00:00:00
Jeremy
00:00:09
it is such a delight to be here with you
00:00:11
this morning and I want to just thank
00:00:13
you for taking some time to contribute
00:00:15
to our what I've learned Series so you
00:00:18
may know that we started this a couple
00:00:19
of years ago to highlight and capture
00:00:22
the legacy of some of our most esteemed
00:00:25
faculty members so the first person we
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did was Anita Summers you are now our
00:00:29
second guest and I'm excited for our
00:00:32
conversation
00:00:33
why am I honored to be your guest on
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this show thank you Erica thank you so
00:00:38
let's let's dive in and for the benefit
00:00:41
of our audience I'd love to just have
00:00:43
you walk us through
00:00:45
the beginning how did you come to this
00:00:48
point in your life where you are so
00:00:50
regarded and respected as sort of the
00:00:52
world's economist
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wow of course it's the the beginning of
00:00:58
the beginning
00:01:00
um
00:01:00
you know
00:01:02
I my mother always stressed the
00:01:05
importance of Education to me
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um both my both my parents went to
00:01:11
college I grew up in Chicago area
00:01:12
actually
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um and uh they really thought that you
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know getting ahead was is very important
00:01:20
on education and that was that was what
00:01:22
was was stressed
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um I was uh good in math
00:01:28
um uh I was I was interested in the
00:01:31
stock market but interestingly from a
00:01:34
different point of view than many of the
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others I was interested in what made the
00:01:38
market go up and down more than let me
00:01:40
pick a stock that I'm going to make a
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killing on and and do well and uh back
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in high school it's so so very different
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today back in high school uh even at the
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best in in the country there was no
00:01:54
economics classes that was considered a
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college only class and in fact
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interestingly enough not even a freshman
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class you're when I went to Columbia as
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my undergraduate it was uh the first
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time you could take it was a sophomore
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year I didn't take it until my junior
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year
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um uh but uh I I after two weeks I knew
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I wanted to be I wanted to be an
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economist I always knew I wanted to be a
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teacher so I found my subject
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um and it was just a matter of trying to
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get into the best place I could so you
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always knew you wanted to be a teacher
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where did that interest go I always
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you know when I was even really small
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like and uh uh high school and even even
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before high school I loved to tutor kids
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I mean if they were having trouble with
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their math or they're in trouble with
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chemistry or whatever else and I
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remember I was five hours an hour and I
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will tutor you for an hour to help you
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before a test and I I love doing it I
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love trying to explain and and
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um uh get to get that response
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um and I like being up before I was
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never afraid to be up before crowds and
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um I remember one of my classes in high
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school was called speech and I don't
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know if they have that anymore when I
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was in high school they did okay
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um and everyone else was like oh my God
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I have to get up before the class
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um I got up my my topic was what caused
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the stock market crash of 1929.
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as I read gabri yeah I read some some of
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the books about the the stock market
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crash I was interested and I loved
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giving it I mean you know and and uh you
00:03:45
know I had a few charts and everything
00:03:47
like that and I've I've always enjoyed
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lecturing and I've always enjoyed
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explaining uh different problems to
00:03:54
people
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all right so Columbia for undergraduate
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MIT foreign MIT for graduate school yes
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um if you were good in math and good in
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economics you want to go to graduate
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school MIT was actually
00:04:09
the place and I was so honored I got a
00:04:11
call from Paul Samuelson
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um I was in my dormitory in senior year
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and I applied to a number of schools and
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I I got into MIT but I didn't respond
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right away because it was other good
00:04:21
schools and he I remember I remember Sam
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Houston saying to me he said Jeremy I I
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did this is Paul Simon he said you know
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we sent out the invitation two weeks ago
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and you haven't said yes yet so we're
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wondering is there something wrong with
00:04:36
us at MIT I said oh no I just sort of
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delayed I'll get my app okay okay that's
00:04:41
good we would like to see you there so I
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went to MIT I loved it there at MIT
00:04:47
um spent four years I did one year post
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doc at Harvard
00:04:52
um actually under Marty feldstein it was
00:04:55
the chairman of council economic advisor
00:04:58
subsequently and my first teaching
00:05:00
position was The Graduate School of
00:05:02
Business at the University of Chicago
00:05:04
where I spent four years 72 to 76 until
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I came to Wharton
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so you've been at Wharton since 1976.
