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Welcome, welcome everyone to this week's episode of Wharton Moneyball, the place
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where sports statistics and sometimes even a little bit of business collide. This is Eric Bradler, professor of
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marketing, statistics, and data science at the Wharton School. I'm here joined
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by my colleague, my longtime friend and collaborator Shane Jensen, professor of statistics and data science here at the
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Wharton School. Some combination of us, Cade Massie and Audi Winer are here every week on Wharton Moneyball. Well,
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Shane, this is one of those great moments. I'll say for myself and my life, but I know it's also true for our
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Wharton Moneyball listeners. If we think about where really the term even Wharton
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Moneyball started or Moneyball started, it was through the analytics of baseball
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and it really was. I mean, it was the work with Billy Bean, the Oakland A's.
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Obviously, it got popularized with a large movie that was done. It kind of brought it to the forefront. And you and
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I have talked about this many times. One of the greatest moments of the fact that
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we get to host this show is we get to talk to people that are living this living the world of sports. And I think
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every one of our listeners on Wart Moneyball knows how much the Baseball Hall of Fame has meant and does continue
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to mean to my family and myself. I always say it was the if anybody wants to give their loved one a birthday
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present that ends in a five or a zero, 25, 30, 35, 40. In my case, my family waited till I was 50 uh to have a
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membership to the Baseball Hall of Fame. But Shane, I I can't tell you how thrilled and honored I am to have to
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introduce Josh Raich. Uh as everyone knows that's listened to our show, Josh
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is the president of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. I didn't actually know before seeing a little bit of the
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rundown. Maybe we can even ask Josh to start there. He's a former senior executive with the Arizona Diamondbacks
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and the Los Angeles Dodgers. Um, so Josh, first on behalf of myself, my colleague Shane Jensen, welcome to
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Wharton Moneyball. >> Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me on here and and certainly appreciate
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your passion for the game. I I can tell this is going to be a fun uh a fun podcast.
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>> Well, it will be. And uh for those people Well, people will be watching the
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video. I'm actually wearing part by By the way, I think I have 10 pieces now of
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swag from the professional the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Um as I I took a picture to Josh the other day. I teach
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my NBA students in this gear and actually one of my students Josh you'll find this funny said I thought you were
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a I thought when you wrote member I thought you were in the baseball hall of fame like uh no I can only dream I said
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but why why don't we start with the following could you tell people a little
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bit about your background in baseball like the work that you did with the Diamondbacks and the Dodgers and how all
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of that started >> yeah well I I was very fortunate I went to Indiana University um so fortunate
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enough in that the football school that everybody knows and loves. But I I my freshman year a professor just said,
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"Hey, send your resume to your hometown team. You never know what would happen."
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And the reality is I didn't even have a resume at that point. The world was different in 1995. And you couldn't just
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send off a resume to the Dodgers and land an internship. But I did that um with a little bit of just
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resourcefulness calling around and trying to trying to land an interview. And I was able to get that. And um it
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really took about 10 days of working, if even that long, before I went, "Oh man,
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this is what I want to do with the rest of my life." Like I had no I thought I
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wanted to be a broadcaster. And I wound up realizing, "Wow, there's a whole
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front office of things to do, whether it's on the baseball side, the business
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side." And so I was fortunate to basically be at the Dodgers from um as an intern for three consecutive summers,
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and then uh started full-time with them back in 1998, more in the marketing and advertising area. Um, I I moved over to
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public relations uh in 2000 and then actually left for a couple of years when MLB Advanced Media was being built out.
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I got a chance to help build the MLB.com sites as you now know them and then came
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back to the communications world where I stayed all the way through some chaotic
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times of the Dodgers. Um, and I was very fortunate. I learned a ton in those early years as things were a little
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crazy during um, the Dodgers non-winning years. But right around 2011, the Diamondbacks um Derek Hall, who was a
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very significant baseball executive and um president of the Diamondbacks convinced me to move to Arizona where he
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kind of taught me how to run an organization over a decade from 2011 to 21. And that's when uh the Hall of Fame
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came calling. So I'm guessing some of the other Dodger and Dimeback stuff may
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come up as we're talking, but that's the quick version of uh how I ended up here
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in Coopertown. >> So just tell me, how does that conversation go? How do you go from a
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senior executive in baseball to the president of the National Baseball Hall of Fame? Did you know Jane Forbes Clark,
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who you know, uh, for those people that don't know, people know the Forbes family in baseball? I believe Jane
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Forbes Clark is the granddaughter, if I've got this right, of the like one of
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the original pioneers of baseball. And I see her, of course, just like I see you
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every year in Coopertown. Did you had you met her? Is that was she chairperson of the board back then? And did she
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contact you? >> Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So her grandfather, Jane Forbes Clark, it's
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actually um Forbes, I think her mother's maiden name, and Clark is actually her
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grandfather's name. He was the one who created the Baseball Hall of Fame along
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with Ford Frick. So she has been chairman for over a quarter century. She's been involved in the Hall of Fame
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since the day she was born. It's been in her family since it it started. Um and
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when the previous president, a gentleman by the name of Jeff Idolen, was leaving,
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I guess he he was he was retiring and he gave them a list of people that he thought might be good at doing this job.
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And um for the students maybe in the Wharton school who are watching this, I mean I could tell you like I I often
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think about a random golf tournament I played in the Dominican Republic where I wound up in a forome with Jeff. And I
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don't think without that he ever thinks, "Hey, this guy could have my job
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someday." But you know, you spend 18 hours talking to somebody and getting to
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know them. And over time I got to know Jeff. Um and so I remember he called me one day. I was pulling into the parking
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lot in spring training probably probably February 24th. I don't know what date it
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was, but um and uh he said, "Hey, would you ever think about my job? There's a
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few of you guys we've identified who we want to interview for this." And I was
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very close to saying, "Thank you, but I am not moving to Coopertown, New York.
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I'm I'm good." And something told me, "Hey, let's let's let's wait and talk to
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my wife about it." And when I did, she said, "How would you ever turn down that
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opportunity if you got that?" And so, we went through the process and here we are
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5 years later living with our family in this amazing baseball mecca. Let me just
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say one more thing before I ask Yeah, I'll turn things back over to Kade to kind of lead us in these conversation
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topics. There's a lot of interesting things going on at the Hall of Fame. Um,
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what do you see your role as like what do you do as the president of the Baseball Hall of Fame and let me just
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say again to our listeners out there, if you and I grew up, as all of our listeners, I grew up in Manhattan in New
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York City. I didn't grow up in a small town, but if you've never been to
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Coopertown, New York, you must go. Like the thing that surprised my mother cuz again I took my mother there when she
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was 91 years old. You literally just walk up to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Like you're walking down Main Street at
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Coopertown and you hit the end of the street and there it is on the right hand side. Like you know it's just you you
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you expect it to be like oh there's like a I don't know a 20,000 seat parking lot
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right there and everything. No, you just walk right up and you walk right in. So
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can you tell us what do you do in your job? But what do you see as the main responsibilities of it?
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>> Well, first and foremost, we're a nonprofit. So, we are an independent. A
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lot of people think we're owned and operated by MLB, but we're not. We So,
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of course, fundraising and a missiondriven approach to things is part of my job. Um, and so it's we're we're
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all about preserving history. That's the 40,000 artifacts and three million documents. All these incredible things
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in our collection. We honor excellence and that's kind of the administration of
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the Hall of Fame. So that's the thing most people are probably familiar with.
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The debates over who belongs in and who who and when and how do they get elected. All of that is part of the job.
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Um and then connecting generations which is really something I think we do. You just talked about I mean we do it better
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than any place on the planet and you watch it happen. I just came from the conference room before we jumped on here
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and you walk past a grandparent and a parent and a and a kid and they're having this incredible conversation. Um,
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and so that's really what our mission is. And I'd say in a lot of ways, my
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role is not all that different than a CEO or president of any institution. I mean, ultimately got about a 100
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full-time people. Our leadership team is six different department heads. And so ultimately, myself and that group sets
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the vision. We try to make sure that people have what they need. And then we try to hire really good people to go out
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and do their jobs and and make this place what you're talking about, this incredibly special spot on the planet.
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So, um, again, I'm sure I'll drop in some other things that I get to do over
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over uh the the course of a year, but that's really I mean, it's it's it's the
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chief executive role of any institution. You're you're responsible uh for the
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good, the bad, the ugly, I guess. >> Let me turn things over to Cade who's
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going to then I think lead our discussion through a few topics and of course we will get of course I've had
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got a bunch of questions about analytics in the Hall of Fame, but I know there's
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so much going on given the 250th anniversary of America. you know the old expression, there's nothing more
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American than baseball. So, obviously you guys have a role, but let me turn things over to Kate.
