00:00:00
You mentioned Barbara before we uh
00:00:02
before we started recording about the
00:00:04
shoulder issues and I mentioned my
00:00:06
shoulder issues and we were saying how
00:00:07
we're all broken. Uh actually behind me
00:00:10
you'll notice most of the art in my home
00:00:13
and I've got some surfing stuff but most
00:00:15
of it is Kugi pottery. Uh Kugi the
00:00:18
Japanese art form uh archetypal of
00:00:21
wabishabi representing the beauty in the
00:00:24
repairing of the brokenness. even more
00:00:27
beautiful that that real beauty in life
00:00:29
comes from that, you know, uniqueness
00:00:31
and how we shatter and and build back
00:00:33
stronger. And I think that for me,
00:00:35
groove is so much tied to this idea that
00:00:39
what makes us different shouldn't make
00:00:41
us hurt in our shoes, right? What makes
00:00:43
us different should be amplified and
00:00:45
celebrated. And I think that, you know,
00:00:47
we as humans are better when we as
00:00:50
humans are all acknowledged and
00:00:51
recognized and supported in our own way.
00:00:54
We're not an insult company trying to
00:00:55
figure out technology. We're a
00:00:57
technology company trying to
00:00:58
revolutionize how we wear shoes.
00:01:01
>> Hello and welcome. You're listening to
00:01:04
Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
00:01:06
network, which is our weekly podcast
00:01:08
where we analyze the latest in
00:01:10
advertising, marketing, customer
00:01:11
behavior, new product launches,
00:01:13
retailing, branding, anything marketing.
00:01:16
I'm Barbara Khan, a Patty and JHB Baker
00:01:18
professor of marketing and I'm joined by
00:01:21
my co-host Americus Reed, the Whitney M.
00:01:23
Young Jr. Professor of Marketing and the
00:01:26
brand identity theorists. And today we
00:01:29
are so happy because we have one of our
00:01:32
own, a very successful Wharton alum
00:01:35
coming back on the show to talk to us
00:01:38
about a very interesting product that he
00:01:40
developed. We have Dan Katali, um,
00:01:44
founder and CEO of Groove. And Groove is
00:01:47
a footwear technology company that
00:01:49
develops customized services designed to
00:01:52
determine the ideal support for your
00:01:55
body and something you can insert in any
00:01:57
shoe. Yes. And it gives you comfort,
00:02:00
performance, and fit. What a terrific
00:02:02
idea. Dan, welcome to our show.
00:02:05
>> Hi, Dan. Thank you so much for having me
00:02:07
on, guys. Uh and before we get started,
00:02:10
ladies and gentlemen, I would like to
00:02:11
make a quick uh uh announcement here.
00:02:14
And that is, let me tell you the story,
00:02:15
Barbara. Many, many years ago, Dan, my
00:02:18
podiatrist, I remember I remember him
00:02:21
basically putting my foot in plaster and
00:02:24
doing something and then waiting four
00:02:26
months to get this thing that showed up.
00:02:28
It was $500 plus. And I was like,
00:02:31
there's got to be a better way. This was
00:02:33
a This was over a decade ago, Barbara.
00:02:35
And here we are today with this
00:02:37
incredible product which I will show
00:02:39
you. Uh this is called Groove. Dan's
00:02:42
going to talk about it. Let me tell you
00:02:44
something, Barbara. You You are the
00:02:45
guru, Barbara, of packaging. So look at
00:02:47
this packaging.
00:02:48
>> The you look that my name, ladies and
00:02:52
gentlemen, my name is on this. So that's
00:02:54
pretty cool. And then the other thing,
00:02:55
Barbara, look at this. This is really
00:02:57
cool. It opens up
00:02:59
>> in this. And then there's a mirror
00:03:01
that's there that says made especially
00:03:04
for you. Ah, I love it. Barbara, what do
00:03:08
you think? Start us off.
00:03:09
>> Excellent. Excellent. Excellent.
00:03:11
Excellent. Did you pretest it? Did you
00:03:13
test it or did you just go with your
00:03:14
gut?
00:03:15
>> Something in the middle of that. You
00:03:17
know, I'm you you got to make a move to
00:03:20
have something to test, I found. But as
00:03:22
much as possible, I ask everyone around
00:03:25
me what they think about my stuff
00:03:26
because a lot of it sucks. And it's
00:03:28
important for me to know which one of it
00:03:30
is that.