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almost 50 years almost half century it's
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almost unbelievable
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so I'd love to as someone who is
00:05:22
relatively new to warts and I've only
00:05:23
been here for three years what was it
00:05:25
like then and how have you seen the
00:05:28
school evolve in that period of time
00:05:31
so many changes of course it was only
00:05:34
Dietrich call back then when we were
00:05:36
talking about the Wharton School and
00:05:39
that uh what I guess was built in the
00:05:41
50s um so I was already aged
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um and it was a pretty old but we had
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tiny little offices
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I remember
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um and we had classrooms that were all
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about 42 with fixed desks it's nothing
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like what we you know what we what we
00:06:00
have uh today
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um
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uh but uh outside of that
00:06:06
um now it is important I think about two
00:06:09
years I came in 76 two years before I
00:06:11
came economics and political science
00:06:14
used to be in the Wharton School
00:06:17
and then they did what many other
00:06:19
liberal arts
00:06:21
economics and political science they
00:06:24
moved out into the liberal arts okay
00:06:26
school so it was it was you know it was
00:06:29
more controversy we had a good economics
00:06:32
division
00:06:34
um and particularly macroeconomics is
00:06:36
what I was was interested in my PhD
00:06:39
actually uh Erica was was not people say
00:06:43
did you get a PhD in finance and the
00:06:45
answer is no I got a PhD
00:06:48
and I think this is interesting I got a
00:06:50
PhD in economics
00:06:52
um monetary theory in Palestine they
00:06:54
said why didn't you go to finance I said
00:06:55
when I went for my PhD in 1967
00:07:00
Finance was hardly a subject I mean all
00:07:04
of the great theorems and capitalize the
00:07:06
pricing model Black Shoals theorem and
00:07:08
all that really got developed
00:07:09
subsequently so people told me if you're
00:07:12
interested sort of in the stock market
00:07:13
go in economics at that particular time
00:07:17
and really the field of Finance
00:07:21
blew up why I was doing that into now if
00:07:25
it was if I were 10 years younger I'd
00:07:28
probably back on my PhD in in finance
00:07:31
and not equal but I never regretted
00:07:35
the macro because I think that gave me a
00:07:39
really important perspective that I
00:07:42
don't think sometimes people who just do
00:07:45
their major in finance or get a PhD in
00:07:48
finance sometimes have
00:07:49
so then you were here to see the
00:07:52
evolution of the Wharton School become
00:07:54
this Behemoth and have this tremendous
00:07:57
Legacy in finance but the root of that
00:08:00
what I hear you saying it was really in
00:08:02
economics for me it was in it was an
00:08:04
economics and they needed economists
00:08:06
because we you know we required
00:08:08
macroeconomics as a course and actually
00:08:11
in in the first few years they were very
00:08:13
integrated with economics Department
00:08:14
even though they left the Wharton School
00:08:16
they taught some of our students I
00:08:18
taught you know I taught a number of
00:08:20
their students so there was a there was
00:08:22
a a big uh big uh difference of course
00:08:25
as you all know it used to be called the
00:08:28
Wharton School of finance and commerce
00:08:30
and
00:08:33
um of course then it got dropped because
00:08:34
it became so much broader I mean you
00:08:36
know I mean it has grown
00:08:39
enormously it and and in Prestige
00:08:43
um uh this I would probably
00:08:46
you know say we were having Wharton was
00:08:49
having a hard time breaking into the
00:08:50
Harvard uh you know Stanford Chicago
00:08:53
grouping there we were right below it
00:08:57
um but then as we came and particularly
00:09:01
under the the dean ship of Russ Palmer
00:09:03
who was
00:09:05
um
00:09:06
came when I was here uh you know really
