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there are certain things that I value about myself and about my background or about my experience that I wouldn't mind
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people knowing more about [Music] um but I want to know the best way to convey that information because I'm not
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because especially because I'm not used to always having shared that in the workplace right and so I often take
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leaps of faith and like really being like all right really leaning into this research and see if it works and more
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often than not like I do actually find that people um want to learn about me and my
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background but are able also able to take respect like certain boundaries and not kind of push further than I might be
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comfortable welcome to a special edition of the ripple effect I'm Dan Loney in
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honor of Juneteenth this month senior advisor to the dean for the Coalition of equity and opportunity Candace
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Shropshire will be your special guest host in each episode this month Ken and Wharton faculty are focusing on the
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critical themes of diversity equity and inclusion we'll be covering a diverse
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range of topics bringing you the latest insights and knowledge that you could apply to your life and work so get ready
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to dive into this special edition of the ripple effect with guest host Ken Shropshire Ken great to talk to you as
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always thanks for your time Dan great to be with you so I guess let's start out
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by talking about where we stand right now around diversity Equity inclusion and seemingly the growing importance it
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feels like there is around the workplace around these issues well it's interesting I think we look at
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the lifetime line of the uh it's certainly a bigger moment than it's been
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but if you look at the high point just post George Floyd things have declined a little bit so it's important for us to
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have this conversation especially as it relates to the workplace well and I know you have a great guest
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lined up to discuss this so I will let you take it over with our special guest Rachel Arnett how are you
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doing well thanks for having me Ken no no good good to have you assistant professor of management here at the
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warden School and the work that you've done that we really want to zero in on is
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how to present yourself in the workplace which which is uh for an old school guy
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like me a very interesting question I mean you usually we used to just go to work but now there's this language
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that's really one of zero in on and it's it's conversations about bringing you
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your genuine or whole self to work what does that mean and don't trigger me with your answer
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well first of all first of all you're certainly right there are generational differences and
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this is even something of interest it's a topic right but I think increasingly
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like you said people are asking questions along these lines um I would say the whole idea of bringing
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your whole self to work might be a bigger chunk that I'm breaking off in my research because I'm not sure though
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even I'm there yet but what I do try to tackle my research is if you have something valued about yourself some
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aspect that particularly your race your ethnicity your nationality that you'd
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like to bring to work understanding whether and how you can do that right because the intuition is that it's risky
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it's uh potentially professionally um I don't want to say it's professionally uh dangerous at times it
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can feel like to to bring aspects of your identity that can feel stigmatized or stereotype in some way
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and so my research is really trying to unpack as we start to appreciate the value of
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different identities in the workplace how can you bring those identities to the workplace effectively if at all
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yeah as I was looking looking at your work and as I've heard you talk about in
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the past you know I was trying to think about the big benefit to them certainly there's
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the uh uh you know Millennial kind of more youthful I want to be who I am kind of
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presentation but also it's part of this whole struggle of how do we make the
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workplace in society better that it's kind of a you can almost say it's kind of an
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obligation to do this and it can can be more positive overall for everyone if you do
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so and you talk about it in terms of this uh Rich cultural identity expression I want you to tell us what what that is
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yeah so I think yeah we'll get into the question of why why should one do this
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and who is it for and you know who is it benefiting I think we'll get into that a
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little bit more I think that's a really important question as part that often
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comes out of this research but just to kind of start with what is the research even about yes so what I look at is what
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I call Rich cultural identity expression is this idea of bringing attention to your inner self as it relates to your
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race ethnicity or nationality and so that often means in practice talking about thoughts
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feelings or maybe less known experiences that relate to these important identities that people have in the
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workplace and particularly for people who are in the minority how can they do this in a way that feels meaningful to
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them and uh at the same time this synergistic with professional success um and so there's lots of different ways
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that people can engage in Rich cultural expression you know some people do it by
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talking about their background some people talk about important or valued Traditions that they currently engage in
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some people talk about experiences that have been challenging or difficult and how they've
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navigated that so we can delve into many different ways to engage in Rich cultural expression but the main idea is
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that it is delving deeper than just kind of surface level ways of making a quick
