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this podcast is brought to you by
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knowled of
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[Music]
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warten hi my name is Stephanie Cy and
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I'm an assistant professor of management
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at the Wharton School of the University
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of Pennsylvania and I'm delighted to
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welcome you to today's episode of the
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knowledge at Wharton leading diversity
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at work podcast series which is focused
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on cra in the hidden corporate code
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navigating the workplace without
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sacrificing authenticity and so joining
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me today is a very special guest who's
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also a friend um so it's always great to
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me when I get to have people who I've
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known for a long time here on the show
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but she is Dr Ella Washington she's a
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professor of practice at Georgetown
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University's mcdna School of Business
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she's also founder and CEO of elevate
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Solutions uh a recognized Authority and
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diversity Equity inclusion Dr Washington
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has consulted with businesses across
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Industries including Finance energy
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education and government she's written
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two books we'll talk about both today
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her first book was called the necessary
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Journey making real progress on equity
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and inclusion and it underscores her uh
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dedication to transformative change in
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workplaces her fourth coming book which
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is coming out this may is called
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unspoken a guide to cracking the hidden
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corporate code in this book she uh she
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directly assists individuals in
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navigating the challenges of corporate
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environments uh by decoding the implicit
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rules governing these spaces uh she
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empowers them to overcome obstacles and
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fulfill their career aspirations so
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welcome Ella thank you so much for
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joining me today it's just such a
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pleasure an honor to have you here on
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this as part of this podcast series um
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so before we get to the new one the new
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book I I think it would be really great
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to talk about your first book uh because
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I think it as as I've come to understand
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it it set the stage for why you decided
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to take on the SE the second book in the
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way that you did um so the first book
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the necessary Journey uh making real
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progress on Equity inclusion can you
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share a little bit about the Genesis of
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this book um why did you decide to write
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it and and what was the reception to it
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or what has the reception to it been
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like for you well Stephanie thank you so
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much for having me first and foremost um
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as you said from knowing each other for
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many years in this space it's always a
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pleasure when our Worlds Collide in this
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beautiful way right um and so going back
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to my first book the necessary Journey
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making real progress on equity and
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inclusion we have to go back to 20120 uh
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in the midst of the pandemic um at the
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height of the racial Reckoning after the
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murder of George Floyd and during that
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summer as you've already noted I'm both
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a researcher and a practitioner so
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during that summer a lot of CE EOS and
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chro were reaching out to me to have
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conversations either to help them with a
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town hall they were trying to have about
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racial Equity or the lack thereof in
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their organizations um or they wanted
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help with their their Dei strategies
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that all of a sudden became really
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important for them and I started to
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notice this trend that no matter what
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the presentation was the CEO or other
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leader in the room would say at the end
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of you know my Dei presentation that was
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great and I'm on board but they would
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pull me aside and say you know I really
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want to understand where we actually are
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on the journey so they're like I bought
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into everything you just shared but like
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really where are we on the journey and
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then they would say how do we compare to
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other people right and there's this