00:03:30
>> So what's your metric? It's like wow. If
00:03:32
somebody says a wow, then I think a lot
00:03:35
of founders, you know, like to uh
00:03:38
mythologize themselves, put themselves
00:03:40
on a pedestal and and and take an
00:03:42
approach that suggests that they're like
00:03:44
built different. Uh I I'll never suggest
00:03:46
that. I'll suggest I'm a weird dude. And
00:03:49
I think for me, my ability to commit
00:03:52
myself to things that I'm not personally
00:03:54
interested in as like a user myself is
00:03:57
just limited. And so for me, I also uh
00:04:01
you know build a lot out through the
00:04:03
lens of myself as a consumer. And you
00:04:07
know that's as someone who went to
00:04:09
Wharton is kind of like fauxa number one
00:04:12
and number two.
00:04:13
>> I picked that in my first class. It's
00:04:15
called confirmation bias.
00:04:17
>> Yeah. And I think for me, you know, the
00:04:20
real job is for me to take a hard look
00:04:24
at what it is I'm building for myself
00:04:27
and try to really separate, you know,
00:04:30
what is it about this that actually
00:04:32
applies to everyone and what is it
00:04:34
that's just Dan. So this is the Groove
00:04:36
logo. Um, this was something that was
00:04:40
developed on three principles, right?
00:04:43
Very much influenced by Nike. Well, this
00:04:45
one was different than Nike, but I
00:04:46
wanted it to be one syllable and a word
00:04:48
that people already knew. Um, which I
00:04:51
know is also counter to everything I was
00:04:53
taught at Wharton. Um,
00:04:57
but I wanted it to be something that
00:04:59
they could quickly take to. I wanted it
00:05:00
to be something that had both a, you
00:05:04
know, subtle connotation to the foot,
00:05:05
but not a direct one. I didn't want to
00:05:07
feel footy, but the groove of the foot
00:05:09
and also have its own energy to it. And
00:05:11
then I wanted it to be, and this was
00:05:13
directly from Nike, something that could
00:05:16
both stand alone as an icon or utilize
00:05:19
the full kind of word mark. And so we
00:05:22
developed the infinity soul here. And
00:05:24
the infinity soul represents uh you'll
00:05:27
see it looks like a soul. It looks like
00:05:28
an infinity, but most importantly, it
00:05:31
represents uh the full circuit
00:05:33
connection created when you've got a
00:05:35
personalized interface between you and
00:05:37
the ground. And more importantly, the
00:05:39
infinity soul represents the number of
00:05:42
different shapes and sizes that we make
00:05:44
our products in.
00:05:45
>> Ah
00:05:48
fingerprint
00:05:49
>> in the shape of the infinity soul. And
00:05:51
I'll do one last thing. Uh cuz I know
00:05:54
Americus, we mentioned this.
00:05:55
>> Yes.
00:05:56
>> In my ear right now.
00:05:57
>> Watch this. Barbara
00:06:00
>> is an earring in the shape of the
00:06:03
infinity soul made by Fiama. a class of
00:06:08
mine.
00:06:09
>> I know her. Yeah, we have company
00:06:11
>> and I wear it extremely proudly.
00:06:13
>> Oh, that's very cool.
00:06:14
>> Six degrees of separation. Barbara Famea
00:06:16
listeners, FTA we interviewed on July of
00:06:20
25. You can check that out on the
00:06:22
podcast. Another wart. I I love the way
00:06:24
the universe brings great things
00:06:25
together.
00:06:26
>> Let's look let's look at the motivation
00:06:28
for the product. And I'm I'm pretty sure
00:06:29
it's what America said because I've been
00:06:31
through that same situation, too. I
00:06:33
didn't go to you. I have to say you're
00:06:34
going to have to convince me to do that.
00:06:36
But you go, you have something wrong
00:06:37
with your foot. You go to a podiatrist
00:06:40
or somebody you trust and they tell you
00:06:42
to get these things for your shoes
00:06:44
because it's gonna help, right? And then
00:06:46
the first thing you can do is you can go
00:06:48
to CVS and buy stuff and the
00:06:50
customization is you cut it out in the
00:06:52
shape of your shoe. That's how
00:06:54
customized it is, right? So, how what
00:06:57
how did you know there was a need for
00:06:59
something better than what's sold at the
00:07:01
gra grocery store or, you know, at the
00:07:04
CVS? And how much competition is there
00:07:06
out there? And
00:07:07
>> yeah, growing up, my father sold
00:07:09
orthotics uh my whole life.
00:07:12
>> Oh my god, what what a background.
