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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
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network, our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising, marketing, customer behavior, retailing,
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new product launches, branding. I'm Barbara Khan, the Patty and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined
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by my co-host, Americus Reed, the Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of Marketing and the brand identity
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theorist. Hello, Americus. >> Hi, Barbara. Barbara Khan, you are the wizard of the seventh floor. I have a
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question for you. >> Are you ready? >> Yeah. >> Okay. What do the K-pop demon hunters,
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Wednesday Adams, Alaba and Glenda, the Chicken Jockey, and Laboo have in common?
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>> I am guessing that they are trendy Halloween costumes. Are they? >> You are 100% correct. Then of course you
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know what I'm going to ask you because you are the wizard of the seventh floor.
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So what have we got that could possibly plug me in to the latest and greatest knowledge of Halloween commerce in the
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world? >> We have Mr. Halloween himself. >> Yes. >> Stephen Silverstein who's the CEO of
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Spencer Spirit Holdings. Well, and what's particularly relevant today is spirit, which is popping up all over
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everybody's cities everywhere. Amazingly, they just appear um because it's the witching hour. We're just days
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before Halloween. So, Stephen, we are so happy every year to have you come back and tell us the greatest, best news
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about Halloween, what's in, what's out, how we can win this holiday. Welcome to
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the show. Well, >> I'm happy to be here. >> One of the things I've noticed, like
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every year when I walk around in Philly and look at the Halloween decorations, it just seems to me, and you'll have the
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numbers to tell whether this is true or not, because this is just anecdotal, that people are getting into Halloween
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more and more and more every year. It's kind of like, you know, when it used to
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be Christmas shopping used to start in July. Now, like it seems like Halloween decorations start in September and
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people start planning their p parties and all and and I imagine even before Halloween itself, people are wearing
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costumes to parties and things like that. So, is it that Halloween has become a month-long holiday? Well, you
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know, look, it definitely is uh taking much deeper roots in into across many different demographics. And so it really
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is sort of this universal experience that everybody seems to be looking for. And it seems to happen at just the right
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time. Uh you know, you have that opportunity, the the leaves are turning, it's a little crispy, and boy, Halloween
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is is on everybody's mind uh right now. And uh you know I think about people
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participating in it. You talk about decorating but parties, parades, trunk or treats, uh lots of different uh you
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know varieties and and that's what makes it so f so much fun is you know you can
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do it a little you can do it a lot. Uh and there are no gifts involved. So it's
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uh that's >> yeah that's a good let me you know like just about the timing. So, I know and
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we've had you on the show before, but I can't guarantee that every year people
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listen. The same people listen. So, they may not understand your business model,
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which is these stores pop up. Yeah. >> You're just at the right time and
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they're always in a different place even though you come back to Philly all the
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time and you have more than one and they're just never in the same place. And so, like in thinking about when the
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holiday starts and when you start planning, when do your stores open? Um, and and is that the same date? And how
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do you do all of that? Do they open like fully? Do you like gear up? Like how does that all work?
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>> Is that just one question? [laughter] >> Yes. Uh, yes. Start with uh question
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number Yes. 4 A subp part C. Uh, well, let let's start with the fact that we're
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247 365 Halloween. So, I've we've got about 500 people that are full year-
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round uh employees of of Spirit Halloween. And it is more than a year- round process. Uh you can't do what we
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do just by popping up. It's not just a good idea. It's something that's got to
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be uh uh planned uh at a great detail level and engineered right down to, you know, sort of the minute. Um but as far
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as the question you're asking, so uh the stores physically begin opening uh the
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beginning of August. Uh and this year we'll have 1546. We have 1546 locations
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across the United States and Canada. >> Um and the opening process takes uh to
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get to that number. You know, we're staging through that. Uh we get them all
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open pretty much by the middle of September. So, it's pretty much a six- week process to get all those locations
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open. But, um, but it is definitely a year- round process to be hiring, to be buying, to be planning, to be uh
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merchandising, etc. Um, and so we open August 1st. Uh, generally speaking, that is our grand opening. This year was a
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little different because of some of the challenges we had with supply chain. Um,
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but we intend to open on on August 1st and we close uh November 1st or 2nd. Wow, that's incredible. I just want to
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jump in really quickly, Barbara, because I want to build on your point. You you were asking a very important tactical
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question here. I also want to step back, Stephen, because today in my class, I was speaking on startups and pop-up
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stores as a as a mechanism to help build the brand. And I was mentioning you and
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the OG, Stephen, >> you are the original guy. You are the OG of the popup stores. And so t build on
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Barbara's point about all over all of these years as an institutional knowledge that you have been building
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and acrewing and how that is like leading you to being more and more efficient doing this over time. That's
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an that's a hu that must be a huge advantage that is almost impossible to copy. Speak a little bit on that.