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pervasive sense of we want to get a a
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right we want to know that we're doing
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something well or we want to know how to
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improve if we're not at that a level if
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we're not doing our best right and once
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I heard those questions 10 20 30 50 plus
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times in the course of the short month
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um in 2020 you know I realized that
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though there were lotss of academic
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Papers written by yourself and so many
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others and there were a lot of
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practitioner models there was something
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missing why all of these people who are
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interested and you know really trying to
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be engaged were questioning you know
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what the journey was all about and it
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made me realize that you know for so
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many years we've always said it's a
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journey it's a journey it's a journey
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that was a popular saying but most
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people didn't really take the time to
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understand and unpack what is that
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actual Journey what what does it
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actually mean to be on a diversity
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equity and inclusion journey and so all
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that to say you know the research I have
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been doing for many years prior to this
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point all kind of culminated in this
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resource that I wanted to provide to
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demystify what the Dei Journey was all
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about and how organizations can make
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progress okay and so the reception
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what's the reception to this book been
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like yeah so you know for for me the
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reception has been wonderful to this
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book leaders have often commented they
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feel seen and they feel like their
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stories are being told so in the book is
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a case study of 10 different
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organizations that were so gracious for
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me to look under their hoods and to
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really see what was going on the good
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and the Bad and the Ugly and I think
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that level of cander was what a lot of
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leaders really appreciated because it's
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so easy to feel like oh you have to be
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perfect you have to get everything
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exactly right but that's not really what
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a journey is all about and I think um
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you know the way that I presented these
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um case studies in my book really helped
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make it feel accessible to people and
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for them to feel like okay I can do this
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too or our organization's not perfect
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but we can still make progress as well
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yeah so I would be remiss if I didn't
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acknowledge the current
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context uh one in which I would say
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people who are very anti-de eii have a
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very loud
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megaphone and are amplifying messages
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that suggest that this journey isn't one
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that we be on you know I've spent a lot
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of time talking to academics and
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practitioners about the current context
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and many of us who have been around for
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a while like yourselves acknowledge that
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there's always been resistance to
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diversity equo inclusion is a fact
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there's an entire volume edited volume
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kha Thomas's book on diversity
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resistance and organization that was
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published in
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2008 um and so what doesn't seem new is
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that people are um you know not in
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they're they're not pro Dei initiatives
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or Pro the journey they're actually
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thinking that we shouldn't be engaging
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in this what feels different is sort of
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the lack of the the the the the presence
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of more voice around this issue from
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those who don't care about this topic so
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much um in ways that felt like perhaps
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before they were just pretending that
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they were engaged or they were just
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remaining silent um and so I'm thinking
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of all that as I asked my follow-up
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question to you which is if you were to
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add another chat to this book the
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necessary journey and that somehow
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acknowledged where we are now as
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compared to where you were when you
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wrote this in in sort of this more
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favorable external environment for Dei