00:07:15
>> And but plot twist, I had no interest in
00:07:20
them whatsoever. He would always say,
00:07:21
you know, let me make you some
00:07:22
orthotics. And I said, "No." Right? My
00:07:24
posters on my wall were Dr. J, not Dr.
00:07:27
Scholes. It seemed like a medical
00:07:31
solution that I didn't want for problems
00:07:33
that I didn't want to have. Uh, and so I
00:07:36
had no interest in it. Um, I was a
00:07:38
division one athlete. I wrestled at
00:07:40
Brown and, uh, you know, as I said,
00:07:43
weird dude. Studied theoretical math and
00:07:45
poetry while there as well. Um,
00:07:48
>> that's a good combination.
00:07:49
>> That is.
00:07:49
>> Yeah. Yeah. Typical one. you know, the
00:07:51
wrestling, theoretical, math, poetry,
00:07:52
combo.
00:07:53
>> Exactly. They all go together.
00:07:54
>> Yeah, exactly.
00:07:56
>> Um, and I finally let him make me a
00:08:00
pair. Um, shout out, Dad. You're the
00:08:02
reason I'm doing all this. I hated it.
00:08:05
>> Uh, you know, I got it. It
00:08:08
>> I had to cut it, which felt like a
00:08:10
strange thing. Then it didn't even fit
00:08:12
in my shoe. I had to get some like big
00:08:14
bulky, you know, old man shoe to wear
00:08:17
them in. And then when I did, they
00:08:20
didn't even feel good. And I kind of
00:08:21
like trusted him. If you I wear them for
00:08:23
three, four weeks, maybe they'll start
00:08:25
to feel good. They never did. I never
00:08:27
took
00:08:28
>> Wow. How did he get that? That's like
00:08:30
That's pretty profound rejection from
00:08:32
his son.
00:08:36
>> I wasn't his easiest kid before that,
00:08:40
you know.
00:08:41
Oh, that's good. That's good.
00:08:43
>> Um, I, uh, I try to not, you know, I
00:08:48
think for me, as somebody who's been in
00:08:50
therapy since I was like 8 years old, I
00:08:52
I take a brutally honest approach with
00:08:56
myself that I try to soften for the
00:08:58
people around me who I love. Um, but I
00:09:01
didn't want to wear it. And, you know, I
00:09:03
wasn't going to tell them I was wearing
00:09:05
it. Um, and so that was it. You know, I
00:09:09
was validated. This has nothing to do
00:09:11
with me. It's for geriatric people,
00:09:13
diabetic people, you know, people with
00:09:15
issues that require medical treatments.
00:09:17
Not
00:09:18
>> wrestler poets certainly,
00:09:20
>> whatever that is. Um, and then when I
00:09:25
was in my mid20s, you know, I was no
00:09:27
longer in wrestling shape, feeling a
00:09:29
little worse on my feet, and eventually
00:09:32
I threw out my back. And in throwing out
00:09:34
my back, I became desperate to do
00:09:36
anything I could uh to get myself back
00:09:39
mobile. I went to an orthopedist, an
00:09:42
orthopedic surgeon, a physical
00:09:43
therapist, a massage therapist, a
00:09:45
chiropractor. Um my father,
00:09:47
>> did you buy acupuncture?
00:09:49
>> I didn't. Maybe I should have. Um my
00:09:53
father's a chiropractor and that's kind
00:09:54
of a wild wild west of a world. And so,
00:09:58
you know, his recommendation to me was
00:10:00
if you're going to try one, look up who
00:10:02
the pro sports teams in DCU. At the time
00:10:04
I was living in BC, I worked on a small
00:10:07
team that kind of jointly served as
00:10:10
effectively the chief of staff function
00:10:11
for the founder and CEO of Capital One,
00:10:13
Rich Fairbank.
00:10:15
>> Cool.
00:10:16
>> And so I looked up who the Washington
00:10:18
Nationals had uh on their team staff. I
00:10:21
went to see him and you know, at this
00:10:23
point I was open to anything. um not for
00:10:26
my feet, for my back. And he insisted on
00:10:28
making me a different pair of orthotics.
00:10:31
This one
00:10:33
was outstanding. And you you know, I did
00:10:36
a lot of things. My back got better. I
00:10:38
can't isolate a variable and tell you
00:10:40
which one, but I can tell you that all
00:10:42
of a sudden
00:10:43
>> I felt lighter on my feet in a way that
00:10:45
I never had and never realized I could
00:10:46
have had access to.
