00:00:00
What you really want is a real estate
00:00:01
agent who knows the market. You want
00:00:04
someone who understands what you can and
00:00:06
cannot afford. Think back before you
00:00:09
were ordering your stakes through a
00:00:11
subscription service where the steaks
00:00:12
just showed up on your front door. Think
00:00:14
back to when you went to the butcher and
00:00:16
you were trying to decide the difference
00:00:17
between a porter house and a ribeye and
00:00:19
a New York strip. The butcher is the
00:00:22
subject matter expert. And in this
00:00:24
model, Zillow empowers real estate
00:00:26
agents who are in fact the subject
00:00:28
matter expert. And today I'm really
00:00:30
excited because we have with us the vice
00:00:33
president of brand and product marketing
00:00:36
at Zillow. Her name is Beverly Jackson
00:00:40
and she is doing some very interesting
00:00:42
things at Zillow. Welcome Beverly.
00:00:45
>> Hi Barbara. Hi Americas.
00:00:47
>> Hi Beverly.
00:00:49
>> Hello. I mean you're a company that I
00:00:51
think everybody knows Zillow. You just
00:00:54
celebrated 20 years. Um, and you're
00:00:57
trying to figure out what your next step
00:00:59
is for your next decade. Um, and I know
00:01:02
you've had a really interesting
00:01:04
background also. Which one you want to
00:01:06
start with? How cool Zillow is or how
00:01:08
cool you are?
00:01:09
>> Well, let's always start with how cool
00:01:11
Zillow is because I pale in comparison.
00:01:13
I pale in comparison. I trust Trust me.
00:01:17
>> All right. Well, let's start with
00:01:18
Zillow. One of the things that I think
00:01:20
is interesting is I do think people know
00:01:22
what Zillow is and they know it's in the
00:01:24
real estate market, but can you explain
00:01:26
to us or our listeners like what your
00:01:29
model is, how you make your money? Are
00:01:31
you a traditional typical real estate
00:01:34
company? I don't think so. So, can you
00:01:36
explain to us what how the whole thing
00:01:38
works?
00:01:39
>> Wow. You just went straight in, Barbara.
00:01:41
Just straight in.
00:01:43
>> I can't waste any time.
00:01:44
>> Big L no chaser. Big rock no chaser.
00:01:48
Um, so Zillow is one of or the most
00:01:53
beloved brand in real estate. Like
00:01:55
everybody knows what it is. Everybody
00:01:57
depends on it. Everybody leans into it.
00:02:00
It is sort of everyone's secret
00:02:02
obsession.
00:02:03
Um it it all started though because of
00:02:07
this desire to empower consumers to as
00:02:11
as we say as Zillow to turn the lights
00:02:13
on and to create some transparency for
00:02:15
consumers which anytime consumers have
00:02:18
transparency there's a sense of
00:02:20
empowerment for consumers right and so
00:02:22
that's always a good thing and so if you
00:02:23
can find a way to fill that gap like
00:02:26
that is where consumers like fall in
00:02:29
love with you and that has been the the
00:02:32
sort of resiliency of the Zillow brand
00:02:34
over the last 20 years. And so, if you
00:02:36
think back to the narrative that
00:02:38
originally Lloyd and Rich were just
00:02:41
trying to figure out how to buy a house
00:02:42
themselves, they're like two young guys
00:02:44
just trying to figure out how to buy a
00:02:45
house.
00:02:46
>> And you know, when you're when you're a
00:02:48
scientist or you're a math guy or a math
00:02:51
gal, the thing that you want to know is
00:02:52
is am I paying too much? Like, how much
00:02:55
is this worth? Like, can I afford it?
00:02:57
>> Exactly.
00:02:59
>> Those haven't changed.
00:03:00
>> Y
00:03:00
>> that's the part I think is super
00:03:01
interesting. So, I've read some reports
00:03:03
about Zillow, and it's kind of like it's
00:03:06
in the world of social media and and
00:03:09
scrolling and things like that, and
00:03:11
everybody's always been interested in
00:03:13
real estate, the consumer market, like
00:03:14
just as a, you know, as a neophy, as
00:03:17
someone who doesn't know anything. How
00:03:18
much do things cost? How much? That kind
00:03:20
of idea. And I think that that's what's
00:03:23
so interesting about Zillow is that you
00:03:25
tapped into the way consumers shop that
00:03:28
don't know anything, right? I think the
00:03:31
the idea is if you think about it, I'll
00:03:33
go back and answer your first question a
00:03:35
little bit more thoroughly. So, right,
00:03:36
so one of the ways that we make money is
00:03:38
we pro we provide solutions in the
00:03:40
marketplace, right? And so we always say
00:03:42
to real estate agents who are our
00:03:44
partners in this journey of helping
00:03:45
people to get home is that you do real
00:03:48
estate so we can do tech, right? Because
00:03:49
we're at the heart of it. We're a tech
00:03:51
company. And that idea of creating this
00:03:53
estimate and providing transparency,
00:03:55
there's a fairly sophisticated algorithm
00:03:57
that runs that that ingests that data of
00:04:00
every home in America and knows
00:04:01
effectively how much it cost or how much
00:04:04
it's worth. And then that level of
00:04:06
unlock and transparency for the consumer
00:04:09
has a value in the marketplace.