00:09:10
up the push for excellence that brought
00:09:12
us right up into the that top grouping
00:09:14
yeah well we have you and your
00:09:17
colleagues from the time to thank for
00:09:19
for that for sure thank you so as you
00:09:21
have reflected on your life as an
00:09:23
economist and as you on your life as a
00:09:25
Wharton faculty School Professor how
00:09:28
would you describe your greatest
00:09:30
achievement or accomplishment in the
00:09:32
field of economics
00:09:34
wow I mean I would say the most
00:09:37
influential work that I ever did was the
00:09:42
book stocks for the long run
00:09:45
um
00:09:46
and actually it was very interesting
00:09:49
that that really came out of a project I
00:09:51
was doing with the late professor
00:09:53
Marshall bloom
00:09:55
was one of our most prominent professors
00:09:57
uh he actually called me up and said
00:09:59
Jeremy the New York Stock Exchange is
00:10:01
having a 200th anniversary they want us
00:10:03
to do some history I know you're
00:10:05
interested in the stock market I said
00:10:07
I'll take the dad apart I went all the
00:10:09
way back to beginning in 19th century
00:10:10
look looking at data I wrote a number of
00:10:13
academic articles to be gotten in
00:10:15
journals
00:10:16
um and came to some conclusions and then
00:10:19
a lot of my colleagues began to say
00:10:21
Jeremy you could you could turn that
00:10:24
into a book and I said you know maybe I
00:10:28
will turn that into a book and I I I I
00:10:31
turned it into a book
00:10:34
um writing in the late uh 1980s uh got
00:10:39
the book out in the early 90s it finally
00:10:42
hit publication May of 94 the first
00:10:45
edition and the reviews were just really
00:10:48
really pretty spectacular and it sort of
00:10:52
took off for there we have I just
00:10:54
finished the sixth edition of that book
00:10:57
we've sold you don't not almost a half a
00:11:01
million copies through through these 30
00:11:03
years of that book not as much as a
00:11:07
burton mock Hills random walk uh uh down
00:11:10
Wall Street but
00:11:12
um who I which the person and the book I
00:11:15
admire in fact I think a lot of times I
00:11:17
said I'm writing that book because I
00:11:19
wanted a book to read for students to
00:11:21
read after they read that famous book on
00:11:24
on one I think his results a couple of
00:11:26
million but I'm uh I I've it's really
00:11:29
had an influence and
00:11:32
um I've given talks around the world on
00:11:36
topics related to what is in the book
00:11:38
and how it relates to the current events
00:11:40
well I want to stick with that topic of
00:11:43
the book stocks for the long run when
00:11:46
you wrote it you argued that long-term
00:11:49
investments in stocks were better than
00:11:52
say gold or bonds do you still think
00:11:55
that that's the case and and tell us
00:11:57
more how your thinking may have evolved
00:11:59
or why it hasn't evolved well you know
00:12:01
what your what you said is absolutely
00:12:03
right but the the a lot of people had
00:12:07
thought that would be the case and that
00:12:09
was confirmed what what I I went a
00:12:12
little further and showed that over
00:12:15
periods of 20 30 years often 10 and 20
00:12:19
30 years but to go he wants 20 and 30
00:12:21
years not only did stocks give you a
00:12:24
higher return but they were less
00:12:26
volatile now we now all know
00:12:29
how volatile stocks are in the short run
00:12:33
um but in the long run a lot of the ups
00:12:36
and downs even out and they become more
00:12:39
stable as long-term Investments and I
00:12:42
think that really was what caught so
00:12:45
many people by surprising me so if I
00:12:47
don't get panicked at the ups and downs
00:12:51
of the short-term market and keep it in
00:12:53
I actually have a better chance of
00:12:57
realizing higher reaches higher Returns
00:12:59
on Lower volatility it's like having
00:13:00
your cake and eat it too right this that
00:13:03
was really what resonated is it still
00:13:05
going to be true yes I don't know I'm
00:13:09
projecting returns in the future on
00:13:11
stocks a little bit lower than my
00:13:13
historical levels and we can we can talk
00:13:15
about that if you want but um uh still
00:13:18
far above bonds gold uh you know the
00:13:22
dollar and any other broad investment
00:13:25
class
00:13:27
so economics as you know is a social