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>> Well, I'm I'm curious to hear you talk about knowing something about it and
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then hearing you talk about it, but also realizing how much the game is evolving
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some. And um there's it feels like in baseball more than any other sport, there's this constant tension between
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honoring the past and innovating. And um frankly I think most people celebrate some of the recent innovations that have
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been helpful in keeping the game kind of booant in people's eyes and the fans and
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new fans. So I'm cur I mean you sit in this place where you know you're preserving the past but you're also
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honoring excellence and you're also connecting generations. So it has some of the same tension but how do you as as
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sitting on top of that which is kind of the the citadel to the history of baseball. How do you experience that
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tension and where where are you navigating that tension between innovating and staying in touch and
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staying contemporary and yet also connecting to the past? >> Well, I mean the reality is you just hit
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on I think the single biggest challenge we have and I think our staff all the time tells me um like they they hear me
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say all the time our job is to keep this place relevant for the next generation of fans. I know that you guys would love
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this place. I know that our parents would love it. Our grandparents would love it. It's how do we get my now
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18-year-old and 15year-old to love it and how do we get the 12-year-olds who come out here and mass for baseball
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tournaments to love it and how do we get people to essentially from the moment that they give a thought they hear about
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Coopertown in a broadcast um somebody mentions oh this person's Coopertown bound or oh this person is in Coopertown
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how do you get them from that moment of thinking about going all the way through
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the planning process the coming to Coopertown the experience being top-notch to becoming a member. As Eric
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said, you don't have to wait till your your zero or your five birthday. You can
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do it for any birthday. Um, and then frankly, how do you how once they've been here, because for many people it's
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a once in a-lifetime thing. Once they've come, how do you get them to stay engaged as a as a member and as a donor
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and then eventually put, believe it or not, put us in your will, which a lot of people do. It's like, how do you
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literally go from the beginning of life till the end of life as a lover of the Hall of Fame? And I think the way that
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we're doing that now, to really answer your question, because I got off a little bit, it it's thinking about how
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do people experience the Hall of Fame. It it it used to be just through I mean, when you walked in here in 1939, it was
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a small one room museum with some artifacts and some labels. And over time, we've evolved the exhibits to be
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more thematic and less timeline based and and then eventually now, I mean, the one that we just opened, which was um
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last summer called Yakyu Baseball, the Trans-Pacific Exchange of the Game, it's
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probably the most interactive and engaging thing we've ever done. It's it's less artifacts. It's more touch
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screens and video games and things that you can do. And we've been doing that
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for a lot of years, but continuing to figure out the genesis of of how you use your phone as you walk through it. but
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don't ruin the experience because you've got your head buried in the phone and
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how do you use AI but don't ruin it by going so far AI that nobody knows if this is real or fake. It's all those
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things. It is a crazy balance that we all have to think about and it's it's
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probably the biggest challenge that we'll have from now till whenever I'm
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doing this job. >> Shane, let me hold you off for one second. Let me ask one followup, then
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we're going to go to Shane. My one followup is okay, what's what organizational processes do you follow
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to try to hit that balance, right? like how do you pull in good innovation and keep out bad innovation? How do you
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strike that right balance? How do you experiment enough and not too much organizationally as a leader? What are
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you doing? >> Well, I mean, I think we early on I remember saying to the group like we
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can't be afraid to fail. That that's that was something that I learned a lot
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of the Diamondbacks. You have to be willing to innovate and sometimes the innovation's not going to work. And so
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to give you an example, in in the exhibit I was just talking about, we created a a a kind of pretty cool
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interactive that was like creating a >> a stamp. It's not going to sound very
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cool, but when you walk in, it's a very obvious you create a stamp in the baseball exhibit um the Yaku baseball
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exhibit, and it just hasn't worked exactly the way we wanted. So, we're thinking about, okay, what can we do to
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try to make it a little bit more engaging? So, the first thing is you can't be afraid to fail. And I think if
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you if you set people down a course of you know what, think big. Um start small, scale fast. That's actually what
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our IT guy at the Diamondbacks used to say. Think big, start small, scale fast. >> Um we we
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>> I don't think we ever want to be here um on the forefront of technology. We're
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just not we're not we don't have the money to screw up that big. We don't
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want to be so far out front that we're doing 3D televisions and now all of a
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sudden we got to replace the whole the whole place because we went wrong. Um so we we we look at what works at other
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places. We think about how it might work here. We encourage creativity and we just have real honest conversations
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about what might work and what might not. But I it's hard because there isn't
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a perfect answer to your question like what works. >> One last followup. give us one
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institution that you consider a peer institution that you learn from. Maybe one that might surprise us.
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>> Um, well, there's a bunch. I mean, there's there's five or six of us who
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have my job at different halls of fame that we we have quarterly calls and we just kind of chat with each other, but I
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just was um I mentioned my uh my who's your fandom. I was down at the Peach Bowl um when Indiana was was in the the
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semi-final and I went to the College Football Hall of Fame >> in Atlanta and they are doing incredible
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stuff with AI right now. Just absolutely >> mindblowing cool technology that throws
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I was with my son and my my cousin. So I guess a 15year-old, a almost 50-year-old
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and an almost 60-year-old. Um and everybody everybody was around us was was just having an absolute blast. Now,
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it's very different than we're much more about preserving artifacts. I think
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we're probably more I don't know if this is fair to say, but more of a museum,
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whereas they're more of an entertainment >> venue, but we we came back and
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immediately were like, let's have some conversations about some of the stuff
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they're doing. And >> as we build out this new experiential gallery, can we can we take some of the
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ideas from that? But I don't think there's a place I've gone yet since I've
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been here where I haven't stolen an idea or two and come back and said, "Hey,
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what do we think about?" And everybody does that. It's not just me. the whole
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whole place always has our eyes open to what's out there. >> Mhm. Shame.
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>> Yeah. I guess feeding off that Pure Institution idea, I think my maybe the
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second most uh my my second favorite museum to visit other than the Baseball Hall of Fame in Coopertown is the Tokyo
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Baseball, the baseball Japanese baseball hall of fame in Tokyo. Absolutely incredible institution as well. And I
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maybe you already talked about this. You talked about a little bit baseball as the trans trans-Pacific game, but how
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much that you've kind of are talking to like kind of the Yeah, I mean places
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like the na like exchange programs with places like the B National Ball of Fame in Tokyo. I mean that's probably the
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most the one I know, but in Korea, I mean obviously with the World Baseball Classic coming up, we're sort of seeing
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that baseball is becoming even more of an international sport than it used to be and obviously it's throughout our
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major leagues now. So, how much of like at the Hall of Fame level are are you connecting with some of these other kind
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of pure institutions or whatever kind of constitutes Baseball Hall of Fame in different countries?
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>> Well, it's funny. The the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame um we are very
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close with them. My me and my counterparts several of us with their counterparts. We went out there a couple
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times over the last few years. Um last year when well because we had this huge opportunity with Ichiro being the first
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Japanese player inducted last year and this brand new exhibit we created. We actually launched the whole announcement
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of this this initiative with the US ambassador in his residence in Tokyo. And then we we had the my counterpart
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from the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame standing there with me. He was holding I
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think a Mickey Manel jersey and I had a a Satara Oat or something kind of I mean
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there's all sorts of cool ways to now they are they are different in some ways
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they are right in the Tokyo Dome as you know so it's it's much easier to get
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through get to and that's a very one of our unique challenges is that you can't
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just accidentally happen upon the Hall of Fame but that's one of the great things about us as well but what's funny
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is how much they have they they actually are older than people realize in Japan they they opened that that hall of fame
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about 20 30 years after we did. So they've been around for 50 or 60 years and
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>> you can you can see all about Babe Ruth over there and everything like that. I
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learned a lot about American baseball at the Japanese Baseball >> Hall of Fame.
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>> Absolutely. And and in fact I was in at the World Baseball Classic before I had
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this job when I was in uh the Dodgers and Diamondbacks. The first three WBC's
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I was involved in um as a venue press chief. So I I ran the venue at Dodger Stadium um where I think the best event
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I ever went to was Japan vers Korea in 2009 Championship which was just an unbelievable international experience.
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And then in 2017 I was I ran venue uh media operations in Soul Korea and I met a bunch of people there who have not
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that long ago reached out about what if we wanted to create something similar in
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Korea. So we do all talk to each other. Um it's clear baseball is just something
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different here than it is in most countries around the world. But Japan um the Dominican Republic actually just had
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their Hall of Fame ceremony about 10 days ago for the Latin Baseball Hall of Fame. So we're in touch with all these
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places. We try to um share ideas with one another because we're not competing.
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It's not like we're the Braves and the Reds and we don't want to tell you what
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we're doing. Um we're we're all friends and we all try to borrow and steal ideas
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from one another. So, I'm going to transition back to Eric, but on the way, I'll ask one question that I know that
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we're interested in at some point, so might as well jump into it sooner rather
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than later. What's the role for analytics in the in the in the future of the Hall of Fame? And in particular,
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could you imagine ever making space for someone like Bill James who created Saber Metrics? And there's no sport out
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there that's been, I think, more affected by analytics than baseball. and Bill, I think anybody would give him
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credit as as the prime innovator. So, what is there an avenue? We we we raised this question having just had a
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conversation in the last week or two about whether Dean Oliver could ever be in the Basketball Hall of Fame. And so,
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baseball has an argument more than any other sport for analytics. Curious, is there such an avenue in the future for
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Bill or people like Bill? So I mean the the the answer is at the moment our executive we have number of
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different ways that you can get in the hall of fame but the only way that executives umpires and managers can be
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elected is through our era committee process which um happens every three years. We look at that category. This
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coming December is one of those years. Um up to this point uh the historic overview committee that puts together
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the ballot has mostly looked at executives as owners or general managers, what they describe as team
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builders. Um, so somebody like Walter Omali, who who not only won a number of World Series championships in Los
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Angeles, but responsible for moving baseball west, he also won one in Brooklyn, I should say, but um or a
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general manager, John Sherholes or Pat Gillick, somebody who was building that team. Um, up to this point, the only
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executive that doesn't neatly fit into that category is Marvin Miller, uh, who
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was elected several years ago as the head of the players association. Um, and that was that was a little bit outside
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the box. So, I would say I would never say never. I mean, Bill does not neatly fall into one of those categories. But I
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think part of what what I think makes this place so special um is that it's not just a plaque gallery. There are so
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many people who come here and they think that they're going to walk into just all
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it is is what you see on TV, the plaque gallery. And the reality is is it's a
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three-story museum. And so Bill James has a file in our library and all of his books are are there to be studied by
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generations who a 100 years from now you're going to be able to walk in the baseball hall of fame and say can you
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pull me out everything you have on Bill James and it is going to be frankly possibly more than everything that you
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have on >> Bill Maserowski who just could unfortunately use a name and we just
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lost. Um, yeah. And so I I mean I think that that's the the reality is is that
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we don't see ourselves as just a plaque gallery and a hall of fame. We are the
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National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. And so right now, is there a path that would make great sense for
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Bill? Not necessarily. But I wouldn't say that's out of the realm. And as you
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can probably know from people people's complaints or or liking of what we do.
