00:00:00
So something like if you missed out on a
00:00:02
concert that your friends were going to
00:00:05
and they were going to have that great
00:00:06
experience but you were not going to
00:00:07
have it,
00:00:08
>> right? And that's what over the years we
00:00:10
started saying that's where FOMO is
00:00:12
different than regret. You might regret
00:00:14
missing the concert, right?
00:00:15
>> But you feel FOMO if your friends went
00:00:18
to the concert and you didn't. And so
00:00:20
that's what we were really trying to
00:00:21
tease apart. What does that FOMO mean?
00:00:24
What is it that you're missing? And what
00:00:26
we thought it was is you were missing
00:00:28
being there with your friends. So you
00:00:31
were missing part of the social history
00:00:33
that was being developed around your
00:00:35
friend group.
00:00:36
>> Welcome to the Ripple Effect, the
00:00:38
podcast that takes you on a journey
00:00:40
through the minds of Wharton faculty.
00:00:42
I'm your host Dan Looney and in each
00:00:44
episode we'll be diving deep into the
00:00:46
inspiration behind the groundbreaking
00:00:48
research that Wharton professors have
00:00:50
conducted and exploring how their
00:00:52
findings resonate with the world today.
00:00:56
The term FOMO or fear of missing out is
00:00:59
one that's used quite a bit these days.
00:01:01
It obviously has real world
00:01:02
implications, but social media has
00:01:05
allowed it to become more a part of our
00:01:07
everyday vernacular. As for that real
00:01:10
world, there are some important things
00:01:12
to understand about FOMO when you talk
00:01:14
about it from a business perspective.
00:01:16
The Wharton School's Barbara Khan is
00:01:18
part of a group of researchers looking
00:01:20
at a better understanding of FOMO and
00:01:22
for what reasons. Barbara is a marketing
00:01:24
professor here at the Wharton School as
00:01:26
well as co-host of Marketing Matters on
00:01:28
the Wharton podcast network. Barbara,
00:01:30
great to see you again.
00:01:31
>> Yeah, it's great to be here.
00:01:32
>> All right, so take us through this
00:01:34
research because I I mean everybody now
00:01:36
knows the term, but you look at it from
00:01:38
a very unique perspective in this
00:01:40
research.
00:01:40
>> Well, you know, it's funny that you
00:01:42
should say everybody knows the term
00:01:43
because we started this research long,
00:01:45
long time ago. It took us a while to get
00:01:48
it published, but when we started,
00:01:51
people didn't actually know the word.
00:01:52
Okay. Um, it we didn't make the word up.
00:01:55
It existed, but a lot of people didn't
00:01:57
exactly know what FOMO was. And we were
00:01:59
finding ourselves telling people fear of
00:02:01
missing out, like what the letter stood
00:02:03
for. So, we started doing descriptive
00:02:06
research on it. And we wanted actually
00:02:08
to be the first one to publish anything
00:02:09
on FOMO. So, we'd get like all the
00:02:11
citations coming to us, but as luck
00:02:14
would have it, we just couldn't get
00:02:15
through the publication process. And so
00:02:18
over over time now, like I seriously
00:02:22
think it's been 10 years we've been
00:02:23
working on it. By the time we finally
00:02:26
publish it, it is true that a lot of
00:02:28
people know what FOMO means now. And so
00:02:31
what we found ourselves doing is
00:02:33
defining a specific type of FOMO so that
00:02:36
we could get a publication. So like a
00:02:38
lot of it was this academic we really
00:02:40
need to do something new. Yeah. And so
00:02:42
people use FOMO to mean a whole lot of
00:02:44
different things now. And we wanted to
00:02:47
specifically differentiate between FOMO
00:02:51
and the idea of regret. So some people I
00:02:53
think use the word FOMO, but they just
00:02:56
regret not being there.
00:02:58
>> Sure.
00:02:58
>> And we wanted to define our FOMO as
00:03:01
specifically not regret um and as
00:03:05
specifically having to do with social
00:03:06
media. So social media exacerbates it.