00:13:29
science my
00:13:31
field is in Psychology and other social
00:13:33
science and I think the two are very
00:13:35
similar because it really is
00:13:36
understanding human behavior so as you
00:13:39
think about and work with your students
00:13:42
or when you are featured on CNBC and
00:13:45
you're talking with people how do you
00:13:48
capture the psychology associated with
00:13:52
Investments and making
00:13:54
decisions connected to the stock market
00:13:56
I think psychology is hugely important
00:14:00
my very good friend Bob shower
00:14:04
um who from from Yale University really
00:14:08
almost pioneered what's called
00:14:11
behavioral Finance which shows you that
00:14:14
it's not just you know the analytics but
00:14:18
also the psychology that causes people
00:14:21
and a lot of people to make investment
00:14:23
mistakes and I recognize that and that's
00:14:26
why you have this short term about
00:14:28
people get over pessimistic in this
00:14:31
short run when things go bad and they
00:14:33
get over optimistic uh you know in the
00:14:36
short run when things go good and then
00:14:38
it and then it reverses so
00:14:41
you have the short-term momentum but um
00:14:44
I I think it was actually Warren Buffett
00:14:46
which who who said yeah in the short run
00:14:49
the stock market is a voting machine but
00:14:52
in the long run it is a weighing machine
00:14:54
meaning the fundamentals will come out
00:14:57
you won't be able to hide in the long
00:15:00
run I try to stick really focused on
00:15:03
those fundamentals and try I think I do
00:15:07
my best when I give lectures in Bear
00:15:09
markets to keep people calm and in the
00:15:12
market and a lot of people have thanked
00:15:14
me they said you know I was ready to get
00:15:16
out I was so upset I heard you and I
00:15:19
stayed in and I'm very pleased that I
00:15:21
did
00:15:22
well let's let's pick up on that theme
00:15:25
so
00:15:27
in my own background I studied crises
00:15:30
right I know that and when I started as
00:15:33
dean of the Wharton School it was the
00:15:35
first few months of the pandemic which
00:15:36
was a very significant crisis at the
00:15:39
world faced and thinking about my role
00:15:42
and responsibility as a leader to help
00:15:44
navigate Wharton through that period of
00:15:46
time you are sort of the go-to person
00:15:51
when it comes to thinking about the
00:15:53
stocks and and the stock market has been
00:15:55
volatile as you've indicated and there
00:15:57
have been times when we have experienced
00:15:59
crises in that regard how do you help
00:16:01
navigate people through those so I want
00:16:04
to just pick up on what you were
00:16:05
describing yeah and that and that covet
00:16:07
crisis actually caused the fastest bear
00:16:09
Market in history actually I mean you
00:16:13
know it came on so suddenly we all
00:16:14
remember you know the middle of March in
00:16:16
the next three weeks it was the
00:16:19
strongest sharpest I I've I was on many
00:16:22
times on CNBC I said you know pandemics
00:16:27
come to an end you know we looked at the
00:16:29
Spanish flu and uh this is definitely
00:16:32
going to be a shock and I even talked
00:16:33
about if there's a year that people
00:16:35
don't get have earnings uh
00:16:38
that if you take a look at stocks Now
00:16:41
Stocks are long-lived assets they're
00:16:43
infinitely lift so even one year or even
00:16:47
two year of poor earnings as long as we
00:16:50
rebound
00:16:53
should not tank the market anywhere near
00:16:56
the 30 percent that happened I I you
00:16:58
know I said I don't know how far it's
00:17:00
going to go because you're right that
00:17:01
psychology was I said but long term
00:17:04
we're we're going to solve that we're
00:17:05
going to get a vaccine I was very
00:17:07
optimistic that we were going to develop
00:17:09
a vaccine I said two years from now
00:17:12
we're going to be largely back to normal
00:17:14
so you know if you do the math two years
00:17:17
even of poor earnings um we did go
00:17:20
through a recession that was even short
00:17:21
it was a short one it was even not as
00:17:24
bad as even I had feared I said looking
00:17:27
beyond that
00:17:30
um and plugging that into all valuation
00:17:33
formulas you're going to get great
00:17:35
returns if you buy right now even though
00:17:37
