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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
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Network. That's our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising,
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retailing, marketing, customer behavior, and new product launches. I'm Barbara
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Khan, the Patty and JH Baker Professor of Marketing. Um, and my co-host, America's Reed, can't join us today, so
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I'm alone. But it's going to be an exciting show anyway because we have as
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our guest Doug Zarkin. Doug is the first chief marketing officer of Take Five Oil
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Change. And before he started this new position, he was at the wellness and fitness service company, Modern
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Performance and Recovery Brands. It's known for the Good Feet store. And he was chief brand officer there since
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2023. and he led a national successful partnership with Katie Kurrick. Before that, he was CMO of Pearl Vision, which
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is a Lexotica company. They wrote a Harvard case on that on that company. And he's held marketing leadership roles
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at fashion companies like Kelwood, Waro, and limited brands as well as the cosmetics brands. Avon, long, long, long
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marketing history. And now he's at Take Five Oil Change. Doug, welcome to our
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podcast. Barbara, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. >> You know, I'm really excited to look at
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your background to talk to you before we talk about Take Five and I watched that
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spot. It was very clever. I was thinking, how can you make a lube change clever, but you did it. Um, but before
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we talk about that, I'm really interested in your career because you've been in marketing and in branding,
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creating brands for a long time, but over that length of time, how you create brands has changed a lot. We've moved
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from a a traditional branding advertising world to now collaboration, social media, and I'm kind of curious
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since you've been at the helm of these big brands for so long, what your take
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is on the way marketing has changed and the way you execute brands. >> You know, it's interesting. You know,
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while the tools and tactics have certainly changed, I think the fundamentals haven't, which is
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marketing's purpose is to motivate the consumer to take the action that you would like them to take when you would
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like them to take it. And that's the what. The how in terms of how you do that, again, for me at least, has really
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always centered around this notion of thinking human. the idea of treating every customer that walks into your
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store, visits your ecom site, or in our case goes into one of our service centers as if they're the only car
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that's coming in that day. And if you build an ecosystem around that, and your
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marketing reflects that ecosystem, you're going to connect with them first emotionally and then rationally. And the
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reality is is that in today's landscape in particular, given so many choices and
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options, consumers make emotional decisions before they make rational choices. And so it's really our
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obligation if we want to take on that huge task. We've got to start with the
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humility. And the humility really does mean getting into the mindset, capturing that heart, capturing that mind in order
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to capture that traffic and that business. Yeah, I understand that concept and I completely agree with it
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and I like I know you've written a book on this and let's get out of the friend
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zone, you know, and really create brand love. But I'm just curious how you've
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made the change and how you've learned. I mean, because you started in branding
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when it was so different and now it's about social influencers, social media
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collaborations. Like, how did that happen? And how did you learn how to do that from one
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>> that's the nicest way somebody's told me that I'm old in a very long time. Um you
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know for me I think in particular it used to be a a a funnel. It used to be a linear funnel right
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>> and I think today the appreciation is really that it's more like a subway map
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than a linear funnel which means that every tool and tactic you really have to recognize its role in the ecosystem. I
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mean, certainly you're not going to build brand on paper click, but you have
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to recognize that action isn't confined to what used to be considered to be actionoriented media. Again, for me, it
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really gets down to that art of sacrifice. You know, if you're trying to say everything, you're going to say
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nothing. And so working with our creative agencies, our media partners, really developing briefs for channels,
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not just campaigns, and critically understanding how the ecosystem functions so that every single tool in
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the toolbox can be a valuable tool in order to achieve the results that we're
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looking to achieve. >> Yeah. I just really want to make this concrete. So let's go to the example of
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this take five oil change as an example. And I watched that ad. I thought it was
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a very clever ad. There's a few thing I'm I I'm curious where the ad runs, how
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it works. I'm one of the things that I thought was very interesting was the collaboration with the Brad Pitt movie.