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reference to an identity um for example and it's really helping people to connect with you on a deeper
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level yeah and it's not a new issue I mean in some ways when I first heard you were talking
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about so I was thinking about in my youth having a gym coach tell us when I was 13 years old right after Dr King was
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killed we were all drawing afros and he said I don't understand why you guys are
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doing that I'm Italian and I don't and he said something like I don't bring
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spaghetti to work every day and it's kind of this is Junior High School kind
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of kind of conversation but but he really did you know it sticks in my head that there was this pushback against
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being who you are or coming in a certain way what what what's the impact of of
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doing this of of taking these steps that you're you're talking about that that I
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could have told my junior high a gym coach was one of the reasons why we need to
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come forward is really uh yeah you know I think and we can all have think of experiences like that that
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um really deeply impact us and unfortunately kind of teach us early on in life that it's not safe to talk about
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these topics sort of be who you are at work right um so you know for me personally I think
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about like once being in college being on an interview at a major uh for a major consulting company and telling
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somebody I'm from the south side of Chicago and then sort of saying oh isn't
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that like really dangerous right uh or you know like making an assumption that I'm like about where I'm from and the
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parts that are good and the parts that are bad and I immediately just kind of froze in the interview setting and
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thought you know I can't even I don't even feel comfortable to elaborate about
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my background further in any way with this person because I can already see the direction that this is going and so
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um I think sometimes in those types of situations maybe it is not safe right you might be
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reading the room correctly at least in those exact moments like you don't always have the opportunity to say Hey
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you know you as my you know teacher or you as my interviewer I'm gonna stand up
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and and make a a put a stake in the ground um and do this but I think increasingly there are there are
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opportunities to connect with people in a more meaningful way maybe not when you
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feel like you're actively being stereotyped but when you're getting to know your colleagues and your co-workers
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I think there are opportunities to um discuss let's say for example like now I I I
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will often proactively tell people about growing up from the south side of Chicago navigating predominantly black
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and predominantly white neighborhoods based on that experience and how that's
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really shaped me as a person as a scholar and I think that that helps people to see not just like where I'm from but
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also understand um why where I'm from is still impacts my life still impacts who I am and it's
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so meaningful to me personally right um I think there's a lot of ways in which even today talking about black
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hair you know I often think about like black women in hair but you're making me
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see like I need to talk even about black men and hair more because to your point
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like there's a lot of meaning associated with wearing your hair and it's like
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natural texture and not feeling like you have to um assimilate by cutting or straightening your hair and so
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helping people understand why that's a point of Pride to be able to wear hair
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natural and things like that I think helps to debunk certain stereotypes like it's not that people don't know like
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it's not that black people don't know what professional hair looks like or is
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considered to be in American society but there's value to kind of being able to
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reshape those Norms so that you're not bending over backwards to try to blend
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in right so so if we put this in into practice the manager that knows you're from the
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south side of Chicago or the manager that that looks at a unique hairstyle that an
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African-American might have should that manager ask questions about those things is is it you know is the
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reverse okay is it okay to engage in these conversations yeah it's such a good question I'm so
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glad you asked that because um when I was first presenting This research like I did how an audience
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member said like okay so what I'm taking away is that I need to be asking or even maybe telling my
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colleagues of color to like talk about their identities more right um and I would say that's not
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necessarily what I'm actually recommending I think it's really important that people
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see Rich cultural expression is something that they're doing for their own benefit and on their own terms and
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so you can create spaces um that kind of invite people in a way like to open up what they would like to
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or create the opportunity so for example you know whether that is um getting to know you ice breakers or
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something like that or whether that's just creating space the beginning of a
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meeting to talk to people informally before you delve into the work that you're doing right so even just having
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places where people have the opportunity to connect on a personal level is one part of that but I also often say that
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leaders you know they can set a precedent of um recognizing that rich cultured expression does actually make people
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feel quite vulnerable and setting a press in themselves by making themselves vulnerable right sharing aspects of
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themselves and maybe um they wouldn't typically feel comfortable sharing the workplace that