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what would that chapter be about yeah
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it's such a good question and for me
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when I think about you know a book is
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it's a static thing right it's like oh I
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wish I could have added this or that or
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I wish I would have known this would
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have happened you know six months later
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um and so if I could go back and add
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something to the book it would be on
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focusing on accountability and
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maintaining your Dei values in times of
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change you know to your point when the
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book was written there was a lot of of
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of excitement um for this journey and
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people said that we know it's going to
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be hard but we're committed for the long
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term and we haven't quite seen that
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right across the board um and so I would
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write a chapter on how to navigate those
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sticky moments when your stakeholders in
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your organization maybe they have had a
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change of opinion or your customers are
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complaining because they heard something
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on a particular news station and they
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don't really understand it right and how
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that connects with their business um I
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would also encourage people to be more
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transparent internally right um I think
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that a lot of the smoke and mirrors that
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happened with the rush to put out Dei
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statements or arrest to make these big
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pledges um and the reverse now that's
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happening you know uh behind the
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curtains of not refilling that Chief
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diversity officer role or these ERG
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groups um not no longer having the same
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resources and budgets allocated there
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should be more transparency through the
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whole process um and the reality is is
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that sometimes businesses do have to
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Pivot and shift right for different
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reasons though we don't encourage that
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we know that happens but that level of
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transparency um still should be had if
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you want your employees to trust you for
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the long term okay so one more question
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about this book before we move on to
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talking about the second and that
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is how hopeful or pessimistic are you at
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this moment in time about the future
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state of diversity Equity inclusion
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practices and organizations you know
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I'll quote uh one of our our shared
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mentors elel and say you know history
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and time is on our side and by that you
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know we are we are not new to this
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resistance around Dei um and we know
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that the pendulum will continue to swing
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even when we're seeing it unearth in
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ways that maybe aren't so familiar if
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you look at the big picture of of what's
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Happening Here we've seen it before and
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unfortunately we'll see it again and so
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I have to be optimistic to do this work
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Stephanie because I think if I wasn't I
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don't know what I how I can get up every
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day but I am truly optimistic now I
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think we're we're in for some tough
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times um in the years to come right with
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the laws being changed as we see the
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ramifications of that but ultimately I
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do believe in humanity I do believe that
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we're all um after the same thing and
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when it comes to workplaces we should
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all be in environments that we could
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Thrive and to me that is the core of the
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work at least that I do is is really
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just to elevate Humanity in the
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workplace and so I'm still still
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optimistic so I think you know humanity
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is on our side but the evidence is also
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on our side too right so if I think
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about um you know work that you know
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I've done or work work that you know
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some of our other friends have done is
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we found that when you don't have
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diversity Equity inclusion practices in
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place everyone's experience of the
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workplace is less positive and or more
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negative and so while the current
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discourse has suggested that de I
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practices are favoring some groups right
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in their workplace success relative to