00:04:10
>> I want to build a bit more context with
00:04:12
Barbara's questions and line of
00:04:14
questioning here and to step back just a
00:04:16
tad and say give us because I love this
00:04:19
point. This is the interface of tech and
00:04:20
real estate and the idea of of these
00:04:23
things coming together. Can you just
00:04:25
give us really quickly the broad
00:04:26
overview overview of what is the real
00:04:29
estate market look like right now? Talk
00:04:32
a little bit about is it growing, is it
00:04:33
shrinking, what what is the the overall
00:04:36
macro landscape look like in terms of
00:04:38
because you all have access to this data
00:04:39
and information and you have sort of
00:04:41
from the the the bird's eye view. So
00:04:43
talk a little bit about this industry.
00:04:45
Moreover, give us a sense of its size,
00:04:48
its, you know, all of these things that
00:04:49
you all pay, you know, quite a close
00:04:51
attention to.
00:04:52
>> So, I am an incredibly an incredibly
00:04:55
talented marketer, brand person, social
00:04:59
digital thought leader.
00:05:01
>> Yes,
00:05:01
>> I am not.
00:05:02
>> That is true.
00:05:04
>> Beverly's like, I am not an economist. I
00:05:07
>> play on TV
00:05:09
>> or neither am I a data scientist. But
00:05:11
but I will tell you that there are a
00:05:13
couple of things that are sort of
00:05:15
universal truth.
00:05:17
The macro is and has been tough for the
00:05:20
real estate vertical generally speaking.
00:05:23
>> Mhm.
00:05:23
>> That's that's the first truth. The
00:05:25
second truth is that it has the
00:05:26
landscape has become more competitive
00:05:29
>> and there are um and there are just
00:05:32
challenges with how to make it happen.
00:05:34
And the third reality is is no one no
00:05:37
one has stopped wanting to find home
00:05:40
because shelter is sort of like an
00:05:43
intimate personal um very uplose and um
00:05:48
significant part of anybody's life. So
00:05:50
there are these three things that are
00:05:52
the realities, right? And so there's not
00:05:53
a lot that I can do or Zillow can do
00:05:55
about the macro. The macro is what the
00:05:58
US macro is and it will be what it will
00:06:00
be, right? Fair enough. What we can do
00:06:03
is to be on top of it. We can provide
00:06:07
information. We can inform. We can
00:06:10
support and we can move to where the
00:06:12
market is.
00:06:13
>> I I got to interrupt because I I really
00:06:16
agree with that. When you think about
00:06:17
how you buy or sell a house as a
00:06:19
consumer, not as an expert, not as a
00:06:21
macroeconomist, what you really want to
00:06:23
do is figure out how much is my house
00:06:25
worth and how much should I pay for
00:06:27
another house at a not at the macro
00:06:29
level. at the micro level. That's really
00:06:31
what I want to know. And what I think is
00:06:34
interesting is what she said from the
00:06:35
beginning is that Zestimate gives you a
00:06:39
a reference point for everything, right?
00:06:43
>> And therefore, I have an idea of like
00:06:46
what I should expect to pay or not
00:06:48
expect to pay. Like I think that I mean
00:06:51
I agree the whole real estate market
00:06:53
matters and buyer is it a buyer market?
00:06:55
Is it a sellers market? Am I ever going
00:06:57
to? But really, when it comes right down
00:06:59
to it, I want to know how much I should
00:07:02
pay or how much I should get my house
00:07:04
sold for. And to me, that's what's cool
00:07:07
about Zillow.
00:07:08
>> Yeah. And just sorry, just to sorry,
00:07:09
real real quick, just to build on
00:07:11
Barbara's point.
00:07:12
>> I love this, Barbara. You always do
00:07:14
this. You always like take it to another
00:07:16
level, a higher insight. Zestimate.
00:07:18
>> That was all right. Wait a minute. Hold
00:07:20
it. That was branded. That's incredible.
00:07:22
Can you unpack the Zestimate brand?
00:07:24
That's the that's the main secret sauce
00:07:27
>> and connect it to why the Zestimate
00:07:30
brand the Zestimate uh cons analysis is
00:07:34
so much better than all that other
00:07:36
stuff.
00:07:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. Because
00:07:40
>> so I can so there there so many things
00:07:42
there's so many things. Okay. So first
00:07:43
of all I'm going to say this before you
00:07:46
worry about what you what your house is
00:07:48
worth or what you are going to pay or
00:07:51
what you can sell for your house. Every
00:07:53
consumer starts with what can I afford?
00:07:55
And so affordability is really the
00:07:58
insight at the heart of the home
00:08:00
ownership home buying process and before
00:08:04
that it is what does home mean to me?
00:08:07
Because while home might mean a
00:08:09
McMansion or it might mean um a
00:08:12
two-bedroom condo overlooking the water
00:08:15
or it might mean you know a bungalow
00:08:19
craftsmanstyle home, right? Mhm.
00:08:22
>> It could also mean an apartment that's
00:08:24
really close to my job that allows me to
00:08:26
walk my dogs on a walking trail behind
00:08:29
the behind the community. It might mean
00:08:31
a community gym and it might mean close
00:08:34
proximity to work. And so we start with
00:08:37
what is home and what does home mean?
00:08:39
>> What do I want? And then what can I
00:08:42
afford? And then we get to all the
00:08:43
whisbang gee golly stuff that is
00:08:47
>> I like that whisbang stuff.
00:08:49
>> Yeah, me too. Let's go. So, so let's
00:08:52
talk about the Zestimate for a second.
