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our guest today is Bernard David the
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chairman and CEO of co2 Sciences but I
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thank you so much for joining us at
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knowledge at Wharton thank you it's my
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honor to be here at Davos this year you
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launched a global co2 initiative did you
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come up with the idea and if so what was
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your inspiration I absolutely did and my
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inspiration was I was a Caltech about
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three years ago I know it's a sacrilege
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to be mentioning that in these in this
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interview but I saw that we had hit 400
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parts per million of co2 in the
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atmosphere realized that that was a big
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challenge and everyone was concerned
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about it
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so I just said wait a second could we
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actually take co2 and make products out
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of it and it's kind of gone from there
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so how do you go about taking co2 from
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the atmosphere and turning it into
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products can you explain that a little
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bit I absolutely can and and there are
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actually five sources of co2 that that
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can be used to make in into products so
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co2 comes out of the ground and that
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actually is used somewhat in something
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called an enhanced oil recovery to get
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more oil out of oil wells it actually
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comes off of industrial sources so in
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urea manufacturing you have a very pure
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stream of co2 and that's a second source
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that can be used to make product as well
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a third source is before you burn it you
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can actually take coal if you will and
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take the carbon out of it so you don't
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have the co2 and you can make fuels
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amongst other things or you can take it
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off of a coal-fired plant as its
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escaping into the atmosphere and and
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that's actually a good place to do it
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because it's highly energetic and you
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can capture it and use it there and and
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capturing it out of the air where it's
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400 parts per million you can also do
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the challenge with each of those five
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approaches is the cost and so the least
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expensive is the one taking it out of
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the ground and then industrial sources
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and it goes all the way up to taking it
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directly out of the air and today it
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costs between 600 and $1,000 a ton
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to take it out of the air because it's a
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needle in a haystack problem there are
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only you know 400 parts per million
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right so so that's that's where you can
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find it to capture it dis answer your
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question though yeah it does and I was
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actually going in a different direction
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with what I was asking earlier which is
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once you take the carbon from the
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atmosphere and you want to turn it into
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products right how large is the market
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for products that are called CCU
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products carbon capture and utilization
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products how large is the market and so
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what's the business opportunity there
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right right so that's that's a very good
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question in fact one that I asked early
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on because I was concerned I was first
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concerned about the technical do ability
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and we can talk about that later but
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then I was also concerned about the
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market size so he had McKinsey and
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company do a market assessment for us of
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the global markets what can you actually
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use co2 for what kind of products can
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you create what's the size of these
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markets what's the competitive landscape
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just on and on and on and we discovered
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that you can actually make 25 different
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products out of co2 and in 2030 the
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projection is this will be an 800
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billion to one point one trillion dollar
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annual market so it's a big deal coming
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back to the point earlier about taking
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carbon from the different processes you
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mentioned what's going to be your
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strategy of an area of focus probably
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not focusing on the air first I would
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imagine right so the way we're working
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we're actually building an entire
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ecosystem because we realize that such
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an animal did not exist and we think an
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end-to-end solution
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is absolutely critical which means that
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we're going to endeavor to fund R&D all
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over the world with people who have
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novel ideas to capture and then in turn
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transform co2 we're also then going to
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take a in on the commercialization
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aspect how do we actually commercialize
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these things because ultimately the
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solutions have got to get to scale so
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that it both creates the revenue as
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Frank
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and frankly it's climatologically
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significant meaning that it matters that
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we can capture enough co2 in the
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atmosphere and you mentioned you know
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some research projects I saw on your
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website that there is a plan to fund
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about a hundred million dollars a year
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in research right how would that process
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work and where are you at today in that
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process all right so today we've gotten
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commitments for over 50 million dollars
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total and our goal is to frankly
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aggregate as much money as possible our
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funding so that we can in turn fund more
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R&D and and our goal is a hundred
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million dollars a year for ten years so
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that's a billion dollars we'd love to
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have - we'd love to have three billion
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or even more because the more we have
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the more we can we can actually then
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fund from an R&D standpoint how it will
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work is as if you have an idea you'll
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present that idea to us and it will be
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vetted on technical terms does it work
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you know does it violate any of the laws
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of thermodynamics and and it will be
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vetted by a very esteemed panel of
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scientists if it passes that test
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questions was how large is the market so
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if you look at fizzy water and let's say
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that's your application that's a pretty
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small market so even if your application
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can work if it's a small one
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it doesn't necessarily fit that
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climatologically significant screen will
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then give you an award of let's just say
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hypothetically $250,000 you'll go off
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and you'll work on your invention we'll
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work with you so it goes from inception
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to bench scale prototype to pilot plant
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to hopefully large-scale
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commercialization and and when we're
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doing that
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we'll bring others in like large
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corporations to actually watch that
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happening because it may make sense for
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them to license your technologies and
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then you can get it to market in that
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way or you could do a greenfield startup
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we're also not averse in fact we're very
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keen on funding those things that are
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commercially viable today and we've
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talked about various examples there are
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some things that we think can get into
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the market today that can truly matter
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so what kind of example
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would you offer so the best example that
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I'm just so fond of telling is is cement
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and today's cement represents 7% of the
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global co2 emissions and that's a big
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that's a big number there's a process
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today where we can use co2 to create a
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calcium carbonate based cement which is