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others what we actually know is that
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there is a difference in the employee
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experience as a whole across demographic
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groups in organizations that have Dei
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practices in place and those that don't
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and so what my perception of this
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current contest has been um people have
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taken certain diversity practices for
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example like hiring and they decided
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that that's the sum total of what we do
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from a Dei practices perspective they
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they don't recognize because they don't
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have enough facility with the
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conversation they don't know about youve
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mentioned employee resource groups they
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don't know about mentorship and
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sponsorship programs they don't know
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about all the things that diversity
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practices actually contribute to culture
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building and so from my perspective you
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know the the evidence um is also going
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to it it should those of us who know and
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consume evidence and don't reject
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evidence they would tell us that you
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know diversity practices um are
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important and they are here to stay I
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don't know what your thoughts on that
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are but you know I completely agree and
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I even push it a little further to say
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you know ultimately diversity practices
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are good management practices right and
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and while they're requires nuance and
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understanding of complexities when it
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comes to some dynamics that we talk
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about in diversity equity and inclusion
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ultimately the the things that we're
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trying to teach people around candid
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conversations around tactical Solutions
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around measur measuring change for
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Progress around change management those
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are good management practices and if
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we're doing them with for everyone right
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like they say a rising tie lifts all
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boats um we should be improving in our
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management practices whether we call it
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dni or not right if we're having
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meaningful conversations if we're trying
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to get to know people if we're trying to
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help them leverage their strengths it's
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going to benefit the whole organization
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so I I completely agree with you there
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absolutely and I think the other thing
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that you said that struck me as being
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really important to reinforce
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was this notion of um the pendulum
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swinging um and this is where a
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historical perspective becomes really
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important and I as you know I won't say
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that I'm the the the eldest of the
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people who've been involved in this
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conversation but like you it's been two
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decades of Engagement um in some shape
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or another and what I've come to
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understand is a lot of the organizations
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and people who got involved in this
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conversation in 2020 they don't have
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that historical perspective so this
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feels it is painful but it feels really
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really really painful if this is your
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first rodeo so to speak when it comes to
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the pendulum swinging in a way that
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people don't value this topic as much
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it's exactly why I started my book the
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necessary Journey with a chapter on the
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history and context of diversity equity
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and inclusion and not just from a um
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what has happened in history since the
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Civil Rights Movement and affirmative
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action laws but also even in
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nomenclature like many people in 2020
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were focused on do we add Equity do we
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add Justice like what are the words that
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we should be using and so part of what I
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tried to do in the first chapter is
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break that down like how did we get to
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Dei in the first place what does it mean
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and what should it mean for your
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organization so a lot of those
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foundational elements can't be skipped
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over just because we're ready to
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accelerate the conversation I think if
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we do so too fast as we saw in 2020 we
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miss some of those key things that
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needed for us to to move forward by