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Um, how did all that come about? How did you I mean, that was really it. It's
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interesting. You're advertising the movie as well as your own service, but it works together in a really
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interesting way. >> I mean, integrations is definitely not a new phenomenon. I think in in the case
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of F1 and again I'm I'm new to the business so this partnership predated me
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and I give all the credit to the team that's in place today that I now have the pleasure to lead on building that. I
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think what that movie represents is something that's critical in today's
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landscape which is looking for less competitive cluttered touch points. An integration into a movie allows you the
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opportunity if it's done well to build your educated brand awareness. In an ideal world, it is something that is
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systematic relative to your brand. So in the case of F1, obviously the movie has
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to do with the automotive industry. Obviously, it's F1. Our integration, I think, does a really strong job of
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connecting us to that industry again with very limited clutter. Those kind of integrations and even the use of where
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you're seeing Clive appear is really about that onetoone marketing. It's
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really about trying to break through to develop that resonance. Um, you know, certainly it wouldn't be smart of me to
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lay out the entire playbook for you, but what I can say is that given the the depth and breadth of our business, 1,200
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locations, national brand, we still recognize the power of community. And so it really is about winning those local
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wars for share of mind, share of wallet. Uh and so we're getting very specific
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with our agencies in terms of geo fencing and targeting using tools like placer AI to help us build really strong
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strategies and again having the humility to recognize that to do it alone is one
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thing but it's a lot more fun and usually a lot more effective to do it with key partners. So we have a number
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of partnerships involved in take five that help us break through the clutter and really connect the brand on both an
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emotional and rational level. >> So okay so let's go back to this idea
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that and what's the name of your book? book I know you just recently >> the name of my book is moving your brand
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out of the friend zone >> right um and so this is this idea that you started off with that you've got to
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make it really personal and here you're talking about you know some people might
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think it's kind of a boring category you know a fast l you know oil change or
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something like that but you've tried to make this personal I guess through this
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Clive character can you is that like part of how you make it a personal relationship by building a character
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there. >> Well, I don't think Clive is a character as much as Clive really represents a
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platform. Um, you know, the human anxiety and the angst when that oil change light comes on or they look at
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the sticker and they realize that it's time for them to get their oil changed.
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There are human truths there that we need to capture. And I think Clive for us offers the opportunity to tap into
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those human truths and reflect them. Um, you know, unlike Flo, the progressive lady, um, or Jake from State Farm, Clive
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doesn't work for Take Five. Clive as a platform is the embodiment of what is going on in the mindset of the
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consumer. And so what you've seen with Clive is the pilot episode. Um, as I've
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come on board and working with our creative agency, we're in the process of kind of mapping what the the the 10
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episode deal will be. You know, where does that platform go? What are the stories that we're going to tell? It's
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way too early to share that. Happy to come back on when we've gotten a little
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further in our journey. But for us, I think what Clive allows us to do, it's a
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pathway to express what is going through the mind of the consumer when that light
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comes on and how to candidly our fast friendly service um solve that that tension um both on a practical as well
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as an emotional level. >> Okay. So, let's not get into the specifics, but I I really like this idea
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and I kind of want to dig deeper into it. So if you're giving advice to somebody who's trying to build this
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human connection for a brand, get out of the friend zone, which is your whole mantra, that's what you're trying to do.
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>> Would you suggest that people take their brand and put some human face on it in
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order to and use that, like you said, as a platform for thinking about the message? Is that kind of one way to
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implement this idea? >> Well, it's a way I wouldn't recommend it for every brand. I think where where I
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go with it is really understanding the mindset of your customer. And that really what you is what you need to do
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to move your brand out of the friend zone. You know, it's not enough to have
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a casual relationship with your consumer. They've really got to be invested in your brand. But there's also
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a humility that comes with it. You know, as a as a business that sees customers at best twice a year, um we have to
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recognize our place in the in the zeitgeist for our customers. And so we have to be very careful in terms of
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where we talk, how frequently we talk, and what we're saying um in order to be
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effective and not just be noise. And you know, as I'm coming on board and looking
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at our platform, working in our in our stores, talking to our teams, recognizing that there are opportunities
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to sort of deepen that. At the same time, you know, let's be real, this is an oil change. Um and so it there
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there's a pragmatic nature to solving a non-discretionary problem that we're
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doing. So it's not about kind of talking for talking sake. It's about leveraging
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human truths to create rational actions in order to stimulate business growth. >> Okay, let's look back. I'm cur I think
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it's really interesting that a Harvard case was built on your LA on one of your
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big brands at Pearl Vision. Can you did you exercise these kinds of concepts in those campaigns too?
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>> 100%. I mean, you know, I care as a highly commoditized category and, you
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know, Pearl Vision started in 1961 by Stanley Pearl had really lost its way. You know, had really been building its
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comp growth based on buy one get one. And, you know, part of the analysis that the Harvard case study profiled is what
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was this brand going to do in order to, as I like to say now, move out of the friend zone. You know, we were trying to
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be everything to everybody before I joined that business. And the reality is is that for me in particular, I
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recognized that we needed to be an eye care first brand. Eye care first, glasses second. Glasses was what we
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sold. I care is what we delivered. And so in developing the pathway for Pearl, it was really about getting into that
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mindset. What did somebody want when they were trusting somebody, you know, with their eyes? And you know, trust for
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me and what we ended up doing at Pearl was all about small moments of care and connection. It wasn't huge grand
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gestures like BOGO or 50% off. It was about showing that again customers that were coming in were going to be treated
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a certain way, were going to be respected a certain way and navigated through the journey that they were a
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part of. We weren't selling them glasses. We were guiding them into their perfect pair.