things look look Bleak they definitely
00:17:41
looked Bleak for a while but I think
00:17:43
it's so ironic or interesting that your
00:17:46
optimism and US finding a vaccine
00:17:50
actually as you know the MRNA technology
00:17:53
was here
00:17:55
the University of Pennsylvania uh yeah I
00:17:58
was I was I was following it very very
00:18:01
closely and you know I mean um I mean to
00:18:04
be out you know we to get back I know
00:18:07
some of the doctors were vaccinated in
00:18:08
December of that year but I I uh many of
00:18:11
us especially older people got
00:18:13
vaccinated in January and February
00:18:15
you're talking about less than a year
00:18:19
um into that and
00:18:22
um uh you know saved millions of lives
00:18:25
to say the least
00:18:27
one of the things that is a topic of
00:18:30
conversation
00:18:31
it has been pretty
00:18:34
people have been very vocal about this
00:18:35
recently and that is the sort of
00:18:39
increasing wage Gap and income
00:18:42
inequality that wealth Gap that exists
00:18:44
between people within this country and
00:18:47
certainly around the world
00:18:49
what do you
00:18:51
identify as some of the root causes for
00:18:53
that kind of extreme inequality that
00:18:56
we're seeing I think what's most
00:18:57
important
00:19:00
um and people could talk about the Gap I
00:19:02
think what I would love is the people at
00:19:06
the bottom in the middle to go up you
00:19:09
know I'm not going to begrudge the
00:19:11
billionaires the billionaires
00:19:13
um yeah some of them made incredible
00:19:15
contribution what's important
00:19:17
is that we bring the people at the
00:19:20
bottom up that we give them the the
00:19:23
opportunities
00:19:25
that we have an educational system at
00:19:28
the lower lesson at the higher level
00:19:29
important is the Pinnacle I mean I mean
00:19:32
I was privileged I came from as I said
00:19:34
at the beginning you know my mom
00:19:36
education was everything and I know a
00:19:38
lot of these kids they may be smart and
00:19:40
they go back home and the education is
00:19:43
not important to the kids they've got to
00:19:45
be an environment that they can
00:19:48
flourish and you know both before school
00:19:51
and after school and during school and
00:19:53
be among peers that feel the way that
00:19:55
they do in terms of
00:19:57
of it's worthwhile to gain the knowledge
00:20:00
because I think there are opportunities
00:20:02
out there
00:20:03
known as a
00:20:06
prognosticator of the future
00:20:08
they call me a guru and I tell people
00:20:10
there are no gurus really he may be the
00:20:14
exception to that but if we stick with
00:20:17
around the wealth Gap what happens in
00:20:21
this country if we don't find ways to
00:20:24
eventually close that wealth Gap or in
00:20:25
your words bring the bottom up what's
00:20:28
the long-term prognosis
00:20:30
prognosis is not good and I think that's
00:20:33
essential for
00:20:35
any country to survive I think the U.S
00:20:37
would lose status around the world I
00:20:39
mean you know I think back in the 60s I
00:20:41
mean I you know I look at statistics uh
00:20:45
I came from public high school a good
00:20:47
one in the suburbs of Chicago
00:20:49
um and you know the public high schools
00:20:53
were very highly regarded and the SAT
00:20:55
scores were very good and the
00:20:58
achievement levels were good and an
00:20:59
international scale the United States
00:21:01
was like in in the top ten now on these
00:21:05
International things we're in the middle
00:21:07
or the bottom which is appalling
00:21:10
um you know we are at the top
00:21:13
in graduate education the and Wharton
00:21:17
and all the grad grad colleges is
00:21:20
another problem but undergraduate
00:21:22
education we're the top when you go down
00:21:24
to the primary and secondary schools
00:21:25
that's where that's where we we are
00:21:28
falling down and have fallen down I
00:21:30
think over the last half century and
00:21:34
um that's where we have to bring
00:21:37
ourselves out you you can't have poorly
00:21:40
educated
00:21:42
um population
00:21:43
and expect to get the opportunities and
00:21:47
be the the type of
00:21:50
um country that you want to be yeah I
00:21:53
agree with you
00:21:54
as someone who has been teaching
00:21:56
economics for nearly 50 years
00:22:00
how do you keep your teaching your ideas
