues to get exciting. It's a very
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dynamic industry and and job to be a
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part of.
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>> So, let's talk a little bit about the
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business model and then get into resi in
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particular. So American Express
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I remember is it a credit card? Is it a
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charge card? I mean that whole business
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was a little bit different than say
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Mastercard and Visa to start with. Is is
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that right?
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>> Absolutely. I mean, our job is to think
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about how to really build a brand around
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what is a piece of plastic now a piece
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of of metal in all the form factors that
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we have and really think about being
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more of a lifestyle provider. And that
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of course comes with financial services
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and powerful backing, but it comes with
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thinking about where consumers are are
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spending today and where we think
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they're going to spend tomorrow and
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building benefits, creating the right
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sort of partnerships and proprietary
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technology and offerings to ensure that
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we're there um to incentivize,
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complement and empower the the lifestyle
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choices of our base.
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>> So, it's really kind of an interesting
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business because there's no there there.
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It's kind of like a platform, a network,
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a collaboration of a lot of different
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things. And now moving into this dining
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space, you're really talking about the
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experience of dining um in some sense.
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And that's that's the service you're off
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offering. Correct.
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>> 100%. And I mean, even when we thought
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about the the acquisition of of Resi,
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we've had a long-standing heritage
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predating my tenure um at American
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Express by many decades within dining.
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Um, I believe one of the first
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transactions swiped with an American
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Express card was at a restaurant. Um,
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and in our ambitions as an enterprise to
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really think about where our consumer
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spending, how can we add value? And then
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similarly on the network side, making
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sure that we're looking at merchants and
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providing and connecting them with the
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diners um and and guests. We need to
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look at the categories we play in. and
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dining is that in 2024 we saw $87
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billion from American Express card
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members spent in the dining category.
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>> Wow. um which is a tremendous number and
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there's a real opportunity for us to
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make sure that we're looking at the best
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restaurants and venues and how do we
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provide technology and tools and with
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resi and now with talk we we have those
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capabilities at our disposal and we have
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service offerings beyond just tech which
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which we can speak about and our job is
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to really make sure that those
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businesses thrive. They are profitable.
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they are growing the way that they want
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to grow through telling their stories
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through meals, through events. Um, and
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for diners, it's it's connecting them to
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those restaurants, those that they love
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and and those that they should love. And
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and with that, if you're an American
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Express card member or an MX merchant,
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we hope to make it even that much better
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for you.
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>> Yeah. So, let's so let me just parse
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that out a little bit because you
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mentioned two different sets of
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customers. There's the restaurants and
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then there's the end users. So,
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I I don't know if this is a secret or
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you can tell us like where what's the
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revenue model? Who pays for the service?
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Somebody must pay for that. So where
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does the revenue come from? Does it come
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from the restaurants? Does it come from
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the end users?
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So we are we are a SAS business. So both
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resi and and talk are SAS businesses
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meaning that we sell the resi operating
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system and talk sells its top um
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operating system to hospitality
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providers and there's a monthly fee that
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that goes a part of that. Um so we get
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revenue from those pieces. But when we
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think about the broader business model
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it's the actual spend that we're seeing
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come through under the umbrella of
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American Express which is we're seeing
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card members continue to spend in
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dining. We hope to continue to capture
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more than our fair share of of that
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spend. Um, and by having that sort of
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connectivity to 20,000 plus restaurants
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with within resi, we have the ability to
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now do that not only from like a SAS fee
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side of things, but I think more
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importantly powering up the broader
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ecosystem, which unlocks a lot of
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broader revenue that you would see
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through American Express.
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>> Okay. So, let me just unpack what you
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just said. So some of it's a
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subscription model, right? Where the
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merchants pay for your software platform
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and for those services. So that's some
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kind of subscription, but then on top of
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it, people use the card to charge the
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meals and so that generates other types
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of revenue for the business. And it's it
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that's I think that's what you said. Is
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that right?