00:08:54
The Zestimate. I always think about this
00:08:56
as the Zestimate and I, and I say this,
00:08:58
I'm sure this is not what Rich and Lloyd
00:09:00
were thinking when, you know, I came
00:09:01
along and decided that this should be
00:09:03
the thing. Okay? I think about the
00:09:06
Zestimate as the original AI. It's the
00:09:09
OG of AI, right? And so, it took
00:09:11
technology. So, think about this before
00:09:13
for a second. And you know, I won't
00:09:15
speak to how old I am or when I bought
00:09:17
my first home, but the reality is is
00:09:19
when I first bought my first house, it
00:09:22
was a book that you got and you went
00:09:23
into the person's office and you thumb
00:09:25
through this big old book.
00:09:26
>> Oh, yeah. It was awful.
00:09:27
>> And and that was how we got it. Or there
00:09:29
was some dot matrix printer. I know I'm
00:09:31
making myself sound ancient here.
00:09:33
>> That's right. With the green and white
00:09:34
stripes.
00:09:35
>> Exactly.
00:09:37
>> Yeah. But what I didn't have was a smart
00:09:40
device in my pocket that connected me to
00:09:44
just the neighborhoods that I could
00:09:46
drive around. Remember, you had to get
00:09:47
in the car with the real estate agent
00:09:49
and drive around, right? And the poor
00:09:50
real estate agent was just dragging this
00:09:52
person from home to home. But imagine
00:09:54
the power before you get in the car,
00:09:57
before you get through that big book of
00:09:59
knowing what you can afford and how much
00:10:01
something cost. Um, my mom used to say
00:10:03
this all the time. I have um champagne
00:10:06
taste and beer pockets and so I really
00:10:09
do like champagne. Um, but but the
00:10:11
reality is is you want to know what you
00:10:13
can afford before you show up and you
00:10:15
want to know what's within your range
00:10:17
and you want to know what some and and
00:10:18
and if you've never done it before, if
00:10:20
you are a first-time home buyer, what
00:10:22
effectively happens is you walk into
00:10:23
this not understanding how real estate
00:10:25
works.
00:10:26
>> You don't understand the complexity of
00:10:27
the deal. You're depending on a smart,
00:10:30
informed, savvy, well experienced real
00:10:34
estate agent to help guide you through
00:10:35
the process.
00:10:36
>> I don't trust her, by the way. right
00:10:38
from the beginning. I don't trust my
00:10:40
real estate agent ever.
00:10:42
>> Barbara, Barbara, are you revealing your
00:10:44
What's going on here? This is
00:10:45
>> That's what I like about Zillow. I
00:10:47
really don't trust if she's out for her
00:10:48
commission or he's out.
00:10:51
>> No, I I would say Barbara, I I'm going
00:10:53
to disagree with you. I'm going to
00:10:54
respectfully come on your show and
00:10:56
disagree with you. Um
00:10:58
>> trust your agent. I I tr my I have I
00:11:01
have been very very fortunate a I have
00:11:04
been very fortunate in my real estate
00:11:05
transactions that I've had really smart
00:11:07
savvy real estate folks who know the
00:11:09
market right because what you really
00:11:11
want is a real estate agent who knows
00:11:13
the market you want someone who
00:11:15
understands what you can and cannot
00:11:17
afford so these are small business small
00:11:19
entrepreneurs and in some instances
00:11:22
they're not that small these are
00:11:23
multi-million dollar businesses
00:11:25
>> and so these are local experts and so
00:11:29
Think back before you were ordering your
00:11:31
steaks through a subscription service
00:11:33
where the steaks just showed up on your
00:11:35
front door. Think back to when you went
00:11:37
to the butcher and you were trying to
00:11:38
decide the difference between a porter
00:11:40
house and a ribeye and a New York strip.
00:11:42
The butcher is the subject matter
00:11:44
expert. And in this model, Zillow
00:11:47
empowers real estate agents who are in
00:11:49
fact the subject matter.
00:11:50
>> Interesting. Interesting.
00:11:52
>> Let let me I want to I want to build on
00:11:54
Barbara's point. You tell us, Beverly.
00:11:55
I'll bet, maybe I'm wrong, but I will
00:11:58
bet that Zillow has some kind of
00:12:00
mechanism that vets
00:12:02
>> the real estate agents and and perhaps
00:12:05
there's some sort of, you know, rating
00:12:07
that let let me get the five-star real
00:12:09
estate agents or the the ones that are
00:12:11
consistently getting super high uh
00:12:15
evaluations from the individuals that
00:12:17
they're selling to. Is there some kind
00:12:19
of mechanism that allows for that
00:12:22
discovery? So, I don't know that it's
00:12:24
every real estate agent is responsible
00:12:26
for their business. What Zillow is
00:12:28
building. And so, if you go back to one
00:12:30
of Barbara's original questions is what
00:12:32
is the Zillow business model? It's in
00:12:34
fact a two-sided marketplace. And it's
00:12:36
really four businesses in one. And we
00:12:38
can unpack that later. But in the
00:12:40
two-sided marketplace perspective, we
00:12:42
are serving up information to consumers
00:12:44
to empower them in their transactions.
00:12:47
For real estate agents, what we are and
00:12:49
real estate professionals, what we're
00:12:50
building are tools to help them be good
00:12:53
at their jobs. And so they don't have to
00:12:56
build tech. They don't need to go.
