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Dan Loney: We obviously have
seen a rise in the use of things like ChatGPT in the last couple
of years, but one of the
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questions now being asked is,
can you use AI to help with the brainstorming of ideas? Gideon
Nave was part of a research
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project done on the topic. He is
an Associate Professor of Marketing here at the Wharton
School. Gideon, great to talk to
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you again. How are you, sir? I'm well, Dan. It's really hot
outside, but we are in a nice
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fresh air-con here at Wharton. So. Absolutely, absolutely air
conditioning is nice at this
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time of the year. Hey, let's
start, I guess, with the genesis of the idea. And is part of
this kind of the transformation
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we're all going through in
understanding just how much we can use things like ChatGPT,
and in what areas, and maybe
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what areas we can't use them? Well, you know, the work we've
been doing recently was about
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creative tasks. Our creative
task, I would say the goal of them is to come up with
something that is novel, unlike
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more routine tasks of, you
know, just maybe translation, right? Translation, you have a
sentence, you will translate. It
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doesn't have to be surprising in
any way. It doesn't have to be novel. You know, finding
new ways to do translation is a
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creative task. And when we talk
about creativity, we talk about things that are novel and
useful. That's— you know, people
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don't seem to agree on the
definition, but when people see something that is creative, they
do seem to agree that it is
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creative. I've been teaching
creativity at Wharton for a while. Even during the time when
ChatGPT came out, I was in the
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middle of class, and I even got
to do like a live demo of it at the time. And actually what I
remember in this class, I
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actually demonstrated to people,
to my students, how you can use GPT to just write an email to
your professor. And I wrote an
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email where you write an excuse
to the professor, like, why did you— why did you not submit your
homework in time. And one of
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the students said, "Hey, ask it
to write a creative excuse." And GPT did it well. It came out
with the idea that, you know, my
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project turned out into
something that seemed like a product, and I was working
very hard to do it, to get it
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into market, and I missed the
deadline, right? That's very, very creative. And that's the
old GPT, the first one that
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came out. So— and we know that
these models have a tendency to hallucinate. Meaning, to come up
with new stuff when— and pretend
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that they know it. So for this,
for creative tasks, it's actually pretty useful and cool.
And these models are trained on
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a lot of human thoughts,
expressions, emotions and whatnot. So we definitely see a
great potential here. And some
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companies have been doing it
too. Coca Cola, for example, used the AI to come up with, you
know, a new flavor that is like
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the year 3000 and so on. The
thing is that as scientists, we— what we want to do is go beyond
these anecdotes and try to
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systematically understand what's
going to happen if all of us are going to start using AI for our
creative processes.
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And realistically, when you're
talking about the link between creativity and what companies
look for, in many cases, that's
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a core element of their
operation. They have to be creative in order to be able to
take that next step in their
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success level.
- When you're in a competitive market,
obviously, like, creativity
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is key. You want to do
something that your opponent cannot do, and you want to— you
want to beat your opponent,
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whether it is as a company that
tries to compete with others, whether it is an employer that
competes for promotion, and so
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on. And in this sense,
creativity is an ever-moving goalpost, right? If I tell you a
joke now that you've already
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heard, that's not going to be
funny. If I tell you a joke that has the same principle that you
may have already heard about,
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maybe, maybe it has a chance.
And in this sense, you know, maybe getting the principles of
a joke like, sometimes you kind
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of build something, and then you
break a pattern, that will be— maybe a joke like this
could work.
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So you mentioned Coca Cola,
Gideon, about how they use it. How much expectation should we
have that companies are already
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using AI to enhance the
creativity that they have? You know, many companies
are using it already. And what
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we as scientists try to do is to
try to go beyond these anecdotes and get into real science and
see, what is going to happen if
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everybody is going to use the
same model, such as ChatGPT? It's very possible that the new AI is
going to give you an edge. But a
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non-specific AI is kind of the
very start. And that's where we come to the study that we
recently published. So a study
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published in <i>Nature Human
Behavior</i> about four or five months ago did an experiment
where they gave people various
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creative tasks, such as coming
up with a novel use for a garden hose and a rocket, or
coming up with— with ideas to
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buy for an 80-year-old birthday.
And they did— they randomized people into groups that either
could use Google searches or
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ChatGPT, and they just compare the
creativity of the people who used the former versus the latter.
And they found that the GPT
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increased the creativity, overall,
of every person. What we did, though, is, once we reanalyzed
their data, we found that GPT
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indeed increased the creativity
of every individual, but it made also everyone more similar to
one another. And if this is the
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case, we actually end up with
less new ideas as a group. Okay? So it's kind of like a
prisoner's dilemma, where it's
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the benefit of everyone to use
the GPT. They, on average, become more creative. But then, as a
global company, as a society,
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we're going to become more
similar to one another, and then we're going to actually smother
creativity.
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And do you potentially end up
losing, you know, the individual creativity? Because how one
person is creative compared to
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another is most likely
different. And you're coming now with a more kind of steady path,
straightforward path, of the
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same types of creativity if
you're relying on ChatGPT. Exactly. On the long run, I
think that once all of the ideas
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are available to everyone, I'm
pretty sure that, like— we call it the sprinkler effect. Like,
the one use that GPT came up as—
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for garden hose and rocket ball,
is to make sprinklers from it. It's an idea that is great. It's
useful, it's novel, and it's
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rated highly. But if I'm a
manager, I'm going to get 50 different proposals of what to
do with that. And 20 of them are
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sprinklers. I'm probably not
going to judge the people that came up with the sprinkler as more
creative, even though, you know,
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if I get one sprinkler it
seems like a great creative idea. So I think we need to be
careful here.
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So this is very much like a lot
of things around AI right now. We're kind of testing where it's
taking us, but we still have to
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be wary as to where it's going
to take us down the road. I think that one— you know, initial promise of
studying AI was to look at the
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individual and how it makes the
individual more X, Y or Z. When it comes to— when it comes to
productivity in maybe routine
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tasks, it makes sense. When it
comes to creativity— but creativity is always measured
against the prior art, against
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what everyone else is doing.
Using GPT in a conventional way is going to make you look
conventional, because everybody
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is going to use it the same.
Even though, you know, if you're the only one using it, it will
make you look like a superstar
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creative person. But we're
talking here about technologies that is available to everyone.
So there are risks here. And one
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of the emphasis in my class— my
creativity class, I fully endorse AI. So I wouldn't say
that, you know, don't use AI.
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But there are ways to use it,
and there are smarter ways to use it than just asking it, "Hey,
come up with a creative solution
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to me, for my problem." Gideon, great to talk to you
again. Thanks very much.
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Always, Dan. Thank you. Thank you.
Gideon Nave, Associate Professor of Marketing here at the
Wharton School.