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>> That's exactly right. And our job is to
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think about how that spend is not only
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just self- serving for American Express,
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but we're sending that to we hope more
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restaurants who might not have had that
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access to that type of diner before that
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American Express can send through our
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joint resi talk and American Express
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marketing ecosystems, but also through
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creating benefits and incentives to get
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people out to dine. And so just to bring
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that to life, um we launched something
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called our resi credit benefit which
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allows for eligible card members from
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American Express to enroll and when they
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enroll in that benefit when they spend
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at any resi restaurant, they earn
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whatever dollar amount back right on
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their check. Um and with that, we've
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been able to send $19 million in resi
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credit statements um to resi restaurants
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in New York City alone. um just in in a
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year period of time. So what that allows
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us to do is yes, we have our SAS fees,
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we're seeing the spend, but we're also
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hoping that we're driving that
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incrementality not just for AMX, but to
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hopefully in create more profitability
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for restaurants who on average make very
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slim margins um especially in today's
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world with rising rents and and just
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cost of goods, labor, etc.
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>> Okay, so let's talk about the fun part
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which is like the marketing. So, one of
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the things we're seeing in a lot of in a
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lot of businesses, but it makes a lot a
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lot of sense here in this business is
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this move towards experiences and um and
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so I think in addition to the service
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you may provide by making a reservation
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and the operational side, you're also
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doing a lot of storytelling, a lot of
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collaborations, a lot of experiences
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around around different chefs. Can you
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talk a little bit about how that got
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started and how you form those
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relationships and how you think about
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that?
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>> 100%. The the core of resi is is yes, we
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have an awesome brand, but that that
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brand is really backed by the
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restaurants and venues on our platform.
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And we have the privilege of getting to
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help amplify and tell their stories. And
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that's through edits, that's through
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events, that's through experiences. Uh
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if you think about just the very premise
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of a restaurant and of a meal, those are
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micro experiences each and every day.
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You're going to lunch, you're going to
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dinner with a friend, that is an
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opportunity for theater, that is an
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opportunity for service, that is an
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opportunity for human interaction and to
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be transported to potential different
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country through a different cuisine
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type. Um to be more specific around the
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experiences we do, what we like to do is
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twofold. one, what are experiences that
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we can create that are proprietary to
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resi in close partnership and within
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ideiation of our restaurant partners and
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then two really merchandising a lot of
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events and ideas that our restaurant
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partners are bringing to us. So an
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example of the latter is uh we are close
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partners with unapologetic foods. They
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are based in in New York City. Uh Ronnie
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Mazumar is their their uh CEO. Uh they
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specialize in Indian cuisine and they
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have grand ambitions not just to serve
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and provide incredible cuisine of which
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they've won tons of accolades for. Um
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it's very hard to get in um to their
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restaurants. They have an amazing
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service model, but beyond that they
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really want to help break down and
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demystify and educate the deep heritage,
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the the different flavors, the the story
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behind Indian cuisine in the Western
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world. So Ronnie actually approached us
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and said, "Hey, like I have this crazy
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idea. I would love to be able to take
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Indian food and unapologetic
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on tour across the country to help
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expose
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America to Indian flavors, um have
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talks, etc." We didn't think it was
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crazy at all. And we actually sponsored
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that that series. And that's one of
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those ideas that came to us from a
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restaurant partner. And and that that
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conversation can happen because of our
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deep relationship and investment in
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really knowing our partners and and
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being there as they hope to build out
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their ambitions for their businesses. on
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on the former which is more of our
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original programming. We are constantly
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looking for ways to marry cultural
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zeitgeist and where consumers are
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interested where they think they we
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think they should be interested in food
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and match that up with what we are
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seeing in terms of trends and and
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upandcomers and names that should be
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known within within dining and
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hospitality and and one such example is
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our resi dream team dinner series that
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we launched this year and the premise of
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that was how could we look at these
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hotter rising chefs and and operators
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around the country and pull on the the
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conversations that we see um light the
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eyes up of our chefs most which are what
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inspired you, what got you into into
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cooking, what made you want to like
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sacrifice
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um your career, your time um and really
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get into this trade and and with that
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like who would be your dream
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collaborator? Um those those types of
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conversations were always are always the
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most fun. So we turned that into a
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series and our resi dream team series
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was taking the sort of upand cominging
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stars. We picked five of them. Um one
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such example Yara Herrera in in Queens
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of of Hellbender. Had a conversation
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with her. Who did she want to
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collaborate with? She named Martha
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Stewart was like I don't even know if
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you could do this. We called Martha's
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team. They were honored, delighted.