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understanding where we've already been
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on this journey absolutely absolutely so
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I want to move into having a
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conversation around your latest book
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which I've not read yet but I'm very
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excited to read it and you know
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acknowledge at the top of our
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conversation that you and I have known
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each other for a long time we actually
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were PhD students in different
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institutions um and I think I think I've
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just like a couple years ahead of you
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one or two I think one year ahead of you
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project at the same time
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project which is a you know nonprofit
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organization that's focused on
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increasing the diversity of Business
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School faculty and so we would go to all
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of our our our programs as as Junior
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people trying and figure out how we
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going to na navigate Academia so I can't
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help but from the the short synopsis
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that I've read of your your uh book I I
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can't help but think of two things one
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is like man these are the conversations
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that we used to have um as part of our
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summer professional development
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workshops was about how do we crack the
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hidden codee of Academia and what it
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takes to be successful in this field so
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I I see a little bit of for me it's it's
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nostalgic and I wonder if it is for you
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and second I remember some of the early
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research that you were doing in your PhD
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program which was very much focused on
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individuals um and their experiences
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navigating organizational environments
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and so for me what I'm projecting here
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is I wonder if part of the motivation
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for this book was coming back to the
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roots of the psychological roots of of
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of where you started this process of
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understanding organizational life but
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then you can just tell me whatever you
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feel is your real motivation I just
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thought it was about you connecting back
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to these aspects of your past my
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question for you is what motivated you
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to to write this book and who do you who
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is this book for who needs it so
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Stephanie you nailed it as far as where
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this book got its Genesis from um when I
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think back over my career the positive
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and the negative
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um there were always moments where
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people were helping me to understand how
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to navigate the environment or there
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were moments that I clearly had a
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misstep and wish I would have known
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something right and so thinking back to
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my first corporate jobs um feeling like
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there's always you know this if you know
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you know type of environment and you had
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to be in an inner circle to like really
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understand how things worked um or even
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back to my my PhD years and how
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organizations like the PHD project not
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only gave us Community where it was safe
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to ask those questions they kind of put
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it in front of our face like you know
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there are things you don't know how to
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navigate let us help you um explicitly
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right and so because of those
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experiences and many others I've seen in
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understanding how women and people of
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color and other people of non-dominant
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identities experience the workplace I
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wanted to provide a resource to
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encourage um and give people some
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tactical things they could do to
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navigate these workspaces that may not
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have been built for them and so um what
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I mean by that is like this is not about
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diminishing your identity or
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authenticity it's actually about
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understanding that better and how it
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fits within the work environment and
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helping you to navigate those work
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environments or recognize if they're not
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healthy work environments for you and
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and thinking about ways to to make a
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career shift so I love that point that
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you're making right here is that there's