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>> Yeah, I mean so I personally have been do working with this team for over 20
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years. Um, and I've been in retail for longer than that and and around retail
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for a long time. And I I'll tell you, you're honor, a very significant aspect
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of how we've gotten to where we are is this constant uh uh challenge to improve
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and and re-engineer and rewrite the scripts. Um, the beauty of this as a retailer is every year we get to start
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over. >> Um, and so you know that >> I guess that's a beauty. [laughter]
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Well, it that's the challenge, but it is the beauty because we have the ability
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to, you know, sort of incrementally every year add new levels of uh of performance and, you know, sort of learn
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from what we have done in the past and where we where the opportunities are. And you know, I was just on the phone
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today with my partner talking about this past weekend, our biggest weekend, what
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some of our the observations were and where the opportunities are. And I was very excited because, you know, I was
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listing 12 or 15 different things that boy, we could really uh we could really improve upon because it all happens so
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fast that you can't really you you can't really make those adjustments while
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we're in the game. But a post uh the post script really starts to be uh you know when we're working on next year and
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the year after that. And you know, you we joked about AI a little bit, but we're very excited about h the
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possibilities that AI will uh bring to improve our performance because part of this you know 1546 locations opening up
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is really the ability to to sort of see at a detailed level um you know kind of where we might be going off script or
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where we might be going off the rails because there's a lot of things happening all at once. Um, and we need
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to be able to get and when we can uh visualize those details, we will actually significantly improve our
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>> overall. So, let me ask you a couple question. There's so many things I want
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to ask you, but let me just start with one. Let's start with the AI thing. One
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of the things people say about AI is that it helps you micro segment more. Um, how different are your stores in all
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these I mean, you have all these stores. It's all happening at once. Can you use
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AI to like maybe in in California they like, you know, Gavin Newsome costumes and in
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>> [laughter] >> uh who knows, you know? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, I I'm not thinking about
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that so much right now because, you know, to get to the product side, that's
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even a higher level of sophistication that I'm talking about. I'm talking
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about if you think about this this store opening process, >> we really engineer each day the number
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that the steps you take each day that lead to the next day and the next day and the number of people and the hours
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and what should be accomplished. And so it's really going through that microscope of the process and are the
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are these stores on track? Are they keeping up? >> All the stores must be different too. I
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mean >> well they're different sizes and shapes. So that's one of the things that's a
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that's a a variation. But that but you know you've got you've just got a lot of
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activity that you are and in many cases you know you say we're in different places every year. Actually about 35% of
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the time we're in the same location. And when I say the same location I know it
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won't feel like you because the truth is what I call the same location. You wouldn't. If I'm in the same strip
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center I call that the same location. That's >> that may be cheating a little bit, but
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it's at least we're in approximately the same the same location. But no, we close
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every single store and we reopen it. So every year there's got to be an ability
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to, you know, sort of reorient and re recover it. But the other side of this is we're trying to make it very very
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simple, straightforward process. You know, you just keep it absolutely uh, you know, as much cookie cutter as
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we possibly can. And I know that doesn't sound great, but to do this 1550 times,
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it really helps. >> Right. >> Well, you know, I want to build on something else. You said you've been in
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retail forever, you know, and you started like at Bloomingdales and Macy's and in real traditional retail. Um and
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then I guess the biggest one was when you were on linens and um what linen what's it called?