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loved the reasons why Yara wanted to to
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partner with with um with Martha and
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Martha herself went collaborated on
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cocktails, a full menu, went for service
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and with that it brought a really unique
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experience to Yara and to her team in
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Queens, but also provided an incredibly
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rewarding once in a-lifetime sort of
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experience for for guests as well. Um so
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so that is really like the heart and
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soul and and really we
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>> how did the guests get to be part of
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that? Like how does that exactly work?
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So I understand that experience. That's
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awesome actually. And h like how would I
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get to do it? How do you get to do it?
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>> So we we ticket them exclusively on
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resi. So we partner we create the
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partnership. We create the event. We
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produce the event. Um we brand the
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event. We do all of the marketing
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collateral around it. We put it live on
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the resi app and web for any guest to to
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go and experience. And then we market
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that through social on our channels um
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email and our own channels. And then
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also the chefs and and the talent
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channel. So in this case Martha as well.
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>> Wow. So I also saw I mean I guess this
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is old news now but it's one of my
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favorite shows that you did some kind of
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sponsorship with the bear. Um I mean
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that show was really interesting in that
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it showed for this is the fourth season
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I guess all the background and
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everything you're talking about the
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whole theater and the fine dining. So it
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does make perfect sense to do some kind
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of sponsorship with that. How did that
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all come about?
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>> Yeah, I I think you know food and
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hospitality is at a really interesting
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point where you're starting to see
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consumers actually care what's going on
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back of house. Um and and the service
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model and and and the deeper stories
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beyond like what dishes should I eat,
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which are the what are the best
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restaurants? And the fact that a show
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like The Bear is is in multiple seasons
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and running demonstrates that like the
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consumer really woke up. And personal
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hypothesis is you know food is is one of
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those last sort of frontiers that you
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can digitize everything around it but
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you can't digitize the taste yet and the
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experience of being served and the
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people behind it. And my other personal
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hypothesis is during COVID, I think we
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really felt the gap of not being able to
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gather and go out to eat. Your phone is
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down. You are looking at the person next
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to you or across the table from you. And
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there's a real respect for people
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providing that level of service and and
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cuisine. So, I think that's really
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exciting to see. With with the bear, we
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have a broader relationship with
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American Express and and Disney and
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Hulu. Um so uh that was kind sort of the
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premise but what is interesting is resi
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was organically mentioned in the show.
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Um, we have agency partners and chef
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partners who help to produce and and be
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a part of that that show. And I think
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that really speaks to as a brand for
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resi the the sort of clout that we've
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been able to build by authentically
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providing the right sort of product,
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providing the right sort of editorial,
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having those partnerships with the
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restaurants and the operators to to just
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organically be featured in a show that
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is authentically about the industry.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. No, that really made sense.
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Like what you're saying is true. They
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had real chefs on it. It seamlessly
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worked into the show. It it's all it all
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made perfect sense. So, a lot of what
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you're talking about here is from the
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producing the experience side, from the
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restaurant side. But meantime, you must
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also get all this data from your diners.
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Um, so what do you do with all of that
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data?
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>> We do a lot. Um and uh with with the
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data that we have from our diners, we we
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know that personalization isn't really a
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is it going to be here? Is it going to
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stay? It is it is core to our business
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model and it's incumbent upon us to use
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that data to not only help grow our
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ambitions of of resi and American
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Express of capturing greater spend and
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and engaging existing card members
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prospecting net new. It's really about
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how we can power up hospitality and
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restaurant tours, they don't necessarily
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have marketing departments. They don't
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necessarily have data scientists sitting
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on their their so when we look at data,
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we think about it of one,
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>> when we think of building our restaurant
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network, where are people dining? What
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are people searching for? How can we
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make sure that we're looking at yes
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accolades that we're seeing in the
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market, but paying attention to
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different cuisine types to surface up
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restaurants within our platform,
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editorialize them, and even go out and
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acquire and bring them on onto.