00:10:48
>> Interesting.
00:10:48
>> And all of a sudden, my brain starts
00:10:50
thinking, you know, what's going on? Uh,
00:10:53
but fast forward to this experience, I'd
00:10:55
kind of stopped skiing. I'd put on some
00:10:57
weight in my 20s and, you know, the
00:11:00
boots felt less comfortable. I was kind
00:11:02
of like, I don't know if this is for me
00:11:03
anymore. Uh, I think I invested in like
00:11:06
a $1,400 pair of Surefoot boots that are
00:11:10
fully custom, but the insert that's
00:11:13
custom is just something they heat up,
00:11:15
you step on, and then you walk out with
00:11:17
it. For me, someone who's flatfooted,
00:11:19
that just means it squishes it. It
00:11:21
leaves me with a flat platform and I get
00:11:22
nothing of what I need. Right? Groove is
00:11:24
all about determining that optimal rest
00:11:27
position so your foot doesn't have to
00:11:28
work unless it's putting in work
00:11:30
>> and so that you can rest and be in your
00:11:32
most protected, comfortable, and ready
00:11:35
to perform position at any moment.
00:11:37
>> Um,
00:11:38
>> and so all of a sudden, you know, I'm
00:11:41
wearing this product and I try it in a
00:11:44
pair of rental ski boots, like $30,
00:11:46
probably 20 years old, beat up, and it
00:11:48
feels 10 times as good as the Sheroots.
00:11:50
Now my mind's spinning because I'm
00:11:52
trying to think like
00:11:54
>> the delta between the first experience
00:11:56
and the second
00:11:59
>> my intimacy with this industry. You know
00:12:03
what's going on here? There's something
00:12:05
here that just changed my entire sort of
00:12:07
notion of how I can feel on my feet and
00:12:09
I'm trying to understand it. And as I'm
00:12:12
looking I notice something really really
00:12:16
interesting. Right? I I I was born in
00:12:18
92, which I think was that was the year
00:12:21
of the dream team, right?
00:12:22
>> Yes.
00:12:23
>> So, you know, it's always been like
00:12:26
Mike, like LeBron, basketball is
00:12:29
footwear. They're the vanguard of it.
00:12:32
What they do, everyone else does. And I
00:12:35
caught on to this, which is that
00:12:39
when LeBron James gives away his shoes
00:12:41
to his adoring fans, every single time
00:12:43
he takes out his custom inserts, he's
00:12:45
willing to shoes.
00:12:47
>> That's a very cool video.
00:12:49
>> But it's not just LeBron. Here's Jannis
00:12:50
Antento at a home.
00:12:53
>> Get these videos
00:12:54
>> on the internet. Anthony Davis, you'll
00:12:56
see Jason Tatum. You could find Novak
00:12:59
Djokovic doing it.
00:13:00
>> I love that. I love that.
00:13:01
>> That's quite a collection of videos you
00:13:03
have.
00:13:03
>> That's cool. That's very cool.
00:13:04
>> And it's just a small sampling. And and
00:13:06
what I realized in that moment was that
00:13:10
there was a disconnect between what the
00:13:13
footwear industry was selling to
00:13:14
consumers and what the footwear industry
00:13:17
was proposing is what its top athletes
00:13:20
should be using.
00:13:22
>> And for me, then the question became,
00:13:26
how do I sort of wrap my head around all
00:13:29
this? And to be clear, this is all kind
00:13:31
of coming together in the first quarter
00:13:35
or the first half of my first semester
00:13:36
in Sergey Netison.
00:13:38
>> Before we go into that, let me just ask
00:13:39
you something because I'm curious about
00:13:41
what America said and your father and
00:13:43
this wizard guy in in DC. So when you
00:13:47
did it with your father and the way
00:13:48
Americus did it, was the process of
00:13:50
measuring your foot the same that you
00:13:51
had to step into clay or something or
00:13:53
had the process changed?
00:13:55
>> Love that question. When my father made
00:13:57
a pair for me, he used something like
00:13:58
this,
00:14:00
>> which is hilarious. It's what you were
00:14:01
describing, right?
00:14:02
>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Memory foam, I
00:14:04
think, is what they call that, or
00:14:06
something like that.