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Um, we've changed the error committee process quite a bit over the years as we
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think it when when we think it needs to be adjusted. And so if if we ever go down that route, it's it would certainly
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open open up to a lot more executives if you if you started going down the road of non-team builders. If I mean there's
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you wind up with scouts and you could wind up with business side who who innovated the promotional item. There
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could be you could wind up really starting to go down a lot of paths and to this point we our board hasn't really
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been looking to do that but I'd never say never to any idea. >> Before I start throwing a bunch more
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questions, I know Shane wanted to jump in here for a second. Please Shane. Well, maybe one of these is going to be
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one of your questions because it kind of does touch on more the analytic side or
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at least I think one of the consequences of analytics in baseball and is is the kind of I I want to kind of ask what
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your take is sort of on obviously we're seeing over the last like 20 years a
00:22:37
real change in the usage of starting pitcher specifically and that change in the usage of start pitcher is going to
00:22:45
have downstream consequences I think to Hall of Fame cases in the future. you know, kind of a lot of the I guess
00:22:52
traditional barometers like winds and stuff like that are going to I mean, for lack of a better term, become kind of
00:22:57
less less relevant or more obsolete as kind of measures of pitching quality. So, you know, obviously this is a ways
00:23:03
away because we you know, at least the current generation of pitchers still has wins, but like have you guys thought
00:23:08
about like what what you were seeing in baseball with starting pitcher usage over the last few years and like what
00:23:14
what what does like a p starting a hall of fame pitcher look like like 10 years from now basically? and and and and how
00:23:22
how yeah how how we how we start still choose pitchers. >> So I mean it's it's a great question.
00:23:27
It's certainly one that I think a lot of people have been writing about recently
00:23:29
because Felix Hernandez just recently made a huge jump on the ballot. I think the largest jump we've ever seen from
00:23:34
one year to the next and he doesn't necessarily have the the counting totals
00:23:38
that some of the others do. But realistically the guys who were elected in the 60s didn't have the same numbers
00:23:43
as the guys that were elected in the 30s and 40s. Sai Young and I mean nobody's
00:23:47
going to win 500 games again. And so, um, the answer is it always shifts over time. Um, obviously closers didn't start
00:23:56
getting elected until a certain point in time and then suddenly now there's you
00:23:59
see seven or eight guys who predominate predominantly relievers in the hall. Um,
00:24:05
I don't know what I don't know what it's going to look like and frankly it's not
00:24:08
up for us. And a good this is going to sound like a total copout but that's one
00:24:11
of the things that I think was really smart when the Hall of Fame both was started and has continued is that we
00:24:16
don't get a say. We really don't have anything to do with who gets in. We
00:24:20
honor those who get elected by either the baseball writers, which is 420 or so writers. 75% of them vote for someone.
00:24:28
And so it's really up to them to sort that out to try to figure out, okay, what is the right amount of wins or is
00:24:33
it go to whip or does it go to strike out? >> Yeah. And I guess I'm I I realize you're
00:24:38
not really kind of running that selection process. I'm just kind of predicting what that selection process
00:24:43
will look like. like the the plaques 15 years from now, will it be like strikeouts per nine or something like
00:24:49
that? Like how will we kind of like how will we honor those like this next generation of pitchers going to be like
00:24:55
150 wins or something? >> What Shane's worried about is that I'm going to be coming to Coopertown when
00:25:00
I'm 70 years old and I'm going to be there by myself because no one's going
00:25:03
to meet the traditional criterion and >> I'll be there with you. I'll be there
00:25:07
with No, that's not what I'm worried about at all. No, I mean I I do think on
00:25:10
the plaques we just saw for the first time with Todd Helton we used OPS on a plaque. Um I'm sure at one point it was
00:25:17
strange to use I don't know pick a pick a stat rate stolen base percentage what
00:25:22
at some point it probably they didn't think about how often you got >> even on base percentage we weren't
00:25:26
thinking about like 40 years ago. >> All those things have evolved and um that's part of what this place has been
00:25:31
really good at for now almost 90 years is evolving with it. Maybe we're a little slower. Like I said we don't want
00:25:36
to necessarily be on the forefront. You're probably not going to see me putting, it's not my decision, but
00:25:41
you're not going to see us put war on a plaque tomorrow morning, but maybe 10
00:25:45
years from now they do. And and maybe 20 years from now it's on all the plaques
00:25:49
because that's how things or maybe it's not. I mean, the reality is is um the
00:25:54
way you look at history, I mean, it's Felix was an interesting one. Someone said to me when I was in spring training
00:25:59
last week that well, if Felix is a Hall of Fame that Hall of Famer, then so and so also should be. And the reality is is
00:26:06
you're not everybody has their own case. It's I realize that people look and they
00:26:09
say, "Well, if this then that." But the reality is everybody's different.
00:26:12
Everybody pitched in a different era. People played in different ballparks and they all the things that um you just I
00:26:19
don't think you can't really play that game because it just you'd wind up with
00:26:23
way more Hall of Famers. And I know that one thing we do believe in here is that
00:26:27
it should be exclusive. We do not want to be the sort of Hall of Fame where 10 to 15 people are getting in every year.
00:26:32
Um, we don't look at it and say, "Who are the four best that aren't in? Let's
00:26:36
elect them." We look at it and say, "Here are the candidates, and if 75% of
00:26:40
you agree that they're a Hall of Famer, they're a Hall of Famer." And
00:26:43
unfortunately, sometimes we've had 73% or 68 and you just don't get there. That
00:26:48
doesn't mean you weren't an unbelievable player in the history of the game.
00:26:52
Doesn't mean you're not represented in other places of the building, too. It
00:26:55
just means at the moment you don't have a plaque in the gallery, and maybe the
00:26:58
next time we look at it, you might. So, let me just ask a few questions about things. I want to get back to analytics
00:27:03
in a second, but I want to ask about a few of the initiatives going on this year at the Hall of Fame. So, could you
00:27:08
tell us what the America 250 initiatives are and how the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, by the way, I'm going to
00:27:14
correct myself. I've always called it the National Baseball Hall of Fame, but
00:27:17
you've pointed out an important thing that's not actually its name. It's the
00:27:20
National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. And the museum part is an important part of the Hall of Fame.
00:27:26
>> Yeah, it's been on the front of the building since the very beginning. It
00:27:29
was actually when I interviewed for this job, I remember somebody saying to me, don't forget there's also the other half
00:27:34
of it. It is in fact an museum and you better understand all that or half the building there is not going to be very
00:27:39
pleased with you because it's about it's almost half the people who are museum
00:27:43
studies majors or have master's degrees in various areas of of collecting or
00:27:48
preserving or or archives or >> curators, librarians. Um there's a large
00:27:54
number of people whose job it is has nothing to do with the actual hall of fame itself. though. Um,
00:27:58
>> yeah. So, can you tell us about the America 250 and and what's what's the
00:28:02
National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum? What's their part in this America 250?
00:28:06
>> Well, I I think it's such a it's going to be such a national celebration that
00:28:09
we hear about all year long that it was pretty easy for us to look and say, okay, when you talk about a sport that
00:28:14
grew up with the country, I mean, that is it. People were basically playing baseball when they were creating this
00:28:19
place, um, meaning this nation. Um, and so we we looked at a number of different
00:28:25
ways we wanted to celebrate it. One of them um is in fact a trail through the museum, the America 250 trail that's
00:28:31
going to basically take 13 artifacts for the 13 colonies and tie them back to the
00:28:36
ideals in the Declaration of Independence. So, unity or liberty or perseverance. And so it'll it'll kind of
00:28:44
give somebody an opportunity to walk through the museum and see things that that relate back all the way to 1776.
00:28:51
We also um fast forward about 80 years or so and in 1857 um the the oldest known written rules of
00:28:59
baseball were created when the New York Knicker back New York Knicker boxers got
00:29:03
together in 1857. That doc those documents still exist and are being loaned to us um for the next 5
00:29:10
years. And so we are creating a brand new exhibit um that's both interactive
00:29:14
but also in a way when you go and see the constitution at at one of the Smithsonians in like this incredible
00:29:19
glad you're looking at a document that's 180 years old. Um that's a new part of
00:29:25
what we're creating. Um we are very fortunate. Uh Rick Monday about 50 years
00:29:30
ago in April. Rick Monday uh was a center fielder for the Cubs and two two fans ran on the field, tried to burn the
00:29:37
American flag and Rick ran in front of them, stole the flag from them and kind of kept running and saved it from being
00:29:43
burned on the field. That flag has never left his family's possession and he's
00:29:47
loaning that to us this summer. And so for the first time ever, fans will be able to come to the Hall of Fame and see
00:29:52
this flag on display and understand kind of the patriotism behind Rick's Rick's
00:29:57
um actions that day. And then ultimately the kind of the all of that kicks off the same of Memorial Day weekend. And
00:30:05
for those that have ever been, I'm sure you've probably been to one of our
00:30:08
Memorial Day weekend games. Um we host we for years we've hosted a classic game
00:30:12
here that's kind of the legends game. Recently retired players and Hall of Famers all on the field together. Um
00:30:18
this year we're making it all about um our military. It's the the Hall of Fame
00:30:22
military classic, a tribute to service and sacrifice. And so we've got players
00:30:26
who either in some cases serve themselves. We have two two major league players who were actually active duty
00:30:32
military before they got to the big leagues. We have um two dozen players who care deeply about the military.