00:22:02
your curricula fresh and Innovative for
00:22:06
students because
00:22:07
you know the field has changed pretty
00:22:09
dramatically and how do you how do you
00:22:13
remain relevant and Innovative in the
00:22:15
content that you're sharing well I think
00:22:18
that this is what I think was very
00:22:22
unique about my classes and worked out
00:22:24
very well
00:22:26
um
00:22:26
a few years after I came here I only
00:22:30
taught I started out teaching only the
00:22:31
undergraduates and the PhD students not
00:22:35
mbas
00:22:36
and the chairman of my department
00:22:41
brought me in and said
00:22:43
um
00:22:44
you know Jeremy I want to talk to you
00:22:45
I've heard that you've been teaching
00:22:47
some classes JP Morgan the Morgan
00:22:48
Finance program and you've been mixing
00:22:51
Market information in with real serious
00:22:54
material on all breath we're not I'll be
00:22:57
honest with you our mbas don't don't
00:23:00
like our macro class they think it's too
00:23:03
theoretical it doesn't match it would
00:23:06
you
00:23:06
think about developing a class
00:23:10
where you mix what's going on in the
00:23:13
financial markets in with macro I said
00:23:15
I'd love to that's what I that's what
00:23:17
I'd love to do and I worked on
00:23:19
developing that class the first 20 to 30
00:23:22
minutes of every class I go through
00:23:25
what's going on in the markets
00:23:27
stock market up and down dollar up and
00:23:29
down bonds up or down interest rates why
00:23:32
is that happen
00:23:34
how does that mesh with what we're does
00:23:37
that correspond to the model that I'm
00:23:40
building for you in terms of of trying
00:23:43
to understand the interconnections
00:23:45
between all these important variables
00:23:47
and that caught on that became that you
00:23:51
know all of a sudden the ratings were
00:23:53
really great for for macro
00:23:56
um
00:23:57
um and my class is expanded from 40 and
00:24:00
when Steinberg came in to donate money
00:24:03
to make Senator Dietrich what we what we
00:24:05
know today and it was 150 in the
00:24:07
classroom that became and that filled up
00:24:10
I once had to teach in g06 which was uh
00:24:13
how many people 350 largest class from
00:24:16
350. one person said Jeremy someday
00:24:19
you'll have to teach in Franklin Field
00:24:21
and I said well I think that's too many
00:24:25
but um uh that that's what mixing in the
00:24:31
current events
00:24:33
with the theory you're teaching so they
00:24:36
don't seem disconnected
00:24:39
is is really what gives the people the
00:24:43
motivation and as you probably had had
00:24:46
heard um
00:24:47
I used to allow students a lot of people
00:24:50
said doctor said I'm not here I talked
00:24:52
to class last year I I'm not taking this
00:24:54
year but could I sit in on the first 20
00:24:56
minutes of your class
00:24:58
and I said if you stand quietly in the
00:25:01
back and then I had a group of people
00:25:03
they but they were quiet and they were
00:25:04
really good and serious
00:25:06
um and I would allow them in now now
00:25:08
that we have the internet and you know
00:25:10
the fact that it's filmed they don't
00:25:12
have to come to the class the way they
00:25:13
did let's say in the uh in the in the
00:25:17
1990s and and after what happened but uh
00:25:19
I used to have uh you know maybe up to
00:25:22
50 60 come in for those first 20 minutes
00:25:24
which was called the market review
00:25:26
market review by Siegel and
00:25:29
um uh you know many of them you know
00:25:32
that were really interested in
00:25:33
financials to do that but again what
00:25:35
made it a success was combining the
00:25:38
theory with the practice the with
00:25:40
combining an explanation of the markets
00:25:42
because out before that you know macro
00:25:45
was just a lot of the people that
00:25:48
developed macro years ago really weren't
00:25:49
interested in the stock market financial
00:25:51
markets they thought it was very
00:25:53
separate and I said no they're connected
00:25:56
and I'm going to try to show you what
00:25:58
those connections desire well there have
00:26:00
been generations of students who have
00:26:01
benefited from your bringing together
00:26:04
the markets with the theory so thank you
00:26:08
for for that
00:26:09
let's stay with our students for a
00:26:11
minute again you've been at the Wharton