00:14:07
>> Yeah. So, this is actually it has even
00:14:09
less elasticity than memory foam. This
00:14:10
is impression foam. So, a memory foam is
00:14:12
going to, and this gets into, you know,
00:14:14
the actual construction of the different
00:14:16
groove models. A memory foam is going to
00:14:18
have a very low elasticity. It'll very
00:14:20
slowly return to its position. As
00:14:23
opposed to like what we have some of our
00:14:25
basketball players wearing, which is
00:14:26
super bouncy, high elasticity. This has
00:14:28
no elasticity. You step into it, it
00:14:30
holds that shape.
00:14:31
>> Got it?
00:14:32
>> Here's the issue. Quick history lesson.
00:14:35
In the early 1970s, Mertinroot, kind of
00:14:37
the founding father of podiatric
00:14:39
biomechanics, started making orthotics.
00:14:41
And what he would do was he would put
00:14:43
your foot in a stirup into what's called
00:14:45
a subtailor neutral position. It's just
00:14:47
a neutral position. He would take a
00:14:48
plaster mold of your foot to see what
00:14:51
that rest position was. So he knew the
00:14:53
optimal position your anatomy wanted to
00:14:56
be in and then he would do an assessment
00:14:58
of the dynamic range of motion, what
00:15:00
happened when you put pressure on it and
00:15:02
determine how to keep you in that top
00:15:05
position. Now, this isn't a healthc care
00:15:09
podcast. I I know Wharton had some of
00:15:11
those,
00:15:13
but it turns out that long, personal,
00:15:18
really intimate care approaches aren't
00:15:21
super good for billables. And over time,
00:15:25
the industry moved from something that
00:15:26
took two hours to do per person to
00:15:29
something that took the amount of time
00:15:30
it took you to step on a thing. Now,
00:15:33
we've moved from these to like scanners.
00:15:36
>> But here's the thing. I'm flatfooted.
00:15:39
That doesn't mean I don't have arches in
00:15:40
my feet, right? I evolved arches to
00:15:43
propel myself over rocks and roots and
00:15:46
gravel. You know, we didn't evolve to
00:15:48
wear shoes. We wear them now and our
00:15:50
feet have adapted to them. For all the
00:15:51
best, I don't want inch thick calluses
00:15:53
on my feet to be able to walk around
00:15:55
barefoot. Um, but what that means is
00:15:59
ultimately when we put our foot in a
00:16:00
shoe, uh, we're kind of locking it in a
00:16:03
cage in one position and we're asking
00:16:04
those arches that evolved to be dynamic
00:16:07
to instead be weightbearing
00:16:09
infrastructure like the arches in the
00:16:11
coliseum and that's not what they're
00:16:12
made for. So when you stand over time
00:16:15
it's, you know, starting to collapse and
00:16:18
then all the small stabilizer muscles in
00:16:20
your foot get recruited and then they
00:16:21
fatigue real quickly and it creates this
00:16:23
downward vicious cycle of fatigue,
00:16:26
discomfort and eventually pain. So all
00:16:29
that is to say, I step on something like
00:16:32
this, my arches collapse into it. As I
00:16:35
said before, they get a compression.
00:16:38
>> Yeah. And then they see anybody else
00:16:42
with a size 11 foot that also has arches
00:16:45
that collapse and they're going to have
00:16:47
the same data.
00:16:48
>> Ah, interesting.
00:16:50
>> That's all they have to work with.
00:16:51
>> Interesting.
00:16:52
>> What we do is we capture 30,000 data
00:16:56
points in three different positions. One
00:16:58
in a non-weightbearing position like
00:17:00
Merin Root would do in the early 70s,
00:17:02
but we do it in seconds.
00:17:04
>> Yep.
00:17:04
>> Then we capture in a weight bearing.
00:17:06
>> You do it with your phone or something.
00:17:07
So, Barbara, can I just jump in and say
00:17:09
that I, you know, I have my grooves
00:17:12
because I did
00:17:13
>> I've done this, America, so you can tell
00:17:15
her.
00:17:15
>> I Barbara, it was amazing. First of all,
00:17:17
I had to borrow the iPhone from my
00:17:19
daughter, but nonetheless
00:17:20
>> Oh, yeah. I forgot we were a green guy.
00:17:22
>> I know. I ladies and gentlemen, I
00:17:24
apologize in advance. I
00:17:26
>> This is a no shame podcast.
00:17:28
>> No shame. Listen, the Androiders, we are
00:17:31
okay. This is a safe space. All right.
00:17:33
So,
00:17:33
>> the Androiders build our tech
00:17:35
infrastructure.