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>> Linens and things. >> Linens and things. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like is that still around? Is that
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>> No. >> No. Yeah. So anyway, but so like I I I've heard you say this that you believe
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and as much as you can probably buy these costumes online on Amazon, I imagine, but you believe in the value of
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the physical store. And what you're talking about is like >> really digging into the value of this
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physical store if you're going into all of this effort to get them all up. >> There there's no question.
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No, you can't buy these costumes online because we're almost call it 100% vertical. We're not, but we
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have most of what we do we make and source and design and direct. So, yeah, you can buy them from me online or buy
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them from Spirit online, but uh it's not there's not a big marketplace for the
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things that we're doing. Um, and you know, sort of particularly now as we get
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into the last week and you say, you know, this is the triple witching hour. Well, you know, you got that party and
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you got to have that costume. Are you really going to trust it? Uh, is it going to get there on time? And so, we
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really go right up to the very end. And if you go into our stores this Thursday and Friday, I guarantee you there will
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be a line from the from the front to the back. But the other part of it is not just about the last minute shopping. I
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make a very big distinction from my own experience that walking into a Spirit Halloween store is it is in of itself a
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Halloween experience. It's immersive. It's appealing to your five senses. Um
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it's it puts you into a Halloween mood. It gives you all kinds of ideas. It's a
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social experience. It's a human experience. You take your selfies. You try you try on the mask. It's a it's
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it's a joy. And you know, so it's I I kind of say you can buy online, but you
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shop in a store. And shopping in a Halloween store in particular is a whole heck of a lot of fun.
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>> Yeah. Let me jump in on build on Barbara's point, too, because Barbara is
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one of the gurus of customer experience. She talks about this all. She preaches about this, okay? She's like a
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[laughter] she's in the pulpit preaching about this. And what I love about what
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you do and talk on this, Stephen, because there's a human there's a there's a HR issue here that's so
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critical for the stores, right? If it's going to be an immersive experience, you
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got to walk in and the people that are representing, the people that are the stewards of spirit, they got to be in
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alignment with all of the things that create the organizational culture that you have sort of built. And so talk
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about how to make sure that when an Americas and Barber walk into the store, the people who greet them are in
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alignment with the experience that you're trying to portray for us. Yeah, it's a a huge point 100%. Uh it's a
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joyful experience and that joy is infectious. uh and people generally who are working in that store um are in some
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way really connected to to Halloween and spec specifically to Spirit Halloween and what we do. Um and I'll just mention
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one thing that really I think represents our heart and I think is representative
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of what why Spirit Halloween is sort of a a different experience, a different brand. Um we've been working since 2006
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on a program that we call Spirit of Children. Um and what we've what we do through through our people and the
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reason this is successful is because our front line really believe in the importance of spirit of children. Spirit
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of children for spirit of children we um take donations on behalf of local uh children's hospital specifically the
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child life department. So, in Philadelphia, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, CHOP, um we've raised over
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$1 million through this this program that goes directly to the hospital. >> Um and not only that, but we throw a
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Halloween party in the hospital itself. We bring costumes and art projects and and music. And it's it's not it's this
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is what I call our heart because they know that their work is really giving something back to the communities that
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they're in. Um and many many people talk about that connection as one of the
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things that really makes them feel good about working for Spirit Halloween. Um and to date we've raised over $150
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million for 160 hospitals since the the since the program started. This year we'll
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raise close to $20 million. We're donating at least $100,000 to each of our our partner hospitals and and it's
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because of the people on the front line. It is not there's nothing self- serving
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involved. This is absolutely because these people and if you go into the store and I hope you do um they every
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time we get a donation we ring a cowbell. Uh I can tell you that story a long way ago but they but that bell
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should be ringing. Um, and it's just an indication of the it's the period on the
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end of the sentence. You've had a great experience in the store. You come in and
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can would you would you would you you know sort of support the children in the hospital in your community and we do
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that all on grassroots. That's all done internally. It's all done by our people.