00:30:39
Either they had a parent who served or a spouse who served or they supported military charities when they played. Um
00:30:45
and then a number of Hall of Famers who fall in that category as well. And they're all gonna be playing at Double
00:30:50
Day Field and um doing a really really cool event that um you're just not going
00:30:54
to want to miss. We've got Wounded Warriors playing with them on the field. Um we've just got an incredible
00:31:00
event put together for Memorial Day weekend that I really do think if people come um if there's an ounce of
00:31:06
patriotism in your body um you will be blown away by the cool stuff going on. Did you ever think, by the way, before I
00:31:13
get into the class of 2026, I want to talk about briefly because we've talked
00:31:16
about it on the show. As a matter of fact, what is it? The whole um you know, there's that Hall of Fame ballot
00:31:21
tracker, which I know you must be aware of that you know, the the publicity of the ballots. Sure.
00:31:25
>> Um did you ever consider this year of all years to change induction weekend to
00:31:30
July 4th, or was that never actually discussed? Like what would be more American for the Bradlo family to be in
00:31:37
Coopertown on July 4th? >> That's funny. Uh, you know, we didn't think about that. Um, interestingly, we
00:31:43
do two years from now. Um, we did move the the uh the induction weekend to August so that it wouldn't be up against
00:31:49
the Olympics, but we had not thought about moving it up. And I think um I don't know why we didn't. Um, to be
00:31:55
honest with you, maybe that would have been a good idea, but I there's also going to be a lot of other stuff going
00:31:59
on July 4th weekend, so we probably shouldn't compete against all that stuff. We kind of own the end of July in
00:32:04
the world of baseball, and I like the way that works. So, let's talk about the
00:32:08
2026 class because it's an interesting class for a lot of reasons. First of all, we have a 3000 hit player, Carlos
00:32:15
Belron. That's not that common. People don't, you know, 30,000 doesn't happen
00:32:20
all the time. We have Andrew Jones, who I forget if it's 10 time Golden Glove
00:32:24
winner, but I think there's some stat like there's only three players in
00:32:27
baseball history with 400 home runs or center fielder with 400 home runs and 10 golden gloves. And it's like him, Willie
00:32:33
Mays, and Ken Griffy. Yeah. >> Then we have the alltime leader of second baseman in home runs and Jeff
00:32:38
Kent. How are you thinking about the 2026 class and kind of what's going to go on in induction weekend?
00:32:46
>> Well, there's I mean there's a lot of different angles. You just cited a few
00:32:48
of them. And um what what's kind of unique is that that Jeff has Jeff played
00:32:52
with both Andrew and Carlos. Um so there's there's a lot of there's not
00:32:56
only teammates there. Um Carlos and Andrew are actually very good friends and and they came out for their
00:33:01
orientations together. and his two center fielders. It had been a while really since two center fielders. I
00:33:06
think only in when it came to Negro Leaguers did we have two center fielders inducted in the same class. So it's um
00:33:12
we also have Carlos played for a number of different teams. Uh he's going to go
00:33:16
in wearing a Mets hat, but ultimately um whether it's the Royals, the Astros, the
00:33:20
Cardinals, number of in organizations that um that will support him. So, I think we're going to have on top of
00:33:26
that, there is just massive pride in Puerto Rico um from Carlos and I think we're going to see a lot of both people
00:33:32
from Puerto Rico coming up. Um I'll be going down there um it 10 days I guess.
00:33:38
I'm going down there for the WBC and helping tell all the Puerto Ricans that
00:33:41
you should come to Coopertown, but also there's a huge Puerto Rican population
00:33:45
um down in the city that's going to come up. And then Jeff is obviously representing the San Francisco Giants
00:33:51
and uh Andrew is representing the Braves. Braves have always traveled really well. You see it they've had a
00:33:56
lot of Hall of Famers from that that 1990s dynasty. So it's it's a great
00:34:01
class. They all I mean what's amazing is when they came here within the last
00:34:05
month we've had all of them here for an orientation and you just watch the the
00:34:09
the reverence that they hold this place. And even as Jeff Kent wasn't a baseball
00:34:15
historian, he'd be the first to admit growing up he just said I'm I'm like he
00:34:19
was in tears half the day. like every time we turned around he was crying and he just couldn't believe what what he
00:34:25
was doing and where he was. So it's >> it's literally the meaning of the term
00:34:28
before I turn it back over to Kade. It's literally the meaning of the term forever.
00:34:33
>> Like you're forever in the Baseball Hall of Fame. And you know they can't take it
00:34:38
away from you. And I don't know if it's 1% or less than 1% of all players that
00:34:42
make it. I think there's what 300 maybe players roughly that >> just just under that. And you're right,
00:34:49
it's about the top 1%. And just before Kay jumps in, I'll say this. Um, one of
00:34:53
the other really cool things is that it's when you say forever, I actually I
00:34:57
said to Jeff Kent's wife, like I re she was getting emotional watching the intro
00:35:01
film that we have, which is the best baseball movie on the planet. I mean, I just
00:35:04
>> I was just going to say, by the way, by the way, if you we should >> that film, like even though it's there's
00:35:11
a three-story museum, when I arrived there on, you know, the Sunday of uh induction ceremony, we head straight to
00:35:17
that film. >> It's unbelievable. For those people that haven't seen it, I don't know. I'm being
00:35:21
serious for a second. I think everyone growing up in every school should watch that film. It's the most wonderful I'm
00:35:29
I'm literally in tears watching that. It's the greatest film that represents
00:35:34
baseball. It's It's beautiful. >> Well, thank you. Anyway, Dana Dana Kent
00:35:38
watched it and she was she was in tears as she walked out and I said she said, "It's just hard for me to believe that
00:35:43
Jeff is gonna be here forever." And I said, "The reality is it's not just
00:35:47
Jeff. Jeff's it's your guys kids. It's your grandkids. It's their grandkids
00:35:51
that 150 years from now they're going to be able to come in and see great great
00:35:55
grandpa Jeff's plaque on the wall. And like she just it's it's hard to fathom
00:36:00
how cool that is because it happens all the time where George Sistler's great
00:36:03
grandkid showed up here last summer and I put the his great-grandfather's glove
00:36:07
in his hand. He'd never met the guy. He only knew that he was related to this
00:36:10
Hall of Famer. And then you just watch like magic happen. Josh, I'm curious.
00:36:15
What happens at these orientations? Inductees have an orientation that's entertaining in some way. What what what
00:36:20
happens? Why do you do this? What happens at these orientations? >> Well, it's like college. We have to show
00:36:24
them where the fraternities and sororities are and all that. Um >> they get the lunch card, get the lunch
00:36:29
cards. >> Exactly. How do you swipe for a meal? Um I mean, the reality is is uh for many of
00:36:34
them, they haven't been in in all three cases this year, they had been at various points for for one reason or
00:36:42
another. Um, but quite often they've either never been to Coopertown or they've only been here because they
00:36:47
supported a teammate who was getting in and they they've only seen it during its
00:36:51
chaotic times. So, what we try we give them a tour. One of the most important things we do is we give them a tour of
00:36:56
the museum. We give them a tour of the archives. We we if they ever donated an artifact, in most cases, if you're a
00:37:02
Hall of Famer at that point, you probably donated something. We you had some moment that we asked for your bat
00:37:07
or your glove or your hat. And so, we'll break that back out again and show it to
00:37:11
them. And if it's not on display, we'll show them in the archives. And it gives
00:37:14
them an idea of what it is that they're joining. And then we spend quite a bit
00:37:18
of time walking them through what that weekend looks like because it is controlled chaos. I mean, it is it is 96
00:37:27
hours of events and parties and you've got everybody that's ever known you and
00:37:32
loved you there and they all want a piece of you and it's like here we can help you figure out how does this work?
00:37:37
How can these people be at this party while these people are at this party? And where does where do they stay? And
00:37:42
how do you rent homes? I mean, Coopertown is a village of 1,600 people. And somehow every summer it swells by 10
00:37:50
time 10, 20, 30 times that. Um, and so it's helping them figure out what's
00:37:56
driving them over to where the actual induction happens and letting them imagine what the stage looks like when
00:38:01
we put it up there. And um so there's a lot of things and just getting to know
00:38:05
our staff because the reality is there's probably five of us or so maybe a little
00:38:09
more that spend a lot of time with them helping them get through this and it's
00:38:13
just to get to know you have a couple meals and make sure they feel at ease help them work on their speech. Our vice
00:38:19
President John Chesikovski is incredible at guiding people through how do you not
00:38:24
just stand up there and say thank you to this person? Thank you. Thank you. Thank
00:38:27
you. Thank you. Read every name. It's how do you tell some stories about your
00:38:30
career that can also so we it's all that sort of stuff that goes on in orientation and it seems crazy that a
00:38:36
Hall of Famer would need that but um many of them will remind us like >> I don't know how to give a speech. I I
00:38:42
was a ball player. This is not what I'm good at. And we say don't worry we'll
00:38:45
help you through every >> Maybe two quick questions before I turn it back over to Katie who's going to
00:38:50
wrap up. Um, is there any Hall of Famer you've met and even your star struck?