00:17:36
>> That's awesome. But it was it was cool,
00:17:38
Barbara, because I'm doing the thing and
00:17:39
I'm just what do you what Dan said? I
00:17:41
just did it very quickly and boom and
00:17:43
the next thing I know the box shows up
00:17:45
and I was just like, "Wow, this is
00:17:47
cool." So to your point, Barbara,
00:17:49
integrating that tech
00:17:50
>> pictures, you take all different
00:17:51
pictures from
00:17:54
>> So we were not even taking pictures. So
00:17:57
uh with the iPhone 10 or the iPhone X as
00:17:59
they called it, they released uh Face
00:18:01
ID, right? you could unlock your phone
00:18:04
um without having to touch the thing,
00:18:06
just looking at it. Most of us never
00:18:08
really took much time to wonder how that
00:18:10
worked. And for a long time, I didn't
00:18:12
either. Uh it turns out when you set up
00:18:14
your phone or or sorry, I'll take a step
00:18:17
back. They built into the phone the
00:18:19
Trueepth camera system up here. And what
00:18:21
the True Depth camera system has in
00:18:23
addition to cameras is what they call
00:18:26
the infrared dot blotter. It shoots out
00:18:27
over 30,000 infrared beams a second. And
00:18:30
then it has a sensor that can pick them
00:18:32
up. So it acts like radar but on a
00:18:34
smaller scale with more precision. And
00:18:36
so when you set up your phone and you do
00:18:38
that thing, if you have an iPhone where
00:18:40
it says set up your face ID, it's
00:18:43
storing a local model of your face that
00:18:45
it can run against every time you try to
00:18:48
log back in locally. Now what we've done
00:18:51
is hijack that hardware to be able to
00:18:53
use on feet. Now, this is a video
00:18:57
podcast, so I'm gonna assume nobody
00:19:01
needs to see my feet here.
00:19:04
>> That's probably a good assumption, Dan.
00:19:05
>> The way it will work is you actually put
00:19:07
the phone on the ground, you hold your
00:19:09
foot above it, it detects the f the
00:19:11
foot, it tells you if you're in the
00:19:12
wrong position, it instructs you to
00:19:14
reposition, and then it gets a high
00:19:16
precision 3D model. to show you how that
00:19:19
works quickly on my phone. What's super
00:19:21
interesting, we can't see infrared
00:19:23
beams, but you can unlock your phone. It
00:19:26
Barbara, do you have an iPhone?
00:19:28
>> Yes, of course.
00:19:31
>> She said that as a true Apple loyalist,
00:19:33
ladies and gentlemen,
00:19:34
>> you can unlock your iPhone in bed in
00:19:36
pitch black, right?
00:19:37
>> Yeah.
00:19:38
>> The way you're doing that is because
00:19:40
it's illuminating your face, you just
00:19:42
can't see it because we can't see
00:19:43
infrared beams.
00:19:44
>> Oh, yeah. In the middle of the night
00:19:45
when I open my phone and I have to do
00:19:47
something. So, yeah. Right. Exactly.
00:19:48
Supposed to do that, but I do do that,
00:19:50
>> of course.
00:19:51
>> That's that's a whole another podcast.
00:19:54
>> Um,
00:19:55
>> but uh so what's really interesting, and
00:19:58
I just discovered this doing video
00:20:00
calls, is that the uh camera on my
00:20:02
MacBook actually has a slightly larger
00:20:05
uh range of uh visible light that it can
00:20:08
pick up. And so, it actually sees the
00:20:10
infrared beams. So, do you see those
00:20:12
beams shooting out right there? that
00:20:15
purple.
00:20:16
>> Oh, yeah.
00:20:18
>> You can see it flickering.
00:20:20
>> Yeah.
00:20:21
>> So, anytime your phone's trying to
00:20:23
unlock, it's doing that. But we can't
00:20:25
see that with our eyes.
00:20:27
>> Got it.
00:20:27
>> But it enables us to pick up depth,
00:20:33
right? So, it sees my hand as opposed to
00:20:36
what's behind it.
00:20:38
>> Show you on my face so you don't have to
00:20:39
look at my feet. But remember, this
00:20:41
isn't made for faces. Apple made it for
00:20:43
faces, but our app's made for feet. But
00:20:45
just to show you.
00:20:46
>> Wow.
00:20:49
>> So, just like that, we get a high
00:20:51
precision scan in three dimensions.
00:20:55
>> We're talking millimeter level
00:20:57
precision.
00:20:57
>> Oh, wow. That's super cool. It looks
00:20:59
just like you.
00:21:00
>> Wow.