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choice right is some of these and
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there's some of these organizations are
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better for you perhaps than others so
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the choice could be navigating this
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organization or the choice could be
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going to a different organization where
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that has the resources and support and
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the climate culture that allows you to
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be
00:17:48
successful um and so I would love to get
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some examples from you or like like
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without giving a whole book away right
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and again the book is called unspoken a
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guide to cracking the the hidden
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corporate code without giving away all
00:18:01
the juice yeah to know like what are
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some examples of tips or pointers that
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you share or stories yeah so each
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chapter is uh a different tactic that
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you should be putting in your toolkit if
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you will um so some of my favorites are
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owning your story um because that's all
00:18:22
about being clear on your own identity
00:18:24
and how you show up in the workplace and
00:18:27
thinking about how you want to show up
00:18:28
in the workplace um I interviewed over
00:18:31
100 different people uh of all different
00:18:33
walks of life for this book and so
00:18:36
there's so many stories that I could
00:18:37
think about um but one that comes to
00:18:39
mind around owning your story was from
00:18:41
an Asian-American young woman um and she
00:18:44
was in the Consulting space and she
00:18:46
vividly remembers kind of downplaying
00:18:48
her Asian Heritage early in her life she
00:18:52
talked about how she didn't want to
00:18:53
bring her traditional food to lunch when
00:18:55
she was in a child because she didn't
00:18:57
wanted to smell different
00:18:59
than the other kids lunch she talked
00:19:01
about how when she was an early career
00:19:03
consultant um she thought just you know
00:19:05
putting her head down and working really
00:19:07
hard was the way to go and started to
00:19:10
get confused when she got pushed back
00:19:11
when Partners were saying they didn't
00:19:12
really know her even though she was
00:19:14
coming to work and working super hard
00:19:16
and it wasn't until she kind of
00:19:18
interrogated you know how she was
00:19:19
showing up in the workplace that she
00:19:21
realized oh my goodness I am literally
00:19:23
just like my mom in our culture you know
00:19:26
we have these expectations that you do
00:19:28
put your head down and you work really
00:19:30
hard and I didn't realize I was bringing
00:19:32
that into the workplace and so how can I
00:19:35
own who I am and also let that be part
00:19:38
of my identity at work as well in order
00:19:40
for people to get to know me a little
00:19:42
bit better but also for me to to
00:19:44
navigate this space more authentically
00:19:46
yeah absolutely um so you already
00:19:49
started to answer my next question but
00:19:51
you know I'm a person who as you know
00:19:53
does a lot of qualitative research so
00:19:54
it's really the stories yeah I
00:19:57
appreciate numbers but the num to me
00:19:59
only make sense as far as there is a
00:20:00
human being attached to to that so I'm
00:20:03
interested in like other stories of
00:20:06
people that have stuck with you um as
00:20:10
you do this work and so just as an
00:20:11
example you know a lot of the stories
00:20:13
that I tend to share these days uh when
00:20:16
I'm out in corporate spaces talking
00:20:19
about you know diversity equi inclusion
00:20:21
like you is I actually share my students
00:20:23
stories um because what's fascinating is
00:20:27
I've come to understand that sometimes
00:20:31
leaders need the motivation that there
00:20:33
is a younger generation who cares
00:20:35
passionately about inclusive workplaces
00:20:38
in order to continue to sustain the
00:20:40
efforts right and the whole thing around
00:20:42
the war for talent and having uh making
00:20:45
sure that you're able to be competitive
00:20:47
with other companies that are trying to
00:20:49
recruit from the same Talent pools as
00:20:51
you so there's this idea that when we
00:20:54
talk about younger people sometimes that
00:20:57
at least anecdotal has felt like it has
00:20:59
gauged more interest and so a story that
00:21:01
I often share is about my student
00:21:05
experiences of um their internships or
00:21:09
their first jobs so sometimes it's
00:21:13
they've taken my class or they've just
00:21:14
been in particularly undergraduate
00:21:16
students they've taken my class or
00:21:18
they've just been on a college campus
00:21:19
for a while and then they go and take a
00:21:21
summer internship with some firm and
00:21:24
they're sending me
00:21:26
emails long saying
00:21:29
I feel like this is reinforcing you know
00:21:31
the challenges that we talked about in
00:21:33
class and I just need to you know can we
00:21:35
hop on a phone for 30 minutes so you can
00:21:37
help me figure out how to navigate this
00:21:39
place so that's just like a starting
00:21:41
ground for why I think sharing stories
00:21:43
is important better are there other
00:21:45
stories that you could think of and
00:21:46
particularly things of younger people or
00:21:49
older people because I feel like people
00:21:51
of all ages can have challenges
00:21:52
navigating workplace so what's funny is
00:21:55
that I knew I was on to something with
00:21:57
this book topic when one of my uh
00:22:00
seniors that I had last year he's
00:22:01
graduated and now is is working in the
00:22:04
sports and entertainment industry he
00:22:06
reached out and said Dr Washington do
00:22:07
you have just like 20 minutes I I just
00:22:10
I'm in my first few months of work and a
00:22:12
lot of things that we talked about in
00:22:13
our class diversity equity and inclusion
00:22:15
in the workplace they're coming up and I
00:22:17
was like okay great let's let's get on
00:22:18
the call so we get on the call and he's
00:22:20
like you know I turn down this job and
00:22:23
finance because I was really passionate
00:22:26
about working in the sports and
00:22:27
entertainment field field and while I'm
00:22:29
happy to be here I have no idea what's
00:22:31
going on it's not like when I was at the
00:22:33
banks and they had an internship fully
00:22:36
prepared they had mentors already picked
00:22:38
out it kind of just left me to go like
00:22:40
with the wolves in this organization and
00:22:42
so I don't know how to navigate it I
00:22:43
don't know if my manager likes me I
00:22:45
don't know if I'm doing a good job Etc
00:22:47
right and so in hearing his questions
00:22:50
and frustrations it made me realize
00:22:53
there's so many work environments that
00:22:55
don't have that buttoned up structure of
00:22:57
how to own board new employees
00:22:59
especially those who may not have had
00:23:01
experience navigating the workplace
00:23:03
right and what we're seeing from a data
00:23:05
perspective is that particularly with
00:23:07
jiny um a lot of organizations are
00:23:09
feeling those Co years those lack of
00:23:12
in-person internships Etc as they're
00:23:15
seeing how this new generation is
00:23:17
showing up and so I'm I'm team jenzy
00:23:19
because I teach them all the time and I
00:23:21
know that every generation again it's
00:23:23
the pendulum we we all complain about
00:23:24
the Next Generation Um Etc but you know
00:23:28
what been really curious for me is
00:23:29
seeing how my students have uh noticed
00:23:34
their work environments have shifted so