00:38:56
I'm sure it happens all the time, but I'll give you an example. Since my
00:38:59
mother grew up in uh, she was a Brooklyn Dodger fan growing up, even today, every
00:39:04
time I see Sandy Kofax, I'm like, I can't believe I'm seeing Sandy Kofax,
00:39:08
whatever they called the the arm of God or whatever his nickname, I just like, I
00:39:12
cannot believe it. And, you know, years ago, I saw Willie Mays at the ceremony at Hank Aaron. I cannot believe I'm
00:39:18
seeing two of the in my view of the greatest players that Ted Williams, I just can't believe it. So, is there
00:39:24
anybody that just blows you away and you're like, I can't believe I'm seeing
00:39:28
this person. >> Well, it's it's hard. I mean, the reality is that, not to sound cheesy,
00:39:34
but they all absolutely still have that impact on many of us. Like, it is crazy that they're that we spend our time with
00:39:39
these people, but Sandy is the one for me that I also grew up with or grew up loving as a Dodger fan in Los Angeles.
00:39:46
And as a Jewish American who just has always heard stories about him, I was kind of like I mean I I had met him a
00:39:53
couple times at the Dodgers. Um but the fact that I now consider him a friend and like to think he thinks the same and
00:39:59
that every once in a while when I pick up the phone and give him a call or go grab grab breakfast when I'm in Florida,
00:40:04
there's definitely the reality of like this is kind of nuts that this is this
00:40:07
is where life is taking me. But um but I think we're we're ve what's cool about
00:40:12
the Hall of Fame is that it humbles every one of them. Like did when they when even if they had a reputation maybe
00:40:18
when they were playing of being >> it humbles Reggie Jackson really >> humbles everybody. It's crazy.
00:40:23
>> Even Reggie Jackson man we could bottle that. >> Okay. Hold on. No, no. I want I want to
00:40:28
push on this because I know people whenever people get get some kind of award and they say I'm humbled by this.
00:40:34
How is it that you're humbled? So can you just elaborate a little bit by what
00:40:38
you mean like why what do you mean by humble there and why what exactly is going on? I think it's funny when you
00:40:44
win some other award and you hear that I agree with you sometimes you're like
00:40:47
what how does that humble you but the reality is in this in this instance you are standing on a stage in front of and
00:40:54
alongside these many cases legends you grew up watching and there is a humbling feeling to that that they just they
00:41:04
can't actually believe like wow I I am standing here in front of Ken Griffy Jr.
00:41:09
and I grew up emulating him or Aussie Smith or whoever it is. Um, and I do think it's real. I don't think it's it's
00:41:17
BS. I think they they genuinely like there's something about and the Sunday night dinner that we do, which is
00:41:23
basically I mean it's just this insane um the wives and husbands split up, the
00:41:29
Hall of Famers go into one dining room and the only people in there are are them, myself, and the commissioner of
00:41:34
baseball. and they are it's like a it's they're back in their clubhouse again.
00:41:38
They get to they get to hang out and be and so you see someone like Ichiro who could one of the greatest players of all
00:41:45
time is like a kid again sitting there at a table with all the 3,000 hit guys and there's the 500 home run table and
00:41:52
there's the pitchers table and so it just um >> oh gosh they they organize themselves by
00:41:59
similar types of guys that have to be at very few that have to be at both those tables. Eddie Murray has to be at a
00:42:05
couple tables. But yeah, >> exactly. Either way, and that's exactly right. There's only a couple of guys
00:42:10
ever with 3,000 hits, 500 homers. And Eddie, actually, is today his birthday? I think it's I think today is Eddie's
00:42:15
birthday. Um >> I'll tell you, it is in fact Eddie's birthday. Happy birthday, Eddie. Um it's
00:42:20
odd that that's in my calendar. Like I you grow up watching Eddie Murray as an
00:42:23
Orio and a Dodger, and it's like, why is his birthday on my calendar? But I guess
00:42:26
that's >> Let me ask one last question before turning over to Kate. Is there do you
00:42:30
have statisticians at the Baseball Hall of Fame? And I mean like for example you
00:42:35
talk you mentioned that you emerged from the business side of things like statistitians do a lot like for example
00:42:42
I do I work I'm a quantitative marketing person like do you have a statistician
00:42:47
that helps you with customer lifetime value about who to target with email campaigns like do you have I mean forget
00:42:52
whether that person's on the baseball side or the business side are is there a
00:42:56
role for a statistician within the hall of fame and what do they do for you guys? Yeah. So, we actually two years
00:43:01
ago hired our first business analytics person. She does a great job. She's actually sitting about 50 feet from me
00:43:06
outside the door there. Um, and she does exactly that. She focuses much more on customer satisfaction, surveys, uh,
00:43:15
retail numbers, email campaign, all the sorts of things that that businesses focus on. Um, prior to that, it was kind
00:43:21
of everybody had little pieces of it, and we felt like we really needed to add somebody. And frankly, at some point,
00:43:26
it's going to be more than one somebody. We're going to have a whole department
00:43:28
of people doing it. Um, but she does a great job of helping us make smarter decisions by looking at some of the some
00:43:34
of the data. Um, on the on the baseball side or the Hall of Fame side, I mean, we have curators who are who are
00:43:41
baseball so several of them. Um, really truly deeply knowledgeable when it comes
00:43:46
to statistics. Um, some of them better at different eras of the game, some of them different. I mean, there's all
00:43:53
sorts of things that they're good at. Um, and then we actually have several people who are uh came up through more
00:44:00
like the baseball PR world, myself included, who have been following baseball stats, are massive baseball
00:44:06
fans. We might not fall into the category of Bill James or or um Theo Epstein, but we we're we're kind of
00:44:12
knowledgeable about what we do and so we try to incorporate that when into exhibits or business analytics, things
00:44:19
of that nature. >> Josh, it would be fun for us to have guys. It would be fun for us to have one
00:44:23
of those curators sometime. One of these baseball savants. Um, whatever the niche
00:44:27
might be, let's grab somebody and talk about that niche. It would be >> I'll tell you this great fun.
00:44:31
>> If you however much you think you know about baseball, Tom Sheber's baseball
00:44:35
knowledge will take it such far beyond. Every time I think, oh man, I'm a big
00:44:39
baseball fan. >> I'm ready for that because I claim to have amazing. >> There's several of them, but Tom is the
00:44:44
one that just kind of blows my mind sometimes when he can recall things. So Marissa D Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom
00:44:51
Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom's last name again. Josh
00:44:53
>> Tom Sheber. >> She All right. >> Several. I don't want to say the others
00:44:56
aren't just as good. He's just our our senior curator. >> Well, let me ask you one on the way out
00:45:01
question. Again, top of mind. Don't overthink it. There's not a right answer
00:45:05
to this question. Your favorite artifact in the museum >> for whatever reason.
00:45:10
>> So I'll give my standard easy answer that there are so many it is hard to
00:45:14
pick. But the best way that I can the best one that I've tried to because it's
00:45:18
it is top of mind is that when I when I I grew up in Los Angeles as a Dodger fan. Um they won the World Series when I
00:45:24
was 12, which is like exactly what what makes every kid love baseball for the rest of their life. Um and the final out
00:45:31
baseball from the 1988 World Series was given by the catcher Rick Dempsey to the
00:45:35
general manager Fred Claire who donated it to the Hall of Fame. And when I got this job, I I had gotten to know Fred
00:45:41
over the years um in a number of different he was very good to me as a intern, gave me great advice um and I
00:45:47
stayed in touch with him over the years. And when I got this job, he was quoted in an article that said um I expect Josh
00:45:52
to look after this artifact for the rest of time. So every time I walk past the 88 last outball, I kind of have to make
00:45:59
sure, okay, Fred, it's still there and you're good. Don't worry. Um but the
00:46:03
reality, I mean, it just every day you can walk in a museum. I could work here for another 20 years and I still won't
00:46:10
get to see all of it, understand all of it, take it. I just there's so much impressive stuff that trying to pick one
00:46:16
thing is very very hard. >> Mine Cade, by the way, if you since you never asked me and since I'm a sort of a
00:46:21
business guy, too, is the Honest Wagner T206 card. There's a place we walk down
00:46:25
the hall of fame and you can press a light and press a button that lights up. There's a bunch of different cards. Um,
00:46:31
that one every time I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not surprised the Baseball Hall of Fame
00:46:34
has one." But what there's 10 known to mankind or one just got found Josh which
00:46:38
I'm sure you saw about one just got >> very few that are at the the highest
00:46:42
level but those are a holy grail section of baseball. >> There's one that just got found that was
00:46:46
in a family for over a hundred years that just sold for 5 million plus dollars. So there's one more but that
00:46:51
that's my favorite one. >> That's a good find. >> I've never thought about it for myself.
00:46:55
I like to think about what baseball moment I would most like to see an artifact from. I have to give some
00:47:00
thought. That'll be my homework assignment. Shane, I'll be curious your answer down the road as well. Why don't
00:47:04
we let Josh go? This has been spectacular. We kept you longer than we asked. Josh, thank you for graciously
00:47:10
giving us that time. Um, keep up the great work, Eric. We'll see you this summer, I'm sure.
00:47:16
>> Thank you. I hope I get to see all of you guys and uh and truly it's it's an
00:47:20
honor to be on the show and and keep doing all the great work you're doing. >> And thank you. I want to say again,
00:47:24
thank you for everything you do. uh the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum
00:47:29
because of the role that baseball plays in everything that we do in analytics and what it means to so many families uh
00:47:36
is just crucial. So, thank you for the Thank you for that. You could be doing a you could be the CEO of a lot of things.