00:03:10
And we also found from all our work over
00:03:12
the 10 years that FOMO tended to be used
00:03:16
more when it had to do with social
00:03:19
groups, right, than when it had to do
00:03:21
with just missing an event, per se. So
00:03:23
what you were feeling FOMO was about
00:03:27
something that you missed that your
00:03:29
friends were doing that you weren't part
00:03:30
of, right? And what we found is that's
00:03:32
what people really meant when they were
00:03:34
saying FOMO and that's how it
00:03:35
differentiated from regret. So something
00:03:38
like if you missed out on a concert that
00:03:40
your friends were going to and they were
00:03:42
going to have that great experience but
00:03:44
you were not going to have it,
00:03:45
>> right? And that's what over the years we
00:03:47
started saying that's where FOMO is
00:03:49
different than regret. You might regret
00:03:51
missing the concert, right?
00:03:52
>> But you feel FOMO if your friends went
00:03:55
to the concert and you didn't. And so
00:03:57
that's what we were really trying to
00:03:58
tease apart. What does that FOMO mean?
00:04:01
What is it that you're missing? And what
00:04:03
we thought it was is you were missing
00:04:05
being there with your friends, right? So
00:04:08
you were missing part of the social
00:04:10
history that was being developed around
00:04:12
your friend group.
00:04:13
>> And I'm guessing the component of social
00:04:15
media then comes in when those friends
00:04:17
are maybe posting pictures or posting
00:04:19
videos from the event that you miss out
00:04:22
on. You see it and it just kind of it
00:04:24
doubles the the angst that you feel.
00:04:26
>> Right. So that's what ended up being
00:04:28
what we started to study. It was
00:04:30
something it's not just missing an
00:04:32
event. It's missing specifically an
00:04:34
event that your friends have that you're
00:04:36
not at and it becomes exacerbated
00:04:39
because you're seeing all these pictures
00:04:40
and you're imagining what went on that
00:04:43
you weren't a part of.
00:04:44
>> So there's an element of that you're
00:04:46
looking at specifically kind of at the
00:04:48
psychology behind a lot of this,
00:04:49
>> right? And so just before I get to the
00:04:52
business implications of it, it took us
00:04:54
forever to publish this. So we're not on
00:04:55
publishing on business yet, but we have
00:04:58
thought about it and we have run a bunch
00:05:00
of studies on it. But there was a couple
00:05:02
things that was interesting about this.
00:05:04
So the first thing is it's not about the
00:05:07
event. So you can feel FOMO even for a
00:05:10
negative event, right?
00:05:11
>> Um so like you could your friends might
00:05:13
go to a funeral and you regret not being
00:05:16
there because your friends were bonding
00:05:18
over things that happened at the
00:05:20
funeral. So it's it's not the event per
00:05:22
se, it's the bonding. The other thing
00:05:24
that we discovered the more we did
00:05:26
research on it was that it's not really
00:05:28
a fear. It's more like an anxiety. And
00:05:32
the difference is is an anxiety is kind
00:05:34
of cognitive. It's the way you think
00:05:36
about it. So you're imagining what
00:05:39
you're missing out and it may be you're
00:05:42
not maybe missing out on that much. It's
00:05:45
just that you think you're missing out
00:05:46
on it. And that was also kind of an
00:05:49
interesting thing. So when we were doing
00:05:50
the research, I remember the thing that
00:05:52
motivated me to do it is one of my
00:05:55
daughter's friends was talking about how
00:05:57
she wanted to go to the shore with my
00:05:59
daughter and her friends. And
00:06:01
unfortunately, she had to go to this
00:06:03
beautiful wedding and this gorgeous
00:06:04
place and she was going to miss out on
00:06:06
it. And it was that was my thought like
00:06:08
that's crazy. You're going to a
00:06:10
beautiful place. You can go to the shore
00:06:11
anytime you want. Why are you so worried
00:06:13
about it? And the more you probe, it was
00:06:15
because she was worried about her
00:06:18
friends having fun or making, you know,
00:06:21
social stories that she wasn't going to
00:06:22
be part of.