00:23:35
dramatically than what they thought they
00:23:37
were going into like before the pandemic
00:23:39
and before you know such a hybrid work
00:23:41
environment Etc so that's one thing that
00:23:44
comes to mind another story that comes
00:23:45
to mind is one of my NBA students Omar
00:23:48
and um he was really fascinating in in
00:23:51
his experience because he actually said
00:23:53
no to being a the head of the employee
00:23:57
Resource Group for AFC African-Americans
00:23:59
at his company and he was a black man
00:24:00
right and so this was really fascinating
00:24:02
to me because not only in my book do I
00:24:04
talk about the power of strategic NOS
00:24:07
making room for better yeses in your
00:24:10
career but it's also knowing how to say
00:24:14
no when something isn't aligned with
00:24:16
your goals and and what you can bring to
00:24:18
the workplace so you know um Omar he
00:24:21
talked about how diversity inclusion was
00:24:23
already part of his day job for one of
00:24:25
the the functional roles that he had and
00:24:27
so he felt like wasn't adding much value
00:24:29
to also put him in this you know ERG
00:24:32
head role and it didn't align with his
00:24:35
his goals his his he had already decided
00:24:37
his goals were to get more exposure to
00:24:39
the senior leadership team um of the
00:24:41
organization so while he said no to that
00:24:43
and made some suggestions for other
00:24:45
people who may be good for that role he
00:24:47
shared with me that instead he pitched
00:24:49
this podcast or a video blogcast idea um
00:24:53
to the C team because they were talking
00:24:55
about the high attrition rates of some
00:24:57
of the younger folks in the organization
00:24:59
low engagement and reporting that they
00:25:02
didn't really feel like they knew the
00:25:03
senior executive team they didn't know
00:25:04
what they stood for ETC so fast forward
00:25:07
he creates this this Blog video blog
00:25:10
idea where he's interviewing everybody
00:25:12
at the SE Suite level and it goes viral
00:25:14
in their company and so in that way he
00:25:17
not only aligned with his own goals to
00:25:19
get to know more of the sea Suite he
00:25:21
also helped the organization in their
00:25:22
goals to kind of close some of those
00:25:24
generational um communication gaps and
00:25:27
ultimately I felt like it was a win-win
00:25:29
right and so that is one really strong
00:25:32
example from my book around how you
00:25:34
create your own Niche thinking about
00:25:36
your your strengths what your goals are
00:25:38
and what the organization needs what
00:25:40
problem can you solve by bringing your
00:25:43
unique great self so the word that I
00:25:46
used at the top of our conversation
00:25:48
today was the a word the authenticity
00:25:51
word so this is a very
00:25:54
interesting concept and everybody has a
00:25:57
different opinion on
00:25:58
what it means if you should be it or not
00:26:02
but I will tell you it is and it's also
00:26:05
when I'm teaching my Dei classes at
00:26:07
Warton I struggle with what is the
00:26:10
message that I'm trying to send when
00:26:13
we're talking about
00:26:15
authenticity and because on the one hand
00:26:18
you know this the people who who care a
00:26:21
lot these days around showing up
00:26:23
authentically whatever version of that
00:26:25
they feel is aligned with what they are
00:26:28
at asking for um are people who are
00:26:31
younger and have less
00:26:34
hierarchical power in less in less
00:26:37
tenure in an
00:26:39
organization and so I hear them saying
00:26:42
you know I want to be able to be the
00:26:45
version of me that I value wherever I go
00:26:52
when I show up in the workplace but then
00:26:55
I will go and speak at a company
00:26:58
and what I hear is there are
00:27:01
rules and there are policies and they
00:27:05
are here because we feel like these
00:27:07
rules and
00:27:08
policies allow us to not become
00:27:12
distracted by people's personal lives
00:27:14
I'm I'm saying this paraphrasing real
00:27:17
things heard on the street which is I'm
00:27:19
sure you've heard and so I feel very
00:27:21
much in the middle as a professor trying
00:27:24
to think about these two very different
00:27:27
perspectives on on authenticity and so
00:27:31
as you think about this and this term
00:27:33
this concept and how you use that in
00:27:35
your book and and certainly in your
00:27:37
teaching where where have you landed
00:27:40
with respect to like where's the sweet
00:27:42
spot if there is one so I've landed on
00:27:45
the the old Facebook term is complicated
00:27:47
right um I think that organizations
00:27:52
started to say bring your whole self to
00:27:55
work be authentic probably early 2000s
00:27:58
201s right that became All the Rage but
00:28:00
I think what hasn't shifted is what we
00:28:03
actually mean by that because if you go
00:28:05
back to the early 2000s 2010s social
00:28:08
media did not exist or it was just
00:28:10
becoming a thing right and so even how
00:28:13
much of ourselves that was even out in
00:28:15
The Ether was different than what we
00:28:18
have today right and so workplaces may
00:28:20
say bring your authentic self but then
00:28:22
they're monitoring what you're doing on
00:28:23
social media or they're looking at you
00:28:26
know what these different um elements of
00:28:28
your life are as they're evaluating you
00:28:30
for a job so it's definitely complicated
00:28:33
I think we all have work sales and
00:28:34
personal sales right and um I personally
00:28:37
think that it's important to understand
00:28:40
the expectations for all employees at
00:28:43
whatever organization that you're
00:28:44
working in so what does professionalism
00:28:46
mean For Better or For Worse what are
00:28:47
the expectations and where do I fit in
00:28:50
with that I think it comes back to
00:28:52
Choice um I I don't think organizations
00:28:54
really mean be your full cranky you know
00:28:58
mean self Etc um they need be your
00:29:02
professional selves and and they should
00:29:03
be you know clear about what that means
00:29:05
in that organization and we as employees
00:29:09
have to evaluate the organization based
00:29:11
on their actions and and what they are
00:29:13
actually allowing uh in their culture
00:29:16
right and so if an organization says
00:29:18
that EV values differences of opinion
00:29:20
and you share a Divergent perspective
00:29:22
and you're always getting push back on
00:29:24
that maybe there's misalignment in what
00:29:26
they're saying and what's happening and
00:29:29
there are many different ways to deal
00:29:31
with that but one is to evaluate
00:29:32
longterm is this organization the right
00:29:35
place for you absolutely I think you
00:29:38
know it's interesting so I'm a gen xer
00:29:40
um which surprises a lot of people I
00:29:42
said well it's a younger AG end of Gen X
00:29:45
I'm definitely not a millennial every
00:29:47
time I see what's characteristic of
00:29:48
millennial I said no I'm actually more
00:29:50
firmly in the Gen X camp and so when I
00:29:52
think about myself as a gen xer I came
00:29:54
into the workplace at a time where there
00:29:56
were rules and there were policies and
00:29:58
you don't show up as anything other than
00:30:01
what the ideal worker in that
00:30:03
organization is and so that's how I was
00:30:07
socialized until the conversation
00:30:10
shifted toward this bring your whole
00:30:12
self to work and that made me very
00:30:15
anxious because I didn't trust it and
00:30:18
when I go into companies and I see the
00:30:20
other Generation X managers and leaders
00:30:23
they're in the same place they don't
00:30:25
quite trust the narrative as align with
00:30:28
who you can really be and so I think one
00:30:30
of the things that we've all had to
00:30:31
contend with and what I tell my students
00:30:32
I also have students who are not sharers
00:30:35
as as many students I have that really
00:30:37
want to it all to be seen all the time I
00:30:39
do have students who are concerned
00:30:41
because there you know a lot of people
00:30:42
who I I teach have marginalized
00:30:44
identities and some of them are less
00:30:46
visible um than others and so one of the
00:30:49
things that I've come to terms with is
00:30:51
is I'm comfortable sharing when I in for