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>> Uh two is we are looking at how we can
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use data to help create content that's
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bringing guests into the platform. So
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there's a lot more we can be doing there
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and where we spend where we are spending
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even greater time but like thinking
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about the collection. So when you go
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into the resi app we have an entire
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discover tab and you can actually filter
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through um different ways of of dining.
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So that could be brunch it could be
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different you know cuisine types etc.
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And we're using data to inform the
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algorithm and even the collections that
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we publicly surface um to search. And
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then the last piece is like when we want
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to invest in proprietary benefits for
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American Express card members, we're
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looking at what are the what are the
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trends and consumer behaviors around
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what's getting them to spend, what's
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getting them to dine out more and mining
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that to create the right sort of events
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and experiences that we put out for all
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guests. But then what do we hold back as
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sort of those scarce assets for um
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American Express card members to again
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make it worth your your while to we hope
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get an AMX card and spend a bit more.
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>> So I mean it makes sense all of this but
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you can also imagine extensions and now
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that I'm thinking about American Express
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has always been about travel and stuff.
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It seems like a natural extension would
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be to go into travel destination not
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just dining but hotels destination and I
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guess American Express has always been
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in that business. So does Resi see
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itself going in that direction too or
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>> Yeah 100%. I mean we have AMX travel
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which is one of the largest travel
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agencies in in the world with resi and
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now talk combined we can create a
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similar sort of platform and ecosystem
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with within dining within MX. That said
00:18:07
I think the power is when you string all
00:18:09
of that together and that's where we
00:18:11
spend a lot of time in internally. So,
00:18:13
if you land in California from
00:18:17
Pennsylvania, and we send you an email
00:18:20
or a push that says, "Welcome from
00:18:22
American Express. Here's where you're
00:18:25
staying." Imagine a world where we can
00:18:26
also include, "Here are places to eat
00:18:29
based off of your dining behavior, based
00:18:31
off of how many people we think you're
00:18:33
traveling with." There's so much we can
00:18:35
do. And um one prime example of how
00:18:38
we've connected some of these assets
00:18:39
actually just launched within the last
00:18:41
couple of weeks. our our culinary
00:18:43
collective. Um, so we've had the
00:18:45
Centurion Lounge business for some time.
00:18:48
We have believe now 15 locations around
00:18:52
uh the US and and globally. And what
00:18:54
we've done to uplevel that experience
00:18:57
and give people maybe to just go to the
00:18:59
airport without a ticket is we've
00:19:01
brought in five of our of our top chefs
00:19:04
um that we see coming through in terms
00:19:06
of demand data like Mike Solomonwami
00:19:10
Mashama Bailey um and we've actually had
00:19:13
them curate a menu that you can
00:19:16
experience in any of our of our 15
00:19:18
lounges. So, what's exciting is that
00:19:21
we've started to scratch the surface on
00:19:23
how we can bring our dining and travel
00:19:24
assets together and I think there's so
00:19:28
much more we can do both digitally and
00:19:29
and in real life to create something
00:19:31
special for card members.
00:19:33
>> Yeah, it's really interesting. If I look
00:19:34
at any of the data on where people are
00:19:36
spending money, it's definitely on
00:19:38
experiences. Like you look in the luxury
00:19:40
world, they're just not buying as many
00:19:42
material things anymore and creating
00:19:44
these new kinds of experiences is what
00:19:47
people are looking for. So I mean you're
00:19:49
naturally in that space, but how much of
00:19:51
it was proactive versus reactive? I mean
00:19:54
did you see this coming and say this is
00:19:56
the way it goes or you just happen to be
00:19:57
in the right place at the right time or
00:20:00
probably a little bit of both. No. Um
00:20:02
truly and I give AMX uh credit again
00:20:05
predating my my tenure at the company.