00:06:23
>> So part of the research I mentioned did
00:06:25
kind of play into the impact of being at
00:06:28
an event like a concert. You also have
00:06:29
part of this research that looks at, you
00:06:32
know, kind of being or not being at a
00:06:33
retreat.
00:06:34
>> Yeah. Yeah. So it could be it doesn't
00:06:36
really the point is if you're not
00:06:38
looking at the regret of missing the
00:06:40
event it could be a negative event it
00:06:42
could be a positive event it could be
00:06:43
anything it could be a business event
00:06:45
and then what we manipulated in that
00:06:47
case is what was happening at the
00:06:49
retreat like if there were things you
00:06:51
were going to retreat and you were
00:06:52
self-improving and working on yourself
00:06:54
and you know everything was independent
00:06:56
you're not going to feel as much FOMO as
00:06:58
if you were going to a retreat or you
00:07:01
missed out on a retreat that your
00:07:02
friends went to and the point of it was
00:07:05
to develop connections and social
00:07:06
interactions. Right?
00:07:08
>> So, the two things that would make you
00:07:09
ex experience the FOMO at something like
00:07:12
a retreat, the retreat doesn't matter,
00:07:13
right? Because it's not the event, is
00:07:15
that your friends went, not a group of
00:07:17
strangers. And that what they were doing
00:07:19
was talking to each other and perhaps
00:07:21
finding new things out, telling stories,
00:07:23
making new things up that you weren't
00:07:25
part of. Is there an element then of
00:07:27
FOMO that as you said it can be kind of
00:07:30
a negative event where you know you
00:07:32
didn't really want to go to it anyway
00:07:34
and maybe your friends didn't want to go
00:07:36
to it but they still went to it and you
00:07:38
did not
00:07:38
>> right then you might feel FOMO like yeah
00:07:40
so now you're going a whole lot of like
00:07:42
crazy stuff and the thing about it is we
00:07:45
ran a bunch of experiments to talk about
00:07:47
you know like what if your friend missed
00:07:49
the event what if it wasn't you that
00:07:51
missed the event what was your if your
00:07:52
friend missed it do you think they'd be
00:07:54
missing out on a lot the stuff and then
00:07:56
you have the wherewithal to say, "Nah,
00:07:58
probably not. It's just one event.
00:08:00
Probably not that much happened. You're
00:08:01
still part of the friend group."
00:08:02
>> Yeah.
00:08:03
>> But when it comes to you missing it out,
00:08:06
now you imagine, oh yes, a lot more
00:08:08
happened.
00:08:09
>> What's amazing is, and we've just gone
00:08:11
through it here in the first few
00:08:11
minutes, but there are so many different
00:08:13
potential scenarios that could play out
00:08:16
where these elements of FOMO could be
00:08:18
in. I mean, you've even mentioned in the
00:08:20
research that it doesn't necessarily
00:08:22
have to be a friends group, but it could
00:08:24
be like like-minded individuals, people
00:08:26
who are fans of a country music artist
00:08:28
or a rock star or whoever it might be.
00:08:30
>> And they're not you're not friends with
00:08:33
them, but you're all fans of that
00:08:35
person.
00:08:35
>> And that's where we're going to go to
00:08:37
when we get to the business
00:08:39
applications. So, a lot of what's
00:08:40
happening with brands now are they're
00:08:42
creating brand identities, brand
00:08:44
community, and a lot of is experiential.
00:08:47
So it's not just buying the branded
00:08:49
product, it's being part of the branded
00:08:51
experience. And so our hypothesis is
00:08:54
what you're kind of suggesting is that
00:08:56
if you feel like you're part of a
00:08:58
branded community and then you miss out
00:09:01
on some events, maybe you don't feel
00:09:03
like your membership in that community
00:09:05
is as strong as it would be if you had
00:09:08
gone. And that's the FOMO you might end
00:09:10
up feeling.
00:09:11
>> So how then do businesses think about
00:09:13
FOMO? and how much do they think about
00:09:15
it from the psychological avenue that
00:09:18
we've just been kind of laying out here?