00:21:01
>> Just like me. And And so, we're not
00:21:03
taking photos and stitching them
00:21:04
together. We're actually capturing uh a
00:21:08
scan where every pixel isn't just in X
00:21:12
and Y, but it's in the Z dimension as
00:21:13
well to bring it back to some of the
00:21:15
theoretical math side of things.
00:21:17
>> And and can you patent it or can you
00:21:19
like is it proprietary or can people
00:21:21
copy?
00:21:22
>> Everything's built from scratch.
00:21:23
Everything's proprietary. Our patents
00:21:25
are pending because the US patent and
00:21:27
trademark office is about two and a half
00:21:29
years backlog right now and we applied
00:21:30
about two years ago.
00:21:32
>> Got it. So, one, you know, it's about
00:21:33
agility.
00:21:35
>> Agility. Yeah.
00:21:36
>> Two, it's about production. I think that
00:21:40
Nike is extraordinary at the old school
00:21:44
method of last base manufacturing of
00:21:46
footwear at scale.
00:21:47
>> Y
00:21:48
>> and
00:21:49
would really have to kind of undress
00:21:51
everything, you know, they know about
00:21:53
how to produce things. Um, and I say
00:21:56
this as like Nike is of of all the
00:21:58
companies I take cues from and try to
00:22:00
learn from how to build an awesome
00:22:02
thing, Nike is right up there. Um, but,
00:22:06
you know, they come from, you know,
00:22:08
they're they still, you know, make shoes
00:22:10
to a standardized last and and they're
00:22:14
>> okay. So, but could another more nimble
00:22:17
company copy you and do it? I mean, you
00:22:19
get these patents. I guess you're
00:22:20
protected then. Is it just that you have
00:22:23
a real head start and it's a complicated
00:22:24
business and so you'll be the big
00:22:26
companies won't be as nimble and the
00:22:28
small companies will take a long time to
00:22:30
catch up. is that kind of
00:22:31
>> and also to before you answer that Dan I
00:22:33
want to layer on top of Barbara's point
00:22:35
as well because I think this is a big
00:22:36
thing that I definitely want to make
00:22:37
sure you cover on this podcast and that
00:22:39
is Barbara layering on top of this the
00:22:42
Groove brand right so one of the
00:22:44
important things here is like yes
00:22:46
perhaps someone can catch up and like do
00:22:48
copy the thing in terms of features part
00:22:51
of what Dan's secret sauce is is this
00:22:54
notion is this brand so so answer
00:22:57
Barbara's question Dan but answer it in
00:22:59
the context and brand identity theorist.
00:23:02
>> And she's always busting my chops, Dad.
00:23:04
Like, he's got to get identity into this
00:23:06
somehow. But talk to answer answer
00:23:08
Barbara's question, though, because I
00:23:09
think
00:23:10
>> Yeah. How Yeah, that's it. It's the
00:23:11
marketing, it's the technology, it's the
00:23:13
speed, it's the talent.
00:23:15
>> Yes. And and tell us to Barbara's point,
00:23:17
tell us about the Groove brand, the
00:23:19
ethos, what what does it mean? How did
00:23:21
you come up with it? All that stuff for
00:23:22
protection purposes.
00:23:24
>> Yeah. No, that's a great point. and and
00:23:25
there are a lot of other things on the
00:23:28
technical side that I didn't yet get
00:23:30
into. So much of what we've built is not
00:23:32
just patent pending, but like
00:23:33
proprietary and trade secrets and would
00:23:35
be hard to figure out. We've got some of
00:23:38
the world's best computer vision
00:23:39
engineers working for us. And don't get
00:23:41
me wrong, Nike could pay him more, but
00:23:44
one of the things that we've been able
00:23:46
to do is really build a team around a
00:23:48
brand, and that even includes our
00:23:50
manufacturing partners. some of our
00:23:52
relationships uh you know are are are
00:23:56
are really really tight throughout the
00:23:58
world and you know I'm a fifth
00:24:00
generation old school New Yorker. I'm a
00:24:02
relationship guy and we've got all of
00:24:03
our contracts tight. Um but in terms of
00:24:07
getting this produced like everything
00:24:08
would have to be recreated from scratch
00:24:10
at this point. It would cost Nike way
00:24:13
more money than it would cost to buy us,
00:24:15
but we're not looking to be sold because
00:24:17
we've got such a brand emerging on top
00:24:19
of this as Americus was saying, right?
00:24:21
Um, one of the faces of our brand has
00:24:24
become Von Miller, Super Bowl 50 MVP.