00:12:57
>> She's offending the agents because both
00:12:59
of them are her customers. It's not just
00:13:01
the end user. It's also the agent. She
00:13:03
can't like say what I said.
00:13:05
>> Well, I don't believe that. I really do.
00:13:08
I have like I think
00:13:10
>> right. I don't trust anybody.
00:13:12
>> Yeah. That Well, Barf, I have trust
00:13:14
issues, too. We can talk about that
00:13:15
later. That's funny, Beverly. Barbara
00:13:17
doesn't trust me, okay? I work with her
00:13:19
every day. So, this is just a thing.
00:13:21
It's okay. It's a thing for Barbara.
00:13:23
There you go.
00:13:24
>> Interesting. That's You have to rethink
00:13:25
what the model is here. Like, you're
00:13:27
thinking about traditional real estate,
00:13:28
but really, she's talking about a
00:13:30
two-sided platform. Absolutely. Where
00:13:32
she's providing information to the end
00:13:34
user, and by bringing those end users
00:13:36
on, she's providing leads to the real
00:13:38
estate agent. And therefore in this
00:13:41
middle data platform world they they can
00:13:45
serve both both sides both the consumer
00:13:47
and the customer.
00:13:49
>> And Barbara to to go to America's point
00:13:51
where like you're asking me if there's a
00:13:53
rating system for real estate agents you
00:13:55
know the beauty of the free market is if
00:13:58
you're good at your job if you really
00:14:01
able to do this like I where I live I
00:14:04
expect someone to know the difference
00:14:06
between Henderson and Summerland. When I
00:14:08
lived in LA, I expected someone to know
00:14:10
the difference between Roondo Beach and
00:14:11
Manhattan Beach because those are
00:14:13
>> right next to each other in terms of
00:14:15
communities. But the reality is is
00:14:16
they're very different. When I worked in
00:14:18
Manhattan and I lived in New Jersey and
00:14:21
I was like, "This commute is too much. I
00:14:23
can't keep going through the tunnel."
00:14:24
When talking to a real estate agent, I
00:14:26
expected them to have some level of
00:14:28
understanding about whether or not I
00:14:30
could live in Hoboken and still commute
00:14:32
into men in mid to midtown. Like, you're
00:14:34
expecting your real estate
00:14:37
Yeah,
00:14:39
it's impossible. But but that's what
00:14:41
you're expecting, right? And so like you
00:14:43
are expecting a real estate agent,
00:14:46
>> a good real estate agent to know the
00:14:47
difference between Morristown and
00:14:50
Morristown.
00:14:52
>> Like that's what a good real estate
00:14:54
agent does. And the market decides
00:14:57
decide whether or not that happens. And
00:14:59
that's like in any that's in any any
00:15:01
space, right? That's in any space.
00:15:02
>> Interesting.
00:15:03
>> Okay. So, let me ask you, we're talking
00:15:04
to Beverly Jackson, who's the vice
00:15:06
president of brand and product
00:15:08
marketing. So, let's go to one of the
00:15:10
topics at America's likes, which is the
00:15:12
Zillow brand and how you market. Now,
00:15:15
one of the things I think is interesting
00:15:16
here is that for whatever else, a
00:15:19
complicated two-sided platform and data
00:15:21
and blah blah blah. In the end, if you
00:15:23
look at real estate, it's a pretty
00:15:25
stressful purchase, you know, and like
00:15:27
my my issues of trust aside, there is a
00:15:30
lot of uncertainty, right? And so when
00:15:33
you're building this brand of Zillow as
00:15:36
the vice president, what was your title
00:15:38
again? Of brand and product marketing,
00:15:40
exactly what do you do to build that
00:15:43
Zillow brand? How do you build that
00:15:45
emotional connection? You know, Americas
00:15:47
was playing with the word Zestimate. How
00:15:49
do you know that's all branding stuff,
00:15:50
right?
00:15:52
How do you what do you think about what
00:15:54
are your campaigns like?
00:15:56
>> Yeah. And to before you answer that
00:15:57
incredibly poignant question that
00:15:59
Barbara just raised, I'm going to layer
00:16:01
on top of it. Barbara's going to be
00:16:02
shocked by this, but I'm going to be I'm
00:16:05
going to layer on top of this, Beverly
00:16:06
something you said which is powerful,
00:16:08
and that is when you buy the home, the
00:16:10
place where you're going to live, that's
00:16:12
all about your identity. That's all
00:16:14
about I'm sorry, Barbara.
00:16:16
>> I listen, I could I cannot resist. I
00:16:19
love that idea that you guys are talking
00:16:21
about because it for me it's like that
00:16:23
that that's that is a natural gateway to
00:16:26
messaging a conversation that can create
00:16:29
the kind of connection that Barbara's
00:16:30
talking about that notion that this is
00:16:32
my home. Speak on that in the context of
00:16:35
Barbara's question about building the
00:16:36
Zillow brand.
00:16:37
>> Sure.
00:16:38
>> I like I would love and you know I told
00:16:40
you this whole thing about how I'm this
00:16:41
brilliant marketer. I would love to take
00:16:43
credit for having built the Zillow
00:16:45
brand, but it was well on its way to
00:16:47
being an amazing an amazing iconic
00:16:51
legendary brand well before I showed up.
00:16:53
My job is to turn up the heat on it a
00:16:55
little bit. My job is to take some of
00:16:58
the new products because I do product
00:17:00
marketing as well and I do B2B marketing
00:17:02
and BTOC marketing as Barbara has so
00:17:05
eloquently pointed out and those are
00:17:08
challenges, right?