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So I think that's representative of immense >> Yeah, that's amazing. You know, talking
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about the the labor issue for any retail, that's a huge issue. you have so much turnover in instore employees. It's
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a really hard thing to manage. And here you have this thing where the stores open and close. But given that that
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happens, I think you said in past years that you have people who come back >> um to your stores,
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>> loyalists all the time. You know, we hire 50,000 people for this for this
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endeavor. Um and you know the D the DM level uh that's the district store manager that we they manage three stores
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or so. >> Um we have over 400 and change 400 people there. Uh >> 70 plus percent of those come back to us
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every year. >> Wow. >> And I think you know sort of it's indicative of where their heads are at.
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We're kind of a part of the gig economy. You mentioned Christmas. you know, people come to work for us, they get
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Christmas money without having to work for Christmas. And [clears throat] it's
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just a, you know, it's a combination of a lot of factors, but yes, people come
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back to us year after year, >> which is amazing given that it's hard in
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retail in general, and you're making it even harder by uh making it all. But
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you're mentioning Christmas, so we got to say, you mentioned this that you've
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done it, you you were doing it before. This isn't the first year you thought
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about it, but you said you've been asked a million times, why don't you just do
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another holiday and you were going to you've dug into Christmas, right? So, >> yeah. What's the story there,
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>> Julie? What Yeah. What's happening? >> Yeah. I like to say if I had a nickel
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for every time somebody asked me that question, I have a whole bunch of nickels. Um, [laughter]
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>> so five million nickels is still a lot of money, right? >> Yeah. [laughter]
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>> Yeah. So, so yes, uh what's really different now, first of all, Christmas
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is a very different different uh uh competitive environment, right? It's, you know, we don't just by magic deserve
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to be in the Christmas business. We I always feel like if you're going to bring a something to the uh you know, to
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the competitive world, you got to have a reason. And what's the reason that the
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guest can articulate as to why are you there? Um, and so what kind of took us so long is we we couldn't really answer
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that question. >> I just want to say one thing. What you're saying is Christmas is a way more
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competitive market than the Halloween market. Is that what you're saying? Okay. I just want to make sure way more
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you know because look there's a lot of really good good people and who make a
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pretty big commitment to to Christmas from you know the mass%. >> So you got to bring something. We got we
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got to bring something. And and we couldn't really answer that question. what was our value proposition? And so,
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you know, but the landscape has changed and the landscape of Christmas, particularly what we call the curated
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specialty Christmas market. We had people like uh Pier One or you had even Bed Bath and Beyond, you know, who was
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who were there, you know, sort of in the mid to better market, uh not in the commodity world, uh you know, to me. So,
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what we came up with was we're sugar and spice and everything nice and emphasis
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on the spice. Uh, what I mean by that is we want we want it to be a fun store. Uh, just like we talk about Halloween,
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fun is so much fun it's scary. Uh, Christmas has got to be so much fun it's
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merry. And so that's [laughter] where we are going with it. >> And uh, so but very much testing this.
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We don't you walk in and you know we don't have the the uh uh the ego or the
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arrogance to believe that we're just gonna you know [clears throat] storm this and not really earn it. Um so we
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have 30 we had eight locations last year. We have 30 locations this year mainly in the northeast but as far west
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as Chicago. Um and uh you know we are we're going to learn uh and understand
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how we can you know sort of u bring something that'll be meaningful to uh this event as well.
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>> So what are you selling? Is it decor it is it Christmas gifts decoration?
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>> It's it's a combination again a curated assortment. So there specialty we're
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trying to bring something special and it's it's fun. Uh we have a couple of
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categories that we're really digging into. Decor being one of them. >> Um uh uh but also based on our sort of
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Spencer roots. Um we have a lot of wearables and fun family attire. Everything from sleepwear and loungewear
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to uh outrageous sweaters. That's where a lot of the spice >> of course but they are over the top. I
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mean you go in there I I guarantee it's over the top. There's sound. They're
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ugly. They're outrageous, but they also have sound and lights. They're going to
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be audacious. Yeah. >> Oh, that makes so much sense. And that differentiates you. And when we do
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Christmas morning, my kids have to get into these ugly pajamas. So, it's not
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just ugly sweaters. It's all Instagram has asked you to be I don't know who
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started this crazy thing, but it does seem to be a thing. >> Yes. That's interesting. But so, so
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Stephen, because this is Barbara's making a very important point here, which is and I I want to pull this back
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into our world. Barbara, which is the world of brand extension. >> Yeah. >> Right. And sort of thinking through like
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what do we have a permission structure to actually go do based on the equity. I love what Barbara's pointing out.