00:30:54
the sake of authenticity because I also
00:30:56
know that people some people's sense of
00:30:59
belonging some people's sense of
00:31:00
community is contingent on my
00:31:02
willingness to share more of myself with
00:31:05
them there are a couple of topics that
00:31:06
I'm happy talking about one of them is
00:31:09
I'm happy to talk about the fact that I
00:31:11
grew up in Las Vegas it's a great
00:31:12
conversation piece right and it seems
00:31:15
and I get to allow I get the opportunity
00:31:17
to break down people's stereotypes
00:31:19
around the city and the town and people
00:31:20
who live there by talking about that's
00:31:22
where I grew up you know I'm happy to
00:31:24
talk about that fact that uh I was a
00:31:26
professional dancer modern dancer for a
00:31:28
long time students and young people
00:31:30
really connect to that because they're
00:31:32
like whoa I I never met somebody who was
00:31:34
a professor who had this whole other
00:31:37
life and it allows us to feel connected
00:31:40
and you know allows them to understand
00:31:42
that you know these things are still my
00:31:43
passion I don't dance anymore but I
00:31:45
appreciate arts and culture and then
00:31:47
there's certain aspects of my family
00:31:49
that I'm happy to talk about I recently
00:31:51
got married in last October so and I'm
00:31:54
in my 40s now and so I like to tell
00:31:56
people that because I know especially
00:31:58
lots of career oriented women struggle
00:32:01
with how do I navigate all the things
00:32:04
but then there's other things that I
00:32:05
don't want to talk about and I have
00:32:07
found that if I just share those three
00:32:09
things for someone like me who is a
00:32:11
little bit concerned around what this
00:32:13
authenticity thing means in the
00:32:15
workplace that has taken the threat down
00:32:17
a lot for me and so I usually tell
00:32:20
people pick the things pick the three
00:32:23
things that you want to talk about that
00:32:25
you would feel that that feel less
00:32:27
threatening that just would allow
00:32:29
somebody to get to know you better uh so
00:32:31
that's sort of how I the tip that I have
00:32:33
around this I'm curious what are your
00:32:35
tips if you if you find someone who is
00:32:38
like I don't know if I want to share
00:32:40
anything with everybody knowing what you
00:32:42
know about the evidence around how
00:32:43
important that is for Community what do
00:32:46
you often recommend well it's funny
00:32:48
because I I feel comfortable sharing in
00:32:51
this space because I am that person who
00:32:54
you know grew up thinking there's a
00:32:56
separation of work and life and you
00:32:58
don't cross-pollinate your work self is
00:33:00
your work self you don't have friends
00:33:02
that you bring over to your personal
00:33:03
life and all those things and it's as a
00:33:05
black woman especially you know I've
00:33:07
always been very cautious to share too
00:33:09
much to uh illuminate any stereotypes to
00:33:13
let people know you know just how black
00:33:15
I am and those feelings that a lot of
00:33:17
people have right in the workplace and
00:33:19
so I think to your point right the more
00:33:21
senior you get in in your career the
00:33:23
more that you may have the ability um
00:33:26
and an increased level of comfort in
00:33:28
Sharing certain things right but that's
00:33:29
not the case for everyone but I have
00:33:31
found that you know compared to 10 15
00:33:33
years ago there's a lot more I feel
00:33:35
comfortable with sharing but that has
00:33:36
been a journey so I one just like to
00:33:38
highlight it doesn't happen overnight
00:33:40
for everybody and there okay I can fully
00:33:43
agree with your approach that find those
00:33:45
things that you uh are comfortable
00:33:47
sharing um in my book I talk about
00:33:49
having a professional elevator pitch
00:33:51
that just focuses on your role and your
00:33:53
goals but also having a personal
00:33:54
elevator pitch who are you you know
00:33:56
where did you grow up or what whatever
00:33:58
those two or three things that you're
00:33:59
happy to share maybe you're the daughter
00:34:01
of veterans and so you moved around a
00:34:03
lot uh maybe you're super proud that you
00:34:05
went to a historically black Institution
00:34:07
for college maybe you're super proud of
00:34:09
your hobbies and you feel like they're
00:34:11
connected to some way that you're
00:34:13
showing up in the workplace right I
00:34:14
think that we have the opportunity to
00:34:17
craft our narrative if we first start by
00:34:19
owning said narrative so that's the
00:34:21
first step going back to that owning
00:34:23
your story but then once you have that
00:34:25
comfort with your own story you can
00:34:27
choose how much of yourself you want to
00:34:29
share in the workplace or not right
00:34:30
based on the psychological safety in the
00:34:33
organization your relationships with
00:34:35
your team members so again that doesn't
00:34:37
happen overnight but the longer that you
00:34:39
have intentional relationships the more
00:34:41
you may feel comfortable sharing and I
00:34:43
think that there's a dual responsibility
00:34:45
here I think the organization must make
00:34:48
the environment safe enough for people
00:34:50
to bring as much of themselves as they
00:34:53
want to right and so that's a caveat
00:34:55
like the organizational environment
00:34:57
should be safe for you to bring your
00:34:58
whole self but there should not be
00:35:00
expectation that you have to just you
00:35:02
know Let It All Hang Out For Better or
00:35:05
For Worse share things that may not be
00:35:07
appropriate or may not be helpful to the
00:35:09
brand that you're creating right and so
00:35:11
it's on the individual to to then lean
00:35:14
in whatever way they're comfortable find
00:35:16
those things they're comfortable sharing
00:35:18
understand that there is a positive
00:35:20
element of getting uh for people getting
00:35:22
to know you and getting to know some of
00:35:24
those more complicated elements um of
00:35:27
your identity and of how you're showing
00:35:29
up at work but it should never feel
00:35:30
forced or that you'll be judged if you
00:35:32
know you want to hold some personal
00:35:34
things more close to the best absolutely
00:35:36
absolutely so you know sadly our time is
00:35:40
winding down I knew it would go so fast
00:35:43
once we got on um again reminder the
00:35:46
book is unspoken a guide to cracking the
00:35:48
hidden corporate code final thoughts you
00:35:51
want to leave us about on on this book
00:35:53
or you know perhaps the other yeah so
00:35:56
unspoken is all about having these
00:35:59
conversations um you know I am a huge
00:36:02
proponent that the workplace should not
00:36:04
be a if you know you know culture um and
00:36:06
to help with that we all have a
00:36:08
responsibility to share those unspoken
00:36:10
rules yes we have written policies and
00:36:12
practices but there's so many of those
00:36:15
unspoken elements that I think would
00:36:17
really benefit from more conversations
00:36:19
with our peers with our mentors and with
00:36:21
people that are coming behind us in our
00:36:23
organizations absolutely all right well
00:36:25
thank you so much Dr Washington for
00:36:28
joining me today please her new book
00:36:31
unspoken a guide to cracking the hidden
00:36:33
corporate code um I look forward to
00:36:36
reading it it comes out in May um so I
00:36:39
think definitely when this episode drops
00:36:41
people should pre-order really important
00:36:44
to pre-order these books uh so that they
00:36:47
get the visibility that they need on all
00:36:50
sorts of platforms I know it's going to
00:36:52
be a success I am so excited but to see
00:36:55
Al all the great work that you've been
00:36:57
doing I'm very proud as a friend uh and
00:37:00
as a I would say as a a fellow so so
00:37:03
Joiner on on this
00:37:06
journey so I want to thank the audience
00:37:08
for joining us and listening to this
00:37:10
episode of the knowledge at Wharton
00:37:12
leading University at work podcast
00:37:13
series goodbye and we'll talk to you
00:37:15
next time thanks for having me for more
00:37:19
insight from knowledge at Wharton please
00:37:21
visit knowledge. Warton do.edu
00:37:27
[Music]