00:24:26
That's actually to tell you a real cool
00:24:30
story about how that came together. Um,
00:24:32
I met somebody who suggested that Groove
00:24:35
could be an interesting thing uh to
00:24:38
bring to the uh NFL sack summit in Las
00:24:41
Vegas where a bunch of the defensive
00:24:43
ends and pass rushers get together to,
00:24:46
you know, drop the animosity of being on
00:24:49
different teams, come together as
00:24:51
similar positions and learn from each
00:24:53
other. And when I was there, you know, I
00:24:56
offered to make some people some free
00:24:57
pairs. Uh, I met Von Miller for about 60
00:25:00
seconds. 59 of them were used to scan
00:25:03
his feet. The other one second was used
00:25:05
to tell him, "Hey man, if you try these,
00:25:08
like I'm going to send you them. I know
00:25:09
a lot of people send you stuff. If you
00:25:11
try these, you're going to like them.
00:25:13
Like, trust me, it's worth trying." And
00:25:16
I left, you know, we made the pairs.
00:25:19
I've increasingly as I, you know, work
00:25:21
harder and harder and have more and more
00:25:23
stuff going on around me, I've actually
00:25:24
found myself splitting time in Costa
00:25:26
Rica to be able to, you know, balance
00:25:29
out appropriately. And I found myself
00:25:31
waking up one morning about 3 weeks
00:25:35
later in Costa Rica. Probably had 150
00:25:37
notifications on my phone, which was not
00:25:40
normal for me at that time. Uh, but I
00:25:42
clicked and I saw this.
00:25:45
>> You know what I'm reckoning, man?
00:25:48
Groovy.
00:25:50
>> Nice.
00:25:51
>> Me right, man. These mugs are so
00:25:53
comfortable. He told me they was going
00:25:54
to be comfortable and I just turned my
00:25:56
favorite shoe
00:25:58
>> into my favorite favorite shoe.
00:26:00
>> They feel great.
00:26:01
>> Nice. That's awesome.
00:26:03
>> Wow.
00:26:04
>> Word of mouth marketing advocate as
00:26:07
opposed to quote influencer. Very
00:26:09
different thing.
00:26:10
>> Wow. Ex. You know what? We are out of
00:26:12
time now, but that is some interesting
00:26:15
origin story. And we didn't even get to
00:26:18
the Wharton class that helped you
00:26:19
produce this,
00:26:21
but but I think we should end. And then
00:26:24
we can have people look you up on on the
00:26:27
web.
00:26:27
>> Uh all we do is you go to groove.me g
00:26:30
ov.me.
00:26:32
You pick the model you want. Uh we've
00:26:34
got a bunch of different models and uh
00:26:36
the ones we have up right now are the
00:26:39
everyday which is going to be your
00:26:41
comfiest pair uh with a memory foam on
00:26:44
top with the perfect contour for
00:26:45
yourself. The response model which is
00:26:48
going to be our most explosive model
00:26:52
uh which you can put into any shoe that
00:26:54
doesn't even have a removable insert
00:26:55
from a
00:26:56
>> I got to do this. You know
00:26:59
I do have a podiatrist. I did buy Dr.
00:27:02
Scholes. I cut them out. They fit my
00:27:03
shoes. Americus and Nina, who works for
00:27:06
us at Baker Retailing Center, they are
00:27:09
such advocates of you. They've been
00:27:10
yelling at me forever. And I think I'm
00:27:13
convinced. These are quite some stories.
00:27:15
It sounds like a great product. Thank
00:27:17
you.
00:27:18
>> Is one of my favorite people in the
00:27:19
world. And just lastly,
00:27:21
>> if you want them, they're not out yet
00:27:23
publicly, but if you want them, uh,
00:27:25
we've also got a ski boot model. and our
00:27:28
hockey skate model, the Blade, is now
00:27:30
being used by almost half the New York
00:27:32
Islanders.
00:27:33
>> Excellent. Beautiful.
00:27:34
>> That is so great.
00:27:35
>> Congratulations. Thank you guys so much
00:27:38
for having me on.
00:27:39
>> And that is all we have time for. Thank
00:27:42
you all for joining us today. We'd like
00:27:44
to thank our producers, Erin TR and and
00:27:47
Marissa Rena and Dion Simpkins. Thank
00:27:50
you all for listening today. We'll be
00:27:52
back next week. Till then, this has been
00:27:54
Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
00:27:56
Network. I'm Barbara Khan here with
00:27:59
America's Reed.