00:47:41
Um but uh >> one will be as fun as this. I promise you. >> Thank you for being Thank you again for
00:47:45
everything you do. >> It's our honor. Thank you, >> Josh Rawitch, the president of the
00:47:50
National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. That's the first half of Wharton Moneyball. Come back and join us after
00:47:56
the break. Welcome back. Welcome back to Wharton Moneyball. Welcome back to the second
00:48:03
half of this week's show. Second half, liberally speaking, we went overtime with the president of the Baseball Hall
00:48:09
of Fame and Museum. Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. That was, if you if it wasn't obvious, that was an Eric Bradlo
00:48:16
choice. And I thoroughly enjoyed watching Eric. A little googly eyed. A little bit googly eyed. Every now and
00:48:23
then we get googly about one of our guests. I I was reminded I have to be honest, I'm not the hugest M. Brown fan
00:48:29
in the world, but he did win the only national championship in my conscious life at the University of Texas. So when
00:48:36
we had M Brown on a few years ago, I I felt like I had to say some really nice things. I gushed a little bit. It's not
00:48:42
great when the host is gushing. I gushed a little bit and I I was reminded of that as I watched Eric because it means
00:48:48
so much to you. That was awesome. It turned it was a spectacular interview. I thought
00:48:52
>> I I did too. I think I like the way he framed it, which is, you know, his job
00:48:58
besides the National Baseball Hall of Fame part is to store the history of the game. And that's why when we talked
00:49:05
about Bill James or whether it's Theo Epstein or etc., you know, Bill James deserves to be in the National Baseball
00:49:12
Hall of Fame and Museum cuz he's an important part of the history of baseball. Whether he ever gets elected
00:49:18
or has a plaque, I agree. I like the way he answered that as a totally separate issue and um I also thought of the way
00:49:25
you know in some sense his job is to protect the game and protect the history of the game. So I like the way he said
00:49:31
is like we innovate but you know we innovate kind of slow like you know we shouldn't be that you know let's not
00:49:37
bankrupt the I don't even mean financially let's not ruin the baseball hall of fame while we're trying to
00:49:42
create some AI 3D something something you know let's remember that you know people come here because they want to
00:49:48
think about Babe Ruth and Tai Cobb and George Sistler and Ken Griffy and you know let's never forget that. So, I I
00:49:55
thought he was great and you know, um the fact that he came out of baseball teams until I read the notes and I
00:50:01
looked up about him, I didn't realize I didn't know what his background was, but
00:50:05
the fact that he actually worked in baseball on the business side makes sense. He's the CEO. He's not a
00:50:10
statistician running the I mean, he's the CEO of a 100 person organization that's entrusted with the history of
00:50:16
baseball. Of course, he should be a business person and a fundraiser. >> Shane, I'm going to put you on the spot.
00:50:21
You have to have some moment from especially those early Red Sox championships that you would like to see
00:50:27
the artifact from. I'm guessing that would be a pink artifact for you. >> Yeah. Um
00:50:34
>> bloody sock. I mean >> the blood I mean the bloody sock is I I that one of soured a little bit on me
00:50:39
just because Kurt Schilling kind of in his po post baseball career hasn't has
00:50:43
been as as as loudable. Um >> it's got to be like a big Poppy home run. I think it's going to it would be
00:50:49
the home run ball for that one that was hit into the Red Sox bullpen. The one in
00:50:54
uh 2013, he hit a grand slam to come back against the Detroit Tigers. It's one of I think
00:51:00
>> Oh, wow. >> a couple grand slams in that particular postseason. I thought one of his games
00:51:05
against the Yankees in the series where they were down three to nothing and he had
00:51:09
>> no I mean >> that that's you know I mean right alongside maybe Johnny Damon's uh first
00:51:15
home run from 20 2004 game seven home run >> I'd like to Yeah, >> that would be kind of cool.
00:51:23
>> Yeah, that's maybe the gloves the gloves that A-Rod used to try and slap the ball
00:51:27
out of Bronson Aoyo's glove in game six. >> The the hamburger help. I don't even
00:51:32
remember that >> legal play. Totally legal. >> Oh yeah. No, I mean honestly it's it's a
00:51:37
>> it's a minor miracle the umpires got it right, but they did. >> Okay, my my answer for now I reserve the
00:51:43
right to change it is Azie Smith's glove. I want to see Aussie Smith's glove at
00:51:47
>> I think a glove over a bat or a ball because the glove is such a thing who
00:51:51
ever talked about this but I hate to say it but my favorite part of the weekend obviously is being with my family and
00:51:56
kids but before you understand when the ceremony starts this is the beauty of the baseball hall of fame. And let's say
00:52:01
there's usually 60 70 returning Hall of Famers. They have a twominute video of
00:52:06
each one. So you're sitting there for about 30 minutes to an hour where they
00:52:10
announce Aussie Smith and then they show a clip of Aussie Smith on this big screen that Aussie blocks out. And so my
00:52:16
kids and I say, you know, they always joke with me, dad, we can go now. Like I hate to say it, but look, not that I
00:52:21
don't want to hear Carlos Beltron speech or Jeff Kent's speech and Andrew Jones
00:52:25
speech, but the first hour of it when they're announcing all the Hall of Famers and they have the video up there
00:52:30
like that to me is that's the highlight of the Hall of Fame experience and weekend.
00:52:35
>> Hey man, I think the field the fielders the guy who do great things in the field
00:52:39
probably have better highlights than the hitters, right? >> Do they they announce like every living
00:52:44
hall of fame? every >> the ones that are there, the ones that are literally, oh, by the way, maybe you
00:52:49
don't know, they literally come out one at a time like now from the class of
00:52:52
1991, the Wizard of Oz, and then they put his thing up on the screen and you're all watching his highlight rail.
00:52:58
Then they go and now the Iron Man, you know, Cal Repen played, you know, >> we would increase participation at our
00:53:05
alumni reunions if we had little videos of everybody who agreed to come to their
00:53:10
reunions. Okay, fellas, let's talk a little bit of sports around um around the world. Before we do that, I want to
00:53:15
ask explicitly about the Olympics. The Olympics wrapped up this weekend. I'm
00:53:19
I'm I've been curious as I watched the Olympics off and on over the last two
00:53:22
weeks. I I was curious like what reactions y'all were having. Are there any sports that went up in your eyes,
00:53:27
down in your eyes, found yourself liking more than you expected, less than you expected? Just a few quick comments that
00:53:34
you learned, enjoyed, didn't enjoy. >> You want to go first? I just go for it.
00:53:38
>> Yeah, I just have a couple. So obviously I was really really rooting for the US
00:53:44
versus Canada. Not that I have a real, you know, I just know it's been I remember when 1980 the Miracle on Ice
00:53:50
happened. It's been obviously 46 years since the US team won. Um since I don't
00:53:55
watch as much hockey as Shane or lots of other people, I wasn't aware of like how
00:54:00
much I'll call it variance this threeonree format is like the gold medal is coming down to a threeonree. I mean
00:54:08
and Canada should have scored on the previous thing. And to me, >> it's absolutely ridiculous. They used
00:54:14
that. >> No, no, I agree. >> Weird format for the gold medal game. I
00:54:18
mean, the other game's fine, whatever. >> No, no. I'm just saying one missed shot,
00:54:22
one steal of the puck led to the US ending up with an uncontested shot on goal. And I just figured I just thought
00:54:29
that was a weird ending. But even then, I I I thought that was interesting. And look, despite I've been highly critical
00:54:35
of her throughout for her eight consecutive non-metals, I've never been rooting harder than I
00:54:41
was rooting for Michaela Shiffron on that last run in the slalom. She was clearly so far ahead. I'm like, please
00:54:48
don't hit a gate. Please don't hit a gate. Cuz like if you just ski down here
00:54:51
at Eric Bradlo speed now for the back half of this run, you're going to win the gold medal. And so to me, um, I've
00:54:59
always found in this case was slalom, but the the alpine skiing events and hockey, both women's and men's to me
00:55:07
were just incredible experiences. So those will be my memories from this Olympics. Those two events, both women
00:55:12
and men's downhill and the women's and men's ice hockey. >> Uh, I want to talk a little bit about
00:55:19
that three and three. I I want to follow up on yours before I get I get to mine because I I do kind of feel like it got
00:55:24
me thinking that because the threeon-ree format obviously is optimized towards just getting getting it over with as
00:55:31
quickly as possible. Like it's like uh I I guess I'm kind of it made me wonder
00:55:36
what actually the scoring rates are for three on three versus four on four versus five on five. Mhm.
00:55:43
>> And you know, for either during the Olympics or during regular season NHL,
00:55:48
we don't just do overtime after overtime, which is the real way to decide a hockey game because it takes
00:55:55
too long, the players get too tired, blah blah blah blah. No argument for the gold medal game again. Why they why they
00:56:01
couldn't just play that one until there was a real winner, whatever. Um, but it
00:56:06
makes makes me wonder like three on three seems a little bit too fast or or like too dissimilar to real hockey, too
00:56:13
high of a rate of scoring. If we just did overtime four on four, it would be closer to real hockey.
00:56:20
>> Mhm. but maybe would have a scoring rate high enough where we could get like like
00:56:24
I I guess I've been inspired to be like three on three is too extreme, but if we
00:56:28
just did four on four for overtime in actual regular season hockey, could we avoid the shootout? Like how how
00:56:36
what's the expected waiting time? And is it reasonable enough that if we just did
00:56:40
a faster pace or I would even say go three on three for overtime in the regular season because that's at least
00:56:46
slightly more similar to real hockey than the shootout is. So, you know, given that we can basically, I think,
00:56:52
arbitrarily up the scoring rate in hockey just by removing players, why don't we have that as an overtime
00:56:58
solution as opposed to shootout, >> I guess, is my question. >> No, for the sport.