00:20:07
We've been in the the business of
00:20:09
experiences um for decades and look at
00:20:13
look at the great sponsorships and
00:20:15
tenure sponsorships we have with the US
00:20:17
Open uh with the NBA uh what we are
00:20:21
doing with F1. So even at a brand level
00:20:24
um we've had a dining conc we had a
00:20:27
dining concierge program that was really
00:20:29
about facilitating access that was all
00:20:31
phone based predating predating resi uh
00:20:35
thinking to the question of where you
00:20:37
started which is really like what is
00:20:39
American Express it is connecting buyers
00:20:43
and sellers but the way in which we do
00:20:45
that is through through experiences and
00:20:47
giving people meaning and providing them
00:20:49
backing and confidence to to do that
00:20:51
with resi and and talk those investments
00:20:54
were made because we knew that this
00:20:56
experiential economy was here to stay
00:20:59
and especially within dining. So, um I
00:21:03
want to give the the the credit where
00:21:04
credit is due. It's been a long-standing
00:21:06
part of just what the premise of
00:21:08
membership is and and where we want to
00:21:10
be able to support the lifestyles of our
00:21:12
card members today and tomorrow.
00:21:14
>> So, I'm actually interested just in your
00:21:16
personal life, like what do you do
00:21:18
daytoday? I mean, it sounds like you
00:21:19
have a pretty exciting job dealing with
00:21:21
all these people, but like what is a
00:21:23
dayto-day in your in your world?
00:21:25
>> Uh, one is I wake up and deal with a
00:21:28
three and a halfyear-old. Um, that, but
00:21:30
once I get her out the door, uh, we are
00:21:34
thinking a lot about what is the future
00:21:35
state of of hospitality and how do we
00:21:37
build that both in terms of brand and
00:21:39
value proposition, which is squarely
00:21:41
within my camp, partnering closely with
00:21:43
our product teams and and greater
00:21:45
American Express of of what that could
00:21:47
look like. Um and and to date we're
00:21:50
spending a lot of time on on the
00:21:52
integration of of resi and talk and and
00:21:55
really thinking about what what that
00:21:56
will look like in the future and and
00:21:58
it's exciting. Um the the second and
00:22:01
like most exciting part of my job is yes
00:22:04
spending time with my team but really
00:22:06
spending time with partners. If you just
00:22:08
listen, you shut up and you listen to
00:22:10
operators, front of house staff, go to a
00:22:13
restaurant, talk to a host, you get a
00:22:16
lot of insight around who's coming in
00:22:19
their doors, who's not coming in their
00:22:20
doors, where they're getting stuck on
00:22:22
operations, the stories they want to
00:22:24
tell, that they have no idea that
00:22:27
there's a marketing angle there for
00:22:28
their business. They have no idea that
00:22:31
the technology and ops is is a place
00:22:34
that they could actually solve some of
00:22:35
their business challenges. So that's
00:22:37
that's where we spend a ton of time and
00:22:39
focus is is really trying to understand
00:22:41
from a diverse set of of partners and
00:22:43
business sizes of different dollar sign
00:22:45
offerings um on a menu. What is it that
00:22:49
they they need? And we're using that to
00:22:51
kind of inform the the former which is
00:22:53
what is that future state of hospitality
00:22:56
uh look like? How do we power that up
00:22:58
through technops? And how do we power up
00:23:00
a demand um ecosystem with our guests
00:23:02
and our member base to to deliver on
00:23:04
that? So, if you're doing all that
00:23:06
listening, are there any like
00:23:07
interesting trends that you're noticing,
00:23:09
things that like that you've heard that
00:23:11
was a surprise to you?
00:23:13
>> Uh, oh, it's such a good question. I
00:23:16
think, um, I think the demand piece is
00:23:18
something that that comes up a lot. And,
00:23:21
um, how do we continue to tell our story
00:23:23
and break through media and break
00:23:25
through noise to to reach that demand?