00:26:13
School for a long time you've seen
00:26:16
students come and go how do you describe
00:26:19
the student of today versus the student
00:26:22
of maybe 30 or 40 years ago what's
00:26:24
different about that well you know in a
00:26:26
way I'm the one students I think have
00:26:29
kept on getting better and better
00:26:31
um and and and that I I get a lot of I
00:26:35
mean I have colleagues at other
00:26:36
universities who say oh aren't the
00:26:38
students getting worse and I said well I
00:26:40
do hear that from other places but it's
00:26:43
not true for not true of my students for
00:26:46
for work now where were the challenges
00:26:50
come
00:26:51
um I think is is in the MBA system it's
00:26:55
it this is what changed the most now
00:26:57
remember I taught my first four years at
00:26:59
The Graduate School of Business
00:27:00
University of Chicago we were we took
00:27:02
the youngest of all well actually the
00:27:04
average person was out from college only
00:27:06
two years
00:27:08
believe it or not and and we took a big
00:27:11
contingent that just got their ba degree
00:27:14
and went right to The Graduate School of
00:27:15
Business so they were very very
00:27:17
interested now as time has gone on at
00:27:19
all schools as you know the age has
00:27:22
gotten higher and higher now as the age
00:27:25
gets higher these people have families
00:27:27
they have you know professions they get
00:27:31
farther away from
00:27:34
oh God do I you know I thought I left
00:27:37
final exams right eight years ago so
00:27:42
um I think to some of them
00:27:44
um it's it becomes more challenging than
00:27:46
it was earlier when they were closer to
00:27:48
the undergraduates to do the same type
00:27:51
of rigorous work although Wharton is so
00:27:53
selective we still get the best and are
00:27:56
able to do that but what I hear at other
00:27:59
schools is that's not happening
00:28:02
um as much so that is changing because I
00:28:04
think of the increase in the average age
00:28:06
of the in the mbas the PhD students are
00:28:09
still you know very serious and as I
00:28:12
said the it seems as the word in
00:28:13
undergraduates just get better and
00:28:16
better I mean I've I've been honored
00:28:18
because the last uh well I've always
00:28:20
taught an honors class and I always said
00:28:23
wow and the the honors students of
00:28:26
Wharton are
00:28:27
the best in the world our undergraduates
00:28:30
are absolutely incredible without
00:28:32
question for sure
00:28:34
would you so as a Dean I'm constantly
00:28:37
thinking about how to position the
00:28:40
school for ongoing and continued success
00:28:42
and the curriculum is a part of that
00:28:45
portfolio are there things you would
00:28:47
advise me in terms of how we should be
00:28:50
thinking about the the curricula and
00:28:52
what's relevant what content what topic
00:28:54
should we be well I mean look at how
00:28:56
much is new now look at ESG and which
00:28:59
was total you know came out of nowhere
00:29:02
um uh in my in fact in the sixth edition
00:29:04
my book I have old chapter on ESG it
00:29:07
wasn't before in the sixth edition of
00:29:09
the book I whole part on
00:29:10
cryptocurrencies uh which was never
00:29:13
before
00:29:14
um I think the Departments have taken
00:29:17
the lead and many of them gotten the
00:29:19
courses let's get slower to be added
00:29:21
into textbooks and and the more
00:29:23
traditional things because you're used
00:29:25
to doing that but you know someone that
00:29:28
that's you know you got to know where
00:29:30
you know where are the research topics
00:29:32
going they're always changing um
00:29:35
pro and con you know there's a lot of
00:29:37
controversy about ESG investing but
00:29:39
there's a lot of really good analytical
00:29:41
work that's been done on that free of
00:29:43
some the politics that that often
00:29:47
surround uh that that issue so yeah I
00:29:51
mean you always have to be aware and I
00:29:54
think Morton has been good at being at
00:29:58
you know at introducing new topics that
00:30:02
you know others are talking about uh
00:30:04
early on so um you know it's important
00:30:08
to continue that trend
00:30:10
so artificial intelligence is one of
00:30:12
those new buzzwords shall we say
00:30:19
about that and yeah what role might that
00:30:21