00:57:03
>> You could also, Shane, if you wanted to, let's say you said, really, we really
00:57:06
don't want more than 15 minutes of overtime hockey. Let's start at five on
00:57:10
five for the first five minutes, then go down to four on four. No, no, no. I'm
00:57:13
just I'm actually being serious. You could just start reducing the number of
00:57:17
players. Look, you saw the same thing I did, which is obviously I mean you're
00:57:21
Canadian, you rooting for Canada. I assume I'm American, but it's not about
00:57:24
that. By the end of the game, in my view, the US was outplayed and therefore they had a better shot at winning three
00:57:32
on three. >> Yeah, it's a higher variance. >> So, you might as well No, no, but they I
00:57:37
I think they were playing for three on three at the end of the game. Obviously, they wanted to score. No, I'm just
00:57:43
saying the 40some shots the Canadian team put up to the 20some shots the US team put up and you could I mean I
00:57:51
understand we hit one off the post too, but I mean they had the better opportunities in the game. The US should
00:57:56
have been playing for threeon-ree overtime. That was their best chance to win the gold medal.
00:58:01
>> All right, give us give us some nonhockey Olympic cuts. >> Well, the thing the uh other thing I
00:58:06
mean I watched a ton of curling. Oh my goodness, it was so fun. Uh I love curling so much. which is such a great
00:58:12
sport. And there's a new kind of thing, at least new to me. I my apologies to
00:58:16
the real curling afficionados that are I'm sure the majority of our listeners,
00:58:20
but this mixed doubles curling is like a new So, previously in Olympic curling, you had the men's team and the women's
00:58:26
team and it's four people per team and they shoot two rocks each. this mix doubles. It's only two. It's a a couple,
00:58:34
so two people per team. And they don't shoot like as many rocks, but there's
00:58:39
actually rocks placed on the So, in in regular curling, all the rocks that like are thrown are the ones that enter the
00:58:45
house. This one, there's actually rocks placed in the house ahead of time. So,
00:58:49
you start out with rocks in the house and then they start throwing rocks. So, it's almost like, you know, it's it it
00:58:56
leads to like a lot more kind of interesting sort of scenarios basically. >> Shane, with only two people on the team,
00:59:01
is there just one sweeper? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. And so, they're alternating
00:59:06
sweeping and and throwing. Huh. I miss that. That sound that does sound interest.
00:59:10
>> Yeah. No, it's it's it's super interesting. And I think, you know,
00:59:13
again, I mean, Audi was kind of telling me about like, you know, there's already
00:59:16
like, you know, because there's also like a power play. There's all kinds of
00:59:19
strategic elements I think they've introduced into already a very strategic and interesting game of curling with
00:59:25
this mixed doubles format. So, I'm I'm eager to kind of check that out in other
00:59:28
sort of situations. Anybody who is following curling is probably like, "Oh,
00:59:32
this is old news." But for me, it was new and I love this new format to be honest.
00:59:36
>> Shane, if we had a tournament where half the teams were men's national teams and
00:59:40
half the teams were women's national teams, what would the betting market say
00:59:45
about the likely sex of the winning team? Oh, that's such a good good interesting.
00:59:51
>> Are you asking Kate if if men have any competitive real advantage in curling?
00:59:55
>> Well, I mean one thing we can do I I mean I don't know the answer to this,
00:59:58
but like you could within the mixed doubles tournament, you could certainly look at the shooting percent like kind
01:00:03
of like a success rate the men and women. I will say that uh >> Hold on Shane, if the evidence came back
01:00:09
that the men had worse shooting percentage, they would blame the female sweepers.
01:00:13
>> So it's not pure. It's not clean. I mean, they they'd find a way to complain
01:00:17
no matter what, I suppose. But yeah, no, I I I will say in the mix the mixed doubles gold medal was won by Sweden.
01:00:23
Um, and the and the and the woman compo part person in in that mixed mixed uh Swedish team was like the Terminator. I
01:00:32
don't think she missed a shot. She see she nailed absolutely everything. So, at
01:00:36
least the Swedish gold medal team was carried >> in my opinion. By the way,
01:00:41
>> the null has to be that there's no advantage, right? The null has to be
01:00:44
>> possible. I'm just making this up since I don't know curling very well. Is it
01:00:47
possible that men can sweep >> harder than women? They can adjust the the disc more so than women can.
01:00:58
>> It's Yes, that that is in fact the case. Uh, in fact, they were talking about
01:01:03
some six foot five, like the Italian men's team had this like six foot6 like
01:01:08
uber athlete on it and he was just like and they actually like there's literal
01:01:11
shots where they're like only he could have swept it where it needed to be basically. So, there is something to
01:01:17
that. God, I think it is Zamboni between rounds to come out and reglaze the ice.
01:01:24
That beast is not >> I don't know how deep you want to go with this, but actually I've learned
01:01:28
also through this Olympics that the the ice is different for curling versus hockey. Like hockey ice made via Zampon
01:01:35
is too smooth. It like I was going to say it was too you can't curl a rock with that. They actually designed the
01:01:41
ice and curling to kind of be pebbled, I think was the terminology they're using.
01:01:45
um and the attack the anyway. So yes, I mean obviously deep time but yeah it turns out a Zamboni would give you very
01:01:52
bad ice for curling specifically. >> Okay. I I don't I don't I my observations are we got I was with my
01:02:00
in-laws and we were working in the north indoors fireplaces and we had the TV on
01:02:05
all the time and you just kind of saw what was going on. There were endless amounts of bobsled runs. There was
01:02:09
endless curling. There was endless ski jumping and there all of these things I found a little bit
01:02:14
>> halfpipe people on snowboards >> halfpipe for a long time but here's Eric
01:02:17
I never enjoyed the halfpipe so much I was anytime I saw these people jumping this time this was what weird surprised
01:02:23
me I was transfixed at least for the moment watching these guys jump and then it peaked for me when they did when they
01:02:29
got to the aerials watching these aerials are I you don't see it anywhere else in the world anything remotely like
01:02:36
it is just utterly dumbfounding to me that those people can do those But the other thing that jumps out to me is you
01:02:42
need enough variation for it to be interesting. Like one of the reasons figure skating is kind of interesting
01:02:48
regardless of your taste for figure skating is that there's real drama during those two minutes or those four
01:02:53
minutes. Like some people fall, some people don't. You can observe that as a
01:02:57
as a non-skating afficionado. And so there's separation, there's variation
01:03:02
even among the elite. In bob sled, there's like 4100s of a difference. It's
01:03:06
like come on. But anyway, so there's some amount of variation that's needed
01:03:12
for optimal viewing. Okay, good fun. Let's do a real quick uh what caught your eye just to close it on a
01:03:17
traditional process. One thing, guys, and let's try to be as concise as possible since we're so over time, but
01:03:23
one thing caught your eye in the world of sports. >> I'll just be 10 seconds. Uh the run is
01:03:28
over. Scotty Sheffer only ended up 11th, but I will say the following. Um this is
01:03:34
now it's not a big thing. It's the fourth tournament in a row where he's
01:03:38
had a bad first round, >> which has prevented him. Like if he if you just look at the last three rounds,
01:03:44
he's won the last four tournaments. Problem is they play four rounds, not three.
01:03:48
>> So that's just interesting to me. But um the guy like Tiger never gives up. The
01:03:54
guy made the cut on the cut line. Yeah. >> And ended up So he was 70th and he ended
01:04:00
up 11th cuz he shot I think it was 65 and 64 on the weekend. He's never out of
01:04:05
it. Ever out of it. And um he's got it didn't even look like it's not the thing
01:04:10
that's amazing on him. It reminded me about Tiger. Maybe even better than Tiger in this one respect. Like he's not
01:04:16
going to rush it. He knows it's coming and he knows that if he just stays in
01:04:21
there, he could make four or five birdies in a row and he doesn't have to force it. So that's what caught my eye.
01:04:27
The streak is over. I think it was the longest streak ever of top 10 finishes and he, God forbid, he ended up 11th.
01:04:34
>> Eric, it's funny you mentioned that. I almost texted y'all on Sunday afternoon.
01:04:37
I I knew that he had barely made the I knew he had he had bid last in the whole tournament.
01:04:41
>> He had to make an eight-footer on the 18th to make the cut. >> Okay. But then on Sunday at one point
01:04:47
after he had finished, he was tied in the top 10. There were a bunch of folks and I was
01:04:51
>> One guy made a birdie. One guy made a birdie with two holes to go that knocked
01:04:55
him down to the 11th place. >> So that was the drama that I was feeling when I looked at the scoreboard. I
01:05:01
almost texted John like coming down to the last few holes. Will his streak maintain? I saw somebody jumped him. All
01:05:06
right, Shane, what do you got? >> Well, coming back from the Olympics, let's catch back up with the NHL and
01:05:11
hockey. Uh, one thing I'm kind of interested to look at over the next couple months, car we we it was lost in
01:05:17
all the Olympic excitement, but the Carolina Hurricanes have this new goalender, Brandon Busy, who's like
01:05:22
basically since joining the Hurricanes, and they got him off waivers. This is was a goalie signed off waivers. He's
01:05:29
23-1 as a goalender for the Hurricanes. 233 and one. And I'll just say that that is
01:05:37
a I mean, that's an NHL record. So he he won 18 of his first 22 games, which is
01:05:41
an NHL record. >> Okay, hold on. This is these are weird ways to speak. It's like saying
01:05:45
quarterbacks went won loss records. You know, it's even more extreme than saying
01:05:49
a quarterback. >> No, that's right. A goal, but but this is a goal, you know, I I I and again,
01:05:54
we're not necessarily attributing it all to him, but it is still unusual that a
01:05:59
goalender will have in his first, >> you know, 27 games played 23 victories.