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>> And so what kind of campaigns did you run when you were there? Like >> so our our our Cleo and Effie
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award-winning campaign really focused on this. We called it the small moments. thinking small in order to win big. Um,
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we did an award-winning platform with Billy Jean King, who not only is a cultural icon around the world, but also
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is is, you know, famous for the impact that corrective eyewear had on her life. It was showcasing how our doctors went
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beyond, you know, the the person and really went to the person behind the eyes, really tapped into what was the
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angst, the tension, um, the need base that we were delivering at Pearl Vision. And that really helped distinguish us
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not only in the category but also against brands that Slo Exotica also owned like Lens Crafters. Um and the
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results were phenomenal. I think most importantly our trust meter skyrocketed. Our comp growth strong, our appointment
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strong, but most importantly I think we regained our reason for being you know our raise on detra in a very
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commoditized category and delivered an incredible experience and didn't have to
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discount because of it. Yeah, that's that's a really good story. You mentioned your trust meter that that
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reminds me of a natural question here. So you get these ideas is move out of the friend zone, try to figure out the
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way to implement that personal human connection, but then you do have to make sure it's working. So what are the kinds
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of metrics that you what does that trust meter mean? I mean look the the ultimate
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metrics are you know sales you know ibida revenue um traffic you know but there are also soft metrics you know
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you're measuring um through a brand health tracker that I would suggest that
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every marketer implements into their business sentiment uneducated brand awareness educated brand awareness
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consideration intent um you're looking at your Google star scores which is a
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really good mirror to the face it may not be the actuality of what you're delivering but it's the reality and It's
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really important to be looking at that NPS scores and then honestly, you know, getting out from behind your computer
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screen and working in your stores. You know, the most powerful tool that a marketer has at their disposal are the
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frontline associates. And at Take Five in particular, our techs embody what our brand is on our best day. And so being
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able to go into the pit, see what that action is like, listen to the dialogue they're having with our customers, you
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get a sense of of what we stand for in living, breathing embodiment. By doing that, and my job is to bring that back,
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figure out how we can harness it and reflect it in our campaigns. >> You know, I have what I know you have to
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go, but I have one last question as you're talking about that because you're
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talking about very human things. um getting into the you know into the store or the retail environment talking your
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frontline people finding the human connection and everybody today is talking about generative AI and
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algorithms. Can you just make a last statement on how you think those two worlds come together?
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>> Yeah, I mean look um technology is an enablement of us to work hopefully
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smarter and faster. But if you take generative AI, chat GBT is really about inputs and it's going to give you a very
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aneseptic diagnosis. It lacks emotion. And our job is marketers is to really blend both art and science. I love what
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AI can do for us. It could allow us to test. It could allow us to iterate. It could provide a mirror up to your face.
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And that's not just in business, but if you've ever had to write a very challenging email, I highly suggest
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putting it into chat GBT to really help you understand what are you saying both factually and emotionally. Um, for us, I
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think it's a tool in the toolbox and you know, you've got to use it for good, not
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for evil. And it's it's job of marketers like myself um to really figure out how
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to activate these to allow us to work smarter and faster. Absolutely nothing nothing replaces getting out into the
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field. Um I worked as an Avon lady when I was at Avon. I worked in the in in Victoria Secrets. Um
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>> I worked as an optitian in Pearl Vision and you know even within my first four
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weeks I've been uh in the pit, you know, under the car. Um although my wife will
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still not let me touch the automobile that we have at home, at least I got a sense of what we do every day. And I
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think that is such an incredible hands-on reason to be excited about not only Take Five but
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excited about the businesses that you have the privilege to be a part of. You know, Billy Jean King likes to say
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pressure is a privilege. The pressure that I put on myself is really to understand the business from the inside
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out and understand the consumer from heart and then mind and then wallet. Um, and that's what I'm in the process of
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doing right now. I >> just love this. I because everybody is talking about generative AI and you're
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digging deep into the importance of the human connection, the human experience and you're not negating the importance
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of generative AI. You know, it's a tool like you said in the toolbox, but it's
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not the only thing. And I know you have to run. So, let me just remind people of
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your book again, moving your brand out of the friend zone. And where can people go to find out what Clive what's
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happening with Clive and what's happening with Take Five Oil Change? >> Sure. I mean obviously um with the depth
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and breath of Take Five, it's pretty easy to find us. You can take a look at
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take five.com. You can visit our LinkedIn page um you know I would imagine in the next 6 to 12 months you
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will hear more about some of the initiatives that we're taking on and that um some ideas that I have that I'm
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in the process of kind of working through with the team. Um, I think the most important thing about Take Five is
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really that we are a challenger brand. Um, and you know, we really are focusing on delivering that incredible
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experience. Every single car that comes in is being treated as if they're the
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only car that's coming in that day. And that's a recipe for continued success in
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any business model. >> Yeah, that sounds great. Well, thank you very much for taking some time out to
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help us with this segment of our program. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you very much. I'm Barbara Khan
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and this is Marketing Matters. Uh today we had Doug Zarkin, the CMO of Take Five
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Oil Change. Um that's all we have time for today. Thank you all for listening.
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We'll be back next week. Till then, this has been Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast Network.
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