play that exploded into the marketplace
00:30:24
right now
00:30:26
um
00:30:28
uh I'm I'm I myself you know I've been
00:30:32
thinking about it I'm getting you know
00:30:35
all the manifestations of it now again
00:30:38
it it's I I I I think two things first
00:30:42
of all check GPT obviously number one
00:30:44
but uh you know very recently uh you
00:30:48
know one of the biggest uh you know chip
00:30:51
designers Nvidia that came out with
00:30:53
explosive earnings so this sparked Wall
00:30:55
Street I mean you know okay you can talk
00:30:57
about all these Innovations but do they
00:30:59
make money oh well this chip May Burma
00:31:02
now the thing is you got it that's stage
00:31:05
one you know it's it's often like uh you
00:31:09
know they're providing nuts and bolts
00:31:10
but those people are paying for this
00:31:12
have to be able to charge more for in
00:31:15
other words they have to provide a
00:31:16
service in above that I'll pay oh I'll
00:31:20
up my pay because I'm going to get that
00:31:22
much better service for what I need
00:31:24
that's that's more challenging I mean
00:31:26
and now everyone says I want to chips I
00:31:28
want the best chips so Nvidia is going
00:31:30
to do star now we well the next thing is
00:31:32
how much more can I charge for those
00:31:34
chips and more about competition and all
00:31:36
the rest
00:31:37
um it reminds me you know in a way
00:31:40
but Adam and not the crazy level but in
00:31:43
a way very much at the the beginning of
00:31:45
the internet of
00:31:47
1998-99 when you know ever yeah everyone
00:31:51
the internet was going to change the
00:31:52
world and anyone had a.com at the end of
00:31:55
their name uh you know you know went to
00:31:57
a thousand times uh earnings or or
00:32:00
non-earnings uh
00:32:03
nobody's a profitable company so we're
00:32:06
not this is not some people are saying
00:32:08
this is nowhere near the craziness I
00:32:10
went I was here during the craziness so
00:32:12
I remember it
00:32:14
um so this is much more solidly that
00:32:16
doesn't mean these things can't get over
00:32:18
valued they often do whenever you know
00:32:21
new things come there over excitement
00:32:24
you know when that pace will be is is
00:32:26
another thing but there it this is these
00:32:29
are the sort of things
00:32:31
um that happen and push the world
00:32:34
forward
00:32:35
um uh yeah yeah AI has challenges
00:32:39
um I think it could be used for teaching
00:32:43
um I Heard a one Professor who said that
00:32:45
his classroom got much better because
00:32:48
he used Chachi BT to do answer questions
00:32:52
and then ask the students to say what
00:32:56
was wrong with the answer that chat gbd
00:32:59
did and that was challenging for them
00:33:01
because they had to look for the right
00:33:03
answers
00:33:05
um and uh you know so in a way you have
00:33:08
to be really careful it can do a lot of
00:33:10
a lot of things but when it has to be
00:33:13
really precise
00:33:17
um you know sort of like autonomous
00:33:18
driving I mean you don't want to be 98
00:33:22
right yeah
00:33:25
chat gbt is I don't even know if it's I
00:33:29
don't even think it's 98 right
00:33:32
so I mean it it gathers a lot of
00:33:35
information and and summarizes very very
00:33:37
quickly that's already on the web we
00:33:39
know there's a lot of bad informational
00:33:40
level as well as good it does some job
00:33:42
at curating that not a lot but these are
00:33:46
you know the challenges that uh you know
00:33:48
any new technology is going to have to
00:33:52
face in the future yeah
00:33:54
well I tell you Professor Siegel the
00:33:57
impact that you have had not only at the
00:33:59
Wharton School but certainly at the
00:34:01
warden school but the impact that you've
00:34:03
had in the world with your great mind
00:34:05
your ability to communicate your ideas
00:34:07
your passion for your subject matter
00:34:10
really we are better for having known
00:34:13
you and interacted with you and had the
00:34:16
privilege of working with you so thank
00:34:18
you so much for for spending time and
00:34:20
you know I want to thank you know
00:34:21
Wharton for allowing me to to use my
00:34:25
talents as effectively I mean I it was
00:34:28
the best place for me to be without
00:34:31
question and I really
00:34:33
cherish those years thank you thank you
00:34:37
[Music]