00:23:27
And if you can imagine like big brands
00:23:29
who you have on this podcast um like
00:23:32
American Express, like Resi, we're
00:23:34
competing for share a voice and and
00:23:37
people's attention. Imagine what a
00:23:40
restaurant or a venue is doing when they
00:23:42
don't have a marketing department. So,
00:23:44
if anything, it it kind of puts the onus
00:23:47
and like we see a real opportunity to be
00:23:50
a thought partner there both in
00:23:52
providing ideas when we do engage
00:23:54
one-on-one of what what's a story angle,
00:23:57
how you could get that out and then
00:23:58
putting that into our own edit and our
00:24:00
events and experiences, but also where
00:24:02
we want to productize that at at some
00:24:03
point. So I think just really helping
00:24:06
and and that acute need of how do we
00:24:09
break through this like digital
00:24:11
ecosystem as a very small business um is
00:24:15
is something that continues to come up
00:24:17
in in our conversations.
00:24:19
>> Oh yeah that's pretty interesting.
00:24:20
American Express has always been good
00:24:22
about helping small businesses. I mean I
00:24:24
think you guys invented like Small
00:24:26
Business Saturday or something like
00:24:27
that. did was one of the first projects
00:24:29
I worked on as like a little analyst, a
00:24:32
very small role in a in a very big
00:24:34
campaign, but um it's honestly why I
00:24:37
love the job that I'm in now. It's with
00:24:40
AMX, you know, you hear this big you
00:24:42
hear this big name. We've we've been
00:24:44
around for decades and um what has
00:24:48
always been sort of my my lifeline to
00:24:51
this company has been the genuine desire
00:24:53
to help small business do more business.
00:24:55
I started in um what was called open at
00:24:58
the time and we had done research and
00:25:01
this was back in in 2010 around like the
00:25:04
the mindset of a of a small business
00:25:06
owner and the number one need was we
00:25:08
need more business we need more
00:25:10
customers and you know I'm just I had
00:25:13
worked in fashion PR been in the company
00:25:15
for for like a month or two and when
00:25:18
this report came out I was like that's
00:25:19
good to know like what are we possibly
00:25:21
going to do with this and someone had
00:25:24
come up with the idea of let's make a
00:25:26
holiday um like Black Friday for the big
00:25:29
guys like and and call it Small Business
00:25:31
Saturday. And just seeing the company
00:25:33
rally behind that, get the investment.
00:25:35
We launched it as a Facebook page and
00:25:37
and now here it is 15 years later. It's
00:25:40
it's amazing. And and a lot of the
00:25:43
premise and the business challenges we
00:25:44
have within hospitality are exactly
00:25:46
that. How do we help restaurants thrive?
00:25:48
>> Yeah. And that's what makes eating out
00:25:50
so fun is that they're small businesses.
00:25:52
You don't want to go to this big
00:25:53
conglomerate. you want to go to a local
00:25:55
restaurant, a local chef, and it's
00:25:58
interesting to really focus on that.
00:26:00
Well, Hannah, it's been a delight
00:26:01
talking to you about your job, about
00:26:04
resi, about American Express. Thank you
00:26:06
so much for joining us today.
00:26:08
>> Thank you so much. It's great.
00:26:09
>> Where can our listeners go to read more
00:26:11
about this or maybe to find out more how
00:26:13
to get involved with this? Where can
00:26:14
they go to find out about this?
00:26:16
>> Download the Resi app. Um, that's where
00:26:19
you can directly book, you can discover,
00:26:22
um, or resi.com. Um, we have all of our
00:26:24
edit events and obviously great
00:26:27
restaurants to book. So, check us out.
00:26:29
>> Yeah, great experiences. Thank you so
00:26:31
much. Well, that's all we have time for
00:26:34
today. We'd like to thank our producers,
00:26:35
Dion Simkins and Marissa Rena. Thank you
00:26:38
all for listening today and we'll be
00:26:39
back next week. Till then, this has been
00:26:42
Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
00:26:44
Network.
00:26:45
[Music]