00:17:09
>> Yes. When I do this with a product that
00:17:12
is very much an analog experience,
00:17:14
buying a house to date has been an very
00:17:17
analog experience. You at some point got
00:17:20
to get off the couch, get a tour, and go
00:17:23
see the house that you plan to buy,
00:17:25
right? At some point, you have to go
00:17:27
through your finances and sit down with
00:17:29
a loan officer and figure out what you
00:17:31
can afford.
00:17:32
>> At some point, you have to talk to your
00:17:35
partner and your family about where
00:17:37
you're going to live. At some point, it
00:17:39
has to meet the needs of your career and
00:17:42
lifestyle is. And whether you're
00:17:44
commuting or working from home, whether
00:17:46
you like people walking on top of you in
00:17:48
the middle of the night and doing a
00:17:50
dance party or
00:17:52
>> live out in the woods by yourself, like
00:17:54
at some point that level of personal
00:17:57
bespoke, what does home mean to me has
00:18:00
to come center of the narrative, right?
00:18:03
And so for all the things that Zillow
00:18:05
is, at the end of the day, our goal is
00:18:08
to provide you with some level of
00:18:10
certainty and support as you traverse
00:18:13
that process, right? As you go through
00:18:15
that journey.
00:18:16
>> And then on the and we could talk about
00:18:18
the B2B side, right? And so Zillow has
00:18:20
been the brand has been what the brand
00:18:23
is. But what we have been quietly doing
00:18:25
and not so quietly actually we but what
00:18:27
we've been really hyperfocused on over
00:18:29
the last couple of years are two big
00:18:31
important things is building products
00:18:33
that make this more transparent and
00:18:35
easier. Right? And so there are lots of
00:18:37
products.
00:18:38
>> We can talk about buyability. We can
00:18:40
talk about you know a bunch of the other
00:18:42
products that have come to market in the
00:18:44
last couple years that empower consumers
00:18:46
to do that. Mhm.
00:18:48
>> And then we have to create some level of
00:18:50
trust in the storytelling for consumers
00:18:54
that they can trust us with their data.
00:18:56
>> They us with this journey.
00:18:58
>> They can ask questions and feel like
00:19:01
somebody's got their back.
00:19:03
>> We will always double down on which is
00:19:05
one of the reasons why I took this job
00:19:07
is that consumers are a northstar.
00:19:10
Consumers in the middle of all of this.
00:19:11
And so well before you start to think
00:19:13
about the value prop of Zillow to a B2B
00:19:16
audience or an agent audience or a
00:19:18
partner audience,
00:19:20
>> it doesn't work if consumers don't trust
00:19:22
us.
00:19:23
>> Exactly. And I think that's really
00:19:25
important because this is a scary thing
00:19:28
for most people. You know, this is like
00:19:30
the biggest purchase. You feel like
00:19:32
you're making an investment. You can
00:19:33
make a really stupid investment. And
00:19:35
what saying is I don't understand the
00:19:37
macro environment and you know who does
00:19:40
you know and all these other things and
00:19:42
if I make a mistake here I could just
00:19:44
turn my life upside down. So I really
00:19:47
want to feel that trust that you're
00:19:49
talking about and if you give me a brand
00:19:51
and data you know and expectations that
00:19:54
makes me just takes a little bit of that
00:19:56
uncertainty out of it. I think
00:19:58
>> interesting
00:20:01
so think about this for a second
00:20:02
Barbara. if you if you think about what
00:20:05
the brand means because remember Zillow
00:20:07
also has a rentals business.
00:20:09
>> Mhm.
00:20:10
>> Right. And so if you're a homeowner like
00:20:12
back in the old days like you know in
00:20:14
the 2020s in the early 2020s when you
00:20:17
had a house and maybe you wanted to buy
00:20:19
a bigger house some some people were
00:20:21
very fortunate. They could keep their
00:20:22
first house and then they rent out their
00:20:25
that that first house and they move on
00:20:27
to a bigger house, right? And so some
00:20:29
renters decide, hey, I want I don't know
00:20:31
if I want to live in this kind of an
00:20:33
environment. I might want to rent a
00:20:34
house. Some renters love living in
00:20:37
multif family environments that are
00:20:38
shared community environments, right?
00:20:40
People like that, especially if you're
00:20:41
younger in life, but we're now finding
00:20:44
out that older people also like rental
00:20:46
communities because they provide
00:20:48
community. And so it always goes back to
00:20:50
for me, what does home mean
00:20:53
>> for that consumer? And so the brand is
00:20:56
always interested in creating marketing
00:20:59
or content or campaigns that center on
00:21:02
that. And so I want to speak to what
00:21:05
we're currently working on and what
00:21:06
we're currently what we recently just
00:21:08
launched, right? Because this gets to
00:21:09
the heart of Barbara's point. You got to
00:21:11
start someplace.
00:21:13
>> This is the first time you've ever done
00:21:14
it. You don't know. It's confusing. What
00:21:16
is title insurance? I don't really know.
00:21:18
Do I need a mortgage? What's an interest
00:21:19
rate? How do you calculate it? Like
00:21:22
>> variable verse six.
00:21:24
Do I need a
00:21:25
>> My stress level is rising as we're
00:21:27
speaking. I don't know what's going on
00:21:28
here.