00:09:20
>> Yeah, you know, I haven't we haven't
00:09:22
finished all that research. You know,
00:09:23
first we just wanted to establish that
00:09:25
there was some FOMO in a branded
00:09:27
community and that's it's kind of hard
00:09:28
to get. You have to control all these
00:09:30
things. And we were doing it around
00:09:32
there was used to be a Lululemon store
00:09:34
here near campus and we were doing it
00:09:36
around Lululemon had gym classes and
00:09:38
things in the store. And so we were
00:09:41
using that as part of the Lulu community
00:09:43
to kind of manipulate and it was hard.
00:09:45
You had to run the gym class. You had
00:09:47
people in and out. You had to control
00:09:48
all this. So we were still just trying
00:09:50
to find whether or not those things that
00:09:54
people felt that. And then we were
00:09:56
trying to determine, well, should the
00:09:58
brand encourage it or not encourage it?
00:10:01
Like maybe feeling that FOMO is good
00:10:03
because it makes you not want to miss
00:10:05
the next event,
00:10:07
>> but maybe it's bad because it makes you
00:10:09
over time feel disengaged from the
00:10:11
community, right?
00:10:12
>> So like we weren't quite sure, we
00:10:13
haven't done that study yet to figure
00:10:15
out how is the FOMO going to work. Can
00:10:18
we play on it in a good way or is it a
00:10:21
bad thing? Is it surprising then to see
00:10:24
the idea of FOMO play out in so many
00:10:27
different avenues? I mean, it it it just
00:10:30
seems like it can go in so many
00:10:32
different directions.
00:10:33
>> Well, like I said, we've been doing this
00:10:34
for a long time and over the years,
00:10:36
people have taken the term and meant it
00:10:38
used it to mean a lot of different
00:10:39
things. And we came back and really
00:10:41
really tightly identified it as this
00:10:44
kind of thing now. And so whether or not
00:10:46
when you say FOMO today, you may not
00:10:49
mean exactly what I'm saying it means
00:10:50
now. You could mean regret or you can
00:10:52
mean these other things. In fact, you're
00:10:54
even seeing people now talk about JOMO,
00:10:57
you know, the joy of missing out. Like I
00:10:59
don't want to be everything. Yeah. So
00:11:02
like you can see it flip like it's, you
00:11:04
know, it's just crazy to worry about it
00:11:05
all the time. And it's it's, you know,
00:11:07
attach it's attached to this whole idea
00:11:09
of social media. Yeah. that like you're
00:11:11
looking at everything and so you're all
00:11:13
these things you're missing, all these
00:11:15
feelings you're missing. Maybe it's
00:11:16
better if you just don't look at it.
00:11:18
>> And there are avenues where people
00:11:20
think, okay, social media is such a
00:11:22
great thing of being able to provide us
00:11:24
this information, but there is the
00:11:27
potential of the negative as well.
00:11:28
>> Yeah. So that's kind of so when we start
00:11:30
playing with this and the brand
00:11:32
implications, it's is it a good idea to
00:11:34
show on the website, you know, other
00:11:37
people doing things that that might
00:11:39
encourage your feelings of FOMO or
00:11:41
should you show the activity, show the
00:11:43
product? Like you can kind of think
00:11:45
there's a lot of different things that
00:11:47
people might take away when they see an
00:11:49
event they missed, right? And I guess
00:11:51
what we're showing is we're parsing out
00:11:53
some of these different things. and a
00:11:55
firm can think about that as either
00:11:57
positive or negative to encourage those
00:11:59
feelings and thoughts.
00:12:00
>> But the challenge though isn't it partly
00:12:02
because one person's feeling about a a
00:12:08
you know specific scenario playing out
00:12:10
would be different from many other
00:12:11
people how they feel about it. And so
00:12:13
the company the the firm that works with
00:12:15
it really has to be nimble to be able to
00:12:18
deal with all kinds of different
00:12:19
reactions.