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there's a lot of research that shows that when one person engages in more kind of um in-depth disclosure other
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people are likely to reciprocate so even just signaling I'm willing to be vulnerable can signal to others maybe I
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can when I'm ready try to do the same thing um and so part of it is just creating
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the space for it and then the other part is when people do kind of volunteer that
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information being willing to show engagement right so you know saying like oh that's interesting like if you bring
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up the experience with your uh with your with your was it your gym coach my gym coach
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yeah so if you bring up a bit say again Mr consolo yes I remember well oh goodness
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so if you if you bring up that experience you know saying you're like oh wow that sounds like that must have
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been that must have really impacted you like is that something you want to talk about more
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maybe it is maybe it isn't and so it's sort of saying realizing that you've
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opened the door and they can show interest but also leave it up to you how much you want to elaborate and dig into
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that so it sounds like the other side of this too I'm asking about the the manager that's not diverse asking that
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kind of question but it sounds like too that that if you are the introvert or you don't want to take on this business
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of educating the white employer it's not something you you have have to do but it is
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something to contemplate in a way maybe you've never thought about before that
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it could be a positive for the workplace if you do yeah you know you know time people for many different reasons that
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don't feel comfortable with this idea of opening up about let's say their race in
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the workplace right and you know I'm very extroverted and I still count myself in that camp of you know
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you know there I I can I often feel this tension like on the one hand I feel like
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like I'm not an exhibit right I'm not something that's like on display if like
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the education of others you know I'm a person and so I feel like I should just
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be able to be wherever I want to be and not have to like think about how to manage my identity for the sake of
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others or their benefit but I do think that with time as you as I've started to kind
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of leave my own research I've started to realize there are certain things that I
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value about myself and about my background or about my experience that I wouldn't mind people knowing more about
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um but I want to know the best way to convey that information because I'm not
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because especially because I'm not used to always having shared that in the workplace right and so I often take
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leaps of faith and like really being like all right really leaning into this research and see if it works and more
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often than not like I do actually find that people um want to learn about me and my
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background but I were able also able to take respect like certain boundaries and
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not kind of push further than I might be comfortable so Rachel to to close this out
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to be a better workplace and to have a positive impact beyond the workplace this idea of
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bringing your genuine self to work is a good thing and workplaces should embrace it and find safe spaces or
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establish protocols for this to happen I would I would say I agree with most of that I'll just I'll just add caveats and
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just say you know I think Rich cultural dance Russian is one way to be yourself at work
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um to be a genuine self at work and that can be kind of consistent with both a desire for authenticity and a desire for
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a professional success um and so I think that's something that I want people to take away that's an
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opportunity and creating safe spaces that enable that showing engagement people do it and
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really just taking a listening and learning approach and not a judgmental approach when people open up I think
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those are the key takeaways and old school guys like me uh we we should think about
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you don't have to just please the employer and do exactly what you think the box is that allows you to be
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successful that opening up can have can have a positive positive impact yeah I know you can take the leap can I believe
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in you okay at this point it might be too late for me I I don't know but any
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final final guidance for for us all in this as we move forward with you know as as it was as discussed with Dan before
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we got going this this idea of companies do seem to be embracing or contemplating
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these issues more anything else that corporate leaders should take away in terms of this topic
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I would just say that the more you can sort of set can show people that this is welcome but also take away some of the
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barriers or potential for stigma that people might be afraid of you know some of this is Rich culture and expression
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is not as bad as you think but there are things that leaders can do you know when
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people open up about kind of problematic experiences they've had with discrimination for example actually
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showing that you care showing that you believe people when they open up so that you're willing to support I think that
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goes a long way as well to encouraging people to open up in these ways on future occasions
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Rachel Arnett thank you very much in for fulfilling my my need to better understand Rich cultural identity and to
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get over my deeply embedded fear that was placed upon me by a junior high school gym coach Horace consolo
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take care thanks so much for having me thank you for listening to the ripple effect we hope you found this episode
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informative and engaging don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review so that
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we can continue to bring you the best Insight from the Wharton School