00:21:29
>> What's my debt ratio? Like how much do I
00:21:31
need for a down payment? Like all those
00:21:33
things, right? What are seller points?
00:21:35
What are buyer points? Like what's the
00:21:36
commission that I got to give to
00:21:38
somebody to do this for me? Because I
00:21:39
need a professional, right? And by the
00:21:41
way, no one ever goes into their
00:21:42
lawyer's office and negotiates with
00:21:44
their lawyer. I'll give you $500 an
00:21:45
hour. No, I want 750. So why you do that
00:21:47
to a real estate agent who's bringing
00:21:49
you a level of expertise? But that's me
00:21:51
defending real estate agents. So, let me
00:21:52
go back to consumers and mind my
00:21:53
business. Okay. All right. So, here's
00:21:56
the deal. We launched recently something
00:21:58
called Someday Starts Today. We launched
00:22:00
it on Grammy Sunday. And so, you're
00:22:01
going to see this for us. And this is
00:22:03
really important because this isn't a
00:22:04
campaign for us. This is really, really
00:22:06
important for the team and how we
00:22:08
thought about this. And so, the insight,
00:22:09
we had a lot of data that this was hard.
00:22:11
You know, one of our executives said
00:22:13
that, you know, 50% of the people that
00:22:15
buy a house cry at some point
00:22:17
>> all the time throughout the entire
00:22:19
process. It is so
00:22:22
Barbara,
00:22:23
>> I'm sensing a theme here.
00:22:25
>> A very clear theme here.
00:22:27
>> America's the next time she wants to buy
00:22:28
a house or anything. Will you call me?
00:22:31
I'm going to get on a plane and
00:22:32
>> Totally. I'm going to We're both going
00:22:34
to go over to Barbara's house, Beverly,
00:22:35
and we're just going to give her a nice
00:22:36
warm blanket. We're just going to like
00:22:38
could you calm her down?
00:22:39
>> Yes. We're going to give her that
00:22:40
weighted anxiety blanket. You know, take
00:22:43
some of this away from you, Barbara. We
00:22:44
really can't. But but the reality is is
00:22:47
that the anxiety of not knowing, right?
00:22:49
And in for a lot of consumers and we
00:22:52
used to say young consumers but the
00:22:54
reality is we're talking about
00:22:55
millennials at this point and
00:22:56
millennials no disrespect to them but
00:22:59
you know they got a couple years on them
00:23:00
now. And so when we talk about
00:23:04
millennials having done this for the
00:23:05
first time and having the anxiety of
00:23:07
like I'm at a certain age and I'm never
00:23:09
going to be able to buy a house or I
00:23:11
can't figure out how to do it. And
00:23:12
people get stuck by the enormity and the
00:23:16
complexity and the intensity and the
00:23:18
emotional sort of stress of having to do
00:23:21
this. And we've talked about this. We
00:23:23
talk about this all the time. But the
00:23:25
reality is you got to start somewhere.
00:23:28
You got to start somewhere. And in this
00:23:30
particular instance, the reason we
00:23:32
landed on this campaign or this platform
00:23:34
called Someday Starts Today is because
00:23:37
the action will look different for every
00:23:39
person.
00:23:40
>> But you got to take the first step.
00:23:41
Barber, you got to figure out what you
00:23:43
can what's your credit rating? What can
00:23:46
you afford? Are you if you're a renter,
00:23:48
are you ready to move into a bigger
00:23:50
rental property, a rental property, or
00:23:52
are you ready to buy now? Like we talk
00:23:54
about those those different customer
00:23:56
journeys because
00:23:58
>> every place if home is in the middle,
00:24:01
everybody comes at it a different way.
00:24:03
Think about it like a bicycle spoke,
00:24:04
right? Everybody's starting points can
00:24:06
be a little different.
00:24:07
>> That's great. I really I mean really
00:24:09
historically it's never been that way.
00:24:11
It's always real estate. I've always
00:24:12
thought about it as a game. I used to
00:24:14
teach it in my marketing classes about
00:24:16
like behavioral economics ideas of like
00:24:19
the order you show people houses so that
00:24:22
you can upsell them, you know. You know,
00:24:24
like I mean it was all it was so sleepy.
00:24:26
It was really a sleepy concept and
00:24:29
that's why I have these very strong
00:24:31
feelings about
00:24:32
>> very strong. Yes, these are strong
00:24:34
feelings. Yes.
00:24:34
>> But I I look at them as snake oil
00:24:36
salespeople. I I they're really not and
00:24:39
I'm not you're not saying that. I'm just
00:24:41
telling you what I historically think
00:24:43
about. But the idea of starting with the
00:24:46
ideas, okay, forget all that. Let's
00:24:48
start with you. Let's start about what
00:24:50
you can afford. Let's start about what
00:24:53
your vision is. Let's look at it from
00:24:55
that point of view.
00:24:56
>> That's such a better place to start.
00:24:59
>> Yeah. And and just and just to build on
00:25:01
Barbara's point, Beverly, this is a
00:25:03
great opportunity because to Barbara's
00:25:06
point, you know, we can now we you
00:25:09
Zillow Zillow colleagues can now
00:25:11
>> your team now.