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>> Custom costume. >> Yeah. That and the fact that you're pulling in a little bit of the Spencer's
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DNA in there that the fun, you know, speak on that because you you obviously you went from 8 to 30. That's like 4x.
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So you you learned something. So >> do people know Spirit and Spencer are connected? Do they know that?
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>> No, they don't. and and in fact it it doesn't matter because these Spencers.
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So yes, Americas, you're right on on target here. I kind of say in the background this is if Spencers and
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Spirit had a baby, they had Spirit Christmas. >> So and and when you said talk about
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brand extension, that's a really very very good point. Even the times before
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where we had tried a a sort of posth Halloween um uh strategy, we never were willing to put the spirit name on it
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because we weren't going to attach that until we really had felt we had a concept that could be related to
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Halloween. Absolutely. >> We're never going to put that that brand is is, you know, platinum plus and we're
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never going to do anything to really we don't want to disappoint. We don't want
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people coming in there like thinking that we're just being opportunistic or that, you know, we're just mailing it
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in. >> Absolutely. That's your mean. Yeah. >> Yeah. And that's, you know, to your
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point, Barbara, why would someone come to a store? Because we make it worth their while because it's a it's a form,
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it's a destination form of use of time, entertainment, immersive, etc. And so
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all of that is part of the the Christmas execution as well. >> So So where's the Spencer piece of it?
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So like that's like the wing. >> So the Spencer's is is to America's
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point, you know, where we we emphasize the humor, you know, it's sort of finding the humor in some of the, as I
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say, some of the spice that's in the sugar and spice. And so Spencer's, you
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know, Spencer's is has that pop culture kind of DNA that that we share with uh
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that we share with Spirit. >> Yeah, we all have >> when he was going down to all the way
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down to Laboo, you know, now you're really getting the heart of pop culture.
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We all have our Spencer stories from high school. [laughter] All of us, man. That's an awesome
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awesome brand. [laughter] >> We We will keep them to ourselves. >> We will. I'm going to my grave with my
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secret. >> You closed Spirit Halloween on November 1st or 2nd. And when And is it now is it
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called Spirit Christmas? Is it in the same store? >> And then is it like one day or a week or
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how? Uh we will be open by uh the following Friday. >> So that's when So that's the 6th.
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>> Um we actually, if you want, in all in all honesty, we actually have five open
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right now. Um because we we wanted to get a jump on the uh on the schedule a little bit.
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>> So we have a couple five that are open. Um and we'll open 25 by Friday, November
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6th. >> I mean, you're talking about supply chain merchandise. I can't I can't
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picture it. I mean, because you have a lot of SKs in I mean, how >> Barbara, this is the This is the popup.
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This is This is the popup Jedi. I mean, are you [laughter] kidding? Like, this guy has I mean, come on. Cut it out.
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>> I want I invite you to come on down, see what See what we're doing back there.
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But yes, so so we to reveal one of one issue, we uh we've already sent the merchandise to the stores. So the stores
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that are converting have already got the merchandise there and that's will be you
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know so >> so they're like back office back stores in these stores there's
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>> well there's yeah these are larger stores so they tend to have other than the five we opened uh
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prior to >> any in Philly any Christmas ones in Philly >> uh we'll be in Cherry Hill Cherry Hill
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nice >> it's worth a trip >> yeah absolutely little trek over the
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bridge that's incredible that is >> well good luck with that I Love the idea
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of it's got to be different and I love the idea that it's consist. I like it
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that Spirit and Spencer had a baby. I just love that. >> I love that too. >> But but it's true. Like it is amazing
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this Instagram culture and how all this stuff there. It's very experiential but you
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need to buy things to fit into the experience. >> Um so you take the experience home with
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you. >> Yeah. I mean look we're we very much tap into uh social media. that is very much
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a part of our you know strategy in terms of you know what how our conversation how are we uh communicating with our
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fans and you know sort of what are they saying about us >> I'm curious then because I talked to D
00:25:58
we talked to Duingo when the guy told us what his social media strategy was and I'll tell you what he said and then you
00:26:05
tell me what you do he said he hired a creative person and then just let her go but they test test test test.