00:12:20
>> Yeah. So we purposely stayed away from
00:12:22
those kind of things. There has been a
00:12:24
lot of work in the FOMO over these 10
00:12:26
years other people publish and what
00:12:28
you're talking about is individual
00:12:29
differences. Yeah. And so we have a
00:12:32
little bit of that is people who are
00:12:34
more anxious about their social activity
00:12:37
feel more FOMO than people who aren't.
00:12:39
So that's an individual difference. But
00:12:41
we were trying not to focus on
00:12:43
individual differences. Trying to focus
00:12:45
on main events that people would feel
00:12:48
FOMO about or not. And some of the
00:12:50
things that we were identifying is it
00:12:52
has to be part of a social group you
00:12:54
care about. Yeah. And so our extension
00:12:56
to business is will those feelings be as
00:12:59
intense if it's a brand community? You
00:13:02
know, if it's a brand you feel about and
00:13:04
you might argue yes and no, you don't
00:13:06
know. And then um the other thing we
00:13:09
were thinking about it is it's an
00:13:11
anxiety. It's a little bit imagined.
00:13:13
It's not actually true, you know. So
00:13:15
people just see this stuff and then they
00:13:17
start to spiral out and make, you know,
00:13:20
make assumptions about it. So like
00:13:22
that's another thing brands can either
00:13:24
try to tamper down or they can try to
00:13:27
encourage it if they think the FOMO is
00:13:29
good. Like you might imagine if if the
00:13:31
brand thinks feeling a little FOMO,
00:13:33
that's good. You won't miss our next
00:13:35
event.
00:13:35
>> Right. Right.
00:13:37
>> What then do you think or how do you
00:13:39
think you want to then take this
00:13:41
research into that next realm focusing
00:13:43
on business? Where do you think you you
00:13:45
hope that it'll take you?
00:13:47
>> Well, I mean, the first thing we have to
00:13:48
establish is the, you know, those ground
00:13:50
rules. We have to we have to establish.
00:13:53
Do people when they're part of a brand
00:13:56
community feel the same sense of FOMO
00:13:59
when they miss out on a branded event?
00:14:01
Like that we haven't proved yet. We have
00:14:03
some preliminary evidence that shows
00:14:05
that they do, but it also it depends on
00:14:07
whether it's a small brand or a big
00:14:09
brand. Like it it's not true for all
00:14:11
brands. So that's kind of an interesting
00:14:14
idea if we're moving towards in retail
00:14:16
this idea of more customer experiences
00:14:18
and things like that. When you miss a
00:14:20
customer experience, does that make you
00:14:23
want to go to it more the next time or
00:14:26
does it make you feel disengaged and
00:14:28
less and less part of the community
00:14:30
because they're telling brand narratives
00:14:32
that you're not part of? Right.
00:14:34
>> That's kind of where we're thinking it
00:14:36
might go. And you could certainly think
00:14:38
it might it might depend on the type of
00:14:40
brand, your relationship with the brand,
00:14:42
um the type of people who are at the
00:14:45
brand. Yeah.
00:14:46
>> You know, and it's and I want it to be
00:14:47
different than just regret. Like for
00:14:49
example, if there's a branded community
00:14:52
event and some big celebrities there,
00:14:54
Taylor Swift is there, you would
00:14:56
definitely feel regret, you know, but
00:14:58
you might not feel what we're calling
00:15:00
FOMO,
00:15:01
>> you know, and so we want to make that
00:15:03
distinction, too. Um, and it because the
00:15:06
FOMO is more about the social connection
00:15:08
you feel to the group that surrounds the
00:15:11
[music] brand,
00:15:11
>> right, Barbara, great to see you again.
00:15:13
Thanks very much.
00:15:13
>> Yeah, thank you.
00:15:14
>> Barbara Khan, marketing professor here
00:15:16
at the Wharton School and co-host of the
00:15:18
Marketing Matters podcast. Thank you for
00:15:21
listening to The Ripple Effect. We hope
00:15:23
you found this episode informative and
00:15:25
engaging. Don't forget to subscribe and
00:15:27
leave us a review so that we can
00:15:29
continue to bring you the best insight
00:15:31
from the Wharton School.