00:25:12
>> No, this is this is interesting because
00:25:14
to Barbara's point, Zillow can play a
00:25:16
role in rebranding the REAL ESTATE
00:25:18
AGENT. AH, in other words, we can help
00:25:22
Zillow can help create that trust almost
00:25:25
by association by look, we can bring
00:25:27
this marketplace together, etc., and we
00:25:29
can overcome those sleazy, you know,
00:25:30
whatever those baggage perceptions were
00:25:32
of these folk and we can play a role in
00:25:35
helping to rebrand the real estate
00:25:37
agent. Is that I mean, is that a fair
00:25:38
characterization?
00:25:39
>> That's a that that is a that is a that
00:25:41
is a a shade of it. I will say this, I
00:25:44
don't know who Barbara has been
00:25:45
interacting with.
00:25:47
>> Are you friends? You don't need no
00:25:50
friends. Okay, WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON
00:25:52
BARBARA'S friends later, but but here's
00:25:54
the thing.
00:25:55
>> That's good. You know, a lot of people
00:25:57
the process of just negotiating
00:26:01
>> is overwhelming and you're not and
00:26:03
Barbara just said it when she talked
00:26:04
about buyers versus sellers, right?
00:26:07
>> And so having someone who's fighting for
00:26:10
you is
00:26:12
>> really important, right? Having an agent
00:26:15
who understands what you're actually
00:26:17
looking for and can help you get to the
00:26:19
good stuff faster. And in some markets,
00:26:22
think about this for a second. The home
00:26:23
buying process can be incredibly
00:26:25
competitive in some markets and in some
00:26:27
macro environments. So, you want a
00:26:29
savvy, smart agent who knows what how
00:26:33
much a house should cost, how much that
00:26:35
neighborhood is worth, what you can what
00:26:37
you can really afford, where you can
00:26:39
flex, where you can't flex, where you
00:26:41
can where you can make the tradeoffs.
00:26:42
like having that person and us providing
00:26:46
that real estate agent with the right
00:26:48
tools to get the job done.
00:26:50
>> Game changer.
00:26:51
>> But we all so we share cuz Barbara
00:26:54
pointed out we share a consumer, right?
00:26:56
And real estate agents, we need to make
00:26:58
this easier for them as well. Like so if
00:27:02
you think about it, if the if the person
00:27:03
is sitting on their sofa
00:27:06
after a long day, after a long commute,
00:27:08
the kids are in bed and they're trying
00:27:10
to figure out like what's next? what can
00:27:11
we afford? We're ready to make the move.
00:27:13
We think, we're not sure. And they're
00:27:15
scrolling around on Zillow.
00:27:17
Having an agent by your side in that
00:27:20
process
00:27:21
empowers you even more. And so, I'm just
00:27:24
going to, this is my plea to Bart,
00:27:26
>> to think about the power of a real
00:27:28
estate agent, a good real estate agent,
00:27:31
as your partner in this. And so you
00:27:33
wouldn't go into uh a a legal court case
00:27:39
without um any other kind of legal
00:27:42
court.
00:27:43
>> That's a much better positioning than
00:27:45
>> Yes. Yes.
00:27:46
>> Never represent yourself in court. You
00:27:48
know, you know the old saying
00:27:50
>> or I don't even want to represent myself
00:27:52
in, you know, athletic stuff. I like to
00:27:54
have a personal trainer help me. You
00:27:55
know, I don't want
00:27:56
>> You want to have a personal trainer? You
00:27:58
know, if you got a twinge in your back,
00:28:00
you don't try to become the or I don't
00:28:01
want to fix self diagnos
00:28:04
helping me.
00:28:05
>> So, I think Zillow has a very healthy
00:28:07
respect for real estate professionals,
00:28:10
right?
00:28:11
>> But for all of that, nothing happens
00:28:14
without empowering the consumer. And so
00:28:16
my when we think about the next 20 years
00:28:19
of Zillow or the next 10 years of Zillow
00:28:21
or the next one year of Zillow, I really
00:28:23
do want well-informed, empowered,
00:28:27
>> thoughtful, uh, clients, consumers, uh,
00:28:31
buyers and sellers who have access to as
00:28:34
much information as they can possibly
00:28:36
have access to. I wanted
00:28:37
>> We're running out of time here. So, but
00:28:39
what you're describing is in some sense
00:28:41
the world of AI, the world of data to
00:28:44
the degree the and and I think of it
00:28:46
even in medicine. You know, I've been
00:28:47
reading about how many patients use AI
00:28:50
before they talk to the doctors and the
00:28:52
smart doctors encourage that because it
00:28:55
makes the patient more informed, ask
00:28:57
better questions, and you can get right
00:28:59
to the point. And I think that's what
00:29:01
you're saying here. Instead of fearing
00:29:03
the agent, you walk in with knowing what
00:29:06
you want, which is the way you started.
00:29:09
Um, and having the data that empowers me
00:29:12
to understand what I can afford and what
00:29:14
my expectations should be set at. And
00:29:17
then I work with a a partner who like
00:29:21
uses your platform to identify
00:29:23
appropriate leads. And you're kind of
00:29:24
like a dating service in some sense. Um,
00:29:27
you're setting up these partnerships and
00:29:30
you've got a better informed consumer
00:29:31
because of the Zillow data and you have
00:29:34
an agent picking out the right consumers
00:29:36
that they're willing to spend time with
00:29:38
and helping them find the right house
00:29:40
and helping them find the right thing.