00:26:14
>> So it's not it is science, but he doesn't tell her what to do, but they
00:26:20
test what works and what doesn't. That's Do you remember America? Isn't that kind
00:26:24
of what he said? >> That's kind of what he said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So what is the Because I
00:26:30
also to build on Barbara's point, Stephen, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
00:26:32
believe that the spirit social media team is like >> they'll clap back at you, man.
00:26:38
>> Oh, yeah. [laughter] >> Right. They're not weeping willows. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:26:43
>> Well, you know, he look your your your best advocates are the the fans themselves. So, the best clapbacks
00:26:50
actually come from the people from the the the people who are defending us and that really becomes very authentic.
00:26:56
>> Um, but yeah, when SNL did a little thing, we came back a little bit, but
00:27:00
that's part of it. We're very fluid. It's very much a part of our, you know,
00:27:05
branding to to, you know, sort of sort of be in that zeitgeist and, you know, we we certainly can't buy it. Um, but
00:27:15
we're certainly willing to be a part of the joke and uh part of the part of the
00:27:19
fun. And I got to tell you, you know, we're we're we're certainly in in no way
00:27:24
buttoned down about it. Uh to the point that some of this comes from out of the blue. Like we had no idea that SNL thing
00:27:32
was happening. >> We had no idea. I don't know whether you saw a naked gun for they they unraveled
00:27:39
the banner. We have no idea when these late night guys go and they hang the banner on uh Yankee Stadium or on the
00:27:46
Capitol or that's amazing the veteran stadium when Philly's lost. You know
00:27:50
this is but but that's [laughter] you know just keep the do keep the conversation going and uh you know sort
00:27:57
of have a let it let it fly. The brand is part of culture. I love this, Stephen. Yeah.
00:28:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that's when it's authentic and the fact that the people are local, the the
00:28:06
charity is local, the stores are local. >> Yeah. It's authentic. That's the magic
00:28:12
word in social media. >> Yep. Awesome. >> Well, Stephen, we are out of time. Thank
00:28:17
you so much. >> It's amazing. >> Thank you so much for joining us. So,
00:28:23
where can our listeners know to go to find out where the stores are or if they want to buy online? Well, you can still
00:28:29
buy online, but uh it's going to be a little dicey. Spirit Halloween.com. >> Go to the store.
00:28:34
>> Spirit Halloween.com. And there's a store store locator. There's a little
00:28:38
arrow and pop the arrow. It'll give you a uh a store locator. We have five more.
00:28:43
What is it? Five more days. Five or six more days. >> Um [clears throat] so, uh you know, if you're last minute,
00:28:50
>> just prepare to dance while you're in line because the music will be good.
00:28:53
[laughter] I promise you that. >> Maggie, do you have your costume? You know, I'm I'm still struggling, Stephen.
00:29:00
I'm a little bit late this year, so I have not picked out my costume yet. Barbara, how about you, Barbara?
00:29:04
>> No, I haven't yet either. I might use the one I bought last year. I keep mine.
00:29:09
I That's thing. I think everybody thinks you need a new costume, but like [laughter] yeah,
00:29:16
>> I I guess it is about variety. Well, anyway, thank you so much, Mr. Halloween, for being here with us. And I
00:29:23
can't imagine, but you're not very busy right now, so thanks for taking the
00:29:26
time. 100%. Thank you so much. >> Happy Halloween, everybody. >> Same to you as well, sir. We really
00:29:31
appreciate you. >> Thank you. That's all we have time for today. Thank you for listening. We'd
00:29:36
like to thank our producers, Dion Simpkins and Marissa Rena. And we'll be back next week. Till then, this has been
00:29:42
Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast. I'm Barbara Khan here with America's Reed.