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structurally as integral as any other
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form of cement that's made it has cost
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parity and and it works it's actually
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commercially viable so it actually is
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70% less emit of than the normal cement
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process so if you can then reduce that
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7% by 70% by just deploying this to the
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world you can actually reduce global co2
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emissions today by five percent and when
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you add up all the different steps that
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you are planning to take huh what's the
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total impact on the environment and
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carbon dioxide usage that you would that
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you expect to see yeah so present co2
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emissions are about 37 Giga tons a year
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which to put it into a different terms
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is about 1.2 billion garbage trucks
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worth of mass and as we've talked about
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it's a lot of garbage trucks and it
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stays up in the atmosphere for hundreds
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of years
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so our in we're endeavoring to capture
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frankly as much as we possibly can but
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our goal is at least 10% of the global
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annual emissions which is north of we're
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hoping north of 4 Giga tons per year as
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you mentioned 50 million dollars in
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funding you've commitments you received
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so far whose the funding coming from and
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what are their incentives yeah yeah
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that's a really good question
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so we think this is appealing to kind of
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everyone whether you're an individual or
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Foundation Corporation a government we
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think that has appeal and we're seeing
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that that is the case we do have funding
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from all of those sources that I just
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mentioned every opportunity you know
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contains the seeds of risk when you talk
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to potential funders what are the main
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risks that you see in this program
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well it's interesting thing I'd flip it
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around just as we're saying how do you
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take carbon dioxide and and transform it
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from a liability to an asset the risk
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here is not doing this we're playing
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with the long-term health of not only
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the planet but all the species that live
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on it so that's the climate standpoint
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of things is there a risk to some of
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these aren't going to work absolutely we
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know that and we have to go in and as
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Vinod Khosla is fond of saying you need
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many shots on goal and we've decided
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that this R&D is critical it's
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absolutely critical especially if you
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look at what we've agreed to in Paris
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which was to get to hopefully a two
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degree or one-and-a-half degree world if
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you look at the IND C's which are what
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the each of the individual countries has
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agreed to we only get to a three and a
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half degree world so there's a gap
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between three and a half degrees and
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even if you say two degrees we through
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our studies have shown that we can
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capture enough co2 to close about 20% of
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that gap so we think it's very
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worthwhile are you getting a lot of
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interest from countries as well as
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companies absolutely what we're seeing
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that there are certain countries that
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are enlightened there are certain
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countries that actually realize that
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there is that gap and we need to find
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any and all solutions to to deal with it
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more big proponents on the
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all-of-the-above strategy when it comes
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to a climate standpoint but we're also
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big proponents and on sustainable
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solutions I'm a business person I
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obviously went to Wharton and I believe
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that the most sustainable solutions are
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those that have in a capitalist society
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economic value that's created and that's
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really what we're driving to do what's
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been your biggest challenge so far and
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how have you dealt with it so it's
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really a knowledge-based issue and and
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it's an awareness issue too there's so
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much complexity in the
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world today what we're trying to do is
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is convey not only the sense of urgency
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and need which in itself is an
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educational aspect but it's also that
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this is one of the critical pillars in
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solving the climate issues the agreement
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that we all reached in Paris was
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fabulous last week obviously there was a
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formal signing in New York City and and
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that was great and now people are saying
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what do we do what do we do we have to
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do things and this is what we can do
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today to actually make a difference so
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we're seeing all of a sudden we were
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aided by Paris because there wasn't that
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same recognition but what happened
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actually accelerated interest and
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frankly commitment that we're getting
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and as I've told you kind of my myself
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and my team have kind of stopped
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sleeping it's it's it's it's something
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that isn't necessarily necessary if you
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will because we're just being besieged
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by interest and and that's a good thing
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you just fund ask questions you would
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launch this in January and Davos at the
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World Economic Forum right if you were
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to fast forward the next four or five
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years where do you think you'll be
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oh we're I hope I that we will be and
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it's an aspiration is that we will have
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this ecosystem purring all over the
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world and I mean all over the world and
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we have everyone from individual high
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school students who are in consider
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themselves to inventors college students
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researchers and labs people who are
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tinkering in their garage is actually
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working on solutions because they
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realize by taking the co2 and using it
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as an asset to make things that that you
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know it actually is beneficial so we're
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hoping that it stimulates that kind of
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interest and excitement that there is
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hope because I found in the 16 years
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I've been looking at the sustainability
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issue that a lot of people have despair
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what can I actually do this is something
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you can do so that's exciting and then
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and and so my hope is is that we have
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lights all over the world with people
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working on it at the same time we're
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hoping that there's this massive
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commercialization which obviously
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happens
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both through green fielding of new
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startups but also through adopting of
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technology that comes out of this Rd and
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and has broad scale application and
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frankly we see ourselves reducing
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emissions through other vehicles whether
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it is clean energy sources or energy
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efficiency but we're also capturing and
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thus reducing on a permanent basis co2
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in the atmosphere by using in these
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products so if we're making headway and
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frankly if we get even halfway to that
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10% goal that we've set in terms of
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utilization of the co2 and even if we
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get to hundreds of billions of dollars
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worth of product I'm a happy person but
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but it's very worthwhile endeavor and I
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want to wish you all the very best not
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just for the sake of the initiative but
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for the sake of the the environmental
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health of the world good luck to you and
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thank you for speaking to knowledge at
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work thank you thank you for having me
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you