00:29:42
It's the same. I think I think this is
00:29:45
the world we're coming into the use of
00:29:47
data, the use of AI to empower consumers
00:29:51
and to empower the agents. Um, and
00:29:54
Zillow is what, 20 years in this
00:29:56
business. They figured it out a long
00:29:58
time ago and the rest of us are just
00:30:00
catching up.
00:30:01
>> No, no, no, no. We do this with you. We
00:30:03
do this with you. But I will say this. I
00:30:04
I Americus, I want to say this. The AI
00:30:08
is going to supercharge the ability to
00:30:10
process and gather the data.
00:30:12
>> Yeah. To help,
00:30:12
>> you will still need to look for the
00:30:14
insight,
00:30:15
>> right? And the insight is what will help
00:30:17
us create campaigns and creative and
00:30:20
messaging that resonates with a consumer
00:30:24
>> that feels personal to them. And so what
00:30:27
I don't ever want to do in this
00:30:29
particular kind of business and I've
00:30:30
done lots of different kinds of
00:30:32
marketing, right? But in this
00:30:34
>> get to that,
00:30:35
>> you can invite me back later. U remember
00:30:37
I'm coming to Philly. I'm coming to
00:30:38
Philly. But but the reality is is
00:30:40
because this is so personal to each
00:30:42
consumer and each agent who's running
00:30:44
their business. I want it to feel like a
00:30:47
bespoke message to you. I want it to
00:30:50
feel like Zillow is thinking about me.
00:30:52
They're meeting me where I am and my
00:30:54
journey. They are helping me get the
00:30:56
information I need. And that's a
00:30:57
different kind of campaign to run. Like
00:30:59
that is so you start with this platform
00:31:01
that someday starts today and
00:31:03
recognizing that everybody's today is
00:31:05
different and everybody's starting point
00:31:06
is different. But then you have to layer
00:31:08
on like where do I meet you? Where do
00:31:10
you get this information? Is it on Tik
00:31:11
Tok? Is it on Instagram? Is it on
00:31:14
>> the Grammys? Is it on the Super Bowl? Is
00:31:16
it is it at a an experience where my
00:31:18
local community college, no, not
00:31:20
community college, my local Wharton is
00:31:22
hosting financial seminar on how to get
00:31:24
ready for my first home purchase.
00:31:26
>> Yes. And we do that at Warden, not Okie
00:31:27
dokie. Uh
00:31:31
>> yes. No, that's
00:31:32
>> I'm so out of time. Beverly Jackson,
00:31:35
it's been so wonderful talking to you
00:31:36
and it is very interesting thinking
00:31:38
about what you're describing in Zillow,
00:31:40
but I also think what you're describing
00:31:42
is modern marketing. You know, it's
00:31:44
about personalized customized marketing.
00:31:46
Bringing an end user to an agent to, you
00:31:49
know, the B TOC to B2B market. Bringing
00:31:51
them together on the platform of trust
00:31:53
and data and information, you know,
00:31:56
that's customer centric. Like that's
00:31:58
what you're describing and you're just
00:32:00
introducing this to the sleazy world of
00:32:02
real estate.
00:32:05
>> Barbara, real estate, one of the most
00:32:08
iconic important verticals in our
00:32:10
economy. Be Beverly, I'm trying I'm
00:32:13
trying to get Barbara to open up more.
00:32:14
She just won't express herself. She I
00:32:16
don't know why. I got to get her to come
00:32:18
out of her shell. I I don't know why. I
00:32:20
don't know what else I can do. You know,
00:32:21
>> we're going to get her an anxiety
00:32:23
blanket. That's the
00:32:24
>> Yes, we are.
00:32:25
>> We're going to throw her network and
00:32:27
introduce her. I know some amazing,
00:32:29
incredible agents. Listen, you know
00:32:30
what's going to happen, Barbara, is
00:32:32
every one of my agent friends that lives
00:32:34
in the tri-state area is going to be
00:32:36
ringing your doorbell. So,
00:32:38
>> that's awesome. because there are some
00:32:39
amazing, incredibly talented agents out
00:32:41
there. So, you let us know when you're
00:32:42
ready to buy your next home.
00:32:44
>> Anyway, Beverly Jackson, it's been a
00:32:46
pleasure having you on our show. Where
00:32:48
can our listeners go to find out all
00:32:50
this information? Although, I think
00:32:52
people know how to get to Zillow, but
00:32:53
tell us how to do it.
00:32:55
>> Sure. So, I would encourage anyone to
00:32:58
follow us on all of our socials. We are
00:33:00
sharing lots of information there. And
00:33:01
the beautiful part about our socials is
00:33:03
we aren't just promoting Zillow. What
00:33:05
we're doing is providing economic
00:33:07
information. We're providing market data
00:33:09
information and we are literally helping
00:33:12
to make it easier for consumers to be
00:33:15
empowered as they begin this this
00:33:17
journey. Beautiful. So just remember
00:33:18
that someday starts today.
00:33:21
>> Wow, that was well done.
00:33:23
>> Really well.
00:33:24
>> Well played.
00:33:25
>> Talk about how professional is. She has
00:33:26
an amazing background. That's why she's
00:33:28
so good.
00:33:30
Anyway, thank you so much. That's all
00:33:32
the time we have for today. We would
00:33:34
like to thank our producers Dion
00:33:35
Simpkins and Marissa Rena. And thank you
00:33:38
all for listening today. We'll be back
00:33:39
next week. Till then, this has been
00:33:41
Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
00:33:44
network. I'm Barbara Khan here with
00:33:46
America's Reed.