01:06:06
For example, just historically, the career leader in win percentage, and this is conditioning on 300 wins at
01:06:13
least or whatever, is Patrick Wah at 56%. >> Yeah. >> The current active leader in win
01:06:19
percentage, other than this guy, Brandon Busy, is is Vaselvki, and he's at 61%.
01:06:26
>> Okay. What about peripherals though? Don't want no peripherals, save
01:06:29
percentages, and expected goals. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right.
01:06:32
And to a certain extent, he he's standing out but not standing out quite as much in those. But I think it, you
01:06:38
know, I I'm keeping an eye on this guy because there is inevitably, as you're
01:06:41
hinting, going to be some regression to the meet. He can't keep going at a 90%
01:06:45
win clip. But it's pretty unusual for anybody to come out out of nowhere essentially to do this in hockey. And so
01:06:55
let's let's keep an eye on him and what what happens with the Carolina Hurricanes uh over the next uh couple
01:07:01
months. anytime they come up, I'm reminded that they're whenever you talk
01:07:04
to folks the the the few people in the league that we pay that we have relationships with run analytically
01:07:11
oriented. They run kind of sharp and they all rever the Hurricanes organization and so for them they must
01:07:16
have seen something. It says something about a player when the Hurricanes choose him off off a waiver wire.
01:07:21
>> Um all right, I'm gonna go with baseball guys. I picked this up. I regret not
01:07:26
knowing who I got this from on Twitter, but now I'm just looking at fan graphs.
01:07:29
they sat at Fan Graphs and pointed out that pre-season win probabilities in Major League Baseball. So, this is me
01:07:35
bringing baseball to you guys. >> Mhm. >> Fan graphs preseason win probabilities.
01:07:40
There are 12 teams at 1% or lower and there's another seven teams at below 2%
01:07:50
above one but below two. >> This is for probabilities of winning the World Series.
01:07:54
>> Probability of winning the World Series. more than half the teams >> 19 out of 30 19 out of 30 have 2% or
01:08:01
less >> 19 out of 30 >> that's seems problematic to me by the way it's it's skewed at the top too
01:08:10
you for this health of the league or for your estimate the accuracy of those probabilities
01:08:15
>> well you know I tend to trust fang graphs but of course nobody's perfect
01:08:19
they I did have that thought shame like are these too low I mean the Guardians are in there some good organizations are
01:08:26
down in there. They seem >> That's ridiculous. >> But it connects to we're coming up on um
01:08:32
this next CBA and we're coming up on a lockout or we're coming out of lockout.
01:08:36
The M the owners are going to lock them out after this next season and it's it's
01:08:41
all going to be about a salary cap and the players resist this because the top end players do so well. But it does it
01:08:48
doesn't seem healthy to me. I mean, I I generally favor players, by the way,
01:08:52
when it comes to these negotiations, but it doesn't seem healthy to me to the
01:08:55
organiz to the league to have that kind of disparity at the start of the season.
01:09:00
Like, you're your whole fan base, more than half of the fans are looking at a
01:09:05
one one and a half percent chance of winning the whole thing. Really? >> Yeah. I mean, again, I I'm I I That's a
01:09:13
problem with a That's a problem of a salary floor, not a salary cap. that is
01:09:16
there are a lot of >> teams in baseball that are not trying to compete. >> Okay.
01:09:23
>> Right. Um and I can I could name them. They would correspond to those ones with
01:09:28
1% 2%. Uh there are some teams that are small market and actually trying to compete.
01:09:32
>> Milwaukee had the best record or whatever last year. I get it. But you know, but look, we know how
01:09:37
probabilities work. Yeah. >> And they all get stacked. They get stacked. >> No. No. It's And I do think that there's
01:09:42
a problem. I mean I mean at the top you can look at baseball and actually argue it's one of the highest parody leagues
01:09:47
in the sense that at the top you know like if you look at kind of World Series winners or like you know like playoff
01:09:54
teams over the last like couple decades it's actually almost all the league is
01:09:58
represented. >> This is I just want to address Kate's point just for one second. Obviously
01:10:02
let's I know it was 19 out of 30. Let's just imagine it was 15 out of 30 just
01:10:06
for simplicity. That's half right. Obviously, the bottom half of the teams have lower than half the win probability
01:10:12
by definition, right? >> And so the question is what would be a number you would feel comfortable with,
01:10:17
right? Because right now, if it's more if they're in the 1% or less than 1%
01:10:21
range, my guess is Fan Graphs has that at 20 or 25%. >> Total for the bottom 15 teams. That
01:10:29
doesn't seem that bad to me in terms of a total prediction. Like in other words,
01:10:34
if I had to bet you, I'll take the top half, Kade, you get the bottom half, and
01:10:39
I got to give you three to one odds. You might even say that's not enough. You
01:10:44
might even say, I got to give you 5 to one odds, 6 to1 odds. So, I'm not sure
01:10:49
20% 25% probability for the bottom 15 teams, which is only an average of about 1.5% per team. I'm not sure that's too
01:10:59
low. As a matter of fact, >> it's it's not it it doesn't speak the
01:11:02
most directly to unhealthiness. It's really about the yeartoyear >> that's the if it's the same team that's
01:11:08
different that's different that have no chance because I'm not I would not disagree with you. I
01:11:14
would just hold on as long as you're >> as long as you're going to use an
01:11:17
example. Let's use the actual numbers because you can't take the the 15th team
01:11:21
is 1.5%. And so the average of the bottom 15 is more like 8.9. Okay, so we're talking about 1% then let's say
01:11:31
the average is 1%. So 15%. >> So I got to give you five or six to one odds. That seems pretty well calibrated
01:11:37
to me. And by the way, >> it's not a question of calibration. So it's a it's a good qu it's a you're
01:11:41
you're raising a decent point, but that's not the point I'm raising. But
01:11:44
but but but Shane's I would address Shane and and to some extent what you're
01:11:49
saying, Eric, by pointing to other leagues. And I don't have answers to this, but what do you think that number
01:11:54
is? Here's what I'd turn back to you, Eric. What do you think that number is
01:11:57
at the start if if there were let's pick any organization that represents fan
01:12:01
graphs for NFL football? What do you think the bottom 16 teams get in NFL on the average season?
01:12:10
>> I'm going to say my first I'm going to stick with my first guess somewhere
01:12:15
between 25 and 30%. >> Yeah, my first guess was 30 third. My first guess was two percentage. Um which
01:12:21
I have no idea. >> What are the chances that a bottom half team in the NBA wins the championship?
01:12:25
zero. >> Yeah. This this these are the questions I would ask, >> right? Yeah. So, I mean like I would say
01:12:30
like like so like the NBA, >> you know, like the NBA to get to that 15% would you how many teams would you
01:12:38
have to include or or like Yeah, I think it's got to be for the bottom half of
01:12:43
teams in the NBA, it's got to be like more like 5% or something like that. I
01:12:47
don't know actually. I mean, again, people who do real predictions, >> right?
01:12:50
>> Okay. Well, that's that's that's all fair. >> Isn't it is it Yeah. Yeah. So,
01:12:56
>> yeah, that's the question. That's the question. That is By the way, what do
01:12:59
you think the Dodgers are >> on the same analysis? >> I see most stat I mean, they're probably
01:13:06
too high, but I don't know, like 20% or something like that. >> That's what I was going to guess.
01:13:11
Somewhere around 20%. >> 27. What do you think the second highest is? It's the Braves. What?
01:13:16
>> Half that. >> Less than half that. >> Should nine one third that 27 and one
01:13:21
third that 27 and 1/3. a more >> people don't know I I and that's the
01:13:25
part that I don't think is well calibrated. I do not think any of these prediction models are able to handle
01:13:31
this like kind of tail team on paper the Dodgers because I think the Pakakota predictions had them predicted to be
01:13:38
like 105 wins or something like that which is also insane. I think uh I I I think we're we are our prediction models
01:13:47
are I think miscalibrated for a team like the Dodgers where it's kind of you
01:13:53
know on paper you think they should dominate everybody and you forget what baseball's actually like.
01:13:57
>> Well, so just for what it's worth, the wins from fang graphs that are driving
01:14:01
these numbers are 99.4. So it's not as extreme as you might think. Though I know 99 is still a high number for
01:14:08
projected wins. So that's a very high >> if you gave 100. I mean, we scoff
01:14:12
usually at 100 wins at the start of the season as a prediction. >> This is 6 below that.
01:14:17
>> Well, right. Right. Right. >> Why don't Why don't we wrap it there,
01:14:19
fellas? Um, this has been another full hour, a little bit more than a full hour of sports analytics here on Wharton
01:14:26
Moneyball. For the whole team, Audi Winer and Absentia, the three guys who have been in here for this show, me for
01:14:32
most of it, Eric for the whole thing, Shane for the whole thing. Thank you guys for listening. Big shout out. Deion
01:14:37
Simpkins makes this whole thing go around. Uh, Marissa Raina, our producer, and Deep Patel, the boss lady, Aaron
01:14:44
Tran, running some valuable support. Aaron Tran jumped in here at the break and drop some knowledge on us. Thanks to
01:14:49
the whole team. Thank you guys for listening. Come back and join us next time. Between now and then, enjoy your
01:14:55
sports.